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Market => Rumor mill => Topic started by: Orpheus99 on June 19, 2013, 07:34 am

Title: Heroin today does not give the euphoria/pleasure of heroin 30 years ago. Why?
Post by: Orpheus99 on June 19, 2013, 07:34 am
I hadn't used heroin for 30 years until I discovered this wonderful place.  Now I'm like a kid in a candy store, but there is trouble in paradise.  I've bought heroin from the best vendors, perhaps 8 in all, and none of it has given me the euphoria, warmth, pleasure and plain enjoyment that I used to get from heroin 30 years ago.  It is not a matter of potency.  The dope I've bought on SR has been plenty potent, but it only puts me on the nod, and that's now what I use heroin for.  I've given some to a good friend who I used to use with 30 years ago and he said the same thing, so I know it is not just me.  I have no idea what would account for this, and I agree, it doesn't make any sense.  But that has been my experience.  Have any old timers who used heroin in the 1970's or 1980's observed the same thing?  Needless to say, the situation with cocaine is even more pathetic.  I've bought from 3 vendors, all well recommended, and the stuff I routinely bought years ago puts all of it to shame.   What's happened to our dope?  I would be very interested in other's comments. 
Oh, now that I think of it someone did send me a personal message in response to a comment I made on this subject.  She puts it very well so, with her permission, I will copy it below: 

OMG!!!!  You are the first person to say what I've been thinking the whole time I've been on SR.  I've been on SR for 1 yr, been buying H, and have bought from every vendor who's supposed to have "fire"................I"ve also used in th real world, although not since the 90s  and the comparison is a total joke.   The dope I"ve used in real life, was amazing, euphoric, my body felt like it was wrapped in velvet, warm pleasurable bliss, etc etc  But, even the best dope I've gotten on SR has been about 1/3 as pleasurable as the stuff I've had irl.  I dont get why everyone brags like crazy on these forums about the stuff they are using, even those people who say they are long time users are on these forums bragging about the quality, honestly, I"ve been thinking that for the amount of money that's being charged for this stuff on SR, its really not worth buying the stuff at all considering how dissappointing the high can be,   Anyway, I wanted to reply to you bc you are speaking something I've been thinking for the last year, I dont have enough posts to post to the forum so i thought i'd pm you. 
Title: Re: Heroin today does not give the euphoria/pleasure of heroin 30 years ago. Why?
Post by: Whistleblowers on June 19, 2013, 01:04 pm
fake?
Title: Re: Heroin today does not give the euphoria/pleasure of heroin 30 years ago. Why?
Post by: l0verboy on June 19, 2013, 01:21 pm
Heroin has not changed. Maybe the "Average" potency has varied (up or down, idk), or the cut,  but the chemical ,diacetylmorphine, has stayed the same, and will always stay the same. The substances on here marketed as heroin, probably are heroin. If it is not, well, it will catch up with them and it will be publicized here on the forums eventually thanks to reagent tests. Sorry I can't elaborate more on why street heroin is better than ?silk road heroin? but if you think its the diacetylmorphine being a different chemical, or having different effects, you would be mistaken.
Title: Re: Heroin today does not give the euphoria/pleasure of heroin 30 years ago. Why?
Post by: Whistleblowers on June 19, 2013, 01:27 pm
synthetic additives or fake its all the same.
Title: Re: Heroin today does not give the euphoria/pleasure of heroin 30 years ago. Why?
Post by: Orpheus99 on June 19, 2013, 02:27 pm
Loverboy,  Let me quote you and respond where appropriate:

["Heroin has not changed. Maybe the "Average" potency has varied (up or down, idk), or the cut,  but the chemical ,diacetylmorphine, has stayed the same, and will always stay the same."] I agree.  That's why it is so puzzling.  There is no denying that the dope I did years ago was more pleasurable and enjoyable than any dope I've been able to find today.  This is a fact of experience validated also by a good friend of mine.  It is not a matter of potency, it is something qualitative.  For example, you  no doubt notice that different batches of heroin have different qualities, even if they are equally strong.  Some are more euphoric than others, some are very noddy, some are social and lend themselves to socialization, and so on.  Same with Cannabis and Cocaine, besides  potency they have certain unquantifiable qualitative properties depending upon what country they were grown in and the traditions of hash making, etc. [ "The substances on here marketed as heroin, probably are heroin. If it is not, well, it will catch up with them and it will be publicized here on the forums eventually thanks to reagent tests. Sorry I can't elaborate more on why street heroin is better than ?silk road heroin? but if you think its the diacetylmorphine being a different chemical, or having different effects, you would be mistaken."]  But that's just it.  I don't disbelieve that the heroin being sold today is diacetal morephene, i.e., heroin, but it seems to me that something has changed and it is simply not as pleasure-inducing as it used to be - for reasons I cannot explain.  IN approaching the problem there are two things needed, 1) experience and observation by old-time users of how heroin has evolved over the past few decades?  Whatever the cause might be, and even if we cannot figure out any sensible hypothesis, is it really true that the heroin is less euphoric and pleasurable than what we used to use 20 or 30 or more years ago?  Really, you probably had to be using at least 20 previously to be able to recognize this.  Once the fact is established (if it is) then we can begin to look which could account for it.
Title: Re: Heroin today does not give the euphoria/pleasure of heroin 30 years ago. Why?
Post by: MC Haberdasher on June 19, 2013, 03:49 pm
I'd chalk it up to nostalgia mostly. 

I have heard alot of older dudes and their stories of wine, women and song.  "Yeah man, we used to get this red Lebanese hash, man..  Two hits of that and you were ripped, man..  But you kids wouldn't know anything about that"

Save it pops..  I smoke weed that makes red leb hash look like Dr White's shake bags.


When I was a younger man, buying stamps in New England circa 98-00..  I remember being amazed at how snorting such a small amount of powder could get you that fucked up.  Now if I can shoot 1 bag and get a nice rush and maybe a light nod, then I am happy.
Title: Re: Heroin today does not give the euphoria/pleasure of heroin 30 years ago. Why?
Post by: l0verboy on June 19, 2013, 06:31 pm
If you've been using heroin for over 20 years. I'd blame the 20+ years of using as to why the heroin today isn't as good as it used to be. Heroin is not as good to me now as it was 3 years ago. Now, there are compounds hat appear in heroin (6MAM, 3MAM, morphine, etc) that can affect the high.
Title: Re: Heroin today does not give the euphoria/pleasure of heroin 30 years ago. Why?
Post by: Trappy on June 19, 2013, 06:41 pm
I heard that the H on the road is often fent and inactive cuts.
Title: Re: Heroin today does not give the euphoria/pleasure of heroin 30 years ago. Why?
Post by: NorthernStar on June 19, 2013, 06:41 pm
Well its probably the quality, I remember the days of scratching like a shaggy dog, gouching for hours on end, sleeping for days. Just the taste of the first toot would make you retch bad.

We know its up to 95% pure when it leaves Afghan, Turkey, and mainly all the others producers like |Pakistan] But it's the greedy little buggers who are bashing it to death. I remember china white, and that was beautiful swag. Now the gear is so weak, I had to piss test and it came back negative for opiates? can you adam and eve it? negative. Now even F/Matthews#3 would show up on test.
Title: Re: Heroin today does not give the euphoria/pleasure of heroin 30 years ago. Why?
Post by: Alighier on June 19, 2013, 06:49 pm
Hello.  I did drugs back when my body and mind were young and healthy.

Thirty years later, drugs don't effect me the same because I'm old.

It's everybody's fault but mine.
Title: Re: Heroin today does not give the euphoria/pleasure of heroin 30 years ago. Why?
Post by: TFMP on June 19, 2013, 07:11 pm
Excuse my ignorance but what does she mean with in real life? is the stuff from sr not from real life or is she not in real life when taking the stuff from sr...

