Silk Road forums
Discussion => Legal => Topic started by: heatcheck on August 12, 2013, 10:47 pm
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[CLEARNET] http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/holder-seeks-to-avert-mandatory-minimum-sentences-for-some-low-level-drug-offenders/2013/08/11/343850c2-012c-11e3-96a8-d3b921c0924a_story.html [clearnet]
Eric Holder is pushing against mandatory minimum sentences for non-violent drug offenders. Also pushing to get some of the non-violent offenders in jail for long sentences out of jail.
Not only is this a great step in the right direction for prison reform in America it looks like it could be a great turning point for drug law. Compound this with legalization in two states (and probably more coming) and things are looking up for us.
Discuss.
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Not that anything I saw was new to me, the piece on CNN by Sanjay Gupta has to count for something as well. Not very often do we see a 100% supportive piece on marijuana that is "mainstream" driven. Couple that with the positive press that the CBD-based strains have gotten lately, I think this one is almost in the bag. Marijuana is the new same-sex marriage...war on drugs will follow.
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I can see MJ easily spreading, but definetly nothing more than that.
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I can see MJ easily spreading, but definetly nothing more than that.
Maybe not legalization but overall decriminalization would be a win in my book. If possessing a gram of MDMA, etc wasn't a felony, for example and only a $100 petty misdemeanor, that'd be a start.
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Eric Holder is just trying to distract from the NSA controversy.
His is a piece of shit and would never do anything beneficial for this country.
It is all lip service.
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It is not the reform that is needed but it is small positive step which is better than nothing. I believe the main interest is to reduce the federal prison population or at least stop it from rising unsustainably, however it will put more strain on the states. If and how each state decides to act now is more important.
The next really positive step would be making all felony charges for non-violent drug offenders charged with simple possession a simple misdemeanor. This at least begins to resemble some kind of rationality rather than draconian "tough-on-crime" ideologies.
In the end I think there is probably a lot of pressure from minority communities on the first black president to actually take SOME action to respond to the incredibly disproportionate number of blacks in federal prison, especially considering ~47% of federal inmates are in there for drug offenses. The war on drugs has taken a huge toll on families and communities everywhere but especially for minorities. Obama is still a politician this is probably a good move for his party.
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I can see MJ easily spreading, but definetly nothing more than that.
Maybe not legalization but overall decriminalization would be a win in my book. If possessing a gram of MDMA, etc wasn't a felony, for example and only a $100 petty misdemeanor, that'd be a start.
I can see this happening long term, but not in my lifetime. Drugs gain wider acceptence with every younger generation. It is only a matter of time but a very long time, even until just decrim.
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Great article Heatcheck, +1.
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It's about time something was done about the state of the "justice" system in this country. 25% of the world's incarcerated people are here in the US. The American Gulag is unsustainable and must be reformed.
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Lots of talk from our reps now let's see something actually done about it!
Ryno
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Until we have a generational shift in policy makers, nothing serious will ever change.
The reason shit has been so bad, and always going down hill, is the same people are making these laws now that made them 30/40 years ago. It's the same generation, same group of college buddies, same rotary club daddy-bought-me-harvard bureaucrats who wouldn't know the way to the ghetto with a GPS unit and an address.
Until we have people that are capable (and young enough) to use the internet, have a free thought remaining in their head, and haven't been given a bill of goods by the same groups that argue over whether or not its a good idea to spend money on education...
I have very little trust of a system driven by people who have done it the same way for the past 200 years. Politics and law making in the US is as much about the truth and the good of the people as McDonalds is about weight loss and healthy children.
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+1 Preach on my brotha!
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Until we have a generational shift in policy makers, nothing serious will ever change.
The reason shit has been so bad, and always going down hill, is the same people are making these laws now that made them 30/40 years ago. It's the same generation, same group of college buddies, same rotary club daddy-bought-me-harvard bureaucrats who wouldn't know the way to the ghetto with a GPS unit and an address.
Until we have people that are capable (and young enough) to use the internet, have a free thought remaining in their head, and haven't been given a bill of goods by the same groups that argue over whether or not its a good idea to spend money on education...
I have very little trust of a system driven by people who have done it the same way for the past 200 years. Politics and law making in the US is as much about the truth and the good of the people as McDonalds is about weight loss and healthy children.
Brilliantly put sir.
Ryno
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Until we have a generational shift in policy makers, nothing serious will ever change.
The reason shit has been so bad, and always going down hill, is the same people are making these laws now that made them 30/40 years ago. It's the same generation, same group of college buddies, same rotary club daddy-bought-me-harvard bureaucrats who wouldn't know the way to the ghetto with a GPS unit and an address.
