Silk Road forums
Discussion => Drug safety => Topic started by: gaia on August 07, 2012, 03:14 pm
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OK, my name is Gaia, and I'm a depressive.
Right, that's out in the open then.
I am going through a shit time at the moment, and having resisted for months, I've finally given in and just started a course of 20mg Citalopram SSRI. And shit, do I feel odd right now! I have always been a recreational drug user, and I accept that may even be a contributing factor for my depression - sure. Be that as it may, I can't change that now. So given that I enjoy altered states of mind, what can I take that won't interact badly with SSRI's? I know I have to avoid MDMA (which I will find tough), but what about occasional lines of coke say? Or the 2c family etc? Or even benzos?
I smoke weed most nights for relaxation and pain relief, but apart from that, I'm no big user of anything. But now and again I just need to let loose. Hopefully in some ways I still can....
Thanks for any advice.
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Yo how's it going.
Firstly I've been on citalopram before and it pretty much cleared up all my negative emotions etc. it will feel strange for a while but ime it helped me a lot.
The only thing I had a problem with was MDMA- just didn't work, 2ce was fine so I expect the 2c family is fair game, coke was also all good. A lot of the time my depressive feelings on the comedowns became fairly minimal.
Don't know about weed as I'm an occasional smoker.
Well done for taking the plunge btw.
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Thanks man. It's been building for a couple of years since my Dad died to be honest. That kinda stirred up a whole load of crap at the bottom of my mental pond! It's been a rough ride, and I had no choice really. When you start searching euthanasia forums for the easiest exit door, you know you're in trouble.
+k for your kind words my friend.
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In my experience, the only drug interference I've had with SSRIs was with MDMA, and as stated above, it simply has no effect. Took 500mg once while on SSRI, felt nothing whatsoever. Speed works fine though.
You might need the pills atm to give your emotions a break, so you can figure out how to handle them meanwhile. But beware of SSRIs, taking them for longer periods of time might alter your personality in a slow and subtle way that you'll probably not notice yourself. If you keep having weird sensations, thoughts or feelings, talk to your doctor or psychiatrist, there are other kind of antidepressants. I'm not on SSRIs anymore, because I felt that it made me weird (my sense of humour got distorted, thoughts I knew should make me sad felt disturbingly pleasurable, etc.)
Anyway, good luck!
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I recently stopped taking es-citapolpram 10mg once daily (Lexapro, Cipralex), after taking it for almost 3 years. On its own, it made me feel too comfortable with the way things were, and took my motivation away. I then asked to add 300mg/day of burpropion (Wellbutrin), and a month after that, I felt completely normal. The NDRI effects of the bupropion negate the sexual side effects of SSRIs as well as the lack of motivation that is sometimes present with SSRI use (esp. in larger doses).
That being said, I have mixed SSRIs with pretty much everything, and as stated above, the main criticism is it's effect on MDMA. Subsequently taking these two drugs is commmonly reported to significantly reduce the MDMA's effects, or negate them all together. For me however, I took M 12-24 hours after my last 10mg es-citalopram dose, and felt a typical roll as if I was not on the SSRI to begin with (and it sure as hell was still in my system). Basically it wouldnt be physically harmful to try this, but would be a monetary risk in case you do anything.
Now the remarkable thing with SSRIs and MDMA is that I decided one time to take an SSRI dose on an M comedown, and that comedown prevented the hangover depression I would often experience the next day without the SSRI taken on the come down.
Finally, I would jsut like to state that you are taking an SSRI for depression, and MDMA is known to exacerbate the effects of depression, sometimes for up to a week after a dose. Of course it's your choice to take this route, as it was mine. Just try to avoid any dependence or frequent use of any substance while being treated for depression. MDMA once a week is likely frequent enough use of that particular compound to cause rebound depression when you're not high. So please think everything thru and set limits before delving into recreational drugs while depressed.
Best of luck! =D
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Thanks man. It's been building for a couple of years since my Dad died to be honest. That kinda stirred up a whole load of crap at the bottom of my mental pond! It's been a rough ride, and I had no choice really. When you start searching euthanasia forums for the easiest exit door, you know you're in trouble.
+k for your kind words my friend.
No probs man, +k to you for taking the first step.
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Sorry guys, I've not had time to thank you for your advice. You've all cleared that up nicely for me. Shame about the need to avoid of my go to feel good drug MDMA. I guess a few lines of coke and some 2c's it is for me. 2cb was always a close second to MDMA anyway. As well as - actually. They make a nice combination :) And if truth be told, I've kinda lost the MD magic now anyway.
