Silk Road forums

Discussion => Silk Road discussion => Topic started by: Hell_On_Heels on September 02, 2013, 10:15 pm

Title: Vendor Feedback Issue
Post by: Hell_On_Heels on September 02, 2013, 10:15 pm
One thing that recently was brought up on the r/SilkRoad sub of Reddit is the new feedback system and Vendor's manipulation of the system.  Now that feedback scores are all weighted I don't see why this policy of blackmailing customers with blacklist by leaving anything short of a 5/5 is allowed to continue. I would like to see the SR staff start/enforce a policy protecting buyers so that we can leave honest feedback. 

Personally, I will be leaving a 4/5 for most transactions. A 5/5 is now, IMO, reserved for those vendors who go above and beyond. Such as shipping a package express when I message them and ask. Sending "gifts" with my order.  A vendor sending a notice telling me that my package would arrive that day.

If SR staff doesn't feel the need to intervene, then I am asking all buyers to stick to your guns when ordering. If you felt it was only a 4/5 transaction then thats what you leave. I recently saw a post on Reddit where a person was asking about feedback. His situation was this; he ordered once from a vendor a came up about 4 grams short on an ounce. He messaged the vendor and the vendor said that he would include the missing in the next order which was already placed. The first package, btw, was also very sloppy in it's packaging/stealth. When the second package arrived the OP said that he could actually smell the chemicals as he opened the door to his mailbox. Not only was this one lacking the promised 4 grams missing from the previous order but it was short itself 1/2 gram on the current order.

The very next post was from a vendor saying leave a 5/5 and never do business with him again. This DEFEATS the whole purpose of the feedback system.  The next person ordering from him would see a 5/5 "Outstanding" and order from him based on that and others.

Personally, I would have left a 1/5 and sprayed him on every forum I could have. Not for the purpose of "revenge" per se, but to protect other buyers.  He is not only shorting his customers but jeopardizing his clients freedom.

5/5 my ass.

There has been a lot of back and forth concerning the new feedback system.  As it seems it is here to stay, I would hope that DPR and his staff would further legitimize this site by protecting buyers from feedback blackmail and vendor manipulation.

I do want to say that while I have only been here a while, I am impressed with the DPR's and his staff's constant attention to improvement and his willingness to keep us (the consumers and vendors) updated on the current status and changes of the site.
Title: Re: Vendor Feedback Issue
Post by: abercrombiekidjf on September 02, 2013, 10:51 pm
well said man and totally agree that is almost a standard comment on vendors page and while a lot of them do anything it takes to earn that 5/5 , there are the ones that really dont care at all and present those sorts of issues to the buyers like the vendor described above it sucks, but hopefully there will be some type of change or something when enough people bring it to light and SR staff will come up with some new or a fix to accommodate the feedback issues
Title: Re: Vendor Feedback Issue
Post by: Hell_On_Heels on September 03, 2013, 03:16 am
I've noticed that I've received one up vote and one down vote. I would assume that the down vote is from a vendor. Probably one with a policy somewhat similar to what I ranted against.

Perhaps a vendor with a standing/similar policy would like to defend it?
Title: Re: Vendor Feedback Issue
Post by: Dingo Ate My Drugs on September 03, 2013, 07:38 am
One thing that recently was brought up on the r/SilkRoad sub of Reddit is the new feedback system and Vendor's manipulation of the system.  Now that feedback scores are all weighted I don't see why this policy of blackmailing customers with blacklist by leaving anything short of a 5/5 is allowed to continue. I would like to see the SR staff start/enforce a policy protecting buyers so that we can leave honest feedback. 

Personally, I will be leaving a 4/5 for most transactions. A 5/5 is now, IMO, reserved for those vendors who go above and beyond. Such as shipping a package express when I message them and ask. Sending "gifts" with my order.  A vendor sending a notice telling me that my package would arrive that day.

