Silk Road forums
Discussion => Drug safety => Topic started by: Festivalia on June 25, 2013, 09:17 pm
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I want to start an open conversation with hard-core users who go to hard-core extremes to either make sure they do not become addicted, or to physically 'interrupt' the withdrawals from an addiction.
When I have slight withdrawals from opiates, I find that uncut fish-scale cocaine takes the bone-cramps and muscle spasms away for 20-40 minutes. Anyone who has gone through opiate withdrawal knows that your "cramp spells" only last about 10-30 minutes and come out of nowhere. There's really nothing you can do... it'll wake you out of a dead-sleep, and have you feeling like you just want to bench-press 1000 lbs, as many times as you can, as fast as possible.... just to tire yourself out. One bump of pure coke, and 60 seconds later all of my bullshit aches and discomfort is gone. Am I high off the coke? A little... but just barely. Coke was my FIRST addiction as a young teen, and definitely the worse withdrawals I've ever experienced in my life, so there's something that keeps me from over doing it with Cocaine in my adult life. ;)
In the past, when I've had to deal with pretty hard-core opiate withdrawals... eating 115 MG of pure MDMA Hcl, and smoking 50mg of N,N, DMT usually is enough to completely interrupt the withdrawals. I would imagine if I did Heroin in place of Oxys, that Ibogaine might be the only way of doing what I have been doing.
Anyway, I want to hear other peoples methods, and stories. Especially those who've cleansed their souls via Ayahuasca or Ibogaine!
Also, for those combating addiction to cigarettes, there's 1 effective method... replace the bad habits with healthy ones. Every time you want a cigarette, eat a grape. Every time you crave, do a 5-10 minute 'work-out' ... you will find that your cravings go away much faster, and before you know it... you'll be eating and living a healthier life than most of your friends who sit around doing nothing all the time. :P
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I've never gotten to the point of actual addiction but I noticed that speed removes all cravings when I've been using for some days in a row. It's probably similar to why coke helps removes the cramps for you.
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I have never used it for addiction interuption, but I have used ibogaine for personal growth and self exploration. Its a very tough process to go through. Lots of vomiting and a heavy body load. The introspective state it puts you in is nothing at all like classical psychedelics. More like a combination of delerients and dissociatives.
The thing about Ibogaine vs other psychedelics is that in some cases it wont just interrupt the withdrawals. All the bad things you have ever done, all the people you have hurt, will all be played before your eyes like a movie and it beats that into you and wont let go until you have learned the lessons that it has for you to learn. There are no pretty sparkling colored visuals, Its all very very real and sometimes you cannot tell that the hallucinations are just hallucinations (think datura here.) In some cases It can actually make someone never ever want to use again, as though the memory of the positive effect of the drug is wiped out completely and replaced with the truth, all the bad things it makes you do instead of how good it initially felt.
Pharmacologically its a full on receptor assult. It acts as an NMDA antagonist (dissociative), 5HT2A agonist (psychedelic), and a kappa opioid receptor agonist (salvia like), it also acts as an anticholinergic (specifically antinicotinic). Some of its metabolites have pharmacological activity as well, noribogaine being a long lasting and incredibly potent SSRI (selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor), and a weak agonist at mu-opioid receptor sites.
Ibogaine is dangerous and can kill, therefor it is important to be screened for any pre-existing heart conditions before taking it and not to mix it with any other bioactive or psychoactive drugs. As far as visionary compounds go its kind of the holy grail of introspective experiences seeing as how it targets essentially every receptor site associated with hallucinogenic activity.
Ki-values in μM[41] (a smaller value demonstrates higher binding affinity)
Receptor Ibogaine Noribogaine
κ-opioid 2.2 0.61
μ-opioid 2.0 0.68
δ-opioid >10 5.2
NMDA 3.1 15
5-HT2A 16 >100
5-HT2C >10 >10
5-HT3 2.6 >100
σ1 2.5 11
σ2 0.4 1
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So it's not pleasant at all? I've read a number of reports and most of them reported a very pleasant effect during the second half of the journey that lasted for months (to a lesser extent). They all reported that the first half was horrible though. Ibogaine seems like a pretty interesting psychedelic but it should probably only be used by the seasoned psychedelic users.
