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Discussion => Security => Topic started by: username5055 on November 03, 2012, 05:57 pm

Title: Undercover cop concerns, opinions?
Post by: username5055 on November 03, 2012, 05:57 pm
Ok, so I have to go through a new local guy for my supply of fire-mids. I dont know this guy personally, he was referred to me. The person who referred him is an acquaintance who occasionally is a customer.  I've always known my suppliers first hand before but for this guy I want to play it safe in case he's undercover or a narc.

I've heard making them take bong hits is a fairly-concrete way of making sure they arent undercover, is this true? They can fake joint hits and such but it's impossible to fake a solid bong hit. Is this a decent way to check? I've also heard that they can do whatever drugs they want which is why I ask.

And do they HAVE to wear a wire? Reason being I can get signal-jamming gear to place in the room to interfere with said electronics. If I were to tell them about said gear and they spooked this would obviously be a sign they were undercover, only if they were required to have a recording of the event. Is this the case?

Any ideas or personal strats to avoid narcs? The most extreme way I could think of was a double blind drop with a faux pick-up to see if they nab the pickup but I'm not entirely sure this guy would do that for just a Lb of fire-mids lol ($600 seems kinda low to warrant all that trouble from a supplier aspect)

Thanks!
Title: Re: Undercover cop concerns, opinions?
Post by: psychedelicmind on November 03, 2012, 06:22 pm
I'm not 100% sure, but I think if you ask them straight out if they are a cop, they have to tell you.
Otherwise, it is entrapment. You might want to look that up, but I think that is how it works where I am from.

Always go with your gut instinct in these circumstances; if you feel something isn't right, get the fuck out of there.

Best of luck,

Psy
Title: Re: Undercover cop concerns, opinions?
Post by: KarmaPharm on November 03, 2012, 06:56 pm
I'm not 100% sure, but I think if you ask them straight out if they are a cop, they have to tell you.
Otherwise, it is entrapment. You might want to look that up, but I think that is how it works where I am from.

Always go with your gut instinct in these circumstances; if you feel something isn't right, get the fuck out of there.

Best of luck,

Psy

Malarkey lol, they dont have to tell anyone no matter what they're asked. BUT they absolutely cannot give drugs out. They can have their controlled buys and sells and all that, but they CANNOT let the drugs get back out into the environment. The drugs are not to escape! They must bring back exactly what they left with. SO you can use your imagination with this. Find a polite way of saying, "sell me a little bit of drugs (a 1/2 gram or something), and I will come back for more."
Title: Re: Undercover cop concerns, opinions?
Post by: namuld on November 03, 2012, 07:45 pm
I'm not 100% sure, but I think if you ask them straight out if they are a cop, they have to tell you.
Otherwise, it is entrapment. You might want to look that up, but I think that is how it works where I am from.

NONONONONO.

Read this clearnett link: http://thecriminallawyer.tumblr.com/post/19810672629/12-i-was-entrapped

It's only entrapment if:
The police caused you to commit a crime which you wouldn't have committed otherwise.
So if you try to say you were entrapped by the cop because he lied and said he wasn't one it wouldn't work because you were already planning on buying drugs. The cop didn't force you to buy/sell to him.
Title: Re: Undercover cop concerns, opinions?
Post by: brutusk on November 03, 2012, 08:59 pm
I'm not 100% sure, but I think if you ask them straight out if they are a cop, they have to tell you.
Otherwise, it is entrapment. You might want to look that up, but I think that is how it works where I am from.

Always go with your gut instinct in these circumstances; if you feel something isn't right, get the fuck out of there.

Best of luck,

Psy

Malarkey lol, they dont have to tell anyone no matter what they're asked. BUT they absolutely cannot give drugs out. They can have their controlled buys and sells and all that, but they CANNOT let the drugs get back out into the environment. The drugs are not to escape! They must bring back exactly what they left with. SO you can use your imagination with this. Find a polite way of saying, "sell me a little bit of drugs (a 1/2 gram or something), and I will come back for more."

My lawyer told me this, too. They can do pretty much anything, but they cannot release drugs that are not coming back to the LE system such as in a bust.
Title: Re: Undercover cop concerns, opinions?
Post by: SexyWax on November 03, 2012, 09:12 pm
Quote
I'm not 100% sure, but I think if you ask them straight out if they are a cop, they have to tell you.
Otherwise, it is entrapment. You might want to look that up, but I think that is how it works where I am from.

i know its already been said but i just want to say it again...

OMFG ARE YOU SERIOUS?!!!!!

