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Discussion => Drug safety => Topic started by: Rush Limbo on July 15, 2012, 01:18 pm

Title: Long term opiate use / side-effects?
Post by: Rush Limbo on July 15, 2012, 01:18 pm
Please help me out here, I think I may have a problem, but would like to ask the community...

So last year, about 10-11 months ago I was diagnosed with herniated disks in my lower back, and have been on various pain meds to manage the pain since surgery is not an option for me: Vicodin ES, Lortab 500-10, Dilaudid 8mg; I've also ordered Oxys from the road, but it's been time since I nodded on Oxy.

Anyways, I notice that almost every day when I wake up I feel like shit. I'm tired even after sleeping 8 hours, my muscles ache a little, my back hurts, I feel like my mood is shit, I find it hard to concentrate on job; I basically feel like I'm either coming down with a cold/flu, or like I'm hanged over. Now, just one or two pills fixes it all, and I feel "normal": energetic, pain free, relaxed, and all the good stuff.

So I wonder, is my shitty feeling in the morning due to my back issues (I still get frequent sciatic nerve inflammations, and my back and leg hurts like hell, but that happens once a month or less) or is it that I've developed a physical dependency on opiates and basically the feeling shitty is due to my body needing a pill or two?

As of last few weeks, I take 1 or 2 Lortabs 500-10 a day, so that's not a strong dose. I took 90 8mg Dilaudids over the last 8 weeks, but I ran out few weeks ago and I don't really miss them either. See, my opiate intake is really small I think, so I'm not sure what's up. Also, I remember things weren't this way say a year or two ago; all this really started when my back issues started, so I wonder if it's the back or the meds causing me to feel less than perfect every day.

Please advise!

R.L.
Title: Re: Long term opiate use / side-effects?
Post by: Joeyjojojr on July 15, 2012, 01:31 pm
Its the pills. You are already addicted at this point both physically and mentally. Ive come to realize it gets worse over time. But it can be beaten it just takes a lot of baby steps.

I was there for awhile, just plain miserable without meds/opiates. I stopped for awhile then relapsed, and did that for awhile. I got sick of going through withdrawals so i stopped until i felt somewhat normal. I only use now like a few times a month compared to everyday. This way i can avoid w/d, and i appreciate it that much more. I will also add that since being addicted for so long i honestly have changed as a person in regards to my outlook on life, and my overall happiness. Im not really as happy a person as i used to be before addiction unless im high or about to get high. Not that i was the happiest person anyway....but thats another story.
Title: Re: Long term opiate use / side-effects?
Post by: Rush Limbo on July 15, 2012, 02:03 pm
Its the pills. You are already addicted at this point both physically and mentally. Ive come to realize it gets worse over time. But it can be beaten it just takes a lot of baby steps.

I was there for awhile, just plain miserable without meds/opiates. I stopped for awhile then relapsed, and did that for awhile. I got sick of going through withdrawals so i stopped until i felt somewhat normal. I only use now like a few times a month compared to everyday. This way i can avoid w/d, and i appreciate it that much more. I will also add that since being addicted for so long i honestly have changed as a person in regards to my outlook on life, and my overall happiness. Im not really as happy a person as i used to be before addiction unless im high or about to get high. Not that i was the happiest person anyway....but thats another story.

Interesting, I was always under the impression that it takes much more than 1-2 pills of Lortab a day to become physically dependent! Some days I feel like I could totally go without any pills, but most days I feel not 100%. It's not THAT bad really, just minor aches, back and muscle pain, and just being tired in general; also work and other mental exercises are such a fucking drag! But it's mostly the feeling of being physically and mentally exhausted even though I drank no alcohol the night before and got 8-9 hours of solid sleep!

So do others agree? Is this all due to me taking Opiates for almost a year now on daily basis? And if so, is it possible to return 100% back to normal? Where I feel just as good without any Opiates as I do now while on them (and I don't mean the side effect of euphoria etc, just energy, not being tired, no aches, etc)? And if it is possible to come 100% clean, how long does it take and what can I do to speed it up and cleanse my body?

