Silk Road forums

Discussion => Silk Road discussion => Topic started by: scamtest on October 27, 2011, 11:17 pm

Title: Scamtest
Post by: scamtest on October 27, 2011, 11:17 pm
I was intrigued by the recent posts by scammers bragging about how easy it is to rip people off on SR, so I thought I'd test it.

TEST 1
I started off with the phishing sites on Hidden Wiki. I couldn't be bothered to actually make a site so I pulled the password database from an existing (not too bright) phisher. Big list, took a while. I could have walked away with thousands of dollars, really, that easy. It's not just ignorance causing this, it's outright stupidity too.  I've watched one person who had their password changed by this phisher start a new account with a slightly different username but same password, log into that account through the phisher and ask SR for a new password to his original account which he then used to login through the phisher again.  Cool huh?  But a pleasant surprise were the abandoned seller accounts, hey, now I wouldn't have to pay for the next part of my test.

TEST 2
Used one of the abandoned seller accounts to offer some coke at reasonable prices, not too cheap. Using an old seller account was good because not only did it have age to it, it already had one 5/5 feedback.   I insisted on all buyers finalizing early of course.
And away we go. I'm not even going to bother to tell you what happened because you can already guess. The surprise was that it wasn't only new buyers trying to throw their money at me. Some people should know better!

Look, it was just curiosity, I didn't really expect it to be that easy!
What I should do now is suggest a whole lot of shit to improve things but right now I can't think of any, lol, must be this lovely Lemon I'm smoking.

I used to feel sympathy for the people getting scammed. Some of those people still deserve that sympathy, but a lot more don't.
Right, time to refund the last orders,close my seller account,  and turn out the lights.

Have Fun.



Title: Re: Scamtest
Post by: sun on October 27, 2011, 11:46 pm
The only way to prevent scammers is to educate the people getting scammed.  Of course, this will never happen.


"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."
Title: Re: Scamtest
Post by: fisher on October 27, 2011, 11:54 pm
I agree with you man, it is too easy to scam SR customers. They almost demand people like me take their money. and they log in to phishing sites religiously. it is honestly easier than taking candy from a baby. someone could probably even post here in the forums that listing X by vendor Y is a scam before they put up the listing, and still clean house. and when it takes the admin a day from the first scam report to shut that vendor account down, it is not a stretch to say that scammers are getting away with thousands of dollars in a matter of a couple days. Like I said in another thread though, I only take money that is freely given to me by either people who don't think to save their link to the road or people who throw orders at one of my listings, and finalize without even a single message to me. I don't lose any sleep over it, because it could all be avoided by opening your eyes, and paying a little attention. Silk Road could put in a few measures to stop early finalization to cut down on scams, but honestly why would they? They are still getting their 6.25% (unless they are refunding it to people who buy from proven scammers, but I haven't heard of that yet)
Title: Re: Scamtest
Post by: brainstew on October 28, 2011, 04:53 am
... Silk Road could put in a few measures to stop early finalization to cut down on scams, but honestly why would they? They are still getting their 6.25% (unless they are refunding it to people who buy from proven scammers, but I haven't heard of that yet)

Some sellers, maybe even most or all, require early finalization for buyers without a rep. Which I totally understand because there are also buyer scams. If they completely stopped it then noobs like me would be without a rope so to speak.
Title: Re: Scamtest
Post by: kipperdore on October 28, 2011, 06:18 am
damn man. yeah i hear you. are you ssynchronicity (2.0)? when i first started buying i made sure to make contact with the sellers i bought from and made sure my orders were under escrow when ordering from sellers for the first time. only thing that would really get me is if a reputable seller got his/her account stolen - not much I could do about that. you'd think people would be *extra* careful on a site like SR, but I guess drugs are just *that* alluring to people that their guard drops before they even start. crazy.
Title: Re: Scamtest
Post by: scamtest on October 28, 2011, 10:17 am
No, not ssynchronicity.
Title: Re: Scamtest
Post by: Bob Arctor on October 28, 2011, 10:40 am
You should reveal the seller's name you used.
Title: Re: Scamtest
Post by: Paperchasing on October 28, 2011, 04:59 pm
I was intrigued by the recent posts by scammers bragging about how easy it is to rip people off on SR, so I thought I'd test it.

