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Discussion => Philosophy, Economics and Justice => Topic started by: Rastaman Vibration on June 04, 2013, 08:12 pm

Title: Guns: part of the problem or part of the solution?
Post by: Rastaman Vibration on June 04, 2013, 08:12 pm
What do you think?

Do you own a firearm? Why or why not?

Thanks for sharing :)
Title: Re: Guns: part of the problem or part of the solution?
Post by: Rastaman Vibration on June 04, 2013, 08:25 pm
I'll start. Personally, I hate guns. But, yes, I own one. I hate them because they make it so easy to kill someone. All it takes is a squeeze of the trigger. It doesn't require any strength or skill to take the life of another human.

I own a gun for only one reason: protection. I live in a dangerous place where everyone around me is armed. I have no choice but to arm myself too, if I don't want to be a victim. It sucks, but that's just the reality of living in the ghetto.

Peace
Title: Re: Guns: part of the problem or part of the solution?
Post by: jameslink2 on June 04, 2013, 10:02 pm
They are part of the solution.

I own a LOT of guns.. Well, a lot may be understating it lol, When the safe is 70 square feet and running out of room, then I guess it is more of a shit load than a lot.

"God made man, but Samuel Colt made them equal," -- Colt Manufactuting

You are right that it makes it easy to kill someone, requiring nothing more than the simple pull of a trigger. However, it has allowed the weak to defeat the strong and a man to be free of government tyranny. (United Stated revolution)

Title: Re: Guns: part of the problem or part of the solution?
Post by: offbeatadam on June 04, 2013, 10:06 pm
Before I get into it, an easy summation is "Guns don't kill people, people kill people."

Now, that tends to get at least half of the arguing groups in an uproar, but my feelings on guns are based primarily on a different view of that very point. Guns exist, there is no way to uninvent them, and it was the natural progression of armoring that was going to happen. It's unavoidable... someone will make it better, and eventually guns will change into something else. I do not think guns are a problem in society, and I don't think they are a solution, either. They serve no purpose, other than the very purposes they were meant for to begin with: killing. Be it hunting or murder (I'm going to be blunt here, war is murder. Killing another person is murder. Thats it. There is no justifying it, even if they say your father stinks of elderberries.), this is the purpose for which they were made. They aren't hammers, they aren't cooking utensils. They serve one purpose and one purpose only, driving a projectile into a target. They are inanimate objects until they are activated by a secondary party. Someone must pull the trigger.

I own a gun. I own it because, regardless of my ideals, I would not be amused if I came to an encounter where a gun was necessary, and I went into a debate on gun control rather than protect myself or others. That's all there is to it. Ideals should not come between the basal need to protect. Beyond that, you can control guns, but as many like to point out (well, fox news likes to say if you have bitcoins you can buy anything, even rainbows...): you can make something entirely illegal, it just means someone who wants it will need to get it illegally. You don't protect anyone by saying "You can't do this." There is no system that circumvents the ability to obtain something, build something, or otherwise use something to the purpose that one would rather enact control. The ideal is wonderful - I hate the thought of violence, but as much as I'd like to believe the things I imagine in my head (wouldn't it be nice if Lennon survived? =/), they are not reality.

I am a firm believer in the fact that until intolerance and world without borders exists in a free society, we will never move past such basal forms of violence like violent muggings and territorial gang wars, religious persecution, and so on. That is my firm standing opinion. I subscribe a lot to some of what Ghandi preached in this effect, though I do hold a modified belief (as easily discerned from before) that there are some factors of the human condition, and the places that we have driven some of those humans through persecution/intolerance/cornering/limiting/abuse into. We are at fault, we have created whole communities of disparate caged humans... and it is easy to remember the addage of caged/cornered animals.

"The weak can never forgive. Forgiveness is the attribute of the strong."

"The ideally non-violent state will be an ordered anarchy. That State is the best governed which is governed the least."

"It is better to be violent, if there is violence in our hearts, than to put on the cloak of non-violence to cover impotence. Violence is any day preferable to impotence. There is hope for a violent man to become non-violent. There is no such hope for the impotent."

