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Discussion => Philosophy, Economics and Justice => Topic started by: 69isfun on December 17, 2012, 01:58 pm

Title: Newtown CT and Gun Control Conspiracy
Post by: 69isfun on December 17, 2012, 01:58 pm
I got this email last night-  Free Market enthusiasts please sound off:

Quote
The primary-school shooting in Newtown, Connecticut, approximately 45 miles from the Colt Arms Factory, is just another one in the long line of government psyops designed to persuade the public to allow the government to take away their guns, and their means to defend themselves against the government and the banksters that the politicians really serve.


The small children murders are designed to create hysterical emotions in women to get them to demand that guns are banned. If that doesn’t work they will continue with their evil agenda with worse and worse atrocities on younger children, until they get their way and disarm the people, so that they cannot fight back against government tyranny.


Newtown is the U.S.A.’s Dunblane, which was orchestrated in Scotland in 1996 by the British establishment, to whip up hysteria in order to ban all handguns from the U.K. It was a follow-up to the Hungerford Massacre in England in 1987, which was carried out by mind-controlled Michael Ryan, who then shot himself so he could not be questioned, and it was used to ban semi-automatic rifles and shotguns.


It’s always the same people behind it – the gun-grabbers who want the people to be defenceless against the gun-grabbers’ employers – the banksters who own all of the politicians. They get their politicians to pass legislation for them, in order to remove the people’s freedoms and means of defending themselves, and enslave them in a draconian police-state, under a mountain of debt, and then exterminate the useless-eaters.


The Dunblane  massacre was supposedly carried out by Thomas Hamilton, who was a paedophile and procurer of children, for a high level paedophile ring involving senior members of the Tony Blair Labour-Party shadow-cabinet and others. The massacre served two purposes, it achieved their desired handgun-ban and killed the abused children, so they could not be witnesses against the elite-paedophiles. They then had the findings of the inquiry sealed for 100 years, which is proof of the above.


Like Newtown there were two shooters, Hamilton and a hit-man who shot Hamilton and made it look like Hamilton committed suicide after shooting 16 children, so that he couldn’t be questioned. Hamilton was found in the school gymnasium slumped against a wall and still gurgling, when an off-duty policeman PC Grant McCutcheon entered the gym and saw two semi-automatic pistols, one on either side of Hamilton’s body.


The autopsy revealed that Hamilton was killed with a .38 revolver. These people always slip-up with their crimes. There was no .38 revolver for him to have shot himself with. Thus, there was a second shooter who killed Hamilton.


Similarly, the first reports from Newtown were of two shooters, just like mind-controlled James Holmes in the Denver Batman Cinema massacre, the story then quickly changes to just one.


Columbine was similar, in that a team of shooters in black outfits were seen there and the two accused were on mind-altering prescription-drugs.


Wake up and see the pattern and their modus operandi and don’t fall for it. Never let them take your guns, except from your cold dead hands.


All of these are staged events to whip-up hysterical public support for banning the people from having guns. It works the same in every country – Hungerford in England, Dunblane in Scotland, Port Arthur in Australia and the list in America is endless, because of the Second Amendment and the people having a pro-gun culture. That makes it much more difficult to break the Americans’ love of guns and the Second Amendment, which was put in place to protect the people from the government.


Gun bans work well for tyrants. They worked well for Hitler, Stalin and Chairman Mao, to name just three.


If you want to stop these massacres, wake-up and get rid of the banksters, their puppet-politicians and all gun-grabbers; arm teachers and ban gun-free zones.


From one who can see the pattern and hopes to enable you to see it too.
Title: Re: Newtown CT and Gun Control Conspiracy
Post by: nuyt on December 17, 2012, 07:35 pm
Figures. Honestly I'm disgusted by people who's minds have been so warped by conspiracy theory bullshit that they'd put this stuff out in the world. And honestly fuck you for bringing crap like this onto SR. Admittedly, I believe people should be free to post whatever they want. But with that being said. Fuck you, and fuck whoever wrote this sad shit up.

