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Discussion => Drug safety => Topic started by: Psychonaughty on December 21, 2012, 08:23 pm

Title: Recipe wanted to make Na-GHB without a pan?
Post by: Psychonaughty on December 21, 2012, 08:23 pm
Is there a way of making ghb from gbl without the use of a pan?
Most pans are made of aluminium which is no good.

Are the HDPE bottles ok for this? The reaction with NaOH will become hot and I'm not sure if they can resist that.

Also, what is a good recipe to make ghb?

Want to try with a small amount, like 30ml gbl or 60.
Or an amount that would eventually become at max 1 liter.

There are a thousand recipes. Some use: "half"a glass.. what is that? how much is a glass?
Some say put gbl and naoh in, then slowly add (some say warm... what is warm?) demineralized water.
Some say put water and naoh in, then slowly add gbl. Heat it up but do not let it boil. Why is this needed at all?

Can't I just put some demi-water and naoh in a 1l HPDE bottle? and shake it or whatever? then add gbl?

Most I could do is boil the demi water first but then still put it in something else than an alu pan...

Also, all recipes have different amounts of NaOH for the same amount of gbl and water. Some say tap water is ok. Some say it's very dangerous and unhealthy and you need demineralized.

Help please :P
Title: Re: Recipe wanted to make Na-GHB without a pan?
Post by: Psychonaughty on December 21, 2012, 10:50 pm
geez nobody even reads this.

How can I make ghb without the use of a pan?
Title: Re: Recipe wanted to make Na-GHB without a pan?
Post by: Ballzinator on December 21, 2012, 11:03 pm
Chill, dude. "BlueGiraffe" is a GHB vendor on here who is also active on the forums. He knows EVERYTHING about GHB. He will eventually see this thread and help you. If not, PM him.
Title: Re: Recipe wanted to make Na-GHB without a pan?
Post by: Psychonaughty on December 22, 2012, 12:04 am
Will do so. Thanks a lot for the tip!
Title: Re: Recipe wanted to make Na-GHB without a pan?
Post by: gambino on December 22, 2012, 08:59 am
Use the chem-r-us synth.  Google it.  You'll need a couple beakers, pH paper and a candy thermometer.
Title: Re: Recipe wanted to make Na-GHB without a pan?
Post by: Psychonaughty on December 22, 2012, 07:35 pm
I learned how not to do it:
Measure 400ml demi-water. Put it in the bottle. Measure 130grams NaOH, pour it into the bottle with the demi water.
While mixing the liquid did not become hot. (afterwards I learned that it did not mix.
Then I slowly added 250ml gbl into the bottle. It became warm but nothing really seemed to become Na-GHB.
Then I shaked the bottle.. put the cap on, saw the bottle become bigger and bigger, took the cap off and BOOM! It exploded onto everything in the surrounding. Which is now getting fucked up more and more every day, even though I added water and soap onto those things :(

Wasted 250ml fucking gbl and 130g naoh. The demi water seems to be about the same ph as tap water so I don't understand why I shouldn't just use that. Way easier and cheaper...

I'll search for the recipe you suggested.

Now I have some left, perhaps 50ml of... I dont know what. Looks pretty yellow. So I'm guessing some gbl, demi water and too much naoh.

Added some tap water (about 200ml), and gbl(about 125ml) and naoh to it (90 grams per accident) and it has a ph of >14.
Using vinegar or lemon juice seems silly for the taste.
More gbl now, or more water?


Title: Re: Recipe wanted to make Na-GHB without a pan?
Post by: gambino on December 22, 2012, 09:23 pm
Dude, are you serious?  I really hope you're trolling, but sadly I fear you are not.  You need to either stop trying to do drug chemistry or learn a lot more before trying again.  The way you are going, someone is bound to get hurt.  I seriously hope you are not intending to give or sell this to anyone else.

I would not try to salvage the mess you are in by wasting more good GBL.  I would throw it away.  Whatever you do, don't consume anything that's not near pH neutral, say in the range of pH 6-8.  If you do decide to waste more GBL, don't add more than 5-10 mL at a time, with stirring, checking the pH after each addition.

