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Discussion => Off topic => Topic started by: PurpleBalloons54 on June 05, 2013, 12:42 am

Title: Building a Regimin for Anxiety, OCD, and Depression
Post by: PurpleBalloons54 on June 05, 2013, 12:42 am
Hi All,

I'm currently in the process of building a drug regimen for, #1, Anxiety (Panic attacks and GAD); #2, Depression; #3 OCD.

This is a work-in-progress, but I figured I'd share. 

This is the result of a lot of research, and it might help others that are a few steps behind me.



Regimen #1

Monday -        (Daily Dose) +  150mg Pregabalin     
Tuesday -       (Daily Dose) +  xxxxx (.25g Psilocybin)
Wednesday -  (Daily Dose) +  150mg Pregabalin 
Thursday -      (Daily Dose) +  xxxxxx  (.25g Psilocybin)
Friday -           (Daily Dose) +  150mg Pregabalin     
Saturday -      (Daily Dose) +  xxxmg Phenibut or 60mg Baclofen
Sunday -         (Daily Dose) +  (Ketamine, 10 to 20mg insulfated, 40 to 50mg orally) or xxxmg Phenibut or 60mg Baclofen


Daily:
xxxmg Bedranol SR (aka long release propranalol)
High potency Vitamin B complex
A-Z multi-vit
High Fruit and Vegetable
Exercise
1mg Melatonin for sleep


Once per month:
2.5g Psilocybin


Once every 3 months:
120mg MDMA for therapy- socializing myself


Xanax for fast-acting needs




**Pregabalin looks promising and no tolerance, or some tolerance just in the begining.


Pregabalin     [novel CNS depressant]
Bedranol SR   [Beta blocker]
Vit B complex [GABA affector]
Ketamine       [NMDA antagonist]
Phenibut        [GABA agonist, similar to benzo mechanism with almost no side effects, but WITH tolerance and withdrawal. 
                       Use no more than 2 times a week]
Baclofen         [GABA agonist, benzo mechanism and affect.  Similar to Phenibut, with withdrawal, but with little or no tolerance.  No greater than 
                       50mg/day]
Psilocybin       [Serotonin and serotogenic agonist and Dopamine increaser]


OR



#2

Klonopin daily or occasionally



2nd option definitely has the advantage of being simpler, ha, but would be my second choice per benzo side effects.



-PB
Title: Re: Building a Regimin for Anxiety, OCD, and Depression
Post by: bunny84 on June 12, 2013, 03:57 pm
I treated my depression with shrooms n lsd .... it worked nicely .... wish they would use mdma n shrolms n lsd for things like that
Title: Re: Building a Regimin for Anxiety, OCD, and Depression
Post by: taz7 on June 12, 2013, 06:24 pm
They did used too use them in a clinical setting , some still do rarely I think .
 
There are still many advocates for both mdma and l.s.d as as a short term treatment - all 3 of those helped me , but I advise caution with l.s.d - while it can be the most beneficial in some cases - it can go the other way sometimes  - also many antidepressants inhibit l.s.d's effects while others ( trycillics mostly ) can do the opposite .

Good to see you sharing your work , I hope it works well for you =)
Title: Re: Building a Regimin for Anxiety, OCD, and Depression
Post by: PurpleBalloons54 on June 20, 2013, 11:54 pm
Hi All,

I'm currently in the process of building a drug regimen for, #1, Anxiety (Panic attacks and GAD); #2, Depression; #3 OCD.

This is a work-in-progress, but I figured I'd share.

This is the result of a lot of research, and it might help others that are a few steps behind me.




My Regimen plan has changed quite a bit.

I'm going to stick with the SSRI I've been taking (Citalopram), and ride it for a while to see how it goes.

From what I've read the SSRI could be a problem with the beta blocker (Propranalol), will interfere with the Psilocybin, and is dangerous with MDMA.

I've had 2nd thoughts about Pregabalin per side-effects and cost.

The Baclofen is too expensive for my tastes.



