Silk Road forums
Discussion => Drug safety => Topic started by: anonypunk on September 13, 2013, 08:27 am
-
I copied this from a post I made in a thread about MXE (and edited slightly) but I wanted it to have it's own post for others to give input to as well.
"We all should really try and help people out in making educated decisions on their drug use. Everyone starts somewhere. So if the info is right there when you're buying it at least you know that you can have a reference.
Everyone should just take the money they were going to get one bag of weed with and buy new scales if they don't have them already.
If you cant do that...
Then maybe a we could get someone with an extremely high precision scale to take comparison photos to help people eyeball amounts.
We could make a photo series on the onion network with varying increments: 10mg powder beside a dime - 50mg powder beside a nickel - 1gram beside a quarter?
Do all the major drugs and then you'd have a visual handbook to help you guess how much you're taking.
See what I mean?
Something along those lines and have a scale based on currencies in different countries."
What do you all think. If it would be of benefit to the community I could do this but I am not sure my scales would be accurate enough really. Anyone want to take on this simple task that could possibly help everyone here? It helps those that already have good scales by helping everyone to be safe and in doing so less harmful things will happen (hopefully). The less bad press good drugs recieve because of stupid people the better for everyone involved right?
-
I think this is a good idea. Maybe not for things like Xanax powder or Moxy which require doses >10mg. But for things like MDMA, ketamine coke etc.. it'll be good. Maybe even 2cb..
I have some precession scales so I can upload of pictures if I have the time soon. I can use UK currency.
Will also have to make sure the substance is completely crushed and as flat as I can get it on the surface.
-
How awesome of you! You'll be helping more folks than you know.
I was also thinking that if the pile was spread out evenly in a line...you could place a ruler or tape measure beside it for added comparison.
Think I should link to where you upload your pics in this thread or create a whole separate thread that could later possibly be stickied?
Should they be on the onion network for safety reasons?
Scrubbing the metadata before upload is probably a good idea too.
Now we need someone from the US and other countries to volunteer a few minutes of their time.
-
With scales as cheap as $!0 for 2 decimal place accuracy I really think there is no excuse to not own a scale if you are involved in powder dosage for any substance that risks overdose
-
Yeah ruler is a good shout. Of course I would remove all meta/exif data lol, uploaded to a onion uploader.
I can probably do some point over the weekend:
MDMA and MDA, I'm guessing these would have the same molecular weight?
Ketamine
Cocaine
2cb
GHB powder.
Probably some others as well.
Though I think 0.000 scales are essential for all chemical users, obviously there is going to be a small minority who don't purchase them so I think this could be pretty useful for them.
-
Density varies significantly. Think about fine powdered MDMA vs brown sugar lump MDMA. DMT can vary in density be over 40%.
You cannot judge the weight of a powder by its volume.
-
buying a precision isn't that expensive :P and is quite handy for proper an accurate dosage, and also for verifying you actually received the amount ordered ;)
-
buying a precision isn't that expensive :P and is quite handy for proper an accurate dosage, and also for verifying you actually received the amount ordered ;)
Agreed. A set of .001g accurate scales are only $50. They last forever if you treat them right and you will enjoy your drugs so much more.
Plus if you have scales then it is much easier to sell some on the side to pay for your supply.
-
buying a precision isn't that expensive :P and is quite handy for proper an accurate dosage, and also for verifying you actually received the amount ordered ;)
Agreed. A set of .001g accurate scales are only $50. They last forever if you treat them right and you will enjoy your drugs so much more.
Plus if you have scales then it is much easier to sell some on the side to pay for your supply.
:D yeah, I got my x.001 for around $40 from optiman ^_^ been loving it ever since.. defiantly one of the better drug related investments I've made lol
also the point you made about density is key, imo. its hard to judge it by eye alone, now throw it onto a picture an given everyone has different computers an resolution settings.. I can image this not working out well in the overall long run.
MDMA chunks vs powder looks way different.. powder always looks like more :P
-
You've all made very valid points and I completely agree. I play devil's advocate for the sake of lively discussion as well sometimes too.
However, I still feel that the amount of people purchasing on here without scales is probably much higher than any of us think. It's such a simple and easy way to help others that I see the benefits far outweighing any negative. Think about it. If you were 16 years old with a part time job and you get paid your measly $150 a week and you want to party down. Think they are more concerned with buying scales or drugs?
I know...16 year old kids shouldn't be using drugs at all...but they do. It's obvious they are here and buying.
Every action we take as responsible drug users will help other become responsible drug users as well.
