Silk Road forums

Discussion => Security => Topic started by: jesusjoints on September 28, 2011, 05:04 pm

Title: MtGox Left Me Speechless.
Post by: jesusjoints on September 28, 2011, 05:04 pm
Here's my message to MtGox so people can understand the shit i've had to go through..
i'll respond back later with their reply..
This is not for sympathy or anything... this is just to warn others and let others be aware.

"I'm speechless... utterly speechless..

I send money to your NAB technocash account..
you close the account and refund 2/3 of it
then i have to speak to my bank and you for days until i can get the full 3/3

Then i send 400 dollars to your bankwest account.
You then suddenly put up that you require ID so the account
can be vertified. I give you 400 dollars and then the bankwest account is closed
and my money held (FOR GOD KNOWS HOW LONG)

Then i send 200 dollars international wire to your hong kong account
(EVEN THOUGH i still havent gotten my 400 dollars back)
Then i read this "[OUTAGE-12717] International Wire Deposits Delayed"

My question is WHAT is going on.. i as a customer i have a right to know.
do not send me an automated answer, i'm tired of this.
What is going on with Bankwest and Technocash?
i've now invested 600 dollars.. 600 dollars!
for what? for it to be held in multiple accounts for an indefinite amount of time.

Will my 200 international wire be going through? When?
Will my 400 dollars be refunded to me? When?

I'm a patient man with not alot of money..
Please respond as soon as possible.. thank you."
Title: Re: MtGox Left Me Speechless.
Post by: redtide on September 28, 2011, 07:58 pm
I'll never use Mt. Gox after reading this.
That's some sketchy shit.
Title: Re: MtGox Left Me Speechless.
Post by: brasky on September 29, 2011, 01:57 am
Avoid mtgox at all costs. They happily took my money and let my buy coins and then as soon as I tried to transfer them they are requiring me to send in all kinds of ID. been over a week now they are holding my money hostage. Horrible business.

Title: Re: MtGox Left Me Speechless.
Post by: btcfreedom on September 29, 2011, 02:41 am

they're a bunch of shady fucks....i wont use them anymore.

the company that runs mtgox, kktibanne, is owned by mr. magicaltux. google the rest.

mtgox spreads the biz across three continents from what I know of. smart but very shady.

I also do not doubt that they would accept money from international LE to disclose customer

information in a heartbeat, just to stay ahead of the btc market game. Stay away from these assclowns
Title: Re: MtGox Left Me Speechless.
Post by: jesusjoints on September 29, 2011, 03:36 am
Just received some good news today.
My 200 dollars went through (they didn't respond to my message)
but that is the fastest money money has ever gone through into my mtgox account for me.

Now all i have to worry about is the fact this random company has my ID
and my 400 dollars.
Title: Re: MtGox Left Me Speechless.
Post by: hipsi on September 29, 2011, 04:22 am
I also am very pissed off. After they closed their NAB acc and then opened BW - I deposited 500 ish and it just didnt turn up. Then I contact Mtgox support saying that there had been issues with fraud so the cases had to be identified and then they would transfer the money and could not say how long it would take.

I called technocash and gave all my transaction details - they did refund my money but I am certain that nothing would have happened if I did not follow this up. Shady cunts.
Title: Re: MtGox Left Me Speechless.
Post by: sickboy on September 29, 2011, 06:35 am
Sorry if this has already been brought up, but, MT Gox and Dwolla suck balls in the worst way.
I use exchangebitcoins.com and instawallet.org for all my BTC needs. Exchangebitcoins accepts cash deposits at any Chase or Wells Fargo branch. The funds clear in just a few minutes. You can log in using TOR and you can use TORMAIL for your conformation emails.
Easier, faster, more secure.
Title: Re: MtGox Left Me Speechless.
Post by: btcfreedom on September 29, 2011, 10:34 am
Sorry if this has already been brought up, but, MT Gox and Dwolla suck balls in the worst way.
I use exchangebitcoins.com and instawallet.org for all my BTC needs. Exchangebitcoins accepts cash deposits at any Chase or Wells Fargo branch. The funds clear in just a few minutes. You can log in using TOR and you can use TORMAIL for your conformation emails.
Easier, faster, more secure.

