Silk Road forums

Discussion => Drug safety => Topic started by: grdr on July 02, 2013, 08:22 pm

Title: Silkroad heroin victims
Post by: grdr on July 02, 2013, 08:22 pm
So is there anyone you know who died of overdose or became addicted to heroin from silkroad ? Just interesting that heroin is so popular here is everyone able to do it recreationally or are functioning addicts?
Title: Re: Silkroad heroin victims
Post by: heavyreader on July 02, 2013, 08:37 pm
i don't know that i would necessarily call them a "victim" of heroin or silkroad.. i would call them victims of the war on drugs, heroin itself is not evil or even especially dangerous if proper harm reduction techniques are used. 

and you might be surprised how many people chip with no problem and how many people are high-functioning users who are opiate-dependent.  addiction is not a black and white thing, like, you're addicted today, now you aren't.  there's a lot of factors, from physical dependency to psychological.  in fact i know quite a few heroin users who definitely are no longer psychologically addicted to the high and feeling of heroin (in fact it repulses them to an extent), but are completely physically-dependent on it. 

let's put it this way: i'm sure you know a lot of people who take an OC every once in a while to party, or maybe some dilaudid or a big handful of hydrocodones.. you don't assume that person will automatically become addicted to it do you??  heroin is no different, it just enjoys a horrible stigma that harkens all the way back to World War II and the fear of the asian invasion.. 
Title: Re: Silkroad heroin victims
Post by: Ben on July 03, 2013, 01:22 am
I doubt there would be any really.

SR is mainly mailorder drugs, which take some time to arrive, even if the order is domestic.

Heroin addicts as you typically see them have a fulltime job at securing money to pay a street dealer which offers the product instantly as long as you pay cash.

I seriously doubt people have become heroin addicts due to SR, but i presume some opiate lovers may have found a good retail outlet here.
Title: Re: Silkroad heroin victims
Post by: zvp1014 on July 03, 2013, 01:33 am
I doubt there would be any really.

SR is mainly mailorder drugs, which take some time to arrive, even if the order is domestic.

Heroin addicts as you typically see them have a fulltime job at securing money to pay a street dealer which offers the product instantly as long as you pay cash.

I seriously doubt people have become heroin addicts due to SR, but i presume some opiate lovers may have found a good retail outlet here.

This exactly. If I ever were to try heroin, limiting my supply would be easy- acquiring Bitcoin is a PITA, encrypting everything is a PITA, waiting for products to arrive is a PITA... it's far easier to limit yourself here.
Title: Re: Silkroad heroin victims
Post by: Red Rover on July 03, 2013, 03:22 am
As zvp1014 says, SR is actually safer -- in terms of addiction potential -- than buying off the street.  A local dealer can meet you in a few hours.  It takes days to get something in the mail, and that's if you have BTC already.  If you don't, that's another week of waiting.  It's just not conducive to addiction.  When you're really an addict, you need your shit EVERY SINGLE DAY.  You don't have the luxury of waiting by the mailbox for days.
Title: Re: Silkroad heroin victims
Post by: heavyreader on July 03, 2013, 03:42 am
another thing is that suppliers (at least in my area) sometimes pay their middlemen/worker bees in dope instead of cash, which creates a really vicious cycle and is the way that most folks i know really lost themselves.. 

as you've all said, SR and btc and all of that does create a good barrier to addiction.  i am an every day all day concentrate smoker and frequent opiate user for about 3 weeks out of the month, and then i get to take a nice little T-break for a good solid week/week and a half while i get my new shit in.  at first this drove me a little crazy, but now i actually look forward to both going through that little cleansing and self-care period and the double whopper of a high that follows when i get my goods..  it has helped moderate my tolerance quite a bit and made me a much more responsible drug user in the time i've been here.  it also gives me access to much cleaner and higher quality drugs, from sources who are happy to talk with me about harm reduction and instant access to a forum full of knowledgeable and friendly people, and on a consistent basis.  all in all, SR rules, as always...
Title: Re: Silkroad heroin victims
Post by: dirtybiscuitzz718 on July 03, 2013, 06:08 am
i don't know that i would necessarily call them a "victim" of heroin or silkroad.. i would call them victims of the war on drugs, heroin itself is not evil or even especially dangerous if proper harm reduction techniques are used. 

and you might be surprised how many people chip with no problem and how many people are high-functioning users who are opiate-dependent.  addiction is not a black and white thing, like, you're addicted today, now you aren't.  there's a lot of factors, from physical dependency to psychological.  in fact i know quite a few heroin users who definitely are no longer psychologically addicted to the high and feeling of heroin (in fact it repulses them to an extent), but are completely physically-dependent on it. 

let's put it this way: i'm sure you know a lot of people who take an OC every once in a while to party, or maybe some dilaudid or a big handful of hydrocodones.. you don't assume that person will automatically become addicted to it do you??  heroin is no different, it just enjoys a horrible stigma that harkens all the way back to World War II and the fear of the asian invasion.. 

