Silk Road forums

Discussion => Drug safety => Topic started by: Skippy_Jif on September 11, 2012, 12:38 am

Title: Need some Help
Post by: Skippy_Jif on September 11, 2012, 12:38 am
I know someone who is 80yrs old and has cancer and diabetes and a heart condition. Overall they're in great shape, but the age and medical conditions are a factor.

This person has no strength in their lower body and it is getting increasingly painful to move. The doctor will not prescribe anything and I am seeking some help from someone on here with some knowledge. No wingin' it!

Is there any steroid that this person can use to increase strength? Please help! I will pay the right person for the verifiable recommendation.

Thank you
Title: Re: Need some Help
Post by: Ben on September 11, 2012, 12:58 am
Not to be blunt: If you are 80 years old, suffering from cancer, diabetes and a heart condition, you are not in great shape, overall or otherwise.

There probably is no medication that will restore lower body strength - otherwise any good physician would have tried that already. I'm all for making people as comfortable as they can be given a certain set of conditions, but realistically there also is a point where you cannot restore proper function any longer, and the focus needs to shift towards dealing with a degree of disability and pain management.

I know this is not the message you want to hear, but SR is not the place to find miracle cures either. If you have any substance in mind that you believe could be beneficial it can probably be sourced here, regardless of clinical evidence of effectiveness.
Title: Re: Need some Help
Post by: xdjx on September 11, 2012, 01:23 am
Not to be blunt: If you are 80 years old, suffering from cancer, diabetes and a heart condition, you are not in great shape, overall or otherwise.

There probably is no medication that will restore lower body strength - otherwise any good physician would have tried that already. I'm all for making people as comfortable as they can be given a certain set of conditions, but realistically there also is a point where you cannot restore proper function any longer, and the focus needs to shift towards dealing with a degree of disability and pain management.

I know this is not the message you want to hear, but SR is not the place to find miracle cures either. If you have any substance in mind that you believe could be beneficial it can probably be sourced here, regardless of clinical evidence of effectiveness.

Couldn't have said what Ben said better myself.
Really don't think your going to find a miracle cure no matter how far you look.
However there are a number of drugs which would be able to decrease the pain, opiates would be my first thought (research carefully) but things such as weed can bring extreme pain down to managable levels and you may be able to help them keep it in check for a while, in these kind of situations tho a doctor is your best bet.
Title: Re: Need some Help
Post by: Snoopish on September 11, 2012, 04:15 am
I'd suggest certain strands of weed (I know there's some that particularly help with pain relief), but at that age I think intense physical therapy would be the primary source of making any headway towards improvement. Proper nutrition with high doses of protein combined with a trained physical therapy regimen may help bring some of his quality of life back.

At that age inability to move is a vicious cycle--he may not move because it's painful but because he doesn't move it will become more painful. If you can get him to start working through the pain (strongly recommended to be under the guidance of a PT specialist) then he may regain some muscle mass and decrease the pain once he's able to move again.

And I don't think any sort of steroid regimen would be appropriate with his heart condition but a proper diet can prove a great benefit.

Good luck, my friend. I hope you can give him strength and encouragement. 80 is old but if you believe he has the fight to live longer then perhaps he feels the same way--and that alone is a good step towards adding not just time, but quality time, to one's life.

Cheers
Title: Re: Need some Help
Post by: Skippy_Jif on September 11, 2012, 09:16 pm
Thanks for the recommendations. The good thing about this person is that they're in physical activities every day.

I'll be sure to pass the information on.
Title: Re: Need some Help
Post by: mazzarmazzar on September 11, 2012, 09:21 pm
Look into diet you would be surprised of some benefits it can have with the elderly. Just google symptoms and nutrition and see what supplements could aid
Title: Re: Need some Help
Post by: Ben on September 13, 2012, 01:04 am
Existing heart conditions and diabetes aren't solved by diet changes though. Perhaps a proper diet can delay their onset, but once someone is suffering from them a change it diet will generally not cure the condition. It may alleviate symptoms however, but the trade off between eating awfully tasting food vs living a few months less is anyones to make for themselves.

At an age of 80 you should consider you are near the end of your life regardless of what actions you take. Personally i'd opt to make the remaining time as comfortable as possible, even if that would take 50% off the time remaining alive. That is a personal choice for everyone to make though - some people prefer to remain alive as long as possible even if that means the remainder of their life is in agony. I suppose pain management is the middle road here - live with it as long as you can bear it, but also stop that once it becomes too painful to carry on with any dignity.
Title: Re: Need some Help
Post by: Skippy_Jif on September 13, 2012, 01:26 am
OMG! I just figured it out. The best result is based upon the fact that this person has diabetes. I know that the individual doesn't drink H2O like they should.

Diabetes involves blood/glucose levels. Taking diabetic medication may fluctuate the levels, but if you're not dieting properly then it only helps in small amounts.

