Silk Road forums
Discussion => Security => Topic started by: MyName on May 03, 2012, 12:45 am
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eeee talks about how SR is getting busted in a few weeks, how the whole place is fucked etc etc. i don't think we would be a target considering the other things on tor..
if LE did indeed figure how to crack tor and gather all this info, why would we be the first targets on a "tor sweep"? are you guys aware how much child pornography is on the tor network? (if you go look for it now please die very slowly). i hope LE would have enough decency to go after the true victims of Tor. those kids cant do shit, or help what is happening to them. everyone here has made a conscience decision to access this website to order drugs. fighting the war on drugs is pointless, even LE knows that. they would spend far more money busting everyone all over the world, and seize way less money than they would be spending in man hours, prosecution, etc. the war on drugs is about money and I find it hard to believe it would be profitable/worthwhile to conduct such a massive, worldwide raid on people ordering personal amounts of drugs. child porn on the internet is different, it is a victim-filled world. a much more realistic battle for them to be fighting, and winning such a war would be a honorable and worthwhile victory. i hope law enforcement has enough sense to see who they really should be focusing their attention on.
sorry for the rant and sorry if this is the wrong forum, any LE trolling the board...please go arrest someone that is actually harming the innocent.
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in a perfect world, you would be right. but in the u.s., it is easier to convict drug user/sellers than it is rapists. it's sad, but it's true. and with that other site getting hit, the farmer's market or whatever, it is very possible le could be looking here too. if it happens or not, only time will tell.
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We really need to think about how this would happen. If LE wanted to take down SR and start busting people, the only really effective way of doing so would be to find the SR server and seize it. If this happened, whatever info on it would be theirs. I suggested that SR make up a privacy policy so that if this ever happened we would know how much shit we were in, but it got shot down. Other than that, breaking bitcoin anonymity (really unlikely), TOR encryption (equally unlikely), or posing as a vendor are the only real ways that anyone could get busted.
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The vast majority of LEO realize that the war on drugs is absolute pointless bullshit because of how uncontrollable it is. It is impossible to eradicate drug use. People will always find a way to obtain drugs in any environment if they try hard enough. Fuck, they can't even keep drugs from coming out of prisons. it seems like that wouldn't even be an issue because it sounds so simple but drugs are constantly channeling through the prison system.
SR is a relatively insignificant microcosm of the massive drug trade that exists in the world and going after it would just be a waste of time. LE going after SR is comparable to a firefighter going after a candle when there is a five-thousand acre forest fire next door. I'm not saying that they definitely aren't, I'm just saying that it'd be a tremendous waste of time and resources.
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The vast majority of LEO realize that the war on drugs is absolute pointless bullshit because of how uncontrollable it is. It is impossible to eradicate drug use. People will always find a way to obtain drugs in any environment if they try hard enough. Fuck, they can't even keep drugs from coming out of prisons. it seems like that wouldn't even be an issue because it sounds so simple but drugs are constantly channeling through the prison system.
SR is a relatively insignificant microcosm of the massive drug trade that exists in the world and going after it would just be a waste of time. LE going after SR is comparable to a firefighter going after a candle when there is a five-thousand acre forest fire next door. I'm not saying that they definitely aren't, I'm just saying that it'd be a tremendous waste of time and resources.
What makes SR different is that were not quite the microcosm you think we are. We've been mentioned by name in the United States Senate. Its an election year. A big drug bust would be a real feather in the cap of one of these corrupt fucks diverting attention to how fucked this economy really is and justify there shitty existence. That big nagging giving out our personal info and the thought that that person on the other end could be LE? I hate fear mongering but i would take extra care with the Tony76 thing out there...They Like Building Prisons! They Need To Fill Them. Stay Safe!
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The vast majority of LEO realize that the war on drugs is absolute pointless bullshit because of how uncontrollable it is. It is impossible to eradicate drug use. People will always find a way to obtain drugs in any environment if they try hard enough. Fuck, they can't even keep drugs from coming out of prisons. it seems like that wouldn't even be an issue because it sounds so simple but drugs are constantly channeling through the prison system.
SR is a relatively insignificant microcosm of the massive drug trade that exists in the world and going after it would just be a waste of time. LE going after SR is comparable to a firefighter going after a candle when there is a five-thousand acre forest fire next door. I'm not saying that they definitely aren't, I'm just saying that it'd be a tremendous waste of time and resources.
i completely agree LE should be spending our tax dollars on fighting the real criminals: rapists, pedophiles, murders, sex offenders, FRAUDSTERS, etc. Drugs should NOT be on the list as if it were legalized it would be as victimless as alcohol or gambling. Not to say that there arent terrible problems associated with those two but for the majority of responsible adults it wouldnt be a problem. I know for a fact that if i could grow weed legally and buy my Roxy 30s and OC80s over the counter instead of from some low life street dealer, that i would be able to manage my addictions responsibly while maintaining my well paying senior level IT job. I have no problem right now paying my bills. Im not ashamed of that because Ive worked fuckin hard to get where I am and I'm very smart with computers and technology so I deserve to be where I am making what i do. The only thing i have a problem with is affording over priced drugs because they are illegal. A whole bottle of Roxys costs the amount that less then 10 does on SR or maybe even the street depending on where u live.
I also agree that there are many people in the legal & medical industry that want marijuana legalized, including doctors, lawyers, paralegals, nurses, and even many police. What i DONT agree with AT ALL is your statement that the vast majority of LEO realize the war on drugs is absolute pointless bullshit. WRONG. Especially in the USA. There are ALOT of police that think marijuana is a toxic drug that needs to be eradicated. They think that a plant that mother nature (or god depending on your beliefs) created is as toxic as alcohol or cocaine which man made. And dont get me started on the GIANT WASTE OF MONEY AND HUMAN LIFE that the DEA is. The money they put alone into ruining good peoples lives over marijuana alone is shameful and morally wrong. I will never understand why the DEA exists. I will also never understand why some group of conservative, uptight, self-rightous, extremist pricks think they have the right and are right to tell us what we can put in our bodies to alter our state of mind; but it's ok for alcohol though! Thank god for the alcohol which is scientifically proven to be more harmful then marijuana or even many opiate based drugs. other then widthdrawals, opiates dont really do TOO much damage if dosed & administered safely. they also dont make people act as fucking retarded and wreckless as alcohol does.
anyways. my point is that while some LE, probably liberal minded street cops, may think marijuana should be legal/decriminalized, most dont! the entire DEA is dedicated to making a law abiding citizen like myself a criminal for smoking a plant that has been part of human history for thousands of years, and consuming Roxys that werent prescribed at levels enough to make me euphoric, energetic, productive and happy. im glad i pay taxes to fund my governments entities that are designed to entrap me and lock me up because i prefer other substances then just alcohol. i just wish they were capable of realizing the benefits of legalization of drugs far outweighs the benefits of wasting tax dollars to make criminals of us . i am currently FAR more productive in society right now working, paying taxes and raising my family then i am in jail, costing money to lock me up, feed me and guard me from escaping. right now i am raising smart, healthy children, paying taxes that help fund legitimate law enforcement to keep rapists and murders off the street. my taxes also fund roads, healthcare and important social services for the less fortunate. but if im in jail how productive am i? how much tax can i pay in jail. NONE! the only one that benefits from it all is my lawyer. lol.
Anyways. theres my final rant for the night. LE, please think about how stupid it is to persue and lock up people for drugs. They're just STUFF. And we already have a giant portion of society functioning properly while they're illegal. Why not legalize all drugs, tax and regulate them?
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i don't think we would be a target considering the other things on tor..
Think again. SR is a target. A huge fat target, with a bulls-eye named DPR. I wish it weren't true, but they don't care what I wish.
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"JACOB APPELBAUM: I mean, it sounds to me like they are trying to expand that power to include all facets of the government, including the military, over civilian life with regard to surveillance and essentially to make it impossible for anyone to resist or to have judicial oversight. And that is a serious problem, in my opinion.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And how would legislation, for instance, that—like this House legislation, affect the work of your organization, the Tor Project, or would it, if it was enacted? Because you are set up to be able to protect the anonymity of people communicating over the internet.
JACOB APPELBAUM: Well, I’d like to think that it would mean that we’d have a lot more people using Tor every day. But—
AMY GOODMAN: That’s T-O-R Project-dot-org?
JACOB APPELBAUM: Yeah. I mean, the network is made up of people who care, right? So someone downloads it and says, "I want to help," and then the network gets bigger. We don’t run the network like Google runs the network. So, different people make it up. The problem is that if the U.S. government was allowed to spy on everything, they can try to watch all of the network. And that’s where it starts to break down. So one of the scary things here is that we’re just not even sure how to exist in a complete—what’s called "global passive adversary world," where they can watch the entire internet. And so, this is, I think, an existential threat to anonymity online, to privacy and to security of everyday people.
AMY GOODMAN: I mean, according to the Electronic Frontier Foundation, basic privacy practices that EFF recommends, like using the anonymizing service of Tor or even encrypting your emails, could be considered an indicator of a threat, under the Senate bills.
JACOB APPELBAUM: Yeah, I think that that’s a really interesting tell about this. They suggest that people who protect themselves online, especially from the state, which is known to abuse its authority and power against innocent people on a regular basis—to suggest that that means that you’re a threat is an absolute scary, scary prospect.
AMY GOODMAN: Let’s go to William Binney, who you were on with last week, the National Security Agency whistleblower who appeared on Democracy Now! We asked him about the NSA’s practice of collecting and storing emails.
AMY GOODMAN: Do you believe all emails, the government has copies of, in the United States?
WILLIAM BINNEY: I would think—I believe they have most of them, yes.
