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Discussion => Drug safety => Topic started by: B1-66ER on May 22, 2013, 04:21 pm

Title: I'm going to try Ketamine for my depression
Post by: B1-66ER on May 22, 2013, 04:21 pm
how should I take it, and in what doses?

this will be my first time doing Ket
Title: Re: I'm going to try Ketamine for my depression
Post by: Naloxone on May 22, 2013, 04:48 pm
There has been papers on depression and ketamine and drugs are being developed to try and act like ketamine to be fast acting antidepressants. I personally wouldn't use it to treat depression though. I generally have a nice trip. Find the K hole if I do enough but it doesn't do much to my mood.

Also self medicating isn't generally a good idea.

I assume you're on antidepressants? Tried CBT? Online CBT?
Title: Re: I'm going to try Ketamine for my depression
Post by: Shagedelic on May 22, 2013, 05:39 pm
I'd do LSD for depression.  It has a sort of undeniable positivity.  Try 350ug
Title: Re: I'm going to try Ketamine for my depression
Post by: zipstyle on May 22, 2013, 09:55 pm
how should I take it, and in what doses?

this will be my first time doing Ket

I highly recommend reading through this article:
http://www.socialanxietysupport.com/forum/f30/how-to-use-ketamine-as-an-antidepressant-114431/

I can also give personal experience info if you'd like :)
Title: Re: I'm going to try Ketamine for my depression
Post by: le botbahn on May 23, 2013, 06:44 am
Thanks for that link Zip, I'm about to read that right now.

@OP, I don't know the source of your depression but I decided to give ketamine a go recently in hope of reigning in depression and severe mood swings brought on from discontinuing regular stimulant use.
Here's another interesting article where it was used to treat a type of bipolar disorder in children with great success.
http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/2013/03/25/174928768/how-an-unlikely-drug-helps-some-children-consumed-by-fear

There's a link to the original publication at the end of that article. I followed the dosing range and schedule in that publication (up to 125 mg every 3 days) with very satisfying results.
Title: Re: I'm going to try Ketamine for my depression
Post by: joywind on May 23, 2013, 08:03 am
low dosages. low dosages were used in the studies that found an antidepressive effect for ketamine.

As for using LSD to treat depression... yes LSD can be helpful in therapeutic settings to treat depression by giving a person a new perspective on life, but since LSD therapy is illegal...and people would be most likely tripping alone... i would recommend against it... having personally had bad trips... that made my depression worse......
Title: Re: I'm going to try Ketamine for my depression
Post by: Luvs2Trip on May 23, 2013, 08:14 am
how should I take it, and in what doses?

this will be my first time doing Ket

I don't know about K for depression but if its you first time i would say snort a small bump and wait 10-20 minutes then judge how you feel of that and then if you want more carry on taking small bumps until you feel you have taken enough
Title: Re: I'm going to try Ketamine for my depression
Post by: reich on May 23, 2013, 08:30 am
how should I take it, and in what doses?

this will be my first time doing Ket

I don't know about K for depression but if its you first time i would say snort a small bump and wait 10-20 minutes then judge how you feel of that and then if you want more carry on taking small bumps until you feel you have taken enough

We think this is that good advice, except the end part about "feeling you have taken enough". Firstly dose varies based on body weight & gender and your past drug experience will also affect what you think of it. We highly suggest you do not go over 30-50mg for your first few times as K-holes can be scary to people not used to dissociation  and won't really be useful for depression in anyway. Also begin on an empty stomach as people new to K often get queasy otherwise.

We'd also point out we've seen a lot of people use ketamine and not really seen it effectively been used for depression, but then you could also argue we're usually around recreation users than those who are using it medically. We'd advise what Naloxone said, self medicating will work for a short while but after that you will be back where you started.

Title: Re: I'm going to try Ketamine for my depression
Post by: joywind on May 23, 2013, 07:26 pm
how should I take it, and in what doses?

this will be my first time doing Ket


We'd also point out we've seen a lot of people use ketamine and not really seen it effectively been used for depression, but then you could also argue we're usually around recreation users than those who are using it medically. We'd advise what Naloxone said, self medicating will work for a short while but after that you will be back where you started.
you're talking about people who are using recreational dosages of ketamine... when it is used to reat depresssion, the dosage is very low.... not even enough to feel much of an effect
Title: Re: I'm going to try Ketamine for my depression
Post by: Wepromisetwenty on May 23, 2013, 07:41 pm
Speaking from experience, I wouldn't recommend this as a long term plan.

