Silk Road forums

Discussion => Security => Topic started by: kyzersoze on July 22, 2013, 06:10 pm

Title: Anyone read todays Wired article about the feds selling fake i.d.'s?
Post by: kyzersoze on July 22, 2013, 06:10 pm
Interesting read to say the least.  I always thought something like this would be considered entrapment.  Now it makes me wonder if it could be going on here.  While I was reading it I kept thinking about SR and some of the new marketplaces that have popped up recently...

Clearnet link - http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2013/07/open-market/
Title: Re: Anyone read todays Wired article about the feds selling fake i.d.'s?
Post by: eguy85 on July 22, 2013, 09:28 pm
Its different from silk road. Not sure about other countries but in America at least LE cannot allow drugs to re-enter the marketplace, that is why if you are going to get a CD they bust in the door soon after.
Title: Re: Anyone read todays Wired article about the feds selling fake i.d.'s?
Post by: chriscalderon on July 23, 2013, 01:57 am
Hey Kyzer, plus 1 for that post!

From what I understand and someone please correct me if I am wrong, entrapment is where law enforcement causes a person to break the law through coercion when that person would have otherwise not broken the law on their own.

An extreme example of this would be where a police officer, whether plainclothes or in uniform, sees someone walking by a bike rack and the citizen is paying no attention to the bike rack, clearly focused on something, their mind elsewhere.

The officer approaches and says "Hey, let's steal this bike.

The citizen says "No. I'm not doing that."

The officer states "If you don't steal this bike, I'll kill you."

Alarmed the citizen quickens their pace "I'm getting out of here!"

The officer reveals his firearm and repeats "If you don't steal this bike I will kill you."

The citizen finally breaks the lock on the bike and is ready to hop on and ride off when the officer slaps handcuffs on him and arrests him for stealing the bike. That is entrapment.

If someone was already breaking the law and the officer begins to break the law with the individual as part of an undercover operation or as part of extended surveillance or a criminal investigation, that does not meet the definition of entrapment.

Seriously though, thank you for posting that article. It was really interesting and just like you I kept thinking "Somehow they are attempting something similar with Silk Road. And will it be like the farmer's market bust? Will a bunch of vendors from around the world suddenly be arrested simultaneously one morning?"

I sincerely hope not.
Title: Re: Anyone read todays Wired article about the feds selling fake i.d.'s?
Post by: bluedev1 on July 23, 2013, 12:01 pm
buying fake ids in general seems like a bad idea since this is in the anti-terrorist realm.  if the nsa is tapping every email and phone conversation, you better believe they have their tentacles out far and wide trying to find people interested in fake ids.
Title: Re: Anyone read todays Wired article about the feds selling fake i.d.'s?
Post by: modziw on July 23, 2013, 01:15 pm
Good thing I only use my fake ID to buy beer...

Modzi
Title: Re: Anyone read todays Wired article about the feds selling fake i.d.'s?
Post by: ProudCannabian on July 23, 2013, 02:13 pm
Crazy article.
The feds can sell you anything.  There is no rule that says they cannot allow drugs to re-enter the chain during undercover ops.
We call that BS.
Title: Re: Anyone read todays Wired article about the feds selling fake i.d.'s?
Post by: boosties on July 23, 2013, 02:18 pm
Crazy article.
The feds can sell you anything.  There is no rule that says they cannot allow drugs to re-enter the chain during undercover ops.
We call that BS.
+1 you have to love all of the rules people come up with. they can do anyting the need
to in the name of justice or anti-terrorism. they can not only sell drugs they can use them if
its for the cause.(especially higher up agencies)
Title: Re: Anyone read todays Wired article about the feds selling fake i.d.'s?
Post by: CaptainDabs on July 23, 2013, 02:24 pm
This seems to be out of Clark County Nevada. I spent 3 months locked up at CCDC and was told by plenty of fellow inmates that they do not have an entrapment law in Nevada. Which could be completely wrong, but I know Clark County cops are the dirtiest cops known to man. Would expect something of this sort by them.

Title: Re: Anyone read todays Wired article about the feds selling fake i.d.'s?
Post by: fbny71 on July 23, 2013, 04:27 pm
This is CRAZY!
Title: Re: Anyone read todays Wired article about the feds selling fake i.d.'s?
Post by: tbart on July 23, 2013, 05:51 pm
well, one of the attys in the article referenced entrapment issues and i'll agree. Cops leave a "honeypot" car on the street, (one known to be popular with car thieves) with cameras onboard, to catch car thieves - i'll agree that is not entrapment. Female vice cops posing as prostitutes (but never actually performing the services) and nailing johns, again, not entrapment - they provided them with the opportunity to commit the crime. Cops manufacturing fake ids - think we've gone over the line,

