Silk Road forums
Discussion => Newbie discussion => Topic started by: Sooperknot on May 16, 2013, 05:24 pm
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It's on every single page of advice for buyers: Don't FE.
Don't ever FE.
Never, EVER FE.
DO NOT FUCKING FE.
And every single day, we see posts from retards: "I FE'd and then got ripped off! Help me, Waaaaaah!"
Maybe we need a bit of technological idiot-proofing?
Many sellers do use tracking numbers, even though they are not given to buyers for well-known security reasons.
The seller can look at the tracking number and see that the package has been delivered.
What if the buyer's "finalize" button isn't enabled until tracking indicates delivery?
I believe it could be mostly automated.
Of course it would only work in cases where tracking is actually used, but still....
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Excellent suggestion! Hopefully this can get resolved asap...
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Well, that can be implemented and coded for providing SR see's this as a business requirement and has the development resources to design, QA, deploy and implement..
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design, QA, deploy and implement..
Hopefully not in that order ;)
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I don't really see a way around this, I see it pretty simply tho.
Most if not all vendors say do not FE unless it is for such and such reason.
The buyer has to wait for the vendor to accept their order before they are able to FE, if they do not read the vendors profile, the warning msg that says FE is un do able and all of the reading material on the forums, wiki and site itself.
Then this is their own fault, they are only causing problems for themselves by FE'ing so we can only hope that they learn from this.
Escrow and the resolution centre are there for a reason, if people do not want to take advantage of that then what can you do.
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Idiot proofing only results in a nerfed world that sucks for the non-idiots. Freedom is the freedom to do something stupid, let natural selection sort it out.
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Yeah maybe getting ripped off will teach them to actually read up and do their homework before trying to order potentially illegal things on the dark web. Kind of something you should be careful doing.
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let natural selection sort it out.
Natural selection has brought us a long way indeed, but it has done so at the cost of unimaginable suffering and cruelty. Now it's time for conscious selection to take the reins. An LSD connoisseur, of all people, should understand that.
One of the dominant messages of The Selfish Gene is that we should not derive our values from Darwinism, unless it is with a negative sign.
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Silk Road isn't a nanny state. Let these fools live and learn. They're forewarned of the danger.
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Yes, no hand holding please. live and learn
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I say send them a coconut in the mail with a note saying "Don't FE ever again, dumbass" and then somehow have it explode all over their tits once they remove it. That'll teach em
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I say send them a coconut in the mail with a note saying "Don't FE ever again, dumbass" and then somehow have it explode all over their tits once they remove it. That'll teach em
;D I like it!
Let me guess, all you "let 'em suffer" guys use smartphones that run Linux, amirite?
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FE at your own risk. End of story.
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I say send them a coconut in the mail with a note saying "Don't FE ever again, dumbass" and then somehow have it explode all over their tits once they remove it. That'll teach em
Yay!
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If someone is stupid enough to make a bad judgment call it's their fault. They should start with lower valued purchases so they don't lose to much.
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Thank Robert SR already has a good system.
There always will be idiots who FE
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retards will never stop fe
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Some vendors only work with FE, some ask you to FE if you have less then 10 transaction, or high refund rate, etc., some say -FE only on purchases costing so much and more (eg. 300$ and above)
I think if the vendors themselves are forbidden to ask people to FE then people probably stop doing it.
Other opinions?
Edit: a good majority of reputable vendors ask newbs to FE
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Natural selection has brought us a long way indeed, but it has done so at the cost of unimaginable suffering and cruelty. Now it's time for conscious selection to take the reins. An LSD connoisseur, of all people, should understand that.
The philosophy that suggests that people need to be protected from their own decisions is the very basis of the prohibition against LSD.
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Good heads up to the noobs, but most of the kids that FE are kids that don't belong here. Let them get screwed.
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I don't really see a way around this, I see it pretty simply tho.
Most if not all vendors say do not FE unless it is for such and such reason.
The buyer has to wait for the vendor to accept their order before they are able to FE, if they do not read the vendors profile, the warning msg that says FE is un do able and all of the reading material on the forums, wiki and site itself.
Then this is their own fault, they are only causing problems for themselves by FE'ing so we can only hope that they learn from this.
Escrow and the resolution centre are there for a reason, if people do not want to take advantage of that then what can you do.
This, most vendors worth a damn even recommend that you don't FE. If a vendor is trying to pressure you into doing it, or requires it, it should set off alarm bells.
