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Discussion => Security => Topic started by: microbabe on August 20, 2013, 03:18 pm

Title: Cashing out BTC
Post by: microbabe on August 20, 2013, 03:18 pm
Hey guys, so I've done a lot of research on this topic, and the only viable option I've seen so far has been LocalBitcoins.com. Anonymous visa cards seem risky, and repeated deposits in my bank account seem suspicious as well. 

I know this topic is understandably very taboo on these forums, so if anyone would be comfortable pm'ing me some advice instead, I would be VERY much appreciated.

Criteria I'm considering is
1) How quickly I can get cash for BTC
2) Level of anonymity
3) Volume of BTC I can cash out at one time/weekly
Title: Re: Cashing out BTC
Post by: microbabe on August 21, 2013, 09:13 am
EDIT: I have sent some coins into the fog, it's been about 10 hours and only part of my transfer has made it.

Is this normal? Is using the fog a good idea, or are there better alternatives? Sorry for so many questions.

Vendors who cash out frequently, what do you all do? I'm a little lost the more I explore into this.
Title: Re: Cashing out BTC
Post by: james23456 on August 21, 2013, 01:00 pm
EDIT: I have sent some coins into the fog, it's been about 10 hours and only part of my transfer has made it.

Is this normal? Is using the fog a good idea, or are there better alternatives? Sorry for so many questions.

Vendors who cash out frequently, what do you all do? I'm a little lost the more I explore into this.

I know that Bitcoin Fog is a decent, legitimate service that isn't out there to screw you over. Ten hours, and only partly transferred does seem long though. Maybe they're having problems at the moment?

As for cashing out, all vendors have different methods. I'd PM some for their advice.
Title: Re: Cashing out BTC
Post by: microbabe on August 21, 2013, 03:11 pm
Thanks James
Title: Re: Cashing out BTC
Post by: goblin on August 21, 2013, 03:34 pm
By partial amount you don't mean a very tiny percentage didn't make it, do you? Because you know that they charge a random amount between 1% and 3% of the amount to be deposited as their fee.
Title: Re: Cashing out BTC
Post by: medicineman684 on August 21, 2013, 03:39 pm
Is fog better than blockchain.info's shared send which cost only .5%?

To OP one of the best ways is to find someone on LBC or other places that wants to buy bitcoin for cash in the mail. Once you get someone steady you're set for a while. Make sure they vacuum pack and send securely though!

mm
Title: Re: Cashing out BTC
Post by: medicineman684 on August 21, 2013, 05:20 pm
Did some research and found this (clearnet warning): https://www.wi.uni-muenster.de/sites/default/files/public/department/itsecurity/mbc13/mbc13-moeser-paper.pdf

"3.6 Conclusion
We can conclude that both Bitcoin Fog and Blockchain.info
make it hard for an attacker to relate input and output
transaction. In our analysis of Bitcoin Fog we found a clear
structure, making it possible to understand how the service
works. This might make it easier for an attacker who has
additional information available to detect outgoing transactions. We were not able to find any direct connections in
the transaction graph of Blockchain.info. In the analysis of
the service BitLaundry, we found direct connections in the
transaction graph in two of our three experiments, in the
last one we directly received half of the coins, we payed in.
Thus, BitLaundry cannot be considered to reliably increase
anonymity."

Looks like blockchain.info with it's .5% fee is the winner according to this study.

mm
Title: Re: Cashing out BTC
Post by: White 0ut on August 21, 2013, 06:09 pm
http://silkroadvb5piz3r.onion/silkroad/item/1da482635e
Title: Re: Cashing out BTC
Post by: james23456 on August 21, 2013, 06:32 pm
Thanks James

