Silk Road forums

Discussion => Security => Topic started by: erica on February 14, 2012, 05:22 am

Title: moving bitcoins to SR
Post by: erica on February 14, 2012, 05:22 am
I have a bunch of money in mtgox and wondered if i should transfer to my bitcoins wallet on my PC then to SR or use bitcoins fog then SR?
Title: Re: moving bitcoins to SR
Post by: imaloonyguy on February 14, 2012, 05:54 am
is it a really bad idea to move them straight from mtgox to here??
Title: Re: moving bitcoins to SR
Post by: blockrockinbeats on February 14, 2012, 05:58 am
I don't use MtGox, but I've read in other threads that you cannot transfer straight from there to SR because they are able to somehow recognise that your SR wallet is hidden via the Tor network. I believe this may result in MtGox halting all of your transactions and asking you for ID.

It's better to be safe than sorry. Just add another layer of distance between you and SR by using a wallet or two in between. Instawallet will do fine.

There are a lot of other threads available on this issue, so try doing a couple of searches for more info.
Title: Re: moving bitcoins to SR
Post by: wxevkexi on February 14, 2012, 06:00 am
I have a bunch of money in mtgox and wondered if i should transfer to my bitcoins wallet on my PC then to SR or use bitcoins fog then SR?

I think that the really careful ones on here recommend mixers like bitfog.

I just go from MtGox one or more intermediate wallets, to SR. Just make sure that you access these intermediate wallets over tor. So, if you use Instawallet, access it over your tor browser. And if you use your bitcoin wallet on the PC, set it up to use the tor proxy. The idea is to disconnect these wallets from your identity (IP address etc.).
Title: Re: moving bitcoins to SR
Post by: erica on February 14, 2012, 06:23 am
OK so I'll try insta wallet and see how that goes....I just don't wanna lose any money/bitcoins

Thanks
Title: Re: moving bitcoins to SR
Post by: floryflory on February 14, 2012, 04:40 pm
OK so I'll try insta wallet and see how that goes....I just don't wanna lose any money/bitcoins

Thanks

If i were you I would do like this:

First off, do NOT access multiple wallets under the same TOR identity, always change before... With this guide you will be creating 4 instawallets

So, create your first wallet at instawallet (with a unique tor identity). This address will be your alibi if necessary, the person who promised to take money for a cancer fighting charity or something along those lines... transfer all your bitcoins to this address (remember to close the bitwallet and tor before accessing mtgox)

Then transfer a random percentage of the bitcoins to a second wallet, wait an hour, and transfer the remaining to the third wallet. (preferably keep both amounts BELOW the amount of any purchase that you will ever make on silkroad).

Then you wait a bit, and transfer both instawallets to a forth fresh instawallet, and by using the "greenaddress" (still never accessing the same instawallet with the same tor identity)

From the forth wallet, you empty it with 2 transactions to your SR account, preferably by using 2 different destination addresses (you can generate a new address in your profile). Again, do a green address transfer from instawallet

This is my method, relatively easy and I believe to be extremely safe.
Title: Re: moving bitcoins to SR
Post by: ThisOneGuy on February 14, 2012, 06:13 pm
I don't use MtGox, but I've read in other threads that you cannot transfer straight from there to SR because they are able to somehow recognise that your SR wallet is hidden via the Tor network. I believe this may result in MtGox halting all of your transactions and asking you for ID.

I don't think it matters if your wallet is torified.  Only if you access the MTGOX site using tor.  If this were the case I'm sure there would be a lot more people getting their accounts locked.

*I am not the owner of mtgox and never had a mtgox account locked.  I don't claim to know their exact rules, just saying that I do not believe this is the case.

edit:  I still don't recommend that you send straight from SR to MTGOX.  Just saying that if you don't access the site through TOR you won't be banned. IP addresses are associated with the txn.  If someone somehow knew they were SR coins they would be able to also tell they went into MTGOX, and I am guessing they will just hand over their access logs to LEO if pressured.  Still fairly unlikely, but totally within the realm of possibility.  I also recommend using multiple instawallets and a torified bitcoin client in between SR and MTGOX.

Also if you would like to torify your bitcoin client it is as simple as checking the use proxy box.  It is already setup to run through tor if you have it running. 
Title: Re: moving bitcoins to SR
Post by: TalkingHead on February 14, 2012, 06:31 pm
You can send bc directly to SR from Mt. Gox but you can't do it over Tor. But if your Mt. Gox account is anonymous (and tied to a Tormail account - and somebody please correct me if I'm wrong - it can't be tied to you unless they seize your computer and analyze it. Even if LE suspects a suspicious IP address is doing it, can they really prove it was specifically you doing the transfers?
Title: Re: moving bitcoins to SR
Post by: floryflory on February 14, 2012, 06:42 pm
Mt. Gox will work with LE whenever they feel it necessary, they have openly stated this.