If SR staff doesn't feel the need to intervene, then I am asking all buyers to stick to your guns when ordering. If you felt it was only a 4/5 transaction then thats what you leave. I recently saw a post on Reddit where a person was asking about feedback. His situation was this; he ordered once from a vendor a came up about 4 grams short on an ounce. He messaged the vendor and the vendor said that he would include the missing in the next order which was already placed. The first package, btw, was also very sloppy in it's packaging/stealth. When the second package arrived the OP said that he could actually smell the chemicals as he opened the door to his mailbox. Not only was this one lacking the promised 4 grams missing from the previous order but it was short itself 1/2 gram on the current order.

The very next post was from a vendor saying leave a 5/5 and never do business with him again. This DEFEATS the whole purpose of the feedback system.  The next person ordering from him would see a 5/5 "Outstanding" and order from him based on that and others.

Personally, I would have left a 1/5 and sprayed him on every forum I could have. Not for the purpose of "revenge" per se, but to protect other buyers.  He is not only shorting his customers but jeopardizing his clients freedom.

5/5 my ass.

There has been a lot of back and forth concerning the new feedback system.  As it seems it is here to stay, I would hope that DPR and his staff would further legitimize this site by protecting buyers from feedback blackmail and vendor manipulation.

I do want to say that while I have only been here a while, I am impressed with the DPR's and his staff's constant attention to improvement and his willingness to keep us (the consumers and vendors) updated on the current status and changes of the site.
Well I agree that people should not be made to think they have to leave 5/5, but often buyers give us low ratings for no reason.
But often we get low feedback for no good reason. I personally go to a lot of effort to make everyone happy. All my orders weigh over. I post within 24 hours of the order being placed and I package everything well. I describe my products accurately for what they are. Not "best weed you will ever have." Just something like "MDMA 1gm" and a brief description about how it is an uncut crystal and of high quality. Or "HQ Bush Sativa Weed." With a brief description of where it was grown and the basic details of the strain.

I have had a 2/5 because "the stealth was annoying."
The whole point of packaging it well is so it doesn't get intercepted and arrives.

A 4/5 because "it didn't arrive in time."
They ordered 3pm on a Thursday and wanted their order by Friday so they could use it by the weekend. They never communicated to me they needed it by the weekend. We can't speed up the postal service anyway.

Also I've had a 3/5 because "It is good but hash is usually not powder."
Well my hash is powder and the description and the picture clearly show this.

I've also had other low feedback ratings for no reason.

I don't think it's fair to leave anything less than a 5/5 if:
The product is the quality as described in the product description
The packaging was good
The product arrived in decent time, as described on the vendors page
Communication is good.

Remember, we cannot speed up the postal system. Once it is posted, we cannot control it.
Also remember we are busy with other things in life. Jobs, family, etc.
We can't always respond to messages within the hour. I think checking messages twice a day is sufficient.
I usually check my messages 4+ times a day if I can.
Title: Re: Vendor Feedback Issue
Post by: abercrombiekidjf on September 03, 2013, 06:47 pm
i see both points of view, but now with the new feedback system sellers need to look at their practices too and realize what each ratings stands for, just because an order got thru doesnt mean it should be a 5/5 , i have orders came in with the worst steealth i have ever seen, yeah it got thru but fuck if i ever order from those vendors again as well as i have some vendors i couldnt give a high enough ratings for some which i think deserve a 6/5 or even a 7/5....but i do agree based off the rating descriptions and numbers most vendors will not be getting 5/5s unless they start blacklisting customers , im sure we are going to see alot more 4/5s alot of them and some 3/5s .... i wish they could throw in like the raiting up to 10/10 or in .5 increments than vendors could get a 4.5/5 if everything wasnt perfect as well as it wouldnt look as low to the vendors as a 4 or a 3, idk this new feedback system is really messed up and its got alot of issues and problems that need to be fixed , but i give fair ratings each and everytime for the whole transaction from comms to completion so if i feel a vendor deserves a 4 or lower i atleast contact them first letting them no my concerns and issues and the following response back from them can determine alot if i change my rating or leave it a 3 or 4, but this is going to be a mess for the next few months, and with all the scamming going on recently i dont think i can trust anyones feedback pages anyway anymore
Title: Re: Vendor Feedback Issue
Post by: Hell_On_Heels on September 03, 2013, 07:09 pm
I agree with you on the vending side of the issue.  Unfourtnetly, I am not a vendor so I don't expierence these problems. I still don't see why I should be forced into a 5/5 because so other idiot left a lame ass reason for their feedback. I do have to say though, through my purchases I have seen MANY a feedback where the vendor was given a poor score due to product condition just to look at the listing and see that the product was described just like it arrived.

