Silk Road forums
Discussion => Drug safety => Topic started by: mochill on July 26, 2012, 02:43 am
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Hello reader,
TL;DR: Girlfriend melts down on weed due to traumatic past experience. Boyfriend wants to help her using MDMA therapy. Advice needed.
I know that asking for advice in a forum isn't exactly the best way to go about treating any sort of disorder or psychological issue. I should certainly seek professional advice from a licensed therapist or medical person to get something treated. However, my country isn't all that great with psychological healthcare and frankly my trust in Western medicine is kind of low. In any case, here is the issue:
Problem:
My girlfriend has a weak knee. She dislocated it when she was young and ever since then her knee has been at a risk of dislocating again. The problem with this is that she sometimes goes into meltdown about it, freaking out and just being scared out of her life remembering the experience. This sounds like PTSD, doesn't it? So far, the meltdowns have occurred when we smoked some MJ. One thing of note is that she has smoked for 3+ years without any issue, but recently one of her co-workers was trying to be 'funny' and kept badgering her about a story of some runner who broke his leg running (at the knee). I think this stupid story has wedged itself into her subconscious, coming out during times when she has less control over her mind (on weed) and just making her go into meltdown. She cannot function at all and frequently cries during these episodes (has happened 3 times so far, all on weed).
We are both experienced MJ users and have experience with E as well.
Solutions:
One method is of course to stop smoking. I think this is nonsense, because I feel that this is something that can be faced and dealt with. It's not the weed that is the problem, it's the trauma.
The second method that I am keen on trying is to use MDMA as a door-opener to her experience. My girlfriend does not want to see a therapist (doesn't want to be labeled a crazy person), and I think I'd like to try this remedy first. I've read that therapists in the past have had success with patients by using MDMA as a way to keep patients calm and accepting of the feelings they have.
Question/Discussion:
Does anyone have a good idea on how I can 'become' the therapist? What questions should I ask? How do I lead her? How do therapists normally get a person to open up to their feelings? I understand that the MDMA will do alot of the talking, and that she may or may not achieve a breakthrough, but I'm a little desperate.
I think the starting dosage will be 125-150mg, with a booster if she is accepting of the session. Does anyone have any advice for in case she has a meltdown while ON MDMA? A frightening thought and hopefully a low chance of happening.
Thanks SR!
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You can download the training manual MAPS uses for MDMA therapy for PTSD which should answer all your questions. The PDF file can be found at: http://www.maps.org/research/mdma/Manual_MDMAPTSD_30Nov11.pdf. Be forewarned, it's extremely technical though.
If you're wondering what MAPS is, it stands for the 'Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies'. They are legally allowed to produce and conduct therapy sessions with MDMA for medical research. They have been studying the effects of MDMA for PTSD for years now and have high success rates too.
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Thanks! I will definitely take a good look at the manual. A cursory glance at the table of contents shows that it will be very helpful - if not in the therapy itself, then in advice and other tips and tricks.
In the meantime, I'd appreciate any other opinions/advice to the problem.
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I can't offer any advice beyond making sure she has the proper mindset, setting and quality MDMA (shouldn't be a problem ;-)). Be a good listener, try not to judge, comfort her as she reveals some buried feelings.
Let us know how this goes. Very interesting to see this topic and I wish you luck and her some healing.
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A therapeutic MDMA session may create some positive new connections in her thought process, especially if variables such as physical setting and mindset are optimized. However, she must be aware that this substance will temporarily destabilize her receptors and brain chemical levels, possibly leaving her in a much worse mental state than before.
My personal opinion is that she should stop smoking weed indefinitely, since there seems to be a direct connection between her emotional outbursts and cannabis consumption. Also, before you try a vigilante therapeutic session with MDMA, have her see a doctor and/or psychologist to get a second and/or third opinion on the matter. They will probably prescribe her with an antidepressant or benzo to keep her under control. Do not underestimate the power of these medicines. I was on antidepressants for a few years and they helped me tremendously.
The human mind can be incredibly fragile when an individual is under any amount of emotional stress. I would definitely wait until she becomes stable before even considering giving her something as strong as MDMA. You sound like a very caring guy who is willing to go any length to help his girlfriend. Start with the small legal stuff, and if all else fails, go for the home run.
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Hey mate,
I wish you luck with all this.
I will say one thing though, and I mean it in the least critical way possible - you're not a therapist. If administering therapy was as easy as reading an internet guide, people wouldn't go through years of schooling to become therapists. I'm not saying that you shouldn't do this, I'm actually quite curious to hear the results, but that is something to be mindful of.
Another option may be to treat it more casually than as a therapy session. I would keep the dosage around 120mg and just sort of bring the issue up when you're both rolling. If you want to be under the influence as well but still be relatively in control, maybe take an 80-100mg dose? You could take it together, and instead of the whole session being focused on dealing with this issue just casually discuss it during your time rolling (with her prior consent, of course).
I don't know if you have any 2c-b handy, but Shulgin was a huge fan of post MDMA, theraputic administration of 2c-b. I don't remember the exact quote, but he said it was incredible for integrating the MDMA experience into normal life.
Granted, I'm not a therapist, so take my advice with a grain of salt.
But best wishes to you and your beau! Let us all know how it goes. Psychotropic therapy has a special place in my heart, so I'm curious :)
S
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Another vote for her kicking the weed, certainly for the course of any MDMA related treatment.
