Silk Road forums
Discussion => Silk Road discussion => Topic started by: Turkey for Breakfast on August 19, 2012, 05:27 pm
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I was thinking that a vendor who requires FE should never be entitled to feedback of 5/5 losing a point for the requirement. In my assertion 5/5 = perfect and a FE requirement is less than perfect. I personally will not deal with a vendor who requires FE as it opens me up to more risk than I am willing to take. But if those who do would begin offering only a max of 4/5 feedback to those vendors the community would be encouraged to not require FE on the seller side and the buyer side could more easily identify those vendors simply by their rating.
Anyone disagree?
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I think if a vendor deserves a 5/5, I'll give him a 5/5. Some people don't mind finalizing early, so obviously people will disagree with this, it's all personal preference. Do whatever you want, and let other people do whatever they want. If I'm required to FE but the product gets here fast with great shipping, is just as good or better than advertised, the seller had good communication, and no other issues were present, I'm giving a 5/5. Don't want to FE? Don't buy from vendors who require it. Want to give a 4/5 for someone who requires that you FE? I don't really care, go for it if that's what will make you happy. Personally I wouldn't give a 4/5 if I knew beforehand that they required FE. Respect the vendor's rules or find another one.
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Im thinking the rating system is set up to provide vendors evidence of the quality of there service, you cant predict this until you have the product in hand, FE is normally advertised on there profile so you know this is going to happen before you place the order. You know what your getting into before you buy, your not misled, thinking its something its not or poor service, iv finalized a few times for respected vendors but rated them on there service and product.
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Im thinking the rating system is set up to provide vendors evidence of the quality of there service, you cant predict this until you have the product in hand, FE is normally advertised on there profile so you know this is going to happen before you place the order. You know what your getting into before you buy, your not misled, thinking its something its not or poor service, iv finalized a few times for respected vendors but rated them on there service and product.
The feedback rating system is all we have. Presupposing that 5/5 means it was a flawless transaction. FE in my opinion would automatically be considered a flaw even if it is advertised ahead of time. Considering you cannot leave zero there are 3 points left on the scale to account for quality, packaging, and shipment speed/communication. If we changed the culture of the road so that vendors who require FE to expect 4/5 for doing so we could better influence the honest vendors to deal within the confines of escrow and even further isolate the scam artists.
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Im thinking the rating system is set up to provide vendors evidence of the quality of there service, you cant predict this until you have the product in hand, FE is normally advertised on there profile so you know this is going to happen before you place the order. You know what your getting into before you buy, your not misled, thinking its something its not or poor service, iv finalized a few times for respected vendors but rated them on there service and product.
The feedback rating system is all we have. Presupposing that 5/5 means it was a flawless transaction. FE in my opinion would automatically be considered a flaw even if it is advertised ahead of time. Considering you cannot leave zero there are 3 points left on the scale to account for quality, packaging, and shipment speed/communication. If we changed the culture of the road so that vendors who require FE to expect 4/5 for doing so we could better influence the honest vendors to deal within the confines of escrow and even further isolate the scam artists.
I require all my international customers to FE because I can't wait 12-16 business days for you to receive your orders and finalize, otherwise I won't have a good supply coming in and the demand will be too high. It's up to the buyer to agree to these terms, I have some customers saying they won't do it and I have some asking me to let them finalize early, it's up to you guys.
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Presupposing that 5/5 means it was a flawless transaction. FE in my opinion would automatically be considered a flaw even if it is advertised ahead of time. Considering you cannot leave zero there are 3 points left on the scale to account for quality, packaging, and shipment speed/communication. If we changed the culture of the road so that vendors who require FE to expect 4/5 for doing so we could better influence the honest vendors to deal within the confines of escrow and even further isolate the scam artists.
While I agree it would be nice if early finalization was looked down on as much as using Western Union or something, your position here is a bit ridiculous. If requiring FE is undesirable for you then don't deal with those vendors; your 4/5 rating isn't encouraging them to change their business. This is like if you purchased something advertised as 'shitty weed that I'm selling off cheap' and then giving the vendor a low rating because you did in fact receive shitty weed.
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I require all my international customers to FE because I can't wait 12-16 business days for you to receive your orders and finalize, otherwise I won't have a good supply coming in and the demand will be too high.
I hear you, but I am still of the opinion that FE opens your international customers up to undue risk whether you make them aware of it or not. Either way your offer is less good than someone making the same offer without requiring FE. If you cannot offer international customers the protection of the escrow system I feel you should expect a maximum of 4/5 from those customers. If it was standard in the SR culture to do feedback in this way, as I think it should be, you would either accept it, restrict customers to domestic only, or live within the confines of the escrow system.
If requiring FE is undesirable for you then don't deal with those vendors; your 4/5 rating isn't encouraging them to change their business.
If it was consistent and standard, vendors who required FE would be buried below non-FE vendors and it would absolutely encourage them to end this practice.
This is like if you purchased something advertised as 'shitty weed that I'm selling off cheap' and then giving the vendor a low rating because you did in fact receive shitty weed.
Completely untrue. Selling varying qualities of product is standard business. As long as the description is accurate and fairly priced there is no problem with the quality point in the feedback system to be "1 point for product as described." Requiring FE, when we have a good system of escrow to protect both sides, is simply putting all the risk in a transaction on the buyer. If someone buying from an FE vendor wanted to go back and change the feedback to 5/5 after an otherwise seamless transaction that'd make sense. Why should a vendor sit up around 100% feedback on dozens of 5/5 FE's?
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I require all my international customers to FE because I can't wait 12-16 business days for you to receive your orders and finalize, otherwise I won't have a good supply coming in and the demand will be too high.
I hear you, but I am still of the opinion that FE opens your international customers up to undue risk whether you make them aware of it or not. Either way your offer is less good than someone making the same offer without requiring FE. If you cannot offer international customers the protection of the escrow system I feel you should expect a maximum of 4/5 from those customers. If it was standard in the SR culture to do feedback in this way, as I think it should be, you would either accept it, restrict customers to domestic only, or live within the confines of the escrow system.
If requiring FE is undesirable for you then don't deal with those vendors; your 4/5 rating isn't encouraging them to change their business.
If it was consistent and standard, vendors who required FE would be buried below non-FE vendors and it would absolutely encourage them to end this practice.
This is like if you purchased something advertised as 'shitty weed that I'm selling off cheap' and then giving the vendor a low rating because you did in fact receive shitty weed.
Completely untrue. Selling varying qualities of product is standard business. As long as the description is accurate and fairly priced there is no problem with the quality point in the feedback system to be "1 point for product as described." Requiring FE, when we have a good system of escrow to protect both sides, is simply putting all the risk in a transaction on the buyer. If someone buying from an FE vendor wanted to go back and change the feedback to 5/5 after an otherwise seamless transaction that'd make sense. Why should a vendor sit up around 100% feedback on dozens of 5/5 FE's?
If get a 4/5 for every international customers then I would continue to lose feedback so bye bye international customers. 4/5's hurt vendors, if I get two 4/5's in a row and I have a 100% feedback rating it will drop to a 99%, now imagine if I do 20 international orders and automatically get 4/5's and they all receive their products and actually want to give me a 5/5, not fair.
I don't want to restrict international customers based on feedback so I think this plan would never work out. It's simple if you're a buyer, you pick vendors you trust, build relationships with them and then you won't have any problems.
Ivory is one of the top 1% vendors on here and requires all his customers to finalize early no matter of their stats, imagine if he gets a 4/5 every time he does an international order (which if you look at his vendor page all you see is "FE because Ivory is the best." I FE for Ivory every time cause he always comes through, to me that's a 5/5 not a 4/5.
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Vending to a new user with 0/0% opens the vendor up to just as much if not more risk then the vendor making those new buyer's FE does to the buyer.
