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Discussion => Security => Topic started by: SynthesisWizard on September 07, 2013, 01:27 am

Title: Google and the NSA: Who’s holding the ‘shit-bag’ now?
Post by: SynthesisWizard on September 07, 2013, 01:27 am
This is the wikileaks artice    http://wikileaks.org/Op-ed-Google-and-the-NSA-Who-s.html   

It basically says that google is very very complaiant with the NSA, There is no news there, But it points out some very strange facts about google's representatives and their ties to the whitehouse.

Quote
It was revealed last week, thanks to Edward Snowden, that Google and other US tech companies received millions of dollars from the NSA for their compliance with the PRISM mass surveillance system.

So just how close is Google to the US securitocracy? Back in 2011 I had a meeting with Eric Schmidt, the then-Chairman of Google, who came out to see me with three other people while I was under house arrest. You might suppose that coming to see me was gesture that he and the other big boys at Google were secretly on our side, that they support what we at WikiLeaks are struggling for: justice, government transparency, and privacy for individuals. But that would be a false supposition. Their agenda was much more complex, and as we found out, was inextricable from that of the US State Department. The full audio and transcript of our meeting is available online here.

The pretext for their visit was that Schmidt was then researching a new book, a banal tome which has since come out as The New Digital Age. My less than enthusiastic review of this book was published in the New York Times in late May of this year. On the back of that book are a series of pre-publication endorsements: Henry Kissinger, Bill Clinton, Madeleine Albright, Michael Hayden (former head of the CIA and NSA) and Tony Blair. Inside the book Henry Kissinger appears once again, this time given pride of place in the acknowledgements.

Schmidt’s book is not about communicating with the public. He is worth $6.1 billion and does not need to sell books. Rather, this book is a mechanism by which Google seeks to project itself into Washington. It shows Washington that Google can be its partner, its geopolitical visionary, who will help Washington see further about America’s interests. And by tying itself to the US state, Google thereby cements its own security, at the expense of all competitors.

Two months after my meeting with Eric Schmidt, WikiLeaks had a legal reason to call Hillary Clinton and to document that we were calling her. It is interesting that if you call the front desk of the State Department and ask for Hillary Clinton, you can actually get pretty close, and we have become quite good at this. Anyone who has seen Doctor Strangelove may remember the fantastic scene when Peter Sellers calls the White House from a payphone on the army base and is put on hold as his call gradually moves through the levels. Well, WikiLeaks journalist Sarah Harrison, pretending to be my PA, put through our call to the State Department and, like Peter Sellers, we started moving through the levels, and eventually we got up to Hillary Clinton’s senior legal advisor, who said that we would be called back.

Shortly afterwards another one of our people, WikiLeaks’ ambassador Joseph Farrell, received a call back to discuss the parametres of the call with Hillary, not from the State Department, but from Lisa Shields, the then-girlfriend of Eric Schmidt, who does not formally work for the US State Department. So let’s reprise this situation: The Chairman of Google’s girlfriend was being used as a back channel for Hillary Clinton. This is illustrative. It shows that at this level of US society, as in other corporate states, it is all musical chairs.

That visit from Google while I was under house arrest was, as it turns out, an unofficial visit from the State Department. Just consider the people who accompanied Schmidt on that visit: his girlfriend Lisa Shields, Vice President for Communications at the Council on Foreign Relations; Scott Malcolmson, former State Department advisor; and Jared Cohen, advisor to both Hillary Clinton and Condoleezza Rice, a kind of Generation Y Kissinger figure — a noisy Quiet American as the novelist Graham Greene might have put it.

Google started out as part of Californian graduate student culture around San Francisco’s Bay Area. But as Google grew it encountered the big bad world. It encountered barriers to its expansion in the form of complex political networks and foreign regulations. So it started doing what big bad American companies do, from Coca Cola to Northrop Grumman. It started leaning heavily on the State Department for support, and by doing so it entered into the Washington DC system. A recently released statistic shows that Google now spends even more money than Lockheed Martin on paid lobbyists in Washington.

