Silk Road forums

Discussion => Silk Road discussion => Topic started by: yogsmythe on October 22, 2011, 06:06 am

Title: Should SR Ban Firearms & Explosives?
Post by: yogsmythe on October 22, 2011, 06:06 am
I have been considering starting a poll like this for a while. So here goes.

First let me make it clear that I am all for people using their free will to own firearms for protection and/or recreational value. What I do however have a problem with, is SR allowing the sale of firearms and especially explosives ILLEGALLY. Anyone who is wanting to buy a gun without going through the legal channels, imo, is up-to no good, and I mean in a way that can result in the harm of others. And I have no idea what anyone would be doing with explosives. Can you imagine the public outcry, when LE/Politicians start throwing words like "Illegal Firearms, Weapons, Explosives and Cyanide" around to rally up the public against SR as a interest of national security and the war on terror.....as aposed to "People are buying drugs over the internet" (which imo a lot of people would welcome, as it removes it from their street corners etc).

IMHO. There is a line to be drawn with everything in life. There is a happy medium for everything. It doesnt just have to be a case of its all ok or nothing is. Id rather send a message to the public, that this site is run in a responsible manner, allowing individuals to use their free will to alter their state of conciousness as they wish, all the while removing the drug trade from public spaces, and does not condone or support individuals looking to harm others with unregistered and untraceable deadly weapons and explosives.

Im sure this will start a big debate, but I would like to see what the general consensus is here regarding this matter. You could argue that some of these drugs on here could potentially be used to kill people via spiking their food or drink and causing overdose. But the same argument could be made about strangling someone with a piece of rope bought from the hardware store.

Like I said, there is a line imo, and it needs to be drawn.
Title: Re: Firearms & Explosives
Post by: yogsmythe on October 23, 2011, 05:13 am
BUMP

Added new poll option.
Title: Re: Should SR Ban Firearms & Explosives?
Post by: deniedwings on October 23, 2011, 05:45 am
This had been discussed a lot on these forums.  I just dont see the point.  If you are in country where its easy to buy a gun why buy one here - if you are in a country where its not easy to buy a gun then the mail is not a good way to get it into the country. 

I just think its going to be very scammy, full of shifty people and its only going to encourage LE to crackdown on SR.
Title: Re: Should SR Ban Firearms & Explosives?
Post by: yogsmythe on October 23, 2011, 10:49 am
Im glad to see theres some people here with a similar view towards this. Was expecting a massive backlash and "Fuck the system, down with the Po-Po" angry teenager attitude. Would love to see this community develop and sustain itself, and at the same time show LE, Politicians & the general public, that there is a strong sense of moral and consideration towards peoples lives and their well-being. That, for the most part, the people here are mature and considerate, and are simply looking for a safer and more private way to excersise their right of free will to alter their state of conciousness if they so wish.

This might sound rediculous, but I truly believe, that it is possible that if this place is conducted in a mature and considerate attitude, it could be the nail in the coffin on the already 6-feet under "war" on drugs. If, however, it is run in a "fuk the system im hardcore and anything illegal goes mofo" kind of attitude, it WILL fail. It could fail even if it is run the way I believe it should be, but at least it would have been given a real-world chance.

The minute LE and Politicians start throwing words like explosives, weapons, terrorism, national security around, 99.99% of the public will rally behind them to put in place draconian style measures to "fight the war of terrorism.........and drugs"  ::)

Wish more people would cast a vote and share opinions on this, as I really do believe drawing a line and making a clear moral stance, even on a website like this, is the smart, mature thing to do to at least give this site, or this model, a much better chance at survival, and in the long run, proving that the government cannot control peoples desire to experience altered states of conciousness and try new things.

Or, we can give them all teh ammo in the world to clump us in with all the other threats towards national security and innocent bystanders safety, to impose more draconian laws and legislations.
Title: Re: Should SR Ban Firearms & Explosives?
Post by: infamousryan on October 24, 2011, 04:45 am
I would like to give a answer, in explanation, but, in a simple conclusion i would just have to say, yes they should be banned. my brain just says it would be a good decision.
Title: Re: Should SR Ban Firearms & Explosives?
Post by: as66 on October 24, 2011, 06:53 am
"Anyone who is wanting to buy a gun without going through the legal channels, imo, is up-to no good"

Strange, my unlicenced firearm hasn't harmed anybody and it never crossed my mind to use it as an offensive weapon.

