Silk Road forums

Discussion => Security => Topic started by: goblin on March 19, 2012, 03:15 pm

Title: How safe is it to send bitcoins to your computer's wallet?
Post by: goblin on March 19, 2012, 03:15 pm
Hi, out there, I want to know if it isn't rather dangerous, in the sense that it could lead back to you, to send bitcoins from, say, an online wallet like Vibanko, to your bitcoin program's wallet in your computer? Or does it depend on how many twists and turns your bitcoins have made since you acquired them or taken them out of your SR account, etc.? Does using bitcoinfog or some other BTC laundry make it impossible to trace those coins back to your computer's wallet?

Thanks, friends.
Title: Re: How safe is it to send bitcoins to your computer's wallet?
Post by: QTC on March 19, 2012, 03:17 pm
if your computer is behind Tor it will not link it to your IP address but the transfer history may still be linkable to you. And yes, mixing services like fog/laundry will make it extremely difficult to follow the blockchain, that's why they exist. :-)
Title: Re: How safe is it to send bitcoins to your computer's wallet?
Post by: goblin on March 19, 2012, 03:54 pm
if your computer is behind Tor it will not link it to your IP address but the transfer history may still be linkable to you. And yes, mixing services like fog/laundry will make it extremely difficult to follow the blockchain, that's why they exist. :-)

Hi, thank you, QTC, I appreciate being answered by a senior member. Just one thing, though: my understanding is that the bitcoin software can't run inside tor. Did I hear wrong? I mean, the wallet is generated by the software and so must reside inside it. But if it can't run inside tor, then doesn't that mean that  it's not hidden by it? I apologize if I'm being naive because of lack of experience, feel free to put me in my place!
Title: Re: How safe is it to send bitcoins to your computer's wallet?
Post by: oso on March 19, 2012, 05:06 pm

Hi, thank you, QTC, I appreciate being answered by a senior member. Just one thing, though: my understanding is that the bitcoin software can't run inside tor. Did I hear wrong? I mean, the wallet is generated by the software and so must reside inside it. But if it can't run inside tor, then doesn't that mean that  it's not hidden by it? I apologize if I'm being naive because of lack of experience, feel free to put me in my place!

Goto your Bitcoin wallets Settings-->Options

There should be a radio section that says "connect through sock4 proxy" , check it.

127.0.0.1 port 9050 to work through TOR.

hxxps://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Tor
Title: Re: How safe is it to send bitcoins to your computer's wallet?
Post by: goblin on March 19, 2012, 07:41 pm

Hi, thank you, QTC, I appreciate being answered by a senior member. Just one thing, though: my understanding is that the bitcoin software can't run inside tor. Did I hear wrong? I mean, the wallet is generated by the software and so must reside inside it. But if it can't run inside tor, then doesn't that mean that  it's not hidden by it? I apologize if I'm being naive because of lack of experience, feel free to put me in my place!

Goto your Bitcoin wallets Settings-->Options

There should be a radio section that says "connect through sock4 proxy" , check it.

127.0.0.1 port 9050 to work through TOR.

hxxps://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Tor

Wow, oso, that sounds great. I will try it as soon as I can.

Thank you!
Title: Re: How safe is it to send bitcoins to your computer's wallet?
Post by: chiefrogan on March 19, 2012, 08:19 pm
question- what purpose is the bitcoin wallet on the computer? now i dont use btc for anyhting other than SR and when trandferring or needed a temporary resting place i use instawallet.org that way nothing btc related is on my drive. granted i never leave them in instawallet for long and its not a huge amount so i feel safe doing so.

is it more secure?
Title: Re: How safe is it to send bitcoins to your computer's wallet?
Post by: QTC on March 19, 2012, 08:41 pm
Taking security into your own hands is always the better choice. Also with instawallet you are trusting your money to a third party, what would you do if instawallet disappeared forever while you were completing a transfer?
Title: Re: How safe is it to send bitcoins to your computer's wallet?
Post by: goblin on March 19, 2012, 09:23 pm
Taking security into your own hands is always the better choice. Also with instawallet you are trusting your money to a third party, what would you do if instawallet disappeared forever while you were completing a transfer?