Jared Cohen was the co-writer of Eric Schmidt’s book, and his role as the bridge between Google and the State Department speaks volumes about how the US securitocracy works. Cohen used to work directly for the State Department and was a close advisor to both Condoleezza Rice and Hillary Clinton. But since 2010 he has been Director of Google Ideas, its in-house ‘think/do’ tank.

Documents published last year by WikiLeaks obtained from the US intelligence contractor Stratfor, show that in 2011 Jared Cohen, then (as he is now) Director of Google Ideas, was off running secret missions to the edge of Iran in Azerbaijan. In these internal emails, Fred Burton, Stratfor’s Vice President for Intelligence and a former State Department official, describes Google as follows:

    Google is getting WH [White House] and State Dept support and air cover. In reality they are doing things the CIA cannot do…[Cohen] is going to get himself kidnapped or killed. Might be the best thing to happen to expose Google’s covert role in foaming up-risings, to be blunt. The US Gov’t can then disavow knowledge and Google is left holding the shit-bag.

In further internal communication, Burton subsequently clarifies his sources on Cohen’s activities as Marty Lev, Google’s director of security and safety and... Eric Schmidt.

WikiLeaks cables also reveal that previously Cohen, when working for the State Department, was in Afghanistan trying to convince the four major Afghan mobile phone companies to move their antennas onto US military bases. In Lebanon he covertly worked to establish, on behalf of the State Department, an anti-Hezbollah Shia think tank. And in London? He was offering Bollywood film executives funds to insert anti-extremist content into Bollywood films and promising to connect them to related networks in Hollywood. That is the Director of Google Ideas. Cohen is effectively Google’s director of regime change.

That Google was taking NSA money in exchange for handing over people’s data comes as no surprise. When Google encountered the big bad world, Google itself got big and bad.

Title: Re: Google and the NSA: Who’s holding the ‘shit-bag’ now?
Post by: comsec on September 07, 2013, 04:07 am
DC is wholesale corrupt and fully debauched. Read the book ‘This Town’ by Mark Leibovich a NYT reporter on more horror stories of DC.

Problem for Google is nobody trusts them anymore and are looking overseas to make the next Google in Netherlands, Iceland or Germany. They are probably going to be the one's most hit by the NSA spying fallout when they lose 200+ billion over the next couple of years. http://www.dailyfinance.com/on/nsa-spying-scandal-cloud-computing-lost-business/

Title: Re: Google and the NSA: Who’s holding the ‘shit-bag’ now?
Post by: StaticTension on September 07, 2013, 04:42 am
Couple of years ago I used to love Google until I realized what they are. A money hunger company that offers your free services to collect data on you and then use that data to sell Google ads to advertisers which in turn Google will display those ads too you. It's true what they say that nothing in life is free especially when it comes to Google. It's actually not free and could cost you more in the long run for using there services. I relish the day that they won't exist.
Title: Re: Google and the NSA: Who’s holding the ‘shit-bag’ now?
Post by: Baraka on September 07, 2013, 06:51 am
If you receive free services online or really anywhere then YOU are the product being sold. That applies to Google and FB as much as any other mega corps.
Title: Re: Google and the NSA: Who’s holding the ‘shit-bag’ now?
Post by: Baraka on September 07, 2013, 07:59 am
Quote
All they care about is making money for themselves

Nothing wrong with that! Self interest is good. What IS wrong is that they're exercising it with all out government protection. Read Assange's post carefully. He describes the fascist regime which regulates and taxes the competitors of the mega corps out of existence. Google is described as being part of the public-private revolving door maybe better than I've EVER heard it before. I mean Schmidt's fucking girlfriend being used as a go-between for Hillary?? The fucking scumbag head of Google's own thinktank being in central Asia "doing things the CIA cannot do"??! Holy fucking Christ!!!  :o :o :o

