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Discussion => Drug safety => Topic started by: pennyloaferz on May 01, 2012, 01:02 am

Title: DMT and SSRI's
Post by: pennyloaferz on May 01, 2012, 01:02 am
I have a buddy who is very eager to experiment with a variety of drugs- he is probably the smartest kid I have ever met in my life so i like doing things with him especially tripping. and he has a desire to try everything once.  So I try to facilitate it as much as I can because he usually says some truly profound things. 

Hes always asked to try MDMA- so recently I gave him a defqon at a rave type enviorment- didn't work on him, figured it was because we were drinking.  So he watched my dog the other week so I gave him some molly and was like heres like half g to watch the pup and when i get back ill let you dip on some other shit i have.  so I got back and he was excited for it- so we started going for it, I started rolling heavy but he was sitting there looking frustrated- and then he started complaining his heart was racing, so he decided not to do that anymore.  I figured the batch i gave him was probably cut with caffiene or whatever since it wasnt from a personal stash and I know the dude i got it from usually cuts with caffiene and stuff.  So i was baffled but we stopped. 

So a couple nights later I had told him i got a batch of dmt in and we have long talked about using dmt together.  so i loaded us up some bowls and we smoked it up- I do think i shouldve added more, but I broke through and he wasn't feeling a thing, just super high. 

So i started racking my brain as to why he was having no effects with this stuff.  So i asked if he was on medication, he said a low doseage anti depressant (not an maoi or whatever).  I did some research and realized he probably is on an SSRI which would have caused the speedy reaction to the molly.  I was wondering if this could also be inhibiting his ability to break thru on DMT?

Me and this kid have been through a lot together and i think hes the type of guy that would benefit from a dmt experience- but I dont want to keep offering if its not a good idea~  :P
Title: Re: DMT and SSRI's
Post by: LainOfTheWired1984 on May 01, 2012, 03:51 am
That is REALLY scary to read man. SSRI's SYSTEMATICALLY rewire a person's neurons and fundamentally changes the brain's flow of neurotransmitters; Selective Serotonin Re-uptake Inhibitors (SSRI's) work by acting to suppress a neurotransmitters ability to absorb it's respective neurotransmitters. More Serotonin in your brain means a higher chance of death with drugs that cause serotonin floods such as...  cocaine, MDMA, LSD.

 I'm not sure about DMT and SSRI's, but from what I've heard the whole neurochemical brain change affects the brain's Pineal Gland; it is also referred to as "The Third Eye" by Descartes. Supposedly, naturally occurring DMT is produced by this very gland that is released during your deep REM sleep and at the moment of death, as some sort of evolutionary trait or something. Anyway, I'm not a chemist, and I'm high, but that was kind of fun. Hell yeah. I hope that helped, but definitely talk to your friend about perscriptions, ESPECIALLY SSRI's, that is a very dangerous combination. Lookup "Serotonin Syndrome."

Sounds fund man but be safe! Take care of your mind and your body first, then you'll REALLY can relax into the void so smoothly. If you can you should really get a freebase pipe. It's just plain more efficient and easier, healthier than light bulbs and shit. Good luck on future journies and I'm glad you have your friend's health in mind and be careful pimp. Mouth snappin', ass clappin', big booties hoes getting on my dee, no fee, don't give a fuck bitch, don't call me. Yeah...I FUCKING love marijuana.
Title: Re: DMT and SSRI's
Post by: modest mouse on May 01, 2012, 07:32 am
LW, I take it you read Dr. Strassmans book (well actually probably watched the movie). Check out DMT: the Spirit Molecule if you are interested in clinical trials of IV DMT

SSRIs do initially cause serotonin levels to increase in the synapse, however... a very important thing to remember is a tolerance to this increase occurs quickly, causing down regulation of receptors and other signaling changes withing the cell to maintain homeostasis. In a way this dampens the system and makes it less reactive, a much larger signal is now needed to produce the same effect.