Instawallet has closed down, or at least it was in the process of doing so in early March.


Mushrooms for your enjoyment: http://silkroadvb5piz3r.onion/silkroad/user/d92e1f8a28
Title: Re: How safe is it to send bitcoins to your computer's wallet?
Post by: QTC on March 19, 2012, 10:23 pm
Well they're back up under new ownership now but you've only reinforced my point. :-)
Title: Re: How safe is it to send bitcoins to your computer's wallet?
Post by: chiefrogan on March 19, 2012, 11:29 pm
Right thats why I said for short amount of time and smaller amounts. if it did go down i wouldnt be too fucked but i'd need to find an alternative. besides that is there any security risk? i guess i need to read up on the new owners stuff and see if i trust.

i'd feel safe with not having anything btc on my computer and risk the chance of just losing money, but its mitigated by smaller temporary transactions.

cheers
Title: Re: How safe is it to send bitcoins to your computer's wallet?
Post by: somedude2 on March 20, 2012, 07:50 am
hmm, i have withdrawn btc to my wallet without using the tor option... fortunately i don't live in a jurisdiction where they would make that (aka me) a priority... nonetheless, does the blockchain (or 'transaction archive' if you want to be less cryptic about bitcoin terms) actually contain my IP with every transaction or just the btc address and amount? ie, can these transactions be traced back to a certain IP years later?
Title: Re: How safe is it to send bitcoins to your computer's wallet?
Post by: oso on March 20, 2012, 06:01 pm
hmm, i have withdrawn btc to my wallet without using the tor option... fortunately i don't live in a jurisdiction where they would make that (aka me) a priority... nonetheless, does the blockchain (or 'transaction archive' if you want to be less cryptic about bitcoin terms) actually contain my IP with every transaction or just the btc address and amount? ie, can these transactions be traced back to a certain IP years later?

SHort answer is YES. long answer is that the people on their end are so stupid they look at the data sheets and it looks like goobldie gook to them. ( I know I was in trouble as a hacker, they had all my info in front of me, but didnt even know it, because they couldnt read IP's, bridges, routers, and the like.)


Just use TOR proxie for your wallet and you should be fine.

hxxps://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Tor
Title: Re: How safe is it to send bitcoins to your computer's wallet?
Post by: Holly on March 20, 2012, 07:21 pm
if your computer is behind Tor it will not link it to your IP address but the transfer history may still be linkable to you. And yes, mixing services like fog/laundry will make it extremely difficult to follow the blockchain, that's why they exist. :-)

I don't get how it would be hard to follow to a determined investigator. 
Title: Re: How safe is it to send bitcoins to your computer's wallet?
Post by: Diamond on March 20, 2012, 09:58 pm
if your computer is behind Tor it will not link it to your IP address but the transfer history may still be linkable to you. And yes, mixing services like fog/laundry will make it extremely difficult to follow the blockchain, that's why they exist. :-)

I don't get how it would be hard to follow to a determined investigator.
Theoretically it's not impossible but as I understand it, the likelyhood is virtually non-existent of an investigator having all the necessary pieces of information to follow a transaction from you, to another person, as an exchange for illegal goods or services.

Assuming your computer was compromised completely by an LEO, they would have access to (some) of your addresses and maybe the instawallets (etc) that you tumbled through assuming you took meticulous records for yourself. But even that's not a full record due to change (https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Change).

So if you sent out the coins from an instawallet address in pieces, instawallet itself would have to be compromised in order to truly tie you to all of those. And furthermore, SR itself would have to be compromised in order to access info on what address they controll, in addition to having knowledge of your SR account to tie you to specific transfer within that set of wallets.

All in all, it seems to me like an investigator would already require DAMNING evidence just to tie the transfers to you anyway, so if it got that far, your fucked, and the BTC info is ancillary to the prosecution at best.

Not saying don't be cautious, I just don't think the openness of the block chain is a weak point at this stage of the game.

If there's a BTC expert out there who knows different, then by all means correct me.