Silk Road forums

Discussion => Silk Road discussion => Topic started by: apollonaught on September 09, 2012, 04:35 am

Title: Early Finalization
Post by: apollonaught on September 09, 2012, 04:35 am
Being a newbie to SR, but well seasoned in good business sense and acumen, I was asked to finalize an order before shipment due to being a newbie.

As I understand it, the main risk vendors take is having to wait 18 days if the receiver is lazy and doesn't quickly finalize upon receipt? While the risk I take in finalizing before shipment is total loss.

Doesn't seem like a fair risk/reward, what's a noob to do?
Title: Re: Early Finalization
Post by: Ensine99 on September 09, 2012, 06:18 am
Being a newbie to SR, but well seasoned in good business sense and acumen, I was asked to finalize an order before shipment due to being a newbie.

As I understand it, the main risk vendors take is having to wait 18 days if the receiver is lazy and doesn't quickly finalize upon receipt? While the risk I take in finalizing before shipment is total loss.

Doesn't seem like a fair risk/reward, what's a noob to do?
your first few (~5) orders should be small <50$ and placed with reputable vendors, perferably on goods that are less likely to get seized, ie domestic products or things that are very hard for customs to find (DOB, LSD, 25c, 25i - basically anything that comes on a blotter)
I know it kinda sucks but the number of scammers here just keeps rising so vendors need a way to protect themselves from both negative comments and losing money.
Title: Re: Early Finalization
Post by: Shroomeister on September 09, 2012, 07:16 am
I never ask for FE, but I also havent been burned yet at a vendor.


there is a bit more too it. there is an angle that buyers play with new accounts to attempt to get a refund from SR even after their items arrive. this is the scare some vendors have with new people.

My rule has always been if you make me wait 17 days from Auto Finalize, I will not deal with you again. oh yeah..and I have a photographic memory :)

If you are a new new buyer...not just a new accnt, then just make some small purchases or some vendors don't even care if you buy digital goods to get your stats up. Ebooks etc.
Title: Re: Early Finalization
Post by: apollonaught on September 09, 2012, 07:35 am
Thanks for the insight.

Does SR have feedback implementation exclusively for vendors to leave about buyers?
Or is one's history simply the number of transactions completed?
Title: Re: Early Finalization
Post by: polygamuz on September 09, 2012, 07:56 am
Rarely, customers have very specific requests or want exceptional bargains. I'll sometimes bend for them provided that they FE. I never require FE and don't hate on vendors that do.
Title: Re: Early Finalization
Post by: anex45 on September 09, 2012, 09:15 am
Please be careful FEing...I'm new too (just completed my first transaction!) and I read all the information I could find in these forums and it seems like most of the scams happen with people FEing early. Just be really cautious and preferably go for smaller amounts if you're being asked to FE. Also shop around too because you can find many vendors who don't mind taking on new buyers and won't ask them to FE.
Title: Re: Early Finalization
Post by: Shroomeister on September 09, 2012, 12:47 pm
Thanks for the insight.

Does SR have feedback implementation exclusively for vendors to leave about buyers?
Or is one's history simply the number of transactions completed?

Buyers judge a transaction with a vendor via a 5/5 scale and a feedback blurb. FYI anything less then a 5/5 (e.g. 4/5) hurts a vendors ranks. always talk with a vendor privately if you feel the transaction was less then a 5/5 and see if you can work something out, before giving  less then the 5/5.

Vendors get you see the following as they begin to engage in a transac with a customer:

How many transactions the buyer has completed.
How long they have been a member.
Grand total $ amount spent on SR.
% of transactions that the buyer left to Auto Finalize.

...based on that a vendor judges you before anything else.

If you are logged into SR and click "account" at the top of your screen and then look to the "right side" of your screen you can see YOUR OWN stats at anytime.

PS - read this if you haven't
http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/wiki/index.php/Main_Page
Title: Re: Early Finalization
Post by: wretched on September 09, 2012, 07:50 pm
Being a newbie to SR, but well seasoned in good business sense and acumen, I was asked to finalize an order before shipment due to being a newbie.

