Silk Road forums

Discussion => Silk Road discussion => Topic started by: AnonymousTor on June 17, 2012, 07:43 pm

Title: Sellers who insist on FE - selective scammers?
Post by: AnonymousTor on June 17, 2012, 07:43 pm
I've got a stellar SR record (over 50 transactions, BTC500 spent, no refunds, no auto-FE), and yet every international seller wants FE on things of a certain size. It tends to be people with excellent reps and the best value gear.

I'm scared of FE now as the only times I've had an issue have been when doing so. But these sellers insist it's for their own safety.

How can we ensure both sides are equally protected? Is a seller in the wrong to request FE? I can see where they're coming from, but it's hindering my SR experience. I'd spend 10x the amount of people would ship to me and stay in escrow. There has to be a happy medium...

In the meantime I'm left buying tiny bits locally, for massively inflated prices. Meh.
Title: Re: Sellers who insist on FE - selective scammers?
Post by: AnonymousTor on June 17, 2012, 07:46 pm
Even feedback doesn't help, as they just need to scam 2 of every 100 and it's still a great rating. They could pick the two largest orders to maximise this.

And that's assuming people leave bad feedback at all. This place is so vendor-centric that we're supposed to assume a package that didn't arrive is just one of those things.
Title: Re: Sellers who insist on FE - selective scammers?
Post by: Kappacino on June 18, 2012, 09:14 am
This no doubt does happen.

You've got no choice but to find someone else. Or take the risk. Personally I wouldn't do it if its for a really large amount.

If you've got 50+ transactions and 500btc spent, it's obvious you're legit. Unless you're ordering something thats like 5-10 grand I can't see why a vendor wouldn't trust you.

Find someone else
Title: Re: Sellers who insist on FE - selective scammers?
Post by: zero effect on June 18, 2012, 09:26 am
I would have thought that with a few (10+) transactions and a fair amount of BC spent you would not have to fe anymore. Staying in escrow benefits all involved. Have you asked these buyers that you not FE due to your stats?
Title: Re: Sellers who insist on FE - selective scammers?
Post by: oppyate on June 19, 2012, 12:15 am
I personally Loath FE. I really have only used it once. It was a brand new kid w Zero history. I'd like to see FE only be allowed a Max Number of times for Vendors.
Title: Re: Sellers who insist on FE - selective scammers?
Post by: Frimbarr1212 on June 19, 2012, 12:35 am
Sometimes when you click on a vendors page there's 2 pages of people all leaving Fe feedback. They can't all be new buyers surely.

I'm new myself and didn't have to FE on my second order. Plus you don't have to leave feedback even if you do FE, you can put the feedback in when you get the product.
Title: Re: Sellers who insist on FE - selective scammers?
Post by: gambino on June 19, 2012, 01:03 am
The problem is that vendors get scammed too, especially on big orders.  So I can see both sides of this.  The problem from the vendor point of view is you have an average of 10 BTC per transaction and you want to come and buy 1000 BTC worth of product in one go.

I'm sure if you get to know a vendor over time, you'll no problem getting him to agree to big orders in escrow.  If you're moving that kind of volume, you'll want to develop strong vendor relationships anyway (I'd imagine).
Title: Re: Sellers who insist on FE - selective scammers?
Post by: AnonymousTor on June 20, 2012, 01:24 pm
I would have thought that with a few (10+) transactions and a fair amount of BC spent you would not have to fe anymore. Staying in escrow benefits all involved. Have you asked these buyers that you not FE due to your stats?

The ones who request FE always say it's because either they've been scammed before, or that they can't afford to wait on the money for that long with international shipping.

Although it's rather strange as I know sellers in the USA who can always get stuff to the EU within 4-5 days. It's hardly a huge wait.

But then, I half think a lot of people are operating by getting the money first, then going to buy from their guy, before finally sending the gear on to those who purchase.
Title: Re: Sellers who insist on FE - selective scammers?
Post by: spacewasp on June 20, 2012, 03:31 pm
if they don't trust you, then you shouldn't trust them
Title: Re: Sellers who insist on FE - selective scammers?
Post by: Wazup7 on June 20, 2012, 04:13 pm
My opinion is that vendors are free to request FE from buyers, and buyers are free to decline.  Both parties have their reasons, and are free to take whatever risks they choose to take here.  It simply is not something that can be stopped from a systemic standpoint.  SR has no way of knowing whether a finalization is "early" or "on time".

That being said, a "quality" vendor wouldn't need to rely on FE to manage their finances.  Scamming aside, they know they will be paid, and if they are a regular vendor, as in shipping orders daily, then having funds tied in escrow for a week is really not a big deal.  They are still shipping orders every day, and getting funds released from escrow every day. 

On the other hand, an "occasional" vendor can have good reasons to ask for FE.  If they are only shipping one order a week, and they do get scammed, a much larger proportion of their funds can be lost.  Also, these types of vendors might not even keep their products in stock, so whey they receive an order, they might have to go pick up first and then ship the order.  I wouldn't order from this type of vendor, but I have seen them around.

 I have found that my favorite vendors all happen to be those who allow escrow.  and while I do admit that I have FE'd before, now that I've forged the relationships with the vendors of my favorite products, I see no reason why I would ever FE again.
Title: Re: Sellers who insist on FE - selective scammers?
Post by: Synaptic on June 20, 2012, 04:28 pm
Not necessarily, there are a lot of large sellers on the Silk Road that require FE. You have to look at it from a vendors viewpoint.

As for Finalizing early, if a vendor requires it buy a small amount first, don't risk a large amount of money when you can test the vendor out using smaller amounts.

From a vendors viewpoint, usually the larger vendors require FE and the smaller ones do not. Here is why.

When a vendor has a lot of orders (30-70) in escrow, then he does not have any product (it is on it's way to the customer) and he does not have any money (it is in escrow).

This makes it increasingly hard if the Vendor substantially relies on the income from Silk Road.

Silk Road offered a Loan Service to vendors (still active) but they charge a large amount in interest, and most vendors do not use this tool.

Also trust nobody, and do your research. If you have made it this far, you need to be able to look at a vendors previous record, forum posts and reception, ect. and determine if hey are legitimate; you can't just assume.

The Silk Road implemented a new system of feedback where it is gauged not only on the rating you left but the amount the item costs.

A 1/5 feedback on a $1 item won't do much, but a 1/5 feedback on a $100 item can bring the vendor down a few digits, sometimes 10+ if they are starting out.

Team Synaptic