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Discussion => Drug safety => Topic started by: go4green on October 24, 2012, 11:58 pm

Title: Why can't I trip ?
Post by: go4green on October 24, 2012, 11:58 pm
Hi there  :)

I'm currently a cannabis user only. Used to be an occasional opiate user. I haven't done anything besides these.
With the discovery of SR, I decided to try MDMA, and I also tried shrooms recently.
I felt absolutely NOTHING!

I went up to 4 caps, and still nil, zero, zlich!

I don't want to name vendors. I read somewhere that if you're on antidepressants you won't feel any effect.

I'm on Cymbalta -90mg. I've been on others in the past.

So can be this the reason?

I just want to make sure before blaming vendors.

Please note that these were my 1st time ever doing MDMA and shrooms.

Any idea?


Title: Re: Why can't I trip ?
Post by: Niriane on October 25, 2012, 12:04 am
Usually the intensity of your trip depends on how empty your stomach is, the amount of sleep you've gotten, and whether or not you're taking certain medications.
Title: Re: Why can't I trip ?
Post by: optical1 on October 25, 2012, 12:08 am
Yeah that is most likely the reason why you didnt feel an effect from mdma. Its also quite dangerous, you could really mess your serotonin up. The anti dep is telling your brain not to release the serotonin, the mdma is fighting to release it all at once. Serotonin Syndrome is not something to be taken lightly.... im not a medical expert but if you did a bit of research on google im sure you would get the answers your looking for :)
Title: Re: Why can't I trip ?
Post by: go4green on October 25, 2012, 12:29 am
Thanks guys!

Can anyone recommend a drug that I'd still enjoy without messing up with my serotonin?

Also, would it be a good idea to dump my anti-dep for couple of days before trying something?
..I know the withdrawals are kinda nasty.. but I still wanna enjoy myself like regular people  :'(
Title: Re: Why can't I trip ?
Post by: Reece on October 25, 2012, 12:34 am
Thanks guys!

Can anyone recommend a drug that I'd still enjoy without messing up with my serotonin?

Also, would it be a good idea to dump my anti-dep for couple of days before trying something?
..I know the withdrawals are kinda nasty.. but I still wanna enjoy myself like regular people  :'(

Try looking into LSD and 2c-b.
You were put on your medication for a reason, I wouldn't advise dropping it.
Title: Re: Why can't I trip ?
Post by: sup3rm4n on October 25, 2012, 12:54 am
Keep on them :)

Youll get there eventually! Trust me.

Mixing SSRI's (think Cymbalta is one??) and MDMA can cause some issues, so if you were to stop them i think its something like 2 weeks or so. But if you want drugs that dont interfere with serotonin then id also say acid. Fun, long and can be a pretty fuckin good time with the right set, setting and dose.
Title: Re: Why can't I trip ?
Post by: Ben on October 25, 2012, 01:37 am
Using something like duloxetine/cymbalta will certainly reduce your ability to trip on mdma and such. Attempting to do so may in fact be dangerous, so I'd suggest never combining them.

Do not blame the vendors though. These medications will simply prevent you to experience the effects of such drugs, even if they are top notch quality.
Title: Re: Why can't I trip ?
Post by: flicky42 on October 25, 2012, 03:21 am
Just about every psychedelic interferres with serotonin and the research is inconclusive on how damaging it can be to mix these drugs. I would stay far away if I was you though from all pyscs including LSD and shrooms.

Give cocaine a shot if you really want to experience a powerful high but even then when you are trying to regulate your brain chemistry with SSRI's its generally not a good idea to do any powerful drug.
Title: Re: Why can't I trip ?
Post by: gestaltassault2 on October 25, 2012, 08:10 am
Cymbalta is a SNRI (serotonin-norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor)

that's most likely the thing blocking the effects of your MDMA and shrooms...

I'm seeing this way to often in these forums...I would've thought that by now it would be common knowledge that mixing antidepressants with MDMA and psychedelics is always a bad idea...

