Silk Road forums
Discussion => Shipping => Topic started by: dapj on April 11, 2012, 04:56 pm
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All i can find are sites with industrial machines, but this a question for vendors who vacuum their goodness. Is there a small vacuum machine that you can buy online. I mean like when i get an order of 0.5gr h it is a very small square plastic bag. So do you have to buy a vacuum machine or are there methods that you can do by yourself to let all the air/smell out??
Greettzz
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Buy a foodsaver vac sealer from amazon.com
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nucleo didnt have a vac machine and didnt seem to have any seizures even with packages coming from golden triangle, maybe if you suck the right dick someone will explain how he did it to you. i guess you arent in north america but a site lke craigs list (classified site) or thrift stores are a good bet to get one cheap. you can buy them at walmart even if you have them. hell you could buy one at walmart vacseal loads of shit and return it. costs nothing. fuck walmart.
they were popular a few years ago but bags cost to much for house wives and they just ditched them so thrift stores and shit get them for sure. yard sales and shit too.
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Buy a foodsaver vac sealer from amazon.com
This. You can create your own sizes for the bags by cutting them, I believe.
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Thx for the replies guys ;)
Greettzz
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Wal, Kohls, K-mart, Bed bath n beyond, ebay, amazon...
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If you're going to be a vendor you're going to need a stronger, quicker machine than a foodsaver.
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If you're going to be a vendor you're going to need a stronger, quicker machine than a foodsaver.
Are foodsavers just not worth the time? Like to seal 10 small gram baggies vac'd, how long would that take with the foodsaver?
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If your in the USA you can find food saver brand at Walmart and Target, along with any other retail store of that nature. They are ~$70 with the bags costing about $20 (the ones you can manually cut into different sizes and seal) so about $100 total investment. It will pay off quickly and the bags last quite awhile.
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Yes but i am from Western EU, will ask Noriega or C63amg
Greettzz
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another vacuum sealing thread
Now this is like the 6th time I've posted this bit of advice, and again sorry if you've already read it but I'm trying to spread the word
DO NOT USE PLASTIC BAGGING FOR SEALING DRUGS, use metal laminate MBBs
DO NOT BOTHER WITH VACUUM SEALS, leave enough air in to check for pinholes, these are of much greater concern than absolute pressure differential.
FYI, i'm a retired EE, I worked many years in the aerospace and commercial electronics world and I know a thing or two about packaging & contamination control...
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this whole vacuum seal in plastic bagging is poor practice, do not bother with vacuum sealers, do not use food-grade plastic bagging or any simple plastic bagging for that matter.
the slight differential in air pressure you impart on your packaging will not help anything. Diffusion of the organic molecules responsible for scent is based on the difference in partial pressure or vapor pressure of those scent molecules, not the absolute pressure.
even if you have a very strong vacuum (<10torr) there will still be much more volatile organics inside the packaging than out... it is that gradient that controls the direction of diffusion. the diffusion current will cause those molecules to flow outward. I know it seems counter-intuitive but that is how it works.
Food grade plastic and vacuum sealers will control scents well enough to get past a human nose, but most plastics are permeable enough that a dog or an IMS gas sample scanner will easily pick up many drugs.
If you're bagging to control emission of compromising scents use a metal laminate moisture barrier bag, don't vacuum seal, instead leave air in so you can put in a bucket of water and squeeze and check for leaks, if there's no leaks clean the bag to deal with the surface contamination, maintain it at a molecularly clean state as you package it and ship.
if you're buying a heat sealer, find an industrial grade one with at least a 5mm wide seal line. Just buy one mail-order
I don't know how prolific IMS scanners are for customs to use on US mail but ever since the whole "mail bombs to america thing" I'd bet they're scanning more and more incoming mail and possibly domestic mail as well. IMS scanners aren't as good as a dog's nose, but they're not far off, and even if they were originally deployed for explosives only the detection of drugs could be accomplished with nothing more than a software update.
Anyways if you don't trust me (and you should never trust strangers) get online and spend a few hours reading up on these topics:
permeability of plastics
read up on diffusion and refresh yourself on differential equations (the diffusion equation is a PDE and i know that's a painful bit of homework, so for those who aren't great at math you can skip this part, for those of you with good math skills you can look up diffusion rates of just about anything in aluminum at room temp and then you'll understand why the metal film is sandwiched inside the MBB)
moisture barrier bagging and permeability of metal laminate moisture barrier bags
Ion-mobility spectrometry for drug detection
sensitivity of dog noses and dog detection thresholds
get up to speed on those topics and you'll understand the "why" behind what I'm saying
I suppose I should post a thread explaining all this in greater detail.. but for now I think you get my drift.
