Silk Road forums
Discussion => Drug safety => Topic started by: ZenAndTheArt on August 02, 2012, 08:59 pm
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Firstly, it is totally down to an individual what he/she puts into their body. But, as responsible adults we should be making informed decisions about the drugs we take. This is why I'm posting this in the drug safety, harm reduction thread.
NO-ONE KNOWS THE LONG TERM SIDE EFFECTS OF TAKING ANY RESEARCH CHEMICAL (if there are any).
I girl I know who lives near me started taking K a few years ago. She really loved the stuff and got bang into it. No-one told her when she started taking K that five years down the line she'd be wearing adult nappys (diapers) and would be smelling of stale piss all day! No-one told her because no-one knew back then that this was a possible side effect of long term K abuse! It's too late now for her.
Although they are called research chemicals, ironically there has been next to no research done on these chemicals. The legal ones can't be sold for human consumption because they'd have to past the food and drugs safety tests to get certified safe for human consumption, which is an expensive and long procedure. That's why they are sold as other things like incense and have warning labels on them saying "not for human consumption". Quiet rightly, one could say this is true of all illegal drugs, but the "traditional" drugs have been around for decades, some of them for centuries. They have gone through their periods when the first users were guinea pigs, they are (for all intents and purposes) tried and tested. Their side effects, good and bad, short and long term, are well known. Research has been done on them both officially and unofficially. For harm reduction a responsible person could do some reading on Erowid and draw their own conclusions. Ultimately making an informed decision if they wish to take them, or not.
Lastly, you'll see irresponsible "drug pushers" on Silk Roads forums, who'll harp on about their latest batch they've whipped up fresh from the shed. They'll wax lyrical about the purity of their research chemicals and how they've got "big shiny crystals just how you like it". No where on their vendors page will they mention the untried and tested nature of the chemical they're willing to sell you. They don't know if you'll be pissing yourself all day long five years down the road. As long as you pay your money they don't give two shits. "Everyone's entitled to do what they want with their own bodies" they'll say. I'm not arguing with that. But as long as we agree that harm reduction is a good practice, and that as part of a community the spread of such information and discussions are for the general good. I will say again, as responsible adults an informed decision is the best option we have for are own harm reduction. If you really don't care about what you put in your body and the results to your health then more power to you, it's not my concern at the end of the day. I'm just trying to balance out some of what these drug pushers are advocating, by stating something they should be saying themselves on their own vendor page.
Thanks for listening (if you got this far) to my rant. I'll shut up now :-X. It's up to you what you do with your life. Be safe, be lucky and be happy.
Peace mutherfunkers ;D
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Thank you. I would give you +1 if I could. I'm glad that this was said, though it seems like it should be obvious.
Happy travels!
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I agree to some extent. I tend to veer away from the rc's had some bad times with 2ce. Ketamines not really in the same league though as its been used on children and the elderly in medicine since 1962.
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I agree to some extent. I tend to veer away from the rc's had some bad times with 2ce. Ketamines not really in the same league though as its been used on children and the elderly in medicine since 1962.
Has it? I didn't know that. I know it's been used in veterinary and equestrian practices for quiet some time now. In the UK it's only got really big in the "drug scene" since the mid nineties (some may argue that it was earlier). Back then you could get it in liquid form (when buying in bulk), some of it we called "Gold Top" (after the milk), and it was said that you could microwave it to get the pure powder form (is that true?). Personally, I really liked K. But, I was much younger then and luckily I didn't go down the road of long term daily abuse (which that girl I mentioned did) as no-one said anything to me about the long term side effects and I was young and naive at the time.
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Well, the short version of the story is:
"Any abuse is bad"
And that goes for anything in life, not just RCs, not just drugs, but any-fucking-thing.
Everything in moderation, says the wise man, who is not me.
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Well, the short version of the story is:
"Any abuse is bad"
And that goes for anything in life, not just RCs, not just drugs, but any-fucking-thing.
Everything in moderation, says the wise man, who is not me.
No! The short version is "We don't know if RCs are bad or not, and do you want to be the first to find out?".
I felt I had to start this thread because of certain drug pushers on Silk Road who put their profits before their customers health.
In the end, if you want to sniff glue to get high, I'm not trying to stop you (I'm not comparing RCs to sniffing glue, it's just an example)!
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My friend and I had this discussion and we're actually pretty concerned on the safety of NBOMes. They feel extremely safe to the body but on higher doses you start experiencing vasoconstriction and your brain feels pretty fried in general.
I really wish there was real research done on new drugs that are coming out. I would go into a rant about the drug war, safe drugs like LSD... but I think we all know this shit by now.
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I completely agree regarding RCs, but IMHO ketamine is a well known medical anesthetic, not an RC. You're only going to see bladder issues if you really abuse the shit out of the drug.
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I agree to some extent. I tend to veer away from the rc's had some bad times with 2ce. Ketamines not really in the same league though as its been used on children and the elderly in medicine since 1962.
Has it? I didn't know that. I know it's been used in veterinary and equestrian practices for quiet some time now. In the UK it's only got really big in the "drug scene" since the mid nineties (some may argue that it was earlier). Back then you could get it in liquid form (when buying in bulk), some of it we called "Gold Top" (after the milk), and it was said that you could microwave it to get the pure powder form (is that true?). Personally, I really liked K. But, I was much younger then and luckily I didn't go down the road of long term daily abuse (which that girl I mentioned did) as no-one said anything to me about the long term side effects and I was young and naive at the time.