Maybe a review option for feedback? That would put more work on the admin side of things though so I doubt that would fly.

Also, I too have noticed ALOT more accusations of selective scamming by top vendors in the last month. Is it because certain top vendors are known to be selective scamming and other vendors see they're getting away with it?
Title: Re: Vendor Feedback Issue
Post by: tree on September 03, 2013, 08:23 pm
I agree with Dingo Ate My Drugs, if you get what you paid for you should leave a 5/5. If the postal service is slow then it's not the sellers fault.. You should only leave less than 5 if the package looks really suspicious, or if the packaging is really sloppy, like people putting a bottle of pills in a normal letter. You shouldn't leave a 4 just because it didn't take you 20 minutes to find your drugs your because your address was handwritten (handwritten address actually blend in well with other packages).

But well, if you get less than you paid for and the seller doesn't resolve this or you got a shitty quality that didn't fit the description then you can leave less. Or if it doesn't arrive, then leave a 4 if the seller resolved it well and less if you think you got scammed.

Leaving a 4 if everything went well but the seller didn't give you free samples isn't very nice. Just put minor complaints in the review.
Title: Re: Vendor Feedback Issue
Post by: Hell_On_Heels on September 03, 2013, 10:37 pm
Now that weighted feedback is here I don't see any reason to leave a 5/5 for a transactions that wasn't above and beyond. Otherwise, we cheapen the 5/5. With the new system in place for a few months and everybody adopts this attitude towards the feedback system, I see a 4.2+ and I'll think that this is an awesome vendor. As it stands, I am unable to differentiate between the vendors who just ship what is ordered and those who go above any beyond.

That is the whole point of a free market is so that consumers can choose the best supplier. How do I know the best supplier if they are allowed to blackmail the consumers into leaving false feedback.

I'm still unsure and giving it thought about the consumer giving bullshit feedback. All I can say is that brick & mortar businesses deal with this everyday and have for many years.  The overwhelming positive feedback should weigh out the single negative.

I also read something in another post that mentions buyer's with higher stats of purchase and money spent is actually weighted more than new accounts?




Title: Re: Vendor Feedback Issue
Post by: abercrombiekidjf on September 03, 2013, 11:24 pm
Now that weighted feedback is here I don't see any reason to leave a 5/5 for a transactions that wasn't above and beyond. Otherwise, we cheapen the 5/5. With the new system in place for a few months and everybody adopts this attitude towards the feedback system, I see a 4.2+ and I'll think that this is an awesome vendor. As it stands, I am unable to differentiate between the vendors who just ship what is ordered and those who go above any beyond.

That is the whole point of a free market is so that consumers can choose the best supplier. How do I know the best supplier if they are allowed to blackmail the consumers into leaving false feedback.

I'm still unsure and giving it thought about the consumer giving bullshit feedback. All I can say is that brick & mortar businesses deal with this everyday and have for many years.  The overwhelming positive feedback should weigh out the single negative.