People are going to experiment and have fun and push the limits. Really though, how hard is it to make a measurement and take a pic then upload it? I do it all the time for clearnet sites.
This could have great benefits for all of society. Maybe I'm too utopian in my view of the world but it takes just a little effort from a few people to have a dramatic impact sometimes.
PLUR
-
Yeah this is why it would only work if the substance is crushed as much as it could be into a fine powder before taking the picture.
-
Yeah this is why it would only work if the substance is crushed as much as it could be into a fine powder before taking the picture.
I agree man. =)
-
With exploring new substances like 2C-B this has also become a problem to me. More than it was before with MDMA for obvious reasons.
Now I'm measuring the MDMA with a dosage spoon that holds 120mg, this may be not super accurate because of the different densities of MDMA and of what the dosage spoon is for, but it seems to work really well.
With 2C-B I just eyeball it with a knife from 100mg into 20mg or from 20mg into 5mg. But I would say +-5mg are not a problem with 2C-B, I know the whole world says the exact opposite, but this is my experience with it. I would also take 40mg+ as an initial dose without worries it could be to intense after my first trip on it, maybe you should do it differently if you want the pure safeness.
-
I copied this from a post I made in a thread about MXE (and edited slightly) but I wanted it to have it's own post for others to give input to as well.
"We all should really try and help people out in making educated decisions on their drug use. Everyone starts somewhere. So if the info is right there when you're buying it at least you know that you can have a reference.
Everyone should just take the money they were going to get one bag of weed with and buy new scales if they don't have them already.
If you cant do that...
Then maybe a we could get someone with an extremely high precision scale to take comparison photos to help people eyeball amounts.
We could make a photo series on the onion network with varying increments: 10mg powder beside a dime - 50mg powder beside a nickel - 1gram beside a quarter?
Do all the major drugs and then you'd have a visual handbook to help you guess how much you're taking.
See what I mean?
Something along those lines and have a scale based on currencies in different countries."
What do you all think. If it would be of benefit to the community I could do this but I am not sure my scales would be accurate enough really. Anyone want to take on this simple task that could possibly help everyone here? It helps those that already have good scales by helping everyone to be safe and in doing so less harmful things will happen (hopefully). The less bad press good drugs recieve because of stupid people the better for everyone involved right?
+1
A good idea. I agree with what someone else posted. Maybe a ruler would be good.
Unfortunately a lot of people won't even bother to check, but I think it will help some people.
I used to weigh out doses, but not I can look at it and straight away know just by looking what dosage I should be having.
Experience helps.
-
Experience does help. Most kids have no experience. If I trusted my scales more I'd do it myself but I figured someone would have the few minutes it takes to get their nice scales out and measure they have in stock. Could even write a note under the product with it's weight in the pic with the ruler or coin or whatever.
-
I don't think such a guide would be a good idea, considering that the same substance from two different sources can have a completely different consistency (light and fluffy vs. dense and chunky), and therefore still render this sort of eyeballing inaccurate and dangerous.
Just buy the damn scale. Hell, I got my milligram scale for $20 two years ago and it still works to this day. Sure, it's not the most accurate thing, but for the substances I'm working with (all have dosages well above 10 mg), it works excellently, and I've never had anything close to an accidental OD. If you're working with more sensitive substances, then you might have to take the plunge and buy a much higher quality scale, which will be quite expensive, but worth it for your own safety.
I think you all have great intentions, but ultimately this just sounds dangerous. Even if everything is crushed into a fine powder, you just can't be certain what the actual density of the material you're dealing with is, due to the volume of air trapped in the solid.
This will not "reduce harm". Instead, it will make people more secure with their decision to not use a scale. If you want to reduce actual overdoses, we need to actively be putting it out there that eyeballing is NEVER a safe choice, even when working with familiar substances that you've already weighed.
If you have any questions for me, feel free to drop me one. I just want you all to be safe, and eyeballing (even with a guide) is NOT a safe practice.
-
I have to agree with junjo. I love how much effort you people are willing to put towards the safety of others but at the end of the day, eyeballing is unreliable and dangerous, no matter how much data and/or experience you have :(
-
no idea why i even try
-
no idea why i even try
No disrespect for you dude at all.
I've been disrespected plenty on here for trying to be a contributor, and I know that feeling, but right now it's really a matter of safety we're dealing with.
Eyeballing is never a safe practice, and I get your intentions, but there's really no way to make it "safe"
Drugs are active by mass, not volume, as we're all aware.
Even if you were able to take perfect measurements of the volume of a certain drug, it doesn't change the fact the same distributor could get a new batch of said drug that ends up twice as coarse as the previous one, giving it a much smaller apparent volume, leading to ODs and all sorts of nastiness for those who eyeball it.
