Silk Road forums
Discussion => Shipping => Topic started by: Courier666 on August 29, 2012, 03:10 pm
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So i received a package of MDMA this morning, the packaging was actually very good vacuum pack hidden in another inconspicuous item.
The problem is i could clearly smell the MDMA through the vacuum packaging which i have never experienced before in the many other times i recieved this packaging.
So i give the vendor a 4 out of 5 rating because of this, but now he is trying to guilt trip me into changing the feedback because i have now ruined his 100 rep.
Am i right or wrong i see alot of talk lately about the ratings system being a bad reference point because people just give a 5 rating as soon as they receive their product regardless of any other factors.
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In my book, you're correct. That's why its a 1-5 star system and not a +/- system. For me, 5/5 is:
+1 for Good product as described.
+1 for shipping speed
+1 for no FE (general deal killer)
+1 for stealth package
+1 for good communication.
If you could smell it, then it isn't stealth. Unless all MDMA shipments smell (i don't know), then this wasn't a perfect transaction.
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I think that is correct as well. Most vendors will probably disagree with you, most buyers will probably side with you. I have only left bad feedback on 2 purchases. One of them never showed (was one state over from me), and the vendor did refund my money, but got very rude with me and even talked shit to me on the forums. I left a 3/5 and felt guilty about it, even though it was justified.
If you feel providing less than perfect feedback is warranted, then go with your gut and leave it.
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I wouldn't stress it - that is what feedback is for.
I would give him a chance to make it right though. It isn't like he can go back and put the smell back in the bag but as a vendor I would appreciate the chance to make something right before any negative feedback was given.
You aren't wrong however you play it, so don't feel guilty.
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Problem is, maybe he'll scam you next time :)
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Problem is, maybe he'll scam you next time :)
Haha thats exactly what i'm thinking, its too late now i think, il just stay away in the future! :)
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If this was ebay you could be as nuanced with your feedback as you like.
As far as I am concerned If you got the product and didn't get arrested just leave 5/5 and put your gripes about the smell in the notes of the feedback (and/or forums) for other users.
Vendors take the biggest risk here for little payoff. Lets cut them some slack :)
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I have to disagree the business, the vendors (if they are using correct shipping methods) are lower risk of getting caught themselves than a buyer for receiving a package that smells like cannabis or has powder leaking out of it.
now their risk of serious punishment IF they are caught is greater than the buyer (of personal amounts) but the risk of getting caught is on the buyer in this equation. lowering feedback score for improperly package drug that was able to be smelled through the pack definitely is warranted.
If the vendor wants the 5 rating, he has to earn it. getting a package and not going to jail isn't a 100% perfect job, putting the buyer at risk of being caught is less than 80%
people lower ratings for handwritten labels, now that is bullshit unless it is badly handwritten. ANY smell from a package of a vendor I do business with is the last order I get from him PERIOD.
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It's obvious some of the feedback vendors get is better than they deserve, and I think that most of us keep that in mind when purchasing.
That said, it's still the resourceful vendors who make SR possible. Beggars can't be choosers.
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I've had weed packages smell like weed. Keep in mind that it was triple vacuum sealed. If it made it to you and made it past the sniffers, than i don't think you should give bad feedback if the quality of the product is good and if the packaging is good. (Except for the odor.) You have to look at it from a vendors side. I'm sure the vendor is willing to work with you. You have to understand that your one feedback can do to that vendors reputation. When it comes to the road reputation is everything.
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Honestly, you received the product, Id leave a note saying packaging could have been better but the transaction was flawless otherwise.
Id be really disappointed as a vendor if someone ruined my 100% over something like that. if they didnt get the product then id understand.
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If it had vacuum packing but still smelt u should give 5/5 but mention in feedback that it should be triple wrapped in future. Send message to vendor telling them to triple wrap. Put thread forum in a week or two asking if people buying from that vendor now get triple or at least double wraping vacuum, if they do leave it at that, if they don't edit feedback and lower score.
Gives vendor a chance to make it right without messing with his rep.
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Feedback on SR is a bit more subjective than other places. I think the forums give us the chance to expound upon/review vendors a bit more thoroughly(and honestly)then the feedback system.
For example, many people will finalize upon receipt, without trying the product first. And I've received packages that I felt were less than stealthy, but still given a 5/5 because everything else was good.
As someone who has sold things online before, I would always appreciate a customer giving me the chance to make it up to them before dinging me. If you leave feedback that messes with a vendor's stats, they may hold that against you, and forget ordering from them in the future.
