Silk Road forums
Discussion => Silk Road discussion => Topic started by: Hash on March 07, 2013, 01:12 am
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Hey folks,
Everybody who is worried that what they wanted to buy this weekend is about to be all screwed up cause of the BTC market.
Please stop.
Please calm down and also don't go freaking buying goofy ass shit cause you think you're money is gonna disappear if you don't!
The Bitcoin Price does NOT effect how much you pay on SR (as long as your vendor is "hedged")
If you were just looking at an item that cost $120 this morning.
That very same item still costs $120....
the only thing that changes is the amount of bitcoins you give. but the fundamental Product Price remains the same.
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Why don't I understand this concept?
Lets say I bought my coin at $10/per coin. I have deposit $100 and now have 10 coins
Now the price of coin drops to $5/per coin. Don't my 10 coins now value only $5/each? The price of a $100 item WAS 10 coins and now its going to require 20 coins at current market value. I'm assuming the vendors are set up to fluctuate with current market value, but the coins I still have on the road were bought at a different value. What am I missing?
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You're not missing anything.
In fact I think you re-stated pretty much everything.
You're just having a panic attack cause you think you lost all your money.
Just trust me. Tomorrow, the $100 item you were watching today..... it will still cost $100 tomorrow. ( give or take $5)
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Why don't I understand this concept?
Lets say I bought my coin at $10/per coin. I have deposit $100 and now have 10 coins
Now the price of coin drops to $5/per coin. Don't my 10 coins now value only $5/each? The price of a $100 item WAS 10 coins and now its going to require 20 coins at current market value. I'm assuming the vendors are set up to fluctuate with current market value, but the coins I still have on the road were bought at a different value. What am I missing?
You are right. That is why you should spend your coins as soon as you get them. They could drop in price causing you to have to go and buy more coins
Do not hold on to your coins for longer than it takes you to get them, unles of course you are buying them as an investment.
-Hash is also correct, he is trying to explain that a 100 USD item is going to be 100USD no matter how many bitcoins it takes to buy it
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In fact it would be interesting to know how many people tried to rush out and purchase crap for as cheap as they could.
We're supposed to be a community here right?
Most of us are grown adults and understand that money does not come from nowhere.
Think those price fluctuation just happened?
No they were taken out of a vendor's pocket.
Yet I keep seeing people bragging how cheap they got something.
Shame on them!
Isn't that like printing your own coupons to Wal-mart? (no disprespect to the coupon vendors)
Stealing from the Vendors who take such good care of people?
I hope Vendors Cancel Orders in which they lost money due to BTC Price Flux.
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Why don't I understand this concept?
Lets say I bought my coin at $10/per coin. I have deposit $100 and now have 10 coins
Now the price of coin drops to $5/per coin. Don't my 10 coins now value only $5/each? The price of a $100 item WAS 10 coins and now its going to require 20 coins at current market value. I'm assuming the vendors are set up to fluctuate with current market value, but the coins I still have on the road were bought at a different value. What am I missing?
You are right. That is why you should spend your coins as soon as you get them. They could drop in price causing you to have to go and buy more coinage.
Do not hold on to your coins for longer than it takes you to get them, unles of course you are buying them as an investment.
No disprespect,
But I HIGHLY disadvise this!
I made 1500 dollars by doing nothing when btc jumped from 15 to 35
The ONLY reason this was possible was because i sat on my coins.
Bitcoin is limited.
You cannot MINT a bitcoin.
Once they are all mined.
There will never ever ever be more released.
Bitcoin, similar to gold, platinum, and silver.... is a Rare item which can only get more rare.
remember that.
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Why don't I understand this concept?
Lets say I bought my coin at $10/per coin. I have deposit $100 and now have 10 coins
Now the price of coin drops to $5/per coin. Don't my 10 coins now value only $5/each? The price of a $100 item WAS 10 coins and now its going to require 20 coins at current market value. I'm assuming the vendors are set up to fluctuate with current market value, but the coins I still have on the road were bought at a different value. What am I missing?
