Silk Road forums
Market => Rumor mill => Topic started by: GlenRunciter on July 12, 2013, 10:26 pm
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OK...so much for being a trusting fella. Call me Sucker.
So I FE'ed...despite all warnings to the contrary. Ultimately it's My Bad, and I'm stupid. OK, I get that. But listen. This guy had a 100 rating. All feedback looked great. Had a history here. Reputation seemed immaculate. But obviously I didn't do enough research or investigating. Supposedly if I had analyzed what this guy was promising and what this guy was selling it was so -patently- obvious to anybody looking that this dude was a scammer and I'm an idiot for not seeing it myself. That's the story. So how much responsibility should Silk Road take for offering a venue to this guy? Evidently there were some folks here who could see this coming a mile away, so how come Silk Road couldn't be on the vanguard and help out buyers by flagging this suspicious activity/behavior? How is it permissible for a vendor to alter his feedback, manipulate his rating so everything looks perfect ? And then make it incumbent on the buyer to be able to parse all this out, to look at the amazing feedback and be immediately skeptical about it? How am I supposed to know that the ratings and feedback have been manipulated?
I understand the need for due diligence with choosing vendors...to read every goddamn thing you can about them before giving up your hard earned money. But I thought a key virtue of Silk Road is to facilitate some sort of trust between buyer and seller...and the rating system and feedback structure are supposed to be a 'quick-glance' way to do that and have confidence in the system. If a buyer cannot look at a 100% rating with 5 out of 5 Feedback scores into eternity and be confident with his choice of vendor, what's the point of trusting anybody here?
Sorry, I realize I made the biggest mistake by FEing. I realize I am a fairly new Silk Road buyer, and I was a little too trusting and didn't delve into this vendor's history as much as I should. But the whole point of Silk Road is to create a space where a certain degree of trust can be expected and where transactions can be made without spending eons of time vetting a vendor or knowing every intricate detail of how the black market drug trade works. Okay, tirade over......the milk has been spilled, I will learn from it and move on. Thanks everybody. Just needed to vent a little..... ;)
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And not a single vendor name was given, ever.
Thanks.
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- Who are you talking about?
- What feedback did you leave?
- What do you mean the rating + feedback have been manipulated?
Why do you make so much drama if in the end you won't disclose shit? Lesson learned, you move on, you blame yourself a little and Silkroad a little, but the one who fucked you, the one deliberately exploiting your trust or gullibility, you ain't gonna disclose?
It's the only one responsible and he did that on purpose. And he will not stop. Others will get fucked. No, you won't get fucked anymore, you'll read the threads. You'll read the warnings, the stories of good peeps getting fucked. And you'll be careful and think twice before ordering at a store whose tenant you know to be dishonest, because you read it in the threads.
Well, in threads that, unlike yours have a point, have legitimacy and are useful. In which the OP needs to take a risk, explain, argue and defend his position. You could have written " I ate ice cream yesterday", it would have the same effect as this.
Now you have a quick look at this vendors page: how many people have FE'd since you bought there? This amount you could have warned.
Oh, I forgot:
SUCKER!
Peace out.
Jason.
P.S: I'm 95 certain, you didn't even report him.
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The guy is gone. Silk Road disbarred him. DaRuthless1.......sorry I didn't disclose his name, but I figured it was moot at this point....my argument was more theoretical...this could apply to any vendor. I understand the onus lies on me for not properly figuring out the shenanigans. Lesson learned. Just needed to vent. Sorry.
I'm just new here so having to look for all these little signs and flaws in the vendor's cunning little strategy is beyond the scope of a buyer, IMHO. That's the Silk Road's job....I don't know how he manipulated his stats....supposedly using fake product listings and so on and so forth. I don't know.........I understand, its all on me. Caveat Emptor, Buyer Beware. Whatever the hell it is. I'm sorry, I'll get over it. Lesson learned. Thanks for the constructive feedback. I appreciate it, really. 8)
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OK...so much for being a trusting fella. Call me Sucker.