I'm trying to be constructive here, not shoot you down.
Sorry if I offended you in any way, but sometimes you just gotta accept the fact that something that sounds like a good idea based on your intuition may end up being not-so-safe in practice.
I would like to have some mature discussion arise from this, rather than the "no idea why i even try" nonsense.
-
Alright Anonypunk, I was trying to be respectful earlier and facilitate discussion.
Instead, you remain passive aggressive and dump negative karma on me, like many other of the losers I've met here who can't hold an argument, and instead think that a magical "downvote" will solve their problems.
I'm done being nice about things.
Here's the truth:
Your idea is AWFUL.
You're going to end up killing more people than you'll help.
Eyeballing and your suggested "guide" are both ideas that are beyond stupid.
For people other than Anonypunk who may believe this "guide" is a good idea
IT ISN'T.
DON'T ENCOURAGE THIS.
Just make the god damn $20-50 investment in a scale
Saving yourself from a potential OD is worth the cost of a couple stamps of H or a capsule or two of molly.
TLDR; It is dangerous, stupid, irrational and irresponsible to believe that there's such thing as "safe eyeballing"
Making a guide for this shit is going to cost more lives than it will save.
And for you Anonypunk, man the fuck up and realize that your idea is shit.
There, I said it.
Bombard me with all the negative karma you want.
I'll gladly take a bunch of internet "downvotes"
It's better than having people be ill-informed and put themselves at risk because of your own stupidity and lack of accountability.
-
I totally agree with the above.
People are generally just very, very, bad at eyeballing amounts of anything.
This has nothing to do with drug use or difficult quantities at all. If you ask some random person how much a 'standard' sugar cube weighs, you get answers all over the place.
In fact, lets make a bit of a challenge out of that: without googling or other research, how much do you think a normal sugar cube weighs? Don't cheat and investigate, just put your first guess as an answer!
-
In fact, lets make a bit of a challenge out of that: without googling or other research, how much do you think a normal sugar cube weighs? Don't cheat and investigate, just put your first guess as an answer!
I'll have a crack at this.
5 grams.
-
I totally agree with the above.
People are generally just very, very, bad at eyeballing amounts of anything.
This has nothing to do with drug use or difficult quantities at all. If you ask some random person how much a 'standard' sugar cube weighs, you get answers all over the place.
In fact, lets make a bit of a challenge out of that: without googling or other research, how much do you think a normal sugar cube weighs? Don't cheat and investigate, just put your first guess as an answer!
Ooh, i'm gonna go with 3-4 grams. but if i have to be precise, i'll say 3.75 g. Also, this thread seems to have been killing my karma quite a bit.
Do you know if the same user can continuously give you bad karma every day or so?
-
Do you know if the same user can continuously give you bad karma every day or so?
Every 72 hours he could. But how cares about fucking karma? Really?
-
Indeed - negative karma means either that someone does not agree with you, or that you are talking shit. Perhaps i do a fair bit of the latter, i have no clue really.
Anyone else venture to guess how many grams a normal cube of sugar weighs?
-
Do you know if the same user can continuously give you bad karma every day or so?
Every 72 hours he could. But how cares about fucking karma? Really?
I don't really care any more at this point either, I was just curious.
I personally hate "upvote/downvote" systems, so to speak, as they encourage a hive-mind mentality through fear of losing imaginary internet reputation points.
In addition, losers like that guy will use "downvoting" somebody's opinion as an alternative to intelligent discussion.
This, though, is a topic for another thread.
However, since OP has stopped responding, I guess we can call this thread dead for all intents and purposes.
-
+1 Anonypunk for the idea and write-up. I'm in the "just buy some" category as I've invested in multiples and I've used some that were less than 30 that went to .001. Obviously there is an error margin to be respected but if you're careful even ones that cheap can get you some reliable numbers to work with in the +- 5mg range.
That said, I agree that there are some that just will not bother with scale safety or may be in a position where they don't/can't use scales (party, sudden breakdown of scales, rush, out of town, etc, etc) so I think some scale pictures of finely crushed drugs presented in a variety of weights both in piles on scales and then set up into lines of different lengths/thickness so there are plenty of reference points for others to use.
I'd be happy to present some pictures of some different products.
Cheers,
Snoopish
-
...so I think some scale pictures of finely crushed drugs presented in a variety of weights both in piles on scales and then set up into lines of different lengths/thickness so there are plenty of reference points for others to use.
I'd be happy to present some pictures of some different products...