However, with the advent of SR...it's so much easier for uninformed individuals to get their hands on drugs...

do yourself a favor and do your research before ingesting your drugs...it'll save you money and potentially your life....

i spent a few weeks just googling articles and reading everything i could about LSD before i even touched the stuff...and i have done the same for every other drug i've consumed since then...

in this day and age where information is right at your fingertips there is no excuse for making uninformed decisions...

start here (clearnet) http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/mdma/mdma_info9.shtml
Title: Re: Why can't I trip ?
Post by: go4green on October 25, 2012, 08:28 am
Well, I did a bit of reading, but I guess I missed the anti-depressants part! .. Thanks all for all the info provided.
I guess there will be no midgets dancing and unicorns in my shower  :'(. .. oh well
Title: Re: Why can't I trip ?
Post by: ianfleming on October 25, 2012, 11:20 am
Quote
Also, would it be a good idea to dump my anti-dep for couple of days before trying something?
A few days wont do it, SSRIs and Tricyclic antidepressants tend to linger in the brain for weeks.

I'd wait at least a month before trying anything psychedelic or entacnogenic.

Maybe you could use some dissociatives like ketamine or some shit (not a dissociative fan), as I don't think they require the serotonin system to function.
Title: Re: Why can't I trip ?
Post by: go4green on October 30, 2012, 05:25 pm
Thanks again!

I'd appreciate if anyone can tell me whether antidepressants can also mask the effects of:
-Alcohol
-weed
-opioid


Title: Re: Why can't I trip ?
Post by: flicky42 on October 30, 2012, 09:47 pm
Thanks again!

I'd appreciate if anyone can tell me whether antidepressants can also mask the effects of:
-Alcohol
-weed
-opioid

They won't mask the effecst of any of them, but there is still a danger of getting VERY drunk on antidepressants. Alcohol increasing the bioavilability of pretty much every drug (I think it lowers the density of fluid allowing drugs to move through blood and the body more quickly). So don't get wasted all the time on anti-depressants it isn't good for you.
Title: Re: Why can't I trip ?
Post by: Ensine99 on October 31, 2012, 12:50 am
if you really need antidepressants and also want to trip or roll I'd advise getting prescribed Selegiline instead of an SSRI or SNRI, if you want to potentate doses you want to be prescribed Moclobemide
I'm currently taking it and with nbomes/shrooms/4-aco-dmt it doesn't appear to have any kind of downside, it maybe increases trip duration by about 10% (30-50 minutes prob) and around the same degree of intensification.
Also it apparently helps reduce neurotoxicity caused from rolling, although I find that it tends to increase the amphetamine effect.

"    A more radical approach is the use of the MAOI L-Deprenyl (Selegiline), which has proven to be extremely effective in preventing MDMA neurotoxicity in lab animals and does not interfere with MDMA's desired activity. In theory, Deprenyl is arguably the most potentially effective neuroprotective regimen, but more work needs to be done before any substantive statement on safety can be made. Several users have reported taking Deprenyl before MDMA with little or no effect (one user reported that Deprenyl made the MDMA dose uncomfortably 'speedy'.) In order to use Deprenyl as a neuroprotectant, a moderate dose (perhaps 5 mg) should be taken before the MDMA. This combination may prove to be quite dangerous! People experimenting with it should be medically knowledgeable and have a support system in place to provide immediate emergency medical attention if a problem arises."
Title: Re: Why can't I trip ?
Post by: Ben on October 31, 2012, 01:16 am
Alcohol increasing the bioavilability of pretty much every drug (I think it lowers the density of fluid allowing drugs to move through blood and the body more quickly). So don't get wasted all the time on anti-depressants it isn't good for you.

Alcohol does no such thing - drinking yourself unconscious would not even result in a noticeable decrease in specific gravity or viscosity of the blood, although it may hinder clotting, which may make blood -appear- 'more fluid'.

Alcohol does, however, interact with virtually all psychoactive substances in one way or another. The relationship with benzodiazepines is mostly synergistic, actually making that a good combination in terms of desired effects, but that also poses severe risks of respiratory depression and is therefor not recommended (though plenty of people do combine them despite the warnings with little incident).

The interaction with hallucinogens, cannabis and opiates is a bit more complex - sometimes its synergistic, sometimes paradoxal, and sometimes completely unexpected.

As for the combination of alcohol and ssri's: its advised against in the leaflet that comes with the ssri, but the interaction isn't that large usually. SSRI's may slightly alter the effects of alcohol though, mostly moving them from sedative to stimulating. This can explain why somone on SSRI's may drink more before falling asleep from the alcohol.

In any case, SSRI's are tricky: i've taken them on doctors advice, and the effects were certainly rather odd. For the first week or so i felt like was on stimulants and hypnotics at the same time, and besides that a bit of a 'flu-like' sensation of not feeling generally well. This feeling dissipates over the course of a few weeks however, leaving mostly apathy as a side effect.

