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Discussion => Off topic => Topic started by: divinechemicals on April 10, 2012, 04:49 am

Title: Convincing People to Try Psychedelics and MDMA?
Post by: divinechemicals on April 10, 2012, 04:49 am
So basically I'm the type of guy that once I've tried something amazing, I feel the need to share it with everyone I know. I've been doing MDMA, mushrooms, and LSD for a little over a year now (and of course weed, but that goes back several years), and each one is just such a great thing that I want everyone I know to try it. The problem is, I often have trouble convincing just weed smokers or drinkers that these drugs are generally better, and even safer than alcohol. I'm having particular problems with my girlfriend's cousin. We keep trying to convince her to do MDMA, and each time she resists, even though she knows that the statistics and facts I show about the risks are correct.

So how do you go about helping someone change their mind? Every time I do change someone's mind and they try one of these drugs, they thank me profusely and continue to that drug occasionally. It's just getting them to that first time that can be so challenging. I even give first time users their drugs for free because I want to spread the love!
Title: Re: Convincing People to Try Psychedelics and MDMA?
Post by: cuba on April 10, 2012, 05:35 am
I'm not one to try and push someone to try anything. it's ultimately thier decision and you shouldnt be that influence. those who choose not to use drugs should be given the respect for thier choice. 
Title: Re: Convincing People to Try Psychedelics and MDMA?
Post by: ak2021 on April 10, 2012, 06:40 am
Well, it's all about information.

Most people have no idea what shrooms are about. There's the cultural delusion that shrooms and LSD will make you utterly retarded, when in reality they do the exact opposite. They allow you to see the world without filters. I'd show them the research that was done in John Hopkins Hospital that showed that a psilocybin trip improved personality measures in adults.

Here's some research:

Quote
J Psychoactive Drugs. 2011 Jul-Sep;43(3):188-98.
Voice of the psychonauts: coping, life purpose, and spirituality in psychedelic drug users.
Móró L, Simon K, Bárd I, Rácz J.
Source
Centre for Cognitive Neuroscience, University of Turku, Finland. leve@utu.fi
Abstract
Psychoactive drug use shows great diversity, but due to a disproportionate focus on problematic drug use, predominant nonproblematic drug use remains an understudied phenomenon. Historic and anecdotal evidence shows that natural sources of "psychedelic" drugs (e.g., mescaline and psilocybin) have been used in religious and spiritual settings for centuries, as well as for psychological self-enhancement purposes. Our study assessed a total of 667 psychedelic drug users, other drug users, and drug nonusers by online questionnaires. Coping, life purpose, and spirituality were measured with the Psychological Immune Competence Inventory, the Purpose in Life test, and the Intrinsic Spirituality Scale, respectively. Results indicate that the use of psychedelic drugs with a purpose to enhance self-knowledge is less associated with problems, and correlates positively with coping and spirituality. Albeit the meaning of "spirituality" may be ambiguous, it seems that a spiritually-inclined attitude in drug use may act as a protective factor against drug-related problems. The autognostic use of psychedelic drugs may be thus hypothesized as a "training situation" that promotes self-enhancement by rehearsing personal coping strategies and by gaining self-knowledge. However, to assess the actual efficiency and the speculated long-term benefits of these deliberately provoked exceptional experiences, further qualitative investigations are needed.