BTW, you can consume the GBL, so there is no need for you to make NaGHB.  Mix 1-2 mL of GBL in a shot glass with half water and half of that lemon juice to mask the taste.  Wash it down with your favorite beverage.

Be careful and good luck.
Title: Re: Recipe wanted to make Na-GHB without a pan?
Post by: Psychonaughty on December 23, 2012, 03:52 am
Eh, thx for your concern.

I wrote the following in return. But now I'm confused.
What should I do now? There is about 100g NaOH in 1 1000ml hpde bottle together with h20. I mixed that slowly so the bottle would not become too hot to hold with my hands.
Then I slowly added gbl in portions of 25ml. Somewhere around 125ml. Did not check pH now yet.
There was still about 50ml yellow liquid in the bottle. Which looked like when I made an attempt at making ghb in a alu pan when I added 120ml gbl + 36g NaOH. Then slowly added 1250ml of distilled water and heated it until it started boiling and then put it on a low flame for about 30 minutes.

Ph is about 9 now. Should I still heat it? Throw it away? Add more gbl or water?


What I wrote:

Of course I measure the pH.
"By smelling GHB liquids it is possible to tell whether there is unreacted lactone in the solution. The primary indicator used to determine if the reaction is complete and useable is pH. The pH of safe liquids are generally between pH 6 and 8. Home chemists use pH papers to test the acidity/alkalinity of their products and then use more NaOH or a little lemon juice or vinegar (acetic acid) to adjust the pH to between 7 and 8. Some chemists say that it is best to keep the acididity of their liquid GHB nearer 8 in order to keep the lactone from 'coming back out of solution'."

So I'm going for between 7 and 8 probably. I will NOT add lemon juice or vinegar because that will make it more disgusting.

I've read tons of info on both gbl and ghb and have experience with them.
Gbl gets converted to ghb in your body and works quicker. But it is less healthy.

"I would not try to salvage the mess you are in by wasting more good GBL.  I would throw it away.  Whatever you do, don't consume anything that's not near pH neutral, say in the range of pH 6-8.  If you do decide to waste more GBL, don't add more than 5-10 mL at a time, with stirring, checking the pH after each addition."

Most is gone, the rest I can still use. Throwing that away would be a waste. Don't consume anything that is not pH neutral?
A lot of beverages are not pH "neutral". 5-10ml is being VERY careful. You forgot to mention that you need to wait about half an hour so it can mix into the solution. And that you should only check the pH when it's at room temperature.

I once tried a recipe with: add gbl and NaOH in a pan. Then slowly add water. Well that worked out very bad.

Trust me, a lot of vendors just use aluminium pans, non pyrex measuring stuff, stirr with an aluminium spoon instead of using a special NaOH spoon or something that's correct to use. This way harmful material gets into the final ghb product. They then sell it with wrong amount of grams of ghb in it, or tell you it's made from 99,9% pure basf, while it's made with some <99, sometimes even 85% chinese gbl with lots of heavy metals in it. (not all chinese gbl is like that though).
Or they just use tap water, and also make a ph neutral solution and then will, for example, 600ml up to 1liter with water.

The substances themselves heat up, and if you do it too fast like I did, it can boil. In a pan with a lid that's no problem (if it's a non alu pan, otherwise you might get even more unhealthy products in your ghb). In a bottle there is too little room for the steam to go out so it goes insane. Mine also fell over which made it even worse. But I don't even want to know how things would be if I didn't take the cap off. I think the bottle would explode.

So, with reading and reasoning I thought using the bottle I used was good enough. And it was, I just did it too fast and it ended very badly and costly.

2nd experiment went fine. And I almost have Na-GHB now. Just need to lower the ph with 1 or 1.5 and then it will be perfect.
There will be no heavy metals in it because its unconsumable fake gbl shit and there will be no material in it by using aluminium equipement and non pyrex measurement things.
I still need to check on what happens to these quality bottles at what temperatures. My bet is probably nothing. But I want to be a 100% sure first. So that it's very high grade ghb.
Then it sucks I do not have the right pans, or even better, oven scales. So I can't make powder until I have that stuff.
I can still let it solidify more by letting it mix with air. Perhaps put the bottle in warm water.
The question is what I want. It's very salty and you need to drink a lot of liquid (water) in order to put a lot less stress on your kidneys. But I think evaporating the water would be a good idea. If somebody wants to drink it in some juice, it would not be cool to have a lot of water mixed in with it at the same time.

