Silk Road forums
Support => Feature requests => Topic started by: cronus12 on June 24, 2011, 12:46 pm
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Lets show the world that drugs and weapons do not go hand in hand. I find the open marketplace idea a great concept, I find it great that people can find interesting and unique items otherwise inaccessible, and I really have no objection to weapons section, but it may be best for the benefit or SR to be gun runners. After all, having the DEA on the case of SR is one thing, but does SR really need ATF on their ass as well?
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Would have to agree. Dangerous items are licensed for a reason.
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Agree
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There's a difference between having a special weaponry department and having an "other goods" section.
My ฿0.02
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Then I will be the one to disagree on this. Some firearm sales on here could be completely legal (in the US, you can ship within your state of residence no paperwork or transfer in most states), which is more than you can say for most of the drugs on here, which are completely illegal in all circumstances.
Lolz, how's that working out for you?
As far as arguments that guns are intended only to harm, I would ask what the purpose of the Rohypnol, GHB, and cyanide being sold on here occasionally is. Fentanyl, sold on here as a recreational drug, has also been proposed as a method of assisted suicide, and I have also seen it proposed as a suitable poison for murder. I doubt most would argue that it should be banned on SR.
So hopefully we could agree that it's not about what you possess, but what you do with it, that matters. Guns are no different than drugs in this regard. As to the argument "dangerous items are licensed for a reason," I think the majority of the public would say that dangerous drugs are licensed for a reason, too.
Freedom is a not a game where you pick and choose your favorites. People should be free to possess both drugs and guns, though hopefully they will have the common sense not to use both at the same time. Silk Road can't regulate people's behavior with whatever they purchase, but it can give them the freedom to make those choices themselves. There are people in some countries who have no access to guns, and Silk Road enables them an opportunity to purchase arms they would not otherwise have. What they do with them is their choice, and we all hope they choose responsibly.
Here's an example of a legitimate use for guns, and by people who have no reliable means to get them: http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2011/06/african-village-vs-rape-cult/all/1
They are defending themselves from rape, murder, kidnapping, and theft with crudely made shotguns, and handloaded ammo. I bet they would appreciate access to some of the guns on Silk Road.
This site has the potential to be one of the best examples of a free market ever created. Let's not let it fail out of fear of government action. And let's be honest with ourselves as well, it has attracted plenty of attention without the guns angle being discussed. The senator calling for this site to be taken down was talking about drugs, not guns.
I retract my previous statement.
Introducing a centralised psych test to decide who gets access to what is not a good direction to go down.
I just think that on the whole, easy access to guns causes more harm than good. But you are correct about individual personal accountability.
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I disagree. I believe there are upstanding, good people who cannot, for whatever reason, easily procure firearms but have an urgent need for them due to difficult situations in their personal lives. Or maybe you need a firearm sent to a friend of yours who is in a situation that prevents them from getting online or making it over to a gun store. Or you're a fierce libertarian who doesn't want the government involved in the exercise of your right to arm yourself for self-defense.
I'm not just going to assume someone is purchasing a gun from me because they want to maliciously cause harm to others.
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The same can be said for documents. Sometimes we need to hide. I would love to have ID to get me where im going if the SHTF and I need a safe out.
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Fuck self defense, fuck murder, guns are freakin FUN!!
The rush you can get on the firing range is hard to match!
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I'm in agreement on all the libertarian points made...but I want to keep this site alive and doing what it does best...we aren't here to try to change the world, and we'll attract more and more harsh attention we take on other areas. People can start their own forums. All too many people are already up in arms over SR...all it would take would be for some juvy w/computer skills to aquire a 12 gauge, and go tune up the bullies in his HS gym class, and we'd have all kinds of groups on our ass...SR does what SR does...I suggest people start other forums for their other objects.
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I'm in agreement with phubaiblues.
I have a theory and a fact:
THEORY
I don't think the weapons sold on SR would find their way to people with an "urgent need for them due to difficult situations in their personal lives." I think they'd find their way to irresponsible ones. And personally I doubt that anybody who needs a gun to deal with a situation in their personal life should have one either.
Many people are taught to use guns etc responsibly from an early age. But these are people with access to somewhere safe to shoot and someone experienced to instruct them, and are unlikely to be the people who need to buy a gun on SR.
FACT
It will give SR's enemies a stick to beat it with, and lose SR political (small p) support from quarters which might otherwise defend it.
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I think guns should be allowed. In keeping with the spirit of SR, (do what you will so long as it harms no one) guns fall under that category because they can be used for recreation or self-defense against an aggressor. They can be used for ill as well, but so can a lot of drugs on this site.
As for improving our public image, I think we've done all we can. If we care too much about what other people think, then we've given up our spirit of freedom and allowed our minds to be dominated by others. Besides, in all the articles I've read about SR, almost none of them mentioned weapons being on SR, just the drugs.
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Well said RickyR...
The spirit of this community shouldn't be misunderstood. There are 1000 arguments and ethical debates in favour of and against guns/drugs and I believe they are on fairly even footing. Its a balance, like everything, and sometimes you just gotta look at the big picture and see that people will always be people.
One thing I love about this site is its pleasant aura of grey (while sober at least... heh ;))
Business as usual I say :D
I'm also with sandy on this one... guns don't always have to be serious. :-\
There are times when you feel the adrenaline rush... for sure!
There are also times when I'm just plinking targets in the open feild, alone, where I am so calm and appreciative of life...
can't really describe it lol
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OK this weeks round up.
