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Discussion => Drug safety => Topic started by: yovvit on March 07, 2012, 04:28 pm

Title: MDMA or 2-cb for a first timer?
Post by: yovvit on March 07, 2012, 04:28 pm
inexperienced with either of these drugs, I've got a party soon and I don't know which of these to take. They're both relatively cheap so...
What do you guys think?

cheers,
yovvit.
Title: Re: MDMA or 2-cb for a first timer?
Post by: Appa on March 07, 2012, 04:51 pm
MDMA and 2C-B are not really comparable, experience-wise.  MDMA will cause you to "roll," meaning that you'll probably feel very energetic and euphoric, won't mind dancing and talking all night.  2C-B will cause you to "trip," which means you will probably think very differently than normal, as well as have sensory distortions (hallucinations).  2C-B is a particularly visual chemical (think "oh shit, everything is a cartoooooon!"), so as awesome as it is, I don't at all consider it a party drug.  MDMA, however, is the ultimate party drug in my opinion.

Here are a couple of links (clearnet) to get your started.  Do lots of research before ingesting new chemicals.
www.erowid.org/chemicals/2cb/2cb.shtml
www.erowid.org/chemicals/mdma/mdma.shtml
Title: Re: MDMA or 2-cb for a first timer?
Post by: yovvit on March 07, 2012, 06:26 pm
thanks for the reply Appa.
I do know the difference between rolling and tripping, but I heard that 2-cb, while a psychedelic, also has energetic qualities similar to MDMA.. hence it IS a party drug, clearly my source was wrong. But that's just what I heard, so I'll take your word for it and go with MDMA :)
thanks again.
Title: Re: MDMA or 2-cb for a first timer?
Post by: tordemon on March 07, 2012, 06:42 pm
thanks for the reply Appa.
I do know the difference between rolling and tripping, but I heard that 2-cb, while a psychedelic, also has energetic qualities similar to MDMA.. hence it IS a party drug, clearly my source was wrong. But that's just what I heard, so I'll take your word for it and go with MDMA :)
thanks again.
People I've talked to about it that have taken both have said that both are great for parties. I'm taking 2cb this weekend (as a psych, not at a party), but I'm not expecting it to be as introspective as the others, considering its popularity at raves and such. From my experience I wouldn't think MDMA would be a really great party drug, either, but I suppose it would be better than 2cb.
Title: Re: MDMA or 2-cb for a first timer?
Post by: yovvit on March 07, 2012, 06:50 pm
that's interesting tordemon, why isn't MDMA a great party drug from your experience?
Title: Re: MDMA or 2-cb for a first timer?
Post by: Appa on March 07, 2012, 09:41 pm
Yes, 2C-B does have energetic qualities, which I guess it's fair to compare to MDMA in some ways.  They're both phenethylamines.  Despite this, the heavy visual distortion that comes with 2C-B would make standard socializing difficult for me until perhaps a bit after the peak of the trip, whereas MDMA is, in my view, one of the ultimate social lubricants.  I find it more empathetic and less distracting.  However, a low dose (~10 mg) of 2C-B probably wouldn't induce many visuals, and could make a good party drug.  It is somewhat popular in the rave culture, often because it's passed off as MDMA.

Both chemicals are worth experiencing, I just consider MDMA to be a bit more social (unless most everyone you're hanging out with is also tripping on 2C-B, in which case it's often amazing).  I hope you have a great time!
Title: Re: MDMA or 2-cb for a first timer?
Post by: yovvit on March 07, 2012, 09:58 pm
thanks for the info Appa, I think I'll go with MDMA :D
Title: Re: MDMA or 2-cb for a first timer?
Post by: tordemon on March 07, 2012, 10:31 pm
that's interesting tordemon, why isn't MDMA a great party drug from your experience?
Well, when I think of the effects people usually talk about they enjoy about taking ecstasy for parties, at least in the people I know, it usually lines up more with the less "lovey" stimulants, ie meth or amphetamine. I'm cool with them taking those; I just wish they would admit that that's what they were looking for. I usually associate MDMA more with allowing more candid level-headed introspection, and at parties I get this (perhaps silly) feeling that I'm bastardizing the chemical.