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Oh I didn't say it wasn't pleasant, its just as you said, the initial visionary stage isn't where the euphoria comes in, its the afterglow that makes it so worth while. Yeah the positive afterglow from ibogaine last much much longer than with traditional psychedelics. I would definately not even the first stage is horrible, its just difficult. There is a stark difference between horrible and difficult. Those familiar with the body load of ayahuasca and the purge will be more able to withstand the initial pain of ibogaine as its similar (in terms of bodily effects) but more intense. It also depends on whether your using pure ibogaine or iboga root bark (body load is much worse with root bark.)
If your the kind of person who can stand a really really long trip and some intense discomfort than go for it. Just make sure your in good shape physically first, its definitely worth it. No serotonergic psychedelic can prepare you for this experience as honestly its more dissociative than psychedelic although there are aspects of both. Its not as unpleasant as datura by any stretch of the imagination (it doesn't feel like torture), but the visuals have some similarities with datura visuals in how realistic it is. Just dont expect pretty patterns like classical psychedelics, expect a very deep introspective state. Its definately worth giving a go once. I don't think I would do it again at least not for a really long time but I am glad I tried it.
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Well I definitely would like to try it once but I think I should gain more experience with other psychedelics first, it seems way too strong for now. Low doses are said to be tonic and MDMA like though, that seems interesting, it's used by African hunters at low doses because it heightens their senses.
Sorry for highjacking your thread Festivalia!
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Well I definitely would like to try it once but I think I should gain more experience with other psychedelics first, it seems way too strong for now. Low doses are said to be tonic and MDMA like though, that seems interesting, it's used by African hunters at low doses because it heightens their senses.
Sorry for highjacking your thread Festivalia!
Don't be sorry; be silly! Thankfully, you're both intelligent people, and by 'highjacking' my thread you've only informed more people. :)
I don't think I would do Ibogaine unless I 'had' to. I would do Ayahuasca though. I suppose you could compare the two the same way you would compare N,N, DMT to 5-meo in terms of intensity-difference? N,N, DMT is visual to me, psychedelic, comfortable. 5-meo, is physical, dissociative, heavy load, half the time uncomfortable...
I've had several experience on 5-meo DMT lasted 25-45 minutes. I was completely aware of my self, or lack thereof, and there was a lot of "fear" and "regret" and "guilt", feeling like I was being crushed, or set aflame... but the 6 month after-glow, the feeling of having gone deep within yourself to solve personal issues, is worth the intensity.
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Yeah 5-MeO-DMT has a pretty heavy body load, there's a lot of pressure on your chest and your heart feels like it's gonna explode... It's surprising that there isn't any visuals or at least a buzzing sound. I wonder if Ibogaine's body load is worse.
I'd be curious to know if Ibogaine is to Ayahuasca what 5-MeO is to DMT, even though Ayahuasca's main ingredient is DMT.
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No I would say Ibogaine is more like combining a serotonergic psychedelic + ketamine or MXE + plus a low dose of datura without the shitty anticholinergic body feeling. Ibogaine is pretty much a giant drug combination all in one.
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Yeah 5-MeO-DMT has a pretty heavy body load, there's a lot of pressure on your chest and your heart feels like it's gonna explode... It's surprising that there isn't any visuals or at least a buzzing sound. I wonder if Ibogaine's body load is worse.
I'd be curious to know if Ibogaine is to Ayahuasca what 5-MeO is to DMT, even though Ayahuasca's main ingredient is DMT.
I got 'visuals' from 5-meo... but they felt more real than anything. Like a lucid dream, but nothing was under MY control.
