Silk Road forums

Discussion => Silk Road discussion => Topic started by: numbering on August 21, 2012, 09:05 pm

Title: What prevents LE from being honeypot vendors?
Post by: numbering on August 21, 2012, 09:05 pm
hey folks,
I am sure it's been discussed somewhere else, but can't seem to find it.
What's the answer to the above asked question? ;)
Title: Re: What prevents LE from being honeypot vendors?
Post by: Tienamen on August 21, 2012, 09:19 pm
They could try, but they would never be allowed to actually fulfill any orders.  Verified vendors couldn't do this unless they were compromised.  Once a vendor has enough positive feedback, I wouldn't worry unless they start acting strangely...
Title: Re: What prevents LE from being honeypot vendors?
Post by: blowdrobro on August 21, 2012, 09:24 pm
They could try, but they would never be allowed to actually fulfill any orders.  Verified vendors couldn't do this unless they were compromised.  Once a vendor has enough positive feedback, I wouldn't worry unless they start acting strangely...

This. The only time I question the authenticity of a vendor is when they start requesting FE's.
Title: Re: What prevents LE from being honeypot vendors?
Post by: UKMJ on August 21, 2012, 09:29 pm
it is a common misconception that the police cannot sell drugs, they can and they do.

the reason they don't become a honeypot vendor is, it just isn't worth the bother, all they get are the names and addresses of low level users. hardly the bust of the century. if they had resellers buying off them that may make it a more attractive proposition but that takes time and trust and they dont want to spend the resources.
Title: Re: What prevents LE from being honeypot vendors?
Post by: numbering on August 21, 2012, 09:42 pm
Thank you very much.
It seems to be very plausible.
As long as a vendor is not established, nobody would buy more than a sample from him. And only when his legitimacy is proven an he sells real gear, people will start to buy bulk.
But all that would only make sense if LE wasn't allowed to sell REAL drugs. I don't know but have slightly in mind that LE is not allowed to commit any crimes.
Title: Re: What prevents LE from being honeypot vendors?
Post by: Hundred_Gram_Oz on August 21, 2012, 11:08 pm
it is a common misconception that the police cannot sell drugs, they can and they do.


Very true. I have heard many people people say that they cant sell drugs. They can and they do! Aquick google will confirm this
Very true.

the reason they don't become a honeypot vendor is, it just isn't worth the bother, all they get are the names and addresses of low level users. hardly the bust of the century. if they had resellers buying off them that may make it a more attractive proposition but that takes time and trust and they dont want to spend the resources.

If LE busted 100  buyers it would have serious implications for every other service user. It would be a cheap stunt to pull also.
Title: Re: What prevents LE from being honeypot vendors?
Post by: bubbajoe99 on August 21, 2012, 11:58 pm
Haven't you heard? SR is a giant honey pot  :o.
Title: Re: What prevents LE from being honeypot vendors?
Post by: Christy Nugs on August 22, 2012, 12:30 am
NOW THAT ^^^^^^^^^ is funny!!!!!!


roflmao
Title: Re: What prevents LE from being honeypot vendors?
Post by: dkmonk on August 22, 2012, 12:53 am
NOW THAT ^^^^^^^^^ is funny!!!!!!


roflmao

The truth often is.
Title: Re: What prevents LE from being honeypot vendors?
Post by: doublebass69 on August 22, 2012, 01:06 am
This is an issue i was going to address in another thread but i might as well address it here.

Its impossible for LE to bust multiple buyers for one simple reason.

An LE can buy drugs, an LE can even do drugs but there is one thing they cannot do.

A LEO cannot let drugs go by it, by that i mean if you give LE weed and you tell them to give it back to you they cannot unless they were to bust you right there!!
So LEO cannot sell drugs to multiple vendors and then bust them days,weeks, or months later because they cannot let the drugs they sold get back into the system.

Theoreticly it is possible for a LEO to sell drugs to a SR buyer, and bust them and stop selling on SR.  But the resources to do this is too much to create single vendor accounts to bust one buyers unless it is a big buy. 

From what i gather the only time you have to worry about getting setup by an LEO on a buy is if a LE create fake buys and fake feedback and then busting you. 

In conclusion it is near impossible to get setup on a SR buy, and one last thing they are not going after buyers but sellers and we all know busting sellers is near impossible.
Title: Re: What prevents LE from being honeypot vendors?
Post by: Jello on August 22, 2012, 01:56 am
Haven't you heard? SR is a giant honey pot  :o.
I can confirm this.
Title: Re: What prevents LE from being honeypot vendors?
Post by: 7136214bradd on August 22, 2012, 05:21 am
This is an issue i was going to address in another thread but i might as well address it here.

Its impossible for LE to bust multiple buyers for one simple reason.

An LE can buy drugs, an LE can even do drugs but there is one thing they cannot do.

A LEO cannot let drugs go by it, by that i mean if you give LE weed and you tell them to give it back to you they cannot unless they were to bust you right there!!
So LEO cannot sell drugs to multiple vendors and then bust them days,weeks, or months later because they cannot let the drugs they sold get back into the system.

Theoreticly it is possible for a LEO to sell drugs to a SR buyer, and bust them and stop selling on SR.  But the resources to do this is too much to create single vendor accounts to bust one buyers unless it is a big buy. 

From what i gather the only time you have to worry about getting setup by an LEO on a buy is if a LE create fake buys and fake feedback and then busting you. 

In conclusion it is near impossible to get setup on a SR buy, and one last thing they are not going after buyers but sellers and we all know busting sellers is near impossible.

What is your source for this information?  I see this kind of assertion thrown around a lot on the road, but what laws,cases, regulations, etc. can you point towards that prevent LE from doing this?
Title: Re: What prevents LE from being honeypot vendors?
Post by: HowardRoarke on August 22, 2012, 05:32 am
there is nothing to stop LE from doing it, however a few things that may stop them, is finances - is this gonna net some big time players and be worth the cash? probably not a few middle class kids buying mdma is hardly going to be worth police funds.  Risks, ok say they deem it prudent to honeypot, they will want to have whoever is buying bang to rights, so they will probably do a few sales, but they will want to take into account the risks, what if the product they sell gets into wider circulation? what if some of the heroin goes missing? i mean it would look pretty bad if LE sold 500g of heroin and some 16 year old girl ended up dead... however there is really nothing "if they deem it worthwhile" to stop them, probably figure they could catch a few big players if they sold enough mdma.

a few misconceptions on LE, they do set up honeypot's all the time, i was watching some show where they rented out farmland for mexican drug gangs to grow bud on, then swooped in and got them after months... they can hand drugs back, this is the most obvious thing ever, imagine a cop is undercover on a big drug bust, some dude says hold this for a minute, comes back expecting the package, the cops like oh i cant mate im a cop cant give this back... he would be shot and ruin a major bust... Also another falsehood is if you ask a cop if they are a cop, they have to tell you, this is not true either so dont think your covering your arse when asking a vendor that.
Title: Re: What prevents LE from being honeypot vendors?
Post by: johnthebaptiste on August 22, 2012, 06:32 am
Another thing to keep in mind is perspective. Silk Road is terrible from a PR perspective for the war on drugs when some middle class naive family type reads Silk Road headlines in the news. It sounds terrible to them...an Amazon.com of drugs? Silk Road has really grown and there is significant activity and transactions here but in the grand scheme of drug transactions it's still just a drop in the bucket and LE already are so hard pressed to handle the war on drugs before this anonymous clearing house was a large scale operation. Sure some fairly big fish can probably be netted here and from there...maybe trace their chain back and roll that vendor up to their seller and try to get a big player but that's no different than what law enforcement currently does in real life.

It's even less effective with silk road though since it's truly anonymous. Bust a large scale buyer using your honey pot vendor and he probably can't even roll because he has almost no information and the information he may have requires so many resources and time to track down it comes back to the "worth it". I mean if you're really doing major work here...alright but still for every big vendor here there are hundreds doing it the old fashioned way still that represent a much larger percentage of the total war on drugs.

SilkRoad is bad PR but it's still a smaller part of the overall system. Unlikely you bust a seller here and trace him back to a cartel or extremely high level source. Sure most high level sources are sufficiently insulated and protected and if you're really a big fish (from LE's POV) is it worth doing business here if you already have a thriving empire?

Also if they invest so much time and money here...that's less resources to attack traditional drug shipment routes and ultimately LE's resources are limited and vastly overwhelmed. Some people fall inevitably, there will be blood, but the battle of attrition that is the war on drugs continues and this is a game changer along with bit coins.

Maybe ultimately SR leads to reasonable reform of drug laws in many places (like the US) because this is just the natural evolution of technology and our global world/marketplace and it won't be stopped. It's far too late now.
Title: Re: What prevents LE from being honeypot vendors?
Post by: Wokker on August 22, 2012, 08:46 am
This is an issue i was going to address in another thread but i might as well address it here.

Its impossible for LE to bust multiple buyers for one simple reason.

An LE can buy drugs, an LE can even do drugs but there is one thing they cannot do.

A LEO cannot let drugs go by it, by that i mean if you give LE weed and you tell them to give it back to you they cannot unless they were to bust you right there!!
So LEO cannot sell drugs to multiple vendors and then bust them days,weeks, or months later because they cannot let the drugs they sold get back into the system.

Theoreticly it is possible for a LEO to sell drugs to a SR buyer, and bust them and stop selling on SR.  But the resources to do this is too much to create single vendor accounts to bust one buyers unless it is a big buy. 

From what i gather the only time you have to worry about getting setup by an LEO on a buy is if a LE create fake buys and fake feedback and then busting you. 

In conclusion it is near impossible to get setup on a SR buy, and one last thing they are not going after buyers but sellers and we all know busting sellers is near impossible.