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I was thinking that a vendor who requires FE should never be entitled to feedback of 5/5 losing a point for the requirement. In my assertion 5/5 = perfect and a FE requirement is less than perfect. I personally will not deal with a vendor who requires FE as it opens me up to more risk than I am willing to take. But if those who do would begin offering only a max of 4/5 feedback to those vendors the community would be encouraged to not require FE on the seller side and the buyer side could more easily identify those vendors simply by their rating.
Anyone disagree?
I had a vender name purestore(99) do this to me. And now he's in stealth mode. What gives????
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I can see where the OP is coming from. Vendors who FE just to FE are dangerous, especially to newer buyers. That said, if I see a vendor that wants me to FE and I don't want to FE then I don't buy. If I couldn't find another vendor then I'd just suck it up or maybe try to talk to the vendor.
Someone mentioned Ivory and Ivory is a great example. I placed an order and Ivory was my first FE ever. I know Ivory has great product and an impeccable reputation and has a business to run. For someone like that, they need that money today, not in a week or two when the product comes through.
There's plenty of vendors out there and the ones who aren't good will eventually get outed and run out of business. The ones who are legit and treat their customers well will prosper and make money--regardless of FE policy.
Long story short: FE provides nice protection for the buyer but sometimes the seller needs the coverage more.
Cheers
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I can see where the OP is coming from. Vendors who FE just to FE are dangerous, especially to newer buyers. That said, if I see a vendor that wants me to FE and I don't want to FE then I don't buy. If I couldn't find another vendor then I'd just suck it up or maybe try to talk to the vendor.
Someone mentioned Ivory and Ivory is a great example. I placed an order and Ivory was my first FE ever. I know Ivory has great product and an impeccable reputation and has a business to run. For someone like that, they need that money today, not in a week or two when the product comes through.
There's plenty of vendors out there and the ones who aren't good will eventually get outed and run out of business. The ones who are legit and treat their customers well will prosper and make money--regardless of FE policy.
Long story short: FE provides nice protection for the buyer but sometimes the seller needs the coverage more.
Cheers
i am new to SR and i am totally down to help legit vendors. : )
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I don't want to restrict international customers based on feedback so I think this plan would never work out. It's simple if you're a buyer, you pick vendors you trust, build relationships with them and then you won't have any problems.
You don't HAVE to restrict your buyers based on feedback. Just learn to live in the new reality where if you require FE you can expect your feedback to fall into the 70% - 80% range. I don't want to be forced to build a relationship by starting out said relationship open to 100% risk. Escrow works and requiring FE eliminates a wonderful system put in place to protect BOTH parties. After a few escrow protected transactions if a buyer chose to trust the vendor enough to FE that's his business.
Ivory is one of the top 1% vendors on here and requires all his customers to finalize early no matter of their stats, imagine if he gets a 4/5 every time he does an international order (which if you look at his vendor page all you see is "FE because Ivory is the best."
Ivory is one of the top 1% of vendors because of this culture of 5/5 feedback even without a 'perfect' transaction. Ivory's product may be top notch, but his FE requirement is onerous and should produce a feedback rating of around 80% max.
I FE for Ivory every time cause he always comes through, to me that's a 5/5 not a 4/5.
Would it be better if Ivory provided his service without requiring FE? (Obviously yes) If yes, how can it possibly be 5/5 (or as good as it gets)? This seems like simple logic to me.
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I get the thing about not wanting to FE for safety. If it's a big order, I get not wanting to FE. If it's an international order and it's a large order, you're taking your money into your own hands as is in risking seizures and such. If you're ordering small internationally, how does it really detract from the product/service by FE'ing?
I don't FE unless I trust the vendor (and that's the rare exception not the rule thus far). It's not like you have access to that money after you place the order anyways so if you're buying from a reputable vendor (which you should in this situation) then why not FE?
Maybe you've been burned and I get that. But this is a fucking black market enterprise and the dealers need their funds. If they need more product they already have to go through the hoops of getting their BTC back into cash (going through any laundering they may need), buy/acquire/make more product, then continue the process of selling. I doubt we'd have as many good international vendors willing to send out if they needed to wait a matter of weeks before making their profit off one order.
Not to mention all the lazy fuckers who don't finalize in a timely manner even after they get their product. I mean, damn.
Not all of this is directed at OP as I definitely get that we buyers want assurance that we're not getting fucked but let's not get so entitled that we start making vendor's lives more difficult--the good ones already work hard to service this community and they deserve every 5/5, FE be damned
Cheers
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If you choose to agree to buy from someone who requires you to FE then that is what you should expect to happen. If you FE, get your product, and then leave a 4/5 because the vendor did what they said they would then you are not being honest when leaving feedback.
It isn't your choice to decided if FE is wrong or not. You can use it or not but you don't get to decide if others get to use it or not.
I don't require anyone to FE, but I wouldn't pass judgement on anyone who did. Maybe they have their reasons. It is a useful tool in certain situations (as others have described above). Where a buyer chooses to spend their money is their real power and the best means they have of changing a marketplace.
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If you choose to agree to buy from someone who requires you to FE then that is what you should expect to happen. If you FE, get your product, and then leave a 4/5 because the vendor did what they said they would then you are not being honest when leaving feedback.
It isn't your choice to decided if FE is wrong or not. You can use it or not but you don't get to decide if others get to use it or not.
I don't require anyone to FE, but I wouldn't pass judgement on anyone who did. Maybe they have their reasons. It is a useful tool in certain situations (as others have described above). Where a buyer chooses to spend their money is their real power and the best means they have of changing a marketplace.
You are right that the buyer makes a choice and their money is the real power. In the end the vendor is working for money. When a vendor requires FE the transaction is inherently imperfect. 5/5 implies a perfect transaction. The vendor gets paid for his services, he does not automatically deserve perfect feedback when he is offering an imperfect service. I am struggling to understand why so many people disagree with very obvious logic.
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I am sick of people writing all of this crap about finalizing early. Nobody held a gun to their head and made them do it. There are some situations where finalizing early is needed, and that situation will be decided by the vendor and the customer, not you ranting on the forums. If either party is not satisfied with any of the terms they do not have to participate. That is it. Why is that so hard for some of you to understand and why do you feel the need to complain about it so much? Did you click the finalize button when you shouldn't have?
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I am sick of people writing all of this crap about finalizing early. Nobody held a gun to their head and made them do it. There are some situations where finalizing early is needed, and that situation will be decided by the vendor and the customer, not you ranting on the forums. If either party is not satisfied with any of the terms they do not have to participate. That is it. Why is that so hard for some of you to understand and why do you feel the need to complain about it so much? Did you click the finalize button when you shouldn't have?
Not at all. I have never FE'd. I am just trying to influence the SR culture to more accurately represent vendor's true feedback ratings. I am not trying to rant. I am reiterating a position I feel others should share. I've had several people now complain that I am wrong or "this will never work" but no response to the statement that a transaction requiring FE is not a perfect transaction and thus not worthy of 5/5 because the transaction had it not required FE would be more perfect and than worthy of 5/5.
Maybe you will be the one 20.
Thanks,
T4B
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Your version of 'perfect service' doesn't include the buyer getting exactly what they were supposed to get from a seller (according to the terms of their agreement). Your gripe is with the system, not the vendor. They are just using the tools which have been made available to them at the best of their abilities.
I do not require FE - just to be clear.
"Always use the escrow system! This can't be stressed enough. 99% of scams are from people who set up fake vendor accounts and ask buyers to pay them directly or release payment before their order arrives. This behavior should be reported immediately. If you do choose to do this, we will be completely unable to help you in the event of fraud."
