Silk Road forums

Discussion => Drug safety => Topic started by: spacewasp on July 09, 2012, 06:05 pm

Title: Valium...creepin up on me
Post by: spacewasp on July 09, 2012, 06:05 pm
So i got a bunch of valium not too long ago and am starting to feel it grab ahold of me already.  the past few days i've been taking 10-15 mg in a night and feeling really good.  yesterday though, i noticed that around 4pm I started feeling really anxious for no reason...took 5mg of valium and that feeling went away right quick.  i remember reading that you should ween yourself off benzos, so over the next week or so I might take 5mg maximum at night if i'm feeling anxious, but I gotta quit this....its looking like a dead end road.

This shit feels really good when i'm on it (i have problems with tension and knots in certain muscle groups) but in these short few weeks I've already noticed myself being heavily drawn to taking more.  i think its time to cut this shit out.  i think i'll be better off spending money on physical therapy and massage.
Title: Re: Valium...creepin up on me
Post by: Banjo on July 09, 2012, 07:57 pm
I used to IV diazepam because I could get ampoules of it without a prescription and no questions asked for really cheap. I didn't really think it was an issue until I woke up on my couch one day, and there were needles, a broken glass, and blood all over my table and the floor next to it, and I didn't remember anything about it. Still don't know what the fuck happened, (aside from IVing a shit ton of it). Benzos are cray like that... they just sneak up on you, and then one day you're like, "the fuuuuuuck???"
Title: Re: Valium...creepin up on me
Post by: alanko007 on July 09, 2012, 09:57 pm
Benzos are often underestimated. They indeed do creep on you and besides withdrawals, they can cause a plethora of temporary mental issues (depersonalisation/derealisation, emotional emptiness etc.). They are nothing to toy with, muslix wrote an eye-opening, sobering report on benzos and how they destroy one's life. Definitely a must-read :)
Title: Re: Valium...creepin up on me
Post by: spacewasp on July 09, 2012, 10:23 pm
word, if you could link to that thing you wrote, i'd like to read it.

yeah, i've got the other half of the pill i took last night sitting here, but i don't think i'm gonna take it today.  "a few days" honestly, i have a hard time keeping track of days.  i can tell you exactly what i've taken, though, which is 10 1mg xanax pills that i got around the beginning of june, then after that i ordered 25 10mg valium and i have 14 and a half left.  i usually take half a pill at a time.  i probably sound like i'm being over dramatic about this considering that i haven't been hitting the pills as hard as one could, but it still feels wrong, what i'm doing here.  these pills REALLY hit the spot for me (much more than the xanax did) and its kinda freakin me out.
Title: Re: Valium...creepin up on me
Post by: FenderGuitarMan on July 10, 2012, 03:32 am
Everybody's different. My doc gives me quite a few 1 mg alprazolam for years and I don't get dependent on it. 90% of the time I take for real anxiety or inability to shut down my brain. But I go days without any then I'll need 3 mg in one day. Once my  doc asked me to go a month without them. I did. Had high anxiety but no physical symptoms. Now he prescribes them without question and we talk about it every office visit. He said if he had my stress he's want to be on Prozac. I don't want to be in lala land all the time so I think I prefer acute bezos over everyday ssri. never tried prozac so I am speaking from uneducated POV on that.
Title: Re: Valium...creepin up on me
Post by: weedsaves on July 10, 2012, 07:31 am
+1 for self control spacewasp  :) I just talked to a good mate who used benzos to help him with his heroin withdrawals, then the benzo withdrawals were so bad that he went back to heroin  :o

I have heard more than one person say that benzo WDs are worse than heroin WDs. Seems like doctors never want to tell us that tho  ::)

Good luck with your tapering. Depending on how long you have used benzos for the WDs can last for days, even weeks. I would recommend exercise and weed if you get a craving/shitty feeling.

weedsaves
Title: Re: Valium...creepin up on me
Post by: valueaddedtax on July 10, 2012, 12:22 pm
There fairly big doses of Valium - I have a team of doctors and they would all consider that a v. high dose. I notice it's the standard generally for recreational use it seems.