As for the subject, the answer is simple, you are 30 years older.
+1 Alighier
Title: Re: Heroin today does not give the euphoria/pleasure of heroin 30 years ago. Why?
Post by: danconia on June 19, 2013, 08:50 pm
Hello.  I did drugs back when my body and mind were young and healthy.

Thirty years later, drugs don't effect me the same because I'm old.

It's everybody's fault but mine.

As someone who used to be addicted to opiates, I've found that sometimes it's the individual's body chemistry that has changed.  Oxycontin used to be a lot of fun for me, now the few times I've tried it in the last 3 years it hasn't gotten me as high and has given me headaches.  Most likely some psycho-somatic issue since the actual pills are unlikely to have changed much.
Title: Re: Heroin today does not give the euphoria/pleasure of heroin 30 years ago. Why?
Post by: grdr on June 19, 2013, 10:40 pm
Excuse my ignorance but what does she mean with in real life? is the stuff from sr not from real life or is she not in real life when taking the stuff from sr...

As for the subject, the answer is simple, you are 30 years older.
+1 Alighier

she probably meant from the streets.. anyways even the best vendors might be selectivelly scamming giving buyers with good stats good quality, their usual customers good quality, newcomers or people with not so good stats average-low quality. i have heroin in exchange thread if you're from Europe i can send you one bag I only bought heroin once here that was 0.7 gram they would equal my 2 bags :D
Title: Re: Heroin today does not give the euphoria/pleasure of heroin 30 years ago. Why?
Post by: l0verboy on June 20, 2013, 01:58 am
I heard that the H on the road is often fent and inactive cuts.

I don't believe that.
Title: Re: Heroin today does not give the euphoria/pleasure of heroin 30 years ago. Why?
Post by: chino on June 20, 2013, 05:30 pm
If is psycosomatic that mean that you are imaging that or getting paranoid. I dont think so. Is probabily your body is not procesing the new formula of the oxys well, some times the fillers and the non active components can have a negative effect when the product get use with a diferent route of administration. Oxy is desing to be eated, if you smoke it or fix it, the fillers can make it hard in your body and you can get a headache.

I do believe that if you change very often from one opioid  to another (oxy to dilaudid, to codein), and this days can happend a lot, if you change from a weaker opioid to a stronger is good but if is from a stronger to a weaker you can get headaches too.

One time i have a stable supply of high purity heroin for around 3 years (really diacetylmorphine not garbage, amazing iranian dealer straight from source, his family use to bring it, and he sell me from his personal stash, to fund his habit, he just had two customers). I use to smoke a minimum amount in the morning and at night when i came from work. It was a great period of my life, it allow me to achieve so many things profesionally, it give me super stability, much better that the stability that i get from the methadone.

Belive me guys, few puffs and all the molecules of my body align with perfection, stomach ache fix inmedialty, no problem, any pain in the muscles, no problem. I get a warm in the body that hugs me. IS NOTHING IN SR THAT IS SOLD LIKE HEROIN NOW THAT CAN COMPARE TO THAT. Anybody or seller can tell  this and that and the answer is NOT HEROIN. Morphine is not heroin. Codein is not heroin. Monoacetylmorphine is not heroin. Methadone not heroin. Fentanyl not heroin. Oxyconting not heroin.............. China white now is not heroin is fentanyl.

I will love to pay 400 dollars a gram for a really gram of pure heroin, it will be worth it. Please if you have this i will buy forever.

chino


Title: Re: Heroin today does not give the euphoria/pleasure of heroin 30 years ago. Why?
Post by: Orpheus99 on June 21, 2013, 10:17 pm
Hi Chino,  I see that  you understand what I mean.  Most of the people putting forward theories to deny the validity of my experience just weren't there when nearly all of the dope was highly euphoric and pleasurable.  They have nothing to compare to.  I really have no idea why today's dope isn't as good, but I think it is a fact for anyone who did dope 30 years ago or had a special connection as you did.  I ordered 1/4 gram of China White and will let you know if I find it up to par with China White years ago.  It was #4 heroin, not Fentynel.
Title: Re: Heroin today does not give the euphoria/pleasure of heroin 30 years ago. Why?
Post by: Nakorx on June 22, 2013, 02:09 pm
This is just a bump so I can find it easily to reply to later :)
Title: Re: Heroin today does not give the euphoria/pleasure of heroin 30 years ago. Why?
Post by: Alighier on June 22, 2013, 03:39 pm
Hi Chino,  I see that  you understand what I mean.  Most of the people putting forward theories to deny the validity of my experience just weren't there when nearly all of the dope was highly euphoric and pleasurable.  They have nothing to compare to.  I really have no idea why today's dope isn't as good, but I think it is a fact for anyone who did dope 30 years ago or had a special connection as you did.  I ordered 1/4 gram of China White and will let you know if I find it up to par with China White years ago.  It was #4 heroin, not Fentynel.

Look, is alls I'm saiyan...

The chemical is EXACTLY the same.  There are other chemicals that run alongside it and always have.  And maybe a few Research Chemicals cut in for good measure, but from what I know about opiates, they GREATLY potentiate one another.  I've only done heroin a dozen times and it was the most warm and euphoric opiate I had ever done.  But not the first two times.  The first two times, I was being dumb and getting it from the wrong sources.  Since I got on the Road, I've seen what real H should feel like.

And you can't deny you're getting older.  Constantly.  God only knows what damage I've done to my brain that caused me to not enjoy A++ weed anymore, but I'm not going to blame the weed.

Mind you, I never did heroin back in the 70's/80's.  Yesterday, I wouldn't have known what you meant by "Mr. Brownstone".  But I do know that the body is constantly dying at a certain point.  You can't help it, it's not your fault, don't be upset.

Another possibility (and I'm not really sure of the options back then) but you may have been more impressed with the active CUTS from way back when than you are today.  If that's the case, sorry friend, but the ship sailed to learn what you were putting in your body all those years ago.

My favorite vendor's H is about 70% pure, sold in stamp form, and only contains Teoline and Caffeine with a few inactive cuts.  In 30 years I may have another go and be disappointed, but at least I'll know it was my own brain chemistry failing, not the quality of the drug.

Title: Re: Heroin today does not give the euphoria/pleasure of heroin 30 years ago. Why?
Post by: Orpheus99 on June 22, 2013, 03:51 pm
Hi Alighier,  You've put forth a few speculations to explain away my experience, i.e., that I am getting older, etc.  This may be.  Or may not be.  It is speculation, that's all.  Another possibility is that it is as I have said, i.e., that it really has something to do with the dope.  I am interested in gathering data, not coming to one conclusion or another prematurely.  You admit that you haven't done heroin or coke during the period when I said it was so much better than today, so you don't have the data to compare with.   I've not read anywhere that the effects of heroin reduce with age.  It may be, but it also may not be.  It is presently only speculation to suggest that.
Title: Re: Heroin today does not give the euphoria/pleasure of heroin 30 years ago. Why?
Post by: Alighier on June 22, 2013, 04:22 pm
Okay, you're absolutely right, what do I know?

But for what I do know, and in all fairness, let's try and crack this egg.  Are you presently taking any medications that you were not taking 30 years ago?  What drugs, in the past 30 years, have you been taking (prescription or otherwise)?  How many times have you tried SR H?  SR Coke?  What route did you do "back in the day" and what route were you using today?

I agree that most "coke" nowadays is bullshit.  But that's mostly because it contain less and less coke and more and more amphetamine (at least in my area, the assholes don't know what the difference is).  Same goes with H on the street. 
The best coke I've done ever came from a vendor called kirbynose and the second best from KingoftheTrill.
I've never had shit H from SR, and my favorite for that is a stamp vendor called Terabithia.  If you want a blast from the past you might check them out.

