Silk Road forums
Discussion => Philosophy, Economics and Justice => Topic started by: Fr33Sombrer0 on February 23, 2013, 07:22 pm
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serious question
does being part of such an obviously free market make you reconsider whether your political ideals are achievable
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better still: string 'em up to highest lamp post. >:( >:( >:(
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better still: string 'em up to highest lamp post. >:( >:( >:(
who will the socialists steal money from once all the productive people are dead 0_0
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i really think they do a good enough job of that alone
that was kind of the point of this post
there is no possible way to exist without partaking in some form of free market transaction. so any complete denial of the free market carries with it a complete denial of the very way in which human beings assign value to objects.
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I don't consider myself a Marxist, but I think some what he said (the little I've read) carries weight.
Maybe I'm way off here, and don't quite understand what is meant. But does the SR count as a truly free market? There are lots of rules (call them laws/regulations), *and* they're enforced by someone who cannot be held accountable.
I love SR, and it's working really well like this, but does it count as a free market? If a free market can have rules, what makes one market free and another not?
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better still: string 'em up to highest lamp post. >:( >:( >:(
who will the socialists steal money from once all the productive people are dead 0_0
Who the fuck cares about money? i guess your dumb ass.
Let me guess you think people are special for coming up with ideas too? If they didn't come up with it someone else would down the line.
Look at what genius(or so we call it) inventions have been created by people throughout time. Now imagine if they were created collectively aimed at one goal, creating a better future for one another.
It really isn't that crazy of an idea, with enough people we can fucking do anything....but then again i am just a stupid human like you guys what do i know
p.s. sorry OP for not answering the question i'm not really sure if i agree with either. I Needz more knowledge can i haz?
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I don't consider myself a Marxist, but I think some what he said (the little I've read) carries weight.
Maybe I'm way off here, and don't quite understand what is meant. But does the SR count as a truly free market? There are lots of rules (call them laws/regulations), *and* they're enforced by someone who cannot be held accountable.
I love SR, and it's working really well like this, but does it count as a free market? If a free market can have rules, what makes one market free and another not?
generally, a free market is defined as a market where the distribution and price point of goods are determined by supply and demand, unhindered by any central authority. in our case, the market forces (for instance, how many vendors are selling great acid, and how many people are looking to buy great acid), not sr administration, set the pricing guidelines.
most of the "rules" round here are really more along the lines of suggestions/guidelines. the only real rules i can think of off the top of my head (it's a little too late in the night to actually research this) are rules regulating who can and cannot become a vendor, and the terms and conditions of being one; i tend to think of those more along the lines of virtual rent contracts between the owners of, say, a shopping mall and their retailers.
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anarcho-communist master race reporting in. Just tend to ignore the misguided free market bullshit and hope that improved access to LSD will help the ideological base see the errors of its ways
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better still: string 'em up to highest lamp post. >:( >:( >:(
who will the socialists steal money from once all the productive people are dead 0_0
Who the fuck cares about money? i guess your dumb ass.
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we all care about money, in that money is one of many different ways in which we assign value to objects (in the linguistic sense, not necessarily in the sense of physical objects).
let's say i have 50 dollars. you have the one pair of mint condition limited edition spiderman boxer shorts that will complete my set, thereby permanently removing any risk i have of contracting a venereal disease. i think that's worth 50 dollars, but you like those boxers alot, and won't sell. all of a sudden you discover that your neighbor is selling a vinyl copy of dark side of the moon signed by jenna jameson that you ABSOLUTELY HAVE TO HAVE, but wants 50 dollars for it, which you don't have. he won't accept your spiderman undies as payment, so now you think maybe they are worth 50 dollars after all. i give you the 50 dollars; you give me the undergarment and get yourself the record.
that's how money works in the marketplace. it's a means of approximating value.
as far as what money (or, i should say, currency) is: it's how you conserve the fruits of your labor without literally hanging on to the fruits of your labor.
imagine that you were a farmer, and a damn good one to boot. you grow an absolutely stupendous amount of potatoes. let's say 3,500 a day, just so we're safely on the imaginary side of things. let's also stipulate that all you consume are potatoes, and also that your house and car and everything else you own is powered by and built with potatoes, and yet you still find yourself with a surplus of 50 potatoes each day you worked hard, breaking your hands and back and spirit in the hard soil and whatnot. let's also imagine that your neighbor love potatoes, but can't seem to get the hang of growing them. they would like to consume 200 potatoes a day, but can only grow 150. let's also imagine he used to fuck your wife and pick on you in highschool.
like i said, you consume nothing but potatoes, they're all you need to survive. so your neighbor obviously has nothing to trade you for. you have three options: let those extra potatoes rot, wasting all the hard work you put into growing them; give him the potatoes for free, which would leave you feeling like your old nemesis got the better of you; or trade them for currency - rocks, coins, whatever - according to the method described earlier. the third option is the one where everyone wins; it assigns a value to your hard work, allowing you to reap the fruits of your labor without having to watch them rot away; it also allows your neighbor to consume all the potatoes he needs.
it's a win win.
