Silk Road forums

Discussion => Off topic => Topic started by: snipeemfl0 on July 02, 2012, 06:04 am

Title: People who hate "drugs"
Post by: snipeemfl0 on July 02, 2012, 06:04 am
What the fuck. Drugs. I'll go to TV and see some old fuck saying drugs are ruining the young generation, "drugs" should be banned, ect.

People just think that all "drugs" are bad. They think taking a 100ug dose of LSD is the same as shooting as shooting up H (not trying to make any H users mad, just saying)

It is this level of blind ignorance that makes me want to just fucking punch a baby. When will people learn "drugs" aren't just drugs. Thats like saying "I don't like cars. I've hear of someone driving a Honda and they crashed. Now I just don't use cars. Anyone that does should be punished"

I was watching a nat geo show today that said drug dealers should be punished as those who commit homicide. Again, "drugs" being the culprit.

Idontwanttoliveonthisplanetanymore.jpg

Title: Re: People who hate "drugs"
Post by: noosemagnet on July 02, 2012, 06:16 am
It is this level of blind ignorance that makes me want to just fucking punch a baby. [2]


i personally love heroin, (no offense taken) but i am THE only person i know who has ever been able to do heroin occasionally and not end up in jail or on the methadone program. dunno, maybe i'm just special, maybe i just respect the drug enough to not abuse it too much. but yeah i'm getting off track here. but yeah, because of this, i would never recommend anyone use heroin for fun.

all you have to do is google search "drugs" or similar and you're bombarded with anti-drug propaganda, and yeah, like i know that drugs are bad, but these websites and companies flatout LIE about drugs and instil fear in people, and that is what i don't agree with.
Title: Re: People who hate "drugs"
Post by: SOCIAUX on July 02, 2012, 06:24 am
I agree with you for the most part. It astounds me how people can be so closed minded ::)

Although, I guess I can understand why "drugs" have a bad rap. It's just a stereotype. People associate drugs with prison, ruined lives, black markets, deaths from ODs, etc. because that's all they ever hear about on the news... It's a shame really. Although, I have no sympathy for them because almost everyone who believes that bullshit is a narrow-minded sheep with no personal incentive to re-evaluate their beliefs.

Unfortunately, the intelligent, well-informed, and (mostly) responsible people like the ones here on SR are outnumbered by dumbasses out on the street. They're giving us a bad name >.<

On a more personal note:
One of my good friends (non-drug user) finds it very distressing that I occasionally use opiates for recreation as well as a coping mechanism. Yes, I do understand that is a slippery slope, but her concerns are WAY off base. She claims that I'm an addict and that I need to stop now before I "ruin my life". It doesn't matter how much I try to explain things to her, it just goes in on ear and right out the other. It's incredibly frustrating.

I can't stand people who have the "drugs are bad, end of story" mentality. I mean, c'mon, OPEN YOUR EYES, PEOPLE! Stop being sheep, for Christ's sake.
Title: Re: People who hate "drugs"
Post by: snipeemfl0 on July 02, 2012, 06:33 am
The first part of this video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBtayB86o8I

"Saying drugs is like saying I'm going to set you up with a woman." You don't know anything about here, maybe she's 400lbs or maybe its sara underwood or olivia munn. You're going to make a decision before you even know?

The fuck
Title: Re: People who hate "drugs"
Post by: thomasm13 on July 02, 2012, 06:37 am
Don't get too angry about it.

As long as drugs are prohibited, there will be generally little basis for reasonable, responsible and intelligent information as proliferated throughout the general public. As such, the general public's mindset will be one of unreasonable, irresponsibly formulated, and stupid information regarding something they KNOW NOTHING ABOUT.

It's not a surprise at all really, it is a logical step. What is interesting is that if our governments truly wanted to control us to a minute level,

ALL THEY WOULD HAVE TO DO IS LEGALIZE DRUGS, PROSTITUTION, GAMBLING AND SPORTS BETTING. Think about it, how many people would give a flying fuck about the government going around and killing little brown people if they could go down to Rite Aid, pick up some acid, some blues, maybe some discounted beer and a nice, "classy" blond hooker, go place a few bets on a horse or two, and then waltz home to indulge in all their new toys? I don't think very many.