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I am sick of people writing all of this crap about finalizing early. Nobody held a gun to their head and made them do it. There are some situations where finalizing early is needed, and that situation will be decided by the vendor and the customer, not you ranting on the forums. If either party is not satisfied with any of the terms they do not have to participate. That is it. Why is that so hard for some of you to understand and why do you feel the need to complain about it so much? Did you click the finalize button when you shouldn't have?
Not at all. I have never FE'd. I am just trying to influence the SR culture to more accurately represent vendor's true feedback ratings. I am not trying to rant. I am reiterating a position I feel others should share. I've had several people now complain that I am wrong or "this will never work" but no response to the statement that a transaction requiring FE is not a perfect transaction and thus not worthy of 5/5 because the transaction had it not required FE would be more perfect and than worthy of 5/5.
Maybe you will be the one 20.
Thanks,
T4B
Okay so you have never finalized early?
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Your gripe is with the system, not the vendor.
My hope is for the buyers to alter the SR culture and expect vendors to not require FE, or if they do to expect diminished feedback ratings. I have no gripe with anyone. The guff that keeps coming my way is from vendors. I suppose they don't like the idea because they enjoy the ability to require FE and continue to garner perfect feedback ratings. It shouldn't be that way. There are other vendors who don't require FE and should have their feedback ratings reflect the fact that they offer better service than their FE counterparts.
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Okay so you have never finalized early?
Personally, never.
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Im thinking the rating system is set up to provide vendors evidence of the quality of there service, you cant predict this until you have the product in hand, FE is normally advertised on there profile so you know this is going to happen before you place the order. You know what your getting into before you buy, your not misled, thinking its something its not or poor service, iv finalized a few times for respected vendors but rated them on there service and product.
The feedback rating system is all we have. Presupposing that 5/5 means it was a flawless transaction. FE in my opinion would automatically be considered a flaw even if it is advertised ahead of time. Considering you cannot leave zero there are 3 points left on the scale to account for quality, packaging, and shipment speed/communication. If we changed the culture of the road so that vendors who require FE to expect 4/5 for doing so we could better influence the honest vendors to deal within the confines of escrow and even further isolate the scam artists.
That doesn't stop vendors from refusing doing business with you. Maybe someday SR support will finally realize how fucking stupid it is to allow FE at all. Look at people like Bloomingcolor, he was a vendor for a whole year then decided to go rogue and fuck everyone over. Luckily i didn't buy anything from him but it was tempting. You have a great idea with the 4/5 but i don't think enough members will participate for it to work sadly. The rating system is greatly flawed i see buyers leaving 5/5 for items advertised as LSD but weren't. They complain yet leave a 5/5 still wtf?
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Okay so you have never finalized early?
Personally, never.
That was a choice you made correct?
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Well I'm personally done. I don't think the OP is going to see the other side of this argument as I have already stated as much as I care to for FE and I do not believe he has anymore to offer in ways of reasoning that I have not already heard I respectfully disagree. Maybe the OP will have an experience that might help him see some of the issues vendors face at some point.
Cheers
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Well I'm personally done. I don't think the OP is going to see the other side of this argument as I have already stated as much as I care to for FE and I do not believe he has anymore to offer in ways of reasoning that I have not already heard I respectfully disagree. Maybe the OP will have an experience that might help him see some of the issues vendors face at some point.
I am not incapable of understanding the plight of vendors. I do not understand why because of their problems they somehow deserve perfect feedback while delivering imperfect service.
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its amazing that people cant bypass stupidity in a freemarket.
you are under no obligation to buy via FE, it is entirely upto you, if you are not comfortable with FE i suggest you do not buy from that vendor, it is no use protesting every vendors practices, just do not buy from them(if that is how you feel about FE) perhaps the vendor will change their practices if enough people are not comfortable with fe..
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its amazing that people cant bypass stupidity in a freemarket.
you are under no obligation to buy via FE, it is entirely upto you, if you are not comfortable with FE i suggest you do not buy from that vendor, it is no use protesting every vendors practices, just do not buy from them(if that is how you feel about FE) perhaps the vendor will change their practices if enough people are not comfortable with fe..
Why is it that my goal comes across as unclear? I am not protesting anything. I am trying to educate the community about the idea that a vendor requiring FE is providing a sub-par service and should thus expect sup-par feedback.
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Can someone explain why a seller wants his/her customers to FE? I mean the obvious answer is they want their money sooner. But I assume most sellers are financially ranging from "making ends meet" to "making money hand over fist". And auto-finalize happens in about 2 weeks. Why cant they just quietly wait the 2 weeks? Why would they *need* that money from each single order "now now now!"
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Can someone explain why a seller wants his/her customers to FE? I mean the obvious answer is they want their money sooner. But I assume most sellers are financially ranging from "making ends meet" to "making money hand over fist". And auto-finalize happens in about 2 weeks. Why cant they just quietly wait the 2 weeks? Why would they *need* that money from each single order "now now now!"
When you see a buyer with 0.0% stats who signed up 3 day's ago, they've not proven to anyone they aren't a scammer just trying to steal the vendors product ... that's why vendors make customers FE. Reputable vendors state this clearly in their vendor profile, so if someone FE or is asked to and comes crying about it, then it was their own fault for not RTFM.
What has this person to lose, are they worried about sullying their 0/0% record with a refund if they're a scammer?
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AVOID THEM UNLESS THEY ARE IN THE TOP 10 PERCENT! EVEN THEN ITS STRANGE A TOP 10 PERCENTER WOULD REQUIRE THIS....
Please explain to me and everyone else why the top 10% are to be trusted to FE and not anyone else. Also where how did you come to the conclusion that it was the 10%, why not 13.5%...
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its amazing that people cant bypass stupidity in a freemarket.
you are under no obligation to buy via FE, it is entirely upto you, if you are not comfortable with FE i suggest you do not buy from that vendor, it is no use protesting every vendors practices, just do not buy from them(if that is how you feel about FE) perhaps the vendor will change their practices if enough people are not comfortable with fe..
Why is it that my goal comes across as unclear? I am not protesting anything. I am trying to educate the community about the idea that a vendor requiring FE is providing a sub-par service and should thus expect sup-par feedback.
nein you must veiw the service which you expect to undertake, it is up to you not to enter because you are having to FE, it is disengenous to do a transaction with FE then to complain that you had to use FE and reflect that in a poor feedback report, If you have a problem with FE do not use it. IF you are going to use FE then you must evaluate the service on the service not by the way which you chose to pay. if you do not wish to buy via FE just dont, but giving someone a shady report because you willingly entered FE is rather dishonest.
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Can someone explain why a seller wants his/her customers to FE? I mean the obvious answer is they want their money sooner. But I assume most sellers are financially ranging from "making ends meet" to "making money hand over fist". And auto-finalize happens in about 2 weeks. Why cant they just quietly wait the 2 weeks? Why would they *need* that money from each single order "now now now!"
Let's say I sell a lb of coke to ten international customers and wait patiently for them to receive their orders and finalize (10 business days or more)
Then everyone messages me "Hey when are you going to have more" "Hey when can I buy some?" "Hey, hey, hey"
My response will be "Oh, I'll restock when my international customers hit the finalize button, but don't worry that will be in a week or two, oh but I also have to turn the bitcoin into physical money so it might take some more time ;D"
That's why I make international orders finalize early and like people said before no one is pointing a gun to your head and making you finalize early, if you don't want to then move onto a different vendor.
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giving someone a shady report because you willingly entered FE is rather dishonest.
4/5 is not a 'shady' report, it is a reflection on the fact that the transaction could have been better. In no way is it dishonest, if the consumer feels that the transaction was anything less than perfect, giving 5/5 is dishonest.
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So if you were to order something form me and pay for it. Would you leave me a 4 out of 5 because you had to pay for it? Or would that be a 3 out of 5?
