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Discussion => Philosophy, Economics and Justice => Topic started by: SealTeam6 on May 30, 2013, 08:09 pm

Title: Astrology
Post by: SealTeam6 on May 30, 2013, 08:09 pm
Is anyone here well versed in Astrology?
Title: Re: Astrology
Post by: Nyaruko on May 30, 2013, 10:54 pm
Is anyone here well versed in Astrology?

I know someone studying it at university, they annoy me a great deal.
Title: Re: Astrology
Post by: SealTeam6 on May 30, 2013, 10:57 pm
Is anyone here well versed in Astrology?

I know someone studying it at university, they annoy me a great deal.

lol.  I am beginning to think there is some merit in it!
Title: Re: Astrology
Post by: Nyaruko on May 30, 2013, 10:59 pm
Is anyone here well versed in Astrology?

I know someone studying it at university, they annoy me a great deal.

lol.  I am beginning to think there is some merit in it!

It's definitely interesting but the amount of detail they go into about small pointless things is annoying to me.
Title: Re: Astrology
Post by: SealTeam6 on May 30, 2013, 11:05 pm
Is anyone here well versed in Astrology?

I know someone studying it at university, they annoy me a great deal.

lol.  I am beginning to think there is some merit in it!

It's definitely interesting but the amount of detail they go into about small pointless things is annoying to me.

Detail is great, that's where you find God, in the details!
Title: Re: Astrology
Post by: touchthesky on May 31, 2013, 05:25 am
I study Astrotheology or Holy Science (no it's not about religion, in fact it shows how all religious texts are just representations of our solar system).

I've found it really, really enlightening. I feel like I understand things which were deemed "too complex" to understand
Title: Re: Astrology
Post by: SealTeam6 on May 31, 2013, 02:41 pm
I study Astrotheology or Holy Science (no it's not about religion, in fact it shows how all religious texts are just representations of our solar system).

I've found it really, really enlightening. I feel like I understand things which were deemed "too complex" to understand

I feel the same way as you, as far as being able to understand things that once seemed impossible to grasp.  I think you are right that it's not about religion.  My thought now is that religions shy away from astrology because astrology threatens established religions in that it takes the power from away from religions.  What I mean is that some people use horoscopes to live their daily lives, instead of relying on any religion to guide or control them!
Title: Re: Astrology
Post by: AlfalfaBillMurray on June 02, 2013, 09:52 am
astrology has no basis in fact.  go read the wikipedia article on astrology and it has a section of all the ways that astrology is in conflict with known facts.  every prediction that astrology has made has been falsified.  there is no proposed mechanism by which astrology is proposed to act.
Title: Re: Astrology
Post by: SealTeam6 on June 02, 2013, 01:31 pm
astrology has no basis in fact.  go read the wikipedia article on astrology and it has a section of all the ways that astrology is in conflict with known facts.  every prediction that astrology has made has been falsified.  there is no proposed mechanism by which astrology is proposed to act.

Wiki itself is not 100% reliable, seems a little silly to try and discredit a study with something that's not 100.
Title: Re: Astrology
Post by: TR0N on June 02, 2013, 06:49 pm
astrology has no basis in fact.  go read the wikipedia article on astrology and it has a section of all the ways that astrology is in conflict with known facts.  every prediction that astrology has made has been falsified.  there is no proposed mechanism by which astrology is proposed to act.

Alright everyone, go home. AlfalfaBillMurray has read Wikipedia and everyone else is wrong.

Lmao.

Really though, if you reach a little farther than Wikipedia, there is a TON of "facts" concerning Astrology, much of it to be found in the understandings of ancient civilizations and so on. When you take into account their very accurate knowledge of celestial bodies (without the use of telescopes .. or anything we know of), then what they believed about those celestial bodies must be taken with some merit as well. They were obviously privy to something we are not. This kind of information itself could be considered 'fact', but there is still more tangible measurements which can be made. For example, the now highly publicized (and wrongly defined) "2012 shift" is a very real and measurable thing that is happening to our planet and our solar system as we speak, and the "2012 shift" in an Astrological event.

I came across some information I thought resonates quite well. It says that; the idea with Astrology is to describe the movement of energies relative to each other. I'm no expert on the stuff, but for example, certain planets, stars, systems, etc. represent certain qualities, ideas or energies (for whatever reasons, determined long ago by methods unknown and carried on through tradition and myth). At any given time there is a unique celestial situation taking place. Planets and the energies they represent may be may be far away, or close together, and either coming together or moving farther apart as the cycles spin.