To deal with your concerns, the media of a society is a reflection of that society. Our society has media which sensationalizes for the purpose of getting your money. It's not even that it's ignorance, it's that algorithmically viewers tune on in when they hear about heroin overdoses, or rampant professional wrestlers killing their whole family due to an infinitesimally small and slightly speculative condition known as "roid rage", or the danger that prescription drugs provide. People are fucking dumb. You know what really works to make you forget about all that? Drugs! Books too, but so do drugs. Get some and say fuck everybody else; I'm going to enjoy my life, get high, and be productive! (:
Title: Re: People who hate "drugs"
Post by: Gary Oak on July 02, 2012, 06:38 am
People are fucking robots, that's why. It's so much easier for people to just jump on the bandwagon that drugs are dangerous and continue to blissfully live their lives in ignorance. People as a whole cannot think for themselves, instead they stupidly listen to whatever propaganda the government feeds them.
Title: Re: People who hate "drugs"
Post by: blackend646 on July 02, 2012, 06:42 am
Telling the average muggle to think for themselves is like telling a dog to stop barking. There is just no point. Best to just not think about them and do your own thing. In the end, they are the ones who end up leading boring, cookie-cutter lives.

They can ramble on about how they hate people who "depend" on drugs whilst munching on their doctor-prescribed SSRI'S all they want. I'll be over here having fun.
Title: Re: People who hate "drugs"
Post by: Gary Oak on July 02, 2012, 06:48 am
On a more personal note:
One of my good friends (non-drug user) finds it very distressing that I occasionally use opiates for recreation as well as a coping mechanism. Yes, I do understand that is a slippery slope, but her concerns are WAY off base. She claims that I'm an addict and that I need to stop now before I "ruin my life". It doesn't matter how much I try to explain things to her, it just goes in on ear and right out the other. It's incredibly frustrating.

You should drop that friend asap, she's most likely more of a danger to you than your opiate use. She should listen to you if she's your friend, not just ignore you.
Title: Re: People who hate "drugs"
Post by: SOCIAUX on July 02, 2012, 06:51 am
Quote
Telling the average muggle to think for themselves is like telling a dog to stop barking. There is just no point. Best to just not think about them and do your own thing. In the end, they are the ones who end up leading boring, cookie-cutter lives.

They can ramble on about how they hate people who "depend" on drugs whilst munching on their doctor-prescribed SSRI'S all they want. I'll be over here having fun.
So fucking true, man. You hit the nail right on the head.
If they can't think for themselves, they're the ones who're missing out. I'm here on this earth to take advantage of every resource it has to offer. When I die, I want to have no regrets.

I'll be over here having fun too, mate ;D
Title: Re: People who hate "drugs"
Post by: SOCIAUX on July 02, 2012, 06:55 am
@Gary:
Yeah, you're probably right. I try not to talk about drugs or drug use around her, just because I don't have the patience or energy to have that conversation >.<

It's really not too big of a deal, just frustrating at times...
Title: Re: People who hate "drugs"
Post by: Gary Oak on July 02, 2012, 07:03 am
I hope that someday this silly war on drugs ends. It would be pretty chill to be able to hang with some of you in real life without having to worry about big brother grounding me. ;)
Title: Re: People who hate "drugs"
Post by: SOCIAUX on July 02, 2012, 07:12 am
That would be pretty chill... I would enjoy that. It's a rare occasion that I get to have a conversation with like-minded people IRL.

