Life as a Vendor.

I know that I'm probably going to catch a lot of shit for this. But here it goes anyways. I've dealt with 100's of customers at this point, and many of you are just awesome. Patient, knowledgeable, experienced, kind, and generous. Some of you.. not so much. And that's okay too, but I thought a little insight into life as a vendor would help the community understand Vendors a little better.

We are not Amazon or Zappos. Yes. We are a business, and by taking orders and accepting payments, we take on the responsibility of behaving like a legit business, however there are certain things about our specific industry that require(and justify) a little leeway.

We are operating an ILLEGAL business. Because of this fact, certain standards that you(the consumer) have developed from working with/purchasing from LEGAL businesses, don't exactly hold true.

The first place I'd start is this. Most of the markets we use aren't built by development companies. They load slowly. Their UI is often poorly designed. It isn't some custom built interface that makes life easy. If a site sucks(like blackbank and nucleus do...) the load time can be 20 seconds. Let's say I have to look at 50 orders in a day, along wtih another 50 messages.(and then reply to all 50 messages). that is 150 pages I have to load. at 20 seconds a page, that's 3000 seconds total. I'm spending 50 minutes a day just waiting on pages to load! Amazon's orders, once placed, are directly routed to the warehouse, where the product is already packed/ready. It is picked off a shelf, a label is automatically printed, and bam. Fedex is there are 4 o'clock to pick it up and ship it. VENDING IS NOTHING LIKE THIS!!!

In order to ship drugs via the mail, one has to purchase supplies. We need bags, sealers, gloves, stamps, shipping labels, envelopes, packages, etc. These items can't be purchased online, delivered to our home, or anything that could potentially involve a paper trail. All of these things have to be sourced discreetly, and in the event we run low on something, we can't just go replace it instantly. Keeping track of all of the inventory for both supplies, and products, can be challenging at times.

We can't post an ad on Craigslist or Monster to hire help. Hiring help involves assessing the risk the employee is taking on, and finding someone who will A: take that risk for a salary that is feasible, as well as B: (hopefully) not rat on the business in the event the risk catches up with them. It's not easy to find people you trust, people you are comfortable exposing to certain levels of risk, as well as people who are intelligent enough/reliable enough to do a quality job with whatever the task is.

When orders are packed, and need to be shipped, Vendors can not just schedule a pickup with USPS. In our particular circumstance, we have mapped out every PO in a 90 mile radius. We schedule our delivery people to pick one at random, in a different direction than was used the day prior, and have them drive there. Once there, the delivery person has to park a ways away, walk/ride to the PO, make the drop, get back to their vehicle, and amke the 90 minute ride home. That's a good 4 hours per day. (assuming they only have to hit 1-2 PO's. )

Packing product with multiple layers of vac seal/mbb is VERY time consuming. Cutting bags, weighing product, letting the sealer cool between seals/layers, etc. All of this requires time. It doesn't just happen instantly.

Responding to messages takes time. A message comes in. The vendor then needs to search through their spreadsheet/orders, find the order, cross reference the address, verify the tracking number(often by way of using a separate computer/wifi connection), and then respond. This is not an instantaneous process.

Most vendors receive messages on at least two markets, as well as on reddit, to their email, their jabber, and possibly other locations. A busy/popular vendor can easily send/receive several hundred messages a day. (I konw we do). This is also time consuming.

Mistakes happen. Orders get shipped in incorrect amounts. Orders get lost on occasion and not shipped at all. A vendor who ships 200 orders a week, and does so with a 98% perfection rate, will still have at least 4 orders per week experience some kind of hiccup. Now there is no excuse for any error that puts the customer's safety in question. I would never attempt to justify such behavior. BUT order quantity being slightly off, an order not getting shipped on occasion, etc. IT HAPPENS. Please politely contact the vendor, and ask them what they intend to do about it. I know that our personal policy is to ship ASAP, and include some extra to offset our mistake.

Just my two cents. Let the shit talking begin. Haters, go ahead and hate. The rest of you, please take some of this into account when interacting with your vendor. thanks


Comments


[62 Points] -TheMadDabber-:

New vendor here, take this with a grain of salt.

This is a decent look into a vendors day to day. I can appreciate someone trying to get vendors some slack (speaking as a consumer whos worked with vendors), however, I believe the reasons vendors make so many mistakes and experience delays is not because we operate within the world of DNM's; the reality is most vendors just don't have any idea how to effectively and efficiently run a business, and have had little to no experience doing so in any sort of meaningful way before getting into vending. I would go as far as to guess most dont even have any meaningful real world professional experience. For someone to choose to get heavily into vending is doing so because its going to be a vertical move up the socioeconomic ladder for them. That being the case, its unrealistic to expect someone to step into an unfamiliar environment (running an online business) and meet expectations that they've never been faced with previously, DNM or not. More or less, the ones that run into so many of these issues, are likely the ones who bit off more than they can chew.