CC's and identities= Bad
CP= Really Bad
Bad Heroin= alright.
Guns= from situation to situation, mostly bad.
Drugs=Always good.
Whats next to vote on?
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OK this weeks round up.
CC's and identities= Bad
CP= Really Bad
Bad Heroin= alright.
Guns= from situation to situation, mostly bad.
Drugs=Always good.
Whats next to vote on?
Mail-order brides. BachelorFrog needs to be just Frog. :-* :P
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OK this weeks round up.
CC's and identities= Bad
CP= Really Bad
Bad Heroin= alright.
Guns= from situation to situation, mostly bad.
Drugs=Always good.
Whats next to vote on?
Which is funny considering it should be more like this:
CC's and identities = really bad
CP = Neutral (if not for sale or production)
Bad heroin = Really bad
Guns = Neutral
Drugs = Neutral
I personally think SR should stick to drugs and related items though. What is the goal of SR, a truly free black/white/grey market, or to fight against the war on drugs? I somehow doubt most people here want it to be a truly free market, and I think if the goal is to combat the war on drugs it will gain far more political support to exclude more than just red market activity.
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Next up: Kidnapping and other non physical terror services.
^ Bad btw.
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Everyone has the ability to think on their own (for the most part), so whether they choose to buy or sell a firearm isn't up to anyone but themselves, you think prohibiting the sales of firearms on SR is gonna stop crime or something? You are 9 times out of 10 more likely to find what you're looking in a shady project than on SR, from what i can tell the firearms category is pretty dead, so it's not like much harm is even being done, quit your bitching and moaning and deal with the ideology of a free market trade where anything is readily available to one's needs...
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here in new york it's quite difficult to obtain handguns. i'd be more than happy to obtain one legally if i could, but since i live in the same house as my brother in law (who has a record) i can't. unfortunately, the company he brings around necessitates the need for protection. in fact, i've had a small revolver pulled on me once before because of this. i'm not going to leave any guns around unlocked and i don't have space for a floor safe to hold a shotgun. my fiance, my son and myself share about 500 ft/2
in new york, i believe if everyone had guns, "bad guys" would be a whole lot less likely to use them. look at switzerland. one of the highest rates of gun ownership in the world and gun crime is nearly nonexistent. with that said, i'm still looking for a pistol here on silk road....
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@jamesroy,
i've lived in nyc all my life and I disagree with you. Why would you want to risk this site's anonymity and entire existence - over your desire for a handgun?
You mention nothing about the security of the Market, or your concern for us as buyers.
Think outside da box - and think of this place being here for you - as a whole. Would you want it to go away via the government? it would flat out SUCK.
i understand it's difficult to get one here, but not if you don't know the right people and have the right money. IMO just stay away from guns all together.
take a self-defense class or something, they're offered everywhere for a fraction of the cost of a gun. we're here for the Marketplace - the freedom - not the
intent to harm. i understand and respect that you may be in a situation that causes you to feel you need this - but there are other ways to solve it.
Switzerland and New York City. Greatttt comparison. The ethic starts with the people - not the gun availability.
Not the country because it's "cooler" than us.
If you were to get caught, NYPD would fuck you with the weapon in prison, and then beat your face in with a shit coated unregistered weapon.
Bloomy has zero tolerance for it. NYPD will make you a skin puppet and toss you in the east river. Also lets consider if you miss and hit someone you don't
intend to....things are just waiting to go wrong when you go obtaining a handgun without permit. You could even get shot during the buy, or shot by cops
catching you buy.
Use yo' head, man.
If we legalized firearms in New York City, there would be 100,000 people in the hospital within the first hour, the next day and 50,000 on the street turned
into swiss cheese. Possibly you, by the company you say that is around. What's to say they're not on SRM themselves? I don't blame you for feeling this way
- but a gun is not the answer.
I don't know how long you've lived here, but this city is filled with anger and too many people. Not a good idea to make firearms available to them, or anyone
else with an anger problem ! :) There's a reason guns are so tightly regulated in NYC. Even the cops don't know how to use them shits properly lol
peace in the east
~btc~
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You know what the police hate more than illegal drugs? Guns on the street.
A cop will bust someone for heroin and they are just doing what they have to. A cop will bust someone with an illegal gun and be fueled with pride. When they take guns off the street, they know they are making a difference. Ask any cop if they'd rather catch a drug dealer or someone carrying an illegal firearm, they will choose the illegal firearm 100% of the time. I've been close to some police. They will do anything to get an illegal gun off the street. Number 1, 2, & 3 priority is guns, guns, guns.
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@Rubberbandman - good to see you jumping in on another heated subject - and bolstering our views here as to why guns are wrong.
You have good clarifications and ratifications. Keep it coming. We need minds like this explaining what's wrong CCs, wepaons, etc.