Cops are allowed to lie.
Title: Re: Undercover cop concerns, opinions?
Post by: jsmithy123 on November 03, 2012, 09:56 pm
You never saw that episode of breaking bad where the undercover cop tells the guy it is illegal for a cop to lie? then he asks ok are you a cop, the cop says no, does the buy, and all the fake trucks rush in for the bust. lol.
Title: Re: Undercover cop concerns, opinions?
Post by: username5055 on November 03, 2012, 10:36 pm
I'm not 100% sure, but I think if you ask them straight out if they are a cop, they have to tell you.
Otherwise, it is entrapment. You might want to look that up, but I think that is how it works where I am from.

Always go with your gut instinct in these circumstances; if you feel something isn't right, get the fuck out of there.

Best of luck,

Psy

Malarkey lol, they dont have to tell anyone no matter what they're asked. BUT they absolutely cannot give drugs out. They can have their controlled buys and sells and all that, but they CANNOT let the drugs get back out into the environment. The drugs are not to escape! They must bring back exactly what they left with. SO you can use your imagination with this. Find a polite way of saying, "sell me a little bit of drugs (a 1/2 gram or something), and I will come back for more."

My lawyer told me this, too. They can do pretty much anything, but they cannot release drugs that are not coming back to the LE system such as in a bust.

Alright, I think I can do that, anything under a few grams is like barely an arrest so I could live with that.... And thats 100% legit? He cant sell me the gram and wait to bust me when I come back to buy the pound?

Tho I should get a lawyer as well. How did you go about doing that? I feel that If I walk into a criminal attorneys office and just say "Im running a drug cartel and need legal advice to keep off the radar" they'll refuse me as a client lol.

And I already knew about the asking them if theyre a cop lol, I had a friend who was stupid enough to believe that, I wont be seeing him again for another 4-6 years :(
Title: Re: Undercover cop concerns, opinions?
Post by: Stormtrooper420 on November 03, 2012, 10:56 pm
Quote
I'm not 100% sure, but I think if you ask them straight out if they are a cop, they have to tell you.
Otherwise, it is entrapment. You might want to look that up, but I think that is how it works where I am from.

i know its already been said but i just want to say it again...

OMFG ARE YOU SERIOUS?!!!!!

Cops are allowed to lie.

They are required to tell you badge number if you ask, but cops will always get away with committing illegal acts

Best Regards,
Stormtrooper
Title: Re: Undercover cop concerns, opinions?
Post by: fredflintstone on November 03, 2012, 11:23 pm
Undercover cops can commit crimes, do drugs, assault people ... anything they want in furtherance of the investigation. Read up on cases they built against the Hells Angels and other criminal organizations. They become criminals, to catch criminals.

Asking them to take bong hits wont do shit.
Asking them if they are a cop wont do shit.
Title: Re: Undercover cop concerns, opinions?
Post by: username5055 on November 04, 2012, 01:29 am
Undercover cops can commit crimes, do drugs, assault people ... anything they want in furtherance of the investigation. Read up on cases they built against the Hells Angels and other criminal organizations. They become criminals, to catch criminals.

Asking them to take bong hits wont do shit.
Asking them if they are a cop wont do shit.

Well, for a guy just buying a lb a week, would they really make that many exceptions to bust me? And so they are allowed to sell drugs? So buying a gram wont nec make them spring on me, they could wait till I come back for a lb?

Its not like im running something like the Hells Angels. Alls I do is sell pot and molly lol. Its not like I've ever killed anyone or even jumped somebody lol. Just dealed. And in my state even up to a lb if they caught me i wouldnt do that much time, even with distribution charges. Would they really allow a cop to forgo all the rules just for me? Again, not some huge, big time guy (im like small-to-medium time)
Title: Re: Undercover cop concerns, opinions?
Post by: brutusk on November 04, 2012, 03:28 am
If you want a lawyer, the best thing to do is find a good criminal lawyer that specializes in drug stuff and make friends with him/her. After you have spent some time together you can start picking their brain with hypothetical questions, or pay for an hour of their time and go in with a list of questions you want answered. Be aware that casual conversation isn't considered real legal advice, but it is a good way to get the answers to specific questions so you have an idea where your activities stand legally, without relying on rumor and conjecture. I wouldn't show up in the office and start confessing, but if you have a list of questions about illegal activities you really don't need to confess, lol.

The way I did it is one married into the family, lol, so when we're smoking a j and shooting the shit I pick his brain. His official word is ALWAYS "that would be a bad idea," followed with answers to my questions. He does not know what I do, though he does suspect I move product somehow. We don't discuss that. I learn a damn ton of stuff simply from listening to him tell stories and asking follow up questions. He gets more people off than not, and he is not cheap.
Title: Re: Undercover cop concerns, opinions?
Post by: psychedelicmind on November 04, 2012, 09:27 am
Humble apologies for the misinformation on my part guys...and thanks for enlightening me somewhat!