The idea of your "horoscope" simply represents a snapshot of our solar system at the moment you were born. The horoscope is supposed to be a reference point, to help you understand the things you came here to do as a human by studying the specific energies in place when you were born. "The way things were moving" at that time, is an indication of the direction you were trying to take in life. For the people who care to look into it a bit deeper, if you approach it from this broader esoteric sense, and not the daily horoscope section, I guarantee you will find correlations with your own life when you begin to familiarize yourself with the specifics of your star sign. There are also transition periods between two signs, called "cusps" which are not addressed by newspaper horoscopes or 21st century horoscopes at all.

Just to clarify, I think that Astrology is like any other ancient teaching which has survived to this day. What we have today is but a remnant and a scrap of the true scope of the information, but the keen will be able to peer between the lines and uncover deeper meaning in the teachings. Newspaper horoscopes are complete bollocks, because a 'real horoscope' is not that cut and dry. There is literally a different horoscope for every single day that has ever passed, and no two horoscopes are the same. If we multiply 30 days in the month by 100 (100 year lifespan of a human) there is approx. 3000 different horoscopes going on that month, which is why one summary for all doesn't work.

If you really want to put this to the test, go to a big department book store, go to the astrology section and find one of those giant astrology bibles. The book you are looking for has detailed write-ups for every single day of the year, and even better books will have date+year combinations. Find the detailed write-up for your exact date of birth, and see if it doesn't trip you the fuck out.
Title: Re: Astrology
Post by: SealTeam6 on June 02, 2013, 07:57 pm
Thanks Tron, I will hit the library soon and do some research!
Title: Re: Astrology
Post by: DrChong on June 09, 2013, 11:41 am
Total bullshit. You're wasting your time if you take it seriously (although if you're just interested in the concept itself go ahead). I find the idea of evil sea creatures interesting but I'm not a believer in them since there's no evidence for them.
Title: Re: Astrology
Post by: oldtoby on June 10, 2013, 12:35 am
If you want an eye opener, go speak to an astronomy prof about astrology for 10 minutes. The number of astronomical facts that astrology would need to take into account if it operated under its stated premises - but it doesn't because that would terribly complicate things - is astounding. It can't even bother to be self-consistent.
Title: Re: Astrology
Post by: SealTeam6 on June 10, 2013, 12:44 am
If you want an eye opener, go speak to an astronomy prof about astrology for 10 minutes. The number of astronomical facts that astrology would need to take into account if it operated under its stated premises - but it doesn't because that would terribly complicate things - is astounding. It can't even bother to be self-consistent.

I am not sure what you mean, but I will try and find a professor!
Title: Re: Astrology
Post by: joywind on June 10, 2013, 12:59 am
'astrology' means the practical application of astronomy to human use. our response to it must necessarily hinge on our understanding of what it means to be human, because those of us who have been educated in the 'values' of modern Western industrial culture, the traditional view of time is as difficult to grasp as is the unfoldment represented by the traditional symbolism of astrology.

astronomy interprets the meaning of the zodiac and the planets, just as alchemy interprets the meaning of the elements and the metals.

every soul has an astrological-alchemical symbol; this means that man will either squander his salvation or, by the grace of God, attain the meaning of earthly life. Don't be concerned about the origin of this symbol; you were hidden within all-possibility.
Title: Re: Astrology
Post by: SealTeam6 on June 10, 2013, 01:54 am
. Don't be concerned about the origin of this symbol; you were hidden within all-possibility.

What does this mean?
Title: Re: Astrology
Post by: soviet on June 10, 2013, 08:15 pm
Total bullshit. You're wasting your time if you take it seriously (although if you're just interested in the concept itself go ahead). I find the idea of evil sea creatures interesting but I'm not a believer in them since there's no evidence for them.

This
Title: Re: Astrology
Post by: SealTeam6 on June 10, 2013, 09:32 pm
Total bullshit. You're wasting your time if you take it seriously (although if you're just interested in the concept itself go ahead). I find the idea of evil sea creatures interesting but I'm not a believer in them since there's no evidence for them.

This

Everything is real my friend, the fact that we can dream it up, proves its existence in some form or another!
Title: Re: Astrology
Post by: soviet on June 10, 2013, 10:02 pm
Total bullshit. You're wasting your time if you take it seriously (although if you're just interested in the concept itself go ahead). I find the idea of evil sea creatures interesting but I'm not a believer in them since there's no evidence for them.

