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Discussion => Security => Topic started by: vman on May 11, 2012, 09:03 am

Title: When people become informants (Stacy Litz)
Post by: vman on May 11, 2012, 09:03 am
This is a message posted on the free talk live forums that sums the issue up with links for more details:

Quote
A prominent libertarian activist, Stacy Litz was recently busted for selling drugs and the police persuaded her to become an informant. She subsequently reported 3 of her friends to the police. The link below goes to a fundraiser for the legal defense of her friends. Anything you have to donate will help.

https://www.fundraise.com/deanna-aeanad/help-victims-of-stacy-litzs-informant-work/george-donnelly?utm_source=supporter_page&utm_medium=f&utm_campaign=RCVb

More on this topic:

http://georgedonnelly.com/agorism/how-a-libertarian-became-a-pennsylvania-state-police-informant

http://knappster.blogspot.com/2012/05/when-comrade-beside-you-falls.html

http://www.nothirdsolution.com/2012/05/09/its-all-fun-and-games-until-youre-faced-with-the-difficult-proposition-of-martyring-yourself-for-a-cause/
(Original post: http://bbs.freetalklive.com/general/support-victims-of-the-drug-war/)

This a description from one of her former friends as to what happened (looks like Stacy was reselling from Silk Road):

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ydEBFFnBU-TEu4vkH9tEhx_y7YAFZHzTPgjSv2p9rbw/mobilebasic?pli=1
Title: Re: When people become informants (Stacy Litz)
Post by: randomOVDB#2 on May 11, 2012, 09:32 am
1. "It’s all fun and games until you’re faced with the difficult proposition of martyring yourself for a cause"

2.  “You can’t be a prominent and public anarchist activist and engage in illegal activities on a sustained and significant basis at the same time”
Title: Re: When people become informants (Stacy Litz)
Post by: Tryptamine on May 11, 2012, 09:59 am
Was just reading this on C4SS. How do you sell to the police 7 times?
Title: Re: When people become informants (Stacy Litz)
Post by: TreyWingo104 on May 11, 2012, 10:43 am
Was just reading this on C4SS. How do you sell to the police 7 times?

yea thats pretty Sketchy.  PA Sales maybe?  i would never ship within my state if I got an order...cancelled.... Maybe someone knows who she was on SR and can lead us to more info?
Title: Re: When people become informants (Stacy Litz)
Post by: BenJesuit on May 11, 2012, 04:37 pm
She seems to be a psychopath.
Title: Re: When people become informants (Stacy Litz)
Post by: thyme on May 12, 2012, 10:16 pm
This same Stacy Litz?

Pardon me, but -  did she in fact cover the arrest of the people on whom she informed? It's not 100% clear, comparing it to the gdoc, but there are many overlaps.
Even if it's a separate incident, the last paragraph of her story is filed under "I just can't even."

hxxp://www.examiner.com/article/the-drug-war-rages-on-west-philly
Quote
February 1, 2012
 The drug war rages on in West Philly
Stacy Litz
Yesterday, on the 4800 block of Florence Street, 5 total individuals were arrested and charged regarding an LSD ring -- $28,000 worth of the untaxed substance was confiscated along with $10,000 in cash.  Two of the individuals were students at Drexel University. 
The police were made aware of the LSD ring due to two students who were arrested on their own charges and then allowed to opportunity to work as informants to eleviate their own charges. 
The story has been made juicier by including that Raphael Zappala, one of the men arrested, was the son of a prominent anti-war activist, Celeste Zappala, who began protesting in 2004 when her son (and Raphael's brother) was killed in Baghdad within the National Guard. 
Zappala worked at Philadelphia's Coalition Against Hunger and was depicted as an "upstanding" person, according to a friend Chris Robinson, who connected LSD use to being unable to act in a civil manner, "It doesn't sound like him.  He always seemed very upstanding . . . I've heard him speak several times at public meetings." 
This event shows that the drug war is alive and well in Philadelphia, and that many people are taking the opportunity to work as informants for the police, despite their own beliefs on the matter.  When it comes down to being put in jail or saving yourself, principles get put aside and it becomes man against man in a never ending cycle.  Instead of possible rehabilitation, ex-dealers are forced to stay in the game and even get involved in situations in which they may not usually be present to lessen their sentence.  This example shows how fear and intimidation is used to prevent those who may be the most driven and outspoken drug war activists to cave into the system, lay low and even work against what their beliefs. 