Maybe they are up to "no good", or maybe they believe in the human right to bear arms, but live under restrictive government rule? You're from Australia? Me too. Do you know what it takes to get a gun "through the legal channels"? Obviously not, as you seem to be under the impression that it's a trival matter to obtain a firearm licence here. Self-defense or desire to own is not considered a legitimate reason to own firearms in Australia. And don't give me BS about "real men fight with their fists". Furthermore it gives the police the legal right to search your home (or other place of storage) without a warrant.

SR is a FREE market, not just another drug vendor community. If explosives and firearms would "draw more attention", what does it matter. The drugs alone would have SR taken out by LE, if they were able to. And if SR isn't secure enough to sell weapons, then you shouldn't be selling drugs here either.
Title: Re: Should SR Ban Firearms & Explosives?
Post by: cactusboy on October 24, 2011, 07:31 am
Good points, I am an Ozzy too, Fuck the Australian police Fuck the system all that.
And it is just about impossible to get a gun in Australia I know.
I don't mind revolutionaries having guns. And valid point that if SR is not secure enough to buy weapons then we should not risk buying drugs either.
But may I say that the type of people on this site seem to be very well adjusted, sensible human beings.
I think this is the place to take a stand, anything goes on SR but what do we want in this market place.
I for one are for a world without stupid laws about drugs.
But I have trouble accepting that every gangster want-to-be should have guns.
Just my opinion but I don't mind if my teenage sister tries some xtc she has bought from SR, but I don't like the idea that any kid with some computer skills could get themselves a gun or plastic explosives.

As I stated before FUCK THE SYSTEM.
Title: Re: Should SR Ban Firearms & Explosives?
Post by: th3rd on October 24, 2011, 07:47 am
I think that SR is fine the way it is and who cares if people sell firearms or explosives?

Yes you can say that someone will use a gun to shoot a school bus full of nuns or use explosives to blow up a zoo full of penguins but that goes with anything someone could give someone an over dosage of a specific drug or frame them I mean come on anything is possible but their are plenty of positive reasons to sell these and hey if there's a demand for it why not.

I mean say I turned 18 and I want to purchase a hand gun but I'm in the USA so I can't I have to wait till I'm 21 well I'd gladly purchase a handgun from SR then just for my general protection in case a crack head breaks into my house in which case I guess it wouldn't do me any good since it's illegally owned but hey at least I didn't get murdered by a crack head.

As for explosives they could be used for low budget films or for simply red necks with to much open space.
Title: Re: Should SR Ban Firearms & Explosives?
Post by: 16bitgirl on October 24, 2011, 08:05 am
I know that to LE it doesn't matter much if SR sells only drugs, or drugs and guns, but I think the perception of the general public is important here. The tide of public opinion is slowly, slowly turning against drug prohibition, and it will help if the public sees our community draw a line between responsible adults, who are technically "criminals" only for introducing our substances of choice to our own bodies (and enabling others to do so), and potential real criminals, who may be buying guns and explosives for Nefarious Purposes™. Now, I do get that there may be legitimate reasons to own a gun, and that not every illegitimate gun buyer is going to use them for criminal purposes - I come from a country where private gun ownership is illegal, though that has served to reduce gun crime here - but the general public may not see it that way, and if SR does get taken down by LE eventually, it'd far better serve the cause of cognitive freedom to be taken down as a sort of "martyr" than as "a potential weapons source for terrorists and drug barons".

Even if guns don't get taken down, explosives really should be. I mean yes, there's some possible legitimate reasons for people to own guns, but explosives? Really? That hardly helps our image, and while a previous poster mentioned low budget movies or people who just want to harmlessly blow up stuff for fun, that's starting to stretch credibility compared to the reasons for buying guns. Budget movies and bomb hobbyists can generally buy their own explosives through legitimate channels, or make them themselves. And yes, drugs can be used to spike someone's drink or give them a fatal overdose, but that's not what drugs were made for - drugs were made to get people high, guns were made to kill or injure people, and explosives were made to blow things up, intention matters a lot to public perception. You can probably kill someone with a hammer as easily as with a knife, but it's far easier to get the pubic to support knife bans than hammer bans, because hammers are intended for hammering nails rather than people.
Title: Re: Should SR Ban Firearms & Explosives?
Post by: CuriousGeorge2 on February 09, 2012, 06:00 am
Not sure if you're from US or not. The framers of the Constitution were rather clear that the main purpose of acknowledging the right to keep and bear arms (note it wasn't just firearms) was not for hunting or self-defense, though in their day most everyone of some means owned one, but as means to overthrow a tyrannical government. In 1934 a case landed in the Supreme Court (Miller vs. U.S.) about this (he was accused of bringing a sawed-off shotgun across state lines) and even though the defendant had died prior to the hearing the Chief Justice felt compelled to pen an opinion that left entirely open that citizens might be able to legally possess arms of any sort (think tanks and artillery) that might be suitable as a deterrent to a military. Since then of course, without directly revisiting this question (courts don't like to take cases that might lead them, if they logically follow the Constitution, to embrace a death pact to their own authority), the U.S. government has tried to bury the Miller decision any way they could.