That is all.
Title: Re: Newtown CT and Gun Control Conspiracy
Post by: Red Rama on December 17, 2012, 09:14 pm
As much as I'd like to believe the media, oftentimes they're the ones to blame for conspiracy theorists. While most Mass Murder shootings are pretty straightforward when it comes to investigating/determining what happened, some of the more recent ones happening in the states are pretty fishy. Aurora for one, you're not going to convince me that wasn't an inside job. The Oregon mall shooting too has a few holes in the "official" story the news outlets have been running, but that one seems more or less forgotten now that the tragedy in Newton took place. Whether or not they're responsible themselves for the tragedy, you can't deny the government will still sway it in their favor. Especially when they can turn it into "you either support stricter gun control or 6 year olds getting shot". As far as whoever wrote you trying to claim Columbine was an inside job, I nearly laughed at that one. As someone who went through his last two years of High School with plenty of people joking (possibly some people were serious too) that I was going to shoot up the school, I felt compelled to learn every detail I could about the case. Only one of them (Eric Harris) was taking any sort of prescription/anxiety medication. Part of the problem was he stopped taking them, and even on the particular drug he was taking, it had documented cases of actually exacerbating violent thought/behavior. There's plenty of his journal writings/drawings online that argue he was a very disturbed person, and his shorter stature and shyness sometimes made him a target for bullying. Dylan on the other hand was by all accounts well liked and quite social, and his tall frame likely spared him the ridicule his friend faced. Unlike Eric, Dylan wasn't really what you'd call "disturbed". While he had some violent fantasies/daydreams (don't we all?) it's clear from accounts by friends/family/classmates that Eric was the one who did the majority of the actual planning of the Massacre. Had he and Eric not been so close, odds are he would've went on studying electronics like he planned.
Title: Re: Newtown CT and Gun Control Conspiracy
Post by: 69isfun on December 18, 2012, 12:13 am
I can post whatever I want here...  I am also upset that a bunch of children got shot- just calm down over there.  Free market folks should watch out for crazy talk like this.  Nobody wants a bunch of conspiracy theorists flying the same flag you are. 
Title: Re: Newtown CT and Gun Control Conspiracy
Post by: sourman on December 18, 2012, 01:06 pm
Some people will always see a conspiracy when they are really witnessing a collective, unconscious episode of human stupidity.

A person who talked about having no conscience or ability to "feel pain" suddenly decides to steal his mother's legally owned firearms and do the worst possible thing he could think of at the time. Media knows the word "gun" incites people, so they spin that side of the story. People, being people, watch 200 hours of news coverage and only remember a few key points, mainly that guns are bad m'kay, and that a desire to impose unspecified controls on guns is necessary.

It's hard for some to accept the fact that when people snap these days, the cool thing to do is commit suicide in a memorable way, which usually ends up being mass murder. Why? Because the media eats this shit up and gives the shooters celebrity status. That's just the way it is. What the fuck does making guns harder to get have to do with this? Who honestly believes that a dude capable of shooting 20 five year olds is going to just forget about the whole thing if guns become a little scarcer. There are probably more guns than people in North America. It's not even logistically possible to get rid of them all right now.

Let's say we do magically get rid of all guns by declaring them to be illegal. What's going to stop a nutjob from driving into some urban playground at 50MPH and mowing down the kids GTA style? Lemme guess, put concrete barriers around schools and/or place unreliable child-detection systems in cars. I say you fire the lazy traffic pigs writing bullshit tickets all day and hire a few ex-military dudes to patrol schools instead, armed of course. The pussy that shot up this school killed himself as soon as he heard the cops. If they were already there, this likely wouldn't have happened. Even if there was a shootout, at least they would confine him to one area. That's a much better outcome than a roaming gunman entering classroom after classroom just shooting the kids like Doom with God mode on.
Title: Re: Newtown CT and Gun Control Conspiracy
Post by: Meatgrinder on December 18, 2012, 04:05 pm
What a crock of shit! Some people have too much time on their hands for this bullshit.
Title: Re: Newtown CT and Gun Control Conspiracy
Post by: 69isfun on December 18, 2012, 06:21 pm
"I'll make you famous." - The gun whispers to the nut-job.

