Silk Road forums
Market => Rumor mill => Topic started by: flaxceed on December 31, 2012, 07:08 pm
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Hey let's all work together on this!!!! We shouldn't be letting the big gasoline retailers allow people to buy gas for cash for less than we pay for credit! Boycott these stations! Less choice is what we need!
Of course this is absurd, just like boycotting people like me who sell with FE only. Remember, vendors who allow you to stay in escrow cost more money. Why? They deal with a lot of scammers and the money comes out of YOUR pocket. People who buy from me don't have to pay a scam premium because I always require FE.
Escrow ties up a seller's money, and this is NEVER free.
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Yawn... ::)
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Remember, vendors who allow you to stay in escrow cost more money.
Sure, in some cases, but only until the one you FE for decides he's ready for the big cashout.
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CAPATALISM YO !
If you don't like it then
a. Get a fucking job
b. Don't get a credit card EVER, even if you are capable of getting a job
c. Take the percs that are given to you for being fiscally responsible and shut your bitch mouth
d. Get a fucking job
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If i was a seller I would not feel comfortable having 1000s or 10s of 1000s in escrow, one glitch or sr getting shut down could cause be disastrous
But as far as your money being tied up though, you should not be selling at all if you don't have 10s of thousands in cold hard cash in a safe place to re-up, for security, lawyer etcetera.
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You know after some thought this is a pretty good analogy except for the selling of drugs. I get my gas, then I pay.
They started cash disconnects in a couple of areas in the country because the credit card companies were screwing them for more fees(kinda of a boycott). Guess what?
The consumer chose, and you see the practice less, and less. What really strange is you can buy gas across the street cheaper with a card. Guess where I am going?
With capitalism comes freedom of choice. Stealing is not capitalism it's corrupted capitalism. Stealing is not a job.Despite what Wall Street thinks.
Asking to retain your rights is not anti capitalism.
If you were to believe the capitalist pigs of the world. Stealing is ok, as long as I do it.. I can self police myself. You can trust me.
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If i was a seller I would not feel comfortable having 1000s or 10s of 1000s in escrow, one glitch or sr getting shut down could cause be disastrous
But as far as your money being tied up though, you should not be selling at all if you don't have 10s of thousands in cold hard cash in a safe place to re-up, for security, lawyer etcetera.
You missed the point ENTIRELY. I am not saying I can not afford to have the money tied up, I am saying that when you deal with a vendor who has the money tied up then you have to pay a premium for it. Why don't you walk into your bank and ask them to give you a loan for three days for free? Nobody gets money for free. If you want to buy drugs NOW and pay LATER as you do with escrow there is a premium to be paid.
Why is this simple concept lost on people?
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Dude unless you haven't noticed this is New Year's, and everybody online is probably really tore up, or angry/depressed or drugged stupid. You're going to get soooo much shit for this thread.
But yeah. Fuck FE. Capitalism man. The customer is always right.
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If i was a seller I would not feel comfortable having 1000s or 10s of 1000s in escrow, one glitch or sr getting shut down could cause be disastrous
But as far as your money being tied up though, you should not be selling at all if you don't have 10s of thousands in cold hard cash in a safe place to re-up, for security, lawyer etcetera.
You missed the point ENTIRELY. I am not saying I can not afford to have the money tied up, I am saying that when you deal with a vendor who has the money tied up then you have to pay a premium for it. Why don't you walk into your bank and ask them to give you a loan for three days for free? Nobody gets money for free. If you want to buy drugs NOW and pay LATER as you do with escrow there is a premium to be paid.
Why is this simple concept lost on people?
No it's lost on you :o
What country you live in? Banks get money for free from the government just about every day. Your spin doesn't work with real world examples.
We are talking about DRUGS. IRL it's much different, never front, and never give the money before you see the drugs. What world you living in?
How many drugs deals did it take before you all learned that rule? Ahh, 1,,,,, 2..... 2 drugs deals for me ;) Even then you could still get scammed. Why leave your backside open unnecessarily?
