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Discussion => Drug safety => Topic started by: tommygun on November 23, 2012, 08:19 pm

Title: Tramadol?
Post by: tommygun on November 23, 2012, 08:19 pm
Anyone ever used this to break away from other opiates?  Is tramadol even in the opiate family?
Title: Re: Tramadol?
Post by: fleetingglimpse on November 23, 2012, 08:31 pm
Technically, its not really an opiate i dont think.

Iv had it a few times, lowish doses. It does give you a 'high' but not like H or the like. Maybe at higher doses it might do.

There are probably better options out there man ;)

What you looking at?
Title: Re: Tramadol?
Post by: gestaltassault2 on November 23, 2012, 08:39 pm
Tramadol is a very weak μ-opioid receptor agonist, induces serotonin release, and inhibits the reuptake of norepinephrine. Tramadol is converted to O-desmethyltramadol, a significantly more potent μ-opioid agonist. The opioid agonistic effect of tramadol and its major metabolite(s) is almost exclusively mediated by such μ-opioid receptors. This further distinguishes tramadol from opioids in general (including morphine), which do not possess tramadol's degree of receptor subtype selectivity and which are much stronger opiate-receptor agonists. Similarly, the habituating properties of tramadol (such as they are) are arguably mainly due to μ-opioid agonism with contributions from serotonergic and noradrenergic effects.

Long-term use of high doses of Tramadol may be associated with physical dependence and a withdrawal syndrome. Tramadol causes typical opiate-like withdrawal symptoms as well as atypical withdrawal symptoms including seizures. The atypical withdrawal symptoms are probably related to tramadol's effect on serotonin and norepinephrine re-uptake. Symptoms may include those of SSRI discontinuation syndrome, such as anxiety, depression, anguish, severe mood swings, aggressiveness, brain "zaps", electric-shock-like sensations throughout the body, paresthesias, sweating, palpitations, restless legs syndrome, sneezing, insomnia, vivid dreams or nightmares, micropsia and/or macropsia, tremors, and headache among others. In most cases, tramadol withdrawal will set in 12–20 hours after the last dose, but this can vary. Tramadol withdrawal lasts longer than that of other opioids; seven days or more of acute withdrawal symptoms can occur as opposed to typically three or four days for other codeine analogues. It is recommended that patients physically dependent on pain killers take their medication regularly to prevent onset of withdrawal symptoms and this is particularly relevant to tramadol because of its SSRI and SNRI properties, and, when the time comes to discontinue their tramadol, to do so gradually over a period of time that will vary according to the individual patient and dose and length of time on the drug.

Some controversy regarding the abuse potential of tramadol exists. Grünenthal has promoted it as having a lower risk of opioid dependence than traditional opioids, claiming little evidence of such dependence in clinical trials (which is true; Grünenthal never claimed it to be non-addictive). They offer the theory that, since the M1 metabolite is the principal agonist at μ-opioid receptors, the delayed agonist activity reduces abuse liability. The norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor effects may also play a role in reducing dependence.
Rarely, dependence may occur after as little as three months of use at the maximum dose—generally depicted at 400 mg per day. However, both physicians and health authorities generally consider dependence liability relatively low. Thus, tramadol is classified as a Schedule 4 Prescription Only Medicine in Australia, and been rescheduled in Sweden rather than as a Schedule 8 Controlled Drug like opioids. Similarly, unlike opioid analgesics, tramadol is not currently scheduled as a controlled substance by the U.S. Drug Enforcement Administration. However, it is scheduled in certain states. Nevertheless, the prescribing information for Ultram warns that tramadol "may induce psychological and physical dependence of the morphine-type".