One thing that puzzles me about SSRI's is the reaction that you speak of in the early stages of starting a course. I would love to understand why your negative symptoms can become worse for a while as is well known. How can a rise in serotonin levels give a negative effect, but then improve and stabilize after a few weeks? Anyone understand this process?
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Sorry guys, I've not had time to thank you for your advice. You've all cleared that up nicely for me. Shame about the need to avoid of my go to feel good drug MDMA. I guess a few lines of coke and some 2c's it is for me. 2cb was always a close second to MDMA anyway. As well as - actually. They make a nice combination :) And if truth be told, I've kinda lost the MD magic now anyway.
One thing that puzzles me about SSRI's is the reaction that you speak of in the early stages of starting a course. I would love to understand why your negative symptoms can become worse for a while as is well known. How can a rise in serotonin levels give a negative effect, but then improve and stabilize after a few weeks? Anyone understand this process?
I'm not too sure why. For me it didn't happen. My depression remained at pretty much the same level. The majority of My depression manifested as anger and violence rather than suicidal thoughts so that may be why I didn't notice any increase. I know that it takes a certain amount of time for the SSRI's to build up and to take effect on the brain.
I don't think it's a rule of thumb that ur symptoms will get worse. It was strange for me, I woke up about 3 weeks after starting them and just felt "wow I don't feel like complete shit today"-
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in my own experiences on zoloft (100 mg daily) for year, only MDMA was severely effected, as has been said. no noticeable effect on benzos, coke, or other psyches
i felt it somewhat "dulled" the euphoria of opiates, as though the pleasure wasn't as sharp. could just have been in my head.
its awful effects on my sex life ultimately lead me to cut it out
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I have suffered depression for years on and off, now I take Fluoxetine- much prefer it to Citalopram- If I missed a dose or two of Citalopram, I would have very disurbing dreams at night, also Fluoxetine does not cause the same sexual disfunction- desire and ability to come- as Citalopram did with me! After finding SR, I did go a bit mad, buying methamphetamine ( not available in UK)- not in Scotland, anyway, also I got quite a bit of coke. I had stopped taking Fluoxetine for a good few months, but have had to go back on it- I do have some ongoing issues in my life that have had an impact on the depression, but I am sure that my sudden glut of drug use with coke and methamphetamine, oh, and MDMA have exasperated it as well, to a greater extent- I would advice against anything that has a comedown! Benzo's seem OK, but I tend to get them for medicinal purposes rather than recreational. Heroin is fine, but I would strongly advise you to avoid it, as your condition makes you extremely vulnerable to addiction- I have a habit, and have done for a long time, although for a good few years, I have broken it and just take methadone 50mg a day. I can take H occasionally for pleasure, but am one of few that can- it is so easy to slip back- you have to have a very strong will power and self control and discipline to keep it to once every couple of weeks after having had a serious addiction to it.
All the best for the future- remember, it does take a couple of months (at least 6 weeks) for any SSRI to start to make a difference. I find weed helps me also, but it ends up taking over, so I like to give it a rest- now, I am trying to keep my weed use to a once weekly- so I can look forward to it- it's great on here, as I can just get a gram of the best, tan it (meaning- really go for it!) over the day till it's finished, where as before, I would ration myself to make it last!
P.S. "When you start searching euthanasia forums for the easiest exit door, you know you're in trouble." Been there- I really feel for you- it is horrible when you get to that stage. I have never been into the counseling thing, but when I got to that stage, I realized, there are times when you have to ask for help- just take it day by day and think about the effect your death would have on remaining family or friends- that's one thing that pulled me back from the precipice. Feel free to message me if you need to talk to someone you are never going to have to come across face to face (I feel better personally, talking to a stranger about personal things). Actually, I would ignore that, thinking about it, when you are depressed and vulnerable, someone unscrupulous, or Law Enforcement could say to message them, like I did, and try to get personal info in order to I.D. you- bad idea!!
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Feel free to message me if you need to talk to someone you are never going to have to come across face to face (I feel better personally, talking to a stranger about personal things). Actually, I would ignore that, thinking about it, when you are depressed and vulnerable, someone unscrupulous, or Law Enforcement could say to message them, like I did, and try to get personal info in order to I.D. you- bad idea!!
Thanks man. And good point about police searching for ways inside. I couldn't give a toss about them really. They wouldn't get much from me. A few lines worth of coke and a little MDMA which is going to be a gift for some lucky person anyway now it seems :) And a bit of weed. Bigger fish out there I guess. But I appreciate your warning.
