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Discussion => Philosophy, Economics and Justice => Topic started by: jay92 on October 14, 2012, 12:04 am

Title: Fascist America.
Post by: jay92 on October 14, 2012, 12:04 am
Who agrees that we with in a fascist state? If so, what are we going to do to fix it? If you don't believe we live in a fascist state,why?
Title: Re: Fascist America.
Post by: wackmanblu on October 14, 2012, 12:20 am
Ha ha! My old nemesis - Jay92!!   8)

If you're referring to the USA then no, you don't live in a fascist state.
A fascist state wouldn't have laws that prohibit arrest without cause, search and seizure without warrant and suppress the existence of a free press. Furthermore there would be no anti-hate laws, the courts would be radically changed in a very short time to stack judges of a similar mindset and you would be forced to pledge alliance to the flag every morning at school or the workplace and at every public gathering.

So no young Jay, you really don't live in a fascist state.

Now if you'll excuse me I'm going to blow a huge oil laden joint on my balcony and effectively flip the bird to my neighbors.   ;)
Title: Re: Fascist America.
Post by: jay92 on October 14, 2012, 12:26 am
Wackmanblu, please read about the NDAA and Patriot Act and then tell me if you think people can't be arrested without cause, and have their things seized without cause. The NDAA, for example, allows for you to be detained indefinitely, without you being told what the charges are against you, and without legal council.
Title: Re: Fascist America.
Post by: wackmanblu on October 14, 2012, 12:37 am
Wackmanblu, please read about the NDAA and Patriot Act and then tell me if you think people can't be arrested without cause, and have their things seized without cause. The NDAA, for example, allows for you to be detained indefinitely, without you being told what the charges are against you, and without legal council.

Those are 2 very big recent changes to law, where-abouts in each do you find this to be true? You may actually be right, but you'll have to give me exact references to what you're saying in order to convince me that the USA is a fascist state.
Title: Re: Fascist America.
Post by: jay92 on October 14, 2012, 01:05 am
Google National Defense Authorization Act. It was passed by Obama and it does exactly what my previous post states.The Patriot Act was passed by George Bush after 9/11, Clinton tried to pass it after the Oklahoma City bombing, but (and this is well documented) not enough people were killed in the Oklahoma City bombing to pass the Patriot Act. Then boom Bush gets elected and 9/11 happens, and wouldn't you know it? Enough people were killed to pass the act. The Patriot Act is rather similar to the NDAA, in that it allows the government mainly the NSA (National Security Agency) to listen in to your phone conversations, without a warrant. Amongst other things.
Title: Re: Fascist America.
Post by: wackmanblu on October 14, 2012, 01:34 am
Okay, so I goggled National Defense Authorization Act  - there's a few links to Wikipedia and Forbes and if I go way to page 10 of search results I get some wing-nut National Inquirer type links.  hmm, nothing that plainly links this Act to fascism in America.

The Patriot Act turns up better results for you in that it links to the actual act as it was written. So where then, exactly what clause are you referring to?
Title: Re: Fascist America.
Post by: jay92 on October 14, 2012, 01:42 am
You have to link it yourself by reading the literature, it won't plainly say "this is fascism" lol. As for the clauses this information is in, I do not know exactly, you'll just have to do a little research brother. I have some good books that mention the acts and the literature in them. They're honestly really good books and you could take a lot from them if you read them.
Title: Re: Fascist America.
Post by: wackmanblu on October 14, 2012, 01:54 am
You have to link it yourself by reading the literature, it won't plainly say "this is fascism" lol. As for the clauses this information is in, I do not know exactly, you'll just have to do a little research brother. I have some good books that mention the acts and the literature in them. They're honestly really good books and you could take a lot from them if you read them.

No government laws will ever say "this is Fascism" Duhhh?
I'm curious to know what part of this document you think reflect a fascist perspective.   

And to say, "well you'll just have to do more research .." to find whatever it is that your spouting about - I don't really know what that means. It tells me that neither do you. Other than some vague Internet links you haven't presented anything of value towards 'proving' that the USA is a fascist state. 

Dude, are you as stoned as me right now? I'm pretty baked on some oil and weed. You on anything?
Title: Re: Fascist America.
Post by: jay92 on October 14, 2012, 01:59 am
I told you before I HAVE BOOKS! That I'll give you the names and authors so you can read them lol. You really are stoned :D. Lucky bastard, I'm stone cold sober right now, unfortunately.
Title: Re: Fascist America.
Post by: wackmanblu on October 14, 2012, 02:10 am
Well, what books? List them and their authors here in the thread, maybe not all of them, just a few. Maybe a few of your favorites. Who would they be? 