ps: I'll go with narcissist, if we're playing armchair diagnostician. 
TLP put it very well:
Quote
All narcissists have this potential, it is intrinsic to the personality structure, which is defined as "me above all things."  Sure, usually they figure out non-violent ways to live their life, but that potential is there.
The reason a psychopath kills is because he is bad.  The reason a narcissist kills is so that no one finds out he is bad.
hxxp://thelastpsychiatrist.com/2008/10/psychopathy_antisocial_persona.html#more
[one of the very few psychiatry blogs that does not cause me to break out in hives and tics]
Title: Re: When people become informants (Stacy Litz)
Post by: tootiefruitie on May 12, 2012, 11:22 pm
she would have fit in better over at the farmer's market.
Title: Re: When people become informants (Stacy Litz)
Post by: Limetless on May 12, 2012, 11:24 pm
Snitches get stitches.
Title: Re: When people become informants (Stacy Litz)
Post by: cacoethes on May 12, 2012, 11:41 pm
This is some of the most depressing shit I've read in quite a while.

And fuck that rat bitch.  She's a spoiled, narcissistic sociopath, and yes, she belongs ass-raped and bleeding, alone in a cold, muddy ditch.  My sympathy for her runs about as deep as her empathy.
Title: Re: When people become informants (Stacy Litz)
Post by: funkynuts321 on May 13, 2012, 07:21 am
I found it surprising that they were able to track all the text messages back to the date, confront her about it and just "talk" and ask questions. I don't advocate hitting women, but I'd have had to crack that bitches jaw open. And her boyfriend knew the whole time and tried to explain her actions as acceptable? I'd have had to crack his shit open to.  Fuck the dumb shit.
Title: Re: When people become informants (Stacy Litz)
Post by: valentinesmith on May 13, 2012, 06:16 pm
Say what you want about Stacy Litz, but what is really sick is the US legal system. In most civilized countries, you will not get a reduced sentence if you become an informant. Putting that kind of pressure (go to jail or snitch on your friends) on anyone is considered disproportionate to the goal it is meant to achieve. In fact I believe such a system would conflict with the European Convention of Human Rights. The same is true for the US system of plea bargains.
Title: Re: When people become informants (Stacy Litz)
Post by: dman420 on May 13, 2012, 10:05 pm
sort of off topic but felt like posting this just cuz. iv always felt that certain types of people were a more likely candidate to be a snitch, and you should adjust your clients accordingly ( obviously this isnt as easy on SR). my personal opinion and thic certainly isnt always the case but iv felt that these types of opople would be pressured more easily and fold quicker. people with kids, they dont want to hear about how their kids are gonna be taken and put in a foster home. people who are deeper in school like soon to graduate (college) or have a lot of financial aid to lose or dont wanna get kicked outta college n lose that time n $ investment over tellin where the got a sack. also people who are are already on probation or have enough previous charges that would be facing real time theyll justify it to themself that "o man ill do a lot more time than he would". there is also that person who you know is just not trustworthy. they will dip in your sack when you leave the room and snitch when they get caught with it. and there is always that person who you just know couldnt handle the pressure of sitting in a cell. and never deal with strangers thats just asking for it. there are more people who would turn snitch than would not these days try to isolate yourself from these people you dont need them or their business. closed circles of trustworthy people and closed mouths will go a long way one weak link in the chain is all it takes be cautious and smart trust ur gut and NEVER snitch.


