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Discussion => Security => Topic started by: HarmReduction on August 19, 2013, 10:07 pm

Title: BTC is going to boom once again.
Post by: HarmReduction on August 19, 2013, 10:07 pm
Germany is to impose a 25pc capital gains tax on Bitcoin transactions following a ruling that the virtual currency is a form of money.
The German Finance Ministry ruled that Bitcoin is a “unit of account”, and therefore 'mining' them is a form of “money creation”.

This means that, like stocks or shares, any profit from them is subject to Germany’s capital gains tax, at 25pc – unless they are held for more than a year, according to German newspaper Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung.

Translated from the  Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung.

[ The internet currency Bitcoin has taken another important step towards legal certainty in Germany. Thus, the federal government recognizes the digital currency as a "unit of account" to. This makes them a kind of "private money", which can be used in "multilateral clearing circles". The production of bitcoins is therefore "private money creation" as the Federal Ministry of Finance announced. To enable the digital currency is accepted and tax law. This emerges from a request from the FDP deputies Frank Schaeffler, which of the FAZ. The Ministry of Finance has recently often busy with Bitcoins. So also was known by a request from Schaffler that gains from Bitcoins after one year are exempt. The Treasury treats them so differently than stocks, funds or certificates. These are subject to a final withholding tax of 25 percent. The Ministry of Finance explained that the sale of Bitcoins after a year was a private sale transaction within the meaning of the Income Tax Act.

This can be quite relevant for Bitcoins users. Has, for example, exactly one year ago a user covered with 100 bitcoins, he had to pay for about $ 1,000. But already in April cost the same amount of Bitcoins more than 26,000 dollars. This should also be paid $ 6,500 withholding tax. Keeps the user on the other hand Bitcoins contrast to today, eliminating the tax. And currently this amount Bitcoins are still worth $ 11,000, representing $ 2,750 withholding tax.

Authorities fear money laundering
In detail would be to clarify the question, how to trade in Bitcoins also accumulates tax. Because sales of the digital currency are not subject to sales tax exemption, as is evident from the response of the Treasury. Nevertheless, experts do not expect that this tax for individuals is incurred. Only to commercial dealers and trading platforms, the VAT could get. Even the Financial BaFin has been working for some time with the subject. In the leaflet "Financial Instruments" states that Bitcoins are the currency equivalent - that other currencies. In addition, the Fidor Bank has applied for a license at the BaFin. In collaboration with a German Bitcoin platform they want to trade the currency internet. Although the trade is notifiable, but does not require permission. The Fidor Bank would still like to play it safe and get pre-approved trading.]

Also, check in the United States, the authorities for quite some time, transactions with Bitcoins. Be feared, among other money laundering and abuse of digital currency.

However, the ruling may prove difficult to enforce, as Bitcoin are traded anonymously, and therefore cannot be traced.

In June, America's Internal Revenue Service (IRS) said it was examining the use of virtual currencies such as bitcoins amid fears that Americans are using them to evade taxes.
In future, taxpayers could be forced to disclose to the IRS whether they are using PayPal accounts for the virtual transfer of money, according to Victor Lessoff, director of the IRS.
Title: Re: Germany plans tax on bitcoin after virtual currency recognised as 'private money
Post by: SmokesHisBroccoli on August 19, 2013, 10:10 pm
And this is why Germany has money while the majority of the rest of Europe is broke as a joke. 

And I'm just smh at the FBI.  What a joke.  How the hell do they know what we spent our bitcoins on?  Gifts up to a certain dollar amount are nontaxable in the US so I hereby declare every bitcoin I've ever received or given away was purely a gift.   
Title: Re: Germany plans tax on bitcoin after virtual currency recognised as 'private money
Post by: kybzmsrf on August 20, 2013, 08:30 am
I read the article (http://www.faz.net/aktuell/finanzen/devisen-rohstoffe/digitale-waehrung-deutschland-erkennt-bitcoins-als-privates-geld-an-12535059.html) and the thread's title is quite misleading imho.

There's not a tax on bitcoins. What changes is that bitcoins are now officially considered being a kind of money rather than a good. Thus any kind of tax that applies to buying/selling something for money or making money in general now also legally applies to transactions using bitcoins.

If people really declare those is totally unrelated and is the same with trades involving cash.
Title: Re: Germany plans tax on bitcoin after virtual currency recognised as 'private money
Post by: modziw on August 20, 2013, 08:36 am
I read the article (http://www.faz.net/aktuell/finanzen/devisen-rohstoffe/digitale-waehrung-deutschland-erkennt-bitcoins-als-privates-geld-an-12535059.html) and the thread's title is quite misleading imho.