I just know if you put the liquid on a plate on top of a boiling pot then the liquid Evaps leaving you with the crystal. It was developed as a pcp alternative and did start with animals but was soon introduced to medical practice. All I meant is that ket's been around a while but it seems as though they missed the bladder issues when researching it. this bladder issue obviously comes from prolonged use, unlike in medicine where a single anaesthetic dose is given.
When considering the dangers of rc's MDMA is also one to consider. Early MDMA clubbers may still experience unexpected issues as it only really became prevalent in the late 80's.
Fuck it though you only live once, if I grow another few toes I'll let u guys know.
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Does anyone how sells RCs have anything to add on this subject. I'd be interested to know your thoughts.
My guess is they'd say "I provide a service and it's up to the customer if they want to use my service". Which is fair enough. But to me when someone is giving an unbalanced view of their product ("Wow, my new batch is really good!" etc.), without having any info on their vendor page about the uncertain health implications, they're putting their profit before their customers well-being. Which is the worst form of "drug pusher" there is, and gives others a bad name.
A simple warning, is that too much to ask? I have seen responsible vendors that do just that, or put a link to Erowid (if it's one of the better known about drugs). More power to such vendors!
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I completely agree regarding RCs, but IMHO ketamine is a well known medical anesthetic, not an RC. You're only going to see bladder issues if you really abuse the shit out of the drug.
Your right. I should have made it clear, I'm not putting K in the same class as RCs. I was using it as an example of a newish drug that has turned out to have long term side effects that weren't generally known at the time it became really big. I'm just basing that from my own experience, maybe other people in the mid-nineties knew more about it than the people I knew did.
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listening and 1+ for OP
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I am not an RC fan, but the few RC vendors I have seen clearly state on their profile that the substances sold are not for human consumption.
No Kidding. 5 years abusing anything (other then maybe weed) will have side effects.
Heroin is not a RC ....go do that for 5 years, see if shitting yourself isnt the HIGHLIGHT of your day.
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I completely agree regarding RCs, but IMHO ketamine is a well known medical anesthetic, not an RC. You're only going to see bladder issues if you really abuse the shit out of the drug.
Your right. I should have made it clear, I'm not putting K in the same class as RCs. I was using it as an example of a newish drug that has turned out to have long term side effects that weren't generally known at the time it became really big. I'm just basing that from my own experience, maybe other people in the mid-nineties knew more about it than the people I knew did.
That is true. Daily users didn't know what they were getting themselves into, at least for a while. Definitely not back in the 90s.
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Although they are called research chemicals, ironically there has been next to no research done on these chemicals. The legal ones can't be sold for human consumption because they'd have to past the food and drugs safety tests to get certified safe for human consumption, which is an expensive and long procedure.
Lastly, you'll see irresponsible "drug pushers" on Silk Roads forums, who'll harp on about their latest batch they've whipped up fresh from the shed. They'll wax lyrical about the purity of their research chemicals and how they've got "big shiny crystals just how you like it".
No and No.
RC are called research chemicals because they're for research. Not sure if trolling or.. Anyway, they are sold "not for human consumption" to avoid the prohibitions of the US Analog Act and others.
Secondly, RCs predominantly come from Asia and are manufactured in "professional" labs. This isn't to say there haven't been problems with the products.
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I am not an RC fan, but the few RC vendors I have seen clearly state on their profile that the substances sold are not for human consumption.
No Kidding. 5 years abusing anything (other then maybe weed) will have side effects.
Heroin is not a RC ....go do that for 5 years, see if shitting yourself isnt the HIGHLIGHT of your day.
I think you'll find that weed can have very serious mental side effects, for some people, if abused daily for five years or more. I personally know someone who blamed there weed use for triggering their schizophrenia. Heroin cause constipation, most heroin addicts would be happy to have a shit once a day rather than once a week! It's like you say, everything has potential to be abused.
Any RC vendor that does state that in their profile is a good example of how Silk Road can be the safest way to buy drugs. The fact we can talk about harm reduction topics and weed out bad vendors (in the Rumor Mill), again shows how safe buying drugs is on Silk Road compared to real life.
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Most people won't have a problem smoking on a daily basis for 5+ years as long as they smoke (or vape) in moderation and don't let weed take over their lives with the exception of weed careers. Anyone with a family history of schizophrenia or any other sign of it shouldn't consume marijuana or use any mind altering substances for that matter. Then again, if you're going to develop schizophrenia, it's inevitable. Smoking weed just makes it surface earlier. On the flip side, if you are past your mid twenties and have been smoking bud and doing other drugs since you were a teenager, I guess you can say there's a very good chance you are clear of the disorder.
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Although they are called research chemicals, ironically there has been next to no research done on these chemicals. The legal ones can't be sold for human consumption because they'd have to past the food and drugs safety tests to get certified safe for human consumption, which is an expensive and long procedure.
Lastly, you'll see irresponsible "drug pushers" on Silk Roads forums, who'll harp on about their latest batch they've whipped up fresh from the shed. They'll wax lyrical about the purity of their research chemicals and how they've got "big shiny crystals just how you like it".
No and No.
RC are RCs because they're for research. Not sure if trolling or.. Anyway, the are sold "not for human consumption" to avoid the prohibitions of the US Analog Act.
Secondly, RCs predominantly come from Asia and are manufactured in "professional" labs. This isn't to say there haven't been problems with the products.