~btcf~
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a trip to coop city left me minus $400 and scared shitless. it's not that i haven't tried to find one locally, i'm still looking. buying a gun face to face is a hell of a lot more dangerous than buying drugs. you know that. that's why i figured i'd try silk road. i'd rather pay twice as much with less risk.
i do care about the anonymity of both buyers AND sellers here SR. from what i've read about the trade forums on AR-15.com, it's quite easy to ship firearms, especially specific models like the sig p250, where the firing module can be removed and sent seperately. the "gun looking part" is perfectly legal to ship and noone would have any idea what the firing module was if they were holding it in their hand. there's no point getting into this until an item finds its way onto the marketplace.
as for taking self defense classes.... that suggestion borders on retarded. i just told you how i had a .38 pointed in my face, in MY OWN HOME. you're telling me to swing at the guy? are you serious? i don't care how big and tough you are, all it takes is a split second and you're life is over.
i did consider stray bullets in the unlikely case the gun would ever be fired. i looked into glaser rounds etc... i'm also aware of the law enforcement situation. but at the end of the day i'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6. its as simple as that. said gun would never leave the house. i'm not a thug, and i don't plan on walking around with the grip sticking out the front of my pants. all i want is the comfort of knowing that i'm able to protect myself should the situation ever repeat itself.
i have a responsibility to protect my woman and my child. i will not be rendered helpless again.
btw, i know they do happen, but i've never personally seen a shootout here. most gun related crimes i know of involved one gun only. i pointed out switzerland because it's an interesting fact. one of the highest rates of gun ownership and yet nearly nonexistent gun crime... people are generally a lot less likely to shoot if they know someone will shoot back. no point in speculating on figures.
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As far as I can see the only argument for keeping guns on here is that it should be a true black market. Could someone please point me to the thread where the administrators say that's what they want it to be?
Otherwise, wouldn't transferring the risk of selling weapons to another site be more sensible? Eggs and baskets etc.
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@ jamesroy, I respect and understand where you've been. I have had a freezing cold .44 held to my head. it is your responsibility to protect your woman and child - but what i'm getting at - would you be willing to jeopardize this entire market because of your situation?
Please think outside of your own needs on silk road, this forum is here to advise all users on a friendly note. I resent your calling my self-defense suggestion retarded, but hey to each their own. I'm not a big guy, but I've never had a gun in all the years I've lived in NYC. I took 6 years of martial arts, due to work reasons I couldn't dedicate more time. Has nothing to do with how big you are, it's the mind over matter aspect. I have no fear going into a situation where my life is at stake, nor do i surround my self with such instances. Think about your root problem - surround yourself with better people.
Please apply that same aspect when considering the Market.
~btcf~
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I didn't mean to offend you btcfreedom. i just can't imagine trying to swing on a guy with a gun. it seems crazy. not to mention it would take many years and a lot of money and time to become proficient enough to even attempt a crazy maneuver like that. and i believe you're right about surrounding myself with a better group of people... my brother in law has to go. if it were up to me, that would have happened a long time ago, but it's an awfully complicated situation, even though it may not seem like it.
i didn't post to talk about my personal problems. they're mine and i must handle them the best way i can. my point is that SR is an open market where people around the world can obtain what they need regardless of the legality of the item. i like to think that most anyone involved in the drug world can find what they need locally. silk road prevents potentially dangerous encounters with shady dealers, snitches and feinds. feedback kind of forces vendors to stand by their product and do the right thing. that is the beauty of this market. i don't see how buying/selling guns will compromise the site. are you worried about the BATF? i wouldn't be too concerned. people have been buying and selling thousands of guns illegally through AR-15.com for years. many of these guns are shipped directly to the buyer without ever passing through a ffl. others are done face to face.
by the way, how do you really know who you're selling to? that guy you just sold a bundle to might be a 15 year old kid who has no idea what he's doing. maybe he rips open a couple bags and makes a huge line like he does when he sniffs garbage coke. or maybe he shoots a bubble into his vein. now he dies. is the dealer responsible for his death? he didn't push the syringe... the guy who sold the criminal the gun didn't pull the trigger either. who's to say where to draw the line? should we get rid of fentanyl? heroin? maybe even alcohol? they can kill people too. especially fentanyl. right?
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i pointed out switzerland because it's an interesting fact. one of the highest rates of gun ownership and yet nearly nonexistent gun crime...
just wanna clear this up. the highest rate of gun ownership comes from the fact that people who have to go to the army (17 weeks introduction at the age of 18, then 2-3 weeks every year until the age of 40) take their guns home while not in the service. also a sealed can of 24 shots (5,56 x 45 mm NATO) is taken home. if you break the seal without there being a war, you go to jail and pay a hefty fine. this is all changing at the moment, because there have been (for Swiss standards) quite a few incidents in recent years. Once the new laws have been passed, the country will have a very low rate of gun ownership. So basically while people do own guns, they are not able to use 'em the way the can in the US.
and yes, ban the weapons sales section.
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the military issued weapons are kind irrelevant. up until a couple of years ago any swiss adult could walk into a shop and purchase their firearms without any background checks. from what i understand, concealed carry was also legal without any ccw permits. so instead of 5.56 nato rounds out of a sig assault rifle they shoot .223's out of their personal rifle.
i dont want to argue about this online. i really don't care all that much. i just want to enjoy the same freedom that most of the rest of the country enjoys. if you're going to start banning items why stop with guns? this is an open market, no?
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It's not the rest of the country, it's the rest of the world, and I think that is really the issue here. I'd love to get a poll of where everybody is from but that might not be the best idea ;) I suspect most of the pro gun posters are from the USA, or Canada, or other countries where gun use is more commonplace. Places where you have the space to use them, and plenty of people know how to.
But there are many other nationalities using SR (mostly with higher density populations) where gun use is no longer common. People generally don't have anywhere safe to shoot or any training how.
Public knowledge of guns is almost entirely from negative press, and the media frequently get hysterical over it - far more so than drugs.
I'd suggest limiting it to certain countries but I think half measures would be confusing. I'm against. Keep it separate.
@jamesroy
I saw that you said you didn't want to argue about this online, and I hear that because I don't really want to either. You don't need to reply - I won't take it as conceding the point. I just wanted to address something you assumed that a lot of other people also seemed to.
