Silk Road forums
Discussion => Drug safety => Topic started by: AnimusVox on April 25, 2013, 06:43 am
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I have noticed over the months that many members continually report jaw clenches (bruxism) and muscle twitches (fasciculations) when partaking in MDMA. While it's noted here and there by myself and others, I thought I would reiterate the point in a very simple fashion: take magnesium and these jaw clenches and muscle twitches will be almost completely alleviated. Also, ensure that you purchase a BIOAVAILABLE magnesium supplement, such as magnesium glycinate. The most common form which is found in stores, magnesium oxide, is absolutely terrible, so AVOID IT! In taking magnesium glycinate, you will also cut out the nasty shits and stomach discomfort typically experienced with the oxide derivative. As far as brand goes, my personal recommendation is Doctors Best High Absorption Magnesium, which is found cheaply on Amazon. Finally for dosing, take 200mg elemental Mg 6 hours prior, again 1 hour prior, and finally 2 hours into the roll. I hope someone finds this useful! Cheers. :)
Further reading for the drug nerds out there:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23179355
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1044576584710128
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1661812
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Also, ensure that you purchase a BIOAVAILABLE magnesium supplement, such as magnesium glycinate. The most common form which is found in stores, magnesium oxide, is absolutely terrible, so AVOID IT!
Interesting. Why is oxide so bad? Are the healthy benefits the same?
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Magnesium is a substance the readily binds to insoluble salts in the stomach and intestines which makes it hard to absorb. However, if you chelate the magnesium molecule to a soluble amino acid, it prevents its binding to insoluble salts, as well as opening up the possibilities for active transport. This means that fully chelated magnesium is absorbed much better by the body. Magnesium oxide is the absolute worst for this purpose, and magnesium glycinate the best. The simple reason for oxide existing is because it is cheaply made. Think of it in comparison to purchasing the cheap, store brand 1 ply toilet paper (oxide), or spending a few bucks more for the Charmin Ultra Strong brand (glycinate).
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Magnesium is a substance the readily binds to insoluble salts in the stomach and intestines which makes it hard to absorb.
Interesting. It's harder to absorb, but will be absorbed eventually, right?
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Unfortunately not, as according to the National Institutes of Health magnesium oxide is not absorbed well in the intestines, at only a ~4% rate. Compare that to the ~80% rate of glycinate, which is a 1900% increase in bioavailability! The majority of magnesium oxide essentially will not bind, will remain in the digestive tract creating a very uncomfortable laxative effect, and will then eventually completely pass through your digestive system and be excreted through the urine. Honestly, there shouldn't be any reason an individual purchases anything but magnesium glycinate. Doctors Best High Absorption Magnesium is only $15.89 on Amazon right now for a 240 count bottle, and contains 200mg of elemental Mg that is highly bioavailable.
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Magnesium Oxide is also pro-oxidative while Magnesium Glycinate is an antioxidant.
Would you mind providing a source for this? I've truthfully never heard this statement, and I've seemingly tapped my resources in trying to find something on the matter. I do know that magnesium glycinate is reported to help aide in the delivery of antioxidants as a whole by allowing for higher antioxidant capacity, but I have not heard it to be an actual antioxidant in itself. Since magnesium oxide has such a terrible absorption rate compared to oxide, I wouldn't think that it's inherently pro-oxidative, but instead is far less effective in aiding in the delivery of antioxidants. Either way, any insight you can offer would be appreciated. Thank you, sir! :)
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I just took MDMA for the first time today and am having very bad back pains, will magnesium glycinate help that?
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Good advice Animus! I find Mg glycinate to help tremendously when I'm either on MDMA or LSD. Without it, I have to consciously think about not clenching and my jaw often feels twitchy the following few days. I usually take 400mg of mg glycinate 1-2 hours before dosing, and another 400mg if I remember to somewhere in the middle of my trip. Seems to work pretty well, and a few of my friends couldn't believe the difference when I introduced magnesium into their drug trips.
I also take about 1000-1500mg of Tryptophan whenever I finish a roll/trip which seems to aid in my recovery. Tryptophan is supposed to work better than straight 5-HTP as it metabolizes with less strain on the body and more efficiently replenishes serotonin levels in the brain.
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I just took MDMA for the first time today and am having very bad back pains, will magnesium glycinate help that?
The MDMA is probably not the reason for the back pain, but instead was caused from whatever activity you did while on MDMA. At this point just the normal stuff such as icing, ibuprofen/naproxen and lots of water and eating properly will help the most!!
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I just took MDMA for the first time today and am having very bad back pains, will magnesium glycinate help that?
The MDMA is probably not the reason for the back pain, but instead was caused from whatever activity you did while on MDMA. At this point just the normal stuff such as icing, ibuprofen/naproxen and lots of water and eating properly will help the most!!
well most of the time was spent laying down on a bed for hours, so maybe that's why my back is sore lol ???
anyways thanks, i'm going to take some ibuprofen and hope it goes away
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Magnesium and MXE, anyone?
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I'm taking this one:
http://www.jamiesonvitamins.com/2707
I believe it's oxide.