AMY GOODMAN: And you’re speaking from a position where you would know, considering your position in the National Security Agency.
WILLIAM BINNEY: Right. All they would have to do is put various Narus devices at various points along the network, at choke points or convergent points, where the network converges, and they could basically take down and have copies of most everything on the network.
AMY GOODMAN: That, again, National Security Agency whistleblower William Binney. He spent nearly 40 years at the agency but retired about a month after September 11, 2001, due to concerns over unchecked domestic surveillance.
WILLIAM BINNEY: But after 9/11, all the wraps came off for NSA, and they decided to—between the White House and NSA and CIA, they decided to eliminate the protections on U.S. citizens and collect on domestically. So they started collecting from a commercial—the one commercial company that I know of that participated provided over 300—probably, on the average, about 320 million records of communication of a U.S. citizen to a U.S. citizen inside this country.
AMY GOODMAN: What company?
WILLIAM BINNEY: AT&T. It was long-distance communications. So they were providing billing data. At that point, I knew I could not stay, because it was a direct violation of the constitutional rights of everybody in the country. Plus it violated the pen register law and Stored Communications Act, the Electronic Privacy Act, the intelligence acts of 1947 and 1978. I mean, it was just this whole series of—plus all the laws covering federal communications governing telecoms. I mean, all those laws were being violated, including the Constitution. And that was a decision made that wasn’t going to be reversed, so I could not stay there. I had to leave.
AMY GOODMAN: That was NSA whistleblower William Binney. I mean, he’s saying some explosive stuff. Six years later, in 2007, the FBI raided his home, pushing aside his son, his wife, held—he was in the shower. He also is a diabetic amputee. They put a gun to his head, the FBI. He was never charged with anything. This is a man who worked for the NSA for almost 40 years. Talk about the significance of what he’s saying here, from Narus to reading all the email.
JACOB APPELBAUM: Sure. I mean, basically what he’s saying is that the government is lying about what they are doing and what they have done, and they have not been held accountable in the last 10 years. And so, when they want to dramatically expand their ability to do these things in a so-called legal manner, it’s important to note what they’re trying to do is to legalize what they have already been doing and to suggest that they will be held accountable in a system where they already are not held accountable when they’re breaking the law. So if it were legal, it seems incredibly fishy that things would change and it would somehow improve, when in fact it seems to be just getting worse.
So what Binney is saying here is amazing, because he spent 40 years at the NSA. To get a guy like that to come onto a show like this and to talk with us is an incredible thing. I mean, that says to me that he believes that it is a threat to national security in a way that everyone should be concerned about.
AMY GOODMAN: We have to wrap up, but I want to go to the Whitney event you had, the Whitney Art Museum on Friday night, where a document was handed out listing the addresses of eight possible domestic NSA interception points. What are these points? What are they?
JACOB APPELBAUM: Well, I think it’s important for people to recognize the agency that they have every day in their life. And so, if the NSA is doing surveillance, as Mark Klein showed from AT&T’s side, I thought it would be interesting to—
AMY GOODMAN: He exposed AT&T spying on Americans’ phone calls.
JACOB APPELBAUM: With the NSA. So these addresses are addresses I believe are potential domestic NSA interception points, similar to the ones that Mark Klein exposed. And there’s a website. IXmaps is the name of it, and it’s a Canadian site. And they actually show when your internet traffic goes through potential NSA interception points, so you can actually test your internet connection. And that’s the Internet Exchange Maps project."
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Yeah CISPA is bullshit hopefully my brother Obama will veto that shit.
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Yeah CISPA is bullshit hopefully my brother Obama will veto that shit.
Thats what everyone said about the NDAA. Didn't happen, that pussy fuck signed the bullshit anyway. It doesn't matter any more, Republican, Democrat, we're all fucked; the prison-industrial complex is just steamrolling everything in the name of more $$$. And if things are this bad right now, just imagine if we had a Romney running the show.
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In regards to the troll:
I'm just curious. It's so obvious to me that there is a really good troll amongst us. I'm not going to say the name, since that is part of his troll.
But I've gotta ask, do you guys understand what a troll is and what they try to achieve? Trolls want you to argue, debate, and their sole purpose is to get a reaction out of you.
The rules of the internet states it like this "14. Do not argue with trolls — it means that they win."
^^^ this is a basic rule of the internet. There are guidelines set out for dealing with these annoying twerps. If you haven't ever heard the saying "Don't feed the trolls" learn what it means. It means don't argue or even respond to trolls. If you must respond, tell the troll to go back under their bridge. The troll on this board is eating this stuff up and he most likely doesn't believe in a thing he's saying. That's part of the troll too! Learn your meme. Ignore the troll completely because a lot of you are getting wrapped up into each one of his trolls and he gets off on that, he wins when you don't just ignore him. Act like he doesn't exist!
Google rules of the internet if you have to.
That is all. I just lost this round with the troll, but I needed to cast some light so maybe he'll disappear. I hope that helps some of you.
Cheers and love
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I dont know bout other countries, but here in Aus the police are just interested in the dealers. Why would they need to target SR itself ? its not like the dealers are actually in the internet lol, they are still real-life people who need to source their drugs from SOMEwhere, and I know alot of dealers on here deal a bit IRL too, so honestly, why the fuck would they target SR ? There are far more deals going on right under their nose IRL anyway. So IMO a dealer is a dealer, they are still a dude in a house with drugs.
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It is so obvious people good god.. If the government wanted to shut Silk Road down they could do it right now. That is a ridiculous thought heh.
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The revolution is coming people SR is sending subliminal messages to try and thwart the freedom fighters external messages of truth
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"JACOB APPELBAUM: I mean, it sounds to me like they are trying to expand that power to include all facets of the government, including the military, over civilian life with regard to surveillance and essentially to make it impossible for anyone to resist or to have judicial oversight. And that is a serious problem, in my opinion.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And how would legislation, for instance, that—like this House legislation, affect the work of your organization, the Tor Project, or would it, if it was enacted? Because you are set up to be able to protect the anonymity of people communicating over the internet.
JACOB APPELBAUM: Well, I’d like to think that it would mean that we’d have a lot more people using Tor every day. But—
AMY GOODMAN: That’s T-O-R Project-dot-org?
JACOB APPELBAUM: Yeah. I mean, the network is made up of people who care, right? So someone downloads it and says, "I want to help," and then the network gets bigger. We don’t run the network like Google runs the network. So, different people make it up. The problem is that if the U.S. government was allowed to spy on everything, they can try to watch all of the network. And that’s where it starts to break down. So one of the scary things here is that we’re just not even sure how to exist in a complete—what’s called "global passive adversary world," where they can watch the entire internet. And so, this is, I think, an existential threat to anonymity online, to privacy and to security of everyday people.
AMY GOODMAN: I mean, according to the Electronic Frontier Foundation, basic privacy practices that EFF recommends, like using the anonymizing service of Tor or even encrypting your emails, could be considered an indicator of a threat, under the Senate bills.
JACOB APPELBAUM: Yeah, I think that that’s a really interesting tell about this. They suggest that people who protect themselves online, especially from the state, which is known to abuse its authority and power against innocent people on a regular basis—to suggest that that means that you’re a threat is an absolute scary, scary prospect.
AMY GOODMAN: Let’s go to William Binney, who you were on with last week, the National Security Agency whistleblower who appeared on Democracy Now! We asked him about the NSA’s practice of collecting and storing emails.
AMY GOODMAN: Do you believe all emails, the government has copies of, in the United States?
WILLIAM BINNEY: I would think—I believe they have most of them, yes.
AMY GOODMAN: And you’re speaking from a position where you would know, considering your position in the National Security Agency.
WILLIAM BINNEY: Right. All they would have to do is put various Narus devices at various points along the network, at choke points or convergent points, where the network converges, and they could basically take down and have copies of most everything on the network.
AMY GOODMAN: That, again, National Security Agency whistleblower William Binney. He spent nearly 40 years at the agency but retired about a month after September 11, 2001, due to concerns over unchecked domestic surveillance.
WILLIAM BINNEY: But after 9/11, all the wraps came off for NSA, and they decided to—between the White House and NSA and CIA, they decided to eliminate the protections on U.S. citizens and collect on domestically. So they started collecting from a commercial—the one commercial company that I know of that participated provided over 300—probably, on the average, about 320 million records of communication of a U.S. citizen to a U.S. citizen inside this country.
AMY GOODMAN: What company?
WILLIAM BINNEY: AT&T. It was long-distance communications. So they were providing billing data. At that point, I knew I could not stay, because it was a direct violation of the constitutional rights of everybody in the country. Plus it violated the pen register law and Stored Communications Act, the Electronic Privacy Act, the intelligence acts of 1947 and 1978. I mean, it was just this whole series of—plus all the laws covering federal communications governing telecoms. I mean, all those laws were being violated, including the Constitution. And that was a decision made that wasn’t going to be reversed, so I could not stay there. I had to leave.
AMY GOODMAN: That was NSA whistleblower William Binney. I mean, he’s saying some explosive stuff. Six years later, in 2007, the FBI raided his home, pushing aside his son, his wife, held—he was in the shower. He also is a diabetic amputee. They put a gun to his head, the FBI. He was never charged with anything. This is a man who worked for the NSA for almost 40 years. Talk about the significance of what he’s saying here, from Narus to reading all the email.
JACOB APPELBAUM: Sure. I mean, basically what he’s saying is that the government is lying about what they are doing and what they have done, and they have not been held accountable in the last 10 years. And so, when they want to dramatically expand their ability to do these things in a so-called legal manner, it’s important to note what they’re trying to do is to legalize what they have already been doing and to suggest that they will be held accountable in a system where they already are not held accountable when they’re breaking the law. So if it were legal, it seems incredibly fishy that things would change and it would somehow improve, when in fact it seems to be just getting worse.