Reread the quote, on your first point I think you find we are saying the same thing. On your second point, yes most come from china, but there are vendors that make it themself (or have chemists working for them).
>:( Damn it! These vendors are the worst! I just double checked one, who makes it himself, he goes on about the purity etc. He mentions nothing about the safety of the drug he's selling. >:(
Maybe, I shouldn't care so much, but I personally know the harm drug abuse can do (I mentioned two people I know above and could start a whole thread on other people I know). I know that I DO care if other people are harmed from the lack of knowledge surrounding drugs and yes I believe it is a side effect of the war on drugs (don't get me started). Also, I can't stand people who go around stepping on others to get what they want, in this case money. I would call them out, but that's not what I'm about, just want to see if they answer me here or if they change their listing. I've said enough now. :-X
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Most people won't have a problem smoking on a daily basis for 5+ years as long as they smoke (or vape) in moderation and don't let weed take over their lives with the exception of weed careers. Anyone with a family history of schizophrenia or any other sign of it shouldn't consume marijuana or use any mind altering substances for that matter. Then again, if you're going to develop schizophrenia, it's inevitable. Smoking weed just makes it surface earlier. On the flip side, if you are past your mid twenties and have been smoking bud and doing other drugs since you were a teenager, I guess you can say there's a very good chance you are clear of the disorder.
Totally agree with everything your saying, except maybe that "if you're going to develop schizophrenia, it's inevitable".
Although I'm no expert on mental illness. I do believe, and my friends tend to agree, that we didn't notice how bad weed was effecting us until we had stopped for a few months. Side effects like constant paranoia, feeling socially acward and loss of confidense (and lost of spelling ability).
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Yeah, some of my friends experienced similar problems from smoking all day, every day. They eventually stopped and became weekend warrior, or quit entirely. I'm pretty sure that's not schizophrenia though, just some kind of sleep deprivation (being high 24/7 impacts REM sleep) or a simple overload of cannibinoids. When I smoke too often, I also get lethargic and don't want to go out. Keep going, and you stop getting high entirely and the speed-like wiredness and paranoia kicks in. That's when it's time for a break so you can actually enjoy the herb again.
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No! The short version is "We don't know if RCs are bad or not, and do you want to be the first to find out?".
I felt I had to start this thread because of certain drug pushers on Silk Road who put their profits before their customers health.
In the end, if you want to sniff glue to get high, I'm not trying to stop you (I'm not comparing RCs to sniffing glue, it's just an example)!
I completely agree with you. However, I strongly believe that it's the user's responsibility to inform himself. With the amount of information the internet provides, it would be stupid not to get informed. And the current information on RC's is that no or little research has been conducted on X or Z, and that human consumption is at the human in question's own risks.
I like to believe that most people here are well aware of what they are ordering, in terms of risk. If somebody would buy a possibly deadly snake as a pet, and the snake would bite his housemate, would the snake dealer have to be blamed for it ?
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^I agree. How does someone order something that, according to common sense, can seriously harm or kill you if not taken properly, then put it in their bodies? Same goes for kids that OD on painkillers. How the fuck do you swallow 160mg of oxycodone knowing that people die from OD'ing all the time? That's like jumping off a bridge and into some water, cause you know, it's water and you might live.
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Yeah, some of my friends experienced similar problems from smoking all day, every day. They eventually stopped and became weekend warrior, or quit entirely. I'm pretty sure that's not schizophrenia though, just some kind of sleep deprivation (being high 24/7 impacts REM sleep) or a simple overload of cannibinoids. When I smoke too often, I also get lethargic and don't want to go out. Keep going, and you stop getting high entirely and the speed-like wiredness and paranoia kicks in. That's when it's time for a break so you can actually enjoy the herb again.
The guy with schizophrenia was a separate case from me and the rest of my friends. It was medically diagnosed. Sad really. I think whoever said; he must of had it lurking inside him and it was triggered by weed and other factors, was right. I think he is still suffering now, ten years later.
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I was dosed with an RC posed as LSD and had a soulless experience, couldnt use my imagination for a month. Seriously, i LOST THE ABILITY TO USE MY FUCKING IMAGINATION.
RC's ARE SHIT. You wanna be a labrat and fuck yourself up for life to try some new chem some chink chemist cooked up, be my guest, when you start lying to people to make a fucking buck you need to given a prompt LD50 IV.
if DPR had any moral integrity he'd banhammer anyone who couldnt prove the legitimacy of their product.
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I was dosed with an RC posed as LSD
I'm concerned about this recent epidemic i'm hearing that people are selling 25i as LSD to make better profits. I really hope any vendors doing this are weeded out and crucified for potentially endangering people's health by lying to them about what they're selling.
Sure it may have similar effects as LSD but it is an untested RC with no real solid information on long term effects. Please tell me this isn't as common as it's being hyped up to be, because I'd prefer knowing that I'm using the product I was sold.
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People idiotic enough to ingest something without prior research deserve the worst, it's just survival of the fittest. The less gullible humans breeding the better. >:(
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Side effects like constant paranoia, feeling socially acward and loss of confidense (and lost of spelling ability)
Never have those problems when smoking, in fact I'm -less- socially awkward when I smoke, I become more friendly and talkative if anything. Paranoia comes from constantly worrying about police and feds, and if you consume it responsibly in a safe environment you don't experience those side effects.
