Silk Road forums

Discussion => Silk Road discussion => Topic started by: Edawg420 on April 12, 2013, 05:54 pm

Title: Cancel, or NOT to Cancel, THAT is the QUESTION!
Post by: Edawg420 on April 12, 2013, 05:54 pm
So i have already posted this in another thread, but i think it would be relevant to the community's situation, so i wanted to make it's own thread.


So, in light of things that have just happened to the BTC, I completely understand why vendors would cancel orders.  However, at the same time I do feel it is kinda bogus, because like people have been saying, it's a gamble that should work both ways.

If the vendor had it unhedged in the past couple weeks, they should have made a small fortune.  And it was no secret that this was some sort of bubble waiting to crash.

If the vendor has the power to cancel the order without any sort of consequences other than the SR fee they will have to pay, then the Vendor has an unfair advantage over the customer.

So, before I get blasted by both sides, I just want to say what I did to mitigate some damages for both parties.

I had placed an order literally the morning right before the big crash, the value of the purchase was $180...the value now is about $76...instead of one of us getting completely fucked I messaged my vendor and asked to compromise the situation.

Now obviously I feel like I shouldn't have to compromise, because I am sure vendors weren't complaining when their BTC value doubled, but instead of soaking the entire loss if he cancels, hopefully I can split it.

Remember, there is not much leverage I have here...he could simply cancel the order and I'm then out $100...so...hopefully this will resolve both of us taking major losses.

Also if vendors DO honor the deals that where unhedged, you should realize they are  a GOOD FUCKING vendor...because even though they had the opportunity to fuck us over, they walked the higher road...

and this game of selling drugs...it's a rarity to see such a righteous person! 8)
Title: Re: Cancel, or NOT to Cancel, THAT is the QUESTION!
Post by: canuckboy on April 12, 2013, 06:23 pm
I plan to leave a little tip for my vendors who completes their orders.

:-)
Title: Re: Cancel, or NOT to Cancel, THAT is the QUESTION!
Post by: jhancock1984 on April 12, 2013, 06:46 pm
A lot of people lost a lot of money yesterday, I don't think it's fair for us as a community to expect vendors to bleed themselves dry.

Consider not just orders put in by people unknowingly or intentionally trying to take advantage of the situation but also orders that finalized after the crash, orders put in before the crash that vendors filled anyway (a lot did this), and bitcoins that didn't get cashed out in time (I know of at least one new vendor that lost a lot of money over this because he was sitting on to many coins).

A lot of people felt the sting, vendors and buyers.

If a vendor decides not to cancel unhedged orders more power to them and I'm sure they'll buy a hell of a lot of customer loyalty with that money.  But if they do cancel keep in mind that that may be their only option for keeping their business afloat.

Personally I dumped around $400 dollars into hedged orders yesterday and passed up on a few unhedged orders that had superior prices just so I didn't have to fuck with it.

Title: Re: Cancel, or NOT to Cancel, THAT is the QUESTION!
Post by: theupsman1 on April 12, 2013, 06:58 pm
Vendors who have been unhedged have done pretty well recently with the recent rises and when they suddenly get done by this crash they cancel nothing against it i kind of expect them to so nothing against the vendors who cancel but just pointing out they have done well recently.


But what I think is needed is for everything to be hedged no unhedged orders so then its all equal the matter what happens. This site should be used for buying drugs not for speculation speculation can be done elsewhere so we need to leave this to dollar value in my opinion which is the safest for both buyers and sellers. Lets not play the hedged and unhedged speculation game on SR. I hope this  crash teaches a few sellers who have been riding the unhedged band wagon a  lesson to go hedged from now.  If they try to go unhedged still after cancelling then they will prove the greed. If they change to hedged then fair play lessons learned.

And yea i think its pretty split 50/50 between buyers and vendors losing out, personally ive lost out in the last 2 weeks but nothing too extreme to be annoyed about as im not a big buyer.
Title: Re: Cancel, or NOT to Cancel, THAT is the QUESTION!
Post by: Thestral1 on April 12, 2013, 07:26 pm
I had placed an order literally the morning right before the big crash, the value of the purchase was $180...the value now is about $76...instead of one of us getting completely fucked I messaged my vendor and asked to compromise the situation.

Now obviously I feel like I shouldn't have to compromise, because I am sure vendors weren't complaining when their BTC value doubled, but instead of soaking the entire loss if he cancels, hopefully I can split it.

Remember, there is not much leverage I have here...he could simply cancel the order and I'm then out $100...so...hopefully this will resolve both of us taking major losses.

