Silk Road forums
Discussion => Drug safety => Topic started by: newbottles on May 22, 2013, 03:37 am
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I appreciate there are objective opioid conversion resources (and threads). But I would also be interested in what experienced users think the relative expense is between prescription opioids (oxycodone, etc) and illegal heroin (#4, BTH, etc).
I have a low tolerance, no IV use.
Prices are SR prices.
I could spend $300+ on quality prescription oxycodone IR and not even get 10 solid highs. That would be oral ROA.
With a solid heroin #4 vendor on SR, I could buy 1 gram for <$300 (price varies depending on vendor) and pretty much be high all day every day for 5+ days. That would be insufflation ROA.
I greatly prefer the idea of corporate quality control standards for prescription opioids. But even as a chipper without a serious habit, it is very difficult to choose the prescription route over H. Also I am not rich but not broke - I can afford to mess around.
I would be interested in why some people choose the more expensive route.
Also, I would be interested in relative return on investment for users with different tolerances and habits.
Perhaps the IV game changes things a bit?
Some people are just too focused on the risk/reward ratio to dabble in the street product?
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Heroin will usually go farther than pharms if you get quality heroin. Pharms are big because there isnt always an H scene in every town from my experience. There are always pain patients that need some money it seems.
Do you really want to IV? In my experience it makes heroin even more economical but do you really want to go there? People here are too happy to jump into opiates I think. It has become cool to become a strung out junkie when in reality it is hell on earth. Please be careful with using these strong drugs responsibly.
Quality heroin can be just as clean as pharmaceuticals. Who is to say how that pill was handled before it gets into your hands. Heroin is produced in a relatively clean reaction and can be cleaned further to remove cuts and byproducts if you are interested. I dont think that is really a factor when we are talking about hypothetical quality heroin.
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I suppose its mostly a matter of trust.
Most people would judge something that comes in a nice blister pack with leaflet, expiration date and all as more reliable compared to some random looking powder, and often rightfully so.
Substances like heroin can be purified to the same standards morphine can, but this rarely happens as users do not demand it and there is no regulating agency to enforce it either.
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My pain meds cost me $25 for 180 pills, and I go to the Doc every 2 and a half months. Each pill would cost more than that on SR.
I've been on painkillers for 6+ years and have never tried heroin, so for someone like me there isn't even a choice, I'd have to be off my rocker to want to source something else expensive and possibly sketchy over my Doctor regulated pain management.
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Obviously there is a premium price on pain medication on SR since it can be obtained without prescription here.
Then again there is a huge margin between the price of legally prescribed and obtained medication compared to silkroad prices.
The difference between nomral pharmacy prices and SR prices can be anything from 5 to 100++ times depending on what substance is involved. The largest differences can be found in presciption opiates which are no longer covered by patents and available as generics.
I suppose this will equalize a bit over time though since people with a prescription that do not need the full amount will find themselves a nice bit of extra income. Aside from that illicit manufacture of good quality product will also pick up. Illegal drugs have been the domain of rogues until now. We have the ability to test purity by advanced means like gc/ms today, and will use that to identify and dispose off cut or mislabeled products.
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For me Heroin is 'The real Thing' everything else is trying to replicate the H effect, I have had Pharma 'Pure' H years ago & imo it is not a nice as Brown No3 same goes for most of the other pharma drugs.
I would pick good no3 over any other Opiate, given the choice, problem is I don't always have the choice.
C
!00th post I didn't think I would ever post that much.
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Is there even such a thing as 'pharma pure' heroin?
Morphine is produced for medical use and is available as a very pure substance from that. but heroin is not (anymore).
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Is there even such a thing as 'pharma pure' heroin?
Morphine is produced for medical use and is available as a very pure substance from that. but heroin is not (anymore).
Yes in Switzerland there are heroin clinics that administer pure pharmaceutical heroin.
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That's interesting! I suppose their goal is to taper off dosages gradually?
I've never seen anything like pharmaceutically produced heroin tablets, iv liquids or anything like that though. Morphine is available in all those forms, which makes me wonder where these swiss clinics obtain their pharma grade heroin from. I know it was produced by several pharma companies in (the first half of) the 20th century, but i've never seen it listed since.. or does it come under some odd trade name that would be hard to recognize?
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If your looking to spend $300 on opiates, I would HAVE to suggest going with some #4..
Three bills really wont get you shit as far as RX op's go.