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I've had pretty good experience with NBOMes and I am very close to completing the entire 2C family without any bad experiences; I think the key to safe use, as with any drug, is moderation. Obviously one can always have a bad trip or get something that's laced with something else, but we take that risk with pretty much every drug.
Just be careful with drugs that you or others don't know much about, use low doses when starting, have a sitter for certain drugs, and use the more dangerous or lesser known drugs in moderation until we know more about them.
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Side effects like constant paranoia, feeling socially acward and loss of confidense (and lost of spelling ability)
Never have those problems when smoking, in fact I'm -less- socially awkward when I smoke, I become more friendly and talkative if anything. Paranoia comes from constantly worrying about police and feds, and if you consume it responsibly in a safe environment you don't experience those side effects.
I've waved hello to an officer, joint in hand, and no fucks were given that day. This leads me to believe that the paranoia, loss of confidence, blah, blah, et cetera originate from a deeply rooted subconscious fear caused by anti-drug influences during their youth. It probably isn't but the fuck do I care? ???
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Side effects like constant paranoia, feeling socially acward and loss of confidense (and lost of spelling ability)
Never have those problems when smoking, in fact I'm -less- socially awkward when I smoke, I become more friendly and talkative if anything. Paranoia comes from constantly worrying about police and feds, and if you consume it responsibly in a safe environment you don't experience those side effects.
I've waved hello to an officer, joint in hand, and no fucks were given that day. This leads me to believe that the paranoia, loss of confidence, blah, blah, et cetera originate from deeply rooted subconscious fear originating from anti-drug influences during their youth. It probably isn't but the fuck do I care? ???
Well cant say I've never talked to an officer high, I was just saying what it probably is for most people, along with the anti-drug influences. I see nothing wrong with people consuming drugs /responsibly/
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Most people won't have a problem smoking on a daily basis for 5+ years as long as they smoke (or vape) in moderation and don't let weed take over their lives with the exception of weed careers. Anyone with a family history of schizophrenia or any other sign of it shouldn't consume marijuana or use any mind altering substances for that matter. Then again, if you're going to develop schizophrenia, it's inevitable. Smoking weed just makes it surface earlier. On the flip side, if you are past your mid twenties and have been smoking bud and doing other drugs since you were a teenager, I guess you can say there's a very good chance you are clear of the disorder.
Totally agree with everything your saying, except maybe that "if you're going to develop schizophrenia, it's inevitable".
Although I'm no expert on mental illness. I do believe, and my friends tend to agree, that we didn't notice how bad weed was effecting us until we had stopped for a few months. Side effects like constant paranoia, feeling socially acward and loss of confidense (and lost of spelling ability).
Can agree with the bottom portion of this text. When i smoke a shitload for long periods of time i feel a bit disconnected from words but when i have inspirational moments they are very creative times. Then again a friend who is always hyper ( i call it a natural cocaine high) can smoke all day every day with no problem and do all his school work or anything else in front of hem
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People idiotic enough to ingest something without prior research deserve the worst, it's just survival of the fittest. The less gullible humans breeding the better. >:(
What sort of research do you before you start sucking dick?
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People idiotic enough to ingest something without prior research deserve the worst, it's just survival of the fittest. The less gullible humans breeding the better. >:(
What sort of research do you before you start sucking dick?
Why do you ask? I thought it came natural for people like you? ???
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People idiotic enough to ingest something without prior research deserve the worst, it's just survival of the fittest. The less gullible humans breeding the better. >:(
What sort of research do you before you start sucking dick?
Why do you ask? I thought it came natural for people like you? ???
Cause only a cocksucker would be dumb enough to answer a question with a question.
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oh my my. Behave scalliwags!
I do see the point that the OP is making, however, I would like to think that people who have made it to SR are generally capable of doing their own internet research and coming to a somewhat informed decision of the magnitude of risk they're willing to take.
Some people are a little worried about the NBOME drugs, and that's fair enough. However, if I read a few hundred positive trip reports where side-effects are fairly minor, then that to me is my informed decision made. Everyone just has different safety criteria to meet before they're comfortable trying an unresearched drug.
Funny you mention ketamine and responsible vendors.
3Jane stands out as the most responsible vendor I know of on SR. This is because she actually does give a warning about set and setting with her LSD, and also gives a warning about the increased neurotoxicity of MDA over MDMA.
Just in the last week she has stated on her vendor page that she is no longer doing ketamine because of the addictive potential and firsthand experiences she's had with friends in relation to that. Now that's one responsible vendor if ever I saw one!
My personal opinion is that everyone should be responsible for themselves, it shouldn't be up to the vendor to warn people about RC's.... though it's nice to see that some do care.
On another note, I would like to see cautionary sentences on super-potent untested NBOME powder. That stuff gets into some irresponsible kids/adults hands and it could be a terrible outcome for them, and for the rest of the drug taking community because it would get banned from all the media attention. Sounds like i'm slightly contradicting myself, so i'll put it this way: NBOME blotter = perhaps no warning needed, people should do their own research. NBOME powder = That shit should really have a warning, cause some people are just stupid.
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I don't even want to think about any long term effects of MXE. So lets close this topic while we're at it.......
MXE is wonderful!!!!!!!!
8) 8) 8) :P :P ;D ;D ;D
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Looking forward to trying Foxy's 25d/c and I very soon!!
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I don't even want to think about any long term effects of MXE. So lets close this topic while we're at it.......
MXE is wonderful!!!!!!!!
8) 8) 8) :P :P ;D ;D ;D
MXE is the King of all RCs period.