This brings to mind the "Fast and Furious" fiasco.  I'm sure a lot of you know what I'm talking about, but basically ATF agents sold weapons to some Mexican drug cartels in order to track their movements.  A few weeks later, it was discovered those very weapons were used in murders, creating a huge public fuck-up for the ATF.  If they could do it with weapons, I wouldn't be surprised if they could do it with drugs.
Title: Re: What prevents LE from being honeypot vendors?
Post by: Christy Nugs on August 22, 2012, 08:53 am
Wokker the fast and furious deal is a mess cause they never tracked the weapons!!
they never intended to track them - they intended to use the excuse of guns running to mexican
cartells to further erode our 2nd amendment rights - That is all.
If LE had their grubby little dick feelers into the road it would be monumentally: fucked up,
incompetent and way more unsafe than it is. There isnt anything they, the govt. , touches that isn't
a giant cluster fuck!!!
Title: Re: What prevents LE from being honeypot vendors?
Post by: Wokker on August 22, 2012, 08:57 am
Oh, I guess I misunderstood their goal for the whole thing.

edit: I did a little more reading on it, and it seems the ATF really had the intentions of tracking and controlling the weapons.  I don't believe it's a conspiracy, or whatever you're insinuating, but a genuine bumble by a federal agency. They mainly fucked up because they allowed way too many "controlled" sales. 

*clearnet* http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/06/10/earlyshow/main20070475.shtml

According to the article, if possible, a few weapons were fitted with an electronic tracker.  Also, the only way that the weapons were tied to crime scenes were the serial numbers, which had to have been recorded.  That goes to show they had accounted for each item, but just lost control of it's movement.  If anything it's just a testament to the fact that LE can and will fuck up.
Title: Re: What prevents LE from being honeypot vendors?
Post by: HowardRoarke on August 22, 2012, 08:59 am
i dont know, i think government surely has a monopoly on screwing things up amazingly, its like if i really wanted my best mate and his fiance not to get married, i would try and get the government to organise the wedding
Title: Re: What prevents LE from being honeypot vendors?
Post by: Limetless on August 22, 2012, 09:08 am
I do, with my Pig-Ray-Specs. Can see them a mile off and then they get their houses burned down. Sorted.
Title: Re: What prevents LE from being honeypot vendors?
Post by: Spunkaroo on August 22, 2012, 12:36 pm
Just one thing that I don't think was pointed out above, remember that different jurisdictions may have different rules for their LE. I don't claim to be an expert on this at all, but if I was worried about the realistic possibility of a honeypot operation I would be doing a lot of research into the laws/rules/regulations both in my area and the area I'm ordering from.

One example of this, I believe there is a defence of entrapment available to people in the US (under specific circumstances...), but I know for a fact this won't work in my country. People picking up all their info from popular media may not realise this though...
Title: Re: What prevents LE from being honeypot vendors?
Post by: HowardRoarke on August 22, 2012, 12:49 pm
once in my stupider days, i got drunk and ordered a stungun and pepper spray and thermite through ebay, the thermite had a caution on it, and the stungun was confiscated, the pepperspray came through without issue, the police never contacted me about any of theese items, which is odd, because EVERYTHING pointed to me buying theese items, even the debit card...

 but still i wouldnt worry about buying from a cop or honeypot, because they cant exactly bust you for recieving items just say not mine officer some pillock keeps sending me drugs and i have no idea why!! i mean if the law prosecuted you for recieving illegal things, then all of the unabombers victims would be liable due to recieving explosives.

note: it has only become clear to me now what a fucking silly prick i was at a younger age... damn.
Title: Re: What prevents LE from being honeypot vendors?
Post by: johnthebaptiste on August 22, 2012, 02:34 pm
The thing is if LE's pull something like a fast and furious also and some kid overdoses etc it could potentially blow up in their face.

Fast and Furious was basically just a political shitstorm although really blown out of proportion but a good reminder to LE that they take risk if they use controversial tactics.

So you come back to...is it worth it? Not really to bust a bunch of random buyers...at best a scare tactic really.

I think they are making controlled buys and have fake personas setup in the forums as we speak but probably at a low level. I could under estimate LE but it takes them years typically to gather any meaningful info through controlled buys in cases like this and if a vendor uses good safety/anonymity protocol even then they may not gain much info.

Also - you don't have to ship stuff to your house. Even if you do you can deny it, but there are safety steps that go beyond that where they'd have to really do a controlled delivery and even then it's not a guaranteed bust. If you're buying any kind of weight I'd imagine you're already using these safety protocol.

Fuck the cops. Freedom for all.
Title: Re: What prevents LE from being honeypot vendors?
Post by: username100 on August 22, 2012, 02:54 pm
it is a common misconception that the police cannot sell drugs, they can and they do.
Oh yeah?
Quote
the reason they don't become a honeypot vendor is, it just isn't worth the bother, all they get are the names and addresses of low level users. hardly the bust of the century. if they had resellers buying off them that may make it a more attractive proposition but that takes time and trust and they dont want to spend the resources.
Couldn't they sell kilos and make big busts that way?
Title: Re: What prevents LE from being honeypot vendors?
Post by: doublebass69 on August 22, 2012, 03:42 pm
More Proof that Cops cannot allow drugs to re-enter the system.

*ClearNet*
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InJHDLNCRzc

51:00-54:00

Why cops cannot sell drugs to you.
Title: Re: What prevents LE from being honeypot vendors?
Post by: HowardRoarke on August 22, 2012, 03:48 pm
http://www.erowid.org/freedom/police/police_info6.shtml

Are Police Allowed to Break The Law?
Police officers working undercover have exceptions from certain criminal laws. For instance, law enforcement officers directly engaged in the enforcement of controlled substance laws are exempt from laws surrounding the purchase, possession, sales or use of illegal substances.7

This means that there's no way to identify an undercover officer based on their willingness or refusal to use an illegal drug. Reverse stings are common in the enforcement of controlled substance laws. In a reverse sting operation, a police officer sells drugs that have previously been confiscated and then arrest the buyer.
Title: Re: What prevents LE from being honeypot vendors?
Post by: PlutoPete on August 22, 2012, 05:45 pm
While police may be able to sell drugs domestically, there is no way on earth they could send them internationally :)
Title: Re: What prevents LE from being honeypot vendors?
Post by: zustroid2 on August 22, 2012, 09:51 pm
One thing I don't understand is how can LE get anything better than possession on you... I mean, even if they get your address, they have to stalk your house until you get the drugs, and then they have to arrest you after you've opened the envelope. Unless you open the envelope, there is no proof that you knew there were drugs in it... I mean, as far as you're concerned, you got an envelope in the mail, for someone other than yourself, and you didn't know what to do with it, certainly not that there are drugs in it.

Even if the envelope is in your name, that doesn't prove anything since anyone can send you drugs w/ your name on the envelope. That's a classic setup.

The only moment where they can arrest you is after you've opened the envelope. And even then, it would only be for possession... Not a big prize. If you're a normal person (that has had no connection w/ LE and no record), then the judge will almost definitely let you off with a warning... (At least where I come from)

Now remember that this is a huge effort. Stake outs and waiting for the right moment for you to open the envelope. Think how much money this whole operation can cost. Not to mention that the only one that can do this kind of thing is the FBI, since there is no chance it would be in the same jurisdiction of local police, and the FBI isn't interested in low-level users (I don't think they even care about local high level drug lords).

This kind of mess sounds very hard to me.

However, you have to be aware that there was already an arrest of an SR member done in australia this month or the previous one (if I'm not mistaken). My guess is that they caught him at customs somehow. I don't see any other way.

They are claiming that they are going to make more SR based arrests, which is something to keep in mind. However, don't forget that LE is in the habit of lying, and that it is virtually powerless without relying on intimidation... If everyone started buying and selling drugs then LE can't do anything about it.
So I wouldn't take these statements too seriously. I think that's the reason the drug war doesn't succeed and never will...

But if we want to be really pessimstic, then let's say they do make arrests. I don't see them making more than 10 (there is a limit to the amount of people you can/want to lock up) arrests. Making these arrests would take at the very least a year, since drug enforcement is not very good with technology. So if you get 10 busts per year, and there are 10000 members here, then that leaves us with a chance of 1/1000 of being arrested in a year.

Another interesting point is that LE doesn't want people who are regular citizens in jail. That has a double cost of financing the prisoner, and the loss of the guy's salary... Not very attractive to anyone with half a mind, especially during an economic crisis.

And let's not even mention international drug purchases, which probably make cooperation impossible.
Title: Re: What prevents LE from being honeypot vendors?
Post by: wretched on August 22, 2012, 10:05 pm
More Proof that Cops cannot allow drugs to re-enter the system.

*ClearNet*
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InJHDLNCRzc

51:00-54:00

Why cops cannot sell drugs to you.

You are right! since it is on youtube, it must be LAW! More people should take legal advice from youtube!
Title: Re: What prevents LE from being honeypot vendors?
Post by: wasta on August 23, 2012, 12:36 am
It is against the law to poses drugs.
There is no separate law that the police may have illegal narcotics.
(Money is not illegal.)
 
Title: Re: What prevents LE from being honeypot vendors?
Post by: dkmonk on August 23, 2012, 12:58 am
I can't believe most of you actually think the police can't sell drugs. As long as a judge or higher up DEA whatever says it's okay than they can. I read a book about an undercover cop and he had to do a bunch of illegal things like help steal motorcycles  and beat people up just so he kept his cover.
Title: Re: What prevents LE from being honeypot vendors?
Post by: pinkapples88 on August 23, 2012, 02:22 am
I'm lucky that I live in a state that possessing or buying weed is decriminalized and it has been since the late 70's.I'm not talking about selling only possessing.If you possess under 100 grams for personal use (no intent to sell,they cant be in separate baggies,you cant have a scale on you,ect...) then it doesn't even go on your criminal record.For 100g or less for personal use there is no incarceration just a $150 fine its pretty much like a traffic ticket and its handled like one.In fact in my state they are extremely lenient about organic marijuana but you get FUCKED if its like fake shit like spice or K2.All the lenience doesn't carry over into distributing large amounts or having over 100 grams.Even though if you sell less than 20 grams or if you give it as a gift its also treated like a traffic ticket with a decently large fine (not over $500) and no jail time.BUT if you sell it to a minor they treat it worse than if you sold 20,000+ grams to an adult and its a felony of the 1st degree with a minimum sentence of 7 years.They are extremelyyy lenient as long as you aren't selling pounds or if you're not selling it to kids or in school zones.So I cant really complain to much about my local laws.And it would be pointless and useless for them to bust me for buying personal weed because they wouldn't get anything but a few hundred dollars from me.There is a flip side to that though.They are lenient about weed but if you have something other than weed like meth for example or there new crusades are on the fake shit like jwh and shit then you are FUCKED! We have decriminalized marijuana laws but every other drug is stricter than most states.So it would be pointless for them to bust me I would just be kind of irritated and it would be a waste a lot time and money for both of us.
Title: Re: What prevents LE from being honeypot vendors?
Post by: wasta on August 23, 2012, 02:39 am
I can't believe most of you actually think the police can't sell drugs. As long as a judge or higher up DEA whatever says it's okay than they can. I read a book about an undercover cop and he had to do a bunch of illegal things like help steal motorcycles  and beat people up just so he kept his cover.


