Silk Road forums

Discussion => Drug safety => Topic started by: CherryYidaki on October 15, 2012, 05:38 pm

Title: MDMA Topamax, Welbutrin interaction question. Also, newbie dosage question.
Post by: CherryYidaki on October 15, 2012, 05:38 pm
So, I got my first gram of MDMA delivered a couple of days ago.  Tan and sandy from UnderGround Syndicate, it's been getting good reviews and I expect my first roll to be memorable. 

In doing my due diligence on the drug I found reference to anecdotal evidence that people on Topamax and/or Welbutrin find their MDMA experiences to be muted or completely negated.  Does anyone here have experience to confirm or deny - or shed more light - on that information? 

To be on the "safe" side I'm considering discontinuing my prescriped Topamax and Welbutrin for a week before trying the MDMA. 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now, as for dosing - how much does body mass influence the effect of MDMA?   Is a 350 pound guy going to get the same roll from the same dose as a 180 pound one?

And lastly, if one wants to dose not so much for a "Good time," but more for insight and  therapeutic reasons, would one want a lesser dose or a heavier one?  I've seen 125 mg pharmaceutical grade MDMA being called the standard dose for therapist sessions where the patients are working through some profound mental trauma, like rape, PTSD, child abuse, etc.  That seems kind of high, but maybe that's because of the seriousness of the issues being faced.  I just want to gain some inner calm, insights,  and clarity, I think.  From what I've heard/read about MDMA I think it would help me accomplish some of that.  I'm also hoping I can get the wife to try it with me and get some of that bonding/loving zippity-do-da that the drug is so famous for.

Thanks in advance for any help and advice.
Title: Re: MDMA Topamax, Welbutrin interaction question. Also, newbie dosage question.
Post by: stupidgirl on October 15, 2012, 07:31 pm
From my experience as a recreational user, I would say that the "therapeutic" sessions are the same as a "good time" session because you need to feel the effects of the drug to use them therapeutically. Also, I find it impossible not to have a good time with quality product :)

I recommend starting off with about 125mg and if it is not enough, then take about 75mg more. However, I would give yourself at least an hour until you take more.

Also, I would recommend convincing your wife to join you. It will be one of the most loving experiences and unforgettable experiences of both of your lives.

Enjoy your time because there is nothing like your first few rolls!
Title: Re: MDMA Topamax, Welbutrin interaction question. Also, newbie dosage question.
Post by: microRNA on October 15, 2012, 10:49 pm
there are mixed reports i think it depends on the individual, many find they are still able to enjoy mdma on buproprion or topiramate from what i can find

first, most of the anti-dep that negate the effects of mdma are ssris... since buproprion is a dopamine and norep reuptake inhibitor i think much of the serotonergic effects of mdma should still be present which is responsible for a large portion of the positive mood. some say it has muted the effects, especially probably the stimulant effects, which may partially be due to the dopaminergic receptor down-reg and downstream effects on serotonin could potentially reduce the "happy" mood push

i really dont think its the best decision to stop your medicine... id would say first try mdma using your meds as normal especially since you have plenty to spare, then if you dont get the effect you are looking for, wait a month and take a couple days off the bup and try again. evidently bup is easy to take a few days off and not as serious in terms of dependence as some of the ssris, but be aware no meds like that should be stopped abruptly because they may lead to withdrawal symptoms especially if you use high doses

i know less about topiramate but if you take it as an anti-convulsant definitely dont stop taking it before using mdma which may potentially reduce the seizure threshold. i dont see any pharmacological reason why it should prevent mdma from working and dont know of any dangerous interactions

ive found the best doses are around 125 mg of good quality molly without being too over-powering but if you have a larger body mass you will need more, hard to say how much exactly. maybe try around 160 mg to start for a strong experience. if you just want mild effects start with around 85-100 mg but then you may be disappointed, plus a higher dose will help push through any muting from the bup and top if present

i also recommend you dont take it alone, but definitely would be the best experience if you can share it with your partner in the same state of mind, and can provide wonderful bonding as you mention

if you are looking for real clarity and introspection, i think a true psychedelic would be more helpful than mdma imo
Title: Re: MDMA Topamax, Welbutrin interaction question. Also, newbie dosage question.
Post by: CherryYidaki on October 16, 2012, 03:34 am
The idea of staying on my meds and just giving it a try seems pretty sensible.  I think I will do nthat and see where it takes me.  Thanks for the dosing advice as well.