+1
Title: Re: Silkroad heroin victims
Post by: Lorimer on July 03, 2013, 06:47 am
++1 to heavyreader for both posts.

And to the OP:

You'd be surprised at how many functioning opiate addicts there are out there & at how many people use opiates occasionally, or don't like them enough to work on developing a full time habit. Why ask about heroin in particular? Heroin is no more addictive than other strong opiates & there are def more dangerous opiates on the market.

There is at least one story of someone ODing on "heroin" from SR: 

(clarinet)  reddit.com/r/SilkRoad/comments/1h2bja/supertrips_is_selling_fentanyl_as_heroin_for_over/

or

dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?topic=177203


but they didn't die & there was no actual H in the stuff they shot.

I think it would be difficult to get addicted using SR alone. A good dealer will show up within hours but it takes time to buy BTC & place an order & wait for the mail. Plus it's the nature of addiction to use what you have & so stockpiling is difficult - even if you buy enough to get you thru a month you're bound to finish it faster than expected.

There's a regular thread dedicated to SR heroin, tho. Maybe asking or looking there might get you a different set of answers. :)
Title: Re: Silkroad heroin victims
Post by: DMtryptamine285 on July 03, 2013, 11:33 pm
The truth about heroin is that its not really any more addictive than any other strong opiates, nor is it the strongest or most dangerous (the fentanyl analogs take the cake there), in fact there are stronger, more euphoric and thus more addictive opiates legally available from research chemical suppliers or your friendly neighborhood doctor, hell now there spraying kratom with O-Desmethyltramadol which can create an addiction no other opiate will substitute for due to its unique pharmacology (its like tramadol on steroids). The addiction potential of heroin also depends greatly on the ROA (Route of administration). Insufflation wont develop into a physical addiction as fast as injection, oral use of heroin is pretty much a waste of material (might as well just get codeine).

Heroin is just morphine with two acetyl groups added to it, making it diacetylmorphine. In fact in animal studies, rats cannot even differentiate between the two and in earlier human studies on addicts, most addicts couldn't tell the difference between equipotent doses. Heroin is just another opiate, nothing more and nothing less. It is a myth that one time use makes one physically addicted, just like with any other drug it takes doing it all the time and going on long binges to become an addict, you can get addicted to alcohol by using it everyday for that matter. Withdrawals from gabaergic drugs like booze are much worse than opiate withdrawals in that they can actually kill you via delerium tremens. This is coming from someone who has only used heroin once btw, two years ago, and I only use other opiates very rarely. I just understand the pharmacology of them and the mechanisms by which addiction develops.

Heroin was used medically in the united states at one point in time and the only reason it was taken off the market was because it became stigmatized due to being the popular opiate to abuse of the time (just like oxy is likely to be soon), not that it was more dangerous than morphine. Not every heroin user is a heroin addict. It is in fact known that cigarettes are the most addictive drug because out of all the people that try it, the highest percentage goes on to become addicts.

Title: Re: Silkroad heroin victims
Post by: Ben on July 04, 2013, 01:02 am
Heroin as such is not much more dangerous compared to morphine indeed. Both are very addictive however, as are virtually all opiates and opoids. including prescription ones.

As for the relative addictiveness of cigarettes i'm not sure the comparison is all that fair. If you enjoyed smoking some cigarettes from a friend yesterday, it is very easy to obtain a pack today - just go to the supermarket. The step to obtain a dose of heroin is far more difficult sine it would involve working with street dealers, or shipping delays when ordering online.

Alcohol is another drug that is easily available and sometimes addictive, yet far fewer people get as addicted to alcohol as people do to smoking cigarettes.

I suppose its also due to the pharmakinetics of the substances though: If deprived from smoking from a few hours i get really pissed, with alcohol it takes a day, and with benzo's it can take quite a bit longer. Luckily i've never had a heroin habit, but i suppose the withdrawal is as quick as that from tobacco, but much more intense, perhaps comparable to alcohol cessation after chronic use.

The lack/lag of availability on SR and similar systems is probably beneficial though: ordering opiates is not a problem, but ordering enough to sustain a habit from first use is uncommon. I'm sure people are ordering vast amounts, but those that just want to try it order a single dose and will have to wait for the next dose to arrive long enough to reconsider to some degree.
Title: Re: Silkroad heroin victims
Post by: heavyreader on July 04, 2013, 04:00 am
The truth about heroin is that its not really any more addictive than any other strong opiates, nor is it the strongest or most dangerous (the fentanyl analogs take the cake there), in fact there are stronger, more euphoric and thus more addictive opiates legally available from research chemical suppliers or your friendly neighborhood doctor, hell now there spraying kratom with O-Desmethyltramadol which can create an addiction no other opiate will substitute for due to its unique pharmacology (its like tramadol on steroids). The addiction potential of heroin also depends greatly on the ROA (Route of administration). Insufflation wont develop into a physical addiction as fast as injection, oral use of heroin is pretty much a waste of material (might as well just get codeine).

