Silk Road forums
Discussion => Philosophy, Economics and Justice => Topic started by: mrjohndank on June 28, 2013, 03:41 pm
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I keep bonking my head over this one. On one hand, everyone has his or her inalienable rights. In theory, this include children as well as adults. But here is the thing: where does liberty start and stop? On one hand, i could see some kids being responsible with sex and legal obligations, yet other one no. I just don't see where the age of consent has it's basis. If even a baby is a person (like conservatives say), doesn't that mean it has rights and obligations as well. But if it does not, and is merely property (like Rothbard alluded to), then doesn't that mean that children can be property of their parents at their discretion? IDK. I just think that the law should not be arbitrary, but there is no better alternative. Personally I think it should be 14, since there is legal precedence, and historical precedence.
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I think it should be a gradual increase in responsibilities, rather than a sudden cliff. For example, at age 12 you can consent to kissing, at 14 you can give a handjob, at 16 a blowjob, and you can consent to intercourse when you're old enough to take legal responsibility for a child (18 maybe?).
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I have to disagree with the OP about the age. Also a child has to be taught an grow and develop over the youth an teen years so that can make the right decisions when older.
I think (18) is the right age , I think 18 is the legal age in most places,country's etc.
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I have to disagree with the OP about the age. Also a child has to be taught an grow and develop over the youth an teen years so that can make the right decisions when older.
I think (18) is the right age , I think 18 is the legal age in most places,country's etc.
I believe the only country that has a higher age of consent than 18 is Madagascar (21), the VAST majority of the world has an age of consent below 18, including a large part of the USA (where the age of consent federally is 16, with some states setting it one or two years higher). The average age of consent world wide is 16, and it ranges from less than 12 up to 21.
The biggest cluster of land where the age of consent is 18+ is in the western United States and central Africa, with sprinkles elsewhere through out the world. Despite this fact most Americans seem to think that the age of consent is 18+, possibly because that is the age of consent to appear in pornography (and the age which you can legally own pornography of somebody), or possibly because the people in this area (of the US) are the loudest ones screaming that anything less than 18 is rape (of course they need to scream loud since they are a drop in the bucket). http://chartsbin.com/view/hxj
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I also vote for 14 (you should make this a poll by the way)
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In the state im in iv seen a few guys go to prison for fucking with a 16 year old girl.
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In the state im in iv seen a few guys go to prison for fucking with a 16 year old girl.
Well you must live in either Colorado, Illinois, Louisiana, Missouri, Nebraska, New Mexico, New York, Texas, Wyoming, Arizona, California, Delaware, Florida, Idaho, North Dakota, Oregon, Tennessee, Utah, Virginia or Wisconsin then.
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The soul cannot be possessed. _-_ssesse_-_
legal right and moral right are two different things
how old are you before you felt 'no'? said 'no'? thats disconcent and when that happens you've clearly marked when you can consent.
im really sensitive under a certain light about sex, particularly a young girls sexuality. I so much want them to be pure and virginal that it hurts me when they aren't. however I gotta say that if your old enough to enjoy sex then have at it. 10 and 50? as far as I'm concerned if both want it then its not different then 20 and 20 ....or 20 and 17 for that matter. you may gasp and go "wha-Wha-WHAT!?" because clearly the 10 year old doesn't know better and isn't developed enough to realize fully the implications of what they are doing but...um...christ, you ever met a 20 year old? it may not be the same intensity (or in some cases it may be) but its the same principal. if you are a human who masturbates and has empathy then you are ready in some sense for sexual connection with another. there will be many senses where your not still ready ,and I'd like you to be fully devoloped and strong and have a lot to share and not be so overshadowed that your being used. 10 and 50 in probably 99.9 percent of the cases it happens doesn't meet the criteria of two equal partners sharing, but I'm sure its not outside the realm of possible . you always have to look at the absurdities to see what does make sense. so go ahead and be foolish, be ignorant , be human. do as you please and when you stop and say 'what I have done was wrong' learn from it. what I consider right will aid you none in developing personal morality , the only law that counts, just because I think it.
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I came here to say "inb4 kmfkewm" but I was too late :(
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This is like a box of snakes, I know I'm going to regret it... and yet I am drawn in, I have to open the hissing box.
Adolescents can make their other reproductive (and other) health decisions, as a general rule. Adolescents generally are treated as having what's called graduated autonomy for privileges/responsibilities, but the 'mature minor' concept applies for medical decision-making. The right to decide what actions to take with your body is considered to be essential and fundamental and should be honored as part of treating humans with basic dignity. (Unless it involves ingesting substances, apparently. You can't be trusted with that as an adult.) Rather than assuming capacity and then examining for diminished capacity when needed, with an adolescent, one assumes 'developing capacity' and then determines the level.
