Journalist question: buying guns on the deepweb

Hi Redditors,

I'm a reporter with the Guardian, currently looking into a piece looking at what effect the president's new executive action on gun control - specifically the clarification that requires even small internet-based vendors to do background checks - will have on gun-buying on the internet.

Specifically - will it drive more people to buy guns on the deepweb? Are there that many sites selling guns - and what are they? Did Armory turn out to be a scam site after all that attention?

Also: do you buy or sell guns on the internet or operate on a site which does, and if so have you seen any change in the number of guns or customers in the last few days?

EDIT: lot of people are saying that there's no legit gun sellers on the DW. If there's a crackdown in no-background-checks sales elsewhere - and parts of the executive order (which are pretty vague admittedly) imply that even a private sale of two guns can count as a vendor sale and be actionable if no background checks are available - then if more people go to the darkweb, will it be a massive payday for scammers and the FBI? Or will legitimate supply rise to meet demand?

EDIT 2: also, are the Amman Bundy thuhll tuhkk urr guhnns types even capable of the kind of web-savvy that shopping on the deep web requires?


Comments


[38 Points] DabloEscobarGavira:

No one sells guns on any major deep web market , there are plenty of scammers purporting to sell guns because a fool and his money are easily parted. Most markets ban weapons listings for this very reason, it only leads to buyers getting ripped off and complaining (they also don't want the bad publicity that comes from selling guns)

On the presidents speech, where are all these online gun stores selling with no back ground checks? Because I have never seem such a thing.


[16 Points] None:

People can still sell guns to one another privately. What he did will have zero affect on anything.

All gun sells/sellers on the "deepweb" are the ATF, FBI or some other government entity. Only the slow and autistic think otherwise.

Enjoy!


[11 Points] LivingOnAdrenaline:

You chose a book for reading


[9 Points] RinseLatherRinse:

There are 300+ MILLION. That's 300,000,000+ guns in America. There's no shortage. Anyone could get one in real life without using the dark web in America if they really wanted too, even if they had a record, etc. Nice idea, but it's not really relevent in the states.

Edit:

Also, hardly anyone sells guns on the dark web. I saw that one bullshit motherboard piece (from Vice) about the dude who makes guns. Other than that I hardly see it. It's bad business for the admins of the vendor sites as it would attract a lot more LE attention.


[8 Points] madisonrebel:

Few markets allow weapons trading anymore.

It matters even less with the development of ceramics that can be used in 3D printers with extremely high heat tolerances. We're even closer to home manufacturing of firearms at this point.


[6 Points] UKFruits1:

Most gun sellers on those forums are just scammers or LE traps ;)


[7 Points] al_eberia:

There are no real guns being sold on any darknet. There were a few legitimate vendors but they were subject to intense investigations (the ATF had only a few targets to aim at so they could throw lots of resources at them). The Feds placed orders, profiled their packages, narrowed down their shipping locations and then arrested them. Their market accounts were then taken over and used to conduct stings against buyers. The same thing happened to vendors who were selling toxins. Any reputable market bans both categories as all the vendors are either stings or scams.


[5 Points] Jammytime710:

Write about how the DN reduces harm or street crime instead of taking the weapons angle.

As it's a UK paper you will no doubt be trying to scare people by saying look how easy it is to get guns online. It's not easy in reality.

Ask the boy Wales who was recently convicted of trying to import a weapon.

There are hundreds of guns in London most of them for sale if I wanted a gun in the UK I would use the DN last.


[7 Points] PhillipStein:

Fuck off media the darknets don't exist


[5 Points] AmazinPride:

id never buy a heater online, S.Y.L


[3 Points] dndude:

There are no guns on the darknet. 99.999% of all the scary weapons/poisons etc are either scammers or the feds. I remember seeing a listing for ricin on Evolution I laughed at it and didn't think anyone would be stupid enough to purchase it. Turns out it was the FBI

None of the markets list guns. I remember DPR tried to start a seperate market for guns. (The Armory?) There wasn't a market for them and there was so much shenanigans around it it was shut down pretty shortly.

The only people who you'll hear talk about guns on the darknet are clueless Law Enforcement, and people who just parrot what they read in some article/ "You can buy assault! weapons on the TOR"


[3 Points] balduran0:

Its very hard to buy guns on the deepweb (maybe even imossible) . I dont know any legit market with guns.


[3 Points] None:

the easiest way to buy guns is at gunshows.


