BitcoinFog/Bitcoin Fog/BTCFog confirmed by /r/DNM mods to be Selectively Scamming, now shamed on the Superlist and the Wall of Shame pages of the Wiki

Finally, eh?

Although we can't get too specific for OPSEC reasons, rest assured that this matter has been seriously investigated and now tested by one or more of the moderators, here, and missing coins have been confirmed. Whether it's malicious theft or just incompetent coding on BTCFog's part, we now feel confident enough to put a clear and unmistakable warning about this "service" in our documentation.

https://www.reddit.com/r/DarkNetMarkets/wiki/superlist#wiki_bitcoin_fog_.2F_bitcoinfog_.2F_btcfog

https://www.reddit.com/r/DarkNetMarkets/wiki/index/wallofshame#wiki_bitcoin_fog_.2F_bitcoinfog_.2F_btcfog [EDIT: Removed due to lack of absolute, airtight proof that can be shared]

/r/DarkNetMarkets Wiki home page: https://www.reddit.com/r/DarkNetMarkets/wiki/

Any comments, etc. are welcome below!

EDIT: So, the gun may have been jumped a little, here. Because we can't actually show the proof to you all, I'll be scaling back just how serious the warnings are on the Superlist, and won't be putting them on the Wall of Shame. The mods here are not gods, and we shouldn't expect anyone to just "take our word for it" on anything like this. I'm currently gathering all the links I can from users who are not throwaway accounts who have had problems with Fog, and those links will be posted on the Superlist when I'm done [EDIT2: This is now done - please check out some of those links and see for yourself, including at least one well-known vendor who asserts that they were scammed - if you have any testimonials to share, please let us know].

Apologies to anyone who felt that this was a bad move to make.


Comments


[17 Points] None:

FINALLY


[13 Points] gramsadmin:

Maybe now you will believe it was not us posting the complaints about bitcoinfog... Grams does not shill!


[7 Points] KimJongUntouchable:

>/r/DarknetMarkets moderators confirmed for Sigaint employees.

But for real, why can't you go into details?If privacy is the issue could you not have tumbled the coins beforehand?


[10 Points] None:

You guys/gals are doing an excellent job of late.


[8 Points] auto587643:

Lol, this has been going on forever with BTC Fog, about time something was finally done about them.


[7 Points] select1on:

I've also removed them.


[4 Points] DareToHope:

Finally, eh?

You're canadian too eh? No way eh?


[6 Points] J0NJ0NES:

I had started to write what would have been a long post about how problematic this move by this mod is, but I'm busy, and I'm fatigued with having to restate concepts which I have already explained in detail in this community.

So, in lieu of posting actual evidence of wrong doing (which if I'm not mistaken was supposed to be part of the process, not 'trust us' as this mod has stated above), would all the mods formally sign off on this, stating in clear and no uncertain terms that they have verifiable evidence that bitcoinfog is scamming.

Better yet, post the evidence, and prevent yourselves from slipping down this slippery slope of the 'trust us' process yet again. A flawed process which caused all that controversy and the entire wiki inclusion process to be redesigned only a few months ago. What a waist of time that was, eh /u/MLP_is_my_OPSEC ?


[4 Points] fuckrrightndapussy:

I can't believe this is still a topic that is up for debate. It is so obvious to me, from reading others' posts and experiencing it myself, what they are doing.

They allow vendors/accounts with large bitcoin deposits to operate normally. Their 1 - 3 % fee makes this a sustainable business model, with vendors probably moving large amounts of bitcoin for them to make a decent enough commission to keep the site running.

Then, they selectively scam people that deposit about 2 btc or less. This allows them to swoop on up to $400 at once, without really hurting their business (they probably wouldn't have made more than $400 off of that person over the life of their account anyway, so why not?).

This leaves a perfect combination of reputable vendors that stand behind the service, bitcoin noobs that aren't taken seriously when they complain about being selectively scammed, and regular users who have a good experience and stand behind the service.

I got scammed by these assholes months ago when I was brand new to the darknet and trying to go overboard with OPSEC (check my post history), just like lots of darknet noobs, so none of this surprises me in the least.


[3 Points] litecoin-p2pool:

The /r/joinmarket project is coming along nicely for those looking for a better, decentralized, bitcoin privacy service. Not super user-friendly quite yet, but if you can follow directions, it is a great option.


[2 Points] ukthrowdataway:

blacklisted is all well and good but they are still laughing all the way to the bank. DNM users browsing this sub are the minority


[2 Points] None:

I lost .6 bitcoin from there and no one batted an eye.


[2 Points] fucksigaint22:

Ok now investigate sigaint those fucks stole from me and wouldnt respond to messages


[2 Points] None:

Thanks for providing proof, the throwaways were beyond coincidental to me. I'll change my tune.