In any case, you're ABSOLUTELY right.  There are a million different possibilities regarding why H isn't as warm or pleasurable as back in your hey-day.  But it's not like bananas, which legitimately mutate and lose flavor as the years go by.  These chemicals are not alive.  If they did "mutate" it would become a different chemical altogether.  diacetylmorphine is always going to be diacetylmorphine.  Your receptors aren't going to stay in tip-top shape until you die.  In fact, that would be way more absurd than a chemical losing "flavor".  That's mostly why I say I it's MOST likely it's yer brain chemistry, not yer drugs.

Sorry if it sounds harsh, and I know it's tough to hear that your old tryst with Mr. Brownstone may have ended, but let me enjoy my H while I'm young and can do it. 

The second most likely possibility in my book is there were active cuts in most street H that caused more pleasure than H itself, and you just didn't know it (that's okay, most people don't know what was in their drugs 30 years ago).
Title: Re: Heroin today does not give the euphoria/pleasure of heroin 30 years ago. Why?
Post by: Chip Douglas on June 22, 2013, 05:06 pm
It's all about neurotransmitters and receptors.

Are you now, or have you ever been on SSRI's???

Unless you live on Mars, the answer is usually YES.

They fuck up your ability to enjoy the same highs you did back at the Emerson Lake + Palmer concerts ;)

That, and a little 'getting honest with thyself' is IMHO, the answer to all of this Hullabaloo. ;)
Title: Re: Heroin today does not give the euphoria/pleasure of heroin 30 years ago. Why?
Post by: GreenPEAs on June 22, 2013, 05:19 pm
As someone who has been on and is currently on SSRIs, I've not noticed a single effect on heroin from them.

Personally I've noticed this same phenomenon on a much smaller scale. What it comes down to in my opinion is the powerful effect of the honeymoon period. The first few times you get very high quality heroin (which it most likely was when you were first copping it), the experience is pure bliss. As soon as you go on a couple runs, a couple periods of the WDs, the honeymoon period goes away. But you don't remember all the times you had a sub-par experience, you just remember the powerful feeling from the good times.

As someone else said, I used to get absolutely ripped off 10-20mgs insufflated from Tony76 or SmileAwhile. Now I can easily burn through 100-200mg of the same product in a night and if it just makes me happy and noddy, I'm content with it. I know it isn't a product change, as I've vacuum sealed and stored some of almost every batch of H I've gotten.

A similar phenomenon happened with LSD when they used to run clinical trials on it. The experience was so powerful for these people who had never tried it before that they later associated all manner of things with it. A woman who later became paralyzed blamed it on the acid from the trial, because it had imprinted on her mind that powerfully. Not the same thing we're talking about here, but I'm just trying to illustrate the concept that these experiences imprint on us in a powerful way.

99% of the time, it is we who change, not the drugs.
Title: Re: Heroin today does not give the euphoria/pleasure of heroin 30 years ago. Why?
Post by: Chip Douglas on June 22, 2013, 05:37 pm
Have to agree with PEA. (I just can't think that hard :P)

Seriously though. The 'honeymoon effect' is a great analogy.

Happened with every drug, most recently, adderall for me. Now just starting to 'dig Meth" - don't worry, I know it will "Dig me" eventually.

I just skate long enough until I feel like I'm about to fall in, then skate away.

Have had many close calls, but being in my late 40's, and losing 90% of best friends to drugs, I've got some experience.

It's never going to be as good as it was. Once you face that fact. Just try to enjoy what's left. Our owners are going to blow us all to bits one of these days anyway.

Might as well be high!!!
Title: Re: Heroin today does not give the euphoria/pleasure of heroin 30 years ago. Why?
Post by: Nakorx on June 23, 2013, 09:54 am
"Heroin today does not give the euphoria/pleasure of heroin 30 years ago."
I have often wondered about this myself. I am waiting on an order from Golden Horse, never had a chance to try SAW's stuff, so we will see how I react to that.

Someone earlier wrote that the purity of most Afghan is 85%, I doubt this applies to most of it and I assume they were talking about NO.4. Most No.4 is made in Pakistan, or other neighboring countries as it is difficult for the Afghans to smuggle in all the chemicals they need to refine it.

Another point is that if you go to India, say Delhi, and buy gear off the streets, it is likely to be about 1 - 5% pure and is cut to fuck with paracetamol. So I think the fact that some of the natives in that area, (Afghans, Iranians, Pakistanis, Indians etc) now have Heroin habits which they did not have 30 or even 20 years ago is a factor.
I know this as I was there 1 year ago and prior to that 30 years ago, when you could buy China White which blew your socks off.

Also I have tried pharmaceutical Heroin as prescribed to addicts on the relatively new UK NHS Heroin  scheme since I have friend on it. (Yes, don,t ask how!) The high from that is totally different from street or SR gear even though it is pure 100% heroin, in fact many "junkies" are disappointed by it!!
So the 3-MAM and the 6-MAM in "organic" heroin (for want of a better term) must play a part.
However, I have come to the conclusion that after doing smack off and on for nearly 40 years (mainly off I might add but at least 2 or 3 times a year even then) it has affected the receptors in my brain.
Truth be told, I think I am just getting too old for this game (LOL) :)
But I do think there is some chemical difference and it could be to do with the poppy they use in Afghanistan being selectively grown to produce a higher yield of morphine, possibly at the expense of Thebaine and Codeine and other minor alkaloids.
Also to the guy who mentioned SRI's - that is crap, I have never taken them or any other antidepressant in my life. Possibly it is a combination of all the above.
Will we ever know? There is a very good report published every year by UN on illegal drugs and trafficking, I will see if I can find the link.
Title: Re: Heroin today does not give the euphoria/pleasure of heroin 30 years ago. Why?
Post by: Orpheus99 on June 23, 2013, 09:56 am
I know it makes no sense, and I can't explain it either, but the fact is that when I was using heroin in the late 60's, the 70's and occasionally in the 80's it was always pleasurable.  After going without heroin for 30 years I see no reason why it shouldn't be pleasurable except that the dope has changed.  It isn't a matter of a 'honeymoon period'.  I used off and on for 20 years (I was strung out only for a couple years, the rest of the time it was purely recreational) and heroin always felt warm, pleasurable and euphoric.  Cocaine is another more obvious matter.  Just looking at the cocaine I bought on SR and smelling it, and comparing that to the cocaine I had in the 70's, even without doing any it was obvious that the stuff I did in the 70's was far better.  And then doing it, the highs from the varieties of coke I had in the 70's were blissful, incredibly pleasurable.  I snorted and occasionally shot it and then when crack started to become the rage, I also smoked it.  I haven't done crack from SR and I don't think I would want to get into it - it's too addicting, like shooting it.  I have no explanations for the phenomenon I'm reporting, I'm just saying this has been my experience and wondering whether there are others who have noticed the same thing.  I agree:  diacetylmorphine is diacetylmorphine; the molecule couldn't have changed.  But there  it is, the heroin for some reason which makes no sense at all doesn't give the pleasure that it did years ago.  I should mention, and I'm sure everyone here knows, that the highs of different batches of heroin or cocaine differ.  Some are more pleasurable than others.  I'm just saying that nearly all the heroin from back in the day and most of the coke had a better high than what I've found today.  I'm still looking.  I hope I'll eventually find what I'm looking for.  I heard that SmileAwhile's heroin had a wonderful high.  Why?  diacetylemorphine is diacetylmorphine, yet SmileAwhile's dope, for some reason, had a much nicer high than other dope available here.  It isn't just a matter of potency, it is a matter of the quality of the high.  There are mysteries involved here and rather than accepting explanations which don't jive with my experience, I'll just have to live with the mysteries.   But I am interested in hearing from people who experienced dope in decades ago and can compare the quality of dope now to what they remember from that earlier time.  Peace.
Title: Re: Heroin today does not give the euphoria/pleasure of heroin 30 years ago. Why?
Post by: Nakorx on June 23, 2013, 10:29 am
Hi Orpheus99 - I totally agree with you. Some people say its a subjective thing due to nostalgia and point out how each generations parents reckoned they had it better. But that certainly was not true for my parents who went through WW11.
Besides we are talking about drugs, not life styles.
As I said, the quality of the drug that was manufactures in the 70's was processed in a different way. Did you ever see the film the "French Connection"? Heroin from the the Golden Triangle and before that, from Iran (or Persia as it was called once) was smuggled to Marseilles in France and then refined to 99%, then exported and then cut when it arrived in the destination country.
These days it is cut at the source and then again when it gets to the destination country. GH is right when he says that the Body Packers (human mules) who smuggle it do not smuggle cut stuff, but that only accounts for a fraction of the total smuggled out, some 100 metric tons or more (I wish I could find that UN document so I could give the right amount).
So although I put some of it down to old age, I am also certain that it is not the same heroin as it was back in the 70's and 80's.
Can't wait to try GH's gear though, that will be the deciding factor for me!
Title: Re: Heroin today does not give the euphoria/pleasure of heroin 30 years ago. Why?
Post by: Orpheus99 on June 23, 2013, 11:00 am
Thanks Nakorx.   I am also putting my hopes on good heroin from the Golden Triangle.  I've heard both good and bad things about GH's dope and according to him he carries several varieties, some from the golden crescent (mostly Afghani) as well as some allegedly from the Golden Triangle.  There are others also who might carry heroin from the Golden Triangle at some point.  Subsrgood claims that he has a potential connect for heroin from this region.  So the search goes on.....
Title: Re: Heroin today does not give the euphoria/pleasure of heroin 30 years ago. Why?
Post by: rock_lobster on June 23, 2013, 11:45 am
I have been testing the EU vendors, and I am too an old-timer who now likes to get a taste from time to time.
And my first 3 or 4 tries were not at all satisfactory... I got an opiate buzz but not the whole H feeling... I dont know if it was that lactose mix everyone talks about, or just not strong enough dope, but just lets say I was much less "affected" than I thought I should.