I am sure this site has the attention of several agency's.
 We are being closely watched.
 By definition this type of community is amongst the favorite of our secret services.
Drugs , illegal, gpg , tor, ... that doesn't draw attention ?
 No doubt about that.
But if it was that easy to set up a seller account as a police agency, like the DEA, and sell someone dope, then raid the house because the DEA/police was the dealer, that wouldn't count in a court of law.
 It doesn't work that way.
 Not in civilized country's.

And police and judges are no friends.
They have separate functions to maintain order for the police and to control the judiciary
The politicians make the laws.
Those three work together, but can not mix.
That's corruption.
That the police does go wrong is clear.
And not only the police

http://www.oig.dhs.gov/assets/Mgmt/2012/OIG_12-108_Aug12.pdf

Conclusion.
This site is watched and probably infiltrated.
But...
You do not have to be scared to by drugs from the DEA self and get busted.
N.B. money is not illegal.
The DEA is not interested in buyers, they have a priority for the sellers, with usually larger amounts.

A swat team for your 0.5 gram is not economical.
Better bust 5 keys in one operation then 10.000 times the same operation for 0.5 grams.
Not to mention the helicopter, the judges and the whole system what would be the same circus performance for the 5 key dealer as it would be for 10.000 persons who bought 0.5 grams.

If you are just a small buyer and use gpg you have nothing to fear.

SR or SR lookalikes will there be for quite sometimes.
Watched and infiltrated, but no honeypot.

Title: Re: What prevents LE from being honeypot vendors?
Post by: dkmonk on August 23, 2012, 02:57 am
Yah, it was true it was an autobiography by the under cover officer for the ATF.

See you live in the Netherlands and don't even know anything about American government, because if you did you would know they break the law all the time. They are the government and will do what they want no matter what. Worst that happens is some low level officials get demoted or abscence with pay while the higher ups who ordered it just sit there. There are so many known examples of the government/law enforcement blatantly breaking the law and admitting to it later. If you want to live in a fantasy land and pretend this doesn't happen on a daily basis then go ahead.

Look up:
CIA Contra
Afghan Freedom Fighters (you may better know them as the Taliban which we supplied them with a shit load of weapons to be our mercanaries against the Soviets when they invaded Afghan)
MK-Ultra
Fast and Furious operation
People who never broke the law having bugs on their car from the CIA because they were of Arab discent, but born in America and no terrorist ties. No warrant.

Title: Re: What prevents LE from being honeypot vendors?
Post by: pinkapples88 on August 23, 2012, 03:22 am
I can't believe most of you actually think the police can't sell drugs. As long as a judge or higher up DEA whatever says it's okay than they can. I read a book about an undercover cop and he had to do a bunch of illegal things like help steal motorcycles  and beat people up just so he kept his cover.

I would like to meet that judge. If he gives me permission to beat people up, i will start with his wife, children and parents. Just a few broken bones, nothing serious.
 Everybody is someone kid, so it is OK as long it are not his kids?
""You have read a book"", yeh so did I.
 Doesn't mean that if it's in a book it is true.
 Killing several hundred people to find out who sold that one reefer, that makes sense.

I live in the Netherlands.
If the police knows about a amount of drugs, they have to act and can not wait to see who is buying them.

You have got to kidding me that it alright to use hard drugs like cocaine, killing some people along the way as a under cover agent. Passing me a joint and arrest me after I inhaled the smoke.
 Be serious.
A judge can not give permission to use cocaine or kill or do anything against the law, no matter how legit the cause.

Just common sense...

DKMONK is right undercover feds can take part in any activity that they have to in order to keep there cover safe.This is 'Merica the government doesn't have to have anyone's permission to do anything they're the government.They don't follow the rules they make rules for every one else to follow.And the judge would send your ass to jail son he is a judge you are a civilian that's how shit works here in our country.You see you were being sarcastic there when you said lets meet the judge so I can beat up his kids and stuff but the funny and ironic part is,is that you were right...Yes he can beat your kid.If you do the same you go to jail or prison.As for the murdering hundreds of people that may happen sometimes but not usually.Our government is the definition of ignorant they are without a doubt one of the stupidest governing bodies in the entire world.It is not like it was when our country was founded.Its completely different now.Our government can do anything they want and they make the rules its there game and you're just playing in it.And I don't know how it is in the Netherlands.But there are unnecessary police brutalities happening EVERY DAY.This isn't something unheard of it may be weird for your country but you see it everyday on the news here like "police brutally beat suspected drug dealer","police stun and beat drunk driver",rodney king, all of them.Police do what they want when they want why do you think americans have no love for the police??? Because they're corrupt and dirty they're worse than 95% of the civilians.They steal,they kill,they extort,they are power hungry that's why they are pigs.They are hungry for power and wont stop they are just a bunch of try hard people who think they are making a difference bragging about how they sent that guy to jail for having a bowl in his pocket THEN they have the balls to get on faux 8 oops I mean fox 8...And claim that they are in fact winning the war on drugs.Don't let the international news and media coverage construe what the government and police are really like here.They are dirty and they can and will kill you,rape you,steal from you,black mail you,extort you,beat you,or anything else they want just because they don't like you.And they do it and can because what are you going to do about it? Fight back and go to prison? Take them to court so there friends (judges,attorneys,ect..) can say they don't see anything wrong with what happened? So that the police can threaten or black mail the jury into saying not guilty????? Its the government dude you are either very ignorant to the ways of the U.S. government and how it works or you are very very naive and misinformed.
Title: Re: What prevents LE from being honeypot vendors?
Post by: dkmonk on August 23, 2012, 03:45 am
All governments break the law when they want something bad enough. Netherlands seems like a place that turns the cheek on a lot of illegal activity and I am sure a lot of government officials get a kick back for it too. Netherlands is known to be a distribution hub for Europe. You don't actually think all the drugs get into the country because someone is that good at smuggling them do you?  Never mind you probably do in your black and white world where the authorities follow the rules and the bad guys have to out smart them.

Are you just really young or are you that brainwashed by the media?

I feel like SR has been flooded in the past few months by teenagers. I am not being sarcastic either. The quality of the forum has plummeted since I joined. I am a really understanding person, but when people make threads and it is just such a common sense answer like, "I want to make a purchase, but how do I know it isn't a LE sting?"  Such a waste of time and space on the forum. If you want to buy drugs over the internet at least post like you are mature enough to do so even if you aren't.

I guess I am done ranting and being nasty. I enjoy this place and it pisses me off that half the people who post anymore act like they can't complete a thought. Nomad's common sense should be a required buy from now on for all new accounts. It is in short supply.
Title: Re: What prevents LE from being honeypot vendors?
Post by: BaddaBoom on August 23, 2012, 04:21 am


This brings to mind the "Fast and Furious" fiasco.  I'm sure a lot of you know what I'm talking about, but basically ATF agents sold weapons to some Mexican drug cartels in order to track their movements.  A few weeks later, it was discovered those very weapons were used in murders, creating a huge public fuck-up for the ATF.  If they could do it with weapons, I wouldn't be surprised if they could do it with drugs.

Man , I totally thought you were gonna tell me about a scene from the fast n the furious..

Yes guys , i think anyone here who thinks the law is limited in any means to catch you and kicking your door down , is just trying to make themselves feel better . In a court of law you may or may not be able to use the grey areas in your favor.  That being said i dont think the DEA cares to much about busting buyers. They would only use a buyer if he could be instrumental in catching a seller. 
so stay anonymous, stick with your methods, sleep good at night.
Title: Re: What prevents LE from being honeypot vendors?
Post by: dkmonk on August 23, 2012, 04:39 am
The government can take away all your rights at any moment if they feel the situation poses enough of a threat and they determine what they think a threat is. Japanese prison camps after Pearl Harbor is a good example. 

You think a judge in the Federal Court is going to tell the DEA who are also federal that what they did was wrong and now Jose Martinez who came across the border illegally but married an American for citizenship and is distributing a Class A drug is going to walk free? Not a chance. They will make up whatever sounds good and tell the public that their children would be dead in alleys from OD'ing on Jose's narcotics if they didn't do what they did and nobody will bat an eye. Most Americans would applaud for getting the immigrant drug dealer off the streets, piss on his rights is how the public will view it.
Title: Re: What prevents LE from being honeypot vendors?
Post by: snickerlover6969 on August 23, 2012, 05:25 am
I thought I have read somewhere that it's illegal for LE to offer you to buy drugs..anyone know if this is true?

And maybe you ever think that LE runs SR?? And they just watch all the people who don't encrypt their addresses? Just waiting for a big buyer to fuck up?
Title: Re: What prevents LE from being honeypot vendors?
Post by: dkmonk on August 23, 2012, 05:33 am
What the law states and what the law does are two different things.