Title: Re: Undercover cop concerns, opinions?
Post by: fuckoffehbuddy on November 04, 2012, 01:08 pm
yeah my opinon fuck them cops
Title: Re: Undercover cop concerns, opinions?
Post by: username5055 on November 04, 2012, 01:34 pm
yeah my opinon fuck them cops

Couldn't have said it better myself :P

If you want a lawyer, the best thing to do is find a good criminal lawyer that specializes in drug stuff and make friends with him/her. After you have spent some time together you can start picking their brain with hypothetical questions, or pay for an hour of their time and go in with a list of questions you want answered. Be aware that casual conversation isn't considered real legal advice, but it is a good way to get the answers to specific questions so you have an idea where your activities stand legally, without relying on rumor and conjecture. I wouldn't show up in the office and start confessing, but if you have a list of questions about illegal activities you really don't need to confess, lol.

The way I did it is one married into the family, lol, so when we're smoking a j and shooting the shit I pick his brain. His official word is ALWAYS "that would be a bad idea," followed with answers to my questions. He does not know what I do, though he does suspect I move product somehow. We don't discuss that. I learn a damn ton of stuff simply from listening to him tell stories and asking follow up questions. He gets more people off than not, and he is not cheap.

Well I have no problem paying a lawyer if that means I'm further in the clear, so I'll just do that. I suppose it would also be good to have a lawyer picked out if a worst-case-scenario pops up. I don't think I'd be able to befriend any of the lawyers around here, but money always works just as well
Title: Re: Undercover cop concerns, opinions?
Post by: CoolGrey on November 04, 2012, 02:58 pm
Undercover cops do not have to reveal that they are a cop, not even if you ask them 3 times, or ask them for their badge number or whatever.

However, they cannot distribute drugs into society. So a seller that delivers product, cannot possibly be an undercover cop.
Title: Re: Undercover cop concerns, opinions?
Post by: Phox on November 04, 2012, 03:07 pm
Undercover cops do not have to reveal that they are a cop, not even if you ask them 3 times, or ask them for their badge number or whatever.

However, they cannot distribute drugs into society. So a seller that delivers product, cannot possibly be an undercover cop.

Seconded.

Just want to also add in that you shouldn't underestimate LEO (not caring for small amounts of contraband). They do care.
A friend of mine was set up for an Oz of MJ.
Title: Re: Undercover cop concerns, opinions?
Post by: sWEED on November 04, 2012, 03:41 pm
Has anyone herd of fast and the furious. LEO sold guns and let them out on the market. NO one got in trouble. So based on that alone i guess they can sell drugs. maybe they should not but it is still possible. check this guy out. any facebook or twitter. pay a buddy to follow him home. does he drive. who owns the car? Bong hit works a little i think. plus buy the gram then go to the bathroom and flush it. something happens you can say you handed it off to a buddy through the window. Now he just released drugs on the street. or so he thinks. with that and a bong hit. go for it. just clean house first. and have a lawyer on call if you can. best move by far.
Title: Re: Undercover cop concerns, opinions?
Post by: CoolGrey on November 04, 2012, 04:30 pm
Has anyone herd of fast and the furious. LEO sold guns and let them out on the market. NO one got in trouble. So based on that alone i guess they can sell drugs. maybe they should not but it is still possible.
LEO didn't sell the guns, they allowed legal dealers to sell them to people of whom they knew, would smuggle the weapons across the border to Mexican drug lords. They were hoping to bust some high ranked cartel guys that way. I don't know if anybody got in trouble, but it was a huge scandal.

Apparently, they can sit back and watch other people commit crimes, waiting for the right moment to strike, but they cannot sell drugs themselves and then bust the buyers for possession.
Title: Re: Undercover cop concerns, opinions?
Post by: username5055 on November 05, 2012, 01:54 am
Has anyone herd of fast and the furious. LEO sold guns and let them out on the market. NO one got in trouble. So based on that alone i guess they can sell drugs. maybe they should not but it is still possible.
LEO didn't sell the guns, they allowed legal dealers to sell them to people of whom they knew, would smuggle the weapons across the border to Mexican drug lords. They were hoping to bust some high ranked cartel guys that way. I don't know if anybody got in trouble, but it was a huge scandal.

Apparently, they can sit back and watch other people commit crimes, waiting for the right moment to strike, but they cannot sell drugs themselves and then bust the buyers for possession.