So what Binney is saying here is amazing, because he spent 40 years at the NSA. To get a guy like that to come onto a show like this and to talk with us is an incredible thing. I mean, that says to me that he believes that it is a threat to national security in a way that everyone should be concerned about.
AMY GOODMAN: We have to wrap up, but I want to go to the Whitney event you had, the Whitney Art Museum on Friday night, where a document was handed out listing the addresses of eight possible domestic NSA interception points. What are these points? What are they?
JACOB APPELBAUM: Well, I think it’s important for people to recognize the agency that they have every day in their life. And so, if the NSA is doing surveillance, as Mark Klein showed from AT&T’s side, I thought it would be interesting to—
AMY GOODMAN: He exposed AT&T spying on Americans’ phone calls.
JACOB APPELBAUM: With the NSA. So these addresses are addresses I believe are potential domestic NSA interception points, similar to the ones that Mark Klein exposed. And there’s a website. IXmaps is the name of it, and it’s a Canadian site. And they actually show when your internet traffic goes through potential NSA interception points, so you can actually test your internet connection. And that’s the Internet Exchange Maps project."
that's some heavy shit... and a deep read as well.... it's not that any of it surprises me, i've been supremely distrustful of the federal government since i was old enough to read and understand noam chomsky.... i don't believe that the united states federal government is beyond anything as long as it suits their interest.... it's the specifics that are so bothersome.... "they're fucking you, and they're doing it by a, b, and c".... and everybody seems to be in on the swindle... it just boggles my scrotum when i'm forced to consider that the common indifference to personal liberty held by a US citizen who'll talk out the side of his neck about the constitution and the bill of rights and the importance of human rights and how the USA in the model for these things and than fuck it all off given half the chance with a shit eating smile on his face... land of the free and the home of the brave... i'm embarrassed by the obvious line of propaganda... the previous interview makes me embarrassed to be a US citizen...
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What makes SR different is that were not quite the microcosm you think we are. We've been mentioned by name in the United States Senate. Its an election year. A big drug bust would be a real feather in the cap of one of these corrupt fucks diverting attention to how fucked this economy really is and justify there shitty existence. That big nagging giving out our personal info and the thought that that person on the other end could be LE? I hate fear mongering but i would take extra care with the Tony76 thing out there...They Like Building Prisons! They Need To Fill Them. Stay Safe!
To the government, SR is just a symbol. It represents a large number of people openly not giving a fuck about the law. When SR gained publicity it was like publicly spitting in the face of the DEA and everyone in the government who has made an effort to prevent people from gaining access to drugs because it's just such a blatant way of circumventing the law. SR has given a public platform to something that normally happens behind the privacy of closed doors. If people go after SR it'll be because of what SR represents, not because of the actual impact it has on the drug trade. I'm not saying whether or not they'll decide to. I just think they should save their breath.
I hate this country.
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JACOB APPELBAUM > NSA
hopefully...
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I wonder what the head of the DEA is thinking about his drug policy's now that Ronald Reagan drug advisory and policy maker for the just say NO campaign just joined LEAP and has come out for drug legalization and control? The movement is growing. LEAP. It's the real deal.
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Great (and disgusting) post Deleuze. +1
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LE ARE here, they DO monitor this place and they DO try and pull people into traps. Has nobody seen the latest Australian article that actually mentions DPR and the Tony scam SPECIFICALLY. Also has nobody seen the fishing threads like that one by an Australian asking for 10 pounds of puff. You should all be cautious and mindful that LE is here however it's just not happening in the way eeee/Mister Dank/whoever the fuck he's calling himself these days is saying. They wont be bothered about the buyers or farming addresses or crap like that. They will be want the Vendors, the Mods, the Admin and the Staff.
Things that protect you -
Proper use of TOR
Proper use of GPG
Researching vendors feedback
Staying in escrow
Using the forum to keep up with what is going on
You do all these, there aren't many ways you can go wrong.
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Learning more and more as I read these forums.
What a wealth of information, these forums are addicting!
lol
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Oh and to add, the way they will do it is by doing things like controlled sales to the people I mentioned above by infiltrating their ranks. They will not be able to do it by just wantonly selling to people. They are more likely to make consecutive buys from Vendors to try and triangulate their movements and their patterns of where they drop shit off.
The people like the staff will be harder to crack/nigh impossible because they aren't selling so unless they can break TOR then it's going to be shit hard for SR to go down unless something ridiculous happens like DPR/DigitalAlch is caught selling Smack to some hooker who he may bang and they decide to raid his house. However I highly doubt DPR either sells Smack or bangs whores so I reckon that we are ok on that note. Even if that DID happen which, as I say I highly doubt if you are using PGP to shoot your address around that another level of protection anyway.
As I say, if you just take the steps above there isn't much that can go wrong even if the shit did hit the fan. You just have to be solid in the knowledge of what you are doing and be confident that the admin/staff are neither selling Smack, nor banging whores or either at the same time (although that would be an achievement in mutli-tasking IMO).
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I see what you did there, Limetless. Rubbing it in that admins aren't allowed to do the latter but moderators are. Livin' the high life.
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I see what you did there, Limetless. Rubbing it in that admins aren't allowed to do the latter but moderators are. Livin' the high life.
LOL mayyyybe. And the admins may well vend. Who knows?
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All they have to do is start monitoring people who cash out large or consistently thru the known exchangers.
As if they werent already.
Yes this is the most likely way they will catch vendors however I was discussing LE being on SR/the forum itself.
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Lim you damn well know dpr is fuckin hoes with his internet fame and money. He's probably at th strip club bragging about having the best connects for coke while getting blow jobs lol.
All jokes aside what is the jail time for setting up a website like this? What would you get booked for exactly. I've been wonndering that for a while. Also since your just a mod does that carry some time with it since your not running the site?
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Lim you damn well know dpr is fuckin hoes with his internet fame and money. He's probably at th strip club bragging about having the best connects for coke while getting blow jobs lol.
All jokes aside what is the jail time for setting up a website like this? What would you get booked for exactly. I've been wonndering that for a while. Also since your just a mod does that carry some time with it since your not running the site?
At a guess if DPR got booked we are talking probably 20-30 years plus because I imagine as it's in the U.S it would be prosecuted using the RICO statutes and it would obviously be a federal case (that goes without saying).
If you just think off the top of your head you have the following -
Conspiracy to traffic narcotics
Facilitating a criminal enterprise
Aiding and abetting the sale of narcotics
Aiding and abetting drug traffickers
Advertising contraband
Also as SR has a tumbler on for the BTC that goes through it that can be classed as money laundering which will come with 3-4 charges on top of that
As a Mod we would be just as fucked because we would be classed as the staff. This is because even though the forum isn't on the same site as SR it's still SR's forum so being a part of that pretty much makes you one-and-the-same, although I am just speculating on this. Then on top of that the Mods that vend themselves (like my bad self) would get fucked for our own separate shit individually. On top of that looking at myself I would get done for ML because of the service I provide and also would probably get shagged for offering to sell lab equipment and stuff like that which would bring more shit on myself. Also the amount of different things I sell would look EXTREMELY bad in court because they cover the whole range from U.N restricted precursors, illegal equipment and the whole range of class A, B and C for the drugs.
Obviously I'm not a lawyer and American law is different to the U.K but what is especially shit for me is that I would probably get extradited to the U.S and have to serve my time there and then unless I was FUCKING lucky and served concurrent sentences I'd have to come back to the U.K and do time here to.
However having said all this would be extremely hard to prove that I was on SR or that I was who I am because there is no way on gods green earth that I'd be giving up any of my passwords or disclosing this information. I am just talking worst case scenario which would be that I was caught literally with my pants down and they had solid proof for every single thing they could fuck me on. As my shit is all encrypted unless they could crack my encryption the only thing they could do is give me a year for refusing to decrypt my shit and any drugs they found with me at the time.
So yeah SOCA if you are watching, go fist yourselves. :)
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Dude if from logic they think they know who you are all they gotta do is a tempest on your monitor while your on SR and your toast.
Indeed but they don't know who I am, otherwise they would have definitely kicked down the door by now lol.
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in a perfect world, you would be right. but in the u.s., it is easier to convict drug user/sellers than it is rapists. it's sad, but it's true. and with that other site getting hit, the farmer's market or whatever, it is very possible le could be looking here too. if it happens or not, only time will tell.
In a world where the DEA combats CP he might be right, but in the real world there are all kinds of law enforcement agencies and some of them are tasked with bringing down sites like SR and have absolutely no reason to target CP sites because it falls way out of their job description.
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I dont know bout other countries, but here in Aus the police are just interested in the dealers. Why would they need to target SR itself ? its not like the dealers are actually in the internet lol, they are still real-life people who need to source their drugs from SOMEwhere, and I know alot of dealers on here deal a bit IRL too, so honestly, why the fuck would they target SR ? There are far more deals going on right under their nose IRL anyway. So IMO a dealer is a dealer, they are still a dude in a house with drugs.
lol like why would LE target dealers using telephones? It isn't like there are actually dealers in the telephone lines! there are so many dealers out there right now IRL why the fuck would they target dealers on telephones?
LE does not make the same distinction between IRL and online that you do. IRL is just a (rather poor) way of saying "normal methodology of drug dealing", but when it comes down to it online is just a secure communications channel for IRL dealers to use.