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I don't think pissing off as many agencies as possible is a super great idea. You might as well be standing on their desks, shaking your peckers in thier faces, via Tor of course.
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I don't think pissing off as many agencies as possible is a super great idea. You might as well be standing on their desks, shaking your peckers in thier faces, via Tor of course.
lol
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LOL @ via Tor.
win.
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I'm in agreement with phubaiblues.
I have a theory and a fact:
THEORY
I don't think the weapons sold on SR would find their way to people with an "urgent need for them due to difficult situations in their personal lives." I think they'd find their way to irresponsible ones. And personally I doubt that anybody who needs a gun to deal with a situation in their personal life should have one either.
Many people are taught to use guns etc responsibly from an early age. But these are people with access to somewhere safe to shoot and someone experienced to instruct them, and are unlikely to be the people who need to buy a gun on SR.
FACT
It will give SR's enemies a stick to beat it with, and lose SR political (small p) support from quarters which might otherwise defend it.
+1
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i second that. both theory presented and fact are nothing but the bleeding truth. 8)
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The hammer will come down hard if you don't get rid of it now...
You can not defend selling guns on a drug market to anyone.
Drug use is a crime against no one. The war on drugs is dying its slow death.
Do you really want the headlnes about the latest school shooting to attribute the gun sale to SR?
No CP, No Guns, No Carders
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XM:
well put.
while you're at it come over to this thread and pump some knowledge into these fools.
http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?topic=433.0
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The gun sales section is a gift to those who would like to shift the emphasis away from the real debate that SR raises; about drug prohibition.
BTW 10 years this week since decriminilisation of all drugs in Portugal:
http://blogs.forbes.com/erikkain/2011/07/05/ten-years-after-decriminalization-drug-abuse-down-by-half-in-portugal/
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The hammer will come down hard if you don't get rid of it now...
You can not defend selling drugs to anyone.
Drug use is a crime. The war on drugs is dying its slow death.
Do you really want the headlines about the latest schoolkid overdosing due to taking drugs offered for sale on SR?
No CP, No Guns, No Carders, No Drugs.
There I fixed that for you.
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@Technician Drug use is not weapon use. Plain and simple. You're basically saying that a schoolkid being shot is better than a kid taking drugs in the headlines.
I can defend selling drugs because this market is in place for them. Selling drugs is almost 98% not intent to harm. Selling firearms however, gives the buyer 100% ability to harm, and the vendor 100% liability. Including increased attention that could shut down this market.
@bbjppbb explain how a gun section is a "gift" to the market as it attracts LE and the goverment 100 times more than drugs, and endangers more lives than drugs.
Ya'll need to wake the fucup.
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A dead a kid is a dead kid. It doesn't matter if it's a bullet in his brain or chemicals. The second amendment is heavily infringed upon by several states within the USA. Anyone familiar with California laws and regulations knows what I am talking about. If a CA resident can anonymously purchase a gun over SR that would otherwise paint the purchaser red had he or she bought it retail, then more power to him/her. LE is here, senators are after our heads. I've seen drugs that can be used to rape etc. on SR, so don't give me any of that "drugs don't harm" bologna. The thought of being able to purchase Hi-Cap mags without being questioned lifts a huge weight off a buyer's shoulders. After the pillaging that took place during Katrina, I see it to be perfectly reasonable for a citizen/home owner to desire easy access to defensive weaponry. If someone wants to purchase a gun to kill someone ASAP, there are plenty of other places besides SR to get one. For those of us who'd rather not travel down that shady road since we do not want the weapons for shady purposes, the SR suits us quite suitably.
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You don't seem to understand what we're getting at.
It does matter if it's a bullet in the brain. There's a motive behind it which says a million words about human civilization.
Senators can kiss our ass, so can the nsa and cia. SRM has resiliency which you should respect and not bash on this forum.
Separate the harm from the non-harm. Get it?
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Drugs can be just as harmful as guns, if not more so. Why would you tell senators etc. to kiss your ass, yet cower at the thought of the ATF? Many countries have a patriotic right to bear arms. Posessing a gun doesn't automatically make a person a criminal, while possessing many of the narcotics sold here can and will in many jurisdictions. Guns alone are not harmful, neither are drugs, it's what the end user does with them that sets that path. I don't see it necessary for the SR to attempt to predict what will happen with a weapon sold here. If the SR has to take guns off the market due to potential gunshot wounds, then they will have to take down drugs due to potential ODs and comatose users.
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@Technician, this is the last response to your one-minded posts. Silk road needs to take guns off the market to avoid attention by LE. You are clearly not seeing the big picture here.
Think about avoiding the transaction altogether - and no gun. Think about the ethics of a gun. To Kill. Re-think the ethics of drugs. To Experiment, Self-Medicate, and Explore.
Take your argument elsewhere, it has no validity in this forum. Understand the Market before spewing off like you are about your own personal views, and not the general safety of Market.
You seem to have no focus but your own views. We need to work as a community here to avoid attention by LE, and you're not helping. Wake the fuck up will you? This Market is exclusive and we are
very lucky to have it here. Don't fuck it up by posting stupid propaganda.
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The weapons section is pretty bare as it is, so I can't imagine how useful it'd be to anybody wanting to shoot up their school or whatever. I don't think that SR has much of a market for guns. Granted, I'm new so maybe the weapon deals were hoppin' at some earlier time?