2C-B is also somewhat famous for great sex, and in the 7mg range I can personally confirm that the sex is absolutely amazing. =] If you think you have a high probability of fucking somebody, I would recommend the relatively low-dose 2C-B that Appa mentioned, but otherwise I still think MDMA would be more appropriate for a party setting than 2C-B.
Title: Re: MDMA or 2-cb for a first timer?
Post by: Appa on March 07, 2012, 11:04 pm
Well, when I think of the effects people usually talk about they enjoy about taking ecstasy for parties, at least in the people I know, it usually lines up more with the less "lovey" stimulants, ie meth or amphetamine. I'm cool with them taking those; I just wish they would admit that that's what they were looking for. I usually associate MDMA more with allowing more candid level-headed introspection, and at parties I get this (perhaps silly) feeling that I'm bastardizing the chemical.

2C-B is also somewhat famous for great sex, and in the 7mg range I can personally confirm that the sex is absolutely amazing. =] If you think you have a high probability of fucking somebody, I would recommend the relatively low-dose 2C-B that Appa mentioned, but otherwise I still think MDMA would be more appropriate for a party setting than 2C-B.
See that's interesting to me, because most people I know consider MDMA to be extremely "lovey."  In fact, it's the standard empathogen by which other empathogens are judged.  More here (clearnet): en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empathogen

I have never taken such a low 2C-B dose, but with a recommendation like that I sure will! :D Thanks for the tip, tordemon.
Title: Re: MDMA or 2-cb for a first timer?
Post by: l1llykins on March 07, 2012, 11:14 pm
MDMA is good at making you want to have sex and you might be more open about it, but it's not very good for the act itself. At least I know I can get really focused on touching and wanting to be touched (though mostly in non-sexual places, lol).

What does 2-CB do for you? I get a lot of adjectives when I ask but rarely any specifics.
Title: Re: MDMA or 2-cb for a first timer?
Post by: Bob Arctor on March 08, 2012, 08:30 am
I would go with mdma. you will have a great time for sure. I don't feel too social on 2c-b, just laugh at anything..
Title: Re: MDMA or 2-cb for a first timer?
Post by: whirlwind on March 08, 2012, 09:27 am
I smiled when I saw this question. Just tried 2cb (from greenPEAS - 17mg oral + ~7mg insuffulated after an hour or so) and it was not what I was lead to believe it would be. Personally I found myself even more comfortable than I am with MDMA. No crazy mind bending or uncontrollable visuals at this dose for me. Some nice distortions, and a damn incredible feeling of openness. That was me though, and everyone responds differently!

MDMA is not that much of a  party drug as others are saying. The pills the high school kiddies get are usually cut with plenty of speed or some other junk and people are really shocked at how relaxing and calm MDMA can be is by itself.

As with every other drug: SET AND SETTING!

Godspeed on your travels!
Title: Re: MDMA or 2-cb for a first timer?
Post by: tordemon on March 08, 2012, 07:55 pm
MDMA is not that much of a  party drug as others are saying. The pills the high school kiddies get are usually cut with plenty of speed or some other junk and people are really shocked at how relaxing and calm MDMA can be is by itself.

This is what I was trying to say, though I don't think I was exactly clear about it. I usually think it's best when everybody takes the same thing, though...
Title: BOTH!!
Post by: TheEmporium on March 09, 2012, 02:33 am
2CB puts a lovely edge on pretty much anything.  1:9 ratio with 180mg MDMA and 20mg 2CB is just amazing
Title: Re: MDMA or 2-cb for a first timer?
Post by: Gigles on March 09, 2012, 06:44 am
MDMA for me is the ultimate party drug, you can't beat the euphoria and love it produces. But it is not something I wish to indulge in more than a few times a year because of the known neurotoxic effects.

So 2CB has actually become my go-to drug for most parties/raves/festivals etc. With the right dose, it can be the perfect psychedelic party drug. It's very easy for me to handle but makes the music & lights look/sound so amazing and gives me enough energy to dance throughout the night and has little to no comedown/next day aftereffects. In the right setting it can have very strong empathogenic effects as well. I like to do 2-3 lines of ~8-10mg spaced throughout the night.