This is EXACTLY what's wrong with the world today and why we're about as far as we can possibly be from a free market. These people are scum who deserve to die. And their companies all need to be burned to the ground. I'm against a violent response to this shit but that's how I feel deep down when reading about it.  >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
Title: Re: Google and the NSA: Who’s holding the ‘shit-bag’ now?
Post by: StaticTension on September 07, 2013, 09:04 am
Government doesn't give a shit about Google as long as they keep filling their pockets. In 2005 one of the many lawsuits againest Google was because of an incident or I guess you can say incidents. During that time period they were working on a project to map the streets which involved driving through neighbourhoods in the UK in their little Google mobile. Well apparently someone forgot to turn off a switch because as they passed through neighbourhoods they were supposedly unintentionally cracking peoples wi-fi as they passed through. I think that was on Wikileaks but I'd have to dig it up. It was a heft 20 page report of violations charged on Google but again I'm not sure what become of that. Knowing Google they prolly just paid someone off to make it disappear.
Title: Re: Google and the NSA: Who’s holding the ‘shit-bag’ now?
Post by: Isobetadine on September 07, 2013, 06:33 pm
Couple of years ago I used to love Google until I realized what they are. A money hunger company that offers your free services to collect data on you and then use that data to sell Google ads to advertisers which in turn Google will display those ads too you. It's true what they say that nothing in life is free especially when it comes to Google. It's actually not free and could cost you more in the long run for using there services. I relish the day that they won't exist.

I used to love google for the way they threated their employees and the values they pretended to have in regards of the future of mankind etc. etc. (remember their old speeches:))...but always remained sceptical.
(remember that movie the net;))

Well if something is too good to be true ..it usually is and google is no different.
Will always appreciate improvements they brought but when business expands to the scale of these mega corporations it is more likely to display the worst of our human nature..

It will always be the same vicious cycle if we keep using "the free market" as an excuse to expand to a point where important values and the original mission get surpassed and become of little importance.
We then enter the realm of scrupulous and corrupt goals.
Title: Re: Google and the NSA: Who’s holding the ‘shit-bag’ now?
Post by: Bazille on September 07, 2013, 07:11 pm
Google encrypts data amid backlash against NSA spying

Google is racing to encrypt the torrents of information that flow among its data centers around the world in a bid to thwart snooping by the NSA and the intelligence agencies of foreign governments, company officials said Friday.

The move by Google is among the most concrete signs yet that recent revelations about the National Security Agency’s sweeping surveillance efforts have provoked significant backlash within an American technology industry that U.S. government officials long courted as a potential partner in spying programs.

“It’s an arms race,” said Eric Grosse, vice president for security engineering at Google, based in Mountain View, Calif. “We see these government agencies as among the most skilled players in this game.”

http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/technology/google-encrypts-data-amid-backlash-against-nsa-spying/2013/09/06/9acc3c20-1722-11e3-a2ec-b47e45e6f8ef_story.html
Title: Re: Google and the NSA: Who’s holding the ‘shit-bag’ now?
Post by: SynthesisWizard on September 07, 2013, 11:11 pm
Google encrypts data amid backlash against NSA spying

Google is racing to encrypt the torrents of information that flow among its data centers around the world in a bid to thwart snooping by the NSA and the intelligence agencies of foreign governments, company officials said Friday.

The move by Google is among the most concrete signs yet that recent revelations about the National Security Agency’s sweeping surveillance efforts have provoked significant backlash within an American technology industry that U.S. government officials long courted as a potential partner in spying programs.

“It’s an arms race,” said Eric Grosse, vice president for security engineering at Google, based in Mountain View, Calif. “We see these government agencies as among the most skilled players in this game.”

http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/technology/google-encrypts-data-amid-backlash-against-nsa-spying/2013/09/06/9acc3c20-1722-11e3-a2ec-b47e45e6f8ef_story.html

I have gotta say, More bullshit in my opinion. They were the same as microsoft, giving the NSA access to all their data before they encrypted it. So they could still say they encrypted their information, They just left out the part where they gave it all away beforehand.

Some of the things said in this thread are very true, Covered up, but true. Im surprised no news agencies have picked it up...I wonder why.
Google are just full of shit, The whole way.  They know for a fact the nsa could shut them down in a heartbeat , hell they probably have them blackmailed right now, Google is the Us governments bitch.

Sw
Title: Re: Google and the NSA: Who’s holding the ‘shit-bag’ now?
Post by: Tiger on September 07, 2013, 11:19 pm
Google encrypts data amid backlash against NSA spying

Google is racing to encrypt the torrents of information that flow among its data centers around the world in a bid to thwart snooping by the NSA and the intelligence agencies of foreign governments, company officials said Friday.

