Silk Road forums
Discussion => Off topic => Topic started by: GreenGiant on June 19, 2012, 07:47 am
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discuss 8)
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no drugs should be illegal. they should all be regulated. then we get what we pay for and don't have to worry about snorting crushed glass or whatever, the government gets more taxes to deal with the addicts (much like alcoholics), the prisons would actually be able to cope with the amount of REAL criminals and basically EVERYONE's happy 8)
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modern politics
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no drugs should be illegal. they should all be regulated. then we get what we pay for and don't have to worry about snorting crushed glass or whatever, the government gets more taxes to deal with the addicts (much like alcoholics), the prisons would actually be able to cope with the amount of REAL criminals and basically EVERYONE's happy 8)
what would pass for an "addict" or a "criminal", if a junkie robbed a elderly person to feed their habit would this fall under addiction treatment or criminal punishment?
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i reckon that would be covered with the same reasoning as an alcoholic killing a pedestrian while driving drunk
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I sadly have a friend in jail just now for taking someones life while driving under the influence of a controlled substance, he has served 2 out of his 7 years.
So when an addict commits a crime harming another person, this would result in them being treated by criminal punishment instead of treatment?
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yeah i think that sounds logical enough. possessing/taking drugs should not be a crime, but if you perform a criminal act while on them (again using alcohol as an example - if you are pissed up and start a fight, you will invariably be arrested for affray/GBH/ABH/whatever) then you should of course be punished
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the FDA should ban holy water until its gone through proper channels and medical trials.
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yeah i think that sounds logical enough. possessing/taking drugs should not be a crime, but if you perform a criminal act while on them (again using alcohol as an example - if you are pissed up and start a fight, you will invariably be arrested for affray/GBH/ABH/whatever) then you should of course be punished
Sounds logical.
So if possessing/taking drugs were legal, the sale of such items without being a license holder would be illegal? What about production?
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yeah i think it would be the same as alcohol (well it is just another drug isn't it) - you'd have to have a licensed premises for punters to consume on the premises, like pubs and dutch coffee shops. not sure about supermarkets though. i suppose they'd be behind the counter like cigarettes, but like alcohol they can only be sold during certain hours (stupid law if you ask me, but better than not at all!)
not sure about production, obviously synthetic drugs wouldn't be a problem, but stuff from a natural base - coke, H, even pot, might be difficult due to our shitty weather. saying that we have hemp fields in the UK at the moment. opium wouldn't be a problem i don't think - i've seen and heard of gardens full of opium poppies in the UK, but i think a special rig would be needed if we were to start growing coca in the UK, probably massive greenhouses or something, and probably under very tight security in very secret locations to stop people raiding them. would it be cheaper to ship bulk coca leaves over from SA and then process them here than actually grow it here?
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No drugs or substances should be illegal. Anybody that argues this is either too emotionally involved with a troubling personal incident, or is a complete buffoon that has terrible logical reasoning skills. Enough of this debate, legalize everything! If you disagree, state your case and I will consider it and rebuff your stance if appropriate.
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BTW - if you hadn't noticed i'm obviously arguing this through a UK persons perspective ;)
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Pretty sure all the natural plants mentioned can be grown indoors in lab conditions no bother, if this is cost effective or not would depend on market values, My guess is yes it would be financially possible. Just look at the UK weed market for indoor, prices are only get higher and people will pay.
So would home production for personal consumption be legal?
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No drugs or substances should be illegal. Anybody that argues this is either too emotionally involved with a troubling personal incident, or is a complete buffoon that has terrible logical reasoning skills. Enough of this debate, legalize everything! If you disagree, state your case and I will consider it and rebuff your stance if appropriate.
I am merely playing the role of the devil's Advocate as the say, there is nothing wrong with looking at the subject logically. I am sure with the input from many members of this community the thread could be a very interesting read.