[2 Points] r3vv:

About a year ago I was a dumb ass and used Bitcoin Fog. I never saw those BTCs again.

Live and learn, but I'm glad this warning is finally up. Avoid them at all costs.


[2 Points] TripWithScience:

I can confirm that bitcoin fog selectively scams. I had a large amount of BTC disappear from my fog account last month. I deposited it, and 2 days later when I went to withdraw it... it was gone.

And I've been around the block long enough to know not to fall for phishing sites or otherwise give my password out. Or use the same password/login on different DNM sites. I messaged the fog admin about it and never heard anything back.


[2 Points] hog_master:

Please put them on the WoS with a warning. It is BEYOND obvious that they are scamming.

Don't even know why we are still talking about this issue.

It's akin to they "SR is just fooling us, they didn't REALLY get taken down by the FBI" threads at the time.

Just let it go already.


[1 Points] 84272:

I don't see why people think tumbling sites are a good idea it is way to easy for the owners to become tempted and start a ponzi scheme even if they get in over their heads it can easily happen accidentally.


[1 Points] Accountfortheshredde:

I feel terrible for all the people that have been scammed by Bitcoin Fog. That really sucks, I know a lot of people have lost their money and that should not happen.

However, and maybe this is to some extent the fault of Reddit mods (although they do have a notice attached to Bitcoin Fog on the tumblers list), as it should be in big, BOLD letters under the Active Warnings section, that Bitcoin Fog ARE IN FACT scammers. Whether selective or not, there have been fucking WIDE spread reports of them scamming since the end of the SR1 days or at least the beginning of the SR2 days.

But that said, I'm not going to lay it on the Reddit mods. It's not like they are in league with Bitcoin Fog. You people that are using the Fog should have known better by know. It's been posted on Reddit, it's been posted on the SR2 forums (all over them), it's been posted on the Evolution forums (all over them), the BB forums, Agora forums, etc, etc, etc, and bloody fucking hell, its been posted on Bitcoin Fog's own forums. How much more do you guys need to realize that they are shady operators that fuck people out of their money.

It's possible you have used them for years and been lucky and not gotten hit by them (as stated, it's selectively, therefore, at random), cheers to you, but chances are you are going to be fucked out of of some knockers at some point mate.

So let's just put an end to this once and for all. Help out those that rely on Reddit for solid news and info., and paste it loud and clear...

BITCOIN FOG = SCAMMERS

And one could hope that is all they are guilty off. Because I do not know if it's true, and I hope to god its not, but many people have suggested (no idea whether their research is sound) that their service does not truly sever the chain. Meaning the do not erase the taint, they do not protect you in any way, and they are as close to a honey pot as tumbler could possibly be.

Maybe the fuckers that scribble this shit down are the same bloody potsers that keep aluminum foil in heavy demand, but I know this for sure, Bitcoin Fog being scammers is in no way current news.

This should all just be general knowledge at this point.


[1 Points] cherrybro:

HOLY FUCK WHY IS THIS JUST HAPPENING NOW WHAT THE FUCK


[1 Points] Vendor_BBMC:

You might be right. If you KNOW you're right, then you have to tell people. bitcoinfog won't stay up long if they know the gig is up.

You have to have a show of hands before you use the S word on reddit, which you've obviously done, so you stand and fall together. Not every scammer is as obliging as Evolution, so bitcoinfog might not be gone in a few hours.

You should totally remove bitcoinfog if you know that they're scamming. Its better to be right than to be popular, because the truth will always out eventually.

I'm guessing your source is an insider or former employee whistleblowing. If the evidence was provided by a competitor, you have have to get permission to quote them, or you have to carry the can if you're being manipulated.

Probably the reason they're being selective in their scamming, is because there are two parts to bitcoinfog. One is uncrackable, in my opinion, but they CAN'T get away with more than a few hundred bitcoin, and wouldn't bother with less than 50, probably.

If you deposit, say, 10btc, SOMEBODY ELSE'S 10BTC FROM YESTERDAY is tumbled. You btc is tumbled for somebody tomorrow. I can't see a way of cracking that. When your bitcoin doesn't turn up in dribs and drabs 6 to 12 hours later, you cant see where they've stolen it to on the blockchain (you have to ignore the times right now, with this max block row and "stress-testing" going on, because they're trying to slow the network down and tumblers pay the smallest transaction fees (because they do hundreds of transactions in a tumble). They're last in the queue.

If you try to tumble a lot of bitcoin, there aren't enough already on deposit to tumble, so yours have to go straight through. This is absolutely trackable, but only because YOU SAW THEM GOING IN (tumblers hide where bitcoin CAME FROM from people who receive them at a later date, they don't hide where they are going to).