Quote
J Psychopharmacol. 2011 Nov;25(11):1453-61. Epub 2011 Sep 28.
Mystical experiences occasioned by the hallucinogen psilocybin lead to increases in the personality domain of openness.
MacLean KA, Johnson MW, Griffiths RR.
Source
Department of Psychiatry and Behavioral Sciences, Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine, Baltimore, MD, USA. katherine.a.maclean@gmail.com
Abstract
A large body of evidence, including longitudinal analyses of personality change, suggests that core personality traits are predominantly stable after age 30. To our knowledge, no study has demonstrated changes in personality in healthy adults after an experimentally manipulated discrete event. Intriguingly, double-blind controlled studies have shown that the classic hallucinogen psilocybin occasions personally and spiritually significant mystical experiences that predict long-term changes in behaviors, attitudes and values. In the present report we assessed the effect of psilocybin on changes in the five broad domains of personality - Neuroticism, Extroversion, Openness, Agreeableness, and Conscientiousness. Consistent with participant claims of hallucinogen-occasioned increases in aesthetic appreciation, imagination, and creativity, we found significant increases in Openness following a high-dose psilocybin session. In participants who had mystical experiences during their psilocybin session, Openness remained significantly higher than baseline more than 1 year after the session. The findings suggest a specific role for psilocybin and mystical-type experiences in adult personality change.
PMID: 21956378 [PubMed - in process]

Quote
J Psychopharmacol. 2008 Aug;22(6):621-32. Epub 2008 Jul 1.
Mystical-type experiences occasioned by psilocybin mediate the attribution of personal meaning and spiritual significance 14 months later.
Griffiths R, Richards W, Johnson M, McCann U, Jesse R.
Source
Department of Psychiatry and Behavioral Sciences and Department of Neuroscience, Johns Hopkins University, School of Medicine, Baltimore, MD, USA. rgriff@jhmi.edu
Abstract
Psilocybin has been used for centuries for religious purposes; however, little is known scientifically about its long-term effects. We previously reported the effects of a double-blind study evaluating the psychological effects of a high psilocybin dose. This report presents the 14-month follow-up and examines the relationship of the follow-up results to data obtained at screening and on drug session days. Participants were 36 hallucinogen-naïve adults reporting regular participation in religious/ spiritual activities. Oral psilocybin (30 mg/70 kg) was administered on one of two or three sessions, with methylphenidate (40 mg/70 kg) administered on the other session(s). During sessions, volunteers were encouraged to close their eyes and direct their attention inward. At the 14-month follow-up, 58% and 67%, respectively, of volunteers rated the psilocybin-occasioned experience as being among the five most personally meaningful and among the five most spiritually significant experiences of their lives; 64% indicated that the experience increased well-being or life satisfaction; 58% met criteria for having had a 'complete' mystical experience. Correlation and regression analyses indicated a central role of the mystical experience assessed on the session day in the high ratings of personal meaning and spiritual significance at follow-up. Of the measures of personality, affect, quality of life and spirituality assessed across the study, only a scale measuring mystical experience showed a difference from screening. When administered under supportive conditions, psilocybin occasioned experiences similar to spontaneously occurring mystical experiences that, at 14-month follow-up, were considered by volunteers to be among the most personally meaningful and spiritually significant of their lives.
PMID: 18593735 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] PMCID: PMC3050654

And to avoid having a bad trip:

Quote
Prediction of psilocybin response in healthy volunteers.
Studerus E, Gamma A, Kometer M, Vollenweider FX.
Source
Neuropsychopharmacology and Brain Imaging & Heffter Research Center, University Hospital of Psychiatry, Zurich, Switzerland.
Abstract
Responses to hallucinogenic drugs, such as psilocybin, are believed to be critically dependent on the user's personality, current mood state, drug pre-experiences, expectancies, and social and environmental variables. However, little is known about the order of importance of these variables and their effect sizes in comparison to drug dose. Hence, this study investigated the effects of 24 predictor variables, including age, sex, education, personality traits, drug pre-experience, mental state before drug intake, experimental setting, and drug dose on the acute response to psilocybin. The analysis was based on the pooled data of 23 controlled experimental studies involving 409 psilocybin administrations to 261 healthy volunteers. Multiple linear mixed effects models were fitted for each of 15 response variables. Although drug dose was clearly the most important predictor for all measured response variables, several non-pharmacological variables significantly contributed to the effects of psilocybin. Specifically, having a high score in the personality trait of Absorption, being in an emotionally excitable and active state immediately before drug intake, and having experienced few psychological problems in past weeks were most strongly associated with pleasant and mystical-type experiences, whereas high Emotional Excitability, low age, and an experimental setting involving positron emission tomography most strongly predicted unpleasant and/or anxious reactions to psilocybin. The results confirm that non-pharmacological variables play an important role in the effects of psilocybin.
PMID: 22363492