You are right. That is why you should spend your coins as soon as you get them. They could drop in price causing you to have to go and buy more coinage.
Do not hold on to your coins for longer than it takes you to get them, unles of course you are buying them as an investment.
No disprespect,
But I HIGHLY disadvise this!
I made 1500 dollars by doing nothing when btc jumped from 15 to 35
The ONLY reason this was possible was because i sat on my coins.
Bitcoin is limited.
You cannot MINT a bitcoin.
Once they are all mined.
There will never ever ever be more released.
Bitcoin, similar to gold, platinum, and silver.... is a Rare item which can only get more rare.
remember that.
Yes, you sat on them, making it an investment. So like i said, unless you plan on turning it into an investment, spend them.
People who want to buy a 100 dollars worth a weed probably dont want to wait an extra week to see if they can buy 150 dollars worth of weed. They want it as soon as possible.
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One should NEVER put money onto Silk Road unless they are willing to lose it.
Your package could be seized.
You could get scammed.
Your account could get phished (if you're dumb)
There could be a mistake in SR accounting and you lose some.
Worse yet, you could be arrested and everything in your ownership which you can't prove was paid for with your real Job can be seized for as little as owning a scale and some packing supplies, what are you gonna say "no i wasn't vending?"
For those of us who live in the USA and have been to prison, you know that the law goes "Guilty Until Proven Innocent." How can a person be kept detained during an entire court procedure if they are Presumed Innocent? If you can't pay your bail, that's what happens to your during your 12-24 month court case.
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hash u trying to help but u dont get t either the hedge has fuckall to do with buyers unless your order is cancelled .its for sellers
if u buy 10 coins at $10 each and they hit sr there still worth $10 but u dont buy ,then tommorow there dropped to being worth $5 that thing that cost $100 still costs $100 but your bits are now worth $50 so u carnt afford it u need to buy more
this works other way so if u bought bits yesterday u can now buy double the amount of drugs u were going to coz they doubled .if they halved u wouldnt be able to buy or have to buy half amount
hedging means fuckal to buyers .spend coins as soon as u get em or your basiclly playing the market u win if they go up or lose if down
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What are you talking about Hash, and how high are you? Where did the talk about getting arrested come up? Prison? fucking gibberish and irrelevant to the OP
I give up.
Can someone else read through this and tell me if it is me or Hash who is not making sense.
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hash u trying to help but u dont get t either the hedge has fuckall to do with buyers unless your order is cancelled .its for sellers
if u buy 10 coins at $10 each and they hit sr there still worth $10 but u dont buy ,then tommorow there dropped to being worth $5 that thing that cost $100 still costs $100 but your bits are now worth $50 so u carnt afford it u need to buy more
this works other way so if u bought bits yesterday u can now buy double the amount of drugs u were going to coz they doubled .if they halved u wouldnt be able to buy or have to buy half amount
hedging means fuckal to buyers .spend coins as soon as u get em or your basiclly playing the market u win if they go up or lose if down
Why don't I understand this concept?
Lets say I bought my coin at $10/per coin. I have deposit $100 and now have 10 coins
Now the price of coin drops to $5/per coin. Don't my 10 coins now value only $5/each? The price of a $100 item WAS 10 coins and now its going to require 20 coins at current market value. I'm assuming the vendors are set up to fluctuate with current market value, but the coins I still have on the road were bought at a different value. What am I missing?
You are right. That is why you should spend your coins as soon as you get them. They could drop in price causing you to have to go and buy more coinage.
Do not hold on to your coins for longer than it takes you to get them, unles of course you are buying them as an investment.
No disprespect,
But I HIGHLY disadvise this!
I made 1500 dollars by doing nothing when btc jumped from 15 to 35
The ONLY reason this was possible was because i sat on my coins.
Bitcoin is limited.
You cannot MINT a bitcoin.
Once they are all mined.
There will never ever ever be more released.
