Silk Road forums
Discussion => Shipping => Topic started by: wallacekim on May 06, 2013, 11:49 pm
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Package came in from a vendor that never requires signature. The mail time was way too early, the mailman was different, and he kept trying to get me to sign it. Stay safe guys, this shit just hit me hard.
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I'm guessing you turned him away and didn't sign, just took the loss?
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Smart move OP.
I've heard people call others paranoid, for taking the time to observe the familiar faces of the few mailmen that work your neighborhood, the regular delivery time and so on... I would call anyone who doesn't do this; a complete fool.
I'm sure you have already, but clean your home, keep your mouth shut, buy some beer and relax. Best of luck.
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Fucking scumbag feds. It sucks to take the loss but you followed protocol +1 for that and if they try to get you in another...
pull a Nixon-Deny Deny Deny
Silk who?
FTP FTG
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What happens if you sign for it and don't open the package,
keep it next to the door for week or so, see if LE kicks your door down.
If they don't open her up.
If they do you say, I had no idea what the package was, was going to take it to the
station later.
I'm pretty stoned so this might be a stupid response.
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That sucks ! That means your not going to be able to order shit to that address any more ! I'd check if your regular mail gets tampered with. If so you definitely know they are on to you.
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Shit dude smart thinking. Sounds like you made it out okay. I checked your post history out looks like you had a big package coming. I'm glad they didn't bust you. Shit like this makes me paranoid man. Think I'll just stick to 'cid and maybe 1-2g of molly on the SR. -.-
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You never know. They might to try to redeliver again.
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Was it an express package by chance? Since sometimes as a vendor you can forget to uncheck the signature box or sometimes even if you waive the signature sometimes they still try to make you sign. This would also explain why it would be earlier in the morning and a different mailman since express mail has a different truck usually and is supposed to be delivered before noon. Hope that helps. SCIdmt
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You ordered the shit internationally right?
Shit like this is why I stick to small quantities domestically, that's scary.
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Was it an express package by chance? Since sometimes as a vendor you can forget to uncheck the signature box or sometimes even if you waive the signature sometimes they still try to make you sign. This would also explain why it would be earlier in the morning and a different mailman since express mail has a different truck usually and is supposed to be delivered before noon. Hope that helps. SCIdmt
Hopefully this is all it was...I sent out my first package using Express last week, and I almost didn't select the option to waive signature. It's worded in a way thats very confusing at the APC..I had to read it 2-3 times just to make sure I had to select it to NOT require signature, instead of TO require a signature...
OP keep us updated on what happens..i've heard that refusing to sign doesn't exactly protect you, depending on how long they've been watching you, they could still arrest and charge you, so hearing from someone first hand would really help the community out a lot..much better than just a he said she said type deal as you never know whats true and what isn't.
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Just sign for it pussy
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Was it an express package by chance? Since sometimes as a vendor you can forget to uncheck the signature box or sometimes even if you waive the signature sometimes they still try to make you sign. This would also explain why it would be earlier in the morning and a different mailman since express mail has a different truck usually and is supposed to be delivered before noon. Hope that helps. SCIdmt
Hopefully this is all it was...I sent out my first package using Express last week, and I almost didn't select the option to waive signature. It's worded in a way thats very confusing at the APC..I had to read it 2-3 times just to make sure I had to select it to NOT require signature, instead of TO require a signature...
OP keep us updated on what happens..i've heard that refusing to sign doesn't exactly protect you, depending on how long they've been watching you, they could still arrest and charge you, so hearing from someone first hand would really help the community out a lot..much better than just a he said she said type deal as you never know whats true and what isn't.
Well if OP refused to sign for it then he should have plausible deniability. I guess it depends on if OP has had other packages sent that were intercepted... :/
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Package came in from a vendor that never requires signature. The mail time was way too early, the mailman was different, and he kept trying to get me to sign it. Stay safe guys, this shit just hit me hard.
damn well i was going to say i want more details but if i was in your shoes i would probably keep quiet.
I do want to know how he kept trying to get you to sign it though. that sounds like valuable information.
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couldn't you just have not answered the door, and they would have left a note you can sign on, or you could pick it up at the post office? I'm pretty sure for CD's you and them (the cops) have to be present to sign it. correct?
I mean as far as I know they won't camp out at the post office till you come and sign for it..
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bullshit reply. 73 post newbie.
Don't fall for this people!
I don't know if it's just a bored troll, LE, or some other sociopath, but this is clearly bullshit.
that was fun.
;)
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bullshit reply. 73 post newbie.
Don't fall for this people!
I don't know if it's just a bored troll, LE, or some other sociopath, but this is clearly bullshit.
that was fun.
;)
;D
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I'm guessing that it was that package with the fishy tracking that you made a thread about the other day.
I ordered a package from a well-reputed vendor on SR. It was marked as shipped a month and a half ago. About two weeks ago it was still marked as "Origin post preparing shipment". Earlier last week, the package was said to be in a state halfway across the country. I thought, "Oh, it'll be here this week." But that was not the case. The package was then marked as "Origin post preparing shipment" AGAIN and the date that it was supposedly halfway across the country was moved back to a week after it was sent out. What's going on? Is there any chance I will get the package?
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Oh you're all just so smart.
I've been adding new forum names each month for my own safety. I have no axe to grind, other than the safety of those who seriously are doing business on SR.
That being said, I realize I'm up against a braindead demographic. So carry on.
I should know better than to get sucked into these polesmokers threads.
Have fun with yourselves.
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Package came in from a vendor that never requires signature. The mail time was way too early, the mailman was different, and he kept trying to get me to sign it. Stay safe guys, this shit just hit me hard.
sub {expand}
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Package came in from a vendor that never requires signature. The mail time was way too early, the mailman was different, and he kept trying to get me to sign it. Stay safe guys, this shit just hit me hard.
This thread doesn't add up. Not what you have said, but what you haven't said, and the fact that there is only one post. Fill in the blanks for us.
OP has not signed in since posting this, logged out same minute posted. Whole thing doesn't quite make sense once you look at it for a moment. Why have details been omitted? [edit.]
Being that it can be accessed from the ".to" URL. - All sorts of undesirables now have access to this.
It was like this before though, always had access to onion.to . God knows why you can access profiles on a Tor b-m forum but not a legit clearnet forum is beyond me.
Piece, Love, and Fuck Haters.
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Oh you're all just so smart.
I've been adding new forum names each month for my own safety. I have no axe to grind, other than the safety of those who seriously are doing business on SR.
That being said, I realize I'm up against a braindead demographic. So carry on.
I should know better than to get sucked into these polesmokers threads.
Have fun with yourselves.
lol just ask yourself though mate, why would anyone post this without it being true?
another good point is the fact that op hasnt logged back in.
if it was a troll, he would obviously stick around to see how much attention he was getting.
either way, we wont ever truly know but i always keep an open ear for this sort of thing.
if it IS true, how could having this info be a bad thing?
also, why are you so skeptical? it seems like some people around here just dont want to think about the negative possibilities...
they are there, whether you face them or not.
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Hmmm sounds kinda weird... def not a troll...
Read his other post as well. Really strange how pack came into the country then sent back to country of origin, then back to the US. But OP stated that it was sent to another state halfway across the counrty...and also that it never went to customs. Sometimes customs forget to scan the package, becuase EVERYTHING goes through customs! Maybe USPS realized ISC made a mistake..thats why they sent the pack back to country of origin and started all over again.
OP also stated it took over 1 month to deliver the pack. I hear that if they were to do a CD they would make it seem as normal as possible. And why would they do all those updates and give you any "suspicion" of a CD? I don't think it was a CD, it's possible, but IMO in this case from all the details explained in his other post it's not a CD. Weather you sign or not, they will still break down your door...at least thats what a former prosecutor once said on here...
Good luck to you OP, I've had a similar experience happen to me and it was pretty fuckin scary!
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If the transport companies somehow fucks up sending a pack back and forth, they may upgrade it to a higher priority themselves to make up for the lost time. If a signed for pack is faster than a non-signed for, that's more than likely the case here.
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I've been adding new forum names each month for my own safety.
Are you making a list b/c you are a cop? ::)
Nah, kidding. I liked your earlier conversation so I quoted it.
Edit, okay I can't find it. I'll come back later.
Piece, Love, and Fuck Haters.
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Maybe he got busted shortly after posting.... ?
Of course that's what a troll would want us to think though... oh the internet.
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Maybe he got busted shortly after posting.... ?
Of course that's what a troll would want us to think though... oh the internet.
It's possible that he is so paranoid that he's not even willing to visit anything even close to the Silk Road until he feels more comfortable about the delivery of this package.
couldn't you just have not answered the door, and they would have left a note you can sign on, or you could pick it up at the post office? I'm pretty sure for CD's you and them (the cops) have to be present to sign it. correct?
I mean as far as I know they won't camp out at the post office till you come and sign for it..
This is something I have been wondering many times before. If you're not around for delivery they will eventually take it to their post office facility for you to pick up. From what I've seen it doesn't seem like the post office keeps a cop handy to make arrests. If you went in and they took a long time to get the package then you might know they were calling a police officer but I still have some doubts how prevalent this could be.
I live in a large apartment complex and although my mailbox is smaller than the type you find at a house, there are certainly some perks. For instance if I have a package that needs signing and I'm not at my apartment they will typically give it to the people at our front office. I also know my USPS delivery guy decently well so if I left him a note to just drop something off to my mailbox or front desk area I have a feeling he may just do that.
Either way I certainly just prefer not to sign for anything.
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Hmmm sounds kinda weird... def not a troll...
Read his other post as well. Really strange how pack came into the country then sent back to country of origin, then back to the US. But OP stated that it was sent to another state halfway across the counrty...and also that it never went to customs. Sometimes customs forget to scan the package, becuase EVERYTHING goes through customs! Maybe USPS realized ISC made a mistake..thats why they sent the pack back to country of origin and started all over again.
OP also stated it took over 1 month to deliver the pack. I hear that if they were to do a CD they would make it seem as normal as possible. And why would they do all those updates and give you any "suspicion" of a CD? I don't think it was a CD, it's possible, but IMO in this case from all the details explained in his other post it's not a CD. Weather you sign or not, they will still break down your door...at least thats what a former prosecutor once said on here...
Good luck to you OP, I've had a similar experience happen to me and it was pretty fuckin scary!
You got a link to the former prosecutor thread, or username/profile? The whole sign/don't sign thing is something that worries me. Not signing for something because "you're not expecting anything" makes no sense, but i thought it at least affords some plausible deniability.
Also interested to hear from OP what was being said when they tried to make him sign, how they reacted when he didn't etc.
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I don't know how it works in the US, but here where I live my brother (as an example, I don't have brothers) could sign for a package of mine, or me for his. The fact that I sign for a package how can it be a certainty that I know what's in it and that I requested it?
Probably in the US it is different, but it would be really difficult here to demonstrate that the receiver either when signing is the actually recipient of the content, no matter the name in it. Everybody can send everybody else whatever they like. Imagine for example if someone does that willingly to put you in trouble; there must be some kind of legal backdoor on which to work with.
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Found it.
Your last post was more than 0 seconds ago!
Really? Your stupid forum page takes at least 10 seconds, so how do you figure???? >:(
This is not the Silk Road. This is just a forum. You don't even need a Silk Road account. So don't TRUST it!!- Old noobie
Cell phone is about as non-secure as you can get! Don't post anything you wouldn't want the fuzz to know about my brotha.
Hey.
This was pretty fricken easy. I don't see what all the complaining is about
Things seem to be moving along much faster now, thanks!
Site was pretty busy the past half hour. Anyone else having trouble logging on to the real SR site?
Damn puters getting red hot!!
Can't wait to get on today! Of course it's so busy I can't >:(
Anyone able to get on SR in the past hour or two? Anyone having trouble now???
