Silk Road forums
Discussion => Silk Road discussion => Topic started by: slyguy498 on October 08, 2013, 11:39 pm
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This is news to me.
!!!!!CLEARNET!!!!!
http://siliconangle.com/blog/2013/10/07/the-saga-of-silk-roads-dead-pirate-roberts-ross-william-ulbricht/
"Recently, we even learned that the FBI has failed to confiscate the bulk of DPR’s Bitcoin stash (estimated at nearly 600,000 BTC or approaching $80 million) and has only gotten their hands on about 26,000 BTC. The current thought is that the 26k BTC represents the digitally stored wallet of Silk Road customers, wallets, transactions, escrow—but DPR himself kept his pirate booty elsewhere, outside of the range of the Silk Road servers.
With those Bitcoins in his lawyers possession, Ulbricht could have quite a nest egg to mount a legal defense. This is especially true because often justice entities freeze the assets of potential targets to make them easier to prosecute; but since it’s difficult to impossible to freeze a BTC wallet that you don’t have access to, those 600k BTC (or some fraction thereof) could be turned surreptitiously into cash."
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i wish i could remember where i read it so i could post the link but i remember reading a section from an interview with the "atlantis founder" after they arrested DPR saying something along the lines of but not exactly..."it amazes me how many young brilliant minds r willing to throw away a bright future just to oppose the government and fight for the freedoms that they believe we r being deprived of"
i dunno y this stuck with me but it just makes me think. When the site was up we knew he was taking a risk running it but personally it didnt rlly hit me until they arrested him that he rlly was sticking up for all of us...at the end of the day he was going to take all the heat as he has.
lol like jesus dying for our sins..i dunno this is a weird rant but thats how i feel right now. o_O
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He was also extremely well compensated to take on that risk. To the tune of $2.6 million a month.
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He was also extremely well compensated to take on that risk. To the tune of $2.6 million a month.
Personally no amount of money would compensate for that risk...but hey guess he was feeling edgy
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He was also extremely well compensated to take on that risk. To the tune of $2.6 million a month.
He does not seem to have spent much of the money. He did not even have his own apartment , much less a house. Now he may have to spend the next 10 ~ 20 years in federal prison. Ross Ulbricht seems like sort of a tragic figure. If he is DPR , he was more motivated by ideology than profit. The SR saga might make a good story for a book / movie. But I believe US law prohibits convicted felons from profiting by selling their story , so he does not even get that.
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This is news to me.
!!!!!CLEARNET!!!!!
http://siliconangle.com/blog/2013/10/07/the-saga-of-silk-roads-dead-pirate-roberts-ross-william-ulbricht/
"Recently, we even learned that the FBI has failed to confiscate the bulk of DPR’s Bitcoin stash (estimated at nearly 600,000 BTC or approaching $80 million) and has only gotten their hands on about 26,000 BTC. The current thought is that the 26k BTC represents the digitally stored wallet of Silk Road customers, wallets, transactions, escrow—but DPR himself kept his pirate booty elsewhere, outside of the range of the Silk Road servers.
That's not shocking; I don't think anyone thought he was storing all of his assets in his SR wallet.
"With those Bitcoins in his lawyers possession, Ulbricht could have quite a nest egg to mount a legal defense.
Here's 3 reasons why that's all irrelevant bullshit (no offense to you; I know you're just quoting):
1. He's got a public defender, which you're only entitled to if you can't afford one, so even if this is true, he can't use it. You could argue that applying for a public defender is a smart strategy so that he doesn't have to give up those hidden coins in the civil asset forfeiture; but it's a one or the other kind of situation. If he falsified his application, then he's guilty of fraud. So yes, down the road, maybe he could try hiring a legal team, but not right now. And the prosecutors could easily look into the source. This was an issue during the George Zimmerman trial. His wife pleaded guilty to perjury for giving false testimony during a bail hearing.
2. His lawyer is a public defender (aka a public servant). They tend to avoid risk. That's the kind of shit that will get a public defender fired; and just about any lawyer disbarred if caught.
And 3:This is especially true because often justice entities freeze the assets of potential targets to make them easier to prosecute; but since it’s difficult to impossible to freeze a BTC wallet that you don’t have access to, those 600k BTC (or some fraction thereof) could be turned surreptitiously into cash.