Yeah I'm pretty baked, lovin Saturday night bro.
Title: Re: Fascist America.
Post by: redfunguy on October 14, 2012, 02:13 am
Yes, the USA is a fascist state.  Such is the case in late capitalism.  Nobody understands the extent to which the worker and oppressed are exploited more than the capitalist class and they will and are doing anything and everything to continue their lavish lifestyles at the expense of the rest of us.  Comrades in Greece are showing us how to approach the state, burn it down.
Title: Re: Fascist America.
Post by: johnwholesome on October 14, 2012, 02:18 am
You are victim to right-wing propaganda. They just love the term fascist because of the Nazi analogy. The reason it is idiotically wrong to apply the term to the US is that in a "fascist" state, government controls (aside from what they enforce unto their citizens) business and the way its done.

Everyone knows that in the US, big business controls the government, matter of fact, the US has the best government money can buy, thank you citizens united. But there goes the "fascist" analogy out of the window. A fascist state would force its economy (businesses) into their ideological confines, in the US, big business does however they please without regard for national interest. That defies the very definition of fascism.

To everyone going to "survival camp" in the mountains to train for the revolution and to learn how to horde canned goods and ammo in the basement I suggest more college - less tinfoil hats.

The US government is incredibly bad at serving the mass of its citizens proper, but in order to fix that people need to start to understand (I mean understand, not make up shit in their heads) what is broken with it and how.

Paranoia- and hate-fueled delusions contribute exactly zilch to the undesirable status quo. As a matter of fact, I personally believe that these "delusions" are part of the reason the general population doesn't get a grasp of this highly complex issue. Creating straw-men arguments (EPA THE NEW ENEMY!!!) keeps people from really thinking in favor of making up simplified made up explanations fancying their pet grievances.

So, in my opinion, all those survivalists and revolutionaries and what have you are just as much sheep as your average John Q. Taxpayer, they're only member of another herd.
Title: Re: Fascist America.
Post by: jay92 on October 14, 2012, 02:22 am
redfunguy- Finally somebody understands!!!

Wackmanblu- Liberty Defined by Ron Paul, It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong by Judge Andrew Napolitano and also The Revolution by Ron Paul.
Title: Re: Fascist America.
Post by: wackmanblu on October 14, 2012, 02:24 am
Yes, the USA is a fascist state.  Such is the case in late capitalism.  Nobody understands the extent to which the worker and oppressed are exploited more than the capitalist class and they will and are doing anything and everything to continue their lavish lifestyles at the expense of the rest of us.  Comrades in Greece are showing us how to approach the state, burn it down.

Whaaaaat? What the hell are you saying? What is "late capitalism" and workers based in N.American are among the highest paid in the world. What I hear you saying is  ... blah blah blah blah ...  I didn't get what I wanted right away ... whine whine whine ... If I can't have it then nobody else can either ... burn it down ..."

You must be 12 yrs old.
Title: Re: Fascist America.
Post by: jay92 on October 14, 2012, 02:26 am
johnwholesome- I believe you are wrong about business controlling government, it is more of a scratch my back I'll scratch yours thing. Just look at the General Motors bail out. General Motors gets to make risky decisions and know they're going to get bailed out by the government. Government wins cause now they own part of General Motors. Just one example.
Title: Re: Fascist America.
Post by: redfunguy on October 14, 2012, 02:39 am
Yes, the USA is a fascist state.  Such is the case in late capitalism.  Nobody understands the extent to which the worker and oppressed are exploited more than the capitalist class and they will and are doing anything and everything to continue their lavish lifestyles at the expense of the rest of us.  Comrades in Greece are showing us how to approach the state, burn it down.

Whaaaaat? What the hell are you saying? What is "late capitalism" and workers based in N.American are among the highest paid in the world. What I hear you saying is  ... blah blah blah blah ...  I didn't get what I wanted right away ... whine whine whine ... If I can't have it then nobody else can either ... burn it down ..."

You must be 12 yrs old.