I can also confirm sex on 2CB is absolutely amazing! Two weekends ago my boyfriend was rolling while I was on a moderate dose of 2CB and we had the most intense sex ever. 2CB does not impede erection like MDMA can sometimes.:)
Title: Re: MDMA or 2-cb for a first timer?
Post by: foxymeow on March 09, 2012, 07:42 am
MDMA for me is the ultimate party drug, you can't beat the euphoria and love it produces. But it is not something I wish to indulge in more than a few times a year because of the known neurotoxic effects.

So 2CB has actually become my go-to drug for most parties/raves/festivals etc. With the right dose, it can be the perfect psychedelic party drug. It's very easy for me to handle but makes the music & lights look/sound so amazing and gives me enough energy to dance throughout the night and has little to no comedown/next day aftereffects. In the right setting it can have very strong empathogenic effects as well. I like to do 2-3 lines of ~8-10mg spaced throughout the night.

I can also confirm sex on 2CB is absolutely amazing! Two weekends ago my boyfriend was rolling while I was on a moderate dose of 2CB and we had the most intense sex ever. 2CB does not impede erection like MDMA can sometimes.:)

2c-b is like fucking Viagra compared to MDMA.

2c-b is not a party drug, it is THE party drug.
Title: Re: MDMA or 2-cb for a first timer?
Post by: tordemon on March 09, 2012, 07:30 pm
MDMA for me is the ultimate party drug, you can't beat the euphoria and love it produces. But it is not something I wish to indulge in more than a few times a year because of the known neurotoxic effects.

So 2CB has actually become my go-to drug for most parties/raves/festivals etc. With the right dose, it can be the perfect psychedelic party drug. It's very easy for me to handle but makes the music & lights look/sound so amazing and gives me enough energy to dance throughout the night and has little to no comedown/next day aftereffects. In the right setting it can have very strong empathogenic effects as well. I like to do 2-3 lines of ~8-10mg spaced throughout the night.

I can also confirm sex on 2CB is absolutely amazing! Two weekends ago my boyfriend was rolling while I was on a moderate dose of 2CB and we had the most intense sex ever. 2CB does not impede erection like MDMA can sometimes.:)
I wouldn't want to have the impression that 2C-B is somehow safer than MDMA. While MDMA has been shown to be neurotoxic and 2C-B has not, I would posit that those results are due to MDMA's greater proliferation and that it was legal for some time prior to being made illegal, whereas 2C-B was only legal for a very short period.

Both are phenethylamines, both have similar empathogenic effects, and both have affinity for some of the same receptors. I would probably think that 2C-B will be at least somewhat on par with MDMA as far as neurotoxic effects, guessing only that decreased neurotoxicity might arise as a result of requiring a smaller dose. Most definitely, though, overuse of either can certainly lead to serotonergic downregulation.
Title: Re: MDMA or 2-cb for a first timer?
Post by: yovvit on March 09, 2012, 09:06 pm
damn you foxymeow.. you've changed my opinion, maybe I'll have to go with 2cb.
Title: Re: MDMA or 2-cb for a first timer?
Post by: Gigles on March 13, 2012, 02:42 am
MDMA for me is the ultimate party drug, you can't beat the euphoria and love it produces. But it is not something I wish to indulge in more than a few times a year because of the known neurotoxic effects.

So 2CB has actually become my go-to drug for most parties/raves/festivals etc. With the right dose, it can be the perfect psychedelic party drug. It's very easy for me to handle but makes the music & lights look/sound so amazing and gives me enough energy to dance throughout the night and has little to no comedown/next day aftereffects. In the right setting it can have very strong empathogenic effects as well. I like to do 2-3 lines of ~8-10mg spaced throughout the night.

I can also confirm sex on 2CB is absolutely amazing! Two weekends ago my boyfriend was rolling while I was on a moderate dose of 2CB and we had the most intense sex ever. 2CB does not impede erection like MDMA can sometimes.:)
I wouldn't want to have the impression that 2C-B is somehow safer than MDMA. While MDMA has been shown to be neurotoxic and 2C-B has not, I would posit that those results are due to MDMA's greater proliferation and that it was legal for some time prior to being made illegal, whereas 2C-B was only legal for a very short period.