As I understand it, the main risk vendors take is having to wait 18 days if the receiver is lazy and doesn't quickly finalize upon receipt? While the risk I take in finalizing before shipment is total loss.

Doesn't seem like a fair risk/reward, what's a noob to do?

I have posted about this quite a few times, and my opinion hasn't changed, nor will it for the foreseeable future. I am not going to ramble the way I normally do calling the vendors who require FE for anyone the irresponsible assholes that have bread the race of scammers this road has encountered.....starting to ramble, so remember this, you are right to question their motives for FE requirements, and if they don't want your money, there are others who DO! you are among friends if you don't want to piss your money away on the hope of a complete stranger to fulfill a promise that you have no way to hold him accountable for failing.

I tried reading my post just now, and it doesn't make sense the way I had intended ity. Sorry bout that, I am tripping nutsack right now and need to move along.

dont FE
Title: Re: Early Finalization
Post by: knicknack on September 09, 2012, 08:12 pm
Thanks for the insight.

Does SR have feedback implementation exclusively for vendors to leave about buyers?
Or is one's history simply the number of transactions completed?

Yes and we talk about buyers all the time.
It's very easy for someone to create a new account buy a product and say it didn't arrive.
I don't think it happens much, I haven't experienced it which is why I don't require FE but if it does my take on it will change.
If a seller has a 99 or 100 after their name and a few months few hundred sales there's more risk to the vendor than to the buyer.
Even so, as I said, I really haven't had many problems.
Most people here, buyers and vendors alike are the coolest 8)
Title: Re: Early Finalization
Post by: wretched on September 09, 2012, 08:25 pm
knickknack, the risk for a vendor doing business with a new buyer is he MIGHT win a resolution for a bit of weed or a ten strip, but you will likely settle for a shared loss which means a vendor can recoup at least a large portion of the cost that was paid by them for the item that was stolen, lost, whatever.

the ramifications of FE for the buyer can be summarized by tony76(100) $200 something thousand taken from people who wanted to expand their minds with ZERO recoup of their money, PERIOD.

sure the (100) isn't by his nym anymore, but that doesn't make the loss suffered by all those people any less, does it.

If as a vendor, you don't have enough margin worked into your business plan to cover the occasional write off, then you need to look at lowering your input costs, streamlining your operation, or (if nothing else can help) raise your prices (fractionally) to spread the risk over the entire business venture.

You could quantify it even my marking an "insurance" account in your ledger. put a small % of each sale into the insurance account, and if you run across a lost sale by either scam or loss, you move that cost into the balance sheet of current expenditures to cover it. IF you build a surplus into this account in your ledger, you can apply it to a "sale" for loyal customers or fractionally reduce your price across the board, which would result in the same margins,  so there is no downside. And you can do ALL this without becoming part of the group who IS responsible for the rise of those like Tony76.

While Tony76 is an evil fuckwad, he was brought into existence by honest vendors who didn't want to put forth the effort to build a provable business model where each party is protected and held accountable for their actions.

I blame the common vendor with an FE policy for Tony76 more than I blame the man, and trust me I blame that man PLENTY!
Title: Re: Early Finalization
Post by: wretched on September 09, 2012, 08:29 pm
I know I promised I wouldn't ramle earlier, but fuck, I just couldn't help it! :)
Title: Re: Early Finalization
Post by: Ensine99 on September 09, 2012, 09:53 pm
Dude, wretched... what did you take... I want some  :'(
Title: Re: Early Finalization
Post by: wretched on September 09, 2012, 10:05 pm
Dude, wretched... what did you take... I want some  :'(

~50mg of pure emotion mixed with a dash of insight and a heaping spoonful of intermingling perception of time and space. Average Sunday afternoon stuff brother!
Title: Re: Early Finalization
Post by: Ensine99 on September 09, 2012, 10:33 pm
Dude, wretched... what did you take... I want some  :'(

~50mg of pure emotion mixed with a dash of insight and a heaping spoonful of intermingling perception of time and space. Average Sunday afternoon stuff brother!