Oddly i was prescribed SSRI's to deal with anxiety rather then depression, and they didn't prove very effective at all. I found that alprazolam is much more effective for me, stopping all of the negative effects of the ssri's, while adding little to no new side effects.

Obviously this is only an observation for anxyolytic effects, not of the antidepressant ones. I still believe ssri's are a very useful tool for dealing with depression, but i feel like that they are too easily prescribed for 'any kind of psychological problem', even if its outside of the scope these medications have been proven to effectively treat.
Title: Re: Why can't I trip ?
Post by: microRNA on October 31, 2012, 05:23 am
since you mention mixing maoi with mdma i must clarify this can be EXTREMELY DANGEROUS

you are technically not supposed to mix mdma with an maoi because of the danger for potentially fatal serotonin syndrome or hypertension

they may be using a special maoi or a very low dose of it, but this should not be done by inexperienced individuals without medical supervision 

from MAPS, a list of MAOIs and contradicted drugs and foods (they dont mention ssris but these are also included)
https://www.maps.org/news-letters/v06n1/06158mao.html

(Partial list): amphetamines, cocaine, MDMA, opiates, barbiturates, deconjestants & allergy medications, cold medications, diet pills, methylphenidate, asthma inhalers, meperidine, levodopa, dopamine, carbamazapine, certain antihypertensive medications, sympathomimetic amines (direct & indirect acting) including psuedoephedrine & ephidrine.

Table 2. Contraindicated Foods

cheese, L-tyrosine, liver, broad beans, dry sausage, beer & ale, chocolate, sauerkraut, ripe avocado yeast extracts, caffeine, raspberry jam, certain nuts, dried fruit, banana peel, soy bean products, vermouth, cognac, sherry, chianti, smoked meat, poultry & fish, protein dietary supplements, meat extracts & tenderizers
Title: Re: Why can't I trip ?
Post by: Ensine99 on October 31, 2012, 04:22 pm
since you mention mixing maoi with mdma i must clarify this can be EXTREMELY DANGEROUS

you are technically not supposed to mix mdma with an maoi because of the danger for potentially fatal serotonin syndrome or hypertension

they may be using a special maoi or a very low dose of it, but this should not be done by inexperienced individuals without medical supervision 

from MAPS, a list of MAOIs and contradicted drugs and foods (they dont mention ssris but these are also included)
https://www.maps.org/news-letters/v06n1/06158mao.html

(Partial list): amphetamines, cocaine, MDMA, opiates, barbiturates, deconjestants & allergy medications, cold medications, diet pills, methylphenidate, asthma inhalers, meperidine, levodopa, dopamine, carbamazapine, certain antihypertensive medications, sympathomimetic amines (direct & indirect acting) including psuedoephedrine & ephidrine.

Table 2. Contraindicated Foods

cheese, L-tyrosine, liver, broad beans, dry sausage, beer & ale, chocolate, sauerkraut, ripe avocado yeast extracts, caffeine, raspberry jam, certain nuts, dried fruit, banana peel, soy bean products, vermouth, cognac, sherry, chianti, smoked meat, poultry & fish, protein dietary supplements, meat extracts & tenderizers

Thanks for posting this, I should have been more specific in my description. While both Selegiline and Moclobemide require dietary restrictions to prevent the risk of hypertension, hypothermia, extreme blood pressure or other assorted risks, Selegiline (L-deprenyl) is a MAO-B inhibitor specifically. MAO-B inhibitors are not active on the serotonin subset of receptors or on serotonin itself, meaning that the chance for increased risk of serotonin syndrome is not significant, however it should be noted that the dopamine and norepinephrine effects (amphetamine effects) of MDMA will be increased, thus it is important to be careful when considering dosing. Moclobemide and other MAO-A inhibitors will greatly increase the risks of SS.
Title: Re: Why can't I trip ?
Post by: microRNA on October 31, 2012, 08:55 pm
thank for clarifying, i actually figured it was selective - i just was too busy removing the spam threads to do the required research because i couldnt remember which one was responsible for which monoamines, and didnt want people to do something potentially dangerous just because another drug was also an maoi
Title: Re: Why can't I trip ?
Post by: Ben on November 01, 2012, 02:05 am
The interactions of MAO inhibitors are so great it would probably be more concise to list substance that do no have any interaction, both drugs and foodstuffs.