It's really easy to get a gun in the US, they basically float around among criminals regardless of any regulations. Trafficking is big with guns—lots of gun shops "lose" guns that magically turn up in crimes on the other side of the country. And nobody really cares. If you want to be anonymous and buy a gun there's legal ways to do that. If you're a minor, you can have someone of age buy it and then do a private sale to you. If you have a criminal record, it's still possible to get ahold of a gun. So why would anyone in the US buy one off SR?
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what's easily acquired in one state can be next to impossible in another. Hi Cap Mags alone would make the section worthwhile.
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@bbjppbb explain how a gun section is a "gift" to the market as it attracts LE and the goverment 100 times more than drugs, and endangers more lives than drugs.
Ya'll need to wake the fucup.
Ya'll need to read the whole sentence ;)
The gun sales section is a gift to those who would like to shift the emphasis away from the real debate that SR raises; about drug prohibition.
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I read it, and you still don't make sense. Guns are in no way a gift, ever, anytime, anywhere
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I read it, and you still don't make sense. Guns are in no way a gift, ever, anytime, anywhere
People all over the world are really starting to get behind ending the drug war. People all over the world are increasingly anti-gun. Unless of course they operate a diamond mine or move a lot of wholesale goods through the mexican/us border. Then they seem pretty pro-gun.
i'm not even anti-gun really, just anti-psychos with guns or emokids with guns. They are a gift to those that would seek to shut this place down. People are tired of the government and their drug war. They are also tired of being shot.
I think its kinda comical that you have that HST quote on your sig and you cannot see how a gun could be a gift though. Just saying, I wouldn't have showed up to Owl Farm unannounced back before he took his own life with a gun....I wonder if it was a gift.
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Despite being very pro-gun, I've debated with myself the sensibility of having a weapons section on here for several reasons, but it in the end I think it should stay for these reasons:
1.) Law Enforcement.
The gun section really isn't drawing that much attention because its just not that big. The truth is that there are much bigger gun smuggling rings all over the world to worry about than person to person transactions. The US doesn't care about this section, because for the most part, its legal. Private sales without ID or background checks are legal in the majority of states and using the section for propaganda to draw up support for cracking down won't work, because most Americans are pro-gun. They see the drug section as far, far worse. The European countries that do ban guns, or at least require registration or background checks, aren't worried about the section because, again, its not big enough to draw their attention. Why devote a ton of resources for a section that appears to have the same 10 to 15 items listed constantly, with few sales to speak of? Most of the rest of the democratic world doesn't have the money or time to go after a site like this without the help of bigger countries. And again, the primary point is that everyone who is concerned with guns is concerned with large scale smuggling, not small time sales.
2.) Kids & Crazies.
The second argument I keep hearing is that guns shouldn't be in the hands of kids and crazies. I agree. Drugs shouldn't be in the hands of kids and crazies either. I don't think heroin should be sold to a 12 year old kid, but how do you know how old the person you're selling to is? That is the nature of the black market. You cannot always be sure and sometimes someone you think shouldn't have your product will get it anyway. The black market only exists when something is banned, taxed, or regulated too heavily. If the world had more sensible gun policies, we wouldn't have to have a no holds barred black market where kids and crazies can get a guns and heroin, but that's the world we live in.
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I just wanted to let all of you know that right now I'm masturbating with some of my guns while looking at stolen credit cards.
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;) That's great Ricky. I'm sure there's a medication for that somewhere on the Market. ::)
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Ill give my .02 btc on this:
Lose it. There isnt much interest anyways. If a gun ever gets sold trough SR (I doubt it, but w/e) and if it will ever be used in a crime people will be pointing fingers at SR. The media will say something along the lines of: "You see, those crackhead gun slinging junkies! Drugs are bad! This would never have happened if there were no drugs". And we want the media to give us good press. So lets give a signal. Lose the guns section. In fact, loose everything what doesnt have anything to do with drugs! No smut, no money laundering stuff no other things. Just drugs and prevention. Lets make a section which sells EZ-tests, seringes & parfernalia at a discount.
Anyways, that. (Oh yeah, Im pro gun by the way! I own one myself :))
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@btcfreedom- while i disagree with you, i can understand why you feel the way you do. however, the technician clearly presents a valid argument. we all have differing OPINIONS on the subject. why would you accuse of him of disrespecting this market because he disagrees with you? from what i understand, silk road was founded as an anonymous marketplace where ALL goods can be bought and sold freely. for obvious reasons it was soon flooded with drugs. SR was never intended to be a drugs only marketplace. with that said, please respect the marketplace for what it is and what it was intended to be.
@rickyrango- bodily fluids on merchandise may result in negative feedback :o
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1) I hate guns
2) I hate guns
3) I ain't got an argument with those that like guns
- Bit
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@BitShuffle
FUCKING PLUS ONE MY DUDE. 8) 8)
+1
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Can we add a poll to this?
I'm 100% against the weapons section, does it not state in the terms that you CANNOT sell anything intended to cause harm?
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Weapons can also be used to prevent harm.
They have no intent.
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@wattm you're beating a dead horse. everything regulated has a place to prevent harm.
(ie. regulated guns help enforce law, regulated medicine helps save lives)>
we're not even discussing what guns do. we're trying to PROTECT THE MARKET from unneeded attention from LE.
not a lot of people are seeing this clearly.
as far as your second sentence, I do not understand. What has no intent? Please explain.
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That's great Ricky. I'm sure there's a medication for that somewhere on the Market.
To make him stop or to make it better?
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That's great Ricky. I'm sure there's a medication for that somewhere on the Market.
To make him stop or to make it better?