Both are phenethylamines, both have similar empathogenic effects, and both have affinity for some of the same receptors. I would probably think that 2C-B will be at least somewhat on par with MDMA as far as neurotoxic effects, guessing only that decreased neurotoxicity might arise as a result of requiring a smaller dose. Most definitely, though, overuse of either can certainly lead to serotonergic downregulation.

While both are phenethylamines, their pharmacology is completely different. 2CB is thought to affect the brain in a way closer to psilocybin/LSD than MDMA. Alexander Shulgin and David Nichols have both stated they believe there is little to no potential for 2CB neurotoxicity. And while there is little academic research on the neurotoxicity or side-effects of longterm 2CB usage, there is a long history of anecdotal frequent usage not resulting in noticeable harmful effects. On sites like Bluelight I have yet to encounter anyone claiming to have suffered depression/anxiety/"brain zaps" from long-term 2CB use (i.e. high doses multiple times a month for years at a time). People have also claimed to have done 100mg+ of 2CB over the course of a night and felt little to no residual negative effects over the next few days--which would be uncommon for a proportionally large dose of MDMA.

You could not say the same for MDMA -- on sites like Bluelight the Ecstasy board is flooded with people claiming MDMA use has caused them significant problems from either long-term abuse or one-time binges with large doses. If 2CB caused significant neurotoxicity I think long-time users of drug-related forums would know about it by this time, considering its availability and low price.

The one thing I would caution with frequent use of 2CB is the chance of developing Hallucinogen persisting perception disorder (HPPD) (look it up on wikipedia if you don't know it). 2C-X drugs are thought to be some of the most likely to cause this disorder if frequently (ab)used.
Title: Re: MDMA or 2-cb for a first timer?
Post by: bananafoo on March 13, 2012, 06:46 am
Is there any cross tolerance between the two?
Title: Re: MDMA or 2-cb for a first timer?
Post by: poolsclosed on March 13, 2012, 05:16 pm
There is a reason 2C-B was the main MDMA replacement after MDMA was scheduled.

I will be trying 2C-B soon, first for a trip and secondly as a party drug. Very excited to do so.
Title: Re: MDMA or 2-cb for a first timer?
Post by: l1llykins on March 13, 2012, 05:26 pm
There is a reason 2C-B was the main MDMA replacement after MDMA was scheduled.

I will be trying 2C-B soon, first for a trip and secondly as a party drug. Very excited to do so.

What's the difference? Setting, dose, or both?
Title: Re: MDMA or 2-cb for a first timer?
Post by: poolsclosed on March 13, 2012, 05:32 pm
There is a reason 2C-B was the main MDMA replacement after MDMA was scheduled.

I will be trying 2C-B soon, first for a trip and secondly as a party drug. Very excited to do so.

What's the difference? Setting, dose, or both?
Both. 2C-x are very dose-sensitive. I think the differences between 8mg, 16mg, and 24mg are supposedly worlds apart.
Title: Re: MDMA or 2-cb for a first timer?
Post by: foxymeow on March 14, 2012, 03:10 am
I will be cranking out 2c-b smarties as soon as I get down with some IRL stuff. I just got 50g of 2c-b in. I am giddy with the amount of doses I can churn out. Now if only I could get a hold of some 180 Proof Grain Alchohol.
Title: Re: MDMA or 2-cb for a first timer?
Post by: bsalt on March 14, 2012, 03:31 am
So what is a good starting dose of 2cb of someone who is accustomed to psychedelics?
Title: Re: MDMA or 2-cb for a first timer?
Post by: poolsclosed on March 14, 2012, 03:35 am
So what is a good starting dose of 2cb of someone who is accustomed to psychedelics?
Shulgin had outings at 16mg.
Title: Re: MDMA or 2-cb for a first timer?
Post by: febbraio2468 on March 14, 2012, 03:46 am
I just took 2C-B last night for the first time and I've done MDMA in the past and I'd say the MDMA was much better in a social setting, I've heard it called the Love Drug and that's what it does, you literally think everyone is beautiful and you love them all. 2C-B was more of an acid trip than MDMA roll, it was fun but I didn't love anyone anymore than usual.


