Silk Road forums
Discussion => Off topic => Topic started by: motek on May 27, 2013, 10:58 am
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I'm not a big fan of the military when I see the way they have been "used' by ruthless powers to selfish ends. Much like guns, it's not the guns that kill people, people kill people 'with' guns. And it's the commanders 'in chief' that mobilize these huge killing forces.
I suggest these 'killing forces' are no longer required in a world made so small with communications and transport, open to diplomacy and past violence to resolve matters.
Sadly this seems to be an idealistic, but rather implausible idea with the currrent chickenhawks in charge of the largest military in the world, who's backers have HUGE 'vested interests' in maintaining the status quo, the ONLY 'changes' they want to see are congress approving MORE MONEY for them to spend. I dont have to tell you about the amazing amounts of money being spent by the US every day they stay in Afghanistan or Iraq or wherever.
Yet I wonder about the possibilities of 'diverting' this highly organized 'force' of people into humanitarian activities, and the amazing and wonderful things they could achieve by being a cohesive group of people under a well defined organizational structure.
I was wondering if any of you might dream such crazy dreams, and if you do, what do you think about this?
thanking you all in advance, can't wait to see what an intelligent non troll mob will do with this question
much meandering madly motek x
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well when the private firms who get government contracts can't provide the workers they promise.. call the army! made london 2012 a roaring success. or they could do the work of volunteers/aid workers in dangerous third world countries which they do a bit of already, creating infrastructure and stuff like that but then what'd happen to all those middle class gap year dickheads? how would they get to feel like they 'made a difference' whilst unwittingly damaging the communities they believe they are helping?
if we want to divert resources to more worthwhile causes we should probably stop funding the military beyond self preservation and have a good think about where money could be better spent which realistically is just about anywhere.
so i think my answer is rather than find an alternative use for armed forces, those people should think about an alternative career that isn't so death and destruction focused. pretty much.
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How about civil works, such as road building/well digging/ tree planting/ educators about farming... Instead of making war, make peace by improving the lowest class of people's living conditions!
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@RonSwanson I could not agree more with your statement...
"those people should think about an alternative career that isn't so death and destruction focused. pretty much."
Alas I know that the endocrination of young men to 'fight' is huge, and that many many people (esp in d US) "think" (or dont) that "serving your country" by joining the armed forces IS a good thing!
As this frightening document says..
"The Draft (As military service)
Few efforts of human behavior modification are more remarkable or more effective than that of the socio-military institution known as the draft. A primary purpose of a draft or other such institution is to instill, by intimidation, in the young males of a society the uncritical conviction that the government is omnipotent. He is soon taught that a prayer is slow to reverse what a bullet can do in an instant. Thus, a man trained in a religious environment for eighteen years of his life can, by this instrument of the government, be broken down, be purged of his fantasies and delusions in a matter of mere months. Once that conviction is instilled, all else becomes easy to instill.
Even more interesting is the process by which a young man's parents, who purportedly love him, can be induced to send him off to war to his death. Although the scope of this work will not allow this matter to be expanded in full detail, nevertheless, a coarse overview will be possible and can serve to reveal those factors which must be included in some numerical form in a computer analysis of social and war systems.
We begin with a tentative definition of the draft.
The draft (selective service, etc.) is an institution of compulsory collective sacrifice and slavery, devised by the middle-aged and elderly for the purpose of pressing the young into doing the public dirty work. It further serves to make the youth as guilty as the elders, thus making criticism of the elders by the youth less likely (Generational Stabilizer). It is marketed and and sold to the public under the label of "patriotic = national" service.
Once a candid economic definition of the draft is achieved, that definition is used to outline the boundaries of a structure called a Human Value System, which in turn is translated into the terms of game theory. The value of such a slave laborer is given in a Table of Human Values, a table broken down into categories by intellect, experience, post-service job demand, etc.
Some of these categories are ordinary and can be tentatively evaluated in terms of the value of certain jobs for which a known fee exists. Some jobs are harder to value because they are unique to the demands of social subversion, for an extreme example: the value of a mother's instruction to her daughter, causing that daughter to put certain behavioral demands upon a future husband ten or fifteen years hence; thus, by suppressing his resistance to a perversion of a government, making it easier for a banking cartel to buy the State of New York in, say, twenty years.