Probably both, but I'm 100% sure he meant to make it feel better.
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It's been said: I'll say it again. Site's aim is to sell drugs. We don't want to attract any more heat...not from LE, not from anti-gun hacker groups. Saying that 'site didn't start out to sell just drugs...' Yeah, well maybe, maybe not...but that's the way the cookie crumbled, and selfishly, we want to keep site up and running...
I'm libertarian: arm everybody and legalize drugs: I'm fine with that. But we want SR to stay what it is...so I wouldn't waste a lot of time trying to change us....seems like once a week somebody comes on here wanting SR to be some sort of poster child for free market purveyors or *every* fucking thing...Nope.
Hey, I want a passport...can't get one...don't expect to get one here...oh well...off to OVDB....
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@RickyRango, your listings are clearly indicative you clearly don't give a fuck but to make your own buck. It makes me sad and should make everyone else pissed - that you could care less about OUR safety.
The fact you sell actual arms - and ammo on the Market - makes me sick to my stomach. I pray you don't ship that shit to some poor kid who takes another poor kid's life, or his own, or his parents.... I also pray
your listings don't attract LE, endangering all of us. Do either matter to you? Seems you just don't give a fuck as you've been following this thread, and are steadily posting weaponry for sale.
Your thick head's going to get us all in trouble. Don't even bring drugs into this as they do not leverage ANY argument. Don't you realize you're putting your own safety at risk as well? Or are you just ready for war?
I hope SRM admins come correct soon, and put you somewhere else on the internet. WE don't need the attention you're getting.
When it comes to self-centered, blatant peddling of harm-inducing gear - that attracts way too much attention to something we all value - it's gotta go. You've gotta go.
~b~
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I'm pro gun. I think everyone should have one a gun and carry it or have it within reach at all/most times.
That being said, the gun section needs to go. Those that argue against it(going) do not understand what is being argued. Yeah, we think you SHOULD be allowed to do it, but it's risks outweigh the benefit.
It's not like anyone is saying once it's removed we are bulletproof. It's just too risky.
Let's say you are transporting large amounts of drugs in your car. You think weed should be legal but would you light up a joint with the windows down blasting music just because "this is America man!, freedom"? Hell no, you'd mitigate risk. You'd play the fucking part.
The arguement is that it brings negative attention and brings greater risk to everyone here regardless of if we think it is "right" for it to remain.
You want to be happy(not in jail) or right?
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I agree with F104; except for the harm reduction issue. I do think that instructing on proper use, while not ideal, is better than nothing. At least refer them to erowid for dosing issues. But that's tangential.
More simple put: you don't play with your gun when you're high (at least I hope you don't!). Guns and drugs don't mix well; a big part of the reason Mexico is no longer a wonderful place for a vacation or retirement for a guy on a budget.
If you want to get SR busted, just sell something lethal to a famous or rich person's kid. Drugs are 99.999% non-lethal when used properly.
Guns are 100% LETHAL when used correctly. Think about it.
And lastly: I want my smart, friendly, well-stocked, highly-trusted sellers to have as hassle-free lives as possible. Kiddie porn and guns are anathema to that goal.
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I'm going to post seriously for a sec.
I know what I'm doing, and I continue to do it because I believe I'm not endangering anybody, only filling a need for those who can't do it any other way. My products aren't anymore dangerous than some of the drugs sold here on SR, and to say my customers are going to use my wares to kill children is nonsense. It sounds almost sounds like the hobgoblins the goons in power invent so they can do whatever they want to us. And provoking more government scrutiny? They've got enough shit on us already from their viewpoint. We already deal cocaine, heroin, meth, and a bunch of other drugs with nasty reputations. Will getting rid of firearms "un-provoke" them since they've already set their sites on us?
Whatever the case, if SR Admin gets rid of the firearms section because of an actual threat to SR (not a possible one), I will respect his decision. I love all of you and respect you for choosing to live your lives as you please, despite government scrutiny. If getting rid of weaponry will help SR at a certain time, then I'll welcome it to help the community.
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I'm going to post seriously for a sec.
I know what I'm doing, and I continue to do it because I believe I'm not endangering anybody, only filling a need for those who can't do it any other way. My products aren't anymore dangerous than some of the drugs sold here on SR, and to say my customers are going to use my wares to kill children is nonsense. It sounds almost sounds like the hobgoblins the goons in power invent so they can do whatever they want to us. And provoking more government scrutiny? They've got enough shit on us already from their viewpoint. We already deal cocaine, heroin, meth, and a bunch of other drugs with nasty reputations. Will getting rid of firearms "un-provoke" them since they've already set their sites on us?
Whatever the case, if SR Admin gets rid of the firearms section because of an actual threat to SR (not a possible one), I will respect his decision. I love all of you and respect you for choosing to live your lives as you please, despite government scrutiny. If getting rid of weaponry will help SR at a certain time, then I'll welcome it to help the community.
@Ricky I owe you an apology. You are bringing some really good words to the table, I retract my statements about you not caring for the community. This post clearly shows you are a human being!
I haven't quite seen a post like this with such leverage to put my thoughts in a gray area ;)
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I"m pretty much stone darwinian libertarian on guns and everything else. But I'm also selfish realist, and SR is here to make a profit and not get heat...heat from LE *or* activist hacker groups. They've both got bigger fish to fry, and we'd like to keep it that way. Problem with selling guns *here* is that it could get us more heat from either or both of these groups. SR's idea is to make a profit and stay alive. Anything that furthers that end is good, for me, anything that goes against it, I don't like. Other sites, like Black Market, got immediate and heavy interest from hacker groups because of their acceptance--in the beginning--of Child Pornography, and it cost them, and they quit it.