This

Everything is real my friend, the fact that we can dream it up, proves its existence in some form or another!

That is some absolutely infallible logic right there, bravo! Please excuse me while I go write a letter to Santa Claus.

No but seriously, reality is a beautiful thing. If you choose to squander your existence here on imaginary nonsense then go ahead; it is your right. But don't go around spreading pseudo-science and bullshit. That's just not cool.
Title: Re: Astrology
Post by: TNY on June 10, 2013, 10:51 pm
Im as qualified as the highest "recognized" astrologist, dead or alive.

Do you know why? I'll tell you what you want to hear and make it relevant to pretty much anyone else, like those con men do. If you really think that the movement, placements of planets and stars interfere with our personal lives, our relationships, let alone professional lives your off your nut!
Title: Re: Astrology
Post by: SealTeam6 on June 10, 2013, 10:54 pm
Total bullshit. You're wasting your time if you take it seriously (although if you're just interested in the concept itself go ahead). I find the idea of evil sea creatures interesting but I'm not a believer in them since there's no evidence for them.

This

Everything is real my friend, the fact that we can dream it up, proves its existence in some form or another!

That is some absolutely infallible logic right there, bravo! Please excuse me while I go write a letter to Santa Claus.

No but seriously, reality is a beautiful thing. If you choose to squander your existence here on imaginary nonsense then go ahead; it is your right. But don't go around spreading pseudo-science and bullshit. That's just not cool.

Reality itself is dependent on peoples imagination!
Title: Re: Astrology
Post by: SealTeam6 on June 10, 2013, 10:55 pm
Im as qualified as the highest "recognized" astrologist, dead or alive.

Do you know why? I'll tell you what you want to hear and make it relevant to pretty much anyone else, like those con men do. If you really think that the movement, placements of planets and stars interfere with our personal lives, our relationships, let alone professional lives your off your nut!

What if everyone else is a nut, and I am one of the few sane ones?
Title: Re: Astrology
Post by: touchthesky on June 11, 2013, 04:07 am
I also think that things like stars or planets effecting your day or life is bullshit.

I think astrotheology is more about astronomy now that I think about

In the days of the old all people would do is look at the stars and figure out things from there.

Egyptian Pyramids are a great source of and greatly inspired from whats happening in our solar system. If you watch a documentary on them, it explains the significance of the pyramids, their structure, their positioning etc. I think a lot of other ancient structures follow that rule as well.

I'm not so much a believer in star signs and that they dictate your life or that your life is pre-determined from the moment you're born either.

As with a lot of ancient teachings, there's  a LOT of hocus pocus and bullshit to go through. But at their core, I think astronomy is one of the most important studies along with physics and maths
Title: Re: Astrology
Post by: SealTeam6 on June 11, 2013, 11:35 am
I also think that things like stars or planets effecting your day or life is bullshit.

I think astrotheology is more about astronomy now that I think about

In the days of the old all people would do is look at the stars and figure out things from there.

Egyptian Pyramids are a great source of and greatly inspired from whats happening in our solar system. If you watch a documentary on them, it explains the significance of the pyramids, their structure, their positioning etc. I think a lot of other ancient structures follow that rule as well.

I'm not so much a believer in star signs and that they dictate your life or that your life is pre-determined from the moment you're born either.

As with a lot of ancient teachings, there's  a LOT of hocus pocus and bullshit to go through. But at their core, I think astronomy is one of the most important studies along with physics and maths

Think about this!  The moon effects entire oceans.  Are you a larger entity than the oceans?
Title: Re: Astrology
Post by: leaf on June 11, 2013, 10:09 pm
I've done a fair amount of personal study into western astrology and I've also dabbled in a teeny bit of vedic astrology.

I will say first off that there's a lot more to astrology than horoscopes and that it can only be validated from a point of view that also accepts mythology and some level of spirituality.

A bit of history: 
In the times that preceded the series conquers by Julius Caesar in Europe around 40-50 BC, astrology was used by the European laymen as a tool for predicting when certain farming activities had to take place such as planting, harvesting, etc. as well as other natural cycles such as female fertility and reproduction. It was after these populations were "urbanized" under the dictatorship rule of Caesar that astrology took a much more ego-centric spin where it began to be used towards personality and life prediction.

Astrology is essentially based on archetypes that give certain influences to planets and their relationship with other planets. When assessing a person, astrologers use a birth or natal chart that's drawn up using mathematical equations based in astronomy of where each planet was located at the time of birth based on the geographical location (longitude and latitude points) of the place of birth. From here the astrologer applies the cosmology of the system they practice in to draw information.