You can not JUST use gbl like you said. I would never drink it in a pure form. I would combine it with something more acidic to lower the pH of the gbl. Like with a lot of tap water. Or something acidic like certain juices, or cola.
And most importantly: use A LOT LESS than with GHB.

I'm not a vendor, but I do know one and let that vendor sell the stuff. Or even the gbl. And then not sell it for 100x the actual price and claim it's 99,9% pure and basf, with 0.1% water or something. That can not even be true because basf stopped shipping at some point and their documents say it's 99.9x pure. And exactly what other materials are in it. And trust me: basf does not contain 0.1% water.

Oh yeah, and most basf sellers sell expired gbl. I checked that jennifer or what was her name chicks name?
Insane prices. And who knows what it really is? (how) can she prove that? Is it expired or not?
Usually doesn't matter for most people because after converting it to GHB you can manipulate a bit for a better taste.
You'd have to know and smelled all of the gbl kinds and looked at the color/try it out on material that should or should not be affected by it....

HPDE bottles can resist almost anything (except for boiling and producing a lot of gas). So if I can confirm that this is a good method, than it's a lot easier than when you need to use a pan and buy an expensive one for it.
You can even make it anywhere you want, without gas or electricity, just gbl, demiwater, naoh or koh, measuring scale and pyrex cup + a spoon, one from wood for example.


I still wonder about dissolving the water. I think it affects the expiration date a lot.

"Dude, are you serious?  I really hope you're trolling, but sadly I fear you are not.  You need to either stop trying to do drug chemistry or learn a lot more before trying again.  The way you are going, someone is bound to get hurt.  I seriously hope you are not intending to give or sell this to anyone else."

Wow, I did one experiment and immediately I need to stop "trying" chemistry or learn a lot. Do you know me IRL or something? Don't think so.
Someone could have been hurt if the bottle cap wasn't screwed off very quickly while wearing protective gear. Unfortunately someTHINGS were affected. Lesson learned.
Now I need to confirm a few things (like if heating hdpe causes other materials to get into the ghb. And if there is a significant difference between the less times it needs to go into something else, again.

From gbl bottle to pyrex cup to pan to oven scale etc. With aluminum products that's a really bad idea.
Some vendors ship them in the plastic from empty products. Not HDPE, not LDPE, not even near it. Then you will end up getting very negatively affected GHB. But since it works in about the same dosages you think it's good ghb.
GHB can be qualitatively good and quantitively good, but also healthwise.
And there are options: would you prefer a more solid version? Perhaps to put in a capsule or because you can drink it faster?
If it's very solid: some will remain in the bottle and you lose a ml or so so then you have to try to get it all out by filling the 5ml tube again with water, etc.
Same with gbl, some want to put 1-2ml in lemon juice and shot it. Others prefer it in a full glass of cola, with occasional stirring...
Best with gbl would be to use a ratio of at least 1:5 and then drink a lot of water after it...

"BTW, you can consume the GBL, so there is no need for you to make NaGHB.  Mix 1-2 mL of GBL in a shot glass with half water and half of that lemon juice to mask the taste.  Wash it down with your favorite beverage."

I already commented on this: yes there is the need to make NaGHB because of certain reasons. Besides, it's less bad for your body.
Spilling a bit would be less bad, and not so harmful for your skin or anything that touches it.
Not totally sure about the difference between NaGHB and KoHGHB. The latter needs more salt. I've read the effects were a lot cleaner. But I do not know what the definition of that person is for a lot cleaner. Plus NaGHB is stronger. (makes sense, need more salt with koh, which means more volume, which means less effect with same amount..). The difference also depends on what is better for your body as salt.

This is a long message. But I felt offended. If things are how I think they are now, this is an ideal way of making GHB,
No need for a heat bath and stuff, because if you close the bottle it will remain heated, which will make the solution go better.
No boiling, no need to wash pan and measurement cup (if you can weight, have different ml types of bottles or can eyeball really well), no need for a stirring thing.

