Silk Road forums

Discussion => Silk Road discussion => Topic started by: anonaddict on June 20, 2012, 12:47 am

Title: FINALIZE BEFORE SHIPMENT
Post by: anonaddict on June 20, 2012, 12:47 am
I notice a lot of vendors are asking their customers to give up any leverage they have before they are willing to ship the product. I can understand it if the customer has a low buyer feedback and some refunds but for people that are 100% or long time members, it doesn't make sense.

I think making everyone finalize early defeats the entire purpose of escrow. I believe that escrow keeps the customer less stressed, and the dealer more in tune to the satisfaction of the customer. It drives the seller to get the product into the customers hands faster and the highest quality of product possible.

If silk road would place FE as a rating that gives a score of 0 out of 5. Also charge another $100 for the privilege of asking your customers to FE, this should weed out the scammer vendors as it would cost $250 for them to even get started. Also place a mandatory suspension of seller account if their rating drops below a cretin percentage, this way they would limit FE orders to only new people and we get full escrow protection and customer service back. Or Silk Road could implement a MANDATORY 10 day escrow on and order finalized within X days of placing orders in transit.

anonaddict
Title: Re: FINALIZE BEFORE SHIPMENT
Post by: themessenger2 on June 20, 2012, 02:53 am
$100 bucks is nothing to a scammer. One order will take care of that. Just go to someone else if a vendor requires FE. If everyone did that then no vendors would require it.
Title: Re: FINALIZE BEFORE SHIPMENT
Post by: Christy Nugs on June 20, 2012, 07:15 am
If silk road would place FE as a rating that gives a score of 0 out of 5. Also charge another $100 for the privilege of asking your customers to FE, this should weed out the scammer vendors as it would cost $250 for them to even get started. Also place a mandatory suspension of seller account if their rating drops below a cretin percentage, this way they would limit FE orders to only new people and we get full escrow protection and customer service back. Or Silk Road could implement a MANDATORY 10 day escrow on and order finalized within X days of placing orders in transit.

I have never asked anyone who has been qualified to order from me to finalize early except once for out of continental buyer who ended up being really great guy on some island <3 Hiya paradox..:)
After first order, I never asked him to do that ever again. Everyone should go within escrow till they bust their cherry!! I have read soooo many scammer stories - both ways - vendor and buyer!!

Anyway I am happy to be the first person to give u ur first +1 karma for your most excellent idea.
Doing it is a bitch - well not that hard - just fixing the shit u mess up after u do what u wanted to do in the first place is. lol
They might do it some day...crosses fingers...:)

Peace out;
Christy
Title: Re: FINALIZE BEFORE SHIPMENT
Post by: Mishrume on June 20, 2012, 10:56 am
I say just fuck FE off completely. Why should the vendor have all the power? Equal rights all the way.
Title: Re: FINALIZE BEFORE SHIPMENT
Post by: Synaptic on June 20, 2012, 04:23 pm
I say just fuck FE off completely. Why should the vendor have all the power? Equal rights all the way.

Because we paid the price it costs to become a vendor, dedicate the time it requires, takes the majority of the risk, and have access to many more resources than buyers.     

Vendors have the power because vendors have the product.

As for Finalizing early, if a vendor requires it buy a small amount first, don't risk a large amount of money when you can test the vendor out using smaller amounts.

From a vendors viewpoint, usually the larger vendors require FE and the smaller ones do not. Here is why.

When a vendor has a lot of orders (30-70) in escrow, then he does not have any product (it is on it's way to the customer) and he does not have any money (it is in escrow).

This makes it increasingly hard if the Vendor substantially relies on the income from Silk Road.

Silk Road offered a Loan Service to vendors (still active) but they charge a large amount in interest, and most vendors do not use this tool.

$100 bucks is nothing to a scammer. One order will take care of that. Just go to someone else if a vendor requires FE. If everyone did that then no vendors would require it.

Actually the Silk Road implemented a new system of feedback where it is gauged not only on the rating you left but the amount the item costs.