"You must not lose faith in humanity. Humanity is an ocean; if a few drops of the ocean are dirty, the ocean does not become dirty."

"An unjust law is itself a species of violence. Arrest for its breach is more so. Now the law of nonviolence says that violence should be resisted not by counter-violence but by nonviolence. This I do by breaking the law and by peacefully submitting to arrest and imprisonment."

(Each of these, was from Mahatma Ghandi.)
Title: Re: Guns: part of the problem or part of the solution?
Post by: hailsatan123123 on June 04, 2013, 11:28 pm
So if guns kill people, I guess pencils miss spell words, Cars drive drunk , And spoons make people fat.


 :)
Title: Re: Guns: part of the problem or part of the solution?
Post by: Rastaman Vibration on June 05, 2013, 04:25 am
Couldn't agree more, offbeatadam. Wouldn't want to be in a situation that requires a gun and not have one. It's not the gun's fault people are so fucked up. It's also not my fault my family and I need to be protected from fucked up people. This is just the reality we live in.  So I prefer to be a realist and join the arms race than to be an idealist and take the proverbial moral high road.

Now I'm gonna go smoke a big fattie ;)
Title: Re: Guns: part of the problem or part of the solution?
Post by: lady meth on June 05, 2013, 01:33 pm
i fukn luv guns. hell yeah! i gots my shottie and my 9 milli,  thats all.
Title: Re: Guns: part of the problem or part of the solution?
Post by: Toska on June 05, 2013, 02:04 pm
So if guns kill people, I guess pencils miss spell words, Cars drive drunk , And spoons make people fat.


 :)

+1 exactly. Guns just make it easier to kill people.

More people die from guns in America than other similar western countries that dont allow such easy access to guns so it seems a bit obvious.  There are hardly ever any mass shootings in Australia or Canada.
I'm not 100% against guns but think its insane that a person can have a weapon that can kill someone so easily without having any real training in how to use it safely.
Title: Re: Guns: part of the problem or part of the solution?
Post by: jackofspades on June 05, 2013, 04:13 pm
i have a rifle.
i like guns.
i dontr like when others have them ;D
Title: Re: Guns: part of the problem or part of the solution?
Post by: SOUTHPAW on June 05, 2013, 08:01 pm
Guns are a necessary evil to stop the unnecessary evil.  ;D
Title: Re: Guns: part of the problem or part of the solution?
Post by: offbeatadam on June 06, 2013, 07:00 am
So if guns kill people, I guess pencils miss spell words, Cars drive drunk , And spoons make people fat.


 :)

+1 exactly. Guns just make it easier to kill people.

More people die from guns in America than other similar western countries that dont allow such easy access to guns so it seems a bit obvious.  There are hardly ever any mass shootings in Australia or Canada.
I'm not 100% against guns but think its insane that a person can have a weapon that can kill someone so easily without having any real training in how to use it safely.

America is too easily associatable to the statistical significance of sales. American freedom and disposable incomes can also be statistically evident of the ability to purchase guns in the first place, and this in turn can also be demonstrated in our statistically higher ownership of all weapons.

I hate statistics for that reason. Worldwide, America can top nearly (China has us beat on pollution!) any negative-looking statistic. To the rest of the world we are all cowboys. Unfortunately, its true.

However, most of the time that statistic is not associated with a more important statistic, on how many of the gun related deaths were with guns registered to the individual who committed the crime (or reigstered at all). We have a statistically significant margin of gun-related murders, but many of them (I'm sorry, I'm a little tired and I don't have the citation to prove this right now, but I'll get it tomorrow if its wanted) are committed with illegal weapons. This may not seem all that different, but ultimately in accordance with my prior post, we are a society that breeds caged & cornered animals. This, I think is the truly important thing about America.

There was a recent (silly) debate amongst a government in some state, I forget which, may have been MInnesota but it doesn't matter. Officials were being questioned about declining literacy rates amongst third-year elementary students. The governor or mayor claimed this was due to mothers working more than before, and therefore the kids are not being educated properly. Of course it was extremely fast for (nearly anyone) to note that America was one of the LATEST countries to experience this change, and in places like Finland literacy rates have gone UP as more families have two working parents.

