Silk Road forums
Discussion => Drug safety => Topic started by: TheBusiness on September 23, 2012, 09:25 am
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Good (but long) article about MDPV.
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/multimedia/bath-salts/
(do we really need to warn each other about clearnet links? Who exactly can't tell the difference?)
TL/DR
This GIF shows the different effects of drugs on dopamine levels using kitchen sink metaphor.
http://i.imgur.com/P4csH.gif
"MDPV is irreversible, it won't let go," De Felice said. "I don't know of any other drug that has that same feature of not allowing you to escape from it."
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MDPV is some nasty shit. from being a coke user for years, I decided to try MDPV out as cheaper alternative. I used 1 G. I was high for five days. I wasn't able to sleep three days after my last line. My throat was soar as hell, couldn't swallow a thing for a whole week. A whole month after my use. I still can't feel the side of my leg and got some numb sensations in my toes. My teeth are sensitive to hot and cold. This shit fucked me up. Stay away from this shit as far as you can.......Your better off snorting battery acid. BEWARE !!! This shit is bad !!!
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I would never touch that shit.
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dude, i was sooo close to purchasing like .250mg of it today
had like, 25-30 bucks worth of bitcoins left and out of straight boredom i was like meh, why not?
immediately realized wtf i was about to do and went with the best route ever, just purchasing some extra benzo's for a night of mdma or coke (10 k-pins, never tried them, always have done xanax's)
idiot purchase prevented.
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Yeah fuck MDPV.
That article is really old though. :-\
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wow i didnt realize just how fucked up that particular chem is...
this is so sad, these deaths are the direct result of these barbaric drug laws which prevent access to the more thoroughly researched drugs with a decent safety profile... by making amphetamine and cocaine illegal, stimulant users are forced to look for more available options, which are thousands of times more dangerous due to the lack of information about them and no regulation of their production. companies/individuals are able to market these dangerous concoctions because we cannot stop an individuals desire to use drugs, we can only provide the proper resources to obtain and use them in a safe, well informed manner.
the long term activation and inability of neurons to replenish their exhausted store of dopamine is without a doubt extremely stressful on the cells - and in many cases, similar situations produce substantial dopaminergic toxicity, potentially causing loss of the neurons
in the short term it seems to be causing all sorts of nasty effects, from insomnia to anxiety to hallucinations resembling those of schizophrenia which is very scary... but who knows in the long term, if those neurons are now more susceptible to stress in the future, we MAY see heavy users finding themselves dealing with all sorts of absolutely horrible dopaminergic neurodegenerative conditions which cause people to suffer immensely, including alzheimers or parkinsons... really nasty stuff all caused by stressing the dopamine neurons and losing their function or at the least an increased susceptibility to mental disorders like anxiety, depression and schizophrenia long term from chemical imbalances...
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wow i didnt realize just how fucked up that particular chem is...
this is so sad, these deaths are the direct result of these barbaric drug laws which prevent access to the more thoroughly researched drugs with a decent safety profile... by making amphetamine and cocaine illegal, stimulant users are forced to look for more available options, which are thousands of times more dangerous due to the lack of information about them and no regulation of their production. companies/individuals are able to market these dangerous concoctions because we cannot stop an individuals desire to use drugs, we can only provide the proper resources to obtain and use them in a safe, well informed manner.
the long term activation and inability of neurons to replenish their exhausted store of dopamine is without a doubt extremely stressful on the cells - and in many cases, similar situations produce substantial dopaminergic toxicity, potentially causing loss of the neurons
in the short term it seems to be causing all sorts of nasty effects, from insomnia to anxiety to hallucinations resembling those of schizophrenia which is very scary... but who knows in the long term, if those neurons are now more susceptible to stress in the future, we MAY see heavy users finding themselves dealing with all sorts of absolutely horrible dopaminergic neurodegenerative conditions which cause people to suffer immensely, including alzheimers or parkinsons... really nasty stuff all caused by stressing the dopamine neurons and losing their function or at the least an increased susceptibility to mental disorders like anxiety, depression and schizophrenia long term from chemical imbalances...
<SARCASM> The DEA takes great care to ensure our safety. I mean look at 1985 when the Scheduling of MDMA was being taken up in court. I mean so what if the DEA's Administrative Law Judge Francis Young ruled that it should be Schedule III so that researcher's could have access to it to actually study it's short and long term safety was thrown out and it was put on 'emergency scheduling (I)'.
I mean since when did the DEA's overseeing administrative law judge have any right to actually make rulings on the DEA's drug law's, the audacity of that judge is palpable !
