The drug war and why legalization isn't a simple (or possible?) solution

Time to time, I see posts here about the drug war and how its government engineered to benefit the people in charge. I hear all the time from the hoi polloi that the government is foolish, that all drugs should be legalized like alcohol and cigarettes so violent cartels and other organizations will be robbed of an economic incentive/means to remain in power while providing tax money for public projects.

It is true that the current interdiction-focused strategy has failed since the drug war started and will continue to fail as far as I can tell; the stats don't lie. I do believe America's drug problem is more a problem of public health than crime control. And let's not forget that the government is stupid in terms of drug classification (passing laws to put psychedelics in schedule I without scientific basis, causing a major stunt in psychiatry's growth as a field of medicine, really makes me shake my head).

But only the uninformed will just blatantly say "make all drugs legal." I'm not calling you stupid if you do that but it's clear you're not seeing the big picture.

If making drugs legal and free for consumption and trade was entirely possible, it would take the political and administrative geniuses of our time.

For legalization to work as a means of ending the drug war and doing away with violent criminals economically, all drugs regardless of their harm potential have to be offered on the free market at a better price than what criminals can offer. Emphasis on all drugs must be offered because if a drug is in demand and arbitrage is made possible via laws making the drug's production, distribution, and consumption illegal, then people will just buy it from the same criminals all the other drugs were made legal to wipe out.

Alcohol and cigarettes, as bad as they are, are legal because they don't kill you immediately unless you fuck up big time. Because of this, they are sold at liquor stores and delis with a simple age restriction. How would in demand drugs like heroin work? A drinker gets overconfident at the bar so he ends up puking. A heroin user (IV in this case) gets overconfident in his apartment and dies on the couch.

So there's the matter of harm potential. A lot of people are retarded and are bound to hurt themselves but if we legalize everything except heroin, you still have heroin cartels and scumbags selling fentanyl. Which leads us to the next reasonable measure: a limit to how much one can buy per interval of time. Ignoring that this would clearly be counterproductive and allow a black market for heroin to survive, how would this interval of time be determined? How do you make sure that the guy doesn't just buy more at a different store? Which government body would regulate the stores themselves? How do you make sure the guy doesn't get someone else to buy it for him? What's the punishment for violating the weekly limit? Who's going to enforce this weekly limit and prevent circumvention, the cops who are already budget strapped and stretched thin? Not to mention the budget strapped and stretched thin legal system that already struggles with its current load of cases leaving people to serve time in jail before they're proven guilty. Then there's the possibility that the age minimum for drugs would still leave enough of a market for criminal enterprises to survive, by selling to students. Additionally, there's the problem of people with substance abuse and mental health histories purchasing addictive drugs at stores which would raise the issue of "fit-to-consume" verification unless the government wants depressed people easily getting their hands on the exact shit depressed people should be kept away from. I'm rambling now because there's so much to cover.

There's plenty more to bring to attention as well as plenty of scholarly articles that go into even greater depths of everything that would have to be figured out and well-executed for legalization to work as a drug war solution but I'm tired of typing.


Tl;dr: legalization as a solution to the drug war is harder than you could possibly imagine. Decriminalization of drugs is more realistic.

If you think I'm wrong, outline a detailed plan for making legalization possible and functional.


Comments


[9 Points] beatenangels:

My detailed plan. Legalise everything adapt and expand pre-existing administrative, quality control, and distribution mechanisms as alchohol. No limits on consumption. Is there a fit to consume requirement on alchohol? No cause that's the stupidest most arbitrary thing ever. Let poeple do what they will do but provide resources the try to limit harm.

Why do you think this is impossible? States have already done it with marijuana just expand the framework.


[3 Points] None:

[deleted]


[3 Points] dnmthrowawayobvious:

I agree with complete legalization as a matter of principle. It's my body and I have the right to do with whatever i so chose. Insenstivie as it is I also think killing yourself is a right for the same reason, therefore if people want to be reckless and kill themselves by ODing thats THEIR choice.

The only issue i have is when it burdens the taxpayer i.e. free healthcare for drug related issues is retarded.

Your argument is a logical fallacy, its the same thing with arguments against guns. Just because you make something illegal doesn't mean the people wont find a way to find it and use it. If a heroin addict wants heroin they will get heroin whether its legal or not.

The argument itself is irrelevant, you cannot make a logical case as to why I cannot do with my body what i chose as long as I do no harm to anyone else in the process. Whether i'm on my couch smoking dope or on my patio railing coke its none of your business.