Yah, they can try to sell you drugs. It is called a reverse drug buy. As long as they aren't forcing you to buy them, but they go and pretend to sell crack on the street then bust bums who want 10 dollar rock thinking this does something about the drug problem or violence in the neighborhood.
Title: Re: What prevents LE from being honeypot vendors?
Post by: HowardRoarke on August 23, 2012, 05:34 am
I thought I have read somewhere that it's illegal for LE to offer you to buy drugs..anyone know if this is true?

And maybe you ever think that LE runs SR?? And they just watch all the people who don't encrypt their addresses? Just waiting for a big buyer to fuck up?
i really doubt the second, i mean they would be faciliatating and profiting from 1000's of drug transactions to make a few token arrests, this wouldnt go down very well.
Title: Re: What prevents LE from being honeypot vendors?
Post by: dkmonk on August 23, 2012, 05:48 am
Why wouldn't it go down well?

They get a lot of money from the people they are against which can fund all their other ventures. They would be able to find out where a lot of dealers are which in turn would more than likely lead to the vendors supplier. If they could  get get 15 vendors that provide a good supply of coke or whatever have half of them snitch, but it would probably be more since they would be facing all kinds of charges resulting a good portion of their life in prison. They then watch their suppliers for however long it takes them to figure out who they work with resulting in a pretty big sting and getting some very large players arrested.

The cops are probably pissed they didn't think of SR first now that they see how well it does.
Title: Re: What prevents LE from being honeypot vendors?
Post by: dkmonk on August 23, 2012, 05:54 am
The feds raided Indiana (Yes, the state)  today, which goes to show that they have enough spare time to do whatever they want.

http://www.indystar.com/article/20120822/NEWS/120822024/Feds-confirm-statewide-raid-under-way-arrests-reported
Title: Re: What prevents LE from being honeypot vendors?
Post by: kryptoz on August 23, 2012, 05:57 am
Police can sell drugs. I'm sure there's a few on here. If you don't believe it you're extremely naive. If under-covers can legally smoke pot to keep up with a case then why wouldn't they be able to sell it.
Title: Re: What prevents LE from being honeypot vendors?
Post by: HowardRoarke on August 23, 2012, 06:03 am
Why wouldn't it go down well?

They get a lot of money from the people they are against which can fund all their other ventures. They would be able to find out where a lot of dealers are which in turn would more than likely lead to the vendors supplier. If they could  get get 15 vendors that provide a good supply of coke or whatever have half of them snitch, but it would probably be more since they would be facing all kinds of charges resulting a good portion of their life in prison. They then watch their suppliers for however long it takes them to figure out who they work with resulting in a pretty big sting and getting some very large players arrested.

The cops are probably pissed they didn't think of SR first now that they see how well it does.

can you imagine the outcry if the cops facilitated 22million in drug sales, and made only a few arrests?
Title: Re: What prevents LE from being honeypot vendors?
Post by: dkmonk on August 23, 2012, 06:26 am
They facilitate 22 million dollars in drugs sales probably every other month. The helped launder a bunch of cartel money to find the source of it, but never found the source or seized the accounts.

The government helps cartels move dope and money from America to Mexico in exchange for information on the competing cartels. El Chapo Guzman isn't dead or captured not because the U.S. doesn't have the capabilities to locate him. His cartel gives out information on shipments and activities of the competing cartels.

The United States funded the paramilitary rebel group FARC in Colombia and trained them. Now we try to kill them and arrest them while they wear Army uniforms that we gave them still.

Title: Re: What prevents LE from being honeypot vendors?
Post by: HowardRoarke on August 23, 2012, 06:28 am
yeah, when its overseas america works as a terror state, but this would be facilitating drug sales to its own people, perhaps little jenny gets some heroin from someone on here and dies? that isnt just a few dead "spics" its a little all american girl killed by the forces supposed to make her safe...
Title: Re: What prevents LE from being honeypot vendors?
Post by: Pharmacopoeia on August 23, 2012, 06:32 am
Thank you very much.
It seems to be very plausible.
As long as a vendor is not established, nobody would buy more than a sample from him. And only when his legitimacy is proven an he sells real gear, people will start to buy bulk.
But all that would only make sense if LE wasn't allowed to sell REAL drugs. I don't know but have slightly in mind that LE is not allowed to commit any crimes.

That's what CI's are for.  Police turn their head while CI does something illegal, then bust the person(s) the CI has incriminated.

In my opinion they don't try vending because like people said they are looking to cut the suppliers, not the small time buyers.
Title: Re: What prevents LE from being honeypot vendors?
Post by: pinkapples88 on August 23, 2012, 06:39 am
yeah, when its overseas america works as a terror state, but this would be facilitating drug sales to its own people, perhaps little jenny gets some heroin from someone on here and dies? that isnt just a few dead "spics" its a little all american girl killed by the forces supposed to make her safe...

Its life.I'm not digging through the shit loads of drugs the U.S. has helped smuggled or ignored and just let them do it as a reward for information or arrests but I would bet my life on the fact that an american girl has died because of a drug that the U.S. government either brought here,allowed others to bring here,or helped a cartel bring here.It happens more than you think they just keep it quiet because like you said the american people would be pretty pissed if lil jenny ODs on some drugs that uncle sam let come through the border intentionally.
Title: Re: What prevents LE from being honeypot vendors?
Post by: Christy Nugs on August 23, 2012, 06:53 am
OK - Christy pulls almost everyone's pecker out of their pants and hits them with a hammer!!!!!!!!!

R U ALL AWAKE NOW?????
 
Cops can lie and r well practiced at it - cops can sell drugs - cops drop guns drus or what ever on ur person or in your vehicle
when ever they decide they just didn't like the way u looked at them - they r corrupt fuckheads and 70% of them are
just useless leaches upon society!!! scratch that they r a cancer upon society and need to be plucked out.
the goo ones who are few and far between i have no problem with - game on!!

Wake up they r liars cheats and thieves in general
Title: Re: What prevents LE from being honeypot vendors?
Post by: dkmonk on August 23, 2012, 06:59 am
Here I made a post showing how a few busts leads into something much larger. It took me about 5 hours of researching news articles for this year and last to link point a to b.

A county meth ring leads to the Indiana State wide raid that links to cartel associates in California and Arizona.

http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?topic=37743.msg426141#msg426141
Title: Re: What prevents LE from being honeypot vendors?
Post by: HowardRoarke on August 23, 2012, 07:12 am
it is an irrelevant example with no correlation to SR.
see we know giant drug raids happen, we would have to be naive not to know that.
yet SR their would be no value in chasing the buyer because they have no way of gettin to the vendor, the chain is entirely broken, whereas in real life the chain works out like this
producer>distributors>sellers> dealers > customer (can be longer or shorter)
SR is like producer> Distributor---- customer
even if said customer was going to deal, they would only ever be able to trace as far back as to him.
Title: Re: What prevents LE from being honeypot vendors?
Post by: dkmonk on August 23, 2012, 07:18 am
They would focus solely on the vendors since they have all their posts and PM's to locate them cutting out street level dealers and getting a distributor then the SR vendor rolls on his supplier.

I didn't say anything about buyer's that makes zero sense. The only use the buyers would be is to prove that the vendor made transactions and to keep the machine well oiled so more vendors come.

Just so everyone knows I don't think SR is run by cops.
Title: Re: What prevents LE from being honeypot vendors?
Post by: HowardRoarke on August 23, 2012, 07:20 am
i suppose it could happen, le has a lot of time and other peoples money to play with.
Title: Re: What prevents LE from being honeypot vendors?
Post by: pinkapples88 on August 23, 2012, 08:00 am
They would focus solely on the vendors since they have all their posts and PM's to locate them cutting out street level dealers and getting a distributor then the SR vendor rolls on his supplier.

I didn't say anything about buyer's that makes zero sense. The only use the buyers would be is to prove that the vendor made transactions and to keep the machine well oiled so more vendors come.

Just so everyone knows I don't think SR is run by cops.

Why would the polices make SR? It wouldn't accomplish anything.This is what they don't understand they think they will win the drug war they think they can make a difference but you cant expect to be able to control what humans are aloud to do/think you cant take away there rights to choose what they want to do and then expect them to be ok with it.In the passed decades with the internet came real information about drugs and they couldn't keep filling people heads with bullshit like they always have.People realized that it wasn't what they made it out to be and tried it and loved it why wouldn't people love drugs? Drugs have been a part of humanity for thousands of years.They are ignorant and naive to think they can tell people they cant make there own choices when it comes to drugs.Look at this one under ground website.You can buy any drug imaginable from any continent (besides Antarctica maybe) and from several countries within each continent.Imagine if you will the "revenant child" who is selling durban poison from africa.If he sells it online how many people do you think sell it off line in the streets in africa? In your local area imagine how many people do at least one type of drug.There are plenty of people who use drugs in small towns and there are thousands just in the U.S. then theres an even larger number in the medium sized cities then a huge amount in the big cities.For all the local people you know that do drugs there are people just like you and your friends in the next town over and the next town and the next town ALL OVER.The same goes for the U.K. and europe all those people you know that do drugs there are towns and cities like yours by the thousands.The government and world are fighting a war that they can never win.They are wasting money and time,pointless murders,people who have one life and they are spending it in prison because of non violent drug crimes.From america to mexico to all the european countries to asia to australia in new zealand and canada.When they take one lab down another pops up why cant they just see that you cant take away the right a person has to choose if they get high? They will never win this war no matter how many people they lock up or kill.The drug war is pointless its a joke its a waste of time and money and peoples lives that are labeled criminals and felons because they get high.
Title: Re: What prevents LE from being honeypot vendors?
Post by: pinkapples88 on August 23, 2012, 08:01 am
sorry for that long rage I just hate ridiculous ignorant controlling government bodies lol
Title: Re: What prevents LE from being honeypot vendors?
Post by: kwaigon57 on August 23, 2012, 04:57 pm
When I recently tried to purchase from a new-ish vendor and he PMed me back saying he was 'out of stock' that got me thinking: they could easily set up as  vendor, game the system to build rep, then offer something for really good prices (cocaine or oxy, something people want badly), then collect say 20 addresses and cancel the orders without shipping anything ('sorry bro, I'm all out of product..'). Then they would start pulling the mail on those 20 addresses (who are likely placing other orders). Eventually get enough to bust, say 10 of them, then do a big PR thing ("Police make multiple arrests across country related to the Amazon.com of drugs site..."). For this reason I employ a strategy that changes my address periodically.

