Isn't sending Bitcoins to a tumbler just as suspicious as sending them to a DNM? Doesn't using a tumbler just add another potential point of failure?
Tumbling
Isn't sending Bitcoins to a tumbler just as suspicious as sending them to a DNM? Doesn't using a tumbler just add another potential point of failure?
[5 Points] impost_r:
[2 Points] saystheleon:
Bitcoin tumblers are generally safe and do what they advertise, but I wouldn't even bother with them unless you're irrationally paranoid. Every marketplace already has their own built-in tumbler, so even sending funds directly from a bitcoin exchange site to a darknet marketplace will be nearly impossible to trace. The fact that I honestly can't think of a single case where someone has been caught by LE because of their bitcoin trail is proof of how difficult it is to do, so I seriously doubt anyone would use this method to target an average buyer looking to score a small amount of drugs. This would take a lot of time and effort by law enforcement and would be reserved for investigating high-profile vendors.
The very act of receiving drugs sent through the mail from an anonymous vendor is by far the most risky step. This is how you and 99.99% of people would get caught. Assuming you use PGP encryption and follow basic security procedures, someone tracking your bitcoin purchases should be the least of your concerns.
That being said, it's probably not a bad idea to send your purchased coins from a site like Coinbase to your personal bitcoin address before moving it to a marketplace, which is what I do.
[2 Points] attilathehunn:
Just because nobody has yet been busted for not mixing coins, doesn't mean the FBI won't do it in the future.
Only very stupid people think that the law is stupid. The Feds just haven't gotten around to learning how to follow the blockchain.
When you see what people like /u/impost_r can casually do, you'd be mad to not mix somehow.
EDIT: It is a doctrine of war not to assume the enemy will not come, but rather to rely on one's readiness to meet him; not to presume that he will not attack, but rather to make one's self invincible. - Sun Tzu, The Art of War.
[1 Points] ihave2pee1:
Sending coins to a tumbler can definitely get you on some watchlists but that alone doesn't prove that you're using the coins for nefarious or illegal purposes. As long as you don't give them a reason to bust you the odds of getting caught are minimal.
This method has been working for me since the original SR(before it went mainstream) but I'd recommend to use your own method. Putting all your trust in a 3rd party comes with a huge risk yet is the easiest way to feel secure. The safest way is to buy coins locally with cash then deposit them to an exchange that doesn't link back to your identity in any way. Next convert them into a couple of altcoins that have a steady exchange rate. From there you can either use the coins at a casino or transfer them to different exchanges. Once you have around the same amount of btc you started with send the smaller amounts to their own new wallet so each time you make a deposit it's going to a new deposit address.
[1 Points] Theeconomist1:
I have a long post that I'm still trying to articulate better. But one thought that crossed my mind, say if you didn't tumble and deposited directly to a market wallet, who's to say that you didn't sell the coin to someone, such as via LBC. I could meet up someone in person and give them my market wallet deposit address and buy coin and have him deposit directly into there. This is more an in-person deal than using LBC escrow b/c that goes to your wallet, but you get the point.
So instead of tumbling, could you just do deals like that and basically use the other person as your tumbler? They deposit right into your market wallet? Obviously there are probably OpSec issues with that since you did actually meet someone who can identify you, this is more of a thought experiment I guess. But if nobody can tell if a wallet is a market wallet, then the seller wouldn't know and I'd assume not much would come of it... And if the seller were using an online wallet, LE would need to subpoena the online wallet place, get who made that transaction, and then talk to them if they worked backwards from the market to the person who deposited into that wallet. Does this make sense?
Also that being said, without having access to the actual transactions on the market's database, there is no way to tie you to a purchase. It'd be like the feds trying to follow transactions at a bank without having access to the bank's books. They'd just see money coming in, money coming out. Without the internal accounting books, its pretty meaningless.
[1 Points] ComeShotMcGee:
Tumblers are bullshit, they are just a false sense of security. Buy coins in CASH via person to person. Safest way by far!!
Yes it is almost just as suspicious. Tumblers are a pretty ridiculous idea from the start, nobody knows who is behind them and even if you do you don't know if they are compromised. They're also the perfect target for LE.
There are so many semi legal bitcoin services that are being used to tumble coins I don't see a reason why anyone would use a service like Btcfog or Helix.
I've spoken with operators of bitcoin casinos, mixing using their services is pretty rampant.