No problem sweetie :) And as Goblin said, Bitcoin Fog charge a small percentage for mixing your coins up and depositing those coins into a wallet of your choice. That's how they make their money :)
Title: Re: Cashing out BTC
Post by: microbabe on August 21, 2013, 10:16 pm
Ya I understand the 1%-3%, but I'm missing 75% of my coins! Transferred 4 BTC, only 1 made it.
Title: Re: Cashing out BTC
Post by: microbabe on August 22, 2013, 02:25 am
Hey guys, so I've pretty much given up on those BTC making it to the Fog. Oh well, I have another growing problem....escrow.  My escrow has ballooned over the weekend and the beginning of this week.  I was not expecting such a strong response to my product! Nevertheless, when that escrow finally gets deposited into my account, I am going to be in a frenzy trying to cash it out to restock on 'supplies'.  Meeting people face to face with LocalBitcoins is fine if used infrequently, but I need a system in place to dump my BTC into cash weekly (if not more), and hopefully at a reasonable fee.  If the past week was an indication of future sales, I am going to need to solve this problem FAST.


Please, any expert advice is very much appreciated.  I've looked everywhere, but I don't feel safe Googling 'how do I launder bitcoins', this community is my best resource!


-Microbabe
Title: Re: Cashing out BTC
Post by: monesty on August 22, 2013, 10:55 pm
People that get in a hurry make mistakes so be careful. With localbitcoin you at least have escrow. Figure out a percentage of coin you could sell for cash deposit at bank; say 25% and 50% via cash in mail and the remaining 25% at in person meetups. You should already know that people who buy coins, buy them for less than any official exchange rate.
Title: Re: Cashing out BTC
Post by: medicineman684 on August 22, 2013, 11:09 pm
Can you purchase your wares (or materials to make them) with bitcoin?
I try to buy whatever I can with bitcoin to avoid the expense of cashing them out. You can buy a lot of stuff!

mm
Title: Re: Cashing out BTC
Post by: james23456 on August 24, 2013, 10:01 am
Can you purchase your wares (or materials to make them) with bitcoin?
I try to buy whatever I can with bitcoin to avoid the expense of cashing them out. You can buy a lot of stuff!

mm

It's definitely a good idea to do that, however if this is her primary or only source of income, she needs to be able to have some 'regular' system in place to convert them into cash.
Title: Re: Cashing out BTC
Post by: Zen Garden on August 24, 2013, 12:32 pm
Anonymous visa cards seem risky...

Umm...why? As far as I know this is the preferred method of cashing out for some vendors I've had a word with.

Zen Garden
Title: Re: Cashing out BTC
Post by: james23456 on August 25, 2013, 07:07 pm
We need some vendors to partake in this thread, because this seems to be a good topic of conversation. I'm aware of a few ways to do it myself, but have no idea what is the quickest, most anonymous method of doing so. So I'm interested myself.
Title: Re: Cashing out BTC
Post by: galileosophia on August 26, 2013, 04:06 am
Bumping this thread so that people with real solutions contribute here. 

Are there any other forum postings that cover the best ways to cash out BTC?  It would be an incredible resource to have a how-to guide on this topic.  I know of relatively slow ways of cashing out, e.g., selling otc using IRC or localbitcoins, but wonder if there is something better out there?
Title: Re: Cashing out BTC
Post by: StaticTension on August 26, 2013, 05:10 am
Bumping this thread so that people with real solutions contribute here. 

Are there any other forum postings that cover the best ways to cash out BTC?  It would be an incredible resource to have a how-to guide on this topic.  I know of relatively slow ways of cashing out, e.g., selling otc using IRC or localbitcoins, but wonder if there is something better out there?

Because it's valuable info no vendor would give out their cashing tactics for two reasons of which being:

A) They could be potentially shooting themselves in the foot by needlessly exposing themselves by divulging their tactics

B) If their cashing out tactic is working and anon then I'm sure they would like to keep it a secret instead of everyone using it and baiting up the whole scene

Honestly not to be an asshole but some answers you have to think of yourself. If you're going to be a vendor and you need someone to give you a clear cookie cutter way of cashing out then again I can think of only two reasons:

A) Your not very good at creative thinking and maybe vending is not the right career path?

