Silk Road forums
Discussion => Drug safety => Topic started by: needhelp2012 on July 10, 2012, 01:36 am
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hello everyone. ive been addicted to opiates for over half a year now. started with oxy and quickly moved to H. i decided i couldnt do this anymore and took the plunge and went to a Suboxone doctor for help. he gave me a 2mg starter dose then another 2mg an hour later. i suppose it cut the edge off but i still feel anxious and twitchy as shit. is there anyone here who can give me some advice on what i should be feeling and if 4mg is enough. i was previously taking 100-200mg of H a day - had my last dose last night at 11pm. it's now 9:40pm next day and ive taken 4mg of suboxone and only feel a mild sense of relief. when i got home i had to pour a very strong drink to calm my nerves but it just doesnt feel right. does anyone here have any experience with suboxone and how much i should be taking if i was previously taking 100-200mg of H a day? i snorted the H btw not IV. maybe i was naive but i thought i would be given a larger dose and i would feel normal as if i had used but without the euphoria. i have the cold shivers, feel 100 pounds heavier, runny nose, and just down in general.
ive been tempted to use a small bit of H but im worried it will at best do nothing or at worse put me in withdrawal . im not sure how suboxone works it seems like a very unique drug and i do not want to reverse the very small bit of progress ive made which is going almost 24 hours without H and getting on suboxone. i had to be off H for around 18 hours before i could take the subs and i dont want that to have been a waste of time. can someone offer me some advice? any advice would be great. feel very scared of going thru the night because last time i didnt that without any H or with a low dose of H i couldnt sleep and it was a living hell. Im not your typical steriotype of a junkie either. im a middle class, father of 2 kids with a very good job and i cant afford to let this bullshit addication to take my life over. things were great when i was using H. i felt great, was great with my kids and wife, infact my great mood improved my marriage BIGTIME but now im worried about that all being reversed and more importantly not being able to hide this addication. i CANNOT let my family know, especially my wife so i need to be on the proper dose of subs so im normal all the time and then slowly wean off that. what do most people start at? 8mg? more? less? really need some advice here.
thanks. NH2012
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Hi. I have experience. Don't do H while on the suboxone. Suboxone sticks to those receptors like glue. You might get something from the H, but you might also trigger more W/D.
4mg is a TINY dose. I would expect a doctor to try as low as 8 or 16mg, but 4 mg is what you taper down to after a year or so on subs. I had a much smaller habit, I was doing 120-240 OC snorted a day. They started me on about 12 mg and I was very comfortable. I voluntarily started tapering. Sometime you forget a dose. If you still feel ok try staying on the lower dose. Also try doing something 12 one day and 10 the next until you can drop to 10 everyday. 4 mg is a dose for a housewife who takes 8 vicodins a day, not for an H user! Does this doc know what he's doing? How did you find him? My doc told me they are trying lower doses but will go up if relief is not found. The goal is to help you stop thinking about scoring H!
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just realized I should be clear. I've never done H so can't comment from personal experience. But I have taken OCs while on subs and its kind of a waste of good drugs. The Suboxone will keep the receptors engaged for between 24-72 hours (the official number is 36 but I can get high sooner and I've known people who can't for 3 days).
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hi fender. thanks for your reply. im glad im not crazy for thinking 4mg wasnt enough. i did end up doing about 10mg of the H i had left which did provide a tiny bit of releif. i also wrote the pharmacist an email explaining my discomfort and he said he could speak to the doc to up my dosage tomorrow. he also mentioned using a small amount should be ok but only if absolutely necessary. i agree the point of this is to avoid scoring more H so im suprised they started me off at such a low dose. i think the doc was worried about overdosing me as he mentioned that several times. i dont fit the typical junkie profile and i feel like he was shocked that i was using 200ish mg of H . i am a computer guy and based on the faces i saw in this clinic i definitely dont match the profile. do u think i will be comfortable at 8mg? i had to wait an hour after the initial 2mg dose to get the second 2mg dose so i have a feeling i would have trouble getting more then 8mg. i just want the withdrawals to stop im not looking to chase the high any more. thanks so much for your reply. would love to hear from others too. NH2012
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Hi NH2012, I don't have experience in this subject personally, but a friend of mine just kicked H about two months ago, and I know for a fact he was taking a lot more suboxone than just 4mg, the doctor actually prescribed him more dosage and a longer set date of taking them then he was comfortable with.. I hope things go well for you bud. drevious.
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4mg. that's so pathetic. your doctor doesn't sound educated at all. i used to smoke 200-300mg of oxys per day and my doctor started me out at 16mg and kept me there for 2 months. it was the perfect dose and did very well for me. now im 6 months into the program and have moved down to around 3mg daily and life is so much better. seriously talk to your doc. tell him that its not enough and what you feel. hes just asking for relapse. and stay in the program! it seriously works. best decision i have ever made, good luck!!