Took just under an hour. Good luck all. Remember, tell no one about SR! It's a secret club. Not a "lifestyle choice". Be careful! Learn PGP. Learn what Finalize Early means! Above all, always search these forums under the vendors name before committing to a purchase.
Good Luck!
Holy smokes. As a noob, Ive been wanting to get my first 50 posts done and over with, but due to the recent "attack" issues, it has been next to impossible to read or post. It seems that as soon as the SR site goes back up, the forum goes down. And vice versa. Not good for my confidence in becoming a vendor....
That was a good conversation for once on this thread. For once. ::)
Piece, Love, and Fuck Haters.
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I don't know how it works in the US, but here where I live my brother (as an example, I don't have brothers) could sign for a package of mine, or me for his. The fact that I sign for a package how can it be a certainty that I know what's in it and that I requested it?
Probably in the US it is different, but it would be really difficult here to demonstrate that the receiver either when signing is the actually recipient of the content, no matter the name in it. Everybody can send everybody else whatever they like. Imagine for example if someone does that willingly to put you in trouble; there must be some kind of legal backdoor on which to work with.
I'm not in the US either, and it is the same situation in the place I live. But let's say my brother is out and it's me answering the door... Should I sign for an SR package, even if I'm under the impression that I should not have to do so?
Is it better to sign for it to avoid suspicion even if you believe there is a good chance of it being a controlled delivery, or refuse to sign for it therefore making it obvious that you know what's in it, but a harder game to play in court?
I order only small personal amounts and do not sell on here or IRL, but I'm quite paranoid of the violent men that could ruin my life to ratchet up targets. I have always planned to not sign for an SR package, based on the advice of others. But I'm interested in knowing what actually happens on a controlled delivery when the person signs/doesn't sign.
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I'm not in the US either, and it is the same situation in the place I live. But let's say my brother is out and it's me answering the door... Should I sign for an SR package, even if I'm under the impression that I should not have to do so?
If the package is for your sister, brother or whatever how can you be certain one way or another? It would not make sense that if you sign for it you would get in trouble. If you don't sign you can either give the impression that you actually know what's in there already.
But I'm interested in knowing what actually happens on a controlled delivery when the person signs/doesn't sign.
I would be too, but I think this is an information that only an experienced lawyer can reply to fully (with all facets, backdoors etc.) and I don't know if there are some in these forums.
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I don't know why I didn't specify this and worded it stupidly, but I meant for if your name is on the package. And I agree, we'll never know everything about CDs, but I wish more people would write in detail their experience of them. On the other hand, there's probably good reasons not to do so on a public board.
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On the other hand, there's probably good reasons not to do so on a public board.
That's what PMs are for. And knowing every little sod who logs in to SR f. If you don't know someone, maybe your friend will, if they don't, maybe THEIR friend will. Eventually someone will know the score on a member and advise on whether to communicate with them or just play it down. But it is annoying there is NO information. Sparked a whole thread without knowing the OP's situation. If they come back, it would be good to hear a few rough details.
Piece, Love, and Fuck Haters.
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Oh you're all just so smart.
I've been adding new forum names each month for my own safety. I have no axe to grind, other than the safety of those who seriously are doing business on SR.
That being said, I realize I'm up against a braindead demographic. So carry on.
I should know better than to get sucked into these polesmokers threads.
Have fun with yourselves.
lol just ask yourself though mate, why would anyone post this without it being true?
another good point is the fact that op hasnt logged back in.
if it was a troll, he would obviously stick around to see how much attention he was getting.
either way, we wont ever truly know but i always keep an open ear for this sort of thing.
if it IS true, how could having this info be a bad thing?
also, why are you so skeptical? it seems like some people around here just dont want to think about the negative possibilities...
they are there, whether you face them or not.
You really think someone would do that? Just go on the internet and tell LIES?!
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OP I think you made a mistake.
I've had vendors send me packages before that were not supposed to be signed for, numerous times actually, and they asked for my signature... guess what...nothing happened.
Sometimes the post office fucks up, or the sender will fuck and and the post office will have to confirm you are the receiver by having you sign, etc. Pay attention to the signs. If there's not cops around your house, or 2 mailmen in the truck, you're probably fine.
Mailmen come at different hours. I've had 2 packages received in 1 day, and they came from 2 different mail trucks. Sometimes some mail men will handle big packages in your area, others wont. Sometimes mailmen will like to do the routes with the big packages first. There could be a million reasons, but the USPS isn't the most competent mail service so it's probably nothing. Worst case just pick it up from the post office. I've done it numerous times when I wasn't supposed to sign and it turned out fine... I just didn't want to risk loosing thousands of dollars.
Most importantly if you have a track record with your vendor, if you trust him, or if he is highly rated, then you can probably trust his packaging enough. Most CD's result from shitty packaging or a tip-off.
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Hmmm sounds kinda weird... def not a troll...
Read his other post as well. Really strange how pack came into the country then sent back to country of origin, then back to the US. But OP stated that it was sent to another state halfway across the counrty...and also that it never went to customs. Sometimes customs forget to scan the package, becuase EVERYTHING goes through customs! Maybe USPS realized ISC made a mistake..thats why they sent the pack back to country of origin and started all over again.
OP also stated it took over 1 month to deliver the pack. I hear that if they were to do a CD they would make it seem as normal as possible. And why would they do all those updates and give you any "suspicion" of a CD? I don't think it was a CD, it's possible, but IMO in this case from all the details explained in his other post it's not a CD. Weather you sign or not, they will still break down your door...at least thats what a former prosecutor once said on here...
Good luck to you OP, I've had a similar experience happen to me and it was pretty fuckin scary!
You got a link to the former prosecutor thread, or username/profile? The whole sign/don't sign thing is something that worries me. Not signing for something because "you're not expecting anything" makes no sense, but i thought it at least affords some plausible deniability.
Also interested to hear from OP what was being said when they tried to make him sign, how they reacted when he didn't etc.
http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?topic=92097.0
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Hopefully none of you all take offense to this but this is a serious thread that I think some light should be shed on.
Never sign for a package.
I dont care if the post messed up or there was a mistake. We have grown too comfortable receiving illegal goods to us through the post. His situation sounds exactly like a CD and how a CD is done. Contrary to what you may believe police are not stupid. You will not see cars around your house, this is not a movie. There will be a single person doing a CD and obviously not your normal postman because at this point you are a potential danger and the mail carrier will not be placed at any risks. They WILL try to get you to sign for the package, no matter what. This is all that they have at this point because yes, anybody can send you mail. It doesn't matter who signs for it, they're there to raid the house, the signature just gives them a right to do so.
Drugs=money. Money does not get sent to the wrong place. Even if youre using someone elses address as a drop its still going to the right place. The concern of the specific person is secondary at this point, until the gain access(raid) and do their own sorting of things.
Is it worth it for you to be wrong about signing for the package? Or is it worth it to be as safe as possible? There wont be two mailmen in the truck and believe it or not the undercover will possibly deliver mail to a house or two around you. The notion that you're smarter than a group of people being paid daily to do their job is simply ridiculous, that is why we take these precautions such as never signing for a package. How many times do we have to hear of these stories for people to get it?
OP was smart. He noticed an irregular situation and acted as he should of, regardless if it was a CD or not. I can only hope others in the community will act accordingly to prevent the worst case scenario.
I would strongly suggest not answering the door if you notice a situation like this though. Be observant of your surroundings at all times, that includes your mailman.
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Hopefully none of you all take offense to this but this is a serious thread that I think some light should be shed on.
Never sign for a package.
I dont care if the post messed up or there was a mistake. We have grown too comfortable receiving illegal goods to us through the post. His situation sounds exactly like a CD and how a CD is done. Contrary to what you may believe police are not stupid. You will not see cars around your house, this is not a movie. There will be a single person doing a CD and obviously not your normal postman because at this point you are a potential danger and the mail carrier will not be placed at any risks. They WILL try to get you to sign for the package, no matter what. This is all that they have at this point because yes, anybody can send you mail. It doesn't matter who signs for it, they're there to raid the house, the signature just gives them a right to do so.
Drugs=money. Money does not get sent to the wrong place. Even if youre using someone elses address as a drop its still going to the right place. The concern of the specific person is secondary at this point, until the gain access(raid) and do their own sorting of things.
Is it worth it for you to be wrong about signing for the package? Or is it worth it to be as safe as possible? There wont be two mailmen in the truck and believe it or not the undercover will possibly deliver mail to a house or two around you. The notion that you're smarter than a group of people being paid daily to do their job is simply ridiculous, that is why we take these precautions such as never signing for a package. How many times do we have to hear of these stories for people to get it?
OP was smart. He noticed an irregular situation and acted as he should of, regardless if it was a CD or not. I can only hope others in the community will act accordingly to prevent the worst case scenario.
I would strongly suggest not answering the door if you notice a situation like this though. Be observant of your surroundings at all times, that includes your mailman.
I personally don't believe such things should be approached as a black and white situation. If I had not signed for a package every time the post office fucked up, I would be at a loss of $20,000+. I think it's important for the receiver to assess the situation, what they have to loose, what's in their house, what the situation is looking like, etc. If you live in a place that police couldn't possibly surround, chances are they wouldn't do a controlled delivery unless theirs a swat team in the mail truck because there'd be nothing stopping you from jolting out the back door into say the forest.
As a rule of thumb, I never go out and meet the mailman, but I'll watch him from the window. I would assume that if it's a controlled delivery, they more than likely will NOT leave a pink slip at your door. They want to bust you then and there so they can raid your house, and they don't have time to wait at the post office for what could be 3-4 days.
Around 9+ times I have had packages from vendors I had worked with for a very long time that never required signing, show up at my door with a pink slip saying they needed signature confirmation. I took the slip to the post office signed and got my package. Never did I have any trouble.
The post office fucks up a LOT and if you approach these types of things with a black and white philosophy instead of analyzing the situation, then you are going to lose a LOT of money.
Always remember if someone else at your house signs for a package they can't nessiarily pin that on you personally, nor the other person, but they can use it to get in your house. It's why I advise people to always keep a clean house when receiving packages. There has been a number of instances where police have just raided people houses for having packages sent their that didn't even need to be signed for. They didn't need a controlled delivery, they just busted straight in. Though, such situations are likely paired with a tip off of some sort, but not always.
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They WILL try to get you to sign for the package, no matter what. This is all that they have at this point because yes, anybody can send you mail. It doesn't matter who signs for it, they're there to raid the house, the signature just gives them a right to do so.
Are you sure this is valid for every country? Because I checked in all the laws here concerning these things and I cannot find nothing of the sort that a signature gives authority to raid an house.
I agree however on better being safe than sorry, I'm just saying that it would be too easy to fuck somebody if there was not some sort of backdoor on it. I mean, who doesn't sign a package with his/her name on normally? All people do. I cannot remember how many times I signed things I didn't either know what they were in anticipation (when I know something is coming I'm more attentive, but in usual situations who does?).
Yes, drugs cost, but if one wants to make you pay for something this is the least s/he cares for (especially for little weight).
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What is there to assess when the possibility is losing your freedom? Seems fairly black and white to me. Trust me, the money lost isn't worth it. While you may have personally been successful doing this 100 times, it only takes 1 time to falsely assess the situation. Is it worth it? Id venture to say no for majority, id like to think you value your freedom more than 20k. I definitely understand what you mean by assessing the situation and in this situation OP took the right actions. I would definitely suggest you stop picking up packages though.
As for what the police do and what is within the law for them to do are totally different things. Of course they'll raid your house without notice if they feel they're 100% sure something is in there. This is them assessing the situation they have be handed. Trust me they will do a CD no matter how much one thinks the area cant be surrounded. If there were woods in the back, they know that and will be in the woods if they think its important.
Police arent concerned about little weight. Im speaking about bulk of course.
Be safe, dont chase packages.
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They WILL try to get you to sign for the package, no matter what. This is all that they have at this point because yes, anybody can send you mail. It doesn't matter who signs for it, they're there to raid the house, the signature just gives them a right to do so.
