Silk Road forums
Discussion => Off topic => Topic started by: danconia on July 10, 2013, 04:45 am
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So I have been buying MDMA on SR and selling IRL in my local area for almost a year now. Since we can consistently buy good quality MDMA on here my customers have been buying larger and larger quantities as time goes on. This means higher profits for me but also means more caps to put together and higher risk to me as a seller. I have a few "larger" quantity buyers (calling them that because relative to SR they'd be considered small-to-medium quantities, like 5g-28g of MDMA).
There is a degree of trust between me and these clients and I am starting to coordinate deals as more of a "broker" between my trusted customers and SR. One of my very close friends, for instance, worked a deal out with me where he deposits a certain amount of $ into my bank account and gets 28g of MDMA at whatever address he requests. I am considering doing this with some more of my customers. Since the profit margin is typically 2-3x the cost of the MDMA I can be flexible with how they deposit the money (all up front vs. half up-front & half upon-delivery vs. all upon delivery).
I was wondering... has anyone else done this or considered doing this? If this first attempt works (very likely that it will) then I may start selling this way since I would no longer have to keep any of the MDMA in my possession (nor cap them since the buyer agrees to receive as sand). I am *very* interested to hear your guys' thoughts on this...
- Less MDMA at my place
- Buyer just texts me their address
- Will likely use sellers that have tracking
- Cash deposits to my bank account are anonymous for the buyer, I can also receive cash in-hand if they live near wherever I may reside.
Thoughts?
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Yeah I think a lot of people evolve into this. I mean I could be making 4x as much gramming stuff out to every needledick around town but security is key. For a while I was selling to a handful of people then literally one. Then he met someone who wants at a higher price so I now literally order to someone I dont even know/never met. Still making like 250% ROI.
Yet another thing I don't think anyone thinks of is there is plenty investment opportunities in drugs if you have money just like anything else. Lots of people have connects but not enough money. Just be like a bank.
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Yes, this is a viable model.
Receive orders via SR with a different delivery address from one person selling smaller quantities IRL.
It's called drop-shipping.
terp
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Depends how long you want to do it for I guess....
If it were me, I'd be inclined to make more money, quickly - irrespective of the higher risk - then quit...
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First you sell tiny grams then you start sucking cock for money. In the end you wind up in jail dealing IRL.
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If you drop-ship SR, what do you do when someone (who you don't know well) complains that their order never arrived? Are you going to not believe them (even though it happens sometimes), try and resolve with the vendor (even though you're not sure), or just lose the BTC?
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If you drop-ship SR, what do you do when someone (who you don't know well) complains that their order never arrived? Are you going to not believe them (even though it happens sometimes), try and resolve with the vendor (even though you're not sure), or just lose the BTC?
This is the biggest sticking point. The good thing is that, for example, the 28g MDMA that I bought cost me ~$700 and I had my friend pay me $1650 for it. He could literally tell me that 50% of the time it hasn't showed up and I would still be making a profit. Obviously I'd have to be stupid to expect that sort of true failure rate but my point is that most likely I would take the following precautions:
a.) Start off clients with relatively small amounts (I'm thinking 10-20g). As the rate of successful deliveries stays high (I'm thinking 80%+) I can increase the quantity sent to them.
b.) If a decent vendor has an option for tracking, I will use tracking.
c.) As mentioned earlier I could even front the cost of the package which, if lost, probably wouldn't be worth that much compared to the overall $ I am making with multiple clients if I slowly build the business correctly.
d.) If a client's delivery rate is suspiciously low then I let them know I am considering halting business with them. The great thing about SR is that everyone is willing to bend over backwards to receive the consistent high-quality supply that we are able to receive (and give to others) from SR. Someone trying to defraud me would be throwing away the best supply / hook they could ever possibly come across. Try to screw me over twice for a quick $2000, for instance? Or keep a positive relationship with me and continue to make thousands of profits themselves each month their relationship with me remains in good standing.
Plus we cannot underestimate the feeling that comes with an IRL dealer having the best consistent quality of MDMA in town. I know because I've been selling locally for the last year. It gives you a good reputation in the party scene and, quite literally, makes a lot of hot girls want to fuck your brains out. The feeling of being in demand is alluring to anyone selling IRL with good quality MDMA. I will be partially giving away some of this feeling / reputation in order to remain safer and, in the long-run, make higher profits. Anyone who has sold good MDMA IRL will know what I'm talking about...
