Silk Road forums
Discussion => Drug safety => Topic started by: Psychonaut007 on January 10, 2012, 03:36 pm
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I have just ordered nn-dmt and i really cant wait to try it. I'm just wondering if anybody here could tell the difference between the effects on 5-meo-dmt and normal nn-dmt when smoking it.
(Freebase).
Ive done 5-meo-dmt atleast 100 times, and its really fucking great. But because i didnt have any sources before know i think thats why i havent done dmt. Finally dmt is on its way. (As they are saying, dmt will find you).
I'm not gonna expect too much, but most people say this is the greatest drug or psychedelic substanses by far, Im just wondering if it actually is for you, or if you find 5-meo-dmt better, and in what ways would you prefer dmt versus 5-meo-dmt.
And have anyone here tried walters dmt? I ordered from him cause he seems really professional. Whats the difference between walters dmt and elvis dmt?
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5-MeO-DMT is NOT DMT, it is an analog of DMT!!
the avg dose of smoked dmt free base is between 15 and 60mg
avg dose of 5-MeO-DMT is 5-20mg smoked or 10-30mg snorted
DMT free base is an orange/pink (ish) crystalline material and a mothball odor
5-Me0O-DMT is a white powder that is generally 5-10 times STRONGER than DMT!!!
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elvis' listing is for DMT free base... but his picture depicts 5-MeO-DMT...
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DMT free base is an orange/pink (ish) crystalline material and a mothball odor
5-Me0O-DMT is a white powder
I feel that's a very general statement. DMT can be a wide variety of colors/tints depending on the techniques used to extract it. From what I'm aware it can be anywhere from a clean white to sludgy brown, yellow/orange/red included.
I have used Elvis' product before and it is definitely NN-DMT and looks as shown in his listing. He previously had some with a slight yellow tint, the last batch I had from his was a near solid white.
Psychonaut007, what I've heard about 5-meo is the trips can have a "darker" tone to them. I haven't used 5-meo personally so I can't compare, but if you enjoy 5-meo then I expect you'd enjoy NN-DMT.
Can't find the thread right now, but I believe in Off-Topic there's a thread about the most potent psychedelic and I posed a similar question to 'mrgrey' who also has experience with 5-meo. Wish I could provide more info, but other than describing the general DMT trip I'm not sure what I can offer.
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DMT is far superior to 5-meo-dmt in my opinion. The 5-methoxylated counterpart is much less visual and much harder on the body. I always feel like I'm being crushed. That's not to say that n,n is comfortable, either, but it's not as uncomfortable, and the effects are much more enjoyable imo.
In relation to walter's DMT, that's the source I used. It's absolutely amazing. Very high-quality, and does exactly what you want it to. I'm interested in if anybody has used his B. Caapi alkaloids.
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From TiHKAL---
SYNTHESIS : (from N,N,N-trimethyltryptammonium iodide, dimethyltryptamine methiodide, DMT·CH3I): This quaternary salt is prepared from tryptamine and methyl iodide. To a stirred solution of 3 g tryptamine in 30 mL IPA there was added 10 g methyl iodide. Cream-colored solids appeared immediately and, after 12 h stirring at room temperature, these were removed by filtration, washed twice with IPA and warm isopropanol, and air dried to constant weight. There was thus obtained 1.81 g N,N,N-trimethyltryptammonium iodide. Recrystallization of an analytical sample using acetonitrile gave a white crystalline product with a mp of 210-211 °C. IR (in cm-1): 767, 919, 953, 978, 1105, with a sharp stretch at 3400. In principle, DMT is contained in the filtrate along with NMT and tryptamine itself. The tryptamine can be removed based on its ether insolubility and the NMT by its conversion to the benzamide with acetic anhydride or benzoyl chloride. The remaining basic material is largely DMT which can be further purified as the picrate salt. The yield is minuscule, and better results are obtained by the demethylation of this salt.