Good luck
Bob
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FarmerBob,
Interesting information, will have to do some reading up.
What effects do these bags have on a xray do you know? Will they cause it to stick out like a sore thumb or do they allow xrays to pass relatively easily
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Information like this + some sources should really be on the wiki or a sticky.
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FarmerBob,
Interesting information, will have to do some reading up.
What effects do these bags have on a xray do you know? Will they cause it to stick out like a sore thumb or do they allow xrays to pass relatively easily
Also very curious. Being one who received drugs in the mail prior to knowing about SR, I have come across this material before but had forgotten about it.
The vacuum and heat sealers for those things are very expensive. Any place we can get them for less than an arm and a leg? :P
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Considering over 99% of all orders are successful, do people really need to start using expensive metal laminate vacuum packs?
The way most vendors are doing it at the moment, namely inside a baggie then double vac sealed seems to be working pretty much perfectly.
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raven, the aluminum layer is only a mil thick or so (26um for you metric folks). They will not be able to identify it as a metal layer bag on X-ray, and even if they saw it upon inspection it wouldn't look odd ass MBBs are universally used by the electronics industry for nearly all plastic packaged ICs that can be reflow soldered.
startweaker, again there is no need for pulling a vacuum on moisture barrier bags or any other. The diffusion rate for any VOC coming off your drugs is NOT dependent upon absolute pressure but rather partial pressure of that particular organic species.
Most any non-vacuum sealer (or vac-sealer) will do the job, the inner layer on most MBBs is HDPE so you can seal them with a food grade sealer if you must. Industrial grade sealers with 5mm seal lines or greater can be had on ebay / amazon for US$100 or so. Look up "TEW sealers" I think it's TEW that is the low-cost Chinese adjustable temp sealer manufacturer
Kappacino, I'd assume many of those 99% are small quantities or non-international shipments that are not generally subject to additional searches or drugs / RCs that sniffer dogs are not trained to detect. In those cases bagging is really not necessary for any reason except in the case of weed to prevent the package handlers or postal employees from smelling it and being tipped off. Food grade sealed bags will not be sufficient to allow any substantial quantity of coke, heroin, or other dog-detectable drug to pass a dog presentation test. MBBs are not that expensive, go dumpster diving at any electronics manufacturing plant and you'll get more than you could ever want. Or go to google shopping and get the 3M version (dry-shield I think is their trade name for it) It's cheap compared to the potential cost of 1% loss on high value shipments.
speaking of that I wonder what the % loss rates are for international shipments of common drugs. Anybody got any estimates or experience with that?
Years ago I was working at a plant in texas where they threw out an entire pallet of military & spacecraft grade bagging because they lost the lot & batch info & certification paperwork for it. I took home a couple thousand foot spools and used it like you'd use mylar as grow-room wallpaper. I still have more than I'll ever possibly need or used. Anyways, i'm sure there are many many sources out there for those of you that have high value stuff you'd like to get past dogs or scanners.
Best Regards
Bob
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Hi FarmerBob, thanks for sharing your knowledge with us. I have been doing a bit of looking around for some potential sources of MBBs, and I noticed that on some of the vendors' descriptions they say things like "batch coded for traceability".
I'm not sure whether anybody bothers keeping records of these numbers, but is it possible that these batch codes could potentially be linked to a seller, if they bought them legitimately with their own details.
Just a stoned thought, and i'm not sure how big of a deal it is, but I thought I'd throw it out there just in case. :-\
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UKGrower, very good point.
Every bag manufactured to mil-spec requirements will have some numbers impressed into the lower seal lines. If you get a bag that's been stamped you should cut the trace code out and reseal that edge.
Raw sheet stock is not imprinted with any trace codes, instead the wrapper and cardboard spool are marked with the trace info (mfr/batch/lot/date). It's the job of the guy who seals it into bagging to put a trace code on the formed bag.
Again, thank you for catching that and I should have mentioned that pre-formed bags or dumpster dive recovered bags might have trace codes on them. If you run into that just trim that edge off and reseal it.
Bob