The way I see it, FE'ing is an unspoken agreement that you are perfectly okay with not receiving your package. You're handing your money to the vendor and whatever happens happens, and you have no right to bitch about it later. Maybe some people are just wealthy enough to be able to risk that kind of money and not think twice :o
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I don't really see a way around this, I see it pretty simply tho.
Most if not all vendors say do not FE unless it is for such and such reason.
The buyer has to wait for the vendor to accept their order before they are able to FE, if they do not read the vendors profile, the warning msg that says FE is un do able and all of the reading material on the forums, wiki and site itself.
Then this is their own fault, they are only causing problems for themselves by FE'ing so we can only hope that they learn from this.
Escrow and the resolution centre are there for a reason, if people do not want to take advantage of that then what can you do.
This, most vendors worth a damn even recommend that you don't FE. If a vendor is trying to pressure you into doing it, or requires it, it should set off alarm bells.
The way I see it, FE'ing is an unspoken agreement that you are perfectly okay with not receiving your package. You're handing your money to the vendor and whatever happens happens, and you have no right to bitch about it later. Maybe some people are just wealthy enough to be able to risk that kind of money and not think twice :o
Most of them probably use the money from the tooth fairy and santa clause. When they grow up and get a job, then they'll learn.
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And how are vendors supposed to protect themselves from new potential untrustworthy buyers who set up their account the day before?
This is a mutual agreement between buyer and vendor. And besides I think most vendors have a degree of pride in them to send the product regardless, however its either bad luck or a new buyer trying to put one over the system. None the less, a bit of good judgement from buyer to vendor would help
Cheers
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I would think in a perfect world, no vendor should require FE but base available orders to buyers based on his/her stats. And this is a service even SR could implement. For instance, vendor posts listing for product, to be able to order said product buyer must meet account stat minimums. Obviously as the price goes up, so do the minimums. But the minimums are set by the vendor to give him freedom of flexibility. Have buyer stats more conveniently posted for vendors to increase efficiency of the system. Of course, I would figure most vendors would state that some exceptions apply to specific listings and situations. Vendors would have an easier time trusting orders without having to communicate through messages as much if at all. Would also be beneficial for buyers to be able to see if they meet the requirements without having to go to each specific vendor's page to see their specific buying requirements. The only thing that would be hard with this system is for new BIG buyers, which then again, it's possible some vendors would be very willing to send some decent size orders to new buyers. Perhaps some smaller negative/positive factors I'm not thinking of.
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DO NOT FE
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DO NOT FE
^
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That goes back to another thread I started about getting your count up by spamming... Do the time here and learn from others, now you see why I posted that.
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I don't really see a way around this, I see it pretty simply tho.
Most if not all vendors say do not FE unless it is for such and such reason.
The buyer has to wait for the vendor to accept their order before they are able to FE, if they do not read the vendors profile, the warning msg that says FE is un do able and all of the reading material on the forums, wiki and site itself.
Then this is their own fault, they are only causing problems for themselves by FE'ing so we can only hope that they learn from this.
Escrow and the resolution centre are there for a reason, if people do not want to take advantage of that then what can you do.
This, most vendors worth a damn even recommend that you don't FE. If a vendor is trying to pressure you into doing it, or requires it, it should set off alarm bells.
The way I see it, FE'ing is an unspoken agreement that you are perfectly okay with not receiving your package. You're handing your money to the vendor and whatever happens happens, and you have no right to bitch about it later. Maybe some people are just wealthy enough to be able to risk that kind of money and not think twice :o
Most of them probably use the money from the tooth fairy and santa clause. When they grow up and get a job, then they'll learn.
^ that`s so true... wish i could go back to the time when asking vigorously was enough to get my hands on money... but with drugs... forget it LOL
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Hmmm, interesting.
Clearly there are still a few things I don't understand about this place.
So FE is kind of like a loaded booby trap that we leave sitting around, so we can laugh at noobs when it springs on them?
Okay, I guess I can live with that.
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I need posts to post proper reviews so here's my thoughts. I'm going to spam them separately to get my 50......
$
-Force all new registered buyer accounts to deposit a refundable amount. The vendor accounts cost 500, how about buyer accounts cost $250? In the event a buyer attempts to scam a seller, the resolution center could decide if the deposit should be released to cover the transaction. This would probably cut down on some of the "live with mom" accounts that pop up daily if they had to fork over 250 buck and wouldn't see it until a certain # of transactions were reached with a maximum refund %. There are plenty of scenarios this wouldn't work in but hey, it's worth a shot.