Heroin is just morphine with two acetyl groups added to it, making it diacetylmorphine. In fact in animal studies, rats cannot even differentiate between the two and in earlier human studies on addicts, most addicts couldn't tell the difference between equipotent doses. Heroin is just another opiate, nothing more and nothing less. It is a myth that one time use makes one physically addicted, just like with any other drug it takes doing it all the time and going on long binges to become an addict, you can get addicted to alcohol by using it everyday for that matter. Withdrawals from gabaergic drugs like booze are much worse than opiate withdrawals in that they can actually kill you via delerium tremens. This is coming from someone who has only used heroin once btw, two years ago, and I only use other opiates very rarely. I just understand the pharmacology of them and the mechanisms by which addiction develops.

Heroin was used medically in the united states at one point in time and the only reason it was taken off the market was because it became stigmatized due to being the popular opiate to abuse of the time (just like oxy is likely to be soon), not that it was more dangerous than morphine. Not every heroin user is a heroin addict. It is in fact known that cigarettes are the most addictive drug because out of all the people that try it, the highest percentage goes on to become addicts.



+1

alcohol withdrawals are the only ones that can actually kill you directly, you are completely right, and it's a pretty fucking horrifying thing to watch..  it really is a completely different kind of monster when compared to opiate and benzo w/ds.. 

and it is much easier to become alcohol-dependent then it is to become opiate-dependent, not just because of availability.. 
Title: Re: Silkroad heroin victims
Post by: LSDLucidity on July 04, 2013, 08:46 am
I hate it when there's reference to people as 'victims' when it comes to drugs. They aren't victims, they did this to themselves. It's not the drugs fault, its their own fault for abusing the drug. At the same time, the education system regarding drugs is so ridiculous that it's no wonder people develop such horrible addictions. They simply aren't informed.

I feel the main reasons that people feel other people are victimized by drugs is due to prohibition, propaganda, the war on drugs and self-righteous politics. Think about it! (Sorry for going off topic but it stood out to me)

Title: Re: Silkroad heroin victims
Post by: zxydwx3 on July 04, 2013, 09:24 am
I don't and never have used heroin, but I've been on oxycodone for many years. I get my pills legitimately from a doctor, and am extremely cautious to only use my rx a few days faster than the 3 months it's supposed to last. Not sure if my doctor notices or not, I just make an appointment every 10 weeks or so and tell the doc I need 3 months worth of pills.

I do dabble in other hard drugs in a recreational way, and I find that SR is the BEST way to keep me from getting carried away. I literally have no fucking idea where to get the stuff IRL, other than a several hour drive to the city to wander around the hood, which isn't happening any time soon. It's a godsend to be able to mess around with very addictive substances without having to fight the urge to call the dealer back, or scrounge for cash, or whatever else. I could jones as much as I want for another hit, but even if I have some BTC on hand, I have to order and wait multiple days to score. It's a huge benefit to me, to be honest.
Title: Re: Silkroad heroin victims
Post by: Ben on July 05, 2013, 01:12 am
If you are prescribed opiates i presume you need them for some condition. In such cases its tempting to make pain worse than it actually is to get larger doses, which sometimes works.

As far as people being 'victims' of drugs goes: in some cases they might be, for example when prescribed a drug for some time, get addicted to it, and then have the prescription cancelled.

Many people get addicted by other means though, and education would certainly make a difference there. In the dutch education system there is relatively balanced information on drugs, listing both the benefits and risks of various drugs - contrary to the american system that basically teaches that any illegal substance in any amount will kill you where you stand. As that american premise is quite easily disproved it has little impact in the real world, where real evidence actually might.
Title: Re: Silkroad heroin victims
Post by: heavyreader on July 05, 2013, 01:36 am
If you are prescribed opiates i presume you need them for some condition. In such cases its tempting to make pain worse than it actually is to get larger doses, which sometimes works.

As far as people being 'victims' of drugs goes: in some cases they might be, for example when prescribed a drug for some time, get addicted to it, and then have the prescription cancelled.

Many people get addicted by other means though, and education would certainly make a difference there. In the dutch education system there is relatively balanced information on drugs, listing both the benefits and risks of various drugs - contrary to the american system that basically teaches that any illegal substance in any amount will kill you where you stand. As that american premise is quite easily disproved it has little impact in the real world, where real evidence actually might.

wow thats really interesting..  so they seriously teach harm reduction in schools??  and its honest??  its sad how mindblowing of a concept that is to me..