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Hey Dude,
I'm going to get flamed for saying this (I think)...
I'm an Aussie, we pay more for everything here... That aside, I think we get good quality stuff.
If you have OC, it's good because it's in pill form, it's easy to gauge your dose and avoid moving your tolerance up (i.e. I had 15mg last night, tonight I don't want to get that smashed, so I'll have a little less or a little more etc). It's easier to take in general, no snorting (although, that's how I took it... and after what seemed like snorting shit loads of filler, I can kind of say, if you're determined for a better high and don't mind a bit of nose pain - snorting is the way to go.
I don't find it as euphoric as #4 H. The high lasts for a decent amount of time. I had NO withdrawals from a few days of nightly use. I was high, slept like an angel and had a great time. The good thing about OC in Real Life is, you know what you're getting... but this isn't real life, and welcome to a buyers market.
For $300 of #4 H, you can research and find some vendor who is going to give you killer product. H is more intense, but shorter acting in my opinion (I haven't, and won't bother googleing anything to back this up, someone else will be able to tell me I'm wrong - this is just my experience). With H, it's easy to get to a point where you are 'nodding'. Fuck, it feels good, but it's not so good if you have an emergency and need to drive somewhere and you're almost falling asleep at traffic lights. I haven't found much of a a withdrawal with heroin, but i will NEVER take it in consecutive days. Actually, I take it min 3 days apart, and usually only every now and again.
It's easy to snort, if you're used to that. If you're going to do it yourself, just empty some on to a plate and have TINY TINY lines of it every 30mins. Remember; you can always have more, you can't have less.
The last thing I'll throw in, is the cheapest option. Where I am, you can obtain poppy seeds cheaply and they say they are washed, but IMHO you can wash them in water - strain them, drink that and you will be high as hell, feeling great for about twice as long as OC lasts, and probably about 3 times as long as H lasts. IT's called Poppy Seed Tea - there's one million recipes for it online, and all types of debates about how to make it - you'll make your own mind up.
Here's my chart for you:
OC
Pros: Easy dose, easy to tell how much you've had, easy to 'save' some for the next days as you can say 'I can have 2 max a day', less withdrawal than any of the others I had.
Cons: Not as intense as H, but you can still get to where you need to be. Price is HIGH, IMHO. You can get cheaper in Real Life, easily.
#4 Heroin
Pros: It's The Road! You can get quality product, better than on the street and you can read all about it before you buy it. It will get you higher than you need to be, it's surprisingly cheap for someone with a small tolerance. Snorting is easy to administer.
Cons: You do have to take time to snort, it doesn't last as long, it feels so good that some people can't stop and become addicts. The stories are everywhere, but you know this. (No, you won't be addicted physically after one try).
Poppy Seed Tea
Pro: Pretty much legal, cheap, lasts for AGES, readily available (if you've got good seeds in your area), self service checkouts allow for no weird questions!
Cons: Takes ages, tastes like shit, hard to get even a rough dosage as each seed batch is different, your area might have shit seeds, in which case this isn't even an option for you. WORST WITHDRAWALS OUT OF ANY OPIATE I'VE EVER HAD. I think because of the duration is lasts.
Good luck - and report back to let us know your choices :) Be safe, and be smart.
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That's interesting! I suppose their goal is to taper off dosages gradually?
I've never seen anything like pharmaceutically produced heroin tablets, iv liquids or anything like that though. Morphine is available in all those forms, which makes me wonder where these swiss clinics obtain their pharma grade heroin from. I know it was produced by several pharma companies in (the first half of) the 20th century, but i've never seen it listed since.. or does it come under some odd trade name that would be hard to recognize?
I think they decided it was a better option that methadone or suboxone and id have to agree. Im not sure where they get it from but my guess would be they convert morphine bought from a legit pharmaceutical company. To my knowledge its sealed vials that is administered to the patient in a clean setting with a clean needle.
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That's interesting! I suppose their goal is to taper off dosages gradually?
I've never seen anything like pharmaceutically produced heroin tablets, iv liquids or anything like that though. Morphine is available in all those forms, which makes me wonder where these swiss clinics obtain their pharma grade heroin from. I know it was produced by several pharma companies in (the first half of) the 20th century, but i've never seen it listed since.. or does it come under some odd trade name that would be hard to recognize?
