Silk Road forums

Discussion => Newbie discussion => Topic started by: prettyboyfloyd on August 25, 2013, 09:38 am

Title: Building newbie rep through FE
Post by: prettyboyfloyd on August 25, 2013, 09:38 am
Last night I upset a vendor handling my first purchase by suggesting FE'ing maybe shouldn't be necessary. because SR is already holding the funds. He's got an excellent rep himself, and says he wouldn't want to mess that up with a scam on this small deal. Seems reasonable. He says he's had ripoffs with people he's not served before, which doesn't seem unlikely.

His terms specify FE on less than 5 previous deals for reassurance. On my side, I've gone for a signed-for package (sure, that's maybe an additional risk to me) so there's a definite record he's honored things at his end. I've got two other deals in the pipeline - one requires 3 previous deals or FE; the other doesn't seem worried about newbies.

People are really militant around here on FE and I can see where they're coming from - escrow makes sense and it keeps things orderly. But where there's no/low/bad stats for the buyer, what protection do vendors have? Sure a signed-for package ups the risk by focusing attention on it, but isn't it a legit way to balance risks in FE where a newbie's building their stats? Maybe anyone requesting FE should offer a signed-for postal option?

Is that a reasonable argument for why FE's OK for newbies?
What;s the 'standard' way for newbies to build a decent trusted profile?
Title: Re: Building newbie rep through FE
Post by: dirtybiscuitzz718 on August 25, 2013, 10:14 am
Best , most cost efficient method of establishing stats that a vendor will have no issues working with, would be to make 5 buys for digital DL's. Porn, ebooks, anything. Hope that helps.
Title: Re: Building newbie rep through FE
Post by: incubusdriver on August 25, 2013, 10:21 am
During the time I've spent ghosting this forum's history, I've seen a ridiculous number of posts from people who've been surprised that a seller with awesome stats has gone AWOL after they fixed early. Sure, it's less likely - but you're opening yourself to risk by doing it. Of course, it's up to you. If you want to keep things friendly with this vendor and are happy to accept that you might lose that money, then go for it.
Title: Re: Building newbie rep through FE
Post by: prettyboyfloyd on August 25, 2013, 10:39 am
Best , most cost efficient method of establishing stats that a vendor will have no issues working with, would be to make 5 buys for digital DL's. Porn, ebooks, anything. Hope that helps.
Yep that definitely helps. Thanks. Although the simplicity of that solution sort of frighteningly undermines the safeguard stats are supposed to address.

And yeah Incubus, I can of course see where FE just makes risk. And that being a newbie is always just going to give someone the jitters. While the law's against what SR does, I guess it's all about trust and people being decent. All the same there do seem to be (from what people write here anyhow) plenty of the the kind of decent types you find amongst people who choose a lifestyle where they're prepared to take personal responsibility in situations many people find too unsafe, or need expertise. Maybe what drugs do to people is generally less terrible than the effect of money  ;D

Anyway this here vendor seems like the kind of person I would get on with irl from the messages back and forth. Fingers crossed. 
Title: Re: Building newbie rep through FE
Post by: incubusdriver on August 25, 2013, 01:31 pm
Yeah good luck dude, I hope it works out :-)

If it doesn't, you can always PM me and I'll help you write an angry letter ;)
Title: Re: Building newbie rep through FE
Post by: PowerToCharm on August 25, 2013, 02:12 pm
Here’s what I, as a vendor, can do to eliminate the need to ever ask for FE:

1) Ship a product of a quality and quantity that my buyer will be happy with.
2) Employ stealth packaging that will ensure the safe delivery of that product.
3) Include tracking so that, if necessary, the delivery of the order can be verified.
4) State clearly on my vendor page that no refund will be given if tracking shows the item was delivered or if delivery was not possible due to a bad shipping address being provided by the buyer.

Now where’s the risk to me, as a vendor, whether the buyer has 100 previous purchases or zero? The product gets where it’s going and the buyer is happy and finalizes. If the buyer doesn’t finalize, the order will auto-finalize. If the buyer tries to be a dick scammer and take it to resolution, he’ll lose because I’ve done everything right on my end. Sorry, but the whole idea that new buyers should show sympathy for the risks assumed by vendors and do the right thing by FE'ing just doesn't make sense to me.