A large hole in your logic.  First of all, just because I may be better off than another worker in another nation state does not dictate that I must be happy with my circumstances, call it pride, but I believe that I and the rest of humanity deserve the full product of what I and we produce.  Anyone who is content with handing over the surplus value of their labor to a fat fuck who didn't have to get out of bed in the morning in order to be filthy fucking rich is a weak person and a danger to us all.  Let the heads of the bourgeoisie, kings, queens, and their guard dogs all roll.  Do I still sound like a 12 year old?
Title: Re: Fascist America.
Post by: johnwholesome on October 14, 2012, 02:42 am
johnwholesome- I believe you are wrong about business controlling government, it is more of a scratch my back I'll scratch yours thing. Just look at the General Motors bail out. General Motors gets to make risky decisions and know they're going to get bailed out by the government. Government wins cause now they own part of General Motors. Just one example.

Look, let me put this on top, I am not arguing that government the way it currently is is okay, or even acceptable, it is atrocious.

My beef with the far right is mostly about "academic inaccuracies"

Fascism, by definition, has a strong nationalist component. The nationalist component is really absent in this current government of the last 50 years or so. A truly "fascist" government would not sell the nation out to China. Or even allow you to buy all their cheap shit at walmart all over the country.

If anything, then America is an extreme plutocracy, a result of lessaiz-fair capitalism. Which in turn is a result of a "more freedoms" approach over the last 30 or 40 years. But I digress. In summary, despite the fact that DEA agents raiding a house may visually remind you of something you saw about the Nazis raiding a Jewish household on the history channel, the analogies to fascism and the Nazis are fallacious at best.

What we have in the US is a whole new animal that has never been seen before in world history. The unrestrained concentration of wealth to very few individuals paired with an election process that basically favors the nominee with access to the most funds while providing "dark channels" to individuals to get their tremendous wealth to work in the democratic process. All this is very far from the definition of fascism.

Make no mistake, I am not saying that what we are facing today isn't as "extreme" or "despicable" as fascism, but it is not fascism by definition.
Title: Re: Fascist America.
Post by: jay92 on October 14, 2012, 02:43 am
Try not to get too offended bro. He calls everyone names lol.
Title: Re: Fascist America.
Post by: redfunguy on October 14, 2012, 02:44 am
Well said John.
Title: Re: Fascist America.
Post by: jay92 on October 14, 2012, 02:45 am
I actually agree with 100% johnwholesome.

Happy to see there are still some smart people, actually paying attention to history and whats going in the world.
Title: Re: Fascist America.
Post by: wackmanblu on October 14, 2012, 02:51 am
Yes, the USA is a fascist state.  Such is the case in late capitalism.  Nobody understands the extent to which the worker and oppressed are exploited more than the capitalist class and they will and are doing anything and everything to continue their lavish lifestyles at the expense of the rest of us.  Comrades in Greece are showing us how to approach the state, burn it down.

Whaaaaat? What the hell are you saying? What is "late capitalism" and workers based in N.American are among the highest paid in the world. What I hear you saying is  ... blah blah blah blah ...  I didn't get what I wanted right away ... whine whine whine ... If I can't have it then nobody else can either ... burn it down ..."

You must be 12 yrs old.

A large hole in your logic.  First of all, just because I may be better off than another worker in another nation state does not dictate that I must be happy with my circumstances, call it pride, but I believe that I and the rest of humanity deserve the full product of what I and we produce.  Anyone who is content with handing over the surplus value of their labor to a fat fuck who didn't have to get out of bed in the morning in order to be filthy fucking rich is a weak person and a danger to us all.  Let the heads of the bourgeoisie, kings, queens, and their guard dogs all roll.  Do I still sound like a 12 year old?

No now you sound like an 14 yr old communist,  ... not that there's anything wrong with that ... :P

If you want all the benefits that communism provides, I say go for it sir.

Do you understand that there will always be rich and poor, privileged and unfortunate? Fat fucks will always be with us no matter what system of order you prescribe. Anything other than some kind of order is anarchy, and we've all seen Mad Max. 
Title: Re: Fascist America.
Post by: johnwholesome on October 14, 2012, 02:52 am
I try ^^
Title: Re: Fascist America.
Post by: redfunguy on October 14, 2012, 03:01 am
"No now you sound like an 14 yr old communist,  ... not that there's anything wrong with that ... :P

If you want all the benefits that communism provides, I say go for it sir.