As a country we ignore and have too much intolerance to too many things. I suffered from it as many American kids have. My needs were never met appropriately in school, and ultimately my overall "performance" was repeatedly rated far below average, even though every one of my teachers made it a point to note how smart I was. It wasn't until my senior year that a doctor finally slapped everyone around and educated them on their failures. This country is a mess, we exemplify superiority and have little regard for perceived weakness or being different. To be honest, I'm surprised that as of yet I haven't seen kids I grew up with on the news as either on the giving or receiving end of gun violence, though that doesn't include the kids that WERE in the news.

You can kill with many things in this world. The power to do so, however, is entirely in the person executing the action. It only requires thinking, and effort, be it by pulling a trigger, hitting with a hammer, stabbing with a knife, or drowning in a pool. The person doing ANY ONE OF THESE THINGS, would do ANY OF THE OTHERS without the given object it was done with. Guns would have had nothing to do with it. They'd kill with a feather if it was the only utensil available. And, from as far as my research has gone, there hasn't been any groundbreaking results linking any particular incident WITH guns being the true influence behind the incident.

It may seem like a silly rhetorical question simply to justify having guns, but frankly I'd love a world without weapons at all. Won't ever happen though, and if it did exist we'd just be enslaved by another race that had weapons. It's a silly justification, but I'd rather not be a slave to E.T. when we meet him.

That being said, I would really love to see statistical evidence that in gun violence, guns were the driving factor in the violence, and not something else. A gun is a tool, and unless someone can actually tell me that a person who killed with a gun did not use the gun because of its opportunity to accomplish the goal of killing someone, and that in the same circumstance given a knife instead of a gun they'd have not killed someone, I will happily yield that gun manufacturing should be halted the world over.

Until then, and until we learn to teach our kids rather than fail them, I'm going to risk the temptation and protect myself when the Zombie revolution begins.
Title: Re: Guns: part of the problem or part of the solution?
Post by: jnemonic on June 24, 2013, 02:52 am
I dont own any guns right now, but i have airsoft. :P

But where i live, if the police knew you had airsoft, you would be thrown in jail for a firearms offence.

Crazy right? You see how fucked up australia is? A plastic toy gun that shoots pellets is considered a firearm here?

They dont like how real they look...but your allowed to go buy a real gun, yep a REAL one, that is considered normal... ???



Title: Re: Guns: part of the problem or part of the solution?
Post by: kmfkewm on June 24, 2013, 03:08 am
According to Democrats, guns are part of the problem and the solution to the problem is sending government agents with guns to confiscate them.
Title: Re: Guns: part of the problem or part of the solution?
Post by: Nemesis0914 on July 28, 2013, 01:23 am
I'll start. Personally, I hate guns. But, yes, I own one. I hate them because they make it so easy to kill someone. All it takes is a squeeze of the trigger. It doesn't require any strength or skill to take the life of another human.

I own a gun for only one reason: protection. I live in a dangerous place where everyone around me is armed. I have no choice but to arm myself too, if I don't want to be a victim. It sucks, but that's just the reality of living in the ghetto.

Peace
You own a gun for 'protection' huh? so what about the next guy, does he have right to 'protect' himself to. FUCK GUNS and FUCK all people who use them whether they are soldiers, freedom fighters, terrorists, murderers or whoever.  Ill tell you a truth that you probably wont like to hear. You own a gun because your scared and so is your enemy, But thats just the way it is.
Title: Re: Guns: part of the problem or part of the solution?
Post by: evetSFree on July 28, 2013, 04:05 am
  As much as i hate guns this is how i see it.   In my country a few years ago the government took the guns from us saying it was for the safety of the people and so on.   At that time we had a couple of people who where not in there right minds and went on rampages killing people.   So that got the ball rolling and within a couple of months our guns where gone "crushed".   
   Now a few years down the track we are now seeing more people killed by guns than ever ,the black market in guns is huge AND something happened that did NOT happen before.  Home invasion.  The idea was ok that person wont have a gun anymore at his house so we will kick in his front door walk through and take whatever we want .  The media had to stop reporting it because it gave others the idea to do it. So now we have home invasions as one of the biggest crimes because we do not have the right to protrct ourselves.