There is a trap where people begin to think of these archetypal influences as a predetermined and established outcome. However they are but influences that each have more or less influence at a given time, and we all possess a certain amount of free will that allows us to create our realities. There must be a balance between being aware of what sorts of energies are affecting us on a higher scale and recognizing where we have the power to change.

One interesting thing I have noticed by reading into different sorts of astrology over time is that although there are differences across the board, which some are major, but in most cases there are similarities or parallels and at times the information is the same. It is interesting to see how cultures that vary so greatly from each other still found the same or similar meaning when translating the stars and the cosmos in their own way.

Title: Re: Astrology
Post by: SealTeam6 on June 12, 2013, 10:32 pm
+1 leaf
Title: Re: Astrology
Post by: oldtoby on June 16, 2013, 05:53 am
Everything is real my friend, the fact that we can dream it up, proves its existence in some form or another!

"The ability to contemplate what is NOT real" is pretty much my definition of imagination.
Title: Re: Astrology
Post by: SealTeam6 on June 16, 2013, 05:55 am
Everything is real my friend, the fact that we can dream it up, proves its existence in some form or another!

"The ability to contemplate what is NOT real" is pretty much my definition of imagination.

but you can contemplate real things as well!
Title: Re: Astrology
Post by: oldtoby on June 16, 2013, 06:05 am
Not my definition of contemplation; imagination.

Do I imagine this computer before me? No, I do not (unless reality is imagined).

Can I imagine it growing legs and walking around the room? Sure.
Title: Re: Astrology
Post by: SealTeam6 on June 16, 2013, 06:09 am
Not my definition of contemplation; imagination.

Do I imagine this computer before me? No, I do not (unless reality is imagined).

Can I imagine it growing legs and walking around the room? Sure.



Ahhh but what if reality IS an imagination.  For example, what if it's Gods imagination, just an example!
Title: Re: Astrology
Post by: oldtoby on June 16, 2013, 06:14 am
Not my definition of contemplation; imagination.

Do I imagine this computer before me? No, I do not (unless reality is imagined).

Can I imagine it growing legs and walking around the room? Sure.

Ahhh but what if reality IS an imagination.  For example, what if it's Gods imagination, just an example!


If reality is God's imagining, then there are still correct/false answers to questions, based on what God has imagined.
Consider: for any correct answer to a given question, you can contemplate the correct/true answer *and* its opposite.
If, for example, there is no such thing as a flying pig (ie: God, in this example, does not imagine this to be), I can still imagine there are. If there are flying pigs (God imagines them to be so), I can imagine a world in which they do not exist.

Again: imagination is the ability to consider what is not real. If you press the definition of "real" to mean "existing in any state, even if only in your mind" then you've just made your point by stretching the definition to meaninglessness.
Title: Re: Astrology
Post by: SealTeam6 on June 16, 2013, 06:28 am
Not my definition of contemplation; imagination.

Do I imagine this computer before me? No, I do not (unless reality is imagined).

Can I imagine it growing legs and walking around the room? Sure.

Ahhh but what if reality IS an imagination.  For example, what if it's Gods imagination, just an example!


If reality is God's imagining, then there are still correct/false answers to questions, based on what God has imagined.
Consider: for any correct answer to a given question, you can contemplate the correct/true answer *and* its opposite.
If, for example, there is no such thing as a flying pig (ie: God, in this example, does not imagine this to be), I can still imagine there are. If there are flying pigs (God imagines them to be so), I can imagine a world in which they do not exist.

Again: imagination is the ability to consider what is not real. If you press the definition of "real" to mean "existing in any state, even if only in your mind" then you've just made your point by stretching the definition to meaninglessness.

Hmm, There is another belief that I picked up somewhere, I can't remember where right now, but it goes like this.  When we are born into this world we are basically born into a collective dream shared by everyone else in this world.  So from the beginning we are "domesticated" into believing all of the shared dreams of everyone else.  This is how we learn and define our "reality" and share the dreams of everyone else.  Things are defined as real because everyone else has domesticated one into believing in "real" or "fake" things.  So that would kinda mean  that reality is just the majority dream, and things that are deemed "fake" are the minority.  What do you think, I hope I explained it sensibly enough.   
Title: Re: Astrology
Post by: oldtoby on June 16, 2013, 06:38 am
Hmm. There's the Australian aboriginal concept of "The Dreaming" - I don't know a lot about it, but that sounds like the gist.