Then again, the severity of the interaction should also be mentioned - i imagine there are that many people that will give up their morning coffee once started on MAOI, despite that being listed as an adverse combination.
Title: Re: Why can't I trip ?
Post by: Virmo on November 01, 2012, 02:14 am
Ah, almost same problem: http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?topic=64155.0

Maoi significantly increases psychedelics though. Dangerous with mdma/amph etc.

Stupid psychiatric drugs...
Title: Re: Why can't I trip ?
Post by: addysfromscript on November 01, 2012, 02:43 am
Thanks for the post! I thought I had a really high tolerance for psychs but it turns out i'm just on an SSRI. Too bad I need these things.

Is taking a larger dose to compensate generally not a good idea? What effects can it have?
Title: Re: Why can't I trip ?
Post by: Virmo on November 01, 2012, 03:20 am
Please read: http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?topic=64312.0

I'm currently gathering information about meds and drugs. (And helping myself get off this fucking shit meds).


It depends on what kinds of meds you take and what kinds of drugs. For instance, if you take an ssri, then you will need A LOT more magic mushrooms to get a trip. And it will be a lot less pleasant trip. Alcohol can make you drunk faster or a lot slower, or make you do crazy shit. In my experience I started smoking a lot more weed in order to get a bit stoned.
Psychedelics you'll need a higher dose of and it will be different. Unless you're on maoi's (depending which one), then it could also intensify it A LOT.
I didn;t feel a thing from one or two beers anymore so that became a lot more, same for weed. Having a higher tolerance is really not a good thing because you'll need more and therefore do more damage to your body, PLUS that the interaction alone causes more stress on your body, for instance, your liver. That depends on how it's metabolized (liver or kidney etc.).

Basically its best not to take any drugs while on medication. But I'm a psychonaut and want to explore my mind, body, sometimes boost cognitive abilities or chill out. So I can not really not take drugs just because I'm on meds. I;m almost starting to believe I'd rather be a junky who's high most of the time than being a depressed slave on meds that don;t really work and are extremely hard to withdraw from. Plus I'm not sure I'd like to sponsor more, the pharmaceutical companies or the drugdealers. Actually they both deal in drugs and both are against the drugs of the other.

Look up for interactions of what you take and want to take. Perhaps PM me and if you did it how it was. This way I can do research about interactions.

"Is taking a larger dose to compensate generally not a good idea? What effects can it have?"
No it is not a good idea. It's not very healthy. But neither meds or drugs are healthy. Some are also not unhealthy though and can save lives.

It can diminish or increase the effect, of the drug and/or of your ssri.
It always gets your ssri levels in your blood out of "balance", which might be good or bad. It all depends on so many things...
Title: Re: Why can't I trip ?
Post by: go4green on November 01, 2012, 05:51 am
Thank you all. This was a huge eye-opener for me. I'm sure it is the same for others on medications.

really appreciated  :)
Title: Re: Why can't I trip ?
Post by: Ben on November 02, 2012, 03:25 am
Thanks for the post! I thought I had a really high tolerance for psychs but it turns out i'm just on an SSRI. Too bad I need these things.

Is taking a larger dose to compensate generally not a good idea? What effects can it have?

In general, it is not. SSRI's block the main function of the drug regardles, and taking larger doses to compensate for that would
 mostly result in more severe side effects without benefiting the desired efffect.
Title: Re: Why can't I trip ?
Post by: addysfromscript on November 02, 2012, 03:44 am
That makes sense. A normal dose still works for me, just not so powerful so I'll stick with that. I could take a lower dose of my zoloft for a few days before as well.
Title: Re: Why can't I trip ?
Post by: Virmo on November 02, 2012, 08:55 pm
Thanks again!

I'd appreciate if anyone can tell me whether antidepressants can also mask the effects of:
-Alcohol
-weed
-opioid

They won't mask the effecst of any of them, but there is still a danger of getting VERY drunk on antidepressants. Alcohol increasing the bioavilability of pretty much every drug (I think it lowers the density of fluid allowing drugs to move through blood and the body more quickly). So don't get wasted all the time on anti-depressants it isn't good for you.


I disagree. They do mask certain effects/take the magic off.
I could drink a whole bottle of whiskey in one day while on ssri and tca. Otherwise 2-3 shots would make me drunk.
And I have to smoke 5 times the amount to get the same effect.

Wether or not it increases or decreases effects depends on which meds and on you're physical body, how it works.