Although, I don't see that future arriving anytime soon... Unless we somehow work our way into a "Brave New World" society. And, IMO, I prefer our current society to that one. Banned drugs and all...
Title: Re: People who hate "drugs"
Post by: sausage and mash on July 02, 2012, 08:24 am
I have a friend whos girlfriend is anti drugs, at BBQ when i roll up she tuts and calls it a disgusting habit, taking the moral high ground as shes never done anything illegal like that in her life, shes a drinker though so i tried to find common ground, pointing out government stats and the dangers of drinking compared to weed, trouble is as a drone she just wont listen and despite the evidence and stats in weeds favor she clams the alcohol is fine and weed is bad.
This continued until she went out one night got so drunk she threw up on herself , really badly, i mean it was everywhere, disgusting, so being stoned and a nice guy i helped her out. Not before taking a photo of her laying in her own sick which i show here every time she tries to put down my beloved herb.
Title: Re: People who hate "drugs"
Post by: Gary Oak on July 02, 2012, 08:31 am
I have a friend whos girlfriend is anti drugs, at BBQ when i roll up she tuts and calls it a disgusting habit, taking the moral high ground as shes never done anything illegal like that in her life, shes a drinker though so i tried to find common ground, pointing out government stats and the dangers of drinking compared to weed, trouble is as a drone she just wont listen and despite the evidence and stats in weeds favor she clams the alcohol is fine and weed is bad.
This continued until she went out one night got so drunk she threw up on herself , really badly, i mean it was everywhere, disgusting, so being stoned and a nice guy i helped her out. Not before taking a photo of her laying in her own sick which i show here every time she tries to put down my beloved herb.

+1 for sticking it to the bitch! >:D
Title: Re: People who hate "drugs"
Post by: psychedelicmind on July 02, 2012, 08:49 am
There is nothing worse than being at a party, rolling your balls off and then someone taking the moral high ground about the use of drugs. Usually the people breaking my balls are pissed out of their head on alcohol.

My usual argument is "alcohol is your drug of choice and i'm not giving you grief about the dangers of that;  [insert whatever drug i'm on] is my drug of choice, so let me enjoy my choice...and by the way, do some research on the most dangerous drugs, and you'll see that you are taking more risk than me"

In other words, "fuck off and don't be annoying me"
Title: Re: People who hate "drugs"
Post by: Kappacino on July 02, 2012, 09:29 am
I was watching the BBC sunday morning yesterday and they had these three people on discussing circumcision and how it had been ruled a breach of the child's rights in a specific area of Germany. One jewish guy kept saying the usual shit "it's our ancient custom.. its not harmful.. its a profound insult to our religion to outlaw this".. I was almost shouting at the TV in frustration. Then thankfully a doctor came on and said very plainly "this is about the rights of the child. Parent's rights don't go as far as mutilating the body of your child, even if it is a religious custom. If someone wants to get circumsised once they are 18 and can make that decision then that is their own choice, but forcing a child to undergo a permanent bodily change to accommodate the religious beliefs of the parents is a breach of rights".

Makes sense. I mean, what if I said I'm a Kappacinist, following the ancient scribes of the Kappacine, and it is my religious right to remove the fingernails of my child.

Or even, it is my religious right to remove my daughter's labia.

It's self evidently monstrous, but all of a sudden when its a guy's dick, its totally fine because it is "their tradition".

Now none of this is related to drugs except for later in the program, that same jewish guy, talking about the fact that someone had been sentenced to DEATH for possession of an oz of weed  in  Saudi Arabia said "Of course, drug dealing is a DESPICABLE crime and the person should be imprisoned, but a punishment of death is too far."

I agree with him on the last point.. but the first half of his sentence was the most annoying thing. It seems to be a common wisdom, or so it is imagined anyway, that drug dealing and drug taking is somehow a bad thing. Taking a substance, that has an effect on your perception, is a bad thing, apparently.

This, coming from a guy that openly condones the hacking away of the genitalia of small children, simply because it says so in a book.

And he said it with full confidence, without even a sense of irony. So yes, we're fucked as a species.

It's as if people equate "the bad things that could happen as a cause of drugs" to the notion of TAKING DRUGS as a whole. That's why "taking drugs" carries so much weight.



Title: Re: People who hate "drugs"
Post by: Ballzinator on July 02, 2012, 09:38 am
I have a friend whos girlfriend is anti drugs, at BBQ when i roll up she tuts and calls it a disgusting habit, taking the moral high ground as shes never done anything illegal like that in her life, shes a drinker though so i tried to find common ground, pointing out government stats and the dangers of drinking compared to weed, trouble is as a drone she just wont listen and despite the evidence and stats in weeds favor she clams the alcohol is fine and weed is bad.
This continued until she went out one night got so drunk she threw up on herself , really badly, i mean it was everywhere, disgusting, so being stoned and a nice guy i helped her out. Not before taking a photo of her laying in her own sick which i show here every time she tries to put down my beloved herb.
+1