I think they haven't done this already because they generally move slow and it would require some actual work, which govt types hate to do.

Of course, this wouldn't shut down SR, only give people a scare and maybe slow things down for a bit. We, the SR community, would find a way around it eventually (maybe only use established vendors), but a few folks would be made examples of.

As for me, I've been very impressed by our community. I think one of the best things we can do is make this site safe for people to use by aggressively screening out scammers, pedobears and other sleazy types.

If we take care of ourselves and look out for one another SR will be around a long time and WE THE PEOPLE will have won a war for once.
Title: Re: What prevents LE from being honeypot vendors?
Post by: Wadozo on August 23, 2012, 07:31 pm
As a community we need to stay alert, voice any concerns or suspicious activity and never ever get complacent on SR. You can bet your bottom dollar they won't stop trying to figure out a way to infiltrate and bring down SR and LE certainly has the capacity and resources to do just that. New vendors should be scrutinized and questioned in the hope of flushing out any LE. Hard to do but something that will require an ongoing effort from all concerned. :)
Title: Re: What prevents LE from being honeypot vendors?
Post by: pinkapples88 on August 23, 2012, 08:32 pm
As a community we need to stay alert, voice any concerns or suspicious activity and never ever get complacent on SR. You can bet your bottom dollar they won't stop trying to figure out a way to infiltrate and bring down SR and LE certainly has the capacity and resources to do just that. New vendors should be scrutinized and questioned in the hope of flushing out any LE. Hard to do but something that will require an ongoing effort from all concerned. :)

That's why I try to stay away from most new vendors until they build up a decent rep.Then again I doubt the feds would be busting down peoples doors for buying a quarter ounce of weed or a gram of molly.It would be more likely that they would set up fake accounts and contact the local LEO and do controlled sales and bust you at the door or mailbox because it would be a enormous waste of time and money for the DEA to be busting every day buyers making small purchases from all over the country.Plus it would be pointless for them to bust buyers period because of the websites anonymity some if not most vendors use a fake name/fake business and don't drop it off at there local post offices so once they got the buyer it would be a dead end.The pigs are more interested in the producers and distributors.If they bust one seller/distributor then they stop hundreds of sales if they bust the producer its thousands as opposed to busting a buyer and stopping one sale.So it would be pointless to bust a buyer.I doubt they're worried about the people buying it....Then again the entire war on drugs is pointless so who knows.
Title: Re: What prevents LE from being honeypot vendors?
Post by: anon911 on August 23, 2012, 08:51 pm
Don't forget the basic fact that anyone can order to your house on here. I can place an order for heroin and have it sent to a random person I find in the White Pages and no one would ever know it was me. So just raiding the guy's house because he has drugs sent to his address seems pointless and an abuse of power.
Title: Re: What prevents LE from being honeypot vendors?
Post by: pinkapples88 on August 23, 2012, 09:11 pm
Don't forget the basic fact that anyone can order to your house on here. I can place an order for heroin and have it sent to a random person I find in the White Pages and no one would ever know it was me. So just raiding the guy's house because he has drugs sent to his address seems pointless and an abuse of power.

It is pointless but don't start on the abuse of power thing me and probably 4 other people talked/raged about the government abusing its power in every aspect for like 4 hours last night.DKMONK he didn't mean anything by it you don't have to rage again haha...Read early in this thread about the governments abuse of power.DKMONK did a lot of digging and lots of research and posted things in this thread.Of course the government abuses its power they do every day browse the internet or watch TV you'll see.Just a couple weeks ago the feds busted into an old ladies house because someone using her IP address posted something threatening but they were using either Tor or a website like tor and it wasn't actually the old lady.But like you said it would be extremely pointless and time consuming to bust all these little buyers who are buying an 8th of good weed because it wouldn't solve anything and it wouldn't stop the distribution or production and that what they are really worried about.As long as SR keeps adding/changing/fixing security features then I think everyone on SR will be fine.If they could have brought SR down they would have done it already.
Title: Re: What prevents LE from being honeypot vendors?
Post by: sapphirestate on August 24, 2012, 01:28 am
edit: I did a little more reading on it, and it seems the ATF really had the intentions of tracking and controlling the weapons.  I don't believe it's a conspiracy, or whatever you're insinuating, but a genuine bumble by a federal agency. They mainly fucked up because they allowed way too many "controlled" sales. 

This is merely the story that the government and media have spit-shined for public consumption. It is my presumption, based on about a decade of research, that the real story is much more sinister.

The drug trade, at its highest levels, is controlled by the very agencies that purport to fight it – CIA, FBI, DEA, DHS, etc. This has been exhaustively documented by authors like Gary Webb, Michael Ruppert, and many, many others. Much of this trade is done through "cut-outs" – essentially cartels that are granted favored status. The United States' current fave is the Sinaloa cartel in Mexico – this connection has been long understood by many Mexican journalists.

IMHO "Fast and Furious" was actually a blown op in which the cartel was being intentionally supplied with weapons by their benefactors within the U.S. LE establishment. Conspiracy theory? Perhaps (although that phrase has been so badly maligned as to have lost all objective meaning). But dig a little deeper into this topic and I think you'll be shocked by what you discover. I'd recommend Michael Ruppert's "Crossing the Rubicon" as a good place to start.
Title: Re: What prevents LE from being honeypot vendors?
Post by: wasta on August 25, 2012, 07:59 am
Numbering is funny...

Canadian police have caught a serious big seller of SR.
They tricked him to accept a western union payment.
When he came for the money he was busted.

So sellers have to stick by the proven safe protocol.

We are all being watched here on SR;
http://www.oig.dhs.gov/assets/Mgmt/2012/OIG_12-108_Aug12.pdf
Title: Re: What prevents LE from being honeypot vendors?
Post by: Soccerpros on August 25, 2012, 08:17 am
I'm not sure exactly how but one of my bros got arrested for using SR, he was shipping some ganja to his house. IDK if it got intercepted or if LE had planned it.
Title: Re: What prevents LE from being honeypot vendors?
Post by: Lucius Luv on September 02, 2012, 06:02 pm
I would be more worried about buying baggies, pill presses, and legal items as opposed to drugs. 
Title: Re: What prevents LE from being honeypot vendors?
Post by: punkst0ner on September 02, 2012, 09:20 pm
I imagine LE would not sell drugs on here. I imagine that if LE wanted to infiltrate the SR, they would aim for a mod position on here, and be more interested in laundering money and changing cash for bitcoin type activities.

Trackable coins given to buyers.

Vendors addresses obtained.

Score.
Title: Re: What prevents LE from being honeypot vendors?
Post by: kryptoz on September 02, 2012, 09:43 pm
I disagree, LE posing as buyer is very likely. Buy good amounts from a specific vendor, track the stamps, close in. Not as difficult as you think. Mod is entirely possible, as are vendors too. Everyone is LE ;).
Title: Re: What prevents LE from being honeypot vendors?
Post by: johnmtl on September 02, 2012, 09:52 pm
.
[/quote]

This brings to mind the "Fast and Furious" fiasco.  I'm sure a lot of you know what I'm talking about, but basically ATF agents sold weapons to some Mexican drug cartels in order to track their movements.  A few weeks later, it was discovered those very weapons were used in murders, creating a huge public fuck-up for the ATF.  If they could do it with weapons, I wouldn't be surprised if they could do it with drugs.
[/quote]

I think in this case what happened was the ATF did sell REAL guns to one cartel group out in mexico, The reason for this sting was to trace the whereabouts of the higher ups.. they only sent in top notch guns.... guns that would be delivered to high ranking members. ( not pos glocks)
These guns were fitted with gps but what happened is the cartel found out and cleaned the guns which then were used in murders... what I'm saying here is yes LE they can sell guns and drugs but would never be able to get such permission unless the target was a threat to national security.. such as the mafia, cartels, terrorists, ect.. there not gonna be out here selling shit trying to catch us when they have to many drug dealers in the streets to deal with as it is...

the only  LE I really worry about is postal inspectors.. these guys can do anything and because of national security are on top of things, unlike cops who are to busy with the real world...
Title: Re: What prevents LE from being honeypot vendors?
Post by: Wadozo on September 02, 2012, 09:57 pm
There's no doubt that LE are racking there brains in a bid to devise a plan of attack to take SR and other such sites down. There problem is that overall, most users of this site are using it safely and they will struggle to intercept any communication as long as people are using PGP. LE would have some higher ranked officers putting together submissions in regards to possible points of weakness on SR they could exploit and infiltrate.That's not an easy task and will not get any easier as site security and user safety measures improve. One things for sure, they won't give up their fight but equal to the task are all users and staff of this site who love all it stands for and will never want to see it taken down.
Title: Re: What prevents LE from being honeypot vendors?
Post by: herpiusderpius on September 02, 2012, 10:10 pm
Wokker the fast and furious deal is a mess cause they never tracked the weapons!!
they never intended to track them - they intended to use the excuse of guns running to mexican
cartells to further erode our 2nd amendment rights - That is all.
If LE had their grubby little dick feelers into the road it would be monumentally: fucked up,
incompetent and way more unsafe than it is. There isnt anything they, the govt. , touches that isn't
a giant cluster fuck!!!
This just about sums it up. The government's a bunch of fuckwits with all the money and power they need. Only use BTC, stay in escrow, careful with new vendors, encrypt everything, etc. Stay safe everyone. Do all you can to evade.
Title: Re: What prevents LE from being honeypot vendors?
Post by: kryptoz on September 02, 2012, 10:38 pm
Just to let you all know, the US government admitted to having undercover agents here. Someone requested information on SilkRoad via the freedom of information act, and it was rejected for "being to broad, and we have an ongoing investigation with agents" etc. You can google it if you want, I don't have the link to the article.
Title: Re: What prevents LE from being honeypot vendors?
Post by: wretched on September 02, 2012, 10:46 pm
I hope there is a decent amount of counter intelligence going on by the actual vendors here. It would be a shame if they aren't being tracked by our side the way they are trying to track us!
Title: Re: What prevents LE from being honeypot vendors?
Post by: painbow on September 02, 2012, 11:06 pm
I'm not sure exactly how but one of my bros got arrested for using SR, he was shipping some ganja to his house. IDK if it got intercepted or if LE had planned it.