And for some mechanism related information:

Quote
The mPFC, PCC and thalamus are thought to act as 'connector hubs' that have a pivotal role in co-ordinating the flow of information through the brain2, and the researchers say that this accounts for the effects of hallucinogens, which induce a state of “unconstrained cognition”.

Hence; less ego -> more objective view of reality without cultural or ego-bias.

Here's some extraneous links that you can show them, if they're interested.

http://healthland.time.com/2011/06/16/magic-mushrooms-can-improve-psychological-health-long-term/
http://www.emaxhealth.com/1275/magic-mushrooms-ingredient-psilocybin-may-treat-depression
http://articles.latimes.com/2010/sep/07/science/la-sci-magic-mushrooms-20100907
http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/757387
http://psychedelic-information-theory.com/What-is-Psychedelic-Information-Theory
http://www.nature.com/news/psychedelic-chemical-subdues-brain-activity-1.9878


PS: I'd like to re-iterate that if people can't understand and come to the conclusions themselves they aren't ready for the trip just yet. It has A LOT to do with being open and not being obsessive. Many people cannot let go and just enjoy the ride. I'd suggest you know your friends very well before you give them drugs, because if they're not in the right mood or not properly guided, bad trips _can_ happen.

Hope this information helps, and best of luck. I honestly can't understand people that are completely against the idea of using psychedelic drugs. It is so narrow minded. "I don't want to take drugs!" says the person while having a beer in one hand, cigarettes in the other and uses caffeine to be functional every single day... What a reality.




Title: Re: Convincing People to Try Psychedelics and MDMA?
Post by: Appa on April 10, 2012, 07:34 am
You'll never convince an unwilling participant to try a drug.  In my opinion, "getting" someone to consume an intoxicant they aren't necessarily interested in taking is a recipe for disaster.  However, I kind of take it that you're not the type to be misleading people into these experiences, so I'm sure I can allay my concerns.

I have found myself in your position many times; you have this beautiful information that you want to share, that you KNOW will positively affect a certain loved-one's life, but they're naive to these sorts of chemicals.  The best way I've found to get people interested in psychedelics is to simply have them read experience reports written by other users (erowid.org is a good place to find them).  Many of these are glowingly positive (though I'm of the mind that we should read the negatives as well), and make the experience sound gorgeous and moving (which it often is).

It seems to me that it doesn't necessarily matter to us humans how safe an experience is.  We'll generally do stuff if it's fun or feels good enough, whether it is safe or not.  Similarly, we'll often avoid inherently safe experiences if we believe they will be frightening or otherwise unpleasant.  These friends of ours are victims of a cultural brainwashing of sorts, that has convinced them that unfamiliar drugs are either too dangerous or too unpleasant for their liking.  When we reassure them of the safety, they're thinking, "OK, so I know it's not dangerous, but I'm still scared."  This sort of thinking is difficult to overcome; they need an incentive.  If they can expect to have a good time and possibly be changed for the better, their interest will be piqued.  They'll start to do more research, and soon they'll be asking you when they can get started!

Since you mentioned the different chemicals, I'm going to put in my plug for MDMA as a first time experience for an "exotic drugs" virgin.  If they've only ever done caffeine, alcohol, adderall, or weed, I think MDMA would be the perfect introductory chemical.  The positiveness of it would really help put those lingering doubts to rest.  Since the experience is almost guaranteed to be a good time without being too "trippy," it could help a newbie limber up for a future mushroom or LSD experience.