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Discussion => Security => Topic started by: tbart on July 27, 2013, 02:43 pm

Title: If you're ever charged...
Post by: tbart on July 27, 2013, 02:43 pm
this thread isn't so much about internet security but the security of not going to jail if at all possible, once you've been charged

one suggestion - one Federal agency, ATF, is so outrageous in their conduct they're actually ridiculed by other Fed LE (DEA isn't much better). They hire the lowest denomination factor for agents, a lot are idiots who were hired into the regulatory side, and wanted to get over to the LE side, where they get to wear vests, carry subguns and kick down doors at 4:00AM (this is the mentality). That assessment was from a former DOJ prosecutor - an agent had been caught fabricating evidence presented in trial, when i asked him what that agent's motivation was (i was still naive), his response was "most are hired on into regulatory side, and they want to get over to the LE side (fill in from above) - to do that they have to show they can not only get convictions, but will do whatever it takes to get convictions....it's designed like that from up top, ie management in washington.

A GAO study back around 1998, done because of complaints by judges and prosecutors, at the federal and state levels alike, of so many ATF agents had been caught lying on the stand, the GAO study found nearly 80% of the ATF agents at the time, were un-useable as witnesses in court. 80 fucking %

so the suggestion, first instruction my atty will have if i'm ever charged, in discovery to request a history/listing of every case that agent has testified in, for the previous 5 years - so we can research the cases and ask defense counsels in those if that agent had had any testimony proven perjurious or untruthful.

discredit the agent, and the case is down the toilet

Title: Re: If you're ever charged...
Post by: sl0wturtle on July 27, 2013, 03:10 pm
I dont know. You can discredit the agent, but the 10 pounds of meth and the bag of cash they found in your room, now sitting in the evidence room doesn't lie.

You should have a self destructing booby trapped house so when you are raided you can escape through an underground tunnel system and get away. The niggers did that sort of shit back in the day.
Title: Re: If you're ever charged...
Post by: tbart on July 27, 2013, 03:49 pm
actually, if the agent can be proven to have lied previously, it can go to "poisoned fruit", if warrant was improperly applied for etc and a lot of implications can be raised

it's becoming more common for cops, (i'll give them a somewhat benefit of the doubt motivation here) in frustration at seeing criminals with high dollar counsel get off, to fabricate evidence to make their case - check the story & video at http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/07/25/shock-undercover-police-agent-caught-on-tape-seemingly-planting-drugs-on-ny-business-owner/ - an informant, trying to make the case for the cops, at a bong & papers shop, is caught on the store's surveillance cameras, planting cocaine. Then when it's outed, that CI conveniently goes on the run, so it can't be proven he did it with the cops approval. Common sense tells me, no one is giving away cocaine, on his own initiative, for the heck of it - i've got to assume it was given to him to plant

Hell, even the DEA has been caught lying, at fairly high level - that mexican cartel leader, can't fully recall his name but believe it was Joaquin xxxx (somthing in mexican that meant crazy) - i believe the trial is still ongoing up in chicago when he got extradited, he has documents claiming or proving he had been offered/given immunity from the DEA in exchange for his acting as a CI - DEA has denied it, but there's some troubling evidence supporting his claims.

If you can discredit the agent charging you, you might lose the 10 lbs of meth, but win an acquittal

again, just an idea and suggestion
Title: Re: If you're ever charged...
Post by: HCeline on July 27, 2013, 07:07 pm
You should have a self destructing booby trapped house so when you are raided you can escape through an underground tunnel system and get away. The niggers did that sort of shit back in the day.

wait what which niggers?  I've heard plenty of people talking about it but never ever heard it actually happening in practice?  Any juicy news articles?
Title: Re: If you're ever charged...
Post by: sl0wturtle on July 27, 2013, 07:26 pm
The underground railroad is what I was referring to
Title: Re: If you're ever charged...
Post by: kmfkewm on July 27, 2013, 07:29 pm
mexican is not a language lol
Title: Re: If you're ever charged...
Post by: HCeline on July 27, 2013, 07:50 pm
The underground railroad is what I was referring to

