Silk Road forums
Discussion => Security => Topic started by: MightyMouse on June 09, 2012, 12:04 pm
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Time has come to debate if opening a P.O box with USPS useing fake info is a yay or nay.
Id: College student id card, drivers license and a lease thats faked but looks 100% to a real one .
Will it be possible to just walk in with the app, the ID items an get the box or is it doomed to fail?
what exactly does the USPS worker see on the screen when you ask for a P.O box?
tips/advice
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If you have a fake drivers license that will pass for you, and you can print up a fake lease, then your golden..
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do they check on the papers or no?
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hell no. they are bureaucrats; checking on your papers would be a lot of work. they might file, shuffle, staple, fold or folder them. that is as far as they will get. you are safe.
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If you get busted for the drugs, you'll be beyond fucked for the fake documents.
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My opinion would be if you're getting smaller amounts, for personal use, you're better off getting a PO box with real information. If you're getting larger amounts that you would surely be investigated and prosecuted for if they were found, then you're better off getting a PO box with fake information.
If a small amount for personal use was seized, it isn't likely they will pursue you, the buyer, and if they did the penalty wouldn't be nearly as harsh as if you had a fake PO box setup which also kills any plausible deniability claim you could have made.
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only worry is them playing with the paper work, aslong as the fake items in question wont be questioned more then once (at sign up) then thats all i care about.
id rather NOT get yanked for opening one with fake info ;)
anyways for kicks what is the charge for opening a p.o box with fake info?
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As long as the fake docs all match up and are of a good quality, I think you should be alright to open it. You would only get stung if they could link the real you to the fake you.r..
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Big nay
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You must have on damn good fake ID
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Exactly as others have said before me...and the ongoing debate on here...is that if you ever do get in trouble, this will look very bad, and you loose whatever 'plausible deniability' you might have had before you did this. The Prosecuting Attorney might have a hell of time explaining bitcoins...but he won't have any problem at all explaing 'fake id' and the simple fact that you lied to obtain a p.o. box. The srt of thing a jury can get their heads around. Much of this stuff would be difficult for them to understand, and even a public defender should be able to get an aquittal...you can't prove the shit you got in the mail was ordered by you.
Stuff like this creates more problems than it solves, and might attract attention you wouldn't normally receive. Best shot, IMO, use your own address, have shit sent you with a slightly misspelled name...practice 'being surprised' in front of a mirror...don't add to the circumstantial evidence...*especially* stuff that seems kind of sinister...normal nice people don't need a fake p.o. box.
Odds are, you never will get in trouble...but if you do, do you really think this will help you, or just make you look more suspicious?
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Exactly as others have said before me...and the ongoing debate on here...is that if you ever do get in trouble, this will look very bad, and you loose whatever 'plausible deniability' you might have had before you did this. The Prosecuting Attorney might have a hell of time explaining bitcoins...but he won't have any problem at all explaing 'fake id' and the simple fact that you lied to obtain a p.o. box. The srt of thing a jury can get their heads around. Much of this stuff would be difficult for them to understand, and even a public defender should be able to get an aquittal...you can't prove the shit you got in the mail was ordered by you.
Stuff like this creates more problems than it solves, and might attract attention you wouldn't normally receive. Best shot, IMO, use your own address, have shit sent you with a slightly misspelled name...practice 'being surprised' in front of a mirror...don't add to the circumstantial evidence...*especially* stuff that seems kind of sinister...normal nice people don't need a fake p.o. box.
Odds are, you never will get in trouble...but if you do, do you really think this will help you, or just make you look more suspicious?
I KNOW that it HAS helped at least two major LSD importers!
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Just remember that if anything ever happens to draw heat upon your PO box, and the feds decide it's actually worth the expenditure to nail the owner of said box... they will almost CERTAINLY catch you anyway, and at a minimum, you will be guilty of mail fraud and lose all hope of being able to plausibly deny anything else.
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you have next to no deniability even with a po box under your real id since only you and employees at that postal store know about it
fake id boxes are the clear win here
Nope, and that's not what we are saying. You get some dope in the mail, you say you didn't order it...all else looks good, who's to say? It seems like 'reasonable double' to me.