I'm in the same boat, and did the same thing. I've had two orders with the same vendor that's been in the 'processing' stage since Monday, placed at approximately the $150-160 valuation. Since I don't want the order canceled, I sent a message stating that I would not only post excellent reviews and praise him publicly for honoring the order, but that I would throw some extra BTC to show my appreciation.
Title: Re: Cancel, or NOT to Cancel, THAT is the QUESTION!
Post by: resalesam on April 12, 2013, 07:34 pm
I totally understand the vendor who doesn't think something is right with an order, refund rate, address, and so on. now the ones that cancel because they didn't pull their listings when btc dropped I have no love for and will not purchase product again from. i gave one vendor a large tip for not cancelling to show my appreciation and he just got a loyal customer because of it.
Title: Re: Cancel, or NOT to Cancel, THAT is the QUESTION!
Post by: MendoHashMan on April 12, 2013, 07:40 pm
I lost about 30k is this fiasco, but I am still up in the long run and still taking and shipping orders, unhedged is a gamble that the sellers choose to take, you can't pull your chips back at a casino when you see you're losing! I honored all my sales, around 2500$ that I will get less then 1k for at this price, butI have had sales that doubled in value over night and I made 200-300% what I sold it for! No seller is going hungry because of this, it is just the cost of doing business!

I say forget about working with any seller that cancels your order
Title: Re: Cancel, or NOT to Cancel, THAT is the QUESTION!
Post by: commodore64 on April 12, 2013, 07:46 pm
I lost about 30k is this fiasco, but I am still up in the long run and still taking and shipping orders, unhedged is a gamble that the sellers choose to take, you can't pull your chips back at a casino when you see you're losing! I honored all my sales, around 2500$ that I will get less then 1k for at this price, butI have had sales that doubled in value over night and I made 200-300% what I sold it for! No seller is going hungry because of this, it is just the cost of doing business!

I say forget about working with any seller that cancels your order

Does the 30k loss take into the account the money made when the value of BTC was rising?
Title: Re: Cancel, or NOT to Cancel, THAT is the QUESTION!
Post by: MendoHashMan on April 12, 2013, 08:24 pm
calculated at 250 when I thought about cashing out a large chunk but decided to hold out for 275, greed is a killer
Title: Re: Cancel, or NOT to Cancel, THAT is the QUESTION!
Post by: robotrippin on April 12, 2013, 09:04 pm
Mendo's got it right. If you look around there are lots of people here who lost lots of money. Personally I lost about $3500, and I'm not even a vendor. I just had a nice little stash of coins. We all have felt the pleasures and pains of the market.  But when it comes to business that's just the nature of dealing in Bitcoin. Sure, this drop was harsh, but the gains of the prior two weeks were just as extreme. It's part of the game.
Part of business also is minimizing losses so I can understand why some are pulling listings although I can't say I completely agree. Why you ask, here's why. For close to the last month I've been ordering and putting my BTC into escrow at one value and these same vendors have been receiving them out of escrow at a higher value.  Did I ever get that money back? No. Was I given credit for the difference? No. Now why should I be punished for any loss that was incurred during that time? Why should my order be cancelled because they fear a loss may happen? I sure as hell wasn't rewarded when it was up so why should I get punished now? I've got no issue with those who have pulled listings and explained their positions, remember this is business. But it's the ones that are cancelling orders based on how they feel at the time that are really acting like bitches.
Are you in business or not? If you are then you may not be winning right now, but if you have any clue what you are doing you should be winning in the end. If you're not then you need to get the fuck out and stay the fuck out. There's already enough scammers on SR, we don't need any more bullshit with these wannabe punks posing as vendors.
Title: Re: Cancel, or NOT to Cancel, THAT is the QUESTION!
Post by: theupsman1 on April 13, 2013, 06:49 am
as i said end of the day vendors have been riding unhedged orders and profitering on finalisation for a long time think about it. now its crashed they have the right to pull orders they have no rules or obligation to fulfil it therefore no point moaning they are running a business at the end of the day. The only thing worth complaining about is for all orders to be hedged from now on as this should be a market place and not a speculation trading platform for vendors. Whether SR would be willing to hedge every transaction is another story.

If a vendor is trying to go unhedged on a rising trend you should boycott.
Title: Re: Cancel, or NOT to Cancel, THAT is the QUESTION!
Post by: Edawg420 on April 13, 2013, 04:42 pm
....NOBODY is saying vendors don't have the right to pull their listings...but I'll be damned if i put an order in before the crash and they cancel it after because they chose to gamble and lost money....

Title: Re: Cancel, or NOT to Cancel, THAT is the QUESTION!
Post by: Trader Joes on April 13, 2013, 04:57 pm
Yes... I kept many coins when I was debating on selling at $254 but wanted to wait a bit because I got greedy. Yes... it pains me to ship Top Shelf ounces for 1.48 bitcoin but an order is an order.
Let's face it, SR isn't Walmart and scared money doesn't make money. I will take the advice of another vendor and repeat it here, sell your drugs for profit and cash out your coins ASAP.
As a buyer, buy and use your coins as soon as you want to make a purchase.
Title: Re: Cancel, or NOT to Cancel, THAT is the QUESTION!
Post by: RicFlairIsGod86 on April 13, 2013, 05:10 pm
Vendors who cancel deserve to be forced off of SR. Period.

ESPECIALLY WHEN THEY CANCEL BECAUSE THEY TOOK TOO LONG TO SHIP IT OUT. I ORDERED ROUGHLY 28 HOURS BEFORE THE CRASH EVEN STARTED. BTC WERE GOING UP WHEN I ORDERED.