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I dont know bout other countries, but here in Aus the police are just interested in the dealers. Why would they need to target SR itself ? its not like the dealers are actually in the internet lol, they are still real-life people who need to source their drugs from SOMEwhere, and I know alot of dealers on here deal a bit IRL too, so honestly, why the fuck would they target SR ? There are far more deals going on right under their nose IRL anyway. So IMO a dealer is a dealer, they are still a dude in a house with drugs.
lol like why would LE target dealers using telephones? It isn't like there are actually dealers in the telephone lines! there are so many dealers out there right now IRL why the fuck would they target dealers on telephones?
LE does not make the same distinction between IRL and online that you do. IRL is just a (rather poor) way of saying "normal methodology of drug dealing", but when it comes down to it online is just a secure communications channel for IRL dealers to use.
Spot on. +1 Karma
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If this place is taken down it will not be for public good or to enforce drug laws it will be taken down as a feather in the cap of Politicians in an election year such as this. The only thing that makes me think that may not happen is that SR is not well know enough for the voting public to care if it gets taken down. Now if the news stories continue to grow between now and say a few months before election in the USA then I would worry.
The selling of weapons connected to this site is one thing I am not for but do not try to deny others. My only objection to it is these weapons could be going to any lune or terrorist. While drugs hurt only the user. with weapons it is that the man/woman uses SAID weapon to hurt others. If this person had no criminal VIOLENT past and let me restate "VIOLENT" cause I do not think a convicted person of a crime is immoral or evil because of the Government labeling him what makes that person is evil is his intentions and what is in his heart.
Any good person here to just enjoy his or her vices and to pursue their own happiness that way has no reason to buy a gun black market. To me this risk of public out-lash at this policy/weapons store far out weigh the positives.
One thing is certain that operating under the radar and being low key and growing over time through good business and crime reduction is the surest way to survive here . If we stick our fingers in the face of LEA's and say "fuck you you can not get us haha" be certain they will do what they have to do to take this place down. That includes breaking the laws they uphold.
ALways remember power eventually gets so high with some people and organizations that rules do not exist ..laws do not exist.
I hate to quote a wrestler but to quote the million dollar man "everybody has a price" all it takes is the blackmail or pay off of ONE person connected to the power to be's here and be certain the the walls of Jericho will fall from the inside.
The first rule of engagement in a war is the gathering of intelligence. Be certain that is going on right now. BE CERTAIN.
Victor Von Doom - "One must prepare for every contingency"
and last but not least for those of you saying this or that is impossible. The word impossible is found only in the dictionary of fools.
Prepare yourself folks. Make your fail safes and look over your shoulder. Cause when they find one small minded individual he will start to connect the dots for LE. Keep this in mind. When you convince a LITTLE MAN with a small mind with no self value or self worth that he is helping and assisting in some grand design or apart of a great thing it makes him feel important and part of something and with that small mind he will do anything for the powers that ask it of him. Kill for them, hang witches for them, set families on fire and he will do it with a smile...BECAUSE HE THINKS IT'S RIGHT!
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LE ARE here, they DO monitor this place and they DO try and pull people into traps. Has nobody seen the latest Australian article that actually mentions DPR and the Tony scam SPECIFICALLY. Also has nobody seen the fishing threads like that one by an Australian asking for 10 pounds of puff. You should all be cautious and mindful that LE is here however it's just not happening in the way eeee/Mister Dank/whoever the fuck he's calling himself these days is saying. They wont be bothered about the buyers or farming addresses or crap like that. They will be want the Vendors, the Mods, the Admin and the Staff.
Things that protect you -
Proper use of TOR
Proper use of GPG
Researching vendors feedback
Staying in escrow
Using the forum to keep up with what is going on
You do all these, there aren't many ways you can go wrong.
Very good post and agreed with.
Use some common sense folks in what you order. No names mentioned for vendor but I have noticed a lot of forged ID's and prescription bottle labels. Both of which need either your real PHOTO or your real name assuming you have no fake ID and social from a reliable/trustful source. I thought LE right off the bat.
the use of fake script bottles is fine but why not just sell the program and means to print the script label at the buyers discretion? Why ask for real names? If you choose the argument that you won't sell many after time then up the cost of selling the said item. Personally being able to do that your self would not be too hard I would not think. But could be wrong.
I am wondering how many people here actually used their REAL email address when signing up? Use their real name? Guys/gals as many dots as you remove from the table the less likely they are to connect the dots to you..
Me personally I do not have a dislike for most LE. I feel many but not all are good people doing what they think is right and many of which know is a failed policy and either scared to speak our against it or fear that one man will not make a difference. LE risk their lives daily and they have families who love them and they risk far more than just their own lives. Most have my respect and my admiration except for the ones who abuse suspected criminals . Such officers do nothing but spit and piss on the grave of ever good officer who died defending those laws you are breaking cause of your own private bias or bigotry. Many are scared to lose their job. A border patrol officer in Arizona their to prevent drug flow made a comment that he agreed with LEAPS policy's and changes for drug reform and he was fired for it. LEAP is paying his attorney fees. AS the attorney said this man was hired and paid to perform a job asked of him not hired and paid to no longer have freedom of thought and have his own opinion. Any LE reading this. if you are unaware of LEAP (Law Enforcement against prohibition) Please look it up and read and watch the videos of these former DEA agents, ex narcotics officers, chiefs of police, Governors, senators, federal judges and federal prosecutors as well as ex presidents of other world countries. Ronald Reagan's ex drug policy maker is the newest member to join and he explains why. As the logic says doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results is insanity. The wise and intelligent know when to step back and say "ok this is not working let's try this idea" So LE go and read and watch and your ideals of defending what you think is right might just change when you hear the truths out of the mouths of those who no longer have anything to fear of reprisals. As a matter of fact I am willing to bet you will.
Are all drug users good decent people who wish to hurt no one and have no ill will towards others? NO. of course not. But you can ask the same of all smokers all gamers,all football players. There will always be good and always be bad. Use your own freedom of thought and judge what is good or bad morally cause in the end it is the people of high moral standards and values that support you and do not hurt anyone it is the people who use the in place laws now as a tool to hurt people with violence and prey on the young and elderly. Why do you want to do things that keep those people strong but hurt people like most of us here who just want to enjoy something that makes us happy or feel good or helps us cope with a troubled painful life?
In the end follow your heart and the moral will turn down the right road the rest will just be robocops and do as told no matter if it is right or wrong
think well on this last statement/quote.
“We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the
courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who
pervert the Constitution.”
― Abraham Lincoln
Take care and peace and love to all.
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At a guess if DPR got booked we are talking probably 20-30 years plus because I imagine as it's in the U.S it would be prosecuted using the RICO statutes and it would obviously be a federal case (that goes without saying).
If you just think off the top of your head you have the following -
Conspiracy to traffic narcotics
Facilitating a criminal enterprise
Aiding and abetting the sale of narcotics
Aiding and abetting drug traffickers
Advertising contraband
Also as SR has a tumbler on for the BTC that goes through it that can be classed as money laundering which will come with 3-4 charges on top of that
Pretty accurate. The biggest charge would be conspiracy. US federal sentences are based on the amount of drugs, and conspiracy means you're liable for everything in the conspiracy. When 3 guys get caught with 3 kg of cocaine, they don't get charged for 1 kg each. They each get charged with distribution of 3 kg.
So DPR and anyone with administrative power in the operation would be charged based on the total amount of drugs exchanged through the site. Think of the types of drugs and the amounts that have moved through SR since it opened. 500 g of cocaine is 63 months under the US federal sentencing guidelines. 2 kg is 10 years. 100 g of heroin is 63 months, 400 g is 10 years. Notice the 1:4 ratio that reflects a little over 5 years vs 10 years, this is true of most drugs at this sentencing level. 800 g of MDMA is 63 months, 3200 g is 10 years. They also count carrier weight, so one tab of MDMA is counted as 250 mg, no matter how much actual MDMA is in it (which is why you're better off selling molly). One blotter hit of acid is counted as 400 mcg, even though it might really have 50 mcg (which is why you're better off selling liquid). The acid sentencing guidelines are are especially harsh based on an irrational reaction to a perceived epidemic decades ago.
Now factor everything together with all the different drugs. The sentencing guidelines have clearly defined rubrics for combining the different drug amounts. You can download a PDF of the guidelines from the DOJ web site (over Tor, obviously). All US federal government documents are in the public domain.
At best if DPR has no criminal history and some mitigating factors come into play (like signing a plea agreement, acceptance of responsibility), he'd be looking at 30 years. That's the minimum. More likely there would be "enhancements" like RICO charges and we're looking at 50 years to life.
Obviously I'm not a lawyer and American law is different to the U.K but what is especially shit for me is that I would probably get extradited to the U.S.
Yep. Lots of Europeans have been extradited to the US. A few countries have favorable extradition laws, such as the Netherlands. An NL citizen who is extradited to the US and convicted of specific crimes (most notably drug crimes) will be returned to NL for "re-sentencing" under their laws, which usually carry a quarter of the time. Not many other countries do that. I think that's their way of protecting their citizens from the insane drug enforcement in other countries. Kind of how most European countries refuse to extradite to another country when the accused could be executed.
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Haha I do my homework. ;)
And yeah clearly I would get extradited because the U.K gets bent over by the U.S when it comes to shit like this. I personally think that DPR would get the most time because he owns the site however the staff and Mods and in particular the Mods that vend wouldn't be too far behind sentencing-wise.
Ah well, fuck them. Just makes the tempo of the dance a whole lot quicker! And nobody likes to spend their days doing a waltz..... ;)
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This is the only way I theorize police could successfully end Silk Road, assuming the security of tor, bitcoin, pgp, the whole system is actually foolproof.