And if they flip out on me they don't have much information to rat me out on. Communications with them will occur on a pre-paid phone associated with no identity. The MDMA they have received will show a return address nowhere near where I live (most of my customers will not know my address anyway), and in fact may show postage from outside of the country.
Edit: In fact, if anything, I have more leverage over my buyers than they have over me if they were ever to threaten talking to the police. I know their identities, their addresses, and that they are likely to have MDMA at their apartment at any given time (let's be honest it's difficult for someone to be selling and just plain stop unless it was planned out a long time ahead). The whole point for me is to have less MDMA around so worst case scenario (this is highly unlikely) the cops bust down my door and find what? 10 pills of MDMA? That's laughable and would probably just make them pissed at the guy who snitches.
In general I'm not too concerned with my legal risks as a broker. If done correctly risks are so low that you'd have to be a fool to end up behind bars (again, as long as you never keep too much MDMA in your house).
Edit #2: I also suppose if I ever am suspicious of someone reporting a false no-show delivery then I could switch for one deal to a tracked vendor and see if they have the stupidity to do it again. It may be a better strategy to not tell them when it's tracked so that I have evidence to shut them up before I drop them as a client.
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Subbing
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This method has worked quite well for me.
You actually can make more money by doing less.
I won't give too much info on how I run my operation. Just make sure you find a vendor with tracking, that will be your saving grace with people who say "it never showed up."
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i would love to to this, but i live in the end of the world and here my orders usually take 20+ days =(
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I might add something worthy to consider;
What if your costumer starts to ask questions in case You are ordering from another country?
Regards,
bluehorn
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i would love to to this, but i live in the end of the world and here my orders usually take 20+ days =(
I have a feeling I know roughly where you are, and that sucks. To buy decently-priced orders I typically have to wait 7-14 (sometimes up to 21) days, so that is definitely a sticking point. This is one cause for not having someone pay 100% up front because they are waiting 1.5-3 weeks typically (in my case) for their orders (kinda like having to FE on SR).
What's funny is that I could order domestically, get the order to them within a week, and still make a solid profit if their order is large enough. If someone is having to pay some up-front and is not a fan of waiting 1.5-3 weeks then domestic may be something to consider.
And if they ask about international postage or intriguing return addresses... anyone can answer how they want but I most likely won't give them any answer to that question. Again if it's a big issue to them I can order domestic (or drop them as a customer). I might even switch up the vendor so the postage is from an even different country... then watch the look on their face LOL
Sometimes keeping an air of mystery commands more respect =D
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I might add something worthy to consider;
What if your costumer starts to ask questions in case You are ordering from another country?
Regards,
bluehorn
He tells them he has powerful friends the they assume OP is balls deep in the mafia or something ::)
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I might add something worthy to consider;
What if your costumer starts to ask questions in case You are ordering from another country?
Regards,
bluehorn
He tells them he has powerful friends the they assume OP is balls deep in the mafia or something ::)
Haha true!
Danconia, if You dont mind Id like to "hijack" this thread with a small question of my own :)
Imagine brokering or "drop-shipping" to another country.
Would it be best to first order to yourself, re-post it in a sterile environment, and then mail it to your costumer?
Hey! I just think I thought up an alternative for You Danconia!
Best regards,
bluehorn
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First you sell tiny grams then you start sucking cock for money. In the end you wind up in jail dealing IRL.
hit the nose on the head. never sell locally and never let your sellers sell within 20-50 miles depending on population and how identifiable your product is.
.02 btc
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Danconia, if You dont mind Id like to "hijack" this thread with a small question of my own :)
Imagine brokering or "drop-shipping" to another country.
Would it be best to first order to yourself, re-post it in a sterile environment, and then mail it to your costumer?
Hey! I just think I thought up an alternative for You Danconia!
Every individual has different priorities. I personally don't like the idea of having large amounts of MDMA at my apartment, even if only for an hour or two. I don't know any foreigners who want anything but if you can get tracking from a vendor on SR then why have the MDMA come to your place at all?
Or am I not understanding your question. I know for *domestic* brokering (is that a word) the only way I'd consider sending it out myself would be if I had suspicion that someone was lying to me about not receiving, I had not been using a vendor who issued tracking numbers, and planned on using tracking to find out the truth. From SR vendors I have heard that doing tracking in the US and Canada (I will admit North America is my residence) you actually have to go in to a USPS store in order to send a shipment with tracking. There might be a better way with UPS or FedEx but supposedly there are decent reasons not to use those companies in the first place (for instance I believe they don't need a warrant to open up your package, although I have a feeling USPS doesn't wait for warrants either).
never sell locally and never let your sellers sell within 20-50 miles depending on population and how identifiable your product is.