Did you read the rest of this thread? Did you see the arguments on why this is a dangerous idea that will not work? Your "finely crushed drugs" will not have the same density as other people's drugs. Such a service is in fact a disservice as it will make people confident in a dose when they should not be confident.
This is a non-starter and any such guide only get people in trouble.
Rule #1 in drug safety, know what you are taking. Rule #2, know how much. FFS folks, what if you have some sort of medical problem and can't explain to the doctor what you have eaten?
Drugs are really fun, but know what you are taking. Scales are cheap now and there is no excuse for measuring something active by mass using volume.
-
...so I think some scale pictures of finely crushed drugs presented in a variety of weights both in piles on scales and then set up into lines of different lengths/thickness so there are plenty of reference points for others to use.
I'd be happy to present some pictures of some different products...
Did you read the rest of this thread? Did you see the arguments on why this is a dangerous idea that will not work? Your "finely crushed drugs" will not have the same density as other people's drugs. Such a service is in fact a disservice as it will make people confident in a dose when they should not be confident.
This is a non-starter and any such guide only get people in trouble.
Rule #1 in drug safety, know what you are taking. Rule #2, know how much. FFS folks, what if you have some sort of medical problem and can't explain to the doctor what you have eaten?
Drugs are really fun, but know what you are taking. Scales are cheap now and there is no excuse for measuring something active by mass using volume.
Yes I read it, did you read my response: you will always have those folks who are going to be careless. They might, however, check out a picture: The density will be different but that's why an average from multiple pictures/sources would be optimal. Those who aren't going to bother weighing might at least benefit from a more accurate ballpark than "eyeball". You think "eyeballers" are any less confident because they don't have reference tables? They size up lines according to what they've taken before (a practice far worse than the disservice of giving users baseline sizes)
I don't know why you come across as trying to convince me. I weigh compulsively. I don't think having pictures available would discourage people from buying scales because "they can just check out the pictures", either they will have scales and the pictures or only supplemental or they won't and the pictures are the only reference they have. Regardless, you've solidified your point. This isn't an endeavor I'd look into as a personal project so I'll move on.
Cheers,
Snoopish
-
I just wanted to say that I am guilty of this, although I am getting better scales, right now mine are only accurate to about .25g, so I use them for MDMA, but I under dosed myself the other day because I just filled a huge cap 1/4x3 full of MDMA powder from the bottom of the bag(like 140mg each). It turns out most of the MDMA was in 1 400mg cap, and 2x125mg caps, so two of us only did 350mg, when we intended to do 400, still I'm glad I had enough sense not to drop the 400mg cap, I'm going to make 2 caps out of it for a total of 4 caps, 2 200 and 2 120, that way we won't do more than 360 each. It was a slow night, we're taking a break we did MDA 2 weeks before, and I think it ruined it along with the lower dose, we usually split at least half a G if not more.
-
I just wanted to say that I am guilty of this, although I am getting better scales, right now mine are only accurate to about .25g, so I use them for MDMA, but I under dosed myself the other day because I just filled a huge cap 1/4x3 full of MDMA powder from the bottom of the bag(like 140mg each). It turns out most of the MDMA was in 1 400mg cap, and 2x125mg caps, so two of us only did 350mg, when we intended to do 400, still I'm glad I had enough sense not to drop the 400mg cap, I'm going to make 2 caps out of it for a total of 4 caps, 2 200 and 2 120, that way we won't do more than 360 each. It was a slow night, we're taking a break we did MDA 2 weeks before, and I think it ruined it along with the lower dose, we usually split at least half a G if not more.
That's...an ungodly amount, man. I'm sure if you're on here you're probably getting good stuff but if you've had to scale to those size doses I'd encourage you to take an extended break combined with some supplements, vitamins, and a healthy diet because I'm worried that could really fuck up your chemistry in the long run.
Cheers,
Snoopish
-
Alright Anonypunk, I was trying to be respectful earlier and facilitate discussion.
Instead, you remain passive aggressive and dump negative karma on me, like many other of the losers I've met here who can't hold an argument, and instead think that a magical "downvote" will solve their problems.
I'm done being nice about things.
Here's the truth:
Your idea is AWFUL.
You're going to end up killing more people than you'll help.
Eyeballing and your suggested "guide" are both ideas that are beyond stupid.
For people other than Anonypunk who may believe this "guide" is a good idea
IT ISN'T.
DON'T ENCOURAGE THIS.
Just make the god damn $20-50 investment in a scale
Saving yourself from a potential OD is worth the cost of a couple stamps of H or a capsule or two of molly.