Also check interactions with other drugs or medications she may be on. You don't want to be buggering around with MAOI's etc.
One thing I do not vote for is the use of SSRI's for antidepressants. Yes, they do have their fans. I'm not one of them, unless there is an actual chemical imbalance that is the underlying cause of a chronic depression.
Find yourself an underground therapist if you are really serious about sorting it. A perceptive counselor or coach with psychedelic skills is a force to be reckoned with. The same sort of people who will do Ibogaine therapy will be the type of individuals you need. Can be VERY expensive though.
Lack of readily accessible MDMA therapy is the reason pharma companies have made tonnes of cash with Paxil, Citalopram, Prozac etc... Oh, that their propensity to ply doctors with freebies that are definitely not marketing or advertising incentives. No, not at all...
Thinking about GSK getting a slapping from various agencies in the news... Now they are plastering adverts on the TV, promoting themselves as the Olympics champion of "Anti Doping Science".
Scumbags.
/rant-over
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TL;DR: Everyone is awesome, and all advice/opinions are welcome.
Yes, I know I am not a therapist and therefore a little aware of my limitations. I was actually going to do what stolea mentioned - casually introducing the topic to feel the waters on her trauma, see if she's willing to even think about it first. If she can think about it without any fear, I am pretty confident she will - on her own volition - continue exploring the feelings that she has with her knee injury. I will definitely try not to be pushy or force her to dive deep into her fear. She's a bit of a control freak so I'm sure that wouldn't turn out too good.
I think the last resort we have would be for her to stop smoking indefinitely, yes. It's just that she's normal sometimes, and she just meltsdown once in awhile for no apparent reason. I'd like to fix it somehow, or at least find out what sets her off so that I can prepare countermeasures or something.
She's not on any kind of drug at all; she has an even lower opinion of Western medicine than me! Even going so far as to prescribe natural herbal teas/drinks for flu, colds, and other non-threatening but debilitating sicknesses. This is why going to a therapist would be my 2nd last option, as well as going with benzos and whatnot.
Would you think getting low doses of Xanax (0.5-1mg) would be a decent idea for those times she flips out?
In terms of drugs that I have available to me, I've gotten 200mg speakers from ST recently, and have not tried them out. Was thinking to split those sexy beans between us (half each) and see where that goes. I have heard only good things about them and will try it out carefully. I also have 250mg of 2cb from mahakala that has not arrived yet (soon!). Would 2CB be a better therapeutic option, or would sticking with MDMA be better? I read that MDMA can widen the 'window' of calm a person has, where the outside of the window is when the meltdown occurs. Does 2CB open the window as wide, or do the hallucinogenic effects narrow it somewhat? 2CB is fairly easy to control, so perhaps for her that could be a better choice. Let me know!
There are no underground therapists that I know of in this country. It's a lot more than a fine or a slap on the wrist for people who use drugs around here, let alone a practitioner who dabbles in illicit drugs. Still, it's a good option to consider if all else fails.
This forum has been a great help in finding out what I can do! Please continue letting me know your opinions/advice on this matter. The process will likely take a long time (a month or more) to really work, so I'm sure there will be plenty of information to glean from this thread. I'll update this thread whenever I get some results - hopefully good. If it works, then this story goes straight to Erowid as a sample of how MDMA (or 2CB) can help cure past physical trauma. One can only hope for the best, and prepare even better :)
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honestly, I think diazepam (valium) is the best for a trip killer but xanax can work.
As for the 2c-b you might want to hold off on that. Might want to see what happens with the 1 drug first.
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Hey mate,
If I were you (and maybe this is what you meant, and I just misread it), I would talk to her about doing this before actually doing it. It seems like it could compromise her trust in you and the session itself if you just sort of sprung it on her after giving her MDMA.
On the topic of 2c-b in addition to MDMA:
"This was from the comments of a psychologist who will, without doubt, use psychedelics again in the future, as a probe into the unknown. Many of the reports that have come in over the years have mentioned the combination of MDMA and 2C-B. The most successful reports have followed a program in which the two drugs are not used at the same time, nor even too closely spaced. It appears that the optimum time for the 2C-B is at, or just before, the final baseline recovery of the MDMA. It is as if the mental andemotional discoveries can be mobilized, and something done about them. This combination has several enthusiastic advocates in the psychotherapy world, and should be the basis of careful research when these materials become legal, and accepted by the medical community."
-PiHKAL
I find that 2c-b is an amazing "piggyback" to MDMA. Dose maybe 18-22mg 4-5hrs after ingesting the MDMA. It really does help integrating the experience (and it's a whole lot of fun ;)). It also adds a really nice erotic component that you two might enjoy (I usually have problems getting it up/keeping it up when I'm rolling but the additional 2c-b on the comedown makes for the most erotic experiences, hands down).
Good luck brother.
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really excellent idea... mdma is actually perfect for what you want. just do it alone with her and she will most likely open up naturally. after all, mdma does open the doors of communication.
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Basics..
6-8 MDMA sessions a year, all sessions should be focused on herself alone, she would take MDMA and think about the things that make her anxious or the problems in her life... you get the picture. If you want to be there with her make yourself productive and write down the things she says, deciphering the problem shouldn't be too terrible if you need help just message me.