Especially when the DEA can just go to congress with a multi-million dollar study of MDMA wherein the paper not once actually mentions Methylenedioxymethamphetamine (MDMA), but rather every reference to the drug being used was Methamphetamine (Meth !), which was somehow approved to be distributed to the lab where the study was being done for over two years 'by mistake' (side note back to reality, it's INCREDIBLY difficult for a lab to be given approval and then be shipped ANY narcotic, yet this lab managed to be approved every quarter and be consistently shipped the wrong illegal narcotic by the government ... huh !!! :o ??? ??? ) *DEEP BREATH*
It's also completely acceptable to show the public images of radiolabelled MRI's of MDMA and non-MDMA users and state that the 'dark spot's' were devoid of serotonin (which they should be !), or were Olsney's lesions (which they are not).
Fuck that German lab in 2002 for publishing a paper using fMRI to prove that in fact MDMA doesn't substantially reduce functional serotonin levels during intoxication and rebound back to normal serotonin levels within 24 hour's. Why the nerve of those scientists, they made the original US team have to REDACT that awesome study in 1985 where they were injected monkey's with meth, claiming it was MDMA. I mean it was the tax payer's dollars that paid for that study !" </SARCASM>
Ok in reality the DEA can suck my big fat hairy nut sack because they knowingly circumvent their own laws and policies, knowingly distribute already illegal (schedule I) narcotics to their labs (the very first word in the publication they used to present to Congress in this debacle they slanged the 'Rave Act' was METHAMPHETAMINE) and then blame 'ignorant and wreckless teenager's' for consuming 'untested' (such as MDPV)' compounds when they themselves won't even test the compounds but rather provide the lab's they use with already known dangerous narcotics whose names 'look' close enough to the drug name to any congressman (who aren't scientist's, to them Methamphetamine = Methylenedioxymethamphetamine just because the DEA told them so). Thanks a lot DEA for protecting the public's interest by locking up countless harmless people in prison and making the tax payer's pay over $100k a year to house/feed/clothe these dangerous drug addicted maniac's in prison. Sometimes I think the USA just likes building new prison's for fun.
Let's protect the public by NOT studying all the phenethylamine analogs until they've become mainstream and present their dangers to the drug crazed public, so that we can lock up these dangerous drug crazed felon's who've not been presented with any evidence by the body that claims to protect their interest's against harmful compounds (DEA) until long after it's too late to do so. Seems like a perfectly tangible and credible means of doing your job and making the tax payer's pay your salaries for doing such a wonderfully inept job at it.
FUCK, it makes me want to punch a kitten in the face !!! Except I love kittens and would never do that.
Ok rant over, don't do MDPV though, or you might end up sounding like me.
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awesome rant/speech/power statement pharmacopoeia,
whats creepy is i have been reading your SR vendor page the last 2 days, debating on making a purchase from you, then i see u post this.
whats cool is that your awesomness and kitty punching retraction line pushed me towards taking a shot with you
ill be PM'ing u shortly from my buyer name.
+1
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Why are people giving this PBS special so much attention? That kitchen sink metaphor makes no fucking sense at all. It's not how the brain works and just so you guys know reuptake inhibition is how MANY drugs work, MDMA being a popular one. This article also cites no sources whatsoever.
Your brain isn't going to fill up with dopamine until you explode and its very typical the DEA is funding this "study". "Scared of coke? Good! Now that we set the bar there why not keep going higher!"
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flicky, i think you missed the point that mdpv doesnt follow the standard re-uptake drug pharmacokinetics. instead of the common receptor binding profiles it seems to hold much more tightly and continues to effect the cells much longer than any other drugs of a similar mechanism
and mdma doesnt act to prevent re-uptake as you seem to be suggesting, its very different than the mechanism of strict re-uptake inhibitor like cocaine. in addition to re-uptake inhibition - it targets the intracellular monoamine vesicular transporter, which loads vesicles with monoamine neurotransmitters, including serotonin, dopamine, norep, and actually causes them to run in reverse. by dumping the contents of the vesicles into the cell, the intracellular concentration is increased which forces the monoamines across the cell membrane into the synapse
that is what they referred to as turning up the faucet... and the sink would be the synapse. (although mdpv may cause release through another mechanism cause i am not familiar with its exact pharmacology) and then the re-uptake transporter inhibition (like cocaine) was like plugging the drain.
i thought it was a fairly good analogy for people who do not have a knowledge of neuropharmacology. can you please explain why you disagree using the actual mechanisms you are referencing?