Damn, Limitless sells that too now does he?  :P
Title: Re: Early Finalization
Post by: fyg on September 09, 2012, 10:51 pm
Proud Member of USA S.A.F.E. (Sellers Against Finalizing Early)
http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?topic=41740.0
Title: Re: Early Finalization
Post by: smokeweed420 on September 09, 2012, 10:52 pm
I learned my lesson with early finalization one time. NEVER AGAIN. but starting out you will most likely not have a choice because vendors require it. but after you get good stats and have been here a long time you dont have to worry. Even sellers that require it dont bother asking me after they see my stats usually
Title: Re: Early Finalization
Post by: bill417 on September 09, 2012, 10:55 pm
Finalise early needs to be burnt with fire. Would love to see it out-right banned, though likely not to happen.

The only time FE is possibly okay is when it's a very reputable seller whom you've already had several successful deals with. The escrow system is in place for a good reason!
Title: Re: Early Finalization
Post by: sitamaja1 on September 09, 2012, 11:10 pm
As terrible as FE can be, it can be a necessity at some points, as when buyers have 0 stats or very bad stats.

~~sitamaja
Title: Re: Early Finalization
Post by: fyg on September 09, 2012, 11:18 pm
there are options other than asking for FE.
Title: Re: Early Finalization
Post by: wretched on September 09, 2012, 11:47 pm
Dude, wretched... what did you take... I want some  :'(

~50mg of pure emotion mixed with a dash of insight and a heaping spoonful of intermingling perception of time and space. Average Sunday afternoon stuff brother!

Damn, Limitless sells that too now does he?  :P

nah, limitless doesn't have my recipe. don't know or care what he's selling, but I'm 100% it ain't this good.
Title: Re: Early Finalization
Post by: wretched on September 09, 2012, 11:54 pm
As terrible as FE can be, it can be a necessity at some points, as when buyers have 0 stats or very bad stats.

~~sitamaja

You must not have read my earlier post. take a peek at it. I will go out on a limb and say that NO single scam buyer has ever gotten away with product over the entire past year equal to even 1 FE scam can take in a single day. the protection of many is worth the hassle of the few. zero stats or bad stats? require those buyers to purchase DCN or even signed for first order (I know, I know, if you sign for a package, you lose the "really, that isn't mine, I promise" defense. And I haven't reviewed very many vendors or listings lately, but I would venture a guess that you won't find a single item you can't get from a vendor who doesn't require FE, so shop around till you find someone who cares about you as much as they care about your money!
Title: Re: Early Finalization
Post by: sitamaja1 on September 10, 2012, 12:08 am
As terrible as FE can be, it can be a necessity at some points, as when buyers have 0 stats or very bad stats.

~~sitamaja

You must not have read my earlier post. take a peek at it. I will go out on a limb and say that NO single scam buyer has ever gotten away with product over the entire past year equal to even 1 FE scam can take in a single day. the protection of many is worth the hassle of the few. zero stats or bad stats? require those buyers to purchase DCN or even signed for first order (I know, I know, if you sign for a package, you lose the "really, that isn't mine, I promise" defense. And I haven't reviewed very many vendors or listings lately, but I would venture a guess that you won't find a single item you can't get from a vendor who doesn't require FE, so shop around till you find someone who cares about you as much as they care about your money!

Yea, hmm, sorry I wasn't really concentrated on this topic and I posted in a wrong thread first and the post I made to this thread was just a quick mass opinion.

PS! You don't lose the "really, that isn't mine, I promise" defense with signing for the package, because I'd sign pretty much everything that comes for me, as would 99% of the world's population.

~~sitamaja
Title: Re: Early Finalization
Post by: wretched on September 10, 2012, 12:10 am
I just forgot to put the [sarcasm] before that statement
Title: Re: Early Finalization
Post by: knicknack on September 10, 2012, 12:44 am
You are right wretched.
This is why I don't ask for FE.
So far it's fared me well and I don't see this changing.
The vast majority of people on this site are class.
Title: Re: Early Finalization
Post by: fyg on September 10, 2012, 12:45 am
As terrible as FE can be, it can be a necessity at some points, as when buyers have 0 stats or very bad stats.

