Silk Road forums
Discussion => Drug safety => Topic started by: stemcell on March 19, 2013, 01:12 am
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Here is what I have compiled so far:
Multi Vitamins pack before an after
Piractem? What dosing and what timing?
200mg 5htp the week leading up to use but not the day of. Then 200mg about 8 hrs after your last drop.
Alot of people probably are not aware of:
DHEA improves mood, stimulates the immune system, and is also an anti stress hormone.
Pregnenolone (which I will start experimenting with soon and updating you all) it is a memeory enhancer and also works in direct corolation with cellular repair primarily in the brain and nerve tissue. it also protects against cerebral function and neuronal injury.
i have a few more but would like to see what everyone else is doing. maybe ill come out with a pre MDMA formula since they have them for pre and post workouts as well as post drinking lol.
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5-HTP ALL the way! I'm sure this topic will get alot of replies stating 5-HTP. Its an awesome recovery supplement. 5-htp is a natural precursor to serotonin, a portion of what you ingest is converted to serotonin. People used to suggest typtophan but 5-htp is more closely related to serotonin than tryptophan and therefor more efficient in conversion. Hope i helped :-)
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I used to eat multivitamine and vitamine C tablets every day a week before i was going to roll, except the day i will roll, no vitamine C
After I come home, i dropped a multivitamine and 2 Vitamine C's
The vitamine C can do miracles to your dilated pupils when you are asleep ;)
I know about 5-HTP, But i have no idea how and where i can buy those.
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I used to eat multivitamine and vitamine C tablets every day a week before i was going to roll, except the day i will roll, no vitamine C
After I come home, i dropped a multivitamine and 2 Vitamine C's
The vitamine C can do miracles to your dilated pupils when you are asleep ;)
I know about 5-HTP, But i have no idea how and where i can buy those.
You can get 5-htp at most any box store in the supplements aisle.
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In my view the pre-loading and post-loading is largely placebo, same to Piractem. I have not come across anything that really support this at all.
Having said that, placebo does not mean ineffective.
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multiviamins and magnesium beforehand
5htp, multi vitamin after
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How Much magnesium before hand? What kind? and why please?
Piractim is a proven brain/ neuro transmitter drug now if it enhances your roll or just helps your recovery or prevention and damage is another story.
If you want to use higher doses of vitamin c go for buffered vitamin c AKA asorbic acid. The buffered molecule makes higher doses less harsh on your stomach or upsetting simply meaning you can take a higher dose without getting nausea.
Im going to try to compile a supplement for pre, during, and post and see if it helps. If so ill offer it very cheap to everyone. it will have medical scientific science backing behind it not just bro science so what im trying to do is compile a list of things we all think work then i will dig indepth to figure out if they can be combined to help us recover better.
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Personally I really don't buy into the whole pre / post loading thing either. People come up with all these random ideas and create reasons why they think it does / should work but no one really knows. My own experience seems to be that if I sleep REALLY good the day after a roll I'm all set. Tested against all sorts of other pills and formulations nothing in my experience beats a bunch of sleep the next day. My girlfriend likes 5HTP but I'm completely convinced that's simply because I told her they were happy pills and so she thinks they help with mood elevation.
As far as digging up research goes there isn't any to find. Not a single scientific study has ever been conducted to potentiate the high or mitigate the harm of an MDMA experience. All you get is a bunch of lab rats stuck with insane doses or rhetorical data by pseudo experts that at best say what has worked for them, often with convincing talk about scientific research that never once mentions MDMA.
Not trying to disuade you at all, just pointing out that bro science is really all we have. I'm taking Piractem right now just to see if it does effect my next roll but even if it does there's nothing conclusive about it. Just did or did not work for me. Heck there's another thread talking up the urban legend that OJ makes the rolls blow up higher which is easier to test and quickly dismiss but still its out there.
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As much as I don't want to say it.. the best thing for my MDMA comedown is having a beer.
I usually eat 400 mg of mdma in two doses when I take it and the worst part for me is falling asleep and the terrible pains in my stomach I get. The best cure for me has always been a beer, and I never drink alcohol. It fills me up and I don't feel sick. I prefer Corona.. lol
The next day I take 1mg xanax, split it in two and pop half in the morning and half at night.. really terrible way to come back I feel like, but there are no other pills.. drinks/food or nootropics that have worked for me.
Have a good time ;)
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2-3 grams of Piracetam taken daily for a couple weeks leading up to rolling has intensified it greatly, in my experience. I've read many anecdotal accounts of Piracetam bringing the "magic" back for people who have lost that special touch MDMA brings.
My current antioxidant stack:
Alpha Lipoic Acid 600-3000mg- not only is it both water and fat soluble, but it also helps replenish other antioxidants.