Title: Re: Newtown CT and Gun Control Conspiracy
Post by: nuyt on December 18, 2012, 07:51 pm
Some people will always see a conspiracy when they are really witnessing a collective, unconscious episode of human stupidity.

A person who talked about having no conscience or ability to "feel pain" suddenly decides to steal his mother's legally owned firearms and do the worst possible thing he could think of at the time. Media knows the word "gun" incites people, so they spin that side of the story. People, being people, watch 200 hours of news coverage and only remember a few key points, mainly that guns are bad m'kay, and that a desire to impose unspecified controls on guns is necessary.

It's hard for some to accept the fact that when people snap these days, the cool thing to do is commit suicide in a memorable way, which usually ends up being mass murder. Why? Because the media eats this shit up and gives the shooters celebrity status. That's just the way it is. What the fuck does making guns harder to get have to do with this? Who honestly believes that a dude capable of shooting 20 five year olds is going to just forget about the whole thing if guns become a little scarcer. There are probably more guns than people in North America. It's not even logistically possible to get rid of them all right now.

Let's say we do magically get rid of all guns by declaring them to be illegal. What's going to stop a nutjob from driving into some urban playground at 50MPH and mowing down the kids GTA style? Lemme guess, put concrete barriers around schools and/or place unreliable child-detection systems in cars. I say you fire the lazy traffic pigs writing bullshit tickets all day and hire a few ex-military dudes to patrol schools instead, armed of course. The pussy that shot up this school killed himself as soon as he heard the cops. If they were already there, this likely wouldn't have happened. Even if there was a shootout, at least they would confine him to one area. That's a much better outcome than a roaming gunman entering classroom after classroom just shooting the kids like Doom with God mode on.

I believe there is a WIDE gulf between status quo and the extreme fantasy you're talking about, taking every gun existing in the US and shooting them to the moon or whatever, and in the gulf there is plenty of room for some type of workable gun control.

Your own description of Ryan Lanza is that he was an opportunist, not a mastermind. He grabbed guns that were READILY available. So if some type of control was passed that made guns LESS readily available, the burden of proof would be on you to say why that wouldn't potentially decrease incidents like this.

And you're analogy about somebody driving a car through a playground, contrary to your intention to use it to show that passing gun control wouldn't achieve anything because wackos will be wackos, actually I find to be toothless. If worst came to worst and I had to choose between my kid trying to jump out of the way of a car barreling down on him, and trying to drive out of the way of a bullet fired at him. IT WOULD BE CAR EVERY TIME.

Personally I'd rather we pass gun control than set up military-style posts in every school in this country. I just see that option as insane. It's like the idea from the NRA crowd that the ideal should be that every person in America owns and carries a gun. That that would be infinitely preferable to passing any kind of gun control. That's just so out of touch with reality I don't even know where to begin...
Title: Re: Newtown CT and Gun Control Conspiracy
Post by: sourman on December 18, 2012, 11:20 pm
Sure, you can make guns less available in hopes that SOME random 20-somethings living with mom won't have access to them, but these mass shootings are so rare that it only takes ONE psycho at the wrong place at the wrong time. These things are unpredictable and by nature have no clear solution.

Adam Lanza's mom was perfectly compliant with the law as far as we know. So now we make all guns harder to get for everyone in hopes it makes some statistical difference in mass shootings? It would take decades to even verify that it's working, and the results would be dubious at best. In the meantime, guns are still here, except they are now much more likely to end up in the hands of violent criminals. Remember, passing unenforceable gun laws will only impact people who follow laws in the first place. My area has strict gun control laws as it is, and anyone here who is at all involved in the underground is one phone call away from whatever gun they want.
 
Sure, restricting access to firearms MAY prevent opportunists from impulsively shooting people, but that's like making cars harder to buy in order to curb drunk driving. Plus, it's not going to stop the James Holmes type of killers that plan this shit out. A car may be easier to dodge than a bullet, but it's also harder to stop. There are lots of creative ways to murder people, although I still doubt we'd see much of this innovation even if gun control is increased. Homeowners and hunters will have to face more bullshit while anyone with connections to the black market will continue getting whatever they want. If anything, it will just drive up the price of illegal firearms, but not enough to make a significant difference in their availability to the average person.