Until we have people that are capable (and young enough) to use the internet, have a free thought remaining in their head, and haven't been given a bill of goods by the same groups that argue over whether or not its a good idea to spend money on education...
I have very little trust of a system driven by people who have done it the same way for the past 200 years. Politics and law making in the US is as much about the truth and the good of the people as McDonalds is about weight loss and healthy children.
Couldn't have said it better myself. Drug laws have never really been about drugs themselves. Most often, it seems they are based entirely on racial discrimination or monetary gain. Besides that, when did it become the government's responsibility to keep certain things away from adults? Do they really think Americans are completely void of self control and informing themselves? From my research, I found what I think are a few of the real reasons for certain laws banning particular drugs.
Alcohol (during Prohibition) - a racist attack on the Irish immigrants under the guise of moral goodness
Marijuana - the logging industry lobbied for criminalizing marijuana because of the competition from hemp; a racist attack on Mexican immigrants and Native Americans (peyote too); alcohol sellers lobbied against weed to prevent another form of legal intoxication from entering the market
Opiods - pharma industry looking to corner the pain relief market
MDMA & Psychadelics - fear, ignorance, and a desire to eliminate sub-cultural groups like "hippies, ravers, candy kids," etc.
But now, more and more people are using the information provided to experiment with these substances. According to studies I've read the most well balanced young adults (socially and academically) are those who are open to and/or have tried at least two of the drugs mentioned above. Could just be a correlation, but I think better understanding of us, as a drug taking species, is something worth our time and money.
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Helpful news from Norway
Results showing Psychs are not dangerous, if not good for you.
Clearnet: http://www.the-scientist.com/?articles.view/articleNo/37113/title/Just-a-Trip/
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It's awesome to see the HUGE steps that have been taken in the last 1-2 years. Weed is fucking legal in 2 states, I still can't even believe that! Hopefully we start seeing more of this change into other states and even other countries.
We are in a huge movement right now, its really up to us to determine what is really going to happen with the future of this legalization. Washington and Colorado are in a "testing phase," how I would put it, to see what really is going to happen with regulated marijuana. instead of just speculations of what people think would happen.
I think we're lucky to even be given this chance to test out marijuana legalization for real instead of just shit talk about what might happen. The main thing is, WE CAN'T FUCK THIS UP. We've been given this amazing opportunity to prove that weed can be successfully regulated the same as alcohol. We also need to keep giving people the RIGHT facts about marijuana, the government brainwashed our older generation into believing that marijuana was an addictive, harmful substance that ruins lives and makes you go crazy (watch the movie: Reefer Madness lol). I swear I will never be able to convince my parents that marijuana isn't bad, no matter how many facts I drill in their heads, there's no way they'll change sides. The argument usually ends on the lines of "well it's still illegal," which I can't lie, is a valid statement. Maybe, just maybe, if it started getting legalized in more places, people like my parents would change their opinion and start seeing though what was put in front of them for all those years. But you're always going to have those people who think weed ruins lives because they've seen it first hand, people kill over it, tore my family apart, when really it's not because of weed, its because those people already had underlying issues but since they smoked weed Officer Jim over there is going to think drugs are the main issue when really it's other problems the person has. It's shitty to see people like that who are quick to judge people without looking past the cover... But overall I think there has been a bit more leniency towards marijuana and its users especially in the past decade, but we still have a long way to go.
Sorry for the huge rant, I could go on all day talking about marijuana and the politics surrounding it :P
TLDR: We've been given an opportunity, with the legalization in WA and CO, to prove that weed can be regulated like alcohol and bust all the false myths that have kept the majority against the plant. If we don't fuck this up and make it positive, then we will see other states and even other countries following along and hopefully we do turn the corner on these drug laws.
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Its exciting to see this unfolding, and its about bloody time, as has been pointed out though, the political 'class' and the media are going to be jumping on ANY little misdemeanor to try and get this reversed, thats what they do. As we go through the generations drugs are becoming more acceptable, my parents have tried cannabis in the 70's although they would still be opposed to legalisation of other hard (lol) drugs such as MDMA. I have been ebbing away at their anti stance for years though, and it is sinking in! e.g. my dad even said the other day with regards to someone getting the death sentence for being a drug mule 'what a tragic waste of life, over a bit of powder', inside that made me smile as I know he's turned a corner in his opinion.
This is what its all about though, changing opinions of the masses, the current political generation is slightly different, even Barrack Obama and David Cameron have admitted publicly to trying certain substances, yet they are still happy to lock people up.
