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Discussion => Silk Road discussion => Topic started by: TheGoodSon on March 06, 2013, 04:48 am

Title: SR Vendors: Start saving offshore!
Post by: TheGoodSon on March 06, 2013, 04:48 am
Hey my fellow vendors,

So today I am going to briefly introduce you to the world of offshore banking.

1. I recommend one of two banks:
- If you are a US citizen: www.loyalbank.com
- If you're not a US citizen: www.europac.com

2. Why?

Your bank accounts are being watched. If you "live beyond" your statistically calculated means, you will be audited. It is not a question of "if", rather when.

3. What kind of account?

You will need to incorporate offshore. Use Seychelles for your corporation and the above banks for your account! Lemme know if you need to find a service provider, I will refer you to the people who set me up.

4. What about privacy?

Neither of the banks listed have a relationship with the USA, to properly bank offshore, one needs to read up on FATCA, specifically with whom the treaties exist. Avoid any country where FATCA is in place. Banking offshore is as secure as you make it. You will be using this account for _savings_ ONLY, you will NOT spend the money stateside unless you're dying. The number one way that people get caught is by transferring money between their stateside accounts and their offshore accounts. Unless you're going to claim your accounts, DO NOT TRANSFER A DIME from the US -> offshore.

5. How then do I get money there?

All major bitcoin services provide for wire transfers. You shall find the best privacy doing that. None of the major BTC providers are based in the US (okay, there's a couple - but MTGOX is in Japan).. for extra security, you can use like Aurumxchange or something like that so your money routes a bit.

6. Gains:

Okay, this is why I have offshore accounts. The onshore banks pay you nothing to hold your money. Every offshore bank I work with pays 0.75%/month at least on CDs of 10k or higher. 12 month CDs can obtain 4% in the Caribbean, and closer to 15% in Mongolia and other places in Asia.

If you have questions, post them below and I will answer to the best of my ability.
Title: Re: SR Vendors: Start saving offshore!
Post by: iLegalBusinessConsultant on March 06, 2013, 06:43 am
interesting read. Thanks for your perspective. I would like to hear how to actually open an offshore account and fund with anonymous btc. Could you please give further details?

One comment I have right now is the interest you are earning is based on the local currency 4% in Carribean dollars and 15% in Mongolian...camel balls? or whatever they use for currency. Generally what you gain in interest you will lose in currency depreciation since usually the higher the interest rate on a currency, the greater it is loosing value vis a vis a low interest but higher value currency pair. So assuming you eventually plan on converting your offshore savings back into some kind of useful currency, then your interest gains will be negated by your loss in currency exchange depreciation.
Title: Re: SR Vendors: Start saving offshore!
Post by: TheGoodSon on March 06, 2013, 08:55 pm
interesting read. Thanks for your perspective. I would like to hear how to actually open an offshore account and fund with anonymous btc. Could you please give further details?

One comment I have right now is the interest you are earning is based on the local currency 4% in Carribean dollars and 15% in Mongolian...camel balls? or whatever they use for currency. Generally what you gain in interest you will lose in currency depreciation since usually the higher the interest rate on a currency, the greater it is loosing value vis a vis a low interest but higher value currency pair. So assuming you eventually plan on converting your offshore savings back into some kind of useful currency, then your interest gains will be negated by your loss in currency exchange depreciation.

The interest rates for the Caribbean were quoted per USD. The East Caribbean $ (XCD on Forex) are fixed at $2.67/USD.
The Mongolian Turks (MNT) are relatively stable. Mongolia's economy is booming right now. They have many minerals.

As per "opening an account anonymously" ....

You can open one over the internet at most banks. You will need to have the following documentations:

1. Notarized passport
2. Bank reference
3. Account applications

You do not need to be at the bank. You can send them scanned copies of everything, so someone who is really skilled with Photoshop could probably fake all the documents.

I however recommend against opening it anonymously. The point i was trying to make in my original post was that you open a legal account and clean the money going into it. If there is ever a problem and you have to go in-country for whatever reason, having legal documentation is critical.

So, the better way to go about it though is through an offshore trust. Using a trust, you can keep your names completely out of any legal work. 
Title: Re: SR Vendors: Start saving offshore!
Post by: masterblaster on March 07, 2013, 12:59 am
You forgot the part where the corrupt bananarepublic government/bank cronies take ur money cause ur just a one man band with no real power and you cant do shit about it. So figure an effective tax rate of 100%.
Title: Re: SR Vendors: Start saving offshore!
Post by: TheGoodSon on March 07, 2013, 01:06 am
There is such a low probability of that happening, it's ludicrous you'd even mention it.
Title: Re: SR Vendors: Start saving offshore!
Post by: masterblaster on March 07, 2013, 01:30 am
Alright i'll bite, so say you put all ur cash offshore, what then, you gonna go live in another country? learn a new language so you can use your cash? What about the income tax rate, some countries might not tax foreigners but you can bet most of them will. Yeah u can buy some big ticket items now, but u gotta pay tax and u can only buy in another country, which depending on the political climate may or may not be there when you visit.
Title: Re: SR Vendors: Start saving offshore!
Post by: TheGoodSon on March 07, 2013, 01:54 am
First, I never said "all", I use offshore accounts for holding accounts after my needs are meant onshore. You're free to do as you wish, but the 0.9% APR offered here domestically doesn't hold a candle to the 3%, 4%, 5%+ offered in other jurisdictions.