The demethylation of the iodide salt: Under an inert atmosphere, a solution of 0.40 g N,N,N-trimethyltryptammonium iodide in 5 mL THF was treated with 1.5 mL of 1M LiEt3BH in THF and held at reflux temperature for 9 h. After cooling, the mixture was acidified with dilute HCl and the THF removed under vacuum. The residue was suspended in dilute NaOH and extracted with Et2O. The extracts were pooled, and the solvent removed under vacuum to provide a residue of 0.12 g N,N-dimethyltryptamine (DMT) as a crystalline solid, with a mp of 57-59 °C. IR (in cm-1): 732, 740, 811, 859, 1011, 1037, 1110, 1171. The MS is discussed below.
The demethylation of the chloride salt: A hot aqueous solution of N,N,N-trimethyltryptammonium iodide was treated with an excess of freshly precipitated AgCl, and all was boiled gently for 15 min. The mixed silver halides were removed by filtration, and the filtrate stripped of H2O as rapidly as possible. To the residue there was added a small amount of MeOH follow by acetone until the crystallization of N,N,N-trimethyltryptammonium chloride was complete. It had a mp of 193 °C (80%), and it is considerably more water soluble than the starting iodide. This salt was pyrolysed under hard vacuum and the residue distilled. This distillate was dissolved in a small amount of methanol and acidified with dilute nitric acid. A small amount of insoluble material was removed by filtration, the aqueous phase washed with CHCl3, made basic with aqueous NaOH, and extracted with CHCl3. The solvent was removed under vacuum, and the residue treated with a hot solution of picric acid. This was decanted from a little insoluble material, and slowly cooled to provide the picrate of DMT as yellow needles with a mp of 167 °C. An aqueous suspension of this picrate was made basic with an excess of aqueous NaOH, extracted with Et2O, and the solvent removed under vacuum to provide a pale yellow residue that crystallized. This was pressed on a porous plate and washed with petroleum ether to give N,N-dimethyltryptamine (DMT) as an off-white solid with a mp of 47 °C.
The demethylation of the thiophenolate salt: A suspension of 2.5 g N,N,N-trimethyltryptammonium iodide in 25 mL MeOH was brought into solution by heating, and treated with 1.0 g Ag2O. The mixture was heated for 10 min on the steam bath, the solids removed by filtration and washed with an additional 20 mL MeOH. The methanol solutions were treated with 1.0 g thiophenol and the solvent was removed under vacuum. The resulting viscous oil (2.12 g) was heated with a flame to the reflux point and there was extensive bubbling. After 5 min, the light colored reaction mixture was cooled to room temperature, dissolved in 50 mL CH2Cl2, and extracted with two 25 mL portions of dilute HCl. These were pooled (pale yellow color), made basic with 5% aqueous NaOH and extracted with 3x25 mL CH2Cl2. After removal of the solvent from the pooled extracts, the residue (an amber oil, 1.04 g) was distilled at the KugelRohr. A white oil distilled over at 130-140 °C at 0.1 mm/Hg, and crystallized spontaneously. This distillate weighed 0.77 g, and was recrystallized from boiling hexane after decanting the solution from a small amount of insolubles. There was thus obtained 0.40 g of dimethyltryptamine (DMT) with a mp 67-68 °C. The distillate contained about 3% of 2-Methyl-1,2,3,4-tetrahydro-b-carboline (parent peak mass 186, major peak mass 186) as an impurity which was lost upon recrystallization.
(from tryptamine and ethyl formate) A suspension of 1.0 g tryptamine in 50 mL ethyl formate was held at reflux for 15 h during which time the mixture became homogeneous. The volatiles were removed under vacuum, yielding an oily residue of the formamide. This may be purified by distillation but this unpurified product can serve satisfactorily in the following reaction. This residue was dissolved in 50 mL anhydrous THF and added, dropwise, to a solution of 1.0 M LAH in THF (40 mL, 40 mmole) which had been diluted with another 50 mL THF. After the addition was complete the reaction mixture was heated under reflux for 15 hours. Reflux was continued as a solution of 40 mL 1.0 M freshly distilled ethyl formate in THF was added dropwise over the course of 2 h. Heating was discontinued and the reaction mixture was quenched by the addition of excess solid sodium sulfate decahydrate at room temperature. The reaction mixture was filtered and the filtrate was concentrated under vacuum to yield 1.15 g pure N,N-dimethyltryptamine as an oil which solidified upon storage in the freezer. The material can be recrystallized from hexane to give white crystals with a mp 67 °C.