Personally I don't like them for recreational cos they just make me drowsy (I do use them when I'm bored tho - usually just take it until I fall asleep, handy for that) - a lower dose should just take the "edge" off a medical condition such as Xanax for anxiety as an example.

Get yourself something else instead that's not physically addictive - maybe low doses of 2CB although you will build up a tolerance it will be gone in 7 days - that can make you nice and relaxed.

Just my laymans opinion.  :)
Title: Re: Valium...creepin up on me
Post by: alanko007 on July 10, 2012, 04:30 pm
There fairly big doses of Valium - I have a team of doctors and they would all consider that a v. high dose. I notice it's the standard generally for recreational use it seems.

Personally I don't like them for recreational cos they just make me drowsy (I do use them when I'm bored tho - usually just take it until I fall asleep, handy for that) - a lower dose should just take the "edge" off a medical condition such as Xanax for anxiety as an example.

Get yourself something else instead that's not physically addictive - maybe low doses of 2CB although you will build up a tolerance it will be gone in 7 days - that can make you nice and relaxed.

Just my laymans opinion.  :)

I am not sure psychedelics are something to be used for relaxation long-term or so  ;D. They should be used occasionally and taken seriously. However, I have no personal experience with any 2C  substance, so I can't completely deny its potential :)
Title: Re: Valium...creepin up on me
Post by: spacewasp on July 10, 2012, 07:42 pm
lulz.  i've did a whole grip of 2c drugs and other rc psyches back when they were fresh....definitely not going to be taking any of those as a substitute for valium.  what i enjoyed about valium was it was like being massaged to sleep.  If i want to feel weird, underwhelmed, and sleepless then i'll get back into 2C-X.

seriously, though, i'll be fine.  was good to write this post and hear others confirming that benzos are not as benign as the doctors and pharma companies would like us to think.  not aiming to replace it with any other drugs, either...will just stick with my old fashioned diet of weed, hash, coffee, alcohol, ecstasy, heavy psychedelics, and dissociatives.    ;D
Title: Re: Valium...creepin up on me
Post by: redalloverthelandguyhere on July 11, 2012, 12:55 am
Valium oe diazepam was the most prescribed anti anxiety/depression drug in the UK at one time. Everyone was on it and docs handed it out like sweets. A cure all for people suffering genuine conditions in most cases but soon picked up by drug users.

I use only for comedowns off stimulants. Maybe once fortnightly I use due to work and crazy shifts. I never use more than two nights on the run and that is very rare. Valium just makes me sleep. If I took 5mg I would drop asleep 30 mins later.

Valium was a drug that was VERY addictive. It does chill most people out and relaxes them. Use for more than three days and the fourth you will feel a little yearning for some Valium just to take away the slight unease. Very addictive when used to get rid of stress and anxiety but better than SSRIs IMO. Be very careful when using. Try to have it as a once a fortnight thing, once or twice weekly is ok but as stated it can creep up on you so well spotted and yes, do stop using for a while.

Actually, I will have some myself now.

 ;D

Reminded me of my gram off googleyed.
Title: Re: Valium...creepin up on me
Post by: Vinnyg007 on July 11, 2012, 01:00 am
I don't care for Valium. it doesn't make me tired and it isn't very euphoric. I have severe insomnia. I can take 1mg of klonopin, 2mg of etizolam and 10mg of Ambien on top of Seroquel and just be fucked up for a few hours spacing out and eating muffins and watching Pawn Stars.
Title: Re: Valium...creepin up on me
Post by: caffeine_me on July 12, 2012, 08:01 am
valium really shouldn't be used daily because of the additive effect.  With a 40-60 hour half life, you can see how blood levels can really add up and result in added adverse side effects.  The long half life is also the benefit if used correctly because it gives your body time to adjust.  In my opinion it is the safest of the benzo's.  If you look at half lives, it really does give you incite into the "addictive" qualities of most substances.  That is why most smoked/IV use drugs are the most addictive.  Although alcohol and benzo withdrawals are the only ones that can kill you.....so travel cautiously.