Such a problem leans heavily upon the observations and data of wartime espionage and many types of psychological testing. But crude mathematical models (algorithms, etc.) can be devised, if not to predict, at least to predeterminate these events with maximum certainty. What does not exist by natural cooperation is thus enhanced by calculated compulsion. Human beings are machines, levers which may be grasped and turned, and there is little real difference between automating a society and automating a shoe factory.
These derived values are variable. (It is necessary to use a current Table of Human Values for computer analysis.) These values are given in true measure rather than U.S. dollars, since the latter is unstable, being presently inflated beyond the production of national goods and services so as to give the economy a false kinetic energy ("paper" inductance).
The silver value is stable, it being possible to buy the same amount with a gram of silver today as it could be bought in 1920. Human value measured in silver units changes slightly due to changes in production technology.
Enforcement
Factor I
As in every social system approach, stability is achieved only by understanding and accounting for human nature (action/reaction patterns). A failure to do so can be, and usually is, disastrous.
As in other human social schemes, one form or another of intimidation (or incentive) is essential to the success of the draft. Physical principles of action and reaction must be applied to both internal and external subsystems.
To secure the draft, individual brainwashing/programming and both the family unit and the peer group must be engaged and brought under control.
Factor II - Father
The man of the household must be housebroken to ensure that junior will grow up with the right social training and attitudes. The advertising media, etc., are engaged to see to it that father-to-be is pussy-whipped before or by the time he is married. He is taught that he either conforms to the social notch cut out for him or his sex life will be hobbled and his tender companionship will be zero. He is made to see that women demand security more than logical, principled, or honorable behavior.
By the time his son must go to war, father (with jelly for a backbone) will slam a gun into junior's hand before father will risk the censure of his peers, or make a hypocrite of himself by crossing the investment he has in his own personal opinion or self-esteem. Junior will go to war or father will be embarrassed. So junior will go to war, the true purpose not withstanding.
Factor III - Mother
The female element of human society is ruled by emotion first and logic second. In the battle between logic and imagination, imagination always wins, fantasy prevails, maternal instinct dominates so that the child comes first and the future comes second. A woman with a newborn baby is too starry-eyed to see a wealthy man's cannon fodder or a cheap source of slave labor. A woman must, however, be conditioned to accept the transition to "reality" when it comes, or sooner.
As the transition becomes more difficult to manage, the family unit must be carefully disintegrated, and state-controlled public education and state-operated child-care centers must be become more common and legally enforced so as to begin the detachment of the child from the mother and father at an earlier age. Inoculation of behavioral drugs [Ritalin] can speed the transition for the child (mandatory). Caution: A woman's impulsive anger can override her fear. An irate woman's power must never be underestimated, and her power over a pussy-whipped husband must likewise never be underestimated. It got women the vote in 1920.
Factor IV - Junior
The emotional pressure for self-preservation during the time of war and the self-serving attitude of the common herd that have an option to avoid the battlefield - if junior can be persuaded to go - is all of the pressure finally necessary to propel Johnny off to war. Their quiet blackmailings of him are the threats: "No sacrifice, no friends; no glory, no girlfriends."
Factor V - Sister
And what about junior's sister? She is given all the good things of life by her father, and taught to expect the same from her future husband regardless of the price.
Factor VI - Cattle
Those who will not use their brains are no better off than those who have no brains, and so this mindless school of jelly-fish, father, mother, son, and daughter, become useful beasts of burden or trainers of the same. "
thanks for your replies
m m m motek
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well when the private firms who get government contracts can't provide the workers they promise.. call the army! made london 2012 a roaring success. or they could do the work of volunteers/aid workers in dangerous third world countries which they do a bit of already, creating infrastructure and stuff like that but then what'd happen to all those middle class gap year dickheads? how would they get to feel like they 'made a difference' whilst unwittingly damaging the communities they believe they are helping?
if we want to divert resources to more worthwhile causes we should probably stop funding the military beyond self preservation and have a good think about where money could be better spent which realistically is just about anywhere.
so i think my answer is rather than find an alternative use for armed forces, those people should think about an alternative career that isn't so death and destruction focused. pretty much.
Sometimes people join up not because they are death and destruction focused, but because they lack skills which society values. The armed forces provides an easy way out. You get fed, taught a particular skill set, which hopefully can be transferred to civilian life after you quit. The typical stereotype of dumb grunts has to have an origin to it like all other stereotypes do, and the reason I gave is partially why. No doubt some people are deeply patriotic and feel the need to kill for their country, or to just find an excuse to kill (in a state sanctioned manner), but not everyone of them is like that. Other times they have nowhere else to go or escape from an abusive home. Their grades may not be too good, or at least not good enough to afford a scholarship. Serving a few years in return for essentially free tuition. Of course, one can run cocaine to Miami and retire in less than a year, but they feel joining up is less risk.