The countries where I bank charge 0% for foreign derived income... that's right 0%. The countries I recommend to people charge 0%, the countries where all my friends bank charge... wait for it... 0% on foreign income. None of the countries I bank with have a capital gains tax (that's income derived on interest). They are desperate for foreign investment because that's what floats their economy. Sure some "banana republic cronie" could nationalize and seize assets, but they'd run out of money in short order... similar to the reason why DPR doesn't patriot all the accounts and run away with the money... there's MUCH more money in playing ball and seeking out investment.

You might be asking why they can give foreign investment 0% tax, the reason for this is that they charge the locals like 30%APR on their loans. So you're essentially underwriting a business loan with your savings and investments.

Now, no one is going to make you pay tax in your home country unless you bank in a FATCA country. If however, you get "caught" banking in a foreign nation AND you're American, you can pay up to a 50% tax on your holdings AND you may sit in prison for a year..

That's why I recommended the bank I did because they have a good reputation AND they have so far told the US-Govt to go f-themselves.
Title: Re: SR Vendors: Start saving offshore!
Post by: masterblaster on March 07, 2013, 02:02 am
So instead of buying gold and a small piece of land and digging a nice hole to put it all in, i should trust my freedom and 50% of my money to a foreign bank not to bend over a take when uncle sam comes knocking on their door.

Well whoever takes the bait, do some research on the country you're investing in because if their government has ever taken a loan from US of A, you can bet that you will be SO of L.
Title: Re: SR Vendors: Start saving offshore!
Post by: TheGoodSon on March 07, 2013, 02:13 am
As I said previously, you're free to do whatever you want. There are risks, sure, there are risks with everything.

There is no "bait", there are websites devoted to internationalizing your assets...

If you buy land and cannot pay tax, you lose "your" land.
If you buy precious metals and they're stolen or "confiscated" you lose that.

Buying land, gold, silver, and other metals is a great investment, nobody is disputing that. My idea is for the person who wishes to keep some money available, growing in another country where they can access it in an emergency, but where it's not taxed.

If you don't like the idea, fine, but please don't bash it just because you don't like or maybe you don't understand it.
Title: Re: SR Vendors: Start saving offshore!
Post by: masterblaster on March 07, 2013, 03:01 am
Never said i didnt like it, but the real question is, when you go to get your money out of your mongolian bank account, how much mongolian do you need to know before you can ask for it.
Title: Re: SR Vendors: Start saving offshore!
Post by: iLegalBusinessConsultant on March 07, 2013, 04:09 am


I think a lot of people on SR are actually very interested in finding alternative means to store and grow their wealth. Offshore banking is one way. And masterblaster in his own unique style, brought up some valid points of putting money in a banana republic. I'll inject a point on masterblaster's side, not because I don't think TheGoodSon does not have a legitimate point to make, but because I want TGS to defend his view point more vigorously as the OP...

People wanting to diversify into offshore banking are looking for two things which TGS addresses. They want higher yield, and they want freedom from the US system. As far as yield is concerned, I cannot condone investing in an offshore banking system to earn yield. Yield is always positively correlated with risk, the higher yield you receive, the riskier the investment. You are receiving a high yield in these countries, partly because they have a relatively higher level of economic, political, social, everything else, risk which is reflected in part in the higher yield.  You are being paid to invest in a high risk situation so in effect you are actually not earning anything extra when you price the risk into the yield. Just like junk bonds aren't a sound investment for non pros, investing in risky country banking systems is also not a sound investment for non financial professionals.


Now my question is, describe to me how you would involve bitcoins in your offshore savings and how would that be more effective than simply utilizing USD or your home currency to move your money offshore?
Title: Re: SR Vendors: Start saving offshore!
Post by: Christy Nugs on March 07, 2013, 05:12 am
your whole idea is flawed!
fuck banks and fuck currency!
the us government is printing money out of thin air just like the Nazis did during the end of ww2.
i have been putting my funds into commodities. that is the only real way to hedge against
a false falling global central bank currency destruction.
the: steel, silver, food and other commodity assets i own will have value while every other funny money falls to the floor!
u go ahead an put ur money in some useless bank but plz send me ur addy so i can send u a ( i told u so ) post card.  :P
Title: Re: SR Vendors: Start saving offshore!
Post by: TheGoodSon on March 07, 2013, 05:18 am
@masterblaster - The international banking language is generally English.  (https://www.egolomt.mn/ is the Mongolian Bank)

@iLBC - Let's discuss the risk aspect briefly. A lot of the "risk" stems from the base currency. Case in point, the Mongolian Turk (MNT). While it is true that Mongolian banks are giving away one year certificates at obscene rates (14%-16%) it is also true that their underlying economy is NOT stagnate, it is actually growing thanks to recent mineral discoveries. On the flip side, you have a currency where you can invest like the Euro, the Euro is probably the best dollar substitute in terms of acceptability. The Euro is a very diversified currency and incorporates many markets. The general rate of return for a Euro certificate of deposit is roughly 1.67% (averaged). So you have two different currencies here representing two completely different risk portfolios. Treat the MNT like your "junk bond" and you treat the Euro accounts as your "long term".