  What ever you do America DO NOT let them take your guns.   For its the only thing you have left keeping you as free as you are.
Title: Re: Guns: part of the problem or part of the solution?
Post by: Mr. Fluffles Schrodinger on July 28, 2013, 06:58 am
  As much as i hate guns this is how i see it.... 

+1 for lending opinion rl experience and not just ideals.

In a perfect world we could live without guns; I know I would.
But wicked men shall wax worse and worse...
Title: Re: Guns: part of the problem or part of the solution?
Post by: GlenRunciter on July 28, 2013, 09:11 am
Just my two cents, for what it's worth...

1.  In America, guns aren't going anywhere, they are too entrenched in our society.
2.  I believe you have the right to protect your family by keeping a gun in the home.
3.  With technology these days, it should be so easy to electronically tag a gun in order to track it.  It's ridiculous that serial numbers can be filed off guns, making them "untraceable."
4.  You brandish a gun in public willy-nilly or use a gun in committing a crime you pay deep and heavy...mandatory minimums for gun crimes, not drug crimes
5.  Guns should only be sold by heavily regulated, licensed gun dealers...with a set allotment of business licenses based on population.  No guns sold at Wal-Mart, or other chain stores. No more "gun shows."   Guns are way too easy to procure in America by any Tom, Dick, or Harry who thinks they need one.
6.  Rigorous background checks, waiting periods, competency requirements, classroom gun safety training, etc. should be required of any gun owner.  If forklift drivers need to pass certain requirements to do their job, there needs to be a basic set of guidelines for gun-owners.
7. Heavily tax gun manufacturers (who basically run and fund the NRA) and reinstate the ability to sue gun manufacturers for wrongful deaths.  Those companies and their useful idiots in the NRA profit so much thru scare-mongering tactics that induce idiots to buy more guns....(race war!!! Obama will take your guns!!!!  stand your ground!!!!)     Like with cigarettes, ban ads that make owning guns look "cool" or that appeal directly to children. 

Just some ideas off the top of my head.......bottom line, guns are way too easy to procure in America, it's time to make it a little tougher.  At least as tough as getting a fishing license or food handler's permit for fuck's sake.    :P   
Title: Re: Guns: part of the problem or part of the solution?
Post by: TMan99 on July 28, 2013, 09:46 am
Just my two cents, for what it's worth...

1.  In America, guns aren't going anywhere, they are too entrenched in our society.
2.  I believe you have the right to protect your family by keeping a gun in the home.
3.  With technology these days, it should be so easy to electronically tag a gun in order to track it.  It's ridiculous that serial numbers can be filed off guns, making them "untraceable."
4.  You brandish a gun in public willy-nilly or use a gun in committing a crime you pay deep and heavy...mandatory minimums for gun crimes, not drug crimes
5.  Guns should only be sold by heavily regulated, licensed gun dealers...with a set allotment of business licenses based on population.  No guns sold at Wal-Mart, or other chain stores. No more "gun shows."   Guns are way too easy to procure in America by any Tom, Dick, or Harry who thinks they need one.
6.  Rigorous background checks, waiting periods, competency requirements, classroom gun safety training, etc. should be required of any gun owner.  If forklift drivers need to pass certain requirements to do their job, there needs to be a basic set of guidelines for gun-owners.
7. Heavily tax gun manufacturers (who basically run and fund the NRA) and reinstate the ability to sue gun manufacturers for wrongful deaths.  Those companies and their useful idiots in the NRA profit so much thru scare-mongering tactics that induce idiots to buy more guns....(race war!!! Obama will take your guns!!!!  stand your ground!!!!)     Like with cigarettes, ban ads that make owning guns look "cool" or that appeal directly to children. 

Just some ideas off the top of my head.......bottom line, guns are way too easy to procure in America, it's time to make it a little tougher.  At least as tough as getting a fishing license or food handler's permit for fuck's sake.    :P
I disagree and believe people should be able to use guns as they wish. Especially with the taxing part... why would you tax a party attempting to offer self defense? It would just ramp up the price for the buyer and indirectly be a tax on the buyer, not the companies.