B) Your a cop fishing for info on different tactics vendors use to cash out

/close stupid thread
Title: Re: Cashing out BTC
Post by: NorCalChronic on August 26, 2013, 05:21 am
localbitcoins is an excellent way to cash out. I use it and have a few repeat buyers that contact me almost daily.
I do cash only, it works pretty well.
Title: Re: Cashing out BTC
Post by: james23456 on August 26, 2013, 12:16 pm
localbitcoins is an excellent way to cash out. I use it and have a few repeat buyers that contact me almost daily.
I do cash only, it works pretty well.

Thanks for your input. So you obv don't mind meeting people in person to do cash deals. If that works well for you then great :)
Title: Re: Cashing out BTC
Post by: realdeals on August 26, 2013, 07:44 pm
you can buy a fake passport and open a bank account.
Or you can use my technieke:
buy gold with bitcoins , then sell the gold in a shop irl. (that can be done anomynous)
If you have questions pm me
Title: Re: Cashing out BTC
Post by: goblin on August 26, 2013, 08:09 pm
you can buy a fake passport and open a bank account.
Or you can use my technieke:
buy gold with bitcoins , then sell the gold in a shop irl. (that can be done anomynous)
If you have questions pm me
Partly wrong. You can buy gold anonymously in gold shops (bullion coin exchanges, etc.), but you can't sell it anonymously. All dealers, as fas as I am aware, must report all buys of gold from individuals, using real names and addresses, so they ask for ID when you sell.

goblin
Title: Re: Cashing out BTC
Post by: deep987 on August 26, 2013, 09:34 pm
Partly wrong. You can buy gold anonymously in gold shops (bullion coin exchanges, etc.), but you can't sell it anonymously. All dealers, as fas as I am aware, must report all buys of gold from individuals, using real names and addresses, so they ask for ID when you sell.

goblin
1) Needing an ID to sell gold isn't the case everywhere, maybe just your state?
2) Alternative: sell it to someone on craigslist.
3) Remember (assuming your not buying your gold from SR vendors) the store who sold it to you has your mailing address, so that's the weakest link from an anonymity point of view.
Title: Re: Cashing out BTC
Post by: MrGonzo on August 26, 2013, 09:59 pm
Anonymous visa cards seem risky...

Umm...why? As far as I know this is the preferred method of cashing out for some vendors I've had a word with.

Zen Garden
You know what else seems risky? Buying and selling drugs on the internet, we all got over that pretty quick though didn't we  8).
Title: Re: Cashing out BTC
Post by: james23456 on August 26, 2013, 10:06 pm
Quote from: MrGonzo
You know what else seems risky? Buying and selling drugs on the internet, we all got over that pretty quick though didn't we  8).

+1 karma for that  ;D
Title: Re: Cashing out BTC
Post by: realdeals on August 27, 2013, 12:31 am
Here in belgium I can sell gold anomynous to the jews in antwerp. /noracism.
They only ask id when you want to sell over 10k euro in 1 time
Title: Re: Cashing out BTC
Post by: realdeals on August 27, 2013, 12:33 am
Partly wrong. You can buy gold anonymously in gold shops (bullion coin exchanges, etc.), but you can't sell it anonymously. All dealers, as fas as I am aware, must report all buys of gold from individuals, using real names and addresses, so they ask for ID when you sell.

goblin
1) Needing an ID to sell gold isn't the case everywhere, maybe just your state?
2) Alternative: sell it to someone on craigslist.
3) Remember (assuming your not buying your gold from SR vendors) the store who sold it to you has your mailing address, so that's the weakest link from an anonymity point of view.

just use 20minutemail?
Title: Re: Cashing out BTC
Post by: NW Nugz on August 27, 2013, 04:03 am
It may be that selling gold coins that match the country you are in has less reporting requirements than other gold? I think I read that somewhere here.

I think most localbitcoin.com transactions for cash are done by mail/internet without meeting people in person. The otc/irc aspects of it have kept me away, but, I here that is where you can learn who to trust for deals that are not "in person". Once you have a person or persons that you trust, I think it becomes no big deal to do it regularly.
Title: Re: Cashing out BTC
Post by: XXXotica on August 27, 2013, 03:57 pm
Bumping this thread so that people with real solutions contribute here. 