Great for coming down from stimulants.
Title: Re: Valium...creepin up on me
Post by: ungodly on July 16, 2012, 10:03 pm
I don't care for Valium. it doesn't make me tired and it isn't very euphoric. I have severe insomnia. I can take 1mg of klonopin, 2mg of etizolam and 10mg of Ambien on top of Seroquel and just be fucked up for a few hours spacing out and eating muffins and watching Pawn Stars.

i took 2mg  (low, but im first time user) about 2 hours after i was already really tired and didnt fall asleep. got mild euphoria. im an insomniac and my brain is definitely hardwired ON. think i might skip it entirely now after reading these half life posts though.. is 2mg not even in the right ball park for visible effects?
Title: Re: Valium...creepin up on me
Post by: b0lixtrader on July 21, 2012, 09:46 am
Valium does not have a long half life...thats why it is so addictive. Because it hits you fast and wears off in 3-4hours.  I took 80-200mgs of Valium in a day for almost a year. I stopped abusing it like that when I really started blacking out due to the addition of copious amounts of coke and freebasing 60mg of opana a day and having a seizure.  I honestly dont know how i lived.....=/ sucks i got that bad but thats what Benzos do when abused.  I can take 6mg of clonazepam and be pretty functional since my tolerance is so fucking high.  Hell i cant even fall asleep from 20-30mg of ambien anymore.

I try to stay away from valiums now but theyre my favorite for recreational use.

For my real use to stop my anxiety, clonazepam is my favorite for its long half life and gradual come down.
Title: Re: Valium...creepin up on me
Post by: Cozmo on July 21, 2012, 10:49 am
Recently i went to my doc and asked about my benzo intake, and told him i wanted to stop. Asked him if it was a good idea to quit cold turkey (not the first cold turkey, i kicked alochol(after 7 years of being an alco) cigarettes(about 7-8 years) and weed (about 9 months)) He asked how much i was taking, i was honest with him i said usually 50mg of diazepam+2mg xanax morning or mid arvo, then the same late at night. So all up i was doing 100mg diazepam and at least 5mg xanax daily. He asked when i started, i said about 3 months ago, he said i was lucky, i was within the 3 month period of when quitting would yield the least side effects.
Ended up quitting cold turkey, it was easy enough (i put that down to being a seasoned pro). But if i had waited any longer after 3 months of taking benzos quitting would take ALOT more effort more side effects etc. etc. so if you didn't know already. 3 Months is key, go past that your going to have alot of trouble quitting.

Essentially the sooner you quit the better.
Title: Re: Valium...creepin up on me
Post by: dannypricefixer on July 21, 2012, 04:05 pm
Stop now before it gets worse. I've read that benzo withdrawal is particularly cruel.
Title: Re: Valium...creepin up on me
Post by: caffeine_me on July 22, 2012, 01:56 pm
Stop now before it gets worse. I've read that benzo withdrawal is particularly cruel.

Benzo's and alcohol really are the only ones that can kill you.
Title: Re: Valium...creepin up on me
Post by: mungshroom on July 22, 2012, 03:14 pm
I have a slightly off topic question on benzo's.
Can move to own topic of you want, but is related.
I too am worried about increasing diazepam dosage.

the tl;dr version first:  I have vampire sleeping patterns. will benzo's help me? what ones? will i be dependant? will i ever get normal sleeping without benzos? What alternatives to benzo's would anyone recommend for sleep.

Now the long version:
Body wants to be awake at night, asleep most day.
It always has for as long as i can remember.
I can force myself into normal sleeping patterns, still have much trouble sleeping at night and waking in morning.
And 1 late night i'm back to square one.