I was watching the BBC sunday morning yesterday and they had these three people on discussing circumcision and how it had been ruled a breach of the child's rights in a specific area of Germany. One jewish guy kept saying the usual shit "it's our ancient custom.. its not harmful.. its a profound insult to our religion to outlaw this".. I was almost shouting at the TV in frustration. Then thankfully a doctor came on and said very plainly "this is about the rights of the child. Parent's rights don't go as far as mutilating the body of your child, even if it is a religious custom. If someone wants to get circumsised once they are 18 and can make that decision then that is their own choice, but forcing a child to undergo a permanent bodily change to accommodate the religious beliefs of the parents is a breach of rights".

Makes sense. I mean, what if I said I'm a Kappacinist, following the ancient scribes of the Kappacine, and it is my religious right to remove the fingernails of my child.

Or even, it is my religious right to remove my daughter's labia.

It's self evidently monstrous, but all of a sudden when its a guy's dick, its totally fine because it is "their tradition".

Now none of this is related to drugs except for later in the program, that same jewish guy, talking about the fact that someone had been sentenced to DEATH for possession of an oz of weed  in  Saudi Arabia said "Of course, drug dealing is a DESPICABLE crime and the person should be imprisoned, but a punishment of death is too far."

I agree with him on the last point.. but the first half of his sentence was the most annoying thing. It seems to be a common wisdom, or so it is imagined anyway, that drug dealing and drug taking is somehow a bad thing. Taking a substance, that has an effect on your perception, is a bad thing, apparently.

This, coming from a guy that openly condones the hacking away of the genitalia of small children, simply because it says so in a book.

And he said it with full confidence, without even a sense of irony. So yes, we're fucked as a species.

It's as if people equate "the bad things that could happen as a cause of drugs" to the notion of TAKING DRUGS as a whole. That's why "taking drugs" carries so much weight.
+1
Title: Re: People who hate "drugs"
Post by: BanWork on July 02, 2012, 12:42 pm
Even more frustrating than their processed, pre-packaged, wholesale views on drugs is the fact that talking to them is like having a conversation with a mentally deficient pigeon; no matter what you say, no matter how hard you try to make their mind flex just a little, no matter how hard you plead with them to look at things from another perspective, no matter what evidence you present, they just sit there gormlessly coo-ing the same pre-programmed words at you. Often whilst smoking one of the deadliest most addictive drugs in the world and sipping on a liquid drug that gets people in city centers the world over beating the shit out of eachother every weekend.... But of course, to them,  alcohol and nicotine aren't drugs  :o

I just don't get into that debate anymore, I can spot these narrow minded ignorami a mile off and choose not to associate with them.   ::)
Title: Re: People who hate "drugs"
Post by: breathe on July 02, 2012, 02:23 pm
I just can't understand blind ignorance and hypocrisy. People who refuse to do drugs yet drink copious amounts of alcohol shit me to no end. I've tried reasoning with them, explaining how alcohol is actually one of the worst drugs in terms of physical and mental harm, not to mention the shitty effects, but they won't listen. It's always the same "but drugs are illegal" bullshit. So I say, why not try some legal drugs like nitrous or research chemicals? Then they have no answer but still won't try anything.

I read a study once that said that drug users were on average smarter than the rest of the population. I think this may be because smarter people are more likely to make informed decisions about drugs and not necessarily listen to government anti-drug propaganda and urban myths.

Sorry for the rant.
Title: Re: People who hate "drugs"
Post by: gtgeorgz on July 02, 2012, 03:04 pm
Society is just fucked when it comes to the war on drugs. I mean, who are the government to tell me i can't use certain substances?! Whats in it for them if i use them or don't use them?! I can do whatever i want with my mind and body.
I have basically lost a friend recently just because he constantly told me that 'using drugs is bad', 'you're destroying your body' etc.. So i gave him a massive speech about relative harms of certain drugs in comparison too alcohol and told him to stuff his hypocrisy and naivety, as he is a drinker. There are much more interesting and fun people to be around in my life. My advice would be if you use illegal drugs, don't make friends with narrow minded, naive, robots. 