Are you sure this is valid for every country? Because I checked in all the laws here concerning these things and I cannot find nothing of the sort that a signature gives authority to raid an house.
I agree however on better being safe than sorry, I'm just saying that it would be too easy to fuck somebody if there was not some sort of backdoor on it. I mean, who doesn't sign a package with his/her name on normally? All people do. I cannot remember how many times I signed things I didn't either know what they were in anticipation (when I know something is coming I'm more attentive, but in usual situations who does?).
Yes, drugs cost, but if one wants to make you pay for something this is the least s/he cares for (especially for little weight).
You're right, I should of phrased that differently. Its a confirmation of taking possesion and they will proceed to take action based off of it.
We're not in the business of operating as all people do. People are more worried about looking guilty when asked to sign. Its not about looking guilty because looking guilty is not against the law but taking possession of illegal drugs sent through the mail is. So sign and take possession or deny? Remember we're talking about a CD, not your normal postman delivering your mail. Id rather look guilty and be free personally.
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So sign and take possession or deny? Remember we're talking about a CD, not your normal postman delivering your mail. Id rather look guilty and be free personally.
Ah yes, sure. Also because "taking possession" is an euphemism since anyway they will confiscate, so it is just a "bad bad" situation; nothing to gain from it.
I'm just thinking now how many times I've been incautious with my signing and how easy it is to fuck a person in this way (especially if the person you know s/he has some substance in the house that they will surely find).
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So sign and take possession or deny? Remember we're talking about a CD, not your normal postman delivering your mail. Id rather look guilty and be free personally.
Ah yes, sure. Also because "taking possession" is an euphemism since anyway they will confiscate, so it is just a "bad bad" situation; nothing to gain from it.
I'm just thinking now how many times I've been incautious with my signing and how easy it is to fuck a person in this way (especially if the person you know s/he has some substance in the house that they will surely find).
Thats true, police aren't going to waste time with CDs for small stuff though. They want the big shipments, they've got drug habits too. :)
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Sounds like express to me...
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imo sounds like the post was just messed up... then again always trust your judgement and intuition in these situations.
I would have just let them leave a note if I had any doubt in my mind. seems like the amount he was ordering wasn't CD level anyway, CDs seem to be 300g+ (mdma) or kilograms that are badly packed. In my time on the road (1 year +) articles about CDs are always for that much or more.
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I agree, this makes me paranoid. I received one this week that I had to go to the po to get. Unfortunately I'm still new at this and assumed that if they didn't come storming in my door and if not that the post office would keep trying to deliver it and that my turning it away would be more suspisous, so I went ahead and picked it up. Fortunately I'm ok, this time, but after reading these posts I will not do that again. If I don't, what happens to the package? Will they keep trying to deliver? Should I tell them I don't know the sender and have them return it? or what?
I just want to live my on life and do my own thing, but stay safe doing it : ) I love these forums because it's my best place for information to try and do this. Thanks everyone for you information!!
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What is there to assess when the possibility is losing your freedom? Seems fairly black and white to me. Trust me, the money lost isn't worth it. While you may have personally been successful doing this 100 times, it only takes 1 time to falsely assess the situation. Is it worth it? Id venture to say no for majority, id like to think you value your freedom more than 20k. I definitely understand what you mean by assessing the situation and in this situation OP took the right actions. I would definitely suggest you stop picking up packages though.
As for what the police do and what is within the law for them to do are totally different things. Of course they'll raid your house without notice if they feel they're 100% sure something is in there. This is them assessing the situation they have be handed. Trust me they will do a CD no matter how much one thinks the area cant be surrounded. If there were woods in the back, they know that and will be in the woods if they think its important.
Police arent concerned about little weight. Im speaking about bulk of course.
Be safe, dont chase packages.
Well I take obvious precautions such as having nothing in my house. Most of the time, even a halfway decent lawyer can get the charge of drug trafficking across states thrown out of the court. Any halfway decent lawyer could point out that the natural reaction of most people receiving a package they didn't expect, is not to reject it, but to accept it in curiosity.
They just use the package to get in your house. Nothing in your house, little to fear. There is a lot to assess in those kinds of situations. If I had let go every one of those packages then doing business on the silk road would be 100% pointless as I would have been losing money in lost packages.
Yes people should be precautious but I don't think it is very kind to mislead people. Not every post-office fuck up is a controlled delivery. Based on my experience I would say 90% of times they get you to sign on a package that didn't require a signature is simply a fuck up on their behalf. Majority of cases of packages being detected are due to amateur vendors failing with their packaging, and even in those circumstances not all of those packages are intercepted. If your vendors packaging is good and he has a good history, you're mostly safe as long as a friend did not tip you off, which it would be stupid if they knew.....and of course this is all strictly speaking about Domestic USA. I cannot comment on other countries.
Though I have had packages from Canada that I did have to sign for and those were also just due to post office fuck ups.
If it's a small amount, obviously just let it go. If it's not, then simply assess the circumstance and what you have to lose. If the only thing they have is a package you signed for and nothing else in your house or anything, then you're very likely to get off, maybe with the exception of a few lawyer fees, but sometimes the package is more valuable than that and the risk is often worth it.
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I would never sign for a package or go to the post office *ever*. Be thankful that in this realm of internet drug trafficking we have the option of just not answering the door when they come knocking and taking a loss. If you were out buying drugs on the street and the police knew what was up they'd pull you over for failing to signal a turn or some shit and then tear your car up because they "smelled weed".
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I would never sign for a package or go to the post office *ever*. Be thankful that in this realm of internet drug trafficking we have the option of just not answering the door when they come knocking and taking a loss. If you were out buying drugs on the street and the police knew what was up they'd pull you over for failing to signal a turn or some shit and then tear your car up because they "smelled weed".
Your opinion may be a little different if you have $4000 worth of items waiting to get into your possession. The amount of times I have noticed the post office to fuck up, sometimes the risk is worth taking if you trust your vendor and you trust there's nothing in your house for police to find, given the worst situation.
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I would never sign for a package or go to the post office *ever*. Be thankful that in this realm of internet drug trafficking we have the option of just not answering the door when they come knocking and taking a loss. If you were out buying drugs on the street and the police knew what was up they'd pull you over for failing to signal a turn or some shit and then tear your car up because they "smelled weed".
Your opinion may be a little different if you have $4000 worth of items waiting to get into your possession. The amount of times I have noticed the post office to fuck up, sometimes the risk is worth taking if you trust your vendor and you trust there's nothing in your house for police to find, given the worst situation.
Yeah, I'm speaking as someone who only orders small amounts for myself and to sell to friends. I can understand taking a risk if we're talking thousands of dollars of product.
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bullshit reply. 73 post newbie.
Don't fall for this people!
I don't know if it's just a bored troll, LE, or some other sociopath, but this is clearly bullshit.
that was fun.
;)
Lol thanks for the backup. Yeah, I didn't sign for it. I'd be crazy to do so.
I'm guessing that it was that package with the fishy tracking that you made a thread about the other day.
I ordered a package from a well-reputed vendor on SR. It was marked as shipped a month and a half ago. About two weeks ago it was still marked as "Origin post preparing shipment". Earlier last week, the package was said to be in a state halfway across the country. I thought, "Oh, it'll be here this week." But that was not the case. The package was then marked as "Origin post preparing shipment" AGAIN and the date that it was supposedly halfway across the country was moved back to a week after it was sent out. What's going on? Is there any chance I will get the package?
Yep, it was this one. It's weird how it ended up here. I think the vendor is to blame tbh, few other people have been CD'd with this vendor's item. It's in his reviews.
AS to the person who said don't open the door, I thought it was a pizza that I had ordered (lol). I was pretty hungry
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I agree, this makes me paranoid. I received one this week that I had to go to the po to get. Unfortunately I'm still new at this and assumed that if they didn't come storming in my door and if not that the post office would keep trying to deliver it and that my turning it away would be more suspisous, so I went ahead and picked it up. Fortunately I'm ok, this time, but after reading these posts I will not do that again. If I don't, what happens to the package? Will they keep trying to deliver? Should I tell them I don't know the sender and have them return it? or what?
Take the thing in context before becoming paranoid, however. We are talking here of bulk orders, not the usual buy. In that case you have to know that you are up to this sort of inconvenience and behave accordingly.
I don't know pf which amount you are talking in this case, but I'm almost sure it's not the amount we are talking here (look at what XXXotica is talking about, for example, as purchases of 20k). But if it is so, then yes, research better and take all the precautions you can (this doesn't mean that in any case you shouldn't take precautions, but just that naturally in this case the thing has more specifics to take in consideration).
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bullshit reply. 73 post newbie.
Don't fall for this people!
I don't know if it's just a bored troll, LE, or some other sociopath, but this is clearly bullshit.
that was fun.
;)
Lol thanks for the backup. Yeah, I didn't sign for it. I'd be crazy to do so.
I'm guessing that it was that package with the fishy tracking that you made a thread about the other day.
I ordered a package from a well-reputed vendor on SR. It was marked as shipped a month and a half ago. About two weeks ago it was still marked as "Origin post preparing shipment". Earlier last week, the package was said to be in a state halfway across the country. I thought, "Oh, it'll be here this week." But that was not the case. The package was then marked as "Origin post preparing shipment" AGAIN and the date that it was supposedly halfway across the country was moved back to a week after it was sent out. What's going on? Is there any chance I will get the package?
Yep, it was this one. It's weird how it ended up here. I think the vendor is to blame tbh, few other people have been CD'd with this vendor's item. It's in his reviews.
AS to the person who said don't open the door, I thought it was a pizza that I had ordered (lol). I was pretty hungry
You really think if someone got busted with a CD they would be able to go on this site and leave a review saying that they got busted? NO, they would be in jail.
And it doesn't matter how much your getting in the mail, they can do one for 1oz to whatever amount they please to do one.
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I would never sign for a package or go to the post office *ever*. Be thankful that in this realm of internet drug trafficking we have the option of just not answering the door when they come knocking and taking a loss. If you were out buying drugs on the street and the police knew what was up they'd pull you over for failing to signal a turn or some shit and then tear your car up because they "smelled weed".
Your opinion may be a little different if you have $4000 worth of items waiting to get into your possession. The amount of times I have noticed the post office to fuck up, sometimes the risk is worth taking if you trust your vendor and you trust there's nothing in your house for police to find, given the worst situation.
Yeah, I'm speaking as someone who only orders small amounts for myself and to sell to friends. I can understand taking a risk if we're talking thousands of dollars of product.
First befoire receiving large orders you clean up your house.
you sign for them if they were tracked - they won't bust you immediately if they're smart - because of denial that you knew what it was.
and what do you do then ? I know stories about people receiving couple kilos of coke and cops letting them have for a couple of days while tracking them where they go and then arresting them with proof . if some poor bastard wouldn't know what was in the package he would probably bring drugs to police - and prove it this way that drugs aren't his order.
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For people in the US I think we should remind ourselves that court cases aren't always about logic but rather how the judge feels like ruling. Justices and law enforcement are essentially part of the same machine and in general when in doubt judges will take the word of law enforcement over your word or the word of any of your witnesses. If you think something fishy is going on with your delivery then I would at least make sure you're prepared for the possibility of a legal battle (which will cost you thousands of dollars).
Many people on here are a bit more knowledgeable about our legal system so that's a plus but it's not like in the movies... the good guy doesn't always win in the end. And if you think a public defender is going to put in a lot of effort to keep you out of jail then you better think again.
As for the value of the delivery... the higher the value or larger the parcel I would think the more likely it is to get caught by customs and more likely they will conduct a CD (since they want to catch the big distributors). In general, though, it seems like we talk about controlled deliveries all the time on here but rarely does someone relate a plausible situation they experienced that involved a CD. Yes there have been instances but the threads always seem to be short on details and follow-up.
