Silk Road forums

Discussion => Silk Road discussion => Topic started by: sudo on July 06, 2012, 07:07 am

Title: Beware of the mail
Post by: sudo on July 06, 2012, 07:07 am
In the SR advice to new buyers section, there's a sentence that goes like this: 'Anyone can send anybody anything in the mail.' This suggests LE cannot bust you for simply receiving illegal substances via the post because, it may have been mailed to you by mistake, etc. and it would be hard to prove otherwise. This may be true in countries with a rule of law and a rational legal system.

I was in a Gulf Arab country last month and read in a local paper that an Asian woman was facing a long prison sentence followed by deportation for receiving narcotics in the mail. Her protestations of innocence mean nothing. In that country, simply receiving a package full of goodies with your name on the address = guilty.
Title: Re: Beware of the mail
Post by: Knomo on July 06, 2012, 07:40 am
You're fairly stupid if you order drugs while living in one of the strictest Arab countries on the face of the earth.
Title: Re: Beware of the mail
Post by: weedsaves on July 06, 2012, 07:57 am
So if I have an enemy in a Gulf Arab nation all I have to do to ruin them is send them drugs, good to know  ::)
Title: Re: Beware of the mail
Post by: pneezy on July 06, 2012, 08:23 am
George Bush should've sent Saddam some drugs in the mail instead of sending troops.

That guy was so stupid..
Title: Re: Beware of the mail
Post by: gtgeorgz on July 06, 2012, 09:13 am
You're fairly stupid if you order drugs while living in one of the strictest Arab countries on the face of the earth.
+1

George Bush should've sent Saddam some drugs in the mail instead of sending troops.

That guy was so stupid..
+1

Feeling generous this morning. ;) anyways, I guess that if it actually came to that, (in the UK) if you deny you ever ordered anything then I'm right in saying that you can't be charged?
Title: Re: Beware of the mail
Post by: Kappacino on July 06, 2012, 10:51 am
You're fairly stupid if you order drugs while living in one of the strictest Arab countries on the face of the earth.
+1

George Bush should've sent Saddam some drugs in the mail instead of sending troops.

That guy was so stupid..
+1

Feeling generous this morning. ;) anyways, I guess that if it actually came to that, (in the UK) if you deny you ever ordered anything then I'm right in saying that you can't be charged?

Providing there was no evidence in your house/computer, yes. There's no way that a package alone would stand up as any sort of proof in a court of law.
Title: Re: Beware of the mail
Post by: Limetless on July 06, 2012, 12:03 pm
You're fairly stupid if you order drugs while living in one of the strictest Arab countries on the face of the earth.
+1

George Bush should've sent Saddam some drugs in the mail instead of sending troops.

That guy was so stupid..
+1

Feeling generous this morning. ;) anyways, I guess that if it actually came to that, (in the UK) if you deny you ever ordered anything then I'm right in saying that you can't be charged?

Providing there was no evidence in your house/computer, yes. There's no way that a package alone would stand up as any sort of proof in a court of law.

Yeah but that's the U.K mate, in the Gulf they don't give a fuckkkkkk.
Title: Re: Beware of the mail
Post by: BanWork on July 06, 2012, 01:07 pm
I'm following this interesting UK story:

Quote
A PARCEL containing £224,000 of cocaine was sent from Nigeria to a shop in Northampton town centre and signed for by a member of staff, a jury heard.

Christiana Ubah, 26, is accused of plotting to smuggle the cocaine into the UK after it was delivered by an undercover officer to her work place in Abington Street, Northampton in November last year.

A jury at Northampton Crown Court heard today how the parcel was intercepted at Parcel Force’s Coventry depot having been posted in Nigeria and contained four bottles of cosmetics.

Kate Tompkins, prosecuting at Northampton Crown Court, said the bottles were opened and inside officers found plastic bags containing 846 grams of cocaine with a 61 per cent purity.

She said: “This defendant came to the UK from Nigeria in 2004 in order to study and since 2009, she has been living in Northampton and working at the O2 shop in Abington Street.

“On Thursday, November 17 last year, at 1.55pm, a parcel declared as containing cosmetics arrived at Parcel Force’s hub in Coventry from Nigeria. It was addressed to the O2 shop where the defendant worked in Northampton and the sender was listed as Rose Ubah.

“It had been sent on November 9 and was opened by officers of the UK Border Agency.”

The jury heard the parcel held four bottles of body lotion but concealed within the bottles were clear plastic bags containing the cocaine which was mixed with cuttings agents.

Miss Tompkins added: “On Tuesday, November 22 that parcel, without the cocaine which had been removed, was delivered to the defendant at her work place by an undercover officer posing as a Parcel Force delivery man. The defendant identified herself and signed to accept the parcel.