I just can't understand blind ignorance and hypocrisy. People who refuse to do drugs yet drink copious amounts of alcohol shit me to no end. I've tried reasoning with them, explaining how alcohol is actually one of the worst drugs in terms of physical and mental harm, not to mention the shitty effects, but they won't listen. It's always the same "but drugs are illegal" bullshit. So I say, why not try some legal drugs like nitrous or research chemicals? Then they have no answer but still won't try anything.

I read a study once that said that drug users were on average smarter than the rest of the population. I think this may be because smarter people are more likely to make informed decisions about drugs and not necessarily listen to government anti-drug propaganda and urban myths.

Sorry for the rant.

would be interesting to have a read of this study! good rant though, +1 :)
Title: Re: People who hate "drugs"
Post by: Limetless on July 02, 2012, 03:45 pm
This may be a bit controversial but....fuck it.

Those people that hate drugs are actually have every right to hate drugs, just like you guys have every right to think what you do about drugs. What I find equally annoying as people that rant on and on about the evils of drugs are people that bang on and on about drugs and that try to pressure people into trying drugs. People should just be allowed to think/feel/do as they please within reason and just leave those that disagree/want to do something else alone.

What we have to take into consideration is well is that if used irresponsibly drugs ARE BAD and CAN DESTROY YOUR BODY. We only have to look at alcoholism, Krokodil, Crack addicts, Smack addicts and Meth addicts to see this is true. What changes this situation? Moderation, education and self responsibility.

There will always be those that use things (not just drugs, anything) as a crutch and that will always be an inherently bad thing. However the thing that is used as a crutch is, on it's own, not the bad thing. It's what the individual decides to do with them which is what turns them bad.

My 2 pence.
Title: Re: People who hate "drugs"
Post by: thomasm13 on July 02, 2012, 03:52 pm
I love the mentally deficient carrier pigeon analogy! So true lol.

That would actually be a  great Pixar-style pro-drug animation. Here's how the dialogue could go: The scene is a party, your typical Saturday night, 21+ fraternity party.

The pigeon wanders around on the floor, and then attempts to hop up on a chair. Falling at first, he tries again and (barely) succeeds.

"Hey! Stop that. Stop that. Hey! Stop that. Stop that."

"Why? It's just pot. It's completely safe, actually medical literature has proven it to be beneficial in both medical and psychiatric situations."

"Didn't you see the T.V.? No, no, no. Not safe. Bad! Bad! Drugs bad, Beer good. Illegal drugs bad, Budweiser good."

"What?"
(Pigeon wanders off to another partygoer)
"Hey! Stop that. Stop that. Hey! Stop that! Stop that."

"Why? It's just psilocybin mushrooms, medical literature has proven it to be both antidepressant as well as physiologically beneficial."

"No, you jump out of windows go nuts and die. Hey! Stop that! Hey. Bad, it's bad. Bad. (Pigeon accidentally bumps into wall.) Bad!"

"What the fuck?"
(Pigeon wanders off to another partygoer)
"Kegstand!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

Pigeon: "Okay! Hey. Wait. Hey. Wait. Hey. Wait. I got to go to work tomorrow. Hey. Wait. I got to get up early to go to work tomorrow. Hey. Wait. Hey. Hey. Hey."

Partygoers: "KEGSTAND PIGEON!!!!!!"

Pigeon: "No, I have to go to work tomorrow."

Ending quote: "Those who would choose security over liberty, propaganda over research, and stupidity over rejection, have no liberty nor security, are the product of propaganda, and are all that their society seeks them to be, which is to say absolutely nothing but a dumb fucking pigeon."




Title: Re: People who hate "drugs"
Post by: thomasm13 on July 02, 2012, 03:56 pm
This may be a bit controversial but....fuck it.

Those people that hate drugs are actually have every right to hate drugs, just like you guys have every right to think what you do about drugs. What I find equally annoying as people that rant on and on about the evils of drugs are people that bang on and on about drugs and that try to pressure people into trying drugs. People should just be allowed to think/feel/do as they please within reason and just leave those that disagree/want to do something else alone.

What we have to take into consideration is well is that if used irresponsibly drugs ARE BAD and CAN DESTROY YOUR BODY. We only have to look at alcoholism, Krokodil, Crack addicts, Smack addicts and Meth addicts to see this is true. What changes this situation? Moderation, education and self responsibility.