I mean it is made for what it does.. read the Interview from the chemist that synthesized it. Just a wonderful human made molecule but still scary if treated wrong like everything.....
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Research Chemicals are great, if you do your research.
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One of my worst experiences on drugs was an RC. Benzo Fury. Fuck me, it was weird. Not a pleasant experience at all. A very dirty drug with a nasty lingering effect.
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Firstly, it is totally down to an individual what he/she puts into their body. But, as responsible adults we should be making informed decisions about the drugs we take. This is why I'm posting this in the drug safety, harm reduction thread.
NO-ONE KNOWS THE LONG TERM SIDE EFFECTS OF TAKING ANY RESEARCH CHEMICAL (if there are any).
I girl I know who lives near me started taking K a few years ago. She really loved the stuff and got bang into it. No-one told her when she started taking K that five years down the line she'd be wearing adult nappys (diapers) and would be smelling of stale piss all day! No-one told her because no-one knew back then that this was a possible side effect of long term K abuse! It's too late now for her.
Although they are called research chemicals, ironically there has been next to no research done on these chemicals. The legal ones can't be sold for human consumption because they'd have to past the food and drugs safety tests to get certified safe for human consumption, which is an expensive and long procedure. That's why they are sold as other things like incense and have warning labels on them saying "not for human consumption". Quiet rightly, one could say this is true of all illegal drugs, but the "traditional" drugs have been around for decades, some of them for centuries. They have gone through their periods when the first users were guinea pigs, they are (for all intents and purposes) tried and tested. Their side effects, good and bad, short and long term, are well known. Research has been done on them both officially and unofficially. For harm reduction a responsible person could do some reading on Erowid and draw their own conclusions. Ultimately making an informed decision if they wish to take them, or not.
Lastly, you'll see irresponsible "drug pushers" on Silk Roads forums, who'll harp on about their latest batch they've whipped up fresh from the shed. They'll wax lyrical about the purity of their research chemicals and how they've got "big shiny crystals just how you like it". No where on their vendors page will they mention the untried and tested nature of the chemical they're willing to sell you. They don't know if you'll be pissing yourself all day long five years down the road. As long as you pay your money they don't give two shits. "Everyone's entitled to do what they want with their own bodies" they'll say. I'm not arguing with that. But as long as we agree that harm reduction is a good practice, and that as part of a community the spread of such information and discussions are for the general good. I will say again, as responsible adults an informed decision is the best option we have for are own harm reduction. If you really don't care about what you put in your body and the results to your health then more power to you, it's not my concern at the end of the day. I'm just trying to balance out some of what these drug pushers are advocating, by stating something they should be saying themselves on their own vendor page.
Thanks for listening (if you got this far) to my rant. I'll shut up now :-X. It's up to you what you do with your life. Be safe, be lucky and be happy.
Peace mutherfunkers ;D
+1 for your thread :) i agree. Its like, why go into these new RCs and shit when you can stick with the illegals that we already have so much knowledge on! psychadelic triangle for life!! (psilo/lsd/mesc) anyone wants any Mescaline HCL let me know :)
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i concur. RC's are pretty sketchy.
it kinda bothers me how much I like MXE. I'm kinda nervous that its too good to be true and will have some horrible side effect years down the road. i don't do it every day, but maybe 2-6 times a month. probably i should cut that out.
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Iv never been too interested in them, i go by the philosophy of if i cant spell its full name i wont take it (and being dyslexic that narrows it down alot) however since finding this site and the information available from genuine users it has turned my opinion of them, not enough to try them just to keep researching, i enjoy the feeling of psychedelics not just the high bit but the feeling of clarity the months after. I suppose as time goes on we will know the score with them, everything has to tried and tested that's how we evolve.
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Well cant say I've never talked to an officer high, I was just saying what it probably is for most people, along with the anti-drug influences. I see nothing wrong with people consuming drugs /responsibly/
Actually just had a nice chat with an officer last night feeling like a space cadet on my first 25c experience. He got called over to my buddys house on a noise complaint and I took it upon myself along with my friend that lived there to talk to him and make sure everything went over smooth. Was actually a rather humerus experience once all said and done, and any possible danger had passed.
Anyways, to get on topic, I too am rather paranoid of any research chemical, but I make damn sure to do a lot of research on any substance before ingesting it, and double that amount of research before I will even think of dosing any of my friends, or anyone else for that matter. I have only had experience with 2C, 25I, and now 25C. I really enjoy these chemicals, but it is a little unnerving not knowing what the possible long term effects could be. But really, it's hard to say what the long term of effect of using, or abusing, almost anything will be. And that is true for substances out side of drugs. Everyone is genetically different, and as previously stated an excess of nearly anything will in the end turn out to be detrimental.
I can say though that I feel much more comfortable buying research chemicals off of SR, as opposed to what a lot of people around the area I live do, which is buy some random RC from a sketchy corner store not knowing or caring what they are putting in their bodies, simply comfortable with the fact that it gets them high.
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I'm pretty sketch about ever trying RCs, the closest thing I've tried was 2c-b but supposedly it's been around the scene for a long time, and there's no real issues to report about it, even people OD'ing and frequently using seem to be okay, so I've passed it off as a viable drug for casual tripping.
The NBOMes worry me though. As tempting as it is because they're so cheap and plentiful, there's not enough known about them, and people have died now from direct drug effects, which is enough to be a red flag to me. It's not worth the risk. At least most common psychs even if you OD a bit you will be back to baseline eventually, like LSD, 2c-b, shrooms -- drugs that have an LD50 so high it's unrealistic to really hit by "accident". That's ignoring the concerns over the after-effects of NBOMe and the whole feeling of "frying your brain".