The cops would buy several vendor accounts, make listings, and generate fake feedback. They could use 100 bitcoins to pretend to purchase some item for 20 bitcoins from various buyer accounts repeatedly and just keep sending the same bitcoins from vendor to a new address and then back to buyer, rapidly acquiring a good reputation. Over the course of two weeks, they make two-three rounds of fake purchases with all great feedback, and if a real member places an order during this period, they could just cancel it and say they have more orders than they expected and wanted to start small, so they don't actually have to ship anyone drugs to protect their reputation.
Once they have a fake reputation, they can announce that they will accept all orders, make a sale or some shit, and start collecting buyer's names and mailing addresses. They organize a massive nationwide sting, and do controlled deliveries all simultaneously on like 30 sr buyers and bust them hard for possession of small quantities. It gets massive media attention and those people are made into examples and get ridiculously unfair sentences.
Then, hundreds of other users will leave SR and new people will be afraid to join because they will all be afraid of going to jail. The market will dry up and vendors will start leaving because they can make more money IRL, and slowly the community will fall apart on its own, because the cops put the fear into buyers.
I can't think of any other way really, unless they hacked our shit and already know EVERYTHING. o.O
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Funny thing about this whole concept... every mother fucker out there IS A DRUG USER. Except may for those crazy religious fools who won't use mustard because it's in some way stimulating.
We grow up with DRUGS EVERYWHERE. Drug stores, coffee, cigs..... and more and more the new generations know that A. everyone is full of shit. AND B. no one has the right to impede on anothers contract.
AND WHEN THE FUCK DID "RECREATION" become such a BAD WORD?! Even the simple words we use, shed light on the truth. Awareness is growing, SR is fucking BRILLIANT! I hope it stays so. I believe it will. The fucks who want to bring it down, are simply sleep walking, indoctrinated ego driven fools that have an exponentially growing opposition! Education and awareness snuffs out status quo.
Everyone must be governed. Either by themselves or others. And I don't know if DPR is well known amongst many here... but even any one individual here, sellers mainly.... could be a concept! DPR could be 10 people. Same with sellers. If you have a network spread out, how difficult would it be to find, charge etc... a number of fools that live by a code. Oh yeah, there's always some fools who'll crack. Comes outta fear. There's also people who refuse to entertain the notion of fucking their friends and becoming the most shameful kind there is... a RAT. But it's out of fear. Can anyone here, imagine having ZERO fear of leo's? They are becoming part of the old way. The system can't stay the same for long. Life is change. You are change. How will you choose to create?
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Lets not kid ourselves, SR is a big target, and if it's in the US we are all fucked because my country freaks the fuck out when it comes to drugs.
lets keep this place small and private
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what just blows my mind is how good people out there... can straight up mindlessly FUCK others for a paycheck. Regarding le's. It's such a low game. I mean obviously it's because society supports it. And belief systems run deep. And we're ALL stuck in the wage game! But society is changing... consensus emerges always. Commerce is changing. One way or the other. And basically the groups supporting corrupt corporate authoritative thugs (All those entities who exert their will over others), are thinning. But hey I'm a fuckin serious optimist here. I believe that waking up means you stop fucking others in the ass for your personal wage game. Find another. It takes a strange kind (to me) to live that life.
Sorry if I'm ranting. I just think everyone who supports authority in the system to tell them what they can and can't do, are usually complacent conventional and can often be quite hypocritical, complacent drones.
I'm sure it's a true target. Perhaps the most aggravating. Hopefully forever so. I'm just saying how long can someone in these times, continue through their life straight ruining others shit/life/day/experience and not EVER KNOW what a fucking piece of waste and regressive human existence they've been acting as? And I humbly respect those that truly serve others... however they do. Good people are all over.
It's really just a war of gangs. Some more autonomous, some behind an illusion of justice and righteousness.
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It is all a power game. Every thing from drugs to weapons to war. Anything that brings more of the same. Cause people of power are scared of nothing except losing it.
If it be a war in iraq or afghan. Not about oil not about freedoms not about anything but the US Government strategically placing it's chess pieces all over the globe till eventual Domination is achieved as it has already for the most part. USA/UK/ IS-RIAL . This type of thing has taken place since the beginning of time if you read the history books. Wars are not won with weapons they are won with intelligence gathering so that those weapons can be used properly at the right time and the right place. There is no battering or making deals with Gov powers unless you have something they need or want and they can not take with out public out cry. That is why everything you hear on the news and read in the news papers is nothing more that what is leaked out that the Gov wants you to think is the truth.
Many people call these conspiracy theories some are but most are not and all one must do is use logic to get to this judgement.
1. The war on drugs. Total failure on all measurable fronts from a safety and public good stand point and hurts many many many more people with violence killing innocent women and children and families YET the Gov keeps it going. They do not even discuss other options. WHY is that you think? Because they believe so heavily in that ideology? Of course not. Because they are reaping rewards from it that no one knows about because if option 1 clearly does not work beyond all doubt and a person does not try and find another option then that person/persons is dishonest and hiding something. Logic dictates that.
The founding fathers of the unites states all the way up to Abe Lincoln always stated publicly (and I have a thread about all their quotes on the rights to use drugs and do what you want with your own body posted in the off topic section 2 page for anyone interested.) That no freedom is greater than mans right to do what he wants with his own body and that it was put in the constitution to always allow that and that was believed up till the civil war. Abe said it best that the constitution should never be touched or changed because that is what always us as men to remain free. The changes that have been made all have to take away our rights to do this or that and a free country is not free if you want a drug free country cause the term drug in it's self is planted in the citizens mind as evil or poison. Gov brainwashing. While George Washington Loved hemp so much he declared all should grow it and it was once a law that no state can refuse to grow hemp. Thomas Jefferson had an opium plant garden that he cherished of which the DEA stormed into and cut up and removed.. This is today's America Love your country but hate your Gov.. This Gov lies and distorts truth. Allows the FDA to pick and choose what we can not eat. It is ok for the government to prescribe all these man made chemicals for a persons ills cause they profit off it but a farmer in the USA can be tossed in prison for selling the raw milk that his cows produce, true facts folks look it up.
Even Americans Civil war is not told in truths in schools. Not my opinion im stating but the opinion of scholars who are not afraid to speak out against this Gov. Each state has a freedom to succeed from the union it says so in the unites states documentations of the founding fathers but most the income to this country at that time including export was cotton. Where did cotton come from? The south.. The root is money in all things and it is said best here.
“The money powers prey upon the nation in times of peace and conspire against it in times of adversity. It is more despotic than a monarchy, more insolent than autocracy, more selfish than bureaucracy. It denounces, as public enemies, all who question its methods or throw Light upon its crimes. I have two great enemies, the Southern Army in front of me and the bankers in the rear. Of the two, the one at my rear is my greatest foe... corporations have been enthroned, and an era of corruption in high places will follow, and the money power of the country will endeavor to prolong its reign by working upon the prejudices of the people until the wealth is aggregated in the hands of a few, and the Republic is destroyed.”
—Abraham Lincoln
Thomas Jefferson was of the same opinion:
“I sincerely believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. Already they have raised up a money aristocracy that has set the government at defiance. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people to whom it properly belongs.”
Try and see the big picture folks. Not fighting just against a ban on drugs and our freedom of choice granted to us under God (which ever god it is you worship if any) but learn to discover the reasons why these bans are in place and who profits from them. Trace that back and we have the TRUE answer to these problems.
Ben Franklin said it best when he said I woe for the man who reads newspapers for he will believe what he reads before determining it's truths. Hitler said _the bigger the lie the more people will believe it.
President Lincoln was assassinated for one reason. To become a Martyr for the cause of the newly established US Government and if you look back and trace the changes to the constitution since that times each has been a step in taking away our freedoms. The very things Thomas Jefferson, john Adams, George Washington warned us would happen. Has anyone ever wondered why the PRO slave south was practically 100% Democrats during and before the civil war but is now almost the same % but are now Republicans?
To the victor goes the spoils and with the spoils comes the power to distort the truth and prevent such truths from being in the history books. There is a reason why most black historic scholars dislike Abe Lincoln and call him a farce . Because they educate their selves on the facts in front of them and not Gov written propaganda found in book stores and universities across the country. They know unlike most that slavery was not mentioned by Abe till 2 yrs after the war started. If he had the power to free the slaves as he did 2 yrs into the war why did he not free them at the start of the war which surly would have prevented it if not shortened it considerably. The reason why this man made a law to free slaves was because Brittan had agreed to to send troops to help the south but The politicians knew that the UK would not support a Goverment (that being the Confederate states of america) that was fighting a war to keep slaves. Soon as Pres Lin passed that law the UK declared it;s support of the south and refused troops. The UK knew this war was over power and that is why they supported the souths freedom to succeed before the mention of slave rights was even mentioned.
This is not meant to be about a united states civil war but to show where this countries current policies started and originated from. This is not the America that those great men founded and we are not free. For how can you be free if you ask for a drug free or a **** free anything? You can not have it both ways.
Try not to forget the cia and fbi's mind tricks as well. Take notice started with Pres Lin assignation that ever single one has been a man of three names. John wilkes booth, Lee harvy oswald,,Mark David Chapman,James Earl Ray... That is a government because three named individuals stick out clearly in your heads.
The only way to freedom is through revolution and unless all citizens unit and march on Washington and take it back freedom will never be alive again. This will never happen as most people are sheep who follow what they see and hear on the news and in news papers. The Northern civil war era gov did their job well.