There will always be those that use things (not just drugs, anything) as a crutch and that will always be an inherently bad thing. However the thing that is used as a crutch is, on it's own, not the bad thing. It's what the individual decides to do with them which is what turns them bad.

My 2 pence.

^This. As Zappa said, "A drug is an inanimate object. It's a chemical compound; it's not inherently a "bad" thing. What is "bad" is when people who take them treat them like a license to behave like an asshole."
Title: Re: People who hate "drugs"
Post by: NeuroRelativizer on July 03, 2012, 07:33 am
I could rant for a while about people who hate drugs and refuse to listen to a word against their stand. I have, many times. Don't feel like it, since a lot of you have for me already.

I will say I don't want everyone to try drugs. Some people shouldn't. But everyone should be compelled to seek information on anything that interests or concerns them, including drugs, and accurate information should be readily available.

That way, there would be no propaganda-programmed robots saying "Oh my god you take acid?! I can't be friends with people who do drugs," instead it would be more likely to sound like "Acid, huh? I've never really looked at it, what's it like?"

Sadly we're not very close to that right now. But I dream.
Title: Re: People who hate "drugs"
Post by: LeisureLass on July 03, 2012, 08:00 am
I was at a work function once and got cornered by some guy who went on and on about the "coke problem" and how evil coke is.  I told him I thought plenty of people just did coke recreationally and it didn't affect their lives at all.  He would hear nothing of it and insisted that he could tell immediately when anyone was on coke and if they thought they could hide it they were fooling themselves.

I just smiled and nodded and enjoyed the buzz my several hollywood lines prior to the function had given me. ::)
Title: Re: People who hate "drugs"
Post by: LeisureLass on July 03, 2012, 08:04 am
What I find equally annoying as people that rant on and on about the evils of drugs are people that bang on and on about drugs and that try to pressure people into trying drugs.

Why would anyone do that?  Then there would be less drugs to go round.  :o

But in all seriousness, I agree with you.  In my house, it's "Please feel welcome but not obliged."
Title: Re: People who hate "drugs"
Post by: Limetless on July 03, 2012, 08:20 am
Yeah it's one of my real bug-bears tbh. Like they think doing drugs is some sort of religion or something and if you don't you are a blasphemous heathen. It's just a life choice based on personal preference, nothing more and nothing less.

When I see people doing it IRL I always call them idiots.
Title: Re: People who hate "drugs"
Post by: jewfro on July 03, 2012, 08:27 am
i...

i'm too old for this shit
Title: Re: People who hate "drugs"
Post by: NeuroRelativizer on July 03, 2012, 08:31 am
Yeah it's one of my real bug-bears tbh. Like they think doing drugs is some sort of religion or something and if you don't you are a blasphemous heathen.

The anti-drug propaganda has largely split the population into those that believe drugs are okay or even good, and those who believe drugs are bad, just as there are those who believe in the Christian God and those who don't, and they are often divided just as vehemently.

If pro-education propaganda replaced the anti-drug propa, there'd probably be fewer people pushing others to try drugs.
Title: Re: People who hate "drugs"
Post by: Kappacino on July 03, 2012, 08:34 am
Lim noone is saying people don't have the right to criticise drugs.. Of course they do. And there are many legitimate criticisms of drugs, some of which you detailed, more of which remain to be seen.. But I think what people are getting at is the irrational, commonly held belief that substances that affect perception, branched together under this all encompassing umbrella of "drugs", are somehow bad for you simply because they affect your perception, not even taking into account variables such as frequency of use and other signals of health.

That is markedly different to saying, a certain amount of use of a specific chemical, in conjunction with a type of lifestyle and mindset, will lead to harm.

Most people wouldn't even articulate that. It's the drugs = bad, simply because its a drug (idea), that I think MOST people in society tend to hold. Just look at the way the government/press talk about it, the weight "drugs" carries.. It's almost to blaspheme to even suggest that they can be used recreationally.