From Shulgen's book:

2C-B seems to be an extraordinarily colorful hallucingen similar to LSD -- apparently somewhat analytical and dissasociative in higher doses or in those sensitive to those effects.
"At high doses (above 30 mgs.), 2C-B is intensely hallucinogenic, and, like any major psychedelic, can be frightening for certain people. In small doses, it becomes a mild sensory enhancer but does not have the strongly empathogenic qualities that MDMA has."
 
Title: Re: MDMA or 2-cb for a first timer?
Post by: bsalt on March 14, 2012, 03:51 am
I wonder what a flip would be like say 160mg mdma and 16 2cb
Title: Re: MDMA or 2-cb for a first timer?
Post by: stolea2269 on March 14, 2012, 04:45 am
I wonder what a flip would be like say 160mg mdma and 16 2cb

I wouldn't advise taking them both at the same time, the coinciding peaks have been overwhelming/unpleasant for me in the past. What I WILL say though, is that these drugs are incredibly synergistic. A mild dose of 2c-b (18mg or so) three to four hours into a 120-160mg MDMA roll is an absolutely beautiful combination. I know it was one of Shulgin's favorite's, and for good reason. The 2c-b seems to extend the roll a few hours but give it a slightly different, more psychedelic, feel. It also brings in some introspective qualities which play wonderfully off the lovey feelings of the Molly.

As far as the two drugs on their own, you'll enjoy whatever you end up choosing. The one huge benefit I see to MDMA is that dosage is pretty forgiving - you'd be comfortable (at least in my opinion) if you took a 100mg dose, or if you took a 160mg dose. 2c-b, while a fairly forgiving chemical in a typical psychedelic setting, can be a little overwhelming in a party/rave setting at higher doses. And without prior phenethylamine experience, it may be hard to get that dose right the first time. I usually start my friends off with 16mg, which seems to be a pretty safe bet.

Whatever you choose, have a great time ;) Let us know how it goes!

S
Title: Re: MDMA or 2-cb for a first timer?
Post by: foxymeow on March 18, 2012, 07:20 pm
I wonder what a flip would be like say 160mg mdma and 16 2cb

I wouldn't advise taking them both at the same time, the coinciding peaks have been overwhelming/unpleasant for me in the past. What I WILL say though, is that these drugs are incredibly synergistic. A mild dose of 2c-b (18mg or so) three to four hours into a 120-160mg MDMA roll is an absolutely beautiful combination. I know it was one of Shulgin's favorite's, and for good reason. The 2c-b seems to extend the roll a few hours but give it a slightly different, more psychedelic, feel. It also brings in some introspective qualities which play wonderfully off the lovey feelings of the Molly.

As far as the two drugs on their own, you'll enjoy whatever you end up choosing. The one huge benefit I see to MDMA is that dosage is pretty forgiving - you'd be comfortable (at least in my opinion) if you took a 100mg dose, or if you took a 160mg dose. 2c-b, while a fairly forgiving chemical in a typical psychedelic setting, can be a little overwhelming in a party/rave setting at higher doses. And without prior phenethylamine experience, it may be hard to get that dose right the first time. I usually start my friends off with 16mg, which seems to be a pretty safe bet.

Whatever you choose, have a great time ;) Let us know how it goes!

S

The trick with taking 2c-b and MDMA (MDA combines even better with 2c-b) is to take a moderate dose (not high, like 120mg max) and then a couple hours into it you take the 2c-b a little bit after the. That way you get to experience both of the highs seperately but also some of the MDMA effects are still there and you get to transition into a nice 2c-b trip. Also by the time the 2c-b trip is over you have already completely comedown on the MDMA. Although you might still get some blues in the morning but muh less than if you would have just taken a high dose of MDMA and no 2c-b.

16mg is a little weak but it is a decent place to start. You just don't get the 2c-b experience on that dose. I gave some people who have literally never done anything but weed 16mg and hey said that it was little less intense than they expected, then again they were probably expecting some insane trip.

24mg is the best dose if you are used to 2cs and the psychedelic experience.
Title: Re: MDMA or 2-cb for a first timer?
Post by: poolsclosed on March 18, 2012, 07:50 pm
I wonder what a flip would be like say 160mg mdma and 16 2cb

I wouldn't advise taking them both at the same time, the coinciding peaks have been overwhelming/unpleasant for me in the past. What I WILL say though, is that these drugs are incredibly synergistic. A mild dose of 2c-b (18mg or so) three to four hours into a 120-160mg MDMA roll is an absolutely beautiful combination. I know it was one of Shulgin's favorite's, and for good reason. The 2c-b seems to extend the roll a few hours but give it a slightly different, more psychedelic, feel. It also brings in some introspective qualities which play wonderfully off the lovey feelings of the Molly.

