Have an idea on how multisig can work seamlessly and become the new standard, if any market wanted to be honest about it

I think TMP originally came up with the idea now that i think about it, they used "escrow agents" that took over the buyers side of things, all the buyer had to do was pick from a list of escrow agents when he bought a listing and send btc to the payment address.

The escrow agents would handle all the extra multisig steps and if there was a dispute or the market went down they would handle it with the market/vendor, so like in the case where the market runs and the vendor is wanting his money then they would have the arbiters email address or reddit contact they could finalize it instead of the current multisig setup where the buyer is supposed to find the vendor somehow and run through a ton of complicated steps.

This will probably hit page 10 in a few minutes since the market operators are going to do whatever they want anyways but if people want multisig to work they will have to make a stink of it when they are given the bastardized multisig these sites usually try to pull over our heads.

Thoughts?


Comments


[3 Points] honestlyimeanreally:

Wait, what's stopping these agents from stealing funds?


[2 Points] None:

But then you have to trust the escrow agent. The whole point of Multi-Sig is so that there is no trust involved with holding coins because 2/3 people need to sign a transaction. If someone else has the private key to the multi-sig address, there is no point to using multi-sig.

Yes, this is better than traditional escrow, but the ultimate multi-sig implementation would be not having to trust anyone. Only problem is getting that implementation to be easy for buyers which no one has been able to do yet (seamless doesn't count).


[2 Points] fun-gee:

Also worth to mention that this can be done completely automatically so the buyer doesn't have to wait for the escrow agent to provide a pub key, because it's derived from the agent's Master Public Key on the fly. So if everything went fine with the transaction (refund or help was not needed), then the agent won't even know that he was part of a transaction other then that he got a cut of it. So it's very convenient for everyone. (BTW the agent can find all the transactions where his keys were used after the transactions already happened so it's possible to check if he gets his cut or not.)


[2 Points] AussieCryptoCurrency:

The escrow agents would handle all the extra multisig steps and if there was a dispute or the market went down they would handle it with the market/vendor,

Escrow implies a trusted party. It must be a trusted party. These escrow agents are who exactly? Other TOR services like the mixers and escrow services which hold the private keys and steal your BTC like with the DNMs?

the market operators are going to do whatever they want anyways but if people want multisig to work they will have to make a stink of it when they are given the bastardized multisig these sites usually try to pull over our heads.

The DNM scene will never implement multisig for a very good reason... because multisig cannot solve the problem. Worse still, people consistently think a slick site == trustworthiness. The exact same exit scam MO has been pulled for 18 months and no one has wised up an iota.

Thoughts?

Also, let's say the admins go AWOL. So there's a 2of3 multisig escrow contract between you and the vendor, with the admins usually arbitrating as deciding vote. Well, they're gone, and you're at a deadlock. So what to do? Assuming you can even contact the vendor, you then have to come to a mutual agreement where one party gets paid the entire escrow (Bitcoin doesn't allow partial Tx outputs) and is trusted to forward the agreed split accordingly. How likely do you think it is that vendors, having lost thousands in an exit scam and their livelihood, are going to sign over that escrow to you? Zilch.

More to consider:

There's no lofty DPR-esque ideals anymore. In fact, DPR turned to the murder hires b/c he couldn't manage the influx of nefarious activity. In that time that influx has inundated everything to the point where the scene is a hive of scum and villainy.


[1 Points] VendorLink:

have a look at openbazar demo http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/30aarb/test_demonstration_of_openbazaar_multisig/

It works pretty much like a normal escrow, the only extra step is to pick a notary(escrow agent) which takes a few secondes and this is built on decentralized network so impossible to shut down, i can't wait !


[1 Points] ShulginsCat:

This is a sound idea and it allows for market-less trading as long as there is a means to communicate between all parties.

Trusting the escrow agent is a major issue, though. Because if the vendor or buyer become irresponsive it's too easy for the escrow agent to "blackmail" the other party, e.g. demand 50% of the money.


[1 Points] JATA13:

multisig is a pipe dream and will never work.


[1 Points] Vendor_BBMC:

Multisig escrow is a sleight of hand distraction. How many vendors got their bitcoin that was in escrow from the day Evolution marketplace started preventing withdrawals to Tuesday17th March when the website was switched off?

All of them? Or nobody?

Bitcoin gets stolen when you let SOMEBODY ELSE hold the public and private keys to a blockchain address containing money which belongs to YOU.

The contents of an escrow are promised to the vendor by the customer. The escrow agent is a third party.

What people forget is that escrow requires a third party to act as an honest broker, when the vendor and the customer disagree. Its going to be a matketplace admin, just like this "escrow agent" will ultimately be approved by the marketplace

THE ESCROW ISN'T THE PROBLEM--IT'S THE CON TRICK KNOWN AS THE "VENDOR'S ONSITE WALLET"

When your drugs arrive in the post and you finalize, the vendor's job is over and he gets paid, right?

WRONG. The bitcoin then goes into another holding area called his onsite "wallet"

To actually GET his bitcoin:-

The site needs to be up.

Then the vendor needs to fire up his TOR laptop, start TOR,

logon to the site,

access his "wallet",

type in his REAL wallet address, how much he wants to withdraw (always "ALL OF IT" - dur), and his PIN.

Unfortunately, its no more a real wallet than Maggie Simpson's toy steering wheel is driving the car. Its Marge who nearly runs Homer over in the garage.

Why can't the escrow contents be automatically withdrawn straight to the vendor's own offsite wallet, rather than the "vendors wallet"?

IT'S THE SITE OWNER PRETENDING TO BE ME. You (the customer) think you are settling up your drug bill with the vendor, but its the website owner stealing all the drug money, or preparing to steal the all the drug money, as well as his 4%

Silk Road (the good one, not the second one) had automated withdrawals - in other words, Ross had ruled out ever wanting to steal from us.

When the dust has settled from Evolution marketplace, The BTVA is going to ask Agora to decide if it might want to steal from us at a future date, or if it wants to unambiguously rule it out

When they commit to automated escrow withdrawals, or continue pretending to be us, we will let you know their decision here on Reddit and we will have a public discussion. It will be open to other marketplace owners, and te first one to commit, in software, not to steal from British vendors can have the UK's online drug trade. With luck, they might offer it to all vendors (we don't have a mandate to negotiate for US vendors, thats a decision for the ATVA)

Agora's owner promised me that he was never going to steal from me, in writing.

Unfortunately, a year has gone by, and he still hasn't made good on his promise, in software. He's still manually having to approve every withdrawal that i make. One day, when I say "can I have my money please" he might say "No"