Silk Road forums
Discussion => Off topic => Topic started by: HighAllDay96 on December 13, 2012, 01:42 am
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I've always heard that Americans are fat and lazy but I'm very curious what does the rest of the world actually think of us?
HighAllDay96
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I've always heard that Americans are fat and lazy but I'm very curious what does the rest of the world actually think of us?
HighAllDay96
When I backpacked around Europe a few years ago, this was one of the questions on my mind. I stayed with locals pretty much everywhere I went, so I think I got a sense of what actual people think. Pretty much the consistent message I got (people all over Europe would say pretty much the same thing, using very similar language, which I thought was interesting), was that they like Americans just fine, they just don't like some of the policies of our government (back lash from the Bush years tbh). The whole "Americans are fat, lazy, and or stupid" line is more of a way they'll needle you, like if me and you were fans of opposing sports teams, which would give us something to good-naturedly trash talk each other about.
I will say, if you find these kinds of questions of real interest to you, you should definitely try to get a longish (1-2 month) international trip under your belt. Couchsurf. After I had time to process all the experiences I got from my trip, it transformed my understanding of what it means to be American, what America is really like, just added a great deal of clarity to my understanding of my country.
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Thank you very much for posting your short story. It was actually very interesting. I am curious though how did it make you better understand what it means to be an American? I'd like to find that out for myself too.
HighAllDay96
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Thank you very much for posting your short story. It was actually very interesting. I am curious though how did it make you better understand what it means to be an American? I'd like to find that out for myself too.
HighAllDay96
Well, everybody's going to have some idea about answers to these types of questions, and they'll be based on that person's personal experience of talking to people, observing how things work in their country, and ESPECIALLY from the media, how the media portrays their country. This will give you some notion of what your country is really about, and for most people who won't ever travel internationally, it's all they'll ever have to go on. But until you actually immerse yourself in other cultures, you just won't have the data points necessary to have a clear, vivid, and accurate perspective about these topics.
Like for instance, living in America, you'd certainly hear the refrain about how influential America is on the world, often in the context of military or geo-political matters, or culturally like when you see international box office numbers for major Hollywood movies. But you get a view of a whole other side of it when, in city after city, country after country, you see McDonalds, KCF, Subway, Burger King, Starbucks etc etc franchises every couple of blocks. When you see how prevalent the English language is (obviously the UK is influential there, but still). One of my favorite stories on this subject came from a guy I was hanging out with in Budapest (a friend of my host there, actually). Hungary was under Soviet rule until the fall of the USSR in the late 80's, and he told me how that first Thanksgiving after they gained their independence was around the time his family first gained access to Western culture, and that the first thing they watched was the soap opera Dallas. He said his grandparents still talk about that first experience of watching this American soap opera, and how it's indelibly linked in their minds to the gaining of their freedom as a country. Obviously, it's not about how great American culture or soaps are! It was just a symbol of what it meant to them to no longer be living under Soviet rule. It might seem inconsequential, but it was a neat perspective to get, something that's stuck with me. And it's the kind of thing you just can't get unless you get out there and talk to random people in different countries.
One thing that I personally learned was how cynical I had become about America's so called "moral authority" in the world. My trip occurred in that hang over period following the Bush years, so my cynicism about this subject had reach cosmic proportions, but it was interesting to me that I quite often came across people who expressed an earnest disappointment that America wasn't meeting this standard they had for my country. I believe this was basically good will that had been built up during the WWII and post-WWII era, but it was interesting to see that it this idea of an American 'moral authority' was more real to some of these people than it was to me!
In general though, I'd say that getting these outside perspectives, first hand, gave me the evidence I needed to better approximate accurate perspectives about what America really is. I'm an Atheist living in a somewhat conservative part of the country, but until my trip I didn't fully understand just how religious and conservative this country is. I felt that, but didn't understand it like I feel I do now. It also elucidated for me just how bull shit all the political gridlock is, how easy it should be to get things done if it wasn't for the lunatic obstructionist utterly cynical and corrupt Republican party. fwiw, a lot of these observations were fully born out by the rise of the "tea party," the Republicans tanking our credit rating, and the reprehensible racist, bigoted circus that was the Republican primary and national election fiasco. It reaffirmed for me the accuracy of my Progressive outlook. So it did a lot for me, not all of which I can easily put into words.
tl;dr it did A LOT! ;)
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Alright that makes it more clear. My family was never one to be able to afford all those cool trips like it seems everyone else's family I know can. However, for college next year I have given a lot of thought in to studying abroad. I think it'd be a great experience to learn more about another culture and while doing so uncover more about my own.