It's almost good as it is at this moment. I can choose to add water, make the dose per ml less as well, or add a lesser amount of gbl and have a higher amount of ghb grams per 5ml tube.

Perhaps there even are vendors that just put some crap gbl in a bottle and add water.
Takes no time to make, no need for any equipment and people might even think it's really good because it works so quickly.

Every gbl or ghb seller say their product is 99.9% pure, which is quite impossible unless they know how to make gbl.
Most of that is bullshit. Luckily experienced users can notice/smell/feel the differences.

We'll see how this goes. Might let the vendor sell it and hear the feedback.
At least it will not have expired and be pH neutral ;)

Now after telling me what to do, semi-accusing me of trolling, giving bad advice, making suggestions out of the blue and offending me, you will then have to place an order to make it right ;)

Sometime later: Did my research. It's fine when it is being exothermic. As long as it doesn't become hotter than 120 °C for short periods, 110 °C continuously.
It DID boil for a short time. GBL boils 204 °C, or 399 °F and there was 250ml of it in the solution which is about 282,15grams. Then there was 400ml distilled water in it which boils at 100 C, or at least, I assume that distilled water boils at the same amount of C. 400ml water= 400grams.
Then there was 135 grams NaOH which boils at 1000+ C
The first time when I added NaOH to GBL, nothing happened. Perhaps I used too little NaOH then and they do react?

So the question is, was it a Na-GHB already when it started boiling? What was boiling? The water, the gbl, or also the naoh? What was the real temperature?
I did not make sure that the water was completely mixed with the NaOH then. So perhaps it started boiling when the NaOH started really reacting with the water AND the added ghb.
If it passed the 120 C then there might be some carbon and hydrogen in the ~50ml what is left of the whole gear. These are not very harmful. Hydrogen is non toxic. So if it didn't splash out everywhere, then I would still have Na-GHB with healthy water in a healthy ratio of water and NaOH. Made by basf with a real certificate. It would still be A LOT better than what is quickly made with chineze bad quality heavy metal gbl put into an aluminum pan to add some more toxic materials and is then sold as high quality ghb and put into what kind of storage material? Perhaps one that reacts badly with ghb.

At this moment I can not find what materials get into the solution when you use gbl in an aluminum pan. But I remember it being toxic materials.










Title: Re: Recipe wanted to make Na-GHB without a pan?
Post by: BlueGiraffe on December 23, 2012, 10:51 pm
With respect...

And no criticism of the principle of experimenting...

BUT...  It is clear that you don't have a chemistry background and that you haven't done enough reading regarding this synth.

Because GHB is, in essence, a simple one stage synth with some adjustments, many non-chemists "have a crack at it", and this is one of the reasons for so much dodgy GHB floating around. And is why people have had bad experiences from it. And is why GHB gets a bad rap sometimes. It's not GHB that's the issue per se, but rather the half-made, weird "GHB" made by amateur chemists. I don't mean to criticize, I'm just pointing this out.

I have done the synth personally once many years ago (I am not a chemist) - glass reaction vessel, reflux condenser, careful temperature control, pH adjustment with HCL etc. And because I had worked out the synth very carefully on paper first, I got it right the first time.

Since then, and for our commercial production, we have had a Ph.D analytical chemist design the finer details of the synth (maybe overkill - but I like it that way), and we have a dedicated production lab run by a professional chemist producing it. The GHB that comes out of this lab is better than anything else around, and most importantly it is better than the original synth that I apparently got 100% right. And that was something for me to learn and understand.

I would not be able to give you the finer points on actual production because I am not a chemist, and also I would not want to take on that responsibility. By all means continue experimenting, but I will say that I feel you need to get more serious with it before someone gets hurt. And everything in borosilicate glass please - not fucking HDPE :)

You are correct that GBL should NEVER be ingested as is. Yes it will bio-convert to GHB, but it will stress the fuck out of your liver and kidneys while doing that. It's just a bad idea. GBL only became interesting when GHB itself became hard to acquire. It is not hard to acquire anymore, so everyone can stop poisoning themselves with GBL now!

Sorry I can't be of more specific technical help, and good luck if you continue experimenting.

