Silk Road forums

Discussion => Drug safety => Topic started by: fuckoffehbuddy on October 25, 2012, 09:34 pm

Title: stupid ass teens
Post by: fuckoffehbuddy on October 25, 2012, 09:34 pm
http://www.wral.com/warrants-cary-teen-involved-in-lsd-sale-that-killed-apex-teen/11697353/

doesn't sound like lsd to me but wow these kids are fast to talk
Title: Re: stupid ass teens
Post by: sniper123 on October 25, 2012, 10:28 pm
Nbome? No way anyone would be selling lsd for five to ten dollars a hit. Unless that kid found a bible of acid in his grampaws garage.
Title: Re: stupid ass teens
Post by: Theaides on October 26, 2012, 12:36 am
Definitely NBOMe.

What teen has money to buy 2000 hits of acid?  Seriously.
Title: Re: stupid ass teens
Post by: psych0naut on October 26, 2012, 12:48 am
The lethal dose for LSD is extremely high, if we're talking about blotters it would be physically impossible to ingest so many of them. And by the way, the article talks about two hits. So it's sure it's not LSD. But they don't give a fuck about publishing pure bullshit.
Title: Re: stupid ass teens
Post by: ilovelsd69 on October 26, 2012, 12:57 am
I don't think NBOMe is the cause of the teen death, i have once snorted 5 mg of NBOMe and i am still alive.. I am of course not a teen but the worst thing NBOMe can cause you at high dose (like many drugs) is to make you vomit or being sick as hell, anyway i don't think it's possible with only two blotters to die unless each blotters are laid with extremely high doses of drug (4-5mg) which in practice is really hard to do..
Title: Re: stupid ass teens
Post by: Theaides on October 26, 2012, 01:02 am
I don't think NBOMe is the cause of the teen death, i have once snorted 5 mg of NBOMe and i am still alive.. I am of course not a teen but the worst thing NBOMe can cause you at high dose (like many drugs) is to make you vomit or being sick as hell, anyway i don't think it's possible with only two blotters to die unless each blotters are laid with extremely high doses of drug (4-5mg) which in practice is really hard to do..

Some people could snort a whole eight ball of coke and live.

Some people have died snorting 100mg.

NBOMe now has caused several deaths at small doses, it's already shown that there is danger in some individuals, everyone reacts to every drug differently.  LSD, on the other hand, has no evidence of ever causing straight up death like that, even at ridiculous doses (not from direct intoxication anyway).

It is possible the kid was on some SSRI or MAOI and those have particular contraindications with psychedelic drugs, sometimes dangerous or fatal with some RCs.  Really, NBOMe is so new we don't know shit about it yet, but we do know that people are dying from using it.  Just because YOU can take an epic dose of it doesn't mean everyone can.
Title: Re: stupid ass teens
Post by: ilovelsd69 on October 26, 2012, 01:07 am
I don't think NBOMe is the cause of the teen death, i have once snorted 5 mg of NBOMe and i am still alive.. I am of course not a teen but the worst thing NBOMe can cause you at high dose (like many drugs) is to make you vomit or being sick as hell, anyway i don't think it's possible with only two blotters to die unless each blotters are laid with extremely high doses of drug (4-5mg) which in practice is really hard to do..

Some people could snort a whole eight ball of coke and live.

Some people have died snorting 100mg.

NBOMe now has caused several deaths at small doses, it's already shown that there is danger in some individuals, everyone reacts to every drug differently.  LSD, on the other hand, has no evidence of ever causing straight up death like that, even at ridiculous doses (not from direct intoxication anyway).

It is possible the kid was on some SSRI or MAOI and those have particular contraindications with psychedelic drugs, sometimes dangerous or fatal with some RCs.  Really, NBOMe is so new we don't know shit about it yet, but we do know that people are dying from using it.  Just because YOU can take an epic dose of it doesn't mean everyone can.

You're right, i have heard that some people died after having smoked weed.. those people are just not physically made to take drugs anyway. Don't blame the chemical, blame the stupid kid that has sold this as LSD.
Title: Re: stupid ass teens
Post by: psych0naut on October 26, 2012, 01:10 am
You're right, i have heard that some people died after having smoked weed..