My last try was with DrHolland 's stuff, and maybe surprisingly it was the best of them all in my opinion. The first to give me that feeling for scratching, and that silly well-being feeling... I remember the first addict I met, maybe 25 years ago, when he was high and we went to his place he always ended up giving me stuff, presents from the things he had in his house. Now I guess that's what I always thought H euphoria to be about, kind of hippy happiness feeling. And so far I've only got that from this guy's dope, and I tried before some among the top european sellers... Maybe it's just my body changing, but I felt it very different.

My 0.02 btc
Title: Re: Heroin today does not give the euphoria/pleasure of heroin 30 years ago. Why?
Post by: Orpheus99 on June 23, 2013, 01:01 pm
The hypothesis has been put forward that the reason why we feel an absence of warmth, pleasure and euphoria in today's dope is because we are getting old and our bodies no longer respond fully to opiates.  But where in the literature is it observed that older people respond less well to opiates than younger people?  On the other hand, there are a few instances where very outstanding heroin does exist if you look hard enough for it (I believe some Iranian dope and dope from the Golden Triangle have dope which approximates the quality of the years of yore.   If this is the case (and a couple people have told me this is the case) then it must be the quality of the dope which determines the quality of the high, as I've maintained, not the age of the user.  Now, what determines the quality of the dope and why most dope today is lacking in quality compared to dope let's say, 30 years ago, remains a question worth investigating.   And I should add, we are not talking about potency here or whether the heroin has been cut, I am concerned only with the kind of high which is produced.   The heroin from years ago produced a lot of euphoria, energy, socialization, warmth, physical pleasure/body sensations and a general feeling of satisfaction.  No matter how much dope of today you use, you don't get these feeling but instead go on the nod from excessive dope.         
Title: Re: Heroin today does not give the euphoria/pleasure of heroin 30 years ago. Why?
Post by: GreenPEAs on June 23, 2013, 06:57 pm
I could see that. My inclination would be that the extraction and processing techniques have changed and perhaps we're getting a different plant alkaloid mixture as someone mentioned above and also probably less 6-MAM. A lot of people prefer shitty ass tar heroin to super-fine #4, and my understanding there was that the Mexican labs aren't using pure acetic anhydride which is leading to the greater percent of 6-MAM left in the product. The 6-MAM is allegedly much more euphoric. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
Title: Re: Heroin today does not give the euphoria/pleasure of heroin 30 years ago. Why?
Post by: Flowski on June 23, 2013, 08:35 pm
It's obviously because you're older. Not only that but back in the day it was new to you. People spend their whole lives trying to chase that shit, you're not gonna catch it.
Title: Re: Heroin today does not give the euphoria/pleasure of heroin 30 years ago. Why?
Post by: Nakorx on June 23, 2013, 09:37 pm
The hypothesis has been put forward that the reason why we feel an absence of warmth, pleasure and euphoria in today's dope is because we are getting old and our bodies no longer respond fully to opiates.  But where in the literature is it observed that older people respond less well to opiates than younger people?  On the other hand, there are a few instances where very outstanding heroin does exist if you look hard enough for it (I believe some Iranian dope and dope from the Golden Triangle have dope which approximates the quality of the years of yore.   If this is the case (and a couple people have told me this is the case) then it must be the quality of the dope which determines the quality of the high, as I've maintained, not the age of the user.  Now, what determines the quality of the dope and why most dope today is lacking in quality compared to dope let's say, 30 years ago, remains a question worth investigating.   And I should add, we are not talking about potency here or whether the heroin has been cut, I am concerned only with the kind of high which is produced.   The heroin from years ago produced a lot of euphoria, energy, socialization, warmth, physical pleasure/body sensations and a general feeling of satisfaction.  No matter how much dope of today you use, you don't get these feeling but instead go on the nod from excessive dope.       

Yes it has been so long since I had a proper gouch that I have almost forgotten what it feels like. I see some of my younger friends get a nod on some of the local IRL gear, and I think how is it that they can nod on this stuff?
That is what made me think it was just me getting old, but now I have read the above, I see it isn't me after all, it IS the gear!!

Another thing I have noticed (and maybe others can confirm) - it does not seem to matter how much I do, I never really seem to get the "high" that I used to.
I see buyers raving about  FrankMatthews N0.4 and I have tried it myself. In fact I was one of the first to review his samples when he first started. His No.4 makes you nod alright, but it is not a gauch nod, it is my believe it is cut with some sort of benzo, like valium. A mate of mine smuggled some gear back from India a few months ago and it was the same, cut with something that made you sleepy, and because him and his mates could not kepp their eyes open they all thought it was the real deal. Trouble is, the younger generation (for want of a better name, I do not mean to be patronizing) does not know what real uncut No.4 is like IMO.
Roll on Golden Horse, I missed out with SAW :)
Title: Re: Heroin today does not give the euphoria/pleasure of heroin 30 years ago. Why?
Post by: Orpheus99 on June 23, 2013, 10:43 pm
Yeah, the current generation has no idea what dope used to be like, so they get defensive and accuse the old timers, who remember, of being too old to get a decent high!  That's pretty silly especially as when we old timers get ahold of the right dope (SAW) we CAN get a pleasurable high just like in the old days.  It is something to do with today's dope even if we cannot at present explain it.  By the way PEA, back in the day I used to use mostly bth and even bth had a tremendously satisfying high, so it isn't that we have so much bth around that we don't have good dope.
Title: Re: Heroin today does not give the euphoria/pleasure of heroin 30 years ago. Why?
Post by: SourGrapes on June 23, 2013, 11:41 pm
i've only been using about half the time as you, orpheus, but i must say, IMO i think it likely has more to do with brain chemistry changes, getting older/perspective changes, and 'the honeymoon period.'