A 1/5 feedback on a $1 item won't do much, but a 1/5 feedback on a $100 item can bring the vendor down a few digits, sometimes 10+ if they are starting out.

If silk road would place FE as a rating that gives a score of 0 out of 5. Also charge another $100 for the privilege of asking your customers to FE, this should weed out the scammer vendors as it would cost $250 for them to even get started. Also place a mandatory suspension of seller account if their rating drops below a cretin percentage, this way they would limit FE orders to only new people and we get full escrow protection and customer service back. Or Silk Road could implement a MANDATORY 10 day escrow on and order finalized within X days of placing orders in transit.

I have never asked anyone who has been qualified to order from me to finalize early except once for out of continental buyer who ended up being really great guy on some island <3 Hiya paradox..:)
After first order, I never asked him to do that ever again. Everyone should go within escrow till they bust their cherry!! I have read soooo many scammer stories - both ways - vendor and buyer!!

Anyway I am happy to be the first person to give u ur first +1 karma for your most excellent idea.
Doing it is a bitch - well not that hard - just fixing the shit u mess up after u do what u wanted to do in the first place is. lol
They might do it some day...crosses fingers...:)

Peace out;
Christy

This is implying that all vendors that require FE are scammers. This is not the case, and some of the largest vendors on SR require it.

However, I do praise you for remaining one of the accounts that do not require it, and we admire your dedication to your customers.

As for the cost - scammers will always be here. Making it hard on them is also making it increasingly harder on the vendors as well, and most of these issues can be averted by buyers making more informed decisions.

This isn't a website you can contact support or talk to the supervisor. If you are already here, then you should be smart enough to be able to research if a vendor is legitimate or not, regardless of their FE policy.


As for the 0 out of 5, what about digital goods and lotteries? Some of these take time, but you are selling information, not tangible products, so this would run all the digital goods vendors and lottery vendors ratings into the ground. That also means that buyers cannot finalize early for good faith, which is always appreciated by vendors, without automatically leaving a 0/5 feedback.

However, paying a bit extra wouldn't be a bad idea, but then you would start having regular buyers, regular vendors, premium vendors, and it will start to spiral out of control when the SR starts charging for extra services.

Short story, this would cause a large amount of ratings to plummet, and the system is already damaged enough as it is (the feedback and rating system has been faulty for a long time now).

However, for the vendors reading this, there is a specific thread in the Vendor Forums where you can submit your ideas for improvements here - http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?topic=22491.0



Team Synaptic
Title: Re: FINALIZE BEFORE SHIPMENT
Post by: Wazup7 on June 20, 2012, 04:42 pm
Systemically, there is absolutely no way SR can know whether a finalization is "early" or "after the product was received".  Example, I place an order for some bud, and a seperate order for a digital item, both at pretty much the same time.  I immediately receive the digital item, and finalize, so that order is complete.  Later, bud vender asks me to FE, and I do and he ships.....etc.  There is very little that SR can do to realize that the digital item was *not* finalized early, and the cannabis was.

so that being said, don't put the burden on SR to solve this, so called "problem".  as a vendor, you have the right to ask for FE, and as a buyer, you have the right to decline and move on with no loss.  both parties are trying to protect their interests.  If you must FE, start small and ask for tracking or dcn information.

I've found the vendors who I trust, for every product I want to buy here and more, and they all allow me to stay in escrow.

And Synaptic, I disagree.  as a buyer, I found that smaller vendors tend to ask for FE more often than larger vendors.  As a regular vendor, you are shipping every day and getting funds released every day (scamming aside).  If you're really moving product like you describe, you're never in the situation where you have no product and no money.  Smaller vendors are much more likely to run out of product than larger vendors are.
Title: Re: FINALIZE BEFORE SHIPMENT
Post by: DrugNerd on June 20, 2012, 05:47 pm
Another issue is when buyers leave a false 5/5...
They rate 5/5 but complain of non-delivery or a bad product in the comment.
Buyers are afraid that they'll get blacklisted by the seller if they leave anything but a 5...
Title: Re: FINALIZE BEFORE SHIPMENT
Post by: anonaddict on June 21, 2012, 12:23 am
I have never asked anyone who has been qualified to order from me to finalize early except once for out of continental buyer who ended up being really great guy on some island <3 Hiya paradox..:)
After first order, I never asked him to do that ever again. Everyone should go within escrow till they bust their cherry!! I have read soooo many scammer stories - both ways - vendor and buyer!!

