Silk Road forums
Discussion => Philosophy, Economics and Justice => Topic started by: Xe on March 31, 2013, 03:24 pm
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I have spotted this book reading club and i'd like to introduce my discovery to the sr.
This little book is very tough on applied psychology and full of insights about the last taboo.
Do you think bitcoins or ripples have something to do with the proposed model or can it be adjusted?
http://3fnhfsfc2bpzdste.onion/files/MysteryMoney02Lietaer.7z
What can a fish know about the nature of water? It can't apprehend it because it swims in it, lives in it.
It has to jump out of it in order to gain a perspective. So it is for us with money. Money is not a thing;
it is an agreement within a community to use something as a medium of exchange.
An incredible variety of objects or conventions have been used as money by different societies.
But in all cases, just about everybody in each society takes completely for granted their own money system.
It's something inherited, and its use goes on unquestioned. This is still the case today, even for the vast majority
of economists and financial experts.
In other words, money tends to be an unconscious agreement. We swim in it. This is why we need
to search for answers about the origin of the emotions around money in the collective unconscious of a society.
The work of Carl Gustav Jung and his followers in Archetypal Psychology provides us with a substantial
and established conceptual framework with which to examine the collective unconscious.
Using this tool, we will discover that money systems are an important reflection of a society’s
perception about the material world, and the feminine in particular.
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link asks to load an app which I refuse. post more info in the thread as I am interested in your writing
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link asks to load an app which I refuse. post more info in the thread as I am interested in your writing
The app is your browser's dl manager, so it's safe. Otherwise search the clearnet for keywords "mystery money lietaer"
In short. The current central bank monetary system is governed by a masculine archetype.
And there has to be an another money system in place which would reflect feminine energy.
At the same time, it's not one over another, it's complimentary and integrative.
Such cases did exist in the past in some local communities but
the knowledge has been forgotten or suppressed.
This book will distinguish between two categories of currencies:
what oriental philosophy would call “Yin” and “Yang” type currencies.
The Yang currencies are by far the most familiar to us today. They are currencies
that are used simultaneously as a means of payment and as a store of value.
In contrast, in the few cases where the feminine has been honored in an “advanced” civilization,
two complementary monetary systems have appeared, and one of these currencies invariably had
(what appears to us as) an unusual feature that actively discouraged the accumulation of wealth
in the form of that currency. In short, this latter currency operated as a pure means of payment
and exchange, and was not used as a store of value. This had as result that this medium of exchange
would circulate freely in all levels in society, and always be available even to the lowest economic classes.
In turn, this enabled them to engage in transactions that significantly improved their standard of living.
It is important to understand that people who would predominantly use these currencies could and would still save,
but in the form of investments in productive assets - but not in the form of accumulating this type of money.
Even more importantly for us today, a pattern of long-term vision in investments became the norm rather than the exception..
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Yeah, iLegal, I'm not opening that link!
masculine archetype [...] feminine energy
Alright, let's sticky this thread. ;)
The people who come up with that ^ and all the "money is a valueless agreement" "NO! money has inherent value" bullshit are just people who failed at investing. If any of their information was useful they'd be making real money not writing books and forum posts and blogs about how "the value of fiat money is based intrinsically on faith..."
lelmeriodici
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Yeah, iLegal, I'm not opening that link!
masculine archetype [...] feminine energy
Alright, let's sticky this thread. ;)
The people who come up with that ^ and all the "money is a valueless agreement" "NO! money has inherent value" bullshit are just people who failed at investing. If any of their information was useful they'd be making real money not writing books and forum posts and blogs about how "the value of fiat money is based intrinsically on faith..."
lelmeriodici
^^^ "Money has inherent value"???
And your argument is based on the premise that those who write analytical literature on the factitious commodity of money aren't making any money so they're naturally wrong....
Please enlighten the readers by telling us how money is intrinsically valuable and what determines the extent to which it possess purchasing power. Let us why fiat currencies traded on the FOREX seem to fluctuate in cost so "indiscriminately" and while you're at it, what your definition of "real money" is?
We mean no disrespect but it seems as though the poster has upset you by exploring something you've invested your own faith in from an unconventional perspective. Or your distaste is a result of the poser's attempt to have you open an application or you just 'woke up on the wrong side of the bed'. If you're indeed so fond of the market-economy then how can you, as an investor ignore the role of consumer confidence and speculation in the money-market? Understanding the origins of money is very useful for those of you that who wish to profit from acquiring and trading it.
Jung may not have contributed as much useful insight for the modern capitalist as another two historically famous men by the same first name (Marx & Polanyi) or a Smith or Milton; but very very few intellectuals and successful entrepreneurs (not just bloggers and forum posters) would argue against the idea that "the value of fiat money is based intrinsically on faith..."
The topic of the board is Philosophy, Economics and Law - What type of Philosophy would you like to read? What school of Economics would you have this board comply with?
