Silk Road forums

Discussion => Legal => Topic started by: wrestler04 on September 06, 2013, 08:43 pm

Title: Need legal advice about master minds items
Post by: wrestler04 on September 06, 2013, 08:43 pm
So I bought some American silver eagle from him and I sold it on Craigslist. The guy called me later that day and told me every single one was fake and that he wanted his money back. Now I only sold em for $235 and thinking fuck it and just ignoring his calls and shit. I feel that no one would go through the trouble to track me down for $235. He was definitely pissed when he called and he was talking about how it's a federal offense. Should I just give him his money back or would I be ok just ignoring him and avoiding him?
Title: Re: Need legal advice about master minds items
Post by: eddiethegun on September 06, 2013, 10:11 pm
You just sold counterfeit US currency on the clearweb... I would give the guy a refund and cut your losses. Otherwise expect a visit from some local Secret Service agents.
Title: Re: Need legal advice about master minds items
Post by: ~o~WaterWalker~o~ on September 06, 2013, 10:20 pm
silver eagles may indeed still be called official currency but if it was just regular bullion it would be a different beast.

whole other level of hurt when it is official currency
Title: Re: Need legal advice about master minds items
Post by: PinnacleGoods on September 07, 2013, 01:20 am
You should have tested them before selling them... It is not hard to spot a fake if you pay attention and have a single known real coin (not hard to get, just use a reputable seller, I would go with a clearnet source like APMEX.

There are tons of fakes out there of many common silver and gold rounds and bars.  On eBay people sell large sheets of fakes that are labeled as fakes, but they still get purchased and sold on to others - most people who find out they bought fakes try to sell them, thinking that it's not a problem because they bought them for that amount too, so they are the victim.

This page has a pretty good guide on avoiding fakes using tests you can perform at home with little or no tools: http://www.silverbarter.com/avoid_counterfeits.html

The tool most relied on to tell without leaving room for doubt if a coin is a fake is a fisch, but they are not cheap, and most fakes can be found with easier tests like weighing them and measuring their dimensions and looking at the details in the coins, or putting the coin next to a magnet.   It was pretty irresponsible and inconsiderate to buy those items and then turn around and sell them without confirming their legitimacy.  If you bought 'cocaine' on here and got a random white powder, and then decided to sell it as cocaine without testing it in one way or another you would be committing a similarly immoral act, but at least you wouldn't be involved in counterfeiting (bullion coin or not, silver eagles are definitely legal tender in the USA)

Expect Silver Eagles to always sell for at least $2-5 over spot, probably closer to $5-10 many places.  Many people pay way too high a premium for silver eagles, they are not particularly attractive coins, they have large mintage figures, and because they are so boring in appearance, and are and commonly bought and sold by many novices they are easy to counterfeit and sell without the buyer, or the person they sell to, confirming if the coins are authentic or not.

Most people who have half an idea what they are doing with selling silver or gold coins will list pertinent details in the sale listing, including the year minted, mint figures (if they know them), country of origin, mint of origin, mint mark, what kind of container they come in (nothing, plastic flips, hard plastic capsules, or raw (uncertified / graded) and without anything protecting it from the air.  Many numismatists will mark the containers they put the coins they have for sale with their grading and price estimates, in addition to the above weight, height, and circumference of the coin, among other identifying details.

If someone has silver coins for sale, make sure the coins do not look too perfect or are on sale for too cheap, especially if they are more than a few years old and are sealed in some funny looking plastic quilt like thing. Silver does tarnish somewhat over time even when stored in mostly airtight containers, so look for slight tarnishing as a sign of authenticity.  Look for sharpness of image / a lack of definition, because real silver eagles (and most all silver coins) are pressed, while many fakes are poured into molds just like ingots, so many fakes will have little bubbles trapped in them or will have design elements that are rounded down whereas an authentic coin's elements would be squares or triangles or something like that.

I am guessing you are talking about a lot of 10 x 1oz "silver eagles", which are legal tender in the USA.  Just another reason to not buy silver eagles, many other mints make much nicer coins which can be had for less and sold for more...

I suggest being honest with the guy who bought them, explain that you are new to buying silver, and you thought they were real.  I might even call the police on myself as a precaution on this one and explain that you made an honest mistake and want to return the money to the seller, because police will most likely not do anything if you say '" am sorry officer I bought those coins that I thought were real on eBay. it's the first time I tried to buy silver, I can't believe this happened to me!"  Then take the issue up with SR Staff  if they are fakes.  I would ask the guy who bought the fakes from you to meet you at a coin store near you to make things right.  Most people we know who have interest in precious metals do not want anything to do with the police, so you have that working for you as far as avoiding Secret Service.  Regardless I would make right by that guy, or expect to get stung even worse at some point in the future, karma is a bitch.


Title: Re: Need legal advice about master minds items
Post by: TA on September 08, 2013, 11:26 pm
Id give him his money back. Act pissed off like you got ripped off cause you didnt know either. Easy to deny that. Just like millions of people walking around with fake $100's in their pocket that dont even know it. Stick to bullion bars. Not worth getting into trouble over a couple hundred bucks.
Title: Re: Need legal advice about master minds items
Post by: National Direct on September 09, 2013, 02:43 am
All your replies are spot on. A few hundred bucks wouldn't even have me phased in that situation. Live and learn. Don't be hard on yourself, but take your due revenge if the supplier was elusive after you complain, his douchebag behaviour should be detailed and exagerated to prevent other victims, and to make you feel good about destroying a reputation that probably will kill 10x your mentioned purchase in revenue.
Title: Re: Need legal advice about master minds items
Post by: Shaggy Shaman on September 11, 2013, 08:49 pm
I'm not defending Mastermind Designs or anything, but I do feel I should say that the OP didn't buy the coins thinking they were real. I've looked at Mastermind Design's listings and he sells counterfeits that are meant to be sold-on in the RW for profit. He details how to move them and the risks.

So, its not like the OP got scammed or anything, he knowingly sold the fake coins to a buyer that figured out they were fake.

I thought about getting one of his Morgan Dollars and trying for a 300% profit like he advertises is possible, but I'm not comfortable defrauding regular working folk. I'll stick to selling drugs as it doesn't bother my conscience, LOL!

SS
Title: Re: Need legal advice about master minds items
Post by: TA on September 12, 2013, 03:32 am
Wrestler Im trying to pm you but it says your user name dosent exist. Email me        BM-2D8gw1qfboM7uvGYMBRts7dEm4FNr1z3tm@bitmessage.ch


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Title: Re: Need legal advice about master minds items
Post by: dontek on September 13, 2013, 01:07 pm
Like the above mentioned,  play dumb and the victim as well.

For future reference (not that I condone it) but use a burner phone and post the ads using a burner email address from a VPN or public wifi spot. From the sounds of it, you exposed your cellphone number. I assume this because if you had used a burner phone/email you would just ignore him and be on to your next scam.