Ketamine does have good antidepressant properties - this is absolutely true. It also has some very strong other properties though, like - being completely off your face. Its a difficult one for every day use if you want to be a functioning human being. You can maintain yourself on low doses but you'll have to re-dose often.

Also, long term daily use will probably eventually cause you to have bladder and stomach problems (again, speaking from experience). This is different for everyone, some users take years to develop these symptoms, others months. If you're just interested in experimenting with it, then go for it - but start small, very small. Like 10mg. Also, don't judge it on the first few days - as with most dissociatives there's a kind of "break through" period. Its usually about a week for me, before I really get to grips with it. Im not sure of the science behind this, but its almost like your body needs to learn how to process the stuff, and adapts accordingly. After about a week you'd be better equipped to make a judgement of whether it was working for you or not.

Now, with all this said - I don't actually think K is the way forward. I few years ago I would have agreed. But since MXE appeared, I think this would probably be a better bet for you (if you can get your hands on good quality MXE). It has a longer half life (so you only need to re-dose every 2-4 hours), and doesnt have the same trippy effects as K does at low doses. Your speech will also be less slurred. Its just generally more stealthy. And the best part - it also has a MUCH more notable anti-depressant effect.

I can literally quantify this.... if i'm doing MXE for a few days, and I do some K, the K will actually bring me down. I've been daily using MXE pretty much since it became available (with a 5 month break after the ban), and ive observed no negative effects on my health other than dehydration. So yeah, much better if your serious about self medicating.

One thing I will say though - is that BOTH of these substances are addictive. Not physically, but mentally. They're also very morish. So it requires a strong will to manage your dosage without going over the top. Your tolerance will increase either way, but you should try to keep your consumption down as much as possible. I take a week or two break every couple of months - just to know I can.

Finally, for some extra info on MXE's antidepressant value, you might be interested in this article: CLEARNET: http://www.vice.com/en_uk/read/interview-with-ketamine-chemist-704-v18n2


Good luck 8)
Title: Re: I'm going to try Ketamine for my depression
Post by: tree on May 23, 2013, 07:50 pm
^ Ketamine as an antidepressant only needs to be used every 7 days, you don't need to redose every two hours and be constantly high!!
Title: Re: I'm going to try Ketamine for my depression
Post by: Wepromisetwenty on May 23, 2013, 08:34 pm
^ Ketamine as an antidepressant only needs to be used every 7 days, you don't need to redose every two hours and be constantly high!!

Are you talking about tripping your box off once a week? This is interesting to me, that the effects of the experience could linger on long after the drug has left your being.

Theres two ways i've known people to use K for depression. This, and the low dose and often way.

Admittedly, this would be way better for your body. Has anybody here tried this? I'd love to hear a first hand story of its success or otherwise.
Title: Re: I'm going to try Ketamine for my depression
Post by: The Scientist on May 23, 2013, 09:24 pm
Also, long term daily use will probably eventually cause...
You're not supposed to be using it daily for depression. Once a week (or two weeks), low dose.
Title: Re: I'm going to try Ketamine for my depression
Post by: tree on May 23, 2013, 09:42 pm
^ Ketamine as an antidepressant only needs to be used every 7 days, you don't need to redose every two hours and be constantly high!!

Are you talking about tripping your box off once a week? This is interesting to me, that the effects of the experience could linger on long after the drug has left your being.

Theres two ways i've known people to use K for depression. This, and the low dose and often way.

Admittedly, this would be way better for your body. Has anybody here tried this? I'd love to hear a first hand story of its success or otherwise.
Well all the studies I've read were about a dose every 7 to 10 days. Ketamine's antidepressant effect isn't due to you being high but because it reverses neurological damage, so you get more neuronal connexions, which alleviate depression. At least that's what the study I read said. They didn't say why the effect only lasted up to 10 days though, but the effect is definitely not because of you being high. And it wasn't k-holing once a week either a dose enough to cause some noticeable intoxication like 50mg insufflated I'd say, or 25mg IV.
Title: Re: I'm going to try Ketamine for my depression
Post by: B1-66ER on May 24, 2013, 11:21 am
My ketamine arrived and I'm about to try my first dose.

should I go with 10mg orally or something higher?  :-X
Title: Re: I'm going to try Ketamine for my depression
Post by: tree on May 24, 2013, 01:36 pm
10 mg orally is extremely small, I'd suggest more like 40-50mg orally if you wanna go that route. If you snort it you could take little doses like 20mg and it'd work I think.
Title: Re: I'm going to try Ketamine for my depression
Post by: B1-66ER on May 24, 2013, 04:09 pm
Preliminary results from a 10mg line:
my depression has subsided greatly, for the first time in months I opened my blinds, looked at the world with a positive outlook and gave off a genuine smile. As a meditator, I know myself and my depression very well, even the smallest changes in my attitude or brain activity would be noticed. So I can say the disease has **definitely** been 'treated' by the ketamine. If only this was permanent!