Also, waiting periods? What if someone feels like they are being stocked, I have seen it before. Where someone feels they are getting stocked and call the police. Then a week later they are found dead. Self protection is not something you can afford to wait for and you need it right when you need it/want it.

I also do not believe the goverment should not be able to track who has guns and who does not, but that is just in the case if/when the goverment want complete power they go to everyones house with guns and take them away with force.

Guns should not be regulated very much.
Title: Re: Guns: part of the problem or part of the solution?
Post by: isallmememe on July 28, 2013, 09:55 am
if you were a caveman you'd have stones. you'd have them cause other cavemen had stones and some might want to use them against you. its only natural and right that you'd need to be able to defend yourself if or when it happened.

what's the difference?
Title: Re: Guns: part of the problem or part of the solution?
Post by: Nemesis0914 on July 28, 2013, 12:35 pm
if you were a caveman you'd have stones. you'd have them cause other cavemen had stones and some might want to use them against you. its only natural and right that you'd need to be able to defend yourself if or when it happened.

what's the difference?
The difference is that we are tens of thousands of years more advanced and civilized than cavemen. lol. We are not savages anymore, and we dont use stones anymore lol. We have machines that if put in the wrong hands can massacre tens if not hundreds of people. A weapon that can turn any one individual into a major threat, a weapon that cripples and disables.  A weapon for the sole purpose to kill.  How can you live in a society and feel safe knowing that even school teachers carry guns, its bewildering?
 
Title: Re: Guns: part of the problem or part of the solution?
Post by: isallmememe on July 28, 2013, 03:23 pm

The difference is that we are tens of thousands of years more advanced and civilized than cavemen. lol. We are not savages anymore, and we dont use stones anymore lol. We have machines that if put in the wrong hands can massacre tens if not hundreds of people. A weapon that can turn any one individual into a major threat, a weapon that cripples and disables.  A weapon for the sole purpose to kill.  How can you live in a society and feel safe knowing that even school teachers carry guns, its bewildering?

that's very naive, we're no different, we just like to think we are.

you can still pick up a stone and smash someones head in with it if you wanted, there's nothing to stop you. we still have stones.

a stone in a particular persons hand turns them into a major threat if they are advancing on you with the stone.

it could cripple or disable you easily

the stones sole purpose in that situation would be to kill

if i had kids and lived in the US, i would hope to god that my child's teacher was packing. just in case.

like they say, better to have and not need than need and not have. gun control only unarms the law abiding. the criminals will be the only ones with the guns. well the cops will have them, but that neither here nor there coz they won't fucking be there anyway.
Title: Re: Guns: part of the problem or part of the solution?
Post by: hotcrossbuns on July 28, 2013, 08:43 pm
Theres only one thing that scares me more than guns, and that's Americans.
Title: Re: Guns: part of the problem or part of the solution?
Post by: isallmememe on July 28, 2013, 09:03 pm
its your fear of guns that enables people to use them so effectively against you.
Title: Re: Guns: part of the problem or part of the solution?
Post by: cojack on July 28, 2013, 11:26 pm
if you were a caveman you'd have stones. you'd have them cause other cavemen had stones and some might want to use them against you. its only natural and right that you'd need to be able to defend yourself if or when it happened.