TEST 1
I started off with the phishing sites on Hidden Wiki. I couldn't be bothered to actually make a site so I pulled the password database from an existing (not too bright) phisher. Big list, took a while. I could have walked away with thousands of dollars, really, that easy. It's not just ignorance causing this, it's outright stupidity too.  I've watched one person who had their password changed by this phisher start a new account with a slightly different username but same password, log into that account through the phisher and ask SR for a new password to his original account which he then used to login through the phisher again.  Cool huh?  But a pleasant surprise were the abandoned seller accounts, hey, now I wouldn't have to pay for the next part of my test.

TEST 2
Used one of the abandoned seller accounts to offer some coke at reasonable prices, not too cheap. Using an old seller account was good because not only did it have age to it, it already had one 5/5 feedback.   I insisted on all buyers finalizing early of course.
And away we go. I'm not even going to bother to tell you what happened because you can already guess. The surprise was that it wasn't only new buyers trying to throw their money at me. Some people should know better!

Look, it was just curiosity, I didn't really expect it to be that easy!
What I should do now is suggest a whole lot of shit to improve things but right now I can't think of any, lol, must be this lovely Lemon I'm smoking.

I used to feel sympathy for the people getting scammed. Some of those people still deserve that sympathy, but a lot more don't.
Right, time to refund the last orders,close my seller account,  and turn out the lights.

Have Fun.


Hey scamtest, 

   Yeh I agree with ya about people should use more caution when logging into the site.. bookmarks or memorize url (period). Otherwise expect to get a not so good surprise one day.    I don't think that you being successful in your test of users and seller vulnerabilities should dampen your compassion for those that are or have been scammed, are you really saying because they fell for your test now you don't feel sorry for them?  Truly nobody knows everything all the time....  and thank goodness that your not going to keep their money.. . hopefully your test ruse will awaken them before someone really does take their money.  Now that's a community service, a wake up call without loss.

  Pls post more information regarding the accounts that have been compromised (unless the mods are thinking no on that.)

Paperchasing
Title: Re: Scamtest
Post by: phubaiblues on October 29, 2011, 01:57 am
I want to go on record as saying I totally do *not* like this sort of activity.  No offense, but scammers themselves love coming back on sites they've stolen from and painting themselves as somehow 'altruistic', showing us our weaknesses, blah blah blah. 

We don't need this, we don't need newbies 'showing' us shit.  And people who get lied to and ripped off do not 'deserve' it.  Much of this same crap I just had to hear from our latest btc ripper, so I'd appreciate if we don't get any more 'help' of this kind, or any other 'scam' tests.  Not funny, not useful, not credible.
Title: Re: Scamtest
Post by: kipperdore on October 29, 2011, 03:50 am
Much of this same crap I just had to hear from our latest btc ripper

can you link to this post?

I'd appreciate if we don't get any more 'help' of this kind, or any other 'scam' tests.  Not funny, not useful, not credible.

do you assert that a new buyer who falls for this scam, is refunded, and then is more careful from there on out is not better off? if there were many extra such motivated pseudo-scammers i can see it being too much, though. wouldn't it be interesting if there were scammer accounts built by Silk Road that, instead of processing the order, simply redirected to some information about scamming tactics and what to look out for? i don't think that's a bad idea, just being stoned ::)
Title: Re: Scamtest
Post by: phubaiblues on October 29, 2011, 04:23 am
Look: I'm still just kind of irked, since the btc scammer that burnt a bunch of people came back on here, trying to pain himself in some kind of better light, and it sickens me.  It's not 'hustling' or any sort of serious con: it's just lying to people who put a lot of effort into getting here, and don't quite realize we have people who will lie and steal their money.  It's more an escrow problem, than anything else. 

But it's arguable, if you think these scam tests help people, fine, no quarrel.  But I don't.

Here's one from peopleb4profits: "Additional, I could provide a valued service being that I can spot a scammer faster than any1 of u."
or
"I already sell on SR and I am the top seller in my drug category. Hell, I have a dam good rating and im known as a trustworthy guy. Additionally I know 2 people in RL who sell and are also respected sellers on SR."
or
"Had each of you shown some type of hint of worthy character I would of eventually returned your money."