Human history is littered with wars and such, most of them instigated by the selfish few. Tell the citizens that they are under attack and they will unite under the country's flag. But to have the ability to repel them is a necessary evil too, and therefore even neutral countries do maintain a self defence force of reasonable size (I understand the term "reasonable" is subjective) I presume you are talking about the US, and I do agree that it is overly bloated. With the advent of ICBMs that are accurate and have multiple sizable payloads, maintaining a carrier fleet can be argued as a pointless cause. (ICBMs can have non nuclear payload) Also bear in mind that it is a source of income for the government of non-first-world countries like Pakistan and India, where they provide units for peacekeeping purposes, where rules of engagement state that they can only return fire, but are not allowed to shoot first. Granted the concept of the UN and peacekeeping is itself debatable but no doubt there is some limited success to the method. Does this classify as humanitarian since their goal is to stop killing of civilians, who are the most affected in any conflicts? Would the Balkans conflict have fizzled out? Maybe. Would letting them fight it out be preferable to intervening? That depends entirely on your point of view. Regardless, one has to remember this: there is only power if it can be backed up by physical force. Without it, no one gives a damn. So naturally everyone wants to hold the biggest stick, as it allows them to dictate foreign policy, political and trade relationships etc. As for brain washing it could be argued that religion is a similar concept, the simplest form being "my god is better than your god therefore I kill you" type of thing. Though most religions aim for peace, they were all involved in wars at one time or another. (eg Crusades)
To properly address this issue of disarmament and it's personnel directed towards humanitarian activities it necessitates a more stable environment to do so, where detente and entente are the main features. Just like in the Cold War, if both sides feel secure, there will less likely be an arms race and expanding size of forces (which eventually involves conscription - something which I see you are vehemently against - but bear in mind it is the only option for countries of small populations). Humanitarian aid is just another bargaining chip, where building bridges and feeding your people enable us to have exclusive rights to mining ore, (in addition to favourable view by others) for example (although it may not be used as such). The armed forces are just an alternative means of playing politics on the world stage to get what you want.
Funding is another issue. To be adequately funded is a delicate balancing act, something which cannot be done by an excessively large government due to bureaucratic inefficiencies. You wouldn't want them to be underfunded such that when you do need them, they don't have the gear or training to fight. Even if you did fund the branches adequately, there is the internal scrambling for it that causes money to be spent where it is not needed, and lack of funding where it is needed. Then you have a bunch of alphabet agencies justifying their own existence due to invisible threats. Then there's some of the government contracts that are questionable at best, like the $120 hammer or $400 toiletseat. Essentially the government can maintain the same capability without severe austerity measures by reducing wastage, but no one is going to do that. Even if you created a whole department of Humanitarian Work that is parallel to the armed forces minus weapons, it wouldn't be cost efficient, purely due to the government not being aggressive enough to fire workers of inadequate performance. Cost wise it would probably be more efficient to contract out the humanitarian work (bridge building etc) to a company, where the completion of it to required standards is more easily monitored and audited.
Ultimately the armed forces serve a very important role that cannot be substituted or replaced, and like police or lawyers, some view them as bad/evil until they need one because they were attacked first and acted in defence. Wars are declared but it is the young that die, the civilians that suffer. It is a necessary evil to maintain the delicate balance of power in the world we live in, much like wildlife numbers that rise and fall due to predation. The easiest way to control people is through fear. The power of fear cannot be understated. It allows a form of social cohesion. Until easier or more direct methods are implemented, it is here to stay. Remove that, and it all comes down like a house of cards. Instead of using the armed forces for humanitarian reasons like using a wrench to hammer in a nail, use the correct tools for the work required. The politicians and owners of companies in defence sectors are merely taking advantage of people's fears. You too can have a slice of the pie if you shake the right hands and scratch the right backs. Or you can just let them fight over it while you watch from the sidelines. :)
TLDR: Inefficient big government, fear, money are reasons your noble idea won't work
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hey tits have a look at this document and let it blow your mind
A think tank was set up after WW2 funded by the Rockefellor commission to evaluate a method of financial control of . . . of, the World! IMO it is the scariest document I have ever seen!!! It's called "Silent Weapons for Quiet wars, I had a big rave about it over in the religion thread and someone has created a thread on the topic itself now coz they find it 'intriguing' ha ha! It's mind blowing but at the same time strangely reassuring to know that the world REALLY WAS fucked up by a handful of extremely rich people in their attempt at trying to achieve control over the poulation of the US and then everyone else
War is a tool they have to reacquire their assets, for when a person dies or runs away the banks usually get to keep what the person left, as 'most' people have a 'mortgage' (translates as 'deaths measure/terms! mort = death - gage = measure) which ties them to a 'financial institution' pretty much forever. Once a person becoomes a 'homeowner' they rarely stop unless forced in some way or they die, get locked up, sick or injured that they can no longer pay and the property gets repossesed, people often dont recover financially from a severe illness and bankruptcy inducing bills.