It's also a little reminiscent of a few strains of Hinduism, except there the idea being that we are gods having forgotten we are gods (which I quite like).

The point remains, though, that if there are *any* questions about which there can only be one answer (T/F, up/down, black/white), that unless you put everything into some kind of superposed Schrodinger state of uncertainty, you can imagine a state that does not conform to "reality" as perceived by you, God, the collective dream, or whatever you want to call it. We have terms for fiction and nonfiction for a reason.
Title: Re: Astrology
Post by: SealTeam6 on June 16, 2013, 06:43 am
Hmm. There's the Australian aboriginal concept of "The Dreaming" - I don't know a lot about it, but that sounds like the gist.

It's also a little reminiscent of a few strains of Hinduism, except there the idea being that we are gods having forgotten we are gods (which I quite like).

The point remains, though, that if there are *any* questions about which there can only be one answer (T/F, up/down, black/white), that unless you put everything into some kind of superposed Schrodinger state of uncertainty, you can imagine a state that does not conform to "reality" as perceived by you, God, the collective dream, or whatever you want to call it. We have terms for fiction and nonfiction for a reason.

There are so many belief systems out there and I feel like they are all pieces to a puzzle, a puzzle that I think I am really starting to put together.

That Hinduism concept is one that I like as well.  I think it is as simple as gaining knowledge and rising to a higher state of mind.
Title: Re: Astrology
Post by: Hungry ghost on June 16, 2013, 07:30 am
I have found this website to be very useful in sorting the wheat from the chaff:

http://skeptoid.com/episode.php?id=4173

You mention the moons effect on the ocean; are you suggesting that astrology works by gravity?
Title: Re: Astrology
Post by: SealTeam6 on June 16, 2013, 06:12 pm
I have found this website to be very useful in sorting the wheat from the chaff:

http://skeptoid.com/episode.php?id=4173

You mention the moons effect on the ocean; are you suggesting that astrology works by gravity?

No I was not suggesting it's gravity.  What I mean is that gravity is a force that has an effect on our entire planet so why can't there be a force (maybe something yet to be discovered) that has an effect on people!
Title: Re: Astrology
Post by: soviet on June 16, 2013, 08:57 pm
I have found this website to be very useful in sorting the wheat from the chaff:

http://skeptoid.com/episode.php?id=4173

You mention the moons effect on the ocean; are you suggesting that astrology works by gravity?

No I was not suggesting it's gravity.  What I mean is that gravity is a force that has an effect on our entire planet so why can't there be a force (maybe something yet to be discovered) that has an effect on people!

There certainly could be, but until you provide proper scientific evidence for such a force it would be idiotic to believe in it.
Title: Re: Astrology
Post by: SealTeam6 on June 16, 2013, 09:24 pm
I have found this website to be very useful in sorting the wheat from the chaff:

http://skeptoid.com/episode.php?id=4173

You mention the moons effect on the ocean; are you suggesting that astrology works by gravity?

No I was not suggesting it's gravity.  What I mean is that gravity is a force that has an effect on our entire planet so why can't there be a force (maybe something yet to be discovered) that has an effect on people!

There certainly could be, but until you provide proper scientific evidence for such a force it would be idiotic to believe in it.

This is exactly why the Soviet Union collapsed!
Title: Re: Astrology
Post by: SealTeam6 on June 16, 2013, 11:25 pm
I've done a fair amount of personal study into western astrology and I've also dabbled in a teeny bit of vedic astrology.

I will say first off that there's a lot more to astrology than horoscopes and that it can only be validated from a point of view that also accepts mythology and some level of spirituality.

A bit of history: 
In the times that preceded the series conquers by Julius Caesar in Europe around 40-50 BC, astrology was used by the European laymen as a tool for predicting when certain farming activities had to take place such as planting, harvesting, etc. as well as other natural cycles such as female fertility and reproduction. It was after these populations were "urbanized" under the dictatorship rule of Caesar that astrology took a much more ego-centric spin where it began to be used towards personality and life prediction.

Astrology is essentially based on archetypes that give certain influences to planets and their relationship with other planets. When assessing a person, astrologers use a birth or natal chart that's drawn up using mathematical equations based in astronomy of where each planet was located at the time of birth based on the geographical location (longitude and latitude points) of the place of birth. From here the astrologer applies the cosmology of the system they practice in to draw information.