The move by Google is among the most concrete signs yet that recent revelations about the National Security Agency’s sweeping surveillance efforts have provoked significant backlash within an American technology industry that U.S. government officials long courted as a potential partner in spying programs.

“It’s an arms race,” said Eric Grosse, vice president for security engineering at Google, based in Mountain View, Calif. “We see these government agencies as among the most skilled players in this game.”

http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/technology/google-encrypts-data-amid-backlash-against-nsa-spying/2013/09/06/9acc3c20-1722-11e3-a2ec-b47e45e6f8ef_story.html

I have gotta say, More bullshit in my opinion. They were the same as microsoft, giving the NSA access to all their data before they encrypted it. So they could still say they encrypted their information, They just left out the part where they gave it all away beforehand.

Some of the things said in this thread are very true, Covered up, but true. Im surprised no news agencies have picked it up...I wonder why.
Google are just full of shit, The whole way.  They know for a fact the nsa could shut them down in a heartbeat , hell they probably have them blackmailed right now, Google is the Us governments bitch.

Sw

With all this in mind, Google Glass worries me somewhat. I predict a shit storm.
Title: Re: Google and the NSA: Who’s holding the ‘shit-bag’ now?
Post by: bitfool on September 08, 2013, 04:48 am
Sorry, there was a little omission here

"Google encrypts data amid backlash against NSA spying"

should have been

"Google encrypts data amid backlash against NSA spying and hands all keys to their accomplices, the US military"

signed : washington post editor

Title: Re: Google and the NSA: Who’s holding the ‘shit-bag’ now?
Post by: StaticTension on September 08, 2013, 07:49 am
Sorry, there was a little omission here

"Google encrypts data amid backlash against NSA spying"

should have been

"Google encrypts data amid backlash against NSA spying and hands all keys to their accomplices, the US military"

signed : washington post editor

Yep pretty much.. NSA is notorious for insisting that they get keys for encryption from providers and for certain companies that there name starts with the letter 'M' that their OS and programs installed have an accessible backdoor. Why does one man like the creator of Lavabit has the balls to stand up to the Government and say 'No I will not hand over my customers info because they trusted me!' , when you have a company like Google that could possibly have the power and money to actually change the way things are instead does what they're told. I'll tell you why. It's because of different values. Google doesn't care about you or me they just care about the almighty dollar. You can say well everyone doesn't really care and that's wrong because clearly the owner of Lavabit throw away his company that he built instead of having his customers privacy and trust invaded. That's values.
Title: Re: Google and the NSA: Who’s holding the ‘shit-bag’ now?
Post by: Bazille on September 08, 2013, 10:07 am
Google doesn't care about you or me they just care about the almighty dollar.

True. And because they care about the dollar, they need to make sure there is no unnecessary possibility for the NSA to spy on the data of their customers. The more it is revealed how Google helped the NSA, the more dollars they will lose. Google was one of the first companies which published LE request statistics on their website. I wonder how many dollars they made with that.
Title: Re: Google and the NSA: Who’s holding the ‘shit-bag’ now?
Post by: bitfool on September 10, 2013, 12:55 am
Quote
The more it is revealed how Google helped the NSA, the more dollars they will lose.

Not really.

Also, it's pretty funny (not really funny actually) that google had the cheek to come up with a motto like "don't be evil", or to leave China because they were oh so disgusted by censorship.

In reality they are morally worthless idiots who pretend to have the high moral ground. Only good old America can produce that kind of garbage...

Title: Re: Google and the NSA: Who’s holding the ‘shit-bag’ now?
Post by: Hitch on September 10, 2013, 01:54 am
Quote
The more it is revealed how Google helped the NSA, the more dollars they will lose.

Not really.

Also, it's pretty funny (not really funny actually) that google had the cheek to come up with a motto like "don't be evil", or to leave China because they were oh so disgusted by censorship.

In reality they are morally worthless idiots who pretend to have the high moral ground. Only good old America can produce that kind of garbage...

