Silk Road forums
Discussion => Philosophy, Economics and Justice => Topic started by: PsilocybinReality on November 21, 2012, 05:20 pm
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Hey guys
I bloody forgot my username again, so have ended up having to make a new account - AGAIN. Eugh. I like my new name now, and won't forget it.
Anyway, I was wondering about this. DPR's rhetoric has a vibe to it that is strongly reminiscent of Rothbard and other anti-statist libertarians.The Wikipedia article quotes the following from SR administrators in response to DEA recognition of the site:
I'm sure this news will scare some off, but should we win the fight, a new era will be born. Even if we lose, the genie is out of the bottle and they are fighting a losing War already.
It's been obviously that there's a strong moral cause behind Silk Road; it's not just purely to peddle drugs but fighting back against the injustice of the global war on drugs. But DPR has specifically been associating himself with the 'right-libertarian' movement, what with his support for Ron Paul's farewell address and his links to For A New Liberty by Rothbard on the Mises Institute and the New Libertarian Manifesto on anarchism.net.
I am wondering, with the site pushing this ideology, how is it going to impact libertarianism in the mainstream political dialogue? Could the general public be put off by a site such as SR endorsing this message, or could SR taking the moral high ground win it support from the public?
Do you think this moral and ideological stand by DPR is a good thing?
Also, there are going to be many who disagree with DPR. There will be left-leaning libertarians, anarcho-syndicalists, mutualists, and statists of varying positions who will oppose DPR's ideology. Do you think this could fragment and divide the movement we're creating?
I've often heard SR described as an agorist marketplace, which usually refers to voluntaryists/Anarcho-Capitalists but can refer to some forms of left libertarianism.
Sorry if that was a bit incoherent, I'm really tired, but you get the point. For most of my life I have been a staunch libertarian (minarchist verging on anarchist) just like DPR, and here in Europe, where people think that government through the welfare state is the best way to advance humanity and spread compassion, it is such a minority viewpoint. However, I am currently looking into the anti-capitalist side of anarchism to reevaluate my position and to consider if my worldview has any serious flaws.
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In the US, the left tends to see us as 'sick' and wants to 'help' us, politcally this usually translates into giving us a shot at 'treatment' and then when we don't 'get well' send us off to prison. The right just figures we're criminal, and wants us to go straight to jail, without all the silly stuff beforehand. Libertarian view--more or less (see Ron Paul's writing) is that it's not the government's business to say what we can put in our bodies. Seems that most thoughtful drug users are libertarians, with exceptions, of course. Some are just left wing. Rarely on the right.
DPR seems libertarian. Check out the movie and book club...we're right now reading "Defending the Undefendable," seems pretty much a libertarian text...to me.
So I don't know, I don't read *everything* every day, so I"m not sure, but seems like DPR's a good soldier in the cause...and if you look at how alcohol prohibition finally ended in the US, this is how you do it....make it a done deal, until they're embarassed into legalizing the shit...
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DPR has always said he is an Agorist. Who cares what anyone else thinks about Agorism or Libertarianism. Oh no these people who want to put me in prison don't want to be part of the SR movement! Now they think even less of my ideology ! Fuck them with a ten foot dick.
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ten foot dick.
Yummy.
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Hi PsilocybinReality, good questions. I agree that DPR is a right libertarian of some fashion. Agorist, anarcho-capitalist, etc. As an anarcho-communist/syndicalist I do not see this as something that would divide the community. DPR's best words in my opinion are that no matter our intentions on this site, we are engaging in revolutionary actions. I also see this as not just one form of anti-state revolution, but as encompassing multiple forms of anti-state tendencies. Right off the bat, some will read this and think, "you are engaging in capitalism by buying and selling stuff!". I know, but that is due soley to the system and world I live in. So relax. With that being said I think all forms of anti-statism will thrive because of SR. We all have a tremendous amount in common, most noticeably our common enemy, the over bearing border line fascist state governments of the world. If you have any questions about anti-capitalist anarchism, feel free to message me.
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In the US, the left tends to see us as 'sick' and wants to 'help' us, politcally this usually translates into giving us a shot at 'treatment' and then when we don't 'get well' send us off to prison. The right just figures we're criminal, and wants us to go straight to jail, without all the silly stuff beforehand. Libertarian view--more or less (see Ron Paul's writing) is that it's not the government's business to say what we can put in our bodies. Seems that most thoughtful drug users are libertarians, with exceptions, of course. Some are just left wing. Rarely on the right.
DPR seems libertarian. Check out the movie and book club...we're right now reading "Defending the Undefendable," seems pretty much a libertarian text...to me.
So I don't know, I don't read *everything* every day, so I"m not sure, but seems like DPR's a good soldier in the cause...and if you look at how alcohol prohibition finally ended in the US, this is how you do it....make it a done deal, until they're embarassed into legalizing the shit...
Thanks for your post phubaiblues, I totally agree with everything you say. It is interesting that you should portray the typical 'leftist' position as one that tries to demonise and marginalise us as 'sick' individuals who need an empowering government to take care of us. I have never heard that spin on it before, it really turns the mainstream dialogue on its head, but it makes perfect sense when you see the emphasis from the centre left voices that say that drugs should be decriminalised and users be treated but not charged - like in Portugal.
I guess you are right about DPR, he's an honourable guy and like you say, this fight will be won not simply through the ballot but by fighting back through agorist methods until these substances become de facto legal due to their brazen and widespread sale and availability on this site, or the government is simply forced to legalize out of embarrassment. I guess a lot of my question was to do with how the libertarian left sees this, as it is likely to put them off if they see there is a propertarian ideology driving the site, but if they truly believe in the cause of fighting injustice then they should probably welcome us all the same.
Hi PsilocybinReality, good questions. I agree that DPR is a right libertarian of some fashion. Agorist, anarcho-capitalist, etc. As an anarcho-communist/syndicalist I do not see this as something that would divide the community. DPR's best words in my opinion are that no matter our intentions on this site, we are engaging in revolutionary actions. I also see this as not just one form of anti-state revolution, but as encompassing multiple forms of anti-state tendencies. Right off the bat, some will read this and think, "you are engaging in capitalism by buying and selling stuff!". I know, but that is due soley to the system and world I live in. So relax. With that being said I think all forms of anti-statism will thrive because of SR. We all have a tremendous amount in common, most noticeably our common enemy, the over bearing border line fascist state governments of the world. If you have any questions about anti-capitalist anarchism, feel free to message me.
Thank you for your post redfunguy.
It is interesting and a breath of fresh air that you should not let your differences with DPR stop you from embracing the movement. Many anarcho-communists on the internet, for example YouTube, will say that the defense of property by anarcho-capitalists and right-libertarian agorists generally means that they cannot be viewed as defenders of anarchism and should be viewed as an enemy and part of the problem, for e.g. mr1001nights. I am glad you support DPR's general message, and that you think this will not fracture our movement - I hope you are right. It is also somewhat profound that you should say we have a lot in coming, and it is definitely something we embrace.
I would be most interested in using your help to become educated on anti-capitalist anarchism, and I thank you for your offer. I will send you a private message later with a few queries of mine, and we'll see if you can help or make me really question my beliefs. I am not trying reject my current ideology, nor am I trying to reaffirm it, I have just come to the realisation that I should never stop questioning and should listen to all points of view and arguments.
Peace and love guys
Take care :)