-----I don't think you can do that "surreptitiously"; it's kind of hard to cash out large chunks of BTC when you're under such an intense spotlight. If the press is aware of this, then so too is the government. How do you think this reporter/blogger knows this?
"it amazes me how many young brilliant minds r willing to throw away a bright future just to oppose the government and fight for the freedoms that they believe we r being deprived of"
i dunno y this stuck with me but it just makes me think. When the site was up we knew he was taking a risk running it but personally it didnt rlly hit me until they arrested him that he rlly was sticking up for all of us...at the end of the day he was going to take all the heat as he has. lol like jesus dying for our sins
You're either crazy as shit or incredibly naive; I'll go with the latter because that's how it sounds. ;D
First of all, thank you @Angelina for a dose of sanity! :D
1. You have no idea what statements he has or hasn't made to the police.
2. You don't know that he hasn't given information to the police. That type of information is never made public until arrests are made.
3. The fact that he tried to have one of his own ex-employees killed to save himself should tell you he's no fucking jesus.
4. He wasn't playing the role of a martyr; he was cocky, arrogant, and careless. He thought he'd never be caught, which is exactly how they caught him. That's always how they get people: laziness, stupidity, greed, or arrogance. He was logged in to the fucking SR servers in a fucking public library. He logged in at a public WiFi hotspot that was less than a quarter mile from his house.
5. He wasn't doing this as some sort of humanitarian movement. You just quoted an article stating that he has a cache of $80 million. It's called greed and not knowing enough to quit while you're ahead.
If he'd done all of this "for us," he'd've been more careful. Getting busted puts "us" all at much greater risk of harm. If he were interested in furthering the libertarian cause (which is what he spewed and ranted about), he wouldn't have involved himself in 2 murder-for-hire conspiracies.
Do I think he believed in ending the War on Drugs and prohibition? Sure.
Am I grateful to him for starting this site and taking this risk? Abso-fucking-lutely!
Do I believe that he's a martyr or "taking the heat" for all of us? No fucking way! See my previous comments about his wealth. I'd do that shit too for $80 mil. Come on.
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A +1 for you sir
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He was also extremely well compensated to take on that risk. To the tune of $2.6 million a month.
He does not seem to have spent much of the money. He did not even have his own apartment , much less a house. Now he may have to spend the next 10 ~ 20 years in federal prison. Ross Ulbricht seems like sort of a tragic figure. If he is DPR , he was more motivated by ideology than profit. The SR saga might make a good story for a book / movie. But I believe US law prohibits convicted felons from profiting by selling their story , so he does not even get that.
Oh OK. That's standard operating procedure for intelligent people involved in the drug trade. You don't go around buying expensive things when you don't have significant income to justify them. Did he even have a job? A single man in his 20s sharing a house with 2 other single men in their 20s sounds just about right. It's called inconspicuous.
And $3000 a month (if they split the rent in thirds -- he paid $1000/month) is not exactly a shithole.
Please. And I'm fucking Santa Claus. He saved $80 million in profits. He lived a comfortable life. If he were such a humanitarian, why didn't he donate a chunk of that to charity?
He was saving it for retirement. I'm sure even he knew he couldn't do this forever, but while he was, he couldn't live his life like an obvious drug-dealer.
There's nothing libertarian about murder-for-hire. Was that on ideological grounds? Again I'm grateful for what he did for me personally, but from an ideological standpoint, he hurt his cause far more than he helped it.
And no, there's no US Federal law preventing felons from profiting from their stories. Those are state laws, and several have been struck down by the Supreme Court. They violate the 1st Amendment. Any existing state laws have not been challenged.
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i understand and get what ur saying but at the same time were only going off of shit thrown in the media, we dont know what the fuck happened or how it happened. Only what they want. The whole investigation is probably made up of a bunch of bullshit lies....
No one even knew this guy personally so to say he was cocky, arrogant, or anything else is ignorant. Of course the media would make him out to be a shithead..so there the smart ones. From my point of view DPR did a whole lot more for his cause than any of us will ever probably do for any fucking cause. I dont mean to argue with anyone thats not y i posted it....I just wanna give credit where its due.