I've very carefully engaged my wife in discussion about MDMA and why I've purchased and want to use it.  I've told her how much I hope it's an experience we can share together, but haven't tried to pressure her at all.  Right now the plan is that I'll try it with her standing by for observation and support.  We've been together for almost 35 years, now, so I think, given time, she'll follow along when she sees me having fun.  That's sort of been our dynamic in the past.  :)
Title: Re: MDMA Topamax, Welbutrin interaction question. Also, newbie dosage question.
Post by: CherryYidaki on October 16, 2012, 03:40 pm

Quote
if you are looking for real clarity and introspection, i think a true psychedelic would be more helpful than mdma imo


Any recommendations in that department?  And really, thank you a lot for your considered response to my questions above.

Not to get too corny or gushy, but I have to say it is so great to find this venue: SR with its pharmacological cornucopia and bounty, coupled with the forums and their rich intermixing of egos and knowledge and laughter and angst and most of all - compassion.  Deep breaths.   
Title: Re: MDMA Topamax, Welbutrin interaction question. Also, newbie dosage question.
Post by: microRNA on October 16, 2012, 05:09 pm
it could be different for others, so some may disagree with me. but i find mdma to be an extremely strong positive mood "push" that feels incredibly unnatural - meaning it will force you into this cheerful euphoric state even if you arent supposed to be happy, and its more of an extroverted experience... where you can connect with others more easily. obviously they are using it in therapy with benefits but i think it may have to do with being able to open up more easily and share with the therapist without as much concern of judgement in addition to dealing with hard situations without actually having to face them with a full range of painful emotions

for me, in a very opposite manner psychedelics just obliterate everything you are accustomed to, leaving you ungrounded and more open to new experiences, while turning your thoughts inward in a more introspective manner... thought patterns change drastically, you interpret differently and notice things in a new way you never before were able to see them - which can give you insight into your life like nothing else ever could. not only that, but its like cranking up the volume on your emotions, so if you are dealing with any issues you are going to face them head on with a new understanding hopefully. one will be able to look at the entire universe and life in general from a new perspective - its like seeing the world from a new set of eyes without the years of routine and monotony, without the assumptions we take for granted and complex beauty we simply overlook everyday, which to me is true "clarity," seeing things how they actually are... so it can be a great tool if used properly - it can be spiritual, therapeutic, or just rejuvenating if you prepare yourself correctly and use in the right setting. - definitely great for insights, clarity and inner calm if you bring yourself to be at peace using the experience

to me mdma is just for a good time, makes me extremely edgy and not peaceful, it FORCES a positive experience upon you, but to me thats a false veil and not true "clarity" while psychedelics are more useful for really digging around in your mind and experiencing without the filters of perception but you must be ready to handle whatever it throws at you, and just go with it... its not all happy and joyful necessarily although it certainly can be. theres no escape so you just have to deal with whatever you are feeling, but sometimes people cant handle the experience - so people need to respect psychedelics much more than mdma imo.

 i dont really know if any of that made much sense cause its so hard to explain unless youve experienced tripping and trying to work through personal issues (like my anxiety). its just as much about preparation, mindset and setting than anything though too. the drug is just a catalyst but its up to the individual to direct the experience in the right direction

the classical psychedelic i would recommend is definitely LSD. actually mescaline too if you can obtain it but that can be a rougher (and yet more beautiful) trip. there are some like 2c-b that somewhat blend the effects of mdma and psychedelics which may be good for a first experience especially. havent tried the nbome series yet but they seem to be popular as well. dont know if id recommend shrooms cause they can be dark and uncomfortable sometimes especially in the beginning, so i find lsd to be a more enjoyable experience personally plus its long enough to spend time just getting used to, and enjoying, the novelty of the trip at first during the gradual climb into the trip and then focusing more on being introspective before the effects wear off too much. plus lsd is one of the safest drugs ever, so there shouldnt be any concern regarding ones safety while tripping which isnt necessarily true for the new RCs
Title: Re: MDMA Topamax, Welbutrin interaction question. Also, newbie dosage question.
Post by: CherryYidaki on October 17, 2012, 09:10 am
Nothing like the voice of experience when coupled with an intelligent mind and compassionate heart.  That is a lot of good information and lucid explanation.  I appreciate it very much.