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awesome rant/speech/power statement pharmacopoeia,
whats creepy is i have been reading your SR vendor page the last 2 days, debating on making a purchase from you, then i see u post this.
whats cool is that your awesomness and kitty punching retraction line pushed me towards taking a shot with you
ill be PM'ing u shortly from my buyer name.
+1
Yeah, as a fellow scientist I have quite a bit of .... 'passion' on the topic. Needless to say it angers me to no end and I don't see how I live in any sort of democracy when those that purport freedom intentionally mislead their own public. It's more like a democrazy we live in ;P
Kinda creepy you're stalking my profile lol, but that's cool, just send me a PM with whatever it is you want to discuss, I am curious now ;)
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flicky, i think you missed the point that mdpv doesnt follow the standard re-uptake drug pharmacokinetics. instead of the common receptor binding profiles it seems to hold much more tightly and continues to effect the cells much longer than any other drugs of a similar mechanism
and mdma doesnt act to prevent re-uptake as you seem to be suggesting, its very different than the mechanism of strict re-uptake inhibitor like cocaine. in addition to re-uptake inhibition - it targets the intracellular monoamine vesicular transporter, which loads vesicles with monoamine neurotransmitters, including serotonin, dopamine, norep, and actually causes them to run in reverse. by dumping the contents of the vesicles into the cell, the intracellular concentration is increased which forces the monoamines across the cell membrane into the synapse
that is what they referred to as turning up the faucet... and the sink would be the synapse. (although mdpv may cause release through another mechanism cause i am not familiar with its exact pharmacology) and then the re-uptake transporter inhibition (like cocaine) was like plugging the drain.
i thought it was a fairly good analogy for people who do not have a knowledge of neuropharmacology. can you please explain why you disagree using the actual mechanisms you are referencing?
Ok you seem reasonable I'll just let you point out flaws in my logic because I may not understand.
My first problem is that this article is failing to back up any claims with any sort of research, but I'm going to go ahead and say MDPV does inhibit re-uptake and binds very tightly depleted your dopamine. Since your body is not recycling it wouldn't long term users develop symptoms very close to Parkinson's disease, although I've never heard of a single case of this. Also this "drain" analogy suggests that the dopamine ONLY fate is to be transported back into the axon. There are enzymes in the brain that will degrade dopamine and other monocyte derivatives that will also work to break them down. Your body isn't just going to have an "over flowing" sink for the rest of your life.
In addition, I'm aware MDMA causes more effects than just inhibiting re-uptake but the artcle is trying to make it seem like inhibiting re-uptake and causing excess release of a transmitter is very very bad. Well, thats just about what MDMA does and we prescribe plenty of medication to people for EVERYDAY use based on this theory. I'm of course talking about SSRI's like Prozac and Lexapro.
Also this entire stupid story is being told like its some horrible drama of a kid who took MDPV and then shot himself, he didn't even OD on it and the article mentions no statistics of people having OD's on this drug.
Also in the video the scientist is explaining the negative effects and he notes that he EXPECTS to see them in the mice. They haven't even run the study yet but the DEA is sure to let everyone know that these thing are very bad. I can seem to think of plenty of studies under the supervision of the DEA that turned out to be complete bullshit and the lack of findings and sources for this one makes me just want to chalk it up with the rest of that list.
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i see, you were basically talking about something completely different then i was trying to comment on.
you are definitely correct there are multiple more mechanisms than just pre-synaptic reuptake... although it is the main one, you even have the surrounding glial cells taking MA back up as well, but mdpv could potentially effect them as well. the analogy has to be oversimplified to try to get the biggest point across to people without any previous knowledge.
if you read my first post i was just commenting mainly on how the drug seems to "reportedly" effect individuals for days. i thought it was interesting, but i didnt give much time to actually reading the article or even meaning to comment on the articles legitimacy.
i was just conjecturing on my knowledge of other stimulants what could "possibly" be occurring. should mdpv actually be holding onto the receptor so tightly or even more crazy - if it is covalently linking to a transporter, it is fascinating to me because of how rare and unusual that is... most receptor binding is a reversible and forms an equilibrium, but it would be awesome if mdpv breaks those rules
and if it does then stress may likely be occurring to those neurons. but in the first post i used words like MAY and my entire point was not actually on the safety of mdpv but the lack of information actually makes it dangerous just because we dont know.
you seem to be commenting on how they are trying to scare people from drugs, like cocaine and i was saying cocaine and amphetamine are safer than mdpv because we know more about them (especially pharms with the production being regulated). i think its fucked people turn to using these "potentially" dangerous RCs because they cant obtain the better researched drugs.