Compare the picture u painted of DPR before the arrest and the picture the media has painted for the world after the arrest. its two different ppl. Im going off of his words while he was still around here and the services he provided. fuck the rest.
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I dont believe you guys are talking someth negative ab DPR..he is like a father to all our community ..he was working for money and who can blame him great risk does cost money ..but more then for money he was working for the IDEA, for the principle ..as he called it for the Revolution ...he had 100000 chances to take all of our money, what was it 1.2 billion ? seems like a decent chunk to me if i want only money ...all he had to do is to say the web site is in maintenance and he will have ab 1 week to move all our money ...he has never done it ...how many sleepless nights he spent defeating all the attacks ,that were made on SR ? a lot i remember ,to how many people he gave an income ?a lot ..and at the end as a honorable captain he went down with his ship ...he didnt run like a rat at the first site of the danger no ,he stayed he fought for us ...he gave us the community we have ,he gave us the idea of freedom ..he put up a fire that i doubt will ever go out ..he payed with his freedom for whaT HE GAVE TO US ..because the money he made ..he wouldnt even be able to spend in jail ..he is a human being ..he made mistakes ..we all do ...
There is only one God and One Devil known to us ,everybody else falls somewhere in between ...he is just a human being who did a lot for us ,i do believe he deserves at least our respect if not love ...
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The whole investigation is probably made up of a bunch of bullshit lies....
Like security and back up plans/site/btc addresses? Like I said, I'm not mad at him. But still, it gors both ways from a neutral POV.
No one even knew this guy personally so to say he was cocky, arrogant, or anything else is ignorant.
I never said personally; I meant publicly. There's a difference between a public persona and someone's personality.
Of course the media would make him out to be a shithead..so there the smart ones.
Oh OK. Really? Come on.
DPR did a whole lot more for his cause than any of us will ever probably do for any fucking cause. I dont mean to argue with anyone thats not y i posted it....I just wanna give credit where its due.
I agree and pointed that out myself, but fucking Jesus? I'm an atheist and that still bothered me.
Compare the picture u painted of DPR before the arrest and the picture the media has painted for the world after the arrest. its two different ppl. Im going off of his words while he was still around here and the services he provided. fuck the rest.
Meh. That's why I called you naive. Whether any of it is true or not, it's plausible. Like, it all makes sense. It comes down to public persona vs actual person. They're different people.
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Please. And I'm fucking Santa Claus. He saved $80 million in profits. He lived a comfortable life. If he were such a humanitarian, why didn't he donate a chunk of that to charity?
How do you know whether he would or wouldn't give some of it away?? You have no idea what he would've done over time! The money was his to do with as he pleased. It still is. He earned it. The government on the other hand STOLE their portion.
There's nothing libertarian about murder-for-hire. Was that on ideological grounds? Again I'm grateful for what he did for me personally, but from an ideological standpoint, he hurt his cause far more than he helped it.
Please stop convicting DPR before he even has his trial and has an opportunity to defend himself. In America you are INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY. Maybe not for much longer but you supposedly still have that right.
And no, there's no US Federal law preventing felons from profiting from their stories. Those are state laws, and several have been struck down by the Supreme Court. They violate the 1st Amendment. Any existing state laws have not been challenged.
Surprising that this hasn't become a casualty of the drug war like so many other things.
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Please. And I'm fucking Santa Claus. He saved $80 million in profits. He lived a comfortable life. If he were such a humanitarian, why didn't he donate a chunk of that to charity?
How do you know whether he would or wouldn't give some of it away?? You have no idea what he would've done over time! The money was his to do with as he pleased. It still is. He earned it. The government on the other hand STOLE their portion.
Stole is not accurate. That's just more hyperbole, which I'm sick of. They froze funds on an illegal website; they confiscated his money on civil foreiture. That's not stealing. I'm not comment on ethics. All the actors involved in SR (admins, vendors, and buyers) made a choice. I lost money too. That's 100% my fault, not the government's. I knew that would happen if SR were shut down; I chose to take the risk.
There's nothing libertarian about murder-for-hire. Was that on ideological grounds? Again I'm grateful for what he did for me personally, but from an ideological standpoint, he hurt his cause far more than he helped it.
Please stop convicting DPR before he even has his trial and has an opportunity to defend himself. In America you are INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY. Maybe not for much longer but you supposedly still have that right.
