[Vendor Review] TripWithScience's "liquid psilocybin" now chemically TESTED! Results inside, but need additional interpretation

TL;DR: Skip to "Results and Observations"

So I purchased, received, and chemically tested the famous "Liquid Psilocybin" from vendor TripWithScience. You can find the whole process painstakingly detailed below1. The results need some interpretation and I need your help and experience to make the call.


Supplies:

Supply Purpose Details
Ehrlich Reagent Testing Chemical "Yes/No" test for indoles, of which psiloc(yb)in is one. Expected result for presence of indoles is a change from clearish to basically any shade of purple in 5 to 30 seconds. (In one rare case, there is a chemical that takes 24 hours to produce a result, which is a distinct robin's egg blue; however, I found no other documentation wherein psychedelic indoles required a reaction time of greater than 3 minutes.)
Marquis Reagent Testing Chemical Identification test for a wide range of substances. I chose Marquis as there are unconfirmed by gas chromatography reported differences in reaction results between psilocybin, psilocin, and 4-AcO-DMT. Frequent critics of this product often claim that the liquid is in fact 4-AcO-DMT suspended in ethanol, rather than the advertised psiloc(yb)in. In anticipation of a positive (purple) result from the Ehrlich test, I also ordered the Marquis test to try and make that determination.
White Ceramic Dish Testing Medium Ceramic is reusable and withstands the particular chemicals in the reagents used in these tests; moreover, it provides an open, unobstructed view of the samples for capturing on film
Spiral-Bound Notebook Paper Drying Medium and Control Sample Only the wide top margin was used in order to avoid bringing any of the blue or red line inks into the reaction. I tested many, many types of paper for reactions with the reagents before settling on this one. Due to the plant material in paper, it's pretty much always going to have a small reaction with the Marquis reagent. This particular paper had the smallest reaction (a light-to-medium yellow) out of all I had access to.
TripWithScience's "Liquid Psilocybin" Supposedly Active Substance for Testing I received six vials from my purchase. In the test you see below, only the contents of one of those vials is tested.2
Melatonin, 3mg Control Sample Melatonin, an over-the-counter supplement used as a sleep-aid, is an indole and naturally reacts strong purple with Ehrlich's reagent. Crushed melatonin is shown in the Ehrlich test video to show the reagent is active and reacting as expected.3
Aspirin, 50mg Control Sample Aspirin is one of the many over-the-counter substances that has an easily recognizable reaction with Marquis reagent. Crushed aspirin is shown in the Marquis test video to show the reagent is active and reacting as expected.3

Method:

  1. Two similar strips of paper were placed in a clean environment. The product was liberally applied to the strips of paper, and spread around with a clean spoon.4 Once product fully covered each strip, they were left in a cool, dark place until dry (appx. 15 minutes). You can see my method of preparing the substance for testing here: Animated GIF, duration: appx. 35 seconds5

  2. Two separate ceramic dishes were prepared in the same manner, one for each reagent test.

    a. Control substance in top left hand corner

    b. Smaller control strip of paper to the right of the control substance

    c. Larger presumed-active product sample below the control strip of paper

    d. Smartphone on stopwatch mode

  3. In each test, the reagent in question is placed on the items to be tested in the following order:

    a. Control substance

    b. Control strip of paper

    c. Presumed-active product sample

  4. Smartphone stopwatch function is activated and results are observed on camera for 3 to 5 minutes; constant observation continued after filming ceased for an additional half hour; observation then shifted to every five minutes for an additional half hour, then every hour for an additional six hours.6

You can see me complete the Ehrlich Test here: Animated GIF, duration: appx. 60 seconds

You can see me complete the Marquis Test here: Animated GIF, duration: appx. 68 seconds


Reactions:

Ehrlich Reagent There was initially NO reaction with the Ehrlich reagent, not even a gradual change, until around the 16-minute mark, in which it produced a very reddish purple. After sitting for quite a few hours, it permanently settled into a blueish purple.

You can see the progression, including all above hues, here: PNG Image

Marquis Reagent The Marquis reagent also had no quick initial reaction like I was expecting, but it had a quicker pick-up time, turning tan-ish at 30 seconds, red-brown at 2 minutes, and a dark orange/dark reddish brown at 3 minutes. This final color persisted until around 12 minutes, at which time the paper fibres themselves began to break down completely, giving us an icky boiled-chicken-blood kind of visualization.7 At the 60-minute mark, we were left with the very impressive sight of no more paper where there had once been paper, now just a horrible dark-brown mess of liquid plant material.