I typically buy 50g MDMA from SR and I know that if I got caught in a CD I could pretty much kiss a lot of my dreams goodbye. Be smart with your money and know your vendors well in case you have to eat a loss (or at least part of it).
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if some poor bastard wouldn't know what was in the package he would probably bring drugs to police - and prove it this way that drugs aren't his order.
I don't know how many "poor bastards" you know that receiving 2kg of coke for free would bring it to the police; maybe only the "poor bastards" above 60 years old (if they are not called Burroughs ;))
But maybe you are either right. I would suspect myself something fishy in that case (it's not like finding for example casually a bag with it somewhere and bringing it home).
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imo sounds like the post was just messed up... then again always trust your judgement and intuition in these situations.
I would have just let them leave a note if I had any doubt in my mind. seems like the amount he was ordering wasn't CD level anyway, CDs seem to be 300g+ (mdma) or kilograms that are badly packed. In my time on the road (1 year +) articles about CDs are always for that much or more.
people have had cd for 100g mdma if not for 50g
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You know the saying somtime doing drugs help out the memory if its true if you know were to get it.
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What is there to assess when the possibility is losing your freedom? Seems fairly black and white to me. Trust me, the money lost isn't worth it. While you may have personally been successful doing this 100 times, it only takes 1 time to falsely assess the situation. Is it worth it? Id venture to say no for majority, id like to think you value your freedom more than 20k. I definitely understand what you mean by assessing the situation and in this situation OP took the right actions. I would definitely suggest you stop picking up packages though.
As for what the police do and what is within the law for them to do are totally different things. Of course they'll raid your house without notice if they feel they're 100% sure something is in there. This is them assessing the situation they have be handed. Trust me they will do a CD no matter how much one thinks the area cant be surrounded. If there were woods in the back, they know that and will be in the woods if they think its important.
Police arent concerned about little weight. Im speaking about bulk of course.
Be safe, dont chase packages.
Well I take obvious precautions such as having nothing in my house. Most of the time, even a halfway decent lawyer can get the charge of drug trafficking across states thrown out of the court. Any halfway decent lawyer could point out that the natural reaction of most people receiving a package they didn't expect, is not to reject it, but to accept it in curiosity.
They just use the package to get in your house. Nothing in your house, little to fear. There is a lot to assess in those kinds of situations. If I had let go every one of those packages then doing business on the silk road would be 100% pointless as I would have been losing money in lost packages.
Yes people should be precautious but I don't think it is very kind to mislead people. Not every post-office fuck up is a controlled delivery. Based on my experience I would say 90% of times they get you to sign on a package that didn't require a signature is simply a fuck up on their behalf. Majority of cases of packages being detected are due to amateur vendors failing with their packaging, and even in those circumstances not all of those packages are intercepted. If your vendors packaging is good and he has a good history, you're mostly safe as long as a friend did not tip you off, which it would be stupid if they knew.....and of course this is all strictly speaking about Domestic USA. I cannot comment on other countries.
Though I have had packages from Canada that I did have to sign for and those were also just due to post office fuck ups.
If it's a small amount, obviously just let it go. If it's not, then simply assess the circumstance and what you have to lose. If the only thing they have is a package you signed for and nothing else in your house or anything, then you're very likely to get off, maybe with the exception of a few lawyer fees, but sometimes the package is more valuable than that and the risk is often worth it.
You've got your mind set and I can respect that. In my own personal opinion its just not a good way of handling these situations. I can assure no one was mislead though. Misleading in my eyes is basically telling people its safe to just sign for packages containing drugs and/ or going to pick them up from the post office. Its nothing personal but I honestly wish the best for all of us here and dont want to see more pay for irrational mistakes.
Search the forums and you will see stories of CDs. No one thought they we're having a CD performed so why chance it when its common knowledge in the community to take certain precautions. Not signing for packages is #1 on nearly everyones list.
If it wasnt a concern/ threat, all of the vendors here would require a signature for every package, including me. The fact is that the scenario is real and genuinely hope you never experience such a situation.
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Everybody is looking for black and white tests like "if I sign does that mean I'll be convicted?" This is barking up the wrong tree. The only issue is: does the totality of the evidence indicate beyond a reasonable doubt that the drugs are yours?
At every step along the way -- from the cops deciding whether to ask the district attorney to prosecute, to the DA deciding whether they're likely to get a conviction, to the trial judge deciding whether to dismiss the case out of hand for lack evidence, to the jury deciding whether to convict -- the only issue is whether balancing all of the admissible evidence forces a conclusion that you are guilty beyond any reasonable doubt.
Cops, DA's and judges don't want to waste time and resources on weak cases. DA's in particular don't like to pursue weak cases because that means they lose more cases - not good for career advancement!
The cops would argue that signing for the package is evidence of guilt, but you could similarly argue that signing for a package is evidence of innocence, because you had no idea what was in it and you've never heard of someone who refuses a mail delivery (cue the Seinfeld episode where Jerry refuses a controlled delivery from Newman for mail insurance fraud).
Again, the issue is the totality of the evidence. If you sign for the package as a cloud of pot smoke vents out the door, or they find your computer browser history is full of SR stuff, or you flat out admit to it, then yeah you're probably fucked. If the only shred of evidence against you is that you signed for a package delivered to your house, I'd be shocked if the case would be pursued at all by the prosecutor, much less getting a conviction. The key is making sure that signing for the package actually is the only shred of evidence against you. Clean your shit up before going to the PO to sign for it (note: don't sign for it at your house, as that could be used as justification to search your house).
Believe it or not, the US is not yet a country where you can send an enemy some weed, tip off the cops, and get him locked up for doing absolutely nothing else illegal.
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"If it's not from Amazon, I can't sign for it."
"Where's it from? No, I'm not expecting anything from that location. Sorry."
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Actually they can't do anything if you sign for it, signing is not a crime, and you can't know what is in the package until you sign and open it. So even if it's a trap and you sign for it, and open it, but not consuming, you didn't do any crime. Sign, close the door, open the package and if shit happens make the package disappear.
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bullshit reply. 73 post newbie.
Don't fall for this people!
I don't know if it's just a bored troll, LE, or some other sociopath, but this is clearly bullshit.
that was fun.
;)
Lol thanks for the backup. Yeah, I didn't sign for it. I'd be crazy to do so.
I'm guessing that it was that package with the fishy tracking that you made a thread about the other day.
I ordered a package from a well-reputed vendor on SR. It was marked as shipped a month and a half ago. About two weeks ago it was still marked as "Origin post preparing shipment". Earlier last week, the package was said to be in a state halfway across the country. I thought, "Oh, it'll be here this week." But that was not the case. The package was then marked as "Origin post preparing shipment" AGAIN and the date that it was supposedly halfway across the country was moved back to a week after it was sent out. What's going on? Is there any chance I will get the package?
Yep, it was this one. It's weird how it ended up here. I think the vendor is to blame tbh, few other people have been CD'd with this vendor's item. It's in his reviews.
AS to the person who said don't open the door, I thought it was a pizza that I had ordered (lol). I was pretty hungry
Lol.... you came back? ???
Lol.... it wasn't pizza though was it.... ::)
Piece, Love, and Fuck Haters.
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Hmmm sounds kinda weird... def not a troll...
Read his other post as well. Really strange how pack came into the country then sent back to country of origin, then back to the US. But OP stated that it was sent to another state halfway across the counrty...and also that it never went to customs. Sometimes customs forget to scan the package, becuase EVERYTHING goes through customs! Maybe USPS realized ISC made a mistake..thats why they sent the pack back to country of origin and started all over again.
OP also stated it took over 1 month to deliver the pack. I hear that if they were to do a CD they would make it seem as normal as possible. And why would they do all those updates and give you any "suspicion" of a CD? I don't think it was a CD, it's possible, but IMO in this case from all the details explained in his other post it's not a CD. Weather you sign or not, they will still break down your door...at least thats what a former prosecutor once said on here...
Good luck to you OP, I've had a similar experience happen to me and it was pretty fuckin scary!
you must be remembering incorrectly. i just read through the thread and he says:
Quote from: sunny1 on December 10, 2012, 11:16 pm
Quote
They got what is called an anticipatory search warrant. Basically, it gives the police permission to execute the search warrant once the person accepts the delivery because the person is now in possession of an illegal substance.
This is what i've heard before about cd's on mail delivery. They discover the goods and when you sign for it they execute the warrant. Or if you take the package inside, in some situations. What you said seems to confirm that they can't execute the warrant without some evidence the person knew what was in it. IOW, a package of drugs sent to your name proves nothing unless you take it inside or sign for it. Have you heard of them executing a warrant with just a package sent to their name and no other factors involved? Lets say they leave it in the mailbox for a good long time or refuse to sign for it?
In the cases I saw, nobody ever refused to sign for a package. If they had, then the police wouldn't have been able to go in to the house. The would never just leave a package in a mailbox. It had to be a controlled delivery.
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I hope you used a fake id on that drop because if they weren't on to you, they are now. Refusing to sign is a dramatic act at the post office and is incredibly suspicious. Postal employees are likely to report it to their local postal inspector. If you are paranoid about a pack and you don't want to sign, don't refuse to sign! Tell them to return to sender, you are refusing delivery. But don't worry, that will attract the postal inspector as well when it ends up in the dead letter center and is opened. Sending them back to your drop, looking for you. What normal person would refuse to sign for a pack?
In all honestly, accepting the pack is the best choice when confronted with this situation. Lots of PO's want you to sign for any pack that is behind the counter. I get priority packs from random shit off ebay to one of my po boxes and they always want me to sign.
Everyone needs to have a plan, ready in advance, on how to deal with a controlled delivery. Be creative, think it through, come out he other side. Once you are in the situation is the wrong time to figure it out. Situations require management not fear. All decisions made out of fear will be regretted. Read up on what LE is doing in your country and revise your plans accordingly. In all the cases I have read about, the person panicked, had ample time to tip the scale incredibility in their favor, but was to busy freaking out to act.
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Everybody is looking for black and white tests like "if I sign does that mean I'll be convicted?" This is barking up the wrong tree. The only issue is: does the totality of the evidence indicate beyond a reasonable doubt that the drugs are yours?
At every step along the way -- from the cops deciding whether to ask the district attorney to prosecute, to the DA deciding whether they're likely to get a conviction, to the trial judge deciding whether to dismiss the case out of hand for lack evidence, to the jury deciding whether to convict -- the only issue is whether balancing all of the admissible evidence forces a conclusion that you are guilty beyond any reasonable doubt.
Cops, DA's and judges don't want to waste time and resources on weak cases. DA's in particular don't like to pursue weak cases because that means they lose more cases - not good for career advancement!
The cops would argue that signing for the package is evidence of guilt, but you could similarly argue that signing for a package is evidence of innocence, because you had no idea what was in it and you've never heard of someone who refuses a mail delivery (cue the Seinfeld episode where Jerry refuses a controlled delivery from Newman for mail insurance fraud).
Again, the issue is the totality of the evidence. If you sign for the package as a cloud of pot smoke vents out the door, or they find your computer browser history is full of SR stuff, or you flat out admit to it, then yeah you're probably fucked. If the only shred of evidence against you is that you signed for a package delivered to your house, I'd be shocked if the case would be pursued at all by the prosecutor, much less getting a conviction. The key is making sure that signing for the package actually is the only shred of evidence against you. Clean your shit up before going to the PO to sign for it (note: don't sign for it at your house, as that could be used as justification to search your house).
Believe it or not, the US is not yet a country where you can send an enemy some weed, tip off the cops, and get him locked up for doing absolutely nothing else illegal.
+1 Excellent post that gives a general view of the issue.
DA's in particular don't like to pursue weak cases because that means they lose more cases - not good for career advancement!
Weak cases also bring in less fines / citation money and seized assets to the justice system. They are a business just like every other part of the government. Gotta pad those pensions!