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To put it simply, any buyer who Finalizes Early for whatever the reason is absolutely crazy. There are many vendors who don't require buyers to Finalize Early. I understand vendors having buyers with less than say ten transactions or bad stats to Finalize early, but for buyers with good stats, vendors IMO, should use the SR Escrow system.I believe a vendor needs to factor in the potential delay in receiving BTC due to reasons such as international deliveries, when starting up a business which I'm sure is easier said than done. Equally, I implore all buyers to finalize any orders they receive immediately so vendors don't have to wait unnecessarily for their coin. It's about having a level of decency and respect for each other and follow the philosophy that "treat others as they treat you". For me, if a vendor processes my order in a timely manner and keeps me informed then I will 100% finalize the order within an hour of receiving it, guaranteed. Even if there is a problem with the order, as long as we can reach a solution I will still Finalize the order for them so they can keep their business turning over. That's only fair to the vendor and IMO, will prosper a vendor/buyer relationship for future transactions which is good for everyone. :)
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I was thinking that a vendor who requires FE should never be entitled to feedback of 5/5 losing a point for the requirement. In my assertion 5/5 = perfect and a FE requirement is less than perfect. I personally will not deal with a vendor who requires FE as it opens me up to more risk than I am willing to take. But if those who do would begin offering only a max of 4/5 feedback to those vendors the community would be encouraged to not require FE on the seller side and the buyer side could more easily identify those vendors simply by their rating.
Anyone disagree?
You do realize it goes both ways. We both can get scammed if there's no registered mail. However, if it's registered mail I agree FE should not be done.
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So if you were to order something form me and pay for it. Would you leave me a 4 out of 5 because you had to pay for it? Or would that be a 3 out of 5?
***CLEARNET***
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slippery_slope
***CLEARNET***
Nobody ever said anything about paying the agreed upon price being cause for a diminished feedback score. That's just silly. If however you require a buyer to operate outside the escrow system, which is there for the safety of both parties. Requiring a buyer to give up this safety automatically makes it an imperfect transaction and unworthy of 5/5 feedback.
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I am not a big fan on FE. I think that Silk Road needs to add a feature that would allow you to Finalize Early but take away the ability for the customer to score the vendor on it. Once the customer click it It would start the regular timer that silk road has but it gives the vendor a 0/5 until you go back to review after you receive the product. If the timer counts down without you going into resolution or revising the feedback default feedback score will be given and it will count against the customers stats like an auto finalization. If a vendor requires FE they have to keep 33% of their current transactions in their account to settle any disputes.
This would resolve the problem we have when we go to a vendors page and only see FE, or vendor with 100+ transactions and 100% score with no quality feedback and requiring customers to FE. Every time a customer has to FE it will hit their score until the customer revises their feedback. This will also encourage the customer to revise feedback after receiving the product. Keeping the 33% of transactions will help keep the vendor honest and at least allow for something back if the vendor stars scamming.
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I am not a big fan on FE. I think that Silk Road needs to add a feature that would allow you to Finalize Early but take away the ability for the customer to score the vendor on it. Once the customer click it It would start the regular timer that silk road has but it gives the vendor a 0/5 until you go back to review after you receive the product. If the timer counts down without you going into resolution or revising the feedback default feedback score will be given and it will count against the customers stats like an auto finalization. If a vendor requires FE they have to keep 33% of their current transactions in their account to settle any disputes.
This would resolve the problem we have when we go to a vendors page and only see FE, or vendor with 100+ transactions and 100% score with no quality feedback and requiring customers to FE. Every time a customer has to FE it will hit their score until the customer revises their feedback. This will also encourage the customer to revise feedback after receiving the product. Keeping the 33% of transactions will help keep the vendor honest and at least allow for something back if the vendor stars scamming.
While an institutional fix would be best, what I am advocating here is to utilize the tools we currently have. We have a functional escrow system and a 4 point feedback review system (and feedback notes) (I say 4 because 1/5 is essentially 0 because you cannot give 0.) Surely there is some way to alter the entire system and solve this problem, but until that happens I think anyone who takes the time and thinks about an FE requirement as a problem and thus an imperfect transaction will agree that it should never be given 5/5 feedback.
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So if you were to order something form me and pay for it. Would you leave me a 4 out of 5 because you had to pay for it? Or would that be a 3 out of 5?
***CLEARNET***
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slippery_slope
***CLEARNET***
Nobody ever said anything about paying the agreed upon price being cause for a diminished feedback score. That's just silly. If however you require a buyer to operate outside the escrow system, which is there for the safety of both parties. Requiring a buyer to give up this safety automatically makes it an imperfect transaction and unworthy of 5/5 feedback.
I have to agree with Turkey for Breakfast on this one. Escrow is there for a reason and it's use is promoted by DPR in his statement found on the new SR Home Page. It is there to safe guard both parties from potential scams and reach a fair decision for both parties in the event something should go wrong. If a buyer FE outside of the Escrow system, they are then in the hands of the vendor, who can make any decision they want, regardless if the buyer disagrees. Effectively, the buyer has no recourse and SR Admin won't get involved as it is outside the Resolution Center. As long as both parties follow the rules and treat others as they expect to be treated, there shouldn't be many problems. One thing we need to remember is that most of the items being sent are illegal. There is the possibility of packages being siezed by customs/LE and if that can be proven with documentation, IMO, the cost should be worn by both parties. I must say though, how a vendor packages their items plays a major role in it arriving at it's destination. They need to constantly be improving or developing new techniques and methods to keep authorities "guessing". I would be happy to be charged a little extra for delivery if it increased the chances of it arriving.
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So if you were to order something form me and pay for it. Would you leave me a 4 out of 5 because you had to pay for it? Or would that be a 3 out of 5?
***CLEARNET***
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slippery_slope
***CLEARNET***
Nobody ever said anything about paying the agreed upon price being cause for a diminished feedback score. That's just silly. If however you require a buyer to operate outside the escrow system, which is there for the safety of both parties. Requiring a buyer to give up this safety automatically makes it an imperfect transaction and unworthy of 5/5 feedback.
I am glad you agree that "that's just silly" because it is just as ridiculous as the FE rating system you are trying to make justifiable.
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So if you were to order something form me and pay for it. Would you leave me a 4 out of 5 because you had to pay for it? Or would that be a 3 out of 5?
***CLEARNET***
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slippery_slope
***CLEARNET***
Nobody ever said anything about paying the agreed upon price being cause for a diminished feedback score. That's just silly. If however you require a buyer to operate outside the escrow system, which is there for the safety of both parties. Requiring a buyer to give up this safety automatically makes it an imperfect transaction and unworthy of 5/5 feedback.
I have to agree with Turkey for Breakfast on this one. Escrow is there for a reason and it's use is promoted by DPR in his statement found on the new SR Home Page. It is there to safe guard both parties from potential scams and reach a fair decision for both parties in the event something should go wrong. If a buyer FE outside of the Escrow system, they are then in the hands of the vendor, who can make any decision they want, regardless if the buyer disagrees. Effectively, the buyer has no recourse and SR Admin won't get involved as it is outside the Resolution Center. As long as both parties follow the rules and treat others as they expect to be treated, there shouldn't be many problems. One thing we need to remember is that most of the items being sent are illegal. There is the possibility of packages being siezed by customs/LE and if that can be proven with documentation, IMO, the cost should be worn by both parties. I must say though, how a vendor packages their items plays a major role in it arriving at it's destination. They need to constantly be improving or developing new techniques and methods to keep authorities "guessing". I would be happy to be charged a little extra for delivery if it increased the chances of it arriving.
Above you stated that escrow is to safe guard both parties from potential scams. You explained the buyer side, but I did not see where you explained the vendors side. Can you please explain to me how escrow protects a vendor in any way?