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Who has died from NBOME? I haven't heard of that.
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One of my worst experiences on drugs was an RC. Benzo Fury. Fuck me, it was weird. Not a pleasant experience at all. A very dirty drug with a nasty lingering effect.
Agreed.
Although I could've taken BZP. I'm not sure, but it was sold as Ecstasy. Ether way it wasn't a very nice experience.
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One of my worst experiences on drugs was an RC. Benzo Fury. Fuck me, it was weird. Not a pleasant experience at all. A very dirty drug with a nasty lingering effect.
Agreed.
Although I could've taken BZP. I'm not sure, but it was sold as Ecstasy. Ether way it wasn't a very nice experience.
"Benzo Fury" has a bad rep. I've had great experiences with 6-APB powder. I only did it once though. It's probably not something you want to do too often because the roll lasts quite a while.
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Yea i never take research chemicals anymore other than methylone. the potential side effects scare the shit out of me
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Just read through this thread and decided to throw my 2 cents in.
I have tripped on shrooms and acid quite a few times each now and smoked salvia a few times. I have also been smoking weed every day multiple times a day for years. When I first got onto SR (although I heard of RC's before I never put much thought into them until I got onto the road) RC's scared the shit out of me. I was sure with myself that I would never try them.
Then one night I was surfing the psychedelics section on the site while watching TV. I sat listening to a few commercials for prescription drugs where the side affects of the drugs were worse than the illness they are used to cure. Then finally a commercial for 1-800-BAD-DRUG came on regarding a drug that past clinical trials and through the FDA and was being prescribed to people that was causing sever problems in patients and even death in some cases (unfortunately I forget which drug they were talking about at the time). This really got me thinking about a lot of the things I put in my body. There are all sorts of preservatives and things just in the foods we eat and I know nothing about them and don't think twice about it. And when a doctor prescribes me a drug I usually just take it without a thought. Add to that there are recalls on all sorts of products all the time due to mistakes, poor quality control, etc. and there are so many ways to get fucked from "safe" legal products all the time.
That night I ordered some 25C-NBOMe and I've tripped on it twice so far. I also just ordered some 25i to try as well.
Now although I don't condone abuse of anything , not just drugs, I leave this completely up to the discretion of the individual user (and I know I go a bit overboard on my marijuana use). As has been said on this thread already everything in moderation. With that in mind I don't think a vendor on SR should be held responsible for making safety claims and shouldn't be responsible for any unknown side effects of said product as long as it is what they say it is.
If you feel that vendors of illicit drugs on SR should be held more accountable, then you should also be pushing for much more significant impact on the companies and their backers making legal products that are recalled and cause heath risks.
I'm sure others may not feel the same way as I do on the subject. If I can go and unknowingly take some recalled Advil and get sick or take something a doctor prescribed me and die, I just don't see much difference compared to trying some RC drugs on my own accord when I do more research on them than I do on any prescription or legal drug.
I don't intend on taking a ton of RC's in my lifetime and they will never beat acid and shrooms in my eye, but I decided adding a bit of variety to my life as a psychonaut is worth the risk.
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One of my worst experiences on drugs was an RC. Benzo Fury. Fuck me, it was weird. Not a pleasant experience at all. A very dirty drug with a nasty lingering effect.
Agreed.
Although I could've taken BZP. I'm not sure, but it was sold as Ecstasy. Ether way it wasn't a very nice experience.
"Benzo Fury" has a bad rep. I've had great experiences with 6-APB powder. I only did it once though. It's probably not something you want to do too often because the roll lasts quite a while.
Yeah 6apb also feels so good you know you're putting your brain under some stress. I love that drug.
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I would not sell RCs because there are far too many and people are using two or more as if this was coke, hash and alcohol, 3 drugs whose interactions we know and drugs which have stood the test of time.
As for the Asian labs being 'pro'. The same labs seem to have allowed posioned baby feed to be 'passed' so the safety levels in many parts of Asia are not the same as the West.
Mephedrone was an RC which blazed the way for many of the ones we see today. This chemical was legal and many people made a LOT of money. BBB turned down the chance to buy a few kilos of mephedrone and sell on clearnet, a loss of tens of thousands if not hundreds of UK pounds. There are people who took a lot of mephedrone who are now suffering health issues physical and mental.
Of course, MDMA was just a research chemical, but again, some people hurt themselves because they used way too much. People were using maybe 2 grams in a night or more. Some of these people, not all, do have issues from that abuse. There is drug use and drug abuse.
I am not opposed to RCs as it is better to experiment on humans who choose to be in the experiment. People get paid to go to drug tests, but now people pay to test new drugs.
In my view we have all the drugs we need growing naturally. We use science to isolate that particular chemical. I once smoked pure THC which was colouless, odourless but something was missing despite the fact we got wasted. We use sience to isolate heroin from the naturally growing opium poppy. This drug I avoid due to the well known addiction rates even with those who just used to see what it was like. Heroin can be an experiment which turns into a hobby which turns into a full blown addiction which sucks so the addicts tell me. So, we have all been warned about heroin. I AM tempted, who would not be? But its never going in my shopping basket.
As for RCs I will leave you with this intetresting peice.
