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Discussion => Drug safety => Topic started by: DigitalHippie on October 20, 2012, 03:22 am

Title: To All First-Time Psychedelic Users
Post by: DigitalHippie on October 20, 2012, 03:22 am
I notice that there are a lot of threads about safety of certain drugs, I've thought I'd make one about good practices for psychedelics.

FIRST AND FOREMOST: Set and setting are very important factors. That means where you are, people you are with, and what mindset you are in. I would not recommend tripping whilst under stress or with people whom you consider sketchy.

1. Fire is hot

2. If you think you can fly, start from the ground.

3. Let someone whom you trust know that you're going to trip. Tell them when, where, and on what. So if you need anything at all, they know what's going on. This can help you get out of a bad situation

4. IF a bad trip should occur, remember, it will be over relatively soon.

5. Your brain will NOT be permanently stuck in trip-state.


Here some other tips:

- If you think you're going to need anything; Food, drink, cigarettes, etc. Try to stock up on it beforehand. You want to try to avoid going out into the "sober world"

- Before you trip, think about if you want to keep your phone off, or leave it on. If you want it on, make sure it has a full charge. I, myself like to keep mine off to avoid getting a phone call that might stress me out, but to each their own.

- If you trip outside, make sure to wear clothing appropriate for the weather. Bring a water bottle, some food, and a bit of cash, if you plan on being outside all or the majority of the trip.

- Bring some things to keep yourself and possibly others entertained. One suggestion would to bring a pen and paper and maybe some cryons or coloured markers, so you can write down ideas and draw pictures. A nice voice recorder would be good too, to record your epiphanies and other interesting thoughts.

- Bring good music. If you're going to use an mp3 player, make a nice playlist of music you'd like to listen to on your psychedelic. Get it queued up so you don't have to worry about it whilst tripping.

- I suggest tripping with a few good friends rather than going to a rave or a big party. Most of the time (also depending on type of psychedelic), especially if it's your first time tripping, large groups of people can be very over stimulating and could lead to a bad trip.

- If you end up starting to get freaked out or uncomfortable - try to relax. One suggestion would be to get up and change your setting. Something as simple as switching to a new song, turning on the lights, moving to a new room, or definitely going outside somewhere secure can completely change the feel of the trip at that moment and hopefully end the negative thoughts

- AND MOST IMPORTANTLY: Go with the flow. If you think something is fun, do it! If you start to get uncomfortable, just stop.

I say this advice with only experience with acid and mushrooms, but I'm sure this advice can apply to other psychedelics too. Please feel free to add to my advice and discuss. If I see some good advice, I'll update this post.
Title: Re: To all first time psychedelic users
Post by: microRNA on October 20, 2012, 03:32 am
also if you end up starting to get freaked out or uncomfortable - try to relax, just get up and change your setting... something as simple as switching to a new song, turning on the lights, moving to a new room, or definitely going outside somewhere secure can completely change the feel of the trip at that moment and hopefully end the negative thoughts
Title: Re: To all first time psychedelic users
Post by: DigitalHippie on October 20, 2012, 03:35 am
adding to main list. Thank you, that's a good one.
Title: Re: To All First-Time Psychedelic Users
Post by: wsd23 on October 20, 2012, 04:23 am
Be sure to measure or titrate your dose properly, you can always do more drugs, its quite difficult to take them back if you decide its to intense. Especially when many psychedelics are active in very small doses.

Also, be sure to do a small sub-active dose to test if you are allergic before you start your journey. Nothing worse than coming up on something only to go into anaphylactic shock.

Good list so far though. 
Title: Re: To All First-Time Psychedelic Users
Post by: Reece on October 20, 2012, 04:36 am
More importantly, be prepared for a life-changing experience (whether the experience is positive or negative).
I have learned this the hard way by crushing my ego.
Title: Re: To All First-Time Psychedelic Users
Post by: DigitalHippie on October 20, 2012, 04:40 am
More importantly, be prepared for a life-changing experience (whether the experience is positive or negative).
I have learned this the hard way by crushing my ego.

Isn't ego death a good thing most of the time? I've heard of people in the psychedelic as well as meditation/spiritual community actually trying to achieve ego death and giving tips.
Title: Re: To All First-Time Psychedelic Users
Post by: Reece on October 20, 2012, 04:45 am
More importantly, be prepared for a life-changing experience (whether the experience is positive or negative).
I have learned this the hard way by crushing my ego.

Isn't ego death a good thing most of the time? I've heard of people in the psychedelic as well as meditation/spiritual community actually trying to achieve ego death and giving tips.