There's not a tax on bitcoins. What changes is that bitcoins are now officially considered being a kind of money rather than a good. Thus any kind of tax that applies to buying/selling something for money or making money in general now also legally applies to transactions using bitcoins.

If people really declare those is totally unrelated and is the same with trades involving cash.

Thanks, that makes a lot more sense. So now bitcoins are not barter but cash money and no tax leniency associated with barter would apply.

This is good - very good - for Bitcoins. I would expect a value jump of 25-50%. Germany is no joke.

Modzi
Title: Re: Germany plans tax on bitcoin after virtual currency recognised as 'private money
Post by: schuldig on August 20, 2013, 09:50 am
I read the article (http://www.faz.net/aktuell/finanzen/devisen-rohstoffe/digitale-waehrung-deutschland-erkennt-bitcoins-als-privates-geld-an-12535059.html) and the thread's title is quite misleading imho.

There's not a tax on bitcoins. What changes is that bitcoins are now officially considered being a kind of money rather than a good. Thus any kind of tax that applies to buying/selling something for money or making money in general now also legally applies to transactions using bitcoins.

If people really declare those is totally unrelated and is the same with trades involving cash.

Yeah this guys interpretation is a lot better. The title is very misleading. Seems like BTC is going to boom once again.
Title: Re: Germany plans tax on bitcoin after virtual currency recognised as 'private money
Post by: HarmReduction on August 20, 2013, 11:14 am

Yeah this guys interpretation is a lot better. The title is very misleading. Seems like BTC is going to boom once again.
[/quote]
Noticed I have now changed the title I previously only used the headline from the media source
Title: Re: BTC is going to boom once again.
Post by: schuldig on August 20, 2013, 01:12 pm
Thank you for finding the article HarmReduction, great job!
However I am not 100% if we as simple minded people, sorry if I offend anyone, can predict the fluctuations of BTC. However I have the same feeling as you do because BTC becomes more acceptable in public and isn't seen as a joke currency anymore.
Title: Re: BTC is going to boom once again.
Post by: modziw on August 20, 2013, 01:57 pm
Thank you for finding the article HarmReduction, great job!
However I am not 100% if we as simple minded people, sorry if I offend anyone, can predict the fluctuations of BTC. However I have the same feeling as you do because BTC becomes more acceptable in public and isn't seen as a joke currency anymore.

So if we say it it's simple-minded, but if you say it, it's wise.

I like that. You remind me of myself... Humble.

Modzi
Title: Re: BTC is going to boom once again.
Post by: vansprinkel on August 20, 2013, 10:31 pm
All they have to do is go after the brokers and that will all but kill bitcoins. The masses don't want to have to meet some stranger and do a cash exchange. Kind of defeats the purpose when you could just do that with your drug dealer you know?
Title: Re: BTC is going to boom once again.
Post by: photonsounds on August 20, 2013, 11:54 pm
You all laugh but in reality unless you're buying from someone face to face, they can kind of impose a tax. A lot of companies are now forced to verify a BTC buyers identity, as we all know. At least that's how it is in America from what I've experienced. Bit Instant was awesome back in the day. Anonymous MG buying, instant. Then they got to them. There are few sites that don't and then those who don't have ridiculous fees. Personally, I'd rather pay a tax and even pay the fee for a coin tumbler as opposed to some of the ridiculousness I have seen (like 15% + $15. holy shit...I was ready to buy $2,000 anonymously recently until I got to the checkout and was slammed with fees. I'll fog/tumble it for cheaper and with tying the original purchase to my name.)


They can hassle the hell out of anonymous BTC sellers because:
1. As buyers we generally want to know the seller is legit. We don't want to get ripped off. So therefore:
2. The seller sets up support and contact information and is open about their operation. They want to seem legit. So therefore:
3. The government can hassle them about it until they either: a) start to require verified purchases or b) shut down their service (Or as in the case of bitinstant, both.)

Maybe I have a flawed logic here. I want to believe BTC is free and awesome and fuck tha' police. But these assholes in suits who make laws 'in our best interest' sure have ways of cornering companies. Once a BTC seller goes from being an individual selling under the table to an organization, they're subject to being yanked around by the balls.
Title: Re: BTC is going to boom once again.
Post by: cactuschomper on August 21, 2013, 02:17 am
Wonder how many years in legislation it will take just to implement a few of these BTC tax laws.

Oh well I don't mind, all the attention is only helping my wallet. :P