This document was written by a sociopath for sociopaths,.....e.g. this is in the second paragraph...
"The solution of today's problems requires an approach which is ruthlessly candid, with no agonizing over religious, moral or cultural values.
You have qualified for this project because of your ability to look at human society with cold objectivity, and yet analyze and discuss your observations and conclusions with others of similar intellectual capacity without the loss of discretion or humility. Such virtues are exercised in your own best interest. Do not deviate from them. "
woot!?! yeah this is one frightening read that I wish everyone would read and discuss, now that would be extraordinary, a truly world changing event!
"Descriptive Introduction of the Silent Weapon
Everything that is expected from an ordinary weapon is expected from a silent weapon by its creators, but only in its own manner of functioning.
It shoots situations, instead of bullets; propelled by data processing, instead of chemical reaction (explosion); originating from bits of data, instead of grains of gunpowder; from a computer, instead of a gun; operated by a computer programmer, instead of a marksman; under the orders of a banking magnate, instead of a military general.
It makes no obvious explosive noises, causes no obvious physical or mental injuries, and does not obviously interfere with anyone's daily social life.
Yet it makes an unmistakable "noise," causes unmistakable physical and mental damage, and unmistakably interferes with the daily social life, i.e., unmistakable to a trained observer, one who knows what to look for.
The public cannot comprehend this weapon, and therefore cannot believe that they are being attacked and subdued by a weapon.
The public might instinctively feel that something is wrong, but that is because of the technical nature of the silent weapon, they cannot express their feeling in a rational way, or handle the problem with intelligence. Therefore, they do not know how to cry for help, and do not know how to associate with others to defend themselves against it.
When a silent weapon is applied gradually, the public adjusts/adapts to its presence and learns to tolerate its encroachment on their lives until the pressure (psychological via economic) becomes too great and they crack up.
Therefore, the silent weapon is a type of biological warfare. It attacks the vitality, options, and mobility of the individuals of a society by knowing, understanding, manipulating, and attacking their sources of natural and social energy, and their physical, mental, and emotional strengths and weaknesses. "
And It includes gems like these, and this is <1% of what there, it will take you a few hours to read, and a few reading to fully comprehend it's message and realize it's value!
"Summary
The people hire the politicians so that the people can:
obtain security without managing it.
obtain action without thinking about it.
inflict theft, injury, and death upon others without having to contemplate either life or death.
avoid responsibility for their own intentions.
obtain the benefits of reality and science without exerting themselves in the discipline of facing or learning either of these things.
They give the politicians the power to create and manage a war machine to:
provide for the survival of the nation/womb.
prevent encroachment of anything upon the nation/womb.
destroy the enemy who threatens the nation/womb.
destroy those citizens of their own country who do not conform for the sake of stability of the nation/womb.
Politicians hold many quasi-military jobs, the lowest being the police which are soldiers, the attorneys and C.P.A.s next who are spies and saboteurs (licensed), and the judges who shout orders and run the closed union military shop for whatever the market will bear. The generals are industrialists. The "presidential" level of commander-in-chief is shared by the international bankers. The people know that they have created this farce and financed it with their own taxes (consent), but they would rather knuckle under than be the hypocrite.
Thus, a nation becomes divided into two very distinct parts, a docile sub-nation [great silent majority] and a political sub-nation. The political sub-nation remains attached to the docile sub-nation, tolerates it, and leaches its substance until it grows strong enough to detach itself and then devour its parent. "
check it out! Possibly THE most important document you could know about!
much love m m m motek x
http://land.netonecom.net/tlp/ref/sw4qw/