what's the difference?
The difference is that we are tens of thousands of years more advanced and civilized than cavemen. lol. We are not savages anymore, and we dont use stones anymore lol. We have machines that if put in the wrong hands can massacre tens if not hundreds of people. A weapon that can turn any one individual into a major threat, a weapon that cripples and disables.  A weapon for the sole purpose to kill.  How can you live in a society and feel safe knowing that even school teachers carry guns, its bewildering?
Pardon my freedom sir. How threatening is a person with a gun if say 20% of the populous carried guns. Whoever thinks they would get away with a mass shooting would be sorely mistaken and justifiably killed if they initiated force. 99% of people are good people that don't initiate force. It would be much better to have the majority of guns in the hands of good people to offset criminals that are going to have them anyway. Concealed Carry and Open Carry citizens go to range somewhere on the order of 10-15 times more often than police officers so they are better shots than the costumed fellas. Also, I really wished the teachers in Newtown had guns. Its so sad that they could only just hide and wait to die. If just one person had a gun they might have been able to save dozens of lives or at the very least changed the odds. Don't most mass shootings happen in gun free zones anyway?!
Title: Re: Guns: part of the problem or part of the solution?
Post by: mrguymann on July 29, 2013, 02:02 am
I feel safer without a gun- youre more likely to hurt yourself or loved ones than you are  to use it in a  act odf self defense. Ive been stabbed a few times, but I still rather  go toe to toe to protect myself n others. Sad thing is no matter how much of a badass you may be , all it takes is some  12 yr old with a gun  to take you out. Not even Bruce Lee had the ability to stop a bullet.

The comparison on  how cops treat you in a state where u can carry and conseal , vs how the California cops treat you  ( CA has some  very restrictive gun laws ) is such a difference- CA cop scream in his bullhorn for you to lay on the ground, guns drawn, frisked and cuff you before they even figure out if you  done something wrong, ur a scumbag criminal  at 1st sight , but in AZ ythey call you sir and ask if you need assistance   or if they can help- It blew me away 1st time I saw it.
Title: Re: Guns: part of the problem or part of the solution?
Post by: valakki on August 02, 2013, 03:43 pm
both. there is no real answer to this question. guns are killing machines but killing is natural. a fish kills the bug when it swallows it. is it evil? no. same rules apply to us and guns.
Title: Re: Guns: part of the problem or part of the solution?
Post by: rkk1993 on August 02, 2013, 04:33 pm
I believe guns should be allowed. I own multiple firearms. I am only 20 but I have two shotguns both hunting. An ar-15 a m1a1 or the semi auto version of a m14 which I do match shooting with an m1grand which I won the chance to buy through my compitition shooting and a couple other guns that are not as important.

But I love guns I go shooting almost every weekend and load my own ammunition for matches. I own around 2000 rounds of ammunition.

That being said I don't think guns are for everyone. I think it is almost to easy to buy a gun but I do think it should be a right for youto own it
Title: Re: Guns: part of the problem or part of the solution?
Post by: valakki on August 02, 2013, 07:12 pm
I believe guns should be allowed. I own multiple firearms. I am only 20 but I have two shotguns both hunting. An ar-15 a m1a1 or the semi auto version of a m14 which I do match shooting with an m1grand which I won the chance to buy through my compitition shooting and a couple other guns that are not as important.

But I love guns I go shooting almost every weekend and load my own ammunition for matches. I own around 2000 rounds of ammunition.

That being said I don't think guns are for everyone. I think it is almost to easy to buy a gun but I do think it should be a right for youto own it

nice. over here you cant even  buy mace to spray mofos in the face.
s
Title: Re: Guns: part of the problem or part of the solution?
Post by: metacontxt on August 02, 2013, 09:35 pm
"all it takes is some  12 yr old with a gun  to take you out. Not even Bruce Lee had the ability to stop a bullet."

Guns are a lot more deadly in movies than they are in real life. You know that whole "why on earth would anyone need more than 6 bullets to deal with an aggressor?????" line? Surely one would be enough, right? This seems logical if you've seen guns in action only in movies and on TV.

In the real world you can empty your clip into someone and they still keep coming. No, you won't have time to reload - they'll be well and truly onto you by then. Particularly if they're methheads. PCP's the worst. Sure, a single shot can drop an assailant - particularly so if you know how to handle your gun. Practice helps. Then again, sharp marksmanship's all well and good down at the range. But head shots aren't so easy when you're in a situation so dangerous that you've decided to shoot to kill someone because you think they're going to kill you. Even for skilled marksmen. Torsos are complicated, too - so easy to inflict a bunch of flesh wounds. Even if you hit a vital organ there's a good chance they'll probably be mobile enough to keep advancing on you. They might start to flag when the ambulance arrives. How are you doing at that point? And that bullshit about aiming for knees? Yeah, that's great but you don't want to miss or graze. Aiming takes time. I don't think your assailant will be too receptive to a request from you to pause so you can stop aiming at his skinny legs and aim at something easier to hit.

