Silk Road forums
Discussion => Philosophy, Economics and Justice => Topic started by: slash on April 02, 2013, 08:28 pm
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please watch this
www.thrivemovement.com/
every language available on the site
thanks
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Its an ok doc i guess. some interesting information for sure. the only gripe i have is the whole free energy thing. i'm well aware of Tesla and his work so its not a new concept to me. i just don't get why they claim free energy devices exist and can easily be built at home yet they offer no blueprints to build them... why?
The rest of the information covered is pretty much what the Zeitgeist films cover.
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Disgusting lies. Scam alert! Nothing is free!
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your mind is free
only if you want it to be though
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your mind is free
only if you want it to be though
It is both caused and free. I bet that statement blows a circuit in your brain though.
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Its an ok doc i guess. some interesting information for sure. the only gripe i have is the whole free energy thing. i'm well aware of Tesla and his work so its not a new concept to me. i just don't get why they claim free energy devices exist and can easily be built at home yet they offer no blueprints to build them... why?
The rest of the information covered is pretty much what the Zeitgeist films cover.
if you watch the whole doc you ll have the answer
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Disgusting lies. Scam alert! Nothing is free!
your comment is poor
please elaborate
the topic is also here to open a debate
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Disgusting lies. Scam alert! Nothing is free!
your comment is poor
please elaborate
the topic is also here to open a debate
Your mind is closed for business. You probably just want to hurt people with this shit. It's hard to believe anyone can take it seriously. I've seen your other posts, you think about hitting people a lot. This is probably an attack on us. Fuck off. If it was my forum you would be banned already.
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Ultimately if you don't know what the law of conservation is, you're lying to yourself pretending to understand a subject you can't understand. You are an inherently dishonest person, you disgust me. You are trying to ruin our minds out of envy.
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Disgusting lies. Scam alert! Nothing is free!
your comment is poor
please elaborate
the topic is also here to open a debate
Your mind is closed for business. You probably just want to hurt people with this shit. It's hard to believe anyone can take it seriously. I've seen your other posts, you think about hitting people a lot. This is probably an attack on us. Fuck off. If it was my forum you would be banned already.
what has buisness to do with this?
I suggest you stop taking drugs as you are so damn paranoid
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Interesting fact on Telsa: The vast majority of his work/papers are classified.....I think the HAARP array has something to do with his work. I remember watching a documentary or reading somewhere about the history of his atmospheric oscillator machine which he built in Colorado, the machine has very similar characteristics to the array in Alaska.
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Thrive is the Dad Rock version of every Zeitgeist film. The host seems like a total nutjob and his wife's presence is straight bizarre. There's better out there...
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Thrive is the Dad Rock version of every Zeitgeist film. The host seems like a total nutjob and his wife's presence is straight bizarre. There's better out there...
I didn't watch the entire documentary. I stopped when Nasim came on and started referring to the UFO's...If you are truly interested in his work, I would suggest reading one of the many critiques of his postulations. I was given the book " The secret to the flower of life" a few years ago by a friend. Interesting thesis, however, it is clearly mystical hyperbole. Might as well go watch "Chariots of the Gods"
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What Is the “Point” of Thrive, Anyway?
Here we get to the real issue: why was Thrive created, what is its ultimate “message,” and who is it aimed at?
When I first began this blog I was reluctant to speculate too much as to Foster Gamble and the other makers’ motives in creating the movie, because those motives are extremely unclear. After studying the film and reaction to it for the past two and a half months, however, I believe we can make a reasonable hypothesis as to why this film was created and what it’s ultimately trying to say.
I’ve recently had a fascinating conversation over email with an academic, who happens to be an expert on conspiracy theories and New Age mythology. This person, whose credentials are impressive, is not a “debunker” as I am—he studies the phenomenon of conspiracy theories and why people believe them, whereas my study of them (and I do not study them in an academic realm) focuses on ascertaining their factual veracity. After my conversation with this person regarding Thrive, which helped me to see the larger context in which the movie operates, I think I understand the point of the film much better than I did in November. This topic is worth expanding upon and will probably be the subject of a self-contained article.
The upshot of my conversation with the expert was that Thrive was created as a means to explain, at least partially, the failure of New Age concepts—which have been around and popular since at least the ‘70s—to result in the transformative change that many New Age believers insisted would flow from the implementation of their ideas. Here is what he had to say on the subject (he asked that his identifying information not be disclosed on this blog, but he gave me permission to post his words):
“I suspect that what’s going on is that New Age, now entering its third generation, has developed a theodicy. Now, this is a theological term, but it essentially means an explanation of the existence of evil – why bad things happen to good people. For some of those in the New Age milieu – Foster Gamble, David Icke, Duncan Rhodes and others, all incidentally in middle age and with a long term involvement in the New Age milieu – an explanation is needed as to why, if we’ve entered the Age of Aquarius, is the world less peaceful, equal and progressive than ever? Conspiracy theories offer such a theodicy – the New Age hasn’t happened because evil people prevented it from happening.”