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I am glad you agree that "that's just silly" because it is just as ridiculous as the FE rating system you are trying to make justifiable.
So you really think, as a buyer, that a transaction which requires FE is just as good as the same transaction with the protection of escrow?
C'mon man.
I understand that you are a vendor and have a vested interest in protecting your status quo where you can get your payment instantly and as long as you stay honest nobody gets hurt. From your point of view no harm no foul, end result everyone is happy and no reason for less than perfect feedback. But, let's be real. Your FE requirement is less good than had you offered the same transaction with the standard escrow protections.
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The feedback system should be somewhat reworked imo somewhat like ebay it should be.
That way instead of FE lowering their rating it will go along with their total feedback.
Positive- Neutral-Negative .... So that a 4/5 rating will not lower there rating
Item as described 5/5
Communication 5/5
Shipping time and packaging 5/5
Required FE... Yes or No
This is much better because many sellers may earn a 4/5 rating for their packaging for example but you don't want to lower their 100% feedback.
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I ask for FE under very specific conditions.
If you have ANY AF rate, FE. That just pisses me off.
Larger bulk orders require minimum criteria to use escrow. If the mins are not met, the item is available if you FE.
I think both these conditions are fair.
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So if you were to order something form me and pay for it. Would you leave me a 4 out of 5 because you had to pay for it? Or would that be a 3 out of 5?
Or if you order some heroin and he didn't give you a free gram?
If you agree to finalise early then it's PART OF THE DEAL. You can't argue with that.
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If you agree to finalise early then it's PART OF THE DEAL. You can't argue with that.
I completely agree. If a vendor requires FE and the buyer agrees it is definitely part of the deal. However the deal is inherently less good than had the vendor not required FE. Thus the transaction is unworthy of a perfect 5/5 and the most the vendor should hope for is 4/5 based on product arriving as described (quality, packaging, communication/shipping speed)
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So if you were to order something form me and pay for it. Would you leave me a 4 out of 5 because you had to pay for it? Or would that be a 3 out of 5?
***CLEARNET***
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slippery_slope
***CLEARNET***
Nobody ever said anything about paying the agreed upon price being cause for a diminished feedback score. That's just silly. If however you require a buyer to operate outside the escrow system, which is there for the safety of both parties. Requiring a buyer to give up this safety automatically makes it an imperfect transaction and unworthy of 5/5 feedback.
I have to agree with Turkey for Breakfast on this one. Escrow is there for a reason and it's use is promoted by DPR in his statement found on the new SR Home Page. It is there to safe guard both parties from potential scams and reach a fair decision for both parties in the event something should go wrong. If a buyer FE outside of the Escrow system, they are then in the hands of the vendor, who can make any decision they want, regardless if the buyer disagrees. Effectively, the buyer has no recourse and SR Admin won't get involved as it is outside the Resolution Center. As long as both parties follow the rules and treat others as they expect to be treated, there shouldn't be many problems. One thing we need to remember is that most of the items being sent are illegal. There is the possibility of packages being siezed by customs/LE and if that can be proven with documentation, IMO, the cost should be worn by both parties. I must say though, how a vendor packages their items plays a major role in it arriving at it's destination. They need to constantly be improving or developing new techniques and methods to keep authorities "guessing". I would be happy to be charged a little extra for delivery if it increased the chances of it arriving.
Above you stated that escrow is to safe guard both parties from potential scams. You explained the buyer side, but I did not see where you explained the vendors side. Can you please explain to me how escrow protects a vendor in any way?
Considering this is an Anonymous Market and as such, is shrouded in uncertainty and the unknown, the Escrow system does help vendors IMO. It allows a vendor to send the product knowing the buyer has paid for the product in full. If there was no Escrow system, there would be fewer buyers, if any, willing to send an anonymous vendor BTC for a product they bought anonymously over the Hidden Web. Equally, I doubt there would be many vendors willing to send drugs to countries all over the world in the hope the anonymous person corresponding with them over the internet pays up. The potential risk would be massive for who ever sends to the other first, whether it was BTC or drugs. Escrow, IMO as a buyer, actually encourages a buyer to make a purchase with the knowledge we won't be ripped off. It encourages business, especially for people like me who without it, would stay away from sites such as SR Without Escrow, I personally would go without and look elsewhere for my fix. One thing is for sure though, I wouldn't purchase anything over the net without a safe guard such as Escrow in place.
I can totally understand where you are coming from as a vendor and actually sympathize with you regarding the way some buyers abuse the Escrow system. Unfortunately for newbie's, I believe some constraints such as not selling to people with less than 10 transactions or a certain amount of BTC spent may have to be implemented to minimize your risk (although I suspect they may already be used by you). It's these dickheads who screw it up for honest buyers such as myself who simply want some good shit delivered to my door and have no problem paying for the service or the privilege. I believe it's at the stage where registered post is a must so vendors actually know if a package does arrive. There seems to be a lot of he said/she said about packages arriving or not. At least if it can be proven to have arrived, SR Admin would look favorably at the vendor should it go to the Resolution Center for a decision to be made. There are both good and bad buyers and vendors here on SR and we as a community need to keep exposing them, weeding them out as best we can until someone thinks of a way we can eliminate them for good. Until then................
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If the buyer agrees to FE on their own accord and both parties are happy with that, then there is no reason a 5/5 can't be given if both parties are satisfied with the overall transaction. Where a vendor stipulates a buyer must FE for what ever reason, the buyer really has no reason for lowering his feedback score if he has entered into and agreed on the vendor's terms when making the order. If you stick to the rule of "never FE for anyone, regardless of how good a deal may sound, you can't go wrong".There are plenty of vendors who are happy for you to use the Escrow system, just do some research. :)
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I ask for FE under very specific conditions.
If you have ANY AF rate, FE. That just pisses me off.
Larger bulk orders require minimum criteria to use escrow. If the mins are not met, the item is available if you FE.
I think both these conditions are fair.
I agree with you. That seems more than fair to me and as buyers, that's all we ask for from SR vendors. :)
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If you agree to finalise early then it's PART OF THE DEAL. You can't argue with that.
I completely agree. If a vendor requires FE and the buyer agrees it is definitely part of the deal. However the deal is inherently less good than had the vendor not required FE. Thus the transaction is unworthy of a perfect 5/5 and the most the vendor should hope for is 4/5 based on product arriving as described (quality, packaging, communication/shipping speed)
It would be a better deal for me if I didn't have to pay for the drugs. Should I give a bad rating because I have to pay?
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If you agree to finalise early then it's PART OF THE DEAL. You can't argue with that.
I completely agree. If a vendor requires FE and the buyer agrees it is definitely part of the deal. However the deal is inherently less good than had the vendor not required FE. Thus the transaction is unworthy of a perfect 5/5 and the most the vendor should hope for is 4/5 based on product arriving as described (quality, packaging, communication/shipping speed)
It would be a better deal for me if I didn't have to pay for the drugs. Should I give a bad rating because I have to pay?
WTF? I agree with you in as much as if it's agreed by both the vendor and the buyer to FE, then a 5/5 rating can most definitely be given if it's warranted. :)
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If you don't want to FE don't buy from that vendor...It's up to them what their policy is. A rating should be based on service, product and professionalism, not their requirements for doing business with a person.
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That's like saying you're going to give someone 4/5 because you don't like how much they charged you for a purchase that you agreed to pay for by going into business with them.
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1.Ive never FE for anything besides a lotto.Its simple if you don't want to FE then go to a different vendor that's common sense not to FE I learned way back when I was about 13 and first started smoking weed that you NEVER never never never never ever hand someone your money if they don't have the product.Its no different than FE why would you ever agree to hand over your money to a person you have never met or seen and just expect them to send your package? That's retarded.