Someone saying "there are health concerns using specific substances when we take into account x,y,z variables and should use that to temper our policy toward the substance both from a public health and criminal standpoint".. is a world away from saying "drugs are bad because they are bad"

Frankly we have to call them on it whenever we can, because it isn't simply a case of "let others do what they want in regards to their individual freedom". I wish it was, but the deck is stacked.

Mockery and hatred of stupidity is essential in shaming people out of their absurd beliefs. People with grounded beliefs are well capable of defending themselves and having a meaningful debate, which they will do. Those that hold a belief without evidence should feel the fire and have it known that there are people out there who also hold convictions and morals just as strong as theirs, and can take the moral highground when available, like they have been doing for years.

So whilst I wouldn't pressure anyone to take drugs, if someone starts pushing the moral highground and acting all holier than thou, they're gonna feel the thunder.
Title: Re: People who hate "drugs"
Post by: Limetless on July 03, 2012, 08:54 am
I think there is a third mindset as well which contains the ACTUAL majority which is that as long as they don't see it or have it invade their lives/pushed onto them they don't actually give a fuck. They have nothing to do with it and have no interest in it so the subject just doesn't enter their mind. Why should it? It's the same about the children dying in Africa. Who can really claim that they think about the plight of Africa on a day to day basis on their own accord? I doubt many.

Also, and I realise this may be different to other peoples situation, even if people know they aren't really bothered. I know for a fact that nearly everyone in my life knows I partake in the ultra-violet but because it isn't an issue and because I don't ram it down peoples throats they don't care and it's none of their business. The only people I have ever found harass me about are people that have a real agenda on the subject.

So really what I am saying is that even though we think we have the moral right to use drugs if we wish, which of course we do and should, we shouldn't become the people we despise by pushing out views on other people either. If we do that and become those crass advertisements for getting high (you all know what I mean) then we lose the moral high-ground straight away. The fight has to be for the liberty to choose, nothing more and nothing less.
Title: Re: People who hate "drugs"
Post by: Kappacino on July 03, 2012, 09:12 am
I agree with all of that except the first part

I don't think people have a mindset of "if they keep it away from me, whatever". And that includes general apathy towards the subject due to how little it appears in their everyday lives. The fact remains that the question "should drugs be legal" comes up, and when it does, they certainly don't act as if it doesn't affect them. They have their beliefs on it all the same, regardless of how little they actually do care about it on a moment to moment basis (and they very well may not care when they're going to the shop or taking a shit).. I can only talk from my own experiences and the people I've seen/met but in my eyes there is definitely a prevailing attitude that drugs are bad and SHOULD be illegal regardless of whether people do it in the privacy of their own home, that is held by if not a majority, a high percentage of the population. And as little as it might cross their mind as a subject, they certainly aren't scared of voicing that opinion when it suits them. Perhaps on that we will have to agree to disagree

The topic of drugs has come up so much in my life that I rarely talk about it anymore as its beyond cliche as we all know.. But when someone is pressing me, I feel no choice but to shred them back. I won't go out of my way to force my beliefs on others but if they're spreading stupidity without even a basic logical framework for what they believe then I consider them fair game, without losing the high ground.

The fact that people don't think about something because it doesn't directly affect their life is irrelevant when we consider that they DO come out with strong opinions when the topic does come up, which it always has, and always will.

You're right, it's about the right to choose. And when it suits them, most people are against the right to choose.
Title: Re: People who hate "drugs"
Post by: Limetless on July 03, 2012, 09:32 am
I agree with all of that except the first part

I don't think people have a mindset of "if they keep it away from me, whatever". And that includes general apathy towards the subject due to how little it appears in their everyday lives. The fact remains that the question "should drugs be legal" comes up, and when it does, they certainly don't act as if it doesn't affect them. They have their beliefs on it all the same, regardless of how little they actually do care about it on a moment to moment basis (and they very well may not care when they're going to the shop or taking a shit).. I can only talk from my own experiences and the people I've seen/met but in my eyes there is definitely a prevailing attitude that drugs are bad and SHOULD be illegal regardless of whether people do it in the privacy of their own home, that is held by if not a majority, a high percentage of the population. And as little as it might cross their mind as a subject, they certainly aren't scared of voicing that opinion when it suits them. Perhaps on that we will have to agree to disagree

The topic of drugs has come up so much in my life that I rarely talk about it anymore as its beyond cliche as we all know.. But when someone is pressing me, I feel no choice but to shred them back. I won't go out of my way to force my beliefs on others but if they're spreading stupidity without even a basic logical framework for what they believe then I consider them fair game, without losing the high ground.