(from indole) To a well stirred solution of 10 g indole in 150 mL anhydrous Et2O there was added, dropwise over the course of 30 min, a solution of 11 g oxalyl chloride in 150 mL anhydrous Et2O. Stirring was continued for an additional 15 min during which time there was the separation of indol-3-ylglyoxyl chloride as a yellow crystalline solid. This intermediate was removed by filtration and washed with Et2O. It deteriorates at a significant rate at room temperature, and should be used as soon as possible after preparation. The diethylether in this synthesis can be replaced advantageously with t-butylmethylether (TBME) which works well as a solvent in this reaction, but which avoids the potential danger associated with peroxide formation. The above indol-3-ylglyoxyl chloride was added to 20 g anhydrous dimethylamine in 150 mL cold, stirred anhydrous Et2O. When the color had largely been discharged, there was added an excess of 2N HCl, the mixture was cooled, and the resulting solids were removed by filtration. These were recrystallized from EtOAc to give, after air drying, 14.6 g (79%) indol-3-yl N,N-dimethylglyoxylamide with a mp of 159-161 °C.
A solution of 14 g indol-3-yl-N,N-dimethylglyoxylamide in 350 mL anhydrous THF was added, slowly, to 19 g LAH in 350 mL THF which was well stirred and held at reflux temperature under an inert atmosphere. After the addition was complete, reflux was maintained for an additional 16 h, the reaction mixture cooled, and the excess hydride destroyed by the cautious addition of wet dioxane. The formed solids were removed by filtration, washed with hot THF, the filtrate and washings combined, dried over anhydrous MgSO4, and the solvent removed under vacuum. The residue was dissolved in hot petroleum ether. On cooling, crystals of N,N-dimethyltryptamine (DMT) were formed, filtered free of solvent, and air dried, weighing 11.1 g (91%). There have been reports of byproducts from this LAH procedure when performed in Et2O that can compromise the purity of the final product. To obtain the HCl salt of DMT, the residue was dissolved in anhydrous Et2O and saturated with anhydrous hydrogen chloride. The resulting crystals were recrystallized from benzene/methanol to give N,N-dimethyltryptamine hydrochloride with a mp of 165-167 °C. The yield from 14 g of the amide was 13.3 g of the salt.
DOSAGE : >350 mg (orally)
60 - 100 mg (intramuscularly)
60 - 100 mg (subcutaneously)
60 - 100 mg (smoking)
4 - 30 mg (intravenously)
DURATION : Up to 1h
QUALITATIVE COMMENTS : (with 150 mg, orally) "No observable psychic or vegetative effects."
(with 250 mg, orally) "It was inactive."
(with 350 mg, orally) "Completely without effect either physiological or psychological."
(with 100 mg, via the buccal mucosa) "Numbness at the site, but no central effects."
(with 20 mg, intramuscularly) "I began to see patterns on the wall that were continuously moving. They were transparent, and were not colored. After a short period these patterns became the heads of animals, a fox, a snake, a dragon. Then kaleidoscopic images appeared to me in my inner eye, fantastically beautiful and colored."
(with 30 mg, intramuscularly) "There was eye dilation and, subjectively, some perception disturbances."
(with 50 mg, intramuscularly) "I feel strange, everything is blurry. I want my mother, I am afraid of fainting, I can't breathe."
(with 60 mg, intramuscularly) "I don't like this feeling -- I am not myself. I saw such strange dreams a while ago. Strange creatures, dwarfs or something; they were black and moved about. Now I feel as if I am not alive. My left hand is numb. As if my heart would not beat, as if I had no body, no nothing. All I feel are my left hand and stomach. I don't like to be without thoughts."
(with 75 mg, intramuscularly) "The third or fourth minute after the injection vegetative symptoms appeared, such as tingling sensation, trembling, slight nausea, mydriasis, elevation of the blood pressure and increase of the pulse rate. At the same time, eidetic phenomena, optical illusions, pseudohallucinations, and later real hallucinations, appeared. The hallucinations consisted of moving, brilliantly colored oriental motifs, and later I saw wonderful scenes altering very rapidly. The faces of people seemed to be masks. My emotional state was elevated sometimes up to euphoria. At the highest point I had compulsive athetoid movements in my left hand. My consciousness was completely filled by hallucinations, and my attention was firmly bound to them; therefore I could not give an account of the events happening to me. After 3/4 to 1 hour the symptoms disappeared, and I was able to describe what had happened.