So here is what I'll be doing for the time being:


New Regimen:

Monday -        (Daily Dose) +  .25 or .5mg Klonopin
Tuesday -       (Daily Dose) +  xxxxmg Phenibut
Wednesday -  (Daily Dose) +  5mg Valium
Thursday -      (Daily Dose) +  xxxxmg Phenibut
Friday -           (Daily Dose) +  .25 or .5mg Klonopin
Saturday -      (Daily Dose) +  Ketamine, 30mg insulfated
Sunday -         (Daily Dose) +  Nothing


Daily:
Vitamin B complex
Niacin High dosage (1500mg)
A-Z multi-vit
15mg Citalopram
Theanine, 200mg in the morning
High Fruit and Vegetables
Lots of water
Exercise
1mg Melatonin for sleep




Removed:

(Once per month:
2.5g Psilocybin

Once every 3 months:
120mg MDMA for therapy- socializing myself)





**Pregabalin looks promising and no tolerance, or some tolerance just in the begining.


Niacin             [Complicated affectation in the brain]
Theanine       [Increases GABA, dopamine, and others]
Citalopram     [SSRI]
Pregabalin     [novel CNS depressant]
Bedranol SR   [Beta blocker]
Vit B complex [GABA affector]
Ketamine       [NMDA antagonist]
Phenibut        [GABA agonist, similar to benzo mechanism with almost no side effects, but WITH tolerance and withdrawal.
                       Use no more than 2 times a week]
Baclofen         [GABA agonist, benzo mechanism and affect.  Similar to Phenibut, with withdrawal, but with little or no tolerance.  No greater than
                       50mg/day]
Psilocybin       [Serotonin and serotogenic agonist and Dopamine increaser]




Current affects:

I notice a reduction in Generalized Anxiety in every-day life. 

During work, with only my Daily dose, and no benzos, I have reduced generalized anxiety but basically all the other anxiety is still there and still makes my "working time" quite unpleasant.  OCD isn't being affected by the Daily Dose at work, but I think is reduced somewhat out of work to where it's more manageable.


Lately I've been in a state of mind from which I can actually change my thinking, rather than being bound up in circular thinking/feelings.  I think this is due to both the SSRI and the Ketamine.

Additionally I'm more "pleasant" mentally and more emotional (even though still generally uncomfortable).  I think this is due mostly to the SSRI.


I recently (a week ago) had a "moment" that I truly enjoyed.  I don't ever remember having that- I've always had an underlying feeling of unpleasantness.  It was encouraging.  I don't know what specifically allowed that to happen, but I haven't had anything like that since.  It occurred a handful of days after taking a small (and my first) Ketamine dose.  I'm looking forward to having my full regimen rolling for a few weeks to see how it goes.



-PB
Title: Re: Building a Regimin for Anxiety, OCD, and Depression
Post by: BoxofShapes on June 21, 2013, 03:52 am
How much exercise if I can ask?

Also, this is admirable!
Title: Re: Building a Regimin for Anxiety, OCD, and Depression
Post by: ImAz on June 21, 2013, 04:15 am
For my bi-polar, panic attacks and GAD with a touch of OCD

Daily

I take bupropion XL 150mg x1
Zoloft 50mg caps x 3
Seroquel 25mg pills x 4

Monthly

Magic Truffles - 7g x2

Bi-monthly

MDMA - does varies, depending on mood 75-200+ x1

Daily exercise  - walking 2-3 miles, stretching (yoga, tai chi) every hour or two. And before bed, the 7 min workout... http://www.7-min.com/

And weed/hash/oil everyday when on hand...do not drink booze

All this and I still hate going out in social situations...and have many shitty days.
 
Mostly level...no highs/no lows and I guess that is what all this shit is meant to do...level me out. (✖╭╮✖)

Title: Re: Building a Regimin for Anxiety, OCD, and Depression
Post by: PurpleBalloons54 on June 22, 2013, 11:23 pm
How much exercise if I can ask?

Also, this is admirable!

Thanks Box.

I'm averaging around 15 miles per day biking, with some upper-body work interspersed; but biking is my hobby and transportation, and I don't think tons of exercise is necessary for a significant affect on mood.

If I bike a ton but don't have my fruits and vegetables it has a big negative affect on my mood.