I think they decided it was a better option that methadone or suboxone and id have to agree. Im not sure where they get it from but my guess would be they convert morphine bought from a legit pharmaceutical company. To my knowledge its sealed vials that is administered to the patient in a clean setting with a clean needle.
Diamorphine (heroin) is a bitch to get hold of. I like it, but there is something about smoking a very good #3 that is better. It's a different buzz.
Diamorphine converts to morphine and codeine in the body so take enough morphine+codeine and you have the same effect.
In the UK a very, very few ppl are prescribed injectable diamorphine amps instead of methadone. I heard that diamorphine is cheaper to produce so I don't know why they give out methadone like juice. Methadone takes a lot longer to comes off, it's a nasty drug IMO.
I also heard that some clinics are experimenting with giving chronic IV H users diamorphine amps like in the Netherlands for example, I truly hope this is the case as it will save the government money and will be a LOT easier to come off in rehab.
As for the OP... some ppl like pharmas, some like street drugs. My preference is for the feeling of good #3, can't beat it. I have tried many pharmas and they don't compare. Price would be irrelevant to me.
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My pain meds cost me $25 for 180 pills, and I go to the Doc every 2 and a half months. Each pill would cost more than that on SR.
I've been on painkillers for 6+ years and have never tried heroin, so for someone like me there isn't even a choice, I'd have to be off my rocker to want to source something else expensive and possibly sketchy over my Doctor regulated pain management.
I was in a similar situation but Doc cut me off. Which kinda sucks cause I did kinda abuse that script but ever since I got cut off I just been doing more and more drugs of any kind. So I think it actual helped me with pain and also keeping my addiction somewhat in control.
Honestly at this point though if I wanted to get an Opiate high I would just buy some H from a good vendor. I'm not fucking with the Opiate prices here on SR. I'd just get a nice bag of H and make it last for a few weeks. The other point I wanna make is I think a lot of pain patients end up on H cause of a Doctor cutting them off and they're addicted and turn to H. I never did but just saying. Anyways to OP ya bang for your buck you can't beat H but I've never tried it just from observing others.
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The other thing I wanna add is that most people like the general public think Heroin is a dirty dirty drug and a pill is so much more inherhently cleaner cause it's made in this bad ass lab. If H is good and hits you then it's pretty fing clean. So there's that for the price difference and also I think with H it's easier to lose your self control. With pills it still is but I would say it's easier to control a bit.
Here's an example say you get some H just to snort it cause you can't afford the crazy prices for opiates here. You snort the first time and you love it. This goes on for a couple of weeks and you start building a tolerance. Then you ask yourself how you can stretch your H even further. Next thing you know your shooting it up to get the most out of it. Once you start shooting it up I think it's a slippery slope. I've seen lots of people that fing hated needles. Would swear they would never touch one and that shit happened to them. Not trying to scare cause everyone has to make their own decisions. I eventually plan to prolly try but I'm not 100% confident that if I tried it that after a few weeks I wouldn't start shooting it. If I buy like 20 vikes I can get high and I know I can't shoot it.
I may be weird but I have like a hierarchy of drugs inmy little brand and to me Heroin is at the top. Well IV'd Heroin to be specific, that's the most hardcore thing I think well and IVing Meth. I hope my answer kinda helps.
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Converting morphine into heroin is not that hard to do from a chemical perspective. If you have bulk amounts of morphine from poppies or such, the process of converting that morphine into heroine is relative simple and carried out with sub-optimal equipment and chemicals on a very large scale as it is. Down in the fast east this is performed with car petrol as the solvent with reasoable yields.
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@ Cancellations: Nice summary, thanks.
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I appreciate the many substantial responses.
To be clear: I have never gone IV, and I don't plan to. I can sincerely state that I have no plan to ever IV anything, and I love many drugs. I don't really have that archetypal "fear of needles" but I just don't want to introduce that option at this point. After enough chipping at Oxy and H (insufflated), I can dig why you don't go there.
But never say "never". I think that is actually a very important healthy/harm-reduction maxim for drug abusers. Just never say "never" because you have then set yourself up for something on some psychological level. IMHO. Better to stay agnostic on that sort of stuff, if you are the sort of person who ends up here.
One thing that occurs to me after reading this thread, if you are inclined to abuse opioids:
Insfufflation is unsustainable - independent from the effect of the potential opioid addiction. It fucks up your nose (and maybe lungs - I am not sure about this). Insufllation of #4 is inherently uncertain, and insufflation of any pills is just always somewhat harmful due to the filler.