There is a trap where people begin to think of these archetypal influences as a predetermined and established outcome. However they are but influences that each have more or less influence at a given time, and we all possess a certain amount of free will that allows us to create our realities. There must be a balance between being aware of what sorts of energies are affecting us on a higher scale and recognizing where we have the power to change.

One interesting thing I have noticed by reading into different sorts of astrology over time is that although there are differences across the board, which some are major, but in most cases there are similarities or parallels and at times the information is the same. It is interesting to see how cultures that vary so greatly from each other still found the same or similar meaning when translating the stars and the cosmos in their own way.



Very well said!

I have found this website to be very useful in sorting the wheat from the chaff:

http://skeptoid.com/episode.php?id=4173

You mention the moons effect on the ocean; are you suggesting that astrology works by gravity?

Going off what leaf said about influences as well as responding to this question: I believe that these influences of energy that affect us on a day to day basis function much like the weather does. When it's cold and rainy and miserble outside, we tend to feel less invigorated with energy. Not many I know like to do a whole lot on days like this and people tend to be bitter. On the other hand, comfortable weather tends to make people feel happier, more upbeat, more active etc.

I believe that astrology or the effort to understand the influence of the heavenly bodies, not quite like weather, but similar in a way, is based on gravity. You will hear of astrologers talking about retrogrades. This is based on the movement of planets away from and towards us as they move in the cycle around the sun. I don't know a whole lot about astrology but I think this is the basis of how influences upon earth is determined. These planets are having a gravitational affect upon the forces of earth. Gravity is a wholly complicated force that is still the least understood. It is more than just keeping things "stuck" to each other or in orbit with one another.

These retrogrades have a gravitational affect on our planet which affects the chain of forces acting upon us. These influences make us feel certain ways: up, down, passionate, creative, complacent, energized. The manifestations of the complexity of the astronomical bodies as they move in cycles appear in many ways in our lives. It does not mean that you can predict whether you'll win the lottery based on the movement of the stars and planets. I believe it does mean that you can use these influences in the way that they are understand for various purposes. Some influences are better for creating. Some influences are better for self-reflection, etc.

The manifestations of these influences are understood based on the history of their occurence, discovered by minds who were very in tune with their happening. It was a combination of a firm grasp of astronomy, i.e. the predicatable movements of the stars, and observations of what they and others were feeling and what was happening in their lives under a particular sky (during a retrograde, during a full moon etc.). Astrologers today, good ones, are able to interpret these influences because of astronomy, history, intuition, and observation.

Astrology is a way to relate a person (based on the time and geographical location of their birth) to the flux cyclical movement of the heavenly bodies. From the moment you were born, you have a very specific relationship to the moon, planets, and stars that is unique from everyone else's relationship. Signs like scorpio and capricorn etc. are ways to partition this relationship into 12 sections. These influences do not inhibit our free will, they do not at all fortell what specific fortunes will come our way. This is where horoscopes are wrong, imo.

I see astrology as simply the interpretation of how the effect of gravity from each heavenly body effects the chain of forces acting upon each individual. The reason people yell BS I think is either because people think astrology is nothing more than those BS horoscopes you may find in the paper OR because no one is able to prove the gravitonal effect that mercury or mars retrogrades have upon our experiences. To say BS because of the latter is a really closed minded way of looking at things because gravity is so hardly understood and often deemed to be a really simple force when it is really so mind-bogglingly complicated that there are probably some really intensely significant things happening when a planet passes us by in the solar system.

Don't bet next month's rent based on a horoscope, but I think that at least paying attention to the fact that there is a mercury retrograde going on or that there is a full moon or that we have just entered into a new beginning of a 26,000 year cycle (in 2012, the precession of the equinoxes) is just as significant upon our physical reality as atoms bonding together is.

Excellent. I'm going to take the proper amount of time to digest this information.  I would love if you could expand on your reference to a 26,000 year cycle, what is this all about?
Title: Re: Astrology
Post by: SealTeam6 on June 17, 2013, 05:53 pm
Thanks
Title: Re: Astrology
Post by: Lucius Luv on June 17, 2013, 08:34 pm
i studied astrotheology more than astrology thus far, i learned much from great teachers like jordan maxwell. I always had a shallow interest in astrology, recently i have started looking into it more and more.  You said the moon cause effect upon the ocean, but just as the moon cause effect on the ocean, it cause an effect upon our anatomy.  If anyone want to look into astrology on a scientific basis, a good place to start is the moons effect on brain chemistry.  -yes the stars do effect neurotransmitters such as dopamine and serotonin.  We are always more sexual during a full moon, this has a lot to do with brain chemistry. 