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Gives vendor a chance to make it right without messing with his rep.
if he is putting customers in danger of getting caught, his rep SHOULD be messed with, but if you find that he later fixed the problem he had, I guess I would agree that you could edit the feedback after confirmation of the fix (but you would then NOT have first hand knowledge of the fix if you relied that info on forum posts as you suggest), so I personally would not change it until I verified it through another order. And since I am not going to order from someone who compromises MY security, then the 4 out of 5 would stand firm.
+1 for Good product as described.
+1 for shipping speed
+1 for no FE (general deal killer)
+1 for stealth package
+1 for good communication.
the only issue I have with this is the +1 for no FE. That shouldn't be a positive point for the vendor, it should be common among everyone. FE is a tool for customers to show trust and appreciation to vendors who have earned it, not a tool for vendors to require. I guess what I am trying to say is that they shouldn't get a feedback point for something they should be doing anyway. The feedback formula I use weights the shipping stealth and quality heavily (2 points for each) and combines speed of arrival(not always controlled by vendor) communication, general feel of their personality, value, and everything else into that last point.
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You guys are starting to make me worry about my practices as a dealer with this no finalize early BS. I request early finalization on any users with less then 10 feedback or higher then 10% refund, or 20% auto finalize. Does this make me a sub-par dealer????
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You guys are starting to make me worry about my practices as a dealer with this no finalize early BS. I request early finalization on any users with less then 10 feedback or higher then 10% refund, or 20% auto finalize. Does this make me a sub-par dealer????
No, and you bring up a valid point, provided you're over the 30+? sale requirement . I guess it would need tobe modify to something like, +1 for vendors who don't require all users to FE. *Certain terms apply, and are clearly stated.
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You guys are starting to make me worry about my practices as a dealer with this no finalize early BS. I request early finalization on any users with less then 10 feedback or higher then 10% refund, or 20% auto finalize. Does this make me a sub-par dealer????
The whole idea of requiring new buyer/bad stat buyers to FE is just plain wrong. As a vendor you shouldn't have to worry about new buyers within escrow, because if it goes to resolution, it becomes your word against theirs. If you are a reliable, long standing dealer, your word should carry weight. That isn't to say that reliable vendors don't make mistakes because they do. A real policy of protection for new buyers/bad stats is instead of requiring them to open up themselves for a FE scam, instead require them to purchase shipping with DCN. then the resolution process is simple. They claim that they didn't get it, the trusted vendor supplies the DCN that proves they did and you get paid.
For over a year I have heard about vendors requiring FE for new customers. Why should someone bear all the risk of loss because they are new, and FYI, there are plenty of long standing customers who change their buyer nym often without being scammers (wretched for example) the nym wretched has not purchased anything on SR market for a very long time, while forum wretched places orders regularly. Two reasons I do this. First, I don't want a new vendor to be able to link my nym with my purchase history. Second I also want to remain a small fish in the eyes of any LE vendor that I might encounter (i.e. big buyer stats could be worth investigating)
So I think a better "new buyer and bad stat buyer" policy would be that all new / bad stat buyers are required to pay for shipping with DCN and the rest should handle itself because you are a trusted vendor who consistently delivers!
And I would almost go so far as to request that this be implemented as Silk Road policy, but I won't do that. I just pledge that any dealer with a FE policy instead of a sensible policy such as DCN requirement for new buyers will not have the business of wretched!
but still a dealer does not deserve a feedback point simply due to their not throwing escrow to the wind
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I so highjacked this thread =P
But yes, I actually offer new or high return users 50% discounted priority with tracking at less then the cost to me $4 dollars. That way there is DCN, but I do not force them to purchase, I recently turned someone down with a 19% return rate, he refused to finalize early, and refused to buy the priority, then called me a scammer. All though Id think if it went to resolution they would settle in my favor at a 19% return rate, but how the hell did he even make it to a 19% return rate in the first place. it was showing over 40 purchases too so its not like he was new.
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I'm with the first few posters in that if it's made it to you and is everything you paid for, weighs up and they were polite and courteous, then give a 5/5 but mention it in the note. Quality is something I wonder about, like vendors who say they have totally pure coke, mdma, heroin whatever and it's clearly not. Yet people are still giving them 5s. That's a hard one.
