The Grand Wizard's Guide to Avoiding "Exit Scammers"

After watching a few of our more spectacular "exit scam" flameouts the Grand Wizard would note a few things:

Many of these "exit scammers" came out of nowhere offering large quantities of product. SleepForever starts out offering Xanax bars in 500+ quantities; PopperMachine quickly became the biggest MXE supplier on the Darknet. They never did the donkey work of building supply lines and preparing a shipping routine. They never gained any kind of experience in working an online store before jumping into a 100+ orders/day business. And, not surprisingly, they soon found themselves in way over their heads.

They also spent very little time building a track record before they went FE only. When we look at the stories of these vendors "turning to the dark side," it turns out they were only offering escrow for a couple weeks or so. When they then discovered the cash flow problems that come with escrow, they went FE only to keep their store running smoothly. (As opposed to growing it organically and keeping the appropriate reserves etc. on hand). And when their desperate efforts fail and they go tits up, a bunch of people who were trusting them based on a 14-day track record wind up getting burned.

If you see a vendor experiencing these growing pains, the Grand Wizard advises you shop elsewhere. They may get their act together but odds are they won't -- and you, the customer, will be the one left holding the bag when the shitstorm comes.


Comments


[29 Points] _Sleep_Forever_:

If I was going to say what to watch out from, from personal experience. It would be:

  1. Shipping delays, obviously. Even if they are made up for in some ways. If it only happens once or twice here and there, that's fine. But if it's a consistent problem in a vendors history, avoid.
  2. Vendors that show lack of motivation. It was obvious that I was a slacker, and a procrastinator. The fact that I kept saying I was going to list my Valium "today", and never did, was not because I didn't have it. That's just one example, but it should be pretty easy to see how motivated a vendor is. I had 100-200 grams of each of my pharmaceutical powders, I had a consistent supply of Xanax, and like I said before, never dipped below 20k in stock after I had started growing in popularity. There was no reason for your packages to be as late as they were. Yes I was running a one man operation, but if I treated it like a real job, things would have gone out much faster. This is again one of the biggest things id look at for. I was making 80k/month in net profit, with that number only going up at a rapid pace. The fact that I didn't treat it like a real job with that kind of money on line, shows that I wasn't fit to be a vendor. Anyone else that has these traits is not fit to be a vendor either.
  3. Ya, avoid FE only. Even though I really just did it for the selfish reasoning of wanting to be paid upfront for my products, and not have large amounts tied up in escrow, however, it is a warning sign no doubt.
  4. Growing too fast/not being able to keep up with orders. Exactly what the grand wizard said, vendors who experience growing pains. I wouldn't say to discount all vendors who are going through them, I would maybe give it some time to play out, but if they cannot seem to resolve whatever issue it is they may have with their growing success, then yes, they should be avoided.
  5. Poor opsec. This should speak for itself. While I will continue to disagree about the hand written labels, my pgp key was weak, and I never fixed it (going back to the procrastination point). I have been dox'd, so my opsec was clearly poor in another area as well, though I have not been told how this info was found. Vendors with poor OpSec are typically not stupid, they are usually just lazy.
  6. Lying. If a vendor says he is going to ship today and doesn't, maybe give him the benefit of the doubt. If it's an ongoing issue, then avoid at all costs unless you feel like rolling the dice. Many of my customers ordered from me because they felt the price of my product made it worth the risk of it taking a while, or getting it at all. I still think that any vendor that says they will ship on one day and doesn't any more than one time should not be used.

There is also a certain writing style that can tip me off to bad vendors, but that might just be me, as I can't explain what it is. For example, the way torcollective handled his shake bag drama seemed pretty good. But to me it seems like he is going to have a lot of trouble in vending just based on his replies and the way he writes.

I am sure there are more that I can think of, but im drawing blanks right now + I am very tired and dealing with a shitload of drama right now.

