Silk Road forums
Discussion => Silk Road discussion => Topic started by: mojorizen on January 01, 2013, 06:24 am
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I think I came up with a new deal to cut down on FE. 100% FE ain't fair and it ain't right. SR doesn't do anything about stopping the FE. So we got to be clever to save our asses as buyers. And sellers say they need it to "avoid buyer scams"
Too many vendors are starting to demand FE even if you, like me, have good stats. That's bullshit.
So here's the solution:
50% FE, 50% escrow. Like in movies when they go, "half up front, then other half when the job is done." In fact, that can be done now.
How? You make *twin listings* for the same gear. Like this:
Let's say someone wants to buy 10 grams of bud but they ain't got the stats or you just don't want to bankroll that much and wait two weeks for some lazy abscent minded phucka to pay. So the twin listing would be like this:
10 gram bud strain OG Kush (1/2 -50% upfront)
10 gram bug strain OG Kush (2/2 - 50% escrow)
Then you say in each listing that a buyer must orders both or order for either will be cancelled or not shipped until buyer selects both orders. When 50% upfront is paid, bud ships. 50% escrow is due in 3 days after delivery or buyer will be blacklisted.
If the buyer fucks up and tries to scam and SR reso lets him get away with it, at least you cover your costs and you're liquid. You just lose some profit.
That's the way you do it.
Only problem I can see is SR vendor fee levels. breaking it in half like that could mean higher fee for each that would be lower if it were one order. So just factor that in when you price things.
So now we buyers lose less when you vendors try to scam us. And you vendors lose less when we buyers try to scam you.
But if everything goes right, vendor get's two 5/5 feedbacks for a single order since each order is a seperate order. And the vendor gets better cash flow situation cause he got some loot to work with right away. You can accept more orders and take more risks with new buyers.
Discuss the pitfalls and let's try to make it a better idea. Idea looks good in my head but I bet I'm missing something somewhere.
GO:
Pitfall #1 - every seller may want to use this option. Fix? New sellers can't use it until 35 escrow orders done. Established sellers can't use it for orders cheaper than $50.
What else y'all got?
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I'm liking this idea. I have an order at the moment where a buyer has a fairly high refund rating with 3 transactions (about 9btc spent) and wants about 9 btc worth of goods. I don't like the idea of finalizing early as a buyer though and it's not part of my policy. You may want to take it a step further though and say only people over a certain refund rate and new buyers with less than 5-10 successful buys.
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doenst really discourage scamming.
if the vendor doesnt send out the product then he still gets 50% of the money for no cost.
i would rather implement forced policies such as making it against SR rules to force FE if someone has a refund ratio under 5% and more than $3000 spent. it could be enforced in code.
or something like that
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Not bad, but I think I have a better proposal.
FE: 0%
Escrow: 100%
I call it the "hunjy/zip" option.
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I love this idea. 50% down, and 50% on delivery. It solves some of the problems with the system.
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Lots of vendors, all selling different types of drugs do not require FE.
Finalising early is the same as rolling dice on some back alley type shit.
Whether your FEing the full amount or just fifty percent of it, your still leaving yourself open to get fucked,
and you shouldnt even consider fe if your the type to complain about getting ripped,
after making yourself the perfect mark.
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Why would a vendor want FE. I hate dealers like that. Escrow all the way, that whats make a site legit or your trying to make this like BMR, FUCK THAT. That should be issued for bad stat buyers only(really BAD).
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We all should beleve in SR SUPPORT to be fair in diffrent issues that arise. Everybody should be an ESCROW. I don't care if you have over 300 transactions. Doesnt make you speacial to request FE.
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Although FE is risky there are a few good vendors that require it, which enables them to keep up constant stock whilst sending out copious amounts of orders. I don't see how anybody can try and shift the responsibility of finalising early onto anybody else (sr support?). It's your choice whether you hit the button or not, and reading through a vendors profile page will indicate whether they want you to or not.
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I never FE. But too many vendors are starting to go FE only or are raising the requirements for escrow higher and higher.
SR support is never going to outlaw FE. if they didn't do it after Tony76, they never will. Not by code or penalty for vendors who ask for FE.
So this is an option that keeps and honest vendor and honest buyer honest.