It seems appropriate that a right to keep and bear arms of any sort be enabled by the Internet; one of the purest technical inventions for liberty since the moveable type press.
Title: Re: Should SR Ban Firearms & Explosives?
Post by: gtg424 on February 09, 2012, 06:12 am
I would say yes, because the primary draw of SR is of course drugs.  I'm sure there are plenty of other websites to buy guns, explosives, etc on the deep web and considering how few listings there are on SR anyway, I don't think it would be that big of a deal for SR to delete the category altogether. 

If SR concentrates on drugs, I think it will do much better as a business enterprise than if it also allows weapons. 
Title: Re: Should SR Ban Firearms & Explosives?
Post by: jerichodotm on February 09, 2012, 02:00 pm
I voted no. 

I personally won't be purchasing any explosives or firearms,  however, setting one rule for what many consider good reasons usually opens the floodgates to more and more rules.  If SR bans these items because the majority is in favor of it what happens when the majority decides the product you like should no longer be on SR?

I don't have need for many of the products/services offered here but I certainty am willing to tolerate other peoples decisions as long as mine are equally as tolerated.

Keep everything open and allow individuals to decide for themselves what is and isn't appropriate for their lives.

My 2 cents

Title: Re: Should SR Ban Firearms & Explosives?
Post by: jerichodotm on February 09, 2012, 02:04 pm

This might sound rediculous, but I truly believe, that it is possible that if this place is conducted in a mature and considerate attitude, it could be the nail in the coffin on the already 6-feet under "war" on drugs. If, however, it is run in a "fuk the system im hardcore and anything illegal goes mofo" kind of attitude, it WILL fail. It could fail even if it is run the way I believe it should be, but at least it would have been given a real-world chance.


I have to disagree with you there.  No matter how kind, mature, etc.  we handle ourselves, the fact that some of the most heavily demonized products are sold here is in itself a big "fuck the system" message to those in the system.
Title: Re: Should SR Ban Firearms & Explosives?
Post by: anaballin on February 09, 2012, 02:07 pm
SR is great, and bring the extra attention with the sale of guns is a really big mistake. The feds Know about SILK ROAD but selling drugs is one thing... selling guns is a whole different game. With just drugs I would imagine that the DEA would be handling SR... but with the sale of guns we now have ATF, FBI, CIA, Home land Security, etc watching our ass.
Title: Re: Should SR Ban Firearms & Explosives?
Post by: SierraRS on February 09, 2012, 04:32 pm
The next poll I create will be "Should Silk Road ban drugs and other illegal items?"

The heat from LE is maximum high and it can't go higher. They will try to shut down SR even if it only sells cannabis seeds and nothing else. There is no real gain of banning some sort of illegal items while encouraging others.

Fuck the public perception of SR. Most of them are stupid and never will visit SR for themselves. They will listen what authorities are saying.
Title: Re: Should SR Ban Firearms & Explosives?
Post by: ProudCannabian on February 09, 2012, 06:10 pm
Nice to finally see a poll.  This way we can see what the general feel for this is here.
Firearms are more of an ethical dilemma than drugs.  Drugs are generally to fuck yourself up, not others.
Blah, blah, protection, but studies show that people who own firearms are more likely to get shot than those who don't.  Sure, I would love to own a pistol, as it would be cool and I'd love to go out in the woods and shoot some cans.  I have kids though, and I've seen too many accidental deaths with kids and firearms in the house to risk it right now.

That being said, there are plenty of different places to get guns, legally and illegally.  I feel guns are a minor part of SR, and DO draw the wrong kind of attention from the media.  We can "not care" about what other people think about this, but their "caring" leads directly to them spending twice the amount of money to taking this thing down.  The ATF is far more focused than the DEA.