Oh OK. Not when you hire an FBI agent to perform a murder. If he gets off on that conspiracy charge, it will be on a technicality. That doesn't make him innocent. And whether it's true or not, that's a guaranteed conviction if it goes to trial. Whose side to you think a jury would believe? Who has more credibility OUSTIDE of SR? That's all that matters. Doesn't matter what I think.
PS, Innocent until proven guilty doesn't apply to the court of public opinion; that's called free speech. I'm not going to be on the jury (I'd be dismissed for my views by the prosecution if I were even in the jury pool).
And no, there's no US Federal law preventing felons from profiting from their stories. Those are state laws, and several have been struck down by the Supreme Court. They violate the 1st Amendment. Any existing state laws have not been challenged.
Surprising that this hasn't become a casualty of the drug war like so many other things.
What's surprising is how much people speculate without knowing what they are talking about. All of this information is searchable. And actually, these laws are called Son of Sam laws. They're designed to prevent people convicted of violent crimes like serial killers and rapists from profiting from there crimes. They have nothing to do with the War on Drugs or non-violent crime. And yes, they violate the 1st amendment, but I'm not so keen on the Son of Sam (who's dead anyway) or the members of the Manson family from profiting from their crimes (i.e. the ones who pleaded guilty and who testified against themselves). That's the publishers' decision though.
If you've ever seen the actual, real, US criminal justice system at work, and are not basing everything on theory plus a few episodes of Law and Order, you'd know how this will play out. That's all I'm saying.
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2. His lawyer is a public defender (aka a public servant). They tend to avoid risk. That's the kind of shit that will get a public defender fired; and just about any lawyer disbarred if caught.
That's a bit misleading because normal lawyers also tend to avoid risks, as they are typically friends with prosecutors / judges (and by risk I assume you mean an aggressive defense). It doesn't matter if Ross has a public defender because he is the one coming up with the legal strategy. DPR would never behave like a complacent loser who follows some plan from an attorney (and of course, you can bet the moron's plan was to take a plea deal); I'd bet my life he's been buried in books in the jail's law library doing research. Regardless of who he has for an attorney, he'll be representing himself, and the public defender is required to go along with any defense that Ross comes up with.
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<sigh> None of you seem to get this. You're getting into my area of expertise, so you're giving me the opportunity to rant. You really should look some of this stuff up in a legal reference book (there are a million online).
Just stop. Please?
I'm going to start off by saying I'm totally grateful to DPR for starting SR and for taking the risk that came along with it, even if he was VERY WELL compensated. For that only, I love him like a brother and I wish him the best. I can't support him if these allegations of murder conspiracies are even half true though. And I'm sorry, but DPR isn't/wasn't a real person; he's a fictional character.
You're living in this overly idealistic world that doesn't exist. You're making way more assumptions than I am; I'm basing my statements on real world experiences, the evidence presented against him so far, and his own statements/actions. And worst of all, you're assuming that the public DPR is exactly the same as the private Ross (if they're even the same person). I can tell you that DPR's philosophies were just that: philosophies. He talked about the way the world should be, not the way it is. I can tell you that LEGALLY, he had no fucking idea what the fuck he was talking about.
You can't possibly be THAT naive.
I see so much fucking bullshit on here from people who've never been arrested, let alone indicted, and who've never seen an actual criminal trial or set foot inside a courtroom except for traffic/disorderly persons offenses/misdemeanors; everyone's an armchair attorney (with zero real world experience) who thinks they can beat the system with things like:
1. Their misreading of the 4th, 5th, 6th, and 14th amendments (that's why you need a lawyer; there's precedent set by SCOUTS/appellate courts behind every single one of them -- their meanings change with time and are seldom interpreted as they are plainly written).
2. That the myth of "plausible deniability" (BTW this was coined by the CIA in the 1960s; it's used sometimes successfully by government officials--like Iran-Contra for example--but that's about it).
3. Believing that mistake of law and mistake of fact are legal defenses.
4. Thinking they'll be able to refuse to turn over encryption passwords and NOT get locked up. (like fucking "I forgot" will keep you out of jail on contempt charges. Oh OK. Try it when they have a search warrant!)