So In a worst case scenario this guy could be an informant and LEO could be waiting for him to make the deal and bust me? I suppose just picking the right place would avoid cops being able to view the deal/catch whoevers picking up. Hmmm
Title: Re: Undercover cop concerns, opinions?
Post by: kitkat82 on November 05, 2012, 06:44 am
Haven't you seen "The Departed" or "Donnie Broscoe" ?

The undercover cops can and will do anything to make their case.  The criminal informants can also do whatever they like to gather info.
Title: Re: Undercover cop concerns, opinions?
Post by: CarnCarby on November 05, 2012, 09:10 am
Guys, television and movies probably are not the best place to be seeking legal advice. That's like wanting to be some kung-fu master so you watch a lot of Jackie Chan movies.
Title: Re: Undercover cop concerns, opinions?
Post by: CoolGrey on November 05, 2012, 10:53 am
So In a worst case scenario this guy could be an informant and LEO could be waiting for him to make the deal and bust me? I suppose just picking the right place would avoid cops being able to view the deal/catch whoevers picking up.
Theoretically this is possible. I don't know if cops would allow a drug dealer to operate, in order to bust some buyers. It doesn't seem likely to me. If a seller gets busted, it's possible that cops go after all the buyers of whom he has information, but I don't think they'll make him an informant and let him continue selling. I think they'd only do that if that way, they can catch a "bigger fish" than the dealer.

Being smart about your pickup and stash locations is always recommended.
Title: Re: Undercover cop concerns, opinions?
Post by: marcopolio on November 05, 2012, 11:02 am

Undercover cops do not have to reveal that they are a cop, not even if you ask them 3 times, or ask them for their badge number or whatever.

However, they cannot distribute drugs into society. So a seller that delivers product, cannot possibly be an undercover cop.

I would second this as cops can absolutely lie, cheat, steal, do/buy drugs in an undercover investigation and most other times. I'm not sure how those rumors get started but it seems rather naive, and more importantly not based on a single fact.

As for the fast and the furious which someone mentioned, most of the "facts" i see are republican talking points trying to pin a scandal on Obama when nothing of the sort happened. Not that i'd like to defend the cops in any way but they did nothing illegal and in fact technically neither did the people buying guns. Reselling guns is legal and unless they can prove you intend to sell them to a criminal organization before you buy it there is nothing they can do. In fact if you read the fortune article I posted below you'll see that they had stopped some people who they were pretty certain were selling weapons to the mexican cartel and had bought weapons that ended up in crime scenes/murders in mexico but the courts defended these people's second amendment rights. "Without Probable Cause and concurrence from the USAO [U.S. Attorney's Office] it is highway robbery if we take someone's property." My two favorite stories were the unemployed man who bought a 10k 50cal sniper rifle and the homeless man who bought 476 guns for $300k while on food-stamps. Neither of which could be stopped becuase they didn't do anything illegal, they couldn't even cut off the guys foodstamps knowing he spent at least 1/3 of a million dollars on weapons.
Clearnet
http://features.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2012/06/27/fast-and-furious-truth/
Title: Re: Undercover cop concerns, opinions?
Post by: darthvaderstar on November 06, 2012, 02:00 am
anyone watch breaking bad?
Title: Re: Undercover cop concerns, opinions?
Post by: username5055 on November 06, 2012, 02:33 am
you sound like an inexperienced kid.

It's ok - we were all there once.

You're selling weed, it's really not a big deal. You just need to KNOW who you're dealing with.

The questions you're asking are all answered by basic street smarts.

Don't watch out for undercovers.. watch out for informants and snitches. They (ucs) do not operate on your level or with your product very often if at all.

I've seen plenty of friends go to jail with just "basic street smarts" :P Only reason Im still around is cuz I've been hella cautious and ask seemingly obvious questions like this thread to get a broader view on prevention methods. I personally don't really have to worry too much about informants as my inner circle is only myself and two others (not to say that I don't know that's a possibility, anyone can turn on you). I wont even be the one picking up from this guy or dealing with him; i just wanted to make sure that my group was safe. But Ill stick with the buying only a gram to start and then come back for the lb. Thanks y'all :)
Title: Re: Undercover cop concerns, opinions?
Post by: fredflintstone on November 06, 2012, 02:36 am
All you need to know ... is if you are a big enough player the cops can do literally ANYTHING to capture you.

They will go right to the edge of the law and then what they cant do, they will have CI's do.

You need to ask yourself if your that important ... if you are just keep in mind the police dont often get beat and they dont stop.
Title: Re: Undercover cop concerns, opinions?
Post by: CoolGrey on November 06, 2012, 09:16 am
All you need to know ... is if you are a big enough player the cops can do literally ANYTHING to capture you.
Agreed. I plan to always remain unimportant. All the security in the world is great, but if they just can't be bothered to catch you, that's better.