Sealteam or anyone else..  are you familiar with your 'detailed' natal birth chart?       you may be amazed, seriously look that up and report back please -from my experience it gave me a very good mirror into who i am, it's almost scary, -it seems so exact and correct -that i can't logically dismiss my natal birth chart as coincidence.

as above so below rings sooo true.  we are all mini universes, it sucks most people don't understand nor can they relate to a such expansive perspective; ignorance is there bliss.  in reality, most people won't look any deeper into astrology than wikipedia -for example. they have not looked into deas and people such as morphogenetics, shuman resonances,  and masaru emoto.  shits real, it's something i'll be exploring a lot deeper in the future.

Title: Re: Astrology
Post by: SealTeam6 on June 18, 2013, 12:38 am
Thanks Lucius, I will definitely check it out!
Title: Re: Astrology
Post by: soviet on June 18, 2013, 04:29 am
i studied astrotheology more than astrology thus far, i learned much from great teachers like jordan maxwell. I always had a shallow interest in astrology, recently i have started looking into it more and more.  You said the moon cause effect upon the ocean, but just as the moon cause effect on the ocean, it cause an effect upon our anatomy.  If anyone want to look into astrology on a scientific basis, a good place to start is the moons effect on brain chemistry.  -yes the stars do effect neurotransmitters such as dopamine and serotonin.  We are always more sexual during a full moon, this has a lot to do with brain chemistry. 

[Citation Needed]

Title: Re: Astrology
Post by: Lucius Luv on June 19, 2013, 07:15 pm
^we are 3/4 th's  water, how could you logically think we aren't affected as are the oceans?  If you can't find any info, look into(google) positive and negative ion displacement and it's effected on weather.
Title: Re: Astrology
Post by: SealTeam6 on June 20, 2013, 03:34 am
I have found this website to be very useful in sorting the wheat from the chaff:

http://skeptoid.com/episode.php?id=4173

You mention the moons effect on the ocean; are you suggesting that astrology works by gravity?

That website just seemed like a giant rant, the writer obviously sought to prove his own point that astrology had no basis, it started out very bias!
Title: Re: Astrology
Post by: SealTeam6 on June 20, 2013, 03:53 am
Well it looks like the moon argument is taking a beating

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=lunacy-and-the-full-moon
Title: Re: Astrology
Post by: SealTeam6 on June 20, 2013, 04:06 am
Lucius I'm interested in what you mean about "we are all mini universes", help me out brother!
Title: Re: Astrology
Post by: SealTeam6 on June 20, 2013, 04:12 am
Well it looks like the moon argument is taking a beating

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=lunacy-and-the-full-moon
Indeed, I also liked the article you quoted in your previous post:

http://skeptoid.com/episode.php?id=4173

I thought it did a good job at debunking astrology, what points didn't you agree with besides the view of the author.


I really didn't dive too deep into it, the initial tone of the author kind of already let me know where he was going, did you read the entire thing?
Title: Re: Astrology
Post by: Lucius Luv on June 21, 2013, 03:28 am
Lucius I'm interested in what you mean about "we are all mini universes", help me out brother!

just speaking about us being apart of a fractal reality,  some would call it holographic.  Seems as if we live inside of god, god is the universe which surrounds.

Quote
The only reason that the moon causes tidal forces is because of the interaction of the gravity of the moon with the oceans' water.
The earth's gravitational pull has a much greater effect on the oceans compared to the moon.
However the moon also has a noticeable effect causing the surface water closest to the moon to rise slightly.
The effect of the moon is almost negligible if you look at how massive the oceans are.
Do you really think it would have any noticeable effect on the water in our body?
We are only composed of around 40 liters of water, how could you logically conclude that there would be any noticeable effect on the human body if the effect on the entire ocean aren't even that large.

i'm sure you can' at the very least agree that our brain chemistry is affected by light -look at melatonin production and sleep cycles; thats living astrology in it's simplest form. i didn't mention anything about gravity because  honestly i can't wrap my mind around gravity, -it doesn't make much practical sense to me.  I suppose you can call me dumb; electro-magnetics specifically makes most sense to me.   positive and negative charge makes sense, our reality is immersed in ions of earth and from space, the radiation of planetary bodies all interplay with each other,  we can measure their orbits. Our genes are affected by radiation, it can switch genes on and off and can even give us mutations, as we on earth receive differing subtle energies from the planetary bodies in space -it has a direct effect on our dna.

things like native charts in astrology is all about the measurement of energy, and how they angle/beam waves of energy towards us, thus affecting us genetically -even if it's very subtle. We are all genetically very similar, it's the little things which give us traits.
Title: Re: Astrology
Post by: Lucius Luv on June 21, 2013, 12:09 pm
Quote
Also just about everything around you has more of an electromagnetic effect on you compared to the planets.
The sun is the only celestial body that really has much of an effect on humans.