Are there any other forum postings that cover the best ways to cash out BTC?  It would be an incredible resource to have a how-to guide on this topic.  I know of relatively slow ways of cashing out, e.g., selling otc using IRC or localbitcoins, but wonder if there is something better out there?

Because it's valuable info no vendor would give out their cashing tactics for two reasons of which being:

A) They could be potentially shooting themselves in the foot by needlessly exposing themselves by divulging their tactics

B) If their cashing out tactic is working and anon then I'm sure they would like to keep it a secret instead of everyone using it and baiting up the whole scene

Honestly not to be an asshole but some answers you have to think of yourself. If you're going to be a vendor and you need someone to give you a clear cookie cutter way of cashing out then again I can think of only two reasons:

A) Your not very good at creative thinking and maybe vending is not the right career path?

B) Your a cop fishing for info on different tactics vendors use to cash out

/close stupid thread

+100
Title: Re: Cashing out BTC
Post by: goblin on August 27, 2013, 09:25 pm
2) Alternative: sell it to someone on craigslist.
That IS the only alternative.
3) Remember (assuming your not buying your gold from SR vendors) the store who sold it to you has your mailing address, so that's the weakest link from an anonymity point of view.
No, the shop you buy gold from (at least in the US, and at least for now), does NOT require you to identify yourself, so they don't have your name nor address. But for how long, I wonder?
Title: Re: Cashing out BTC
Post by: Kiwikiikii on August 27, 2013, 09:48 pm
2) Alternative: sell it to someone on craigslist.
That IS the only alternative.
3) Remember (assuming your not buying your gold from SR vendors) the store who sold it to you has your mailing address, so that's the weakest link from an anonymity point of view.
No, the shop you buy gold from (at least in the US, and at least for now), does NOT require you to identify yourself, so they don't have your name nor address. But for how long, I wonder?


He meant buying gold with btc, they mail it to you so LE just has to backdoor their business records to see a list of people who are buying gold with bitcoin, correlate that to your area and they have u on a very small list.
Title: Re: Cashing out BTC
Post by: Kiwikiikii on August 27, 2013, 09:55 pm
IDK seems like the best way to cash out involves methods that dont involve your mailing address. Right now bitcoin is too small to start putting yourself on lists, maybe if u live in LA or NY then its not such a big deal but for everyone else theres not a whole lot of btc users so any sort of btc related activity that leaves behind an address is pretty risky.

I put up a post about a p2p cashinmail exchange, its risky considering how easy it is to cheat it but if i were to give out my address it would have to be to a random stranger who isnt involved with SR and not some business who can easy be snooped by LEO.
Title: Re: Cashing out BTC
Post by: sharonneedles on August 27, 2013, 10:08 pm
It may be that selling gold coins that match the country you are in has less reporting requirements than other gold? I think I read that somewhere here.

I think most localbitcoin.com transactions for cash are done by mail/internet without meeting people in person. The otc/irc aspects of it have kept me away, but, I here that is where you can learn who to trust for deals that are not "in person". Once you have a person or persons that you trust, I think it becomes no big deal to do it regularly.

How does OTC compare to localbtc for trading?
Title: Re: Cashing out BTC
Post by: 99herps on August 27, 2013, 10:14 pm
Because it's valuable info no vendor would give out their cashing tactics for two reasons of which being:

A) They could be potentially shooting themselves in the foot by needlessly exposing themselves by divulging their tactics

B) If their cashing out tactic is working and anon then I'm sure they would like to keep it a secret instead of everyone using it and baiting up the whole scene

Honestly not to be an asshole but some answers you have to think of yourself. If you're going to be a vendor and you need someone to give you a clear cookie cutter way of cashing out then again I can think of only two reasons:

A) Your not very good at creative thinking and maybe vending is not the right career path?

B) Your a cop fishing for info on different tactics vendors use to cash out

/close stupid thread
This.

I suspect most vendors here are using extremely insecure methods of "cashing out".

Just take a few things some people are clearly doing at the moment. First, it would be easy for a vendor who needed to narc some people out or feds to just sell cash, prepaid cards or gold here. What are the odds that the person who receives it is selling something naughty here? I'd guess pretty high.