“As she was walking to the back of the shop with the parcel in her hands, she was arrested.”

Once officers examined her bank account, they found £2,600 had been paid in via two instalments on November 14 and she had withdrawn it all and then paid it into different account.

Miss Tompkins said: “She was interviewed on the day of her arrest and denied any knowledge of drugs in the parcel. She told the police officers her family lived in Nigeria and some times she would receive letters and parcels from them.

“She said no one had told her anything would be sent to her and she said she had only accepted it because her name was on the parcel. The defendant denied being in debt and initially denied any large sums of money had been paid into her account.

“When told the police would examine her account, she stated £2,600 had been paid in by her boyfriend who had asked her to transfer it to his sister’s account.”

Ubah, of Wellington Street, Northampton denies knowing of the drugs’ consignment and has pleaded not guilty to fraudulent evasion of prohibition and conspiracy to supply class A drugs.

The trial continues.

Source:
http://www.northamptonchron.co.uk/news/crime/cocaine-worth-224-000-posted-from-nigeria-to-o2-worker-in-northampton-1-3921442
Title: Re: Beware of the mail
Post by: Kappacino on July 06, 2012, 01:15 pm
That's a good example of a case actually

If that's all the info.. I can't possibly understand how a jury could convict her.. There is OBVIOUS reasonable doubt
Title: Re: Beware of the mail
Post by: BanWork on July 06, 2012, 01:27 pm
The annoying thing is the media rarely follow up on these stories. There must be a way for the public to monitor the outcomes of cases? If anyone knows please do share.
Title: Re: Beware of the mail
Post by: Kappacino on July 06, 2012, 01:30 pm
The annoying thing is the media rarely follow up on these stories. There must be a way for the public to monitor the outcomes of cases? If anyone knows please do share.

Try www.thelawpages.com

It doesn't have every single case but its got a LOT
Title: Re: Beware of the mail
Post by: Banjo on July 06, 2012, 05:23 pm
I used to live in Iraq (not doing military stuff) and if they caught you with any drugs, they'd just shoot you. Except opium, that was ok for whatever reason
Title: Re: Beware of the mail
Post by: zalaan on July 07, 2012, 06:20 pm
I used to live in Iraq (not doing military stuff) and if they caught you with any drugs, they'd just shoot you. Except opium, that was ok for whatever reason
Opium was a few years ago (maybe still now, i dont know) becoming a popular crop with farmers in certain parts of Iraq - guess the Iraqis  didn't want to discourage a potential new export product...
Title: Re: Beware of the mail
Post by: opi on July 09, 2012, 05:19 am
how the fuck is less than a kilo of 61% worth 224,000 pounds??????????

what the fuck are they smoking to make 846 grams = 224k?
Title: Re: Beware of the mail
Post by: Vladimir on July 09, 2012, 09:39 am
how the fuck is less than a kilo of 61% worth 224,000 pounds??????????

what the fuck are they smoking to make 846 grams = 224k?

+1, something must be wrong.
Title: Re: Beware of the mail
Post by: Kappacino on July 09, 2012, 10:56 am
Fuck man..

Perhaps it could be because the sender was listed as her mum?

There is probably other evidence that we don't know about that was only shown during the case. Like if they found coke in her house or something like that, it would vastly increase the case against her

I still can't imagine that a parcel alone would be able to convict you. Even with your mum listed as the sender. It just doesn't seem like enough evidence. But perhaps I'm wrong
Title: Re: Beware of the mail
Post by: zero effect on July 09, 2012, 03:58 pm
Speaking about legal systems, I recently read this BBC article about the Russian system: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-18706597

Quote
At the root of the problem is the criminal justice system itself. Statistically, once officially accused of a crime in Russia, there is little chance of proving your innocence. Less than 1% of all criminal cases that make it to court result in a not guilty verdict or acquittal - and that figure comes from Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev.

Critics say that in practice, if not in theory, courts operate on an assumption of guilt. The prosecution takes the word of the police, and the judge takes the word of the prosecution - no matter how unconvincing the evidence may be.

"If a person ends up in a police cell as a suspect - he will find himself in court no matter what, and the court will find him guilty. That's guaranteed," says Marat Khisamutdinov, a former police officer.

One of the few judges prepared to talk openly about the failings of Russian courts is Sergei Zlobin, who resigned as head of the Volgograd regional criminal board four months ago. His portrait of life as a modern Russian judge is extraordinary.

"Often there are huge gaps in the evidence," Zlobin says.

"Investigators make serious mistakes, but the system is such that even these mistakes are used as evidence against the defendant, and the guilty verdict must be issued anyway - otherwise the judge will face problems."

Zlobin says that in the thousands of cases he heard in the 15 years he was a judge, he only ever issued seven not guilty verdicts - and five of them were later overturned. Issuing a not guilty verdict, he says, was not only a "waste of time" it was risky.