One could say anyone not willing to debate this "is either too emotionally involved with a troubling personal incident, or is a complete buffoon that has terrible logical reasoning skills" ;) 8) ;)
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So would home production for personal consumption be legal?
yes, again like alcohol - home brewing is not illegal, you can buy kits for it. so yes, it should be fine. if it was my entire back garden would be full of giant skunk plants :)
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So would home production for personal consumption be legal?
yes, again like alcohol - home brewing is not illegal, you can buy kits for it. so yes, it should be fine. if it was my entire back garden would be full of giant skunk plants :)
home brewing in the UK is legal for personal consumption and does not require a license, what about a a heavier production process like home distillation of alcohol, this requires a license i believe. So would making BHO or a home meth-lab require a license or you to be registered?
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it probably would require a license, but i can't see how licensing/registering home meth labs or similar could be enforced - yes a lot of law-abiding citizens WOULD get it licensed/registered, but for every 1 that does there will be 5 that doesn't.
even if all drugs were legal there would still be a criminal element that bypassed the laws and restrictions.
even in this highly hypothetical discussion there appears to be grey areas...
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yeah i think that sounds logical enough. possessing/taking drugs should not be a crime, but if you perform a criminal act while on them (again using alcohol as an example - if you are pissed up and start a fight, you will invariably be arrested for affray/GBH/ABH/whatever) then you should of course be punished
This, I feel all drugs should be decriminalized, but if you do stupid shit on them then it needs to have consequences. Locking up anyone for addiction is ridiculous if they're sick or addicted and can't come off heroin or crack. Legalization is a different matter :)
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no drugs should be illegal. well there ones that should. like chantix, the one to make you quit smoking. has anyone seen the side effects for this shit, and yet you cant smoke weed?? wtf?
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nothing should be illegal apart from tobacco cos tht shit doesnt even get u high and is addictive and useless
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No drugs should be illegal.
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In my vision of a perfect world, you would be able to walk down to your nearest convenience store and buy a drug with your groceries. Every drug ought to be legal, and just like anything else you put in your body, have "nutrition facts" of sorts, telling you the proper dosage for your age/weight and potential risks involved in taking them.
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Would be nice if all drugs were legal, and all journalist were fired.
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I might make an exception for shit like Krocodile, which is apparently epidemic in Russia. Some of the most extreme examples of tissue necrosis I've ever seen were in Krocodile addicts.
Either everything that could be abused to the point of self-harm should be illegal, or better, we should recognize that we are responsible for ourselves and what we do with ourselves.
I've never had an issue with addiction to anything besides cigarettes, which I got over without -too- much effort. It was a bitch for a while watching my friends smoke while I was cutting back to 5 a day... 4 a day... 3 a day... Then I had enough weed to smoke every day and I just quit cigs altogether.
I've had friends who have overcome, all on their own, addictions to pills and DXM. One in particular used to take cocktails of pills, figuring out which blends he liked and taking a fistful. He fought it off. Another was off and on with DXM for a while, but when he decided he was done he finally quit for good.
Dealing with addiction is a bitch, no denying that. But it can be done, it can in fact be avoided altogether unless you're just not careful, and so any harm to the user that comes from a drug, including addiction, is not cause for it to be illegal. Not anymore than mountain climbing should be illegal because if you're not careful it will kill you, to use the classic drugs to climbing comparison.
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No drugs should be illegal, only regulated, if that.
Each person should be free to put into their own body as they please, so long as it is not causing harm to others. Help should be available to anyone who is struggling, and should not be condemned for their past/current decisions.
sdesu
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it probably would require a license, but i can't see how licensing/registering home meth labs or similar could be enforced - yes a lot of law-abiding citizens WOULD get it licensed/registered, but for every 1 that does there will be 5 that doesn't.
even if all drugs were legal there would still be a criminal element that bypassed the laws and restrictions.
even in this highly hypothetical discussion there appears to be grey areas...