The fact that people don't think about something because it doesn't directly affect their life is irrelevant when we consider that they DO come out with strong opinions when the topic does come up, which it always has, and always will.

You're right, it's about the right to choose. And when it suits them, most people are against the right to choose.

I think a lot of the time subjective to the people you find yourself with in your life and your personality as well. The thing is I think we are just going to have to accept that we are the minority, that doesn't mean you should forgo your search for liberty but the problem I see with most pro-legalisation etc is that they aren't really arguing for the freedom to do what they want, it's actually more often than not trying to convert people into trying drugs and that's where it goes wrong. They shouldn't want people to be like them in the first place, then you are yet another dick with an agenda, the single point of contention is whether we should be criminalized for it.
Title: Re: People who hate "drugs"
Post by: Kappacino on July 03, 2012, 09:40 am
I don't think, at least not in my case or anyone that I know, its a case of wanting people to try drugs and to push them into that lifestyle. It's more about trying to get them to accept the freedom argument that you just put forth. It is easy to equate that, as it is part of the "drug mentality" if you will, with wanting people to take drugs as there may be a slight element of "think like us"

But to say they shouldn't want people to be like them, I don't think extends to trying to win them round to a side of an argument. Wanting someone to take drugs = wanting someone to be like you but, wanting someone to accept personal liberty = wanting someone to respect your rights. It is only wanting someone to be like you, or having an agenda, to the extent that you believe those things too. And it can't extend that far, for obvious reasons.
Title: Re: People who hate "drugs"
Post by: Limetless on July 03, 2012, 09:49 am
Oh yeah I am not saying you do individually, but when you see the pot-marchers doing their silly protests you know for a fact they do. And those small minority are the ones that shout the loudest which is why they represent us instead of the vast majority. Why is this? Because we have better things to do with out time than get tied up in an agenda that they use to fill their life.

My point is that the people out there campaigning aren't the ones that are sending the right message. They are focusing far to much on an individual drug (for example the pot-twats) and not about the real issue which is personal freedom.
Title: Re: People who hate "drugs"
Post by: Kappacino on July 03, 2012, 09:57 am
Oh yeah I am not saying you do individually, but when you see the pot-marchers doing their silly protests you know for a fact they do. And those small minority are the ones that shout the loudest which is why they represent us instead of the vast majority. Why is this? Because we have better things to do with out time than get tied up in an agenda that they use to fill their life.

My point is that the people out there campaigning aren't the ones that are sending the right message. They are focusing far to much on an individual drug (for example the pot-twats) and not about the real issue which is personal freedom.

Oh, cool well I accept that, I think that's true.

And those people are a detriment to the cause, and are beyond a cliche too.

I find there is a coronary with the whole medicinal marijuana argument. It damages the cause.. What doctor is going to suggest that you inhale the carcinogenic burning fumes of plant matter? I'm not against it but I think they should be more forthcoming with the idea that its more about personal freedom and if someone wants to smoke weed cause it helps them get through chemo, or for any reason, then they should be able to. They certainly don't need a license.

Many people on the right wing see medical marijuana and think its a joke, because in ways it is. I'm totally for the use of weed but constantly asserting that smoking weed is the best way of using it medically is a bit ridiculous. A real medical marijuana industry would put research into ways of ingesting the plant without inhaling fumes (and this is of course happening, but is by no means the prevailing method)

They should just come straight out and say that they want to smoke weed.
Title: Re: People who hate "drugs"
Post by: Limetless on July 03, 2012, 10:06 am
Yeah exactly, but it goes further than weed. I want to be able to take whatever I see fit at least within the confines of my own home. It's my home so why ever should I not? The fight shouldn't be fought on a drug-by-drug basis and neither should it be fought on silly principles like "Medical Marijuana" or some other cod-shit that you can fake glaucoma for. There is only ONE argument and that is of the liberty to take drugs in a recreational setting if I see fit. Any other argument or approach simply undermines the cause as a whole.