Silk Road forums
Discussion => Drug safety => Topic started by: PsilocybinReality on July 13, 2013, 02:19 pm
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Hello there people.
So I have been hanging out on a certain imageboard, and there has been some big discussion about RC and deepweb vendors selling rare lysergamides that are analogues of LSD.
In the past, these chemicals have been very rare due to the fact that they require many of the same highly controlled precursors used to make LSD. For some reason though, people both on the clearnet and the deepweb are now reportedly selling them (I however have only been able to find some AL-LAD for sale on a deepweb site that was not SR).
If they are the real thing, my concern that results from this has to do with the legitimacy of what will be put on blotters and sold as LSD. As I'm sure many of you are aware, in much of Europe and the U.S, research chemicals have been bought with the intention of being put onto blotters and sold as LSD. Mainly, it has been DOx and 25-x-NBOMe compounds.
While in many places, this fake LSD has dominated the market, it has been relatively easily to identify. NBOMe numbs the tongue and is not orally active, often the blotters used to lay these drugs are a lot bigger than the ones used for LSD, NBOMe/DOx blotters will always have a taste, so if you get a blotter that doesn't you can be pretty sure it's LSD, the drugs have different durations, come up times, etc, etc.
The best way to identify LSD however, is with an Ehrlich's reagent. These can test for the presence of an indole ring and thus rule out the possibility of all phenethylamines including NBOMe and DOx. Unfortunately, if these new lysergamides are being distributed as LSD, an Ehrlich's reagent will not be able to tell the difference as all lysergamides contain an indole ring.
It can also be assumed that many of the other indicators for identifying LSD will also become useless, as these drugs will be potent at submiligram doses and won't have a taste, they can be put on small blotters, they're orally active, etc, etc, and they are likely to have similar durations and come up times to LSD. It is also likely that the effects of some of them will seem indistinguishable from LSD to even an experienced psychonaut.
So, if they're so similar to LSD, why should we be worried about being sold them? Safety. LSD is known to be physically safe; these chemicals are not. It is highly likely that some of these new lysergamides could do all kinds of damage to our minds and bodies that we will not know about until someone does extensive research into them, and yet we may never know whether what we're buying is real LSD or not. It seems likely to me, that if these chemicals flood the LSD market, people will be hospitalised or even die due to overdoses, allergic reactions or bad interactions with other drugs people may be using.
Now, it seems for any responsible psychonaut, there is one option left: chemical analysis. I believe there are some labs in the Netherlands to whom you can send your drugs, and they will identify whatever molecules they can find in the sample you send them. In this case, we'd presumably have to buy LSD in bulk (say a 1/4, 1/2 or whole sheet at a time), and then send a couple of hits off to make sure everything is legit. Of course, this raises issues with storage, but LSD will often stay potent for years if stored properly in a freezer.
My only other concern is this may disincentivise people from producing LSD at all, when they can just buy large amounts of these quasi-legal compounds from Chinese RC vendors at ridiculously low prices and then just lay them on blotter paper.
So, what do you guys think? Do you think these rare lysergamides that people are claiming to sell are legit, and to what extent do you fear their effects on the LSD market? Is lab analysis the only hope left for those dedicated to the wonderful LSD?
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I'd also be concerned about the legitimacy of somebody selling an LSD analogue; I feel that it could be a great tactic to coerce somebody into again buying chemical substitutes like NBOMe or DOx (Oh, they're selling LSV.. Well, it must be legit, because why would anyone fake such an obscure chemical?)
There's a big drama thread revolving around a time when I accidentally ordered 'LSB' thinking the title had been 'LSD'- and then after the 'LSB' was shipped, the seller told me that it was actually 'LSV.' Meanwhile the substance I ingested had very minimal effects, only some slight open-eye hallucinations, and not much more. According to the minimal info on LSV, it should've been a more potent, albeit shorter, acid trip- which it wasn't.
@PsilocybinReality- do you happen to have any good resources on all the LSD analogues? Wikipedia is rarely helpful, and I don't find much on Erowid.
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My only other concern is this may disincentivise people from producing LSD at all, when they can just buy large amounts of these quasi-legal compounds from Chinese RC vendors at ridiculously low prices and then just lay them on blotter paper.
While this is definitely a concern of many (maybe even the majority) of producers, luckily LSD is still a substance that has a certain "integrity" behind itself. Meaning that there are still many people that sell LSD that do it as a sort of mission, and not only for money (from the times of Grateful Dead). There will always remain a group of people that will produce real LSD no matter what. Maybe it will be more difficult to find, but you can rest assured that for LSD the probability of it to really disappear for some other unknown chemical is almost nil, just for this.
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My only other concern is this may disincentivise people from producing LSD at all, when they can just buy large amounts of these quasi-legal compounds from Chinese RC vendors at ridiculously low prices and then just lay them on blotter paper.
While this is definitely a concern of many (maybe even the majority) of producers, luckily LSD is still a substance that has a certain "integrity" behind itself. Meaning that there are still many people that sell LSD that do it as a sort of mission, and not only for money (from the times of Grateful Dead). There will always remain a group of people that will produce real LSD no matter what. Maybe it will be more difficult to find, but you can rest assured that for LSD the probability of it to really disappear for some other unknown chemical is almost nil, just for this.
I agree.
Also, as I have recently had the opportunity to try AL-LAD, I must say that although it is indistinguishable from LSD through physical means (no taste, orally active, similar dose range, etc), the trip itself was significantly different. Also, the vendor laid it on blotter that said AL-LAD on it to prevent the blotter from being sold as LSD or other drug, which I think is the ethical way to distribute these exotic LSD analogues.
I don't think any drug will fully replace LSD, the same way no drug can truly replace MDMA. Both have very deep spiritual/emotional qualities other drugs can only TRY to mimic. It's just not the same. Sorry, but I can definitely tell the difference between MDMA and M1. I can also tell the difference between LSD and DOC or LSD and AL-LAD. They're different drugs and have their own time and place. I would venture to say that this is the main reason that you needn't worry about too much dilution of the LSD market. Plus, on SR we have the LSD Avengers :)
I think AL-LAD has very similar, if not the same, safety profile as LSD. The dose is around the same (maybe slightly more potent), and the effects were very close, though it was slightly more one-sided, like wearing rose-colored glasses. It did not have the fully dualistic nature that LSD has, where you can spend a full hour in hell and then a full hour in heaven only to return to hell if you don't know what you're doing (does that make sense?).
Ok, done. Just my .02 btc :)
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the lysergide analogues i am selling are properly laid on labeled blotter paper to prevent this. if you ignore the fact that blotter says AL-LAD on every square and the molecule structure on the back then you have no place taking drugs anyway. you guys act like people are passing off LSZ and AL-LAD as LSD. i see no point. these products are rarer than LSD and sell just as well if not better with higher profit margin. everyone i know who has sold it (and i know alot since i know the guy manufacturing and many of his custies) have not tried such sillyness. i post HPLC and LC/MS analysis pictures to prove products are what i claim. i have withdrawn my offer to sell pure xtal to just about anybody and no one ever took up the offer anyway. anyone with access to pure xtal is unlikely to be trying to pass it off as LSD.
nbome problem has been around for a long time and we aren't looking to reproduce it. we are simply bringing novel ergoloids to the market and many people are truly grateful for the chance to try such rare chemicals.
also i can tell you 100% the chinese are not producing the novel ergoloids. i wouldn't trust them to produce ergoloids. they produce high quantity with sub quality and ergoloids need to be very pure or they can produce poisonous effects which no one wants for anyone.