Do you understand that there will always be rich and poor, privileged and unfortunate? Fat fucks will always be with us no matter what system of order you prescribe. Anything other than some kind of order is anarchy, and we've all seen Mad Max.  "

Lol, fair enough.  I would like to point out that what we have here on earth is far from "order", if order insinuates safety and justice, two things that are almost non existent in this world.  Anyone who critiques proposed alternative ways or organizing society  from a standpoint that the current state of affairs are in some way working for all or most people is drastically mistaken and has not put much thought into how the world works.  I doubt you think the world is working well right now, but your comments seem to infer that you do.

Also, I am an anarchist, and a communist.  Full communism is anarchism.  If I could I would implode capitalism just to see where we end up, I have a somewhat high opinion of the average person to voluntarily organize for survival and prosperity has they always have until their border line enslavement in recent history.  Look at Afghanistan and Iraq (and most of the world) and tell me honestly that those people would not be better off by such a radical change in world power mechanisms.
Title: Re: Fascist America.
Post by: wackmanblu on October 14, 2012, 03:29 am

Lol, fair enough.  I would like to point out that what we have here on earth is far from "order", if order insinuates safety and justice, two things that are almost non existent in this world.  Anyone who critiques proposed alternative ways or organizing society  from a standpoint that the current state of affairs are in some way working for all or most people is drastically mistaken and has not put much thought into how the world works.  I doubt you think the world is working well right now, but your comments seem to infer that you do.

Also, I am an anarchist, and a communist.  Full communism is anarchism.  If I could I would implode capitalism just to see where we end up, I have a somewhat high opinion of the average person to voluntarily organize for survival and prosperity has they always have until their border line enslavement in recent history.  Look at Afghanistan and Iraq (and most of the world) and tell me honestly that those people would not be better off by such a radical change in world power mechanisms.

Listen, 'order' only means some reliable system of governance. It's up to you to choose your poison. Each system has benefits and cons. If you know something the rest of us don't please post it. I'm all for free ideas, but expect that your idea will be scrutinized and debated. Don't hang onto personal feelings about it, it's only up for discussion.
Title: Re: Fascist America.
Post by: anonymarse on October 14, 2012, 04:20 am
Yes, absolutely. The US has got all three of fascism's essential main components - nationalism, militarism, and a state/corporate complex. Most of the major changes to underlying principles of American government after the Civil War happened before World War II, when fascism was still trendy. They were made in the open, and they were never repealed.

What's being discussed here actually seems to be whether or not the US is a police state. Well, there are dozens of doors kicked in every hour for searches performed without warrants. We have Federal acts that give law enforcement the ability to WRITE THEIR OWN WARRANTS (something over which the founders went to war with George III for God's sake). The mere accusation of terrorist affiliations is grounds for indefinite detention per the PATRIOT Act and NDAA, and per the former you're not even allowed to tell anyone if you're detained on those grounds. Besides that there are so many laws that almost everyone is a felon without even knowing it. Local police departments have been militarized in large cities and are being militarized in large towns, and the police are basically King's Men who can literally get away with murder unless it's just heinous enough to embarrass the state. If this isn't a police state, I'd like to know what the criteria should be to define it as one.
Title: Re: Fascist America.
Post by: johnwholesome on October 14, 2012, 04:37 am
Yes, absolutely. The US has got all three of fascism's essential main components - nationalism, militarism, and a state/corporate complex. Most of the major changes to American government after the Civil War happened before World War II, when fascism was still trendy. They were made in the open, and they were never repealed.

-snip-

I have snipped the second part because I fully agree with it.

I might have to disagree with part of the first part though.

Militarism. Check. Most definitely.

Nationalism. I disagree. The mere overabundance of red white and blue "propaganda" materials, constant display of "patriotic" rhetoric or even the prevalent opinion of American "exceptionalism" do not constitute nationalism. Nationalism would encompass actions and policies that favor the national interest. As I have mentioned in an earlier post, recent administrations have, to the fullest extent and without restraint, instituted policies that favor the export of American jobs and wealth to foreign countries while increasing our dependence on foreign oil. Or think NAFTA. No truly nationalist nation would institute anything remotely resembling NAFTA. These are NOT AT ALL nationalist actions. Yes, we might easily be mistaken for a "nationalist" country with our penchant for flags and speeches everywhere, but in the end it is the deeds and not the words that define whether a nation is truly nationalist or not.