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You are not wrong to give feedback as 4/5, as you are giving the seller the opportunity to change his/her business around to better future transactions. If I were to see your 4/5 rating with "smell came thru package" I wouldn't automatically decide not to purchase from the said vendor; rather, I'd look on the forums and seller profile page to see if he acknowledged the error and has changed his procedures to prevent the issue from happening again.
Although proactive practices are preferred, if the seller reacts in a positive way, this makes me trust the seller even more because I know they are willing to make good the problems they have caused in the past. Keep your feedback as it is and it would be appreciated to change it to 5/5 if you order again and the problem has been resolved.
Tizzat - You are far from wrong in making new buyers FE. When I was new I selected sellers that were reputable and spent no more than $200 to mitigate risk. Sure enough I got everything perfectly and even if someone did pull a Tony76 on me I wouldn't be out too much money. New buyers are too often scammers and the resolution centre can hold up money that you are owed for a long time, so the FE practice for new/bad buyers is one that I support 100%. I feel you earn the right to use the escrow system by first demonstrating that you are not a scammer, because if FE wasn't expected with new buyers, you'd start seeing a lot more scamming because the buyer has NOTHING to lose, except for the value of the product that they received. At loss for the seller is money being held up to be resolved.
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I guarantee that tony76 took more from customers than ANY scam buyer or group of scam buyers, end of story. Any vendor can go rogue at any time and being complacent with FE policies is the wrong way to be. when a new seller arrives on the scene, are customers allowed to ask that he sends product before money is put in escrow? NO, and FE is the exact same fucking thing. like I said, require they purchase DCN or next day shipping, but don't require them to blindly trust that an anonymous person on a hidden service and remove the escrow protection that would have allowed tony to leave here with NOTHING when he sent NOTHING. there is zero defense for an FE policy on a public forum like this. I have the exact opposite stand on private sources. I pay them in full weeks, sometimes months in advance of getting product, but you know what? I have dealt with them, and vetted their service from people who I trust through spending time discussing life with them on jabber, boards, email, and didn't just bump into them on the most public drug site in existence and trust them because I was new. That is a tough way to be. Who was it, Anarcho something, weed vendor who stated that to be a reputable vendor, you need to have capital in reserve to cover extended time having money tied up. That is true of any business. If 1 order going to resolution ties up so much fucking cash that you can't operate, then it is time to either get a loan, or work on lowering your costs so you can earn something that I like to call profit. then, instead of throwing that profit into the wind, you reinvest it into the business. It takes time and it takes work, but nobody ever said being a drug dealer was easy.
Sorry if that comes off as harsh to the legacy FE crowd, but instead of relying on a requirement that shifts all the risk of loss to the new person who found this place and sees freedom that his own government has stripped away from him. (vendor risks having money tied up a few days in resolution and people think that is more of a travesty than a new buyer losing money to a selective scam)
second feature request from wretched today. automatic finalizing escrow when DCN marked delivered. Now this might be difficult to enact, but what if the vendor could enter the DCN into a text box that appears next to an order from someone with a universally agreed upon stat deficiency places an order with a vendor who has reached the 35 or 53 or whatever the requirement actually is that defines them as an SR Vendor. There would have to be some way to tract that DCN without using Tor and reporting it back to the store. and whenever DCN shows delivered, funds are released. Now the risk of the buyer getting ripped off because he is new is mitigated (not eliminated, but we can cover that when I am less intoxicated) and the order finalizes quickly by the automatic function, so the vendor doesn't get sand in their vagina. This is what we call in my IRL business a win-win with a mitigatable (add that word to the wretched proper English dictionary) risk of loss that still sits firmly on the buyer as the FE requirements intend.
Idea number 2 and this isn't a feature request, but I am going to put it here anyway. buyers, if you really want to spend your money with a vendor who has an FE policy (new buyers only with this offer, no bad stat buyers) you can do a couple things. if you plan on spending large money quickly ( I do not endorse) then just pick up a vendor account, and pad your buyer stats yourself to be able to use the escrow that was the entire point of using Silk Road until egos were born (on a side note, any of the egotistical FE requiring vendors that want to go through an ego death cleansing, hit me up, and I will, for a fee, dose you on L to the point where if your ego still exists, it will be trembling in the corner) But if you are just looking for an order to test the waters the way most new buyers are actually doing this, PM me on the forum and I will proxy your order without hesitation.
I am not quite grounded in reality at the moment, so I hope that makes sense to people who needed to hear it, and I hope it got under the skin of those who require their new, and likely good future customers to bear the entire risk of loss just because they finally located a place of freedom.
wretched 2012