Oh, and what if there are multiple assailants? You've emptied your magazine on one methhead who isn't showing much sign of slowing down. That's right, Nancy Pelosi, no one needs 30 rounds! Particularly if you've got 24hr Secret Service protection. 

Far from being totally unnecessary, high capacity magazines are vital if you are being attacked by several assailants.

Then, of course, guns ain't guns. Handguns are useful for confined spaces where a longarm would be unwieldy, ambushing predators at close range etc. Shotguns are good for defence at close range, easy to aim, loads of stopping power.  Rifles are good for perimetre defence, when you have a chance to aim carefully. And the most powerful guns are not always the best. A bullet shot from a high velocity rifle will go straight through an assailant, which is fine if you've hit them square between the eyes. But it could also cause a nice clean flesh wound somewhere else which isn't going to slow them down much at all.  Again, think methhead.

Ammo, too...the problem I mentioned above about emptying a magazine into someone yet they keep coming...three words. Hollow point bullets. Seriously, if some stranger's in your house, you've confronted them with a gun, told them to fuck off and instead of them fucking off ASAP (in which case you should let them leave), they start coming at you....then that's a you or them moment and you really need to lay that motherfucker down because he's probably going to do something very nasty to you. That's where hollow point bullets come in handy. Messy but effective. One in the torso will blow out their back, one in the head will blow it off. Game over.

Final thought. A stranger's in your house who shouldn't be. You have established they have not innocently stumbled into the wrong door after a night at the bar. They're on your property to cause you and/or your family harm. Do you give them the benefit of the doubt; reason that they're probably there to steal your Blu-Ray player and not to harm you and/or your family? That's most likely, but the consequences of being unlucky are horrendous. Or do you attribute the worst motivations to the intruder because you aren't willing to run the small risk that he isn't there just to steal your iPad.

I don't have to think about that much. Not willing to take the risk. If he won't leave after being warned, I'll do my utmost to make sure he leaves on a stretcher - covered with a blanket if necessary.

Title: Re: Guns: part of the problem or part of the solution?
Post by: Cork1Screw on August 03, 2013, 01:51 am
if you were a caveman you'd have stones. you'd have them cause other cavemen had stones and some might want to use them against you. its only natural and right that you'd need to be able to defend yourself if or when it happened.

what's the difference?
The difference is that we are tens of thousands of years more advanced and civilized than cavemen. lol. We are not savages anymore, and we dont use stones anymore lol. We have machines that if put in the wrong hands can massacre tens if not hundreds of people. A weapon that can turn any one individual into a major threat, a weapon that cripples and disables.  A weapon for the sole purpose to kill.  How can you live in a society and feel safe knowing that even school teachers carry guns, its bewildering?

Alright, you know what, you're right. Instead, let's all pick the most popular guy and then let him pick who he wants to be his friends and have them swear to always put his life as their priority. Then, let's also decide to let that most popular guy give only him and all his friends the weapons.

No one else needs them though of course, because they are dangerous and can massacre people. As long as the government has them though, but not the citizens, then we can all finally rest easy.

(/sarcasm)
Title: Re: Guns: part of the problem or part of the solution?
Post by: semi_feral_human on August 03, 2013, 07:03 am
I own a rifle, and am considering a shotgun. I took up hunting and shooting as an adult, and find both immensely enjoyable.

Title: Re: Guns: part of the problem or part of the solution?
Post by: Turkey for Breakfast on August 05, 2013, 02:01 am
I own a gun. Where I grew up the culture was that if you owned a gun you were a gang member. Later in life I moved to an area where gun ownership was more common and talked about. Responsible gun ownership is not something to be feared. Reasonable means of limiting irresponsible people from owning guns should not be opposed.
Title: Re: Guns: part of the problem or part of the solution?
Post by: inigo on August 05, 2013, 02:30 am
I wish it was as normal and accepted for people to wear a gun on their hip now as it was back in medieval days for people to wear a sword.