I also read something in another post that mentions buyer's with higher stats of purchase and money spent is actually weighted more than new accounts?

yeah i def. agree with the new system a 4 seems like the standard now and a 5 would be for supreme vendors i actually agree 100% cause there are many times i try to figure out if a vendor is worth my time and i actually have to read all the reviews cause one dude will say its amazing everything outstanding blah blah blah and gives a 5/5 than another user does the same but says stealth wasnt the greatest and product was smashed...same vendor, same product, and both customer finalized the same day, so i do see the issues you bring to the table and i wish they would do something about that because the issues are becoming worse and worse each day i log on and read the forums its ashame, and yeah dude i have seen a crazy amount of scamming going on and i dk if it has to do with the new feedback shit or what but its really bad right now and some awesome vendors have gone rogue and its almost like everyday this week i login and someone else has scammed travelers for tens if not hundreds of thousands of dollars its ashame but i guess we are kind of screwed with the game we are all in, i wish there was some way to prevent the scamming all together and better methods to go into place to prevent it from both sides......my biggest concern and i read this many times but vendors can sell their accounts...thats a HUGE problem so a vendor who might be in the top 3% can sell his account to some random dude and all of those people who use that vendor dont think of any change than all of a sudden one of the most trusted vendors now appears rouge and scammer and it sucks cause its happening daily and i wish they wouldnt allowed vendors do to that, its unfair and now makes the rating system pointless
Title: Re: Vendor Feedback Issue
Post by: jesse on September 05, 2013, 10:49 am
I've noticed that I've received one up vote and one down vote. I would assume that the down vote is from a vendor. Probably one with a policy somewhat similar to what I ranted against.

Perhaps a vendor with a standing/similar policy would like to defend it?
How sad it is that the ones you have so much against, the vendors, you need so much for your habit.
If you feel that they do you so wrong why not go and buy from your streetdealer?
People with the attitude you have will be banned from buying soon anyway.
Who need an arrogant buyer how say the vendor have to go above and beyond?
What a good vendor has to do is make sure he does all to get it in the buyers mailbox, make sure he put in the product he advertize and make it stealthy enough to make it safe to have send to your home.
You have to be so happy and thankful you get what you want or need to your home, ordered from your lazy chair, sit back and wait till it falls in your mailbox.
Pretty relaxed I think.
Instead of being thankful you keep thinking how to make it ok to give as less as possible.
Only when they serve !!!??? what? yes serve you as YOU please you are willing to give 5/5
Trust me, reading your posts no vendor even thinks of selling to you.
You already said you had multiple accounts for as one is banned....you know you are in ''trouble'' keeping this up.
I would not sell you anything even if you were the last buyer on SR
 
Title: Re: Vendor Feedback Issue
Post by: Dingo Ate My Drugs on September 05, 2013, 11:35 am
I've noticed that I've received one up vote and one down vote. I would assume that the down vote is from a vendor. Probably one with a policy somewhat similar to what I ranted against.

Perhaps a vendor with a standing/similar policy would like to defend it?
How sad it is that the ones you have so much against, the vendors, you need so much for your habit.
If you feel that they do you so wrong why not go and buy from your streetdealer?
People with the attitude you have will be banned from buying soon anyway.
Who need an arrogant buyer how say the vendor have to go above and beyond?
What a good vendor has to do is make sure he does all to get it in the buyers mailbox, make sure he put in the product he advertize and make it stealthy enough to make it safe to have send to your home.
You have to be so happy and thankful you get what you want or need to your home, ordered from your lazy chair, sit back and wait till it falls in your mailbox.
Pretty relaxed I think.
Instead of being thankful you keep thinking how to make it ok to give as less as possible.
Only when they serve !!!??? what? yes serve you as YOU please you are willing to give 5/5
Trust me, reading your posts no vendor even thinks of selling to you.
You already said you had multiple accounts for as one is banned....you know you are in ''trouble'' keeping this up.
I would not sell you anything even if you were the last buyer on SR
+1

I don't agree with blacklisting / banning buyers just because they leave something lower than 5/5.
But it needs to be reasonable. At the end of the day, what we sell is illegal.
It arrives in your mailbox and you don't need to worry about the hassle and possible dangers of buying from a "street dealer."
Silk Road is a great service and most vendors put in effort to make their customers happy. It would be nice if buyers would simply show appreciation.
Title: Re: Vendor Feedback Issue
Post by: SynthesisWizard on September 05, 2013, 12:34 pm
One thing that recently was brought up on the r/SilkRoad sub of Reddit is the new feedback system and Vendor's manipulation of the system.  Now that feedback scores are all weighted I don't see why this policy of blackmailing customers with blacklist by leaving anything short of a 5/5 is allowed to continue. I would like to see the SR staff start/enforce a policy protecting buyers so that we can leave honest feedback. 