it's likely that the byproducts of heroin production (6-mam, etc) have an effect on the sort of high you're getting from any given heroin, but then it would just be a matter of finding a different supply with the alkaloids you enjoy.

i will never get as high or feel as completely euphorically awesome as i did the first few times i got high as a kite, and i spent years trying to chase that same high. i just couldn't get it, even with the same batch of dope from the same dealer. it was new and awesome, and i grew used to it. it isnt as novel, i am not as young, my brain grew used to the drugs and i doubt i will ever recapture that 'back in the day' magic.

granted, i wasnt using 30 years ago, so it's also possible i dont know what i'm talking about.. there could've been some kind of crazy change in the manufacturing process or something that changed the effects of heroin in general, there could've been cuts then that arent present now, or vice versa... but i dont know that it's fair to just say "heroin isnt as good as it used to be." i think it's more likely you just get different effects from it now, but i'm no expert on the science of brain chemistry.
Title: Re: Heroin today does not give the euphoria/pleasure of heroin 30 years ago. Why?
Post by: Orpheus99 on June 23, 2013, 11:54 pm
Hi SourGrapes,  Your screen name is somewhat ironic considering your view on this matter!  In any case, I appreciate that you have given your best guess but realize that you may or may not be right, because you weren't around to sample dope 30 years ago.  As for the honeymoon period which you describe personally, i.e., getting very high initially but soon not being able to achieve the kind of high you had initially even though you have been chasing after it, the reason why this explanation doesn't suit my own experience is that I used heroin off and on from the late 1960's through the late 1980's.  That is over a 20 year period.   And I got satisfactorily high during this whole period.  The first few times I did heroin, in fact, I didn't particularly enjoy it.  It took me a while to appreciate the high.  It is only coming back to heroin after a long absence that I have found the high isn't as satisfying today as it was years ago.  Since I've been abstinent for such a long time i would have thought that my tolerance would be down and I would be more likely to get high today then in the years when I used nearly daily, but it has not been so.  So, I attribute it to some change in the dope though I cannot explain why this should be.  It is simply a fact of experience.  There are several others who have reported the same thing.   I think this issue, while not understood by any of us, is certainly very newsworthy.  It is curious that it has flown entirely under the radar until I brought it up a short while ago.  Sooner or later someone is going to make the classic Double OU brank China White available and I will be eager to try that as I suspect that Indochina produces the best heroin in the world.  We'll see and I'll certainly update this thread if/when I find some dope which gets me as pleasurably high as the dope I did years ago.
Title: Re: Heroin today does not give the euphoria/pleasure of heroin 30 years ago. Why?
Post by: Nakorx on June 23, 2013, 11:58 pm
Yes I second that - let you know about Golden Horse when it turns up, hopefully later this week.
Title: Re: Heroin today does not give the euphoria/pleasure of heroin 30 years ago. Why?
Post by: Orpheus99 on June 24, 2013, 12:01 am
Nakorx,  Yes, please do.  But keep in mind that GH has, according to his posts, several kinds of dope.  Some (allegedly) from the Golden Triangle, some from Afghanistan, processed in Pakistan.  I heard from one person who got GH's heroin that it was awful.  Others of course have said it was outstanding.  I hope you get the real China White.  You might write GH and ask him what he has sent you, or will be sending you. 
Title: Re: Heroin today does not give the euphoria/pleasure of heroin 30 years ago. Why?
Post by: SourGrapes on June 24, 2013, 12:32 am
what is your ROA, orpheus? have you tried tar recently? i find smoking tar, while shortening the duration of the high considerably, does provide much more of a euphoric rush than snorting monkeywater or #4. (i've not been a needle frequenter in a while, so i can't speak to that.) it's a short rush, but it's very very pleasurable. you might see if that brings back any of the magic for you? if it does, perhaps it's the 6-mam/other alkaloids you're missing.. it's likely the H production process has changed over the last 30 years.

the SN was meant to be a little ironic, but i didnt realize until i'd made a few posts that most people were probably going to assume i'm just bitter, lol..
Title: Re: Heroin today does not give the euphoria/pleasure of heroin 30 years ago. Why?
Post by: Orpheus99 on June 24, 2013, 12:38 am
Hi SourGrapes,  I meant that many who have contributed to this thread have implied that I have a sort of sour grapes attitude, i.e., I attribute my lack of satisfaction to the dope itself while others think I have a sour grapes attitude and it is really that something is wrong with me (i.e. age, etc.)   In any case, my method of administration is snorting.  When I get my dope I grind it up with a mortar and pestle and use mannitol as the cut (I have some folic acid tablets which are nearly pure mannitol).  Mannitol is an ideal cut.  So once I've ground up the tar or #4  heroin with the right amount of cut it becomes very snortable.  It's a technique which I recomment.
Title: Re: Heroin today does not give the euphoria/pleasure of heroin 30 years ago. Why?
Post by: SourGrapes on June 24, 2013, 12:47 am
have you found any difference in the quality of the high, with tar vs #4?

also, i must say IMO mixing the tar with water to put up the nose with a dropper or sprayer, ie monkeywater, seems to work much better/more quickly than trying to powder it down and dry snort it, at least for me.
Title: Re: Heroin today does not give the euphoria/pleasure of heroin 30 years ago. Why?
Post by: Orpheus99 on June 24, 2013, 12:55 am
The high of #4 and bth are different, but I haven't found either one to be as pleasurable as the dope in the past.  I'm on the search for genuine China White.  Apparently SmileAwhile's dope, which I believe was China White, had the best high of any recently sold on SR.  King David apparently also sold China White but he got scammed and no longer sells it, much to my regret...
Title: Re: Heroin today does not give the euphoria/pleasure of heroin 30 years ago. Why?
Post by: SourGrapes on June 24, 2013, 03:39 am
The high of #4 and bth are different, but I haven't found either one to be as pleasurable as the dope in the past.  I'm on the search for genuine China White.  Apparently SmileAwhile's dope, which I believe was China White, had the best high of any recently sold on SR.  King David apparently also sold China White but he got scammed and no longer sells it, much to my regret...


i'm also out to try the illustrious "china white"... i missed out before Smile Awhile went stealth. good luck finding that 'back in the day' dope; let us know if you do!
Title: Re: Heroin today does not give the euphoria/pleasure of heroin 30 years ago. Why?
Post by: chino on June 24, 2013, 04:07 pm
Without offending anybody, the conversation some times get a bit silly. The high of a substance like LSD can not be compare with the high of and opioid.

About the discussion of black tar compair to n 4 heroin (heroin hydrochloride).

The quality of the heroin that a chemist get, is directly proporcional in bit manner to the quality of the morphine that the chemist use before the acetylation with acetic anhidride or acetyl chloride. In mexico they invent years a go a form of heroin that was a basic form of morphine (not totally clean extracted from opium). This heroin had, codein and other few extra alcaloids, also because the not so perfect refine morphine, the result heroin will be a cocktail of  heroin (diacetyl morphine) and mono acetyl morphine (not totally acetylated morphine, also codein, acetylcodein, and maybe diacetylcodein. They will make it hydrocloride (N 4) so is easy to inject. So BTH is not base is hydrocloride N4.

This product will be so nice because we get a bit of rush and itch from the acetyl morphine (mam) and the normal high of the heroin. This is my favorite tar.