Please, don't tell me you actually believe that's true...
Title: Re: stupid ass teens
Post by: dss3i on October 26, 2012, 01:14 am
Poor kid.
Title: Re: stupid ass teens
Post by: ilovelsd69 on October 26, 2012, 01:16 am
You're right, i have heard that some people died after having smoked weed..

Please, don't tell me you actually believe that's true...

No i can't believe it because i have no proof but i have a friend that done a panic attack because of weed, his not dead but he needed to go to the hospital right away.
Title: Re: stupid ass teens
Post by: psych0naut on October 26, 2012, 01:22 am
No i can't believe it because i have no proof but i have a friend that done a panic attack because of weed, his not dead but he needed to go to the hospital right away.

You can just get some paranoia, there could be no need to go to the hospital, doing that is just listening to your panic.. I bet that was the first time he smoked or something like that..
Title: Re: stupid ass teens
Post by: Ben on October 26, 2012, 01:30 am
The lethal dose for LSD is extremely high, if we're talking about blotters it would be physically impossible to ingest so many of them. And by the way, the article talks about two hits. So it's sure it's not LSD. But they don't give a fuck about publishing pure bullshit.

I was thinking the same thing - if you were to ingest a fatal dose of LSD, that would probably require eating blotters to the equivalent of a phonebook.

I have no idea what actually happened there, but if someone dies as a consequence of LSD that typically involves something like the urge to hug a bus that is coming at you at 70 mph rather then the actual drug causing death without such trauma.

Indirect deaths happen with all kinds of medications though. I remember a report on someone traveling through Africa, who thought he had contracted malaria - not an irrealistic scenario on its own. The fatality resulted from this guy taking all the lariam he had left (4 tablets or so) at once, which is actually a sensible treatment if no medical care is available. This eventually leaded to a psychotic side effect, and this guy running around, eventually into a junction where he was hit by a bus that resulted in the fatal outcome of the whole ordeal.

Perhaps in this case there was a similar cascade of actions that killed someone, but i seriously doubt a recreational dose (or 10) of either LSD or NBome could be directly responsible for someones death. These drugs just do not have the potency to result in death even if taken in large amounts. I tend to compare the danger to that of alcohol: drinking one bottle of wine will usually end well, while drinking 10 bottles will usually result in death unless you throw it up before its absorbed. For things like lsd the difference between a fatal dose is closer to 1000 times than tenfold, however... so i don't see that happening by accident, unless someone falls into a reaction vessel producing the substance...

Title: Re: stupid ass teens
Post by: ilovelsd69 on October 26, 2012, 01:39 am
No i can't believe it because i have no proof but i have a friend that done a panic attack because of weed, his not dead but he needed to go to the hospital right away.

You can just get some paranoia, there could be no need to go to the hospital, doing that is just listening to your panic.. I bet that was the first time he smoked or something like that..

Have you ever had a panic attack? This is horrible man, yes you can calm down without going to hospital but after 30 minutes of seeing my friend suffer we decided to go to the hospital anyway.. The doctor told us this was the best thing to do if after 20 minutes the panic attack does not come to an end.
Title: Re: stupid ass teens
Post by: Ben on October 26, 2012, 01:51 am
Have you ever had a panic attack? This is horrible man, yes you can calm down without going to hospital but after 30 minutes of seeing my friend suffer we decided to go to the hospital anyway.. The doctor told us this was the best thing to do if after 20 minutes the panic attack does not come to an end.

Those can be pretty horrible indeed, drug induced or otherwise.

How people deal with them is very variable though. Some manage to simply let them take their natural course, other choose to interfere by taking, for example, alprazolam.

If you are prone to panic disorder, using hallucinogens isn;t the best idea to start with however..
Title: Re: stupid ass teens
Post by: lassr on October 26, 2012, 02:02 am
That kid is sort of a badass in my opinion. When I was 17 I sure as hell didn't have a cellphone or a P.O. Box. He most definitely was selling some sort of NBOMe or something as acid. You're absolutely right, what kind of 17 year old has enough cash for 2000 hits of LSD? I don't have that kind of power.