but it'll be decided by someone way above my pay grade
Title: Re: Anyone read todays Wired article about the feds selling fake i.d.'s?
Post by: 99herps on July 23, 2013, 09:01 pm
entrapment is where law enforcement causes a person to break the law through coercion when that person would have otherwise not broken the law on their own.
This. Nobody coerced anyone to buy those IDs. It's never entrapment if you willingly commit the crime.
Title: Re: Anyone read todays Wired article about the feds selling fake i.d.'s?
Post by: xx138xx on July 23, 2013, 09:34 pm
There's also no way you can honestly believe cops don't allow drugs to pass back into the street markets during investigations. Everybody seems to forget it was supposedly against the rules for them to do that with firearms too but the ATF blatantly sold working guns right to the Mexican cartels  in the name of "investigating".

Not to mention the CIA helping to fund itself via heroin coming out of Afghanistan. It's been happening there for decades now and was happening in SE Asia as far back as the 1960s.

If they want a bust bad enough, there are no rules or rights that they'll allow to stand in their way.
Title: Re: Anyone read todays Wired article about the feds selling fake i.d.'s?
Post by: CosmoCanyon on July 24, 2013, 01:14 am
ABC crew always have had the monopoly on violence, and everything. One of them is creating a fake ID's is bad? uh thats the least illegal thing they do probably.

Also, speak of laws and rights, but that era is over. Cops are just the jackboot on the ground to enforce the will of the slave master. A cop's job is to kill you on the street if you won't be a good slave.
Title: Re: Anyone read todays Wired article about the feds selling fake i.d.'s?
Post by: Monty Cantsin on July 24, 2013, 02:50 am
For those who keep asserting that it is entrapment for LE to do this or that see "Terrorist Plots, Hatched by the F.B.I." in the NY times,excerpt:

" THE United States has been narrowly saved from lethal terrorist plots in recent years — or so it has seemed. A would-be suicide bomber was intercepted on his way to the Capitol; a scheme to bomb synagogues and shoot Stinger missiles at military aircraft was developed by men in Newburgh, N.Y.; and a fanciful idea to fly explosive-laden model planes into the Pentagon and the Capitol was hatched in Massachusetts.


But all these dramas were facilitated by the F.B.I., whose undercover agents and informers posed as terrorists offering a dummy missile, fake C-4 explosives, a disarmed suicide vest and rudimentary training. Suspects naïvely played their parts until they were arrested.

 When an Oregon college student, Mohamed Osman Mohamud, thought of using a car bomb to attack a festive Christmas-tree lighting ceremony in Portland, the F.B.I. provided a van loaded with six 55-gallon drums of “inert material,” harmless blasting caps, a detonator cord and a gallon of diesel fuel to make the van smell flammable. An undercover F.B.I. agent even did the driving, with Mr. Mohamud in the passenger seat. To trigger the bomb the student punched a number into a cellphone and got no boom, only a bust.

This is legal, but is it legitimate? Without the F.B.I., would the culprits commit violence on their own? Is cultivating potential terrorists the best use of the manpower designed to find the real ones? Judging by their official answers, the F.B.I. and the Justice Department are sure of themselves — too sure, perhaps.

Carefully orchestrated sting operations usually hold up in court. Defendants invariably claim entrapment and almost always lose, because the law requires that they show no predisposition to commit the crime, even when induced by government agents. "
Title: Re: Anyone read todays Wired article about the feds selling fake i.d.'s?
Post by: boosties on July 25, 2013, 04:01 pm
For those who keep asserting that it is entrapment for LE to do this or that see "Terrorist Plots, Hatched by the F.B.I." in the NY times,excerpt:

" THE United States has been narrowly saved from lethal terrorist plots in recent years — or so it has seemed. A would-be suicide bomber was intercepted on his way to the Capitol; a scheme to bomb synagogues and shoot Stinger missiles at military aircraft was developed by men in Newburgh, N.Y.; and a fanciful idea to fly explosive-laden model planes into the Pentagon and the Capitol was hatched in Massachusetts.


But all these dramas were facilitated by the F.B.I., whose undercover agents and informers posed as terrorists offering a dummy missile, fake C-4 explosives, a disarmed suicide vest and rudimentary training. Suspects naïvely played their parts until they were arrested.

 When an Oregon college student, Mohamed Osman Mohamud, thought of using a car bomb to attack a festive Christmas-tree lighting ceremony in Portland, the F.B.I. provided a van loaded with six 55-gallon drums of “inert material,” harmless blasting caps, a detonator cord and a gallon of diesel fuel to make the van smell flammable. An undercover F.B.I. agent even did the driving, with Mr. Mohamud in the passenger seat. To trigger the bomb the student punched a number into a cellphone and got no boom, only a bust.