Guns are like condoms, better to have one and not need it than to need one and not have it.
Title: Re: Guns: part of the problem or part of the solution?
Post by: evetSFree on August 05, 2013, 04:00 am
I wish it was as normal and accepted for people to wear a gun on their hip now as it was back in medieval days for people to wear a sword.

Guns are like condoms, better to have one and not need it than to need one and not have it.

Hey Inigo how is it that you only have 134 posts yet you are a Global Moderator and a first mate ?
Title: Re: Guns: part of the problem or part of the solution?
Post by: inigo on August 05, 2013, 04:35 am
I wish it was as normal and accepted for people to wear a gun on their hip now as it was back in medieval days for people to wear a sword.

Guns are like condoms, better to have one and not need it than to need one and not have it.

Hey Inigo how is it that you only have 134 posts yet you are a Global Moderator and a first mate ?

Why do I get asked this so much? Is it so shocking that I help run this place?  ??? I didn't make this account until I started working here. The first mate isn't a real position, but on this metaphorical pirate ship of a website, I am the First Mate. (consider the word "am" bold italicized and underlined) Now stop asking questions and "Respect my authoritah!"  :P
Title: Re: Guns: part of the problem or part of the solution?
Post by: semi_feral_human on August 05, 2013, 04:45 am
I own a gun. Where I grew up the culture was that if you owned a gun you were a gang member. Later in life I moved to an area where gun ownership was more common and talked about.
Until a few years ago I ignorantly thought the only people who had guns were cops, criminals and rednecks. The media can make the uninformed believe anything. ( I also in a politically correct but closed-minded way found hunting barbaric but store bought meat acceptable, but that's a whole different kind of brainwashing.)
I wish it was as normal and accepted for people to wear a gun on their hip now as it was back in medieval days for people to wear a sword.
It's legal to open carry in a lot of US states, but as you say just not normal or accepted, at least not in the sorts of sketchy areas it's necessary. Just an invitation to police harassment by cops who don't know the law or do and don't care. If you're in a place where it's legal there are usually clubs where people meet up at restaurants with their (holstered lol) guns for the purpose of making it less unusual and alarming, if activism is your kind of thing.
Title: Re: Guns: part of the problem or part of the solution?
Post by: cojack on August 05, 2013, 03:29 pm
I gotta say, I've carried a concealed firearm legally for years. I don't even think about it anymore. It's stays in my messenger bag in a handy pocket and is never touched unless I'm at the range. I don't get where these statistics about being more likely to shoot a loved one or yourself than a criminal. It doesn't seem logical or true at all! Unless you include suicides, but why would you do that? Oh right, to convince people that guns are dangerous even in the hands of good people. It has to be total bullshit. It becomes much bullshittier when you hear about women getting assaulted and you think "if only she had a gun she could have saved herself". You would have reduced crime in the following ways: 1. One confirmed rapist dead. Never will he commit a crime again. 2. The newspaper will read something like this "female college student attacked, rapist unidentified due to cavernous hole in face left by wheel gun" will this affect the amount of sexual assaults on women in the area? Absolutely! I never understood why women aren't gun activists. Its the great equalizer. Guns allow good people to protect themselves and others against violence from aggressors with superior physical strength.  When I hear men say, "I don't need a gun, I can protect myself with my fists", I hear "I don't care about the weak, only the strong deserve to be able to defend themselves". An armed society is a polite society in my opinion.
Title: Re: Guns: part of the problem or part of the solution?
Post by: wasta on August 05, 2013, 09:32 pm
Guns are to easy to make. I like the scorpio"" from Croatia. No number etc. Every gun that is sold has to shoot several bullits. The marks on the bullit end up in a database so every bullet can be traced to the gun where the bullet came from. Not the bullets from a scorpio. It's made from pipes, bolts and knots, and only for self-defence. Accurate at 15 till 25 meter max. The barrel is hard to make, every other part is easy. At the Khaiberpass there are a lot homemade ak47 for sale. Low quality Iron. Always breaks down when you need your gun the most.