Also, can weed have anything to do with this? I do smoke almost every day though not much, I use those 1 hitters that look like a cigaret, I pack 1 or 2 of those a night, and never hit more than 4-6 puffs a night. Usually just 2-3 though, just to catch a nice buzz; COULD WEED BE PART OF THE PROBLEM? I've been smoking it for 6-7 months now pretty much every day...
Title: Re: Long term opiate use / side-effects?
Post by: ZenAndTheArt on July 15, 2012, 02:30 pm
Yer, I does sound like opiate dependance. You've been using opiates for over a year. The feelings of no mental or physical energy, are classic mild withdrawal symptoms.
As for returning back to normal, I think you have a very good chance of this, as you haven't been using opiate THAT long, and you say your taking small amounts.
If, like me, you have been using opiates for over ten years, I've read there may be some permanent physical changes to ones body. And, it's unavoidable that you'd be mentally changed after long periods of use. By this I mean, for one it may be a life changing experience (both positive and negative), along with having some affects on ones mental capacity (although I'm no expert, just going from personal experience). For me I tend to suffer from short-term memory loss, amongst other things, like, for example, some short-term memory loss (sorry, I couldn't help myself  ;D).
Title: Re: Long term opiate use / side-effects?
Post by: Rush Limbo on July 15, 2012, 03:46 pm
I see everyone is confirming my suspicions! Damn!
So the feeling of being tired and aching the next morning is my body craving the Opiates? See, I only take them in the morning and that gets me through the whole day. So say I'll take 2 pills in the AM, and the next morning I wake up and I feel tired, sore, aching, and drained, regardless of how well I slept. Damn I never though it could happen after taking only a few pills a day. And I'm also surprised that the effect of withdrawal are felt so quickly, I though I would see them after couple of DAYS without the Opiate in my system, not 24 hours after taking 2 Lortabs.

So what's your advice? Any home remedies to get past the withdrawal faster? Can I still enjoy Opiates (MY FAVORITE DRUG) and not get the withdrawal? If say I only do them once a week? Twice a month? Etc?

And again, most importantly, how long before the withdrawal effects STOP completely and I go back to feeling normal, full of energy, rested, and all the good stuff?
Title: Re: Long term opiate use / side-effects?
Post by: ZenAndTheArt on July 15, 2012, 04:13 pm
I'd say the most important factor at this moment is, are you mentally addicted to your opiates. If you are thinking "Can I still enjoy Opiates (MY FAVORITE DRUG) and not get the withdrawal? If say I only do them once a week? Twice a month? Etc?" I'd say you may be becoming mentally addicted already. It is possible, and relatively easy, to overcome the physical addiction (with the right support), believe it or not. But, if your are becoming mentally addicted that's a lot harder to break. Think of a gambling addict, no physical addiction but still a very hard habit to break.

If you only experiencing slight withdrawals, they should be gone after a day or two. Maybe a week if your more dependent than I'm assuming. Are you getting you pills from a doctor? If not maybe talk to a trained health official, but make sure it's confidential as some counties love to keep records of such things (officially or not).
Title: Re: Long term opiate use / side-effects?
Post by: Rush Limbo on July 15, 2012, 07:05 pm
I'd say the most important factor at this moment is, are you mentally addicted to your opiates. If you are thinking "Can I still enjoy Opiates (MY FAVORITE DRUG) and not get the withdrawal? If say I only do them once a week? Twice a month? Etc?" I'd say you may be becoming mentally addicted already. It is possible, and relatively easy, to overcome the physical addiction (with the right support), believe it or not. But, if your are becoming mentally addicted that's a lot harder to break. Think of a gambling addict, no physical addiction but still a very hard habit to break.

If you only experiencing slight withdrawals, they should be gone after a day or two. Maybe a week if your more dependent than I'm assuming. Are you getting you pills from a doctor? If not maybe talk to a trained health official, but make sure it's confidential as some counties love to keep records of such things (officially or not).