i think it should be like public record on snitching (of course it never will) then if everyone would know what type of character they had. and if people knew ahead of time that just anyone could look in the news paper and see the snitch that brought the case down they might think twice. also they would have to and should live with the shame that they cant hold their own and fold up like a bitch. maybe if that ever happen more snitches would just kill themself and do the world a favor instead of replicating and passing those weak bitch ass traits on to their kids and continuing the cycle of people undeserving of living in our society.
Title: Re: When people become informants (Stacy Litz)
Post by: punkhippy on May 14, 2012, 02:00 am
Yea the US legal system is a bitch. When they got you, they got you. It takes a real stupid motherfucke to admit they ordered something just because it has your name and address on it but if that's the case, that person should keep their mouth shut and never agree to set up other people just to try to save their own ass because in reality, it wont save their ass. The police will tell you that shit but they lie. If they got some kind of evidence then it is best to eat the bullet and lawyer up. Get caught in a crime then do the time but don't agree to do anything to help them sunsofbitches
Title: Re: When people become informants (Stacy Litz)
Post by: jpinkman on May 14, 2012, 04:59 am
She seems to be a psychopath.

Sounds more like a young, dumb girl who tried to make a name for herself as the big bad rebel anarchist baller who really thought it all a game.
Title: Re: When people become informants (Stacy Litz)
Post by: ninja turtle on May 14, 2012, 05:22 am
Yea the US legal system is a bitch. When they got you, they got you. It takes a real stupid motherfucke to admit they ordered something just because it has your name and address on it but if that's the case, that person should keep their mouth shut and never agree to set up other people just to try to save their own ass because in reality, it wont save their ass. The police will tell you that shit but they lie. If they got some kind of evidence then it is best to eat the bullet and lawyer up. Get caught in a crime then do the time but don't agree to do anything to help them sunsofbitches

Exactly this, being a dog never saves you, it only puts in more danger. All the police can do is lock you up, but being a dog can get your throat slit.
Title: Re: When people become informants (Stacy Litz)
Post by: IamaLizard on May 14, 2012, 01:37 pm
A guy I know flipped on his heroin dealer at the scene of the arrest (heroin posession) and was let go with his dope as well. He was also not prompted by police to do this in any way. Goes to show that its not always impossible to help yourself out. Kid turned out to be a little bitch. It was in ATL tho and theres a bad heroin problem especially east in the bluffs (where he was popped). They just let him walk. He was shot four times in the head with a shotgun outside of the georgia dome in his car like a week later though.  LOL
Title: Re: When people become informants (Stacy Litz)
Post by: PlaneMode on May 14, 2012, 06:02 pm
How shitty are the lawyers that the states provide?
I mean, they did study law and had the pass their tests.
I guess it comes down to when the state gives you a lawyer it can be anyone, not one that studied what you are being charged with.
But are they all criminal lawyers?
Title: Re: When people become informants (Stacy Litz)
Post by: phubaiblues on May 14, 2012, 06:11 pm
How shitty are the lawyers that the states provide?
I mean, they did study law and had the pass their tests.
I guess it comes down to when the state gives you a lawyer it can be anyone, not one that studied what you are being charged with.
But are they all criminal lawyers?

Trouble is, is the 'system' totally depends on quick plea bargains, and often, for me, I'd have my head stuck between the bars, while my public defender is just telling me what they offer, then moves on to the next head between the bars....if you really want to fight you case--and don't have the knowledge to go 'pro per' --then best shot is to just hang in until bail reduction hearing, and focus all energies on getting out of jail--without copping a plea to do so, as so many do.

Once out, *then* get a reasonable criminal attorney who is willing to fight the case...this will cost a lot more money, minimum I've seen is around $5,000.  I find best shot--what I have--is real young, recently graduated attorney who is fighting traffic tickets and shit, and just wants a good criminal case.  Any case that we keep our mouths shut about, that involves SR, will be a groundbreaking case, and my lawyer said if I do get popped to give her a shout...again, as long as I don't blab to the coppers, which I don't do.