State/Corporate complex. Yes we have one, but its upside-down and backwards compared to that you would see in fascism. In fascism, the state imposes its ideology onto the corporate world (don't sell or lend to Jews, don't produce anything undermining the national pride, prioritize your production by what the state needs, not what the market demands). In the US, it is the other way around, mega-corporations with unimaginable financial resources force government into making policy that suits them. The "job creators" have de facto installed themselves as the new bourgeoisie, powerful enough to make or break any candidate contemplating to run for office. Neither the public nor the government decide who gets into office, the billions at the disposal of the Addelsons of the country do. That also is the complete antithesis of fascism. To put it simply, in fascism, the state would determine who gets to be the CEO of a big corporation, in this thing we have, big CEOs determine who gets to be a politician.

So, whilst I can see where one might draw parallels or even get confused, what we have has nothing to do with fascism by definition.
Title: Re: Fascist America.
Post by: wackmanblu on October 14, 2012, 04:48 am
Yes, absolutely. The US has got all three of fascism's essential main components - nationalism, militarism, and a state/corporate complex. Most of the major changes to underlying principles of American government after the Civil War happened before World War II, when fascism was still trendy. They were made in the open, and they were never repealed.

What's being discussed here actually seems to be whether or not the US is a police state. Well, there are dozens of doors kicked in every hour for searches performed without warrants. We have Federal acts that give law enforcement the ability to WRITE THEIR OWN WARRANTS (something over which the founders went to war with George III for God's sake). The mere accusation of terrorist affiliations is grounds for indefinite detention per the PATRIOT Act and NDAA, and per the former you're not even allowed to tell anyone if you're detained on those grounds. Besides that there are so many laws that almost everyone is a felon without even knowing it. Local police departments have been militarized in large cities and are being militarized in large towns, and the police are basically King's Men who can literally get away with murder unless it's just heinous enough to embarrass the state. If this isn't a police state, I'd like to know what the criteria should be to define it as one.

Well I assume by 'police estate' you mean fascism. I already provided partial definition at the beginning of this thread. If you've ever truly lived under a police state you will know what it is. I can tell you that it is not defined by what people like you think you know without any actual hardcore evidence. As always, I'm open to examples of what it is that your trying to prove. Please let them be credible though as only your mom cares about what you really feel and something you read on the Internet.   
Title: Re: Fascist America.
Post by: johnwholesome on October 14, 2012, 04:55 am
Yes, absolutely. The US has got all three of fascism's essential main components - nationalism, militarism, and a state/corporate complex. Most of the major changes to underlying principles of American government after the Civil War happened before World War II, when fascism was still trendy. They were made in the open, and they were never repealed.

What's being discussed here actually seems to be whether or not the US is a police state. Well, there are dozens of doors kicked in every hour for searches performed without warrants. We have Federal acts that give law enforcement the ability to WRITE THEIR OWN WARRANTS (something over which the founders went to war with George III for God's sake). The mere accusation of terrorist affiliations is grounds for indefinite detention per the PATRIOT Act and NDAA, and per the former you're not even allowed to tell anyone if you're detained on those grounds. Besides that there are so many laws that almost everyone is a felon without even knowing it. Local police departments have been militarized in large cities and are being militarized in large towns, and the police are basically King's Men who can literally get away with murder unless it's just heinous enough to embarrass the state. If this isn't a police state, I'd like to know what the criteria should be to define it as one.

Well I assume by 'police estate' you mean fascism. I already provided partial definition at the beginning of this thread. If you've ever truly lived under a police state you will know what it is. I can tell you that it is not defined by what people like you think you know without any actual hardcore evidence. As always, I'm open to examples of what it is that your trying to prove. Please let them be credible though as only your mom cares about what you really feel and something you read on the Internet.

I think he means something like this: CLEARNET!!! http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=police+brutality&oq=police+brutality&gs_l=youtube.3..0l10.1276.5117.0.5780.16.10.0.6.6.0.98.700.10.10.0...0.0...1ac.1.6-0o1Ar2G-I

A police state does not make a country fascist, but I agree that rampant police misconduct is one of the biggest yet hardly ever acknowledged problems. American cops are out of control and are becoming a menace to society. They are indeed "King's Men" as it was mentioned in the previous post. What they do, and do with impunity is outrageous. When it comes to violation of civil rights, we are right at the top of the list along with countries like Iran and China, food for thought.

Title: Re: Fascist America.
Post by: anonymarse on October 14, 2012, 04:55 am
Point conceded on nationalism. I would say, however, that there are certain elements in both parties that actually ARE nationalist by your definition; they have been in power and probably will be again eventually. I suppose it doesn't make the US fascist as a whole because they didn't get their agendas passed extensively.