Links?: http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?topic=4499.0
            http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?topic=4500.0


It's not hard to do, and newbies have enough obstacles to face, now that even legit vendors ask the to lift escrow.  So I personally don't believe these help, but just add a bit of insult to an already aggravating situation.  Too things would help: tighten up on mandatory escrow, and make people pay for buyer's accounts.  And drill it into people's heads not to by btc on SR.
Title: Re: Scamtest
Post by: tcobambient on October 29, 2011, 04:25 am
Some people aren't computer/internet savvy and they shouldn't be taken advantage of because of it.   I think I'm pretty smart when it comes to computer/internet shit but there's a lot of rules and new shit that you have to learn to deal with SR where I was a bit lost at times.  Bottom line, it's a total dick move to rip people off.   
Title: Re: Scamtest
Post by: phubaiblues on October 29, 2011, 04:35 am
Some people aren't computer/internet savvy and they shouldn't be taken advantage of because of it.   I think I'm pretty smart when it comes to computer/internet shit but there's a lot of rules and new shit that you have to learn to deal with SR where I was a bit lost at times.  Bottom line, it's a total dick move to rip people off.

I agree, and site's so new, it's kind of easy to take advantage.  I want SR to survive.  It's first of it's kind, and even sane LE know the War on Drugs has brought nothing but misery, and has solved nothing.  I personally have the faint hope that SR is the beginning of the fall of the wall we've built, to where people will finally see that we can't be stopped, and perhaps go back to a time when governments didn't think it was their business to enforce any kind of prohibition.

But if we become just another 'ripoff the lame's drug site, we'll fold like all the ones on the regular web do  The genius of SR was to incorporate Tor and Bitcoin and Escrow into his site.  And it did work fairly good, until in the last few months, when lifting of escrow became commonplace.  Not a good sign, and the ripoffs prove something needs to be done.  Hopefully SR himself will take some action to tighten things up, but if not, we just have to hope newbies come on here, and get a bit educated before buying...
Title: Re: Scamtest
Post by: tcobambient on October 29, 2011, 05:56 am
Amen
Title: Re: Scamtest
Post by: kipperdore on October 29, 2011, 06:35 am
just to clarify, i in no way think that actually scamming people like peopleb4profits did is good or useful. that is not a scam test. that is a scam (disguised as an "ass-hole test").
Title: Re: Scamtest
Post by: Rook on October 29, 2011, 08:15 am
And drill it into people's heads not to buy btc on SR.

Amen!

I think we should petition SR to put that in the buyer's guide
Title: Re: Scamtest
Post by: scamtest on October 29, 2011, 04:16 pm
First off, I'm not a noob. Second, I didn't do this to amuse, inform or even help anyone. I did it out of simple curiosity and thought I'd post the result just in case anyone found it at all interesting, which some people have.
No-one deserves to get ripped off, I mean did I actually say that? No. But a wealth of help and advice is available to new buyers if they take the time to look at it.

I'm not trying to say 'Hey, look how clever I am'. It doesn't take much intelligence to scam people, but it also doesn't take much intelligence to avoid being scammed, just a bit of common sense really.
Whether you like what I did or not, I couldn't really give a crap. I've not hurt anyone or scammed anyone, in fact I may have saved some people some money. I did manage to entertain my self for a while though :) Think it's mean of me to waste peoples time like that? So what? I'm not pretending to be a nice person, I'm actually pretty unpleasant truth be told.
People will always get scammed, here and IRL. It's the way of the world I'm afraid.

In the end, I did this for myself, for my own entertainment and I don't give a flying fuck what anyone else thinks.

Bye now.
Title: Re: Scamtest
Post by: flangepot on October 29, 2011, 06:43 pm
wat a cunt
Title: Re: Scamtest
Post by: tcobambient on October 29, 2011, 09:38 pm
I have a question.  Is there a way that someone could get into my account if I never used the Wiki to arrive at SR?  I've always typed in the URL but somehow my account got cleared out.  Scam, you seem to know about this type of shit.  Any ideas? 
Title: Re: Scamtest
Post by: scamtest on October 29, 2011, 10:06 pm
Nice spelling flangepot. Scammers roll up, retard alert!

I'm no expert I'm afraid, but if you are absolutely sure that you have NEVER logged in through a phisher at ANY time in the past, all I can think of is someone having access to your system either physically or through some sort of keylogger.
But like I said, no expert.