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Dude unless you haven't noticed this is New Year's, and everybody online is probably really tore up, or angry/depressed or drugged stupid. You're going to get soooo much shit for this thread.
But yeah. Fuck FE. Capitalism man. The customer is always right.
Happy New Year!
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They aren't paying later. They are paying now - you just don't get the money yet. Realize that buyers have to put the money up, and then wait 3 days to get their package. Additionally, if you consider how BTC is constantly on the rise then you are generally making good money off your escrow account anyways.
*Note* I am not picking on you flaxceed and I respect your right to run your business as you see fit. I have no reason to doubt you are a great vendor. It never looks good for a vendor to lose their cool on the forums, so lets keep this philosophical n' shit.
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If i was a seller I would not feel comfortable having 1000s or 10s of 1000s in escrow, one glitch or sr getting shut down could cause be disastrous
But as far as your money being tied up though, you should not be selling at all if you don't have 10s of thousands in cold hard cash in a safe place to re-up, for security, lawyer etcetera.
You missed the point ENTIRELY. I am not saying I can not afford to have the money tied up, I am saying that when you deal with a vendor who has the money tied up then you have to pay a premium for it. Why don't you walk into your bank and ask them to give you a loan for three days for free? Nobody gets money for free. If you want to buy drugs NOW and pay LATER as you do with escrow there is a premium to be paid.
Why is this simple concept lost on people?
No it's lost on you :o
What country you live in? Banks get money for free from the government just about every day. Your spin doesn't work with real world examples.
We are talking about DRUGS. IRL it's much different, never front, and never give the money before you see the drugs. What world you living in?
How many drugs deals did it take before you all learned that rule? Ahh, 1,,,,, 2..... 2 drugs deals for me ;) Even then you could still get scammed. Why leave your backside open unnecessarily?
Uniwiz I see what you are saying. But do you? Why do these rules exist IRL? Because if you give people dope and tell them "OK man, go home and try this and if all is good then send me the money." you will get fucked. Guess what? I used to offer escrow and I was in effect doing just that. Let me send you the dope, and you try it out, and if it is legit then pay me! Guess what? A lot of people didn't pay. Instead they fucked me and went into the resolution center and said "man, I never got it!" and Silk Road gave them 50% back.
I didn't start this thread to ruffle feathers, I just want people to realize that there is a price to be paid by using escrow. There are far, far too many dishonest buyers out there who will regularly use the resolution center to get their dope for half price. How do I know this? Look at my feedback profile, and look at my 20+ months on bitcointalk.org. Just search "flaxceed" on there, and see how many people I have shipped to! I have literally thousands and thousands of customers. I always ship, I always ship ON TIME, and I always ship legit goods. So why is it that when I was letting people stay in escrow 30% of the goods never showed up?
Sellers who use escrow must be more expensive. How else can they cover this additional cost? And remember I sell diet pills and steroids and benzos. What if I was selling cocaine or heroin? Obviously the loss would be much, much higher than for my products. The customer base is entirely different.
I just want people to stop and think before becoming a blind "FE only" zombie. You are not getting the best prices when you use escrow. You are also not giving up your rights! Do you think I never have to re-ship because I am asking people to FE? Of course that is not the case! I have to keep my feedback very high if i want to demand FE and get it.
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But I do understand. Do you think I would rip you off? Why treat me this way?
I don't want my vendor to loose money, it's a partnership. All my solid vendors know that. Do you think I get a reship 100%, ok, yes I do ;)
But I have been scammed as well. I hate trying new vendors. I fucking hate it. 50% are a fucking scam. With experience I can lower that to 90% or so.
If you keep trying new vendors and bypassing escrow you are going to get burned. You are hiding behind a policy that causes me to loose money. I work to be trustworthy, and with one simple loop hole you take it away.
If hate buyers who scam vendors, don't tell me their "regulars" cause you have a fucked up client base.