5. A common misunderstanding of "conspiracy."
6. A misunderstanding of what constitutes both "reasonable doubt" and the "reasonable person standard."
7. The belief that if you're right (i.e. not guilty or certain in your interpretation of the law), you will prevail at trial. That the system isn't rigged against the average person.
8. Etc. (I could go on for days).
I'm going to break this down for you in terms of the way the US federal criminal justice system works:
That's a bit misleading because normal lawyers also tend to avoid risks, as they are typically friends with prosecutors / judges (and by risk I assume you mean an aggressive defense).
Lawyers don't avoid risks because they're "typically friends with prosecutors/judges"; they avoid risks that could get them disbarred (you know, like, practicing law is how they make their livings/feed their families?). It's about THEMSELVES, NOT their friends.
It was alleged by the OP that the hidden coins were in the possession of his public defender. Knowing that he has coins hidden somewhere (i.e. attorney-client privilege) and actually having possession of them and not turning them over to the court (attorney misconduct/contempt of court) are very different things, especially when you're employed by the government (who pays the lawyer?). The latter would be a huge risk for a public defender (or any lawyer). An attorney can't overlook a judge's order; if they're in possession of the coins, they have to turn them over or else face a potentially career ending risk.
That's what I meant by "avoid risks," I meant risks that would get them disbarred (specifically possessing funds that their client is hiding from the government -- aka funds that were ordered to be seized).
The reason that public defenders don't mount aggressive defenses is that they don't have the time or the resources to do so. Their caseloads are way too high.
It doesn't matter if Ross has a public defender because he is the one coming up with the legal strategy. DPR would never behave like a complacent loser who follows some plan from an attorney (and of course, you can bet the moron's plan was to take a plea deal)
Sorry, but that's the dumbest shit I've ever heard (not hyperbole here). You don't NEED a lawyer; you can appear in ANY court proceeding pro se (look it up). Your attorney comes up with the legal strategy; that's why you get a professional to represent you. You take advantage of their knowledge, experience, and advice. Obviously in matters where you have a choice, they defer to you; but there's a LIMIT to that. And no, it's NOT fucking dumb to take a plea deal, especially when there's an ass-load of evidence that suggests you're guilty. Dumb is going to fucking trial and losing and ending up with a harsher sentence than the plea.
I'd bet my life he's been buried in books in the jail's law library doing research. Regardless of who he has for an attorney, he'll be representing himself, and the public defender is required to go along with any defense that Ross comes up with.
Look, you don't know what the fuck you're talking about. You're lawyer is not a fucking lap dog. Lawyers can (and in some cases must) withdraw from a case (look this up too!) when:
1. They can't reach an agreement with their client on a defense strategy.
2. There's a personality conflict.
3. If they tell you that you're doing something illegal (like stashing coins ordered to be seized) and you refuse to stop.
Those are just 3 examples of when a lawyer can do this. They are not bound to you in any way. The are NOT required "to go along with any defense Ross comes up with."
Federal detention centers (which you are referring to as "jail") are not required to have extensive law libraries (if they even have them at all -- it's no longer required) And there's a burden of proof on the offender to show harm or damages, which is ridiculously high, in order to be granted relief. They consider the fact that you filed your own charges to be proof that you don't need the fucking legal reference books (look that up too while your at it). BTW, anyone in federal custody is NOT permitted to access the internet (which is a privilege they wouldn't grant him anyway based on the nature of the charges against him). If any of what you claim were true, he'd dismiss his attorney and appear pro se. Why not take all the credit for yourself and be the hero/martyr everyone wants you to be?
I've seen enough of my friends processed by the US criminal justice system (most of whom are/were incarcerated). It doesn't work the way you think.
You need to stop watching Law and Order or CSI or whatever. All that shit they teach you in public school about the constitution, your rights and freedoms, the processes of the administration of justice, etc., etc. is a crock of fucking shit! In real life, it doesn't work the way it's supposed to. Defendants have very little power. Prosecutors wield more power now than judges and juries, and almost no one goes to trial now.
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+1
This is BY FAR the most important thing you've said. Prosecutors have been given almost unlimited power over the past 20 or 30 years. Many of them have a God complex. See the prosecutor who went after Zimmerman. She's a textbook example.
Defendants have very little power. Prosecutors wield more power now than judges and juries, and almost no one goes to trial now.