Like i prefier brown heroin (i smoke now) because give me a bit of rush, and then long high. The white clean heroin, dont give rush just the high from heroin.

The changes that we see in the new tar has to be one that sometimes the producers dont have acetic anhidride or acetyl chloride, so they use acetic acid or glacial acetic acid not so difficult to get. Then the result will be just mono acetyl morphine, and acetyl codeine. So it will explain the big rush (to the point that is not pleasurable) and you get so high fast but is not relaxing high and not so relax euforic is more ansi. By having more rush they can cut it more and make more money with it. Also is more easy to overdose.

The following is just a theory i did not read anything about it. Whould be so crazy to think, that with the actual demand and prices of opioids drugs, when the cartels get the opium, extract the morphine to make heroin, and the rest of the opioid alkaloids they put it in the garbage. I dont think so.

What if after they extract the morphine and make heroin. They can take the remaining alkaloids (codeine,tebaine, but in the more proportion codeine) and procesed with acetic acid (cheap and not controlled) and the result product will be a cheap form of BTH or (Black Tar Codeine...). This acetyl codeine will have the already super rush of the codein (if any of you anytime fix codeine it give super rush and super itch). And this fucking mafias will make extra money from it.

Is just a theory but i thing is logic, this people dont care about the users just want to make money.

Thats why we need a legalization of the drugs as soon is possible.

chino
 

 
Title: Re: Heroin today does not give the euphoria/pleasure of heroin 30 years ago. Why?
Post by: Nakorx on June 24, 2013, 05:16 pm
Hey Chino, I think I missed something here, where did LSD get mentioned?
And if have you have hit codeine up,  what salt was it? Codeine phoshate or what? Just curious because one them can cause real problems, although can't remember which ATM.
Title: Re: Heroin today does not give the euphoria/pleasure of heroin 30 years ago. Why?
Post by: chino on June 24, 2013, 05:44 pm
..............

A similar phenomenon happened with LSD when they used to run clinical trials on it. The experience was so powerful for these people who had never tried it before that they later associated all manner of things with it. A woman who later became paralyzed blamed it on the acid from the trial, because it had imprinted on her mind that powerfully. Not the same thing we're talking about here, but I'm just trying to illustrate the concept that these experiences imprint on us in a powerful way.

99% of the time, it is we who change, not the drugs............


In heroin i dont belive in magic.

I did inject the codein, and it wasnt codein phosphate, that is for oral comsumtion. It was codein hydrocloride. Right after i injected was a super rush and super itch in my arm. Very similar sensation and feeling when you fix opium. If any of you did try to inject opium, i did it because i was sick on heroin ( is not very pleasurable is better to eat the opium or smoke)

Just to put in the trash can all those ideas or bodies getting old and getting a diferent high from the heroin. Every time that my iranian friend get some H from his family back home (a very little amount now, when i am lucky he sell me a gram just to made me a favor, he want it all for him) i can feel the same that i felt in the old days. GOOD HEROIN.


chino
Title: Re: Heroin today does not give the euphoria/pleasure of heroin 30 years ago. Why?
Post by: Festivalia on June 24, 2013, 06:05 pm
I hadn't used heroin for 30 years until I discovered this wonderful place.  Now I'm like a kid in a candy store, but there is trouble in paradise.  I've bought heroin from the best vendors, perhaps 8 in all, and none of it has given me the euphoria, warmth, pleasure and plain enjoyment that I used to get from heroin 30 years ago.  It is not a matter of potency.  The dope I've bought on SR has been plenty potent, but it only puts me on the nod, and that's now what I use heroin for.  I've given some to a good friend who I used to use with 30 years ago and he said the same thing, so I know it is not just me.  I have no idea what would account for this, and I agree, it doesn't make any sense.  But that has been my experience.  Have any old timers who used heroin in the 1970's or 1980's observed the same thing?  Needless to say, the situation with cocaine is even more pathetic.  I've bought from 3 vendors, all well recommended, and the stuff I routinely bought years ago puts all of it to shame.   What's happened to our dope?  I would be very interested in other's comments. 
Oh, now that I think of it someone did send me a personal message in response to a comment I made on this subject.  She puts it very well so, with her permission, I will copy it below: 

OMG!!!!  You are the first person to say what I've been thinking the whole time I've been on SR.  I've been on SR for 1 yr, been buying H, and have bought from every vendor who's supposed to have "fire"................I"ve also used in th real world, although not since the 90s  and the comparison is a total joke.   The dope I"ve used in real life, was amazing, euphoric, my body felt like it was wrapped in velvet, warm pleasurable bliss, etc etc  But, even the best dope I've gotten on SR has been about 1/3 as pleasurable as the stuff I've had irl.  I dont get why everyone brags like crazy on these forums about the stuff they are using, even those people who say they are long time users are on these forums bragging about the quality, honestly, I"ve been thinking that for the amount of money that's being charged for this stuff on SR, its really not worth buying the stuff at all considering how dissappointing the high can be,   Anyway, I wanted to reply to you bc you are speaking something I've been thinking for the last year, I dont have enough posts to post to the forum so i thought i'd pm you.

Believe it or not, statics show that around the year 1983, street heroin was averaging about 10-20% heroin, 80-90% cut. Today, average street heroin is usually about 50-60% heroin, 40-50% cut.

If you're meaning 30 years ago you got pure; uncut heroin... And now (via SR, 30 years later) you got pure; uncut heroin, and it does not "feel the same" ... and this statement is entirely 100% true in both cases, I would say that what you are experiencing, my friend, is your own age. No drug feels the same as it once did... once it did. Ever. :P

Title: Re: Heroin today does not give the euphoria/pleasure of heroin 30 years ago. Why?
Post by: Nakorx on June 24, 2013, 06:58 pm
..............

A similar phenomenon happened with LSD when they used to run clinical trials on it. The experience was so powerful for these people who had never tried it before that they later associated all manner of things with it. A woman who later became paralyzed blamed it on the acid from the trial, because it had imprinted on her mind that powerfully. Not the same thing we're talking about here, but I'm just trying to illustrate the concept that these experiences imprint on us in a powerful way.

99% of the time, it is we who change, not the drugs............


In heroin i dont belive in magic.

I did inject the codein, and it wasnt codein phosphate, that is for oral comsumtion. It was codein hydrocloride. Right after i injected was a super rush and super itch in my arm. Very similar sensation and feeling when you fix opium. If any of you did try to inject opium, i did it because i was sick on heroin ( is not very pleasurable is better to eat the opium or smoke)

Just to put in the trash can all those ideas or bodies getting old and getting a diferent high from the heroin. Every time that my iranian friend get some H from his family back home (a very little amount now, when i am lucky he sell me a gram just to made me a favor, he want it all for him) i can feel the same that i felt in the old days. GOOD HEROIN.
chino

Yes it is codeine phosphate that you should not inject. A friend of mine tried it once and thought he was going to die, could not breath properly, said he had prickly sensation all over his body and  swore it was the worst thing he had ever done. I guess it causes some sort of reaction like an allergy.
When I was in India I smoked and eat opium when I was up in the mountains near where the local poppy farms were. Could not score any smack there but I glad I got to try the opium, because I thought it the best drug I've ever had. The dreams I had were just incredible, beats gear any day IMO. But it was good opium, and I think I got lucky. The place was well off the beaten track(as they say) and I got the impression they did not get many tourists(back packers anyway).
Title: Re: Heroin today does not give the euphoria/pleasure of heroin 30 years ago. Why?
Post by: GreenPEAs on June 24, 2013, 10:05 pm
Chino, I wasn't comparing the high between LSD and heroin. I was simply pointing out that when you get good drugs the first time, it imprints on your memory in an extremely powerful way. People are very prone to "misremembering" these things. I wasn't trying to say anything beyond that.
Title: Re: Heroin today does not give the euphoria/pleasure of heroin 30 years ago. Why?
Post by: SourGrapes on June 24, 2013, 10:27 pm
..............

