Silk Road forums
Discussion => Off topic => Topic started by: Badapple on January 24, 2012, 12:30 am
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Im so pissed right now, I could scream. Im not using my vendors name, obv. But, I just had a buyer claim that he/she received only a portion of his order. I know for a FACT that order was sent with the correct amount. HE/She even said that they wanted to preserve my rating and what should we do. THATS HOLDING ME FUCKING HOSTAGE!!! I have no recourse. I have to bend or my rating suffers. Im 100 percent confident that this is what is happening. I know some of you will say, "are you sure you sent the right amount?" the answer is "IM 100 PERCENT POSITIVE".. The only thing that I can do is put this customer on my shit list and never send to him/her again. This is one of the bad things with feedback system. HOLDING HOSTAGE!!!..
I dont know what the answer is, but should I take the financial loss or the hit on the rating?
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This isn't the first time this has happened, and frankly I think this a complete piss-take/cuntish thing to do on the buyers part...
I would recommend messaging SR or contacting SR support as this shit should not be happening, I know your probably going to hate me for saying this but the decision is ultimately up to you, what's more important to you the financial loss in this transaction or your feedback score?
If I was in your shoes, I'd take a step back and evaluate your "rep" if it's amazing, you get a lot of orders then take a hit on the rating, if your just starting out or your name isn't really "out there" then take a hit on the financial loss.
hope that helps, I hope admins put a system together so feedback extortion no longer becomes a issue.
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It's been said before, buyer feedback could be a good thing. As a vendor, you may want to check the "bad buyers" but that is obviously not a perfect or fast system.
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definitely needs to be implemented ASAP, it's such a shame seeing amazing vendors have dents in their feedback, personally I couldn't give a shit about a perfect feedback score if it's over 80-90% and the person has a good rep on the boards then that's fine with me
but some people are really anal about it, expect 100% perfect feedback or they'll choose one vendor over the other just over a few difference in percentage points over feedback...
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That is holding hostage...Full Members know the go to people either way, but it certainly affects prospects and noobs who will become known among the community. I think 90 percent is a good vendor, everyone needs to see 99.4 or higher it seems....
This sounds like an issue that could destroy some great vendors and needs to be looked into thoroughly
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if buyer feedback ever becomes implemented you're going to see a sharp decline in sales here.
here's the issue... the vendor holds ALL THE CARDS - sure a buyer might be able to shit on someones rating, but that's small potatoes to some zealous vendor who retaliates against what could be a legitimate negative feedback by posting someones mailing address.
fuck
that
shit
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The problem that Im seeing (and Ive talked to other vendors about this) is that more and more buyers are reverse scamming. I know its always been an issue, but for some reason, I think its becoming more of an issue.(especially with opiates) Probably due to the fact there are a lot more buyers here.
Why should it be a one way street with vendors being the only one rated? Ebay, buyers are rated? (I think) Most, if not all, descent vendors will be truthful in their feedback with buyers. the buyer has a great advantage. If a buyer were to receive too much negative feedback, they can start all over. Much tougher for a vendor to do that, (unless their rating is shit anyways) but they have to pony up more money.
The only way I see a buyer not liking a buyers rating system is that he/she will be a terrible buyer...Im a buyer here too, I wouldn't mind being rated. I always finalize the second I get it and give honest reviews. We vendors already have a lot to deal with. Unless your a vendor, you'll never know what type of work goes into this. (much tougher than I thought it would be). AT least a vendor should be able to put a comment next to the negative or even positive feedback.
I know that we have seen an influx of product lately, but im afraid we will lose a lot of new buyers. On the flip side. The info that we can now see about the buyer helps a lot. The other thing that we buyers have to remember is that reverse scamming still is quite low and right and still can be built in to my prices. But if it were to rise, I guarantee prices will rise to combat it. Reverse scamming eventually hurts everyone, its kind of like shoplifting. The stores just pass on their losses on to the customer. I, for one would never be held hostage. If I think someone is trying to scam me, i would say, "Go ahead, give me a 1/5" then explain it on my page..Unless the dollar amount was low, then id take the hit.. I guess thats the best way to handle that situation, badapple...
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Sorry to hear this is happening. As a buyer, I really dislike hearing about other buyers reverse-scamming vendors. I have about 10 or so transactions under my belt, which isn't very much, but I can see the validity in a buyer-rated system like Ebay. If it works for them, it should work for SR...
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buyers do have a rating system. you can see how many transactions we have completed, how many times we've been too fucked up to log back in and finalize, and how many times refunds have been issued via dispute.
the only thing i can see being added is a thumbs up or thumbs down, and an 'average' of how many days after an item is marked 'shipped' that it takes a buyer to finalize.
on the other hand, i'd love to be able to see how long a vendor is taking to mark items as shipped, be it weekly averages and all-time averages.. but would this lead to sellers marking in-transit prematurely? who knows.
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The problem that Im seeing (and Ive talked to other vendors about this) is that more and more buyers are reverse scamming. I know its always been an issue, but for some reason, I think its becoming more of an issue.(especially with opiates) Probably due to the fact there are a lot more buyers here.