I think I can deal with the mental side of things. I've overcome other addictions in the past (smoking for 15 years) without issues; I've also really enjoyed Oxys, but I didn't get any in months not because I can't, but because I chose not to. What's so annoying about the Opiates is the way I feel from the moment I wake up if I'm not on them. But if I know that those withdrawal symptoms will be gone in a matter of days then it's definitely good news. I'm asking if I can still enjoy them, because, well, I really like them; so if I can get clean, and then resume the habit but keep it in check, then I'll be in much better situation. Then again, I may be fooling myself... I was really surprised though that I would even get withdrawal like this after only taking a relatively small dose on daily basis, but I guess that's the danger of the drug, it creeps up on you and before you know it, life is shit without it :-/

Also, I get most of my Opiates from a doctor; my neurologist prescribes 60 Lortabs on average every 5-6 weeks. I've already gone for days without them when I ran out, and some days were better than others. Though I never in the last 12 months have been without any for more than 2 or 3 days. Also keep in mind that I "need" them often, to manage my back pain. But in all honesty, more often than not I take them because I can, not because I really need them (though my back reminds me that it's broken on most days, so it's easy to justify taking a pill or two even though the pain is moderate and manageable without prescription meds). I've also gotten some from a pain clinic doctor here in Florida; I was going to get more last week, but decided that Hydromorphone is too much, so there I was able to conquer the mental side of things, and pass on a stronger Opiate, but instead wait few days for my Neurologist to refill my Hydrocodone / Lortab script.

Any home remedies you can recommend to speed up the withdrawal and get back to normal sooner?
Title: Re: Long term opiate use / side-effects?
Post by: Rush Limbo on July 15, 2012, 07:30 pm
Another thing to add and ask about YOUR experience:

I've been reading up on Hydrocodone withdrawal today, and most posts I read that mention 10-20mg / day say there should be NO withdrawal due to the dose being so low. Is that true? WT... The most I've EVER takes in a day was 50mg oh Hydrocodone (there were days when I dropped 50-60mg of Oxy or 20-30mg of Hydromorphone, but those are in a distant past as far as symptoms go; aka it's been weeks since i took anything stronger than Hydromorphone) but on average it was 10 or 20mg PER DAY, that's 1 or 2 Lortabs 500-10...

So what gives?
Title: Re: Long term opiate use / side-effects?
Post by: skibler on July 15, 2012, 07:45 pm
there may not be actual physical withdrawals, but your probably going to have some mental ones. Its very subjective to person, but your body is relying on that 10 to 20mgs a day. Now with that said if you quit 15 years of smoking, you should have no problem stoping cold turkey with this low dose. Just suck it up for a few days. I may have missed the in the posts earlier but are you still suffering from pain? That could be an issue with trying to stop.
Title: Re: Long term opiate use / side-effects?
Post by: Rush Limbo on July 15, 2012, 09:20 pm
there may not be actual physical withdrawals, but your probably going to have some mental ones. Its very subjective to person, but your body is relying on that 10 to 20mgs a day. Now with that said if you quit 15 years of smoking, you should have no problem stoping cold turkey with this low dose. Just suck it up for a few days. I may have missed the in the posts earlier but are you still suffering from pain? That could be an issue with trying to stop.

yes, back and leg pain on regular basis...
Title: Re: Long term opiate use / side-effects?
Post by: jerryskid on July 15, 2012, 09:25 pm
Please help me out here, I think I may have a problem, but would like to ask the community...

So last year, about 10-11 months ago I was diagnosed with herniated disks in my lower back, and have been on various pain meds to manage the pain since surgery is not an option for me: Vicodin ES, Lortab 500-10, Dilaudid 8mg; I've also ordered Oxys from the road, but it's been time since I nodded on Oxy.

Anyways, I notice that almost every day when I wake up I feel like shit. I'm tired even after sleeping 8 hours, my muscles ache a little, my back hurts, I feel like my mood is shit, I find it hard to concentrate on job; I basically feel like I'm either coming down with a cold/flu, or like I'm hanged over. Now, just one or two pills fixes it all, and I feel "normal": energetic, pain free, relaxed, and all the good stuff.