HighAllDay96
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Here's a simple metaphorical translation.
Visiting another country will help you understand your own like slipping into somebody else's consciousness would help you understand yourself.
To further boil it down, empiricism ftw. 8)
Alright that makes it more clear. My family was never one to be able to afford all those cool trips like it seems everyone else's family I know can. However, for college next year I have given a lot of thought in to studying abroad. I think it'd be a great experience to learn more about another culture and while doing so uncover more about my own.
HighAllDay96
Studying abroad is an excellent idea. I bet you're the kind of person that would get a ton out of it. In some ways, immersing yourself in one culture for ~6 months is even better than getting a week or so in a bunch of different countries. And of course, you'd be able to make short weekend trips to other countries when time and finances allow. But I will say that the cost of travel, while not insignificant, is also not necessarily prohibitive for even the tighter budgets. By finding deals on plane tickets, getting into couchsurfing so you have no lodging costs, getting comfortable with the idea of hitchhiking, and traveling in cheap parts of the globe like eastern Europe, South America, or SEA, it's very possible to have a long and rewarding trip on a shoe string budget. :)
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I'm still amazed about how willing people are to help you on here. It's honestly a great thing and it's the main thing that keeps me coming back. I was considering studying abroad, but after this thread, I am now seriously considering it so thanks guys. (:
HighAllDay96
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Here's a simple metaphorical translation.
Visiting another country will help you understand your own like slipping into somebody else's consciousness would help you understand yourself.
+1
I am not concerned so much as to what people abroad think, of me or my country, when i go there moreover it's how i present myself when i do.
i would like to think that i am a: nice. decent, honest, fun loving person that treats others as i would like to be treated.
i even get along with the french lol :P
after all no one can speak for the the douchebags in there own country - they can only make a good or bad impression.
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All this talk about "the Bush years", but did his successor change anything (except going even further in the bad directions)?
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All this talk about "the Bush years", but did his successor change anything (except going even further in the bad directions)?
Srsly? There are plenty of criticisms one could level at Obama (did not take the chance to pass significant reform of Wallstreet and the big banks when he had the chance, could not follow through in closing Guantanamo, and certainly others [people here will not be happy with the continued--heightened--federal push against legal cannabis]). But my only real disappointment is that he's just not a true progressive. He's a centrist Democrat. But that's just who he is, so what can you do. But the fact of the matter (and history bares this out) is that government just runs better when the people who are running it like government. And that's the Democrats. They don't have a pathological hatred of government like the present day Republicans do (see Mitch McConnell, "I don't want to destroy government, I just want to shrink it down so it's small enough that I can drown it in a bathtub.").
On the other hand Bush. Lied the country into a completely unjust war, costing a trillion plus dollars, thousands of American lives, and 200,000+ Iraqi lives. Pushed through a massive tax cut for the wealthy (DURING TWO WARS), and a unpaid for prescription drug plan. These three things turned the surplus the previous Democratic president had built into a massive deficit, which eventually helped create the worst fiscal situation in the US since the great depression. For the first time in American history he threw out the Geneva conventions and made torture a part of the status quo. During his administration, there were serious, REAL, abuses of power coming out seemingly every week. Politically motivated firings at the justice department, shenanigans with the appointment of judges, laying the legislative groundwork for a massive campaign of spying on US citizens, just on and on (as opposed to all the completely bull shit rightwing nutcase conspiracies lobbed at Obama: Bengazi-gate, Solindra-gate, etc etc).
I mean, if you're not an American, it's all good, no reason you should know this stuff. But if you are? And you can't tell the difference between the records of Bush vs Obama, you're either purposely not paying attention, or you're getting your information for the absolute worst possible sources available (Fox News and right wing radio).
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I mean, if you're not an American, it's all good, no reason you should know this stuff. But if you are? And you can't tell the difference between the records of Bush vs Obama, you're either purposely not paying attention, or you're getting your information for the absolute worst possible sources available (Fox News and right wing radio).
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Thanks for making those assumptions, but actually I'm a huge fan of The Young Turks (maybe a bad source in your opinion but definitely not right wing) and I spend at least an hour a day following up on American politics.