2.SR has an escrow system for a reason and it was to protect you from scams so use it.No one forces you to FE.
3.Most people that require you to FE only require noobs to FE so maybe get 10 buy under your belt and you wouldn't have to FE ever.You have to build rep as a new buyer as does a new vendor.
My advice would to be buy from people that don't require new buyers to FE and get 5-10 buys and then all the FE bullshit is done.Its not that hard.
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1.Ive never FE for anything besides a lotto.Its simple if you don't want to FE then go to a different vendor that's common sense not to FE I learned way back when I was about 13 and first started smoking weed that you NEVER never never never never ever hand someone your money if they don't have the product.Its no different than FE why would you ever agree to hand over your money to a person you have never met or seen and just expect them to send your package? That's retarded.
2.SR has an escrow system for a reason and it was to protect you from scams so use it.No one forces you to FE.
3.Most people that require you to FE only require noobs to FE so maybe get 10 buy under your belt and you wouldn't have to FE ever.You have to build rep as a new buyer as does a new vendor.
My advice would to be buy from people that don't require new buyers to FE and get 5-10 buys and then all the FE bullshit is done.Its not that hard.
pinkapples88, I couldn't agree more with what you've written. I, for the life of me, will never understand why so many buyers here on SR are prepared to risk their BTC by FE! ??? Unless you know a vendor personally IRL, buyers need to remind themselves that your in fact dealing with a vendor who is completely anonymous and could realistically disappear at the drop of a hat and never be found. Most vendors would never do that of course, however by not using the Escrow system, your opening up the possibility for it to happen. Like you said pinkapples88, there are plenty of vendors who are prepared to use the Escrow system and want your business. Just look around.
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1.Ive never FE for anything besides a lotto.Its simple if you don't want to FE then go to a different vendor that's common sense not to FE I learned way back when I was about 13 and first started smoking weed that you NEVER never never never never ever hand someone your money if they don't have the product.Its no different than FE why would you ever agree to hand over your money to a person you have never met or seen and just expect them to send your package? That's retarded.
2.SR has an escrow system for a reason and it was to protect you from scams so use it.No one forces you to FE.
3.Most people that require you to FE only require noobs to FE so maybe get 10 buy under your belt and you wouldn't have to FE ever.You have to build rep as a new buyer as does a new vendor.
My advice would to be buy from people that don't require new buyers to FE and get 5-10 buys and then all the FE bullshit is done.Its not that hard.
pinkapples88, I couldn't agree more with what you've written. I, for the life of me, will never understand why so many buyers here on SR are prepared to risk their BTC by FE! ??? Unless you know a vendor personally IRL, buyers need to remind themselves that your in fact dealing with a vendor who is completely anonymous and could realistically disappear at the drop of a hat and never be found. Most vendors would never do that of course, however by not using the Escrow system, your opening up the possibility for it to happen. Like you said pinkapples88, there are plenty of vendors who are prepared to use the Escrow system and want your business. Just look around.
I don't understand it either.Its like some buyers thought that SR made the escrow system just for laughs or because they had nothing better to do.I'm thankful that the road has an escrow system there is a reason for it and they put it there to protect our money so why would anyone in there right minds deal outside of escrow? Its beyond me and I'm not even going to try to understand the reasoning behind it.
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If you choose to agree to buy from someone who requires you to FE then that is what you should expect to happen. If you FE, get your product, and then leave a 4/5 because the vendor did what they said they would then you are not being honest when leaving feedback.
It isn't your choice to decided if FE is wrong or not. You can use it or not but you don't get to decide if others get to use it or not.
I don't require anyone to FE, but I wouldn't pass judgement on anyone who did. Maybe they have their reasons. It is a useful tool in certain situations (as others have described above). Where a buyer chooses to spend their money is their real power and the best means they have of changing a marketplace.
You are right that the buyer makes a choice and their money is the real power. In the end the vendor is working for money. When a vendor requires FE the transaction is inherently imperfect. 5/5 implies a perfect transaction. The vendor gets paid for his services, he does not automatically deserve perfect feedback when he is offering an imperfect service. I am struggling to understand why so many people disagree with very obvious logic.
"You are right that the buyer makes a choice and their money is the real power. In the end the vendor is working for money" Can't totally agree with that logic here on the Road.
The reason why is,
" He who has the product is King!"
If it is great product AND great service, there is no discussion! Between feedback & forums, & if the vendor shows the customer that they care by giving a great product with great service, nobody will even give a rip if they ask for FE. (which also like farmer1, we don't require FE) But until there is a revamping of the current feedback system, posting a 4/5 because someone asks for FE is total BS.
Our 2bits
NCK
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Your right NorCalKing, a buyer shouldn't give a vendor a 4/5 simply because the vendor asked the buyer to FE. It is a personal choice. Just cause you are asked to FE doesn't mean you have to. But lowering a vendor's feedback score simply because they posed the question to FE is ridiculous.
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Your right NorCalKing, a buyer shouldn't give a vendor a 4/5 simply because the vendor asked the buyer to FE. It is a personal choice. Just cause you are asked to FE doesn't mean you have to. But lowering a vendor's feedback score simply because they posed the question to FE is ridiculous.
It's not that they are 'posing the question to FE.' It is that they are requiring it and insisting that buyers give up the only layer of protection they have in this world. An FE requirement is an inherently flawed transaction and undeserving of flawless feedback.
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I'll come order from you and if you require someone with perfect stats and over 50 transactions to FE I would straight up give you a 1/5 just for showing me no respect. It's vendors with the attitude you have that are making this place the scammers paradise it is.
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OP shut the fuck up you are a fucking cunt! Who the fuck are you and what the fuck do you do for the SR community or the members, buyers or sellers. You sound like a butthurt dickless spazz yaking away at some shit that has nothing to do with you, you are worthless so shut the hell up with your opinions.
Sellers provide a service and requiring FE is there if they want to prevent scammers or cunts like you from tryng to get a refund for something that they have sent. Its not enough that cunts like you get to leave a 4 and below with no merit. I see cunts like you messaging me all day, already butthurt before they even order. You need to shut the fuck up cause you are a nobody and you trying to sound like you got some clout makes me want to smack the shit out of you.
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I'll come order from you and if you require someone with perfect stats and over 50 transactions to FE I would straight up give you a 1/5 just for showing me no respect. It's vendors with the attitude you have that are making this place the scammers paradise it is.
You too monkey fuck you, what do you know?? Plenty of scammers with 50/0+ feedback order then lie about receiving and claim - look at me my rating is perfect you have to believe me i never received it. I've seen it all.
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Yeah man, you wanna talk about disrespect...respect the fact that someone is putting their ass on the line to ship you drugs via the mail over the internet. They can impose whatever rules they want. If you don't like their rules, don't order...dick. (In reference to spacecase)
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I forgot i posted in this thread....
@ all you nerds on my tip. I do what I want and you're gonna vend to me and you're gonna do what I say or I'm gonna leave bad feedback. deal with it. I'm not going to give someone on here anymore respect then what I give to my local dealers which is close to none. this is a business not a fucking eharmony online making friends while buy drugs site. I do what is expected and I expect the vendors to do the same which means selling the fucking drugs they advertise and not messaging me to FE after I order when they don't mention anywhere. You think because you vend drugs on the internet you somebody? nigga please. just do your jobs and do them right.
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I forgot i posted in this thread....
@ all you nerds on my tip. I do what I want and you're gonna vend to me and you're gonna do what I say or I'm gonna leave bad feedback. deal with it. I'm not going to give someone on here anymore respect then what I give to my local dealers which is close to none. this is a business not a fucking eharmony online making friends while buy drugs site. I do what is expected and I expect the vendors to do the same which means selling the fucking drugs they advertise and not messaging me to FE after I order when they don't mention anywhere. You think because you vend drugs on the internet you somebody? nigga please. just do your jobs and do them right.
