Perhaps someone can help punch some holes in this?

First of all, I'm a long time lurker, but a long-time fan of this sub-reddit. It got me started. I also rarely post anywhere, and this is my first Reddit post ever, so I apologize if I have forgotten some of the reddiquette.

Thanks for your time/help/advice/thoughts!

TLDR;

Why not act as a bitcoin buyer and "ordering" facilitator for a trusted local dealer? I would act as the source, but take the payment up front, place the order, and have it shipped direct to the dealer's customers; I would take a percentage of each transaction for myself for the service.

Full Context:

Few people near me understand DNMs, crypto-currency, or the intricacies with PGP and staying safe while ordering.

I have a local dealer who pays absurdly high prices from his sources, and they don't ever get anything particularly amazing compared to what is possible from DNMs.

I've ordered a couple of things from DNMs for him, and he's convinced that this is a "good thing"; both the prices and the convenience. I explained everything to him, held back nothing, and helped him understand what I do. He, of course, still would never sit down and learn it (he said so himself), but wants to continue ordering.

We use strong encryption when communicating with one another (I've shown him how using Wickr with completely anonymous handles and all sharing/friend-finding set to false), and we set the messages to self-destruct within 2 hours of opening.

I keep nothing stored to disk and run everything within Tails. I am certain there is more that I can do to ensure my anonymity, but for now, I am comfortable with this.

THE PITCH:

I started brainstorming with him one night. He has a few customers who are considered his "regulars", and I asked him whether or not he thinks they would want to have anything they wanted, shipped to their door. He's found a few people who are interested as first time buyers, and intends to expand the network very slowly.

I am considering setting up a LocalBitcoins.com account and begin buying and sending bitcoins for various ways of receiving cash, up to $1000/week.

This will give me a good cover for anything I do from my real identity with bitcoins.

Since nothing ever even comes to my dealer's or my doorstep, and I always strongly encrypt addresses and personally identifying information on the DNMs... I don't see how this could get back to me other than a leak in information, and even then, there would be little to no proof...

Feedback:


Comments


[3 Points] the1337one:

If customers are giving you the money first make sure you can pay them back if a site gets shut down or a vendor exit scams. I have seen many posts of people freaking out saying they lost someone elses money


[3 Points] WightLightY:

I have essentially been doing this for a bit now. I didn't plan it as intently at you, though if I continue I will certainly need to change some aspects. Good thread, I'm very curious on these things as well.

I can tell you some issues you might run into. Vendor scams, long shipping times and the possibility that one of the customers may try to scam you (saying they didn't receive a package when they really did). And normal people seem to want their drugs immediately and will repeatedly inquire on when it's coming. And the bigger worries of market scams/hacks as well as controlled deliveries.

Those can all be major problems, but they are not insurmountable. You would be well served to have explicit rules made clear to the customers before doing this. Like who is liable in case of vendor scam, or market scam or whatever is the case. And the customers should be let known how to act in the event of a controlled delivery, and just general common sense opsec stuff.

Then there is the aspect or making the actual purchase. Will you do international for them? and how much risk are you willing to pass on to them? And how do you weigh vendor reliability versus potential bigger profit for yourself and your dealer customer?


[2 Points] whotthefuckareyou:

Not a bad idea until a package goes missing, vendor scams you, or market gets seized with your clients coins. While everyone knows there is an element of danger and uncertainty in this business, few are willing to deal with it when it happens to them. There is also the issue of CD's to consider.


[2 Points] Theeconomist1:

So this would be basically becoming a marketplace, but for a particular vendor, it sounds like. You'd essentially be offering similar services as a market - a way to connect, a way to pay, a way to communicate, etc. It sounds like you are tyring to grow the network organically through existing contacts? Otherwise, if you are going to basically manage the technical aspects of getting a vendor on an existing market like Evo or Agora, you should think of yourself as a vendor then, like an affiliate program but for fun stuff. LOL. I don't claim to be an expert at all, been around maybe about a year, so take what I say in the proper context.