Once you start to consider Thrive from this angle, everything falls into place. It suddenly makes sense why Thrive carefully strokes the various tropes of New Age belief systems: UFOs, ancient astronauts, ***-med miracle cures, benevolent aliens and magical free energy machines. It also makes sense why, once the movie has proclaimed its sympathy with these themes, it turns on a fire hose of conspiracy craziness, theory after theory thrown willy-nilly at the audience in an attempt to make one or more of them stick. The movie’s point, therefore, is this: “The reason that our New Age beliefs haven’t transformed the world is because the evil conspirators are thwarting us.”
This also explains why Thrive’s supporters aren’t generally swayed by factual arguments or applications of logic and critical thinking. The point is not to establish literal, verifiable truth (though the film seems, on the surface, to want to do this as well). The point is to validate an essentially spiritual belief system. At its core, then, seen from this angle, Thrive is basically a religious text. A Thrive supporter is no more likely to abandon his support for the film, when presented evidence that crop circles are terrestrial in origin or the Global Domination Agenda does not exist, than a Mormon is to leave the Church of Latter-Day Saints when told that there is no archaeological evidence that the Nephites and Lamanites actually existed.
“Thrive is not out to get anyone other than the people that Gamble feels are responsible for the situation we find ourselves in today. I believe that all Thrive is trying to do is show people the power they have, which to me is amazing because all I see everywhere are reminders of how I need to better myself or change who I am because its not good enough. I don’t feel the need to back up any claims with links or anything of that nature because you can’t cite the claim I have which is this; Every human being has the capability of being amazing no matter what but there are people who try very hard to keep us unaware of this….I just love the movie Thrive because it gives me hope. All I want is for as many people to be inspired by this movie the way I was because it is too hard for me to see and hear about so many people living with so little while we enjoy the benefits of their destruction.”
So Thrive, then, is probably intended to be accepted on spiritual and philosophical terms—not factual ones.
That means that unless I’m ready to give battle on the supposed spiritual basis of Thrive, I need to delete this blog immediately, right? Not quite.
There’s Just One Problem…Thrive Purports to be a Documentary
Unfortunately Thrive doesn’t wear its intentions on its sleeve. On the face of it, it appears to be a documentary—a movie intended to state what the facts actually are. The fact that I had to talk to an academic expert on conspiracy theories and New Age beliefs to realize that it is not really a documentary demonstrates this. It also leaves the movie and its makes with the same fundamental problem that drew me to begin debunking it in the first place: the things that it says are facts are not, in fact, true.
Appreciating the New Age context in which many supporters of Thrive perceive the movie is one thing. However, it doesn’t change that the movie is still out there claiming to be a documentary and telling people that the Rockefellers control their food supply and that evil oil companies are suppressing extraterrestrial technology. So long as statements of fantasy such as these are continued to be passed off as objective fact, attacking Thrive on the basis of its factual accuracy is, in my view, entirely fair game. To argue otherwise is to argue, effectively, either that (i) facts don’t matter; (ii) Foster Gamble’s good intentions in making the film should immunize him from criticism about its assertions; or (iii) that the purported “goodness” of the movie’s overall message outweighs the transgressions it makes against the truth. This article, I feel, has already effectively refuted (i) and (ii). Point (iii) makes me uneasy because it’s essentially an “ends justify the means” argument, which is always dangerous.
Regardless of whether Foster Gamble would himself agree that the purported factual assertions in the movie should be taken with a “grain of salt”—and it would be very problematic if he did state that unequivocally—there’s no question that some people out there do believe everything Thrive says. I can state that, between comments received on this blog and replies directed to me on Twitter, I have, since beginning this blog, seen an example of an assertion of the direct factual accuracy of every major claim made in the film. Granted, this is spread among many different commenters, but if each individual claim in the movie is believed to be literal fact by at least one person, that still adds up to a lot of people believing in a lot of untrue claims. This is the problem with movies that play fast and loose with the facts masquerading as documentaries. It’s deceptive. If you’re trying to tell people the way things really are, here on Earth in our real world, by doing so you owe at least a moral duty to tell these things accurately, and that means doing diligent research to make sure the claims you want to make are really true. Given the ease with which I and the other contributors to this blog have debunked many of its claims, I’m left with serious doubts that Mr. Gamble and the others responsible for Thrive have done the research they should have done before passing off these claims as true.
Should we give Thrive a pass on its facts and instead praise its motives or its message? So long as its makers offer it as a factual documentary, no, we shouldn’t. It’s just that simple.
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Whole lot of ass psuedoscience and dreams mixed in with a few handpicked facts................ GARBAGE!!!!
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Thank you, Kensho! That was a pleasant gem of insight.
Now, about so-called "Free Energy".... Um... just look at the Sun. The Earth, with its 7.9 thousand mile diameter, is 90 billion miles away from the sun. We receive, in an instant of what Earth receives in sunlight, the net equivalent of energy what the human population consumes in a year. This drives the thermohaline cycle, our weather patterns, etc. It is a natural fusion source. Natural Fusion being the key term here. Yeah, it's free energy, but it is not free to collect or transmit. The Universe has a 4degK background radiation, otherwise known as the Cosmic Background Radiation--the so-called fingerprint of the Big Bang... of which I'm not a subscriber... but vaguely, you can find truth in this and all religious interpretations...
