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Discussion => Security => Topic started by: poopiepants on March 31, 2012, 03:47 pm

Title: Plausible Deniability and Evasion of Burden of Proof
Post by: poopiepants on March 31, 2012, 03:47 pm
The In's & outs of Deniability & Them Being Able To Proof You Had ANY Knowledge of things that might appear in your mailbox:

http://www.onlinepot.org/mailing_scams/96deniability.pdf
Title: Re: Plausible Deniability and Evasion of Burden of Proof
Post by: Reseller on March 31, 2012, 05:42 pm
I spoke with  Michele M. Leonhart  on the phone before lunch. As the director of the DEA, she said she doesn't give a fuck about SR.

In fact, she told me DPR sends her carepackages on a daily basis.
Title: Re: Plausible Deniability and Evasion of Burden of Proof
Post by: ron1n on March 31, 2012, 05:55 pm
It's all about politics.  SR isn't widely public and isn't all over the news, so our government just doesn't care.
Title: Re: Plausible Deniability and Evasion of Burden of Proof
Post by: midas on April 01, 2012, 02:19 am
Government can't steal (too much) money from SR market so for them, it's not worth it.
Title: Re: Plausible Deniability and Evasion of Burden of Proof
Post by: thedoctorisin on April 01, 2012, 06:44 am
Government can't steal (too much) money from SR market so for them, it's not worth it.

My I suggest that you change your perspective?

Why is this about the govn't and money... What if it's about a politician (or group of) trying to make a name for themselves in an election year?  You have someone who wants to put a feather in their cap and say "Oh, look at what good I've done", get a few headlines, and get a few votes in the end.

For someone who is looking for that kind of victory, going after SR *is* worth it and if that politician sits on the right committee they would have virtually unlimited resources.  Have SR tied to RICO (cause RS is a Corrupt Organization in the mind of politicians) and they can and most likely are throwing money at taking down SR.

Also, for a bit more perspective: If anonymous can determine that Lolita City servers were in the US by a coordinated attack and watching the TTL responses, and they did that with limited resources, just how far back can the Fed be?
Title: Re: Plausible Deniability and Evasion of Burden of Proof
Post by: ron1n on April 01, 2012, 07:00 am
If a government tries to bring SR to the public, it will cause an outrage.  Then they will have to do something about it.  Most likely, they will fail, and then it will be a massive failure.  I don't think any country would want that.
Title: Re: Plausible Deniability and Evasion of Burden of Proof
Post by: Laughing Man on April 01, 2012, 07:12 am
It's all about politics.  SR isn't widely public and isn't all over the news, so our government just doesn't care.
What? SR is extremely public and has been on some major online news outlets. The government cares and would love to shut it down but the technology makes it hard.
Title: Re: Plausible Deniability and Evasion of Burden of Proof
Post by: cacoethes on April 01, 2012, 10:27 pm
What are you guys doing on your computers that would require you to dump it into a bucket of water, hydrochloric and hydroflouric acids?

Would it not just be easier to use Liberte or something similar?  Nothing written to your hard drive.  Quick shut down.  RAM cleared on exit.  Easily hidden, or destroyed in seconds...
Title: Re: Plausible Deniability and Evasion of Burden of Proof
Post by: Laughing Man on April 01, 2012, 10:33 pm
What are you guys doing on your computers that would require you to dump it into a bucket of water, hydrochloric and hydroflouric acids?

Would it not just be easier to use Liberte or something similar?  Nothing written to your hard drive.  Quick shut down.  RAM cleared on exit.  Easily hidden, or destroyed in seconds...
In the US/UK you could be forced to give up your password.
Title: Re: Plausible Deniability and Evasion of Burden of Proof
Post by: thedoctorisin on April 02, 2012, 03:00 am
If a government tries to bring SR to the public, it will cause an outrage.  Then they will have to do something about it.  Most likely, they will fail, and then it will be a massive failure.  I don't think any country would want that.

What do you mean if the gov tries to bring SR to the public? 
Title: Re: Plausible Deniability and Evasion of Burden of Proof
Post by: ron1n on April 02, 2012, 04:37 am
I'm just saying that if they start a "crusade" against SR that it wouldn't be good publicity.
Title: Re: Plausible Deniability and Evasion of Burden of Proof
Post by: thedoctorisin on April 02, 2012, 10:29 pm
I'm just saying that if they start a "crusade" against SR that it wouldn't be good publicity.

I think I got ya.

What your saying is that if the Gov made a huge public crusade against SR, and they failed, the public wouldn't support the gov because the govn't would lose face...

I could see what you are saying; however, if the people of the nation aren't enraged that the nation is still in Afghanistan I'm not so sure that they would care much about SR.  But that is must my take.
Title: Re: Plausible Deniability and Evasion of Burden of Proof
Post by: happyroller1234 on April 02, 2012, 10:32 pm
Even if the government or the DEA or whoever did shut SR down, the public would wonder why it took so goddamn fucking long.  ::)
Title: Re: Plausible Deniability and Evasion of Burden of Proof
Post by: cacoethes on April 03, 2012, 01:11 am
What are you guys doing on your computers that would require you to dump it into a bucket of water, hydrochloric and hydroflouric acids?

