Silk Road forums
Discussion => Legal => Topic started by: buckaroo0987 on September 23, 2013, 08:48 pm
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Hypothetical situation...
Say you buy gold, fill out all the legal paperwork (assuming there is some), and later sell it someone else.
Do you need to have them fill out something saying they now own it? Or do you leave it up to the buyer to handle their taxes themselves?
I'm asking this question as both an individual situation or a legal "middleman"/ concierge business where once in a while (ie - not your primary business model) you would buy gold for a client.
It's an interesting situation and I'd love to know what you guys think.
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what forms do you need to fill out to buy gold unless its from a bank and all you should have to show them is an ID. im also canadian tho, but if your going to a pawnshop to buy gold, they wouldnt ask for any id or anything like that
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Theres no reporting with certain mints. American gold eagles are not subject to reporting. if you sell gold to a shop local laws might require they get your id for theft investigations.
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Theres no reporting with certain mints. American gold eagles are not subject to reporting. if you sell gold to a shop local laws might require they get your id for theft investigations.
That's true if you buy those eagles... and only up to a certain amount.
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Hypothetical situation...
Say you buy gold, fill out all the legal paperwork (assuming there is some), and later sell it someone else.
Do you need to have them fill out something saying they now own it? Or do you leave it up to the buyer to handle their taxes themselves?
I'm asking this question as both an individual situation or a legal "middleman"/ concierge business where once in a while (ie - not your primary business model) you would buy gold for a client.
It's an interesting situation and I'd love to know what you guys think.
First, most gold shops we have come across require no legal paperwork to be completed before you may buy gold from them because there is no paperwork required by law in most cases. Of course, documentation requirements vary by jurisdiction.
Many gold and silver shops skirt tax laws because they don't like them, and believe they are unenforceable. You may want to be extra careful when working with such businesses, or accept that you are risking potential tax troubles in the future for some short-term gain. Most states collect some sales tax on some precious metal sales. It is advisable that you research your state's laws and don't run afoul of them.
In USA nearly any purchase of over $10k of anything requires documentation. But it is advisable to record all your transactions and establish your cost basis for every position you hold regardless of size. The IRS considers selling gold, silver, or other precious metals for a profit a taxable gain, which they are happy to tax you on.
Selling gold similarly has no paperwork requirement in most situations. But, again, you would want to document your taxable gain and pay the IRS the appropriate percentage of your profits... Assuming you're into paying the IRS when many others in the same situation don't.
No documentation from the other party in your buy or sell transactions would be required - the only documentation requirements relate to transactions of specific products or transactions greater than a specific size, when both parties may be required to document that transaction.
Chart showing threshold number of ounces LIMITING HOW MUCH YOU MAY SELL before triggering the need to file a form 1099 with the IRS:
Gold bars (any size bars totaling 1 kilo -- 32.15 troy ounces -- or more)
Gold Maple Leafs (25 ounces or more)
Gold Krugerrands (25 ounces or more)
Gold Mexican Onzas (25 ounces or more)
Silver bars (1,000 ounces or more)
U.S. 90 percent silver coins, pre-1965 ($1,000 face value or more)
Platinum bars (25 ounces or more)
Palladium bars (100 ounces or more)
My suggestion: buy and sell gold in Asia.
http://www.usagold.com/cpm/privacy.html
http://www.onlygold.com/faqcenterpages/faq_legalissuesandgold.htm
http://www.golddealer.com/questions_and_answers.html
http://www.wtas.com/newsletter/2010/july/gold.php
http://www.57gold.com/faq
http://about.ag/taxes.htm
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PG for the win!
Man you know your stuff about gold.
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I love gold, got a stylin 3oz buttery yellow 23k gold chain around my neck at all times :)
Buying gold in Asia, or even in Chinatowns in America and Europe, is a good option because it gives you a product you can sell back to these same vendors for fair prices, whether you sell in a few days or decades. Try to sell any jewelry you buy from western jewelers and you'll see what a different proposition it is...
In many places in Asia and probably elsewhere, buying gold chains or other trinkets is the most common way people save for their retirement. Get with that program, and you're diversifying to make sure your savings can withstand any dramatic changes.
Suggest collecting numismatic gold and silver coins, in addition to accumulation of semi-bulk amounts of coins with limited mintage figures. Bullion is not of particular interest to me. They're going to keep pulling silver and gold from the earth for a while, but numismatic value is something that is imparted to a limited set of coins, and never created again (except in the case of Perth Mint issuing more 2008 1oz Chinese Zodiac rat coins in 2011/2012, that really burned me up...)
I really like Chinese Pandas, their fractional gold coins are best investments IMO, but the 1oz coins are nice too. The Silver Pandas are also good. Perth Mint Chinese Zodiac coins, silver or gold, are really nice too. Perth Mint makes great coins, as do the Royal Australian Mint, and the New Zealand Mint.
Adding older gold and silver coins minted in USA, Mexico, or Europe is a good idea too. Notice these reporting laws don't address coins minted using .925 Sterling Silver, or foreign coins that are 90% pure silver such as Mexican Onzas.
Having some graded coins is a good idea to further diversify precious metal holdings. They don't have to be perfect 70s. 68s and 69s are good enough...
Note that a nice loophole for the 1099 reporting requirements are 1kg gold coins... Damn gold frisbees! They don't have to be reported :)
Message me if I can help with anything related to gold, silver, coins, etc :)