I have recently tried/been using diazepam and/or diphenhydramine (its sold as a OTC sleep aid, not benzo).
I try not to use them if i feel i dont need to, and i dont use diazepam or any benzo's for any other reason or in the day time.
And my plan was to  take diazepam at 8PM regardless of what i want, and be in bed by 9PM, strict.
Sadly i not been sticking to it like i should.
But i'm finding im needing more and more diazepam, and still having sleep problems, even when i am not getting enough sleep due getting up early so should rightfully be tired.
I can be fucking tired all day, but as it gets later, i get more alert and awake.
Would benzo's help me here? Or am i just risking dpendancy/addiction?
I have only tried diazepam and my dosage is increasing (dangerous i know), would you recommend different benzo?
Preferable something on silk road because i havn't been to a doctor in 2 years, and no doctor here would prescribe a benzo to random off the street.


I know drugs are never a cure, but i'll accept any help i can get.
I have tried healthy lifestyle. Worked a good labor job for over a year which consisted of 12hr/day physical labor on 7/6 days fortnight. Healthy eating. No drugs (mostly cos scared of random drug tests). No TV/Computer/any form of entertainment in my small room. Only thing to do after work was drink at camp, drink at pub, or read a book.
Still always had sleep troubles, regardless of physical exhaustion, and waking troubles. When i would fly out on R&R (every moth) i would ofcourse party with the mates and vampire sleep would come back fast. Fly back in and be fucking tired as fuck first week cos very little sleep.

I do wonder myself how much of this is has become psychosomatic.
The mind can have much power over the body, thus if i believe im going to have trouble sleeping, then i will.

Title: Re: Valium...creepin up on me
Post by: caffeine_me on July 22, 2012, 05:11 pm
I have a slightly off topic question on benzo's.
Can move to own topic of you want, but is related.
I too am worried about increasing diazepam dosage.

the tl;dr version first:  I have vampire sleeping patterns. will benzo's help me? what ones? will i be dependant? will i ever get normal sleeping without benzos? What alternatives to benzo's would anyone recommend for sleep.

Now the long version:
Body wants to be awake at night, asleep most day.
It always has for as long as i can remember.
I can force myself into normal sleeping patterns, still have much trouble sleeping at night and waking in morning.
And 1 late night i'm back to square one.

I have recently tried/been using diazepam and/or diphenhydramine (its sold as a OTC sleep aid, not benzo).
I try not to use them if i feel i dont need to, and i dont use diazepam or any benzo's for any other reason or in the day time.
And my plan was to  take diazepam at 8PM regardless of what i want, and be in bed by 9PM, strict.
Sadly i not been sticking to it like i should.
But i'm finding im needing more and more diazepam, and still having sleep problems, even when i am not getting enough sleep due getting up early so should rightfully be tired.
I can be fucking tired all day, but as it gets later, i get more alert and awake.
Would benzo's help me here? Or am i just risking dpendancy/addiction?
I have only tried diazepam and my dosage is increasing (dangerous i know), would you recommend different benzo?
Preferable something on silk road because i havn't been to a doctor in 2 years, and no doctor here would prescribe a benzo to random off the street.


I know drugs are never a cure, but i'll accept any help i can get.
I have tried healthy lifestyle. Worked a good labor job for over a year which consisted of 12hr/day physical labor on 7/6 days fortnight. Healthy eating. No drugs (mostly cos scared of random drug tests). No TV/Computer/any form of entertainment in my small room. Only thing to do after work was drink at camp, drink at pub, or read a book.
Still always had sleep troubles, regardless of physical exhaustion, and waking troubles. When i would fly out on R&R (every moth) i would ofcourse party with the mates and vampire sleep would come back fast. Fly back in and be fucking tired as fuck first week cos very little sleep.

I do wonder myself how much of this is has become psychosomatic.
The mind can have much power over the body, thus if i believe im going to have trouble sleeping, then i will.