I got you, and understand such..  i think it's a limited mechanical view of reality.  I also think it's a philosophical argument, not scientific.  You say "the sun is the only body that really has much of an effect on humans" - well -by judging your own words -your use of REALLY would suggest that you are saying the sun is the only celestial body that has a STRONG effect on humans, not negating other bodies in space as have an effect, albeit small.   Space is a unified field, you ignore that if you only measure what you see as point A having an effect on point B.

 If a tree falls in the woods, and nobody is around to hear it, does it really fall?  Yes, it does really fall -But for you maybe it doesn't fall -because you lack the tools and perception to measure it.  To suggest what YOU can't strongly measure as having no impact on us means you need newer/updated tools; or older.   Most can't measure subliminal messages, but they are used in all facets of today's commercial reality.

anyways, glad i could get these thoughts out, astrologers would tend to agree with my view on astral-reality,  as would the ancient egyptains, greeks, mayans, and even sir francis bacon.  Enjoy your summer solstice on this beautiful day, i'll be in ritual on lsd and shrooms -meditating on the creative energies resonating through us via the stars and honeymoon.
Title: Re: Astrology
Post by: aredhel on July 24, 2013, 08:29 pm
Quote from: oldtoby
If reality is God's imagining, then there are still correct/false answers to questions, based on what God has imagined.
Consider: for any correct answer to a given question, you can contemplate the correct/true answer *and* its opposite.
If, for example, there is no such thing as a flying pig (ie: God, in this example, does not imagine this to be), I can still imagine there are. If there are flying pigs (God imagines them to be so), I can imagine a world in which they do not exist.

When we are born into this world we are basically born into a collective dream shared by everyone else in this world.  So from the beginning we are "domesticated" into believing all of the shared dreams of everyone else.  This is how we learn and define our "reality" and share the dreams of everyone else.

All this is very interesting. God's imagination is reality to us. Our own imagination, is also reality on some level, we cannot deny it also exists "somewhere".
God would probably imagine multiple worlds, and universes. At some stage of development we can travel from one to the next.

Yes, by getting born in THIS world - as defined by our body/brain and senses - we probably agree to a set of rules for example so we can't override nature's law by our minds. Only in few cases this seems to be possible- otherwise everyone would think of a lion and the lion would suddenly appear (=tendency towards chaos) - IMO this is the very speciality of this world that we have a very solid common ground.

However, on "subtle planes", called "astral plane" by the esotericists, or "common unconcious" by C.G. Jung, we still can work on the "subtle matter". I'm mentioning this because it's necessary for the next theory..

Back to astrology. I have got an idea how to make up a scientifically theory on how astrology CAN work.

Assume, generations of people watching the sky. Sun and moon as the largest celestial bodies from our point of view. Sun has it's obvious seasons in spring, summer, autumn, winter ... building a rhythm. Moon has some more subtle seasons: waxing, full, waning, new moon-.-..still good for everyone to see who doesn't sit in a large company's office (or mum's basement which is essentially the same). Moons gravity is of minor concern here, unless you also live at the seaside, watching the tides ;)  It's the moonlight that matters because it impresses our imagination !

Bright planets like Venus and Jupiter (and sometimes Mars) are seen by most people, too, who take a glimpse at the sky. The least obvious planents would be Mercury and Saturn. Ok, let's assume, by observation throughout the aeons, people are building subtle seasons for each of these planets.
Why ?.. Because it's the people's imagination that CREATES these seasons, as analogue to the sun's seasons.

Consequently, after millenia of conscious build-up by millions of observers, rhythms have been established in the astral energies (hey! that's how they are called! "astral" actually means "stellar" - a giveaway?)
SUCH rhythms actually WOULD have an effect on our emotional life (and consequently on our connection to the world, too), and the zodiac is a psychological depicting of these rhythms.

//And i wonder if the zodiac shouldn't get reversed if you are living in australia .. Aries<->Libra, Taurus<->Scorpio, etc.. Just as a side note.

Now does this make sense?.. Would this be enough to have a serious effect? I think it's possible.