You can see the Marquis color progression here: PNG Image

You can also see the 12-minute mark here: PNG Image, "Boiled Chicken Blood" and the 60-minute mark here: PNG image


Results and Observations:

Personally, I was not fully convinced the product I received was "liquid psyloc(yb)in," therefore did not ingest the product. However, I am more confused with the results than I am certain the product was falsely advertised.

  1. The Ehrlich reagent did eventually turn purple, with heavy emphasis on "eventually". It took 16 minutes to get even a small response, and 5 hours to get a definitive purple. That seems to indicate there is some sort of indole having a very, very slow reaction with the reagent. Please, correct me if I am wrong, but I had been under the impression that any of the three target substances (psilocybin, psilocin, or 4-AcO-DMT) would have had a much more immediate reaction.

  2. The Marquis reagent did have a reaction, albeit also a slower-than-expected one. According to this source8,

    a. 4-AcO-DMT is not a candidate, as it would have required grey-green with a precipitate forming eventually. Even after many hours, a precipitate did not form, and I would not consider any of the colors to have been any shade of green

    b. Psilocin is not a candidate, as it would have required a light-green that turns to olive green reaction, which it most certainly was not

    c. Psilocybin is a possible but maybe unlikely candidate. "Brown" would be the expected reaction according to the above colorimetrics; moreover, there is no mention of color x that turns to color y, and we definitely showed a gradient that leaned more toward the reddish side than brownish side.

    d. Just looking at my reaction's colors side-by-side and comparing them to the Bunk Police's extensive list9 of reported reactions, the only thing I can really come up with is something in the 2C-T family, with my closest guess being 2C-T-7? Chemically and in physical/psychedelic effects, it's very similar to psiloc(yb)in and its analogs, so if this were the active ingredient in the product, that would explain reviews that seem to indicate a shroom trip? it's quite clear that I'm not experienced in this enough to even speculate, thus my providing the raw data and humbly asking for assistance.

I'm really at a loss for identifying a most-likely candidate - maybe you can read the results better?


Personal Note: This particular product has been up for debate (on Reddit, at least) for as long as it's been around, and I figured since I wanted to try it out anyway, I would document the process. Due to the low amount of data on testing this particular substance, especially in liquid format, there was some serious trial-and-error to find the best testing medium, drying medium, reaction times, etc. The results you are seeing are the product of trial-and-error, two days' wasted samples, and multiple bottles of product/reagent. Please let me know if you take issue with any of the data or have sources to back up or refute my information. Be gentle with me and with each other! I'm an impartial observer just trying to do science.


Footnotes:

1 As for vendor quality, I agree with all other reviews that Trip was ASTOUNDING. Fast shipping, friendly communication, absolutely astounding stealth. As for product quality, I cannot vouch for the tripping experience, as I personally did not feel I could definitively know what I was ingesting and DO NOT ingest any substance that I cannot definitively identify. If someone can offer a convincing arguement (e.g. "No, the normal Ehrlich reaction for psilocin is always multiple hours, here's some data showing that"), I will happily take the vials and give a trip report.

2 In quite a few of my initial tests, I had separate active samples from all six of the vials for both reagents (a total of 12 samples per test circuit). After many failures to receive results that I was able to record for reporting purposes (hey, if I just say I saw it turn brown, no one would believe me), I gave up on the idea of testing each of the vials and instead used a very liberal amount of a single vial

3 Much care was taken to ensure the crushed control substances did not contaminate the substance for testing (product)

4 Usage of such a large amount of product on such a large drying medium was deemed necessary after previous tests showed that the slight reaction Marquis reaction had with the plant material in the paper made it quite difficult to capture the very subtle shades of color in smaller-scale tests.

5 Due to the nature of what we're doing here, I understand that everyone is overly paranoid and prone to thinking up conspiracy theories one way or another. I can vouch for myself and say that I painstakingly did these tests over and over and over to get it just right for you guys to be able to see whatever results may be and draw your conclusions from there. That being said, I tried very hard to take special care to assuage some of your worries, so I did not cut frames out of my recordings when I edited them and made them into GIFS. Editing was purely necessary to add still-frames and commentary, and provide some much needed fast-forwarding. Otherwise, you're just sitting there watching paint reagent dry.

6 Observation of the Marquis test was ended at around two hours. The entirety of the paper drying medium had been consumed by the reagent, and no subsequent color changes had been made since appx. 30 minutes after applying the reagent.