(with 80 mg, intramuscularly) "My perceptual distortions were visual in nature and with my eyes closed I could see colored patterns, primarily geometrical patterns moving very fast, having sometimes very deep emotional content and connotation. My blood pressure went up and my pupils were dilated."
(with 30 mg smoked) "I spread it evenly on a joint of Tanacetum vulgare and melted it with a heat lamp. In about 30 seconds a strong light-headedness starts, with a feeling of temporal pressure. Some yellowing of the visual field. There was nothing for me to do because I had to turn complete control over to the drug. Off the plateau in 3-4 minutes and the fact that the radio was on became apparent. I was out in a few more minutes."
(with 60 mg smoked) "We did it together. Swift entry -- head overwhelmed -- elaborate and exotic. Slightly threatening patterns -- no insight -- slight sense of cruelty and sharpness between us, but enjoying. His face, as before with MDA, demonic but pleasantly so. He said he saw my face as a mask. He asked me to let him see my teeth. I laughed -- aware that laughter slightly not-funny. Heavy, massive intoxication. Time extension extraordinary. What seemed like 2 hrs was about 30 minutes."
(with 60 mg smoked) "Rapid onset, and in a completely stoned isolation in about a minute for about three minutes. Slow return but continued afterglow (pleasant) for thirty minutes. Repeated three times, with no apparent tolerance or change in chronology. Easily handled. The intoxication is of limited usefulness but the residues are completely relaxing,"
(with 100 mg, smoked) "As I exhaled I became terribly afraid, my heart very rapid and strong, palms sweating. A terrible sense of dread and doom filled me -- I knew what was happening, I knew I couldn't stop it, but it was so devastating; I was being destroyed -- all that was familiar, all reference points, all identity -- all viciously shattered in a few seconds. I couldn't even mourn the loss -- there was no one left to do the mourning. Up, up, out, out, eyes closed, I am at the speed of light, expanding, expanding, expanding, faster and faster until I have become so large that I no longer exist -- my speed is so great that everything has come to a stop -- here I gaze upon the entire universe."
(with 15 mg, intravenously) "An almost instantaneous rush began in the head and I was quickly scattered. Rapidly moving and intensely colored visuals were there, and I got into some complex scenes. There were few sounds, and those that were there were not of anyone talking. I was able to continue to think clearly."
(with 30 mg, intravenously) "I was hit harder that I had ever been when smoking the stuff. The onset was similar, but the euphoria was less."
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DMT is far superior to 5-meo-dmt in my opinion. The 5-methoxylated counterpart is much less visual and much harder on the body. I always feel like I'm being crushed. That's not to say that n,n is comfortable, either, but it's not as uncomfortable, and the effects are much more enjoyable imo.
In relation to walter's DMT, that's the source I used. It's absolutely amazing. Very high-quality, and does exactly what you want it to. I'm interested in if anybody has used his B. Caapi alkaloids.
Have you ever taken 5-meo-dmt. 5-meo-dmt is fucking incredible. DMT and 5-meo-dmt are very different experiences but saying that DMT is far superior to 5-meo-dmt is simply wrong. 5-meo-dmt is a more comfortable much more chill version that is much more mental. It has simply AMAZING effects on music and it makes some good dubstep sound AMAZING.
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I've had Moon Unit's N,N DMT before. Good stuff. Anyone who got his samples, big ups. Enjoy 'em
I'll be getting some of twolips' 5-MeO (Foxy, I would have ordered it from you but you didn't have any 5-MeO listings up at the time)
So I'll be able to comment on the difference by sometime this week hopefully :)
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No disrespect, but I personally second that DMT is far superior to 5-MeO-DMT. I was a big fan of 5-MeO-DMT, but the intensity of the onset is beyond my liking. Once the effects set in, I actually got up and went for a walk around my friends neighborhood, and it was quite beautiful. I find DMT to be much more relaxing than 5-MeO, and usually more enjoyable because of this. On a low dosage, DMT has some interesting visuals, an anti-anxyolytic effect, and increased "head space". On higher dosages, you can go anywhere.