Even if you created the mt gox account anonymously, you are still connecting to it with your IP address, and you are still paying for the bitcoins with a creditcard which is yours i assume...

Mt gox simply hands over the logs which states your home ip address connected and logged in with the same account that transferred bc's to silkroad...

Ofc this is assuming that SR has been infiltrated, but why cut corners when it comes to being as secure as possible?
Title: Re: moving bitcoins to SR
Post by: QTC on February 14, 2012, 08:45 pm
I don't use MtGox, but I've read in other threads that you cannot transfer straight from there to SR because they are able to somehow recognise that your SR wallet is hidden via the Tor network. I believe this may result in MtGox halting all of your transactions and asking you for ID.

It's better to be safe than sorry. Just add another layer of distance between you and SR by using a wallet or two in between. Instawallet will do fine.

There are a lot of other threads available on this issue, so try doing a couple of searches for more info.
Stop giving bad advice, proxying your bitcoins through another wallet (or two, or two hundred) does nothing to unlink you from them.
Title: Re: moving bitcoins to SR
Post by: TalkingHead on February 14, 2012, 09:14 pm

Even if you created the mt gox account anonymously, you are still connecting to it with your IP address, and you are still paying for the bitcoins with a creditcard which is yours i assume...


I've been making a cash deposit to Mt. Gox. But you're right about the IP address, though if nothing really unlinks it, then we're all assuming the risk of Mt. Gox.
Title: Re: moving bitcoins to SR
Post by: CaptainSensible on February 14, 2012, 09:15 pm
If you bought your coins through MtGox then there is information tying you to those coins.  It might just be your IP address, or your bank account, or some other method you used to pay for those coins, but you've probably been ID'd. 

Your only hope is to send those coins through several different destinations before they get to SR.  Bitcoin fog might help.  Bitcoins are easily tracked -- they are numbered -- so all you can do is transfer them to intermediary destinations so you can say that someone else had control of the coins when they were sent to SR.
Title: Re: moving bitcoins to SR
Post by: PizzaBox on February 15, 2012, 03:17 am
OK so I'll try insta wallet and see how that goes....I just don't wanna lose any money/bitcoins

Thanks

If i were you I would do like this:

First off, do NOT access multiple wallets under the same TOR identity, always change before... With this guide you will be creating 4 instawallets

So, create your first wallet at instawallet (with a unique tor identity). This address will be your alibi if necessary, the person who promised to take money for a cancer fighting charity or something along those lines... transfer all your bitcoins to this address (remember to close the bitwallet and tor before accessing mtgox)

Then transfer a random percentage of the bitcoins to a second wallet, wait an hour, and transfer the remaining to the third wallet. (preferably keep both amounts BELOW the amount of any purchase that you will ever make on silkroad).

Then you wait a bit, and transfer both instawallets to a forth fresh instawallet, and by using the "greenaddress" (still never accessing the same instawallet with the same tor identity)

From the forth wallet, you empty it with 2 transactions to your SR account, preferably by using 2 different destination addresses (you can generate a new address in your profile). Again, do a green address transfer from instawallet

This is my method, relatively easy and I believe to be extremely safe.

this method sounds comprehensive. but one thing i don't understand is what is a " green address " ?? is it a fresh account with different information that is accessed via a different IP to the previous accounts ??
Title: Re: moving bitcoins to SR
Post by: CaptainSensible on February 15, 2012, 04:03 am
One thing to remember when dealing with Instawallet is to copy the full link to the wallet.  When you go to www.instawallet.org a new wallet is generated with it's own Bitcoin address for receiving payments.  It's not enough to copy ONLY the Bitcoin address.  You'll need the link (which will look something like https://www.instawallet.org/w/27g6NxTbNhXab57jKlZ32) or you'll never be able to access the coins you sent to that Bitcoin address. 

If you send Bitcoins to an Instawallet address and forget to bookmark the link to that wallet don't feel too bad, it's happened to plenty of other people.  But you are, unfortunately, SOL. 
Title: Re: moving bitcoins to SR
Post by: blockrockinbeats on February 15, 2012, 06:07 am
Stop giving bad advice, proxying your bitcoins through another wallet (or two, or two hundred) does nothing to unlink you from them.

I never claimed that using wallets completely "unlinks" someone from their BTC. I just said it "adds another layer of distance." If that's such bad advice, then why are so many other people on the forums suggesting it in multiple threads? And what do you propose instead?