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couldn't you just have not answered the door, and they would have left a note you can sign on, or you could pick it up at the post office? I'm pretty sure for CD's you and them (the cops) have to be present to sign it. correct?
I mean as far as I know they won't camp out at the post office till you come and sign for it..
uhhh no.
the cops will be called once you pick the pack up and come and get you..
before you even get into your car!!
/thumbs
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What does CD stand for?
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What does CD stand for?
Ummm Controlled ummmmm Delivery.
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couldn't you just have not answered the door, and they would have left a note you can sign on, or you could pick it up at the post office? I'm pretty sure for CD's you and them (the cops) have to be present to sign it. correct?
I mean as far as I know they won't camp out at the post office till you come and sign for it..
uhhh no.
the cops will be called once you pick the pack up and come and get you..
before you even get into your car!!
/thumbs
yea your right. actually one of my friends relatives picked up a pack (lb-ish of weed) at the PO for a friend, and wreaked of weed. They noticed some car was following them, black SUV or something so took some side roads to lose it and got back home. 5 minutes later the black SUV pulls into their driveway and its the FBI. They got off with a minor infraction, but still.. it was the FBI lol.
So I guess they can do CD for anything.. leaving it at the post office doesn't offer much safety.. just have to have a completely clean house, put on the innocence face and hope for the best.
Then for packs where they have put a tracking device in it, and a device that notifies the cops when you've opened it, I don't know how you can get around that. seem to be pretty screwed in that situation. can't think of any ways out for that.
wiggum gives some really good advice and logic about the justice system.. props
and like they say.. if you can't do the time don't do the crime
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Hmmm sounds kinda weird... def not a troll...
Read his other post as well. Really strange how pack came into the country then sent back to country of origin, then back to the US. But OP stated that it was sent to another state halfway across the counrty...and also that it never went to customs. Sometimes customs forget to scan the package, becuase EVERYTHING goes through customs! Maybe USPS realized ISC made a mistake..thats why they sent the pack back to country of origin and started all over again.
OP also stated it took over 1 month to deliver the pack. I hear that if they were to do a CD they would make it seem as normal as possible. And why would they do all those updates and give you any "suspicion" of a CD? I don't think it was a CD, it's possible, but IMO in this case from all the details explained in his other post it's not a CD. Weather you sign or not, they will still break down your door...at least thats what a former prosecutor once said on here...
Good luck to you OP, I've had a similar experience happen to me and it was pretty fuckin scary!
you must be remembering incorrectly. i just read through the thread and he says:
Quote from: sunny1 on December 10, 2012, 11:16 pm
Quote
They got what is called an anticipatory search warrant. Basically, it gives the police permission to execute the search warrant once the person accepts the delivery because the person is now in possession of an illegal substance.
This is what i've heard before about cd's on mail delivery. They discover the goods and when you sign for it they execute the warrant. Or if you take the package inside, in some situations. What you said seems to confirm that they can't execute the warrant without some evidence the person knew what was in it. IOW, a package of drugs sent to your name proves nothing unless you take it inside or sign for it. Have you heard of them executing a warrant with just a package sent to their name and no other factors involved? Lets say they leave it in the mailbox for a good long time or refuse to sign for it?
In the cases I saw, nobody ever refused to sign for a package. If they had, then the police wouldn't have been able to go in to the house. The would never just leave a package in a mailbox. It had to be a controlled delivery.
Actually yes; the police can raid you even if you do not sign for a package.....
(clear net) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berwyn_Heights,_Maryland_mayor%27s_residence_drug_raid
The Berwyn Heights mayor's residence drug raid was a controversial action taken by the Prince George's County, Maryland, Sheriff's Office and Police Department at the home of Berwyn Heights mayor Cheye Calvo on July 29, 2008. The raid was the culmination of an investigation that began in Arizona, where a package containing 32 pounds of marijuana was intercepted in a FedEx warehouse, addressed to the mayor's residence. In spite of intercepting the package in transit, the police allowed the package to be delivered. Once the package arrived at the house, a SWAT team raided and held the mayor and his mother-in-law at gunpoint, and shot and killed his two Labrador retrievers, one while it attempted to run away.
The event gained national and international media attention. While the Calvos were cleared of wrongdoing, the police were accused by the Calvos and civil rights groups of lacking a proper search warrant, excessive force, and failure to conduct a proper background investigation of the home being raided. Despite the criticisms, no action has been taken against the officers or their respective police departments. In August 2010, Sheriff Jackson stated that "we'd do it again. Tonight."
If you are stupid enough to sign for a package then you deserve the potential negative repercussions. "When you get greedy, you go home hungry"
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subbed
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I suppose it is different all around the world, but I heard from a friend of a friend that signing for the delivery makes it much harder for you to deny having ordered it.....I know this is ridiculous, but that's the way it works here.
Also, the friend of a friend said the police came to their house after they wouldn't sign and refused delivery of the package (they actually hadn't ordered anything.....perhaps it was just a drop address for someone).
The police mentioned that had they signed for it they would have likely been in trouble.
Interesting to note that the package postman was not the usual post man (quite normal when packages are delivered anyway), and was infact a policeman himself!
Be careful y'all.
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This whole "if you sign for it then you get arrested" thing is a little sketchy to me. I mean its potentially true - but surely it couldnt go anywhere in court because it doesnt prove anything.
For example - If i post a kilo of coke to my grandmother, they detect it, CD it, and she signs for it - then all that would happen is that if shes arrested and an investigation is started, it would eventually become apparent that she had no idea what she was signing for. Which could also be true of anyone if they say so.
So CD or no CD, all you've gotta do is make sure they don't find anything ELSE. And IMO if you're dealing with decent sized amounts of anything, you should be taking the utmost care in your dealings, storage, internet history, records etc anyway...!
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For example - If i post a kilo of coke to my grandmother, they detect it, CD it, and she signs for it - then all that would happen is that if shes arrested and an investigation is started, it would eventually become apparent that she had no idea what she was signing for. Which could also be true of anyone if they say so.
But it is also true that who is gonna waste bulk quantities just to make someone pay? Naturally just the sign is not enough, but anyway it is a good advice that something "fishy" is happening there (so the sign is not enough but they will start acquiring info, search your home etc. to find connections; all in all you will have or to stop for a while or be extremely cautious from then on).
To have someone just to do harm to you waste large quantities (especially if the drug cost a lot) it is a somewhat primitive method of "revenge", there are much better ways naturally (that usually waste much less money).
I think it is difficult to let pass the LE that someone for revenge sent you 1kg of coke; a mistake could be a better explanation but in this case it is extremely difficult if your first and last name are not popular enough for this to happen, especially if the address is correct to the detail.
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What does CD stand for?
controlled delivery.
YW
Piece, Love, and Fuck Haters.
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@Razorspyne - What was the point of quoting all of those posts of mine? Most of them were to blow past the 50 mark. Didn't have that back when I originally joined.
Well I must've been in a shitty mood on some of those.
I wanted to add that I was talking to my lawyer while waiting outside the courthouse during a recess (divorce :-X) - and I asked him, of course I told him of "a friend" who was afraid of signing for a delivery, that he was sure was pot his friend was sending from Cali.
His answer? "Plausible Deniability". - almost all the time, covers you in that situation. Of course if it's a guy, with a record of drug convictions, and they're watching him, or it is a controlled delivery, it's going to be a tougher fight, but the signing alone in no way makes a person guilty. He also suggested to always scribble your signature, this way you can always say, "Look that's not my signature"
I once signed for a TNT delivery, while a cop was leaning on the hood of his car, having a chat with my neighbor and I about a 'break-in' down the block.
I must've turned white, but played it cool. "More crap my ex-wife ordered, on MY credit card! Oh well, take it easy guys!" - They both chuckled, as I acted all annoyed, and stormed up the driveway. Whew! - all nervous for nothing (well there were 100 10mg Valium in there ::))
Apologies to wallacekim - Didn't mean to call you a troll. - I was grouchy from a speed crash. Not happy to look at that post. I'm not always that big of a dick. (just sometimes :-[)
Peace?
Chip
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You should ask your lawyer... If he was receiving a pound of weed, or 100g mdma, or whatever.... If he was expecting that, and there was no other evidence against him (clean house, clean computer, etc.) and there was a knock at the door asking for a signature, and he believed there was a good chance of this being a CD, would he sign for it or not? If you could have him talk you through EXACTLY what he would do, at every stage, that would be just grand!
I understand you might not be able to ask these sorts of questions without drawing suspicion. But if it comes up again, would be great info to have. If I am ever asked to sign for an SR package, I will not do it. However, if I was a cop, *not* signing would be a much bigger red flag to me than signing would be. Indeed, it would be *the* confirmation I needed. Is this one of those instances where courts simply work contrary to instinct, and what flies by logic simply won't fly in courst? Or maybe it doesn't really matter either way, the fact it's coming to you means you're pretty fucked?
The idea of seeing, say, a neighbour, refuse to sign for a package is absurd and suspicious, even just as a fellow neighbour.
Also, kudos to you for apologizing. Not enough apologizing on the internet! I'm quite drunk. +1 to you sir.
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just don't sign for shit, period.
don't be a fucking retard.. you know where you are, right??
a fucking underground ANONYMOUS black market.. BLACK MARKET...
soo.. follow all precautions and you should be good to go.
i, personally, left for a few months and i come back to all of this crazy shit, lol.
some Vendors are still around but i don't see most of the ones that were prominent a few months back..
before scammers... now it's phishers... ugh.. when will all of you learn!??!?
almost 2 years strong.. and you people are still failing to follow the simple and safe guidelines? :(
don't sign for shit! unless your Vendor tells you that you need to! even then i still wouldn't!!!!!!!!!111111
/thumbs
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don't sign for shit! unless your Vendor tells you that you need to! even then i still wouldn't!!!!!!!!!111111
It is guaranteed that your package will be opened if you refuse to sign. I can tell you don't get express packages from many other countries. Sometimes you do what you've got to do. Cheers.
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don't sign for shit! unless your Vendor tells you that you need to! even then i still wouldn't!!!!!!!!!111111
It is guaranteed that your package will be opened if you refuse to sign. I can tell you don't get express packages from many other countries. Sometimes you do what you've got to do. Cheers.
I don't know if anyone has thought of this mind-blowingly brilliant stealth strategy so I guess I will be the first!!! :D Hey guys! :) What about vendors not sending us shit that we have to sign?! :o
Sorry but it gets me.
Piece, Love, and Fuck Haters.
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don't sign for shit! unless your Vendor tells you that you need to! even then i still wouldn't!!!!!!!!!111111
It is guaranteed that your package will be opened if you refuse to sign. I can tell you don't get express packages from many other countries. Sometimes you do what you've got to do. Cheers.
and this is why i stick domestic, "cheers".
not to mention, when i did shop a few International orders..
i signed for one out of four Express packages... so.. :)
not every mailman runs the same ship, buddy... so cheer up.
/thumbs
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My regular monthly orders are from overseas, but never do I have to sign. There were some here and there when trying different vendors and products, where I did have to sign, but nothing ever came of it.
I wish I could depend on US Vendors to be as fast to ship as my regular dealers(vendors) from overseas.
Just take my latest orders. I order every two weeks as that's how I get paid. I only did 3 orders. 2 from regular vendors, I've been using for almost a year, and one US Vendor who was running a special 2 for 1 offer, and I wanted to get rid of what ฿itcoins I had left over.
Earlier today (Saturday) I get the two orders. One from Poland, and one from Spain. The US domestic seller? Nope, not yet. - I'm not that upset, because it was something I only use on occasion, and it was sent 1st class mail. All 3 orders were placed a week ago, when SR had just come back online. (approx 12:00am UTC) basically Saturday evening one week ago.
It's not the 1st time. Many US vendors seem to take their time getting orders out. I'm always trying out new ones, and usually let down. Even with Priority!