Watch out guys we got a badass over here! 8)
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Again, nothing but vendors upset at the idea that they should have the right to require FE and still get perfect feedback. At the very least a buyer required to FE should leave feedback at 1/5 until the product arrives. At that point in the transaction the only thing that has happened is that they have handed money to the vendor, why give 5/5 for that?! After product arrives provided it is what was offered, the vendor communicated sufficiently, and the packaging was done right 4/5 should be the top feedback score as the transaction could have been better.
I imagine anyone reading this thread can clearly see the outrage this idea causes is because this idea is a powerful one. We are in fact taking the power back. Vendors will fight and argue and whine about it, but at the end of the day it is their tyrannical FE requirements that should be the cause for outrage. Join the revolution brothers. Don't be dissuaded by the vulgar arguments of the few vendors who want to cling to their 'right to require FE' despite what the SR terms of vendor service agreement says or how rational people feel about it. Stand up for your right to operate within the escrow system. Shame and devalue those who wish to impose unsafe practices such as FE on you. Refuse to grant perfect feedback to an inherently imperfect transaction. If something is wrong, use the tools you have to fix it.
FE = 4/5 max feedback score. 'Nuff said.
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I forgot i posted in this thread....
@ all you nerds on my tip. I do what I want and you're gonna vend to me and you're gonna do what I say or I'm gonna leave bad feedback. deal with it. I'm not going to give someone on here anymore respect then what I give to my local dealers which is close to none. this is a business not a fucking eharmony online making friends while buy drugs site. I do what is expected and I expect the vendors to do the same which means selling the fucking drugs they advertise and not messaging me to FE after I order when they don't mention anywhere. You think because you vend drugs on the internet you somebody? nigga please. just do your jobs and do them right.
What is fucking wrong with you spacecase #2!! Why would such an uneducated wanker like yourself, who probably has an ashtray on his motorbike, attempt to articulate these incoherent ramblings floating around in your head which make no sense at all and are best described as pointless dribble. You are the sort of person who would take an hour and a half to watch 60 Minutes!! Seriously, who are you trying to be champ? Your rude and hostile demeanor is fucking ridiculous and unwarranted. Your attitude stinks, especially towards vendors. It's really starting to piss me off, this wanna be gangsta talk used by some on this forum Show some respect, learn some manners and stop trying to be some "tough hard ass" dude your obviously not. It's this sort of bullshit, irrational behavior that has some of the more experienced forum members up in arms at how quickly some things here on SR have so quickly diminished.
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Again, nothing but vendors upset at the idea that they should have the right to require FE and still get perfect feedback. At the very least a buyer required to FE should leave feedback at 1/5 until the product arrives. At that point in the transaction the only thing that has happened is that they have handed money to the vendor, why give 5/5 for that?! After product arrives provided it is what was offered, the vendor communicated sufficiently, and the packaging was done right 4/5 should be the top feedback score as the transaction could have been better.
I imagine anyone reading this thread can clearly see the outrage this idea causes is because this idea is a powerful one. We are in fact taking the power back. Vendors will fight and argue and whine about it, but at the end of the day it is their tyrannical FE requirements that should be the cause for outrage. Join the revolution brothers. Don't be dissuaded by the vulgar arguments of the few vendors who want to cling to their 'right to require FE' despite what the SR terms of vendor service agreement says or how rational people feel about it. Stand up for your right to operate within the escrow system. Shame and devalue those who wish to impose unsafe practices such as FE on you. Refuse to grant perfect feedback to an inherently imperfect transaction. If something is wrong, use the tools you have to fix it.
FE = 4/5 max feedback score. 'Nuff said.
I'm with you 100% on the issue of educating buyer's to not Finalize Early, but I have to disagree with your thoughts that a 5/5 feedback score can't be left for a vendor who requests a buyer to FE. I can't see how a 1/5 feedback score can be given initially to the vendor when at that point, the transaction is in it's early stages. A vendor with 35+ transaction has a right to ask a buyer to FE so weather we like it or not, they are only operating within the rules set out by SR. My point is that a vendor with 35+ transactions has a right to ask a buyer to FE. Equally the buyer has a choice to either take the risk or politely refuse the request. If the buyer agrees to FE, for whatever reason and I'm yet to find one, and the vendor has operated within the SR rules in asking the buyer to FE, then a 5/5 must be given provided the transaction was as expected. If they FE and it's a decision they have made, no one can complain.
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I forgot i posted in this thread....
@ all you nerds on my tip. I do what I want and you're gonna vend to me and you're gonna do what I say or I'm gonna leave bad feedback. deal with it. I'm not going to give someone on here anymore respect then what I give to my local dealers which is close to none. this is a business not a fucking eharmony online making friends while buy drugs site. I do what is expected and I expect the vendors to do the same which means selling the fucking drugs they advertise and not messaging me to FE after I order when they don't mention anywhere. You think because you vend drugs on the internet you somebody? nigga please. just do your jobs and do them right.
What is fucking wrong with you spacecase #2!! Why would such an uneducated wanker like yourself, who probably has an ashtray on his motorbike, attempt to articulate these incoherent ramblings floating around in your head which make no sense at all and are best described as pointless dribble. You are the sort of person who would take an hour and a half to watch 60 Minutes!! Seriously, who are you trying to be champ? Your rude and hostile demeanor is fucking ridiculous and unwarranted. Your attitude stinks, especially towards vendors. It's really starting to piss me off, this wanna be gangsta talk used by some on this forum Show some respect, learn some manners and stop trying to be some "tough hard ass" dude your obviously not. It's this sort of bullshit, irrational behavior that has some of the more experienced forum members up in arms at how quickly some things here on SR have so quickly diminished.
The better question what the fuck is wrong with you trying to tell someone what to do on a open fucking forum. You're just another bitch ass nobody posting in a forum like myself. You don't like me fucking ignore me and stop whining like a 10 year old girl about it.
You probably been having discussion about me with your mom at the dinner table. 90% of you mother fuckers in here remind me of american government, just can't handle the fact you're not in control, get over it losers.
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spacecase #2, you are without doubt the dumbest, delusional gangsta wannabe I've ever encountered who's greatest achievements to date have been the invention of waterproof teabags and submarine fly screens. >:( I am a nobody and will happily always be one, but I'm a nobody with respect and consideration for others who doesn't continue to diminish this forums reputation with inexplicable rants which make no sense or have any meaning. Fuck knows what the American Government has to do with anything I've said or your baseless theory that I "just can't handle being in control". In control of what you fuck wit? You? Pleeeeeeease! This is more like a case of your miniscule brain being stretched to capacity in a feeble attempt at securing some ammunition for your next post. I have no doubt that based on your previous posts, there are very few, if any bullets left in there!!!! Buy yourself a dictionary, go back to school and learn how to communicate with the human race. I have a feeling that with your rude, arrogant and hostile attitude, a major dose of reality is just around the corner for you. >:(
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major dose of reality? I've been alive a long fucking time and I have everything figured out perfectly. wtf is with you nerds trying to make this look like an collegiate educated forum. I was educated through organized crime and was raised in the heart of the murder capitol of america. We were born against the odds where I'm from and dropped straight into reality. my old neighborhood is wiped out, completely, looks like a fucking war zone. how's that for reality? I'm not on here saying I'm a gangster cause I'm not. You're calling me a gangster. I grew up around plenty and I'm not one of them. What I am is a drug educated con it's all I know and that's all I care about. It's my life. When you come to a drug forum you have to deal with people like me. Quit your whining and fucking deal with it.
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FE = 4/5 max feedback score. 'Nuff said.
I say this without despite. Please never buy from me.
