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all 66 comments

[–]dontusetorbay 0 points1 point  (9 children)

Yeah, also I just found out who this guy is. This site needs to be removed from the sidebar ASAP.

[–]dontusetorbay 0 points1 point  (6 children)

Not going to dox him, but I have his street address as well, I'm going to send the mods proof so we can get the site off the sidebar

Edit: side -> site

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (3 children)

Yes?

Also, yes thank you. Please don't post personal info here.

[–]dontusetorbay 0 points1 point  (2 children)

proof sent

[–]WishIWasOnACatamaran 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Did not receive it in modmail

[–]dontusetorbay 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Sent it to just mr_oblomov, brain wasn't working there for a moment - it's now sent via modmail

[–]-TorBay- 0 points1 point  (1 child)

thanky you for not doxing. maybe you want to sent me proof about your claims as well?`

[–]dontusetorbay 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Done

[–]vwermisso 1 point2 points  (0 children)

They didn't even reply.

looooooooool

[–]-TorBay- 0 points1 point  (4 children)

Nice that you find our first honeypot ;-) Rewriting php error messages is easy, so don't be fooled.

[–]-TorBay- -1 points0 points  (1 child)

Yes you are reading this wrong ;) We cannot claim that the site will be error free, there is no such thing as flawless code in a complex environment. However we did spend some time to mislead the script kiddies...

[–]StuffyKnows2Much 1 point2 points  (0 children)

We're supposed to just take your word for that?

[–]LongLiveThe_King[M] 1 point2 points  (3 children)

We will add it to the sidebar, most likely later tonight. I'd do it now, but I'm on mobile.

This doesn't mean that we are supporting this market or even that we trust it, just that we are aware of its existence. Be smart, stay safe.

[–]Astrid_IS_Fashion[M] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Added.

[–]dontusetorbay 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Remove it from the sidebar, the site is unbelievably insecure and I'm 99% sure the owner is about 17 years old.

[–]-TorBay- 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thank you

[–]Astrid_IS_Fashion 2 points3 points  (1 child)

it looks just like deepbay, just sayin'

[–]thebudbrokers 0 points1 point  (0 children)

and deep bay robbed every vendor .

[–]baggins 1 point2 points  (8 children)

How do you track these "TorBay bucks" and how do you manage to exchange them outside your marketplace? How do you prevent funds being stolen by the market staff?

[–]-TorBay- 0 points1 point  (1 child)

The attacker cannot go after BTC since this system that handles the wallets is not reachable from the outside. Since cashouts are totally handled on a manual basis, the hacker would need direct physical access to a console of the system processing withdrawals. Besides that, only a small part of the money is acutally kept in BTC (to avoid to much hedging risk) so most a hacker could acquire is the amout of BTC that are available for that current hour/day (compare this to a bank with a time lock for their safe, you can only rob what is currently in the cash register which is only a small fraction). Not to say that it is impossible, since there are no foolproof systems, but made highly unattractive compared to the markets where you are just after the online wallets

[–]ANAL_SAND_TAX 4 points5 points  (3 children)

Do you accept DOGEcoin ?

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (1 child)

They are trying to be seen as a legitimate business here. Consequently they are starting off only accepting BBQCoin.

[–]sucklyfe[🍰] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

wow much legitimate

[–]commanderPickles -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Lol

[–]commanderPickles 2 points3 points  (3 children)

So your saying that if you don't believe the vendor has high enough positive feedback he won't be able to cash out? It seems like you want to maintain somekind of God control status over the vendors I'm not sure I'd feel comfortable selling on your site knowing you can pretty much do whatever you want with my money.

[–]-TorBay- 3 points4 points  (1 child)

The basic principle is here similar to an escrow system that you know from other markets, with the advantage, that no fiat money gets lost if one of the market partners misbehave. if the seller starts scamming his feedback will drop and he will not be able to run away with the money. if the buyer tries to scam several times the same happens. There is no god control status. compare it to a limit on your credit card. the better your credit (feedback) the higher the limit you can withdraw at a single time.

[–]StuffyKnows2Much 0 points1 point  (0 children)

what about feedback hijacking? how do you stop 2-3 members who know each other from ordering small amounts and threatening to all leave successive negative reviews until a vendor transfers money to them from another site/wallet or just sends them drugs?