We sell guns, we might endanger the sales of the main product here. That's the only real argument against guns, but it's strong enough for me. SR isn't trying to prove a point, or be the vanguard of any political movement. IMO we just want to survive, and we need fewer, not more, enemies....
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I love guns and own several legally registered arms, but at the same time have a disliking of the weaponry section. We can sweat it out all day and night over why or why not guns are good or bad, but that's not the point. I don't think it's a matter of "IF someone buys a gun on SR and kills someone" it's "WHEN will someone use a gun bought on SR to kill someone". Could be today, could be tomorrow or a year from now or more, or it could have already happened for all we know.
To me it's the stigma that guns and drugs are always hand in hand with each other. DEA is already probably pissed off about the drugs which is trouble enough, so why bring other agencies into the mix. The more agencies and people you piss off, the more pressure will be to shut it down. Myself, I would be perfectly happy if SR got rid of all the rest of the crap and was dedicated to drugs only.
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You should be able to sell anything. With the exception of CP, anything with kids I am not comfortable with. Weapons are fine. WMD's? That's fine with me. If you are willing to put yourself out there like that. Game on. Buyer + seller = transaction. That's what it is all about. Want to buy a cocaine sub? Great. I just hope it is categorized properly. I don't want to weed through things I am not interested in. Ease up on the weapons section, geez. Put that effort into something useful. Say building up the gardening section. I don't know. Something constructive anyway. The only thing wrong with the weapons section is the lack of PGP usage and variety.
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Um correct me if I'm wrong (because sometimes I really am quite illiterate), but I don't think that the PURPOSE of the initial posting of this thread was to say that guns are bad, or wrong, but to keep the heat off SR. As it stands, selling and buying drugs on here is one thing that LEs probably don't like very much. But if you couple that with guns, and WMD (because we all know they existed with 9-11, har har), then we are going to bring EXTRA heat to this place.
Wasn't that the point? Personal opinions about the right to carry firearms aside, the fact of the matter is law enforcement will be more motivated to continue doing whatever it is they're doing, if they're also backed and funded and aided by the ATF. Duh.
My personal opinion, since you asked is that you look at any country (aka England) etc, where gun ownership is a fraction of what it is (and therefore access also) and you also see a fraction of the crime. That's fact. You can't dress up in emo trenchcoats and take out a school with a hand-knife. If you wanna "man-up" and go hunting out in the wilderness to get your wild game (which is the would-be excuse of so many "hunters) then use a bow & arrow...or better yet try and catch 'em and kill 'em with your bare hands.
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Wow, this thread is still active? How high are you guys?
1) this site is the Silk Road, not the Cracky Trail. It's for trade, not just to get high.
2) LE is here, deal with it. Anyone who thinks they will turn a blind eye to drug trafficking, but not weapons, is a fool
3) guns are LEGAL, drugs are not.
4) any kid can get weapons or ammo from the street corner or from wal mart, people aren't going to start killing each other now that there is an obscure site that may or may not sell weapons from the deep web.
I for one welcome weapons on the SR. I no longer have to deal with importing weapons past customs now that there are sellers within my borders. Sure I could go down to the gun shop, but why bother? Criminals and LE have decent weapons, why can't the rest of us. Get some standard capacity (30+) mags on SR please :)
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I for one welcome weapons on the SR. I no longer have to deal with importing weapons past customs now that there are sellers within my borders. Sure I could go down to the gun shop, but why bother? Criminals and LE have decent weapons, why can't the rest of us. Get some standard capacity (30+) mags on SR please :)
The question is, how high are YOU? Ever watch COPS? Law Enforcement, whether online, or in person, care MORE about WEAPONS than they do about piddly little cocaine gram, weed, and benzo transactions, you twat. What a moronic (and typical) attitude - "ooooh, because they have a big, bad gun, I need one too." You're the reason the ATF even exists, moron. And further, KIDS can't go to the street corner buy a gun and then go to Walmart and buy ammo. It's a tad trickier than that. Those Columbine kids got their guns from parents (who probably had the same attitude you have.)
99% of this site deals with drugs. Just because the name is "trade" doesn't mean 99% of the buyers want to have your small-cock-syndrome guns for sales, that will INEVITABLY attract more law enforcement attention.
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a trip to coop city left me minus $400 and scared shitless. it's not that i haven't tried to find one locally, i'm still looking. buying a gun face to face is a hell of a lot more dangerous than buying drugs. you know that. that's why i figured i'd try silk road. i'd rather pay twice as much with less risk.
as for taking self defense classes.... that suggestion borders on retarded. i just told you how i had a .38 pointed in my face, in MY OWN HOME. you're telling me to swing at the guy? are you serious? i don't care how big and tough you are, all it takes is a split second and you're life is over.
i did consider stray bullets in the unlikely case the gun would ever be fired. i looked into glaser rounds etc... i'm also aware of the law enforcement situation. but at the end of the day i'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6. its as simple as that. said gun would never leave the house. i'm not a thug, and i don't plan on walking around with the grip sticking out the front of my pants. all i want is the comfort of knowing that i'm able to protect myself should the situation ever repeat itself.
i have a responsibility to protect my woman and my child. i will not be rendered helpless again.
btw, i know they do happen, but i've never personally seen a shootout here. most gun related crimes i know of involved one gun only. i pointed out switzerland because it's an interesting fact. one of the highest rates of gun ownership and yet nearly nonexistent gun crime... people are generally a lot less likely to shoot if they know someone will shoot back. no point in speculating on figures.