Vitamin E- 400 IU
grape seed extract- 50-100mg
coenzyme Q10- 50- 300mg
Vitamin C- 1-2 grams
Green tea extract- 100-300mg
Melatonin (a sleep aid but also a potent antioxidant) when you're about to go to bed/trying to go to sleep- .25mg-5mg
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Here's the definitive "MDMA is neurotoxic" thread: http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?topic=66048.0
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Here's the definitive "MDMA is neurotoxic" thread: http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?topic=66048.0
Which is a great thread full of lots of supposition that has nary a single study referenced or quoted done on real live human beings in a controlled setting using only MDMA as a reactive compound. By the third sentence in the post AV, who I am positive is only trying to help people enjoy this magical drug, starts doing what everyone else has to do which is jump to conclusions based on not enough information. I would actually be fine if the statement was:
MDMA in heroic doses is neurotoxic in rats
Because that is what we have the scientific information to support at this time.
Here's an example of a human "study" - The Agony of Ecstasy: Permanent Brain Changes
* Clearnet * http://www.thedoctorwillseeyounow.com/content/mind/art3317.html
Nothing it finds could even come close to reaching the threshold of scientific observation in that it takes some people that said they had done ecstasy and some that said they didn't and then compared MRI scans. At no point was MDMA administered and so we have the word of the participants that they were taking the drug even though most of us here know that what people take in the wild is hardly ever MDMA. Additionally, there's no lifestyle coloration. Did both parties drink? Smoke pot? Take speed? What other drugs? Listen to loud music at raves? There is absolutely nothing scientific about this so called research and yet the doctors involved feel free to jump to conclusions that ensure the party line of "Drugs are bad" can be maintained.
I 100% positively believe that sustained MDMA use can alter brain activity and likely have some lasting, if not permanent, repercussions. However, that's based off people I know and personal experience, not any of the junk science that is passed around like candy to anyone who is willing to overlook the fact that every bit of research out there is either non-controlled human studies or just more MDMA being pumped into rats. Further, if you conducted this same sort of junk science on any drug or substance in existence you could come to any conclusion you wanted because it's not really scientific.
So like I said, I take it all with a grain of salt. We all know that ANYTHING in excess is bad for the human machine. On the off chance this substance is slowly frying my brain and turning me into a vegetable it's a risk I am more than happy to take. I know from my own experience that it's far safer than dozens of other drugs out there handed out by the very people that say this stuff is horrible... never heard of anyone shooting up a school room full of kids because they stopped taking MDMA.
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Nootropics are amazing for both pre-loading and post loading. In my experience they will both enhance the experience and reduce the comedown significantly. I'm also a pretty big fan of green tea and fruit.
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I've tried 5htp, before and after - it didnt do anything for me other than give me strange chest pains. I was taking 100mg a day for a couple of weeks to try and help my seratonin levels recover. I find that a couple of valiums at the end of the night and a nice 12 hour kip leaves me feeling refreshed.
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stemcell, please check out my thread regarding MDMA induced neurotoxicity. It covers all your questions. Much love, brother! :)
http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?topic=66048
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Here's the definitive "MDMA is neurotoxic" thread: http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?topic=66048.0
Which is a great thread full of lots of supposition that has nary a single study referenced or quoted done on real live human beings in a controlled setting using only MDMA as a reactive compound. By the third sentence in the post AV, who I am positive is only trying to help people enjoy this magical drug, starts doing what everyone else has to do which is jump to conclusions based on not enough information. I would actually be fine if the statement was:
MDMA in heroic doses is neurotoxic in rats
Because that is what we have the scientific information to support at this time.
Here's an example of a human "study" - The Agony of Ecstasy: Permanent Brain Changes
* Clearnet * http://www.thedoctorwillseeyounow.com/content/mind/art3317.html
Nothing it finds could even come close to reaching the threshold of scientific observation in that it takes some people that said they had done ecstasy and some that said they didn't and then compared MRI scans. At no point was MDMA administered and so we have the word of the participants that they were taking the drug even though most of us here know that what people take in the wild is hardly ever MDMA. Additionally, there's no lifestyle coloration. Did both parties drink? Smoke pot? Take speed? What other drugs? Listen to loud music at raves? There is absolutely nothing scientific about this so called research and yet the doctors involved feel free to jump to conclusions that ensure the party line of "Drugs are bad" can be maintained.
I 100% positively believe that sustained MDMA use can alter brain activity and likely have some lasting, if not permanent, repercussions. However, that's based off people I know and personal experience, not any of the junk science that is passed around like candy to anyone who is willing to overlook the fact that every bit of research out there is either non-controlled human studies or just more MDMA being pumped into rats. Further, if you conducted this same sort of junk science on any drug or substance in existence you could come to any conclusion you wanted because it's not really scientific.
