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Discussion => Drug safety => Topic started by: Fbu on March 08, 2012, 01:05 am

Title: Preloading for mdma
Post by: Fbu on March 08, 2012, 01:05 am
Can anyone explain this more than just taking 5htp every night five nights before I roll?



Title: Re: Preloading for mdma
Post by: jollygiant on March 08, 2012, 01:18 am
5-htp combined with vitamin b6 it can produce serotonin. I believe Vitamin C, Zinc and Magnesium are also important, those are in my normal stack though.

5-htp alone, won't do much unless something in your diet is supplementing those other vitamins.
Title: Re: Preloading for mdma
Post by: wowzers on March 08, 2012, 02:30 am
In my experience, preloading with 5-HTP actually attenuates the effects of the MDMA. I noticed this last year on a couple of occasions when I had an extremely muted response from reasonably high doses (180mg). Reading around on bluelight etc seems to bear this out. More people seem to think it dampens the effects rather than boosting them.

It's extremely effective in combating the post-comedown blues though, take every 6 hour for 2-3 days after the MDMA,

I've found that preloading with 4g piracetam every day for 2 weeks prior to dosing seriously improves the experience, I have no idea why but it seems to restore that 'first time' magic. Piracetam is dirt cheap and stupidly non toxic so it's definitely worth a try.
Title: Re: Preloading for mdma
Post by: l1llykins on March 08, 2012, 06:58 am
For the day of, I'll take:

vitamin a, c, e (extra antioxidants)
calcium magnesium chelate (helps prevent jaw clenching)
multivitamin (always a good idea)

I'll also take 5htp 2 hours before dropping and then 6 hours after. Doing it this way strengthened my roll but it's a gamble since some say it can mute the experience.

I haven't tried Piractem, will have to look that one up!
Title: Re: Preloading for mdma
Post by: tordemon on March 08, 2012, 07:58 pm
For the day of, I'll take:

vitamin a, c, e (extra antioxidants)
calcium magnesium chelate (helps prevent jaw clenching)
multivitamin (always a good idea)

I'll also take 5htp 2 hours before dropping and then 6 hours after. Doing it this way strengthened my roll but it's a gamble since some say it can mute the experience.

I haven't tried Piractem, will have to look that one up!

I was pretty sure 5-HTP before rolling was potentially neurotoxic. I thought it was good for pre-loading over 12 hours prior and for preventing post-roll depression, but that taking them too close together had great potential for serotonin syndrome.
Title: Re: Preloading for mdma
Post by: l1llykins on March 08, 2012, 08:54 pm
For the day of, I'll take:

vitamin a, c, e (extra antioxidants)
calcium magnesium chelate (helps prevent jaw clenching)
multivitamin (always a good idea)

I'll also take 5htp 2 hours before dropping and then 6 hours after. Doing it this way strengthened my roll but it's a gamble since some say it can mute the experience.

I haven't tried Piractem, will have to look that one up!

I was pretty sure 5-HTP before rolling was potentially neurotoxic. I thought it was good for pre-loading over 12 hours prior and for preventing post-roll depression, but that taking them too close together had great potential for serotonin syndrome.

That's probably true for high doses. I only take about 50-100mg. I should have specified, my bad.
Title: Re: Preloading for mdma
Post by: tordemon on March 09, 2012, 01:28 am
That's probably true for high doses. I only take about 50-100mg. I should have specified, my bad.
It's all good. I took a quick look around, but I couldn't find anything in particular that would make my statements true. I think the basic concern is that both of them essentially cause the release of more serotonin, so you might get too much serotonin, but I'd think you'd need an MAOI in the mix somewhere for it to really be a problem. Anybody got some more insight on that issue?
Title: Re: Preloading for mdma
Post by: dr octagon on March 09, 2012, 02:23 am
If you haven't been rolling in the weeks before and don't have any serotonin issues,  you shouldn't bother taking 5-HTP before a roll at all.

The best advice anyone can give you with the limited research out there is to be well slept, have a healthy diet and be in a good mood before you drop.

There are a lot of people (myself included) that believe (anecdotally) that 5-HTP consumed before a roll if anything dulls the experience, or does nothing. 

The best time to take 5-HTP is for the 3 - 5 days after your big night.  It is not considered by some  to be a good idea to take it regularly as a supplement due to the potential for down regulation of your serotonin production. There is also little known about any long term health issues from using 5-HTP.

Title: Re: Preloading for mdma
Post by: poolsclosed on March 09, 2012, 02:29 pm
I just posted in another thread about preparing for rolling, so I'll just copy-paste it. I'd also like to add that when I've preloaded with 200mg of 5-htp the night before or the morning before a rolling session I never experienced serotonin syndrome, but maybe I'm just a lucky person. Anyway, the post (sans a bit of chatter about harm reduction) is as follows:

Taken from taimapedia's MDMA article: http://taimapedia.org/index.php?title=Mdma#preloading

Quote
Basic List of Supplements

5-HTP – precursor to serotonin

Vitamin B6 – required to create serotonin & other neurotransmitters, also helps absorb magnesium

Magnesium – helps prevent jaw clenching, also minimizes muscle cramping

L-Tryptophan – precursor to 5-HTP, not as effective but still useful

L-Glutamine – used to produce neurotransmitters and for energy in the nervous system

L-Tyrosine – precursor to dopamine, epinephrine, and nor-epinephrine

L-Dopa – precursor to dopamine (better than L-Tyrosine)

GABA - Promotes Relaxation, Eases sleep. It Inhibits over-stimulation caused by excessive neurotransmitter release. Doesn't pass the blood-brain barrier so it's primarily a body effect.

Alpha Lipoic Acid – a water soluble and fat soluble antioxidant

Vitamin C – a water soluble antioxidant

Vitamin E - a fat soluble antioxidant

Green Tea Extract – another commonly available antioxidant

Melatonin - a hormone that regulates sleep cycles and promotes REM sleep. it is sold as a vitamin supplement at most stores and is helpful in easing back into sleep. Also acts as an antioxidant.

Personally I take 5-HTP regularly as a mood booster, and increase the dose during my preloading/postloading time. I also take a complex multivitamin with some of the amino acids mentioned. I have a hard time finding L-Dopa, but L-Tyrosine isn't too hard to find and it's arguably very important. I also take a pill called Z-BEC (which is zinc and vitamins B, E, C) before and after rolling for the antioxidant effects. I also chew gum that has vitamin B6 in it, since it helps with the jawing and it has B6 :) And finally, the melatonin really is a good idea for going to sleep after any substance.

Don't take my habits as absolute science... I've just been doing what works for me, and sometimes I hear that you're not supposed to take 5-htp the day of your roll, or not at all during preloading, yada yada. I take it for my mood and it seems to be more effective than not taking it at all, so there we go.

Oh yeah and the tums thing is legit too :) have fun!