TLDR; It is dangerous, stupid, irrational and irresponsible to believe that there's such thing as "safe eyeballing"
Making a guide for this shit is going to cost more lives than it will save.
And for you Anonypunk, man the fuck up and realize that your idea is shit.
There, I said it.
Bombard me with all the negative karma you want.
I'll gladly take a bunch of internet "downvotes"
It's better than having people be ill-informed and put themselves at risk because of your own stupidity and lack of accountability.
I'm starting this off with a big ****** FUCK YOU ASSHOLE! ******
I never gave you negative karma for one. Why would I do that to you for having a discussion and stating how you feel? I don't care if you agree with me or not but to assume I'd go out of my way to try and somehow subversively make your profile less credible is childish. Do you think I really care that much about you? As if you are soooo important that my whole world is falling apart. Hahaha.
"Oh No! What should I do? Someone is pointing out valid points that don't agree with mine...and I just can't handle the reality of the situation. So Nah! There's negative karma for you! That'll show YOU!"
hahaha!
Smoke a bowl man! None of this worth getting THAT worked up over. I wasn't rude to you at all and although I don't expect you to act a certain way I do appreciate being spoken to with the same level of common courtesy you'd address anyone. I'll say it again. I never gave you negative karma.
You actually appear to be pretty good at providing your own negative karma. On a first world scale. Speaking of scales what was I going to say?
***I know this isn't safe to do people! Remember the title to the post (that I wrote)? The idea isn't stupid and irresponsible nor would it encourage others to forgo the use of scales to make a decision of proper dosing amounts. It would be supplemental in nature and that could be clearly written at the top. (see)
It's quite fine to think that the idea is dumb but I still refuse to believe that it would encourage others to take this as their one and only guide to measure their doses. Hell even the little scoop spoons I have are pretty accurate and they were cheap as fuck. Just like my scales.
There is basically nothing else for me to say regarding this whole thing and I never intended for anyone to get bent out of shape. If it offends you and you think that the idea is stupid that's okay too. You can just as easily start a thread flaming on me for giving a shit and spreading stupid ideas that will eventually hurt the community. That won't make it true in any way but if it makes you feel better then go ahead.
Will those that want to contribute PM me so I can help with whatever I can help with? I wish I could make a private thread but notepad and copying and pasting into messages here can work just as well. I'll go ahead and type out a simple format and Intro and let anyone else to add and contribute to it as they'd like. I don't think this is something that has to be force fed to people. Just something that could be available for those who don't have access to what they need at the moment. It would be better than nothing...especially with some of the RC's that are and have been hurting so many kids.
-
Do you know if the same user can continuously give you bad karma every day or so?
Every 72 hours he could. But how cares about fucking karma? Really?
I don't really care any more at this point either, I was just curious.
I personally hate "upvote/downvote" systems, so to speak, as they encourage a hive-mind mentality through fear of losing imaginary internet reputation points.
In addition, losers like that guy will use "downvoting" somebody's opinion as an alternative to intelligent discussion.
This, though, is a topic for another thread.
However, since OP has stopped responding, I guess we can call this thread dead for all intents and purposes.
Never stopped responding. I thought the idea was just fucking dead so I didn't come back to thread since a few people said it would be more detrimental then beneficial. I still don't think it would and therefore will continue to go on with the idea like I was before.
-
This definitely sounds like it could help, but honestly, you can buy a mg scale off amazon for like $21, $30 with 2 day shipping. I know it's not the greatest possible scale, and you can't get that accurate of a reading on some RC's, but it helps a lot.
-
@Anonypunk: Glad to hear you're still on board with this. I didn't even check names and assumed I got a reply from the thread-starter. I'll PM you.
@CannabisCrusader: This is more or less my sentiment but the fact that people still don't use scales says to me that it's not an issue of cost but an issue of apathy. Some people just don't care that much (which is rather scary). It's for that reason that I like anonypunk's idea: obviously such a thread would encourage scale usage and emphasize just how unreliable eyeballin even with reference photos can be but it'd be better than nothing.
Cheers,
Snoopish
-
Sorry that was for CannabisCrusader:
I know that. Other people know that. People still don't do it. Think of it as supplemental and that may help you see the point.
@ Snoopish. Thanks man! I'm glad that you see my point. I don't need validation from others to go ahead with it but was hoping that everyone wouldn't be playing devils advocate.
I see both sides of this equally well so I get what others are saying. The opposing viewpoint just isn't convincing enough for me to say that it wouldn't help at all you know? I know it's not possible but I'd hate to see the actual amount of kids out there doing incorrect amounts and eyeballing their doses every damn day.