This is legal, but is it legitimate? Without the F.B.I., would the culprits commit violence on their own? Is cultivating potential terrorists the best use of the manpower designed to find the real ones? Judging by their official answers, the F.B.I. and the Justice Department are sure of themselves — too sure, perhaps.

Carefully orchestrated sting operations usually hold up in court. Defendants invariably claim entrapment and almost always lose, because the law requires that they show no predisposition to commit the crime, even when induced by government agents. "
exactly especially in the name of preventing terrorism, they can sell you drugs and let them back on the streets if lets say your organization is big enough and maybe linked to something they consider terrorism.
there is no boundries for what they can do in this country to prevent it. they can hold you indefinitely without even charging you anymore, just because. doesnt matter what you think is entrapment....the gloves
are off in this country.(if you didnt notice already)
Title: Re: Anyone read todays Wired article about the feds selling fake i.d.'s?
Post by: boosties on July 25, 2013, 04:05 pm
I think the only saving grace we have on SR is that most of us are a peaceful,
hardworking people who dont really believe in harming others. Seems as of late they
are really focused on the automatic weapons and the otc synthetics. hopefully that
keeps them busy for a long time....
Title: Re: Anyone read todays Wired article about the feds selling fake i.d.'s?
Post by: Monty Cantsin on July 29, 2013, 04:41 pm
Also applies to the War on certain drugs aka the War on Drugs:

"So…what is Operation Fast and Furious?

Fast and Furious was a “gun-walking” operation conducted by the Phoenix, Arizona branch of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (or the ATF) from 2009 and 2011. The idea was to encourage licensed Arizona gun merchants to sell firearms to known criminals, in the hope that law enforcement would be able to then trace the weapons from Arizona as they crossed the border into Mexico, slowly making their way into the hands of bloodthirsty Mexican drug cartels. Fast and Furious was part of a broader series of investigations called Project Gunrunner, all of which had the collective long-term goal of halting the flow of weapons to criminals in Mexico. Arizona gun sellers sold about 2,000 weapons to “straw” buyers, often young kids lured by a reported $100 per transaction. The ATF lost track of an estimated 1,700 of those guns. One buyer alone is reported to have purchased 600 of the weapons. In another incident, one buyer went on a spree, snapping up 34 firearms in about three weeks."

And this was the first time the feds had tried this?

No. In fact, two similar gun-walking operations, including one run out of the same Phoenix-area office that oversaw Operation Fast and Furious, were conducted under President George W. Bush. The first, Operation Wide Receiver, ran from 2006 to 2007, and tried to make use of the same chain of gun buyers, smugglers, and middle men who tossed deadly weapons up the ladder to cartel enforcers. Both Wide Receiver and the 2007 probe allowed guns to make their way across the border in a manner similar to Fast and Furious."

Title: Re: Anyone read todays Wired article about the feds selling fake i.d.'s?
Post by: Thetruthseeker1234 on July 29, 2013, 06:35 pm
Also applies to the War on certain drugs aka the War on Drugs:

"So…what is Operation Fast and Furious?

Fast and Furious was a “gun-walking” operation conducted by the Phoenix, Arizona branch of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (or the ATF) from 2009 and 2011. The idea was to encourage licensed Arizona gun merchants to sell firearms to known criminals, in the hope that law enforcement would be able to then trace the weapons from Arizona as they crossed the border into Mexico, slowly making their way into the hands of bloodthirsty Mexican drug cartels. Fast and Furious was part of a broader series of investigations called Project Gunrunner, all of which had the collective long-term goal of halting the flow of weapons to criminals in Mexico. Arizona gun sellers sold about 2,000 weapons to “straw” buyers, often young kids lured by a reported $100 per transaction. The ATF lost track of an estimated 1,700 of those guns. One buyer alone is reported to have purchased 600 of the weapons. In another incident, one buyer went on a spree, snapping up 34 firearms in about three weeks."

And this was the first time the feds had tried this?

No. In fact, two similar gun-walking operations, including one run out of the same Phoenix-area office that oversaw Operation Fast and Furious, were conducted under President George W. Bush. The first, Operation Wide Receiver, ran from 2006 to 2007, and tried to make use of the same chain of gun buyers, smugglers, and middle men who tossed deadly weapons up the ladder to cartel enforcers. Both Wide Receiver and the 2007 probe allowed guns to make their way across the border in a manner similar to Fast and Furious."
I was just going to bring that up. Do you remember in the last few years when one of those lost guns showed up. Remember? It was used to murder some people. Oops I guess right? 
Title: Re: Anyone read todays Wired article about the feds selling fake i.d.'s?
Post by: teaball on July 30, 2013, 01:06 am
I bet they're good quality. Anyone have a link or price?