Update:   I had a work day yesterday and took .25mg Klonopin and noticed a significant effect- the work day wasn't torture.  The effect lasted for what seemed like the projected time for Klon to work (around 8 hours).  So it was really cool, but it's hard for me to be excited about it with the benzo tolerance "string attached".  I'm saving excitement until my regimen proves itself to not build tolerance for a fair amount of time.  I'll do the full regimen next week and see how I feel. 

My #1 goal is to be able to hold down a job long-term.  Bought some books on worrying and OCD that I'm going to work through.



-PB
Title: Re: Building a Regimin for Anxiety, OCD, and Depression
Post by: The Scientist on June 23, 2013, 04:32 am
What about cannabis (specifically, a strain of weed with high CBD, low THC)?
Title: Re: Building a Regimin for Anxiety, OCD, and Depression
Post by: ImAz on June 23, 2013, 05:10 am
What about cannabis (specifically, a strain of weed with high CBD, low THC)?

For me...I smoke any weed I can get...ATM, I am smoking hash oil. But it is all good for me and makes everything good..
Title: Re: Building a Regimin for Anxiety, OCD, and Depression
Post by: The Scientist on June 23, 2013, 05:35 am
good... the CBD has anxiolytic (anti-anxiety) properties.... unlike THC which can cause anxiety.

It would be interesting to see what effects CBD has on human pathological anxiety.
Title: Re: Building a Regimin for Anxiety, OCD, and Depression
Post by: PurpleBalloons54 on July 01, 2013, 09:54 pm
Minor update:

This is after going a couple weeks with the benzos and phenibut and working a few of those days.  I'm very impressed with how well klonopin (.25mg) "kills" my anxiety at work.  I worked with a guy a couple months ago using nothing, and working today on the klonopin was like night and day!  I recognized some nervous-producing thoughts, but they were less present, and the thoughts didn't culminate into almost any anxiety.  If I could get something like that daily without building tolerance*... oh my, I would be as happy as many clams (all of them being happy).

The valium worked well (the one work day I used it) but at this time I can't confidently report on how well. 

The Phenibut I've dosed at 1g total (500mg x2) on two days so far while not working and I can't say I felt any affect from it, so I'm going to up the dose to 1.5g.


* Speaking of which, holy crap there's GABA reuptake inhibitors and one listed as a selective GRI (Tiagabine):

Clearnet:   http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1435649/

Per Tiagabine, example of treatment:

"A 32-year-old man with a lifetime history of “shyness” and performance anxiety met the Diagnostic Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders DSM-IV-TR (Text Revision) criteria for GAD and had a Beck Anxiety Inventory (BAI) score of 21, indicating mild-to-moderate anxiety.The following popper user interface control may not be accessible. Tab to the next button to revert the control to an accessible version.Destroy user interface control[13] The patient was initially treated with buspirone 10 mg 3 times daily for approximately 1 month and experienced increased anxiety, insomnia, restlessness, and mild shortness of breath. When considering optional therapies, he specifically requested a “nonaddictive” antianxiety agent that was not associated with anorgasmia or other sexual side effects. Tiagabine was initiated at 1 mg at bedtime, which resulted in a 3-point drop in the BAI score to 18 within 1 day. After 5 days, the tiagabine dose was increased to 1 mg in the morning and 3 mg at bedtime, resulting in a 14-point drop in his BAI score to 4. At tiagabine 2 mg in the morning and 4 mg at bedtime, the patient reported no symptoms of anxiety and had a normal BAI score of 5. The anxiolytic effect of tiagabine 6 mg/day has been sustained for over 5 months."


-PB
Title: Re: Building a Regimin for Anxiety, OCD, and Depression
Post by: PurpleBalloons54 on August 21, 2013, 12:50 am
Update:


My SSRI dosage has been upped gradually.  I'm currently at 20 mg/day.  I think I'm getting a positive effect from it per depression (or from ketamine)*, as in I don't crash into a downward cycle anymore.  Per anxiety I have to say I'm not feeling any reduction due to the SSRI.  My psychiatrist has said that most users don't gain a significant reduction of GAD until they hit 40 mg/day.  I'm planning on getting to 40 mg/day as soon as possible to test if the ssri can be a true substitute for a benzo regimen.***

*Edit:  I'm continuing the micro-dose of ketamine once per week, and my reduction in "depression" may also be due to that.