.02 btc
I'm curious about this, are you talking about selling directly or brokering, or both? I ask as someone who sells in population centers with more than 1 million people in them. I'm assuming the bigger, the more anonymity but am still curious about your advice.
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Definitely subbing. I have no idea if I have the network to do this right now, but I have a GOOD buddy that I've known for like 20 years, was a teammate with for about 10 of those years, that likely has the network but not the skills to use SR. He wants me to teach him how to use it, but we sort of talked about setting up system where he pays me and he gives me an address. It's so hard to ask questions on here because of the nature of the stakes, I'm used to being able to just point blank ask questions on forums haha. If I knew how to get the money completely anonymously, this is the way I would be doing it.
The question I do have tho, is if someone is busted and they roll on you, what exactly are you in trouble for anyway? How can they have any proof you did anything, other than the money? You technically didn't sell anything, you provided a service, no? Obviously, I'm pretty sure I'm vastly over simplifying it, but I feel like the risks are quite reduced.
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the only issue is how are you getting the cash, if it is a bank drop well they have your account info n if they where to flip how do you explain deposits from many places for X, Y, Z amount. Also your touching your own bank account, in the end its where did you get this money from aka asset seizure.
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the only issue is how are you getting the cash, if it is a bank drop well they have your account info n if they where to flip how do you explain deposits from many places for X, Y, Z amount. Also your touching your own bank account, in the end its where did you get this money from aka asset seizure.
Yeah, for sure. Either way, I like the idea and will definitely explore it myself.
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Danconia, if You dont mind Id like to "hijack" this thread with a small question of my own :)
Imagine brokering or "drop-shipping" to another country.
Would it be best to first order to yourself, re-post it in a sterile environment, and then mail it to your costumer?
Hey! I just think I thought up an alternative for You Danconia!
Every individual has different priorities. I personally don't like the idea of having large amounts of MDMA at my apartment, even if only for an hour or two. I don't know any foreigners who want anything but if you can get tracking from a vendor on SR then why have the MDMA come to your place at all?
Or am I not understanding your question. I know for *domestic* brokering (is that a word) the only way I'd consider sending it out myself would be if I had suspicion that someone was lying to me about not receiving, I had not been using a vendor who issued tracking numbers, and planned on using tracking to find out the truth. From SR vendors I have heard that doing tracking in the US and Canada (I will admit North America is my residence) you actually have to go in to a USPS store in order to send a shipment with tracking. There might be a better way with UPS or FedEx but supposedly there are decent reasons not to use those companies in the first place (for instance I believe they don't need a warrant to open up your package, although I have a feeling USPS doesn't wait for warrants either).
never sell locally and never let your sellers sell within 20-50 miles depending on population and how identifiable your product is.
.02 btc
I'm curious about this, are you talking about selling directly or brokering, or both? I ask as someone who sells in population centers with more than 1 million people in them. I'm assuming the bigger, the more anonymity but am still curious about your advice.
In my incoherent writing You understood the question correctly. Sometimes I dont seem to properly transfer my thoughts into plain text.
My apologies,
bluehorn
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the only issue is how are you getting the cash, if it is a bank drop well they have your account info n if they where to flip how do you explain deposits from many places for X, Y, Z amount. Also your touching your own bank account, in the end its where did you get this money from aka asset seizure.
You are right this is a weak point but the only way they'd push this far (IMO) is if you were caught with a *very big* network (I'm guessing millions upon millions per year). You can meet in-person if you trust the person enough to give you cash. I'd probably use that cash with LocalBitcoins (again, I live in large population areas) and acquire a shit-ton of BTC, and only have a few do cash deposits to my bank account.
Also, for those not well-versed in the black market... please take caution with cash deposits: do some research on money laundering and taxes, otherwise you'll have both the FBI and IRS knocking at your door.
My thoughts are not necessarily "what looks suspicious" but "what could actually hold up in court?" From the point of view of law enforcement, they typically only go for strong cases, cases which will garner a lot of press or $$ (including asset seizure), or cases which will make an example out of someone. Try your best not to fit into any of these 3 categories and you'll be keeping your risk low.