What country did he live in?  Was this a domestic or international order? and how much was he buying?
Title: Re: What prevents LE from being honeypot vendors?
Post by: johnmtl on September 03, 2012, 02:49 am
FUCK THIS SHIT!!! dangggg.. all this LE talk has got me mad paranoid... its so true.. LE could come on here and make several buys from a seller and try to track him down if they want.. I think the only safe way to go is bu changing accounts.... its seems stupid...and it might not work but if you change to a new account on a monthly basis it would be harder for the to track you.. because one min they have a lead on you.. next your gone and back under a new name.. new pics..new prices.. new text.. new everything....

thats the only way I see to protect myself from LE even tho its just weed.. in the last day I read about 2 SR vendors who got fucked by Canadian cops..

i feel so lost...

what to do, what to do???
Title: Re: What prevents LE from being honeypot vendors?
Post by: kryptoz on September 03, 2012, 03:10 am
Quote
I think the only safe way to go is bu changing accounts

;).....
Title: Re: What prevents LE from being honeypot vendors?
Post by: johnmtl on September 03, 2012, 03:17 am
I like that you like my idea.. but it would

1- be costly
2- be time consuming
3-you would have to figure out who the real "kosher" clients are and contact them so they can still find you.
4- gotta build new feedback..

IT IS BY FAR THE BEST IDEA TO STAY ONE STEP AHEAD

like as soon as the LE has the time to make 3 or 4 purchases the account is closed and so is there case and now they have to start all over again..

maybe soon some SR mods will have some insight into this and hopefully in the future we can figure out how to implement an idea like this
Title: Re: What prevents LE from being honeypot vendors?
Post by: kryptoz on September 03, 2012, 03:21 am
It's not as hard as you think. It's much easier to do as a buyer, but for some vendors with well over 300 transactions, I'd rather shell out 150 and keep my freedom.
Title: Re: What prevents LE from being honeypot vendors?
Post by: Joosy on September 03, 2012, 03:29 am
To those saying LE would never sell drugs, should know that the CIA have operated as one of the largest drug trafficking organizations in the world. (although I wouldn't consider the CIA as LE, more like an American KGB).
Title: Re: What prevents LE from being honeypot vendors?
Post by: johnmtl on September 03, 2012, 03:35 am
It's not as hard as you think. It's much easier to do as a buyer, but for some vendors with well over 300 transactions, I'd rather shell out 150 and keep my freedom.


nono.. i know its easy to change up for both buyer and seller... i'm just saying the "hard part" would be getting back to bizz like normal.. at month 1 or 2 if ur pushing 10 or so orders a day and then u open brand new, expect to be slow for a while again.. and then just when things are good.. time to do it all over again..  it would be a never ending cycle.. and might or might not be worth it..

That i'll decide soon
Title: Re: What prevents LE from being honeypot vendors?
Post by: kryptoz on September 03, 2012, 03:54 am
Well, would you rather be free or in jail getting butt-pounded, your choice I suppose ::).
Title: Re: What prevents LE from being honeypot vendors?
Post by: johnmtl on September 03, 2012, 03:57 am
I think the only way to keep the same account is always ship form a different city or something.. i been in the slammer a few times and have no intention on going back sooo no matter what i do i gotta stay a head of them.

which i mean aint that hard... its just cops were talking about!
Title: Re: What prevents LE from being honeypot vendors?
Post by: kryptoz on September 03, 2012, 04:02 am
No justice, no peace. Re-shippers, pretty legit. Know people from around the world, it helps ;).
Title: Re: What prevents LE from being honeypot vendors?
Post by: anex45 on September 05, 2012, 12:41 am
A LEO cannot let drugs go by it, by that i mean if you give LE weed and you tell them to give it back to you they cannot unless they were to bust you right there!!
So LEO cannot sell drugs to multiple vendors and then bust them days,weeks, or months later because they cannot let the drugs they sold get back into the system.

Sorry, but I have to respectfully disagree with this statement. I've been in a situation where that has happened and ended up having to spend a year locked up for it.
Title: Re: What prevents LE from being honeypot vendors?
Post by: wasta on February 19, 2013, 11:47 am
Are bitcoins illegal?

L.E. as a honeypot...LOL !!!

Is there a different law for L.E. so they can possess illegal drugs?

Just an other stupid question!

To sell drugs is a real big crime!

To buy a little is not.

L.E. can not commit a big crime just to catch you for a little crime.

And when the have confiscated drugs they have to destroy those drugs once it has done it use as evidence.

At least that's the law where i live. The police can not even follow a shipment to find out who the big guys are.

Cause they have lost track of such shipments in the past.

So no if the police can prevent to let the drugs enter the market, they have to act, before those drugs do enter the market again.

But maybe the police is the biggest supplier of narcotics in the states, it wouldn't surprise me  at all !

They sell even weapons to Iranians who keep Americans hostage etc !
Title: Re: What prevents LE from being honeypot vendors?
Post by: sleepyeyes2k2 on February 19, 2013, 12:03 pm
Quote
Is there a different law for L.E. so they can possess illegal drugs?

Former LEO.  Yes, basically.  LE can possess in the performance of their duties.  Do they pose as "honeypot vendors?"  Not likely.

The operation would have to be huge.  DEA would have to run it, and there would have to be buy-in from every LE in the country.  Which means it couldn't happen quietly.  But putting that aside, the only payoff would be a break in morale.  The operation would put the Road out of business for a day.  Maybe two.  And, a shitload of customers would be arrested on piddly-ass possession charges, half of them first-time offenders - which means this piece of shit would need buy-in from local DA's, too. The real threats are the anonymity of the sellers, the untraceable digital currency, the anonymity of the servers.  When somebody figures out how to break up that holy trinity, you need to sell your ideas to DPR, time now.

Narcs have one play in the playbook.  One string on the fiddle.  The buy/bust.  The paid informant who buys a little bit, followed by the cops who nab the big stash.  This has been the MO since fucking Prohibition.  They don't know any other way.  So, until they think of one, the Road travels on. 
Title: Re: What prevents LE from being honeypot vendors?
Post by: XXXotica on February 19, 2013, 02:25 pm
Haven't you heard? SR is a giant honey pot  :o.

+1

for the laugh!!!!
Title: Re: What prevents LE from being honeypot vendors?
Post by: ProudCannabian on February 19, 2013, 09:05 pm
Just to point out a few fallacies by the "LE could never" crowd.

There are some vendors here who only sell large amounts.
LE doesn't have to sell heroin to children to prove themselves as sellers either, we have many drugs to choose from, and many of them are quite safe, and are commonly found in evidence lockers.   There are even vendors who don't sell anything illegal, like 5000 pack of baggies, and stuff like that.

Even though MOST large vendors only vend, SOME are also buyers - cross referencing locations by purchases/sales and TOR activity would make it relatively easy to get a warrant to search.  Packaging and package origins are definitely catalogued.

One user was correct in stating that international buys, customs aside, are probably safer due to difficulties from borders and co-operation between countries.

LE in most western countries CAN sell drugs as part of sting operations.

Just because you cannot fathom how someone would get caught, doesn't mean there isn't someone out there who can figure it out.
This is why we all should avoid letting our guard down here, and ALWAYS take the appropriate precautions.

When I read someone encouraging shitty security, or downplaying the risks here, my first though is LE.  Anyone with half a brain knows, be cautious.  When dealing with this stuff, some reasonable paranoia is your best friend.

I've had people here make me some pretty strange offers off and on over the years, and I don't think I'll ever accept free samples again either.
Title: Re: What prevents LE from being honeypot vendors?
Post by: treebeard on February 19, 2013, 10:24 pm
Quote
Is there a different law for L.E. so they can possess illegal drugs?

Former LEO.  Yes, basically.  LE can possess in the performance of their duties.  Do they pose as "honeypot vendors?"  Not likely.

The operation would have to be huge.  DEA would have to run it, and there would have to be buy-in from every LE in the country.  Which means it couldn't happen quietly.  But putting that aside, the only payoff would be a break in morale.  The operation would put the Road out of business for a day.  Maybe two.  And, a shitload of customers would be arrested on piddly-ass possession charges, half of them first-time offenders - which means this piece of shit would need buy-in from local DA's, too. The real threats are the anonymity of the sellers, the untraceable digital currency, the anonymity of the servers.  When somebody figures out how to break up that holy trinity, you need to sell your ideas to DPR, time now.

Narcs have one play in the playbook.  One string on the fiddle.  The buy/bust.  The paid informant who buys a little bit, followed by the cops who nab the big stash.  This has been the MO since fucking Prohibition.  They don't know any other way.  So, until they think of one, the Road travels on.

yes -- this is along the lines of what i wanted to bring up

a lot of the people saying 'it wouldn't be worth LE's time/money to do it' are right, but only in the consideration of smaller LE units

in order for something like this honeypot to go down, it would have to be headed up by a large federal agency, and it would be an operation explicitly aimed at making an example.  it's not just going to be a casual drug bust case.  if they decide to go after SR the only thing that makes sense is it would be a federal level disciplining operation.

...that is if the CIA isn't behind the whole thing in the first place  ;)
Title: Re: What prevents LE from being honeypot vendors?
Post by: Slicksuit on February 19, 2013, 10:49 pm
It's not really worth it - they'll just end up with a bunch of personal users. Nobody will buy bulk (real bulk) from a unknown new vendor, so they'd have to sell a bunch of smaller purchases out first.