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wow i didnt realize just how fucked up that particular chem is...
this is so sad, these deaths are the direct result of these barbaric drug laws which prevent access to the more thoroughly researched drugs with a decent safety profile... by making amphetamine and cocaine illegal, stimulant users are forced to look for more available options, which are thousands of times more dangerous due to the lack of information about them and no regulation of their production. companies/individuals are able to market these dangerous concoctions because we cannot stop an individuals desire to use drugs, we can only provide the proper resources to obtain and use them in a safe, well informed manner.
the long term activation and inability of neurons to replenish their exhausted store of dopamine is without a doubt extremely stressful on the cells - and in many cases, similar situations produce substantial dopaminergic toxicity, potentially causing loss of the neurons
in the short term it seems to be causing all sorts of nasty effects, from insomnia to anxiety to hallucinations resembling those of schizophrenia which is very scary... but who knows in the long term, if those neurons are now more susceptible to stress in the future, we MAY see heavy users finding themselves dealing with all sorts of absolutely horrible dopaminergic neurodegenerative conditions which cause people to suffer immensely, including alzheimers or parkinsons... really nasty stuff all caused by stressing the dopamine neurons and losing their function or at the least an increased susceptibility to mental disorders like anxiety, depression and schizophrenia long term from chemical imbalances...
<SARCASM> The DEA takes great care to ensure our safety. I mean look at 1985 when the Scheduling of MDMA was being taken up in court. I mean so what if the DEA's Administrative Law Judge Francis Young ruled that it should be Schedule III so that researcher's could have access to it to actually study it's short and long term safety was thrown out and it was put on 'emergency scheduling (I)'.
I mean since when did the DEA's overseeing administrative law judge have any right to actually make rulings on the DEA's drug law's, the audacity of that judge is palpable !
Especially when the DEA can just go to congress with a multi-million dollar study of MDMA wherein the paper not once actually mentions Methylenedioxymethamphetamine (MDMA), but rather every reference to the drug being used was Methamphetamine (Meth !), which was somehow approved to be distributed to the lab where the study was being done for over two years 'by mistake' (side note back to reality, it's INCREDIBLY difficult for a lab to be given approval and then be shipped ANY narcotic, yet this lab managed to be approved every quarter and be consistently shipped the wrong illegal narcotic by the government ... huh !!! :o ??? ??? ) *DEEP BREATH*
It's also completely acceptable to show the public images of radiolabelled MRI's of MDMA and non-MDMA users and state that the 'dark spot's' were devoid of serotonin (which they should be !), or were Olsney's lesions (which they are not).
Fuck that German lab in 2002 for publishing a paper using fMRI to prove that in fact MDMA doesn't substantially reduce functional serotonin levels during intoxication and rebound back to normal serotonin levels within 24 hour's. Why the nerve of those scientists, they made the original US team have to REDACT that awesome study in 1985 where they were injected monkey's with meth, claiming it was MDMA. I mean it was the tax payer's dollars that paid for that study !" </SARCASM>
Ok in reality the DEA can suck my big fat hairy nut sack because they knowingly circumvent their own laws and policies, knowingly distribute already illegal (schedule I) narcotics to their labs (the very first word in the publication they used to present to Congress in this debacle they slanged the 'Rave Act' was METHAMPHETAMINE) and then blame 'ignorant and wreckless teenager's' for consuming 'untested' (such as MDPV)' compounds when they themselves won't even test the compounds but rather provide the lab's they use with already known dangerous narcotics whose names 'look' close enough to the drug name to any congressman (who aren't scientist's, to them Methamphetamine = Methylenedioxymethamphetamine just because the DEA told them so). Thanks a lot DEA for protecting the public's interest by locking up countless harmless people in prison and making the tax payer's pay over $100k a year to house/feed/clothe these dangerous drug addicted maniac's in prison. Sometimes I think the USA just likes building new prison's for fun.
Let's protect the public by NOT studying all the phenethylamine analogs until they've become mainstream and present their dangers to the drug crazed public, so that we can lock up these dangerous drug crazed felon's who've not been presented with any evidence by the body that claims to protect their interest's against harmful compounds (DEA) until long after it's too late to do so. Seems like a perfectly tangible and credible means of doing your job and making the tax payer's pay your salaries for doing such a wonderfully inept job at it.
FUCK, it makes me want to punch a kitten in the face !!! Except I love kittens and would never do that.