Should you do this? Nobody but you can answer this. I don't know what kind of money you are talking, but obviously the more involved, the riskier it gets. Are you prepared for potential legal consequences? You would basically be part of a conspiracy I'd assume, from a legal perspective. Are you experienced enough in laundering bitcoin and money? Do you think you'll be able to cover both? Also, your buds now, but as always, someone else is someone else's mouth you can't control. If he got busted IRL, would he turn on you, make you seem like the "brains" behind a larger organization? Most anyone would be able to spin a convincing story about how he (the dealer) is just some lowly local dealer and you provided the liquidity, the financing, the matchmaking (b/w consumer and provider), and so forth. In fact, it could sound like YOU were the more active participant in the conspiracy rather than a passive person who providing some help. I'm just playing devil's advocate here so take it as that, not saying NOT to do it. Only you can decide if its worth it. Personally, the only way I'd consider doing something like this would be if I expected or planned to get rich off of it. This could be a big deal if caught, not worth doing just for the heck of it. You better be pulling in some big dollars to make it worth it, IMO.

As you get larger, problems grow exponentially. Liquidity becomes harder and harder as you are trying to provide the proper coins/cash for transactions but not trying to raise the suspicions of banks. Its true of any business actually, problems grow as you make more and more money. But its not a bad problem to have at all, not saying that, but when you add the illegal aspect to it, you have to move differently than you would if you were running a legit biz.

I think you should forget about Apple or any phone in general. I wouldn't trust them unless you jailbroke the phone and that's even a big maybe. You should be technical enough to understand what's going on behind the scenes on your phone. Tails is not only better than Windows or OS/X for the obvious reasons, BUT Tails is simple. Its well vetted. With Windows, you know how hard it is to even fucking uninstall an application b/c it writes its shit everywhere. So the parallel example is you have no clue how the app is behaving behind the scenes and where shit is being stored or sent. There is no safe iOS app. I wouldn't even use it as a small buyer, let alone an enterprise like you are talking about. Why would you need to use iOS over a burner laptop? What type of advantage are you looking at? Just to be more mobile in general?

So, I'm not saying at all its a bad idea. Keep in mind my comments are just to play devil's advocate a bit and give some things you need to think of. I can't answer whether its a good idea b/c I don't know you. I don't know your abilities, your weaknesses, your relationship with the vendor, your personal situation, etc etc.

So I guess the service you are mainly providing is shielding the vendor from having to worry about the technical aspects of operating on the DNMs? It seems you could mainly follow the advice of a vendor b/c in a way that's essentially what you kind of are doing - you are basically a proxy to the vendor. I'm sure bigger organizations who operate on the DNMs would be how you'd need to emulate. Esp if you plan on just "representing" this one vendor, you would be putting his presence on some DNM market, taking care of communication, and handling the transaction w/ the exception of perhaps actually shipping the product. In addition, it sounds like you are providing bitcoin services as well.

Just some thoughts off the top of my head.


[2 Points] pscifi:

If I were you I'd just middle man your dealer. It will be a hell of a lot less complicated and you'll save yourself many headaches. Just buy bulk of what's in demand and sell it to your guy for a little profit and he can do the same. I wouldn't want to get caught up handling multiple people's money and orders because soooo much can go wrong when buying drugs lol. I think your plan to be "indirectly involved" is very elaborate and creative but it would be so much easier to middleman your dealer friend


[1 Points] somejohnguy:

The current state of iOS encryption is hated by LE. Do a quick google on it and you'll find that (if the user is staying updated) it is almost impossible for LE to get any data whatsoever from an iPhone, and even more impossible if using something such as Wickr.


[1 Points] somejohnguy:

Entrepreneur.com calls it "Impenetrable" - http://www.entrepreneur.com/article/238428


[0 Points] JuniorMalanda:

The key is to be as high as possible on the distribution ladder so I wouldn't deal with minor customers if I were you. The things that get you fucked are mostly people. The less people the better for you.