So the people that didn't follow the licensing/regulation rules in this hypothetical red taped utopia they would be prosecuted?
yes, again like alcohol - home brewing is not illegal, you can buy kits for it. so yes, it should be fine. if it was my entire back garden would be full of giant skunk plants :)
What if a mischievous young teenager hopped over your wooden fence and helped himself to some of your fine ass buds because he could smell them from the end of the street? Would this bring any consequences on yourself?
This, I feel all drugs should be decriminalized, but if you do stupid shit on them then it needs to have consequences. Locking up anyone for addiction is ridiculous if they're sick or addicted and can't come off heroin or crack. Legalization is a different matter :)
If the persons addiction makes them harm others then maybe it would be best they are locked up while the receive treatment, but not in such a criminal way? Would their consent be needed? If they did not want the treatment would they be released back into the society?
nothing should be illegal apart from tobacco cos tht shit doesnt even get u high and is addictive and useless
Not a fan of a big fat cigar on the odd special occasion? I know I am partial to a good blunt :)
In my vision of a perfect world, you would be able to walk down to your nearest convenience store and buy a drug with your groceries. Every drug ought to be legal, and just like anything else you put in your body, have "nutrition facts" of sorts, telling you the proper dosage for your age/weight and potential risks involved in taking them.
So would the heroin & meth just be in sweets isle so the super markets could get the kids hooked early?
would they have health warnings on them like cigarettes? Heroin packets with pictures of dead junkies with needles hanging out heir cock?
I would like to let people know I am merely playing devil's advocate here and having a look at an issue we all feel strongly about, please do not get offended by my questions I am purely picking holes for the sake of debate
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no drugs should be illegal. they should all be regulated. then we get what we pay for and don't have to worry about snorting crushed glass or whatever, the government gets more taxes to deal with the addicts (much like alcoholics), the prisons would actually be able to cope with the amount of REAL criminals and basically EVERYONE's happy 8)
what would pass for an "addict" or a "criminal", if a junkie robbed a elderly person to feed their habit would this fall under addiction treatment or criminal punishment?
Drugs should be.untaxed or very low tax.
Junkies wont steal as much for drugs if they are dirt cheap.
The reason is because less money it'a needed with a $120 a day habit versus a $2 a day habit.
Drug crime is caused by pruces caused by drug laws.
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My opinion is based on how it affects other people. If you take a drug that is going to completely fuck with you, then i don't think it should be illegal, we should have a right to do to our bodies as we wish. This changes when, for example PCP, makes you go around eating peoples faces off. However, people NEED to be educated on this, to save some 11 year old's dieing because they don't know how much/what it is they are taking. Although, If some of the hardcore/addictive+dangerous drugs (Meth, heroine, that German shit that almost kills you, etc.) or something that will kill you should be so easily available, its a mass murder waiting to happen.Give a kid a pill saying it will make him feel better, when it kills him. (Unless, this was his intention)
Man my English is terrible, fucked on quite a lot atm aha 8)
Locker.
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@greengiant
The kid wouldnt areal the weed because he cant sell it because every one who smokes has a plot dedicated to it in. their yard.
Synthetics would be mass produced and dirt cheap.
People would be less likely to do addictive drugs because of easily found cheap alternatives.
People could experiment, poor drugs would lose market share because the free market decides what is made by what sells.
The money saved from not filling jail cells with drug users/dealers and fielding in country armies and spies would pay for free treatment to those who desire it. You can't force an addict to get clean, you must wait until they choose to, then welcome them with open arms, not loaded guns.
Cocaine can't be grown aty low altitudes. But south america could supply the world cheaply. Cocaine = dirty cheap.
Basically I think all drugs would be on the dollar menu for a days supply or more.
As for people dying, again the market decides this. Why would jonny 14 year old take something that kills him and is addictive if product x does the same thing without the risk or addiction and is right next to it in the shelf? The market would force the harmful product off the shelf by not selling.