But public defenders are just plea bargainers, and sometimes, that's all you need, but if it's heavy, need a real lawyer: state's attorneys haven't the time or motivation to any serious fighting...think 'OJ Simpson,' and you see the difference...With good lawyers you can do the crime, and not do the time.  Nice.
Title: Re: When people become informants (Stacy Litz)
Post by: PlaneMode on May 14, 2012, 08:33 pm
How shitty are the lawyers that the states provide?
I mean, they did study law and had the pass their tests.
I guess it comes down to when the state gives you a lawyer it can be anyone, not one that studied what you are being charged with.
But are they all criminal lawyers?

Trouble is, is the 'system' totally depends on quick plea bargains, and often, for me, I'd have my head stuck between the bars, while my public defender is just telling me what they offer, then moves on to the next head between the bars....if you really want to fight you case--and don't have the knowledge to go 'pro per' --then best shot is to just hang in until bail reduction hearing, and focus all energies on getting out of jail--without copping a plea to do so, as so many do.

Once out, *then* get a reasonable criminal attorney who is willing to fight the case...this will cost a lot more money, minimum I've seen is around $5,000.  I find best shot--what I have--is real young, recently graduated attorney who is fighting traffic tickets and shit, and just wants a good criminal case.  Any case that we keep our mouths shut about, that involves SR, will be a groundbreaking case, and my lawyer said if I do get popped to give her a shout...again, as long as I don't blab to the coppers, which I don't do.

But public defenders are just plea bargainers, and sometimes, that's all you need, but if it's heavy, need a real lawyer: state's attorneys haven't the time or motivation to any serious fighting...think 'OJ Simpson,' and you see the difference...With good lawyers you can do the crime, and not do the time.  Nice.


Wow, thank you so much. does your lawyer know everything? I mean, they can fight a case better if they truly think your innocent, rather than already knowing you're a criminal, but then again, that's why they say lawyer have no morals huh?
 
Title: Re: When people become informants (Stacy Litz)
Post by: phubaiblues on May 15, 2012, 01:29 am
Wow, thank you so much. does your lawyer know everything? I mean, they can fight a case better if they truly think your innocent, rather than already knowing you're a criminal, but then again, that's why they say lawyer have no morals huh?

That's an excellent question--does he know everything--because I always told them everything, the way you are supposed to, and it never seemed to bother them.  I just figure that way they are prepared, but sometimes I wonder.  I think it would depend.  There might be a situation where I wanted him really believing in me....but well, generally, I would want lawyer to know it all....but I also would want to make sure I had a lawyer good enough to really go to town for me, even if I'm guilty.   Mostly want a guy who is a trial lawyer, as I said, not a guy who eats lunch with the prosecutor after trial and goes fishing with him...I've known defense attorneys who really *hated* prosecuting attorneys and that's who I want...but also, money plays a big factor over here....no money, no honey as the whores say ;)
Title: Re: When people become informants (Stacy Litz)
Post by: jpinkman on May 15, 2012, 05:12 am
Wow, thank you so much. does your lawyer know everything? I mean, they can fight a case better if they truly think your innocent, rather than already knowing you're a criminal, but then again, that's why they say lawyer have no morals huh?

That's an excellent question--does he know everything--because I always told them everything, the way you are supposed to, and it never seemed to bother them.  I just figure that way they are prepared, but sometimes I wonder.  I think it would depend.  There might be a situation where I wanted him really believing in me....but well, generally, I would want lawyer to know it all....but I also would want to make sure I had a lawyer good enough to really go to town for me, even if I'm guilty.   Mostly want a guy who is a trial lawyer, as I said, not a guy who eats lunch with the prosecutor after trial and goes fishing with him...I've known defense attorneys who really *hated* prosecuting attorneys and that's who I want...but also, money plays a big factor over here....no money, no honey as the whores say ;)

Yes, but ideally you want a lawyer that you can tell everything if you're guilty and he can consider it all from a legal perspective and coach you on what best to admit and not to, and how best to present it all so you'll get off. :)  Kind of like the "criminal" lawyer that represented the gangs in The Wire and also acted as an informal consultant.