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the only issue is how are you getting the cash, if it is a bank drop well they have your account info n if they where to flip how do you explain deposits from many places for X, Y, Z amount. Also your touching your own bank account, in the end its where did you get this money from aka asset seizure.
You are right this is a weak point but the only way they'd push this far (IMO) is if you were caught with a *very big* network (I'm guessing millions upon millions per year). You can meet in-person if you trust the person enough to give you cash. I'd probably use that cash with LocalBitcoins (again, I live in large population areas) and acquire a shit-ton of BTC, and only have a few do cash deposits to my bank account.
Also, for those not well-versed in the black market... please take caution with cash deposits: do some research on money laundering and taxes, otherwise you'll have both the FBI and IRS knocking at your door.
My thoughts are not necessarily "what looks suspicious" but "what could actually hold up in court?" From the point of view of law enforcement, they typically only go for strong cases, cases which will garner a lot of press or $$ (including asset seizure), or cases which will make an example out of someone. Try your best not to fit into any of these 3 categories and you'll be keeping your risk low.
for MDMA 28g is a large amount to local PD, hell to them anything over a gram is a large amount. To the FED i'l have to say a ounce or two will get the attention if its steady. You have to rely on trust of the people who have your bank info not to flip and odds are if they are dealing its going to be the DEA or Drug Task force for PD who gets them then will try to flip them on the source. a ounce broken down to .14 rolls is a good amount of rolls!
There ARE ways to do this but im keeping my mouth shut on that as trade secrets are trade secrets. Before you engage in something with someone ask your self do you trust them to take the hit of anywhere from 2 years to life (MDMA min sentencing is a bit crazy these days) and NOT snitch you out to get a lower one. Most people talk the talk but will they walk the walk?
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for MDMA 28g is a large amount to local PD, hell to them anything over a gram is a large amount. To the FED i'l have to say a ounce or two will get the attention if its steady. You have to rely on trust of the people who have your bank info not to flip and odds are if they are dealing its going to be the DEA or Drug Task force for PD who gets them then will try to flip them on the source. a ounce broken down to .14 rolls is a good amount of rolls!
There ARE ways to do this but im keeping my mouth shut on that as trade secrets are trade secrets. Before you engage in something with someone ask your self do you trust them to take the hit of anywhere from 2 years to life (MDMA min sentencing is a bit crazy these days) and NOT snitch you out to get a lower one. Most people talk the talk but will they walk the walk?
I have no disagreements with any of your statements here. I suppose a bit of it will depend upon whether the client is snagged by LE because of the mail (federal government, must be taken more seriously) or because of their IRL dealing (most likely their local law enforcement, taken less seriously but still seriously).
This may give a slight bit more weight to buying and shipping from a domestic vendor, as lack of customs will decrease the risk of the mail getting caught.
It's all food for thought.
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for MDMA 28g is a large amount to local PD, hell to them anything over a gram is a large amount. To the FED i'l have to say a ounce or two will get the attention if its steady. You have to rely on trust of the people who have your bank info not to flip and odds are if they are dealing its going to be the DEA or Drug Task force for PD who gets them then will try to flip them on the source. a ounce broken down to .14 rolls is a good amount of rolls!
There ARE ways to do this but im keeping my mouth shut on that as trade secrets are trade secrets. Before you engage in something with someone ask your self do you trust them to take the hit of anywhere from 2 years to life (MDMA min sentencing is a bit crazy these days) and NOT snitch you out to get a lower one. Most people talk the talk but will they walk the walk?
I have no disagreements with any of your statements here. I suppose a bit of it will depend upon whether the client is snagged by LE because of the mail (federal government, must be taken more seriously) or because of their IRL dealing (most likely their local law enforcement, taken less seriously but still seriously).
This may give a slight bit more weight to buying and shipping from a domestic vendor, as lack of customs will decrease the risk of the mail getting caught.
It's all food for thought.
The price margin between domestic and international is why if you where to do something like this you'd have to go outside the states for the weight. I think its 12-1500 for a ounce domestic? Thats about street price as most ounces of MDMA go for 1800 max. So when you factor in the cost of coin and your time, well sure if you have a dozen or so people buying at 1800 a pop then making 3-600 per oz is worth it as it will add up but since profit margin is always the name of the game....7-800 per ounce sounds a lot better if you ask me.