Not if accidental. Combined with severe depersonalization/derealization it can be hell.  :-\
It can change the way you view the world (taken as good or bad).
Title: Re: To All First-Time Psychedelic Users
Post by: DigitalHippie on October 20, 2012, 04:46 am
I don't partake in psychedelics but I acquire them for friends. I have antipsychotics and many flavors of benzos if someone reports a bad trip. I think a good combination to have on hand is some lorazepam or alprazolam and Seroquel. Never had to use it, just glad it is an option.

Yea, but I heard you have to be careful. A lot of psych meds don't mix too well with psychedelics. Btw: By psych meds I mean anti-depressants, anti-psychotics, mood-stabilizers, etc.
Title: Re: To All First-Time Psychedelic Users
Post by: anonymarse on October 20, 2012, 04:47 am
What about Salvia? I hear it getting a lot of shit from people saying it's always unpleasant. But if I ever did a psychedelic it's the one I was thinking about trying because it hasn't been scheduled as a serious illegal drug yet.
Title: Re: To All First-Time Psychedelic Users
Post by: Reece on October 20, 2012, 04:52 am
What about Salvia? I hear it getting a lot of shit from people saying it's always unpleasant. But if I ever did a psychedelic it's the one I was thinking about trying because it hasn't been scheduled as a serious illegal drug yet.

If you do start with Salvia, go with a low extract.
Trust me, it's better to start slow and work your way up with what you can handle.
Title: Re: To All First-Time Psychedelic Users
Post by: wsd23 on October 20, 2012, 05:41 am
Especially if you took some 25i at midnight like my dumbass friend just probably did and are tired of tripping balls at 6 am and want to sleep.

Damn hah. Guess we should add "Be sure you have ample time to recover and nothing important to do the next day." Nothing is worse than tripping balls at 3am, worrying if you will be sober enough to take you exam at 8am. Unnecessary stress.
Title: Re: To All First-Time Psychedelic Users
Post by: microRNA on October 20, 2012, 06:34 am
if youre just theorizing but dont actually first hand experience please dont recommend something to people

seroquel and psychedelics/serotonergic and dopaminergic chems can produce a horrible, possibly dangerous reaction

many years ago took some mdma and a tab of what was thought to be lsd, but ended up being DOx one of the first few times i tripped - was one of the best trips i have ever had, until after 15 hours when i was ready to sleep but wasnt coming down yet like i should have been (if it was lsd but didnt know better at the time), my friend and i decided to try to use seroquel to end the trip since it "theoretically" should work

worst fucking idea ever - ended up collapsing, having a seizure, temp shot skyward - eventually got carried out into freezing weather and had nearly all my clothes stripped off - but still was burning up/ sweating and then finally started to cool off. then had to deal with borderline tardive dyskinesia like physical symptoms and intrusive, fucked thoughts i still cant explain but am sure is what its like to be schizophrenic, along with parathesia (potential sign of peripheral nerve damage) which thank God subsided mostly over the next day

still to this day i have minor residual effects from that horrible decision but am just glad i didnt die. unfortunately i am sure my serotonergic and dopaminergic systems were stressed - even potentially permanently altered slightly which really comes out when i am highly stressed now

yes, anti-psychotics will theoretically stop a trip, and for some individuals/certain drugs it may work, but there are also obviously combinations this can be extremely dangerous

if you need to mellow out a trip then i definitely recommend a benzo - that will be the safest option by indirectly muting the effects rather than going from one extreme of the system to another directly. i am in favor of riding out a trip, not trying to escape now... but i actually really enjoy the combo when coming down now after the real trip is over - wonderful blissful relaxation and makes it easy to sleep if needed
Title: Re: To All First-Time Psychedelic Users
Post by: s1np3l0 on October 20, 2012, 06:48 pm
Thanks for all the information. I've been meaning to open up a new thread about my next question but thought I could probably ask it here - how do I chose the right psychedelic for me? I mean yeah I've read lots and lots of stuff on erowid and I'm sure this has been asked several times here and I have read it :D But would anyone who has tried several drugs in that category care to "quickly" compare those regarding duration, trip etc.? I'm particularly interested in LSD, shrooms and the 2C family. I care for the 2C family because I read it had empathogenic effects like MDMA and is good to trip with others. Also I'm interested in candy flipping (afaik LSD+MDMA). What I want is a psychedelic experience that I could enjoy with really close friends while still being able to have conversations. Don't know if that even exists but if it does, I'd like to know!
Title: Re: To All First-Time Psychedelic Users
Post by: DigitalHippie on October 20, 2012, 07:09 pm
Thanks for all the information. I've been meaning to open up a new thread about my next question but thought I could probably ask it here - how do I chose the right psychedelic for me? I mean yeah I've read lots and lots of stuff on erowid and I'm sure this has been asked several times here and I have read it :D But would anyone who has tried several drugs in that category care to "quickly" compare those regarding duration, trip etc.? I'm particularly interested in LSD, shrooms and the 2C family. I care for the 2C family because I read it had empathogenic effects like MDMA and is good to trip with others. Also I'm interested in candy flipping (afaik LSD+MDMA). What I want is a psychedelic experience that I could enjoy with really close friends while still being able to have conversations. Don't know if that even exists but if it does, I'd like to know!