Of course we have to take all precautions when using/dealing here anyhow, but we have a drug PR war going on along side the general war on drugs.  The last few years we've been making great strides in convincing folks that drugs are not as bad as The Man says they are.  Hell, several states have legalized medicinal usage... that is a HUGE difference from the 80's peak of the DARE years.  Making "regular" people think that drugs/gun are synonymous hurts our global goal of some day being able to smoke a joint on our front lawn without having to worry about the neighbors or law enforcement.

MY dream is to build a government sanctioned "Pleasure Dome" where folks could go, buy pharmaceutical grade drugs of their choice and take them in a comfortable environment.  This would not be like a "safe injection site" but rather like an amusement park with activities and different areas for different settings.  You could also take them home and do them there, but who doesn't like to have FUN!?

Anyhow, whichever way the poll turns out I hope we follow its example, one way or the other, and be done with this.
Title: Re: Should SR Ban Firearms & Explosives?
Post by: TravellingWithoutMoving on February 09, 2012, 11:27 pm
-  what do people & Dread Pirate Roberts who manage SR think of this issue?!
Title: Re: Should SR Ban Firearms & Explosives?
Post by: midas on February 10, 2012, 02:44 am
Sorry for not taking the time to read all answers but I think it is highly not advisable.

Imagine the person who buys it get arrested carrying it (or LE find it at his house). YOU DON'T KNOW THE HISTORY OF THE GUN. Maybe it was used to kill dozens.

Imagine the problem you can get.

About explosives, the government cares too much about it comparing to drugs. They'll make SR (or any other black market) too dangerous.
Title: Re: Should SR Ban Firearms & Explosives?
Post by: Oldtoker on February 10, 2012, 08:37 am
I'm not really sure how I feel about this.

One point I would like to make is that not everyone on here is from a country where it is easy to purchase a firearm.  You need to remember that not everyone is from the U.S., Australia, or Canada. 

I do feel strongly that everyone should have the right to have weapons for self protection against other people and governments.  However, I'm not sure that it is the smart thing for SR to provide that service.  Seems to me that 99 percent of the sales on SR are for drugs and that, in order to protect those sales, it would be better not to attract unwanted attention by selling guns and explosives.  The problem with that is that once you start banning items it becomes a slippery road.   
Title: Re: Should SR Ban Firearms & Explosives?
Post by: theamnesiac on February 10, 2012, 10:57 am
In my opinion SR should be as open a marketplace as possible.  However, I'd like to raise the point that there are serious safety issues with sending explosives through the mail that could endanger innocent people.  If someone doesn't know what the fuck they're doing and sends an unstable compound through the mail they are putting several unwitting and innocent people at risk.  I think as long as you're not dealing in things that are a.) undeniably exploitative (i.e. child pornography) or b.) would put innocent bystanders at a random risk of personal injury without their consent, anything should go.  If someone chooses to use a gun for nefarious purposes or overdoses on heroin it is a result of their own conscious decisions.  A postal worker carrying a package of leaky dynamite that some dumbass decided to mail should not be put at risk.  It is entirely unnecessary and extremely reckless.
Title: Re: Should SR Ban Firearms & Explosives?
Post by: anaballin on February 10, 2012, 05:18 pm
-  what do people & Dread Pirate Roberts who manage SR think of this issue?!

I too, would also like to know the answer to this.
Title: Re: Should SR Ban Firearms & Explosives?
Post by: midas on February 15, 2012, 01:26 pm
The more open the better but for this specific products (firearms and explosives) maybe they can use another place? It doesn't have to be SR.

What if the gun you buy have a bad history? What if the government thinks "terrorists" are getting goods in here and decides to invest (steal more money from taxpayers) more chasing transactions and such?
Title: Re: Should SR Ban Firearms & Explosives?
Post by: TheNewDude on February 17, 2012, 01:52 am
I don't see an issue with it, honestly.

I can't see there being much of a market for it though.

Guns are so incredibly easy to obtain... Unless you live outside of the USA.

I guess if you are willing to risk shipping internationally, it could make sense.
Title: Re: Should SR Ban Firearms & Explosives?
Post by: blunt1 on February 17, 2012, 07:46 pm
Very good debate however you are all forgetting one thing there are some sellers for the USA only but most buyers want outside of there like the UK or europe and getting one to any of these countrys is just about impossible anyway.And from what i see in the USA most places you need one to protect yourself