Ok rant over, don't do MDPV though, or you might end up sounding like me.
Lol shit like this is why I like being on this forum. +1 mate.
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i see, you were basically talking about something completely different then i was trying to comment on.
you are definitely correct there are multiple more mechanisms than just pre-synaptic reuptake... although it is the main one, you even have the surrounding glial cells taking MA back up as well, but mdpv could potentially effect them as well. the analogy has to be oversimplified to try to get the biggest point across to people without any previous knowledge.
if you read my first post i was just commenting mainly on how the drug seems to "reportedly" effect individuals for days. i thought it was interesting, but i didnt give much time to actually reading the article or even meaning to comment on the articles legitimacy.
i was just conjecturing on my knowledge of other stimulants what could "possibly" be occurring. should mdpv actually be holding onto the receptor so tightly or even more crazy - if it is covalently linking to a transporter, it is fascinating to me because of how rare and unusual that is... most receptor binding is a reversible and forms an equilibrium, but it would be awesome if mdpv breaks those rules
and if it does then stress may likely be occurring to those neurons. but in the first post i used words like MAY and my entire point was not actually on the safety of mdpv but the lack of information actually makes it dangerous just because we dont know.
you seem to be commenting on how they are trying to scare people from drugs, like cocaine and i was saying cocaine and amphetamine are safer than mdpv because we know more about them (especially pharms with the production being regulated). i think its fucked people turn to using these "potentially" dangerous RCs because they cant obtain the better researched drugs.
I definitely agree with you in many areas of this post. I don't doubt for a second that MDPV could be dangerous I just think this article provides absolutely nothing to the scientific community and is only geared to scare people. I also don't understand how these types of scientists could be so uninspired when they conduct studies like these. As you pointed out, if this drug has unusual effects it would be fascinating and could further aid in our understanding of the human brain. All these people seem to care about is showing that it's bad.
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If the drug IS detrimental to the health of the user (as it appears to be) then the article's author is vindicated. I think the parallels with early MDMA scare campaigns is fair and warranted but ultimately moot. MDPV is dangerous.
Wouldn't it be nice if SR classed MDPV as harmful and pulled it from the marketplace? Then we could say to journo's "Harmful drugs on the blackmarket? Oh no, you'll have to go into a legal shop to get those!".
There seem to be a few deaths already, specifically related to MDPV toxicity (not dehydration or overheating, like MDMA reportage).
via wikipedia :
"In April 2011, two weeks after they went missing, two men in northwestern Pennsylvania, were found dead in a remote location on government land. The official cause of death of both men was hypothermia, but toxicology reports later confirmed that both Troy Johnson, 29, and Terry Sumrow, 28, had ingested MDPV shortly before their deaths. "It wasn't anything to kill them, but enough to get them messed up," the county coroner said. MDPV containers were found in their vehicle along with spoons, hypodermic syringes and marijuana paraphernalia. In April 2011, an Alton, Illinois, woman apparently died from an MDPV overdose.[38] In May 2011, The CDC reported a hospital emergency department (ED) visit after the use of "bath salts" in Michigan. One person was reported dead on arrival at the ED. Associates of the dead person reported that he had used bath salts. His toxicology results revealed high levels of MDPV in addition to marijuana and prescription drugs. The primary factor contributing to death was cited as MDPV toxicity after autopsy was performed.[39]"
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Out of interest do people in this thread understand what the cathinones are? I mean properly? Not being patronising here just quite curious.
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If the drug IS detrimental to the health of the user (as it appears to be) then the article's author is vindicated. I think the parallels with early MDMA scare campaigns is fair and warranted but ultimately moot. MDPV is dangerous.
Wouldn't it be nice if SR classed MDPV as harmful and pulled it from the marketplace? Then we could say to journo's "Harmful drugs on the blackmarket? Oh no, you'll have to go into a legal shop to get those!".