+1

exact same scenario here. Dwolla makes you wait an arm and and asshole before you even get to BID on mtgox coin. exchangebitcoins.com works awesome with Chase / WF. Literally, a few minutes...not a few days. Thanks sickboy
Title: Re: MtGox Left Me Speechless.
Post by: jackstraw on September 29, 2011, 02:05 pm
FYI....exchange bitcoins dropped Chase a couple weeks ago....It's now Bank of America and Wells Fargo ONLY.

Still the best to get your money to coins fast and easy if you ask me.
Title: Re: MtGox Left Me Speechless.
Post by: HugoReyes on September 29, 2011, 06:07 pm
FUCK MT. GOX!!!

https://www.exchangebitcoins.com/ for life!
Title: Re: MtGox Left Me Speechless.
Post by: bleep on September 29, 2011, 10:25 pm
does anyone know a better exchanger from BTC - Liberty Reserve $$$
Title: Re: MtGox Left Me Speechless.
Post by: Jimmy245 on September 30, 2011, 12:45 am
Yes, exchangebitcoins is easy to get dollars into, but the "ask" price is always a 5-10% premium to the ask price on the more far more liquid MtGox.  I've never had a problem with MtGox, but it looks like it's only a matter of time, as so many others are having problems.  So I agree that exchb is convenient, but the convenience is not free.

FYI....exchange bitcoins dropped Chase a couple weeks ago....It's now Bank of America and Wells Fargo ONLY.

Still the best to get your money to coins fast and easy if you ask me.
Title: Re: MtGox Left Me Speechless.
Post by: jackstraw on September 30, 2011, 01:42 am
True about the "ask" price being higher if you are trying to do an instant transaction to get your coins immediately.   If you have some time a few hours or overnight even....try putting in a bid close to the current mtgoxlive rate and you might get a seller to take your bid. 
Title: Re: MtGox Left Me Speechless.
Post by: jesusjoints on September 30, 2011, 07:20 am
Contacted technocash.. had to give them ALL my details. but i ended up getting the 400 dollars back.
Title: Re: MtGox Left Me Speechless. and thief
Post by: sensisky on September 30, 2011, 11:01 am
Mt gox = thief

i have not answer since 7 days . I have to do fransfert bank 100 euro , i look my account , and 0 bitcoins  and no response
 
no good man !!!!!!!
Title: Re: MtGox Left Me Speechless.
Post by: jazzdupre2 on October 03, 2011, 12:21 am
I double that emotion.  They had $200.00 of mine for 10 days and needed me to send them ID'S AND PROOF OF RESIDENCE, MY FIRST BORN and finally released it after 50,000 emails and me calling Dwolla threatening to take my money back from them because they did not warn me about there shady tactics that they were well aware others had incurred there.

ASSHOLES. THE FUCKING BITCOINS ARE USED FOR ANONYMOUS PURCHASING AND THOSE FUCKHEADS TAKE ALL THE ANON OUT OF IT.  YOU KNOW WHEN A WHOLE WEBSITE IS DEVOTED TO HATING YOU IT IS BECUZ THEY GOT PRETTY F Angry.

mtgoxsux.com
 
Title: Re: MtGox Left Me Speechless.
Post by: btcfreedom on October 03, 2011, 11:06 am
MountCocks.com
Title: Re: MtGox Left Me Speechless.
Post by: xeno789 on October 14, 2011, 08:35 am
hi all just read the threads and was alittle concerned. i used MTGOX about two weeks ago. i went to my bank and done a SWIFT. i just knew to go in to my bank with MTGOX info and fill a SWIFT international wire transfer.
all went smooth the girl done a check on my ID, some criminal check and three papers to sign.
All for a big $150AU to hongkong it cost $35 to do it through my bank so $185 later the shit was on its way.
When it was put into my MtGox account there was $130. more fees! i did conplain about it and got this reply..

"Deposits incur a fee of HKD 42. This rate applies until October 31, 2011.

**Please note that these costs do not include intermediate bank fees, or exchange fees. If you send us funds in a currency where a wallet for that currency is unavailable on your Mt.Gox account, an exchange fee of 2.5% will be charged to convert your funds into the available currency wallet."

they are opening an Australian bank to make it cheaper so they say.
so the service was fine just the fees took a bit of it. $185AU down to $130AU.        $20AU MtGox.         $35AU my bank (SWIFT).
FUCKING BANKs and they would call us criminals..