~~sitamaja

You must not have read my earlier post. take a peek at it. I will go out on a limb and say that NO single scam buyer has ever gotten away with product over the entire past year equal to even 1 FE scam can take in a single day. the protection of many is worth the hassle of the few. zero stats or bad stats? require those buyers to purchase DCN or even signed for first order (I know, I know, if you sign for a package, you lose the "really, that isn't mine, I promise" defense. And I haven't reviewed very many vendors or listings lately, but I would venture a guess that you won't find a single item you can't get from a vendor who doesn't require FE, so shop around till you find someone who cares about you as much as they care about your money!

i agree. a single FE scam can probably net more than all the buyer scams in a year put together. this doesnt mean we should disregard buyer scams though, but we have a vendors forum for that and you should always assume that if anything goes wrong with your order, that the vendor is gonna search/post there before he even replies to you.

knickknack consider joining S.A.F.E. (Sellers Against Finalizing Early)
http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?topic=41740.0
Title: Re: Early Finalization
Post by: sitamaja1 on September 10, 2012, 12:53 am
As terrible as FE can be, it can be a necessity at some points, as when buyers have 0 stats or very bad stats.

~~sitamaja

You must not have read my earlier post. take a peek at it. I will go out on a limb and say that NO single scam buyer has ever gotten away with product over the entire past year equal to even 1 FE scam can take in a single day. the protection of many is worth the hassle of the few. zero stats or bad stats? require those buyers to purchase DCN or even signed for first order (I know, I know, if you sign for a package, you lose the "really, that isn't mine, I promise" defense. And I haven't reviewed very many vendors or listings lately, but I would venture a guess that you won't find a single item you can't get from a vendor who doesn't require FE, so shop around till you find someone who cares about you as much as they care about your money!

i agree. a single FE scam can probably net more than all the buyer scams in a year put together. this doesnt mean we should disregard buyer scams though, but we have a vendors forum for that and you should always assume that if anything goes wrong with your order, that the vendor is gonna search/post there before he even replies to you.

knickknack consider joining S.A.F.E. (Sellers Against Finalizing Early)
http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?topic=41740.0

Please stop whoring out Your S.A.F.E, otherwise I'll just report spamming to a mod <.<
Title: Re: Early Finalization
Post by: fyg on September 10, 2012, 01:51 am
As terrible as FE can be, it can be a necessity at some points, as when buyers have 0 stats or very bad stats.

~~sitamaja

You must not have read my earlier post. take a peek at it. I will go out on a limb and say that NO single scam buyer has ever gotten away with product over the entire past year equal to even 1 FE scam can take in a single day. the protection of many is worth the hassle of the few. zero stats or bad stats? require those buyers to purchase DCN or even signed for first order (I know, I know, if you sign for a package, you lose the "really, that isn't mine, I promise" defense. And I haven't reviewed very many vendors or listings lately, but I would venture a guess that you won't find a single item you can't get from a vendor who doesn't require FE, so shop around till you find someone who cares about you as much as they care about your money!

i agree. a single FE scam can probably net more than all the buyer scams in a year put together. this doesnt mean we should disregard buyer scams though, but we have a vendors forum for that and you should always assume that if anything goes wrong with your order, that the vendor is gonna search/post there before he even replies to you.

knickknack consider joining S.A.F.E. (Sellers Against Finalizing Early)
http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?topic=41740.0

Please stop whoring out Your S.A.F.E, otherwise I'll just report spamming to a mod <.<

sir, i have mentioned SAFE in exactly two threads. the original thread and this one that is directly related to the topic under discussion. i am currently engaged in both of these threads. if you believe this is spam, please slowly release some of the tension in your anal cavity. k thanks. also, if you have a problem with anything ive said, please take it up with me directly with a little less sarcasm if you expect me to take anything you say seriously.