Smoking pills or H is unsustainable - this seriously fucks up your lungs over time. I know others here have much more to add, but I would strongly advise everyone to avoid this ROA for any drug. I understand proper, informed IV use to be far superior from a harm reduction perspective. Feel free to correct me here. Tobacco is bad enough, but meth, cocaine, crack, H is even worse. Pills are just terrible to be smoking. Use your brain. If you are on SR you are pretty smart. Even heavy cannabis smoking should be minimized if possible and that is the least harmful.
IV use is IV use. I think anyone reading this understands what that entails.
So oral ROA of prescription opioids has a lot of relative benefit when you consider the above. Perhaps that adds to the price premium relative to H, in addition to the aforementioned perception of relative consistency/purity/safety/etc.
I am pleased to see this thread attracted some of the intelligent contributions I was hoping for!
Everyone stay safe, stay smart, and stay high if you want to. If you don't want to, all the best - sincerely. Life is hell and we all do what we can in our very specific individual circumstances. Just never forget to keep reading good stuff - that is mandatory regardless of where you are at or where you are going.
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newbottles, sounds like i am in the same mindset as you. I've never done opiods IV and never plan to. I think that's when you really start to have bad problems. It's bad enough being addicted.
Anyways, I always heard heroin is a huge bang for your buck vs. prescription opiates. And it's true. I had never done heroin before I started using the road, but I have tried just about every prescription painkiller there is before that. I got started years ago taking a Lortab or 2, then moved up to a pure codeine powder that went around my city for a while. After that powder ran out, I basically quit doing painkillers for around 3 months. I wish i would stayed like that, but shit happens and I didn't. The big thing after that was the old green Oxycontin 80mgs. Got pretty big into those, back in the day with no tolerance they were awesome. Just grinded me off a little line every night and one 80 would last me a week. Fast forward a few years, and they replaced them with the OP80s, pretty much worthless if you like to snort. So then it was the Roxicodone 30mg's. Did those up until I found SilkRoad, and it's been high quality #4 since! Still haven't tried tar or #3, no desire to really since I snort. Of course through the years I've tried other things, and I still keep Suboxone and Tramadol on me always when I don't have heroin.
Went off on a ramble there, but yeah Heroin beats any prescription badly. I've bought a few 30 mg Roxies since I started heroin, and it's unbelievable. I used to buy like 4 or 5 roxies, and that would last me almost a week. Now that wouldn't even last me a day. And it's a hell of alot more expensive too. 5 roxies is $150, I can get a gram of heroin for a little more than that, and a good gram of H will last 4 or 5 days.
I don't see myself ever going back to prescriptions (other than suboxone) I just take my subs, and get a gram of H when I have the money.
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I suppose the problem is that you -will- iv them at some point. The bioavalability of a dose is much greater when it is iv'd instead of smoked, and at some point most users simply run out of money.
I've had morphine iv after surgery, and 10 or 20 mg doses hit like a truck if you are not a frequent opiate user. This is not really surprising since the IV availability is near 100%, while the availability from smoking, snorting or ingesting is in the order of 20-30%.
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Just a quick question. How long does one use heroin before they are in the hole, and their body physically starts to crave it?
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Just a quick question. How long does one use heroin before they are in the hole, and their body physically starts to crave it?
i cant speak as a sober person, but doing my suboxone normally, and then getting a gram of heroin - which will last me around 4 days if its good stuff - i will feel like complete shit when i run out of heroin, and have to go back to the suboxone. i never had that problem on prescription painkillers, but i think heroin is just so damn strong. its not withdrawals, but it just feels like them. its like the suboxone isn't strong enough to make you feel right. so i'd imagine probably less than a week of continuous heroin use in a sober individual would probably cause some pretty bad cravings/withdrawal. heroin is unbelievably strong and addicting.
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Get a good $10 stamp in New Jersey and it will be as strong as several 30mg roxis.
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just wanted to ask is 400 euros good price for 30 oxycodone 80 mg pills? for how much i would be able to resell them?
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Is there even such a thing as 'pharma pure' heroin?
Morphine is produced for medical use and is available as a very pure substance from that. but heroin is not (anymore).
Yes in Switzerland there are heroin clinics that administer pure pharmaceutical heroin.
::Books plane tickets, renews passport:::