Why should it be a one way street with vendors being the only one rated? Ebay, buyers are rated? (I think) Most, if not all, descent vendors will be truthful in their feedback with buyers. the buyer has a great advantage. If a buyer were to receive too much negative feedback, they can start all over. Much tougher for a vendor to do that, (unless their rating is shit anyways) but they have to pony up more money.
The only way I see a buyer not liking a buyers rating system is that he/she will be a terrible buyer...Im a buyer here too, I wouldn't mind being rated. I always finalize the second I get it and give honest reviews. We vendors already have a lot to deal with. Unless your a vendor, you'll never know what type of work goes into this. (much tougher than I thought it would be). AT least a vendor should be able to put a comment next to the negative or even positive feedback.
I know that we have seen an influx of product lately, but im afraid we will lose a lot of new buyers. On the flip side. The info that we can now see about the buyer helps a lot. The other thing that we buyers have to remember is that reverse scamming still is quite low and right and still can be built in to my prices. But if it were to rise, I guarantee prices will rise to combat it. Reverse scamming eventually hurts everyone, its kind of like shoplifting. The stores just pass on their losses on to the customer. I, for one would never be held hostage. If I think someone is trying to scam me, i would say, "Go ahead, give me a 1/5" then explain it on my page..Unless the dollar amount was low, then id take the hit.. I guess thats the best way to handle that situation, badapple...
I love eBay :) but it does seem too many eBay buyers are coming here. This is a frequent problem on the Bay. buyers USED to be able to get a negative rating, but eBay abolished that. If yuo don't want to give them positive feedback, you just have to not give them feedback. When eBay started protecting sellers by declining scammers if you had a DCN, NOW there is no recourse against liars. Even WITH a DCN, the buyer just says you sent the wrong thing, and they get an autorefund, right out of your account. It's complete bullshit, and I have quit selling on eBay because of this happening too frequently. On one recent order, I literally made an uncut film from packing to posting, just in case, as it was a high dollar item. I then sent said vid to ebay support prior to any incidents, again, just in case.
Then there's the other side....what IF the vendor shorted you, or sent you wrong product? I don't think said vendor would take time to make a new identity on forums and complain about it. But, what if? I am still new, but I have read over and over, it's a shared risk. Shared. We risk you being a LEO, scammer, or just a short bagger.....you risk us being douchebag liars, or LEO. It's a shared risk.
Seems like Paperchasing's idea has more merit?? http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?topic=9192.msg87957#msg87957
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Charging a "new buyer fee" of just for example $150
would keep out the riff raff plus enable the vendors to deal
with serious buyers not hit and run buyers holding vendors hostage
over a positive rating.
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here's the issue... the vendor holds ALL THE CARDS - sure a buyer might be able to shit on someones rating, but that's small potatoes to some zealous vendor who retaliates against what could be a legitimate negative feedback by posting someones mailing address.
But think about it. if the vendor did this? who would buy from them? 90% of their potential/actual customers would be scared in case the same shit happened to them, plus if the order was in the $100's, posting the mailing address wouldn't help recoup a single cent.
the only thing i can see being added is a thumbs up or thumbs down, and an 'average' of how many days after an item is marked 'shipped' that it takes a buyer to finalize.
I like this idea, thumbs up or thumbs down, lets you know if your going to have a "problematic" customer on your hands or not..
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Feedback extortion is a very real problem here on the Road. It happens to me probably 3 or 4 times a month. Any vender who's had this happen to them can attest it is very unpleasant experience, far beyond the monetary consequences it may entail. The feeling is akin to that of being violated.
However, I think sharetheroad has a point in that we venders carry a lot of responsibility being given buyer's addresses. I also think that if venders were allowed retribution feedback it would change the dynamic of the Road for the worse. I want buyers to feel free to leave honest feedback with out fear of receiving a vindictive blemish on their own record.
My proposed solution is to allow venders to be able to see the feedback left by a buyer for other venders in previous transactions in the same way that a vender is given access to a buyer's stats once a buyer places an order.
This would lend a little accountability to the feedback system and reign in asshole buyers. If I see a buyer has a history of poor feedback for otherwise well-ranked venders, then I am given the opportunity to avoid a potential trouble-maker. That is really all any vender should need: the opportunity to avoid the asshole here on SR.
Once buyers realize that their feedbacks can effect their future access, they are less likely to be dicks. This way a buyer can only pull a feedback extortion attack once or twice before other venders catch on.
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My proposed solution is to allow venders to be able to see the feedback left by a buyer for other venders in previous transactions in the same way that a vender is given access to a buyer's stats once a buyer places an order.
Once buyers realize that their feedbacks can effect their future access, they are less likely to be dicks. This way a buyer can only pull a feedback extortion attack once or twice before other venders catch on.
Letting sellers see the buyers feedback that they gave too other sellers sounds like a great idea, better then opening up a competition of dueling feedback between buyers and sellers.