So how much responsibility should Silk Road take for offering a venue to this guy? Evidently there were some folks here who could see this coming a mile away, so how come Silk Road couldn't be on the vanguard and help out buyers by flagging this suspicious activity/behavior? How am I supposed to know that the ratings and feedback have been manipulated?
I realize I am a fairly new Silk Road buyer, and I was a little too trusting and didn't delve into this vendor's history as much as I should. But the whole point of Silk Road is to create a space where a certain degree of trust can be expected and where transactions can be made without spending eons of time vetting a vendor or knowing every intricate detail of how the black market drug trade works.
to answer your question
"Evidently there were some folks here who could see this coming a mile away, so how come Silk Road couldn't be on the vanguard and help out buyers by flagging this suspicious activity/behavior?"
because idiots like you write entire threads about this issue yet do not disclouse any info to help prevent this. also, due diligence.
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OK, live and learn. I wasn't aware of the red flags until after the fact...and I acknowledge that's my bad for not thoroughly vetting the forums. But how much investigative work does a guy need to go thru to make sure his vendor is legit? That hampers the whole idea of a marketplace based on trust. If you can't have confidence in the ranking and the feedback...and a person must dedicate hours of research to figure out if a vendor is a scammer or not, it's not going to help facilitate a smooth, orderly marketplace is it??? It's as if I need a lawyer like Saul Goodman or Dr. Gonzo to guide me thru this place and that's just not practical. I guess I'm out of my element. :P
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This is 1000000% on you!
0% responsibility is on Silk Road.
Anytime a vendor has a sale that is offering drugs at half price but you must finalize then you should run.
As you said in your first few sentences....you were a moron....that is true. I am not trying to be a dick...I am just saying that you said it yourself...
Greed is what got everyone to fall for this...
As to your question..."Why didn't SR catch this first".......
Well SR is all of us! And the facts are that a lot of people are pretty sure it is a scam...but no one knows for sure until it actually happens. And as EVERYONE has said a MILLION TIMES!!!
DO NOT FINALIZE EARLY!!!!!!!!! PERIOD.
AND THIS WOULD NEVER EVER HAPPEN.
DaRuthless1 is a total piece of shit....but he was only able to pull this off because people were stupid. This vendor never sold anything but 10 roxies at a time for 7 months....then he started listing everything for 50% off what every other vendors sell...and a ton of you fell for it. I feel bad you all got scammed...BUT if any of you actually listened to what every person in here has preached...then you would have never lost a penny.
Sorry you got scammed...I know it must be a shitty feeling.
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And you asked a question about how much you should look into a vendor...
Well it is IMPORTANT to look at the actual listings and read the feedback for them at the bottom of the page...
This idiot made a bunch of new listings with no feedback on the items yet people still bought those items.
And again...this is IMPORTANT...you do not have to do much investigation if you just stay in escrow!!!
So as to your message right above this....all of that could have been avoided had you stayed in escrow.
I hear you take responsibility for yourself...BUT you also are trying to look for it being SR's fault....or someone else too. When in fact....if you just stayed in escrow....you can trust any vendor. PERIOD
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you cant blame silk road... while silk road is a service that we use, you still have to look at it fir what it is. just a website used to buy and sell DRUGS. YOU have to decide how confident you are in buying stuff. if you arent 100% confident, then dont buy then cry about silk road.
do you go to walmart, intending to buy lets say a lightbulb. you see in the package, that one of the bulbs are broken.
do you still buy it? just because walmart is a legit company, would you buy it knowing you saw a broken bulb? no, you dont, you do your own vetting, and then decide.
if he was manipulativing his feedback, thats a red flag. meaning, its a damn red flag. dont say afterwards, well his feedback, his feedback! when you saw it BEFORE.
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i think the give away would of been $600 a QP of Girl Scout cookies and his friend was sitting on a "TON" of it. That page stunk of scamming.
the only one to blame is the scammer and the person who wanted a great deal and gambled going against the protection silk road put in place.