Imagine they killed someone with one of them, they would be in serious shit. I kinda' believe the government are 'OK' about this place being here, as they don't seem to be doing a awful lot about it.  ???
Title: Re: What prevents LE from being honeypot vendors?
Post by: sleepyeyes2k2 on February 20, 2013, 04:40 am
Quote
in order for something like this honeypot to go down, it would have to be headed up by a large federal agency, and it would be an operation explicitly aimed at making an example.  it's not just going to be a casual drug bust case.  if they decide to go after SR the only thing that makes sense is it would be a federal level disciplining operation.

We are of one mind, my brother.  Another big problem for LE is that while there are estimates about how much business SR generates on a monthly and yearly basis, there is no good data about where those sales are.  I mean, if LE knew that, say, 30% of SR purchases were going to Texas, at least they'd have a place to start.  But, they don't even know what percentage is US sales.  The best they can do is profile vendors who post that they ship from the US or to the US.  But, that data only gets them back to the question of how you get the vendors. 

That's why no politician can run on a ticket of shutting down the Road.  Because you can't define it as a national problem, not to the specificity that you need to in order to allocate resources.  Now, you know they're trying.  And, my opinion on the subject is just that, and because I think it's alost cause doesn't mean the US AG is like, "well, sleepyeyes thinks we're fucked, so let's call it off."  And, as I've said in other threads, all good things must come to an end.  It's the nature of the beast. 

My basic position is that, even if LE wanted to be a "honeypot vendor," it wouldn't be useful to them. They must know this, and I therefore think the practice is rare or nonexistent. 

Quote
When I read someone encouraging shitty security, or downplaying the risks here, my first though is LE.  Anyone with half a brain knows, be cautious.  When dealing with this stuff, some reasonable paranoia is your best friend.

Having my opinion, however, does not make me LE, and I resent the accusation.  ;)
Title: Re: What prevents LE from being honeypot vendors?
Post by: Vegas on February 20, 2013, 07:50 am
Quote
in order for something like this honeypot to go down, it would have to be headed up by a large federal agency, and it would be an operation explicitly aimed at making an example.  it's not just going to be a casual drug bust case.  if they decide to go after SR the only thing that makes sense is it would be a federal level disciplining operation.

We are of one mind, my brother.  Another big problem for LE is that while there are estimates about how much business SR generates on a monthly and yearly basis, there is no good data about where those sales are.  I mean, if LE knew that, say, 30% of SR purchases were going to Texas, at least they'd have a place to start.  But, they don't even know what percentage is US sales.  The best they can do is profile vendors who post that they ship from the US or to the US.  But, that data only gets them back to the question of how you get the vendors. 

That's why no politician can run on a ticket of shutting down the Road.  Because you can't define it as a national problem, not to the specificity that you need to in order to allocate resources.  Now, you know they're trying.  And, my opinion on the subject is just that, and because I think it's alost cause doesn't mean the US AG is like, "well, sleepyeyes thinks we're fucked, so let's call it off."  And, as I've said in other threads, all good things must come to an end.  It's the nature of the beast. 

My basic position is that, even if LE wanted to be a "honeypot vendor," it wouldn't be useful to them. They must know this, and I therefore think the practice is rare or nonexistent. 

Quote
When I read someone encouraging shitty security, or downplaying the risks here, my first though is LE.  Anyone with half a brain knows, be cautious.  When dealing with this stuff, some reasonable paranoia is your best friend.


You guys should check a report by the Australian, Queensland police dept. entitled, I think "Hiding in plain sight : Silk Road" or something to that effect.
Australian law enforcement is very well aware that 'traditional' methods have no chance of any real political success in taking down SR. Here's a snippet...

Quote
"Silk Road users further boost security by discussing techniques to hide drugs from customs and postal services, and by vetting the integrity of sellers and their products.

This information sharing was so effective that the report notes existing "forensic examination of posted items and packaging yields no information", pointing to the sophistication of postage techniques.

The report said the impact of the open discussion on the security of the marketplace "cannot be underrated" and suggests law enforcement agencies should heed the lessons and use "power to the crowd" to combat the Silk Road.

This would involve an audit of police skills across Australia to map strengths and weaknesses within police cyber units and improve training. It would compliment the previously stated priority given by Australian police for "reducing cross-border barriers to law enforcement and prosecution".

The report flagged possible attacks against the Tor network, and cited previous research including Perez-Gonzalez and Crandall's timing and fingerprint analysis, and man-in-the-middle attacks against exit nodes. It said it was unknown if the latter attack was possible against Tor hidden services.

Police could also benefit from research and development undertaken within unspecified national security agencies.

Other avenues to attack the Silk Road flagged in the report include social engineering, :o intersections between online transactions and the real world, and by targeting user error."


So apparently all the bullshit regarding Aussie buyers scamming hard, or vendors SSing to Aus are most likely the result of "Social Engineering" to disrupt and deter Aussie users and vendors who may ship here. And of course the follow on effect of ACTUAL scammers and ss'ers deciding to do so. As one journalist observed it's funny how the higher their ratings and more forum posts a buyer has, the less likely they were to report being ripped off...

I also tend to think some people have forgotten what it is they're buying off here. It's class A fucking narcotics people, don't let the buyer feedback and ratings system fool you into thinking it's anything other than a criminal act that MAY send you to prison. There is NO limit to what LE will do for a drug bust, read this...

The first story almost made me cry with sadness/rage, seriously. The cunt did this for a dime bag of weed...

http://www.alternet.org/story/154164/how_an_attractive,_undercover_cop_posed_as_a_student_--_then_entrapped_a_smitten_teen_to_%22sell%22_her_marijuana

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2116721/Undercover-policeman-poses-high-school-student-EIGHT-MONTHS-busts-12-students-drug-sting.html

anyways that's just two examples of how LE will sink to all-time lows to make you do the right thing and save your from yourself.
There is NO limit to their douchbaggery, you will see. Just wait until some rich white kid from the suburbs drops dead than watch those political fucks try to scare us into action and votes.

PS there are many LEO's active on these boards, count post means nothing. LEO's are able to infiltrate SERIOUS crime rings with daily face to face contact over many years, undercovers are good at what they do, really good. These people's job is to catch YOU, teams of people are being paid good money to sit around and browse these boards and build intel, this is how it works. I wouldn't be surprised if some LEO's have reached 'HERO status' on their post count. It's only matter of time until something gives. Either it strengthens SR or destroys it to make way for the next one.
The only certain/constant is the knowledge that this concept will NEVER die!
Peace
Title: Re: What prevents LE from being honeypot vendors?
Post by: Wadozo on February 20, 2013, 10:02 am
Quote
I kinda' believe the government are 'OK' about this place being here, as they don't seem to be doing a awful lot about it.  ???

There's not a government in the universe who would "be O.K" with a website selling illegal drugs and other products to anyone with the ability to log on to the site. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE this place and all that it stands for, however, this sort of complacency is what LE will target if an opportunity arises. Just because the general public doesn't see or hear about the investigative work being done behind the scenes to take SR down, doesn't mean LE, from all parts of the globe, aren't feverishly trying to develop new methods, techniques and strategies on how to infiltrate SR security and bring down the most brazen, illegal website in history, making millions of untaxed dollars for the owner/s. 
I doubt any Government/Agency/Organization would disclose to the public, any inroads they might have made into taking the site down. Once this info was broadcast to the world, it would be immediately plugged by the Admins, perhaps even by the myriad of tech heads floating around SR and the SR Forum, which would defeat any purpose of looking for vulnerabilities in the SR operation. There is not a shadow of doubt in my view that there's a lot of work going on behind the scenes on permanently taking down SR, especially as it's grown exponentially over the last 6 months or so. Being as popular as it's ever been with a huge influx of new members whilst remaining hidden from Law Enforcement for an extended period of time, would suggest to me a good reason the Government doesn't like raising this topic in Public arenas or to certain media outlets. It's an absolute embarrassment for them, especially when the majority of the general public wouldn't know the Hidden Web even exists, let alone what it actually is and can be used for. LE are of course monitoring these Forums and will always be searching for an opportunity or situation where they can take advantage and exploit it for all that it's worth. Hence the reason Personal Responsibility is so important and an essential element in staying safe on SR. The Forum is filled to the brim with a wealth of valuable information on any topic related to SR you could think of. Continually educating yourself on all things SR related will offer you the best chance of staying safe. There's NO GUARANTEES with anything in life and there will always be a risk when involving yourself in an illegal activity. Minimizing any calculated risks one takes with a common sense approach is virtually all you can do to keep yourself safe when actively using SR, for the time being anyway!!  ;) ;) 

Title: Re: What prevents LE from being honeypot vendors?
Post by: Vegas on February 20, 2013, 02:54 pm
Quote
Just because the general public doesn't see or hear about the investigative work being done behind the scenes to take SR down, doesn't mean LE, from all parts of the globe, aren't feverishly trying to develop new methods, techniques and strategies on how to infiltrate SR security and bring down the most brazen, illegal website in history, making millions of untaxed dollars for the owner/s.

Couldn't have said it better myself...
At the moment SR is extremely embarrassing for the establishment. It is the biggest 'fuck you' they have received in decades. Many aspects of LE feel absolutely impotent right now, and it's affecting their manhood. They are not taking this lightly...
Title: Re: What prevents LE from being honeypot vendors?
Post by: laplace on February 20, 2013, 05:09 pm
Quote
I kinda' believe the government are 'OK' about this place being here, as they don't seem to be doing a awful lot about it.  ???
Not a chance in freakin', fuckin' hell. You can bet your ass that LE across the globe are busting their butts to take SR out. SR sells items which are illegal in most(all?) countries on this planet! Do not forget this. LE is always on the forums (and SR) getting little nibbles of information. When those nibbles can be assenbled into large enough chunks SR is gonna go bye-bye.
Title: Re: What prevents LE from being honeypot vendors?
Post by: sleepyeyes2k2 on February 20, 2013, 05:48 pm
Quote
anyways that's just two examples of how LE will sink to all-time lows to make you do the right thing and save your from yourself.
There is NO limit to their douchbaggery, you will see. Just wait until some rich white kid from the suburbs drops dead than watch those political fucks try to scare us into action and votes.

