[CommunityDiscussion] Why do people insist on telling others to accept potential CDs?

I see this all the time here. Someone is anticipating a potential CD (admittedly in some cases it is more likely than others) and people tell them to "man up and just accept the package" or "refusing a package is more suspicious than just accepting it"

Yes it is true that most people would never refuse a package and it is a weird thing to do, but this is absolutely awful advice. CDs work based on conditional search warrants. If you don't know what that means there is an explanation here:

http://www.tmcec.com/public/files/File/Course%20Materials/FY11/Judges/search-warrants/powerpoint.pdf

Basically it boils down to the fact that you accepting a package that is known to contain an illicit substance into your residence is probable cause to get a warrant issued to search your residence. The police can't exactly wait for you to take the package before going to a judge to get a warrant since these things take some time and they don't want to give you any time to get rid of/stash things, so they get the warrant beforehand, but can only execute it on the condition that you accept the package.

If you haven't figured it out by now, what that means is that the police can have a warrant to search your residence but are only allowed to execute the raid IF you take the package into your possession. If you refuse a package, the conditions for the warrant will not be met and they will not be able to search your residence.

YES they can still attempt to harass you into giving them permission to enter (you should know by now to shut the fuck up and don't say anything or let them in)

YES there is still a chance that they can go back to the judge and potentially get a non conditional warrant, but there is a pretty good chance they won't get it unless they have some other evidence.

YES it is suspicious to refuse a package, and by doing so you will probably burn your address as well as the vendor's return address for that order (ALWAYS LET YOUR VENDOR KNOW IF THIS EVER HAPPENS SO THEY CAN CHANGE THEIR STEALTH)

YES many times suspected CDs turn out being nothing

But hell, willingly accepting a CD is essentially willingly letting the police into your home. If I had any reason to suspect that I was going to be the recipient of a CD there is no way I would ever just play along with it.

I'll end with some advice (take this with a grain of salt of course, as you should with any advice from this subreddit):

Pay attention to who your mailmain is and what their normal schedule is like. Order (legal) things from various places and see how long they take to get to you. Get used to what is normal so you can recognize it when things are off.

Never sign for a package containing an illicit substance. By now, no vendors should be using shipping methods that require a signature. CDs don't always require a signature so this definitely isn't going to save you completely, but it's a good rule to follow.

If a package ever goes missing or if you refuse a package, consider your address burned.

MOST IMPORTANTLY, keep a clean house whenever you order if possible, and definitely if you suspect a CD. If there is nothing in your home for the police to find, there is nothing they can do.

I've seen a lot of sloppy advice and behavior throughout this sub and I really think it's bad for the community. Yes many times things turn out to be nothing but how much do you value your freedom? Those who get comfortable are the ones who get caught.

Stay safe


Comments


[16 Points] jadedsynk:

Why do people insist on telling others to accept potential CDs?

Because they are fucking idiots with little clue as to how any of this works. Majority of the people here have never even made a purchase and are just talking out of their ass.


[6 Points] Vendor_BBMC:

Assuming the return address is false, it will be opened in the dead letter office and the drugs will be found, with your name and address on the front.

Have you personally, in all of your life, refused an item of mail?

No talking about the mail will make you a better recipient. It arrives whether you're in or not.

Even a box can get mail without overthinking and fucking it up in the only way possible.

Don't order drugs by mail order if you're stupider than a box.


[4 Points] Major_Trippy:

There is so much FUD going around regarding this topic, I would appreciate some people more knowledgeable than I to clarify some things for me. At first I thought a CD required you to sign for the package and a refusal to sign for the package might help you avoid the CD. This makes less sense however because even on express packs almost every vendor waives the signature.

Then I read a whole post saying how it doesn't actually matter if you sign for the package....all that matters is if you take possession of the package (i.e. take it from your mailbox into your house).

From the knowledge I have gleaned, the "bust" that would accompany a CD would happen immediately or within minutes of you taking control of the package so would leaving the package unopened on your counter for a little while be beneficial at all? Also would writing things such as "return to sender" on said package help your deniability at all?

Lastly, if you suspect a package in your mailbox to be a CD (i.e. cops waiting for you to take it) will leaving it untouched in your mailbox for a couple days help you out at all? Cops only have so much man power so how long are they gonna pay officers to watch your drop before they decide the work isn't worth the bust?

BTW I am a veteran of the DNM's...still remembering the good old SR1 days so I am by no means a noob to the scene......it just seems impossible to get law accurate information around here with everyone contradicting one another and having it devolve into a pissing match rather than a beneficial debate. It also doesn't help that users posting here are from all around the country which possibly means slightly different laws per region (or am I wrong on that as well since USPS is a federal institution meaning laws are exactly the same across all states)?

Any and all clarification would be helpful. I for one think the average DNM user takes OPSEC way less seriously than they ought to. Knowledge is power and knowledge in that split second situation can mean the difference between criminal charges and plausible deniability.


[3 Points] None:

Is there any difference if someone else who resides at the same address accepts the package? Where I come from unless the package is sent to be signed for by the recipient specifically(ID required on delivery option) than anyone in the house can accept the package. Can a CD warrant be served if another resident of the same address accepts/signs for it?


[2 Points] rappercake:

Who is recommending that you accept a potential CD? Learning some things to help spot a potential CD (not your usual post-person, them asking you to sign and you refusing then they try to give you the pack anyway, really trying to push the pack onto you when all you are expecting is a DNM pack, etc.) and NOT TAKING POSSESSION OF THE PACKAGE AT ALL during what you suspect to be a CD is like one of the most basic OPSEC practices.