Let me guess you think people are special for coming up with ideas too? If they didn't come up with it someone else would down the line.
Look at what genius(or so we call it) inventions have been created by people throughout time. Now imagine if they were created collectively aimed at one goal, creating a better future for one another.
this point isn't entirely clear, but i think what you're saying is that inventions, throughout history, have not been invented with the best interest of humanity in mind. this is a dubious point; none of us have access to the goings on inside of those inventors minds.
but let's assume you're right(and that i'm understanding you correctly); let's assume that these were all selfish individuals with nothing but their own gain in mind. if their inventions did help propel humanity forward - who cares what their intentions were?
edison, for instance, was a narrow minded asshole in many ways. but good goddamn, i sure do love having a light on in my house, listening to records and watching movies.
in the grand scheme of things, humanity is always progressing, and the lives of humans the world over are better for it. whether or not any one individual has the betterment of humanity in mind when he gives that process a little kickstart is beside the point.
It really isn't that crazy of an idea, with enough people we can fucking do anything....but then again i am just a stupid human like you guys what do i know
this is a terrible attitude. humans are not stupid.
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anarcho-communist master race reporting in. Just tend to ignore the misguided free market bullshit and hope that improved access to LSD will help the ideological base see the errors of its ways
i figured i'd get at least one response like this.
doesn't really answer the question though; do you have any misgivings about the notion that a market where price is unregulated by any central authority is an intrinsically bad thing?
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anarcho-communist master race reporting in. Just tend to ignore the misguided free market bullshit and hope that improved access to LSD will help the ideological base see the errors of its ways
i figured i'd get at least one response like this.
doesn't really answer the question though; do you have any misgivings about the notion that a market where price is unregulated by any central authority is an intrinsically bad thing?
As an abstract notion, an unregulated market within the capitalist system is probably preferable. I can't really answer the question as phrased because it's all kinds of double negatives
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Compared to what we could be i believe we are fucking idiots. Nowhere did i say inventors were selfish. You made many assumptions without thinking about what i said more deeply. Although i respect your opinion, hopefully you are compassionate enough to respect mine. As for the whole money thing i think most of us here have the pretty basic concept that you explained to me down. The point i was trying to make is there are more important things than money. I get this opinion from comparing the happiness levels of say a poor Chinese rice farmer and an extremely wealthy business man. I may not be the same but hey that's not important. I don't believe you understood exactly what i was trying to say, sometimes i forget that we aren't all on the same page. I also realize my use of the English language isn't the greatest in the world =D. My sincere apologies.
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For the record I think a distinction should always be made between "capitalism" and free markets. Most people I know would consider the current US economy a capitalist one but it's obviously nowhere near a free market. It's a mixed market at best.
Truly free markets are difficult to find although some places might be close (some might argue that SR is close). Most of the Marxists that I know are (somewhat) against centralized authority so I try not to pick fights with them. Anarcho-syndicalists and voluntarists fighting is exactly what the government wants.
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I'm personally of the opinion that money is not real. As mentioned before, it's only value is that which we assign to it and that varies wildly from person to person.
My wife still believes in money and I don't want to fuck with her belief system so I let her go to work, buy all the food and pay all the bills while I sit at home looking at internet porn and watching TV.
When I was a kid my grandest dream was to have nothing. It's taken many years and a commitment to the cause but I now have nothing and couldn't be happier. I try to tell my wife how great it is being free of capitalistic oppression but she always just gets made and we normally end up in a big fight.
I keep telling her that if she doesn't want to be the sole bread winner I could always go get a job for a while and have sex with all the pretty girls I meet out in the real world but even that doesn't make her feel any better.
I think some people just need money to feel good about themselves but for me, being penniless is the greatest feeling in the world!
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I am socialist, and I belive and we'll I don't fully embrace the theory of taxation.. I belive that if people work for the money that they have, and they should be able to spend it on whatever they want. This market is just a personal connection to those things in which the crap society that we live in limits us from buying...
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so you're not a socialist?
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I'm personally of the opinion that money is not real. As mentioned before, it's only value is that which we assign to it and that varies wildly from person to person.
My wife still believes in money and I don't want to fuck with her belief system so I let her go to work, buy all the food and pay all the bills while I sit at home looking at internet porn and watching TV.
When I was a kid my grandest dream was to have nothing. It's taken many years and a commitment to the cause but I now have nothing and couldn't be happier. I try to tell my wife how great it is being free of capitalistic oppression but she always just gets made and we normally end up in a big fight.
I keep telling her that if she doesn't want to be the sole bread winner I could always go get a job for a while and have sex with all the pretty girls I meet out in the real world but even that doesn't make her feel any better.
I think some people just need money to feel good about themselves but for me, being penniless is the greatest feeling in the world!
LOL... that post is crazy awesome. Thanks.