With N,N, DMT I get the same types of visuals one gets on Acid, and if I smoke a lot, it becomes like Shrooms...
...with 5-meo, I simply get the WARP SPEED visuals, where the world is flying by, followed by that dream-state. Once I wake up, I usually have to use some other form of psychedelic to even comprehend what I saw/thought/heard. There is ALWAYS a loud buzzing that shatters reality for me on 5-meo; never got that from N,N, DMT.
The memories of a 'few' of the 'dimensions' from mt 5-meo trips stick out... but others, like some form of trauma, my brain blacks out every time.
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No I would say Ibogaine is more like combining a serotonergic psychedelic + ketamine or MXE + plus a low dose of datura without the shitty anticholinergic body feeling. Ibogaine is pretty much a giant drug combination all in one.
Worse drug combo I ever did was an over-dose of Mole-mine(Mdma + Ketamine) + LSD. Was stuck in a K-hole, while over-heating/pissing myself from too much Molly, WHILE coming-up on the acid... It was NOT a good time at ALL.
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I guess I didn't enough 5-MeO then because I definitely didn't get such effects.
Worse drug combo I ever did was an over-dose of Mole-mine(Mdma + Ketamine) + LSD. Was stuck in a K-hole, while over-heating/pissing myself from too much Molly, WHILE coming-up on the acid... It was NOT a good time at ALL.
LOL ;D
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If I could stop smoking weed,
I would be rich as fuck.
Or if I could just grow it.
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I guess I didn't enough 5-MeO then because I definitely didn't get such effects.
Worse drug combo I ever did was an over-dose of Mole-mine(Mdma + Ketamine) + LSD. Was stuck in a K-hole, while over-heating/pissing myself from too much Molly, WHILE coming-up on the acid... It was NOT a good time at ALL.
LOL ;D
Really? I did 10 MG my first time, and it felt like N,N, minus the visuals. The 2nd time, my buddy being a wiseass dumped like 100+ mg on a bowl (you need 20 mg of 5-meo to fully blast usually) and I was in for something WAY more than I bargained for. I've done it several times since on a high dose, but I would totally not recommend that for the faint-hearted. My GF has to hold me down/back while my friend lit the bowl; each time there was 4 or 5 distinct layers of existence. Crazy shit.
I have not been able to blast off regular N,N, even w/ 150mg, since then. It would be sweet to do the IV research in a controlled setting. O_O
**I could PROB. blast-off on N,N... but I can't stand the taste. 5-meo is a one-hit quit, fooorrreevvvveerrrr lol
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Also, I said I don't recommend it; to the outside world, you're basically having an epileptic seizure. :P
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I had a hardcore opiate addiction and have gone through horrible withdrawls more times than I can count. Through trial and error I've found this combo to work the best: STRONG weed, xanax, and neurotin during the day, and valium at night. I know some people can get addicted to xanax but I never take it unless I am dopesick so I never felt addicted to it.
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^^ Its much easier to get addicted to opiates than benzos, but if you do get addicted to benzos the withdrawals are way worse. Benzo withdrawal can actually kill you, it causes seizures and delerium tremens. Opiate withdrawal makes you feel like absolute shit. Serious benzo withdrawal will send you straight to the hospital flailing like a fish out of water and being completely delerious and anxiety ridden. In the hospital they will give you... wait, you guessed it, more benzos, then try to taper you down slowly drawing out your withdrawal and prolonging your pain.
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^^ Its much easier to get addicted to opiates than benzos, but if you do get addicted to benzos the withdrawals are way worse. Benzo withdrawal can actually kill you, it causes seizures and delerium tremens. Opiate withdrawal makes you feel like absolute shit. Serious benzo withdrawal will send you straight to the hospital flailing like a fish out of water and being completely delerious and anxiety ridden. In the hospital they will give you... wait, you guessed it, more benzos, then try to taper you down slowly drawing out your withdrawal and prolonging your pain.