That's a good question. What I would do is try a relatively low dosage of each psychedelic you're interested in. But space them out (2-4 weeks a part minimum). You may like all, you may like some, and you may like none. In my opinion, you cannot find the right psychedelic for you until you try.

Also, it depends on personal preference. Do you want something that lasts long and is pretty mild? (acid) or something shorter but more intense (shrooms). It all is a matter of opinion and a little bit of trial and error.
Title: Re: To All First-Time Psychedelic Users
Post by: s1np3l0 on October 20, 2012, 07:31 pm
Thanks for all the information. I've been meaning to open up a new thread about my next question but thought I could probably ask it here - how do I chose the right psychedelic for me? I mean yeah I've read lots and lots of stuff on erowid and I'm sure this has been asked several times here and I have read it :D But would anyone who has tried several drugs in that category care to "quickly" compare those regarding duration, trip etc.? I'm particularly interested in LSD, shrooms and the 2C family. I care for the 2C family because I read it had empathogenic effects like MDMA and is good to trip with others. Also I'm interested in candy flipping (afaik LSD+MDMA). What I want is a psychedelic experience that I could enjoy with really close friends while still being able to have conversations. Don't know if that even exists but if it does, I'd like to know!

That's a good question. What I would do is try a relatively low dosage of each psychedelic you're interested in. But space them out (2-4 weeks a part minimum). You may like all, you may like some, and you may like none. In my opinion, you cannot find the right psychedelic for you until you try.

Also, it depends on personal preference. Do you want something that lasts long and is pretty mild? (acid) or something shorter but more intense (shrooms). It all is a matter of opinion and a little bit of trial and error.
Thanks, that's already a good start - sounds like my preference would be acid since I want a milder trip and a long one too. I guess like you said it all depends on the doses one takes and I'm not planning to go for the full visual ride right from the start cause I know I'll be overwhelmed by it. So yeah, gonna check out the LSD vendor thread and look who has some good quality. Do you recommend doing a trip outside? I've heard that a lot and in that case would rather wait for spring until the weather is nice - believe this would seriously enhance not only the setting but also the set. What about mescaline? I've read that it's more spiritual than other psychedelics. Is this true? Or would it be reasonable to say you can't generalize the effects and everybody reacts differently?
Title: Re: To All First-Time Psychedelic Users
Post by: DigitalHippie on October 20, 2012, 11:24 pm
Thanks for all the information. I've been meaning to open up a new thread about my next question but thought I could probably ask it here - how do I chose the right psychedelic for me? I mean yeah I've read lots and lots of stuff on erowid and I'm sure this has been asked several times here and I have read it :D But would anyone who has tried several drugs in that category care to "quickly" compare those regarding duration, trip etc.? I'm particularly interested in LSD, shrooms and the 2C family. I care for the 2C family because I read it had empathogenic effects like MDMA and is good to trip with others. Also I'm interested in candy flipping (afaik LSD+MDMA). What I want is a psychedelic experience that I could enjoy with really close friends while still being able to have conversations. Don't know if that even exists but if it does, I'd like to know!

That's a good question. What I would do is try a relatively low dosage of each psychedelic you're interested in. But space them out (2-4 weeks a part minimum). You may like all, you may like some, and you may like none. In my opinion, you cannot find the right psychedelic for you until you try.

Also, it depends on personal preference. Do you want something that lasts long and is pretty mild? (acid) or something shorter but more intense (shrooms). It all is a matter of opinion and a little bit of trial and error.
Thanks, that's already a good start - sounds like my preference would be acid since I want a milder trip and a long one too. I guess like you said it all depends on the doses one takes and I'm not planning to go for the full visual ride right from the start cause I know I'll be overwhelmed by it. So yeah, gonna check out the LSD vendor thread and look who has some good quality. Do you recommend doing a trip outside? I've heard that a lot and in that case would rather wait for spring until the weather is nice - believe this would seriously enhance not only the setting but also the set. What about mescaline? I've read that it's more spiritual than other psychedelics. Is this true? Or would it be reasonable to say you can't generalize the effects and everybody reacts differently?
I don't have any experience with mescaline, so I can't tell you. Outside trips I heard are really nice. I'm planning on having one in the not so distant future. As long as you're in a private setting (like at a camp ground).
Title: Re: To All First-Time Psychedelic Users
Post by: TonBarBar on October 21, 2012, 03:05 am
My word of advice is to pay attention who you are doing your psychedelics with, because your interactions with other people can completely change how you feel and what you experience.

