Silk Road forums
Discussion => Drug safety => Topic started by: P2P on June 22, 2013, 10:42 pm
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I am aware of methods to make sassafras tea, and have just read (emphasis on "just read," from a non-scientific source) that one cup can contain as much as 200mg of safrole. I would assume this means that safrole is extracted during the bark steeping process, or so the source implied. The solvent is water, if I haven't already mentioned that. However, I cannot trust a non-scientific source. I need data backed up by experimentation. I have read from other sources that safrole is insoluble in water, but I do not know if this means at room temperature, or all around. During the steeping process for making sassafras tea, the water is obviously heated, sometimes to boiling, in order to bring out the sassafras alkaloids to create a dark red beverage that looks absolutely delicious. However, I do not know for sure if this process brings out the safrole into the water medium. I only know for sure that steam distillation is obviously cornerstone for safrole purification, and it is well-documented that safrole is volatile in the presence of steam. I do not know if, however, safrole can be soluble in water at increased temperatures. Maybe I am missing something but steam is just water particles at a high temperature. So is a boiling solution of water; there's just stronger intermolecular forces present.
If an experienced chemist could weigh in that would be excellent.
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While extraction is not my area of expertise, I just wanted to tell you that if you want to make the experience more MDMA like you need to inhibit the enzyme CYP2A6 with something like cinnamon bark oil. Normally safrole is inactivated by this enzyme as it converts it to the inactive 1-hydroxysafrole.
This will allow you to experience more euphoric and empathogenic effects from it instead of just mild stimulation.
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Boiling sassafras bark, much like steam distillation does in fact release sassafras essential oil which contains safrole into the water solution. The essential oil is aprox 80% safrole. Essential oil is insoluble in water at all temperatures and would appear to float on the surface of the concoction. Some things to keep in mind, most of the essential oil would be released into the atmosphere if open boiling, the steam would carry it away. If you want to concentrate the safrole it is better to grind and steep the product in hot water. Freshly ground bark would be best. Quantity is hard to determine as the amount of sassafras root bark and boiling / steep time would vary the amount of sassafras essential oil. Keep in mind safrole is also very volatile and evaporates from ground bark and warm liquids readily.
In steam distillation trials, I have claimed as little as 100ml and up to 300ml of sassafras essential oil from a 5 pounds of fresh bark. The process and purification is time consuming, although much safer then trying to obtain sassafras oil itself.
It is not recommended to ingest sassafras oil, safrole itself is consider a carcinogen, although lab reports on this are sketchy and not well performed.
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I was under the assumption that the studies which suggested carcinogenic effects has severe methodological flaws. The dose administered to the rats was massive, much more than anyone could ever feasibly ingest. That being said, one should still be careful.
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I was under the assumption that the studies which suggested carcinogenic effects has severe methodological flaws. The dose administered to the rats was massive, much more than anyone could ever feasibly ingest. That being said, one should still be careful.
Agreed, like I said, the lab methods where flawed. Safrole itself does not produce any noticeable effects when ingested therefore the risk of a potential carcinogen certainly outweighs ingesting any amount.
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While that is true that the risks outweigh the benefits I would have to disagree with you on safrole producing no effects when ingested. With the proper enzyme inhibitors to prevent the conversion of safrole to the inactive 1-hydroxysaffrole many have reported psychoactive effects. Ever heard of oilahuasca
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While that is true that the risks outweigh the benefits I would have to disagree with you on safrole producing no effects when ingested. With the proper enzyme inhibitors to prevent the conversion of safrole to the inactive 1-hydroxysaffrole many have reported psychoactive effects. Ever heard of oilahuasca
I have not and now my curiosity has been stirred. I will check it out +1 sir!
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I have a thread on it in the newbie forum.
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If you want to concentrate the safrole it is better to grind and steep the product in hot water. Freshly ground bark would be best. Quantity is hard to determine as the amount of sassafras root bark and boiling / steep time would vary the amount of sassafras essential oil. Keep in mind safrole is also very volatile and evaporates from ground bark and warm liquids readily.
So are you saying simply having "hot" water instead of boiling water would allow for the sassafras oil to move out of the bark without evaporating with steam? This part of your post is not 100% clear. You also said later that you steam distill. So have you tried steeping the bark in hot water and yielded safrole-containing sassafras essential oil (in the water medium)? Or have you just done steam distillation?
In steam distillation trials, I have claimed as little as 100ml and up to 300ml of sassafras essential oil from a pound of fresh bark. The process and purification is time consuming, although much safer then trying to obtain sassafras oil itself.
It is not recommended to ingest sassafras oil, safrole itself is consider a carcinogen, although lab reports on this are sketchy and not well performed.
Maybe you didn't know this, but those yields are absolutely excellent from just a pound of bark.
Excellent answer, thank you. But I need clarification on what you said earlier. Basically how I am thinking about this is a crude method to get a lot of bark extracted at once, i.e. a few pounds of bark in a stainless steel pot with 2-3 gals of water, heat until "hot," and then agitate with stirring. Would this be a viable method to effectively extract sassafras essential oil (safrole-containing) from root bark? Or are there significant differences in yield when compared with steam distillation? And are you absolutely sure that safrole-containing essential oil is extracted? Have you confirmed this with a vac distilation?
Also, when doing the steam distillation of the root bark, I'm assuming you pull a vac then as well? Otherwise I can't imagine the safrole coming over.
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So are you saying simply having "hot" water instead of boiling water would allow for the sassafras oil to move out of the bark without evaporating with steam? This part of your post is not 100% clear. You also said later that you steam distill. So have you tried steeping the bark in hot water and yielded safrole-containing sassafras essential oil (in the water medium)? Or have you just done steam distillation?
Yes, water at near boiling temperature will extract the essential oil form the root bark. I would suggest experimenting with both methods, boiling and steeping and judge which method is the most effective. Yield will of course be below that of steam distillation. My evidence in anecdotal as I would often see essential oils leach from ground root bark when adding the root back to the hot water in the steam distiller.
Excellent answer, thank you. But I need clarification on what you said earlier. Basically how I am thinking about this is a crude method to get a lot of bark extracted at once, i.e. a few pounds of bark in a stainless steel pot with 2-3 gals of water, heat until "hot," and then agitate with stirring. Would this be a viable method to effectively extract sassafras essential oil (safrole-containing) from root bark? Or are there significant differences in yield when compared with steam distillation? And are you absolutely sure that safrole-containing essential oil is extracted? Have you confirmed this with a vac distilation?
Also, when doing the steam distillation of the root bark, I'm assuming you pull a vac then as well? Otherwise I can't imagine the safrole coming over.
If a tea or tincture is what you are after than boiling is fine, if you are after the essential oil than steam distillation is the method you are after. Although to be completely honest, there are easier, less expensive methods of obtaining safrole.
A vacuum is not needed for the steam distillation. Remember, it is the essential oil containing safrole that is being extracted. The oil is volatile and leaves the root bark with the steam to condense later in a water/essential oil mix. The oil is then easily extracted using a sep funnel. IIRC the oil is denser than water and should sink to the bottom of the funnel.
I can confirm that the extracted oil does contain safrole which can be extracted by using vacuum distillation.
I also fixed an error in my previous post, the quantity of root bark that would yield 100 to 300 ml was 5pds not 1. Safrol concentration seemed lower in vac distillation using freshly extracted essential oil (typically 50% to 70%). I attribute this to a quantity of water finely emulsified in the oil. I also noticed the essential oil to be pail in comparison to e store purchased essential oil.
I hope that helps - Let me know if I can be of further assistance.