Also, kids have rights too, to deny them the basic rights because of a subjective number is more harmful than drugs. We are not property, ever.
Current addicts might face issues, but the world must change with our without them.
As for krokadile, it is very bad, but junkies only use it because they have no access to what they actually want. It would not exist on the market if other, better products were available.
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I personally believe that everybody should have the right to decide what they do and do not want in their body. If a person chooses to do drugs, they're going to do them regardless of the laws in-place. Regulated drugs would result in cleaner products and probably, in the future, healthier drugs with recreational benefits (seeing as companies would probably like to get in-on the huge profit opportunity that would arise if drugs were legal). Damage reduction research would be done.
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In my vision of a perfect world, you would be able to walk down to your nearest convenience store and buy a drug with your groceries. Every drug ought to be legal, and just like anything else you put in your body, have "nutrition facts" of sorts, telling you the proper dosage for your age/weight and potential risks involved in taking them.
So would the heroin & meth just be in sweets isle so the super markets could get the kids hooked early?
would they have health warnings on them like cigarettes? Heroin packets with pictures of dead junkies with needles hanging out heir cock?
I would like to let people know I am merely playing devil's advocate here and having a look at an issue we all feel strongly about, please do not get offended by my questions I am purely picking holes for the sake of debate
Well okay fine, they can keep the Heroin and Meth behind the counter
Damn soccer moms :P
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We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.
No ILLEGAL DRUGS!
Simple, if you are endowed by your creator with the right to pursue happiness, the government is there to "secure these rights", and a government derives it powers from the consent of the governed. Then how can a government tell you what you can and can not do to pursue happiness?
IMHO, the only things that should be illegal and in the purview of the government are things that cause harm to another.
Get drunk or stoned and kill some one, Illegal!
Shoot another person for no reason or to take what is his, Illegal!
Now for the fun stuff.
Pistol duel between two adults which results in one of the individuals being killed, LEGAL (If you walked into a duel then it is your fault) (Your shot misses the man you are dueling with and kills a bystander, illegal)
Man robbing your house and you shoot and kill him, LEGAL.
Selling anything from weed to your own kidney LEGAL!
Same sex mirage LEGAL (Not the governments business)
I prefer the libertarian philosophy.
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it probably would require a license, but i can't see how licensing/registering home meth labs or similar could be enforced - yes a lot of law-abiding citizens WOULD get it licensed/registered, but for every 1 that does there will be 5 that doesn't.
even if all drugs were legal there would still be a criminal element that bypassed the laws and restrictions.
even in this highly hypothetical discussion there appears to be grey areas...
So the people that didn't follow the licensing/regulation rules in this hypothetical red taped utopia they would be prosecuted?
yes, again like alcohol - home brewing is not illegal, you can buy kits for it. so yes, it should be fine. if it was my entire back garden would be full of giant skunk plants :)
What if a mischievous young teenager hopped over your wooden fence and helped himself to some of your fine ass buds because he could smell them from the end of the street? Would this bring any consequences on yourself?
i think any law enforced in this way would be an exact replica of the alcohol laws - so what would happen if some mischievous young teenager raided your liquor cabinet, got pissed and threw up? - is that in any way YOUR fault? i don't think so, it's the cheeky little bastards own fault.
they are ALL drugs, so therefore they should ALL have the same law applied to them, regardless of whatever drugs they are
no drugs should be illegal. they should all be regulated. then we get what we pay for and don't have to worry about snorting crushed glass or whatever, the government gets more taxes to deal with the addicts (much like alcoholics), the prisons would actually be able to cope with the amount of REAL criminals and basically EVERYONE's happy 8)
I might make an exception for shit like Krocodile, which is apparently epidemic in Russia. Some of the most extreme examples of tissue necrosis I've ever seen were in Krocodile addicts.