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DMT is far superior to 5-meo-dmt in my opinion. The 5-methoxylated counterpart is much less visual and much harder on the body. I always feel like I'm being crushed. That's not to say that n,n is comfortable, either, but it's not as uncomfortable, and the effects are much more enjoyable imo.
In relation to walter's DMT, that's the source I used. It's absolutely amazing. Very high-quality, and does exactly what you want it to. I'm interested in if anybody has used his B. Caapi alkaloids.
Have you ever taken 5-meo-dmt. 5-meo-dmt is fucking incredible. DMT and 5-meo-dmt are very different experiences but saying that DMT is far superior to 5-meo-dmt is simply wrong. 5-meo-dmt is a more comfortable much more chill version that is much more mental. It has simply AMAZING effects on music and it makes some good dubstep sound AMAZING.
Let's leave it to a difference in brain chemistry. 5-MeO makes me extremely paranoid, and I'm always afraid that I'm going to die. DMT usually treats me much better.
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No disrespect, but I personally second that DMT is far superior to 5-MeO-DMT. I was a big fan of 5-MeO-DMT, but the intensity of the onset is beyond my liking. Once the effects set in, I actually got up and went for a walk around my friends neighborhood, and it was quite beautiful. I find DMT to be much more relaxing than 5-MeO, and usually more enjoyable because of this. On a low dosage, DMT has some interesting visuals, an anti-anxyolytic effect, and increased "head space". On higher dosages, you can go anywhere.
It reminds me a lot of a MDAI trippy roll and it has that WOAH WHAT THE HELL IS GOING on that I really like.
Honestly they are completely different drugs. Comparing any 5-meo to its non 5-meo equivalent is like comparing apples to oranges. For example DIPT and 5-meo-dipt are completely different drugs as is AMT and 5-meo-AMT.
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They are different drugs so it's impossible to clearly define which is better than the other... but I personally prefer some good ol' fashioned crystalline DMT. While were stacking them against each other, we might as well throw 5-MeO-DiPT into the mix... because foxy methoxy is fun to say. ;)
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They are different drugs so it's impossible to clearly define which is better than the other... but I personally prefer some good ol' fashioned crystalline DMT. While were stacking them against each other, we might as well throw 5-MeO-DiPT into the mix... because foxy methoxy is fun to say. ;)
I just had 4 people try 5-meo-dmt and they all thought it was much more introspective and fun than n,n-dmt.
What I like about 5-meo-dmt is that you can walk around and have amazing open eye visuals and how everything just melds together.
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i dont like 5 Meo DMT .. maybe i did too much or just a pussy :P
something about it had an overtone of death. i felt like i was dead but my body just didnt realize it yet. really weird hard to explain. maybe hit it too hard .. not much visuals .. except when i was on LSD.. not my cup of tea
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OK, yes, DMT (any kind) has an overtone of Death (and Rebirth). You can literally go to the edge of Death, or beyond (And in some cases, you can even return, if you want to return enough).. Also there is a tone of life. I can see how the heavy physical load that can occur with 5-MeO-DMT (which I will note is ridiculously potent stuff compared to DMT. Very easy to take an overwhelming amount) could be unpleasant.
having actually had both N,N-DMT and 5-MeO-DMT now to compare, I'd say that I found 5-MeO less visual, and more intense physically. Also, I'm not sure how to describe it properly, but I found the 5-MeO-DMT 'faster'. Not in its length of activity, but in way time was perceived on it. Things seemed to happen more slowly.
Both were pleasant experiences for me. Both had some common elements:
A sensation of 'melting' into my surroundings.
sexual excitement.
a sense of overwhelming reality. (This one is hard to describe. Everything felt much more real, present, and extant)
a sensation of becoming less dense.
increase in inter-dimensional contact.