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Wonder how many newbies start on SR without bothering signing up to the forum which is a must! Without the forum it's a breeding ground for scammers asking newbies to FE I'd say
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if he was manipulativing his feedback, thats a red flag. meaning, its a damn red flag. dont say afterwards, well his feedback, his feedback! when you saw it BEFORE.
Sorry if this wasn't made clear, but I was -not- aware he was manipulating his feedback...how could I ? I'm fairly new, and until now, wasn't aware vendors -could- fuck around with their feedback....all his feedback looked fine to me...it was 5 out of 5 into eternity....he was a 100% rated vendor for months now....must I always look with a skeptical eye at a vendor's feedback from now on?? Obviously I can't take it on face value anymore...but I thought that was the point of this whole endeavor we're doing here....if a vendor can fuck around and hoodwink buyers willy-nilly, what's the point? I'm sorry, I'm just frustrated.
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i think the give away would of been $600 a QP of Girl Scout cookies and his friend was sitting on a "TON" of it.
See, I don't even know what this jargon means. I'm not hip to all the drug lingo, that's my fault, and that's probably why I fell for this. Girl Scout Cookies? WTF? That's what I meant when I said it's like you need a lawyer to guide you through everything here. I was there to buy a gram of marching powder...so I'm not going to go thru all the other fuckery the guy sells....I don't smoke, so naturally I'm going to ignore the weed listings, etc. etc. This is a learning experience..thank you.
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Thank you everybody for your feedback. It is a learning experience. Thanks for not calling me a complete and total idiotic moron. . LOL. ::) Although I probably deserved it.
RXKing +1 I hear ya, man...
Have a good weekend everybody.
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Being scammed is a horrible experience brought on by the low life of society!
It's a sad existence but they do exist. Lesson learned for your cost and now you are that bit wiser from your experience for future SR purchases
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glen, 3 things.
one, what do you think silk road is? a safe place to buy illegal things? no, its a place to buy illegal things peroid. figure that out and you will understand why, yes, you have to look at vendors with a skeptical eye.
are you that naive in real life where you think if you go to a store and say im hungry and have no money, they will give you free food?
second. im sorry for being so hard on you. its just that people are so naive when it comes to silk road. like i said, this is not supposed to be a "safe place to buy illegal things with protection". it is a "place to buy illegal things online'
lastly, the QP of girl scout cookies for $600 things.
the saying "if it looks too good to be true, it is." means, the seller was trying to sell a "QP (quarter pound) of girl scout cookies (top shelf strain) for $600 when it should atleast $900.
i wish i could find all of the people that are that naive, so i could sell them this bridge i got in brooklyn on the cheap.
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If you can't have confidence in the ranking and the feedback...and a person must dedicate hours of research to figure out if a vendor is a scammer or not
Going to the forums wouldn't have helped, nearly a week went by and nothing was posted. I didnt post anything because, on top of being a reputable vendor, the guy only offers express, and I figured if it was a scam, people would be giving 1/5 ratings in a day or 2.. But looking back, he must have talked them into waiting before giving him a 1/5.
I was -not- aware he was manipulating his feedback...how could I ?
I never thought to look at the grammar that was being used on the feedback, but people on the forums did; and they pointed out that the writing style was the same (for example, many of the feedbacks used "an" instead of "and"). So that's one way to do it.
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Well SR is all of us! And the facts are that a lot of people are pretty sure it is a scam...but no one knows for sure until it actually happens.
Excellent point, when people posted on the forums, this guy was on responding. He was coming up with stories and really had people backing off of their accusations. I think he even cancelled the order of someone who posted in order to make it seem like there was no scam. So, SR's responsibility is extremely limited, because we clearly saw: this issue being discussed in the forums, people believe he was a scammer, and then change their minds after he replied to them.
The vast majority of the responsibility is on us. The most you could argue is: Whenever someone does a 'Finalize Early Sale', SR posts a warning and link to the forums at the top of their listings... Other than that, there's literally nothing they can do, because you don't know someone is a scammer until it's all done.
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Sorry to hear this happened to you and I hope you didn't get taken for too much money. Tough lesson to learn but Thsnks for sharing your experience.