How on earth is somebody with 10 transactions going to get away with 50% drugs scam for? Once? Twice? I call bullshit. You know it the newbies, I know it's the newbies. How do I know, because my vendors tell me so. This whole policy sets buyers up for a scam, period. You know it. Vendors just want to leave their exit open.
I saw just one good scam post today. The buyer is going to get his money back after the vendor was shut down. ( once again, kudos to SR Support) Because he stayed in escrow!
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It's disappointing that a vendor has created a thread in an attempt to justify their reason for requiring buyers to Finalize Early. The Escrow system is in place to protect both parties and should be used as per the Guidelines set out by DPR.To run a successful and therefore profitable business, the vendor will require some capital so they are able to re-up and have money sitting in Escrow, all while continuing to take and process new orders. Any vendor who can't afford to this will eventually go under. One thing's for sure, with a market like this there will always be vendors and buyers who will try to bend the rules and take short cuts in order to make a profit. However, there are rules in place and a set of guidelines which need to be followed and adhered to. If a vendor or a buyer (by FE) choose to work outside the guidelines, then they risk losing their money and will not be helped by SR Support. Like nomad bloodbath posted yesterday in a similar thread about vendor's requiring buyers to FE, he wrote words to the affect of "Whatever you do guys, don't ever Finalize Early for a vendor, regardless of the excuse they give you. Use your common sense people." Uniwiz is correct and I agree with his sentiments below, but flaxceed, while you may have customers who will FE for you now, you will also be losing some new customers through implementing your FE policy. Lots of vendors use Escrow and are happy to, so I can't see why you are not prepared to do so as well.
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It's disappointing that a vendor has created a thread in an attempt to justify their reason for requiring buyers to Finalize Early. The Escrow system is in place to protect both parties and should be used as per the Guidelines set out by DPR.To run a successful and therefore profitable business, the vendor will require some capital so they are able to re-up and have money sitting in Escrow, all while continuing to take and process new orders. Any vendor who can't afford to this will eventually go under. One thing's for sure, with a market like this there will always be vendors and buyers who will try to bend the rules and take short cuts in order to make a profit. However, there are rules in place and a set of guidelines which need to be followed and adhered to. If a vendor or a buyer (by FE) choose to work outside the guidelines, then they risk losing their money and will not be helped by SR Support. Like nomad bloodbath posted yesterday in a similar thread about vendor's requiring buyers to FE, he wrote words to the affect of "Whatever you do guys, don't ever Finalize Early for a vendor, regardless of the excuse they give you. Use your common sense people." Uniwiz is correct and I agree with his sentiments below, but flaxceed, while you may have customers who will FE for you now, you will also be losing some new customers through implementing your FE policy. Lots of vendors use Escrow and are happy to, so I can't see why you are not prepared to do so as well.
I used to offer escrow and when people would scam me and I had to raise all my prices it pissed me off to no end. I hate passing on the cost of scamming, but without doing so I would have had to close up shop. My solution is to offer the very best service I possibly can and do FE-only. I work very hard to keep my feedback as high as is humanly possible and I try to be good to people. If someone has a problem with delivery I try to work it out with them in a reasonable way.
A lot of you are pretending that I am a monster who fucks people over. But look at my feedback. As far as Nomad Bloodbath, I disagree with him. I think as this market matures either Silk Road will either be all-FE or they will fix the scamming buyer problem.
One of the biggest issues with all of the "let's not FE for anyone" threads is that it ignores the reality of life here on the Silk Road. The reality is a lot of sellers get scammed by doing escrow and they pass these costs along to other buyers. This is really shitty, but it is what you are demanding when you try to push FE off the map. I am pushing back because I think you are wrong about your opinions and you are ignoring the realities of the Road. I don't want to pass on the cost of scamming buyers and I don't have to!
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and then one day you're going to have some sale that brings in the buyers like flies to shit and then you'll just up and walk away with all that FE money and start all over again.
That's what FE only sellers always do. Always do. Some are legends like tony76.