As far as the two drugs on their own, you'll enjoy whatever you end up choosing. The one huge benefit I see to MDMA is that dosage is pretty forgiving - you'd be comfortable (at least in my opinion) if you took a 100mg dose, or if you took a 160mg dose. 2c-b, while a fairly forgiving chemical in a typical psychedelic setting, can be a little overwhelming in a party/rave setting at higher doses. And without prior phenethylamine experience, it may be hard to get that dose right the first time. I usually start my friends off with 16mg, which seems to be a pretty safe bet.

Whatever you choose, have a great time ;) Let us know how it goes!

S

The trick with taking 2c-b and MDMA (MDA combines even better with 2c-b) is to take a moderate dose (not high, like 120mg max) and then a couple hours into it you take the 2c-b a little bit after the. That way you get to experience both of the highs seperately but also some of the MDMA effects are still there and you get to transition into a nice 2c-b trip. Also by the time the 2c-b trip is over you have already completely comedown on the MDMA. Although you might still get some blues in the morning but muh less than if you would have just taken a high dose of MDMA and no 2c-b.

16mg is a little weak but it is a decent place to start. You just don't get the 2c-b experience on that dose. I gave some people who have literally never done anything but weed 16mg and hey said that it was little less intense than they expected, then again they were probably expecting some insane trip.

24mg is the best dose if you are used to 2cs and the psychedelic experience.
I can confirm the note on dosing. I found 20mg of 2C-B to be very wonderful on my body, but completely underwhelming visually and mentally. I reckon 24mg would have been what I was looking for.
Title: Re: MDMA or 2-cb for a first timer?
Post by: foxymeow on March 19, 2012, 03:59 am
I wonder what a flip would be like say 160mg mdma and 16 2cb

I wouldn't advise taking them both at the same time, the coinciding peaks have been overwhelming/unpleasant for me in the past. What I WILL say though, is that these drugs are incredibly synergistic. A mild dose of 2c-b (18mg or so) three to four hours into a 120-160mg MDMA roll is an absolutely beautiful combination. I know it was one of Shulgin's favorite's, and for good reason. The 2c-b seems to extend the roll a few hours but give it a slightly different, more psychedelic, feel. It also brings in some introspective qualities which play wonderfully off the lovey feelings of the Molly.

As far as the two drugs on their own, you'll enjoy whatever you end up choosing. The one huge benefit I see to MDMA is that dosage is pretty forgiving - you'd be comfortable (at least in my opinion) if you took a 100mg dose, or if you took a 160mg dose. 2c-b, while a fairly forgiving chemical in a typical psychedelic setting, can be a little overwhelming in a party/rave setting at higher doses. And without prior phenethylamine experience, it may be hard to get that dose right the first time. I usually start my friends off with 16mg, which seems to be a pretty safe bet.

Whatever you choose, have a great time ;) Let us know how it goes!

S

The trick with taking 2c-b and MDMA (MDA combines even better with 2c-b) is to take a moderate dose (not high, like 120mg max) and then a couple hours into it you take the 2c-b a little bit after the. That way you get to experience both of the highs seperately but also some of the MDMA effects are still there and you get to transition into a nice 2c-b trip. Also by the time the 2c-b trip is over you have already completely comedown on the MDMA. Although you might still get some blues in the morning but muh less than if you would have just taken a high dose of MDMA and no 2c-b.

16mg is a little weak but it is a decent place to start. You just don't get the 2c-b experience on that dose. I gave some people who have literally never done anything but weed 16mg and hey said that it was little less intense than they expected, then again they were probably expecting some insane trip.

24mg is the best dose if you are used to 2cs and the psychedelic experience.
I can confirm the note on dosing. I found 20mg of 2C-B to be very wonderful on my body, but completely underwhelming visually and mentally. I reckon 24mg would have been what I was looking for.

2c-b is pretty flexible it just depends on what you are going for.