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It's also questionable to suggest that those who fail in investing decide to make a change in career paths and become authors on mass psychology/economic theory... ;D
If you choose to respond please do so with respect; something to stimulate thought - Whether we're academics, investors or both we can all learn something from each other.
Otherwise, enjoy your freedom and anonymity and tell us to "go f*** yourselves!" :D
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link asks to load an app which I refuse. post more info in the thread as I am interested in your writing
The app is your browser's dl manager, so it's safe. Otherwise search the clearnet for keywords "mystery money lietaer"
In short. The current central bank monetary system is governed by a masculine archetype.
And there has to be an another money system in place which would reflect feminine energy.
At the same time, it's not one over another, it's complimentary and integrative.
Such cases did exist in the past in some local communities but
the knowledge has been forgotten or suppressed.
This book will distinguish between two categories of currencies:
what oriental philosophy would call “Yin” and “Yang” type currencies.
The Yang currencies are by far the most familiar to us today. They are currencies
that are used simultaneously as a means of payment and as a store of value.
In contrast, in the few cases where the feminine has been honored in an “advanced” civilization,
two complementary monetary systems have appeared, and one of these currencies invariably had
(what appears to us as) an unusual feature that actively discouraged the accumulation of wealth
in the form of that currency. In short, this latter currency operated as a pure means of payment
and exchange, and was not used as a store of value. This had as result that this medium of exchange
would circulate freely in all levels in society, and always be available even to the lowest economic classes.
In turn, this enabled them to engage in transactions that significantly improved their standard of living.
It is important to understand that people who would predominantly use these currencies could and would still save,
but in the form of investments in productive assets - but not in the form of accumulating this type of money.
Even more importantly for us today, a pattern of long-term vision in investments became the norm rather than the exception..
Defiantly something to think about. I don't really have anything to add except that I've had so many problems with my download manager. It's been well documented on a few forum posts :)
What historical societies have used the type of money you are talking about?
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AUS-SmartDrugs, thanks for the questions.
^^^ "Money has inherent value" ???
And your argument is based on the premise that those who write analytical literature on the factitious commodity of money aren't making any money so they're naturally wrong....
Please enlighten the readers by telling us how money is intrinsically valuable and what determines the extent to which it possess purchasing power. Let us why fiat currencies traded on the FOREX seem to fluctuate in cost so "indiscriminately" and while you're at it, what your definition of "real money" is?
We mean no disrespect but it seems as though the poster has upset you by exploring something you've invested your own faith in from an unconventional perspective. Or your distaste is a result of the poser's attempt to have you open an application or you just 'woke up on the wrong side of the bed'. If you're indeed so fond of the market-economy then how can you, as an investor ignore the role of consumer confidence and speculation in the money-market? Understanding the origins of money is very useful for those of you that who wish to profit from acquiring and trading it.
Jung may not have contributed as much useful insight for the modern capitalist as another two historically famous men by the same first name (Marx & Polanyi) or a Smith or Milton; but very very few intellectuals and successful entrepreneurs (not just bloggers and forum posters) would argue against the idea that "the value of fiat money is based intrinsically on faith..."
The topic of the board is Philosophy, Economics and Law - What type of Philosophy would you like to read? What school of Economics would you have this board comply with?
1. I'm never very happy when I am blindly linked to a download, especially when the file is a potentially malicious 7-Zip and is referenced over Tor. So that may have upset me. :P
2. I'm not going to enlighten anyone about how money is or isn't intrinsically valuable or not. That's what I was ranting against. Every investing/trading/financial book I read seems to have a section where the author gives their opinion on the actual value of money. The "time value of money" and the "marginal theory of money" and the "subjective theory of money" and David Ricardo's theory and the Cambridge capital controversy and neo-Marxist theories and Ayn Rand's fucking 900 page bore about "Objectivism".... The point is, I HATE economic theory and think it is all academic.
My post was meant to make that clear and it was relevant because the OP was posting about some EXTREMELY unconventional theory involving Ying and Yang and male and female energy. He says "we need to search for answers about the origin of the emotions around money." If you think that is going to make me money or make me happy, then please, enlighten me. I think it's more academic bullshit, I was just trying to be diplomatic in my original post and not use the word "bullshit." ;D
3. I like secular humanism.
4. Whatever economics make less people kill each other and more people clothed and fed – I'm all for.
It's also questionable to suggest that those who fail in investing decide to make a change in career paths and become authors on mass psychology/economic theory... ;D
Those who can't do, teach. j/k and I was being facetious....mostly. ;)
If you choose to respond please do so with respect; something to stimulate thought - Whether we're academics, investors or both we can all learn something from each other.