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for MDMA 28g is a large amount to local PD, hell to them anything over a gram is a large amount. To the FED i'l have to say a ounce or two will get the attention if its steady. You have to rely on trust of the people who have your bank info not to flip and odds are if they are dealing its going to be the DEA or Drug Task force for PD who gets them then will try to flip them on the source. a ounce broken down to .14 rolls is a good amount of rolls!
There ARE ways to do this but im keeping my mouth shut on that as trade secrets are trade secrets. Before you engage in something with someone ask your self do you trust them to take the hit of anywhere from 2 years to life (MDMA min sentencing is a bit crazy these days) and NOT snitch you out to get a lower one. Most people talk the talk but will they walk the walk?
I have no disagreements with any of your statements here. I suppose a bit of it will depend upon whether the client is snagged by LE because of the mail (federal government, must be taken more seriously) or because of their IRL dealing (most likely their local law enforcement, taken less seriously but still seriously).
This may give a slight bit more weight to buying and shipping from a domestic vendor, as lack of customs will decrease the risk of the mail getting caught.
It's all food for thought.
The price margin between domestic and international is why if you where to do something like this you'd have to go outside the states for the weight. I think its 12-1500 for a ounce domestic? Thats about street price as most ounces of MDMA go for 1800 max. So when you factor in the cost of coin and your time, well sure if you have a dozen or so people buying at 1800 a pop then making 3-600 per oz is worth it as it will add up but since profit margin is always the name of the game....7-800 per ounce sounds a lot better if you ask me.
And not only that, but with less transactions and higher profit margin, you will draw less attention(hopefully, anyway) over the long run. However, people that cap the MDMA sell it for a markup on that $xxxx/oz price...plus like the OP pointed out, people will pay for our high quality SR connects. I agree tho, if you are going to do it, you pretty much HAVE to do international orders, there just isn't much meat left domestically...and the product might not be as high of quality as say LL's in CA.
I think the ideal thing to do would be to accept btc. You never see the person, you give them an address, they send coin, it clears, you tumble it, then place the order to the customers address. I wish it were easier to get coins, but I guess you would still have the issue of withdrawing the cash...
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You've been SRing for a year and you just thought about doing this? ;)
Also, I wouldn't have them text you the addresses. You could have them send the address to an email you only access through tor. Mailinator is a good service for this.
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You've been SRing for a year and you just thought about doing this? ;)
Also, I wouldn't have them text you the addresses. You could have them send the address to an email you only access through tor. Mailinator is a good service for this.
It's not that I just thought about doing this. I have already started doing it, it's only now that I wanted input from the community (I realize you're just poking a little fun). If someone were selling locally and had built up a decent client-base but were planning on moving to a different locale, for instance, you could see why this idea might be attractive to them. It'd be a pity for so much work to go to waste ;)
And yes TorMail will have its use. It probably is safer than a throwaway phone I would think. I have messed around with SecureText on Android but I believe it requires the customer to know how encryption works (naturally most people do not).
Anyway I'll be testing this out in the weeks to come and will certainly report back.
I think the ideal thing to do would be to accept btc. You never see the person, you give them an address, they send coin, it clears, you tumble it, then place the order to the customers address. I wish it were easier to get coins, but I guess you would still have the issue of withdrawing the cash...
I initially agreed with this but one risk is that if your customer knows how to get BTC... they're just a stone's throw away from buying their own stuff on SR. Like most issues with this it's a trade-off.
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You've been SRing for a year and you just thought about doing this? ;)
Also, I wouldn't have them text you the addresses. You could have them send the address to an email you only access through tor. Mailinator is a good service for this.
It's not that I just thought about doing this. I have already started doing it, it's only now that I wanted input from the community (I realize you're just poking a little fun). If someone were selling locally and had built up a decent client-base but were planning on moving to a different locale, for instance, you could see why this idea might be attractive to them. It'd be a pity for so much work to go to waste ;)
And yes TorMail will have its use. It probably is safer than a throwaway phone I would think. I have messed around with SecureText on Android but I believe it requires the customer to know how encryption works (naturally most people do not).
Anyway I'll be testing this out in the weeks to come and will certainly report back.
I think the ideal thing to do would be to accept btc. You never see the person, you give them an address, they send coin, it clears, you tumble it, then place the order to the customers address. I wish it were easier to get coins, but I guess you would still have the issue of withdrawing the cash...
I initially agreed with this but one risk is that if your customer knows how to get BTC... they're just a stone's throw away from buying their own stuff on SR. Like most issues with this it's a trade-off.
let us know how it goes, avoid btc+phones+banks 8)