Apparently that neighborhood is where all the families involved in the tech/research industry live. New money suburbia with little to no crime. Kid had too much money and not enough common sense.  :-\
Title: Re: stupid ass teens
Post by: ilovelsd69 on October 26, 2012, 02:05 am
Have you ever had a panic attack? This is horrible man, yes you can calm down without going to hospital but after 30 minutes of seeing my friend suffer we decided to go to the hospital anyway.. The doctor told us this was the best thing to do if after 20 minutes the panic attack does not come to an end.

Those can be pretty horrible indeed, drug induced or otherwise.

How people deal with them is very variable though. Some manage to simply let them take their natural course, other choose to interfere by taking, for example, alprazolam.

If you are prone to panic disorder, using hallucinogens isn;t the best idea to start with however..

Does i said it was me?  ;D
Title: Re: stupid ass teens
Post by: psych0naut on October 26, 2012, 02:13 am
Have you ever had a panic attack? This is horrible man, yes you can calm down without going to hospital but after 30 minutes of seeing my friend suffer we decided to go to the hospital anyway.. The doctor told us this was the best thing to do if after 20 minutes the panic attack does not come to an end.

I've experimented slight paranoia from weed (on rare occasions), and I think I've seen it even in other people, but ok, maybe we're talking about something that goes beyond what I've seen in my experience.
But considering I know A LOT, i mean A FREAKING LOT of weed users, and I've never seen nor heard of something like that, I'll assume your friend is prone to this issue, as suggested by Ben.
Title: Re: stupid ass teens
Post by: ilovelsd69 on October 26, 2012, 02:18 am
Have you ever had a panic attack? This is horrible man, yes you can calm down without going to hospital but after 30 minutes of seeing my friend suffer we decided to go to the hospital anyway.. The doctor told us this was the best thing to do if after 20 minutes the panic attack does not come to an end.

I've experimented slight paranoia from weed (on rare occasions), and I think I've seen it even in other people, but ok, maybe we're talking about something that goes beyond what I've seen in my experience.
But considering I know A LOT, i mean A FREAKING LOT of weed users, and I've never seen nor heard of something like that, I'll assume your friend is prone to this issue, as suggested by Ben.

I have only seen this happens to one friend in my life, what is weird is that he was a regular weed smoker.. until that day. Sometimes those things just happens, you can live you whole life without that happening but it can happen to everyone some day as well.
Title: Re: stupid ass teens
Post by: kitkat82 on October 26, 2012, 03:24 am
I remember some stupid kid was on the forums here asking about selling some RC and claiming it was LSD and how he should write his business plan or some shity like that.

I hope it wasn't the same kid, cause we ripped that moron a new asshole and told him how fucked up it was to lie to people about what you were selling them, not to mention how it was fucked up to sell drugs to other kids.  I think this guy claimed he was in college though....
Title: Re: stupid ass teens
Post by: Theaides on October 26, 2012, 10:19 am
I think the point I was trying to make is that NBOMe is actually responsible in some obscure cases to cause fatal seizures.  This has been observed in the 2 years it's been circulating.

LSD has been around since FOREVER and there is not a single death by toxicity recorded.
Title: Re: stupid ass teens
Post by: Ben on October 27, 2012, 01:40 am
Such are the dangers of taking research chemicals like nbome and also sybtgetuc cannabinoids.

LSD is a drug that has been around for decades with well documented research published.

Things like 25-nbome do not have that big of an investigational background, so adverse effects could be worse. I'd suggest extreme caution on any research compound like that since you are basically volunteering for a human trial if you take them.
Title: Re: stupid ass teens
Post by: dss3i on October 27, 2012, 04:27 am
Such are the dangers of taking research chemicals like nbome and also sybtgetuc cannabinoids.

LSD is a drug that has been around for decades with well documented research published.

Things like 25-nbome do not have that big of an investigational background, so adverse effects could be worse. I'd suggest extreme caution on any research compound like that since you are basically volunteering for a human trial if you take them.