Obama isn't a centrist anywhere except in the skewed-as-hell world of DC. Look at America's polling and better yet look at the world at large and Obama is a center-righter at best, and the worst manner of spineless ball-playing establishmentarian there is. In many ways he is indeed more extreme than Bush (moving from simple warrant-less wiretapping to assassinating US citizens without a trial). He's just the head of the Washing Generals, pretending to push for centrist policies and then losing on purpose to the opposition saying "Oh, I did my best guys, but they overpowered me and would you look at that we got 'compromise' that is 90% what they wanted". When the Bush administration wanted something done they got their way, but when you ask Obama to keep 1 of his measly promises he fails and then accuses progressives of being unrealistic in expecting even a scintilla of the change he promised.
And at least with Bush you got what was on the tin, and he had an excuse. Obama isn't a retard born into wealth, he's a constitutional law professor who knows better as he tears the constitution to shreds.
Not to mention promising not to prosecute medical pot and then doing the opposite (after he himself is a confirmed (former?) heavy user).
Maybe you can argue that he's less extreme in the more important ways and that some of the tiny progressive things he did were positive, but the fact that he's a vicious wolf in sheep's clothing makes him way more despicable in my book than an even more vicious actual wolf.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hqRV5hr8w4
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Do you all ride Kangaroos in Australia?
No, do you all ride fat people in America?
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Do you all ride Kangaroos in Australia?
No, do you all ride fat people in America?
Now see if I lived in Aus I would totally ride a kangaroo everywhere.
But I'm American, so I don't care if the kangaroo doesn't like it.
[/jk]
Ballzi if I could +1 you right now for that link I would.
and if i lived in America i would probably be fat
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My personal opinion of Americans is that normal Working Class folk like myself are lovely genuine hard working people but most are very seriously dumbed down to the world around them,
Their so apolitical and clueless about their place in society they reckon their middle class, because they have food, a 50hr a wk job and a house ffs? its hilarious really, their mostly far right too, the poor and the workers should be socialists and leftists, that's inevitable ffs!?.... their anti free healthcare(a human right), anti socialist, their absolutely apolitical, they don't have a clue about politics, nil, none what so ever like, so basically their just open for more deluding and fodder for the higher classes like we saw in Iraq and Afghanistan if you ask me, unless something gives.
The other two higher classes are trash, regardless of nationality, their fucking parasites, keeping good education in the hands of the rich and financially feeding off an entire class's dependency on a wage to keep them barely alive (The Working Class) for its labour and holding ALL means of production in its hands? fuck them!
As long as the Bolivarian Revolution "The Red Tide" stays heading north its all good though!
Best of health to President Commandante Hugo Chavez too, i see hes taken ill, very sad news.
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they don't have a clue about politics, nil, none what so ever like, so basically their just open for more deluding and fodder for the higher classes like we saw in Iraq and Afghanistan if you ask me, unless something gives.
American here. You hit the nail on the head here. I can't tell you how many idiots I talk to every day that have no idea what the hell they're talking about. The one's that don't know anything and admit it aren't even the worst. Election season was pretty bad because it brings out all the people who radically support one side or the other, often without reason. They usually don't know 90% of their candidate's policies, but are in love with them and mock anyone who supports the other side. So fucking annoying.
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I can sum up something about Americans pretty simply here:
"Who are you voting for?"
"I'll be voting Republican." OR "I'll be voting Democrat."
"What is it you like about your party's candidate's platform?
"Well I'm a Republican, and he's a Republican." OR "Well, I'm a Democrat, and he's a Democrat."
Fuck, man, the two party system just gives everyone an easy out from actually contemplating the candidates.
And worse still is that the two parties control who appears at the debates so you don't even get an alternative perspective. Honestly I'd love to see a libertarian run as a republican and a green party member to run as a democrat. Most of the moronic die-hard supporters of either side will support them no matter what as long as they call themselves by the same party and no matter which sides win there might be some changes.
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In the UK I think we are generally positive about Americans. You can't really generalise too much about a whole country, there is good and bad aspects about all nations (except maybe France - that's completely shit :P I'm joking ;) ).
In the past America seemed a very inward looking country, that had no real concern for anything (or anyone) outside their borders. You'd hear Americans trotting out the same tired stereotypes about foreigners - liked the English had bad teeth and were posh, I think this was just from a lack of personal experience, not really intending to be malicious. But over the last fifteen years, with the internet explosion, it seems Americans (and everyone, really) have become much more connected. And, like now, we talk over the internet, watch each others films and TV, listen to music from different countries, and as everyone becomes more familiar with other cultures, the world becomes a smaller place (for those who speak English anyway).