 
Title: Re: MtGox Left Me Speechless.
Post by: RapidImprovementV2 on October 19, 2011, 03:18 am
Yikes. My first transaction went perfect. Second transaction fucked me. exchangeb is dead and gone. what do?
Title: Re: MtGox Left Me Speechless.
Post by: TheBlackDahlia on October 20, 2011, 11:02 pm
People, Mt. Gox is great to do business with.  They're the highest volume exchange and they have the best prices.  Give them your real name, give them your real ID, and stop freaking out.

*** BUYING BITCOINS IS PERFECTLY LEGAL ***

Buy some bitcoins, sell some bitcoins, have some fun.  Remember that you're buying bitcoins because you are interested in the growth of technology.  You want to be part of this new global currency experiment.  Maybe you want to try and speculate and see if you can make some money buying and selling them.  Maybe you're just getting a fundamental understanding of economics.  Maybe you just think the name "Bitcoin" is cool.  Whatever your reason, it doesn't matter because it's LEGAL!

I cannot stress this enough:

*** IT IS NOT ILLEGAL TO BUY OR SELL BITCOINS ***

When you want to transfer some bitcoins out of MtGox, you start by downloading the latest bitcoin software from bitcoin.org.  Read the docs because you can set it up to run entirely through Tor .  You heard me right kids, you can run your own bitcoin client completely through Tor, you just have to setup a SOCKS proxy (it means setting some prefs in the bitcoin.conf file and installing tor--Google is your friend here).  The first time you run the bitcoin client it will take several hours to download the entire blockchain.  Relax, grab a beer (or three) and wait.

Then, buy some bitcoins.  NEVER buy more than you can withdraw in one day due to the high degree of bitcoin fluctuation at the moment and in general don't buy bitcoins unless you intend to spend them right away.  This might not apply at some point in the future when it stabilizes relative to the dollar, but it's good advice for now.

For unverified accounts at Mt. Gox you can withdraw 100 bitcoins per day.  So go buy your 100 bitcoins.

Start your bitcoin client and look for "Your Bitcoin Address:".  It will have a big long string of letters and numbers.

Go to Mt. Gox and withdraw your bitcoins to your bitcoin address.  Every time you receive bitcoins your bitcoin address will change.  This means you can turn right around and send bitcoins back to YOURSELF at your new address.  So if you just got 100, send 26.28 or whatever to your new address.  When they come in send 61.56 to your next new address, when those come in send 12.16 to your next new address (hopefully you'll see that adds up to 100).  Do this a few times over the course of a few hours.  Don't use the exact numbers I gave in my example (well, unless you're really high, in which case go ahead).

Note that you may pay a few minor transport fees (like 0.005btc per transaction) when you send bitcoins.  It's part of the deal and no biggie.  Just say ok.

In the block chain the only record is that bitcoins went from one address to another.  It doesn't record IP addresses (even though you're going through Tor) or anything about the sender or recipient.  It just records amounts and bitcoin addresses.

If anyone ever asks you can just say you spent them.  On what?  How can you possibly remember?  You were probably drunk that night.

I sometimes send bitcoins to random bitcoin addresses I see on the Internet just for shits and giggles (as far as you know).  I'm promoting the goddamn future of technology after all.

Now after you've mixed things up a bit, go to your Account on SR and say "gimme a new bitcoin address."  Then send some bitcoins over.  If you want to transfer 100, send some chunk like 83.12.  Then in your SR account click "gimme a new address" again and send some more (like 16.88) to the new address.  Now you'll have your 100 bitcoins at SR and there is absolutely no trail back to you (assuming you set your bitcoin client up to run through Tor, which you did, right?)

It might have STARTED with you, sure, but then it want to RANDOM bitcoin addresses that you HAD NO CONTROL OVER before it ended up at Silk Road, which of course you are morally opposed to.  Had you known some nefarious individual would have sent those bitcoins to the SILK ROAD (OMG!) you probably would never have bought them in the first place.  And if you ever find out who that bastard is who sent them to SR you'll tell LE just who it was (too bad you can't remember and have no way of finding out since the whole damn thing is anonymous).