This whole concept seems like a massive network of blackmail. Owner blackmails vendors because he has total control of who takes out money. Users blackmail vendors by leaving excessively powerful bad reviews (which, ironically, have no need to be reviewed because we assume all end-user druggies are 100% honest).

I've been using darknet markets for a long time, and I am staying the ever-living fuck away from this market.

[–]thebudbrokers 0 points1 point  (0 children)

that's the same scam as deepbay and the site looks exact bsame different color only

[–]commanderPickles 0 points1 point  (3 children)

Scam?

[–]-TorBay- -4 points-3 points  (0 children)

no scam

[–]LongLiveThe_King -1 points0 points  (1 child)

Maybe, if it is it won't be on the same scale as SMP. Because once their market goes down, the currency becomes worthless. They would have to act very fast to scam everyone and then sell it all off anonymously before anyone notices, the plausibility of that can be argued both ways.

Small scams are certainly possible but eventually word would spread and people would lose faith in the market.

But I'm worried about (donning my tinfoil hat) the possibility of a honeypot. Maybe this new currency can be used to track people or something like that. I'm not sure and I hope someone proves me wrong, its just a thought.

[–]-TorBay- 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Since the currency never leaves the site, they cannot be used for tracking people, since there is no direct connection between e.g. the BTC address you send your money to and the account that gets credited. When you withdraw or trade with money it will come back either via other BTC addresses (tumbling) or even via other ways of payments (maybe someday sellers offer to trade the currency against Western Union, Paypal, other crypto currencies, cash in mail or even bank transfers ;-) - in this case one needs to be carful).

[–]LongLiveThe_King 0 points1 point  (6 children)

Can you expand on this new currency? How do you get it?

Who controls it?

What is the conversion rate?

Also, I'm not sure that a new currency will discourage hackers. Simply by using it on your market and allowing it to be converted into BTC or fiat you are giving it a value and hackers will be attracted to that. I can see it protecting buyers from you but that's about it.

[–]-TorBay- -2 points-1 points  (5 children)

How do you get it: you can exchange either against BTC (via a wallet associated to your account but not connected to the market in any way) or later, when there is enough volume in the market, sellers will sell this currency back to buyers as a way to cash out their earnings.

Who controls it: It is controlled solely by the staff of the market

Conversion rate is bound to USD, meaning 1 TBC (name of this currency) is always 1 USD

Since conversion into all other currencies is controlled manually in each step (no automated system allows you to convert the currency to fiat), hackers have no way to cash out quickly.

[–]LongLiveThe_King 1 point2 points  (4 children)

Who controls the "special address"? Whats to stop them from taking my BTC and running?

[–]-TorBay- -2 points-1 points  (3 children)

as said in another comment, there is no guarantee that someone is trying to run away with your BTC on the deepweb. The addresses are controlled by the staff of the site. Building trust is a long term investment, so only time can prove the legitimacy.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

So this is akin to buying tokens at an arcade.

[–]LongLiveThe_King 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hmm, alright. I'll definitely be waiting for the brave among us to give it the okay.

[–]StuffyKnows2Much 0 points1 point  (0 children)

are you serious? you come into a community of people who LESS THAN ONE MONTH AGO were shorted out of around 90 million dollars by a market they trusted implicitly, and tell us that "building trust is a long term investment"?

Jesus Christ, brother. I hate to keep jumping on your comments because for all I know you may be trying honestly to help the community. But you're fucking delusional if you think "trust" is what makes the darknet drug scene go around anymore.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

I want to offer replicas of handbags , perfume , watches , etc.(rather because chinese replicas are so damn expensive on the darknet). But since im not going to be paid in bitcoins for my products , how do i cash out ? This concept of yours doesnt seem that good explained here.

[–]-TorBay- -1 points0 points  (0 children)

You can cash out any time either to bitcoins directly via the site (for the current exchange rate BTC/USD) or resell your internal currency to buyers (e.g. to cash out by other means like cash in mail, moneypaks, gold bars, whatever). Just think about the internal currency like one from another country, you can exchange it everywhere someone takes it

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (3 children)

So basically this is akin to buying tokens at an arcade that are useless for anything but playing at the arcade.