Does the fact that magnesium oxide has low bio-availability and is not absorbed efficiently represent a risk?
I hope not.
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Unfortunately not, as according to the National Institutes of Health magnesium oxide is not absorbed well in the intestines, at only a ~4% rate. Compare that to the ~80% rate of glycinate, which is a 1900% increase in bioavailability!
Got a citation for the 80% number?
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Subbed! 8)
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Think of it in comparison to purchasing the cheap, store brand 1 ply toilet paper (oxide), or spending a few bucks more for the Charmin Ultra Strong brand (glycinate).
i'll stick with oxide then. love my store brand 1 ply. no gf here so no need for the ultra for to wipe her dried up dags off with
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I 2nd you on all of this.. I recommend it all the time to people along with 5HTP
Very good call.. I have thought about offing up a write up on MDMA and other substances that people tend to mix with it along with pre and post loading.. Any interests out there?
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Unfortunately not, as according to the National Institutes of Health magnesium oxide is not absorbed well in the intestines, at only a ~4% rate. Compare that to the ~80% rate of glycinate, which is a 1900% increase in bioavailability!
Got a citation for the 80% number?
Ahh, touche my good sir! I honestly just briefly glanced at a LongeCity thread (http://www.longecity.org/forum/topic/16932-bioavailability-elemental-of-magnesium-types/) and used that as my reference, but I failed to look deeper at the sources myself, and regretabbly I'm actually unable to find the studies that they are even referring to. Thanks for making note of my oversight, I'll dig a little deeper for absorption rates and keep you posted! :)
I 2nd you on all of this.. I recommend it all the time to people along with 5HTP
Very good call.. I have thought about offing up a write up on MDMA and other substances that people tend to mix with it along with pre and post loading.. Any interests out there?
Hey buddy, I've actually compiled a list of pre/post-loading supplements for MDA but are identical for MDMA usage as well. You can find that thread over here: http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?topic=147668. If you'd like to chime in or create a new thread for your preferred pre/post-loading practices, then I'm all for it! The more information, the merrier. Just be sure to include your sources. :)
Here is the part I hope you as well as many others will find useful:
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- Preloading and postloading are two staples for enriching the MDA experience and almost entirely negating the potential for neurotoxic damage. Not only do they alleviate neurotoxicity, but you will find your roll to be much more smooth and grant you with a beautiful afterglow instead of a hangover. Here are a few essential supplements that are key to a proper regimen. If you are unable to purchase these supplements or take them as advised, I will recommend that green tea, orange juice, or Emergen-C packets as they will lightly aide in providing antioxidants. However, these two should NOT be considered an all inclusive replacement. They come recommended on a "better than nothing" basis and pressure should be placed on picking up the appropriate supplements.
* Na-R-ALA (Alpha Lipoic Acid): This is a powerful antioxidant that eliminates free roaming reactive oxygen and nitrogen particles, in turn reducing neurotoxicity. Dose 100mg of Na-R-ALA 30 minutes prior to rolling and 2 hours into the roll. Ensure that you purchase the Na-R-ALA isomer form of ALA. While Racemic ALA is okay, Na-R-ALA is much more efficient.
* Magnesium glycinate: Magnesium is a phenomenal substance that will alleviate the bruxism (jaw clenching) and fasciculations (muscle twitches) commonly experienced when taking MDA. Dose 400mg elemental magnesium glycinate 6 hours prior to rolling, again 30 minutes prior, and finally 2 hours into the roll. Be sure you purchase either magnesium glycinate (preferred) or magnesium citrate. The most common form, magnesium oxide, is not readily absorbed, so completely avoid it.
* Vitamin C: The most common antioxidant out there and has been shown to mitigate MDA induced hepatotoxicity and neurotoxicity. Dose 1,000mg of vitamin C 30 minutes prior to rolling.
* Vitamin E: A powerful antioxidant that will seek out free radicals. Dose 400 IU 30 minutes prior to rolling.
* Green Tea Extract (EGCG): EGCG is a potent antioxidant and diuretic. It will help with the urinary retention arising from MDA induced vasopressin release. Dose 400mg 30 minutes prior, and 2 hours into the roll.
* 5-HTP: 5-HTP is the direct precursor to serotonin. Supplementing 100mg of 5-HTP with 400mg of EGCG (EGCG will help 5-HTP cross the blood-brain barrier more efficiently) at bedtime for 5-7 days after rolling will aid your body in restoring serotonin to their proper levels. Warning: 5-HTP can cause cardiac fibrosis when used in high doses over extended periods of time, so avoid taking 5-HTP in high doses for more than 5-7 days.
* Melatonin: Melatonin is created from serotonin, and since your serotonin levels will be low, taking a melatonin supplement will help you fall asleep. Melatonin is also a powerful antioxidant. Take 5-10mg of melatonin prior to falling asleep after rolling.
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I shall check out your thread then.. Thank you kindly. :)
I have just seen so many people asking the same sorts of questions that I thought ti was a great idea. ;)
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oxide does not work for this at all. I was taking magnesium oxide and 5htp along with multivitamins for several months and rolled a few times during this experiment. Still jaw clenched just as bad if not worse.