If drugs are legal who needs a script from a Dr ? They are all in the bed together. Let me say I IN NO WAY SUPPORT TERRORISM but I find it funny that today American Government cause any Islamic group terrorist cause they fight a guerrilla war yet it was that same kind of fighting the soldiers of the united states fought to win our freedom back then. Terrorist is something the big army calls the little army. I just disapprove of their killing of innocents and children.
I consider the people running and operating this place to be true patriots fighting in the name of FREEDOM and upholding what those men fought and died for while the LEA's continue upholding and delivering Hitler and nazi type behavior hunting down and hurting innocents because of their own personal dislikes and bias and hatred.
I salute all who run this place and in the name of freedom and in the name of GOD I hope your cause triumphs forward for it is a just and noble cause. AMEN!!
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Please do not get me wrong TRR. When I say the killing of women and children. I do not mean it from the point of view you are thinking. I too would shoot them down if they had weapons shooting at me.
What I meant was I disagree with the blowing up of restaurants and buildings where innocent women and children are and killing them.
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Again I think we are on the wrong page. First off I believe that in times of war that humanity is an overrated commodity. What must be done for the greater good in times of war must be done. Some times the needs of the many out way the needs of the few. to quote "spock"
When Islamic regimes blow up restaurants and buildings killing innocent kids is what I am saying I do not agree with. It is a terror tactic but at the same time I just do not believe that works in their favor.
How do you know I have never been on the front lines? Felt or heard bullets whiz by me?
I do not have a hippie outlook of hey never war always peace. Some times war is the only way to peace. Cause you can not feel sorry for evil or try and change it. Evil is Evil and it's true power is in deception to make you feel sorry for it or think you can change it or believe in it's lies. If a man snorts some coke home alone is he evil? Of course not. Not by just opinion because opinions are based on what you have been taught but I say and think this based on unbias , logical and practical thinking.
If I go on the street to buy some coke the dealer may have robbed or killed someone to get the product committing a crime and hurting people. Why? Cause he wants the money he can make selling something a person can not go buy at a store.
Now if I want a loaf of bread I get in my car drive to the store and buy it go home and enjoy it. Hurting no one. NO ONE. That to me is what silk road provides. Assuming a vendor does not aquire his product the way described above.
If our true rights under god and constitution were restored it would eliminate any such crime from taking place. Go to store buy coke come home and enjoy and live my life pursuing that which makes me happy.
Now I do believe that the freedom to drink or use drugs should be tied to some rules. such as must be done at home if it is a mind altering drug. Same as drunk drivers who you see kill innocent kids and people everyday EVERYDAY yet nothing is said about booze being outlawed. To me the ability to use substances should be a privilege connected to the right to do it and if you abuse that privilege it should be revoked from you. A drunk driver who is sloppy drunk that get's caught 4 times should go from a minor charge to eventually never being able to have a lis again and if caught after that jail. Same for drugs if it affects your ability to be around others and not have control of your self to where you can't/won't hurt them. Drunk drivers and I have driven drunk my self mind you but have restrained from it in recent years they do not use their right frame of mind when driving but they know this happens before engaging in drinking. To me that is no different than shooting a bullit through someones window. you may or may not hit and kill someone. No ones life is worth that chance.
you want to shoot heroin at home go for it its your right you want to snort coke or pop pills or smoke weed that is your right under god just do not do it or take it around others who do not do it if you can not maintain control of your faculties . Just my opinion.
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Like wise TRR.. I have enjoyed our conversation.
1off said this "So DPR and anyone with administrative power in the operation would be charged based on the total amount of drugs exchanged through the site. Think of the types of drugs and the amounts that have moved through SR since it opened. 500 g of cocaine is 63 months under the US federal sentencing guidelines. 2 kg is 10 years. 100 g of heroin is 63 months, 400 g is 10 years. Notice the 1:4 ratio that reflects a little over 5 years vs 10 years, this is true of most drugs at this sentencing level. 800 g of MDMA is 63 months, 3200 g is 10 years. They also count carrier weight, so one tab of MDMA is counted as 250 mg, no matter how much actual MDMA is in it (which is why you're better off selling molly). One blotter hit of acid is counted as 400 mcg, even though it might really have 50 mcg (which is why you're better off selling liquid). The acid sentencing guidelines are are especially harsh based on an irrational reaction to a perceived epidemic decades ago."
If this place should ever go down if the LEA's will use the amount of said drug sent to charge the vender why not just get rid of previous records of all sales and start over using a code only known to buyer and vender that is encrypted containing the drug and amount asked for. We use such tools for giving information such as mailing address and names why not the substance and how much. Just title areas in the market section for buys with the name of the drug being sold in that section. It may take some time and effort to ask the vender how much he has and the price but it does provide safety to the vender I would think.
If not that why not just make all transaction information encrypted by default and then destroyed after the product is confirmed being delivered with no dispute?
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I fail to see how it is too consuming on time and resources when the same method is used when placing orders.
In my experience I have found no matter the time and no matter the resources there is never a too much point when it comes to self protection. If one does not have the resources then do not play the game.
I see no reason why venders can not advertise their warez but when it comes for a buyer to ask for a said amount and then for the vender to get address and confirm shipping that it can not been done via private note and a script can be wrote on the SR server side of things to automatically destroy all information regarding sales amounts and shipping information.
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Once they have a fake reputation, they can announce that they will accept all orders, make a sale or some shit, and start collecting buyer's names and mailing addresses. They organize a massive nationwide sting, and do controlled deliveries all simultaneously on like 30 sr buyers and bust them hard for possession of small quantities. It gets massive media attention and those people are made into examples and get ridiculously unfair sentences.
Then, hundreds of other users will leave SR and new people will be afraid to join because they will all be afraid of going to jail.
I have suspected something along these lines. You have to understand that DEA is under pressure to shut this site down. They may not be able to "crack" Tor and find the server, but if they can spread enough FUD, they can scare away enough people to effectively shut it down. And since most purchases are small, they have an incentive to follow through on controlled deliveries of small packages. Some of them will be SR buyers who will come on the forum and elsewhere talking about their busts.
So they create some fake vendor accounts and sell drugs to themselves through fake buyer accounts. All they lose is SR commission but that's a small price to pay. Once they gain the community's trust, they start taking orders from real buyers and pay everyone a friendly visit. A shitstorm ensues and everyone is too afraid to use SR.
Why haven't they done it yet? Maybe they think they can find the server and DPR, and killing the site through FUD would prevent them from doing that. LE will allow dealers to sell for months under surveillance because the "greater good" is identifying everyone in the network. Assuming SR is well protected, which it sounds like it is, identifying it would be revolutionary because no properly configured hidden service has been identified through a direct attack on the Tor network to date (although some have been identified through misconfigured services).
This is a real test of the technical capabilities of Tor. If it ever happens that a bunch of buyers get busted, then you'll know that LE failed at cracking Tor. If a major sweep of SR buyers never happens, then my assumptions were wrong, and LE is too stupid, lazy or indifferent to SR to follow through. The last and worst option is that they find the server and DPR. The blowback from that would be far reaching, because if FBI or NSA can crack Tor, then potentially any other government or LEA can do it too. That changes the game for millions of people in Iran, Syria, China, etc. They actually have a pretty strong incentive not to crack Tor, or at least suppress all information that they did.
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I would do what ever needed to be done to cover my tracks and ensure my freedom and safety to the highest degree afforded to me. If that meant working 10 hrs a day to get orders processed and shipped and then documentation destroyed than indeed I would invest the time.
Do not be one of those people behind bars that say to them selves every night "Why didn't I take the time to do that" or "why didn't I think of that"\
Remember this always every jailed offender, Not ONE of them woke up that day and said to themselves "this is the day I go to jail" No. They got caught and went to the slammer cause of either loose lips, placing trust in the wrong people and o they were sloppy in their business dealings and left loose ends.
Another thing many venders might do if they are not already LEO's haha and believe I have known people very closely connected to FBI drug smugglers and when you read the CIA and FBI is involved in drug trafficking rest assured it is true. Join your local FOP and get to know some leo's get them to like you. If ever pulled over many will cut you a break. Go to rally s for judges seeking reelection and if possible make a nice contribution and get said judge to think kindly of you. Mix and mingle in with the crowd you are worried about because if and when you get busted it is these individuals that decide your fate. as the saying goes "keep your friends close but your enemies closer" Hello even stick a FOP sticker on your car.
Patience is the key in all things and if one fails to take the time to examine all possibilities involved in their situation then they leave them selves vulnerable. No different than a PC with no anti virus or encryption and other security tools. Even if something seems like it is a million to one chance of happening make sure that base is covered. People win the lottery every week friends and the odds are what? 500 million to one?
In the end the choice is yours. Gung ho balls to the walls I just want money fast and whatever happens happens or you get organized. Hence the term organized crime. They seldom got caught in the old days cause they ran it like a bushiness and had rules each must follow. SR needs to be more organized in my belief just to protect venders and buyers. Mainly in the things I already mentioned. Encrypted sales and destruction of documentation of any kind. I would also have a self detonate script for all files on the server and something in place to prevent heavy magnetism machines from leeching the date off a toasted hard drive. All angles should be covered and if they are everyone is safe unless the user himself does something stupid beyond belief.
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As far as the security of Tor. I am not 100% convinced that it is not already compromised. The United States Government is the one who wrote the program correct?,The navy or something? You think they failed to put in a back door only they know about if and when the need arises to use it? Would be a foolish programer if he did not.
For the safety of the SR admins and powers to be. Have scripts set up to destroy the files and permanently damage the hard drives beyond any possible gathering of data. Personally if I designed the scheme I would make it underground with 4 layers of floors and security on each floor not to stop the feds but to delay them so that the said watchmen who should be on guard 24/7 week 360 days a yr will have time to press the proper keys/button to destroy it. I would also have a dummy server and online service running that is illegal but does not carry a long prison term such as this would. That way when asked why this is all set up it can be said well we are pirating games or whatever. That would need some research but redundancy is of the utmost important.