Personally, I will be leaving a 4/5 for most transactions. A 5/5 is now, IMO, reserved for those vendors who go above and beyond. Such as shipping a package express when I message them and ask. Sending "gifts" with my order.  A vendor sending a notice telling me that my package would arrive that day.

If SR staff doesn't feel the need to intervene, then I am asking all buyers to stick to your guns when ordering. If you felt it was only a 4/5 transaction then thats what you leave. I recently saw a post on Reddit where a person was asking about feedback. His situation was this; he ordered once from a vendor a came up about 4 grams short on an ounce. He messaged the vendor and the vendor said that he would include the missing in the next order which was already placed. The first package, btw, was also very sloppy in it's packaging/stealth. When the second package arrived the OP said that he could actually smell the chemicals as he opened the door to his mailbox. Not only was this one lacking the promised 4 grams missing from the previous order but it was short itself 1/2 gram on the current order.

The very next post was from a vendor saying leave a 5/5 and never do business with him again. This DEFEATS the whole purpose of the feedback system.  The next person ordering from him would see a 5/5 "Outstanding" and order from him based on that and others.

Personally, I would have left a 1/5 and sprayed him on every forum I could have. Not for the purpose of "revenge" per se, but to protect other buyers.  He is not only shorting his customers but jeopardizing his clients freedom.

5/5 my ass.

There has been a lot of back and forth concerning the new feedback system.  As it seems it is here to stay, I would hope that DPR and his staff would further legitimize this site by protecting buyers from feedback blackmail and vendor manipulation.

I do want to say that while I have only been here a while, I am impressed with the DPR's and his staff's constant attention to improvement and his willingness to keep us (the consumers and vendors) updated on the current status and changes of the site.

As a vendor, I agree with you about vendors should never threaten a buyer , However it is ridiculous for you to say you are going to leave a 4/5 for every transaction unless a vendor goes above and beyond for you. What do you class as above and beyond? As long as it is packaged securely/stealthily and you get what you paid for, you should leave a 5/5. a 4/5 rating effects a vendors stats and that is not fair at all , You are practically saying unless a vendor sends you extra and free gifts you are not going to leave a 5/5, which to me sounds like feedback extortion, the other way around.

The post on reddit  without a doubt deserved less than a 5/5, Much less. The vendor risked his buyers security and also scammed him, So he deserves less than full marks, But as I said before only in cases like this should you leave less.

Look at dingo ate my drugs post, Do you think that is fair the way buyers left him feedback for being too stealthy? That is downright ridiculous. Many vendors have to deal with things like this daily.
I have people messaging me all the time asking for free drugs, Even though I have never spoken to them before in my life.

Also when you are packaging say 10 orders in a day and you need to concentrate, You come online to mark them as sent, when they have been posted, Sometimes you have messages to answer, and you just dont have time to message buyers to say that is your order shipped, They should be able to see that from the orders tab, As it says in transit.

If a buyer left me a 4/5 , When I had packaged their order correctly, sent it out promptly, Given them what they paid for and been proffesional and courteous I would want to know what the hell was going on, and If I got a response like, "you did not go above and beyond for me" or "I didnt receive any free gifts" I would most probably not do business with them again.

SynthesisWizard
Title: Re: Vendor Feedback Issue
Post by: jesse on September 05, 2013, 12:48 pm
I've noticed that I've received one up vote and one down vote. I would assume that the down vote is from a vendor. Probably one with a policy somewhat similar to what I ranted against.