One time I took some shrooms, and so did my roommate. We parted ways for a bit on the comeup, and i really wasn't tripping at all, even after an hour or so. No real visuals, no mindfuck or anything. But when my roommate came back, he brought a whole new energy with him, and within minitues, I was giggling like a schoolgirl and tripping pretty hard.

The ability to trip was inside me the whole time, but it's like he "gave me permission" to let go of myself in a way. He just brought out that side of my personality. So just make sure you're in good company, because that's part of your set & setting, the two most important parts of a trip (other than good research of course).
Title: Re: To All First-Time Psychedelic Users
Post by: Flubber on October 22, 2012, 04:53 am
Also, it depends on personal preference. Do you want something that lasts long and is pretty mild? (acid) or something shorter but more intense (shrooms). It all is a matter of opinion and a little bit of trial and error.

I would not describe acid as mild whatsoever unless you are taking a very low dose such as a quarter of a blotter. Nor would I describe shrooms as more intense than acid. Good, fresh, acid will give you a trip that will blow your mind. Shrooms do not last as long and they are nowhere near as enjoyable in my extensive experience with both.

The suggestion to change environment if anxious or uncomfortable is excellent. You will find that simply moving to another room or switching on/off a light or going outside for a breath of fresh air will "break" the current phase and create a new one.

In addition to your regular favorite music I would suggest getting your hands on one of the following Jimi Hendrix live performances and listening to it while tripping:

Maui 1970
Berkley 1970
Atlanta 1970
Concerts Album

Hendrix loved LSD and often tripped while playing a concert. You will find yourself to be picked up by the master, taken on a trip and shown many wonderful things before he sets you back down at the end of the song and returns you to the normal world. It is an incomparable experience that all should try before they leave this life.
Title: Re: To All First-Time Psychedelic Users
Post by: parabol on October 22, 2012, 06:24 pm
If you feel something going "wrong", go and challenge it, face to face. Never let fear take over.
Title: Re: To All First-Time Psychedelic Users
Post by: DigitalHippie on October 26, 2012, 03:18 am
If you feel something going "wrong", go and challenge it, face to face. Never let fear take over.

You have a point. What I really meant was, if something you're doing recreationally feels wrong (such spinning in a circle, playing with clay, etc) than stop. However, if eating, walking, and other everyday things feels wrong, than try to challenge it. But if you really want to have a great trip, don't let fear take over, but try to refrain from things that may induce fear.
Title: Re: To All First-Time Psychedelic Users
Post by: ianfleming on October 26, 2012, 03:51 am
Quote
2. If you think you can fly, start from the ground.
I dont think anyone thinks they can fly. Thats more of a myth thing.
Title: Re: To All First-Time Psychedelic Users
Post by: TheYowie on October 26, 2012, 05:19 am
I've done a few psychs and reckon a good one to start with is 2CB.  It's quite a mild one, but it makes you feel funky and the empathic qualities are nice.  Of course only downside is it's very dose specific and 1mg makes a difference, so it's not one for eyeballing.

For me though good quality LSD is hard to top.  With friends, in a natural setting, preferably with someone who's a veteran if it's your first time....that makes for a truly memorable experience.

But if you're starting out and experimenting, 10-20mg of 2CB either tooted or bombed is a fairly gentle intro.
Title: Re: To All First-Time Psychedelic Users
Post by: Theaides on October 26, 2012, 10:30 am
Above all else, be prepared for everything and nothing at the same time.  Shit can get weird with psychedelics, you have to be able to react to your world being inverted with a sound head, even when shit gets ridiculously weird.

Don't fight what the drug wants to show you.  Even if what it seems to want to show you seems uncomfortable or frightening, it'll be worse if you try to resist it.  At the same time, you can still control the vibes of your trip easily, by not tripping when you're in a dark mood, or in settings uncomfortable for you to be in a vulnerable state, at least the first time.

Never try a new substance in an uncontrollable situation (i.e. in public), get used to it in a safe environment before you start taking it to raves or parties.  Once you get familiar with the headspace of a psychedelic its much easier to control and especially easier to gauge how much you think you could "function" on without drawing too much attention to yourself.