Same situation, except it turns out you have a bogus P.O. box, and aquired it with fake identification. That circumstantial evidence would be enough to sway a jury. It would be much harder to claim innocence, now not only do you have a fake P.O. box, but you are getting dope there.
fake id boxes are *not* clear win, and there's a reason, that from day one on here, people have been saying so. Everybody gets to make their own choice, and ride their own beef here, of course, but be aware of what you are doing, and what it looks like to a jury.
The less illegal crap I clutter up my life with, the better I look if some Postal Inspector starts wondering why I got this weird shit in the mail....
If not, hell, we'd all get a fake i.d and trot down and open up a P.O. box in someone else's name.
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oh well if your mind is made up already, what can i do? i'm sad that people don't want to use the clearly better option, after all we're all on the same team and i want everybody to be safe, no matter that amounts that you buy or sell. but if you choose to do things in an unsafe manner, it's just more white noise to protect me.
We all want everyone to be safe; I am just one of those who doesn't see how using a fake ID to fraudulently obtain a PO box in order to receive drugs is more of a win than using your own name. It offers the illusion of safety, of some level of insulation, but nothing real... It's just a mirage.
The way I see it is that you're assuming more risk by using a fake id. It's fraud in and of itself, and more evidence to corroborate whatever else you end up getting charged with if something goes awry. Even if nothing else sticks, the fraud charge will.
And how much insulation does using a fake ID offer anyway? You are still physically tied to the PO box if you want to get whatever goodies are locked up inside. If federal agents want the owner of a suspect box, they will almost certainly get their man because the owner of the box will never know something is amiss until it's too late.
It won't be Barney Fife, or even Andy Griffith coming for you- it will be a coordinated effort by a group of highly trained, skilled, intelligent, motivated people who take what they do very seriously. It is sheer fantasy to think that using a fake ID is somehow going to protect you in the event that something goes down.
We each stand alone when we open the mailbox, so do whatever you feel comfortable doing... Just think it through several times, and don't underestimate the people who will be coming for you if they decide you're worth their effort.
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Wouldn't a drop be safer? Even if you were caught getting the mail you could claim that you were stealing it but if caught getting the mail from the PO box you're only adding more charges (fraud).
There are usually a lot of potential drops if you just look for them. If you're trying to move a lot of weight you can have smaller amounts sent to various different drops. If you're caught at one drop you're not going to get the same possession charge as if you were caught with all of the drug at a single location.
This is just my opinion, feel free to correct me if you think I'm wrong.
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It really just points at the dilemma we all generally face, which is that the more stuff I use to hide my identity, the guiltier I look if someone gets suspicious. If you were trying to get a search warrant--or arrest warrant if you have enough evidence--something like this is what they are looking for. Cops usually figure you are guilty, then look for stuff that will prove it, not the other way around.
It's not that we've already made up our minds, it's that nobody is presenting any new evidence. Go look at the first couple weeks in this very forum. This question has been floating around since the beginning. We all go thru it...so if all of us immediately think of doing something like this, don't you think the cops think the same thing?
I don't sweat if people get fake i.d. and get p.o. boxes either, nor do I presume they'll all get busted and only I'll walk free...fuck, I'm not that arrogant. A whole lot of luck figures into this whole thing. Do what you're most comfortable with...it's totally cool with me ;)
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Just remember that if anything ever happens to draw heat upon your PO box, and the feds decide it's actually worth the expenditure to nail the owner of said box... they will almost CERTAINLY catch you anyway, and at a minimum, you will be guilty of mail fraud and lose all hope of being able to plausibly deny anything else.