You just follow the largest chunk each time it splits up, and it gets smaller and smaller. When it starts getting bigger, you're past the halfway point and you can stop there. The light at the far end of the tunnel shows up using a reverse (forward-looking) taint analysis. ou're looking for a lot of connections rather than a high percentage taint, so be careful not to get it mixed up with a mining pool or satoshidice.

I'm pleasantly surprized at reddit mods doing this sort of thing, I get fed up of it always being us. You know what I mean? Its especally scary the first time because everyone piles in. You point to your evidence, and they discuss your finger.

My "first" involved bitcoinfog. Everyone took the piss, because we cracked a tumlier's algorithm for the first time, all for nothing. "What a waste of time. Its gone to an BTC(E) exchange" and you hang your head because even the wall street journal quoted it like it was a fact.

When sheepmarket's owner was arrested this year, because police linked the bitcoin he cashed out at an exchange with Sheepmarketplace, nobody remembers that bitcoinfog was there to make that connection impossible.

When you are proved right, the FBI or somebody will be credited with it, but you will know it was your scalp.

You can NEVER use the "S" word on reddit and be wrong, though. You don't need me to tell you that. Tumblers depend on trust more than any other service, and fog's integrity levels were so high that Agora used them as collateral.

This is the biggest, hardest target you could choose to take down, tough even for you moderators. Bitcoinfog definitely knew it was laundering stolen sheepmarket money, so I was fucking furious (they let everyone off commission that week, probably because "Tomaz" had pre-paid for tumbling - he hated odd numbers and fractions. 96,000btc went in, and 96,000 came out.

Ironic really, because if 95,999.2 btc went in he probably wouldn't be in prison now. Bitcoin prices were peaking in Nov 2013, and the 0.8 btc he stole off BBMC could have bought a used car or paid for xmas.

the next time we were robbed, you have to make it difficult or it will keep happenning. We totally bypassed the trauma of reddit and listed Defcon's guilt as an item for sale on Silk Road 2.0, and got deepdot to see it that way.

https://www.deepdotweb.com/2014/02/20/here-is-the-stolen-silk-road-wallet/

Defcon didn't know who we were, but if he'd left behind my 2.1btc that wouldn't have happened.

I feel lucky, I'm confident I trade safely on Alphabay. If they get hacked, I bet they nick all the american vendor's bitcoins but don't bother with my 2 or 3. I'm not worth the trouble.

Good luck. Its the right thing to do if you're doing the right thing. I had you down as a bunch of shifty rogues until today.


[1 Points] Vendor_BBMC:

Its kinda sad when you think you can trust somebody, then find out you were wrong.

I'm going to have to use grams now, and something never felt right with it. BTCfog is finished if this gets onto deepdotweb.

You would think bitcoinfog, after the slow attrition of all the "selective scammer" claims here on reddit, would just need one push from the mods here and it will fall. But reddit isn't visible enough, things said on here don't affect the outside world. Its usually the quickest way of getting something on deepdot and the techy websites, to the mainstream press.

I have my "No Proof" flare, but I'm actually very evidence-based. If you get your evidence up here as soon as possible, I will help you to finish bitcoinfog.

The same offer goes to bitcoinfog. I know its hard to prove a negative. But I would imagine Reddit mods, if anything, would favor bitcoinfog over Grams Helix.

Grams has many of the same functions as this subreddit, but its a money-making commercial operation. This sub's main rival. I trust you mods on this because you'd actually be hurting yourselves a bit by indirectly sending more people and bitcoin to Grams Helix.

Sending people to Grams is the last thing we would do.


[1 Points] Vendor_BBMC:

I was about to say its unusual for a sub's mod team to issue a scam warning themselves, But I almost forgot that Hank and I are moderators of a subreddit. Its only a week old and I had to take it private with only two threads, started by acompletestrangeone and 404drugsnotfound, respectively, Both nutters, but you kind of know where you are with acompletestrangeone. He's an outsider, like me

But they're thrill-a minute threads, theres even a death threat. Its basically an almost-empty box with a padlock on it.

Seems like a lot of hassle running a subreddit. Ive got no aspirations to run one (in fact it would feel like a step down) so I'm probably going to sell my box. Astrid-style.

Bitcoinfog don't have an active sub, do they? In the interests of hearing both sides of the story, I'm going to speak to them. You can put your evidence here, but they have nowhere to respond.

We have a gameshow called "deal or No deal" in the UK. At one point in the game, the contestants can buy a box with a question mark on it.


[1 Points] redditpce:

Hello, Just tried it...first time one year ago, and today, and no problems, the server just been down for few hours. You must be carefull because there are alot of fake bitcoinfog sites, so you cannot shame them if you didnt visited the good link. Now...you think that they do selective scam...I dont contest that. Be carefull anyway...


[-1 Points] lordredvampire:

Just tumble your BTC via TOR over VPN and you will BE FINE!