7 Surely you cook chicken, right? Don't look at me like I'm crazy, you know exactly the color I'm talking about. You're making me look unprofessional, here.

8 Nexus Forum post on Colorimetrics: https://www.dmt-nexus.me/forum/default.aspx?g=posts&m=296264#post2962641

9 Bunk Police's Marquis Reagent Reaction Chart: http://www.bunkpolice.com/wp-content/uploads/Marquis-Infographic61.jpg. Note that the additional colorimetrics below the main circle are widely reported but not confirmed by gas chromatography.


Comments


[18 Points] andblowyourhousedown:

As a noob, I have nothing of value to add, but I would like to just say THANK YOU for what sure sounds like a hella lot of hard work for the good of the community.


[17 Points] Yourconscious69:

Cross post this in /r/Drugnerds they can probably help you analyze the results or identify the substance.


[8 Points] brrj:

TL;DR, please? I don't see a final point here


[8 Points] FriendlyDrugAddict:

I'm a noob with testing and need to sleep, but couldn't the fact that the paper its self has a yellowish reaction, make the Psilocybin brown reaction look reddish?


[5 Points] longview2:

Thank you OP this is awesome and although I can't contribute to the determination of the substance I greatly appreciate when people are willing to do drug testing in a scientific manner.


[3 Points] Yourconscious69:

Thanks OP. This is an awesome post that will definitely benefit the community. Hats off to you sir.


[2 Points] yeomanpharmer:

That was cool. I love stumbling into science in the wild. :)


[2 Points] mingerginger:

I've tested mushrooms containing a low concentration of psilocybin with Ehrlich's and they did not show a reaction, but I didn't wait 5 hours. A solution containing psilocybin would likely contain a similarly low concentration, so I wouldn't rush to call this stuff bunk just yet. I'll perform another test and let it go for longer and report back.

~10 minutes. Orange color is just from the mushroom and doesn't indicate any reaction:

http://www.anony.ws/i/2015/04/12/psilo.jpg

~2 hours

http://www.anony.ws/i/2015/04/12/psilo2.jpg

~3.5 hours

http://anony.ws/i/2015/04/12/psilo3.jpg

~8 hours

http://s24.postimg.org/h4hnbnkfp/psilo4.jpg

~27 hours

http://s15.postimg.org/y8bwch99n/psilo5.jpg

It looks to me as though a purple hue is slowly developing, though the orange color from the mushroom makes it a bit hard to be absolutely certain. I interpret this to mean that psilocybin in low concentration can take hours to produce a positive reaction to Ehrlich's reagent and OP's test does not rule out the presence of psilocybin in the "liquid psilocybin" solution.


[2 Points] AQWMtYGHLWCLHDKt:

I have seen several reports on forums, reddit, etc. from people who have taken either shrooms, 4-ACO-DMT or both, and felt that the effects of TWS product were similar. It is worthwhile to note that separate trip reports comparing shrooms with 4-ACO-DMT often find the two to be indistinguishable, which is expected given their chemical composition.

It may be further useful to note that Trip's product is known to be an alcohol-based tincture of at least ~something~, and I would presume that the alcohol in the liquid would affect reagents, but I don't know too much about all that, and will let others more knowledgeable provide comment.

I can say that I have had TWS product, did a 1-full vial trip taking 1/2 vial 30 minutes apart on an empty stomach. The only other tryptamine I have had is 5-MEO-MIPT, and the only other phenethylamines I have had are 2C-B and MDMA. I only mention these due to your 2C-T-7 supposition. I have NOT had regular shrooms and so cannot draw a comparison here.

As for TWS product, I can tell you a few things from my experience that make me believe that this is at least a tryptamine, and not 2C-T-7 or another phenethylamine-class substance. For one, I noticed shortly after come-up that I was yawning a lot and getting very watery eyes, and when I looked this up noted that this is a well-known side-effect of Psilocybin.

I will also note that the tactile enhancement that I experienced felt a lot closer to 5-MEO-MIPT (Moxy) than it did to 2CB or MDMA. FWIW, I am very well-versed in this particular aspect of these substances since the only time I take these is for sex. So, in each of the items I have tried, the tactile aspects have been explored, shall we say, very thoroughly to say the least.

I will also state that during come-up, I got a very sensual/racy kind of a vibe with regards to touch and horniness. Contrast this with my experience on phens which moreso just feel "stimmy" to me for the first hour, before finally settling down into something more manageable.