And the "scammer premium" is bullshit, son. Your analogy about gas stations - weak.
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It's disappointing that a vendor has created a thread in an attempt to justify their reason for requiring buyers to Finalize Early. The Escrow system is in place to protect both parties and should be used as per the Guidelines set out by DPR.To run a successful and therefore profitable business, the vendor will require some capital so they are able to re-up and have money sitting in Escrow, all while continuing to take and process new orders. Any vendor who can't afford to this will eventually go under. One thing's for sure, with a market like this there will always be vendors and buyers who will try to bend the rules and take short cuts in order to make a profit. However, there are rules in place and a set of guidelines which need to be followed and adhered to. If a vendor or a buyer (by FE) choose to work outside the guidelines, then they risk losing their money and will not be helped by SR Support. Like nomad bloodbath posted yesterday in a similar thread about vendor's requiring buyers to FE, he wrote words to the affect of "Whatever you do guys, don't ever Finalize Early for a vendor, regardless of the excuse they give you. Use your common sense people." Uniwiz is correct and I agree with his sentiments below, but flaxceed, while you may have customers who will FE for you now, you will also be losing some new customers through implementing your FE policy. Lots of vendors use Escrow and are happy to, so I can't see why you are not prepared to do so as well.
I used to offer escrow and when people would scam me and I had to raise all my prices it pissed me off to no end. I hate passing on the cost of scamming, but without doing so I would have had to close up shop. My solution is to offer the very best service I possibly can and do FE-only. I work very hard to keep my feedback as high as is humanly possible and I try to be good to people. If someone has a problem with delivery I try to work it out with them in a reasonable way.
A lot of you are pretending that I am a monster who fucks people over. But look at my feedback. As far as Nomad Bloodbath, I disagree with him. I think as this market matures either Silk Road will either be all-FE or they will fix the scamming buyer problem.
One of the biggest issues with all of the "let's not FE for anyone" threads is that it ignores the reality of life here on the Silk Road. The reality is a lot of sellers get scammed by doing escrow and they pass these costs along to other buyers. This is really shitty, but it is what you are demanding when you try to push FE off the map. I am pushing back because I think you are wrong about your opinions and you are ignoring the realities of the Road. I don't want to pass on the cost of scamming buyers and I don't have to!
Flaxceed,as per your previous ban on selling to Australians (I presume that's no longer in place?), because we're all scammers in your book;
I believe you are conflating this idea that you are constantly being scammed with the very real possibility that your shipping and security practices aren't up to scratch.
By all means commence your chest-beating, but there are just way too many international vendors that don't have these problems for this to be the case, as you think it is.
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Shit sandwich.
He has a right to not wait 17+ days for his money
You have a right to shop elsewhere
::)
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Shit sandwich.
He has a right to not wait 17+ days for his money
You have a right to shop elsewhere
::)
Exactamondo Bruce. However, more and more people are beginning to realize the importance of the Escrow system as a preventative measure against them being scammed. This issue of 17+ days can be simply rectified with some capital, something each and every successful business IRL has access to (extra cash reserves, company credit card, bank overdraft, etc) so should a problem present itself, there are steps the vendor can take to rectify it immediately and concentrate their efforts towards what they do best, vending!
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Word!
Flaxceed you are such a joke
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Shit sandwich.
He has a right to not wait 17+ days for his money
You have a right to shop elsewhere
::)
Exactamondo Bruce. However, more and more people are beginning to realize the importance of the Escrow system as a preventative measure against them being scammed. This issue of 17+ days can be simply rectified with some capital, something each and every successful business IRL has access to (extra cash reserves, company credit card, bank overdraft, etc) so should a problem present itself, there are steps the vendor can take to rectify it immediately and concentrate their efforts towards what they do best, vending!
This is an interesting quote. And you know, overdraft and credit cards cost money. Plus, whenever a business has to dip into its cash reserves to support you- that costs money too!