From perusing around how various vendors go about running their online "business" (between their profile page, official review threads, their public persona, how they advertise, etc), I get the impression most vendors are users of their respective products that also just happen to have access to some sort of supply-- any sort of business acumen is just a bonus. I think most vendors dive in head first and I would guess many of the succesful vendors are the ones that were able to succesfully endure the trial by fire, before figuring out how to run their business.

Also, more of an aside, I think you do your over arching point injustice when you choose to write words in all caps rather than articulating your argument. The points of where and how you choose to do it comes off kind of insulting to your target audience. For example, where you choose to highlight that vendors operate in an illegal dealings rather than legal....cmon now.

Anyway, just my 2 cents and good topic to get the community discussing!


[25 Points] HonkySpaceship:

It is picked off a shelf, a label is automatically printed, and bam. Fedex is there are 4 o'clock to pick it up and ship it. VENDING IS NOTHING LIKE THIS!!!

I vended for a little while (less than a month bc my irl job became more demanding and made me more money) and can say that if you are organized, vending is pretty close to this.

Have product. Package in increments wished to be sold. Put up exact number of listings. Once address is received, print, take pack off shelf and move to usps blue box.

Good service is about hard work and knowing what you can handle.

Getting shipping supplies and not running out should go right with knowing what you can handle.

Keeping track of all of the inventory for both supplies, and products, can be challenging at times.

Not if you are organized and in this game, being organized IS operational security.

Being a popular vendor is a full time job, why would you expect not to work 8-10 hour days?

Being a drug dealer is one of the easiest professions but it's easy to get caught. Being a vendor on the darknet is slightly more difficult and waaaaaay harder to get caught. But if you put in the work, the money should ease your bitching


[16 Points] ShulginsCat:

TLDR treat your vendor like you would treat your buddy. Respect breeds respect.


[12 Points] None:

/u/Grandwizardslair is a very popular vendor and every time I've placed an order with him it's been shipped out promptly, and arrived within about 4 days with no need to commmunicate.

Maybe not the same as your situation but he's a good example of how to vend


[9 Points] psilocybin-mushrooms:

Thank you for posting this. I think you made a few excellent points, though I don't see much value in the ranty bits and disagree that all of these things are inevitable.

It sounds like your operation is not as efficient as it could be.

Packaging products, preparing shipping labels and postage, and actually shipping items are tasks that should be completed separately and in bulk.

You make 5000 bags over a weekend, then you don't make bags for months. You use printed USPS labels with an efficient process, or you spend a week buying 5000 units worth of stamps and then build a huge spreadsheet of local return addresses and their zip codes, and automate the process of picking and burning addresses for each shipment. You prep your orders each day by just running labels and sticking them on the appropriate prepackaged unit, and sticking it in the appropriate bin for when you do your shipping runs.

For example, anyway. There are many ways to run this kind of business. It's no Amazon, but it can still be very efficient.

If you streamline your customer service approach, marketing and policy text, and shipping methods, you can eliminate most direct communication. Messages are a bitch, because of load times. This is a very important point, and has no solution except to avoid processes that require messaging. That's ok, because direct communication is rarely necessary if your customer service is strong. Like you said, maybe 4 orders a week have a real problem that requires messaging. The rest of your customers should not need to message you at all, and you have to let them know that.

I doubt that many vendors go into vending with the skill set and knowledge that would allow them to run an efficient illegal drug mail order business. Seeing how quickly vendors come and go, I doubt many ever acquire the necessary skills to do this right. But some do, and many have shown that it can be done very well. We can all learn from each other if we like.

Thanks again for the post. It's very good to open dialogue between customers and vendors, and among vendors, too.


[8 Points] MDPV_:

Yo thanks!


[6 Points] deluser:

Interesting post, thanks for the contribution, however letting us know that ship from all P.O. boxes within X radius of you isn't the best idea. Not that it gives away a lot of info but it is info you should force people to gather on their own if they want to profile you. Maybe you've given a false number in which case good job, if you haven't I'd recommend altering it. Some other commentors have already given good suggestions on how you can improve your shipping as well, it wouldn't be a bad idea to read this thread carefully and consider some of their ideas.


[5 Points] _GordonBombay:

The solution is pretty simple: don't be greedy and take on more orders than you can handle. Go on vacation in between batches to control your supply chain. Vendors drown in bargain offers and underestimate how long it takes to pack and ship.

I used to vend on SR1 and it sucked, lots of hours for lots of stress and selling BTC means you'll meet every weirdo in your city. Customers can be shitty also it is astonishing how many people didn't PGP.