I so wish they would do away with the FE option so this is no longer an issue and make it harder for people to scam others.
Best thing to protect yourself is to stay in escrow. I don't care how good the vendors feedback is or how well respected he/she is on the forum. Even well respected vendors have scammed new people who free early.
Just don't FE ever.
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Romero, zerik +1 guys thanks for your support and good tips...
Thank you everybody for chiming in. I'm feeling better about this and the self-loathing is lifting...LOL. I grew complacent too fast, I suppose...I just fell into a mindset thinking we're all here as one big happy family, -cumbaya-, vendors and buyers doing their thing making the world go 'round. I was naive to the fact that a guy could pull such a scam so quickly and with the vast amounts of money involved. I ordered a gram of marching powder from him...compared to a lot of folks, I should be counting my blessings, it could have been a lot worse.. This was probably an inexpensive lesson learned and I should be thankful for it.
It's funny, because I messaged the guy earlier asking WTF? and he responded. Here's his reply to me:
"Man these other vendors hate an got me in trob, bunch of bs... catch me on atlantis if you want a QP an if your gonna FE send me the funds direct an your payment info via privnote.com an if your going to send direct send it to my username"
What am I supposed to make of this? Again I'm not hip on all the drug jargon...so when I saw QP...I was a little perplexed. OK, so it's a term from the MJ trade... but what I purchased from him was a gram of coke, has nothing to do with the weed. So what on earth is he asking here? That he will refund me with weed? LOL, whatever. Maybe I'll track him down on Atlantis and ask what's up.......or just chalk this one up to a learning experience. Jesus. ::)
So here's a good lesson, though. Learning experience. This was my first coke purchase on SR. Why did I order from this particular vendor? Well, he had the 100 rating, OK check.. I review the feedback...all 5's...OK, check. Nice price for a gram....OK, check. All the boxes are being checked here. OOPS, Red Flag: He asks for FE. Reading the feedback it says, over and over, "FE for a great seller, will update" "FE, great communicator, love his product, will update." etc. etc. etc. all 5 outta 5. So dumbass me falls for all of this hook, line, and sinker. I FE, b/c everybody else is FEing...and they seem like repeat, happy customers, and that's just what this dude's MO is.......he's been around here awhile, has a 100 rating, repeat customers are FEing with 5 outta 5's. OK, check. Looks like a safe bet. WRONGO. IF I had looked at his other offerings....the Roxy's....the weed....maybe if I was smart enough I would have figured out the prices and quantities did not compute. But I'm not a weed buyer, I'm not a Roxy buyer. So I pay no attention to those listings. Wouldn't know a good deal from a hole in the ground. But that's where I fucked up. I guess if I'm going to buy coke ....buy coke from a coke dealer. Vet the hell out of the vendor. Get on the forums and do some deep digging and ask around. I didn't do that. So I got fucked. Lesson Learned. I'm cool with it, time to move on. Thanks folks. 8)
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wonder if they freeze the money in his Sr account?
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The thing is that I don't get is what can be the reason for people to FE in normal circumstances.
Even with a perfect feedback vendor it doesn't make any sense because the escrow system is there to shield BOTH the vendor and the buyer. There could be a good faith error, for example. Without escrow the thing can not be so easy to resolve. There can be problems in the product somewhere: outside of escrow in the same way things can be more difficult to resolve properly (BOTH parts have LESS incentive to do so cleanly).
If there's not a very particular good reason (and no, more product is not a good reason) to FE then there's no point on doing it, no matter the quality of the vendor, and even no matter the quality of a buyer (from the pow of the vendor).
It's not that you get some facilitation somewhere in the process by FE, isn't it? So what is the point?
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The thing is that I don't get is what can be the reason for people to FE in normal circumstances.
Even with a perfect feedback vendor it doesn't make any sense because the escrow system is there to shield BOTH the vendor and the buyer. There could be a good faith error, for example. Without escrow the thing can not be so easy to resolve. There can be problems in the product somewhere: outside of escrow in the same way things can be more difficult to resolve properly (BOTH parts have LESS incentive to do so cleanly).