25x-nbome series health issues. (C&P by BBB – source at end)
Research chemicals are inherently a "playing with fire" business. Essentially, the longer a chemical is out, the more research is done with it, the more we have some idea of its safety profile in humans. The 25x-nbome series is one of the newest families of psychedelics to enter the marketplace, and there has already been a lot of human use. The initial reports were all extremely positive, with some of these (25c and 25i in particular) being hailed as equals to LSD, or better than LSD, or the new LSD.
However as time has continued to pass and more and more individuals sample these chemicals in a wider variety of set, settings, and most importantly, combinations, there are emerging some red flags, and I would like this thread to be an open repository of information regarding those red flags.
Although the mechanism of action of these chemicals is not completely known, we can assume from their molecular structure and subjective effects that they act primarily on the serotonin system.
There are emerging two distinct areas of concern with these chemicals.
1) Lingering effects caused by strain on the serotonin system
2) Acute Vasoconstriction
What do these mean?
The first means that users are reporting that after using this substance, they have lingering effects that are extremely similar to what MDMA users would call "suicide tuesdays". That is, depression, irritability, heightened levels of arousal and anxiety, and memory impairment. It is very important to note that this area of concern is HUGELY affected by the users drug habits. If you have been tripping twice a week for the past 6 months, and then have a strong NBOME trip and feel like you're a little "stupid" for a few days or weeks afterwards, understand that a big part of that is the previous use of drugs. Your brain is a complex and delicate self-balancing ecology of chemicals, receptors, and electrical activity. You can think of it as a big lake that you require both for water and for swimming pleasure. If you continue to have big parties in the lake every weekend, with people pissing in it, litter being thrown into it, and it generally being abused, and then suddenly a few months down the line you think to yourself "gosh the water in here tastes like crap", well, that means that its time to stop having parties in it and let the natural state of nature come back (which it will, slowly, with sobriety).
The second means that while under the effects of this chemical, blood vessels are tightened, which effects blood flow in the body, particularly to extremities like hands, fingers, feet, toes, etc. This presents as pins and needles (potentially painful), blue/purple discoloration, and swelling. This condition has the potential to kill you. It is completely counter-indicated for people who have a history of cardiovascular issues. This effect seems to be most pronounced when combining NBOMEs with other chemicals.
Chemicals which are likely dangerous to combine with NBOME are:
MDMA
LSD
COCAINE
METHAMPHETAMINE
DOX
I have had several trips now on 25c+25i blotters, and on their own I do not notice any signs of vasoconstriction, although some people do. This is highly dose sensitive and has a lot to do with your individual body. I had one trip where I combined those same 25i+25c blotters with LSD, and I had the worst vasoconstriction I've ever experienced in my life. It really scared my during the trip. I did not write about it for a long time because at the time I could not be sure what happened. The trip was immensly intense, and even inside the peak I thought "holy shit, is this vasoconstriction? this is really bad" but afterwards I questioned my judgement, and thought perhaps I was just feeling something else, was tripping hard, had anxiety, was being a hypochondriac, etc. Since then I have read that others have experienced the same thing particularly when combining NBOME with LSD. The effects I felt were STRONG pins and needles throughout my body, a strange sensation in my heart, a little light-headedness, and a little tightness in my chest. It made me instantly listen to my body, and what I heard was "never ever do this combination again!"
My gf and I have both felt that since this trip our mental state is not 100% baseline. Important to note, this is after a summer of many trips, and this trip was one HELL of a trip. The exact same thing happened to me two summers ago. I took aMT every weekend for a few months, and then I dosed 50mg 4-aco-dmt and suffered several weeks of a battered serotonin system. So I am being careful here to point out that NBOME on its own is not likely to suddenly make you stupid, but rather it is demanding enough on your brain to exacerbate an already stressed chemical system if you trip often.
Please post your own stories so that we can add to the communal knowledge base of this very new class of psychedelics. They are incredible enough that they deserve to be rigorously examined as potential therapeutic agents, and the first step in that is to establish a safety profile for them.
Cheers
Taken from http://www.hipforums.com/newforums/ (they got it somewhere else)
C&P by wizzkid1990 a BBB team player for your harm reduction knowledge
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As long as vendors don't flat out lie and say their product cures cancer or something, then they're in the right. Should heroin vendors post "WARNING: Heroin abuse may lead to addiction and constipation"? Should MDMA vendors post "WARNING: MDMA abuse may lead to depression and mood swings"? If no, then why should RC vendors post "WARNING: RC's are not well documented"? We should all have the intelligence to do research on our own, and if we find that research incomplete, to pick a new substance. We don't need a "btw no one knows what the fuck this thing can do" warning because we could have gathered as much.
It's 2012. If you want to learn about something just open up your web browser and use your favorite search engine.
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At the end of the day, it's your body and it's up to you what you put into it, at some point every drug you know (in fact every food you know, every drink, anything that you put in you body) was at one point used as research, somebody had to try it, it all started somewhere.
I would have to say, the best way to cope with any drug, and not let it take you over and ruin your life, is to control it with MODERATION, do not abuse it for you'll only be abusing yourself in the end, your body is human after all, and can only take so much before the damage starts to kick in.
The worst drug in the world that causes the most deaths, addiction, and illness, is alcohol, it's one of the most profitable industry's in the world, and not enough is done to educate us about alcohols drawbacks, it's cheap, plentiful, acceptable, and legal.