Somewhat seperate tangent, since my name was thrown in the mix -

You are correct about not working an online store before jumping into 100+ orders a day. However, I had built great supply lines which is why I was able to secure so much product. The very first day I started on Evo, I had a supply of 5000 xanax bars already. They sold out within 24 hours. I went FE only because I consistently had 30k USD in escrow, and it was scary as fuck. The largest of my FE orders all arrived, and many of the smaller ones didn't, because as you said, I was in way over my head, and I am a huge procrastinator. I had offered escrow for 2 1/2 months and had made 400 btc in completed orders before I went FE only. When I was told I wasn't allowed to go FE only, I switched back to allowing escrow. There were never any cash flow problems. A single 10k order paid for nearly 100k bars. That's why I never had to worry about stock, and laughed at those that thought I was waiting for them to order before drop shipping from India. I always had enough bars on hand to fulfill up to 20k in orders at minimum. Never dipped under that number.

I agree with you though, that was just my experience. However, I did attempt to make things right but admitting I was in over my head head, and quitting by pulling down all my listings and posting that I was quitting. Saying that I would stick around to resolve disputes and use the money from the incoming escrow finalizes to pay back those that FE'd and did not receive their order. Some claim I did this to buy time on auto finalizes, but I took a 2-3 day break from even checking my account, as I desperately needed it. If I was scamming by trying to buy time and get auto-finalize money, I would have been logging in everyday to withdraw coin.

I honestly shouldn't have gone FE in the first place, I'll admit that. Thing's were not running smooth enough and as you said, the growing pains were too much. The people who FE'd had the same problem that all my escrow buyers had, way too long of shipping time, and being lied to about shipping times. Though, they would have had the same resolution as all my buyers had, if my account had not been banned, and I had been given the chance to make things right, as I attempted to show that I wasn't trying to take any money by taking down my listings and refusing orders, even through PM's.

I always supported Evo's mod team/staff on here when people claimed that they sucked at stopping scammers, or that they allowed people to scam for weeks on end. Well, they banned my account after I pulled my listings and posted that I wasn't taking anymore orders, and not a moment sooner. To me, that seems odd, and unfair - to both me and the buyers. I still had pending disputes which I was going to rightfully win, I still had orders in escrow that had been received by the buyer that hadn't been finalized yet, I still had people who FE'd that had not received. I deserved the chance to remedy the situation that I created, as I had an excellent track record of resolving my disputes in a more than fair manner. Always refunded buyer their original purchase amount if coins had dropped significantly when they didn't receive their order. Always added a large amount of extra bars to every order that was shipped late. All of this was proven by my feedback up until the fiasco that has been the past couple of weeks. So at the very least, my funds should have been locked, and I should have had access to my account still.

Your post is pretty spot on, though I disagree with avoiding those that come offering bulk listing. Those are the easiest to fulfill for a vendor, you should know that. 50 10x bar orders takes a lot longer than 2 2500x orders.


[19 Points] None:

Next week's headlines: I think GrandWizardsLair is exit scamming.

Well played GWL


[15 Points] thebedguy:

TLDR; don't FE.


[5 Points] None:

The grand wizard is saying noob vendors set up, get overwhelmed, exit.


[5 Points] pinkprincess1:

I like you GW.


[2 Points] Rabbi_Krustofsky:

Sage advice from someone who has walked down this road a many time. Thank you kind mentsh, Grand Wizard.

Shalom


[2 Points] honestlyimeanreally:

Be wary of vendors who set up FE from the get-go, also.

This looks less suspicious for some because it's from the very start, vendor probably just needs to get his Operation up on its feet.

Still, coming out of nowhere with bulk seems to be a trend.

See: NeighborJohn on Agora...


[1 Points] None:

Quite true indeed and good advice.


[1 Points] PsychedelicTangerine:

Dont FE its that simple.

Fe should not be allowed as what is the point of BTC if we are just giving our money away