If there's not a very particular good reason (and no, more product is not a good reason) to FE then there's no point on doing it, no matter the quality of the vendor, and even no matter the quality of a buyer (from the pow of the vendor).
It's not that you get some facilitation somewhere in the process by FE, isn't it? So what is the point?
People get misled since they read pages of people FEing in the feedback section. If we could cut down people FEing by a decent percentage it wouldn't self perpetuate.
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So here's a good lesson, though. Learning experience. This was my first coke purchase on SR. Why did I order from this particular vendor? Well, he had the 100 rating, OK check.. I review the feedback...all 5's...OK, check. Nice price for a gram....OK, check. All the boxes are being checked here. OOPS, Red Flag: He asks for FE. Reading the feedback it says, over and over, "FE for a great seller, will update" "FE, great communicator, love his product, will update." etc. etc. etc. all 5 outta 5. So dumbass me falls for all of this hook, line, and sinker. I FE, b/c everybody else is FEing...and they seem like repeat, happy customers, and that's just what this dude's MO is.......he's been around here awhile, has a 100 rating, repeat customers are FEing with 5 outta 5's. OK, check. Looks like a safe bet. WRONGO. IF I had looked at his other offerings....the Roxy's....the weed....maybe if I was smart enough I would have figured out the prices and quantities did not compute. But I'm not a weed buyer, I'm not a Roxy buyer. So I pay no attention to those listings. Wouldn't know a good deal from a hole in the ground. But that's where I fucked up. I guess if I'm going to buy coke ....buy coke from a coke dealer. Vet the hell out of the vendor. Get on the forums and do some deep digging and ask around. I didn't do that. So I got fucked. Lesson Learned. I'm cool with it, time to move on. Thanks folks. 8)
I think you're being way too hard on yourself... The things that you're saying you should've known (about prices) didn't do anything for me. I didn't get scammed, but the things that told me not to purchase from the guy were completely different. The most important thing in my case was a knowledge of SR history. I haven't been around SR for THAT long, but I was lucky enough to be browsing the forums and see that (sometimes) reputable vendors will turn into scammers if they decide to leave the road. And the scam will involve coming up with an excuse to get everyone to Finalize Early. Then the guy added listings for products that he never previously sold (like coke, marijuana, etc), at which point I decided to never do business with him unless it was in escrow. Before that point I was unsure if he was a scammer, but in my opinion, the risk was too great for whatever savings he was offering.
I personally do not think you you need to go on the forums and do some deep digging for your next deal. And I also don't think you should consider it a lesson learned, but more like an opportunity to gain knowledge so that it'll never happen again. You were absolutely lucky if he only took you for a gram. The only time you need to go on the forums is if you're buying from someone that you've never done business with who hasn't been around long. Even then, a quick search of the username should be sufficient. I'm not going to say don't ever FE, I FE all the time and I've never been scammed. But you should understand the risks and try to took at different variables like: whether or not the vendor has a 100 rating and whether or not he's been around long enough to care about his feedback. A lot of people don't know that you can finalize without leaving a rating / review. Every time I FE, I'm fully aware that I can get scammed.
I know that everything I just said are things you shouldn't do; but I'm assuming you already know what you 'should' do. However, I agree that you should be able to login and feel like you're part of a secret happy family. I just do not think anything negative should be going through your mind when you're using SR. Obviously don't be dumb, use logic, be cautious, understand that anyone can have access to this place; but don't feel anxiety (if that makes sense). Anyway, it would be interesting to see if he moved to Atlantis; though I'm guessing the reason he did what he did is because he lost his connect.
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The thing is that I don't get is what can be the reason for people to FE in normal circumstances.
Even with a perfect feedback vendor it doesn't make any sense because the escrow system is there to shield BOTH the vendor and the buyer. There could be a good faith error, for example. Without escrow the thing can not be so easy to resolve. There can be problems in the product somewhere: outside of escrow in the same way things can be more difficult to resolve properly (BOTH parts have LESS incentive to do so cleanly).