It cuts scamming down by a max of 50% on both sides.
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We all should beleve in SR SUPPORT to be fair in diffrent issues that arise. Everybody should be an ESCROW. I don't care if you have over 300 transactions. Doesnt make you speacial to request FE.
Yet my business is BOOMING. Thank god I have the elves to help me!!!! But I treat people right, and I understand some sellers are scamming with FE. I am just asking that you don't put us all in the same basket. There are some very good sellers who ask for FE. I know- I am one of them! I got sick of passing on the cost of scamming buyers, so I went FE only and now my prices are going down, down, down!!!
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If your an honest vendor, you should have no promblem with Escrow. I know buyers have bad stats, Attracts way more scammers. Also if a vendor wants FE, Im not doing it even if he has over 300 T. He could turn scammer and get away with alot of money, happens alot man.
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If your an honest vendor, you should have no promblem with Escrow. I know buyers have bad stats, Attracts way more scammers. Also if a vendor wants FE, Im not doing it even if he has over 300 T. He could turn scammer and get away with alot of money, happens alot man.
I respect your right to stay in escrow and select vendors who support this. But don't expect to get prices like I offer that way- not when all other factors are equal. Scamming buyers cost a vendor A TON of money, and this is passed on to you with higher prices.
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Last thing I'm going to say, most vedors have DCN (check after delv of course). SR Support will look at that of course. Also if somebody says sending you fake shit, I mean I can tell between email conversations, whos right also feedbacks, I mean you can find whos lying. SR SUPPORT is very fair, they don't favor anybody. That wouldnt be in interset to do that if you run the site because there always new dealers common anyways. As an Admin you want to be known as very fair person. Attracts why more client base.
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Yeah but there's no need to spread constant bullshit posts about fe this fe that.
Do so at you're own risk, the option works for some vendors(frankm , flaxceed)
There's no need to piss and moan about who you're not going to order from, just don't order from them.
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I honestly don't understand why this option hasn't existed since day 1.
%50 up front and %50 on delivery is the standard narco business model and is IMO the best method to ensure vendors and customers feel satisfied they are being looked after.
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Scamming buyers cost a vendor A TON of money, and this is passed on to you with higher prices.
Scamming vendors cost A TON of buyers a lot of money, and this isn't passed on to you/them in any way(other then in profits).
Why not... just offer both? FE-items and FEless-items, charge more if they go without FE. Or shipping-options, even. FE+Priority for 0.5btc or whatever, FEless+Priority for 1.5btc+?
There IS a middle ground. It isn't half-in and half-out, though. It is giving your buyers an OPTION. :)
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What do you mean we dont do anything about FE? The rules are that a new vendor cannot ask anyone to FE unless they have 35 transactions and have vended for a month. If they violate that then it goes to 60 transactions and cant ask to FE for a couple months. We still let people chose what they want, but we have rules built in so that a vendor has to prove themselves first.
~Flush
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the upcoming problem with this 35 transactions and a month is that many sellers the past year do lotteries for 0.10-0.50 btc.......35 transactions no problem....reputation is there.......
my opinion is strict here: NO MORE FE....and stay in Escrow....both parties participate in a positive way
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Oh hey there's a good idea!
If I was a scammer and could get a bunch of idiots to send me half the money upfront, I'd get half their money and let the other half go to resolution!
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GOD man Im sick of these scammers finding ways to steal money. The rule should be simple its not brain surgery. NO FE, ESCROW. That should be the new rule soon. Vendors asking this BS about 10- 20 transaction BS can Escrow if not must FE, thats BS too. A site should make 1 rule and go on a base by base rule for FE. Like idiots that wait a week or 2 to release money etc..If I ran this site I dont give a fuck what vendors say about that, thats the rule. If you dont like it dont sell.
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I bet the ADMINS get a real headeache about this FE BS. JUst do what you think is right and let people talk what they want. This topic should be done with before the site even existed. Just going in circles for nothing on this. ESCROW that should be it. Anybody opens topics about that just lock it. No need to waste time on something for nothing. ITS like saying A TD should be 14 pts instead of 7.
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LIke I said there could be exceptions for really horrible buyers. VERY VERY bad stats.
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Oh hey there's a good idea!