A similar phenomenon happened with LSD when they used to run clinical trials on it. The experience was so powerful for these people who had never tried it before that they later associated all manner of things with it. A woman who later became paralyzed blamed it on the acid from the trial, because it had imprinted on her mind that powerfully. Not the same thing we're talking about here, but I'm just trying to illustrate the concept that these experiences imprint on us in a powerful way.

99% of the time, it is we who change, not the drugs............


In heroin i dont belive in magic.

I did inject the codein, and it wasnt codein phosphate, that is for oral comsumtion. It was codein hydrocloride. Right after i injected was a super rush and super itch in my arm. Very similar sensation and feeling when you fix opium. If any of you did try to inject opium, i did it because i was sick on heroin ( is not very pleasurable is better to eat the opium or smoke)

Just to put in the trash can all those ideas or bodies getting old and getting a diferent high from the heroin. Every time that my iranian friend get some H from his family back home (a very little amount now, when i am lucky he sell me a gram just to made me a favor, he want it all for him) i can feel the same that i felt in the old days. GOOD HEROIN.
chino

Yes it is codeine phosphate that you should not inject. A friend of mine tried it once and thought he was going to die, could not breath properly, said he had prickly sensation all over his body and  swore it was the worst thing he had ever done. I guess it causes some sort of reaction like an allergy.
When I was in India I smoked and eat opium when I was up in the mountains near where the local poppy farms were. Could not score any smack there but I glad I got to try the opium, because I thought it the best drug I've ever had. The dreams I had were just incredible, beats gear any day IMO. But it was good opium, and I think I got lucky. The place was well off the beaten track(as they say) and I got the impression they did not get many tourists(back packers anyway).

good opium is HARD to find, especially in the US. i spent a few years making my own (goddamn i miss a back yard garden..) and honestly i think it spoiled me for opiates. aside from those first couple magical non-obtainable H experiences, i compare every opiate experience to my good opium-eating times, and i rarely get a high that comes close to touching that nowadays. maybe my tolerance is just a big nasty bastard.

i will have my own garden again someday, damn it.
Title: Re: Heroin today does not give the euphoria/pleasure of heroin 30 years ago. Why?
Post by: Orpheus99 on June 24, 2013, 10:40 pm
I'm of the same view.  There will be some good opium available in the US in a little while, according to the European "Scurvy Crew" and I'm certainly waiting for it.  While I've been discouraged about the pleasure from heroin, I  hope to find it in good opium.  I have also grown my own poppies but I didn't get a while lot of opium from them.  But many years ago I had opium from the Golden Triangle and it was great, both pleasurable and interesting, what with the fascinating opium dreams it gave me. 
Title: Re: Heroin today does not give the euphoria/pleasure of heroin 30 years ago. Why?
Post by: Nakorx on June 25, 2013, 05:01 am
I have just finished reading "Narcopolis" by an Indian called Jeet Thayl. It basically revolves round an opium den in Calcutta. I wonder if any still exist, because  towards the end of the book the brown heroin and "chemical" (some sort of XTC?) start putting the opium dens out of business. I wonder if there are any left. Could not find one in Delhi although I asked several tut-tut drivers. They all knew where to score the brown though.
Title: Re: Heroin today does not give the euphoria/pleasure of heroin 30 years ago. Why?
Post by: LaMarisa on June 25, 2013, 05:03 am
I do tend to agree with what numerous people have said wrt set and setting, as well as age, when it comes to dope not being as nice as it was "back in the day" (tolerance notwithstanding).

However that said, I do have a small theory, hippy-dippy as it may sound, and that has to do with the location, and quality of the plants themselves.

Just like how there's technically no difference between the chemical makeup of the Vit C in a factory farmed  orange from a chain grocery store, vs an orange from your neighbors organic grove...yet your body can FEEL and you can taste the difference?  And the way that certain regions of the world are known for certain kinds of produce (Olives in the middle east, wine grapes in northern CA, etc) and even if you were to mimic the exact same methods with the exact same seeds somewhere else, it wouldn't taste the same?

It stands to reason that, since no4 poppies are not only no longer grown in the same areas but the areas in which the poppies are grown are cultivated very different than they were before, even though the same chemical is being produced it may have a very different "flavor profile" to that which was made similarly 30 years ago.  You've got less nutrients in the earth, chemicals, etc that weren't around then, and methods of growing (nevermind processing and chemistry) that are geared toward speed rather than quality because drug enforcement is everywhere.  You've got lands that have been burnt to the ground and poisoned by the chemicals of war again and again. 

So my point is, if I can taste (and my body can feel) the difference between an organic heirloom varietal plum from the Central Valley CA vs a wax coated round flavorless "fruit-like-object" grown in Hackensack, NJ...Ya'll don't think this kind of thing applies to our drugs as well???   

with wine, certain varieties can even produce different sensations of drunkenesss, yet they are both etoh.  Some day when drugs are legal we'll be able to know all this stuff, and to choose the varietal of heroin we want.  ;)
Title: Re: Heroin today does not give the euphoria/pleasure of heroin 30 years ago. Why?
Post by: Orpheus99 on June 25, 2013, 06:26 am
Hi LaMarisa,

Yes, I absolutely agree with you.  There is something about the atmosphere of the place which goes into the marijuana, hash or opium grown and produced there.  That is why, despite the huge variety of domestic marijuana available (I am in a medical marijuana state and have been in the stores which sell it) I don't find it as interesting as 'back in the day' when we got most of  our marijuana/hash from exotic locales:  Thai sticks, various parts of Mexico, hash from Lebanon or Nepal, etc. etc.  Each area produced marijuana with distinct qualities and characteristics.  The same thing with cocaine and I think also, heroin.  At least 'back in the day' there were so many kinds of cocaine available, each with a distinctive smell and high.  I've had pharmaceutical cocaine (Merck) which was extremely fluffy and odorless.  It produced a nice, pure effect, but was sort of 'characterless'.  I read recently on another thread that in countries which have pharmaceutical heroin given to addicts on a maintenance program that one person who was a friend of someone on here was so unimpressed with the qualities of this pure diacetylmorephine that he was considering leaving the program to get heroin which was more to his liking.  My point being that there is a mysterious 'flavor profile' involved.  And my point regarding that is that the 'flavor profile' of most heroin today is less appealing than it was years ago.  Why exactly, well, there I would have to speculate and even then I find it somewhat baffling.  My hope is that someone will make available genuine China White from the Golden Triangle.  That area has been producing opium for centuries and heroin for about as long as it has been popular as a recreational drug.  It is an art, and my hope and guess is that if this art remains anywhere, it is likely in this area.  So, we'll see.....
Title: Re: Heroin today does not give the euphoria/pleasure of heroin 30 years ago. Why?
Post by: kracrakra on June 25, 2013, 04:31 pm
Hello everyone,
i don't know 30 years ago but also 15 years ago the dope was different.... Back then in my country there wasn't so much China White , only brown sugar ..... the sugar which makes me feel so good!!! ...and it wasn't #3 or #4 or BTH but pure,
dense, brown sugar.
I remember someone once told me that what we love in that particular rush,  was the strychnine (rat poison) used to cut the dope.....which was really dangerous for our health but so fucking pleasurable. The unmistakable feeling of pins in head.
To me the perfect match is #4 plus some spliff of good hash.... this way i obtain the desired effect, to nod a little more.
Speaking in general the first time is the best time.....just like the first kiss.
Title: Re: Heroin today does not give the euphoria/pleasure of heroin 30 years ago. Why?
Post by: chino on June 25, 2013, 06:47 pm
Hey brothers, my first time i puke my brains out, i definitly did not enjoy that much. It was like my first fuck when i lost my virginity, it was not great. In both cases i  have to insist and get practice to really enjoy. Is almost discusting to say this but the best feeling of heroin that i got is when i was really hook, doing between 2 or 3 grams per day in india, in Delhi, in a neibourghood call Pahargam i dont know if is writen good the name, it was about 1 or 2 kilometer from Connot Place a central plaza in Delhi (indian white, in those days they sell it for 250 rupies a gram, and the brown sugar was 125 rupies a gram) , when i wake up in the morning the first fix, was the best, i wake up shitting my self sick, i do my fix,  get a tea (there the chai milky tea, sweet is fucking great) and i read the Indian Times. Yeah very proper. And also during the day i will smoke some brown sugar with some indian friends.