Insomnia has so many etiologies that the treatments are equally as variable.  If you are already practicing good sleep hygiene, then my first recommendation would be to try a medication that was developed specifically for sleep, i.e., Ambien, Lunesta, Sonota.  They have a relatively short half life, which equates to lowest rate of next day somnolence (Feeling tired) and even more importantly have the lowest rates of rebound insomnia (Have to keep taking to sleep), and least addictive qualities when compared to benadryl, benzo's, and even trazadone.  Trazadone is probably the least addictive/habitual, but TCA's often have a lot of dangerous drug to drug interactions.  Trazadone also works pretty well for the folks who do not have success with the ambien like group.  Benzo's are a great short term solution, particularly when combating other drugs like amphetamine (Valium is probably the safest), which usually is resistant to the ambien group.  Benzo's are a terrible drug class for long term treatment of insomnia.  First because their sedating effects diminish quickly; ergo, need higher and higher doses which leads to compounding drug blood levels from their long half lives leaving you more prone to side effects like depression, flat affect, and lethal CNS depression (Stop breathing) when combined with opiates.  Secondly, the sleep you do get is not the good REM sleep needed by the brain. 

Also, there is the melatonin, magnesium believers....I do not have a lot of experience with that option.
Title: Re: Valium...creepin up on me
Post by: igor on July 22, 2012, 07:06 pm
Valium does not have a long half life...thats why it is so addictive. Because it hits you fast and wears off in 3-4hours.  I took 80-200mgs of Valium in a day for almost a year. I stopped abusing it like that when I really started blacking out due to the addition of copious amounts of coke and freebasing 60mg of opana a day and having a seizure.  I honestly dont know how i lived.....=/ sucks i got that bad but thats what Benzos do when abused.  I can take 6mg of clonazepam and be pretty functional since my tolerance is so fucking high.  Hell i cant even fall asleep from 20-30mg of ambien anymore.

I try to stay away from valiums now but theyre my favorite for recreational use.

For my real use to stop my anxiety, clonazepam is my favorite for its long half life and gradual come down.

i think you'll find that Valium (Diazepam) does have a long half-life. that's why it's prescribed to come off other benzos that have short half-lifes.
Title: Re: Valium...creepin up on me
Post by: mungshroom on July 23, 2012, 02:13 am
I have a slightly off topic question on benzo's.
...


Insomnia has so many etiologies that the treatments are equally as variable. 
...


Thank you very much for the great information.
I was unaware there was other options.
Def will look into, as i know benzos are definately not a good long term option.
My plan was only to take for a week or two to set sleeping patter then stop (failed there).
I'm am not a fan of any addiction, and try to avoid anything that might be overly addictive.
Dunno why no doctors ever told me of alternatives to benzos for sleep.
Only meds they ever gave me for sleep was benzos and antidepressants. I didnt take the benzos at the time on advice.
Not talked to doctor about sleep in long time though.
Used benzos many times since, but never frequently like now.

Maybe these meds are recent? As i dont think they give  benzos for sleep at all anymore, only for anxiety, i can only presume due to these much safer alternatives existing now? Imma def consult a doctor soon then, and ease up on the diazepam as im obviously abusing it.
Title: Re: Valium...creepin up on me
Post by: Brave New World on July 23, 2012, 02:32 am
Benzo withdrawals are the worse. Never did heroin but pain seems better than feeling like your brain is running a million miles an hour and your heart is about to jump out of your chest.
Scary shit. And I'm only a moderate abuser taking about 2mgs of xanax a day. More recently close to 4mgs and thats where things get really dangerous.

I find that since consuming xanax, I get anxiety more often and more intense. I immediately go for my pills every time my heart rate raises.
Then at the end of the day I want to abuse them to get high b/c it feels incredible. Nothing like some herb and some xanax. Total bliss.

Definitely going to start weening of off them. Just have to stop negotiating with myself to justify my consumption.
   
Title: Re: Valium...creepin up on me
Post by: mungshroom on July 23, 2012, 02:52 am
Benzo withdrawals are the worse. Never did heroin but pain seems better than feeling like your brain is running a million miles an hour and your heart is about to jump out of your chest.
Scary shit. And I'm only a moderate abuser taking about 2mgs of xanax a day. More recently close to 4mgs and thats where things get really dangerous.