Just say no to finalizing early!
Title: Re: Building newbie rep through FE
Post by: Phalstaf on August 25, 2013, 03:26 pm
It all comes down to trust.  SR strongly suggests to not FE.  Most of the major scams on the site have involved sellers that have requested FE.  That being said, I have made multiple purchases from vendors that required FE with no problems. I recommend that you start slow, read the forum, watch vendor's feedback  I did that  for several weeks before I made my first purchase.  I took some risks and FE'd for some vendors and most are gone by now and luckily I was never ripped off, heck I even FE'd for Tony76 and received my product. But a vendor that requires all purchasers to FE is building an exit plan. I would Never FE for a purchase of over $100.
Title: Re: Building newbie rep through FE
Post by: Tessellated on August 25, 2013, 03:46 pm
It depends on what you are buying. Some drugs are near impossible to get with no stats and not FE'n. But other drugs have solid vendors who are happy to work in escrow.

If you want weed or LSD or DMT then you probably can find a vendor who will work in escrow. Herion, meth, coke... less likely.

I think it has to do with the types of customers they get.
Title: Re: Building newbie rep through FE
Post by: prettyboyfloyd on August 25, 2013, 03:59 pm
I think it has to do with the types of customers they get.
;D
Title: Re: Building newbie rep through FE
Post by: JoyceBradburyKing on August 25, 2013, 04:12 pm
A vendor has it stated that they require FE if stats are below a certain threshold. I was willing to FE to build trust on a small amount, so made the order and sent a message saying I would FE if needed.
Obviously I did all the research I could on the vendor before this.

However the package is now marked in transit and the sent message is marked as unread.

So should I just wait and keep the coins in escrow until either they message me or the package arrives?
Title: Re: Building newbie rep through FE
Post by: sloopyloops on August 25, 2013, 04:34 pm
You do not have to FE--ever!!!

If you post what your looking for I will try and suggest vendors that will deal with you as a newbie and will never ask for FE. All the best vendors want is for you to fully read their listings and their home page. Read the instructions- that's all. Also, as a newbie, introduce yourself. Send a message, say hi, I'm a newbie, I'm gonna make a purchase from you, I read your listing. It's friendly, and good protocol. I promise If you take the time you will find what you are looking for without FE.

Hell, I'm a newbie- I wish I had a bitcoin for the number of newbies I've seen ripped off in the short time I've been here. Vendors that have been here a long or short time disappear with your bitcoin like a fart in the wind. It sucks, it happens. We both take chances, buyers and sellers, on SR. That is what escrow is for. If used properly the worst that happens to either side is your coin is tied up during resolution. Sorry, I'd rather have my coin back eventually than never!

Try EastCoastFuego or RxKing, just read their listings first (which are pretty fucking hilarious), and follow their directions. Hopefully they have what you are looking for and ask them if you don't see it posted. Both of them will give you a good, fast deal with no need to FE.

I've built up stats without FEing and now anyone will sell to me.
Title: Re: Building newbie rep through FE
Post by: HenryC0833 on August 25, 2013, 04:39 pm
I don't think FE builds up meaningful ratings for either the vendor or the buyer.  It suggests one is a scammer and one is a pidgeon. 
Title: Re: Building newbie rep through FE
Post by: incubusdriver on August 25, 2013, 05:39 pm
Unfortunately, the only vendor selling a decent range of cigarettes (and the brand I was looking for), requires FE "on every order" regardless of buyer stats. Shame really.
Title: Re: Building newbie rep through FE
Post by: wishihada2JZ on August 25, 2013, 05:45 pm
Some great posts in this thread! All concurrent with one of the first things you learn on your travels on the road, never, ever FE. I forget exactly the name but tony76 I believe? Maybe a veteran can chime in and correct me if I'm mistaken. Dude was a trusted vendor to thousands, one of the highest ranked on SR, one day announced a big sale but required everyone FE, poof. Disappears. Maybe he was a dick scammer, maybe he got busted. Who knows. The sad moral of the story is many many buyers lost a great deal of their precious BTC because they FE.
Title: Re: Building newbie rep through FE
Post by: wishihada2JZ on August 25, 2013, 05:47 pm
Oh also as a side note to anyone with few/no purchasing stats, other than biscuit's epic suggestion, there are plenty of vendors with great products and great reputations willing to work with new customers without requiring FE. I recently made a few purchases from several vendors, none of which required a FE and all were friendly and fast in communication.
Title: Re: Building newbie rep through FE
Post by: prettyboyfloyd on August 25, 2013, 08:46 pm
Aw shit.
I've been chatting back n forth with this vendor who's saying he's been skanked by newbies, seems to have a solid ratings base and although there's not much on the boards about him, frequent-posting sellers seem very happy with what he does. He has the product I want. And is asking for FE because the claims against him are more than he'd expect proportional to what he posts with an emphasis on newbie purchases.