I do not see any compelling reason why sexual autonomy is different from other decisional capacity involving interactions with others and social pressure.
If someone can make the treatment decisions for sequelae of sex, it is bizarre to say they do not have the ability to consent to sex in the first place. Restricting the sexual behavior of 'mature minors' based on the predatory behavior of some (immature) adults makes as much sense to me as restricting the drug-taking behavior of adults based on the predatory behavior of some people in the drug-taking/selling world. ["Some people have been robbed or killed in transactions involving drugs, therefore all drug-use must be bad and illegal."]
We use arbitrary ages for certain things such as 'age of consent' because the majority of people hit these developmental milestones on a predictable timeline. The 'rule of sevens' is a classic arbitrary rule. A child under 7 can't provide informed consent, can't formulate criminal plans/thought, can't be negligent. From 7 to 14, a minor is considered to lack capacity, but we start to ask them for consent; it's a question of 'developing' capacity, not diminished capacity. From 14 to 18/21, they are considered capable of consent, and often are considered responsible for criminal or negligent conduct. Depending on the crime, from 14-17, they may be considered adult, depending on evaluation and jurisdiction.
Very few 12 year olds will truly meet the standards of decisional capacity, which I am, with effort, refraining from outlining. They also lack autonomy in making decisions and will defer to the adult (they will deny this tooth-and-nail; objectively, when you look at behavior, they defer to the adult/authority). Sweeping generalizations follow: Humans start differentiating and making their 'own' decisions independent of adult influence around 13, most are differentiated by 15 (although peer influence becomes much more potent). By 16 they (fairly) reliably display autonomy.
Reacting with the 'reflexive no' is not really an autonomous response - 14 year olds tend to start here and move into more actual autonomy by 15. Most 15 year olds can meet the cognitive standards for consent, and 16+ year olds should, otherwise they go into the narrow end of the bell curve.
Where it gets weird is peer influence, gist reasoning, blah blah blah. [But you know what? I don't hold an adult to those standards. "Is that person unduly influenced by their peers to marry?" I look at the elements of capacity, and executive autonomy, and see if they're met, and I move the hell on.]
So...
TL;DR, since there's no poll:
16 - sure.
15 - could live with it. It's not ideal but I'd rather in this case default on the side of independence and the fact that normal developmental process is, uh, normal.
14 - I just... I've interviewed too many 14 year olds lately. There are exceptions but they're rare. Can't live with 14.
13 - Nope. They're not there yet.
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I do believe there should be an age of consent but I don't know what it should be. I do think we should settle on an age. Having different ages for age of consent, age one can drive, age one can vote, age one can drink, age one can smoke, and age one can enlist in the military is ridiculous.
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Here is the thing, I am not informed enough on the matter to make a decision, but now that I think of it, you could just apply rape to child abuses now, so that might figure out the whole without age of consent. But then again, how can a baby defend him or herself in court. That would be my major thing: babyfuckers. Or child snuff. I read about a case in Russia where a guy made child snuff from homeless kids and was selling it to the UK. In cases like those, how do you know if the consented or not. Those would be my two major concerns. I think 14 under a statist society would be fine. I think as the agorist mindset take off, more and more people will be able to handle themselves.
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I have recently been thinking about this. I live in the UK and the age for consent is 16 and I have always thought that was for the best but recently on the news there has been a story about a school teacher called "Jeremey Forest" if you live in the UK you would have seen this all over the news a girl was 15 years old fancied her teacher and they ran away together, it was compeltley consensual and she says she loves him etc. Jeremey Forrest has just been sentenced to five years in prison which to me seems ridiculous why so longer when they both wanted it. She is now 16 and is saying she will be staying with the teacher when he is released from prison and they will get married.
I do think it would be fucked up if it was below 14 though as it means you could have 11 year olds having sex with forty year olds etc which is disgusting.
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^ Pretty much this. I find that the feeling of disgust that the thought of somebody having sex with somebody else invokes in me is a good indicator of the appropriateness of the sexual interaction, although it is largely subjective and not based on logic (although I find that the two things are correlated pretty much exactly). The thought of a 40 year old fucking a baby makes me feel pretty damn disgusted. The thought of a 40 year old fucking an 11 year old makes me feel nauseous as well, although not as much so. The thought of a 40 year old fucking a willing 14 year old makes me.....not disgusted anyway.
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people tend to change their mind on this subject as soon as they have their own kids. I told my daughter that she is not allowed to have sex until I die lol
Fuck no the age of consent should not be 14. Honestly people don't have any sense until they are 30
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at the age of 14, most brains are still developing.. they are still kids, with malleable minds. i'm fine with 18. maybe the brain isn't done developing at 18, but it's much closer to being developed than 14. when kids who are not fully aware of the repercussions of what they do, it could be habit-forming and manifest into something even worse in later adulthood.