Here's an idea, move out. Or, have your brother move out (his gun-carrying posse wouldn't be around). OR, leave the city and move to a small-town.
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Must be why senators and LE is after SR, for all the weapons that are being distributed....O wait, no they're after SR because of DRUGS.
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imho you could just as well go to any "open net" gun trading site, or a forum, or an irc chan, and get a deal there. SR isn't THAT much different from that option. it's also the seller's responsibility to make it legal - SR never talks about legality - it's just a marketplace.
*throws 0.02฿ at you*
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Yes, LE is here. And they are queer. What are we going to do about it? LMAO! F*N* PIGS!! Yes, we buy DRUGS and GUNS. LOSING the weapons section won't change that. If the weapons section is lost I suspect that the Home and Garden section will grow. No pun intended. Point is that (contraband) will be listed in another section mucking everything up. I will sell in this section. Someone else will post over here. Where's a person to go and find a gun? Back to the corner? "Hi. I am here to buy a gun." BANG! I have a new hole in my body and my cash has been stolen. Imagine that. No thanks. If I want one I know where to go.
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Many of you are missing the point. Nothing will get SR shut down faster than some kid shooting up his school or some terrorist opening fire in a mall with an illegal gun purchased on here. People are funny about things like that. If some unfortunate recreational drug user ODs, mainstream society doesn't give a shit. If the international news media finds out that some terrorist or socially awkward kid opens fire in crowded public place with a gun from the internet, we are done for. If we continue to allow people to sell guns on here it is only a matter of time before this happens. Lets be smart and take action before something tragic goes down and its too late. We are opening the door for both ATF and Homeland Security to try and come shut us down. Think about it... American (and most Western nations) LE and policymakers have a hardon for anything that could possibly aid terrorists. Opening ourselves up to that IN ADDITION TO the DEA is just a bad idea. I don't care if you give every infant a gun on his 1st birthday just don't buy them in the place where I buy my drugs. If you like SR and want to continue to buy/sell here, the guns have to go.
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I agree that weapons should be removed. I created a poll thread (http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?topic=1497.0) about if people thought guns should be removed from SR and, to my surprise, most people voted to keep the weapons section.
My goal was to get enough people to vote yes on removing guns and then perhaps get guns removed but it doesn't look like that is going to happen anytime soon.
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I love how everyone is campaigning like this was a democracy or something.
This is a private business owned by SR. If SR decides he wants to change policy for the better of his venture then he will.
Those of you who actually believe voting does anything but delude then vote with the only kind of vote that ever really matters....your wallet.
STOP using SR's site. If enough do so and express it's because of certain policies then SR would most likely alter said policies.
Otherwise quit bluffing and get back to buying and selling.
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Those of you who actually believe voting does anything but delude then vote with the only kind of vote that ever really matters....your wallet.
True that.
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i think... better drive the SR to be a cure for the society, by removing every harmful product like weapons, cocaine, heroin, etc
because many people are not ready yet for a complete freedom, i mean by complete "even you have the right to kill a man without having a court, only god judge you"
harmful drugs according to scientific experiments
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9c/Rational_scale_to_assess_the_harm_of_drugs_%28mean_physical_harm_and_mean_dependence%29.svg
PEACE LOVE & ALIENS ;)
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Honestly though,
Drugs (577)
Weapons (11) - Most of which are only parts. Do you even need to sell those on the blk market?
I don't see the necessity, nor the danger really of having a weapons section..
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OP should get off this site if he thinks only LE should dictate who can and can't have guns.
Guns need to stay on the site - everyone has a right to their personal defense. The whole point of this site and crypto anarchy in general is the understanding that this idea that some people (government) have the power to determine who can and can't have guns has failed.
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This is SR's market. This conversation has gone on long enough for him to be aware of what some of the opinions are. The "weaponry" section is still up, so SR has obviously decide to take the added risk (if any) of having that section. Because the "weaponry" section seems relatively small, we can also assume that profit isn't SR's only motive for keeping "weaponry" up. He probably has philosophical and political reasons for keeping that section.
The bottom line is: this is SR's market, it's SR's decision. If you don't like the possible added heat it brings to the "drugs" section take your business elsewhere. Don't support SR if you truly want to stop guns, or simply want to avoid the alleged extra heat "weaponry" brings. I respect SR's right to run his business the way he chooses.
Petition all you want, in a free market the most effective way to effect change is by taking your dollars elsewhere.
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hehehe, I just need to read this topic to see who could be rat. it is not your business to decide what people need or don't need, should they kill someone or not, watch your ass. all those who put their nose everywhere, they will report and seller of drugs, just they pretend they will not, because still they didn't succeed to do their rat duty. I am glad to see that owner of site didn't let others to make pressure on him. never believe to the people who make pressure about guns. government mostly misuse terorism and padophiles to break civil rights of whole society. one day they will put camera in our toillets and they will say: it is for your own good, we can come and save you in toillet if rapist or pedo do something to you or to your children. those who work for government, they use always such phrases, they just repeat what government repeat. that's how you can recognize rats.
so, buy gun, kill someone, governments kill children in oil countries in any case, to make profit for corporations which finance political parties... if gov can, why you could not?
in the end, maybe someone buy gun to kill pedo who touch his child or to kill other killer:) it is not business of anyone.
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i'm sorry, i was sleeping, this thread is still going?