But on corporatism, the state corporate complex is ALWAYS a symbiosis in practice, regardless of what it is supposed to be in theory. It was a symbiosis in Italy under Mussolini and in Germany under Hitler. Neither despot could have ruled without a regimented and complicit merchant class, and the latter had no shortage of compensation for cooperating. There are certainly differences in kind between the USA's brand of fascism and that of war-era European fascism, but I think that in terms of economic fascism the difference is only one of degree.
Title: Re: Fascist America.
Post by: johnwholesome on October 14, 2012, 05:02 am
Point conceded on nationalism. I would say, however, that there are certain elements in both parties that actually ARE nationalist by your definition; they have been in power and probably will be again eventually. I suppose it doesn't make the US fascist as a whole because they didn't get their agendas passed extensively.

But on corporatism, the state corporate complex is ALWAYS a symbiosis in practice, regardless of what it is supposed to be in theory. It was a symbiosis in Italy under Mussolini and in Germany under Hitler. Neither despot could have ruled without a regimented and complicit merchant class, and the latter had no shortage of compensation for cooperating. There are certainly differences in kind between the USA's brand of fascism and that of war-era European fascism, but I think that in terms of economic fascism the difference is only one of degree.

You make a compelling argument on corporatism. I haven't considered that angle before. That would raise the question, whether true fascism would require the agenda of that symbiotic complex to be in the national interest as per the definition of nationalism, or if pure profit motive would still qualify as "fascist agenda"

Very interesting point.

On a lighter note though and as some comic relieve, I dun think the tinfoil hats hording canned goods and ammo in the storm cellar really make such contemplations. I rather think they actually think swastika when they say "fascist", and that is of course preposterous :P

EDIT: +1 for good food for thought
Title: Re: Fascist America.
Post by: anonymarse on October 14, 2012, 08:02 pm
Hey, I save up canned food and ammo. 50 years ago it was called "keeping a pantry". I don't know why it should be called "hoarding" today. :p

Of course I'm pretty close to being a pacifist (I only keep ammo for sport and trade) so I probably don't fit the bill of the survivalist type you meant to reference.
Title: Re: Fascist America.
Post by: doublemint on October 17, 2012, 02:28 am
USA definitely isn't a fascist state. No offense, but, do you know what that even means?
Title: Re: Fascist America.
Post by: Torocracy on May 02, 2013, 07:58 am
reviving an old thread.

Nationalism: The U.S. is highly nationalistic. U.S. exceptionalism, politicians wrapping themselves in the flag, foreign interventions for domestic security purposes (imagined), wars for resource control, economic stimulus to help boost the national economy while simultaneously calling on foreign central banks to buy up these Dollars, exporting the inflation to the detriment of the poor in other countries.

Earlier posters wrote that the U.S. is not fascist because the government does not control big business, but instead it's the other way around. This is a distinction without a difference. The central banking model tied with a regulatory regime which promotes monopoly is fascist.

As George Carlin said, Fascism will come to America with a smiley face.

I think previous posters are afraid to call the U.S. a fascist state, because of the atrocities of previous fascist states. NAZI Germany was fascist before the holocaust. Italy was fascist and did not commit mass genocide.

Fascism is a cooperation between corporations and the state under a central banking system. One of these in this corporatist complex may have more power than the others, and I think looking at history and contemporary events, it appears the central banks are the true power centers. When money is created, those that receive the money first receive a large transfer of wealth from the middle class and poor. The power of a central bank is so immense.

I also wouldn't call this "late capitalism" as some of the comrades said earlier. Capitalism began to die in 1913 in the U.S. and the fascist state began in 1933.  Hell, there is a video of Goebbels complimenting FDR on his fascist policies to reduce unemployment in the U.S. before the war began

Or shall we consider when the Department of Education began or 1971 when the Gold Window was closed as the start?

Title: Re: Fascist America.
Post by: prophetjack on May 02, 2013, 08:54 am
What OP may be trying to say is that fascism in the past has many similarities to "inverted totalitarianism" which we in the U.S. have now. What really is the difference between money and power? The income disparity and wholesale human suffering are wonderfully described in Chris Hedges books. Also, Naomi Wolf's "End of America" is a good read for a well drawn out comparison between the past and present's journey to the same ends.