   Google has been very lucky to maintain their reputation as "the" progressive corporation for as long as they have. They've been in bed with the intelligence agencies since at least 2004 when they designed and built an inter-agency search and data sharing platform known as intellipedia. Google Earth exists due to technology sold to Google by a CIA puppet company called in-Q-tel.

   There's more, I can't remember off the top of my head, but yeah, Google rapidly, energetically, hollowed out any real enlightened foundational ethos it had, if indeed it actually ever did have any.
Title: Re: Google and the NSA: Who’s holding the ‘shit-bag’ now?
Post by: Bazille on September 10, 2013, 11:59 am
In reality they are morally worthless idiots who pretend to have the high moral ground. Only good old America can produce that kind of garbage...

Then why do they use their money to push Perfect Forward Secrecy since 2011? They have nothing to gain from it.  Who cared about PFS in 2011? No one.

Why did they push PFS to their users (Gmail etc.) when they have nothing to gain from it? No one even knew they did it, because no one reads their blog. PFS causes more load on their servers, so it costs them more money to run it. Why do they do that if they are morally worthless idiots?

Perfect Forward Secrecy makes sure that even when an encryption key gets compromised all past sessions are still safely encrypted. Only future sessions can be decrypted with the stolen key. Google wants all your data, but they want it for themselves, not for the NSA. And because of the recent moves the NSA will have to come through the front door and ask Google for the data, instead of stealing it without Google knowing it by tapping into cables.

I'm not saying the Google is safe to use, because NSA can still fuck around by threatening them with violence, but Google makes it harder for the NSA to do what they do. And PFS is not a closed source standard which you have to pay money for. It's open source and everyone can use it on their webserver now. Thanks to Google pushing it it's also available in many web browsers.

Google can be a valuable ally in this war.
Title: Re: Google and the NSA: Who’s holding the ‘shit-bag’ now?
Post by: kittenfluff on September 10, 2013, 04:03 pm
In reality they are morally worthless idiots who pretend to have the high moral ground. Only good old America can produce that kind of garbage...

Then why do they use their money to push Perfect Forward Secrecy since 2011? They have nothing to gain from it.  Who cared about PFS in 2011? No one.

Why did they push PFS to their users (Gmail etc.) when they have nothing to gain from it? No one even knew they did it, because no one reads their blog. PFS causes more load on their servers, so it costs them more money to run it. Why do they do that if they are morally worthless idiots?

Perfect Forward Secrecy makes sure that even when an encryption key gets compromised all past sessions are still safely encrypted. Only future sessions can be decrypted with the stolen key. Google wants all your data, but they want it for themselves, not for the NSA. And because of the recent moves the NSA will have to come through the front door and ask Google for the data, instead of stealing it without Google knowing it by tapping into cables.

I'm not saying the Google is safe to use, because NSA can still fuck around by threatening them with violence, but Google makes it harder for the NSA to do what they do. And PFS is not a closed source standard which you have to pay money for. It's open source and everyone can use it on their webserver now. Thanks to Google pushing it it's also available in many web browsers.

Google can be a valuable ally in this war.

I generally agree with this. I think google has to walk a fine line. They offer a lot for 'free', but they need to pay for it all. If they want to 'harvest' info on me to direct ads my way, that I can then ignore, so that I can continue to receive a 'free' service, I'm fine with that. I'm just not so fine with the content of my emails, phone calls, and messages being handed over to the NSA, though I recognise that they may not actually have much choice about that. So, I don't think they always get it right, but I do think they *generally* have the best intentions.

I would like to point out something else that I think google has been fantastic in initiating (though this may be considered contraversial); Android. With their current monopoly over distribution and development, as well as how integrated it is to other google services, it might not seem like it right now, but I think this could turn out to be a real and significant boon for digital freedom in the iCrap-age. For starters, it's not secret and proprietry. It's not a walled garden. For now, the only parallel development I know of is CynaogenMod, but I live in hope that and Android equiv. of Liberte Linux/Tails/Whonix will come along. Without the money that google had to throw behind the project all we'd be left with are phone OS like iPhones, Blackberries, or Windows - even if a collective of developers could build and Android-like OS from scratch, how would they persuade phone manufacturers to build a device for it?