Hey flange, don't tell me that's the limit of your sparkling wit. Come on, put your crayons down and try a little harder.
Title: Re: Scamtest
Post by: phubaiblues on October 30, 2011, 01:27 am
First off, I'm not a noob. Second, I didn't do this to amuse, inform or even help anyone. I did it out of simple curiosity and thought I'd post the result just in case anyone found it at all interesting, which some people have.
No-one deserves to get ripped off, I mean did I actually say that? No. But a wealth of help and advice is available to new buyers if they take the time to look at it.

I'm not trying to say 'Hey, look how clever I am'. It doesn't take much intelligence to scam people, but it also doesn't take much intelligence to avoid being scammed, just a bit of common sense really.
Whether you like what I did or not, I couldn't really give a crap. I've not hurt anyone or scammed anyone, in fact I may have saved some people some money. I did manage to entertain my self for a while though :) Think it's mean of me to waste peoples time like that? So what? I'm not pretending to be a nice person, I'm actually pretty unpleasant truth be told.
People will always get scammed, here and IRL. It's the way of the world I'm afraid.

In the end, I did this for myself, for my own entertainment and I don't give a flying fuck what anyone else thinks.

Bye now.

I hear you, but I know how irritated I would have been to find out somebody was a bogus seller, just 'testing' me...kind of condescending, etc.   And I know for a fact, that sellers would hate to have some 'scamtest' buyer come up with the same type of test, showing just how easy it was to rip off a bunch of sellers...think of the horrible trend ;)

A bunch of people just got ripped, and they and others--and me--were feeling might touchy about it...no worries, tho, this *was* interesting...(just don't anybody else do it too...please! ;)   Maybe you could put up a proposal, based on your tests, of ways that newcomers and innocents could be protected?
Title: Re: Scamtest
Post by: E=daveC² on October 30, 2011, 08:50 am
If I leave my front door unlocked, it's all right to go in and steal my money. That's your reasoning. Lack of information is the unlocked door. You trespass into my username because I don't understand how to use SR securely yet. It's all right to steal my money since my account was unlocked. I will rob that physically handicapped person since they are weaker. You steal from me using your strength over my intellectual handicap. Congratulations. Keep rationalizing to yourselves that taking people's property is justified because your victims are uninformed or careless so they deserve it.

Making people pay for buyer accounts could help. Too much would keep new buyers away so it'd have to be low. Maybe $10 or $20 in btc. That way the buyer would already know how to get Bitcoins and it would prevent some of the planted feedback and reduce useless accounts. Registering at the forum should be part of making an account, but there shouldn't be a required number of posts needed or time spent in the forums.

I think that some limitations to the number and value of transactions for new sellers and buyers would reduce the losses to scams and maybe discourage impatient thieves.

I hear the people who don't want any more rules and restrictions. But really, you already have to use Tor, pay a 6.25% fee, check the forums for scams and know how to use SR securely. I understand wanting to sell and buy anything available at will, but waiting a couple weeks for normal use is more likely to annoy scammers than legitimate SR users. Even with these changes, selective scams and waiting to scam after some real feedback can still happen.

It'll never be perfect , but it can always be better.
Title: Re: Scamtest
Post by: scamtest on October 30, 2011, 04:26 pm
davekozy: Which bit do you not understand about my posts? You're the second one that seems to think I've been stealing from people.

I HAVE NEVER STOLEN A FUCKING THING IN MY LIFE! Is that clear enough for you and anyone else who just skims through the posts. I also do not condone stealing from people. To continue your dubious analogy, if you were told by numerous people that there was a thief in your neighborhood who was going around checking peoples doors to see if they were unlocked would you really expect sympathy if you continued to leave your door unlocked and consequently got robbed?

phubaiblues: I have to agree, my timing sucks, I failed to consider the feelings of people recently scammed and appear to have rubbed their mistakes in their faces. For that I apologize to anyone who has truly been upset by my actions and posts.
I would love to be able to propose some improvements to be able to help newbies, but I don't think I'd come up with anything that cleverer people haven't already thought of.  This is human nature we're talking about here, both the ones who steal and the ones who rush into things.
Title: Re: Scamtest
Post by: E=daveC² on October 30, 2011, 10:56 pm
My post wasn't directed at you scamtest since you gave the money back. In fact, what you did will probably strengthen the site because those involved will be more mindful of account security.