Lets face it, at least with weed legalized they could regulate the strength, some of the mental strains were what put me off smoking and definitely didn't do my head any good, thankfully I was responsible enough to see this and stop, now I'm only a very occassional smoker.
Anyhow, keep up the good work, slowly changing peoples opinions and spreading good accurate information, don't go out there shouting to loudly and ridiculing people for their opinions, that won't help matters at all, everyone you convince into re-thinking their position is a step in the right direction!
Peace
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I can see MJ easily spreading, but definetly nothing more than that.
Your signature has a very subliminal effect to this post of yours :X
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although they would still be opposed to legalisation of other hard (lol) drugs such as MDMA.
Electric Zoo having to cancel a day due to ODs doesn't help.... sad face :(
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although they would still be opposed to legalisation of other hard (lol) drugs such as MDMA.
Electric Zoo having to cancel a day due to ODs doesn't help.... sad face :(
I am interested in the toxicology results. I highly doubt it was MDMA that the two people took who died...
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although they would still be opposed to legalisation of other hard (lol) drugs such as MDMA.
Electric Zoo having to cancel a day due to ODs doesn't help.... sad face :(
I am interested in the toxicology results. I highly doubt it was MDMA that the two people took who died...
I don't know if anyone has confirmed that the two kids OD'd. They most likely died from dehydration. Then it could have been because of MDMA.
In one article I read it said that the guy had some Meth on him or in his blood too.
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Eric Holder is just trying to distract from the NSA controversy.
His is a piece of shit and would never do anything beneficial for this country.
It is all lip service.
bang on!
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All drugs should be legal anyway, and let whoever is stupid enough to kill themselves or OD do it. The US is suppose to be a free country but you can't even put stuff into your own body without going to jail. Increase sentencing on unprovoked violence, pedophiles, rapists, and murderers and decrease sentencing for drug offences.
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I can see MJ easily spreading, but definetly nothing more than that.
^^^This^^^ Unfortunate as it is when you mention anything like a white powder your average joe thinks of meth zombies or crack addicts. I can see cannabis becoming legal but thats as far as it would go IMO. I personally am surprised the government has not thought of things like over the counter weed sales with a high taxation against them (Like cigarettes and alcohol) Not like those greedy bastards to miss out on some more tax $$ or ££.
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The turning point is right now.
We will win in the long run i am certain.
keep up the good fight.
'For the loser now will be later to win, for the times they are a-changin'
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They also said they wouldn't go after CA marijuana dispensarys and then the next week they started hitting them harder then any administration ever had and never let up. The Obama admin are a bunch of fucking liars. They say one thing and then do the exact other. I honestly would rather hear them say that they are going to spearhead a massive global clamp down on drugs because then I'd know they would actually be getting ready to end the war on drugs.
Also I'm starting to not be able to stand the marijuana defenders. They are turning into the biggest fucking hypocrites. All too often I hear their argument be "marijuana is not dangerous, let us put what we want in our own bodies, FREEDOM!!!!" and then in the next breath "but other drugs really are dangerous and should be illegal". Marijuana proponents are turning into selfish pricks who only care about their drug of choice. It would be one thing if it was just about picking your battles, but that is not the sense that I get from them. Either fight for the ownership of one's body or don't, but don't knitpick.
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...Also I'm starting to not be able to stand the marijuana defenders. They are turning into the biggest fucking hypocrites. All too often I hear their argument be "marijuana is not dangerous, let us put what we want in our own bodies, FREEDOM!!!!" and then in the next breath "but other drugs really are dangerous and should be illegal". Marijuana proponents are turning into selfish pricks who only care about their drug of choice. It would be one thing if it was just about picking your battles, but that is not the sense that I get from them. Either fight for the ownership of one's body or don't, but don't knitpick.
Yeah, I guess I have to own a little of this...hurts but is true. In my heart-of-hearts I believe that adults must be free to use all substances, period. But if someone asked me in an interview about cannabis legalization, I'd probably waffle and just say that " I think that cannabis must be legalized now, period, and we need to look at how societey deals with all drugs with a fresh perspective.", or some other bullshit.
But in my defense, I also think that getting the MJ nose under the proverbial tent, will be a very positive step towards removal of all substance prohibition. So for me it's straight up politics at this point.
We need to win some battles, in order to win the war.
R.
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Also was it in this thread where I heard that New Zealand was going to allow new recreational pharmaceuticals as long as they can pass the same safety standards as other pharmaceuticals?
R.