That said, google should have been the first to blow the whistle on this shit, especially after they got the hell out of China. They should have upped-sticks, relocated to South America, then shouted out to the rooftops about how they were being leaned on by the NSA. But I guess they didn't want to stray too far from the action in Silacone Valley...
Title: Re: Google and the NSA: Who’s holding the ‘shit-bag’ now?
Post by: Bazille on September 10, 2013, 09:24 pm
For now, the only parallel development I know of is CynaogenMod, but I live in hope that and Android equiv. of Liberte Linux/Tails/Whonix will come along. Without the money that google had to throw behind the project all we'd be left with are phone OS like iPhones, Blackberries, or Windows - even if a collective of developers could build and Android-like OS from scratch, how would they persuade phone manufacturers to build a device for it?

The Tor developer Jacob Appelbaum spoke before the EU parliament a week ago. There he also mentioned the prototype of a phone with strong encryption capabilities. I bet we will hear more about that in the future.
Here he's talking about it at 2:29:30

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cu6accTBjfs

The EU parliament is quite upset about the NSA btw.
Title: Re: Google and the NSA: Who’s holding the ‘shit-bag’ now?
Post by: Christy Nugs on September 11, 2013, 05:09 am
Quote
All they care about is making money for themselves

Nothing wrong with that! Self interest is good. What IS wrong is that they're exercising it with all out government protection. Read Assange's post carefully. He describes the fascist regime which regulates and taxes the competitors of the mega corps out of existence. Google is described as being part of the public-private revolving door maybe better than I've EVER heard it before. I mean Schmidt's fucking girlfriend being used as a go-between for Hillary?? The fucking scumbag head of Google's own thinktank being in central Asia "doing things the CIA cannot do"??! Holy fucking Christ!!!  :o :o :o

This is EXACTLY what's wrong with the world today and why we're about as far as we can possibly be from a free market. These people are scum who deserve to die. And their companies all need to be burned to the ground. I'm against a violent response to this shit but that's how I feel deep down when reading about it.  >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(

^^^ this - except ima all for a violent response as it has gone too far for anything else.

a little revolution every 25 yrs or so would be a good thing for this republic. " thomas jefferson " - might not be exact quote but whatever.

and as far as the corporate douche bags go - if i had a dick i would fuck bill gates ass till it was torn to shreds. and the rest of the parasites too!

was that too harsh?
Title: Re: Google and the NSA: Who’s holding the ‘shit-bag’ now?
Post by: kittenfluff on September 11, 2013, 09:37 am
The Tor developer Jacob Appelbaum spoke before the EU parliament a week ago. There he also mentioned the prototype of a phone with strong encryption capabilities. I bet we will hear more about that in the future.
Here he's talking about it at 2:29:30

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cu6accTBjfs

The EU parliament is quite upset about the NSA btw.

Thanks for the info, I'll watch the whole thing when I have a spare 3.5h. TBH, I fucking glad someone is upset by this; I cannot believe how complacent so many governments and corporations seem to be. I thought the weakening of 'commercial' encryption, that puts at risk legit banking and commerce, would for sure kick up a massive shit-storm. But a couple of days later and apart from a few obvious and notable voices you'd never have known that it was reported that NSA/GCHQ were busy breaking the internet....
Title: Re: Google and the NSA: Who’s holding the ‘shit-bag’ now?
Post by: kmfkewm on September 11, 2013, 09:43 am
Quote
All they care about is making money for themselves

Nothing wrong with that! Self interest is good. What IS wrong is that they're exercising it with all out government protection. Read Assange's post carefully. He describes the fascist regime which regulates and taxes the competitors of the mega corps out of existence. Google is described as being part of the public-private revolving door maybe better than I've EVER heard it before. I mean Schmidt's fucking girlfriend being used as a go-between for Hillary?? The fucking scumbag head of Google's own thinktank being in central Asia "doing things the CIA cannot do"??! Holy fucking Christ!!!  :o :o :o

This is EXACTLY what's wrong with the world today and why we're about as far as we can possibly be from a free market. These people are scum who deserve to die. And their companies all need to be burned to the ground. I'm against a violent response to this shit but that's how I feel deep down when reading about it.  >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(

^^^ this - except ima all for a violent response as it has gone too far for anything else.

a little revolution every 25 yrs or so would be a good thing for this republic. " thomas jefferson " - might not be exact quote but whatever.

and as far as the corporate douche bags go - if i had a dick i would fuck bill gates ass till it was torn to shreds. and the rest of the parasites too!

was that too harsh?