If I was a scammer and could get a bunch of idiots to send me half the money upfront, I'd get half their money and let the other half go to resolution!
Haha, yes that's true. But instead of Tony76 making say, $200,000. He'd only have made $100,000 and the other $100,000 would have been spread to other vendors from disappointed and cheated buyers.
Personally, I like losing 0%. And so far so good. But if I had to lose, I'd take 50% over 100% any day of the week. No, I won't be smiling and waving a "I still have half my money" flag. But at least I still have something. Something is invariably better than nothing.
Unless it's bad luck. No bad luck is always better than some bad luck. So there's one exception to the rule.
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I say escrow all the way, no fe. If a buyer has iffy stats, if he has autofinalized, if he has a refund rate, then sure, let him fe. But a buyer with a clean sheet should never have to fe.
If sellers are so broke they can't afford to have any money out there because then they have to shut down, those are the most likely to scam. Waiting up to 17 days to make a nice profit doesn't sound so bad. Normal investors wait a year and hope to make 10% return. A sr vendor makes probably 80% and waits a couple weeks.
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Scamming buyers cost a vendor A TON of money, and this is passed on to you with higher prices.
Scamming vendors cost A TON of buyers a lot of money, and this isn't passed on to you/them in any way(other then in profits).
Why not... just offer both? FE-items and FEless-items, charge more if they go without FE. Or shipping-options, even. FE+Priority for 0.5btc or whatever, FEless+Priority for 1.5btc+?
There IS a middle ground. It isn't half-in and half-out, though. It is giving your buyers an OPTION. :)
Good point! Instead of arguing "I want this my way", there is always a solution that both sides can accept. We aren't politicians that can't compromise, and we both have the same goals. We want people to make enough money to continue to vend, and we want buyers to be protected. There will always be some risk in this marketplace but innovative solutions like 50/50 or added fees for escrow can be molded to make 95% of the buyers and sellers happy. The other 5% will hate every solution that is presented no matter what, and they quite frankly just don't matter.
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Scamming buyers cost a vendor A TON of money, and this is passed on to you with higher prices.
Scamming vendors cost A TON of buyers a lot of money, and this isn't passed on to you/them in any way(other then in profits).
Why not... just offer both? FE-items and FEless-items, charge more if they go without FE. Or shipping-options, even. FE+Priority for 0.5btc or whatever, FEless+Priority for 1.5btc+?
There IS a middle ground. It isn't half-in and half-out, though. It is giving your buyers an OPTION. :)
Good point! Instead of arguing "I want this my way", there is always a solution that both sides can accept. We aren't politicians that can't compromise, and we both have the same goals. We want people to make enough money to continue to vend, and we want buyers to be protected. There will always be some risk in this marketplace but innovative solutions like 50/50 or added fees for escrow can be molded to make 95% of the buyers and sellers happy. The other 5% will hate every solution that is presented no matter what, and they quite frankly just don't matter.
I do still think the 50/50 is a bad idea, but an additional chunk of change for the escrow I am fine with. Because you're right, vendors do get shit all over by crappy buyers and those crappy buyers make folks like you move to FE only... and when that happens, crappy sellers show up asking the same just so they can scam-and-run, which makes buyers hate FE... It becomes a bit of a self-powering clusterfuck like that.
... So yeah, I guess I'm throwing my hate into the "give buyers a choice"-ring.
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Plenty of vendors already do this. They will make two custom listings for bulk orders and you FE 5/5 on the first, then they ship Express with tracking or DCN and after you receive it and update the feedback then you buy the second half and use escrow.
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This is a bad idea in my opinion. This could have more potential for hurting users than helping. Start small and build up your stats. Vendors have and should exercise their right to turn down people with poor stats. With good stats comes a good reputation and vendors should respect that by allowing you to remain in escrow. If they don't then use the power of freewill to go elsewhere.
Either way, you are suggesting another way for buyers to give up their rights. 50/50 sounds good, but I would hate to see it become officially supported and eventually accepted as the new normal.
I do get with some bulk orders you might be buying the majority of the vendor's inventory that needs to be restocked/paided for before they can do more business, but to me that isn't a true bulk vendor - just someone who has a bulk listing for a quick buck in the event someone buys the listing.