Quite bad ass, I didn't know that it was that intense, I just thought it was folks running and hiding in secret places. 
Title: Re: If you're ever charged...
Post by: SlinginCopper on July 28, 2013, 02:01 am
actually, if the agent can be proven to have lied previously, it can go to "poisoned fruit", if warrant was improperly applied for etc and a lot of implications can be raised

it's becoming more common for cops, (i'll give them a somewhat benefit of the doubt motivation here) in frustration at seeing criminals with high dollar counsel get off, to fabricate evidence to make their case - check the story & video at http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/07/25/shock-undercover-police-agent-caught-on-tape-seemingly-planting-drugs-on-ny-business-owner/ - an informant, trying to make the case for the cops, at a bong & papers shop, is caught on the store's surveillance cameras, planting cocaine. Then when it's outed, that CI conveniently goes on the run, so it can't be proven he did it with the cops approval. Common sense tells me, no one is giving away cocaine, on his own initiative, for the heck of it - i've got to assume it was given to him to plant

Hell, even the DEA has been caught lying, at fairly high level - that mexican cartel leader, can't fully recall his name but believe it was Joaquin xxxx (somthing in mexican that meant crazy) - i believe the trial is still ongoing up in chicago when he got extradited, he has documents claiming or proving he had been offered/given immunity from the DEA in exchange for his acting as a CI - DEA has denied it, but there's some troubling evidence supporting his claims.

If you can discredit the agent charging you, you might lose the 10 lbs of meth, but win an acquittal

again, just an idea and suggestion
Jaoquin is "El Chapo" which means shorty .......unsure who you are referring to because El Chapo escaped a Mexican prison after paying/bribing/extorting every guard in the Jail. Interesting story though brother....
Title: Re: If you're ever charged...
Post by: tbart on July 28, 2013, 02:38 am
I might have transferred his name from the recent story on him, but the story i'm talking about started about 10-12 months ago, his defense counsel had videotape of him meeting with DEA in a mexican hotel lobby, they had that to back up the documents they were presenting to the court

it was interesting, if true, how LE cannot be trusted, even when they give it to you in writing

PS - found it, here's the story on the guy alleging DEA granted him immunity  http://gantdaily.com/2011/08/03/justice-dept-accused-of-giving-immunity-to-mexican-drug-cartel-leaders/

Title: Re: If you're ever charged...
Post by: Baraka on July 29, 2013, 03:36 am
"it was interesting, if true, how LE cannot be trusted, even when they give it to you in writing"

And they can't be trusted! The po po will lie to you all day long if they think it'll help convict you. And even if they give you a promise in writing and really mean it, the prosecutor can piss all over it. Or the judge will if the piece of paper is considered non-binding.

This is why you should never trust the police. NEVER.
Title: Re: If you're ever charged...
Post by: Baraka on July 29, 2013, 04:49 am
"I dont know. You can discredit the agent, but the 10 pounds of meth and the bag of cash they found in your room, now sitting in the evidence room doesn't lie."

I saw this earlier and forgot about it when posting earlier.

This is exactly the kind of lack of understanding of the law that allows LE to fuck people over.

Once again: if LE can't legally establish a reason for searching and seizing evidence, then their whole case is blown to shit. It doesn't matter that they seized 10 pounds of meth and a suitcase full of cash. They need to have a reason for carrying out the search in the first place. That means probable cause. Or a warrant. They can lie to invent probable cause and a reason to search and can do the same to secure a warrant. But none of those things will hold up in court. Especially as far as a home is concerned (you have almost zero rights as the driver of a car these days). Then again, maybe you got rattled and told the cops everything they wanted to hear. That'll fuck you every time.

People rarely stand their ground anymore against LE. And it's easy to see why. We live in a police state in many ways. Still, if you keep your mouth shut, know your rights and how to exercise them then you should be alright come trial. Or it may never even make it to trial when the charges are dismissed. That is IF you have a decent lawyer.