@Christy - Sure.. I hope you realized that the whole point of this exercise is to diversify away from currencies like the USD and into smaller currencies with growing economies to back them! I wouldn't advocate holding either USD or Euros longer than you had to. Commodities are a good idea also. I would add to that list manufacturing stocks like Alcoa (AA). I don't think people will need LESS aluminum in the future. I also hope you're investing in brass-cased lead.. if you get my drift.

Now, I would like to introduce another point, which is absolutely critical to your success in opening/operating/maintaining offshore businesses and accounts.

RESEARCH

The noted problems with offshoring some of your assets can often be eased with some research. When you are shopping for a offshore service provider (I am NOT one by the way), if they offer you an account in Switzerland, Denmark, Liechtenstein, or any other western European country.. run away. Also, the traditional tax havens are under intense scrutiny (Panama, Belize, BVI, many East Caribbean Islands). I'm not here to make money off this, I'm here to help you folks out.
Title: Re: SR Vendors: Start saving offshore!
Post by: masterblaster on March 07, 2013, 05:33 am
Where is a good resource to find out what countries are under scrutiny, which ones will sell you out, and which ones are flat out american stooges?
Title: Re: SR Vendors: Start saving offshore!
Post by: iLegalBusinessConsultant on March 07, 2013, 06:56 am
Where is a good resource to find out what countries are under scrutiny, which ones will sell you out, and which ones are flat out american stooges?

there really are no places that won't sell you out to US authorities. If US authorities have a case against you and are that motivated to seize your assets, I would think no government in the world would say no, except for places like North Korea. The state of world is that, you really can't get away from the US system if they are after you. Your only hope is to stay off their radar. Like you said before, buy a little gold and a small property and do what you do quietly and they will generally not bother with the small fish.

Title: Re: SR Vendors: Start saving offshore!
Post by: XXXotica on March 07, 2013, 07:24 am
your whole idea is flawed!
fuck banks and fuck currency!
the us government is printing money out of thin air just like the Nazis did during the end of ww2.
i have been putting my funds into commodities. that is the only real way to hedge against
a false falling global central bank currency destruction.
the: steel, silver, food and other commodity assets i own will have value while every other funny money falls to the floor!
u go ahead an put ur money in some useless bank but plz send me ur addy so i can send u a ( i told u so ) post card.  :P

+1
 Definitely have to agree with this.
Title: Re: SR Vendors: Start saving offshore!
Post by: modziw on March 07, 2013, 11:00 am
Hey TheGoodSon, thanks for posting some good shit.

Everyone reading this should appreciate a vendor looking out for his fellows.

Especially you Christy. Exactly what currency do you hold your commodity accounts in? Or are you actually hoarding food?

TheGoodSon is doing more for us than vendors who charge for the info do. Take it from me, I have PAID for the useless info.

My concern is the reporting of info by intermediaries who set up offshore businesses. I think you have to travel and do it yourself to be safe.

Also, TheGoodSon, what countries have not already bent over for the US regulators and IRS? I think there are none left.

Modzi
Title: Re: SR Vendors: Start saving offshore!
Post by: modziw on March 07, 2013, 11:02 am
Modz, move this to the Vendors only forum please.

Modzi
Title: Re: SR Vendors: Start saving offshore!
Post by: Alpha77 on March 07, 2013, 04:51 pm
I've been told having a Seychelles Holding Company and a Cyprus trading Company + Banking in Cyprus is the best direction to go if you want anonymity and tax evasion as well as the ease & cost of setting up this structure.
Title: Re: SR Vendors: Start saving offshore!
Post by: masterblaster on March 07, 2013, 05:06 pm
I've been told having a Seychelles Holding Company and a Cyprus trading Company + Banking in Cyprus is the best direction to go if you want anonymity and tax evasion as well as the ease & cost of setting up this structure.

Yeah no need to do research or take some guys word for it, just look at what apple facebook and google are doing and copy them.
Title: Re: SR Vendors: Start saving offshore!
Post by: TheGoodSon on March 07, 2013, 07:22 pm
Seychelles is a very good jurisdiction as they have no public registry. I would not bank in Cyprus however, the US is making headways into Europe with FATCA and it's a ticking clock until the majority of Europe is bending to the will of the IRS. Recently, a Swiss bank was forced to close down because they were fined US$58,000,000 for "helping Americans evade taxes". If it can happen there, it'll happen elsewhere in Europe.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-20907359
http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=6775606n

@masterblaster - I don't know what you mean by "copy Facebook and/or Google", they have very big money to pay very big lawyers. If you have their kind of money, I'd agree with you. My ideas in this thread are for the common man who cannot afford to blow $25k on a tax attorney.