Just my 2 cents and hell I could be way off base.
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Join your local FOP and get to know some leo's get them to like you. If ever pulled over many will cut you a break. Go to rally s for judges seeking reelection and if possible make a nice contribution and get said judge to think kindly of you. Mix and mingle in with the crowd you are worried about because if and when you get busted it is these individuals that decide your fate.
This is excellent advice. Honestly you don't realize how much the justice system is an in-crowd game. Judge's and politician's kids get off easy. Their friends get off easy too. I've seen it happen. Make friends with cops, judges, prosecutors, mayors, city council members or their kids. How? They do stuff in the community. They may attend a certain church, swim at a local YMCA, or play bingo at some club. Go there, do that, no matter how much it pains you.
Also, don't dress like a hippie, goth, or whatever. I drove dirty to a festival a couple of years ago and all the hippie vans were pulled over by the side of the road getting searched. We drove right through with our sedan. Khakis and three-button polo shirts FTW. Get yourself some fake glasses, it will drastically decrease the chances of a search in the event you get pulled over. They may claim that they don't profile, but they do.
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None taken.
Also I have no connections just an old friend who was connected with and worked with the said individual. I never met this person. Was just pointing out I know first hand the FBI and CIA's involvement in smuggling drugs into this country.
Trust me I am a nobody.
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As far as toasting the drives go I was not referring to just deleting partitions and wiping to zeros. Magnetic retrieval is usually a success so any drive should be taken apart flip the magnet in it out and damage the sob beyond any kind of retrieval.. In a situation said above I would have a detonator attached to all drives set to explode remotely before the feds enter the fourth floor and to be done before they enter also to ensure no feds are injured or killed. Who wants that charge?
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As far as the security of Tor. I am not 100% convinced that it is not already compromised. The United States Government is the one who wrote the program correct?,The navy or something? You think they failed to put in a back door only they know about if and when the need arises to use it? Would be a foolish programer if he did not.
This is ignorant tripe. Tor is open source, so the code can be reviewed by anyone. You don't have to download and run an opaque binary. You can download the source code, read it and compile it yourself to be sure that it isn't backdoored. There are thousands of researchers and hackers investigating the potential weaknesses of Tor, so it's incredibly unlikely that a backdoor would not be noticed by someone. As Eric S Raymond said, with enough eyes, all bugs are shallow.
Furthermore, while the original onion routing protocol was a project of the US Naval Laboratory, which is a research arm of the Navy kind of like DARPA, that doesn't mean it's controlled by the US military. Tor has also been financially supported by organizations like the EFF , which is a big thorn in the side of US government surveillance efforts.
But ultimately the proof is in the pudding. You can read the code yourself. You don't have speculate about backdoors.
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Trr I can and will in no way debate this matter with you as you clearly know much more about it all than I. I was just using the logic of my own mind. I am sue it has been tried and used before. That I have no clue.
AS far as Tor's safety I consider no software safe and secure for the most part. I can only take the most secure actions I can to protect my self and hope it works.
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As far as the security of Tor. I am not 100% convinced that it is not already compromised. The United States Government is the one who wrote the program correct?,The navy or something? You think they failed to put in a back door only they know about if and when the need arises to use it? Would be a foolish programer if he did not.
This is ignorant tripe. Tor is open source, so the code can be reviewed by anyone. You don't have to download and run an opaque binary. You can download the source code, read it and compile it yourself to be sure that it isn't backdoored. There are thousands of researchers and hackers investigating the potential weaknesses of Tor, so it's incredibly unlikely that a backdoor would not be noticed by someone. As Eric S Raymond said, with enough eyes, all bugs are shallow.
Furthermore, while the original onion routing protocol was a project of the US Naval Laboratory, which is a research arm of the Navy kind of like DARPA, that doesn't mean it's controlled by the US military. Tor has also been financially supported by organizations like the EFF , which is a big thorn in the side of US government surveillance efforts.
But ultimately the proof is in the pudding. You can read the code yourself. You don't have speculate about backdoors.
Tell that to the ones that said theirs was 100% secure and Kevin Mtnick got to them. Hell he hacked into the FBI's computers.
If it can be written it can be broken and any backdoor can be hidden. Open source or not. Not all Gov secrets and tools and tricks are leaked to the public. That is what keeps them their power to use when people believe and think the same thing you just said.
To each his own. I have enjoyed the conversation guys.
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As far as toasting the drives go I was not referring to just deleting partitions and wiping to zeros. Magnetic retrieval is usually a success so any drive should be taken apart flip the magnet in it out and damage the sob beyond any kind of retrieval.. In a situation said above I would have a detonator attached to all drives set to explode remotely before the feds enter the fourth floor and to be done before they enter also to ensure no feds are injured or killed. Who wants that charge?
One you would be short on time to do that and two how would you control the blast radius , underground ? Real life scenario this is not.
Does not take much of a blast to destroy a hard drive especially if it is concealed in a vault or hidden blast proof compartment with the ability for the signal to reach to detonator.
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If it can be written it can be broken and any backdoor can be hidden. Open source or not. Not all Gov secrets and tools and tricks are leaked to the public. That is what keeps them their power to use when people believe and think the same thing you just said.
This may come as a surprise to you, but programming languages can be understood by humans. That's why they exist. The only way to "hide" a backdoor in the source code would be to obfuscate it, and I agree, if the source code you download has a bunch of obfuscated code (readily identified as *shit you can't read and understand*), then you shouldn't compile and run it.
The point is that Tor's source code can be downloaded, analyzed and understood. You don't have to speculate about backdoors. You can actually look and confirm or disconfirm that they exist (or that weird, unreadable, indecipherable code exists, which would be a big red flag). You can run only the stuff that you (or a competent, trusted peer) understands. That's the value of open source.
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As far as toasting the drives go I was not referring to just deleting partitions and wiping to zeros. Magnetic retrieval is usually a success so any drive should be taken apart flip the magnet in it out and damage the sob beyond any kind of retrieval.. In a situation said above I would have a detonator attached to all drives set to explode remotely before the feds enter the fourth floor and to be done before they enter also to ensure no feds are injured or killed. Who wants that charge?
One you would be short on time to do that and two how would you control the blast radius , underground ? Real life scenario this is not.
Does not take much of a blast to destroy a hard drive especially if it is concealed in a vault or hidden blast proof compartment with the ability for the signal to reach to detonator.
Stupid idea is stupid. First of all physical damage to destroy data on a hard drive is a horrible way to go about things unless you plan to entirely melt it or grind it into dust particles. Why not just encrypt it and cut power? More realistic, and far more effective, and no destruction of evidence charges. Maybe contempt of court if you refuse to give up the password, but that is what deniable encryption is for.
As far as Tor goes of course it can be hacked, just in the past 12 months there have been several remote code execution vulnerabilities in it. Pretty much nothing should be considered hack proof unless it has been formally verified.
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Gold-Lock is the only software I really trust but this is just for phones. You need two phones with the software on for the encryption to work though. The prices are very reasonable though for what you get. I've been using them for a while.
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Once they have a fake reputation, they can announce that they will accept all orders, make a sale or some shit, and start collecting buyer's names and mailing addresses. They organize a massive nationwide sting, and do controlled deliveries all simultaneously on like 30 sr buyers and bust them hard for possession of small quantities. It gets massive media attention and those people are made into examples and get ridiculously unfair sentences.
Then, hundreds of other users will leave SR and new people will be afraid to join because they will all be afraid of going to jail.
I have suspected something along these lines. You have to understand that DEA is under pressure to shut this site down. They may not be able to "crack" Tor and find the server, but if they can spread enough FUD, they can scare away enough people to effectively shut it down. And since most purchases are small, they have an incentive to follow through on controlled deliveries of small packages. Some of them will be SR buyers who will come on the forum and elsewhere talking about their busts.
So they create some fake vendor accounts and sell drugs to themselves through fake buyer accounts. All they lose is SR commission but that's a small price to pay. Once they gain the community's trust, they start taking orders from real buyers and pay everyone a friendly visit. A shitstorm ensues and everyone is too afraid to use SR.
Why haven't they done it yet? Maybe they think they can find the server and DPR, and killing the site through FUD would prevent them from doing that. LE will allow dealers to sell for months under surveillance because the "greater good" is identifying everyone in the network. Assuming SR is well protected, which it sounds like it is, identifying it would be revolutionary because no properly configured hidden service has been identified through a direct attack on the Tor network to date (although some have been identified through misconfigured services).
This is a real test of the technical capabilities of Tor. If it ever happens that a bunch of buyers get busted, then you'll know that LE failed at cracking Tor. If a major sweep of SR buyers never happens, then my assumptions were wrong, and LE is too stupid, lazy or indifferent to SR to follow through. The last and worst option is that they find the server and DPR. The blowback from that would be far reaching, because if FBI or NSA can crack Tor, then potentially any other government or LEA can do it too. That changes the game for millions of people in Iran, Syria, China, etc. They actually have a pretty strong incentive not to crack Tor, or at least suppress all information that they did.