Guru
i agree krokodil looks some really nasty, but you can't split it because it wouldn't be seen as fair - it's either ALL or nothing. if people want to pump themselves full of that nasty shit it's up to them
Addicts are going to be addcits with or without prohibition. Atleast if its out in the open people can be aware of whats going on more and can be helped.
^^THIS, with regards to krokodil, heroin, and everything else.
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i dont think i can say much now that hasn't been said but basically i agree with everything Raoul Duke has said.......
All drugs legal now! Treat addicts or people acting up on drugs in the same manner as un-ruley drunks or alcoholics as said. If we kept people in supply of good drugs, then shit like Krokodil would probably never exist.
too many people that are still blind to the truth though, and they are still gonna need some convincing!!
great thread of discussion though OP the GG....still gotta check out your budder/oils!!! ;)
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yeah i think that sounds logical enough. possessing/taking drugs should not be a crime, but if you perform a criminal act while on them (again using alcohol as an example - if you are pissed up and start a fight, you will invariably be arrested for affray/GBH/ABH/whatever) then you should of course be punished
Sounds logical.
So if possessing/taking drugs were legal, the sale of such items without being a license holder would be illegal? What about production?
I think GreenGiant raises a very good point. If all drugs were legalized would that mean I could make some Shake 'n' Bake for personal use for me and my friends just like someone who home brews beer these days? Or extract some DMT for myself instead of going down to the Drug Store/Bottle Shop and buying it? Or would this be illegal like growing your own Tobacco and making cigarette and cigars for yourself?(in Australia)
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I might make an exception for shit like Krocodile, which is apparently epidemic in Russia. Some of the most extreme examples of tissue necrosis I've ever seen were in Krocodile addicts.
Guru
According to the article I read about it (the one linked somewhere here in the forums), those people use krocodile as a cheap substitute for better opiates.
If better opiates were produced legally, there would be some competition in the market, generic brands would be available, people might actually be able to acquire the ingredients to make them... they wouldn't need the krocodile anymore.
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maybe it's my pagan roots, but i still believe "harm no one, and do as thy will"
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No drugs should be illegal. If I wish to place a fatal dose of Meth in my system I should be allowed.
Now, I do believe that the government should place regulations so that the public are not hurt by this, so 'using in public' would have to be regulated in some form or fashion as I see obvious consequences.
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No drugs should be illegal. If I wish to place a fatal dose of Meth in my system I should be allowed.
Now, I do believe that the government should place regulations so that the public are not hurt by this, so 'using in public' would have to be regulated in some form or fashion as I see obvious consequences.
So something like a Drunk in public fine or drunk and disorderly but for other drugs as well?
Also what do people think of having something like a specialist bar but for different drugs?
Like having an "uppers" bar from drugs like MDMA, Meth, Coke etc and a "downers" or "chillers" bar for drugs like weed, Xanax and something like the Amsterdam coffee shops for tipping
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No drugs should be illegal. If I wish to place a fatal dose of Meth in my system I should be allowed.
Now, I do believe that the government should place regulations so that the public are not hurt by this, so 'using in public' would have to be regulated in some form or fashion as I see obvious consequences.
So something like a Drunk in public fine or drunk and disorderly but for other drugs as well?
Also what do people think of having something like a specialist bar but for different drugs?
Like having an "uppers" bar from drugs like MDMA, Meth, Coke etc and a "downers" or "chillers" bar for drugs like weed, Xanax and something like the Amsterdam coffee shops for tipping
Exactly.
No government should control our bodies or the substances we place in them. Yet, they should protect the welfare of the public and it should be their duty to uphold our safety. Therefore, if drugs were all legal, they would have to regulate the use of them in public.
Molly bars would be full of love. <3 I'd love it there.
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We already have Molly Bar's, they're called night clubs :P haha
But I agree with what you have said. Hopefully it will happen in our lifetime, each generation seems to get more and more informed about drugs so it might just happen.