Edit: Nevermind, I'm an idiot! Currently reading some of your other posts in another thread (http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?topic=9271.0) and seeing your point.
Title: Re: moving bitcoins to SR
Post by: QTC on February 17, 2012, 12:29 am
I never claimed that using wallets completely "unlinks" someone from their BTC. I just said it "adds another layer of distance."
Which does nothing, one can just follow the blockchain all the way back to the origin.
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If that's such bad advice, then why are so many other people on the forums suggesting it in multiple threads?
Because they're in an echo chamber where people don't know what they're talking about.
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And what do you propose instead?
Blind mix although I'm not aware of any public ones, a normal mixing service is also sufficient.
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Edit: Nevermind, I'm an idiot! Currently reading some of your other posts in another thread (http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?topic=9271.0) and seeing your point.
The evil intermediary is really a hypothetical attack, I did not come up with that, and I'm not aware of law enforcement ever doing it. In fact I've never seen it described in academic research either, only by a person on another drug forum. I think it's very likely it'll happen though, maybe this server will get owned, maybe there'll be a fed-run sting market, maybe a vendor who sells both drugs and bitcoins gets arrested/turned, whatever. Protect yourself even if it isn't happening yet. ;-)
Title: Re: moving bitcoins to SR
Post by: Shinto on February 17, 2012, 04:50 am
Quote
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And what do you propose instead?
Blind mix although I'm not aware of any public ones, a normal mixing service is also sufficient.


First off I'd just like to say that I have been reading all over this forum for the past few weeks and keep stumbling into QTC's posts. I think they are wonderful and very helpful. He knows what he is talking about.
So I thank you QTC! *applauds*  ;D

I am in particular need of mixing services. Can you recommend any that wont cost much (or free), and how much should I mix before sending to SR?
Title: Re: moving bitcoins to SR
Post by: QTC on February 17, 2012, 05:25 am
First off I'd just like to say that I have been reading all over this forum for the past few weeks and keep stumbling into QTC's posts. I think they are wonderful and very helpful. He knows what he is talking about.
So I thank you QTC! *applauds*  ;D
Thanks, but maybe I only sound like I know what I'm talking about. Or maybe I'm a federal psyop agent handing out shitty advice, or even a dog. :-P This is why if anybody wants to know what the best security choices are, they should study security instead of listening to random people on a public forum. (At the same time, we have people in the vending scene who have been working on their operational security for many years now and are almost impossible to bust other than by ordering product from a fed combined with long-term multi-jurisdictional surveillance. Once you identify these people, you should listen to them too.)
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I am in particular need of mixing services. Can you recommend any that wont cost much (or free), and how much should I mix before sending to SR?
fogcore5n3ov3tui.onion (slow), bitlaundry.appspot.com (more expensive)
Title: Re: moving bitcoins to SR
Post by: Shinto on February 17, 2012, 07:48 am
First off I'd just like to say that I have been reading all over this forum for the past few weeks and keep stumbling into QTC's posts. I think they are wonderful and very helpful. He knows what he is talking about.
So I thank you QTC! *applauds*  ;D
Thanks, but maybe I only sound like I know what I'm talking about. Or maybe I'm a federal psyop agent handing out shitty advice, or even a dog. :-P This is why if anybody wants to know what the best security choices are, they should study security instead of listening to random people on a public forum. (At the same time, we have people in the vending scene who have been working on their operational security for many years now and are almost impossible to bust other than by ordering product from a fed combined with long-term multi-jurisdictional surveillance. Once you identify these people, you should listen to them too.)

Indeed. However, I'm not one of those dumb noobs that mindlessly carries off of anything they hear.
I take what you say into consideration and that is it. :)
I have light tech savvy skills and an above average intellect to not just take peoples "word for it". lol
I do respect you saying that even you could be... well, whomever.
-Shinto
Title: Re: moving bitcoins to SR
Post by: erica on February 18, 2012, 12:47 am
I went with mtgox and ended up not being able to withdraw my bitcoins until I send noterized ID. I am a little frustrated
Title: Re: moving bitcoins to SR
Post by: Shinto on February 18, 2012, 06:53 am
I went with mtgox and ended up not being able to withdraw my bitcoins until I send noterized ID. I am a little frustrated

They don't let you withdraw ANY funds until you have verified your account with the proper documentation.
Your only option now is to legitimately spend that currency once you've verified your account or have great risk otherwise.

Do some research before just funding any site. You might want to rethink your strategy...
Title: Re: moving bitcoins to SR
Post by: TalkingHead on February 18, 2012, 07:22 pm
Erica, I don't understand why they want documentation. Did you sign on through Tor? Are you just trying to withdraw your bc to a private wallet or to SR. I've most recently only used a cash deposit -> bitinstant/cashtrust -> Mt. Gox -> SR and have never had a problem. Can you give us all details as to what happened?
Title: Re: moving bitcoins to SR
Post by: Shinto on February 18, 2012, 10:23 pm
Erica, I don't understand why they want documentation. Did you sign on through Tor? Are you just trying to withdraw your bc to a private wallet or to SR. I've most recently only used a cash deposit -> bitinstant/cashtrust -> Mt. Gox -> SR and have never had a problem. Can you give us all details as to what happened?

Mt. Gox does not allow you to access your account from Tor...
They have said that they will freeze the account if attempted accesses from Tor have been used.