Judges come under all kinds of pressure from the Federal Security Service, prosecutors and the chairman of the court not to acquit defendants, he says, including blackmail. The result? Many innocent people are locked up.
Title: Re: Beware of the mail
Post by: zero effect on July 09, 2012, 04:12 pm
The larger article explains about bribing local police before you get to court, but I suppose you wouldnt be able to do that in Japan. It's not so known for its corruption.
Title: Re: Beware of the mail
Post by: ZenAndTheArt on July 09, 2012, 04:15 pm
Speaking about legal systems, I recently read this BBC article about the Russian system: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-18706597

Quote
At the root of the problem is the criminal justice system itself. Statistically, once officially accused of a crime in Russia, there is little chance of proving your innocence. Less than 1% of all criminal cases that make it to court result in a not guilty verdict or acquittal - and that figure comes from Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev.

Critics say that in practice, if not in theory, courts operate on an assumption of guilt. The prosecution takes the word of the police, and the judge takes the word of the prosecution - no matter how unconvincing the evidence may be.

"If a person ends up in a police cell as a suspect - he will find himself in court no matter what, and the court will find him guilty. That's guaranteed," says Marat Khisamutdinov, a former police officer.

One of the few judges prepared to talk openly about the failings of Russian courts is Sergei Zlobin, who resigned as head of the Volgograd regional criminal board four months ago. His portrait of life as a modern Russian judge is extraordinary.

"Often there are huge gaps in the evidence," Zlobin says.

"Investigators make serious mistakes, but the system is such that even these mistakes are used as evidence against the defendant, and the guilty verdict must be issued anyway - otherwise the judge will face problems."

Zlobin says that in the thousands of cases he heard in the 15 years he was a judge, he only ever issued seven not guilty verdicts - and five of them were later overturned. Issuing a not guilty verdict, he says, was not only a "waste of time" it was risky.

Judges come under all kinds of pressure from the Federal Security Service, prosecutors and the chairman of the court not to acquit defendants, he says, including blackmail. The result? Many innocent people are locked up.
That sounds beyond harsh. I'm glad I don't live there. 'Issuing a not guilty verdict - a waste of time' damn, how do you fight that? (you don't)
Title: Re: Beware of the mail
Post by: ilovelsd69 on July 09, 2012, 04:26 pm
In Canada the real criminals are the politicians... But this must be the same almost everywhere. I have seen an history of a guy (American) that temporally worked in China or something like that and he meet a women at a Jazz Club then he invited her at his hotel room, the day after police has arrested the guy for using the services of a prostitute .. he had never paid her for any services at all, police is corrupt in many countries..
Title: Re: Beware of the mail
Post by: jpinkman on July 09, 2012, 05:51 pm


That reminds me of nothing so much as the Japanese legal system, which boasts a 98% conviction rate. Once you get arrested in Japan, it is almost unheard of to be acquitted.

Guru


Yeah but most people in the west would trip the fuck out if they saw how the Japanese legal system worked in practice because of cultural influences. For instance, convictions are secured because the accused are confronted with evidence of what they did while they are on the stand and a picture would be pained by the prosecution using a technique similar to the Reid technique used in the US. But face being what it is, the accused almost always admit their crimes right there because of the loss of face and shame they feel of being called out on their crime and being seen so blatantly as a liar. It's bizarre. So you have these confessionals in court where the accused finishes describing exactly what they did and how it happened.

This method of shaming suspects seems to be a great method of determining the guilty from innocent while questioning too.
Title: Re: Beware of the mail
Post by: tearghoa on July 09, 2012, 11:29 pm
Fuck no one gets a fair trail in the USA, almost every fed case ends in conviction. They just leave you in pretrial for years until they get you to plead guilty. They freeze your assets so you cant defend yourself . The only way to get a remote fair shake in the US is to demand a jury trial and insist on a speedy trial, this is were most people fuck up.

As for the UK women, the reason she was convicted was her skin color. I suspect people would believe her claim if she was white. A black immigrant in the UK is not a popular person. As for the japs, they only prosecute absolute air tight cases, if its not 100% they take a pass on it. Thats how they are able to claim such a high conviction rate, look at their unsolved murder rate....
Title: Re: Beware of the mail
Post by: jpinkman on July 09, 2012, 11:57 pm
Fuck no one gets a fair trail in the USA, almost every fed case ends in conviction. They just leave you in pretrial for years until they get you to plead guilty. They freeze your assets so you cant defend yourself .

Actually they can't freeze your assets unless suspected of being obtained fraudulently or with dirty money. But yeah, most prosecutors approach who they're accusing with the attitude of "well if I can't convict, I'm going to make sure this perp loses everything else he values in his fucking life and is acquitted a broke motherfucker".