You pay the Priority (which many jack up to include gas and shipping supplies-passing the cost on to you)- Only to have them SIT on the order for two days. Once they let it go that long before marking 'in-transit'- you should get a refund for shipping. It's obviously not a "Priority" for the vendor. Then a weekend comes and....well you get it.
These have usually been small test orders, as I'm trying out a new vendor.
I'm not saying they're ALL bad. - I have many 'go to' vendors who are domestic US. Natasha - Mr Importer to name a few. They're excellent!
Just wanted to spout off about that since the topic changed to US vs Intl. - A lot of vendors could use a lesson in "Expediting" (some may have to look it up)
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You should ask your lawyer... If he was receiving a pound of weed, or 100g mdma, or whatever.... If he was expecting that, and there was no other evidence against him (clean house, clean computer, etc.) and there was a knock at the door asking for a signature, and he believed there was a good chance of this being a CD, would he sign for it or not? If you could have him talk you through EXACTLY what he would do, at every stage, that would be just grand!
I understand you might not be able to ask these sorts of questions without drawing suspicion. But if it comes up again, would be great info to have. If I am ever asked to sign for an SR package, I will not do it. However, if I was a cop, *not* signing would be a much bigger red flag to me than signing would be. Indeed, it would be *the* confirmation I needed. Is this one of those instances where courts simply work contrary to instinct, and what flies by logic simply won't fly in courst? Or maybe it doesn't really matter either way, the fact it's coming to you means you're pretty fucked?
I'm a lawyer and as I said in an earlier post, there are no black and white tests on this issue - it really just boils down to how much evidence there is against you. In the US there is a very strong presumption of innocence, meaning that you can't be convicted just because you're "probably guilty." It's more like you can only be convicted if there is no other reasonable explanation for how the drugs ended up at your house. Note that you might get arrested just because the cops think you're probably guilty, but a conviction is a completely different issue.
So let's look at this like a judge looking at a new case, where all he knows about the case are the facts set forth in the criminal complaint. The only undisputed fact is that the local post office has a package addressed to the defendant that contains 1lb of weed.
***This is not advice,*** but personally, if I'm the judge I think someone refusing to sign for a package addressed to them is extremely suspicious behavior. If the defendant testifies (defendants can always refuse to testify in US), the prosecutor should ask "about how many packages have you received by mail or UPS/FedEx in the last year?" Defendant answers "I don't know, maybe 20." Prosecutor asks "and how many times did you refuse delivery of a package addressed to you?" "Uhhh. Never." "How about in the last five years?" "Uhhh. Never." In my opinion that answer alone is super incriminating.
Then the prosecutor should get a mailman (preferably the defendant's mailman) to testify about how many packages he delivers in a typical day/week/year, and how often the addressee refuses to accept the package. I bet the answer is something like "it's extremely unusual for a private residential address to refuse a delivery. It almost never happens."
To me, and I think to a reasonable judge or juror, it's really a stretch to believe it was only a coincidence that the defendant refused to accept THIS package, out of all the other packages he's ever received, and given how unusual it is for residential postal customers to refuse delivery in general. Yeah, suuuuuure buddy, you had no idea what was in that box when you refused to accept it. Right.
So now there are two pieces of evidence against the defendant: drugs addressed to defendant, and defendant exhibiting extremely unusual behavior when first presented with the package. This still might not be enough to get a conviction if there's no other evidence, but if there is anything else about the defendant that makes it seem likely he's involved with drugs, I think we're getting to the point where a typical judge or juror is going to think the defendant is full of shit and would convict.
Now instead let's assume the defendant got a knock at the door (knowing it's the mailman with the package) and instead simply doesn't answer the door. Mailman leaves a note instructing defendant to pick up a package at the post office. Defendant goes there the next day, waits in line and signs for the package at the counter. Cops come out of the woodwork and arrest him. Defendant behaves like a smart defendant and says nothing beyond "what's going on?" and "i have no idea what you're talking about" then shuts up and doesn't say another word.
Now the only evidence against the defendant is drugs addressed to him and the fact that the defendant went to the post office with a note he got from the mailman. I think a reasonable judge or juror would say "well of course anyone who gets a note from the mailman that they have a package waiting will go to the post office to pick it up." There is nothing the least bit suspicious or incriminating about going to the post office after you've received a note saying "go to the post office."
Absent any other evidence against the defendant, I think there are many other reasonable explanations for why drugs were addressed to him. Maybe a friend or girlfriend used his name to get drugs delivered and was planning to get to the package before the defendant did. Maybe it was mistaken identity - sender tried to send it to someone with a similar name but got the wrong address from the directory/internet. Maybe it was someone with a vendetta willing to lose a few thousand dollars to get the defendant in trouble. Who knows. But the credibility of any of these alternative stories goes out the window if the defendant freaked out and refused delivery instead of acting like a normal person receiving a normal package.
I think if you're getting a CD it's pretty likely you'll get arrested or at least detained and questioned. Don't say or do anything to incriminate yourself. Personally, I think refusing delivery is odd behavior and I would consider it incriminating.
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Thanks for the response. This is pretty much how I felt about the whole question, refusing to sign is bizarre behaviour and basically proves knowledge of contents. Perhaps I will sign, if the unlucky day ever comes.
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You should ask your lawyer... If he was receiving a pound of weed, or 100g mdma, or whatever.... If he was expecting that, and there was no other evidence against him (clean house, clean computer, etc.) and there was a knock at the door asking for a signature, and he believed there was a good chance of this being a CD, would he sign for it or not? If you could have him talk you through EXACTLY what he would do, at every stage, that would be just grand!
I understand you might not be able to ask these sorts of questions without drawing suspicion. But if it comes up again, would be great info to have. If I am ever asked to sign for an SR package, I will not do it. However, if I was a cop, *not* signing would be a much bigger red flag to me than signing would be. Indeed, it would be *the* confirmation I needed. Is this one of those instances where courts simply work contrary to instinct, and what flies by logic simply won't fly in courst? Or maybe it doesn't really matter either way, the fact it's coming to you means you're pretty fucked?
I'm a lawyer and as I said in an earlier post, there are no black and white tests on this issue - it really just boils down to how much evidence there is against you. In the US there is a very strong presumption of innocence, meaning that you can't be convicted just because you're "probably guilty." It's more like you can only be convicted if there is no other reasonable explanation for how the drugs ended up at your house. Note that you might get arrested just because the cops think you're probably guilty, but a conviction is a completely different issue.
So let's look at this like a judge looking at a new case, where all he knows about the case are the facts set forth in the criminal complaint. The only undisputed fact is that the local post office has a package addressed to the defendant that contains 1lb of weed.
***This is not advice,*** but personally, if I'm the judge I think someone refusing to sign for a package addressed to them is extremely suspicious behavior. If the defendant testifies (defendants can always refuse to testify in US), the prosecutor should ask "about how many packages have you received by mail or UPS/FedEx in the last year?" Defendant answers "I don't know, maybe 20." Prosecutor asks "and how many times did you refuse delivery of a package addressed to you?" "Uhhh. Never." "How about in the last five years?" "Uhhh. Never." In my opinion that answer alone is super incriminating.
Then the prosecutor should get a mailman (preferably the defendant's mailman) to testify about how many packages he delivers in a typical day/week/year, and how often the addressee refuses to accept the package. I bet the answer is something like "it's extremely unusual for a private residential address to refuse a delivery. It almost never happens."
To me, and I think to a reasonable judge or juror, it's really a stretch to believe it was only a coincidence that the defendant refused to accept THIS package, out of all the other packages he's ever received, and given how unusual it is for residential postal customers to refuse delivery in general. Yeah, suuuuuure buddy, you had no idea what was in that box when you refused to accept it. Right.
So now there are two pieces of evidence against the defendant: drugs addressed to defendant, and defendant exhibiting extremely unusual behavior when first presented with the package. This still might not be enough to get a conviction if there's no other evidence, but if there is anything else about the defendant that makes it seem likely he's involved with drugs, I think we're getting to the point where a typical judge or juror is going to think the defendant is full of shit and would convict.
Now instead let's assume the defendant got a knock at the door (knowing it's the mailman with the package) and instead simply doesn't answer the door. Mailman leaves a note instructing defendant to pick up a package at the post office. Defendant goes there the next day, waits in line and signs for the package at the counter. Cops come out of the woodwork and arrest him. Defendant behaves like a smart defendant and says nothing beyond "what's going on?" and "i have no idea what you're talking about" then shuts up and doesn't say another word.
Now the only evidence against the defendant is drugs addressed to him and the fact that the defendant went to the post office with a note he got from the mailman. I think a reasonable judge or juror would say "well of course anyone who gets a note from the mailman that they have a package waiting will go to the post office to pick it up." There is nothing the least bit suspicious or incriminating about going to the post office after you've received a note saying "go to the post office."
Absent any other evidence against the defendant, I think there are many other reasonable explanations for why drugs were addressed to him. Maybe a friend or girlfriend used his name to get drugs delivered and was planning to get to the package before the defendant did. Maybe it was mistaken identity - sender tried to send it to someone with a similar name but got the wrong address from the directory/internet. Maybe it was someone with a vendetta willing to lose a few thousand dollars to get the defendant in trouble. Who knows. But the credibility of any of these alternative stories goes out the window if the defendant freaked out and refused delivery instead of acting like a normal person receiving a normal package.
I think if you're getting a CD it's pretty likely you'll get arrested or at least detained and questioned. Don't say or do anything to incriminate yourself. Personally, I think refusing delivery is odd behavior and I would consider it incriminating.
Thank you for that interesting point, i also thought about this, every normal person would just sign the package and say something like "oh i didn't expect a package", so i think the only think that really counts is that you have a CLEAN HOUSE, so that there is not enough evidence to charge you!
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He's something that will blow your CD minds. I went to High School with a guy who is a morphine addict and about a week ago the conversation turned to CD's. Well it turns out you don't have to sign for shit. As soon as that package goes in the house then your fucked. Say you have a 5 year old. The child opens the door and the "postal carrier" gives the child the package. 5 min later you got 20 cops surrounding you place. Or say the front desk at you apartment complex signs for it and you take it from them and bring in into your complex. Bam - It's through the door and you are are majorly fucked.
By the way this guy has done about 15 CD's and has
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He's something that will blow your CD minds. I went to High School with a guy who is a morphine addict and about a week ago the conversation turned to CD's. Well it turns out you don't have to sign for shit. As soon as that package goes in the house then your fucked. Say you have a 5 year old. The child opens the door and the "postal carrier" gives the child the package. 5 min later you got 20 cops surrounding you place. Or say the front desk at you apartment complex signs for it and you take it from them and bring in into your complex. Bam - It's through the door and you are are majorly fucked.
By the way this guy has done about 15 CD's and has
A counter argument to this that I've heard from a few different people is that you should accept the package and then let it sit on your counter for a while; don't open it. If you open it and hide it away wherever you put your drugs and they bust in on you you're fucked. If you don't open it and they bust in you can still claim you don't know what it is (assuming you have a clean house).
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A counter argument to this that I've heard from a few different people is that you should accept the package and then let it sit on your counter for a while; don't open it. If you open it and hide it away wherever you put your drugs and they bust in on you you're fucked. If you don't open it and they bust in you can still claim you don't know what it is (assuming you have a clean house).
[/quote]
Actually this exact method has been tried and done by a guy working in a shelter house, he was the overnight manager or something and he had an Oz of heroin delivered to him, he did exact what you said above, denied, denied, denied, but they still put him away for a good few years, too tired to find link to the topic but its in here somewhere, one way your argument is good, another not, don't know which way to turn.
Cheers
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Think about this scenario before you take the lawyer's (did you pass the bar?) self incriminating legal advice to heart..Why would anyone sign for an unexpected package addressed to them from a weird country/city? I would argue that a reasonable person would be confused and or extremely suspicions if a mailman/cop descended upon their property insisting to sign from something that they have no idea about...I have not had to sign for any online purchase in a long time;if ever. Even items ,like an expensive watch were dropped to my door.The mail isn't a fucking lottery where random packages are sent to people with money and/or expensive items...You are either expecting something or not. If not then you will recognize the name or origin.