 ;D
Title: Re: I'm going to try Ketamine for my depression
Post by: ProudCannabian on May 24, 2013, 04:41 pm
low dosages. low dosages were used in the studies that found an antidepressive effect for ketamine.

As for using LSD to treat depression... yes LSD can be helpful in therapeutic settings to treat depression by giving a person a new perspective on life, but since LSD therapy is illegal...and people would be most likely tripping alone... i would recommend against it... having personally had bad trips... that made my depression worse......

Actually there are a few doctors in the US and Europe that are doing LSD therapy research once again, under very controlled conditions.

There is also an LSD conference for researchers and psychologists every year in the states.

;)


I find the depression lifting aspect of Ketamine to be rather subtle.  I don't feel VERY different, but I don't carry that deep pit inside for a few days after my K experience.  I currently have four family members dealing with cancer, two people have died in the last two years in my life, and I have a crappy marriage... so a K experience once every week or so helps keep me on track.
Title: Re: I'm going to try Ketamine for my depression
Post by: Dopamin on May 24, 2013, 07:52 pm
Funny, just logged in to the road to document my experience with K. Forgive me to repost, but this really belongs here too:

Roughly four months passed now, I still have 1/2g left and kept book about my use. I always snort it.

Some statistics:

total amount of times used: 12
total amount of material used: 580mg

average time-span between uses: 9 days
average amount of material used: 50mg
 
numbers in parenthesis show the next value, if you remove longest and shortest time span, highest and lowest amount of material
shortest time span between uses: 3 days (7)
longest time span between uses: 16 (15)

highest amount used 90mg (80)
lowest amount used 10mg (10)

I read about the mind-blowing effect of ketamine on depression. My impression is, that I use K subconsciously to treat my depression. The cravings have gone so far, I stopped thinking about K. But from time to time I get the very obvious feeling I want to use K now. The last two or three experiences I was really tired when I used K and fell asleep about 30 minutes into the trip. My overall life-satisfaction has increased drastically. I lost a lot, if not all, social anxiety, I got a job in April with a really good perspective and I grew up a lot. I want a relationship now instead of just fucking around... All in all, I have a life now! I found new interests, started to work on long-term goals, job-wise as leisure-time wise. And I fulfill them. I learned to control my affection and I can delay things like playing computer games if I have more important things to do. To be honest, this text just developed because I was too bored playing my MMORPG ;)

I play with the idea of ordering another g just to have some material at hand to treat any surprise-symptoms. I think I have no problem with K, but will monitor my usage closely. 

K might sound like a wonder drug now, but I changed a lot of my habits, worked hard on myself and had a tough time. You can follow my development in my other posts, about a year ago I was just a shadow of myself today. Allthouhg, used wisely, I think K can help you a lot to get back on track. It can wreck you though, without question, too.
Title: Re: I'm going to try Ketamine for my depression
Post by: BYSD on May 24, 2013, 11:14 pm
I'd do LSD for depression.  It has a sort of undeniable positivity.  Try 350ug

I absolutely agree, i suffered from treatment resistant depression and LSD was my Savior.

I enjoy Ketamine regularly  but it never helped my depression (on occasions quite the opposite) but different strokes for different blokes :)

what I have read is that the trials conducted in this area suggest that sub threshold or very low doses should be used to treat this ailment. Interestingly i read a report today about fairly advanced  trials with 'Esketamine' to treat depression which confused me.. as i understood it, esketsmine was just Ketanest S, the S+ isomer.
Title: Re: I'm going to try Ketamine for my depression
Post by: bull3gern on May 25, 2013, 04:43 am
I could not say whether it helped with depression; as I understood it it was in a controlled medical environment. For me, I felt isolated, as though I were compartmentalized in a tousand clear ice-cube trays. It will be apparent as to it's use as an emergency anastetic (like in a battlefield). After 2-4 times, I got used to it, maybe even getting in a (small) K-hole. I did not find it unpleasant as all. Very dissasociative, but also very "quiet", unlike Salvia, which is all motion and tentacles. I did not experience any major hallucinations. I am planning on ordering some more.