Benzos (all reports regard usage during work days)

Klonopin has a huge affect on my work days that I use it.  The anxiety squelching is almost total, allowing me to think and act clearer, not being overwhelmed by my anxiety.  I'm still taking .25 mg / day for 3 days out the week.

I'm not impressed with Valium.  I'm sure there is some anxiety reduction with it, but it doesn't seem to work well for me.  I dose 10 mg / day.  Maybe I'm dosing too high?  I'll try it at 5 mg at the middle of my work day and see what happens.

Phenibut dosing at 1g / day (500mg x2) had no noticeable effect.  I upped the dose to 1.8 g / day and didn't feel anxiety reduction, yet I was more talkative and displayed a more positive attitude towards the end of the day- as if I was drunk without stumbling around.  I'll keep trying this dose to get a confident feel for how it affects me.  I may up my dose to 2.5 g / day in the future as a test.



Per tolerance:

Mildly disturbing discovery,

I have been dosing Monday to Friday, and using no GABA increasers / system affectors on Saturday and Sunday.  After about a month of this I went on a week vacation and decided to "go clean" for the entire week.  I was off "GABAs" Saturday and Sunday as usual.  Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday I felt excessive anxiety, and I know it was from tolerance build-up (after about Wednesday I felt that I had "leveled off", and though I experienced GAD, I felt it was approximately at my normal level).  This was concerning.  It showed me that a simple 2 days off per week is not sufficient to come down from a tolerance build-up and that I needed to build into my regimen longer periods of non-usage for GABAs.  I plan on going off all GABAs 1 week of every month.  I'm willing to bear with the increased anxiety on those weeks, long-term, knowing that it's part of my regimen.  I may also try eliminating my general GABA increasers- Niacin, Thiamine, Vitamin B complex- for long periods to see how that is, and if it significantly decreases tolerance build-up.



Overall:  I think that these medications are stepping stones-  tools to help me change who I am, and I think they are.  I don't think they are the solution, just help to get to the solution.  Of course this opinion will only become validated if in the future I'm off of everything and "hold the solution".


As a side note, I've started CBT therapy, as that seems the best (by far) way to reduce anxiety.


-PB
Title: Re: Building a Regimin for Anxiety, OCD, and Depression
Post by: Vanquish on August 21, 2013, 01:33 am
Klonopin has a huge affect on my work days that I use it.  The anxiety squelching is almost total, allowing me to think and act clearer, not being overwhelmed by my anxiety.  I'm still taking .25 mg / day for 3 days out the week.

I'm not impressed with Valium.  I'm sure there is some anxiety reduction with it, but it doesn't seem to work well for me.  I dose 10 mg / day.  Maybe I'm dosing too high?  I'll try it at 5 mg at the middle of my work day and see what happens.

Phenibut dosing at 1g / day (500mg x2) had no noticeable effect.  I upped the dose to 1.8 g / day and didn't feel anxiety reduction, yet I was more talkative and displayed a more positive attitude towards the end of the day- as if I was drunk without stumbling around.  I'll keep trying this dose to get a confident feel for how it affects me.  I may up my dose to 2.5 g / day in the future as a test.

Valium and Klonopin are eerily similar, but they do effect people slightly different.
They both seem to have roughly the same muscle-relaxant properties.
Valium is much more clear headed, yet doesn't provide the high anxiolytic properties to go along with it.
Klonopin for me is well rounded, but leaves my head slightly foggy and hits my memory pretty hard.
Both are almost equivalent on their list of effects and actions.
The long half-life of Valium makes it still the overall preferred method of tapering and they both are great for seizure prevention.
TLDR - Find the one that works best for you and stick with it.

Sorry, didn't mean to turn this into a huge long rant.
According to the Ashton Manual, 1mg Xanax/Klonopin = 20mg Valiuum
So adjust your dosing accordingly.