If there's not a very particular good reason (and no, more product is not a good reason) to FE then there's no point on doing it, no matter the quality of the vendor, and even no matter the quality of a buyer (from the pow of the vendor).
It's not that you get some facilitation somewhere in the process by FE, isn't it? So what is the point?
Personally, the reason I FE (whenever I decide to) is to ensure the best possible relationship with the vendor. And I disagree that more product is a bad reason to FE, to someone, it may be worth the risk. To me, it isn't. I'm fully aware that no matter how good the vendor is, I can be scammed whenever I FE, so I only do it when I know it won't be a big deal to get scammed (I have faith in my ability to look at the variables and my ability to determine the risk, but I fully I understand that at any time I can be wrong).
In short, it's a personal preference. You don't feel comfortable with it, so there's no reason to do it, and I certainly wouldn't try to convince you of anything. It's about your personality and what you feel comfortable with. Personally, it's worth it to me to build a relationship with the vendor. I'll probably feel differently when I've been scammed, but whatever. I totally understand that from you're perspective this is a completely dumb attitude to have, but from my perspective, the minimal risk is worth it to build a relationship.
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Wow, nobody gang up a new guy all at once, Everyone's new and everyone has made some rookie mistakes, and then sometimes after a year you'll make some other rookie mistakes, I had a very close relationship with a vendor and he would just send me stuff and i'd pay him later that week, then i started finalizing for him right when he would put my order in transit, just to try and repay the favor. Well a month ago he ran off with $225, not a lot of money at all but overnight he went from being one of the best people i ever dealt with to scammer or at this point, he's selectively scamming. I knew not to go out of escrow and would pile on people just like everyone else when they FE'd and got burnt, then i did it and paid the same price. You'll be fine bro just remember it and keep it in your pocket to never EVER finalize until you've got what you paid for in your hands.
Best of luck in the future, Organon
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shame mate try not to sweat it a thiefs a thief mate,sell their arsesoul to the devil for paper cash
no pain experience be very careful on here .
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OK..just got back home, and I see all this..I got HAD...BAD..I'm NOT exactly new here, but obviously I was WAY too trusting...FUCK!!!!
I was led to believe he was another vendor who is held in high regard...FUCK
my fault for being greedy and dealing with "new guy"? WTF..DIDN'T he have MONTHS of good thing written about him?
I..have enough honest people I trust here..I got greedy..now I LOST
SECOND most expensive lesson I've learned this month...one here, and one IRL..both cost me more than I care to admit..I am a fool...NEVER TAKE IT FRO ME>>>NEVER FE...I GUARANTEE I LOST MORE THAN ANY SINGLE BUYER IN ONE SHOT WITH DR1!!!
BROKE THE CARDINAL RULE!!!
FUUUUUUUCKKKKKK
~PB2k
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I FE'd once and only once.
BCPLTD - but I was lucky as I got some bomb acetone wash that i forgot bout since it was removed from my Orders
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Well I found the fuck over at Atlantis...would it be a legitimate move to harass his ass over there until he at least gives me back my BTC ?? I mean, compared to some folks, I'm only out 80 bucks or so for what I thought was going to be a gram of coke. (Little did I know that DaRuthless wasn't ever known as a coke dealer...I guess his main trade was weed and Roxys.) That was something that I failed to glean on my own, and why his scam was a lot more apparent to people around here who pay proper attention to what a vendor usually slings. At any rate, I would think some of us who got scammed could go make his life a living hell over at Atlantis so he can't get anything done over there. Just an idea....and I don't know if it's proper protocol or even worth the hassle. But I'm not a guy who has a lot of money to roll around in...I would think DaRuthless would realize reimbursing my .8 BTC would be a helluva lot easier than putting up with whatever clandestine antics I could cause his vending venture over at Atlantis......whaddya all think??? Should I just let it go.....and chalk it up as a lesson learned.......or proceed to be an annoying little bastard to DaRuthless over at Atlantis and post shit in the forums or just needle his ass until he pays me back????? We can't let him get off this easy, can we? :D ::)