If anyone ever asks me what I spend my bitcoins on I'll happily tell them:  I love videos of dwarf tossing.  I don't know why I find that so fucking awesome but there's this guy in the UK that fires these little guys across a pub and videotapes the whole thing.  He only accepts bitcoin for the videos though so I have to pay him in that currency.  No, I don't happen to have any of the videos any more because I feel sort of dirty after I watch them so I delete them right away.  I'll be sure to show them to LE the next time I buy one, assuming I can find that guy who tosses them again.

See my point?  Don't worry about being known at Mt. Gox.  It's *LEGAL* (and it's in Japan too--assuming you don't live there you'd have to be in some serious, EPIC-LEVEL shit to get a warrant served on your ass in another country).  Buy some bitcoins then mix it all up before you send it to SR.  Once you do that you are 99% safe.

Want to know how to get to be 100% safe?  Here's some technical shit now.  This only matters if someone comes into your house and takes your computer but if you think that's a real possibility and you aren't running full-disk encryption (wait, you're not?  what?) then here's what you can do if you're super paranoid:

The bitcoin app stores all of your transaction history and your current address in two files.  These are:

wallet.dat
addr.dat

Where they're stored on your system depends on whether you're running a Mac or Windows or Linux.  Google again for this info.

Once you have done all of this mixing of bitcoins back and forth to yourself like I described above, do one final thing:

Quit the Bitcoin app
Rename wallet.dat to wallet.dat.old
Rename addr.dat to addr.dat.old
Rerun the Bitcoin app

You'll now see that all of your transaction history is wiped out, you have a zero balance, and you have a brand new bitcoin address.

COPY that new bitcoin address, because you're going to send bitcoins to it in the next step.

Quit the bitcoin app
Rename wallet.dat to wallet.dat.new
Rename addr.dat to addr.dat.new
Rename wallet.dat.old to wallet.dat
Rename addr.dat.old to addr.dat
Start the bitcoin app

You'll see all your old transaction data and your current balance.

Now click "Send Coins" and send your entire balance to the address you copied from your new wallet.

Wait for some confirmations to come through.

After 6 confirmations it will be confirmed, so:

Quit bitcoin
Rename wallet.dat to wallet.dat.old
Rename addr.dat to addr.dat.old
Rename wallet.dat.new to wallet.dat
Rename addr.dat.new to addr.dat
Start bitcoin

In just a bit you'll see your entire balance show up on your new wallet and address.

If at this point you were to delete the wallet.dat.old and addr.dat.old files there would be absolutely NO transaction history on your computer if anyone were ever to ever take it and attempt a forensic analysis.  You're just like Kaiser Sose.  Poof.

As a general rule, whenever you spend all your bitcoins and have a zero balance in your bitcoin client you can quit it, delete the wallet.dat and addr.dat files and re-run it.  This starts you over fresh.

There is one caveat with all of these instructions I just gave.

*IF* you've given someone a wallet address to send coins to *AND* you expect them to send coins to that address more than once, then you can't just go and delete your wallet.dat and addr.dat files.  You have to store them somewhere (like on an encrypted disk) so you can restore them from time to time and receive coins sent to the address(es) they contain.

In general though unless you're not worried about exposing yourself to additional risk, it is NEVER a good idea to have someone send money to the same bitcoin address more than once.  Do so only if you absolutely must.  It is far more desirable to give people a bitcoin address and tell them it is ONE TIME USE ONLY.  This goes for setting your withdrawal address in SR or Tradehill or Mt.Gox or any other place where you can set a permanent withdrawal address.  It's ok to do it but you have to save those wallet.dat and addr.dat files somewhere or any bitcoins sent to those addresses go to the great bitcoin miner in the sky.

I hope this explains everything.  If it sounds complicated, do some test runs by purchasing a single bitcoin and send around a bunch of 0.01 bitcoin transactions.  That'll be very instructive, it'll barely cost anything, and it will teach you how to be anonymous.

To recap: Mt. Gox is great, just be straight up with them.  You aren't doing anything illegal when you do business with them.

RD

You're right. Forget that Mt.Gox has no privacy policy. Forget about identity theft. Forget about Mt.Gox selling your information. Forget that Mt.Gox's service support is atrocious. Just give them your ID.
Title: Re: MtGox Left Me Speechless.
Post by: CrunchyFrog on October 21, 2011, 03:36 am
...Go to Mt. Gox and withdraw your bitcoins to your bitcoin address.  Every time you receive bitcoins your bitcoin address will change.  This means you can turn right around and send bitcoins back to YOURSELF at your new address....Do this a few times over the course of a few hours....In the block chain the only record is that bitcoins went from one address to another.  It doesn't record IP addresses (even though you're going through Tor) or anything about the sender or recipient.  It just records amounts and bitcoin addresses.