Great things that I think America brings to the world; Music, Films, TV (not all by a longshot, but there's some really choice stuff), fashion, food and I really like Americas proud self belief and confidence.
Crap things from American we could do without copying; Materialism, too many ad-breaks on TV, most of your home grown sports, compensation culture, and the way some of you speak with a high pitched inflection at the end of your sentences. :)
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My personal opinion of Americans is that normal Working Class folk like myself are lovely genuine hard working people but most are very seriously dumbed down to the world around them,
Their so apolitical and clueless about their place in society they reckon their middle class, because they have food, a 50hr a wk job and a house ffs? its hilarious really, their mostly far right too, the poor and the workers should be socialists and leftists, that's inevitable ffs!?.... their anti free healthcare(a human right), anti socialist, their absolutely apolitical, they don't have a clue about politics, nil, none what so ever like, so basically their just open for more deluding and fodder for the higher classes like we saw in Iraq and Afghanistan if you ask me, unless something gives.
The other two higher classes are trash, regardless of nationality, their fucking parasites, keeping good education in the hands of the rich and financially feeding off an entire class's dependency on a wage to keep them barely alive (The Working Class) for its labour and holding ALL means of production in its hands? fuck them!
As long as the Bolivarian Revolution "The Red Tide" stays heading north its all good though!
Best of health to President Commandante Hugo Chavez too, i see hes taken ill, very sad news.
While I can't (won't) necessarily disagree with anything you've typed, I would recommend reading an essay by the British journalist Jon Ronson called Amber Waves of Green. It's included in his recent book Lost at Sea. I'd suggest that it would flesh out your perspective. Not necessarily changing, just maybe ground it a little. There's historical and cultural elements to the American experience that you don't really take account of.
Granted, I feel JUST THE SAME frustration you express, more so because as an American there are large swaths of the country I can easily get frustrated about. But to affect real change I believe you have to be 'kill your babies' (ie pet theories that 'feel' right), in favor of a more objective, nuanced, approach in which you're able to more or less dispassionately conceptualize the view point of the people you happen to deeply disagree with. Then again, that's my burden as an American trying to fight for the kind of ideals I sense in your post. Mainly I just felt you might enjoy reading the essay I recommend.
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Wow this thread I started turned in to a debate about how shitty our politics are in America. So far I've gained that the rest of our world knows us Americans for our crazy politics. I believe that's a fair conclusion so far.
Secretive
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I live in EU, not the good part of EU though.
USA is the most frequently discussed foreign country in the world I think, you export a lot of things from series/movies to fast food chains and of course military troops. My opinion on US has evolved a lot throughout the years. I was a kid during Clinton-early Bush era and my first thoughts were not positive... So many disturbing images and videos coming out from wars where US was involved accompanied by "spreading democracy and freedom" statements. It was my first realization of how ugly and wrong this world can be, a reality slap in the face. Of course the citizens were to blame, they voted for them, right? At least in my young mind where things looked pretty simple. But years passed and I started to understand better how the world works and to separate governments from people. Our government is playing the same games with the bankers disregarding people's needs and rights, the only difference is US is much more powerful and capable on manipulating the world on a bigger scale . Rednecks and dumb people exist in every country and they have a saying too but you can't label a whole nation so easily.
I think the average american is similar to the average european, there are differences in culture though, some of them significant. That's based on how you are raised and what you believe is important, priorities... for example I have a feeling that in US the right to bear arms is more important than right for free public healthcare. That (if true) shows a great difference in thinking.
However so many people all over the world have immigrated to the US and never looked back, it is always considered a good place to live and that couldn't have happened if we were so uncompromisingly different.
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...Its so important for people to travel outside of their country.Hence alot of people need an adjustment in their perspective.Ive been to alot of countries, and have been generally well recieved .But american government makes decisions based out of fear.Its this fear that they used to garner american peoples support via the televison,for their military objectives.This i don't agree with .The genereal pop tends to be ,led by these devices.
But living here has been good.I can't wait to retire though.So i can leave and go ,to another country with different culture and different drug laws...
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I've always heard that Americans are fat and lazy but I'm very curious what does the rest of the world actually think of us?
HighAllDay96
fat as fatass, stupid,lazy, unable to read and feels the whole situation, they only care themselves... GREEDY MURRICANS!!!