Maybe this means that people are finally starting to see what I have been saying. Escrow is not free. Escrow costs money, and sellers who use escrow are loaning you money and charging you for it. Not only the money over time costs, but the scamming costs are passed on to your customers if you use escrow.
I wish some of you could understand some of the most rudimentary concepts of economics. I have another wish while I am at it. I wish that when we have this wonderful free market tool that has been enormously successful at fucking over every type of authority, we would not use it to attempt to control everyone's behavior. Why the venemous seething when someone says "hey, there is some credibility to skipping the escrow system!" Why not let people sell how they want and buy how they want? Why the need to convince everyone that only you are right and everyone should behave like you? To me this is diametrically opposed to everything that Silk Road stands for! Silk Road is about freedom, not about the thought police like some of you think you are.
If I am wrong about this- if I misunderstand business, and economics, and Silk Road- then let the chips fall where they may. Let people vote with their bitcoins. But for the last 20 months people have been voting like a motherfucker for me and my team. If you haven't done so yet, please take a look at my stats.
I am going to go mark down prices some more.
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It's disappointing that a vendor has created a thread in an attempt to justify their reason for requiring buyers to Finalize Early. The Escrow system is in place to protect both parties and should be used as per the Guidelines set out by DPR.To run a successful and therefore profitable business, the vendor will require some capital so they are able to re-up and have money sitting in Escrow, all while continuing to take and process new orders. Any vendor who can't afford to this will eventually go under. One thing's for sure, with a market like this there will always be vendors and buyers who will try to bend the rules and take short cuts in order to make a profit. However, there are rules in place and a set of guidelines which need to be followed and adhered to. If a vendor or a buyer (by FE) choose to work outside the guidelines, then they risk losing their money and will not be helped by SR Support. Like nomad bloodbath posted yesterday in a similar thread about vendor's requiring buyers to FE, he wrote words to the affect of "Whatever you do guys, don't ever Finalize Early for a vendor, regardless of the excuse they give you. Use your common sense people." Uniwiz is correct and I agree with his sentiments below, but flaxceed, while you may have customers who will FE for you now, you will also be losing some new customers through implementing your FE policy. Lots of vendors use Escrow and are happy to, so I can't see why you are not prepared to do so as well.
I used to offer escrow and when people would scam me and I had to raise all my prices it pissed me off to no end. I hate passing on the cost of scamming, but without doing so I would have had to close up shop. My solution is to offer the very best service I possibly can and do FE-only. I work very hard to keep my feedback as high as is humanly possible and I try to be good to people. If someone has a problem with delivery I try to work it out with them in a reasonable way.
A lot of you are pretending that I am a monster who fucks people over. But look at my feedback. As far as Nomad Bloodbath, I disagree with him. I think as this market matures either Silk Road will either be all-FE or they will fix the scamming buyer problem.
One of the biggest issues with all of the "let's not FE for anyone" threads is that it ignores the reality of life here on the Silk Road. The reality is a lot of sellers get scammed by doing escrow and they pass these costs along to other buyers. This is really shitty, but it is what you are demanding when you try to push FE off the map. I am pushing back because I think you are wrong about your opinions and you are ignoring the realities of the Road. I don't want to pass on the cost of scamming buyers and I don't have to!
Flaxceed,as per your previous ban on selling to Australians (I presume that's no longer in place?), because we're all scammers in your book;
I believe you are conflating this idea that you are constantly being scammed with the very real possibility that your shipping and security practices aren't up to scratch.
By all means commence your chest-beating, but there are just way too many international vendors that don't have these problems for this to be the case, as you think it is.
I am 100% to Australia since starting FE only. You can draw your own conclusions about that. As far as saying that all Australians are scammers- that was not me, that was you. I have never once said that.
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Shit sandwich.