Yeah, if they were in a medical trial being being tested as medicine you'd get big ass money for taking them.
Title: Re: stupid ass teens
Post by: Ben on October 29, 2012, 02:15 am
Actually the amount of money involved in partaking in such tests is not that large - perhaps a few 100 to a couple of thousand dollars depending on what type of tests will be required.

These drugs are not candidates for any such official drug trials though - they have no value to the pharma industry at all. "Tripping you balls off" may be considered a desirable effect on SR, in the world of pharmacology it is considered a severe side effect making the drug unsuitable for a large market, and dropping it from further development.

Big pharma has shifted away from compounds that make you feel better. I suppose the last successfully introduced substance would be xanax, whicb received great praise from its testers and initial users. After that, the shift has been towards SSRI's that have been marketed towards all kinds of conditions, from serious depression to smoking cessation to dealing with mourning. SSRI's are very useful compounds in some cases, but i strongly feel they are prescribed too easily nowadays, considering their very unpleasant side effects that present in a very large portion of patients.
Title: Re: stupid ass teens
Post by: microRNA on October 29, 2012, 03:47 am
the main difference between lsd and the other RC psychedelics in regard to safety is that NORMAL doses are essentially non-toxic and have absolutely no risk of death. for things like 2c-t-7 and now evidently nbomes their is a risk at doses close to recreational for fatal effects. this is one reason other psychedelics should absolutely never be passed off as lsd

there is however a very very small risk of potentially fatal consequences from extreme overdoses with lsd even though this is beyond rare and generally even crazy high overdoses are still not fatal

there are actually a couple cases of lsd overdoses causing death and multiple others of producing dangerous, potentially deadly, situations that required medical intervention and without which those individuals may have also died. these were incredibly high doses, not just mild overdoses

the two reports of death:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/4043895
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/845494 and https://www.erowid.org/references/refs_view.php?ID=1389

a report that describes 8 people who snorted lsd accidentally and required medical treatment but all survived
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1129381/

a case of extreme hyperthermia caused by lsd that could have easily been fatal but fortunately received treatment:
https://www.erowid.org/references/refs_view.php?ID=5197

and for the topic of weed and anxiety - i was a daily smoker until recently, now i have essentially stopped smoking weed unfortunately due to panic attacks it was causing. occasionally (especially for my nausea) i will still use indica strains though, since it seems sativas produce more anxiety for me personally. i should mention i am particularly stressed out about something currently though, and worrying about that is almost for sure the true underlying cause of the anxiety, just exacerbated by smoking when i used to find relaxation
Title: Re: stupid ass teens
Post by: GonzosGlitch on October 29, 2012, 11:28 pm
I believe an incredibly vast majority of chem-related o.d.s are due to other pre-existing physical ailments or deficiencies... its often contributed to the chem itself as then it opens the door for media attack and legal intervention against said chem... fear sells... not long ago when i was down south there was a local kid that died in a mcdonald's while high on 2c-i... the dosage reported and others who took it are all pointing to the fact that this chem was not responsible for the death, although it certainly may have contributed to the expiration. turns out the kid had serious health problems and probably shouldnt have been doing any substances for recreation. but of course the next day every news team had stories on the dangers of "smileys" (their new nickname for the deadly 2c-i) and how flippin dangerous it was and how one single dose could easily kill a first timer. maybe if they had severe physical complications but hardly by itself
Title: Re: stupid ass teens
Post by: Ben on October 30, 2012, 01:26 am
Sometimes it hard to attribute the cause of death solely to a substance. This could be the case if the victim took a combination of several compounds, including alcohol. Another thing is death due to consequences - something along the lines of someone taking a psychedelic compound, which causes him to think its a good idea to hug a bus thats speeding by at 70 mph.

These things happen by accident too. I remember a case of a tourist in africa that developed flu like symptoms, and concluded he contracted malaria. In response to that he took several tablets of lariam, since there was no hospital to go within reasonable time. So far this is not that foolish since the onset of malaria does produce flu like symptoms in some cases, and taking a large dose of a prophylactic like lariam can also be useful to slow down infection.

The downside of that chain of events is that lariam has rather unpleasant psychological side effects, especially in larger than normal doses. This eventually caused the poor guy to suffer a panic attack, resulting him in literally running for his life (in his mindset, that is). It ended when he ran onto an intersection, just in front of a passing bus, ending in his death right then and there.


