Silk Road forums
Discussion => Drug safety => Topic started by: ianfleming on October 04, 2012, 10:11 pm
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Ok, so out of pure curiosity, what mix of drugs would both block re-uptake of dopamine and serotonin and cause a dump of both as well.
I believe MDPV blocks serotonin re-uptake and causes more to be produced. Is there a drug or mix of drugs that can do this for dopamine?
To be clear I AM NOT ever going to take any mix listed here. I don't fuck with really anything but psychedelics. I just had friend ask me (she was curious, as we discus drugs and medicine like most people discuss philosophy) and I did not have any good answer.
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This would probably require a really odd mix of drugs.
As far as the serotonin goes, the combination of a drug like mdma with ssri's will lead to serotonin syndrome, which is potentially fatal on its own.
Getting the dopamine system in a similar state of overload is much more difficult. A combination of a strong dopaminergic agent like l-dopa with a re-uptake inhibitor like cocaine may eventually cause a syndrome comparable to that of serotonin.
I'm not sure the latter will result in fatal condition though - having that much free dopanine in the synapses may drive you insane, but would in itself not be deadly unless you suffered a heart attack or stroke as the result of highly elevated blood pressure and such. To me it sounds like a recipe for the worst hangover ever rather then a suicide attempt.
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thats exactly what methamphetamine does... as well as mdma (not as much dopaminergic activity)
targets the vesicular monoamine transporters, which loads vesicles with neurotransmitters for release into the synapse upon CA influx
meth causes these dopamine, serotonin, and norepinephrine transporters to run in reverse, dumping the contents into the cytoplasm. when the intracellular levels rise, this causes changes in concentration gradients enough to force the monoamines across the membrane into the synapse while subsequently inhibiting re-uptake transporters because they are running in reverse due to the gradients
http://www.cmaj.ca/content/178/13/1679.full
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i should clarify, if you are referring to something that targets mainly dopaminergic and less serotonergic neural systems, then amphetamine would more accurately fit what you were describing
it mainly causes similar instances but effects DAT more than SERT so effects are mainly with dopamine and norep, less of the serotonin characteristic of meth and mdma
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I thought Methamphetamine only affected the dopamine system.
So if you mixed these it would do it?
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you dont need to mix anything
you asked what causes release of monoamines while subsequently preventing re-uptake which is exactly what many drugs do by themselves, including amphetamine, methamphetamine, and methylenedioxymethamphetamine
each one has slightly different effects on the monoamine systems and brain regions. it is amp that does not have much serotonergic activity but still has slight activity in certain regions. meth (and mdma) has strong serotonergic components as was mentioned in the source provided by MM
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try MDA
or
a BZP TFMPP combo
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you dont need to mix anything
you asked what causes release of monoamines while subsequently preventing re-uptake which is exactly what many drugs do by themselves, including amphetamine, methamphetamine, and methylenedioxymethamphetamine
each one has slightly different effects on the monoamine systems and brain regions. it is amp that does not have much serotonergic activity but still has slight activity in certain regions. meth (and mdma) has strong serotonergic components as was mentioned in the source provided by MM
I suppose the question was if the combination would be deadly though. In extremely large amounts its not hard to indentify drugs that would be deadly just by themselves, but i guess that's not the point.
I wonder if there is a combination of real-world drugs in regular doses that would result in fatality due to an overdose of dopamine in the synapses.
I've heard of cases where people got serotonin symptom due to simply being on srri's and taking xtc at the same time, probably not knowing about the danger of the combination. I can't recall ever reading something similar with the dopamine system - although i'm not sure if its just less sensitive to such an overloading, or a combination of drugs that would cause it is just very rare.
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there is absolutely no mention of death anywhere in the OP i just reworded what he asked.
you are actually correct though, by further increasing serotonin level initially with an ssri pretty much does what he is referring to even worse, which can be dangerous. but my point was trying to be that what he mentions are very common pharmacological mechanisms of drug action
and i believe the reason the massive efflux of dopamine doesnt produce a lethal result is all about the regions of the brain and processes controlled by dopaminergic neurons... just like why opioids will kill you but benzos wont easily (i am over simplifying and talking about by themselves) because of the specific area of the brain effected even though they are both acting on gabanergic neural systems essentially
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Considering the title of this thread is "Superdrug combo (death?)" i take it that this is a question about fatality.
As far as benzo's not killing you i agree on that standpoint. Idiotic amounts may result in death, especially when combined with alcohol and lack of medical treatnent, but simply taking a tenfold dose like 100 mg diazepam (10x indicated dose) will not be fatal if not combined with another substance. I suppose this os one of the reasons benzos quickly replaced barbiturates decades ago.
What i find most interesting about the discussion is how overloading the serotonin system seems to be far more dangerous compared to overloading the dopamine system. This may mostly be due to non-central-nervous effects. Somehow it seems odd that the combination of a bit of xtc with a prescription ssri may prove fatal, while h having some drinks with cocaine rarely causes any lasting physical damage.