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Next thought:
Allow the vendors to configure their listing with their FE requirements and have SR automatically validate if the buyer is required/allowed to FE. No more "accidents" if SR won't allow you to do it. And to ensure that new buyers aren't purchasing more than the new account deposit I mentioned earlier, have SR prevent a new account from buying more than they have on deposit. You could allow a buyer to deposit more into their account too if they really wanted to, similar to a secured credit card where you can't spend more than you've already put down.
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Continued....
SR should be able to automatically increase the auto-finalize duration based on the country the buyer is from and where the vendor is. Each country should be able to have a general rule (+/- X days) that should be suitable as a starting point so that international purchases automatically have a longer time until the order auto-finalizes.
Vendors state that they need the money and can't wait for international shipping. Well, you're the business owner, this is a cost of doing business. Limit your allowable consumer base to just domestic until you're in a position to support international orders.
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Hmmm, interesting.
Clearly there are still a few things I don't understand about this place.
So FE is kind of like a loaded booby trap that we leave sitting around, so we can laugh at noobs when it springs on them?
Okay, I guess I can live with that.
I think that there's more than enough warnings not to FE. The wiki, admins, vendors, everyone on the forums. Everyone advises against it.
If you do your research before purchasing, which you should, considering the nature of this place and the need for security, then it should be ingrained in your mind that FE is bad. Nobody's laughing at noobs losing their money, that sucks. But they have no one to blame but themselves. You FE, you willingly risk your money, you have to accept that if you don't get your order, you cut your losses and move on.
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More...
SR should be able to automate audits and reviews of vendor accounts. If more than a certain % of all transactions are FE'd, then that account should be reviewed. It's too easy for vendors to scam their own listings with bogus buyer accounts leading unsuspecting people to believe that FE'ing is trustworthy.
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You FE, you willingly risk your money
Eureka!
I have fundamentally misunderstood the semiotics of FE. My interpretation of "Never FE" was far too literal.
There's a reason so many people feel an emotional investment in preserving the ABILITY to FE, even if they do not recommend it in general.
It's an expression of trust. And trust is the cornerstone of communities.
When you put your trust in someone, there's always a chance they will betray you. But if nobody ever takes that chance, there can never be a community.
The real rule is: "Be aware that when you FE, you are placing your trust in that other person. We won't help you if it goes wrong."
Am I getting closer?
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sounds good to me
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Am I getting closer?
Pretty much. There are actually a couple vendors whom I'd trust enough to FE, still doesn't mean I'm going to do it. I know they'd stick to their word and ship my order, but anything can go wrong. And if it did, and they weren't willing to work out a refund, I'd accept that.
I guess the bottom line is just that you have to be very, very careful about who you FE with, and accept that you can end up with nothing, no order or bitcoins, when you hit that Finalize button.
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A couple of the biggest scams vendors have pulled were from very reputable and relatively long-term vendors running sales requiring FE. I don't know off hand who just recently did it again but it happened last year on a 420 sale and it sounds like a bunch of people lost money.
However, I believe this is an example of survival of the fittest. It unfortunately breeds distrust and creates a "buyer vs vendor" mentality sometimes. I treat being a buyer as I'm gambling with my money, I'm not purchasing something with it. I just happen to have a very good chance at getting a return on my funds by following recommended rules and security practices.
Don't FE!
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survival of the fittest
Nope. Still not going along with that one. I'm sticking with Dawkins -- we should not take the Darwinian process as a normative model for human society.
It unfortunately breeds distrust
Yes that is true, betrayal does breed distrust. But the possibility of betrayal does not cause us to give up on the concept of trust.
Don't FE!
If you're going to FE, think twice and be careful. Know what you're doing, and who you're doing it with.
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I think the system is fine the way it is. YOU HAVE FUCKING FREE WILL PEOPLE. Well I guess everyone has that but not everyone has common sense =( But at least not so clever people will learn their mistake with the system the way it is now. Its not that hard to fuck up, between the forums and feedback I usually feel about 99.99% sure of things, and even then I will NEVER FINALIZE EARLY. Its pretty fucking simple actually, I dont have to say it in my head over and over again, or write it in sharpie on the back of my hand either =D Yay