If they're doing a CD, they'll have an anticipatory search warrant, and taking possession of the package then bringing it inside (or just taking possession potentially) makes the warrant valid in most cases involving a CD, then the cops come from where they were nearby and tell you to open up because they have a warrant.

If you really suspect a CD, cut the conversation with the postal inspector to a "return to sender please" and go back inside ASAP and ignore everything they do after that. If the cops could be searching your house they'd be doing it already, not wasting time trying to get you to take a package. This might piss off the cops that were waiting and you'd definitely get investigated afterwards, but you would be safe for the moment and could hopefully clean house before they can make another move.


[2 Points] None:

quality post


[1 Points] swagmaster4204204200:

So what are you saying? Every time there is a missed package and notice to pick up your drugs you just don't go? Thereby sending drugs to a fake return address and then having your name pop up with drugs in them?

In theory if you could keep rotating addresses every single time you miss a package it would work (or are you refusing anything you have to sign even if you're there LOL?) If you keep a clean house taking possession of the package won't matter, it only means they get to execute a warrant. Have all your shit encrypted or on tails and a good lawyer will have everything thrown out.

It's always the stupidest who call others out for being stupid


[1 Points] Theeconomist1:

I get what you are saying. Unfortunately if you get to the point of a CD, its time to accept that and think for the long game. I'm not at all saying to make it easy on them, not at all. But if they've assembled a team to kick in your door, that door will probably get kicked in, one way or another.

In many ways, its a probability matrix/graph. Coupled with the fact that often you will be wrong WAY MORE than right when predicting a CD. If we say that a CD happens in say 1% of cases (which this number is way too high), and 99% it isn't. One could say the probability shifts as you gather more information, which is very true, but my belief is that people are crappy predictors of this sort of thing so unless you are getting tipped off, my guess is you won't know. And the times you are suspicious, how many times do we see it here, and nothing happens. So if we say that 1% are CDs, if you refuse the package, this is a worse strategy IMO. Mainly b/c we know what happens when you do that. LE will almost certainly, with near 100% probability, get involved if you refuse and its returned to sender. In fact, I've read quite a few articles in the last few months about drugs in the mail getting popped. With a few exceptions, almost all were b/c it was returned to sender for one reason or another. Some random dude gets the pack, contacts the police. And they'll be investigating, including the name on the pack. So I guess what I'm saying, if you were an emotionless computer with artificial intelligence following game theory, I think it would never "return to sender" or refuse the pack. Just my opinion. I know no more or less than other members here. Each of us are obligated to our own personal safety and we have to make decisions that affect that. If you feel a certain way, most definitely act in the way you believe is the right way. I'd say that to each person here, my advice is just advice. I don't claim to know for sure. I give information, as we all do, and each person takes that info and decides for themselves what the right approach is. I will admit signing for shit is terrifying. Its happened on 1 occasion a while back. I don't know why it happened with this particular pack. My only explanation was that I did have a legit package that came in that required a signature (which I forgot about at the time) and my only guess is they just held both packages for whatever reason. It was when I was fairly new to the game and so figured my DNM activities would be cut short.

A CD is not the worst thing that can happen. A guilty verdict is. A CD would just be the beginning. None of us want it b/c that is a very expensive and shitty event and what follows will suck up your life. Obviously if you are somehow very certain that you are getting a CD, then yes, it makes no sense to accept. My argument is that all of us are shitty predictors of when that happens. We all have to act as if this could happen with any order. If you fail to keep a clean house, it'll be trouble. The pack may be the least of your concerns in this case. What you say makes sense IF you know or are fairly certain that a CD is going down. I argue that we won't know with any appreciable accuracy. We won't change the overall stats b/c given the shit we do, we act on poor information and too much emotion is involved.

The only advice I have is to be prepared. Have a lawyer ready or at least selected. Know your rights. And keep a clean house/drop while a pack is in transit.


[1 Points] FriendlySpawn:

If you have your house clear, do you also need to clean up your computer so there is no trace of DNM (PGP, Tor, Etc). Or is it ok to keep it on your HDD because they don't have enough to search your computer? Is it only going through physical things?


[1 Points] throwahooawayyfoe:

Tell you what. Instead of a whole bunch of armchair enthusiasts arguing about this, why don't we get a real lawyer involved and ask him what he thinks?

I summon /u/NCLawyer to the thread.


[1 Points] agorathrow8080:

Just a counter point...i didnt see it i skipped some... i see plenty of articles of busts, where they let you accept the package then just wait for you to leave the house with it.

This usually shows in large weed orders, at least from news sources, they dont want just the guy getting it, but where its going. Usually they already have you scouted, then just wait to see the rest of the chain.

I have only seen it in news articles, im sure i can find one...so even a cd may not be a cd depending on what they know

Cops are not as dumb as everyone thinks. Always rember that


[0 Points] dnmthrowaway4765:

Actually, just accepting and signing isn't enough (I don't feel like looking up the cases where that was done and the judge threw it out, but google is a good friend of ours, hit that nigga up)--if you accept it then don't open it you have an easy out. Waiting to open it is a classic and easy maneuver if a CD is suspected, as almost all CDs will happen with a device implanted in the package so as to alert the authorities to you opening the package.

That said, if you suspect your address/identity is burned, or even have proof, and accept further packages from people who "aren't your normal mailman" etc etc, you're an idiot.