There seem to be a few deaths already, specifically related to MDPV toxicity (not dehydration or overheating, like MDMA reportage).
via wikipedia :
"In April 2011, two weeks after they went missing, two men in northwestern Pennsylvania, were found dead in a remote location on government land. The official cause of death of both men was hypothermia, but toxicology reports later confirmed that both Troy Johnson, 29, and Terry Sumrow, 28, had ingested MDPV shortly before their deaths. "It wasn't anything to kill them, but enough to get them messed up," the county coroner said. MDPV containers were found in their vehicle along with spoons, hypodermic syringes and marijuana paraphernalia. In April 2011, an Alton, Illinois, woman apparently died from an MDPV overdose.[38] In May 2011, The CDC reported a hospital emergency department (ED) visit after the use of "bath salts" in Michigan. One person was reported dead on arrival at the ED. Associates of the dead person reported that he had used bath salts. His toxicology results revealed high levels of MDPV in addition to marijuana and prescription drugs. The primary factor contributing to death was cited as MDPV toxicity after autopsy was performed.[39]"
I think the parallels here are extremely close. They are claiming that MDPV does exactly what MDMA does only with different neuron transmitters and receptor sites. The only difference is that they claim MDPV binds irreversibly which they have literally no evidence to support and as in my previous post I outlined why their explanation doesn't even make sense.
Also you're evidence to call MDPV dangerous cites far less deaths per year than MDMA. I'm also nearly positive that MDMA overdoses have been known to be due to nueortoxicity (few as they may be). Most harm reduction websites even mention that OVER hydration is more a problem than dehydration with MDMA. My main point is that MDPV is a very misunderstood drug in the scientific community and these jumping to conclusions here are very typical. This is what the DEA does I won't make any claims about the harms of MDPV or the benefits until I see some real research.
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Out of interest do people in this thread understand what the cathinones are? I mean properly? Not being patronising here just quite curious.
Not sure what you're getting at here. I am still a student (post undergrad I would rather not go into specifics) so I welcome criticism of my understand of neurology and pharmacology. What do you think I'm missing? Cathinones are just a class of drugs that derive from benzoethlyamines.
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Also you're evidence to call MDPV dangerous cites far less deaths per year than MDMA. I'm also nearly positive that MDMA overdoses have been known to be due to nueortoxicity (few as they may be). Most harm reduction websites even mention that OVER hydration is more a problem than dehydration with MDMA.
Considering the vastly different numbers we are talking between MDMA usage and MDPV usage I think the reported MDPV deaths are significant.
My main point is that MDPV is a very misunderstood drug in the scientific community and these jumping to conclusions here are very typical. This is what the DEA does I won't make any claims about the harms of MDPV or the benefits until I see some real research.
Here is a random sample of recently published papers.
Intoxication Delirium following Use of Synthetic Cathinone Derivatives.
Penders TM, Gestring RE, Vilensky DA.
"Conclusion: MDPV is likely the responsible agent in production of both toxic and excited delirium syndromes identified with the recreational use of "bath salts" in the United States over the past two years"
[Designer drug induced psychosis].
Fullajtar M, Ferencz C.
"Within 24 hours after the intoxication was over delirium set in. "
Psychoactive "bath salts" intoxication with methylenedioxypyrovalerone.
Ross EA, Reisfield GM, Watson MC, Chronister CW, Goldberger BA.
"Physical manifestations range from tachycardia, hypertension, arrhythmias, hyperthermia, sweating, rhabdomyolysis, and seizures to those as severe as stroke, cerebral edema, cardiorespiratory collapse, myocardial infarction, and death."
I could go on, but you're an academic so you know the drill.
I think we agree to proceed with caution, but if you offered me some at a party I'd politely decline!
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Out of interest do people in this thread understand what the cathinones are? I mean properly? Not being patronising here just quite curious.
Not sure what you're getting at here. I am still a student (post undergrad I would rather not go into specifics) so I welcome criticism of my understand of neurology and pharmacology. What do you think I'm missing? Cathinones are just a class of drugs that derive from benzoethlyamines.
Sorry I came across like a twat there lol, I just meant did anyone understand the difference between normal amphetamines and cathinones. Like what makes them two separate things. Just seeing if any chemists were here really. :)
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@TheBusiness
The funny thing is, I've never even tried MDPV or mephadrone. I don't even like stimulants other than normal amphetamine. I'm just being skeptical is all, I'll have to thumb through some more articles but due to how new it is I doubt I'll see any sort of biochemical evidence.
@Limitless, well chemically they are very similar the only difference is the secondary carbon near the benzene ring is double bonded to an Oxygen in Cathinones and isn't in amphetamine. I wish I could answer your question biochemically though but I can't. I have a long way to go in my field of research.
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As long as you smoke your mdpv, you'll be fine. :D
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Out of interest do people in this thread understand what the cathinones are? I mean properly? Not being patronising here just quite curious.
beta-ketonated (and often 2,5 dimethoxy) phenethylamines analogs .... or are you looking for a different description?
PS: You know i'm a chemist lim :P unless you just don't believe me lol, i've made many a post on chemistry :)