Perhaps I can interest you folks in Totalibertarianism, the World Totalibertarian Liberation Army is currently taking recruits!

http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?topic=206731.135
Title: Re: Google and the NSA: Who’s holding the ‘shit-bag’ now?
Post by: bitfool on September 12, 2013, 02:37 am
Quote from: Bazille
Then why do they use their money to push Perfect Forward Secrecy since 2011?

Because that allows them to pretend that they are not what they really are (morally worthless idiots). Also, why do you believe they don't actually save the session keys?

Quote
Google wants all your data,

right

Quote
but they want it for themselves, not for the NSA

laughably wrong

Title: Re: Google and the NSA: Who’s holding the ‘shit-bag’ now?
Post by: bitfool on September 12, 2013, 02:43 am
Quote
I would like to point out something else that I think google has been fantastic in initiating (though this may be considered contraversial); Android. With their current monopoly over distribution and development, as well as how integrated it is to other google services, it might not seem like it right now, but I think this could turn out to be a real and significant boon for digital freedom in the iCrap-age.

Oh for fuck's sake. Android is a piece of totalitarian shit modeled after apple's garbage. It is just one more step in the fucking wrong direction.

Title: Re: Google and the NSA: Who’s holding the ‘shit-bag’ now?
Post by: Isobetadine on September 12, 2013, 03:13 am

The EU parliament is quite upset about the NSA btw.

 Correct.
Unfortunately,their outrage only comes after discovering that their offices were bugged.
Deals could be made if they are left out of the spying targets bag.
But still ,a good thing they are pissed.


 I feel the german public is having a good influence due to their stands and the fact that they express their outrage more then in neighbouring countries.


Love that tor is thinking about rolling out phones and such.
Really we need all the help we can get to counter those nsa fuckers.
That bunch of powertripping canonballs are taking their complete disregard  and contempt for the public too far instead of concentrating on serving the public and keep it safe >:(.

Thanks for the info as always Bazille.
Title: Re: Google and the NSA: Who’s holding the ‘shit-bag’ now?
Post by: StaticTension on September 12, 2013, 04:00 am
Quote from: Bazille
Then why do they use their money to push Perfect Forward Secrecy since 2011?

Because that allows them to pretend that they are not what they really are (morally worthless idiots). Also, why do you believe they don't actually save the session keys?

Quote
Google wants all your data,

right

Quote
but they want it for themselves, not for the NSA

laughably wrong

Google must be stopped at all costs. People are starting to realize now that data is not worthless. Can you imagine the amount of data and information that Google has stored on millions of people. Are you telling me that is right? What laws are in place to protect your privacy when god knows what information Google has?

In regards to Google not sharing info with the NSA I don't think they really have a choice. From the NSA's perspective why would they spend time searching when Google may have the info they need. You can bet your bottom dollar that Google is in bed with the NSA. Before you reply 'OMG noob no they're not, Google loves us!' please keep in mind how Google did not disclose how they shared information with the NSA before the whole Snowden incident? To add to that also keep in mind how is it that a billion dollar company like Google(if it is in fact against their morals) did not lawyer up and protest the sharing of their customers data with a Government agency when one man Ladar Levinson(Lavabit owner) instead of turning over the data shut down a company that he single handily built himself? 