It's the same with localbitcoins. If I were a cop, I'd just offer large amounts of cash or gold and see who shows up. What normal person is going to buy $10,000 worth of gold using bitcoin? Maybe one clean, eccentric, 50-year-old libertarian bro and the rest are probably dirty SR vendors.

As far as debit cards go, I know that if I call the police around here they'll arrive in about two minutes, therefore I suspect they could arrive at the atm about that quick. If you accidentally carried your phone or have a gps in your car they could just use the NSA data to figure out who was at the atm when you cashed out with that sombrero and sunglasses disguise.

Anyway, if whatever you are doing doesn't pass the "could they catch me if I were selling nuclear warheads filled with jihadi literature and baby-rape videos" test, you probably shouldn't view it as secure.  Of course, nobody will be answering your original question because those who talk don't know and those who know don't talk, for the reasons StaticTension mentioned.  Asking how to launder is like asking how to become president. If you can't figure it out yourself, you probably should go do something else.
Title: Re: Cashing out BTC
Post by: Kiwikiikii on August 27, 2013, 10:49 pm
Because it's valuable info no vendor would give out their cashing tactics for two reasons of which being:

A) They could be potentially shooting themselves in the foot by needlessly exposing themselves by divulging their tactics

B) If their cashing out tactic is working and anon then I'm sure they would like to keep it a secret instead of everyone using it and baiting up the whole scene

Honestly not to be an asshole but some answers you have to think of yourself. If you're going to be a vendor and you need someone to give you a clear cookie cutter way of cashing out then again I can think of only two reasons:

A) Your not very good at creative thinking and maybe vending is not the right career path?

B) Your a cop fishing for info on different tactics vendors use to cash out

/close stupid thread
This.

I suspect most vendors here are using extremely insecure methods of "cashing out".

Just take a few things some people are clearly doing at the moment. First, it would be easy for a vendor who needed to narc some people out or feds to just sell cash, prepaid cards or gold here. What are the odds that the person who receives it is selling something naughty here? I'd guess pretty high.

It's the same with localbitcoins. If I were a cop, I'd just offer large amounts of cash or gold and see who shows up. What normal person is going to buy $10,000 worth of gold using bitcoin? Maybe one clean, eccentric, 50-year-old libertarian bro and the rest are probably dirty SR vendors.

As far as debit cards go, I know that if I call the police around here they'll arrive in about two minutes, therefore I suspect they could arrive at the atm about that quick. If you accidentally carried your phone or have a gps in your car they could just use the NSA data to figure out who was at the atm when you cashed out with that sombrero and sunglasses disguise.

Anyway, if whatever you are doing doesn't pass the "could they catch me if I were selling nuclear warheads filled with jihadi literature and baby-rape videos" test, you probably shouldn't view it as secure.  Of course, nobody will be answering your original question because those who talk don't know and those who know don't talk, for the reasons StaticTension mentioned.  Asking how to launder is like asking how to become president. If you can't figure it out yourself, you probably should go do something else.

uh hate to break it to you but there is no secure method for cashing out, they all involve some level of risk. with localbitcoin u could be selling to a cop, with gold sellers they could be giving their customer lists over, with sr vendors they could be cops, with polish debit cards they could get your account frozen but polish cards suck cause the cashout limit is shit and it costs out the ass to do it and its a pita to run around town with a dozen cards pulling out $200 at a time, and of course you have to give your addy to get them so there goes your security.

Dont know what to tell u people, youre going to have to show your face, your bank account, or your address, pick one, the cops can record all three.





Title: Re: Cashing out BTC
Post by: galileosophia on August 27, 2013, 11:37 pm
Excellent discussion highlighting the PSEUDO-anonymity afforded by bitcoin.  Please, everyone be aware that no method is fully anonymous.  At some point you have to reveal who you are.  It's the same with Tor: you are not fully protected, you are just hoping to make tracing you more trouble than it's worth.

