[CommunityDiscussion] The DarkNetMarkets - Drugs vs. Fraud - Lets settle this once and for all

Hey all

I have been on the DNM reddit for quite some time now. I noticed that there is a general consensus when it comes to Drug activity vs Fraud activity. Apparently, drug activity is accepted and is not morally wrong ("because we the people have the freedom and right to consume what we want.. etc") and Fraud activity is kind of the opposite ("because defrauding is bad and people lose money and blah blah blah"). I will argue these points and my whole goal in this discussion is to open some of these druggy's minds so they can stop being so ignorant.

First off we have people like this guy /u/adam2222 posting this.

-Fraud VS Drugs- * Why is fraud wrong on the DNM? You people do know that the only people actually losing money are the billion dollar corporations that enslave millions of people by charging ridiculous interest rates. You can read about this here. * Drugs are either consumed, resold, or gifted (getting people high for own amusement). I PERSONALLY have been a victim of being "gifted" some shrooms. If you want to argue that they are only consumed, well then you are consuming the one thing that can really change you and who you are as a person (i was on some drugs in the past). Drug activity is one of the leading reasons gangs even form. They are the leading reason why 50,000 people have died from ONE town in Mexico. It's insane! * It can be argued that Fraud is actually better than drugs.. At least we aren't drowning our selves in some drug we bought on the dark net getting fucked up beyond imagination. No one personally is losing anything. Only multi-billion dollar corporations that pay their employees .00000000000000000000000001% of what their stores/credit card company/bank makes. It is called MODERN DAY SLAVERY.

Overall I think we need everyone to just stop hating on fraud and acting like it's the worst crime ever. Trust me its a lot better than that coke you just sold to 15 year old who is now and forever going to be hooked and probably will end up ruining his life over it.


Comments


[6 Points] lolnymous:

eh, do we really need this drama again?


[5 Points] 666fun:

You're approaching this the wrong way;

The argument that ""druggies" put forward is that thw drug laws as they exist now, shouldn't be on the books at all, that by doing drugs, the only "victim" that's created is the user themselves, and the majority of the associated risks are due to the illegality itself.

Likewise there are movements in the US to decriminalize and eventually legalize many or all currently contriolled substances, and there are countries that have done so to varying degrees already.

Fraud is just fraud. Rightfully illegal, never won't be. You get caught and in trouble for defrauding someone, I don't think you'll see any sizable segment if the population supporting you due to being attacked by unjust laws.

That's the difference in a nutshell.

The gangs in the states and Mexico, none of those would even exist were drugs legalized.

Even that 15 year you mention, they're making a personal choice.qnd again, so many of the negative affects would go awY were drugged changed, as there is nothing that makes most drugs inherently dangerous; gangs, adulterants, etc are all byproducts of prohibition.

Meanwhile, the only leg you stand on to defend fraud is "ridiculous interest rates" which are wholey voluntary - no one forces you to sign up for q line of credit.

And fraud as a victimless crime? You can abstract it in the Amazon context and say that the ownership (shareholders) are so diverse, and their respective losses so small that you don't think you're causing them real harm.

But apply that activity to a small business. Say you're a sole proprietor, and you sell $300 worth of gadgets to someone who then charges back. You're out both the product and the money. Will you still say that fraud is "victimless" being that you have sustained a real loss? I can't imagine so.


[2 Points] None:

[deleted]


[3 Points] SWIMstains:

Drugs aren't responsible for gangs or gang violence. Drug phohibition is responsible. That's why there are no alcohol cartels in Mexico.


[3 Points] 0xb44d:

you're a complete moron if you think fraud takes money away from banks and big business and that they aren't passing those costs on to the poorest via fees


[2 Points] CocaineNose:

crack maybe, but aint no 15 year old getting hooked on coke


[2 Points] None:

With taking drugs most possibly you're hurting only your self. With stealing credit cards you ruin whole families. That's that.

p.s. if a 15yo has access to darknet and desire for coke, then something went wrong in the edificationˌfrom the family.


[2 Points] hdheuud:

Fraud is still wrong. Why are we saying it is okay to steal from the rich? That is just a rationalization. We should not steal from anyone, under any circumstances.


[2 Points] None:

if you're implying you were drugged with shrooms that's really weird and probably pretty difficult to pull off.

also drugs don't start gangs, drug laws do. the darknet takes out a lot of the violence, and removes the need for gangs to protect people and their drugs.


[2 Points] Theeconomist1:

You people do know that the only people actually losing money are the billion dollar corporations

You lost any chance of your argument here with an obvious lack of understanding of how the economy works. Here's a hint - billion dollar corporations are not the ultimate losers here. Raise taxes on billion dollar corporations? Sure, the ones who ultimate pay are the consumer or the employees or a combination of both via reduced wages and/or higher cost of product. You don't really believe that a loss ends with the corporation do you? No, the loss is passed on to the consumer. That's not even counting the multitudes of shareholders, as 666fun rightfully pointed out. The shareholders are teachers, garbage men, pipe workers, etc etc. Fraud loss is passed on to them.

So unfortunately nothing is going to get settled here and now. Even if you had coherent, well thought out arguments it wouldn't get settled here and now. But it is disappointing the lack of understanding how things work.

TL;DR: Corporations don't take losses. Consumers, shareholders, and wage earners eat that loss.


[1 Points] None:

I've always thought that those stolen CC's belong to someone that isn't exactly a billion dollar corporation - as far as you know, you might be buying your own credit card details.


[1 Points] None:

[deleted]


[1 Points] chappie_the_movie:

Ahhh yalll i done fucked my head up... Fuck fuck fuck.. I do crystal meth. no joke. eeeeeh.


[0 Points] Aluminum_Foil_Hat:

I approve drugs cause I do them. I don't like getting stolen from so I disapprove of fraud. If I could get away with 30 million, I so would cause I like free money.