[4 Points] None:

[deleted]


[3 Points] danknet_:

I'm finding it very interesting imagining how many different people had a hand in the nice packages in my mailbox. Guess I never thought about it before because for us it's a small process, but it's cool to imagine the level of infrastructure you guys have


[3 Points] ciphersexual:

I've noticed that vendors tend to have different attitudes based on the size of their operations. There are some small-time vendors who love to receive and send messages, for example. A "thank you" can even brighten their day.

Roughly how many orders do you do per day? I'm guessing that any nonessential message is a PITA at your volume.


[3 Points] AmAGrower:

So you want people to keep that in mind when you make a mistake? It almost sounds as though you are in a little out of your depth, if organization, time management, and inventory tracking is really an issue.. Being in a med state I see this all the time. People want to ride on the wave of the next big thing to boost their income only to find they lack the skill set to be successful, or find that they had underestimated what is involved in being successful in that field. When I made the decision to start growing it was a process that took a year just to study, plan, save, and finally I was ready to start. Six months later I resigned from my job and was full time with the growing. Prior to actually becoming a successful grower I had experience in marketing, sales (white/black market,) electrical, carpentry, construction, engineering and project management. Transitioning into growing despite it being demanding in time and resources was pretty simply, but that is because I plan down to the smallest detail, eliminate variables, and applied large scale commercial project management experience to it. I wish you all the best, but on the very off chance that I fuck up that is on me, I don't expect my customers to be understanding about the day to day complexities of running a 5000sq pp, nor would I expect them to be understanding or take it easy on me. Learn to operate at the capacity that you can without compromising QoS. It is not rocket science to log inventory, plan ahead, and weigh out bags of weed. I had that shit down at 14. Sorry for the rant, and this is not directed at you but I just really dislike incompetence, I've never had patience for it and I see a good amount of that with dnm vendors. amazon is killing it, that is because they know their shit, and resolve issues with customers immediately.. It doesn't matter if the customer came at them like a savage dope fiend,amazon makes it right..


[3 Points] Vendor_BBMC:

Being a vendor isn't much different to working in an office, where you answer emails and take orders all day, or selling things on ebay for a living. Onion sites ARE slow, as you will have noticed when ordering for us.

You're probably thinking "how hard can it be to take something out of a big bag, put it into a smaller bag and post it the same day?"

The answer, unfortunately, is "too hard for many vendors". I'm not going to make a big thing out of it, because its a piece of cake. Thats the easy bit, and most of you wouldn't count it as work.

For me, the hard part is making the drugs I sell, either myself or another chemist, solving every problem needed to get all of the chemicals and equipment together in the same place at the same time, with somebody who knows what to do with them.

The real hard part of being a darknet vendor is the social isolation. There are no "water cooler moments" at work where you discuss last night's TV, friends aren't completely excluded, but its easier if friends become aquaintnces, then gradually forget you. You may not talk to another person face-to-face from one day to the next, and spend every xmas, new years eve and birthday alone and working to some extent. You work from home, which isn't REALLY work. But you NEVER have a day completely off.

Most vendors and market owners crack up at around the 4 month-point, suffering from "TOR fatigue", the constant fear, rumours, speculation and gossip of forums gets to you. Extortion attempts, blackmail, the nothing-is-out-of-bounds psychopaths better known as your fellow vendors, all take their toll on your sanity until you adjust your eyes to the darknet.

The only saving grace is the customers, who are knowledgeable, organized, and haven't sold their laptop for drugs. If a customer tries to swindle you, its no more than once a year at most. All your trouble comes from other vendors.

Eventually you just relax and your sense of perspective returns, but you are instantly alerted by anything "NQR" ("not quite right") when communicating with somebody.

Humans are social animals. We are the first generation who have attempted to spend all day trading and working with people we will never meet, see, or hear. You can be the greatest drug-dealer in real life, but fail completely in an anonymous environment.


[3 Points] roundclock:

Even most shitty dealers at least know how to work the features of the markets from which they vend from. Not take an order that you know you're not going to fill and then hold the buyer's coin hostage for a week


[3 Points] loadsofshite:

it doesn't sound like you enjoy it very much


[4 Points] DareToHope:

When I saw this thread I genuinely was hoping for the first line to start off with

"Now, this is a story all about how My life got flipped-turned upside down And I'd like to take a minute Just sit right there I'll tell you how I became the prince of a town called Bel Air"

except a DNM version....

I was pleasantly surprised to read this tho. +1


[2 Points] sobulbous:

Why not pre package orders before you put listings up?


[3 Points] MLP_is_my_OPSEC:

Damn that was a good write up, thanks for doing this.