If the heroin is pure white and you are not sick you dont feel a rush, you feel the high. With browns you feel a rush but not is not intense is subtle. I do smoke now and as a smoker i  really like the  flavor and also the high, just by observing the drop of h in the foil, by the color, consistency, texture when the drop dry, if the drop is sticky when it dry and bent or if is brittle, the smoke, how it taste, burn in the foil, the residue in the end that is in the foil. Also the residue in the tube that i also made with aluminum foil. Some good shit can cristalize again in the tube. And the tube get a nice residue to smoke.

Is many variations.

I have two coments to make to the point that someone made that the quality of the heroin that the police get in high level is higher than years a go. If they get BTH, when is analize they dont report 30 % heroin (diacetylmorphine), 20% morphine not acetylated, 35% monoacetyl morphine, and 15% cafeine. They will say 85% heroine 15 % cafeine. They report the active opioid compaunds together as heroin, and then the active cuts and non active cuts together.

The way how they report it varies a lot from country to country. They hide a good forensic analisys. I try to read the composition but is difficult to find a good report on quality. I wish we could get the reporst of quality in all the countries, like this we can see what is sold in the street to the t.

If people is use to get street heroin cut with dilaudid , or oxy, if they adquire a taste for it, and they go to the heroine maintenance program, the heroin that they give you there will be boring for then, they will get high yes but not intense rush. Thats why i think the prohibition of opioids is making people use so many more drugs. If i have a stable supply of H i will have just that. Now many junkies can use 5 diferent types of opioids, 10 diferent types of opioids.

Enough of my rumbling, sorry about my english, it sucks

note.: Yes strichnine on heroin gives flash or rush, but right after you get a headache that you want to die. Please not poison on my heroin.

chino





Title: Re: Heroin today does not give the euphoria/pleasure of heroin 30 years ago. Why?
Post by: rock_lobster on June 25, 2013, 07:38 pm
Yea I remember my first time to, a friend and his dealer, they made lines for all of us, like a normal coke line i'd do now... it was good H, I suppose,  and it made me sick for hours... I remember being like 5 or 6 hours lying on a dirty bed, and puking every now and then... not romantic at all >< Love for it came later. Not too different from tobacco, I dont think anyone really enjoyed their first cigarettes?

And chino, I'd love to hear more of your indian stories, hell,  I would buy the book for sure ;)
Title: Re: Heroin today does not give the euphoria/pleasure of heroin 30 years ago. Why?
Post by: chino on June 26, 2013, 06:06 pm
Is funny what you say about tobacco i agree with you 100%. It took me six month of smoking until i start enjoing the cigarrets (how stupid i was). We have to really insist  to get hook in cigarrets.

About the book , i am a very bad writer, but i bet you that all of us in sr we have increadible histories to tell about and around or because of drugs.

Here go one of them:

One time i went from New Deli to kashmir to a place call Dall Lake, my friend and i, went by a "luxury bus". The so call "Luxury" was a video and a tv, but they just have 3 cassetts, with indian dancing movies.  We just stop every four hours for half and hour, in this time we always have to run to a field to do a fix of heroin, because the toilets is a wooden shack and is a line of 30 people screaming to you to finish and they can peek bettween the woods, no way to fix like that. We run into a field, so i was shiting my self so i put my pants down, start shitting and at the same time i am preparing a fix  on the grass my friend helping me, suddenly i look up and i see a men and a woman farmers looking at this two dudes with long hear, one shiting and preparing injections, and i say hi, fix my self, clean my ass, put my pants up, i show then a 10 rupies bill that i left in the floor and we left runing because the bus was going) So much stress. We arrive on the bus after so many time of bollywood dancing few backpackers pitch in some ruppies and bribe the bus driver to take the video of, the bribe just last 30 or 40 minutes and the music start.

In those days to go to Sinagar in kashmir the bus pass to the corner of punjab, there security military check, my money belt with gear and needles, but they check of course few of the foreneirs backpack, i give a soldier, one of my underswears and few condons, please dont ask what he wanted to do with thenm.

When we arrive in sinagar my h finish in one day so we sow some dudes in Dal lake, i ask them for H, brown sugar, and they say yes and show me a coin, the coin had a brown sugar residue on it. After i was shown a technique that the brown sugar smokers use in India, they put a small coin in the top of the tongue and the end of the tube that is use to smoke the chase brown sugar is put in angle in the coin so residue  cristalize in the coin not in the teeth and you dont waste it. Also  when you are sick they scrape the tube and the coin. I use after to ask for the coin to check if they where users. Anyway we went with the two dudes, we start driving we negociate for 5 grams, i dont remember how much but was 250 rupies a lot cheaper that in Delhi. We pass a control with indian soldiers and we went in the forest. If is now i shit my pants, but then i was a idiot, we where in the bordier between pakistan and india, Khasmir has pakistani part and indian. We arrive in a rural house with many kids, my friend and i relax a bit. And the dudes give the money that i give to hime to the old man he went out and he give one of the dudes, 2 bags of five grams of heroin and maybe a tola of hash (about a 10 grams piece). I wanted to tell the old man i want to move with him to his house and leave with his family, at least until i finish all my money and i have to come back to europe, but the dudes want it to leave fast.

In the way back they stop us in the soldier check, the dude crack a joke, and we went back to sinagar.
Guys i was in a house boat, old english colonial house boat with 100 or 150 years old furniture. I pay about a dollar a nigh for the room with two beds, and they bring the breakfast in bed. So i wake up, do a fix and call for breakfast, and out we go to adventures.

That was live. This brown was so nice we have to ut some citric acid and dissolve to a dark honey color.Mmmmmmmmmmmmm

chino
Title: Re: Heroin today does not give the euphoria/pleasure of heroin 30 years ago. Why?
Post by: Orpheus99 on June 27, 2013, 07:49 am
<<About the book , i am a very bad writer, but i bet you that all of us in sr we have increadible histories to tell about and around or because of drugs.>>

I'm sure you've right Chino.  My stories aren't quite as exotic as yours, but the key period for me in my use of heroin and cocaine was in the mid-70's.  Cocaine was in full flush and heroin was plentiful and of good quality (mostly black tar back).  I had a friend who had great connections so I easily came by great heroin and coke of all kinds.  It was a great time.
Title: Re: Heroin today does not give the euphoria/pleasure of heroin 30 years ago. Why?
Post by: l0verboy on June 27, 2013, 12:18 pm
Hello.  I did drugs back when my body and mind were young and healthy.

Thirty years later, drugs don't effect me the same because I'm old.

It's everybody's fault but mine.

This makes me lol. Every time i read it.

As someone who used to be addicted to opiates, I've found that sometimes it's the individual's body chemistry that has changed.  Oxycontin used to be a lot of fun for me, now the few times I've tried it in the last 3 years it hasn't gotten me as high and has given me headaches.  Most likely some psycho-somatic issue since the actual pills are unlikely to have changed much.