He has a right to not wait 17+ days for his money
You have a right to shop elsewhere
::)
Exactamondo Bruce. However, more and more people are beginning to realize the importance of the Escrow system as a preventative measure against them being scammed. This issue of 17+ days can be simply rectified with some capital, something each and every successful business IRL has access to (extra cash reserves, company credit card, bank overdraft, etc) so should a problem present itself, there are steps the vendor can take to rectify it immediately and concentrate their efforts towards what they do best, vending!
This is an interesting quote. And you know, overdraft and credit cards cost money. Plus, whenever a business has to dip into its cash reserves to support you- that costs money too!
Maybe this means that people are finally starting to see what I have been saying. Escrow is not free. Escrow costs money, and sellers who use escrow are loaning you money and charging you for it. Not only the money over time costs, but the scamming costs are passed on to your customers if you use escrow.
I wish some of you could understand some of the most rudimentary concepts of economics. I have another wish while I am at it. I wish that when we have this wonderful free market tool that has been enormously successful at fucking over every type of authority, we would not use it to attempt to control everyone's behavior. Why the venemous seething when someone says "hey, there is some credibility to skipping the escrow system!" Why not let people sell how they want and buy how they want? Why the need to convince everyone that only you are right and everyone should behave like you? To me this is diametrically opposed to everything that Silk Road stands for! Silk Road is about freedom, not about the thought police like some of you think you are.
If I am wrong about this- if I misunderstand business, and economics, and Silk Road- then let the chips fall where they may. Let people vote with their bitcoins. But for the last 20 months people have been voting like a motherfucker for me and my team. If you haven't done so yet, please take a look at my stats.
I am going to go mark down prices some more.
Sorry flaxceed, but I'm not sure you are grasping what I and others are posting here. You seem to be all me, me, me, me and how it will cost you money. Escrow is what the owner of SR has put in place to protect against things such as scammers stealing your bitcoins. Vendors are expected to utilize the Escrow system because it offers protection to both parties should a vendor and buyer be unable to reach a decision about a package not arriving. When a buyer FE, they have in fact confirmed to SR that their order arrived and the buyer was happy with it all, even though it hasn't. It also removes the right of a buyer to get assistance from SR Support. Escrow doesn't cost you money. It's a tool which if utilized correctly, offers some protection for both parties should a resolution be needed. You were fully aware of an Escrow system for SR when you joined up to a vendor's account and would have anticipated buyer's wanting to use it..Buyers FE gives a fake feedback impressions well. If an order is not finalized for 17 days, then the feedback would be on the 2nd or 3rd page of a vendor's feedback on their Homepage. Even if I altered it, no one is going to see it or take any notice. Very few buyers , if any, go back 2-3 pages of a vendor's feedback when making a decision. They'll look at the last 10 or so on page 1 and make a decision from there. Business has many components which all need to flourish if you are to excel and taste success. Real life businesses will factor in any costs they incur plus their margins when determining the retail price customers will need to pay. Retail outlets use credit card and EFTPOS facilities which the vendor pays for plus in regards to on-line shopping, buyers pay for shipping, just as we do on SR. RL businesses must have money behind them to continually operate. If your not turning things over continually, your undoubtedly going to be losing money. Your the vendor and owner of your business. What ever it costs you to provide the service to your customers is your concern. You will need to factor this in when pricing your products and if you find your margins are shrinking and profit dwindling away, perhaps try procuring your products from a different source at a lower price or look a buying in bulk. Escrow is here to stay flaxceed, and SR Administrator, FLUSH, posted today that while it's currently not against the rules to require buyers to FE, he could see that changing in the not too distant future and putting the FE issue to bed, once and for all. There are systems already in place that work well when utilized but if your not happy with the way things work and still want change, you'll be in the minority and could face some uncertainty ahead until this FE shit is finally sorted.
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Imho the no FE rule actually saves me cash. If a "vendor" scams someone out of his BTC by requiring FE thats money out of the pocket of legitimate vendors. After all, you cant spend your BTC twice.