I am curious to mix them, and also to try each with the addition of harmala alkaloids
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OK, yes, DMT (any kind) has an overtone of Death (and Rebirth). You can literally go to the edge of Death, or beyond (And in some cases, you can even return, if you want to return enough).. Also there is a tone of life. I can see how the heavy physical load that can occur with 5-MeO-DMT (which I will note is ridiculously potent stuff compared to DMT. Very easy to take an overwhelming amount) could be unpleasant.
having actually had both N,N-DMT and 5-MeO-DMT now to compare, I'd say that I found 5-MeO less visual, and more intense physically. Also, I'm not sure how to describe it properly, but I found the 5-MeO-DMT 'faster'. Not in its length of activity, but in way time was perceived on it. Things seemed to happen more slowly.
Both were pleasant experiences for me. Both had some common elements:
A sensation of 'melting' into my surroundings.
sexual excitement.
a sense of overwhelming reality. (This one is hard to describe. Everything felt much more real, present, and extant)
a sensation of becoming less dense.
increase in inter-dimensional contact.
I am curious to mix them, and also to try each with the addition of harmala alkaloids
I hear 5-meo-dmt is very good orally. Its considered to be active orally even without MAOIs. Railing it is also fun, but those crystals can be rough to snort (still better than N,N,DMT).
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I hear 5-meo-dmt is very good orally. Its considered to be active orally even without MAOIs. Railing it is also fun, but those crystals can be rough to snort (still better than N,N,DMT).
I didn't try orally while I had some around, as I had not heard of any oral activity until now. Though, its not out of the realm of possibility certainly. 4-HO-DMT (Psilocin) is of course orally active... Did you mean buccal or sublingual administration as opposed to actual ingestion?
I did try a insufflating a small amount, but mostly what I had was 'smoked'. Not being particularly used to insufflation (this would have been my third or fourth experience with it ever with any substance), I can't really make much in the way of comparative comments.. It made my nose itch, but wasn't particularly painful. The post-nasal drip was rather intensely bitter, causing my eyes to water (and as I said, this was from a tiny bump or so, not a line).. Considering I did not find the taste of vaporized 5-MeO-DMT to be unpleasant, I did not explore this method any further.
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I've always been a fan of the drop your piece and stare effect of DMT. I'd rather not roam around and be able to "function." It's much safer to be catapulted into space when not actually physically moving!
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Hmm well I've never done DMT, but, I ordered some 5-meo-dmt from anon1, 100mg. I don't have a scale, so I divided the powder that came in the bag into 3 piles, all close to equal, with one of them being ever so slightly smaller than the other 2. I railed the smaller pile, but it still should have been at least 20-25mg. I'm skinny, 150 lbs, and I'm usually sensitive to drugs, so I was expecting to get hit pretty hard, and I was actually pretty disappointed. I just felt a little different for a little while then had a headache... I don't think it was the quality of anon1's product though, because a lot of people said it was good. I got some really slight thought changes that felt reminiscent of other tryptamines I've had, but not much else. Any thoughts?
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Hmm well I've never done DMT, but, I ordered some 5-meo-dmt from anon1, 100mg. I don't have a scale, so I divided the powder that came in the bag into 3 piles, all close to equal, with one of them being ever so slightly smaller than the other 2. I railed the smaller pile, but it still should have been at least 20-25mg. I'm skinny, 150 lbs, and I'm usually sensitive to drugs, so I was expecting to get hit pretty hard, and I was actually pretty disappointed. I just felt a little different for a little while then had a headache... I don't think it was the quality of anon1's product though, because a lot of people said it was good. I got some really slight thought changes that felt reminiscent of other tryptamines I've had, but not much else. Any thoughts?
smoke it...
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Hmm well I've never done DMT, but, I ordered some 5-meo-dmt from anon1, 100mg. I don't have a scale, so I divided the powder that came in the bag into 3 piles, all close to equal, with one of them being ever so slightly smaller than the other 2. I railed the smaller pile, but it still should have been at least 20-25mg. I'm skinny, 150 lbs, and I'm usually sensitive to drugs, so I was expecting to get hit pretty hard, and I was actually pretty disappointed. I just felt a little different for a little while then had a headache... I don't think it was the quality of anon1's product though, because a lot of people said it was good. I got some really slight thought changes that felt reminiscent of other tryptamines I've had, but not much else. Any thoughts?
smoke it...
Definitely smoke it.