What camp are you?

There seems to be two camps as far as thought on LE goes. One group will swear that the government knows everything about all of us. The other thinks that the government is completely retarded and has no idea what they are doing. Personally im part of the second. It took them 2 years to google the name "ross ulbricht" and only like 10 vendors out of thousands have been found even when they had the SR server. What group are you?


Comments


[10 Points] None:

I believe that people underestimate how much information they know and overestimate how much they do with it.


[5 Points] rollredsky:

The government has the potential and resource to know everything, but drugs aren't as of a hot topic as before. ISIS and abortion gets more votes.


[3 Points] MiloMinderbinderDNM:

Everyone that uses the internet is in some capacity being monitored by the NSA with programs like xkeyscore. DNM users especially, since by using TOR browser your data is now considered international communications. With recent reports of the FBI wanting permission to log and or hack into users of VPN's and Tor, if you think you aren't being watched, aren't on some sort of list, etc. then you need to reconsider your logic.

What makes you think the amount of caught vendors is so low? The government can seal indictments, offer pleas, etc. There are many more busted buyers and vendors than get reported. LEO seems to keep most of them quiet and then uses the accounts for controlled deliveries.

If you believe they found Ross Ulbricht using Google, then I have a term for you to Google called "parallel construction" and a bridge in Brooklyn for sale.


[3 Points] siaohfduhfasd:

It's not always so simple to be on one side or the other. LE has the capability to monitor us all for using tor. When they need a bust they make it. Otherwise they just sit back and collect data. If they want you they will get you unless your opsec is the tightest.

The more you are involved the more you need to protect yourself. Anybody that says LE is retarded should look themselves in the mirror. There are many intelligent LE they just have a different set of morals than us miscreants. Sadly our world is stuck in the mentality that there is always a right and wrong.

Poor LE just wants us to live in their perception of the way the world should work.

Sorry got on a rant there.


[2 Points] don_crackavelli:

I am in group 2 but the govt is not to be fucked with. If they are provoked they suddenly gain some intelligence.


[2 Points] Kayubin:

Not a matter of the LE's efficiency, it's a matter of volume. I don't use the DNM, I just like reading this sub because there's so much tinfoil going on -- but i've used tor, I'm on a list.

So are hundreds of people. Academics, hobbyists, etc. I've also bought ~3000$ in bitcoin, not to use on the DNM, but as an investment, it's all sitting in a blockchain waiting for the day a big player enters the scene and bitcoin spikes again (might be a year from now, but it'll happen.) I'm probably on a list for that. So are thousands of other people.

Now to prove one of you bought something off the DNM, they have to get a.) determine you are moving enough volume to warrant their bust (some dude orders an eigth a week? they spend the time and manpower to bust him and what? proceed to spend god knows how much to shove them in an already overcrowded prison and probably end up paying more to keep him fed in there every year than he'd spend on weed in ten.

To bust someone they have to determine they're likely buying packs, get a warrant to intercept their pack, hope the one they intercept has goodies in it, then proceed to intercept his mail, check it, and reship it for the next month to build a case (one pack isn't enough, if I buy a ounce of weed and ship it to that douche I hate down the street with shitty stealth, they can't go kick down his door, because he didn't order it, and he's likely to throw it away the moment he realizes what it is, any lawyer worth his salt is getting out of that -- they need proof that he's doing it consistantly), then arrest him, and somehow hope he hasn't used whatever he bought or hope the evidence of "we found it in his mail!" holds up (a good lawyer can talk you out of a charge without physical evidence.)

That's a LOT of hours, a LOT of warrants, and a LOT of effort to bust some dude buying an eigth every week for himself. or hell an ounce every couple weeks for himself.

Now the dudes ordering 50g of MDMA and reselling it? Banks start noticing 4-5k missing from their account and just as much going back in, cops get called. on tor list? check. Money going to bitcoin? check. Investigation started.

Big fish. The govt/LE has all the data they need to bust every one on this sub i'm sure, but 80% of this subreddit is too small of a fish to be worth the LE's time. People mention nod, same dealio, bust someone low in the chain, use them to crawl the chain, let the "minnow" off easy.

Vendors have to worry. Bulk buyers who resell on the street have to worry, most people? It's unfortunate if ytou get caught, but you don't have Agent Booth flipping through your phone records looking for that magic clue to bust you, if you get caught, it's probably because your vendors stealth sucked, or your bank reported suspicious account activity.


[2 Points] AgoraMarket:

The latter group; the paranoia on this sub really is a bit much at times.

There are people buying a gram of MDMA who think that it's going to prompt the next multi-million dollar investigation against them, as if they're the next incarnation of Ross Ulbricht himself. Reality is, the DNMs are a very small minority of drug-related business in the United States. And for the most part, no one cares about your piddling purchase of weed or Xanax. And even if they did care, just shut your mouth and always ask for a lawyer if anyone comes calling.

Ross made more OPSEC mistakes than a 15-year-old script kiddie, in hindsight. Yet, it still took almost 3 years to find him, and had he managed to simply shut down his laptop (or just not operated in public to begin with), a huge percentage of the case against him would have evaporated.

Sometimes I think the gov't is mopping up so much data that it all becomes a meaningless "mush", instead of precision targetting of people.


[1 Points] select1on:

I think people that underestimate law enforcement are playing with fire while standing in a pool of petrol. Why risk it? why be lax with your personal freedom, your property and your life.


[1 Points] M-ufrombb:

Usually the latter, but...don't ever misunderestimate the US fed when it comes to data retention and analysis. May look retarded as FEMA in 06, but they're just getting warmed up.


[1 Points] DickClarkFive:

The reality is in the middle. There is a difference, that many don't seem to be able to comprehend, between being "on a list," or having your data sucked up by the NSA, FBI, CIA etc.. and being monitored.

The major governments of the world have the technical ability to basically suck up and store and monitor all electronic communications. These are teh kind of things Snowden is spilling. The technological abilities.

But, actually being "monitored", that's different. The amount of people they are actively watching and reacting to their data stream, that's a much smaller group. Google takes more notice of what the average joe does on a day to day basis than world governments. You're ISP has access to every unencrypted bit of data that leaves you're device, but that doesn't mean there is a guy actually looking at everyone's activity.

They have the technology to gather the electronic communications of everyone on the planet. But they don't have enough people to actually pay attention to what everyone is doing. So, resources for actually "monitoring" people are much more focused. People interchange gathering data and actively monitoring individuals like it's the same thing. It's not. They have the technology to gather everything, but not enough people to actually read, review and interpret everything.

So, the spooks are mostly focused on terrorists, large arms traffickers, other governments and big time drug dealing when they have the time. Things like taking down markets, operation Onyomys. Chances are if the average joe vendor or buyer gets busted, its via package interception and postal inspectors, not the NSA.


[1 Points] None:

Neither. I'm somewhere in the middle. I'm not paranoid about how much GCHQ are spying on me but I think it is unwise and naive to believe LE are stupid. Like everything else their time is limited so they prioritise. You can thank terrorism that drugs have become less of a priority. God bless the jihads.


[1 Points] Voldewarts:

The government has an endless pit of money to throw at any problem, and the manpower to go along with it, they definitely are aware of us. We're posting on a fairly popular subreddit about drugs, for christ sake.

On the other hand at the local level, when it comes down to each individual man and the shitfest of red tape and bureaucratic processes, not much actually gets done.