You're not wrong.  But, in the US, at least, there are limiting factors on LE that determine when and how to conduct operations.  Generally speaking, a big effort needs to result in a big payoff, i.e., big convictions.  If not, then people lose face, and elections get lost.  There is also the matter of resources.  LEAs don't have the manpower to run open-ended undercover investigations with no specific target and no specific progress for no specific timeframe.  If you look at classic infiltration operations (the UC op on the Hell's Angels, for example), there were clear signs that that op was succeeding.  But, on the Road, there is NO opportunity to a vendor to become a "Hero Vendor."  There's no hierarchy of sellers.  You can't become a "made man."  DPR may or may not have an inner circle, but if there is a way into it, that's the problem a UC investigation is ultimately trying to solve.
Title: Re: What prevents LE from being honeypot vendors?
Post by: wpwl on February 20, 2013, 09:52 pm
LEO can sell drugs..  Watch the show "COPS" - for fuck sake you dont need a law degree to understand a tv show on fox.

Also, Always use encryption.  LEO only has to sniff exit nodes to strip unencrypted addresses being passed through.  Legally they need a warrant to do so, However you don't even have to be LEO to sniff,  any tech savvy script kiddie can do this.

Sorry for sounding so hash but I normally dont take tax advice from third world tech support.  Look out for yourself and learn how this technology works to protect youself instead of asking if LEO can do this or that. LEO gets away with murder.
Title: Re: What prevents LE from being honeypot vendors?
Post by: oldtoby on February 21, 2013, 02:25 am
Even if cops couldn't sell drugs as part of a sting, they wouldn't have to to set up a honeypot here on SR - just spam a bunch of positive feedback from fake users who supposedly received goods. I get skeeved out every time I check out vendor feedback and go down the list of rave reviews

Mr. Wizard (posting history: 2 posts) "Great product. Great stealth. Will buy again"
Davy Jones (1 post) "Super fast shipping. This vendor is the man."
Lizard King (3 posts) "Top notch product. Way better than street."

etc, etc. If I don't see at least a couple of happy buyers with a serious posting history, I walk.

Granted, people are right - what would a honeypot vendor snag aside from some low level buyers? No one is going to buy bulk from unknowns. Problem is, SR is international. It's world wide. There's a ton of LE orgs out there and there's no way they're all headed up under one Super Agency. So that means not just one, necessarily rational, strategy. Maybe the DEA is biding their time, working crypto. Maybe CSIS is working the postal angle. Maybe the Gendarmes are muscleing street dealers, thinking at least some of them must double online, looking to turn them. And some other little pissant agency is running a honeypot so they can blackmail low level users into working for them on the Road. Who knows. I assume nothing.
Title: Re: What prevents LE from being honeypot vendors?
Post by: Tyl3rdurden on February 21, 2013, 02:56 am
Haven't you heard? SR is a giant honey pot  :o.
I heard its used to fund the war on drugs
For anybody suggesting LE wont sell drugs to make an arrest is 100% wrong, they can, will and have sold drugs to make arrests, will they do it to catch a buyer on SR.... highly unlikely.
Title: Re: What prevents LE from being honeypot vendors?
Post by: oldtoby on February 21, 2013, 03:20 am
will they do it to catch a buyer on SR.... highly unlikely.

Presume rational cost-benefit analysis at your own risk. Some little community freaks out, soccer mom reads Gawker, calls the mayor who is her brother-in-law, and suddenly it's priority #1 for Deputy Joe who's on crutches anyway since the pile-up to catch someone, anyone, on the Road.

LE have better things to do than hand out traffic tickets, too.
Title: Re: What prevents LE from being honeypot vendors?
Post by: Tyl3rdurden on February 21, 2013, 03:40 am
I see what you are saying and understand how this could be a reason to and I did consider this but at the end of the day they have limited resources, its not just paying for a speed gun and a police mans hourly rate which comes straight back in revenue for the police force, its time, effort, and beyond a basic police man with 4 C grades in GSCE ( basic pass in uk ) once they know your address they can go knock on your door and politely ask if then can come in, they wont get a warrant, hopefully everybody on here knows to tell them that they cannot help them. or they can do a controlled delivery. These are costly to prove in court unless you admit anything,If you have taken correct measures as most people do on here you wont open it straight away and inform the post man you are not expecting anything. write on it return to sender etc then leave it at least a few hours before opening they will not get a case at all. This will have cost a lot of money. Im not saying it cant happen, its very unlikely they will go to this effort for a buyer, anyways the mums will want the dealers not the buyers.
Title: Re: What prevents LE from being honeypot vendors?
Post by: sleepyeyes2k2 on February 21, 2013, 03:47 am
Quote
Even if cops couldn't sell drugs as part of a sting, they wouldn't have to to set up a honeypot here on SR

To what end?

Every LEA has one thing in common - jurisdiction.  Some are larger than others, but even that creates problems.  Let's say I'm in the US, and not in one of the states which just voted to make pot legal.  I'm standing on a street corner, and I light up a joint.  An off-duty DEA agent happens to walk by and see me.  Is he going to arrest me for possession?  Hell no.  Can he?  Sure.  But, he's DEA, and marijuana is a federal Schedule 1 drug, and the amount I'm smoking is chicken scratch.  He's going to flash a badge and tell me to put the damn thing out.  And, if I don't, well, then I'm an asshole, and then I have a problem with him.  I don't know exactly what I'm going to jail for at that point, but I'm going to jail.

The point I'm trying to make is that the DEA doesn't want to go running around the country to every US address their fake vendor gets an order for drugs for.  So, they have to work with local LE in every little jurisdiction their fake vendor gets orders for.  Which means, the DEA agent calls the narc in podunk nowhere to give him his evidence.  And, then it's up to a magistrate in podunk nowhere to decide if the SR order and the encrypted address constitutes PC for a warrant for the home.  It might not, because the magistrate may correctly suspect that the address is just a drop.  Blah, blah, blah, you've heard all this before.

So, if it all goes the way LE hopes, what happens?  Well, somebody in podunk nowhere gets arrested. 

That is not why the DEA gets out of bed in the morning, so that some cat in smalltown USA gets arrested on a state felony possession charge.   The DEA gets out of bed to put major narcotics traffickers out of business.  They get out of bed in the morning to put trafficking organizations like SR out of business.  "Honeypot vending" just doesn't get you there.

If the DEA has a vendor on the Road, he has a bigger purpose than to catch buyers.  His mission has to do with infiltrating the system which makes the Road possible. 
Title: Re: What prevents LE from being honeypot vendors?
Post by: oldtoby on February 21, 2013, 04:05 am
its not just paying for a speed gun and a police mans hourly rate which comes straight back in revenue for the police force

True enough that's direct revenue, though property confiscation surrounding drug busts seems to have become big business in the States and, to a much lesser extent (so far) in Canada (and we lack the prison economy - again, so far). Mind you, you don't get the keys to the house and car unless you're talking dealing, but that can be imputed by amount. Everybody knows better than to keep more than personal amounts around, but it's a supply chain with an uncertain future. I'm sure there are more than a few buyers who have stocked up.

Anyway, again, it may not be rational. But take a thousand LEAs and not all of them are going to have the patience or the resources for the long game. If I were some major org like the DEA, I think I'd be feeling some stress at the thought that the little guys *aren't* under my thumb and may do something stupid while bigger plans are afoot.

Also, what the hell, I'll come right out and say it. I have a particular concern with buyers-turned-CIs, because I depend on my instincts to suss out LE. If it's not LE, just some guy under LE's thumb? Harder to get a sense, I think. And I've posted elsewhere about LE potentially making buys to identify vendor stealth methods. Some aren't distinctive, so no problem. For others it might be. End of the day it's back to Trust No One. But take a small-ish domestic venue on SR (like Canada), and you find yourself considering vendors without that rock solid history, without established buyers vouching for them, and then you either trust your instincts or you walk away without product. Or buy international and take a different kind of risk.
Title: Re: What prevents LE from being honeypot vendors?
Post by: Thunderweed on February 21, 2013, 04:16 am
for LE to make a honeypot that might actually catch something they would be risking a LOT of capital and resources all on a gamble. This isn't how LE usually operates
Title: Re: What prevents LE from being honeypot vendors?
Post by: Wadozo on February 21, 2013, 05:25 am
The truth is NO ONE other than the Police themselves, will know exactly what they are working on behind the scenes in their attempts a take SR down. You can speculate or listen to innuendo, rumors and gossip from those who think they may know, however the truth is they factually don't know anything  other than their own theories or beliefs on what may happen. We can't control what LE are planning to do but it's a different story when related to ourselves as individuals.
Therefore, in saying that, the one thing that each and every one of us can control are our own actions and level of personal security measures we put in place. We want to make it as difficult as possible for LE to gather any sensitive information on us which may compromise our anonymity. My feeling is we should all be overly cautious and do things over and above when it comes to protecting our security and anonymity from LE. Make no mistake, if you're there for the picking, they will strike while the iron's hot. If your lax in the security measures you implement, then you are going to pay the price should you come to the attention of the Authorities. At some stage down the line, I believe there will be an all out attack on SR using a new tactic unbeknown to the general population or a new approach on an already devised attack which looks at other ways of exploitation. While I'm sure DPR has done all he can to prepare for such things, none of us will actually know other than the attackers themselves. My point is that it will be an attack not yet seen, a new development undisclosed to the public, which would be LE's best chance of infiltration. Current methods of attack have been unsuccessful which is a testament to DPR's skills and intelligence relating to Internet Security. The way SR is set up, a Tor Hidden Service on the Hidden Web, makes just finding the site practically impossible for the time being. Although, what happens in the future remains to be seen. :)
Title: Re: What prevents LE from being honeypot vendors?
Post by: Vegas on February 22, 2013, 04:30 am
Also wouldn't hurt to have a backup wallet ready for WHEN the shit hits the fan.
I only realised what that was for a few weeks ago  :D