Phenibut works amazing, but you really need to combine it with some type of stimulant.
Caffeine works fine, anything stronger and just be careful to adjust for the added potency.
This is the most detailed and accurate information on Phenibut on the internet.
Check it out.
*clearnet warning* http://www.gll-getalife.com/2013/02/phenibut-review/

Best of luck, I'd like to expand on these thoughts later.
But need to head out for now.
Peace.

Vanquish
Title: Re: Building a Regimin for Anxiety, OCD, and Depression
Post by: PurpleBalloons54 on August 22, 2013, 11:13 pm
Yeah, so my potency in dosage isn't far off between Klonopin and Valium.  So far Valium is a flop for me.  I dosed 5mg yesterday for a social activity yesterday and wasn't pleased with the effect.  Klonopin has me clear-headed with basically no anxiety while working- this at .25 mg for the day.  The half-life of Valium is a concern of mine per tolerance build-up.  Except for tapering I think for anything with a "full day" of effect, the lower the half-life the better.

Thanks for the Phenibut link.  I've had coffee on my Phenibut days.  I'm guessing Phenibut just doesn't work well for me, but I'm going to stick with it for a while.


Edit:  I haven't taken Phenibut on an empty stomach, so I'm going to give that a go.


-PB
Title: Re: Building a Regimin for Anxiety, OCD, and Depression
Post by: PurpleBalloons54 on August 29, 2013, 10:38 pm
I've noticed that a week of no GABAs is helpful-  I am too comfortable on my GABA weeks.  A week off helps me push my envelope for growth.

Ketamine/addiction:  I have an addictive personality.  That being said I lost my stash of ketamine recently, and found I was trying to find it with excessive energy and stress.  I have been using it every weekend in a micro-dose.  I've acquired a small but significant psychological addiction from my habitual use of it so I'm going to take a break from it for now.


A note on Klonopin/Clonazepam:

I consider, for myself, that the benzo Klonopin/Clonazepam is a nootropic, because when I'm on it I can consider things, be mentally able to handle whatever is happening, etc.  It's a quick way at the moment to quiet my bat-shit brain, allowing me to focus better.


-PB
Title: Re: Building a Regimin for Anxiety, OCD, and Depression
Post by: PurpleBalloons54 on September 14, 2013, 09:41 pm
I've made good progress recently due to multiple areas.

These include:

Being on a path of (getting help for) changing my work and schooling situation, that I feel I need to be on (gives optimism, a sense of direction),

Productive therapy (required me to be truly committed AND have a quality therapist and one that I "clicked" with),

Heavy (relative) socializing, including healthy physical touch- attending multiple self-help groups, attending a dance class where dance partners are continually swapping.



I'm moving forward in my life; this wouldn't be possible without the drugs that I'm on (SSRI), and that I know are available if I need them (GABAs).

I'm now using my GABA days for max 2 days / week for only when I feel I need it (highest anxiety days that threaten to wreck me, e.g., I don't show up and spiral downward).

I'm using less of GABAs to allow the highest amount of anxiety that is "doable" so I can make real progress (in connecting with myself, coping in a healthy way, changing my thought patterns, etc). 



Recently I've found:

I take long bike rides, and combining putting myself into very uncomfortable situations plus going on these long bike rides afterwards helps a bunch as far as growth in processing things in my head/emotions.

Lots of water, a low amount of sugar and salt is very helpful.



Note:  I'm still, happily, at .25mg Klonopin/Clonazepam when I use it.



-PB
Title: Re: Building a Regimin for Anxiety, OCD, and Depression
Post by: PurpleBalloons54 on September 26, 2013, 11:33 pm
Little Update:

I've realized that I went a little too far in going just 2 days / week on GABA affectors.  The consequence was for me to be overwhelmed to the point of not making progress.


I see this now as a balancing act-  To take enough "GABA" to allow me to function, learn new life skills, process through life, but to not take so much that I become "comfortable" and no longer driven to change myself (e.g., to learn healthy thought processing or coping skills to prevent or deal with anxiety).


Cheers,
PB