BG

Title: Re: Recipe wanted to make Na-GHB without a pan?
Post by: Virmo on January 07, 2013, 01:42 pm
You changed your message to a more kind one.

We've done our research by now, had access to a lab and chemists to help out.

"By all means continue experimenting, but I will say that I feel you need to get more serious with it before someone gets hurt. And everything in borosilicate glass please - not fucking HDPE "

Partly I understand why not HDPE, but I'd like your arguments for it, please?
It is most definitely possible to make Na-GHB in HDPE. There are some issues that make this not a preferred method. Like you, I will keep my arguments to myself.

"GBL only became interesting when GHB itself became hard to acquire. It is not hard to acquire anymore, so everyone can stop poisoning themselves with GBL now!"

True, if you are willing to waste your money by buying overpriced products. And only if you know the right people IRL, or know about SR.
And on SR there are quite a bunch of vendors who sell poisonous GHB. People can send it to "simple" labs and the results will be: yes it is n or k ghb. But they will not hear if there is any poisonous products in it.

The chems-r-us from erowid.. If I remember correctly, that is a method which is not suited to produce "healthy" ghb.
In fact I am amazed by how little "correct" info there is on s website like erowid on hoe to synthesize ghb the "right" way.

I regret ever using ghb in the past before I know the ins and outs. Putting some gbl into something like cola would be less bad.
A lot of vendors do not use the right materials and use the wrong plastics for transportation.

"The GHB that comes out of this lab is better than anything else around, and most importantly it is better than the original synth that I apparently got 100% right. And that was something for me to learn and understand."

How could you possibly know that? Do you know ALL the people producing ghb? Do you even know for 100% sure that your gbl is 100% ok?
You sell powder. Are you 100% sure that your ethanol is ok? It's hard/impossible to get 100% pure ethanol. You'd better not use anything with methsanol or MKE in it...

It sounds like you are legit though. And that you kind of know what you are talking about. But at the same time not really, otherwise you could be of technicsl help without a problem.

@gambino: "Dude, are you serious?  I really hope you're trolling, but sadly I fear you are not.  You need to either stop trying to do drug chemistry or learn a lot more before trying again.  The way you are going, someone is bound to get hurt.  I seriously hope you are not intending to give or sell this to anyone else.

I would not try to salvage the mess you are in by wasting more good GBL.  I would throw it away.  Whatever you do, don't consume anything that's not near pH neutral, say in the range of pH 6-8.  If you do decide to waste more GBL, don't add more than 5-10 mL at a time, with stirring, checking the pH after each addition.

BTW, you can consume the GBL, so there is no need for you to make NaGHB.  Mix 1-2 mL of GBL in a shot glass with half water and half of that lemon juice to mask the taste.  Wash it down with your favorite beverage.

Be careful and good luck."

Awful recommendation for how to take gbl...
Range of 7-8 would be more like it.
Why not salvage? Throwing away is a pure waste. A better idea is to vhevk if there are any poisonous by products made in the process. 5-10ml is being over precautious IMO.

To answer the question of this thread: use pyrex glas.. You can make it in an hdpe bottle and still sell less poisonous ghb than what;s on SR.

To all the people reading this and ordering lots of GHB off SR: be careful. Read into it and don't let yourself poison yourself!

Now time for a commercial break:
http://silkroadvb5piz3r.onion/silkroad/user/1d33bc3262

People recommend jennifers. But she is not totally honest about her products. 99,99% pure basf my ass.
There is a verrrrry slight chance that that's not a lie. But basf won't commend on that.
So if there is such a think as 100% 99,99% pure basf, then it is expired stuff. All that is left is 99,99* basf and that the expiration date is somewhere in 2013...

But, as had been proven over and over. It's better to lie/ignore/be fake than to be honest and open on SR.
Also: overprice your products, otherwise it will be considered fake or of bad quality.
People don't even test what they get.

Oh and about the best GHB around.. then how come I was able to synth Na-GHB that will make anyone pass out after if, even those who have a  ave a high tolersnce to Ns-GHB, amd 3-4 5ml visald or more to psss out?
Going to try to make powder in the future, then we can compare bluegiraffe ;)

Once again: http://silkroadvb5piz3r.onion/silkroad/user/1d33bc3262