Because of the possibility of convulsions at high doses for some users, recreational use can be very dangerous. However, via agonism of μ opioid receptors, Tramadol can produce effects similar to those of other opioids (codeine and other weak opioids). Due to tramadol's much lower affinity for this receptor, these are not nearly as intense as with the opiates per se. Tramadol can cause a higher incidence of nausea, dizziness, loss of appetite compared with opiates, which could deter abuse. Tramadol can alleviate withdrawal symptoms from opiates, and it is much easier to control its usage than for street drugs. It may also have large effect on sleeping patterns and high doses may cause insomnia. (Especially for those on methadone, both for maintenance and recreation. Though there is no scientific proof tramadol lessens effects of opiates or is a mixed agonist-antagonist, some people get the impression it is, while someone else might benefit being prescribed both for pain and breakthrough pain.)
Title: Re: Tramadol?
Post by: wenis17 on November 23, 2012, 08:42 pm
Tramadols are considered a "non-narcotic" but apparently has become very popular lately for pain relief. I personally think it's good expecially coming off of some H.
Title: Re: Tramadol?
Post by: unkn0wn_ on November 23, 2012, 08:56 pm
I was on Tramadol for 2 weeks and it's not quite as warm & fuzzy as a perk but it definitely relaxing and a bit more energetic. You have a bit of the same detached and droopy look about you on it.

Its definitely as addictive as perks though.

I quite enjoyed it overall and would definitely do it again. But I'd probably opt for morphine given the option.
Title: Re: Tramadol?
Post by: wrappit on November 24, 2012, 01:09 am
To answer your question - yes it can be a big help although I wouldn't really recommend it. Both my friend and I had seizures as a result of taking too high a dose. If you stick to maximum 400mg per day you should be fine. However it's quite easy to become addicted to as makes you feel pretty happy so may just be best to quit CT or use other meds besides opiates (clonidine, lofexidine (depending on country), benzos, anti-emetics, loperamide (for the squits)...etc etc.

All depends what you are coming off as I would suggest different strength detoxes depending on your dose/opiate preference. In my opinion, subs are the best for detox off stronger opiates and can do so pretty easily. The withdrawal is the easy part, it's the staying off that's fuckin hard imo..! I got addicted to taking a lot of tramadol when quit stonger opiates and more than happy to help if needed. Dumb I know...Good luck  ;)
Title: Re: Tramadol?
Post by: JustWokeUP on November 24, 2012, 01:44 am
Same thing happened to me, took too much and probably (no one else was there at the time) had a seizure, definitely not worth it imo
Title: Re: Tramadol?
Post by: wrappit on November 24, 2012, 04:38 am
There is a little cross tolerance as both affecting similar areas, although tramadol seems to function as an anti depressant too. I don't really see the point in using tramadol (unless cost as you say) in between but in theory it should help. Although your tolerance will most likely not go down in between doses of hydro (in my case anyways). Codeine can help also and imo may be a better choice if available. In EU you can buy over the counter and just do a cold water extraction. Looks reasonably cheap on SR too...

Best advice I could ever give would be to not get into a daily habit (I say this whilst on oxy atm lol)...It's such a downward spiral (for everyone in the end) and ultimately you end up using just to keep the sickness at bay, which really sucks big time. Luckily a combo of subs and mighty strong will saved my ass and now only ever use rarely.

If gonna use tramadol, please seriously take on board advice on seizures! They say 400mg in trials as max but I reckon 5-600 would be ok without threat of seizure (depending on tolerance of course!). However may get brain zaps. It's a weird drug but helpful at times :) Same deal as hydros tho and the comedown off trams are pretty bleak too (depression plus less intense sickness). Try some oxy - get more bang for your buck imo and no apap liver damage OR don't, and take a break  ;D

Tramadol almost has this mdma type affect on me (with minimal rushing) and end up wanting more and more....I find it an upper/lifting type opiate experience (bit like hydros).

btw pod tea can be a real help in this type of situation!!! I've used it for detoxing before and was a massive help although hard to judge dosage as can vary quite wildly. There seems to be availability on SR but also available as decorative from certain flower shops (specially christmas time as an excuse). Not sure about which country but in some pods unprepared are fully legal to buy...just not when you crush and make tea etc. Defo worth looking into. Good luck and hope it helped a little!
Title: Re: Tramadol?
Post by: anex45 on November 24, 2012, 05:45 am
I keep a stash of Tramadol around for when I'm out of heroin....it really helps with withdrawals (especially RLS). There's a clearnet site that sells 100 50mg Tramadol pills for only $36 (and it's the Anadol brand, a very potent generic).