With that being said I do not agree with pot legalization thats sweeping the country right now. Its not legalization, its government interventionism trying to get their sweaty palm on every cent. A true free market doesnt need such harsh regulations or regulations at all. Consumers set their own regulations by not buying from places that dont hold the same ethics and morals as their own.

A free and open market is the single greatest regulator and self-policer there is.


[2 Points] qemist:

Your argument is that if drugs were legal, people who are retarded would take too much and hurt themselves. Why should I care if people who are retarded hurt themselves? If the state cares (it doesn't really but it has political pressures) then it could try public education. Too bad it's poisoned the well already with decades of WoD propaganda.


[2 Points] DickCheeseKillah:

Watch season 3 of the wire. That's what I think drug legislation should look like. Just decriminalize drug use and dealing. Push it all into 1 corner of the city I mean it's already like that in most cities look At SF, Philly , Baltimore . People are going to use drugs until the end of time. As long as people are using and there's extreme poverty than you can bet there will be sellers. Just let them do their thing and set up places to offer help to addicts to focus on Coming at the demand not the supply.


[1 Points] hpoirot3rd:

One word - Portugal


[1 Points] divinesnake:

Although you say that someone like me isn't seeing the big picture, I would actually say the same about people like you (no offense).

offered on the free market at a better price than what criminals can offer

There is no need to compete with "criminals" because there will be no drug war to label them criminals in the first place. All other people who commit crimes will have no need to be involved in the drug trade since it will all be legal. The problems like these that you might see with cannabis in Colorado, etc is because it's still not fully legalized there. Not until you can find it in the grocery store next to alcohol (metaphorically speaking) will it be.

Alcohol and cigarettes, as bad as they are, are legal because they don't kill you immediately unless you fuck up big time.

First, that's not really why they're legal... Guns are used in suicides to kill immediately all the time even without fucking up, but (at least in some countries) they're legal. But either way, people get too drunk and die of an od or car crash with alcohol all the time, wayyy more than people do from heroin actually. Now, of course this has to do with a per capta issue, but the point is that alcohol is most certainly problematic enough as is. I still dont think it should be 'illegal.' Because that's not the solution: the solution is a societal and medical one, and there most certainly are way more creative (and effective) ways to address these problems than with what is mainstream right now. It is too vast a topic for me to go into all the possible harm reduction methods here. That said, we wont eliminate all ods ever. People will be people and do stupid things sometimes regardless--all we can do is try to mitigate it, but making it illegal is clearly not the solution, and you, too, have shown you have no problem seeing all the difficulties and questions that arise with that mate.

A drinker gets overconfident at the bar so he ends up puking. A heroin user (IV in this case) gets overconfident in his apartment and dies on the couch.

This is true, and it is something that needs a better solution than what we have at present. Although it is still quite easy to be overconfident and get killed in other ways too. But nevertheless, there are better ways of doing things to fix this problem. For one, create less addicts in the first place by de-incentivising (even if its just through education) opioid use by doctors and the public at large. Also, medicines such as ayahuasca and iboga can easily and literally 'cure' these addicts who wish to stop--overnight. Further, we need better ways of dosing heroin/fentanyl/opiods more effectively in a safer manner. Other ideas include more widespread 'fentanyl parties' with medical personal / sitters on site. My point is that for every problem there is a solution and that criminalization/attempts to control is never the best one.

if we legalize everything except heroin, you still have heroin cartels and scumbags selling fentanyl.

You don't have this problem: everything that can be made can be sold, so why try futilely to stop it?

depressed people easily getting their hands on the exact shit depressed people should be kept away from.

You're always going to have bad eggs, who do things that shouldn't be done. But either way at the end of the day there's no way you or anyone else can be looking over someone's shoulder 24/7 and ensuring that they cant get a hold of what they want. That still doesn't mean that society, strangers, friends, and family cant all play a huge part in effectively preventing the wrong people from doing the wrong things, but legal or not there is still no way to guarantee it doesn't happen, nor likely ever will be.

The plan is anarchism.


[1 Points] None:

yeah, i gotta agree with OP on this one. you simply cannot trust people with their own minds. even if we spent decades from now on, teaching people about how to safely inject heroin, how to bring back someone after an OD, people would still disregard it all and combo their drugs with overkill doses. fuck me, OD posts on /r/drugs are terrifyingly common. and a lot of these people post regularly on here.

we cant even trust people with alcohol, as car accidents while drunk are still very common. who's gonna defend all of this? no one with a mind wants to associate themselves with such a hot potato.

society as a whole is not ready to handle such potent intoxicants. thats just how it is. i wish for weed legalization tho.