[3 Points] AxisTwo:

As many have pointed out, the darknet is not a legitimate source of guns. Here's the big surprise for most people: the anti-gun folks would have you believe that you can legally order a firearm on the Internet and have it sent to your home, but this is most certainly not the case. The so-called loophole that Obama claims to be closing is for face to face sales that are legal in several states without a background check and can occur at gun shows. In these states it is possible to advertise the gun on the Internet, but the transfer has to be done in person. There are large Internet sites like Gunbroker that allow one to purchase a weapon online, but the firearm has to be sent to an FFL (Federal Firearm Licensee), in other words a gun shop. To pick up the weapon a background check is mandatory. There are states such as California where all transfers except intrafamilial transfers require a background check through an FFL.

The anti-gun crew throws around a number claiming that 40% of guns are sold without a background check. This number came from a small study that was done around the time that federal law began (decades ago) requiring the above-mentioned background checks, and a significant number of the 40% were transferred privately before the law went into effect. The number of guns currently sold without a background check is unknown, but there are next to no reports of guns sold in this manner being used in violent crime.

So the long and short is that almost all sales are already done with a background check and that universal background checks will do next to nothing. Proof you say? How about the recent terror attack in California? The weapons were bought by a friend who made a straw purchase (claimed to buy the guns for himself but were actually for another person). Show me that a significant number of guns used in crimes came from a sale without a background check, and I will retract my statement.


[2 Points] None:

This is America, guns are everywhere. Ordering one through the darkweb would be as pointless as ordering toilet paper through the darkweb. Also let's not forget that rape and murder are both illegal, yet they occur on a regular basis. If someone wants to break the law, additional laws aren't going to deter them. It would be much easier to steal them or even arrange a deal through a private seller.


[2 Points] y_s_l_:

IIRC there /was/ at least one legitimate vendor based out of Montana, but they eventually rolled for some federal agency (ATF or FBI I think), and had their account become a honeypot.


[2 Points] Clix828:

[deleted]

What is this?


[2 Points] None:

Comrade Obama's latest end run around the Congress will be challenged in the court system brother. This is just another weak attempt to take guns out of the hands of 99% of gun owners who do not break any laws. The only question that needs to be answered is this my friend, when has ANY law ever stopped a criminal from doing a crime? Meth & cocaine are both illegal in both of our countries, yet either of us can make a few clicks with a mouse & get both delivered to our front door. Long story short, the legal gun owners will follow this illegal attempt to keep guns out of law abiding citizens hands, while the criminals will do as they always do, commit crime. BTW, I am so sick of this crap argument that the American Constitution only applies to muskets, when the First Amendment clearly applies to text & post such as this on the internet.

Being an ex-government trained killer myself, I own many weapons & as far as buying a weapon off of the internet, I would only do it if there was an escrow system in play to protect my money. If I need an illegal weapon I will go to Mexico & buy a Fast & Furious weapon that Obama sent there in the first place. Remember this, America is the worlds biggest exported of weapons on the planet, we profit off of death & sleep very well at night!!!!! But let's keep guns out of American citizens hands, but drone this family in the name of freedom!!!! But I digress, plus, if they ever do somehow find a way to take our guns, we will just do what has happen in the UK, carry knives & stab people :-)


[2 Points] None:

the problem isn't guns, it's mental health. try to focus on the real problem. always been guns. always been people.


[2 Points] gunseverywhere:

The deep web has nothing to do with guns. There is no evidence of any successful gun deal in the deep web but many on the clear net and a massive number of deals in the streets everyday. Guns are easy to buy anywhere in the world if there is a market for it, no matter how prohibited it is and how severe the laws are. You are probably located in the UK, people in UK don't have guns just because there is no market, it is not that law enforcement is doing a great job. See the example of South America where laws and culture are similar to Europe and you can even buy war weapons with easy, everybody knows where to look for in the streets. South America just like Europe do not have a self-defense culture as the USA but in contrast to Europe it is underdeveloped with a big number of crime enthusiasts and so a big market for guns. I can't correlate it to the deep web in any way, it is a geek fantasy of those journalists who never been around guns, those how grew up in a beautiful and well-fare-wealthy city of England.

Real criminals meet face to face.


[2 Points] None:

I lurk here. I've never seen any mention of somebody buying guns off the dark web. It's all about the drugs.


[2 Points] winstrol:

Alot people here are missing a key problem. Gun's are very hard to transport over US MAIL(unless the gun is parted and sent in pieces which most idiots who would buy a gun to do something dumb would rather not mess with this). It's basically not worth the profit margins sellers have aswell. Nobody wants to pay $1000 for a gun that only cost $200-300 locally.


[2 Points] dm_noob_:

No, but we can tell you how to get bomb-ass cola next-day-delivery to the Guardian offices.