Last but not least, do not fear psychedelics, but respect them.  They're both recreational and an essential tool to your mind, when you start to blur that line too much you may forget to respect set and setting which is the key component to whether a trip goes great or awful.  You can always have a wonderful time on them recreationally if you are in the right mindset.
Title: Re: To All First-Time Psychedelic Users
Post by: The ILF on October 27, 2012, 02:00 am
this member of the I.L.F. hearts psychedelics!!!  in response to s1np3l0, who wanted to trip with friends, i would say,   

San Pedro (mescaline and companion alkaloids):  oh, so clean!  and so kind and noble!  if you've ever asked yourself what it would feel like to be an angel, to be close to God like that, mescaline has an answer.  the problem is only that it brings on pretty bad nausea, so doing it in public may not be the best.  usually even after I vomit, I still have some seasickness even though I'm tripping balls and marveling at how gorgeous the world is.

the flesh of the gods:  oh, so funny!  and so clever!  I have learned things about myself, my family, and the nature of life that I didn't even know I didn't know.  of the three, I would say this is the best for being out in public, though I have found that the mushies don't particularly care for urban scenes.  they much prefer smaller groups of people in a more or less "natural" setting. 

the cid:  oh, so interesting!  and such, to me, an introverted thing!  acid shows me many things about myself and my place in the world, and it often doesn't mesh well with hanging out with others, especially who are not on acid.  there's almost a bit of shame to acid -- perhaps this is because it is a white-man drug? -- that can be quite instructive.  but I have a hard time knowing what to say in conversation!  i have not yet tried candy flipping (okay, I did it once, but it was bunk acid, aka 25-i (yucky), and it was basically just rolling), but I have a feeling that the E would help the acid out in the whole how-do-i-connect respect. 

and on all of them, I have found that tripping outside is indeed awesome.  but so is tripping inside!  you can have candles and music, and you can always go outside for a walk even if it's cold.  a winter moon, your breath in the air ... beautiful!

good luck!  post trip reports when you do it!   
Title: Re: To All First-Time Psychedelic Users
Post by: yellowmattercustard on October 27, 2012, 02:15 pm
Let me put my 5 cents here:

1. Regarding set and setting: the best place to trip is outdoors (warm sunny day, private garden or a park without too much people or police). Lots of people I know agree with me: nature is MUCH better than sitting it an apartment. Beautiful, friendly, fresh air, etc.

2. Sometime on psychedelics you may feel that your friends are unfriendly, stupid and not really care of you, but try to take advantage of you. That's a bad kind of 'epiphany'. They do not, please keep that in mind :)
Title: Re: To All First-Time Psychedelic Users
Post by: DigitalHippie on December 17, 2012, 01:40 am
Let me put my 5 cents here:

1. Regarding set and setting: the best place to trip is outdoors (warm sunny day, private garden or a park without too much people or police). Lots of people I know agree with me: nature is MUCH better than sitting it an apartment. Beautiful, friendly, fresh air, etc.

2. Sometime on psychedelics you may feel that your friends are unfriendly, stupid and not really care of you, but try to take advantage of you. That's a bad kind of 'epiphany'. They do not, please keep that in mind :)

About number 1, that is true, but it's also a matter of opinion. Number 2, that is true. Although those thoughts have never consumed me, it's just a random quick thought. But yea, your friends are your friends. I only get those epiphanies when sober sadly.
Title: Re: To All First-Time Psychedelic Users
Post by: jsmithy123 on December 17, 2012, 05:58 am
Yes the trip ends, and if it is a bad trip, that is something you can cling to for sure.

BUT be aware that in a small percentage of individuals a trip or a bad trip can trigger a psychosis. If it was anything like my experience post-trip nothing felt "right". Sleep was impossible, I barely had appetite. I'd never previously experienced mania but that was what I got stuck into. What I should have done was warned those closest so they could recognize this and dose me with valium and anti-psychotics until I talked sense, instead the mania grew until I became paranoid of anyone trying to help (if you're crazy people will start treating you like a child and everyone you know focuses on you. You star in your own private Truman show. naturally your paranoia and disconnect from reality accelerates).

I'd never heard from anyone whose LSD experience triggered a latent psychosis - but then read about the risk afterwards in the literature.

Just want to add that so anyone reading this doesn't think that 24 hours later when the chemical is no longer in the body, you are guaranteed to be your old self. If you feel off a day or two later, don't ignore it just because someone says, well, it can't be the LSD that has gone now.

If you or your family has any history of psychiatric conditions it isn't really worth gambling with, IMO.