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I understand your points Wadozo. The only part that we disagree on is that escrow is a direct and calculable cost to a business on Silk Road. Also I should say that if SR goes to escrow only, I will certainly respect that but I will hate to raise all of my prices back to the level that they were in order to cover the buyers who use up their valium and then go into resolution to get 50% back. That just sucks, and it is part of the escrow system.
Part of what is at stake is personal integrity and some sellers have it and some don't- likewise, some buyers have it (98% maybe?) and some do not. As far as me saying me, me, me- well, yes. I have the numbers for my business and I know what escrow has cost me. I can't see that data for the next guy so why would I speak for him?
I know how much more I have to sell items for to cover these costs right down to the penny. I would think that everyone here brings their own perspective to the discussion. There isn't any reason to attack someone for that. I am just trying to make a point like the rest of you.
As far as my stealth being shit and whatever else was said- I stand firmly behind my 99.7% feedback, and I am just a hair away from being in the top 25% of money-earners here on Silk Road. So badmouth me all you want, but when people click on me those are the stats that they see. Integrity is part of how I live and this is why I have been successful.
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Imho the no FE rule actually saves me cash. If a "vendor" scams someone out of his BTC by requiring FE thats money out of the pocket of legitimate vendors. After all, you cant spend your BTC twice.
There is not any "no FE rule". This is a myth. There is a prohibition against dealing off of the site and many people have confused this with "no FE".
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And there will never be a no FE rule either. It will also be a guide line in the SR Support FAQ. Don't do it. You can't fix stupid. All we can do is educate people they are giving up that right to fairness, and giving it to the vendor. Is there a cost to escrow, yes. It's worth IMHO. Keep screwing newbies, and blaming somebody else. It's all a game. How many good vendors this week ran off with buyers BTC. One side says they deserve it, the other says "you can trust me"
None of you examples ring true. If even gas station analogy isn't working. The bank don't get free money didn't fly. You have admitted it's a money issue. To have it, and to steal it.
It would be better the buyers band together, find a vendor who will sell the same thing for the same price in escrow. Boycott the rest. Thats how the free market works.
Will there be scabs, sell out buyers. Sure, but who cares? They are taken care of themselves, and you should beware. Why would anyone encourage you to FE, think about it?
Vendors in turn offer enticements, that turn peoples brain's off. A Typical Tony76 vending style. It works, all one has to do is read the forums. FE is the biggest scam problem on these forums. Thats a FACT!
Al we are saying is give FE no chance!
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And there will never be a no FE rule either. It will also be a guide line in the SR Support FAQ. Don't do it. You can't fix stupid. All we can do is educate people they are giving up that right to fairness, and giving it to the vendor. Is there a cost to escrow, yes. It's worth IMHO. Keep screwing newbies, and blaming somebody else. It's all a game. How many good vendors this week ran off with buyers BTC. One side says they deserve it, the other says "you can trust me"
None of you examples ring true. If even gas station analogy isn't working. The bank don't get free money didn't fly. You have admitted it's a money issue. To have it, and to steal it.
It would be better the buyers band together, find a vendor who will sell the same thing for the same price in escrow. Boycott the rest. Thats how the free market works.
Will there be scabs, sell out buyers. Sure, but who cares? They are taken care of themselves, and you should beware. Why would anyone encourage you to FE, think about it?
Vendors in turn offer enticements, that turn peoples brain's off. A Typical Tony76 vending style. It works, all one has to do is read the forums. FE is the biggest scam problem on these forums. Thats a FACT!
Al we are saying is give FE no chance!
It's true that just this week some low-life vendors ran off with money. That sucks. These are not good people. IMHO, what we have is people new to business. They never had a cash register before and now they have one all of a sudden and it is full!!! And they figure hey man I can just stop answering emails. So they go buy a new car stereo and take their girl out for dinner and to a hotel and buy a fat sack. And all of a sudden three days later they are broke. A full cash register don't mean shit. Once the cha-ching stops the bills catch up really quickly and your life sucks. But these vendors aren't people who have the maturity or life experience to know that.