They just don't care about people importing five grams of pure crystal LSD? Of course it is intuitive to think that if they have the address and want the person they will get them from doing manned surveillance, but in practice I have seen that this is not always how things work out for them. The tracking says something about it being intercepted or other suspicious things, everyone in the group order is raided and the people with fake ID boxes just don't go to pick up. Also there are of course other benefits, it is no longer a game of recording addresses on the outgoing mail of a single person who is under surveillance, but becomes a game of putting all of these widely distributed points under manned surveillance waiting for people to pick up packages, the difference in cost between these two sorts of operation is enormous when you consider a vendor serving a customer base of a hundred people. It is the difference between a single agency actively pursuing that vendor and dozens of agencies cooperating to actively pursue the entire network. It also has the added benefit of being able to ditch the box after the vendor you work with is busted or starts acting suspiciously, not having a history of a hundred random packages from all over coming to your home address. Not to mention you are no longer worried about being blackmailed with your address if you work with the wrong person. What if you decide to start vending later and one of the vendors you worked with turns out to be a fed, it is the difference between them knowing who you are and them knowing a box that you used once that they never bothered to put under surveillance.
I personally think that people writing off fake ID boxes have unrealistic expectations about the plausible deniability that they have, if you accept a package of drugs and open it and are raided half an hour later you are going to be charged for possession of those drugs and no story you make up about how you had no idea drugs were coming to you is going to do shit to protect you.
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you have next to no deniability even with a po box under your real id since only you and employees at that postal store know about it
fake id boxes are the clear win here
Nope, and that's not what we are saying. You get some dope in the mail, you say you didn't order it...all else looks good, who's to say? It seems like 'reasonable double' to me.
Same situation, except it turns out you have a bogus P.O. box, and aquired it with fake identification. That circumstantial evidence would be enough to sway a jury. It would be much harder to claim innocence, now not only do you have a fake P.O. box, but you are getting dope there.
fake id boxes are *not* clear win, and there's a reason, that from day one on here, people have been saying so. Everybody gets to make their own choice, and ride their own beef here, of course, but be aware of what you are doing, and what it looks like to a jury.
The less illegal crap I clutter up my life with, the better I look if some Postal Inspector starts wondering why I got this weird shit in the mail....
If not, hell, we'd all get a fake i.d and trot down and open up a P.O. box in someone else's name.
From day one on SR people were saying that fake ID may not be best, in the private scene (where far more vendors than customers hang out) people laugh at the idea of getting shit sent to their real address.
Fake ID clearly doesn't *always* work or else Enelysion wouldn't have been arrested (although he did keep using a box that had a love letter sent to it)...but if it were not for fake ID boxes several people would have been busted who were not
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how does one safely access their po box? that is, without being seen by cameras (a disguise I guess?) or caught by feds waiting for you to pick up your package
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For small amounts, I would use a PO box (and probably with real info, lacking of fake ID). Not so much to protect myself from LE, rather to not disclose my home address to sellers. Most vendors are good professional people, but you never know who's who, and you're still dealing with drug dealers (which is not necessarily a profession I frown upon, but we have seen certain behavior in the past...) .
For large amounts, I would avoid using the mail altogether. Because when a large amount is intercepted, they know it's not for personal use, and then it's a lot more likely that they go after the buyer. Instead, I would consider a drop off location.
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how does one safely access their po box? that is, without being seen by cameras (a disguise I guess?) or caught by feds waiting for you to pick up your package
At the end of the day if the feds are waiting for you to pick up your package, you are fucked. The only way around this is having shipments sent with interception detection technology that you can remotely query to see if the package has been opened on the route between the sender and your box. You still have the added advantage of making it more expensive for them to bust you, it is the difference between them knowing your address and them having to wait for you to pick up a package. Assuming a cost difference of even only one thousand dollars (which is a reasonable estimate for the man hours it would take to do surveillance for the time it takes you to pick up your package after it arrives) this quickly adds up if a thousand people are using fake ID boxes (to be exact, the cost of identifying all of them would increase by one million dollars). The cost of identifying one thousand people who are not using fake ID boxes is pretty close to zero dollars, assuming they can get the shipping information, which is assumed in either case. An increase in cost of a million dollars is significant, although a drop in the bucket for government it seems far less likely for them to spend a million dollars to identify 1,000 people ordering small amounts of drugs than it is for them to spend zero dollars to identify 1,000 people ordering small amounts of drugs.
Also, you have the other added advantages that I mentioned earlier in this thread. The only disadvantage is that you are breaking several other laws by opening such a box. Well, if you use out of state ID you may be opening yourself up to intelligence attacks.