I also did experience the "leg tremors" on comeup with TWS product, which is usually more associated with tryps than phens. I have not had this side-effect with any other substance. These subsided after hitting the peak (thankfully).

I did experience some nausea with the TWS juice, but I experience nausea with everything. I will say that bodyload was much more manageable on this than any of the other aforementioned substances. For this reason, as well as other certain differences, I am sure that this is at the very least NOT 5-MEO-MIPT or likely any of the other 5-sub-trypts. The bodyload of Moxy was horrible for both me and my wife after the first hour or so, whereas TWS settled down nicely after the first hour.

The TWS tincture also included a very entheogenic aspect that the other substances I have tried did not. I did not particularly enjoy this part of it since I only like drugs as an enhancement to sex, so it is useful to note that it kept trying to head off in this direction against my wishes, and I had to consciously pull it back, although I suspect if the carnal activities had been more tantric in nature then this would have provided God-tier enhancements to the same; its just not where my interests lie. I am more shallow and just like to get my fuck on. For hours. And super-freakiness.

Please note that is not a criticism at all; obviously, shrooms or shroom-like things are going to be heavily entheogenic and I knew that going in. It's just another observation to make me think this is closer to what he attests that it is. IOW, other substances I have tried might be "spiritual" in nature, but I didn't find them to make me feel like I was one with the Universe or anything, whereas TWS made it feel like there was a very God-like presence in the mix.

TL;DR - I highly doubt that this is 2C-T-7 or even anything in the phenethylamine-class. If it is anything other than the genuine article that TWS claims that it is, then it is probably a 4-subbed trypt based on the subjective effects.

Also, I tripped my ass off, experienced ecstatic bliss, and ordered more of it, and will ingest it happily. You can send me yours if you decide not to take it. ;-)


[2 Points] TotesMessenger:

This thread has been linked to from another place on reddit.

If you follow any of the above links, respect the rules of reddit and don't vote. (Info / Contact)


[2 Points] None:

A+ for effort to thanks!


[2 Points] None:

In order to gain proper results you are going to need to do analysis via H-NMR and or GC/LC-MS in order to properly identify the contents of the liquid. Evaporating the liquid without the use of heat may help with reaction to the reagent but you cannot be certain without the use of proper analytical methods.

Though if what you say is true and the mushroom liquid is suspended in Ethanol than it would be very miniscule amounts of Psilocybin due to solubility issues and lots of Psilocin. Since 4-AcO-DMT is O-Acetylpsilocin using a reagent to determine whether it's Psilocin or its O-Acetylated counterpart will be notoriously hard. Not to mention Psilocybin mushrooms also contain amounts of Baeocystin and Norbaeocystin so that's 5 Indole compounds to sift through. Reagent simply isn't fit for this type of job unfortunately.

Your efforts are duly noted and appreciated though.


[1 Points] whiteyno1:

You took a big amount of time and effort into doing this - thank you.
Question: would liquid evaporation of psilocybin vial help with the testing? Maybe water or whatever solvent in the vial diluted reagent and made them unusable. If you have any psilocybin vial left, it would be worth try to evaporate liquid without use of heat and test again.


[1 Points] None:

[deleted]


[1 Points] Duderino420:

Ive ingested his vials before, wasn't a big fan.


[1 Points] akcom:

I wouldn't get too caught up in the Ehrlich results. That's a definite negative. At five hours, you're probably seeing the results of chemical oxidation of the DMAB or the paper carrier.


[1 Points] Naer-Zed:

since this is pretty inconclusive, wouldn't the customer reviews be a better place to look to confirm the substance?

also, why was the paper used? suerly that would just mess with the reaction between the reagent and the sample? could you instead: few drops of sample in the ceramic bowl. drop the reagent in until you get a reaction or sufficient is added for a reaction to eventually take place.

that would remove any other reactants (ie plant material) form disrupting the results

it seems like the Ehlrich test ould have taken longer because the sample was at a lower concentration due to the plant matter in the paper also being present in the reaction. This would probably also disturb the marquis tests in a similar way


[1 Points] -number2:

was this ever resolved by energy control? I personally think trip's Shroomjuice is dope, a good 2-3 vials is beast.


[0 Points] roionsteroids:

Indoles all have saimilar results. You can't really test kit 4-substituted tryptamines.

So yeah, need a lab analysis, this post is pretty much useless.


[-3 Points] None:

[deleted]


[-4 Points] heyfreshhhhh:

GC/MS or GTFO.


[-14 Points] Taylorswiftfan69:

These niggers are dead.