So like I said, I take it all with a grain of salt. We all know that ANYTHING in excess is bad for the human machine. On the off chance this substance is slowly frying my brain and turning me into a vegetable it's a risk I am more than happy to take. I know from my own experience that it's far safer than dozens of other drugs out there handed out by the very people that say this stuff is horrible... never heard of anyone shooting up a school room full of kids because they stopped taking MDMA.
Aye, there's all this scientific supposition with zero data to back it up. Some people get so technical about it so I can't really debate them, however, I will just come back to saying their claims are unproven. It's the same as the science I see to justify nootropic use and crazy amounts of supplement pill popping regimes and 'stacks' I read about. No human studies to back it up, and none have become superhuman yet.
It takes a lot to make any changes to your brain or your body except in rare circumstances.
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Just eat well every day, and be conscious of maintaining a varied diet, avoiding processed crap as much as possible.
Sleep properly either side of adventures.
That's the best way to keep your boom box well-maintained and resilient. It's served me well through 20+ years adventuring the psychonautical oceans...
Boosting mega-vits has been shown to be questionable at best, and harmful at worst. Same with minerals, e.g. boosting magnesium will displace zinc, suppressing your immune system and lowering your sperm count (if you're so equipped) among other things. We are basically big sloppy equilibria, and don't usually respond well to sudden influxes of weird stuff, which is why drugs work so well ;-)
Your brain is mostly amino acids and fats, so that's what you need to boost, if anything.
Oily fish has been shown to have excellent neuroprotective effects, and most people hardly ever eat any. Naturally-occurring saturated fats (meat and dairy) are likewise very important for maintaining the myelin sheathing around neurons, but again, many people avoid them these days, because of ass-backward health campaigns pushing the "low-fat" bollocks.
Just be varied, there's all sorts of funky little trace minerals & nutrients scattered through the panoply of potential ingredients. Spices alone have some mad alkaloids of their own, most with health benefits. Just don't (as I once did) have a curry packed with turmeric before heading out on a big night. Turns out turmeric is a weak MAOI, and my first pill (about 4 hours later) kicked me like a fucking mule, had me puking and everything. Essentially, an attack of serotonin syndrome. Not badmouthing turmeric either, amazing health benefits from that too.
Remember folks, we too can have it all: good friends, fine foods and delicious drugs! So don't ever short-change yourself with fucking KFC and diet coke 8)
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would ghb help with sleeping after?
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Acetyl L Carnitine has been shown to be neuroprotective against MDMA in the adolescent rat brain.
Reference: (ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19015003) "The present work is the first to successfully demonstrate that pretreatment with ALC exerts effective neuroprotection against the MDMA-induced neurotoxicity at the mitochondrial level, reducing carbonyl formation, decreasing mtDNA deletion, improving the expression of the respiratory chain components and preventing the decrease of 5-HT levels in several regions of the rat brain."
My thinking is if something has been properly studied in lab animals, and there is reason to believe that the animal system is similar to ours, and it is very safe to use, then it earns its way onto the regimen.
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Deprenyl is another substance worthy of your list, Stem -- that is if you subscribe to the idea that strong evidence in lab animals, reasonably extrapolates to humans, and the substance is itself very safe/low risk.
Here's a link to the reference (CLEARNET ALERT) www.jneurosci.org/content/27/38/10203.full.pdf
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I used to do a lot of this different stuff. Now I just preload with a couple grams a day everyday for four days before of dark chocolate, 1200 mg magnesium just before drop, drink with vitamin c. I take one good cap of mdma/mda mix. I dont redose. If I want to extend I play with 2c-b at the end. The next morn its OJ with 900mg Piracetam and ibuprofen. 900mg Piracetam the next few days. This has eliminated my blues and nasty feeling the days after. With minimal supplements. And I roll hard doing this.
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I used to do a lot of this different stuff. Now I just preload with a couple grams a day everyday for four days before of dark chocolate, 1200 mg magnesium just before drop, drink with vitamin c. I take one good cap of mdma/mda mix. I dont redose. If I want to extend I play with 2c-b at the end. The next morn its OJ with 900mg Piracetam and ibuprofen. 900mg Piracetam the next few days. This has eliminated my blues and nasty feeling the days after. With minimal supplements. And I roll hard doing this.
I hear you, Stinkybreeze. I've heard good anecdotal stuff about choco preloads. You've got simplicity going for you, that's for sure. But it's hard to know how much protection is going on with your current regimen. Piracetam does seem to have evidence (albeit mostly animal models), and has been shown to reverse damage from alcohol, but just feeling an absence of nastiness afterword may not be evidence of a lack of damage.
I think Vitamin C is a great antioxidant, but can anyone out there cite any experimental evidence of its protective effect with MDMA?
There is also evidence for 5HTP post load protection.
I just want to keep people safe and enjoying themselves.