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retarded. its suspicious if you say... um.. i wasnt expecting anything, so im not signing it!. that makes you suspicious. signing a package w/o the contents visible cant make you guilty.
you reallt wanna cover your ass.. just say, "um.. i wasnt expecting anything, but ok, and sign." now your postman/cop in disguise is a witness that you indeed claimed you were not expecting any package, nevermind one to sign for.
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A counter argument to this that I've heard from a few different people is that you should accept the package and then let it sit on your counter for a while; don't open it. If you open it and hide it away wherever you put your drugs and they bust in on you you're fucked. If you don't open it and they bust in you can still claim you don't know what it is (assuming you have a clean house).
Actually this exact method has been tried and done by a guy working in a shelter house, he was the overnight manager or something and he had an Oz of heroin delivered to him, he did exact what you said above, denied, denied, denied, but they still put him away for a good few years, too tired to find link to the topic but its in here somewhere, one way your argument is good, another not, don't know which way to turn.
Cheers
[/quote]
I cannot remember where that article is but I also read it. Not opening the package did not save this guy, but it didn't hurt him either. What did hurt him was the fact that he was under surveillance and they saw him through his window looking very closely at the package before setting it down, and then using a mirror pointing out of the window to see if people were watching... Or something like that. Not to mention all the other evidence that led them to follow him in the first place.
If there was no other evidence than the package, absolutely none... Then upon being raided, the package being open or not would probably be relevant to your defense in court. Far from a sure thing, but if you have a drug package and are half-expecting to be raided, it surely can't hurt to leave it on the side unopened. If it's opened, then your only defense is "Oh fair enough guys but actually I was just about to come to the station with it so chill out yeah?"
@ruby123 - I don't know where you live but where I live it would be bizarre to refuse a package. If I saw a neighbour doing this I would remember that it had happened and would probably talk to friends about it as a "weird thing I saw this morning." If a postman comes to my door right this second with a package in my name that requires a signature then I would accept it without hesitation, even though I have not ordered anything... Even if it were from a country I had never ordered a single thing from. In reality, I wouldn't even think to look about the origin of the package until I had signed and the postman had gone. And then I'd be excited to open it.
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Considering the amount of perceived danger from terrorism/crime that the general public typically assumes; I would find it very suspicious to be receiving an unknown package out of the blue. I would assume that most people or at least some of them on the road do not have a totally clean name. If you are involved in any activity for which the local LEOs are aware about, signing for a package could be a nail in the coffin.Yeah, with a really good lawyer and thousands of dollars you could possibly beat the charges.But why subject yourself to the anguish,expense and everything else getting locked up entails. These comments are from an American perspective.
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Fair enough, I can't argue with that if that's how people respond to unexpected packages where you are. I know fear of crime/terrorism is bad in america, but damn guys. Do you really think about "terrorism" when you get a surprise in the mail? Opening an unexpected package is a great feeling, it's like someone turning up to your house and saying merry christmas but it can happen at any time!
I suppose the rule becomes... Respond to an unexpected package as you would expect your non-criminal neighbours to do.
[Disclaimer: Based on abstract logic and the advice of others, not personal experience or knowledge about the legal system]
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Fair enough, I can't argue with that if that's how people respond to unexpected packages where you are. I know fear of crime/terrorism is bad in america, but damn guys. Do you really think about "terrorism" when you get a surprise in the mail? Opening an unexpected package is a great feeling, it's like someone turning up to your house and saying merry christmas but it can happen at any time!
I suppose the rule becomes... Respond to an unexpected package as you would expect your non-criminal neighbours to do.
[Disclaimer: Based on abstract logic and the advice of others, not personal experience or knowledge about the legal system]
I personally wouldn't suspect an act of terrorism ,if I received a weird unknown package in the mail.My first suspicion would be possibly blackmail or something along that lines.The general American public has a fear of a shadowy unknown terrorist, hell bent on destruction drilled into them daily by the corporate media. With the anthrax attacks 10 years ago, and more recently the Boston bombing combined with the ricin mailings, I would think that most people are more reluctant to just assume ownership of anything randomly received in the mail. I mean what is the first question you are asked when checking in at an airport: "Have you been asked or are you carrying any unknown bags from someone" Not signing for a package containing contraband should be common sense...Unfortunately street smarts aren't learned in school or in a book.
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You should ask your lawyer... If he was receiving a pound of weed, or 100g mdma, or whatever.... If he was expecting that, and there was no other evidence against him (clean house, clean computer, etc.) and there was a knock at the door asking for a signature, and he believed there was a good chance of this being a CD, would he sign for it or not? If you could have him talk you through EXACTLY what he would do, at every stage, that would be just grand!
I understand you might not be able to ask these sorts of questions without drawing suspicion. But if it comes up again, would be great info to have. If I am ever asked to sign for an SR package, I will not do it. However, if I was a cop, *not* signing would be a much bigger red flag to me than signing would be. Indeed, it would be *the* confirmation I needed. Is this one of those instances where courts simply work contrary to instinct, and what flies by logic simply won't fly in courst? Or maybe it doesn't really matter either way, the fact it's coming to you means you're pretty fucked?
I'm a lawyer and as I said in an earlier post, there are no black and white tests on this issue - it really just boils down to how much evidence there is against you. In the US there is a very strong presumption of innocence, meaning that you can't be convicted just because you're "probably guilty." It's more like you can only be convicted if there is no other reasonable explanation for how the drugs ended up at your house. Note that you might get arrested just because the cops think you're probably guilty, but a conviction is a completely different issue.
So let's look at this like a judge looking at a new case, where all he knows about the case are the facts set forth in the criminal complaint. The only undisputed fact is that the local post office has a package addressed to the defendant that contains 1lb of weed.
***This is not advice,*** but personally, if I'm the judge I think someone refusing to sign for a package addressed to them is extremely suspicious behavior. If the defendant testifies (defendants can always refuse to testify in US), the prosecutor should ask "about how many packages have you received by mail or UPS/FedEx in the last year?" Defendant answers "I don't know, maybe 20." Prosecutor asks "and how many times did you refuse delivery of a package addressed to you?" "Uhhh. Never." "How about in the last five years?" "Uhhh. Never." In my opinion that answer alone is super incriminating.
Then the prosecutor should get a mailman (preferably the defendant's mailman) to testify about how many packages he delivers in a typical day/week/year, and how often the addressee refuses to accept the package. I bet the answer is something like "it's extremely unusual for a private residential address to refuse a delivery. It almost never happens."
To me, and I think to a reasonable judge or juror, it's really a stretch to believe it was only a coincidence that the defendant refused to accept THIS package, out of all the other packages he's ever received, and given how unusual it is for residential postal customers to refuse delivery in general. Yeah, suuuuuure buddy, you had no idea what was in that box when you refused to accept it. Right.
So now there are two pieces of evidence against the defendant: drugs addressed to defendant, and defendant exhibiting extremely unusual behavior when first presented with the package. This still might not be enough to get a conviction if there's no other evidence, but if there is anything else about the defendant that makes it seem likely he's involved with drugs, I think we're getting to the point where a typical judge or juror is going to think the defendant is full of shit and would convict.
Now instead let's assume the defendant got a knock at the door (knowing it's the mailman with the package) and instead simply doesn't answer the door. Mailman leaves a note instructing defendant to pick up a package at the post office. Defendant goes there the next day, waits in line and signs for the package at the counter. Cops come out of the woodwork and arrest him. Defendant behaves like a smart defendant and says nothing beyond "what's going on?" and "i have no idea what you're talking about" then shuts up and doesn't say another word.
Now the only evidence against the defendant is drugs addressed to him and the fact that the defendant went to the post office with a note he got from the mailman. I think a reasonable judge or juror would say "well of course anyone who gets a note from the mailman that they have a package waiting will go to the post office to pick it up." There is nothing the least bit suspicious or incriminating about going to the post office after you've received a note saying "go to the post office."
Absent any other evidence against the defendant, I think there are many other reasonable explanations for why drugs were addressed to him. Maybe a friend or girlfriend used his name to get drugs delivered and was planning to get to the package before the defendant did. Maybe it was mistaken identity - sender tried to send it to someone with a similar name but got the wrong address from the directory/internet. Maybe it was someone with a vendetta willing to lose a few thousand dollars to get the defendant in trouble. Who knows. But the credibility of any of these alternative stories goes out the window if the defendant freaked out and refused delivery instead of acting like a normal person receiving a normal package.
I think if you're getting a CD it's pretty likely you'll get arrested or at least detained and questioned. Don't say or do anything to incriminate yourself. Personally, I think refusing delivery is odd behavior and I would consider it incriminating.
why would there be no similar follow up questioning in your second scenario? the prosecution will likewise ask how many packages are delivered per month or year. then they will ask what was in those packages. then they will ask for receipts or other confirmation that the previous packages were legit.
the best thing to do is to obv avoid being tried in a criminal court. its still unclear how to navigate that with a controlled delivery.
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Getting random packages reminds me of another day of Hanukkah as a child.
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A counter argument to this that I've heard from a few different people is that you should accept the package and then let it sit on your counter for a while; don't open it. If you open it and hide it away wherever you put your drugs and they bust in on you you're fucked. If you don't open it and they bust in you can still claim you don't know what it is (assuming you have a clean house).
Actually this exact method has been tried and done by a guy working in a shelter house, he was the overnight manager or something and he had an Oz of heroin delivered to him, he did exact what you said above, denied, denied, denied, but they still put him away for a good few years, too tired to find link to the topic but its in here somewhere, one way your argument is good, another not, don't know which way to turn.
Cheers
[/quote]
The guy who worked at the shelter made ALOT more mistakes than that, like leaving evidence of prior drug packages in the trash around the shelter that the cops easily dug up, following post office employees around, using a mirror to spy on postal workers on their routes, and a bunch of other not-so-smart moves that scream "HEY, I'M A SKETCHY GUY, DING DING DING!".
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I don't know where you live but where I live it would be bizarre to refuse a package. If I saw a neighbour doing this I would remember that it had happened and would probably talk to friends about it as a "weird thing I saw this morning." If a postman comes to my door right this second with a package in my name that requires a signature then I would accept it without hesitation, even though I have not ordered anything... Even if it were from a country I had never ordered a single thing from. In reality, I wouldn't even think to look about the origin of the package until I had signed and the postman had gone. And then I'd be excited to open it.
Me too. I think 99.9% of the law abiding public would be happy that they received something in the post, shitting bricks and refusing to sign for it would obviously be more suspicious than just accepting the parcel. Who doesn't order at least a couple of things from online retailers each week nowadays anyway? Packages arriving aren't a big deal for most people.
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Go read your vendors reviews. Most people say they must sign for their package consistently in the thread. You might have been overly paranoid on this one.
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I ordered 120g. It's been a month and a half now, I'm not sure if it'll even come in....
Daaaamn. He refused 120g of MDMA! Does that mean some lucky bastard who happened to have his address as the sender is going to get a suprise package of 120g MDMA? Oh man...
Ah chit i have another one coming in too. thanks for the help jack n hoff. gonna clean and become a monk or some chit.
Daaamn. OP hasn't logged on in nine days and he still has another package on the way after refusing this one.
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Go read your vendors reviews. Most people say they must sign for their package consistently in the thread. You might have been overly paranoid on this one.
If he signed for the package from an unknown mailman and it was a controlled delivery then everyone would be calling him an idiot. If he wasn't supposed to have to sign for the package then he shouldn't.
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To those of you that bring up the point of looking guilty by not accepting a package that is a good point. However, avoiding a "triggering event" for the search warrant may be (probably is) a better bet, especially if the house isn't completely clean.