+k's all round really. Thanks for the support.
I must admit, yesterday (5th day on SSRI's) was shit. Really shit. I found myself driving along coming towards a sharp corner. I just put my foot down and for a moment, I though I was actually going to do it. I must have been testing myself, but I do not like this other person that seems to be inside me at the moment. The rest of the day, I avoided driving and was just zoned out - in a dream world. Today is better, but I am still not me. So yeah, it's waiting for them to kick in that is a pain. I've struggled with depression on and off throughout my life, but I've never been to this place. I've been sinking deeper, and with increasing frequency for this last 2 years, like a stone skimming across the water about to go under. And with little outside help offered other than drugs. But then two weeks ago, I woke up as another person, and can't find my way back, so I gave and reluctantly started the Citalopram . That's how it feels.
Shit, I'm off on a ramble now. Sorry....
But thanks :)
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I know this was specifically about SSRIs but I'm just going to throw this tidbit out there for those who don't know:
If you are taking Tramadol for legit pain, or for whatever reason enjoy Tramadol....it will also put a damper on your rolls! I didn't know this at first....I did not realize it had SNRI properties as well as giving its own little release of serotonin....my doc prescribed them because I requested to not get hooked on opiates again...i had gone through hell, didn't want to end up there again because of an injury ...The fucking doctor didn't think that it was habit forming or related to opiates in any way..prior to i think 08 or 09 when the FDA made pharm. companies stress its potential for addiction ....But yeah it will disappoint you ....in my case so much so that I went to sleep after waiting for an hour after insufflation and woke up 8 hours later disappointed and angry. I accused someone of selling fake rolls (before I ever had my first pure mdma experience) he had a big batch of Blue Rolexes and so I thought he was selling fake shit, so I called him up and complained......he swears up and down that he rolled hard, I tell him I'm coming by when he gets home and I wanted him to roll with me, pills from the same bag, I would increase my dose to counteract whatever tolerance would've been there had the dose been real and i just....i dunno didn't take enough?
He was rolling hard, huge pupils, talking my fucking ear off....and I just wanted to cry. That's when I came home and did my own research on the meds and realized I was taking a medicine that was basically pushed on me as "Way less habit forming than opiate based pain meds"
Is actually an antidepressant plus a weak selective opioid agonist..and gives that little flood of serotonin.....and after being on it for a year to manage pain....I decided to try to quit the tramadol so that I could at least enjoy one of those rolls with my then girlfriend......fuck, that shit has the 2nd worst withdrawal I've ever experienced......#1 Methadone.....ugh #2 Tramadol.......sneezing/yawning every 2 minutes for days, restless everything....not just legs...but arms.....shoulderjoints (dont ask how the fuck but i had to keep moving them).....everything wanted to move....no sleep for weeks, no energy, suicidal thoughts.....the lowest of low.....crying for no fucking reason...not just talking about the usual watery eyes....but bawling and sobbing....I'm really laid back, I can get emotional over somethings sure....but this was pathetic...
The only saving grace it had was the abdominal symptoms were not as bad as the good opiates.
So yeah, after.....oh...a few months, I finally felt well enough to take the rolls, and had one hell of a good evening.....
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So given that I enjoy altered states of mind, what can I take that won't interact badly with SSRI's? I know I have to avoid MDMA (which I will find tough), but what about occasional lines of coke say? Or the 2c family etc? Or even benzos?
SSRIs mess with the reuptake of Serotonin (there are 3 main neurotransmitters: Serotonin, Noradrenalin or Norepinephrine and Dopamine. Basically the SSRI takes over the flow of Serotonin in your brain. So most stuff that interacts heavily with the Serotonin-Receptors just won't work (except LSD, have a theory on that...). MDMA is basically the same as a tricyclic antidepressant which works mostly on the Serotonin-Receptors, therefore most of the effects will be inhibited.
With that knowledge, you can look up your drug on wikipedia or erowid and check what Receptors it affects. Often it will be all three, but one or two will be affected much more then the third. The less Serotonin it influences, the better it will work. Coke, Speed for example: mostly Dopamine and maybe Noradrenaline -> should work just fine.
If in doubt, google your particular SSRI with the drug, 98% of the time someone has already tried it.
hth
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(except LSD, have a theory on that...).
Damnit man! Don't leave me hanging! Theories are cool.
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I took citalopram for 3 months once. Best orgasms I've ever had. ;D
If you're on an SSRI, why would you need MDMA? In my experience they have a very similar effect, especially the empathy thing.