It produces a tolerance against psychedelics for many individuals because the receptors just arent as sensitive possibly.

With the MDMA is wasnt actually dangerous, the actual danger of serotonin syndrome comes from the ssri which is metabolized slower after mdma generally... and can cause build-up and overdose of the ssri.  Preloading with too much 5htp is more dangerous and a risk for ss...

Supposedly, ssri can actually block the uptake of mdma by the serotonin transporter, which prevents much of the serotonergic neurotoxicity interestingly. However, i am guessing the dopaminergic and noradrenergic (unless it was a snri as well) were still excessively stimulated due to vesicular transporter reversal... basically its just acting as meth without the serotonergic component. maybe :)

also, the brain has great plasticity and will recover to most changes (ssri "systemic rewiring")... just not oxidative stress induced by mdma.
Title: Re: DMT and SSRI's
Post by: ninja turtle on May 01, 2012, 08:00 am
It is bullshit that SSRI's affect LSD, but they do affect MDMA.
Title: Re: DMT and SSRI's
Post by: DiMiTriSpice on May 01, 2012, 08:42 am
You smoked a couple bowls of DMT? Well. Thumbs up. However, MDMA should never be taken with SSRI's or tricyclic antidepressants or anything close to serotonin (absolutely not as it might lead to acute serotonin syndrome). A very bad and potentially dangerous endevour. Now by molly (sorry but the terms are thrown around so much now) do you mean MDMA or 2CT7? There's a difference. Kind of a big one in regards to your concerns. As far as the DMT goes I can give you an absolute. As DMT is very similar to serotonin and works on some of the same receptors, an inhibitor of serotonin will certainly dim the effects. I have seen this on a few people. They hit a threshold where they are still in this existence (albeit a strange and magical one) yet they are unable to leave.  This, however, is not a blanket statement. Many tryptamines are very personal, and DMT in particular (when smoking) demands something from us. The simplest and yet the hardest thing. Surrender.
Title: Re: DMT and SSRI's
Post by: Mixer on May 01, 2012, 10:27 am
Actually, the MDMA + SSRI combo doesn't lead to serotonin syndrome.
Both SSRIs and MDMA bind to the SERT (serotonin transporter). SSRIs have a much higher affinity for this receptor than MDMA, so they lower (or, in sufficient dose, completely block) its effects because the MDMA will release a lot less serotonin. After the SSRI has bond to a SERT receptor, inhibiting it, MDMA can't bind to the same receptor and doesn't cause any serotoninergic effect. Of course taking a bigger dose of a SSRI means more bond receptors, thus less effects from MDMA. No risk for serotonin syndrome.
The dangerous combination is MDMA (or any substance that releases serotonin) + MAOI. MAOs break down serotonin, and if they are inhibited serotonin builds up and causes serotonin syndrome.
Taking a SSRI after MDMA use actually prevents neurotoxicity. After the MDMA has released all the serotonin, it won't be taken up because the SERT is bond to the MDMA. Thus it gets broken down by MAOs, causing the down (serotonin depletion). SERT can also transport dopamine, but the transport is inhibited by serotonin (PubMed ID 21525301). Being the serotonin depleted, SERT takes up dopamine, which is toxic to serotonin cells! Also, MAOs break down dopamine into hydrogen peroxide, which oxides the cells, leading to further neurotoxicity.
If you take a SSRI after the serotonin depletion (when you crash), it inhibits the SERT, thus no dopamine is transported and no neurotoxicity happens.

DMT, like MDMA, binds to the SERT (PubMed ID 19756361) so unfortunately it's affected by SSRIs. Other psychedelics, like LSD, are 5-HT receptors agonists, so SSRIs don't affect them.
The problem is that drugs like DMT and MDMA don't just act on the SERT, they work on a lot of receptors, so if you increase the dose to get the serotoninergic effects you'll get a lot of side effects (like an overdose) because there's way too much drug on the other receptors.

So your friend won't be able to have a decent roll or DMT trip on SSRIs. I'm sorry :(