As far as dosage: take a pile of K about the size of the visible part of a pencil erasure, and do 1/4 in each nostril. Nothing will happen for about 1.5 min, then it hits. It lasts about 1 hour, plus or minus 10. You don't have to worry that you'll quit breathing as Ketamine does not depress cardiopulminary punction (hence as emergency anastetic - where the medics don't know the victim's fluid level (have they lost too much blood, etc. All in all, I learned to enjoy it aster about 2 times; do wait a few days in between sessions.
Title: Re: I'm going to try Ketamine for my depression
Post by: tree on May 26, 2013, 06:47 pm
Interestingly i read a report today about fairly advanced  trials with 'Esketamine' to treat depression which confused me.. as i understood it, esketsmine was just Ketanest S, the S+ isomer.
Well esketamine is (S)-ketamine just like (R)-modafinil is "armodafinil" or "escitalopram" is (S)-citalopram, it's because "es" sounds like (S) :P
Title: Re: I'm going to try Ketamine for my depression
Post by: LSDLucidity on May 27, 2013, 06:17 am
I've been snorting ~50mg every 2 weeks with good results. That's just what works for me though, I'm no doctor.
Title: Re: I'm going to try Ketamine for my depression
Post by: Naloxone on May 27, 2013, 06:19 am
Preliminary results from a 10mg line:
my depression has subsided greatly, for the first time in months I opened my blinds, looked at the world with a positive outlook and gave off a genuine smile. As a meditator, I know myself and my depression very well, even the smallest changes in my attitude or brain activity would be noticed. So I can say the disease has **definitely** been 'treated' by the ketamine. If only this was permanent!

 ;D
I take back my post trying to discourage you from taking it. I am very glad that it has worked for you. Depression is such a debilitating thing. I really hope that this can work for you in the long term. Just be careful!
Title: Re: I'm going to try Ketamine for my depression
Post by: Wepromisetwenty on May 27, 2013, 08:09 am
^ Ketamine as an antidepressant only needs to be used every 7 days, you don't need to redose every two hours and be constantly high!!

Are you talking about tripping your box off once a week? This is interesting to me, that the effects of the experience could linger on long after the drug has left your being.

Theres two ways i've known people to use K for depression. This, and the low dose and often way.

Admittedly, this would be way better for your body. Has anybody here tried this? I'd love to hear a first hand story of its success or otherwise.
Well all the studies I've read were about a dose every 7 to 10 days. Ketamine's antidepressant effect isn't due to you being high but because it reverses neurological damage, so you get more neuronal connexions, which alleviate depression. At least that's what the study I read said. They didn't say why the effect only lasted up to 10 days though, but the effect is definitely not because of you being high. And it wasn't k-holing once a week either a dose enough to cause some noticeable intoxication like 50mg insufflated I'd say, or 25mg IV.

I think when I read about this it was a really long time ago. Like many years ago. I remembered it being a proposal though, rather than a tried and tested method. Its cool to hear its working for people - I'm still totally baffled by the science of it though. I'd heard of people trying it on forums and the like, but nothing concrete to say it worked.

I once read a story about someone who had suffered from lifelong depression (no idea what country it referred to) - and as a last resort they gave the lady a controlled K trip. I think it was a significant dose of IM ketamine - in a bid to "reset" her thinking. Apparently it worked. May or may not have been total bullshit though - it wasn't an academic report, just a story that was published. Wish I could find it now though.
Title: Re: I'm going to try Ketamine for my depression
Post by: Wepromisetwenty on May 27, 2013, 08:11 am
Preliminary results from a 10mg line:
my depression has subsided greatly, for the first time in months I opened my blinds, looked at the world with a positive outlook and gave off a genuine smile. As a meditator, I know myself and my depression very well, even the smallest changes in my attitude or brain activity would be noticed. So I can say the disease has **definitely** been 'treated' by the ketamine. If only this was permanent!

 ;D

Hey. congrats :) Hope it lasts a while for you!
Title: Re: I'm going to try Ketamine for my depression
Post by: morganeverett on May 28, 2013, 07:10 am
Depression is a fickle creature. Sometimes one type of drug works for an individual, but it has no effect on depression in another person. After being diagnosed most patients cycle 2-3 SSRIs before finding one or a combination that works for them.

Good to see it worked for OP though.
Title: Re: I'm going to try Ketamine for my depression
Post by: zipstyle on May 29, 2013, 07:26 am
Depression is a fickle creature. Sometimes one type of drug works for an individual, but it has no effect on depression in another person. After being diagnosed most patients cycle 2-3 SSRIs before finding one or a combination that works for them.

Good to see it worked for OP though.

Ah, this is so true. I recently had a depressive state cured by ~5 mg rectally administered 2C-E.
And I mean, I had no real way of knowing that it would resolve anything, really. I just thought I was gonna trip a bit. And lo and behold! Depression swept away :)