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I will believe the full on legalization when I see it. I know that there is bill named hr499 in the house that will repeal the classification of marijuana and regulate it like alcohol. If that passes then things will change.
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Lets hope for the best as always!
Eu will follow shortly. At least Germany will follow the US like sheep. We already have medical cannabis for a few people since a couple of year already. Its all a matter of time. I might not ever in my lifetime experience time travel, or space travel or aliens landing but goddamnit I will be here for legalization.
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FYI - The tide appears to be turning in other areas too, see below...
B.C. doctors given Health Canada approval to prescribe heroin
Health Canada on Friday authorized doctors to prescribe heroin to around 15 patients, The Globe and Mail has learned
After years of petitioning by health officials in British Columbia, Health Canada has authorized some B.C. doctors to prescribe heroin for select patients who have failed to respond to conventional opioid addiction treatments. But within moments of the authorization, Federal Health Minister Rona Ambrose blasted the department's decision, saying it flies in the face of the Conservative government's anti-drug policy, and vowed to ensure it never happens again.
Health Canada on Friday authorized doctors to prescribe heroin to around 15 patients, The Globe and Mail has learned. The doctors had applied to Health Canada under its Special Access Programme (SAP), which grants doctors access to non-marketed or otherwise unapproved drugs for patients with "serious or life-threatening conditions when conventional therapies have failed, are unsuitable or unavailable," according to a description on Health Canada's website.
Ms. Ambrose said in a statement the decision simply "allows [the addicts] to continue to have access to heroin for their addiction even though other safe treatments for heroin addiction, such as methadone, are available."
The doctors had recently renewed their calls for allowing prescription heroin in light of the ongoing SALOME trial, a three-year project launched by researchers from Providence Health Care and the University of British Columbia to determine whether hydromorphone – a powerful but legal opiate – is as effective as diacetylmorphine (prescription heroin) in helping severely addicted heroin users.
A previous study (NAOMI) by the same researchers, published in the New England Journal of Medicine, had concluded prescription heroin is a safe and effective treatment for the small subsection of addicts who did not benefit from conventional treatments such as methadone. Participants who took prescription heroin were more likely to stay in treatment, reduce illegal drug use and avoid illegal activities, researchers found.
In both studies, doctors were concerned by the lack of an exit strategy once participants had completed their 13-month trials. While some patients could not differentiate between hydromorphone and prescription heroin – suggesting hydromorphone could be an effective, legal substitute for heroin – doctors are reluctant to prescribe the former as NAOMI is not yet complete. That means there is no conclusive evidence to show hydromorphone – a pain medication – is an effective treatment for heroin addiction.
Patricia Daly, chief medical health officer and vice-president of public health at Vancouver Coastal Health, was one of several doctors who wrote to Health Canada.
"I've written to Health Canada and asked that [the patients] be allowed to get injectable diacetylmorphine – that's injectable heroin – because we've demonstrated in a research study, published in the New England Journal, that's an effective treatment," she told The Globe earlier this month.
Ms. Ambrose said Health Canada's authorization "is in direct opposition to the government's anti-drug policy and violates the spirit and intent of the SAP.
"I am taking immediate action to protect the integrity of the SAP and ensure this does not happen again," she said in the statement. "The SAP was designed to treat unusual cases and medical emergencies; it was not intended as a way to give illicit drugs to drug addicts."
Ms. Ambrose's office said she would not be doing interviews on Friday, choosing instead to "let the statement stand."
It is unclear whether the minister could reverse Health Canada's decision. Her office said she will be looking at all options.
Scott Bernstein, a lawyer for the Pivot Legal Society, which is representing 22 SALOME patients – four of whom were approved for prescription heroin on Friday – as well as the B.C. Association of People on Methadone, said Health Canada's decision will increase stability in those patients' lives by moving the drug into a medical environment.
"Minister Ambrose's statement reflects that the federal government is more than willing to wade into medical decisions when it suits their political needs, regardless of the cost to marginalized individuals and public health," he said. "Evidence should drive policy decisions, not ideology and stigma against drug users."
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honestly I feel if barrack oganja (college nickname) needs to be able to smoke the herb to get through a lot of the stuff that needs to be done. free the weed. find medicinal uses for other drugs and the rest will follow.
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Our last 3 presidents have done drugs. Had they been caught they'd be in prison instead. I wonder how many other US presidents there are rotting away in prisons just because they got caught.
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ok, so where exactly in Canada do you fill a script for heroin?
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ok, so where exactly in Canada do you fill a script for heroin?
Take a left at Afghanistan.