AF = FE. I shouldn't be punished for buyers whom have not had the curtosy to finalize on recieving their package.
Low Tran History + Bulk Order = FE I shouldn't be punished for hedging my risk on a newbie. Hell, the fact that I make it available to newbie should be comended.
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major dose of reality? I've been alive a long fucking time and I have everything figured out perfectly. wtf is with you nerds trying to make this look like an collegiate educated forum. I was educated through organized crime and was raised in the heart of the murder capitol of america. We were born against the odds where I'm from and dropped straight into reality. my old neighborhood is wiped out, completely, looks like a fucking war zone. how's that for reality? I'm not on here saying I'm a gangster cause I'm not. You're calling me a gangster. I grew up around plenty and I'm not one of them. What I am is a drug educated con it's all I know and that's all I care about. It's my life. When you come to a drug forum you have to deal with people like me. Quit your whining and fucking deal with it.
I'm sure with your background in 'organized crime' you should have no problem buying drugs without the internet...kid, you're funny as fuck. Everyone is soo hard hiding behind a computer screen. Drug educated con...hahahaha. ;D
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Once again another nobody claiming I'm "hard". You're all labeling me I'm not claiming any of this. must be true if I keep getting labeled it by you fuck wits cause you're all so smart with your education and diplomas/degrees.
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No, I was implying that you're trying (and trying really hard I might add) to make yourself seem like billy badass. You're just jealous 'cause I know how to read better than you (apparently). Hey Turkey Breakfast, how does it feel to have this guy the only person to have your back in your grand revolution? Hahaha.
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I clearly say in multiple post that I am nobody. To you I'm clearly "billy badass" though. Why else would you put that label on me. another dick rider get in line with the rest of the pasty nerds. I'm done replying to your ignorance you're not even a good enough troll for me to acknowledge.
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You sound like a fresh out of highschool kid who thinks he's tough 'cause he sells bath salts to kids at dubstep parties. Buddy, you have no idea what it's like to sell a large volume of illicit materials so don't even act like it. I know this, because you feel the need to let everybody know what a baaaad neighborhood you came from, and how you were educated by 'organized crime'. Real cons don't talk like that ever and don't address them selves as such. Grow up, kiddo.
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This isn't real life this is the internet where we are all anonymous real cons say w/e the fuck they want because we know it's safe to.
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i don't see how this would work.
im a new user and i was forced to FE and i got sent bunk product. the user had all good feedback and i searched them on the forum here to double check as advised and still got shafted.
thing is vendors do have to ask new users to FE else people wud just open new acc and never pay. Ive been studying the sellers of products i want to buy very thoroughly and researching as much as I can cuz I don't want to be ripped off again but i have not found ANY vendors that sell without FE. I'm looking only at EU vendors, maybe theres better ones stateside but I havn't seen any that don't sell without FE and TBH if I was a vendor I wouldn't either but I'm very annoyed I got sent bunk product my first time here.
Im very suspicious of the feedback anyway - they look fake as almost every single vendor has 5/5 and the first guy a buy from had alll 5/5 and i get sent bunk product. Something very fishy is going on with the FB system here.
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This isn't real life this is the internet where we are all anonymous real cons say w/e the fuck they want because we know it's safe to.
Running out of fuel, eh? I understand what you're saying now. It's safe for you to pretend to be who you want to be over the internet. It's cool, dawgie. Oh, I thought you weren't going to reply to me anymore. ;D
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I'M DA HEART OF DA STREET HARDEST NIGGA IN DA WORLD COME TEST ME BITCH I MAKE U TAKE A DIRT NAP PUSSY BOY
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have you not realized what I'm doing to you. I am posting just to make you react like you are. You're pathetic and you're playing right into my hand. ofc im just another white pasty nerd on here you fucking stupid thinking some gangster is on here. what a fucking joke you are.
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i put absolutely zero thought into my post it takes about 30 seconds for me to post you're wrong again
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have you not realized what I'm doing to you. I am posting just to make you react like you are. You're pathetic and you're playing right into my hand. ofc im just another white pasty nerd on here you fucking stupid thinking some gangster is on here. what a fucking joke you are.
Hahaha, okay buddy if you say so. Since I'm getting so mad you've totally won. Good job. Have a cookie.
Sit, boy. Lay down. Good dog. Stay.
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I am 110% mad 24/7 you do nothing to add to my already abundant amount of rage and hostility i have on a daily basis. how does it feel to know that you have done absolutely nothing but proven me right. you're my bitch you're doing everything i want you to. even after i tell you you still don't get it.
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Right. Well I'd love to sit here all day and let you make yourself look ridiculous but I've gotta go get my greens.
Take care now, kiddo. Have a good day, aight? :)
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I couldn't give 2 fucks who you are, where your from or how tough you had it growing up!! There are others here on the forum who have grown up in similar circumstances that are polite and respectful of others, unlike yourself. I'm not a nerd by any means, but I'd certainly rather be a nerd than a cunt like you. If all you care about in life is drugs and are happy to label yourself a "drug educated con"then your living a sad existence. There are a lot of educated people on this forum who contribute loads of USEFUL information for all to use as they wish. Then there are incoherent jibberers like yourself who just talk shit about nothing. Look at some other member's posts, other than mine, after you have written yours and you'll see what I mean. After all you have written here and the replies you've sent on other threads, I can say with some certainty that if you believe you "have everything figured out perfectly" in regards to your life, your fucking crazy and can't grasp the concept of reality. Not all drug users are junkies who don't give a fuck about anything. There are a lot of users who have full time careers working 40+ hrs a week and indulge in drugs as others do alcohol or cigarettes. If anyone wants an idea of the pointless dribble posted by spacecase #2, here is a classic example.
http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?topic=37000.0;topicseen
It's time for you to lay off the drugs mate cause obviously your having trouble distinguishing the difference between being straight (normal) and being high. Time for you to get some help.
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Once again another nobody claiming I'm "hard". You're all labeling me I'm not claiming any of this. must be true if I keep getting labeled it by you fuck wits cause you're all so smart with your education and diplomas/degrees.
Fuck your a legend champ and from the sounds of it, a HARD champ at that. It's you, and you alone, who has exposed for all to see, the minimal level of education you have received in life by continuing to write these posts which are incoherent waffle at best. Other members find it hard to reply because in the miss match of letters and words written by yourself, one struggles to comprehend what your trying to say and instead begins to calculate how much shit you've had to get to this point. Your about as hard as a pillow and will never convince me otherwise. Hard cunts don't need to constantly remind everyone that they are hard as their actions speak louder than their words, a saying your obviously not yet familiar with.
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IM DA HARDEST NIGGA IN DA WORLD DEAL WITH IT NERD
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IM DA HARDEST NIGGA IN DA WORLD DEAL WITH IT NERD
I believe spacecase #2 could be mascarading as Bosshogg. Spacecase #2 only joined the forum on the 24/8 and the writing styles, words used and phrasing all point to it being Bosshogg. Read some posts and tell me if you agree. Just seems too coincidental for spacecase #2 to show up, acting like Bosshogg used to and then praising Bosshogg in a thread, the only one mind you, while others were bagging him out for screwing them over. His account on SR now seems to be closed.
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IM DA HARDEST NIGGA IN DA WORLD DEAL WITH IT NERD
I believe spacecase #2 could be mascarading as Bosshogg. Spacecase #2 only joined the forum on the 24/8 and the writing styles, words used and phrasing all point to it being Bosshogg. Read some posts and tell me if you agree. Just seems too coincidental for spacecase #2 to show up, acting like Bosshogg used to and then praising Bosshogg in a thread, the only one mind you, while others were bagging him out for screwing them over. His account on SR now seems to be closed.
I agree hahaha its bosshogg
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Hopefully boss at least sends orders to some of the customers. I have been nice to him always.