The Newtonian laws of thermodynamics still hold true, and as we move forward in the quantum era, we are finding new tricks to come closer to 50% and greater efficiencies through electro-mechanical (electromatter) devices. The human body is only 25% efficient at converting food into energy... However, with a complex ecosystem, the return is outrageously higher--look at organic gardening... self-sustainability! But this still takes a serious toll on energy investment.
You don't get anything for free. Not monetarily or thermodynamically. If you do, then something has gone wrong. The "free" was a mistake... someone lost it, or it was a byproduct of some yet undiscovered physical property. A gamma ray burst is free energy, but I don't think you wanna go find one of those... at least not until our technology gets about 1000 generations better. We're still monkeys trying to re-invent the wheel on Earth: fusion;--when fusion is already available. We just have to collect it....
Need more rare earth metals? We have an asteroid belt for that, enriched with all the metals a supernova could create....
More on free: the meteor that crashed on Russia recently, that was free. Do you see what free gets you? Sonic booms, injuries. And that meteor wasn't even orthogonal to the surface of the Earth. Do you know how destructive that could have been if it was headed straight down???? Bad. Very bad... these are supernova relics... astronomical bombs that send shit through space... until you start to comprehend how little your brain is, then you will fall for shit like this.
Again, thank you, Kensho, for your enlightening review. I will not waste my time on watching the video. I hope others that do watch and are fascinated by its conspiracy theory pick up an introductory book on physics and chemistry. It will save them--as KintaroBC put it--death by envy... The same empty feeling that comes from playing the lottery and never winning.
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I strongly recommend that everyone checks out a website and
Podcast called "Skeptoid" which offers well researched rebuttals and investigations of ludicrous pseudoscience claims of all kinds, including the HAARP conspiracy theories and some of the more outlandish claims about Tesla. Tesla was a genius who pioneered many things we take for granted but he had something of an erratic mind in his later years; the government did indeed classify his work as there was so much of it that might potentially have been useful. It seems he did success in transmitting power wirelessly over short distances but alas the inverse square law rendered it so inefficient as to be impractical.
And if anyone mentions zero point energy or cold fusion they are ignorant of basic science
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I strongly recommend that everyone checks out a website and
Podcast called "Skeptoid" which offers well researched rebuttals and investigations of ludicrous pseudoscience claims of all kinds, including the HAARP conspiracy theories and some of the more outlandish claims about Tesla. Tesla was a genius who pioneered many things we take for granted but he had something of an erratic mind in his later years; the government did indeed classify his work as there was so much of it that might potentially have been useful. It seems he did success in transmitting power wirelessly over short distances but alas the inverse square law rendered it so inefficient as to be impractical.
And if anyone mentions zero point energy or cold fusion they are ignorant of basic science
Bump. Knowledge = Power. Knowledge == Survival.
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what has buisness to do with this?
I suggest you stop taking drugs as you are so damn paranoid
Nice ad hominem bro.
You can't logically conclude any of my propositions are "paranoid."
You want to hurt people. Stop lying!
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I strongly recommend that everyone checks out a website and
Podcast called "Skeptoid" which offers well researched rebuttals and investigations of ludicrous pseudoscience claims of all kinds, including the HAARP conspiracy theories and some of the more outlandish claims about Tesla. Tesla was a genius who pioneered many things we take for granted but he had something of an erratic mind in his later years; the government did indeed classify his work as there was so much of it that might potentially have been useful. It seems he did success in transmitting power wirelessly over short distances but alas the inverse square law rendered it so inefficient as to be impractical.
And if anyone mentions zero point energy or cold fusion they are ignorant of basic science
I'll just jump in and recommend the podcast Skeptics Guide to the Universe. It's awesome. Start to finish folks, even if you can't finish.
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Yes, I listen to that one too, its a different format to Skeptoid but very informative too. I can't count the number of times when arguing with someones woo beliefs online I have been able to link to the appropriate skeptoid page and say "I can't make it any clearer than that"
I wouldn't be exaggerating to say that discovering the online skeptical movement has changed the way I look at the world. I mean I wasn't some true believer beforehand, but its helped solidify my philosophical stance.
I would really like to hear a skeptical analysis of libertarianism. While I am intrigued by what I have read after discovering the concept on these forums, I feel it has flaws that I am perhaps not competent to articulate. To me, it just seems like an overly simplistic idea; that the answer to every problem is 'let the market decide'. But its difficult to argue against because of this very simplicity. Like creationists who answer with "but it says so in the bible". Libertarians have "the market could do that better".
I find the movement quite worrying. It seems to have a strong foothold in the US, anyway, I digress. I am aware these sentiments are in a minority here as DPR set up the site as a demonstration of these principles.
I'd just like to see them discussed in a less one sided manner