Title: Re: Google and the NSA: Who’s holding the ‘shit-bag’ now?
Post by: Baraka on September 12, 2013, 07:51 am
Exactly. They're cocksuckers. End of story. Just re-read Assange's post. He spells it out plain as day. When the head of one of your units is out in fucking central Asia "doing things the CIA cannot do" as said by Stratfor....  :o

You can bet your bottom dollar that Google is in bed with the NSA. Before you reply 'OMG noob no they're not, Google loves us!' please keep in mind how Google did not disclose how they shared information with the NSA before the whole Snowden incident? To add to that also keep in mind how is it that a billion dollar company like Google(if it is in fact against their morals) did not lawyer up and protest the sharing of their customers data with a Government agency when one man Ladar Levinson(Lavabit owner) instead of turning over the data shut down a company that he single handily built himself?
Title: Re: Google and the NSA: Who’s holding the ‘shit-bag’ now?
Post by: kittenfluff on September 12, 2013, 09:01 am
Oh for fuck's sake. Android is a piece of totalitarian shit modeled after apple's garbage. It is just one more step in the fucking wrong direction.

I disagree. Apple is a 'walled garden', Android isn't. iOS is proprietary, Android is open. iOS is a single centrally controlled sequential distro, Android has parallel development paths (though, not enough right now). I think there are alot of things wrong with Android, but I think the differences above are important. Personally, I'd like to see and Android development that a) has a minimal GUI and b) is as secure as possible.
Title: Re: Google and the NSA: Who’s holding the ‘shit-bag’ now?
Post by: Bazille on September 12, 2013, 10:19 am
I feel the german public is having a good influence due to their stands and the fact that they express their outrage more then in neighbouring countries.

Well, for now the biggest sign of outrage was sending a secret service helicopter to spy on the spies in the US consulate in Frankfurt (actually it was probably more for pissing them off instead of spying on them). The NSA spies were quite angry about it and complained in public.
This move is very unusual for Germany, which is normally not a very confrontative country in such matters.

But there needs to be more done, considering Germany's history and bad experience with too poweful secret services. The German public also doesn't really understand the extent of this affair. They don't understand that our whole nation is insecure because companies and politicians are relying on unsafe technology. They don't understand that it's a threat to our nation's integrity and economy when our politicians and companies are pervasively spied upon. Some politicians of the ruling coalition openly lie to the public, saying there is no evidence and that this affair is over. Or they say "LOOK THERE'S A GOOGLE! They're much worse than the NSA! Google is the enemy!". However there are rumors that behind closed doors some of the liers are actually raging about the NSA. I guess that is a good sign. And even some conservative pensioners who don't even use the internet think that something smells fishy.
Title: Re: Google and the NSA: Who’s holding the ‘shit-bag’ now?
Post by: StaticTension on September 12, 2013, 11:00 am
Oh for fuck's sake. Android is a piece of totalitarian shit modeled after apple's garbage. It is just one more step in the fucking wrong direction.

I disagree. Apple is a 'walled garden', Android isn't. iOS is proprietary, Android is open. iOS is a single centrally controlled sequential distro, Android has parallel development paths (though, not enough right now). I think there are alot of things wrong with Android, but I think the differences above are important. Personally, I'd like to see and Android development that a) has a minimal GUI and b) is as secure as possible.

I tend to agree with that statement but looking at from a developers perspective developing apps for Android is a nightmare. You have so many different operating systems and versions. Also a vast range of screen sizes. Apple is a bit like the Nazis in regards to their devices and access to the code but developers have a much easier time making apps for the Iphone so as much as I'd like to see Apple go down in a ball of flames I highly doubt that will happen until Google starts to streamline the process of development in Android.

I think with Android Google had the thought of more is better bwhere in Apple went with simplicity,quality of apps and ease of use so in one point you are correct but at the same time not. The thing that drives people to get a certain smartphone is apps and features. Most developers chose to develop on Apple because they are only designing the app for one phone. Granted they have to take into account the previous Iphones as some features where not available. If you have the best developers making apps for Apple then that would make your smartphone a tempting choice for a consumer. As time goes by this doesn't matter as much anymore as developers are not willing to just ignore the Android platform as it carries almost 35-40% of the market share in the US.
Title: Re: Google and the NSA: Who’s holding the ‘shit-bag’ now?
Post by: bitfool on September 12, 2013, 09:18 pm
@kittenfluff


Agreed, android is not as bad as apple's OS but that's not saying much in my opinion. The list of reasons why gaagle sucks is endless, starting with the stuff in Assange's article.