I find that since consuming xanax, I get anxiety more often and more intense. I immediately go for my pills every time my heart rate raises.
Then at the end of the day I want to abuse them to get high b/c it feels incredible. Nothing like some herb and some xanax. Total bliss.

Definitely going to start weening of off them. Just have to stop negotiating with myself to justify my consumption.
   

Damn, that bad withdrawal from what id think is reasonably small amount.
And here was me thinking of trying some xanax for me sleeping problems.
Fuck benzos, im so glad to hear there ares alternatives to benzos for sleep problems, which was my only interest in benzos.

Only other use i saw in them, but have only tried a few times cos dont want to make a habbit, is removing the exiety and para i get from smoking weed.  I was constantly stoned from bout age 15-24. Then i quit, and ever since quiting every time i have a smoke i get those symptoms. If i have some diazepam and then smoke some bud i found it quite enjoyable. Thus i have avoided doing it. But there has been times when i have wanted to partake with my mates (Where i live, a very large % of population smoke weed, including all my mates) so i could see myself still using benzo's for the odd specail occasion to have a smoke with the mates.
Title: Re: Valium...creepin up on me
Post by: Brave New World on July 23, 2012, 03:07 am
Benzo withdrawals are the worse. Never did heroin but pain seems better than feeling like your brain is running a million miles an hour and your heart is about to jump out of your chest.
Scary shit. And I'm only a moderate abuser taking about 2mgs of xanax a day. More recently close to 4mgs and thats where things get really dangerous.

I find that since consuming xanax, I get anxiety more often and more intense. I immediately go for my pills every time my heart rate raises.
Then at the end of the day I want to abuse them to get high b/c it feels incredible. Nothing like some herb and some xanax. Total bliss.

Definitely going to start weening of off them. Just have to stop negotiating with myself to justify my consumption.
   

Damn, that bad withdrawal from what id think is reasonably small amount.
And here was me thinking of trying some xanax for me sleeping problems.
Fuck benzos, im so glad to hear there ares alternatives to benzos for sleep problems, which was my only interest in benzos.

Only other use i saw in them, but have only tried a few times cos dont want to make a habbit, is removing the exiety and para i get from smoking weed.  I was constantly stoned from bout age 15-24. Then i quit, and ever since quiting every time i have a smoke i get those symptoms. If i have some diazepam and then smoke some bud i found it quite enjoyable. Thus i have avoided doing it. But there has been times when i have wanted to partake with my mates (Where i live, a very large % of population smoke weed, including all my mates) so i could see myself still using benzo's for the odd specail occasion to have a smoke with the mates.

I'm with you but never quit smoking weed. With that being said it does give me anxiety sometimes but I always feel it is my mind looking at things from a different angle.
For instance, I will be an asshole all day and not even realize it and then go home a smoke a joint and I see how big of a prick I am. Then I get anxiety. But that is good anxiety because you are facing the truth and that is why weed is a psychedelic.

I really never had anxiety otherwise. Always felt I was in control. Then I was able to score xanax ladders and after abusing them came my first anxiety attack. At first I would do them for a week or two and quit for two months. Then after doing that for a couple years it ended up being 1mg a day to 2mg a day to I don't even count. Not more than 4mg. I try to always stay below that.

Now I have anxiety issues. It is similar in respect that when you take opiates when you have no pain, when you are withdrawing from opiates you feel pain.
I took xanax when I had no anxiety and when I am withdrawing I have anxiety. The ying and the yang. Every action has an equal and opposite reaction.

If you do try the xanax/weed combo be prepared to feel incredible. It will totally defeat any anxiety. I have done my fair share of oxycontins (the Old School 80s) and I feel the xanax/weed high is superior.

I suggest you give it a go. Just buy a little bit of xanax. Like a weekend or week supply so the addiction doesn't creep up. Its all about moderation.