Bitcoin, similar to gold, platinum, and silver.... is a Rare item which can only get more rare.
remember that.
Yes, you sat on them, making it an investment. So like i said, unless you plan on turning it into an investment, spend them. People who want to buy a 100 dollars worth a weed probably dont want to wait an extra week to see if they can buy 150 dollars worth of weed. They want it as soon as possible.
Yes. you are correct.
Please listen.
You purchase $100 of coins today. @40 dollars
The value tomorrow falls to 30 dollars per coin.
The item on silk road for which you had intended on spending the $100
Still costs $100 tomorrow.
Ok?
I understand where you're coming from. You're advising him, that if he is cutting it close (expected order of 5.56 but he only buys 5.60 coins) then that person would want to spend immediately because a small flux could cause that person to come up short by .05 or something ridiculous. BUT the question is.... did you lose money?
and the answer is no
you just cant buy the drug you wanted.
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I think we all know that the listing is still going to be listed at the same price tomorrow. The question is whether or not the btc in my wallet are still worth what I paid for them or not. In the above scenario, buying 10 bitcoins at 10$ each, you have 100$ in your btc wallet. But if the price drops to 5$ per btc, you only have 50$ in your wallet, but paid 100$ for it, therefore, assuming the price never goes back up, you just lost half your money. And no, I suppose that is not directly tied to how much you pay for drugs, but given that most people here are buying btc specifically to buy drugs, it absolutely indirectly effects how much you pay for drugs.
That being said I think the dip this afternoon evened back out. Its risky, but I have a small amount that I am keeping in btc - around 15 btcs, and hope to be able to add to it... its certainly not much, but as long as nothing crashes too terribly much, I have made money.. My listing says x$ usd, I paid x$ usd via btc, but how much did I really pay for my drugs, considering I bought these btc close to market value several weeks ago?? How much would I be paying for my drugs if I had done this several months ago?? (Note, I am NOT keeping these btc in my SR account......)
GRRRR>....... Ive tried posting this 8 times.... NO, i do NOT wish to review the new post, just post please!!!
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Well you COULD go into Account Settings... and switch Bitcoin Vew to USD view.
It matters to me none at all if you wanna go about things in a state of panic like you've lost something.
But $100 on the road yesterday = $100 on the road today = $100 on the road tomorrow.
Now you wont ever see a bitcoin again and all the prices for your drugs will be in USD.
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Yes. you are correct.
Please listen.
You purchase $100 of coins today. @40 dollars
The value tomorrow falls to 30 dollars per coin.
The item on silk road for which you had intended on spending the $100
Still costs $100 tomorrow.
Ok?
I understand where you're coming from. You're advising him, that if he is cutting it close (expected order of 5.56 but he only buys 5.60 coins) then that person would want to spend immediately because a small flux could cause that person to come up short by .05 or something ridiculous. BUT the question is.... did you lose money?
and the answer is no
you just cant buy the drug you wanted.
Here is the thing tho
YES, you did lose USD aka money! The item you had (Bitcoin) is no longer worth the same USD that you bought it for. that is a loss of money to me. Sure you still have the same amount of bitcoins but you most certainly did lose money if the price of a bitcoin drops.
If i buy 1 coin and it is worth 100usd and tomorrow the price of 1 Bitcoin is worth 90 United States Dollars, i most certainly have lost 10 USD
---If you read my very first reply to you i was agreeing with you and kleopatra. You were both talking about different things!
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the dollar price stays the same the bit changes so if u hang on to them u might aswell have em in mtgox coz your just betting on market going up
i dont think u get it but somehow your title makes sense and most carnt grasp that but u got the title right even though u dont get it at all thinking its coz of hedging and putting your acc in dollars has anything to do with it
a broken clock is right twice a day i suppose
the titles only right if u spend em rapid though and there worth what u paid
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So You're actually worried that bitcoin value is going to drop and stay dropped?
Here we are 4 less than the max price of 49 today
Be prepared for scares.
I really doubt that coin value will keep falling.