Perhaps a vendor with a standing/similar policy would like to defend it?
How sad it is that the ones you have so much against, the vendors, you need so much for your habit.
If you feel that they do you so wrong why not go and buy from your streetdealer?
People with the attitude you have will be banned from buying soon anyway.
Who need an arrogant buyer how say the vendor have to go above and beyond?
What a good vendor has to do is make sure he does all to get it in the buyers mailbox, make sure he put in the product he advertize and make it stealthy enough to make it safe to have send to your home.
You have to be so happy and thankful you get what you want or need to your home, ordered from your lazy chair, sit back and wait till it falls in your mailbox.
Pretty relaxed I think.
Instead of being thankful you keep thinking how to make it ok to give as less as possible.
Only when they serve !!!??? what? yes serve you as YOU please you are willing to give 5/5
Trust me, reading your posts no vendor even thinks of selling to you.
You already said you had multiple accounts for as one is banned....you know you are in ''trouble'' keeping this up.
I would not sell you anything even if you were the last buyer on SR
+1

I don't agree with blacklisting / banning buyers just because they leave something lower than 5/5.
But it needs to be reasonable. At the end of the day, what we sell is illegal.
It arrives in your mailbox and you don't need to worry about the hassle and possible dangers of buying from a "street dealer."
Silk Road is a great service and most vendors put in effort to make their customers happy. It would be nice if buyers would simply show appreciation.
Yes, exactly ....
I would never blacklist somebody for a low-er- feedback.
I will however ask why they did that.
Everybody has different standards but...take as example:
My shipments go all over the world and I have a success rate of 98% and over 2000+ shipments.
I have only 5/5 and fantastic written feedback.
First, I ship from a country not my own for safety and have to make many miles to get there.
I have a way of packing that in general people would/could call ''not stealthy enough''
It has however a philosophy, ...blending in perfect.
So, in many peoples eyes not really stealthy but I do a good job because all arrive and yes, I ship pills all over the world from Scandinavia to Australia etc to name the two worst countries to ship to.
So, because some buyer, sitting in his/her chair receiving my simple package and think what the fuck...this is not stealth...I give much less ...well, I am angry lets give 3/5.
Forget the miles I drive,
forget the principal of blending in what clearly works.
forget the 2000 successful deliveries so it is STEALTHY enough to make it 2000 times with only a  few missing.
So, you are rated by people who have no idea whatsoever about safe shipping etc.
They want you to go above and beyond but...when you do that they do not even see it.
I do it but.... why should I go above and beyond for you? Can I ask what you do for me?
They tend to forget they sit in the chair and push ok...thats all.
After that the vendor start to work for them.
Then after the order arrived the only thing they have to do is finalize ...man, that is not so easy as it sound.
I am lucky but what I hear from other vendors.... 

I go above and beyond because -and maybe I'm an old fool- I love it when it arrived, I love it that they are helped (many need for pain), I love it to get the 5/5 and the written feedback that they are so happy and a weight is of their shoulders knowing this one you can trust no matter what.
That is why I do it ...period.

I am lucky and happy all my customers are very grateful for the service and the possibility, I absolutely love giving them the best I can ....don't need people like hellonheels what is probably the right name.

Now with this new system they come out of the woodwork and from under stones because now they cannot blackmail the vendor to get what was so easy before....money or reship so the drugs are for half price ''or I'll give you 1/5 on all previous ratings'' so your average drops dramatically.

So, I think for a lot of vendors it is not the less than 5/5 what makes them ''not happy''
I think it is the fact that there is lack of appreciation and as a result of that bad reputation and less clients.
Title: Re: Vendor Feedback Issue
Post by: CosmoCanyon on September 06, 2013, 12:55 am
The feedback system/descriptions is too ambiguous to be any use (rating). Vendors QQ alot about the number system because it weighs too much for too long. With the amount of blackmail it can be very painful for vendors.

It should be like this. Each category is boolean, if a category is true then its 1 pt. Ex

-------Did you have a good expirence?
As Describled....Yes
Stealth....... Yes
Timeliness..... No
Communication.... Yes
Would you Recommend... Yes

would = 4/5 ranting.  Make sure the default is yes or else these noobs will be leaving 0/5 for months. The majority of SR users are idiots, no offense they are just very uneducated about what matters in this game. Many users think they should get a tracking # 10m after submitting an order.