Truth. I know someone who had to be on a liquid valium drip for several weaks, while being on anti-psychotics and anti-epileptic drugs to counter-act withdrawals(even with liquid Valium in her system). It nearly killed her anyway, she had a Grand Mal Seizure.
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I want to add that I only do very small-cut lines of pure uncut fish-scale cocaine, within a minute of the on-set of a "sore back" or "cramp" or "spasm" associated with my opiate withdrawal. --I battled a severe cocaine and adderall/amphetamine addiction as a young teenager, and was clean by 17 after 4-5 years of heavy use. The Withdrawals were ungodly, and I was suicidal at points. Sleeping 20+ hours out of 24, and gorging on fatty/sugary foods, taking a shit every 3-4 days... just one... pebbles. Body was riddled with pain, and lethargic feelings. So, I know not to chase the dragon... with ANY drug... let alone cocaine.
The withdrawal symptoms I experience from Opiates are minor in comparison to some. I never really exceed more than 15-20 mg of Oxy in a day. I have blown a whole 30 quite a few times, but never usually when I'm sober. My withdrawals are due to a long-term built-up tolerance of occasional use. Never got them until years of using 30's here and there.
As I've gotten older, they have gotten worse. So, when I use opiates... I am ALWAYS prepared to be cranky, miserable, sore and restless for the 2-3 days to come after any 'use' of any amount over 7.5mg, or 1/4 of a 30MG Pill.
This method would definitely not be very effective for combating withdrawal symptoms of Heroin addiction.
Depending on your level of Heroin addiction, therapeutic intervention with MDMA-counceling and/or an intense psychedelic may be in order. Cocaine definitely will not distract your body from feeling the ouch. :P
**I can still 'feel' the dulling sensation that would normally be a throbbing ache deep in my spine and back muscles. However, due to the numbing effects of coke, that really is a dull sensation. I have to focus on it and sit very still to feel it.
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^^ Its much easier to get addicted to opiates than benzos, but if you do get addicted to benzos the withdrawals are way worse. Benzo withdrawal can actually kill you, it causes seizures and delerium tremens. Opiate withdrawal makes you feel like absolute shit. Serious benzo withdrawal will send you straight to the hospital flailing like a fish out of water and being completely delerious and anxiety ridden. In the hospital they will give you... wait, you guessed it, more benzos, then try to taper you down slowly drawing out your withdrawal and prolonging your pain.
I disagree, opiate withdrawls can be deadly too. There have been people at the methadone clinics that are prescribed 200mgs daily for decades and then one week they don't have funds and the doctors will cut them off cold turkey. If you're lucky they might give you a week of weening down but that isn't near long enough of a taper to not be VERY dangerous. Methadone withdrawls can last for months....it has never made sense to me to treat a person that's addicted to heroin by prescribing them an even more addictive drug.
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Really? I did 10 MG my first time, and it felt like N,N, minus the visuals. The 2nd time, my buddy being a wiseass dumped like 100+ mg on a bowl (you need 20 mg of 5-meo to fully blast usually) and I was in for something WAY more than I bargained for. I've done it several times since on a high dose, but I would totally not recommend that for the faint-hearted. My GF has to hold me down/back while my friend lit the bowl; each time there was 4 or 5 distinct layers of existence. Crazy shit.
I have not been able to blast off regular N,N, even w/ 150mg, since then. It would be sweet to do the IV research in a controlled setting. O_O
**I could PROB. blast-off on N,N... but I can't stand the taste. 5-meo is a one-hit quit, fooorrreevvvveerrrr lol
Wow 100mg of 5-MeO :o That's like half a gram of DMT!! You're lucky to not have suffered any long term effects from such a high dose, I've seen reports of people having problems for years after taking 50mg of 5-MeO and you took twice that. Your friend was being kind of an asshole by giving you that much.