[–]-TorBay- -1 points0 points  (2 children)

No. A better comparison would be casino chips. You buy them, do your things at the tables (playing aka trading) and exchange them back when you leave the casino. They are always backed up by real money, but the chips themselves are worthless outside the casino.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

How will the exchange rates work out?

[–]-TorBay- 0 points1 point  (0 children)

1 TBC (currency of the site) is fixed to 1 USD

[–]dwmthrowaway 0 points1 point  (5 children)

I think i understand, the onsite currency is a sort of "Bitcoin fluctuation protection so that if you sell something valued at 1btc then bitcoin value halves (lets say btc was 1000usd, the buyer would have bought 1btc at 1000usd, converted it to 1000TBC and buy it, then bitcoin value halves the next day, on a regular market that'd mean a loss, on here it would mean you still have 1000TBC that are still valued at 1000usd.

[–]ownager 0 points1 point  (3 children)

So who exactly is bearing the hedge risk? I don't get it. Are the owners of the website guaranteeing that 1 USD = 1 TBC? That is akin to saying that if 1000 BTC was in escrow and suddenly the value of BTC halved, then the owners of the market will pay from their own pockets to cover the loss.

The owners of the market should really explain the concept more clearly.

I do like the auctioning feature though.

[–]-TorBay- -1 points0 points  (2 children)

The owners guarantee that 1 USD is always 1 TBC, this is held up and hedged by the site owners. Let's make an example (all exchange rates are made up, to make it easier to follow without using a calculator):

There is a product on the market costing 50 TBC.(meaning 50 USD)

Buyer wants to buy product and exchanges his 50 USD somewhere to say 0.5 BTC, and directly exchanges his 0.5 BTC to 50 TBC. (assuming that the exchange rate BTC/USD did not change in the meantime)

Buyer buys the product for 50 TBC and sends TBC to seller.

Seller has now 50 TBC in the account and cash it out any time for fiat or cryptocurrency valued 50 USD (since 1 TBC is always 1 USD).

A) Assuming that the exchange rate BTC/USD has changed in the meantime, so seller only gets 0.4 BTC for his 50 TBC. He directly exchanges this 0.4 BTC to 50 USD at a place of his choice and has cashed out his 50 bucks. In his case the difference of 0.1 BTC between the deposit of the buyer and the cash out of the seller remains with the site owners.

B) Assuming that the exchange rate BTC/USD has changed in the meantime, so seller gets 0.6 BTC (instead of 0.5) for his 50 TBC. He directly exchanges this 0.6 BTC to 50 USD at a place of his choice and has cashed out his 50 bucks. In his case the difference of 0.1 BTC between the deposit of the buyer and the cash out of the seller is covered by the site owners pool.

C) The seller does not cash out via the site owners but resells this TBC to another buyer on the market place. In this case he decides himself, for what rate and by which payment system he wants to exchange. E.g. seller sells his 50 TBC for 45 USD cash in the mail, so some buyer sends the 45 USD cash in the mail and receives the 50 TBC.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

I don't understand how you can maintain that peg of 1 TBC to 1 USD. Maybe I'm missing something but it seems like if the owner is accepting BTC for TBC but TBC is pegged to USD then the hedger is assuming a great deal of risk by guaranteeing a currency peg of 1 TBC to 1 USD, regardless of what the BTC price is.

[–]-TorBay- 0 points1 point  (0 children)

We can maintain this by only storing a very small amount in BTC actually, so most of this is held in fiat currency (USD, EUR, RUR, GPB,...) so the only risk is the fluctuation between the rates of the fiat currency. Withdraw orders are converted to BTC "on demand", so we only cash in fiat to BTC when something is actually withdrawn by the customer.

[–]-TorBay- 0 points1 point  (0 children)

yes, you got it, this is also a positive side effect and prevents buyers and sellers alike to make disputes just for hedging the bitcoin value.

[–]CoveredInMud 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Next is Monopoly money. Trade BTC for fiat? Lol, not.

[–]thebudbrokers 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Bullshit ,it looks just like deepbay and they are known scam ripped me and our customers off 40 days ago

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