Otherwise, enjoy your freedom and anonymity and tell us to "go f*** yourselves!" :D
I like that. +1
lelmeriodici
ps go fuck yourself ;)
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1. Agreed 100%
2. Was given Rand's 694 page novel 'The Fountainhead' as a gift, it's collecting dust and your comment didn't inspire any further motivation :P
There's some real value in economic theory, if you never understood Marxism or Ricardo's work then you wouldn't even be able to comment on these things with any degree of intellect. You wouldn't understand left-wing/right-wing mentalities, you wouldn't have a clue about political institutions/actors or the effects of neoliberalism. It's just a little ironic that you're discrediting these 'academic' topics which you've already studied...
Ok, so maybe the Ying and Yang thing doesn't hold any real practicality for today's investor... We're with you on that. However, the 'academics' amongst us may find it thought provoking...
3/4. Good to hear that you're a man/woman of reason; do you think this whole school of thought would have gained such momentum in modern society without the student uprisings of the 60s, driven by the work of the scholars. Our apologies to the religionists, but if we didn't have the theorists then there would be no momentum behind the movement against conservative 'bullshit'. No mixed economy would mean less people clothed and fed, there's no doubt about that...
5. For good measure you can go fuck yourself too!
+1 for not being as stupid as you appeared in your first post! :P
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I was talking about the 1069 page (just checked) Atlas Shrugged. Whew-what a book. The Fountainhead–that's only 700 pages, a light and quick read! ;D Ayn Rand and friends all have legitimate theories and they have value if you're Ben Bernake, but the average investor (let alone member to a forum associated to a site that sells drugs :o ) has no use for such an ivory tower.
As to the popularity of humanism, I think the entire atmosphere of the 60s in America lent itself to such a view. JFK was president and times were good, people were making money, and generally had no need to put faith in a higher power. They saw that they are in control of their own destiny (including the Cuban Missile Crisis) and their views slowly shifted toward humanism. I also like to think that any intelligent being would end up with humanistic ideals own their own just by living a while. ;)
My apologies Xe, your thread is officially hijacked.
lelmeriodici
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Yes, During the 60s the atmosphere was certainly different in the US than in Europe.
Social movements throughout Europe were still ideologically open to the communist model while anti-USSR propaganda filled the television screens in the US.
Many Europeans still fantasied about 'Marx's utopia' but weren't satisfied with the "class divide" explanation anymore so they turned to new authors like Touraine. They were more (and still are) naturally inclined to push for revolutionary ideals while US were more (and still are) concerned with maintaining the liberties their constitution affords them.
To overly simplify, the Europeans are more progressive (humanist) while Americans are more traditional (conservative). We understand that this is an exaggeration but one look at the "moral > ethical" structure of American's Republican party in contrast with equivalents from across the Atlantic gives us a clear example.
There has been a shift toward humanism in the US; but it's stagnated by the religious-right. Mixing the virtues of personal liberty with judeo-christian faith has historically been a very effective marketing strategy for Republicans. It's a shame, because those individuals who believe in the evolution of human ethics (rather than 'family values') while holding free-market (or Libertarian) economic convictions are forced to elect a government which is far from humanist. (You could argue that the Tea Party is an exception, but find us an agnostic on the caucus and we will be very surprised).
'Born again' syndrome is far from dead in the US of A - and much like communism in practice, it's a disease which holds society back from adopting more humanistic ideals.
Anyway, back to dealing drugs like the dirty degenerate unenlightened people we are!
Sorry for pulling a 9/11 on the OP...
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What historical societies have used the type of money you are talking about?
The author deals with two cases: Egypt and a few centuries in Europe before discovering the gunpowder.
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"In short. The current central bank monetary system is governed by a masculine archetype.
And there has to be an another money system in place which would reflect feminine energy."
I need read no further. This is pseudoscience and your time would be better spent reading a real book.
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Having said that: I guess bitcoin would definitely be the "masculine" kind of currency as it is almost designed to encourage hoarding. (I use quotes as I am unsure how meaningful assigning gender is here )
How would the feminine kind work? A persishable item used as currency? Banknotes with an expiry date on them? Everyone gets paid their wage every month and anything not spent is deleted at the months end?
Its very difficult to imagine how a society could function.... People could still accumulate wealth but they would just have to constantly exchange old notes for new..... But hang on the notes would become increasingly less valuble as their expiry date approached.
Reminds me of a story by Robert Louis Stephenson about a magic bottle that granted wishes, but you always had to sell it for less than you paid for it. ( you did not want to die owning the bottle due to some infernal curse or whatever) But as the amount it was sold for decreased it became harder and harder to sell.... the unfortunate owners had to go to poorer and poorer countries to find less and less valuable currency. I forget how it ended; look it up. Be a more worthwhile use of your time than this.
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Please at least do a research on the author and
have a glance at the book first then decide if it's for you.
The thesis is based on the Jung's analytical psychology framework,
it's the most valuable piece of applied knowledge I've discovered in my life..
It seems that Freicoin, a bitcoin fork, embraces the proposed idea..