Of course I just want the goods. But I can also see where there's going to be chancers chipping in on sellers for a quick score then shrugging "fuck you see I can just do this". Yeah I'm maybe letting my eyes rule my appetite and maybe I should just go for a seller that doesn't want FE until I've reached the stats that will satisfy this feller. Maybe an issue here is that I'm confining myself to domestic at this point - why bring customs into it until I've got a feel for a straight-up seller?

JoyceBradburyKing's post sounds like a worry maybe. To me it sounds like the vendor's decided they can do without FE - personally I'd wait for either the package or a request for FE payment. I've done a lot of introducing myself to this vendor of mine and he's chatted right back. (There's a couple of others where we've not exchanged messages but they're processing. and I can't see SR because of the update atm). To me it doesn't seem unreasonable not to trust a newbie to choose a dispute over finalising. I've been a vendor myself - not here and not for years - and have had some of that. People complain because they think they can get away with it, think you're mainly focused on making your market, believe you're too desperate for custom to squawk about it or whatever.

Maybe the update will sort things out, for the future.

In a perfect world FE would absolutely not be necessary, but like Tesselated said, some drugs are just going to attract a particular kind of customer. I've got heroin ordered and the vendor's page says he's going to want to see previous purchases but I've heard nothing yet; there's also a coke order from what looks like a big volume quality supplier with no hints on newbie FE. It'd be nice to get a focus on the reliability of buyers besides their stats after they've joined. No idea how that could be done though...

PS It's been a bit of a long afternoon so this here post might include a couple of vague bits :o

e2a I guess I provided the short answer myself earlier (which I've now read elsewhere on various threads): if the condition is FE, then you need a tracking number first, and to at least see the thing's been put in the mail. With the product quality, well that comes down to whether you're going to use the vendor again innit. I'm learning, learning...
Title: Re: Building newbie rep through FE
Post by: JoyceBradburyKing on August 25, 2013, 09:00 pm
Still no message but to be fair my stats are only marginally behind what the vendor required. They also seem to be much easier on domestic.

Buying digital goods or even playing a few of the games/lotteries seems like a good way to build up buyer rating. If you can burn about $50 while losing, not complaining and leaving good feedback on a lottery it seems to me that you are going to seem like a more flexible buyer who won't whine or try to scam/freebie the vendor at every opportunity.

Spend some money to prove you are there to actually buy things, not use one off accounts to rip people off.
Title: Re: Building newbie rep through FE
Post by: Crusader33 on August 25, 2013, 09:06 pm
It should state in their profile whether they require FE for new members. If not, just message them. GOOD vendor will be glad to help you out.

I remember my first purchase was from HappySmoke420 and he never asks noobs for FE. Just look for the right vendor, and not the lowest price..
Title: Re: Building newbie rep through FE
Post by: prettyboyfloyd on August 25, 2013, 09:11 pm
Hell I'm looking for the right PRODUCT, then rep, then price. I've done far too many drugs to be particularly worried about the vendor except their honesty as a trader. It's not the kind of biz where you really want to get personal (unless you're a hippy etc)

But on the other side of things, there's cunts who want drugs and don't let you know in advance. Just because a person's got cash in their hands, that's no guarantee of character is it.
Title: Re: Building newbie rep through FE
Post by: JoyceBradburyKing on August 25, 2013, 09:15 pm
Drugs and gambling are risky, eyebrow raising, rage inducing businesses. So if you can handle one amiably then there's a good chance you can handle the other.

Sit at a poker table once in a while and see the wrong person lose. Crazy shit, enough to put the most ludicrous conspiracy nuts to shame .
Title: Re: Building newbie rep through FE
Post by: expandmind on August 25, 2013, 10:39 pm
Here’s what I, as a vendor, can do to eliminate the need to ever ask for FE:

1) Ship a product of a quality and quantity that my buyer will be happy with.
2) Employ stealth packaging that will ensure the safe delivery of that product.
3) Include tracking so that, if necessary, the delivery of the order can be verified.
4) State clearly on my vendor page that no refund will be given if tracking shows the item was delivered or if delivery was not possible due to a bad shipping address being provided by the buyer.

Now where’s the risk to me, as a vendor, whether the buyer has 100 previous purchases or zero? The product gets where it’s going and the buyer is happy and finalizes. If the buyer doesn’t finalize, the order will auto-finalize. If the buyer tries to be a dick scammer and take it to resolution, he’ll lose because I’ve done everything right on my end. Sorry, but the whole idea that new buyers should show sympathy for the risks assumed by vendors and do the right thing by FE'ing just doesn't make sense to me.