With many drugs you have to evaluate fatality statistics: In which cases people die as a consequence of the substance as such, and in which cases it sets in motion some chain of event that results in death. With alcohol, for example, you could just count those that die of alcohol poisoning directly as the true number of victims. On the other hand, you can also include those that drink alcohol and drive afterwards, ending up dead in a crash. There is a significant difference between those two numbers, and if you mention 'so many percent of users die from using substance X' its important to know which figure the data is about.
Title: Re: stupid ass teens
Post by: Ensine99 on October 30, 2012, 06:48 am
could have been a DOx too like DOC or DOB I think those have a closer fatality to rec dose then NBOMes do. and DOC is legal to buy, and active when swallowed so it is a better "LSD mimic" then NBOMe
Title: Re: stupid ass teens
Post by: microRNA on October 31, 2012, 05:30 am
in reference to it being difficult to tell what actually caused the death that is a good point

pretty sure the ones i cite did toxicological tests showing lsd was the sole drug consumed but i may be mistaken

for the article about the 8 people i mentioned, some of those individuals had also taken cocaine, but undoubtedly given they snorted pure lsd powder thinking it was cocaine - such a substantial overdose is going to cause extreme problems physiologically but it speaks to the safety of lsd that they all recovered.

there was another report of death by lsd that i did not reference because although an overdose of lsd did occur immediately before his death - the true reason he died was due to injuries caused by police because the guy tripping was combative so they basically beat him to death instead of taking him to the hospital for help - so it was police brutality that caused the death and they tried to cover it up because they could blame it on the lsd overdose... talk about fucked up
Title: Re: stupid ass teens
Post by: Ben on November 03, 2012, 02:27 am
Such things can certainly be mistaken for drug related incidents. Even if there is no external force involved it is interesting to see what actually happened.

If someone takes a substances like lsd and then thinks he can fly and leaps off a highrise, is it the drug that killed that person, or just the painful encounter with the pavement? Surely that person is no longer available for questioning, but simply stating that the drug caused the jump is also over-simplification of the case.
Title: Re: stupid ass teens
Post by: vinegar_smooth on November 03, 2012, 08:08 am
To people talking about their friend or what not having panic attacks off weed; I have had a few myself. The most important couple of things:
#1 Realize that you're experiencing a panic attack. Know that you get them. Know that your mind is creating this sensation and that just because maybe you feel your arm go numb does not mean something is wrong with it. You can feel all kinds of effects.
#2 Have buddies. When you and your friends are telling each other that everything is cool, you're just high as shit? You bring each other back down. You just need to keep being reminded.
#3 Be aware of what you've eaten. I know some people get the munchies and all that but I would say spking your  blood sugar can definitely cause you to freak out, so don't do that. Conversely, if maybe you haven't eaten or something, you may need a little juice or something. Coconut water + fruit juice. This will help stabilize you. I have most often found that panic attacks may be related to various other chemicals in your body being out of balance. Lots of greasy shit may upset your stomach. An upset stomach is frequently an early warning sign.
#4 Slow down. Smoke that jay. But try smoking half now, half in a little bit. Sometimes this happens when you just ramp up too high too fast. Your body and mind need time to adjust. I mean, if you take 5 shots of vodka in 15 minutes vs 2 hours, which scenario is more likely to make you puke? Same thing. Panic attacks are kinda like puking from booze.
Title: Re: stupid ass teens
Post by: Ben on November 04, 2012, 02:19 am
That sounds nice on paper, but have you ever experienced a panic attack personally?

There is plenty of rational reasoning that would be calming, but rational analysis of the situation is exactly the thing that goes out the window when suffering from a panic attack.

Its a phenomenon very hard to describe to someone that never experienced it really. Mostly the problem is an irrational fear, and the person suffering from it will consciously know so. Unfortunately that doesn't reduce the sensation of fear by the least. With many fears you can eliminate the cause, like stepping away from a ledge if you are affraid of heights. With things like agoraphobia its much harder to get away from the trigger - doing so requires maneuvering through an environment perceived as hostile without any means of avoiding it.