Silk Road forums
Discussion => Legal => Topic started by: microbabe on August 23, 2013, 01:09 am
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Hey guys, so I've researching all viable solutions to cashing out my coins in the USA (there's not a whole lot of options), and my question is this:
Should I not use MoneyPaks and Reloadable Debit cards at all (or even bank deposits)? I know they are traceable due to your SSN, but even if LE comes knocking, what's wrong with saying 'I am a bitcoin trader, my profits come from fees and market fluctuations, that is all'.
Is there a certain amount of money I should never exceed on a MoneyPak before they get suspicious? Or just stick to person to person cash transactions?
How dumb would it be to go into my bank and ask them about 'trading BTC' and having clients deposit directly into my bank account? I just want to make sure I set up a system for cashing out that is both safe, and relatively quick.
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if you decide to cash out either with MoneyPak or Vanilla Reloadit cards send me a message on the main site - username is itsallubro
im assuming you're talking selling your bitcoins for cash? which is what im interested in.
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keep in mind if u go through local bitcoin u may be selling to a cop who may investigate you. or u could attract unwanted attention one way or another.
edit: dont deposit into bank, you are going to have to pull your capital out to repurchase and there is no way for you to deduct expenses on anything pulled out into the system like a normal business would. you'll have to do everything under the radar if you dont want to attract attention.
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great advice guys. Thanks
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great advice guys. Thanks
Not sure what the advice was other than don't use cash deposit or localbitcoins. What was the takeaway(s) from this discussion?
Cashing out bitcoins is incredibly important; I'd love to know of a good resource about this topic if anyone knows of one.
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From what I read localbitcoins is really your best option, unless you can get lucky and randomly find a guy that needs bitcoins on a weekly/monthly basis.
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I don't see how localbitcoins transactions are any more likely to get you in touch with a cop or otherwise attract unwanted attention when compared to sending prepaid credit cards through the mail to not completely known and trusted parties.
Look at it from this perspective: if you had been into mining back in 2011, and had a stash of BTC that you had been slowly cashing in at opportunistic times, and you were confronted by the options for getting cash for BTC that most people in USA are now faced with, what would you do? The honest miner would sell through localbitcoins more likely than not. Anyone disagree? To me this is good 'scent test' to quickly determine if one type of transaction is inherently safer than another.
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I have found plenty of btc vendors on craigslist. Which seems to be another way to get btc's w/out having to provide to much info.
It has also led me to the theory that for every ten btc vendors you find that are willing to meet in person, 1 is prob a vendor on SR trying to cash out, so it doesn't hurt to small talk your way into finding out if you even have to get as many btc's as needed or can you establish a new connect
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You could also meet the money person who can do nothing for you who is there working for the 10th person, who you assume is a vendor, in a f2f localbitcoin transaction.
Always small talk. Find good sellers, and good buyers. Mining is very interesting, and getting good deals on mining hardware is very good for you also.
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I would think that buying off an online exchange online would be good enough, but that is just my opinion. Sounds like a lot of work trying to find coin locally or using money paks...
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I would think that buying off an online exchange online would be good enough, but that is just my opinion. Sounds like a lot of work trying to find coin locally or using money paks...
It's okay if you're very careful. But, when you get coins off an exchange you have now irretrievably linked your personal identity to a particular bitcoin address. This is problematic to say the least. Exchanges are too vulnerable to subpoenas.
Of course a cop could go after you on localbitcoins.com, but I wonder what the chances of that are? Also, if you sell bitcoin to a cop, there's no reason you even need to reveal who you are. It's not illegal to sell bitcoins and current US regulations only apply if you have mined those coins and then sold them, not to trading per se.
Also, is it just an urban legend or is it true that if you ask a cop if they're LE, they have to be truthful to avoid entrapment? I doubt that's true, but it'd be a great way to screen potential clients. Even with the risk of dealing with LE in a local trade, I still say it's less risky than an exchange.
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I would think that buying off an online exchange online would be good enough, but that is just my opinion. Sounds like a lot of work trying to find coin locally or using money paks...
It's okay if you're very careful. But, when you get coins off an exchange you have now irretrievably linked your personal identity to a particular bitcoin address. This is problematic to say the least. Exchanges are too vulnerable to subpoenas.
Of course a cop could go after you on localbitcoins.com, but I wonder what the chances of that are? Also, if you sell bitcoin to a cop, there's no reason you even need to reveal who you are. It's not illegal to sell bitcoins and current US regulations only apply if you have mined those coins and then sold them, not to trading per se.
Also, is it just an urban legend or is it true that if you ask a cop if they're LE, they have to be truthful to avoid entrapment? I doubt that's true, but it'd be a great way to screen potential clients. Even with the risk of dealing with LE in a local trade, I still say it's less risky than an exchange.
Difficulty of finding coin locally will vary widely by location.
Remember, if you do buy on localbitcoin and then transfer that BTC to an address associated with a SR account, seeing the transaction where the BTC are transferred to a SR account is as far as LE can really go in tracking what you did with that BTC.
If you use that BTC to buy from a vendor, that vendor will not see the same BTC arrive in their wallet when they withdraw from SR.
Nobody watching a particular BTC's movement would be able to attribute to you any further movement of that BTC after you sent it from a localbitcoin wallet to a SR wallet.
If I'm missing something, or if something I've stated here is not accurate, your help in clarifying things would be much appreciated.
PS - LE does not have to answer 'yes i am a cop' if you ask them if they are police, at least not in USA. Total urban legend.
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i use bitcoin-brokers
so far they are quick as hell! and they have a LOW %
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A cop buying bitcoins off you to start an investigation seems about as likely as and effective as a cop ordering your products to try to catch you. Actually its less effective cuz they dont even know youve done anything illegal. Just use a burner phone and dont let them see your vehicle and i dont see how else they would know who you are. Do you really think cops really try that hard to catch people? They have much more effective methods than buying bitcoins off random people because they "might" be drug dealers.
And to clarify what pinnacle said they cant see what you bought on SR, But they most definitely would KNOW you sent them to SR.
http://www.forbes.com/fdc/welcome_mjx.shtml