I do, to some extent, crave that "enforced joy" that MDMA is said to promote as well as the feelings of oneness and amity-with-all I read about.  Sort of a hippy version of satori is what I'm imagining.  That would be cool - and fun to experience with my wife.

But, really, as you intimated, I want to find a way to really examine my many character flaws without flinching away.  And of course, find a way to correct, minimize or learn to accept without further guilt those things.

The LSD idea is attractive because it looks like you can get very clean, fairly-accurate-dosage samples here.  I remember all the old horror stories about LSD trips gone wrong where people supposedly gouged out their own eyeballs, jumped off buildings trying to fly or stared at the sun until they fried their retinas.  As I understand it, a big part of the bizarre incidents back then was due to "dirty" acid. 

LSD also seems less likely than MDMA to have an adverse affect on me- or a bad interaction with one of my many prescription meds.  I have renal, cardiac and hypertension issues that MDMA has the potential to exacerbate.  I kind of decided to risk it anyway because... you only live once, eh?  And it sounds like a "Bucket List" experience.

The Bucket List argument could apply to LSD as well.  In fact the only trepidation I have with trying a psychedelic - and LSD in particular - is that there is no way I could get my wife to get on board with even having me order the stuff.  She would not be there to "sit" with me, and there's really no one else I could ask.

So, I have to consider how comfortable I am with the idea of giving that a shot with only a couple Jack Russel terriers for company.  heh

Title: Re: MDMA Topamax, Welbutrin interaction question. Also, newbie dosage question.
Post by: microRNA on October 17, 2012, 10:24 pm
Glad you found my overly wordy explanation of some interest, heres another driven by experience and compassion :)

I hate to say this, but given your heart condition and hypertension i really think you should reconsider the decision to take mdma. I think it could potentially be very dangerous given the strong adrenergic component of mdma resulting in autonomic nervous system activation leading to increased heart rate and hypertension in normal individuals, let alone those with already present conditions to exacerbate. imo the mdma experience is definitely not one worth risking your life over. unfortunately i think the risks outweigh the benefits.

I dont know if psychedelics are particularly a good idea either, but they would be safer than mdma. Lsd has much less effect on adrenergic receptors, although it can increase heart rate slightly but nothing like mdma ime and doesnt produce the same increase in blood pressure.
Lsd will definitely also produce some euphoria and that "feeling of oneness" you seem to be looking to experience. imo the risk/benefit ratio is much greater with lsd - at least it is an experience likely to be life changing or at a minimum very interesting and rewarding, rather than just unnatural manic euphoria... it seems to be most fitting for what you are hoping to get out of the experience from what youve said.

you should talk to your wife, if she was tolerant of you using mdma, there is absolutely no logical reason she should have an issue with lsd. comparatively lsd is much safer, the toxicity to dose ratios dont even compare... mdma is even at least slightly neurotoxic and potentially addictive while lsd is not even remotely. those stories you mention are all fueled by the stigma of psychedelics and falsely portrayed through media scare tactics. people can have bad trips but often its because they used excessive doses in idiotic settings that are not safe to be in such an altered state of mind. people need to be in the right mindset and comfortable secure surroundings  - not overdosed without their knowledge in public like sometimes occurred in the early days which can easily lead to bad trips. there are some individuals who just dont react well though, so it is very important to have a sitter if you are not accustomed to the effects. dont try using alone your first time to be safe and make sure you start with reasonable doses. its really not that scary or as bad as the anti-drug media makes it sound as long as you use it responsibly. i think you should do some research and try to explain the facts to your wife to overcome her illogical acceptance of mdma and opposition of lsd, likely due to a misunderstanding from inaccurate representation previously...