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Obama is a center-righter at best, and the worst manner of spineless ball-playing establishmentarian there is. In many ways he is indeed more extreme than Bush (moving from simple warrant-less wiretapping to assassinating US citizens without a trial).
...but the fact that he's a vicious wolf in sheep's clothing makes him way more despicable in my book than an even more vicious actual wolf.
anothergirl, I really like the way you think. I agree wholeheartedly with you, and to those "limousine liberals" out there, and to the well-meaning but utterly clueless black folks who would follow Obomber right off a cliff, I say open your goddamn eyes, fer chrissake!
+1 for you.
goblin
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As being a person living in Europe I find it kind of hilarious how the majority (please, don't crucify me, I'm talking only about the illiterate ones) of Americans really think, Obama and his party are democratic.
Seriously, this amuses me nearly to death.
I consider myself being a well-educated person, therefore I don't understand why the fuck "In God we trust" is written on your bank notes?
Is the American school system so bad?
Religion (especially Christianity, Islam etc.) is a means of oppression.
You don't believe me? I recommend you Bertolt Brecht's: Life of Galileo (or simply look up history).
I've also met friendly and especially literate Americans, a friend of mine would be considered being a communist, haha.
In the end, it doesn't matter if you have a two party or a "multi" party system, politicians were, are and always will be fucking goddamn cunts.
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I consider myself being a well-educated person, therefore I don't understand why the fuck "In God we trust" is written on your bank notes?
Is the American school system so bad?
Religion (especially Christianity, Islam etc.) is a means of oppression.
You don't believe me? I recommend you Bertolt Brecht's: Life of Galileo (or simply look up history).
I think the "In God We Trust" started in the 50's when we were all obsessed with fighting communism. They also then added the "under god" part in between the "one nation, indivisible" part of our pledge. Americans here are obsessive about religion. It's quite fucking annoying as an atheist. People get very pissed off if you insult it at all and its basically required to at least claim to be religious for most politicians. Many of the youth seem to be trending towards less religion/more tolerant religion though, so there's that.
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People from other countries don't respect America because it is such a young country, whereas Great Britain and China have both had empires since the dawn of time almost. So they just assume America will come and go like the Romans or more recently the small countries in the Middle East.
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yeah american people are great, one of my best friends is originally from seattle. I think us brits and americans are very similar in our cultures.
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People from other countries don't respect America because it is such a young country, whereas Great Britain and China have both had empires since the dawn of time almost. So they just assume America will come and go like the Romans or more recently the small countries in the Middle East.
Well iono how much respect China has these days if you care about human rights at all. I would think it would be more embarrassing having these issues in a country that has been around since the dawn of time. Oh I heard they are going to clamp down even harder on their intranet... wan sui censorship!
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or simply look up history...
I googled 'history' and after reading this article called 'history' for about a week I'm still only a few thousand years into the history of our planet. There was all this stuff at the start about a Big Bang and physics and other stuff I don't really understand so I skipped forward a few thousand pages. Now it's on about how the earth formed from stars, or some shit, and I've just got to the bit about oceans forming and the beginnings of life.
You said it was simple, so can you please tell me when the stuff about humans begins, so I can skip the other shit. :)
;)
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My personal opinion of Americans is that normal Working Class folk like myself are lovely genuine hard working people but most are very seriously dumbed down to the world around them,
Their so apolitical and clueless about their place in society they reckon their middle class, because they have food, a 50hr a wk job and a house ffs? its hilarious really, their mostly far right too, the poor and the workers should be socialists and leftists, that's inevitable ffs!?.... their anti free healthcare(a human right), anti socialist, their absolutely apolitical, they don't have a clue about politics, nil, none what so ever like, so basically their just open for more deluding and fodder for the higher classes like we saw in Iraq and Afghanistan if you ask me, u
nless something gives.
I agree with you. I'm a city girl, but currently I live in a very blue collar area and many of the hardcore conservatives (teabaggers, too) I know are either farmers receiving government subsidies or non-union, back-breaking labor workers who work for pennies 60+ hours/week. It's a different mentality around here.
I've done some traveling. I think the feelings change depending who you're talking to... I'll go out on limb here and say middle easterners probably think Americans are intrusive. Mexicans like and appreciate us. I think Canadians feel sorry for us.
I'm an atheist and I agree w pp who said politicians have to claim a religion to get in office. It annoys the fecking shit out of me! And these "keep christ in christmas" freaks are on my last nerve.
Also, I'm pretty sure President Obama is an atheist.