Yes! Thank you! I can't believe I forgot my basic Anatomy & Physiology courses. My professor would be kicking my ass right now!
Title: Re: Need some Help
Post by: Snoopish on September 13, 2012, 02:18 am
Well, Damn. If giving him a few more glasses of water a day gets him feeling better get back to us and let us know! It'd be great if something so obvious ended up making a real impact!


Good luck!
Title: Re: Need some Help
Post by: AnOn.edu on September 13, 2012, 04:31 am
Skippy,

It's not a miracle but there is a lot of data out there about the success of steroid and GH treatments on elderly and cancer/HIV patients, ESPECIALLY in increasing strength and muscle mass/density.  While proper hydration would certainly be the single best first step I wouldn't give up on looking at testosterone and GH, they can significantly increase the quality of life in even small doses.

With that said, however, testosterone carries heart risks and if this guy's cancer is prostate then there are serious issues with test.  Also GH can have issues with diabetes.  The good thing about all this is that the dosage an 80 year old would need is so low that you could see significant improvement without side effects, save for prostate cancer (especially during treatment).

Diet and activity would also need to be included in the calcs as the other posters have mentioned.
Title: Re: Need some Help
Post by: Ben on September 14, 2012, 12:54 am
I suppose you need to confirm that diagnosis though.

Many diabetics drink more fluids because the condition makes them thirsty. If they choose to drink non-diet sodas and such that would only worsen the condition though. The upside is that a test for blood glucose levels only costs pennies and is worth taking.
Title: Re: Need some Help
Post by: Skippy_Jif on September 15, 2012, 12:25 am
Skippy,

It's not a miracle but there is a lot of data out there about the success of steroid and GH treatments on elderly and cancer/HIV patients, ESPECIALLY in increasing strength and muscle mass/density.  While proper hydration would certainly be the single best first step I wouldn't give up on looking at testosterone and GH, they can significantly increase the quality of life in even small doses.

With that said, however, testosterone carries heart risks and if this guy's cancer is prostate then there are serious issues with test.  Also GH can have issues with diabetes.  The good thing about all this is that the dosage an 80 year old would need is so low that you could see significant improvement without side effects, save for prostate cancer (especially during treatment).

Diet and activity would also need to be included in the calcs as the other posters have mentioned.

I appreciate the info. I tried talking to them about this. I told them about the proper analysis of daily activities, testosterone levels and general health evaluations and the theory based on their thoughts is that I don't have the proper medical training.

I told them that medical training has nothing to do with research on an issue because the system in the US is broken. I know they will come around, but it takes time when you're staring you're own mortality in the face.

The great thing is that the prostate cancer is no longer a factor. I'll keep plugging away and hopefully I can get some figures to do the calculations and be able to accurately prescribe them proper medical treatment.

fingers crossed!
Title: Re: Need some Help
Post by: Ben on September 15, 2012, 01:29 am
At the age of 80, having prostate cancer is more common than not having it, though its usually benigm and slow progressing.

The healthcare system can be broken or not, but at this case it is more important to find out what the patient actually wants. At the respectable age of 80, someone could perhaps accept that the end of life is near, no matter what medical procedures are available to treat specific issues.

It wasn't that long ago that we considered it normal for people over about 75 to die of 'old age' without specific cause. The array of diagnostic and interventive tools available are ever evolving, but it will not make us immortal. Ofcourse i would prefer to have your beloved ones live from 80 to 90 to 100, but the reality of the situation is that humans simply don't have such lifespans, even in countries where the medical system is excellent.

Title: Re: Need some Help
Post by: Skippy_Jif on September 15, 2012, 01:48 am
^^^^Yeah, I think a lot of the sociological factors behind medicine exploit the outcome of proper medical care. In the US, if you know that you don't have a chance comparably speaking, to the richer person then you give up hope.

That is NOT the case. I wanted to go to MED SCHOOL, but didn't. I do know that  people have a statistic advantage according to their health, not their money(that is if someone shares the same interest of living as they do).

I WILL SUCCEED IN THIS!!!! MARK MY WORDS!

+1 for everyone who chimed in this thread! God Bless!
Title: Re: Need some Help
Post by: gestaltassault on September 15, 2012, 03:11 pm
The work of Charles S. Grob might interest you:

http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/2010/09/08/psilocybin-found-to-ease-end-of-life-anxiety-in-small-study-of-patients-with-fatal-cancer/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JASWFASqcps
Title: Re: Need some Help
Post by: Skippy_Jif on September 15, 2012, 07:17 pm
^^^^ LOL, this person isn't dying(I know everyone is dying). Good article though. I remember watching this a couple years ago. The psilocybin and all.

All psychedelics will allow you to accept death or scare the ever-living shit out of you. This person will not be open to that though, so I think the best thing to do is convince this person of a low dose testosterone regiment.