So I wonder, is my shitty feeling in the morning due to my back issues (I still get frequent sciatic nerve inflammations, and my back and leg hurts like hell, but that happens once a month or less) or is it that I've developed a physical dependency on opiates and basically the feeling shitty is due to my body needing a pill or two?

As of last few weeks, I take 1 or 2 Lortabs 500-10 a day, so that's not a strong dose. I took 90 8mg Dilaudids over the last 8 weeks, but I ran out few weeks ago and I don't really miss them either. See, my opiate intake is really small I think, so I'm not sure what's up. Also, I remember things weren't this way say a year or two ago; all this really started when my back issues started, so I wonder if it's the back or the meds causing me to feel less than perfect every day.

Please advise!

R.L.

it is the pharmies brother. they snuck up on you. i hear the story time and time again, people have an injury get pain meds and a couple of years later they are still taking a daily maintenance dose at the least. opiate withdraws are nasty, but for me benzo withdraws after nearly ten years of xanax prescribed was a real sumofabitch. the solution is up to you and i wish you the best of luck.
Title: Re: Long term opiate use / side-effects?
Post by: skibler on July 15, 2012, 09:52 pm
there may not be actual physical withdrawals, but your probably going to have some mental ones. Its very subjective to person, but your body is relying on that 10 to 20mgs a day. Now with that said if you quit 15 years of smoking, you should have no problem stoping cold turkey with this low dose. Just suck it up for a few days. I may have missed the in the posts earlier but are you still suffering from pain? That could be an issue with trying to stop.

yes, back and leg pain on regular basis...
While I am all for you being clean and not being dependent on a substance (i beleive its one of the worsts feelings), are you going to be able to maintain your qualitity of life? are you going to be able to function? idk the severity of your injurgies, but my uncle has issues with his discs and i know if he was not on the medication he would not function at all because of pain. Just a thought.
Title: Re: Long term opiate use / side-effects?
Post by: ZenAndTheArt on July 15, 2012, 09:52 pm
I have too agree with the jerryskid. Your doctor should really be addressing your concerns.
One thing I would say is, if you do need that medication, no matter how strong an opiate, their is nothing wrong (in my opinion) for you to continue to take them.
Society stigmatizes people for being dependent on a drug, but you may really need that drug. There are not many side effects from long term opiate dependance, especially if your getting them through a doctor. You will be addicted to them, but your health will NOT suffer as a result of using them. Everything bad people associate with opiate dependance is a result of this war on drugs. Everyday a doctor will begin a patient, maybe someone with cancer, on opiates that the doctor knows they will become addicted too. But, the doctor will tell the patient how little real side effects there are from dependence and how much the opiates will benefit their lives, which is all true! But, that does fit with societies image of the junkie.
I wish you all the best OP.
Title: Re: Long term opiate use / side-effects?
Post by: alanko007 on July 15, 2012, 10:18 pm
Just to chip in, opiates in comparison with other classes do A LOT LESS organ damage than the others. Never heard of any serious cases of mental damage either. In my opinion, the only medical downsides of opiates are addiction and a high overdose potential. 
Title: Re: Long term opiate use / side-effects?
Post by: Joeyjojojr on July 16, 2012, 10:13 am
Look into kratom. A lot of people swear by it. Ive tried it, but my opiate tolerance wa
Any home remedies you can recommend to speed up the withdrawal and get back to normal sooner?
[/quote]

Look into kratom. A lot of people swear by it. Ive tried it, but my opiate tolerance is high, so i felt no effects besides slightly less anxiety from w/d's.

Benzo wds are fucking horrible. Ive gone through those a few times in my life as well while wd from opiates too, felt like dying would have been easier.
Title: Re: Long term opiate use / side-effects?
Post by: alanko007 on July 16, 2012, 01:23 pm
I have a lot of kratom and I use it regularly. People with no previous opiate use can easily overdose on this stuff :P Nothing serious though. Even for me (with a 2-year opiate use history), it can produce very nice effects :) Make sure to buy from reputable kratom shops which sell plain leaf. That's the way to go. No extracts or any brand name products. Some of the "kratom" these "crazyshops" or "headshops" sell has RCs mixed in with it. Beware.