Try a research chemical or don't, it's up to you, your choice, your consequence, your life, study about your chosen research chemical first (like you should do with any new drug), study the pros and cons, and decide if it's right for you to do it or not, a well informed choice is much better then a misinformed choice any day of the week.
Moderation - Is the key to a long and healthy life :)
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At the end of the day, it's your body and it's up to you what you put into it, at some point every drug you know (in fact every food you know, every drink, anything that you put in you body) was at one point used as research, somebody had to try it, it all started somewhere.
I would have to say, the best way to cope with any drug, and not let it take you over and ruin your life, is to control it with MODERATION, do not abuse it for you'll only be abusing yourself in the end, your body is human after all, and can only take so much before the damage starts to kick in.
The worst drug in the world that causes the most deaths, addiction, and illness, is alcohol, it's one of the most profitable industry's in the world, and not enough is done to educate us about alcohols drawbacks, it's cheap, plentiful, acceptable, and legal.
Try a research chemical or don't, it's up to you, your choice, your consequence, your life, study about your chosen research chemical first (like you should do with any new drug), study the pros and cons, and decide if it's right for you to do it or not, a well informed choice is much better then a misinformed choice any day of the week.
Moderation - Is the key to a long and healthy life :)
I really like what you posted. Karma +1. Also, tobacco causes a lot of health conerns. We could argue the same points when it comes to tobacco, but like PrincessHIGH said. At the end of the day, it's your body and your choice.
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Just read through this thread and decided to throw my 2 cents in.
I have tripped on shrooms and acid quite a few times each now and smoked salvia a few times. I have also been smoking weed every day multiple times a day for years. When I first got onto SR (although I heard of RC's before I never put much thought into them until I got onto the road) RC's scared the shit out of me. I was sure with myself that I would never try them.
Then one night I was surfing the psychedelics section on the site while watching TV. I sat listening to a few commercials for prescription drugs where the side affects of the drugs were worse than the illness they are used to cure. Then finally a commercial for 1-800-BAD-DRUG came on regarding a drug that past clinical trials and through the FDA and was being prescribed to people that was causing sever problems in patients and even death in some cases (unfortunately I forget which drug they were talking about at the time). This really got me thinking about a lot of the things I put in my body. There are all sorts of preservatives and things just in the foods we eat and I know nothing about them and don't think twice about it. And when a doctor prescribes me a drug I usually just take it without a thought. Add to that there are recalls on all sorts of products all the time due to mistakes, poor quality control, etc. and there are so many ways to get fucked from "safe" legal products all the time.
That night I ordered some 25C-NBOMe and I've tripped on it twice so far. I also just ordered some 25i to try as well.
Now although I don't condone abuse of anything , not just drugs, I leave this completely up to the discretion of the individual user (and I know I go a bit overboard on my marijuana use). As has been said on this thread already everything in moderation. With that in mind I don't think a vendor on SR should be held responsible for making safety claims and shouldn't be responsible for any unknown side effects of said product as long as it is what they say it is.
If you feel that vendors of illicit drugs on SR should be held more accountable, then you should also be pushing for much more significant impact on the companies and their backers making legal products that are recalled and cause heath risks.
I'm sure others may not feel the same way as I do on the subject. If I can go and unknowingly take some recalled Advil and get sick or take something a doctor prescribed me and die, I just don't see much difference compared to trying some RC drugs on my own accord when I do more research on them than I do on any prescription or legal drug.
I don't intend on taking a ton of RC's in my lifetime and they will never beat acid and shrooms in my eye, but I decided adding a bit of variety to my life as a psychonaut is worth the risk.
I agree completely. I am also waiting on some 25i nbome. Can't fucking wait to try it! It's my first time doing an NBOMe. From the reviews it sounds to be like one of the best psychedelic RC's. I have a feeling I will fall in love with the 25 hits I got and have to buy another 50-100 hits!
And, thanks to the OP for this thread. I seriously research any drug before I put it into my body, mainly on erowid. Even though that doesn't count as medical and how dangerous a chemical is, I understand that people have taken it short-term safely and as long as I'm not balls out abusing it more than once or twice a month, I'll more than likely be fine.
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The reality of the situation is that you can wait for all eternity for a research chemical to become an approved medication.
Something like 25-nbome is not likely to ever be an fda approved cure for any illness, since the documented side effect is tripping your balls off.I have personally worked on canadbiods that can be useful to limit the effects of a stroke. The results proved some substances to be very effective reducing the damage cause by a stoke.
This knowledge being buried is very unfortunate. If i had any good reason to believe i were to suffer a stroke in the next 24 hours or so, i would use cannabis to limit its effects without any doubt - and i'm not a fan of recreational use either.
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I've been smoking Mam-2201 about 1 month constant.
I have illusion all day. :S
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I second the advice against mixing NBOMe's with other vasoconstrictives. I ended a 3 day sesh of compulsively dosed IV ethylphenidate with 400mcg IV 25I-NBOMe and turned a really vivid purple colour except my heels which turned completely black :o
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Good info on NBOME's...
I've read almost all positive reviews for 25i and good reviews for 25c as well, but also few reports with the vasoconstriction from combining with other vasoconstrictors, so this seems to be the main concern to me. Getting everybody that gets their hands on 25i to make sure they don't take it with other drugs is beyond me unfortunately! Especially in the case of selling bulk 25i. The producers should print warning/instruction labels on the blotters haha. Is that possible? I mean I see highly intricate art on these blotters, perhaps a sentence or two may suffice ehh?
Cheers
-Seshat