Ross Ulbricht's biggest mistake

Running a darknet drugs market while being an American.

Here in Germany he would have gotten 10 years at the very most. Most likely 5 years since it's "only" conspiracy and the first conviction. Which means he would have been out in 2.5 years. From a prison which is basically a hotel compared to an American prison.

Plus, Germany is not permitted to extradite its own citizens.

He probably would never be able to leave Germany again, but if he was clever about anonymizing his remaining bitcoin stash, and keeping a low profile, he would be able to live comfortably without ever having to work again.

But what he did, was basically like walking into a lion's cage. Stupid, naive and with complete disregard for risk/reward ratios.


Comments


[129 Points] Pongpianskul:

You are 100% correct. Someone had to say it. America is no place to seek freedom of any kind anymore. Those who value their freedom in America are already in jail or about to be arrested for something they believe in. It is demoralizing as can be.

However, know this: No one choses to be American save those born outside of its borders. It simply happens. You fall out of your mother's womb and before you can say a word about it either way, you are told you are an American. It has nothing to do with volition or beliefs. Just because you were born in America doesn't mean you meant to be born there. Inside, perhaps you feel much more like a Frenchman or a Spaniard or even a Greek but the transformation from American to Greek or whatever, is costly and hard to come by for most. It is harder to escape such awful circumstances than you may imagine.


[25 Points] None:

True, well at least Europe has very lenient prison sentences, which is how it should be.


[16 Points] DeafPirateRoberts:

I cant believe he CAME BACK to America after running the site abroad


[14 Points] None:

Easy to say afterwards.

I don't think his biggest mistake was being an American..his biggest mistake was talking to much.


[10 Points] ShulginsCat:

Not sure if it matters whether or not he is American, the FBI would still have wanted his ass. In the book Kingpin they nail some Ukrainian hacker while he's on vacation in Guam smh they don't give fucks


[9 Points] Dr-Maximum:

In Belgium drug dealers and rapist alike are free to go when their lawyer fiends a small detailed procedure fault by the justice system. Like a form that's turned in a day late.


[8 Points] None:

[deleted]


[7 Points] None:

After reading for a while about this situation. I don't find he was dumb. If he truly put his email think about this, there was no market at the time. He had nothing to go off of. He didn't know the market would blow up the way it did. I'm sure he didn't think he would get arrested. Once he realized he was in way over his head he got help. People talk trash that he got ID's. He had to get ID's of people. These people could have fucked him over and ruined his site and life. He had so much to lose. For how little he knew, he did a damn good job. Yes, he made mistakes, but even some of the best in the world would have made some type of mistake. We are all human and he is no different. People make mistakes, unfortunately he is fucked, but he got what he wanted. He started a free market and nobody will ever change that. The online marketplaces have flourished because of him. He was a hero. He put his ideas before his own well being for the sake of changing the world in his eyes. Bravo to him.


[6 Points] ShulginsCat:

Germany is not permitted to extradite its own citizens.

About Kim DotCom and that whole NZ story:

http://www.whaleoil.co.nz/2014/10/extradition-germany-actually-kim-dotcoms-card-get-jail-free-card/

The extradition treaty itself: http://www.mcnabbassociates.com/Germany%20International%20Extradition%20Treaty%20with%20the%20United%20States.pdf

Another important addition to this treaty is a provision in Article 2 which includes as extraditable offenses those which are Federal offenses and punishable by imprisonment for a maximum period exceeding one year in both countries. Article 2 also authorizes extradition under certain conditions for an attempt to commit or a conspiracy to commit any extraditable offense. Article 2 permits as well the Government of the United States to request the extradition of a person for any extraditable offense when United States Federal jurisdiction is based upon the use of the mails or other means of interstate communication or transport.

[...]

It is anticipated that this provision would be useful in the area of narcotic and counterfeiting violations. Similar provisions are contained in the treaties on extradition with Spain and Norway.

EDIT: IANAL so please correct me if you I'm reading this wrong.


[7 Points] TRY_LSD:

Honestly, I think he just got in too deep and didn't realize it.


[6 Points] STEZN:

Yeah why the first bitcoins he got didn't get him a ticket to germany ireland or belize. Just somewhere else is beyond me


[5 Points] select1on:

Having millions of dollars and a passport but not using it might be number 2.


[2 Points] greatoctober:

Well, I also don't think getting caught was a part of his game plan.


[6 Points] DickClarkFive:

The prison system of the US vs a country like Germany I think is a chicken or egg situation. The prison system develops and is adapted to fit the population and culture. 60 years ago, I don't think anyone would arguing Germany was the place to go for freedom and leniency. So, from the get go, Germany tries real hard not to repeat the mistakes of it's past.

The USA has a population 4 times larger than Germany. With a much more diversified culture, and sits just north of some of the most violent countries and cultures on the planet. These very violent places are also the source for much of the worlds drug supply. So, much of that violence and supply makes its way into the much larger and diversified USA more so than Germany.

Basically, over the last few decades, the US has been dealing with a violent drug gang issue on a scale that dwarfs anything Germany has had to deal with. There's a cool documentary called "Cocaine Cowboys" that just scratches the surface of this issue. Also look into the history of some of the big street gangs, like MS13.

So, the US had problems places like Germany didn't. And reacted accordingly. Hind sight is 20/20, and I'm not saying the whole "war on drugs" was the 100% correct response, but the US prison system arose as a response to a specific set of circumstances unique to the US. Germany has different problems to deal with, so the response is different. Same goes for any other country. Japan has some of the harshest drug laws on the planet, but a fraction of the prison population of the US. And it's not because Japan has a more or less authoritarian government attitude, it's a cultural response to circumstances specific to each culture.

But, George Lukas has polluted our minds. Everyone wants their lives to feel meaningful. Everyone wants to be Luke Skywalker fighting the evil Empire. So, they search for a Darth Vader, and find one to pick a fight with. The USA and it's prison system is just one of countless shadow Darth Vaders people go after. (There are many much more evil, unjustified and repressive things in the world worthy of a Vader fight)

That's not to say, any criticism of US Justice system is misplaced. There are many valid criticisms one can make of any system. But that's the attitude and position many people approach the topic from, rather than a logical understanding of the history and causes.


[4 Points] Ajmartin2006:

He attended my university

Safe to say they don't like it when we bring him up


[3 Points] None:

[deleted]


[2 Points] pinkprincess1:

Nope,his biggest mistake was using his frigging real email address! Must admit though I was shocked when I found out he lived in the us.


[2 Points] qemist:

Here in Germany he would have gotten 10 years at the very most. Most likely 5 years since it's "only" conspiracy and the first conviction. Which means he would have been out in 2.5 years. From a prison which is basically a hotel compared to an American prison.

Plus, Germany is not permitted to extradite its own citizens

Germany has a very restrictive extradition treaty with the US. Compare UK and Australia, which will extradite their citizens for things they did in their own country which were not illegal there.


[1 Points] None:

but, but.... FREEDOM!!1


[1 Points] Satoshi-:

I'm sure Ross made bigger mistakes, such as KEEPING A FUCKING JOURNAL.


[-1 Points] None:

Can someone refresh me on how exactly he fucked up? The break in his opsec that got him arrested?


[-2 Points] The_New_XK:

His biggest mistake was hiring a hit man. Even though the cops faked it, Ulbricht believed he succeeded with a murder for hire plot.

All the other shit he did could have made him a modern day folk hero, but he fucked it up when he decided to kill someone to cover his own ass.


[-3 Points] UnreachablePaul:

Even Nazis walked mostly free in Germany