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thanks for the encouring story about your friend drevious. and smokeweek420 ... i completely agree its asking for a relapse and that happened today! :( i had emailed the pharmacy guy who is tight with the doctors and said i was really uncomfortable and widthdrawing all night last night so they bumped it up to 8mg. that added some releif but i ended up driving myself back to the clinic and waiting an hour and a half for the a doctor that can prescribe suboxone to arrive (my normal sub doc was off today.. great eh? second day into treatment with a very low dose and he is off) .. anyways this sub doc said he couldnt up my dose today because they already had gone up 4mg which is the max they could go in one day. so tomorrow i can get upped to 12 im guessing. im going to ask to go the full 16 cuz i think i really need to be there. i was doing 200-300mg of H for christs sake - my own stupid fault buti told them this.. i have been very honest and upfront and i went into this thinking i could do it but today after i was told they couldnt up the dose i lost hope of making it thru the niught so i asked the doc if taking a small amoutn of H would cause any problems mixing with the sub and he said "you didnt hear it from me but if you need to use a bit to feel comfortable it wont cause you any problems". wow so i was told it was ok to use H if absolutely necessary but they couldnt up my dose when i clearly needed it because it had already been uped 4mg today. so i got in the car, drove my 1 hour commute home and before i went in to the wife n kids i did 20mg of H and within 15 mins was feeling more releif then ive had from any of the subs. im going to be a bit more agressive tomorrow with my dose i suppose but im really starting to doubt that suboxone can help. this was a really bad start because my biggest initial fear was being stuck without H and the subs not working... i have probably 300mg left of H and im now getting ready to buy a bit more just to cover me from WDs -the subs are stopping me from getting high to be honest which is probably a good thing but right now i dont even care about getting high. i just want to feel normal and not be withdrawing. thats why i went for suboxone because i heard such goods things about it being a mircle drug and feeling immediate releif for days and people have kicked huge H habbits in just 2 weeks with subs. ahhhh..the psycological part of it is horrible too ... anyways. thanks guys. going to try to keep at it and get off H but it sucks ive had to use it already just to feel better because the subs have been useless so far - im really hoping its just being underdosed and tomorrow they will fix that. take care everyone. NH2012
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I have no idea why your doctor doesn't give you an adequate dosage.. This doctor seems like he wants you on the H for some reason. Mixing the two doesnt sound like a good thing though.. I would give 12-16mg a try.
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i am very perplexed as to why they started me off so low as well. its literally made me HAVE to break my goal which was not to use H at all after going on suboxone. only thing i can think of is the doctor didnt beleive me i was on such a high amount of H because i really dont look like the typical addict that was in his office. i dont have track marks, never have shot up, no history of any criminal offenses and a good high paying job with benefits. lol. I feeling much better today after doing a small amount of H at 6pm last night which carried me thru to 6am today. did a even tinier bit of H (no more then 10mg if that) and was able to fall back asleep until 10am. around 12 i did about 5-10mg just to calm the tiny jitters i was feeling and i should be getting my 8mg suboxone whenever i go back into the clinic. i begged the pharmacy guy to talk to my doc and he replied to me that the doc wasnt going to increase until tomorrow when i was scheduled to see him. i asked when and where the doc was today cuz id go seem him sooner - i am just trying to get clean and denying me of an increase is forcing me to use H in tiny amounts with the subs just to feel better. ive noticed that the subs managerd to keep me withdrawl free from 6pm to 6am which was nice.
sorry for the long post. this is a good way to pass time as my body is readjusting itself from 200-300mg of H daily to almost none. lol. all i have is time to pass now .
i was hoping someone could tell me the best way to get off subs quickly and not withdraw from H or subs. i read somewhere that u can get of all opiates using subs pretty quickly in just a few doses. but my doc said it's a 6-12 month process which i think is only so they can keep making money from me. its such a battle it seems to get clean. im almost wishing i had just bought subs off SR instead of being ball n chained to this clinic and at the mercy of this doc who doesnt prescribe me the right amount. arggg. looking forward to hearing a good quick taper schedule that someone can suggest. at this point i trust SR more then any of the docs at that clinic because you guys have used suboxone before and know how it works but this doc and the pharmacist clearly never have.
thanks all.. NH2012
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Hey again, I know my friend was able to go from taking a high dosage of suboxone down to nothing in his two month period. He was uncomfortable with how long the doctor wanted him to take the pills (two years or such) and he created his own plan to ween himself off the pills faster by dropping the dosage. Do some research and go with what feels comfortable. Keep in mind you can get hooked on subs after a while too! Good luck! drevious
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Hey just got caught up on the messages here. I am not sure if 8mg would be enough because I really don't know anything about H. But I know it is not uncommon to see 12-16 mg doses. My doc is pretty well educated and he and I discuss trends in suboxone at times. He told me it is widely believed that 24mg is the highest effective dose. Anything more does not increase the effectiveness. There is some risk of OD with suboxone at very high doses because it renders the substance used to stop an OD (I forget the name but it begins with an n) inert.
I too am outside what people would call the typical profile. According to my doc, people like you and me ARE the profile of the average suboxone patient. I would have to agree with the other poster that your doc sounds very uneducated about bupe. All doctors want to use the minimum effective dose but they should also really want to relieve your suffering and suppress the desire to use H or oxy or whatever.
When I first went on Suboxone, I thought my plan was to use it to ease the WD symptoms and then get off it completely. But my doc and I have decided it's ok to stay on it if that is better. They are finding it is much harder to get off than the original marketing material suggested. Also it is being used increasingly as a pain killer for "at-risk" patients who have been labeled drug seekers. That's a bullshit use of it because it is quite ineffective as a painkiller.
Last comment for now: many of the documents provide by the manufacturer are flat our lies or at least misleading. Therefore you should really find a doc who has experience with this med because the prescribing guidelines contain some misinformation.