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I ordered 120g. It's been a month and a half now, I'm not sure if it'll even come in....
Daaaamn. He refused 120g of MDMA! Does that mean some lucky bastard who happened to have his address as the sender is going to get a suprise package of 120g MDMA? Oh man...
Ah chit i have another one coming in too. thanks for the help jack n hoff. gonna clean and become a monk or some chit.
Daaamn. OP hasn't logged on in nine days and he still has another package on the way after refusing this one.
OP never came back. He hasn't logged in for three weeks now. This sure doesn't look good...
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Hope OP is all good
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obviously he cleaned his house...
computer, para, drugs, any contraband..
and he is probably just laying low and trying to look normal.
they could be lurking on his IP and shit..
i am hoping he is just playing it very very safe.
=/ Domestic please.
+1 for your life OP.. hope all works out well.
/thumbs
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What about this situation, I live in an apartment complex that signs for everything, USPS doesn't even go door to door with packages, they just drop them all off at the front desk, which the front desk signs signs for themselves.
I'm wondering what would happen in this case? I don't sign for anything and I can get my package from the front desk 24/7 or let it sit there for months if I wanted. It's not going any where. Are they going to camp my complex in hopes of catching me with the package in hand? I dunno. I guess they could set up a sting with the front desk guys, but that doesn't seem very legal or justifiable IMO.
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Wow, this is a very sobering thread. We all live on the hinges here on the SR. Hope OP is O.K.
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imo sounds like the post was just messed up... then again always trust your judgement and intuition in these situations.
I would have just let them leave a note if I had any doubt in my mind. seems like the amount he was ordering wasn't CD level anyway, CDs seem to be 300g+ (mdma) or kilograms that are badly packed. In my time on the road (1 year +) articles about CDs are always for that much or more.
a few months ago, a CD was conducted on a Tulane frat house in New Orleans for 100 g's of MDMA coming in from overseas. Couple college kids got fucked pretty early on in life.
So, smaller amounts are at risk to of being CD'd too
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imo sounds like the post was just messed up... then again always trust your judgement and intuition in these situations.
I would have just let them leave a note if I had any doubt in my mind. seems like the amount he was ordering wasn't CD level anyway, CDs seem to be 300g+ (mdma) or kilograms that are badly packed. In my time on the road (1 year +) articles about CDs are always for that much or more.
a few months ago, a CD was conducted on a Tulane frat house in New Orleans for 100 g's of MDMA coming in from overseas. Couple college kids got fucked pretty early on in life.
So, smaller amounts are at risk to of being CD'd too
A hundred grams of MDMA is not a little bit to the police. An ounce is not a little bit. That is the same thing that happened to the frat house on Molly Court in Florida. Both of those busts were a hundred grams sent from LL on here.
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imo sounds like the post was just messed up... then again always trust your judgement and intuition in these situations.
I would have just let them leave a note if I had any doubt in my mind. seems like the amount he was ordering wasn't CD level anyway, CDs seem to be 300g+ (mdma) or kilograms that are badly packed. In my time on the road (1 year +) articles about CDs are always for that much or more.
a few months ago, a CD was conducted on a Tulane frat house in New Orleans for 100 g's of MDMA coming in from overseas. Couple college kids got fucked pretty early on in life.
So, smaller amounts are at risk to of being CD'd too
wasnt from overseas
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What about this situation, I live in an apartment complex that signs for everything, USPS doesn't even go door to door with packages, they just drop them all off at the front desk, which the front desk signs signs for themselves.
I'm wondering what would happen in this case? I don't sign for anything and I can get my package from the front desk 24/7 or let it sit there for months if I wanted. It's not going any where. Are they going to camp my complex in hopes of catching me with the package in hand? I dunno. I guess they could set up a sting with the front desk guys, but that doesn't seem very legal or justifiable IMO.
I am in the same situation. I believe this setup creates an extra layer of protection for me. I never use vendors who require signatures, and typically don't check my mailbox for packages until very late at night. Additionally when I have customers come by I never show them which apartment is mine.
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imo sounds like the post was just messed up... then again always trust your judgement and intuition in these situations.
I would have just let them leave a note if I had any doubt in my mind. seems like the amount he was ordering wasn't CD level anyway, CDs seem to be 300g+ (mdma) or kilograms that are badly packed. In my time on the road (1 year +) articles about CDs are always for that much or more.
a few months ago, a CD was conducted on a Tulane frat house in New Orleans for 100 g's of MDMA coming in from overseas. Couple college kids got fucked pretty early on in life.
So, smaller amounts are at risk to of being CD'd too
wasnt from overseas
my bad, thought it was from Europe but apparently from Canada.
still the point was that 100 grams is enough for a CD
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It seems like the majority of CD's come from MDMA out of Canada. I'd just stay the fuck away from getting MDMA from Canada to be honest. Plenty of other options.
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Is there a custom title we can give to users who are probably in jail now? "Gone, but not forgotten"?
It seems like the majority of CD's come from MDMA out of Canada. I'd just stay the fuck away from getting MDMA from Canada to be honest. Plenty of other options.
Yeah, there are lots of good choices for domestic MDMA whether it's caps or rocks. I dunno if I'll ever make an international order of anything, shit makes me nervous.
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It seems like the majority of CD's come from MDMA out of Canada. I'd just stay the fuck away from getting MDMA from Canada to be honest. Plenty of other options.
Majority? All two of them? There was a rumor it might have been tipped, and/or the first CD guy's address might have already been flagged. Once they had one flagged package, it's pretty easy to quickly profile. How many get through daily? A LOT more than even get sold on SR. The bigger the quantity obviously the more chance of it being flagged. Some Canadian people have 100% delivery to the US with personal amounts.
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It seems like the majority of CD's come from MDMA out of Canada. I'd just stay the fuck away from getting MDMA from Canada to be honest. Plenty of other options.
Majority? All two of them? There was a rumor it might have been tipped, and/or the first CD guy's address might have already been flagged. Once they had one flagged package, it's pretty easy to quickly profile. How many get through daily? A LOT more than even get sold on SR. The bigger the quantity obviously the more chance of it being flagged. Some Canadian people have 100% delivery to the US with personal amounts.
I've ordered benzo's from Canada no problem, but it's the MDMA, specifically those 100g+ packages. They've been CD'd multiple times that we know of. I'm sure even more have that we don't. If you want to order large packages from Canada be my guest, but the facts are showing that the only people I can recall that have been openly reported as being arrested through SR, have came from large Canadian packages of MDMA.
In the end it's still the buyers fault for even signing for it or not taking the proper steps to assure security when ordering those large amounts. If you're going to play with big amounts, be smart about it. Sending 100 grams to a home mailbox with all of your info is asking for trouble.
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I think I got CD'D - Please check yourpostal services policy as you would not be posting - you'd be incarcerated
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I think I got CD'D - Please check yourpostal services policy as you would not be posting - you'd be incarcerated
Actually, one member here had a CD for a 100 grams of MDMA from LL and right after signing and bringing his package inside he immediately logged onto the forums here and said "I think I just got a controlled delivery" then they busted in his residence. All of his posts were deleted from the forum though.
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It seems like the majority of CD's come from MDMA out of Canada. I'd just stay the fuck away from getting MDMA from Canada to be honest. Plenty of other options.
Majority? All two of them? There was a rumor it might have been tipped, and/or the first CD guy's address might have already been flagged. Once they had one flagged package, it's pretty easy to quickly profile. How many get through daily? A LOT more than even get sold on SR. The bigger the quantity obviously the more chance of it being flagged. Some Canadian people have 100% delivery to the US with personal amounts.
I've ordered benzo's from Canada no problem, but it's the MDMA, specifically those 100g+ packages. They've been CD'd multiple times that we know of. I'm sure even more have that we don't. If you want to order large packages from Canada be my guest, but the facts are showing that the only people I can recall that have been openly reported as being arrested through SR, have came from large Canadian packages of MDMA.
In the end it's still the buyers fault for even signing for it or not taking the proper steps to assure security when ordering those large amounts. If you're going to play with big amounts, be smart about it. Sending 100 grams to a home mailbox with all of your info is asking for trouble.
Agreed. If I were to ever receive more than personal amounts(from Canada or abroad), it would definitely be with a completely different security set up. Not that mine is "bad" now, I just know I have less risk. Most of my orders are green anyway and they wouldn't CD me for a misdemeanor amount me thinks.
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What exactly are the ramifications of signing for a package/letter? I sign for stuff all the time at work for things I dont order or arent addressed to me. I think most average joes out there, when asked to sign for a package just blindly sign because the postman- deliveryman asked them to.
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What exactly are the ramifications of signing for a package/letter? I sign for stuff all the time at work for things I dont order or arent addressed to me. I think most average joes out there, when asked to sign for a package just blindly sign because the postman- deliveryman asked them to.
It is proof that you accepted possession of the contents of the package.
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It seems like the majority of CD's come from MDMA out of Canada. I'd just stay the fuck away from getting MDMA from Canada to be honest. Plenty of other options.
Majority? All two of them? There was a rumor it might have been tipped, and/or the first CD guy's address might have already been flagged. Once they had one flagged package, it's pretty easy to quickly profile. How many get through daily? A LOT more than even get sold on SR. The bigger the quantity obviously the more chance of it being flagged. Some Canadian people have 100% delivery to the US with personal amounts.
I've ordered benzo's from Canada no problem, but it's the MDMA, specifically those 100g+ packages. They've been CD'd multiple times that we know of. I'm sure even more have that we don't. If you want to order large packages from Canada be my guest, but the facts are showing that the only people I can recall that have been openly reported as being arrested through SR, have came from large Canadian packages of MDMA.
In the end it's still the buyers fault for even signing for it or not taking the proper steps to assure security when ordering those large amounts. If you're going to play with big amounts, be smart about it. Sending 100 grams to a home mailbox with all of your info is asking for trouble.
I'm not sure if LL's packages used to require signature or not (he didn't say either way on this vendor page) but a signature isn't required for a controlled delivery. One of the CDs was a 500g order and they just put it in the mailbox and waited.
I'm guessing that the 500g package is the one that they caught which made it easier for them to find the 100g packages but I don't know and it doesn't really matter. Fact is that most of the drugs coming into the US are coming from Canada and customs knows this. Also, many shipments from Canada go through customs in San Francisco and those fags love to screw us.
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It seems like the majority of CD's come from MDMA out of Canada. I'd just stay the fuck away from getting MDMA from Canada to be honest. Plenty of other options.
Majority? All two of them? There was a rumor it might have been tipped, and/or the first CD guy's address might have already been flagged. Once they had one flagged package, it's pretty easy to quickly profile. How many get through daily? A LOT more than even get sold on SR. The bigger the quantity obviously the more chance of it being flagged. Some Canadian people have 100% delivery to the US with personal amounts.
I've ordered benzo's from Canada no problem, but it's the MDMA, specifically those 100g+ packages. They've been CD'd multiple times that we know of. I'm sure even more have that we don't. If you want to order large packages from Canada be my guest, but the facts are showing that the only people I can recall that have been openly reported as being arrested through SR, have came from large Canadian packages of MDMA.
In the end it's still the buyers fault for even signing for it or not taking the proper steps to assure security when ordering those large amounts. If you're going to play with big amounts, be smart about it. Sending 100 grams to a home mailbox with all of your info is asking for trouble.
I'm not sure if LL's packages used to require signature or not (he didn't say either way on this vendor page) but a signature isn't required for a controlled delivery. One of the CDs was a 500g order and they just put it in the mailbox and waited.
I'm guessing that the 500g package is the one that they caught which made it easier for them to find the 100g packages but I don't know and it doesn't really matter. Fact is that most of the drugs coming into the US are coming from Canada and customs knows this. Also, many shipments from Canada go through customs in San Francisco and those fags love to screw us.
so many packs get through and big packs i see like 250g 500g. how does this go through this easy! and they say our customs is the hardest!