Just say no to finalizing early!

Thank you for the advice to newbies, much appreciated.
Title: Re: Building newbie rep through FE
Post by: prettyboyfloyd on August 25, 2013, 10:54 pm
Here’s what I, as a vendor, can do to eliminate the need to ever ask for FE:

1) Ship a product of a quality and quantity that my buyer will be happy with.
2) Employ stealth packaging that will ensure the safe delivery of that product.
3) Include tracking so that, if necessary, the delivery of the order can be verified.
4) State clearly on my vendor page that no refund will be given if tracking shows the item was delivered or if delivery was not possible due to a bad shipping address being provided by the buyer.

Now where’s the risk to me, as a vendor, whether the buyer has 100 previous purchases or zero? The product gets where it’s going and the buyer is happy and finalizes. If the buyer doesn’t finalize, the order will auto-finalize. If the buyer tries to be a dick scammer and take it to resolution, he’ll lose because I’ve done everything right on my end. Sorry, but the whole idea that new buyers should show sympathy for the risks assumed by vendors and do the right thing by FE'ing just doesn't make sense to me.

Just say no to finalizing early!
Sure, but are you selling products that are 'easy' e.g. mainly sort of recreational? Different drugs and vendors have different customer bases e.g. heroin, meth. The biz there is often in the markup and instrinsic quality of the product - the deal itself is much more troublesome than might be the case in say molly. What you're saying is fair enough, but by your reckoning a drug that causes people to be maybe a little less organized (or where the quality of a particular product gets people salivating in a way that makes them forget their essentially decent selves) to flush the deal. Some products are just more fraught to sell, because user expectation puts the buy into a different league. I'm sure there's peeps around here who are hunting quality they've not been able to find on the street or close to home. Under these circs, isn't a trackable package from the vendor fair exchange for FE from the buyer?
Title: Re: Building newbie rep through FE
Post by: PowerToCharm on August 27, 2013, 07:12 pm
Of course it's true that different drugs have vastly different cultures surrounding them, making their sale and purchase more or less dangerous, complicated, etc. This is absolutely the case with IRL dealing, and also true with online sales, though perhaps less so. But I feel that the points I've outlined apply absolutely regardless of the product being sold. As long as I do what I'm supposed to do once an order is placed, I get paid. If my buyer is a total fiend, I still get paid. If my buyer falls over dead, goes to jail, ends up homeless, I still get paid, and without requiring FE.
Title: Re: Building newbie rep through FE
Post by: TSCrew on August 27, 2013, 07:45 pm
You can always build rep by:

Buying lots of lottery transactions that are <$1.00
And then buy 1 lot of cash delivered for say $112 for $100 bill delivered to your house.

so say you buy 20 $.19 lottery and 1 $112 bill. You basically paid $16 for 21 transactions with over $116 spent...
Title: Re: Building newbie rep through FE
Post by: incubusdriver on August 27, 2013, 07:52 pm
But wouldn't the chaps selling money be equally cautious until you'd built your stats up?
Title: Re: Building newbie rep through FE
Post by: swishaman on August 27, 2013, 08:13 pm
to me personally being a newbie I believe it all depends on what the vendor is selling. IM not here for the drugs I can go down the street for that, mainly here for downloads and forgeries.

I believe certain forgeries ID SS cards, things that are physical can be FEed after your approval of seeing the hard copy buy picture. anything downloadable can be screen shot then FEed.

The drug game is tricky and being most stuff is overly priced here and then your btc rates are so finky i don't think FE is smart at all unless your in desperate want for it and even then its still dumb.

As a business you have to take a calculated risk and be prepared for shrinkage. Making the consumer sketched by forcing FE does nothing but decrease your possible profit margins.

I think we all just need to realize is what we are dealing with is black market sales and we have to face the idea we will be dealing with crooks and the crooked. Its risky business both ways if you cant afford to take the loss then don't gamble. Simple enough
Title: Re: Building newbie rep through FE
Post by: vivecs on August 27, 2013, 08:17 pm
Buy some porn
Title: Re: Building newbie rep through FE
Post by: incubusdriver on August 27, 2013, 08:28 pm
I think we all just need to realize is what we are dealing with is black market sales and we have to face the idea we will be dealing with crooks and the crooked.

I hear ya swishaman. But I think a lot less people on here than you'd expect are actually crooked. Lawbreakers perhaps, but decent people. Of course you're going to get crooks, but you'll get those anywhere. Wherever there are rules, there will be people trying to get around them for selfish personal gain.