While it's true that you *can* send bitcoins to yourself, doing so does nothing to enhance the anonymity of future transactions with those coins.  In fact, it may make things worse: drawing attention to your transfers can hardly be wise given that Mt. Gox -- and anyone else with subpoena power -- has your identity and that of the coins they sent you.

Quote from: Theymos (blockexplorer.com) discussing anonymity on Bitcointalk.org
Don't send coins from one address to a different one on the same computer. This actually reduces your anonymity because it combines several different coins (some of which, such as generations, might be pretty anonymous). It's also obvious what you're doing because Bitcoin makes a special transaction when you send coins to yourself: it includes the full public key for the destination instead of the hashed public key used in normal transactions....

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?PHPSESSID=56ba7debf6964b6e9523402479c04c8d&topic=241.msg9333#msg9333

Under the procedure you describe, what an "interested party" would see is: Mt. Gox --> you --> you --> you --> SilkRoad.  Not good (if you value anonymity).
Title: Re: MtGox Left Me Speechless.
Post by: RabidDog on October 21, 2011, 05:42 am
...Go to Mt. Gox and withdraw your bitcoins to your bitcoin address.  Every time you receive bitcoins your bitcoin address will change.  This means you can turn right around and send bitcoins back to YOURSELF at your new address....Do this a few times over the course of a few hours....In the block chain the only record is that bitcoins went from one address to another.  It doesn't record IP addresses (even though you're going through Tor) or anything about the sender or recipient.  It just records amounts and bitcoin addresses.

While it's true that you *can* send bitcoins to yourself, doing so does nothing to enhance the anonymity of future transactions with those coins.  In fact, it may make things worse: drawing attention to your transfers can hardly be wise given that Mt. Gox -- and anyone else with subpoena power -- has your identity and that of the coins they sent you.

Quote from: Theymos (blockexplorer.com) discussing anonymity on Bitcointalk.org
Don't send coins from one address to a different one on the same computer. This actually reduces your anonymity because it combines several different coins (some of which, such as generations, might be pretty anonymous). It's also obvious what you're doing because Bitcoin makes a special transaction when you send coins to yourself: it includes the full public key for the destination instead of the hashed public key used in normal transactions....

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?PHPSESSID=56ba7debf6964b6e9523402479c04c8d&topic=241.msg9333#msg9333

Under the procedure you describe, what an "interested party" would see is: Mt. Gox --> you --> you --> you --> SilkRoad.  Not good (if you value anonymity).

Removing my previous post due to misinformation.

Is it good practice then to setup multiple wallets, say via different hosts running in independent virtual machines, each one with its own Tor circuit?  I do not see how that is any different than a real-world transaction to an arbitrary, independent third party.  From each of those you could then send to a different address at SR.

Is this a better approach?

Somewhere in the transaction chain you need to have some mixing so you have plausible deniability.  I think it's ok to be identified as "someone who once owned a coin", just not the same person who spent it in a particular location.

Thoughts?
Title: Re: MtGox Left Me Speechless.
Post by: jebacPapieza on October 21, 2011, 08:48 am
Today, mtgox finally send me back my money.

Flocking thieves, I had to wait around a month and threat a lawsuit.
Title: Re: MtGox Left Me Speechless.
Post by: TheBlackDahlia on October 21, 2011, 10:16 am
Today, mtgox finally send me back my money.

Flocking thieves, I had to wait around a month and threat a lawsuit.

I wouldn't call them thieves since you did get your money back.

However, they are scum and extremely shady.
Title: Re: MtGox Left Me Speechless.
Post by: jebacPapieza on October 21, 2011, 04:05 pm
Arent they?

So, I can hold your 100,000$ from your personal account for one month? Please.
I will give it back to you. After I deposit it on my account (7% per year)... I will hold the %, though.
Title: Re: MtGox Left Me Speechless.
Post by: herpiusderpius on October 21, 2011, 04:57 pm
So what, now we have a choice between MtCocks and the MoneyPak people who charge 9000% fees? Why'd you have to go ExchB?! Why?!

Seriously though, what the fuck's the next best thing?