Title: Re: Cashing out BTC
Post by: medicineman684 on September 02, 2013, 03:43 am
"if whatever you are doing doesn't pass the "could they catch me if I were selling nuclear warheads filled with jihadi literature and baby-rape videos" test, you probably shouldn't view it as secure. "

ok that one made me laugh! Good point too. I would also like to put in the fact that the odds of being traced backwards from some kind of bitcoin cashout is pretty small. Think of it from the cops perspective. Most cops are LOCAL. They are concerned with local crimes including drug crimes (the local crack houses or they got a tip where a pot dealer lives so they stake it out.) SR drug deals are very different in that they are non-localized. While I'm sure there is some LEO's on here reading and taking notes, if you don't give out personal info, you don't have much to worry about it there. Most cops are also very technically illiterate. They can use the police software they have been trained on, a web browser and windows solitaire. They may have heard of SR, onion networks, encryptions, bitcoins etc but really what are they going to do?  They have no idea about any of that shit and are too busy (or in most cases even smart enough) to bother to learn. They're going to pass it on up to the DEA or something similar who have their hands full and aren't as concerned with 95% of SR small time vendors who are tiny fish to them. DEA is going after big fish selling pounds of heroin and crack and CP and LARGE financial transactions that they can trace.  Sure they'll bust someone who clearly fucks up but it's not like they're rabidly chasing down each individual vendor or even realizes someone is cashing out huge amounts of bitcoin....this shit is just invisible unless you REALLY fuckup. So yeah, play it safe, but also sleep well

A few cashout ideas that work:

- Local Bitcoins - you can't draw attention to yourself with $10,000 deals with a stranger, but you can definitely develop a clientele and move a lot of coin if you live in an urban area. Owe someone (like your landlord) money? Get their bank account info and sell bitcoin for bank transfer directly to their account and you can pay your rent with it or send money to people you owe. You can use multiple account on LBC and deal with different people to obscure any digital paper trail.

- Bitcurex cards - they're a bit of a pain but they do work.

-Bitcoin - Buy as much as you can in bitcoin. whatever you need to buy google it and see if there is either a straight bitcoin purchase or you can buy a gyft card at amazon, lowes, CVS, Sears, Fandango, a number of chain restaurants and other stuff. Lots of stuff actually. You can purchase the cards anonymously and they work on androids.  You can also buy cards from other places to pay for cellphone, WOW and tons of other stuff. There's bitmit.net, http://bitbrochure.com and so many other bitcoin economy stores and services sprouting everywhere. We just have to change our buying habits. You also get the satisfaction of using bitcoin which I love. I think it's a revolution and want to use bitcoin as much as possible. Every bitcoin deal represents money that is not going into the hands of the corporate overlords. Buy with bitcoin and fuck the system!



Title: Re: Cashing out BTC
Post by: NW Nugz on September 02, 2013, 08:52 pm
+1^ Well said!

Watch out paying bills. It will rarely draw attention, but if it does, the trail to you is easy to follow unless it does not lead to you ;-)
Title: Re: Cashing out BTC
Post by: collapses on September 03, 2013, 03:17 am
Hello, we buy bitcoins with Western Union and Moneygram.  The fee is 6% for over $2000.
Thanks
Title: Re: Cashing out BTC
Post by: medicineman684 on September 03, 2013, 10:27 pm
Yeah definitely launder your coins if selling on LBC or anywhere!!

mm
Title: Re: Cashing out BTC
Post by: White 0ut on September 04, 2013, 12:26 am
For the record I am cashing out BTC & I can provide multiple references. I have a turnaround time of about 3 days. Thanks!