Would it not just be easier to use Liberte or something similar?  Nothing written to your hard drive.  Quick shut down.  RAM cleared on exit.  Easily hidden, or destroyed in seconds...

Whoops, I had multiple tabs open, and had meant to post this in another thread.  Now I know why it never showed up in that one...

Heh.  I feel like I've been walking around with my fly unzipped... My sincere apologies for the total derailment of this thread.
Title: Re: Plausible Deniability and Evasion of Burden of Proof
Post by: kmfkewm on April 03, 2012, 01:53 am
It's all about politics.  SR isn't widely public and isn't all over the news, so our government just doesn't care.

SR is widely public and is all over the news.....
Title: Re: Plausible Deniability and Evasion of Burden of Proof
Post by: ron1n on April 03, 2012, 01:55 am
It must be a regional thing or something then.  I watch the news every day and have never heard about it, and i've never come across anyone IRL that knows of it.
Title: Re: Plausible Deniability and Evasion of Burden of Proof
Post by: minorthreat71 on April 10, 2012, 07:39 am
Plausible "Deniability"

This is just about as dumb a "SWIM."  This website is full of legal misinformation.  A sub-forum might be helpful.  Plausible "Deniability" is not an affirmative defense, it's the equivalent of a four year old saying, "I did not spill the Milk."

Dont believe me: check Black's Law, FIndlaw.com, Google Scholar, Westlaw, or LexisNexis.

Or better yet, define the words individually then reconstruct the and see what you get. 
Title: Re: Plausible Deniability and Evasion of Burden of Proof
Post by: BongoBingo on April 10, 2012, 08:27 pm
What are you guys doing on your computers that would require you to dump it into a bucket of water, hydrochloric and hydroflouric acids?

Would it not just be easier to use Liberte or something similar?  Nothing written to your hard drive.  Quick shut down.  RAM cleared on exit.  Easily hidden, or destroyed in seconds...
In the US/UK you could be forced to give up your password.

Or they can come take over your computer while you're in the bathroom and copy everything in it's unencrypted state.
Title: Re: Plausible Deniability and Evasion of Burden of Proof
Post by: mdmamail on April 11, 2012, 12:10 am
The In's & outs of Deniability & Them Being Able To Proof You Had ANY Knowledge of things that might appear in your mailbox:

http://www.onlinepot.org/mailing_scams/96deniability.pdf

Don't open this through your browser, if you must read it download first.
.pdf files = dangeorus
Title: Re: Plausible Deniability and Evasion of Burden of Proof
Post by: Michael25 on April 11, 2012, 12:16 am
It must be a regional thing or something then.  I watch the news every day and have never heard about it, and i've never come across anyone IRL that knows of it.

Dude, do a google search on "Silk Road Marketplace". Then tell me it is not everywhere.
Title: Re: Plausible Deniability and Evasion of Burden of Proof
Post by: mdmamail on April 11, 2012, 12:21 am
I'm just saying that if they start a "crusade" against SR that it wouldn't be good publicity.

They already did last year.
Remember when those two senators were all over the news on a crusade against SR? Demanding the DEA shut it down?
Nothing happened
Title: Re: Plausible Deniability and Evasion of Burden of Proof
Post by: midas on April 11, 2012, 03:09 am
You don't see bureaucrats trying to take down Lolita City (CP website). First time I heard of it was during the Anonymous attack. Since then, never heard politicians talking about it in the news.
Title: Re: Plausible Deniability and Evasion of Burden of Proof
Post by: Lights Out on April 11, 2012, 03:19 am
The In's & outs of Deniability & Them Being Able To Proof You Had ANY Knowledge of things that might appear in your mailbox:

http://www.onlinepot.org/mailing_scams/96deniability.pdf

Great link. I found this reading extremely helpful. I think alot of Silk Road users could benefit by reading this information.
Title: Re: Plausible Deniability and Evasion of Burden of Proof
Post by: ron1n on April 11, 2012, 05:42 am
You don't see bureaucrats trying to take down Lolita City (CP website). First time I heard of it was during the Anonymous attack. Since then, never heard politicians talking about it in the news.

Someone smoking weed in their mom's basement is more important than thousands of people fapping to CP.
Title: Re: Plausible Deniability and Evasion of Burden of Proof
Post by: Delta11 on April 11, 2012, 12:52 pm
It's all about politics.  SR isn't widely public and isn't all over the news, so our government just doesn't care.
What? SR is extremely public and has been on some major online news outlets. The government cares and would love to shut it down but the technology makes it hard.
That's not exactly true, not too long ago they shutdown a ring of CP and all the pedos they caught were using the same technology we use if not better (TOR, bridges, PGP, etc). The only difference is that they have way more resources backing them up than the DEA does. If the government wanted to find DPR, I bet they could it would just take so many resources that it's not even worth it because there are way more dangerous local drug traffickers they have to worry about. I mean look at the Mexican Cartels, they're straight up decapitating enemies/civilians and no one is doing anything about it because of the amount of resources it would take, resources they don't have, I feel the same applies to SR except DPR isn't decapitating people and videotaping it for the public to see.