[2 Points] castratedXenophobe:

From what I've gathered most of these vendor accounts are honeypots. The same with the poisonous drug vendors that pop up from time to time.

It's rare to come across an actual vendor of firearms and you can bet your ass the ATF spend a lot of resources tracking these guys down; so they'll never be around long.


[2 Points] kaaphaat:

Fuck off mr reporter, no one wants you here


[1 Points] None:

Get the fuck out of here.... Why would you buy a gun on the darknet markets. I can pick a gun or TWO from a friend who would basically buy it and sell it to me as a private sell, OR say it was stolen and still sell it to me, not best option but easiest... Other way would just find someone on the streets with one for sale? I bought a 9mm Taurus I think it was when I was 16


[1 Points] tomato_paste:

If you are a journalist, it would be better for your story to talk to a law enforcement officer in any major city, about the proliferation of guns and the ease with which those can be acquired in the black market.

Ever heard of getting guns out of the back of a truck? See any American shows?

Time and Esquire had both articles about that in the last ten years.


[1 Points] None:

BTW.....Here is The Guardian's own story on the future of guns in America. I've included a link from Wired as well :-)

http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/feb/10/cody-wilson-3d-gun-anarchist

http://www.wired.com/2015/06/i-made-an-untraceable-ar-15-ghost-gun/


[1 Points] Chardlz:

So here's my understanding of the situation: there used to be sites that would sell various weapons (sometimes there were sellers who purported that they sold guns but many of these turned out to be scammers) but that's been slowly phased out. I wasn't on the DNMs when the Armory was around but from what I understand it was relatively limited in what was actually sold on there scam or not. I've seen a couple of vendors over the years that offered guns but they generally seemed to just be scammers or some kind of LE trap. A couple sites (most of whom are a marketplace for drugs and fraudulent items) have been removing their weapons listings seeing that they draw more attention to Dark Net Transactions (which is the opposite of what the dark net markets want) and have very few listings to begin with. Doing a quick search I found that there are a couple vendors who do direct and custom deals with decent feedback percentages (meaning they probably aren't scammers and are actually selling guns) but I've never personally bought a gun on the DNMs so I can't give you any specific info.

I've never bought a gun on the internet but my father did once but it had to be sent to a local gun shop to be officially sold to him through a federally licensed firearm dealer. Also, when you write the article would you mind posting it as an edit here? I think it'd be neat to see if the DNM community helped you out at all :P


[1 Points] storytimeppl:

What's your name?


[1 Points] None:

I dont use the DNM's but I frequent all of the darknet related subreddits. The darknet is mostly used for drugs and cp, never seen anything about guns.


[1 Points] superduperburneracct:

"also, are the Amman Bundy thuhll tuhkk urr guhnns types even capable of the kind of web-savvy that shopping on the deep web requires?"

lol, it's really not a difficult thing to do but I don't think these types of people would have a clue.


[1 Points] stormfayn:

In short, no it won't drive more people to buy guns on the deepweb (sic). Mainly because there's no such thing on any public market unless you're either a cartel or a member of a criminal empire who mainly operate outside of the darknet. I'm going to give you a hint, ghost guns.


[1 Points] donjuan75:

saw this a while ago.. https://www.reddit.com/r/DarkNetMarkets/comments/3v7mjj/so_on_a_chinese_dnm_someone_was_selling_a_totally/


[1 Points] None:

[removed]


[1 Points] Eat_The_Muffin:

Nobody actually sells guns on markets, they are just scams and traps


[1 Points] coffeencreme:

Top flair mods, you read my mind when I saw the title.

10/10 would read again.


[1 Points] heroinhighway:

good luck dude they gonna swat that ass


[1 Points] None:

Whats this "deep web" you speak of? theres no such thing.


[1 Points] cmonson74:

He could do just as good for society ending the war on drugs. Go cry about that.


[1 Points] an_illegal_smile:

I missed SR1 but have been around the markets since SR2/Sheep, and I've never seen a vendor listing guns for sale who wasn't either a tweaking idiot that anyone in their right mind would stay away from, or a Fed sting op. The vast majority of people who use the DNMs do it to buy drugs. They don't want to hurt anyone, they just want to get high. Scare pieces about buying guns over the markets just means even more heat down on us "criminals" and our victimless, non-violent "crimes." Please don't.


[1 Points] thatkidjoe2:

wb the vendor Alexandria on alphabay?


[1 Points] The_fire_bird:

Did Armory turn out to be a scam site after all that attention?

Scam? Dunno, but you'll notice that if you go to their onion address.

...wait

...wait

...wait

...wait

Connection timed out. So it would seem like they ain't in business any more.


[1 Points] donjuan75:

supply will always try and meet demand.