It was towards the other poster fisher who said, since I left my money accessible anyone can justifiably take it. Say I leave money on the bar when I take a piss and it's gone when I come back. That's fine, since I left it unattended. How is taking advantage of people's mistakes or lack of knowledge the right thing to do? That's dishonest, dope fiend behavior.

The damn scammers returning to brag about and rationalize their conquests are just fucked up. Take the money and run. Psychopaths hurt people without remorse.
Title: Re: Scamtest
Post by: phubaiblues on October 31, 2011, 01:00 am
I'm actually starting to think, that the only way we can protect people is to go back to the way it was just a few months ago.  Transactions were done in escrow.  You didn't finalize until you received product.  Escrow was what made this site different from the other sites, and why newbies felt safe here....without escrow, as has been shown, it's just all too easy to rip, whether it be in btc, or actual product. 

I was the first guy I saw doing it, to put "trusted seller, finalize early" and now I wish I'd never done it...it was before hedging was available, and just to show some good will towards trusted sellers.  I thought it was a really cool thing, and I saw some other guys start to do it...but it got out of hand: I never figured sellers would start to ask for it, or even require it.   The fucked up thing, is that for the *good* sellers, it's no problem, but maybe they'd be willing to pay that price, if everybody had to do it, to ensure site's survival?

In any case, no worries scamtest, I know you're on our side, and want what's good for site, and this showed that something needs to be done...

 
Title: Re: Scamtest
Post by: KingJoey on October 31, 2011, 01:02 am
i hate scammers.

I got scammed for $300 now I am really afraid 2 buy much
Title: Re: Scamtest
Post by: jackstraw on October 31, 2011, 02:08 am
+100 on staying in escrow....unless you've got a FAN-fucking-Tastic  reason not too.   A seller requiring it automatically isn't a great reason IMO.  Unless that vendor is HIGHLY respected and has the most amazing FORUM feedback from trusted members....I wouldn't finalize early for any NEW vendor under any circumstances until they get some feedback.   There are no shortcuts to getting a good reputation.   All the recent scams have hurt too many.....everybody on the SR gets impacted by scammers in one way or another.

Bottom line is STAY IN ESCROW,  Hedged even better.
Title: Re: Scamtest
Post by: E=daveC² on October 31, 2011, 04:21 am
I finalized early for G2G and it looks like I got burned. I did it because it was an international order. At least it was only for a half. I understand sellers wanting their btc before shipping to another country because of the greater chance of it getting seized. Finalizing early transfers all of the risk to the buyer.

I won't go out of escrow for any US sellers unless I've dealt with them successfully a few times. Very few overseas sellers, even newer ones, will ship here without finalizing early so if I want what they've got, I've got to be willing to accept losing my money if the vendor doesn't come through or the package gets seized.

Title: Re: Scamtest
Post by: anton on November 03, 2011, 12:11 pm
were you trading as pillhead?
Title: Re: Scamtest
Post by: kipperdore on November 05, 2011, 09:31 am
phubaiblues: another thing you/we could do is IF we finalize early don't say so in the comments :o)
Title: Re: Scamtest
Post by: phubaiblues on November 06, 2011, 12:01 am
phubaiblues: another thing you/we could do is IF we finalize early don't say so in the comments :o)

Yeah, that's probably help, at least then it would seem like 'well, everybody else is doing it' kind of thing...I remember first time I finalized early, and just put that in box, so people would know I was sort of 'opting out' of escrow, and a way of showing that seller was *that* trusted...but it's just been added to scam.  The guy I still finalized early for--themunchies--could probably care less whether I do or don't. 

Mostly, it won't effect good relationships between sellers and buyers who've been here a while...but I just think it's being used to take away buyer's power, particularly new buyers, and they are the ones getting ripped, or just getting stuck waiting forever on a buyer who may or may not come thru....

I just today had a new seller, come thru with good product, and it was really nice to fill out the box, say how good stuff was, and click on the deserved 5/5 ... Us buyers have been sort of cutting our own throats by doing it so much, that it seems like the norm now, so I've quit doing it...reputable buyers have been totally ok with that...last one has his stuff hedged anyway....