http://silkroadvb5piz3r.onion/silkroad/user/131f4672fd
Title: Re: Cashing out BTC
Post by: medicineman684 on September 04, 2013, 05:31 am
While it's great to see cash out options like White-Out, I would suggest that anyone taking advantage of this on a large scale be using a PO box gotten with a fake id. If you are on Silk Road cashing out $5-$10,000 a week and getting it sent to your real name and address you're a fool. If I was LEO setting up a cash-out option like this would be one of the first things I'd do. I'm not saying White-Out or any particular vendor is LEO....likely not, but the chance exists.  If you are cashing out serious dough on a regular basis don't in ANY WAY connect it to your name or home address!
Title: Re: Cashing out BTC
Post by: Endemic on September 04, 2013, 05:55 am
If you were LE setting up a cash-out operation, how would you go about determining that the coins you're cashing out were obtained through illicit means?
Title: Re: Cashing out BTC
Post by: NW Nugz on September 04, 2013, 07:09 am
If you were LE setting up a cash-out operation, how would you go about determining that the coins you're cashing out were obtained through illicit means?
I think this could be a good point. It may deter a lot of LE action along those lines. Sadly, if LE is motivated/funded well enough and they can find the person getting the cash, they may be able to track them to any illicit operation that is generating the cashflow. Even if they don't, you still have to worry about getting caught not paying taxes on the cash if you get a lot without a great story about how you got the coins. All these issues can be protected against if good advance planning occurs. Not easy though.
Title: Re: Cashing out BTC
Post by: medicineman684 on September 04, 2013, 11:27 pm
If you were LE setting up a cash-out operation, how would you go about determining that the coins you're cashing out were obtained through illicit means?

While they can't prove anything just with that if you are cashing out large sums on SR and not through localbitcoins into your bank account it could be assumed but not proven that its from illicit means. One more piece of circumstantial evidence against you and of course puts your name/address under closer scrutiny.


Title: Re: Cashing out BTC
Post by: StaticTension on September 11, 2013, 08:50 am
If you were LE setting up a cash-out operation, how would you go about determining that the coins you're cashing out were obtained through illicit means?

While they can't prove anything just with that if you are cashing out large sums on SR and not through localbitcoins into your bank account it could be assumed but not proven that its from illicit means. One more piece of circumstantial evidence against you and of course puts your name/address under closer scrutiny.

From a recent article on Forbes:

CLEARNET: http://www.forbes.com/sites/andygreenberg/2013/09/05/follow-the-bitcoins-how-we-got-busted-buying-drugs-on-silk-roads-black-market/

The writer conducted an experiment to see how traceable Bitcoins really are. To highlight the most relevant part of the article:

"But Meiklejohn and her colleagues at UCSD and George Mason University have found that a little snooping in the blockchain can often uncover who owns which of those Bitcoin addresses. In a paper they’re presenting at the Internet Measurement Conference in Barcelona next month, they showed that they could use “clustering” methods taking advantage of clues in how bitcoins are typically aggregated or split up to identify thousands of addresses based on just a few test transactions they performed. With the data from just 344 of their own transactions, they were able to label the owners of more than a million Bitcoin addresses."

Apparently they were able to distinguish which coins came from SR by using cluster analysis on the coins. I don't if this is a 100% foolproof method but it is a solid tactic if one needed to trace the orgins of some coins.

Also there's a lot of sites that take bitcoins for payments so if you can spend some bitcoins instead of cash and things you could use in real life then take a look at :

CLEARNET: https://www.spendbitcoins.com/places/

It's just a pretty big directory of places that take Bitcoins and some parting thoughts. Typically when cashing our dirty money you have two options. You can try to hide it as much as possible or you can incorporate it into a legit business that you made. Think of your hobbies or things that you like and get creative and see how you could make money doing that. It has to be something plausible . Obviously you can't start a landscaping company and then show that all your cleints pay you in Bitcoins.
Title: Re: Cashing out BTC
Post by: NW Nugz on September 11, 2013, 12:29 pm
Typically when cashing our dirty money you have two options. You can try to hide it as much as possible or you can incorporate it into a legit business that you made. Think of your hobbies or things that you like and get creative and see how you could make money doing that. It has to be something plausible . Obviously you can't start a landscaping company and then show that all your cleints pay you in Bitcoins.
Technically, you could call it "Bitcoin Lanscape Services" and only accept Btc. Claim you were doing it that way to support the alternative currency. To avoid issues over jobs needing to be paid for by locals - unless you want to claim your clients fly you all over the nation or world to do landscaping - it might work better to be "Bitcoin Landscape Design", since you can do that remotely.