[2 Points] Meditated:

I'll say that Vendors on DNM, at least the large one, are cut from a different cloth.

This is a throwaway, my operation is fairly large, not as large as described. I find myself applying 'tricks' from my previous professional experience. That is the use excel spreadsheets extensively to do various task from shipping logs w/ tracking, cash inflow and outflow, drop boxes, packaging those orders, which orders are designated to which blue box, cross market inventory logs, etc... Thats just the logistical aspects.

The financial aspects are a little more tricky revenue modeling, coin inflow, coin outflow, cash inflow, cash outflow, margins, accounts being managed, maintaining relatively low balances to not set off flags, declaring taxes, shell corps, etc...

The point I'm trying to make is if competently used with the tools at our disposal, I personally have been able to streamline the process enough to still find my self 'keeping things moving' relatively well.

For example. I'll prepackage the inventory as soon as possible, log it, price I paid for it, the market price for it, desired margin in one day. Stamped and all. Basically ready to go. I do this personally because, somethings are best done if you see to it yourself. Broadcast them.

As orders come in price purchased, price sold, realized margin will be logged. Separately an already set up spreadsheet with tracking number already input into a column along side it go shipping address, username, blue box it will be dropped at and driver dropping it. I check my account once. I'm online open all appropriate tabs of orders. Then I'm offline. Done. Send to print label and pass to designated driver. Maybe an hour after initial invested time to prepare really really helps me.


[2 Points] stoopidsensi:

Lol, this dude sells nuerotoxic poop soup. Nothing will change steer away from this clown


[1 Points] Delta9MethylTryptami:

Hey chroncentrates glad you took the time to write this up. As someone who loves selling and doing drugs I think it's important to bridge the gap between consumer and vendor. If everyone would go through as much opsec as most vendors way less people would get busted.


[1 Points] Hank_Vendor:

OP is spot on. I fucking hate having to buy materials.


[1 Points] None:

Sounds like it couldn't possibly be worth it.


[1 Points] noonehear:

I don't hate you but you lied to me numerous times about when a package was reshipped.

Also the address was burned because the envelope was slit open on the bottom in a perfectly straight line and retaped. Had you shipped properly it all should have come at once not making the 2nd shipment necessary.

You chose vending as a job. Either get it right or stop vending and do something else for income.

Anyone think its funny that chroncentrates is the first vendor to ever have to post an essay on "how hard it is to be a vendor?"


[1 Points] SIDKITTEH:

waaah........;P


[1 Points] sillysally11:

We? I always just assumed there was one of you, or at least I'd hope so, otherwise, it's even more crazy how badly you've messed up so many people's orders.


[1 Points] sniffinforbacon:

LE is creaming their pants on this post


[0 Points] vendordnmthrowaway:

vendor here - can confirm that it's rough at times but we are running a business and we knew exactly what we signed up for. That said, the biggest thing is do not treat your vendor like they fucking owe you something. I just had a customer today tell me he deserves freebies because he's ordered from me four times and left a review on CRU. Fuck off. I've had another customer today ask me if I'll ship express as a "one time exception" despite the fact that it's capitalized all over my profile that I won't ship express. Same thing with custom orders, asking for different payment methods... Bitch, I don't need your business. Stop asking me to bend over backwards and stop asking like you deserve something more simply for buying drugs from me. /rant


[0 Points] koncernedcitizen420:

https://www.reddit.com/r/DarkNetMarkets/comments/3b7zi0/chroncentrates_05s_is_this_guy_ok_to_buy_from/?sort=new

u/chroncentrates


[-1 Points] redeemer21:

Chron is the best


[-1 Points] EmmaGoldmenco0p:

We are operating an ILLEGAL business. Because of this fact, certain standards that you(the consumer) have developed from working with/purchasing from LEGAL businesses, don't exactly hold true.

i cant even remember how many times i have had to tell someone we are not walmart nor ebay . I Once had a buyer message me saying the product was a bit to strong and to refund them and send a less powerful product .. Shocking how people can be so dense


[-4 Points] _florida_man:

This is the wrong way to look at it. If you're a vendor with the volume you describe your income should be in the solid six figure range (unless you're doing something wrong.) That money isn't free money, part of it is payment for the work you will inevitably have to do in the form of customer service.

What you're describing here sounds like an unkempt store with a grouchy troll behind the counter.

You should fix your mindset.


[-2 Points] sketchyblackman:

Stop fucking complaining like a little bitch. You make money EZ PZ just by selling drugs and working like however you choose to and whenever you like to. The rest of us have a job we have to drag our ass early in the morning and deal with all the bullshits and at the end only make 10 dollars an hour you fucking asshat.


[-6 Points] None:

[deleted]