Give me a few thousand dollars and I can trace hidden service :). Feds can for sure. Unless they are exceptionally incompetent. All you need to do is put some nodes on Tor. Then you write a little program that opens connections to hidden services, using the machine it is run on as its own rendezvous point (three hops between it and the hidden service). It sends a stream with a detectable pattern in the packet flow. You just send this once and then immediately close the circuit. Then it does this same thing again and again and again. The nodes you add to the network analyze the traffic passing through them looking for the pattern that you have sent to the hidden service. This causes the hidden service to open a new circuit each time, and each time it uses new final and middle node but the same entry guard nodes. This lets you trace to the hidden services entry guards in a matter of minutes. Then you flood the entry guards with create cells to DOS their CPU. They can no longer route traffic while they are DOSed so the hidden service selects new entry guards to use in the mean time. Rinse and repeat. If you can DOS enough identified entry guards eventually the hidden service selects one of yours and then you have its IP address. It costs a lot more processing power for the entry guards to try and process the create cells, than it does to create them.
If SR has manually overridden Tors default settings to use strict entry guards this will only allow for it to be DOSed but not traced by a purely active attacker. Although once feds have traced to entry guards they can become a passive attacker at one of the entry guards to deanonymize the server. Tor hidden services are not very anonymous, in the grand scheme of things. I certainly would take Tor projects advice, and not rely on Tor for strong anonymity in that specific case. For clients, it is less bad. When it comes to hidden services I really am a big fan of Freenets Freesites. They are less about anonymity per-se and more about extreme censorship resistance via spreading lots of chunks of the site out over a huge network that has no centralized listing of participating nodes. It is more redundancy and censorship resistance than anonymity per-se, but I think that is more the goal for a site like SR. Tor tries to give censorship resistance (but not redundancy) via making it hard to trace the server. Freenet gives censorship resistance and redundancy because there is no centralized server to target, the site is stored across hundreds or thousands of different servers and taking down a subsection of those servers will not take the site down. Also the Freenet servers are not associated with any particular site or any particular content, so there is not the same liability like there is with a Tor hidden service where someone needs to configure a specific server to host a specific site. Tahoe-Lafs is another thing to look into, it also aims to give censorship resistance and redundancy.
But I still prefer Tor for client anonymity, versus Freenet for plausible deniability / anonymity for clients.
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Nice post man, very informative. Even Sunday is a school day it would seem. :)
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honestly what is to stop the government from running there own internet hidden tor network inside tor for their "communications" its highly doubtful they would piggyback the same servers for the most sensitive info, they likely have a system more highly developed for operation than SR and if smart get lots of ideas too for onion anon security.
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honestly what is to stop the government from running there own internet hidden tor network inside tor for their "communications" its highly doubtful they would piggyback the same servers for the most sensitive info, they likely have a system more highly developed for operation than SR and if smart get lots of ideas too for onion anon security.
I strongly suspect that the United States Military does *not* use the standard Tor software nor the standard Tor network. I strongly believe that they run their own Tor nodes, and only make them part of the public Tor network to gain a form of cover traffic. After all, if only the military used military Tor nodes, it wouldn't be very anonymous for them. This is the original reasoning given for why they opened Tor up to the public. However, they neglected to mention that if the military and the public use the military Tor nodes, it will still be anonymous for the military, even if military traffic is processed differently, provided they can avoid leaving any visible fingerprints that could differentiate between the two types of traffic. It is likely that any hidden services they host are behind dozens of Tor nodes that they own themselves. However, their nodes would still be listed on the public Tor network, and would still route traffic for others. Military traffic to these hidden services is also probably processed differently than the rest of the traffic going through their nodes. It is also probably very well camouflaged to make it very difficult if not impossible to distinguish from normal Tor traffic. I don't see the government risking China owning their entry and exit nodes. I also have other reasons to believe that this is true. It is entirely possible that I am just being paranoid though, although I also am certainly not the only person who suspects this to be the case.
An interesting idea that someone else shared with me, is the possibility of using Tor as a covert channel. Imagine a normal Tor node that routes traffic. Let's say it is a hidden service, but not in the standard Tor hidden service sense. I will call this a 'meta hidden service', for lack of a better term. The node routes traffic to other nodes or websites as a normal node would. However, users of the 'meta hidden service' send traffic with specially crafted interpacket arrival characteristics through the node. They could send traffic to and from Google for all that it matters, because it is just cover communications. The real communications are encoded in the interpacket arrival characteristics. The Tor node itself looks for a signature that lets it know a secret message is being transmitted, then it decodes the packet arrival characteristics into the binary message. When the reply traffic comes from Google, it encodes the real reply message into the interpacket arrival characteristics in the reply traffic it sends back to the client. This allows for client anonymity still, but unfortunately the location of the 'meta-hidden-service' would have to be known by the clients. The big advantage here is that to an observer, even one who can see the entire Tor network, it looks like the client is merely surfing Google with a particular Tor node, but really they are communicating with a 'meta hidden service' via a covert channel. Interpacket arrival is just one way to do it.
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What other ones would you recommend?
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As far as toasting the drives go I was not referring to just deleting partitions and wiping to zeros. Magnetic retrieval is usually a success so any drive should be taken apart flip the magnet in it out and damage the sob beyond any kind of retrieval.. In a situation said above I would have a detonator attached to all drives set to explode remotely before the feds enter the fourth floor and to be done before they enter also to ensure no feds are injured or killed. Who wants that charge?
One you would be short on time to do that and two how would you control the blast radius , underground ? Real life scenario this is not.
Does not take much of a blast to destroy a hard drive especially if it is concealed in a vault or hidden blast proof compartment with the ability for the signal to reach to detonator.
Stupid idea is stupid. First of all physical damage to destroy data on a hard drive is a horrible way to go about things unless you plan to entirely melt it or grind it into dust particles. Why not just encrypt it and cut power? More realistic, and far more effective, and no destruction of evidence charges. Maybe contempt of court if you refuse to give up the password, but that is what deniable encryption is for.
As far as Tor goes of course it can be hacked, just in the past 12 months there have been several remote code execution vulnerabilities in it. Pretty much nothing should be considered hack proof unless it has been formally verified.
That encryption can will be probably hacked . Within two weeks or so if it commercial . Unless we have cryptographers on site but that is another factor .
Encryption isn't hacked it is cryptanalyzed. And civilians have access to very strong encryption. Actually, civilians have access to military grade encryption, but the people on SR are not using truly military grade encryption in the overwhelming majority of cases. RSA is no longer approved for information at the secret or top secret levels, ECDH and ECDSA are. The symmetric encryption algorithms people on SR are using are military grade for up to Top Secret but there is a higher level of classification that uses classified encryption algorithms. Also the mode of operation used for symmetric algorithms is not accepted for secret or top secret information even though the algorithms themselves are. But it really doesn't matter because PGP and Truecrypt are both secure, even if they are not military grade. Two weeks is a laugh and a half.
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all governments around the world are wasteful.
if there are activities going on that go against any of the laws in any of these countries, they will dedicate and waste resources to prosecute and incarcerate offenders of said "laws".
Know Your Enemy!
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I am positive that civilians have access to encryption that is approved by the military of the USA for encryption of information up to top secret. There are plenty of ECDH and ECDSA libraries, as well as AES as well as AES in galois/counter mode. These can be used to make encryption systems that are equivalent to ones approved for protecting top secret information. The higher levels of classification are probably using quantum key distribution and/or quantum resistant algorithms.
The only way RSA or ECDH with appropriate key strength will be pwnt is if the attacker has a quantum computer with enough stabilized qubits to run shors algorithm against them.
The only way I can even remotely imagine what you are saying to not be complete bullshit is if they broke the password, or if you happen to have seen people with classified powerful quantum computers that most non-military cryptographers think are still a few years away from being realized. RSA with 1,024 bit keys will be the first to fall to quantum computers, working up to RSA-4,096 bit and beyond. 512 bit ECDH keys are about as secure as 15,000 bit RSA keys so when actual quantum computers that can pwn 4,096 bit RSA exist 512 bit ECDH may still be unbreakable for a while. It turns into a race between key strength and stabilized qubits, but eventually the number of stabilized qubits will be such that it is no longer realistic to protect from quantum computers with non-quantum resistant algorithms. It is also predicted that the rate of stabilized qubits will continue to increase at an accelerating rate.
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Forward secrecy key agreement schemes prevent an attacker who finds a private key from decrypting previous messages, both parties need to use a new key pair for each message, usually algorithms like ECDH are used for this. You do one initial key exchange with ECDSA to have a way to authenticate identity, then every other exchange takes place with a freshly generated ECDH key pair / shared secret. After the message is decrypted the signature can be confirmed. Each message uses a brand new set of public and private keys for both participants, so if a vendor is raided and their most recent key is compromised it will not be useful for decrypting the entire history of messages, as they should be securely overwriting their previous private key with each message exchange. OTR does this automatically for instant message communications
No crypto will protect communications contents from the person you send the communications to though. That is entirely outside the scope of cryptography, rather it is human intelligence.
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It isn't such a small score in absolute terms. ECDH is the clear winner versus RSA, and forward secrecy with ECDH is clearly superior to not having it. You get keys and ciphertexts that are *much* stronger than the equivalent length RSA keys, and with forward secrecy you prevent previous messages from being decrypted if a private key / vendor is compromised. However in a more practical sense, PGP is good enough at higher than 1,024 key sizes and forward secrecy still doesn't protect you if the person you communicate with is compromised or malicious *prior* to you sending them communications (although it does if they are compromised or turn malicious AFTER you have sent them communications)
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my assessment is that each person vendor/buyer needs to devise their disinformation using the known outlets of the known current used LEA tactics.
even if you pgp the other person will have it and have to dispose of it. Do you trust these many people you don''t know to do so?" Some will some won't I don't care. thinking from a human probably for error. \
communicating PGP is to use email without the email servers spying what is in the contents. IM, other forms are evolving in the race for competing system of choice. This ongoing amidst gut wrenching slow rot and misery IRL amongst most cities and rural areas.