The number of blocks times the coin value of a block is the number of coins in existence. The coin value of a block is 50 BTC for each of the first 210,000 blocks, 25 BTC for the next 210,000 blocks, then 12.5 BTC, 6.25 BTC and so on. (source = clearnet https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/FAQ#What.27s_the_current_total_number_of_bitcoins_in_existence.3F)
This goes on to show that as more blocks are broken.... the less the blocks are worth.
Until mining yields no return.
Pretty sure bitcoin will keep getting more rare. But that's my opinion
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ya and each time it halves the difficulty of mining goes up.
You obviously do not know what you are talking about.
You are telling me to sit on my coins instead of buying any drugs from you, because the price is going to go up. i guess thats what i will do.
Please slowly read every post in this thread and then tell me that anything i have said is wrong. This went from me agreeing with you and trying to help explain to others what you are saying, to me realizing what a complete idiot you are.
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im not worried about it dropping no ,i dont have any if i paid 40+ then yes id spend em and be worried it would crash
i know fuckall about em and havent bought any since they were £3-£7 months ago only just com back here and just read forum every now and then,but in the year i looked reg they went from 3 up to 15 back to 5 etc etc.the yank gov/money men will be playing games with the price
il give u a horse for tommorow though 25/1 ish if u like betting
tiger o toole 3.00 wincanton
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To sum: hedged order means once order is placed the value of that order in fiat currency (USD, Euro, etc) is LOCKED in and will remain the same regardless of BTC price changes.
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Yes. you are correct.
Please listen.
You purchase $100 of coins today. @40 dollars
The value tomorrow falls to 30 dollars per coin.
The item on silk road for which you had intended on spending the $100
Still costs $100 tomorrow.
Ok?
Yes, the item you want to buy still costs $100, but you no longer have $100 in your account. So, saying "BTC prices have NOTHING to do with how much you pay for drugs!!!!" isn't entirely true. To make that $100 purchase, you're now going to have to go buy more BTC. This is why, as CrazyBart pointed out, it's advisable (as a buyer) to spend your coins as soon as you get them.
GRRRR>....... Ive tried posting this 8 times.... NO, i do NOT wish to review the new post, just post please!!!
This annoyed the shit out of me, too. Go to Profile>Modify Profile>Look and Layout... then check the box for "Don't warn on new replies made while posting" ;)
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No matter how many times this truism is stated, people will continue to make useless threads about "Vendors charging too much".
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Bitcoin is limited.
You cannot MINT a bitcoin.
Once they are all mined.
There will never ever ever be more released.
Bitcoin, similar to gold, platinum, and silver.... is a Rare item which can only get more rare.
remember that.
you act like there wont be another technology like bitcoin released in the future. GL with your master plan, but for the simple reason that nobody really knows who has most of the bitcoins, I'm not about to put my faith in that. I'll continue to buy them as I need them, occasionally putting like 30-40 extra dollars in just because I know the price has been rising.
I'm just saying, I remember when these things were 10 a btc and I've only been on here like 4-5 months. I mean, whats the deal with those ASIC Miners or w/e I thought they were supposed to revolutionize everything or so their pre-buyers said.
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As usual someone that THINKS they know what they are talking about makes a HUGE error.
Hedged orders mean NOTHING for the buyer at all. NOTHING!!!
That only has to do with the vendor. The vendor can pay 6% to hedge is order. That means where the customer buys something for 1 btc and at the exact time that btc is worth $40 then whenever the buyer finalizes the vendor will get $40 for that order... Even if the btc has fallen to $20 per btc... Also if the btc had gone up to $50 then that vendor STILL gets's $40 ...so hedging only works for the vendor if they want to lock up the exact price at the time they sold their item... vendors have done this in the past because some orders could take 2 weeks for the buyer to finalize and in that time the btc could have gone down x %....but in the last 9+ months...the btc has only gone up...so if you were to hedge...all you did was lose 6%.