And after tracking you down on the Road and reading your feedback it sounds like you have the right idea. All of your feedback is positive and you are quick to meet your customers needs, and at a great price. If I ever need an ass load of hash you are my girl. Unfortunately I can't smoke because of my job, I get small amounts for my wife, makes her happy ;D.

Anyway I am happy to be the first person to give u ur first +1 karma for your most excellent idea.
If I knew how I would give you +1 karma back, and give you.
+1 product for price
+1 packaging
+1 delivery time
+1 overall vendor

And as for Synaptic, thank you for pointing out the vendors point of view here.
Because we paid the price it costs to become a vendor, dedicate the time it requires, takes the majority of the risk, and have access to many more resources than buyers.     

Vendors have the power because vendors have the product.
First let me point out that vendors are here to MAKE MONEY!!!! That's why they paid the price, dedicate the time, and by making the customer Finalize Early the risk is shifted to the customer. As an example of trying to make money check the links below.
http://silkroadvb5piz3r.onion/silkroad/item/c92b4b3b9b
http://sporeworks.com/Psilocybe-cubensis-Golden-Teacher-Spore-Syringe-Microscopy-Kit.html
That's 5 times the price almost anyone can pay for it on the clear net.

As for Finalizing early, if a vendor requires it buy a small amount first, don't risk a large amount of money when you can test the vendor out using smaller amounts.

From a vendors viewpoint, usually the larger vendors require FE and the smaller ones do not. Here is why.

When a vendor has a lot of orders (30-70) in escrow, then he does not have any product (it is on it's way to the customer) and he does not have any money (it is in escrow).

This makes it increasingly hard if the Vendor substantially relies on the income from Silk Road.

Silk Road offered a Loan Service to vendors (still active) but they charge a large amount in interest, and most vendors do not use this tool.

That looks like a business pushing the cost of expansion onto the customer. The faster you have the orders in customers hands the faster the money comes out of escrow. Most of Christy Nugs customers have their product in 2 days. That's not a long time for money to sit in escrow. If you choose to ship international or through slower means then that is a business decision.

Actually the Silk Road implemented a new system of feedback where it is gauged not only on the rating you left but the amount the item costs.

A 1/5 feedback on a $1 item won't do much, but a 1/5 feedback on a $100 item can bring the vendor down a few digits, sometimes 10+ if they are starting out.

I did not know that and it sounds like a great idea.

As for the 0 out of 5, what about digital goods and lotteries? Some of these take time, but you are selling information, not tangible products, so this would run all the digital goods vendors and lottery vendors ratings into the ground. That also means that buyers cannot finalize early for good faith, which is always appreciated by vendors, without automatically leaving a 0/5 feedback.

However, paying a bit extra wouldn't be a bad idea, but then you would start having regular buyers, regular vendors, premium vendors, and it will start to spiral out of control when the SR starts charging for extra services.

Short story, this would cause a large amount of ratings to plummet, and the system is already damaged enough as it is (the feedback and rating system has been faulty for a long time now).

I agree with almost all of what you said here. Lotteries can be an automatic finalize, and digital goods can be finalize at any time. This could be built into the site, so the vendors of these products won't be affected.

I don't think there would be a problem with having different classes of vendors, verified ones and new ones long term ones.

I agree that the system is damages, that's why I am in here bouncing around ideas.

As there are 2 sides to any bitcoin I of course took the customer side and you being a vendor took the other. I hope you don't take our discussion as my trying to flame you, as that is not my intent. I encourage mature and open discussion on this topic and that is what you provided.

Thank You