Now for the buyer...when you get your btc...and you pay $40 a piece...just use them that day! Thats it! and you wont lose any value...or because the btc has only gone up...you could choose to gamble and hold on to them to try and make some money...but that would not be very smart..as you bought the btc to buy drugs...not to invest.
At the end of the day...with the btc being $45+ for the last 10 days...even if it falls a few dollars...that is a small %....so it is not that big a deal.
Where as a few months ago...when it was $15...and it fell to $9...that is a HUGE drop % wise...
So again...just buy your btc and use them..and you will be just fine..
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I have to disagree. I made some nice money holding on to bitcoins. So I wouldn't say its stupid to hold on to them.
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I have to disagree. I made some nice money holding on to bitcoins. So I wouldn't say its stupid to hold on to them.
I say it is stupid to hold onto them because EVERYONE on here only buys them to use them to make purchases on here...so my message was to them...and for them it is stupid to hang on to them...they should get them and use them right away..that way they lose nothing if the price were to go down....and this whole thread is only about that...this thread was never about " should I hold onto btc to make money"
If you read all the post in this thread then you would realize this thread was not about if you should or should not hold onto btc and if you did... could you make money...the fact is the last 11 months..if at anytime you purchased btc then you would have "made" money holding onto them...again that is not the point...
I only commented because the author of this thread gave wrong information...and also because SO MANY people do not understand that the price they pay for btc makes no difference at all..and again the OP was making that point and did a good job of explaining it but made a major error...as people would be looking for items that were hedged...
So for you to say you disagree with what I said...is taking just a little part of my post completely out of context....it is also taking into account what you have done before and what happened at that time...and that has no bearing on the future and what would happen then...so just because you held onto btc and you made money does not mean that will happen in the future... and so I stick by what I said...Buy BTC..then use it..and if you do..then you will ahve no worries at all if the price go's up or down :)
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My bad RX king, I did misunderstand your post. I thought you ment it was a bad idea in general. I see what you are saying.
Yea I got scared the price was going to drop after such a rapid increase that I cashed out.
Funny thing was my short "investment" wasn't even intentional. When I first got here had a hard time finding a seller that would work with new people. While I was looking I saw the value of my coins rise.
But no I wouldn't look at it as a long term investment. Imho the will come down at some point.
Anyway, my post was more to make a funny hence the smiley. It wasn't my intent to offend or annoy you in any way.
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I've thought about this, the value of bitcoin. Here are some conclusions. There will only be 21 million coins when they're all available, right? I figure the more people use bitcoin, that is the more it is accepted in the marketplace in general (far beyond drugs), then the larger proportion of the world economy will be taken up by bitcoin.
Say it gets to 1% of the total world trade; then if that is, just taking a number out of my hat, 2 trillion dollars or equivalent, then bitcoin will account for 20 billion dollars of world trade. 21 million coins, 20 billion dollars, gives some 952 us dollars per bitcoin. (I just modified my post as I had made a dumb math mistake.)
If it were to get to 10% of world trade, that would put bitcoin at close to $10,000 dollars per coin! Course I don't know the value of total world trade, so this is highly approximate. If somebody knows the real number, please jump in.
Does my logic seem flawed in any way? I invite critiques, by all means.
But this is not in my opinion the only engine of bitcoin's increase in value. The other is the real possibility that fiat money will be in a sense worthless (it will crash, all currencies, not just the dollar) in the not too distant future. This will make the attractiveness of bitcoin all the greater, and make it even more valuable as compared to all currencies, although probably not compared to precious metals like gold and silver. These two will increase incredibly in value as these things play out.
goblin
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Everything you say is true, goblin, but the thing about unpredictable future events is that they are, well, unpredictable. I think the biggest danger is bit coin being superseded by some new software, in the same way that say line wire has vanished since BitTorrent came on scene. But something totally unexpected could happen. In the short to medium term bit coins seem a fairly safe bet, although I expect there will be panics and crashes along the way. But whether we get to the 10% of world trade point seems very much in doubt!