Silk Road forums

Discussion => Silk Road discussion => Topic started by: goblin on March 16, 2012, 04:00 pm

Title: Buyer's refund rate
Post by: goblin on March 16, 2012, 04:00 pm
I'm very new here still, and I want to ask you experienced vendors something about refund rates for buyers. Would you consider a refund rate of 5.9%, out of six total transactions for a total of some fifty-odd BTC, excessive? What does a particular refund rate mean, exactly?

I got an order and I'm evaluating it to see if I fulfill it or not.

Thanks a lot.
Title: Re: Buyer's refund rate
Post by: Reseller on March 16, 2012, 07:27 pm
As a vendor, I wouldn't be overly cautious with a buyer whose refund rate is under 10% as long as he/she has more than 10 transactions.

Even worse to me is buyers with a high auto-finalize rate. I will cancel their orders.
Title: Re: Buyer's refund rate
Post by: goblin on March 16, 2012, 07:34 pm
Thanks, Reseller. The person's got 6 transactions, with Auto-finalize rate: 0%. I guess I'd be OK fulfilling the order.
Title: Re: Buyer's refund rate
Post by: Appa on March 16, 2012, 08:45 pm
How exactly is refund rate calculated?  In the instance goblin mentioned above, I originally assumed it meant that out of six total transactions, 5.9% of them resulted in a refund.  That would be about 1/3 of one transaction, which made me think I'm missing something.

Is it simply that 5.9% of the total BTC spent were refunded?  At about 3 BTC for the OP situation, that could easily be one of the six orders, and makes a lot more sense.
Title: Re: Buyer's refund rate
Post by: Reseller on March 16, 2012, 10:50 pm
How exactly is refund rate calculated?  In the instance goblin mentioned above, I originally assumed it meant that out of six total transactions, 5.9% of them resulted in a refund.  That would be about 1/3 of one transaction, which made me think I'm missing something.

Is it simply that 5.9% of the total BTC spent were refunded?  At about 3 BTC for the OP situation, that could easily be one of the six orders, and makes a lot more sense.

AFAIK, it is calculated using the total number of refunded transactions divided by the total number of all transactions. HOWEVER, bigger purchases are weighted more and smaller purchases are weighted less.
Title: Re: Buyer's refund rate
Post by: Horizons on March 16, 2012, 11:41 pm
I've had one refund in 23 transactions and my refund rate is 5.6%. It's higher than it should be, especially if I take prices into account, since it was one of my cheapest buys.

I found out that this is because SR weighs more recent transactions more heavily (the refund was on my second-to-last buy). This is great, since it can more easily reflect a buyer's current condition. Say I've always been a stand-up buyer but start heavily scamming vendors for refunds... even though I may have over 100 non-refunded transactions under my belt, half a dozen refunds will still make my percentage climb high. And also on the contrary case - if a buyer has had many refunds in the past, but has recently had only smooth transactions, his refund rate will be lower to reflect that.

It's a very nicely thought-out system. I like it, even if right now it's working against me (though not really since in practice it hasn't stopped anyone from dealing with me).
Title: Re: Buyer's refund rate
Post by: quinone on March 17, 2012, 05:09 pm
I've had a few auto-finalize cuz i'm International and am used to waiting 21+ days for an order.  Every order that went to auto-finalize arrived within days of that. 

It's not my intention to with-hold the vendor from their money, but I can't release it until it arrives.  To start a resolution over a matter that always works itself out within day's of the auto-finalize seems like a lot of extra work, and the vendor still get's the money when it auto-finalizes.

I'm just being vocal because I don't think it's fair a vendor cancel all order's with a buyer who has a bit higher auto-finalize rate. 
Am I being punished for being patient and not trying to harass the vendor with msgs about 'where's my package, I want it now now now' before a reasonable shipping window (21 days) has elapsed?

I mean you no offense Reseller and you are free to run your business however you see fit, I just hope you can see my side of the story.

Would a 6% auto-finalize and 3% refund rate on 25 transactions be considered a 'questionable' buyer status profile given the 6% auto-finalize?
Title: Re: Buyer's refund rate
Post by: Horizons on March 18, 2012, 02:01 pm
Am I being punished for being patient and not trying to harass the vendor with msgs about 'where's my package, I want it now now now' before a reasonable shipping window (21 days) has elapsed?

You don't have to harass the vendor. When the auto-finalize deadline is coming, you can click "resolve" and ask for a deadline extension. Just explain that you live in a remote area and that packages usually take longer to reach you. I'm in the same situation, and a five-day extension is usually more than enough for my packages to arrive safely.

The problem with auto-finalize is that most orders arrive long before the auto-finalize deadline, so auto-finalizing is seen as the result of a lazy buyer who doesn't bother to release the funds when his package arrives, and instead waits for the system to do it automatically.
Title: Re: Buyer's refund rate
Post by: killboy on March 18, 2012, 04:34 pm
I am a relatively new buyer with only 6 sucessful transactions so far.  I ordered from our most reputable vender, Pharmville.  12 days passed and it never showed up.  No response.  I really hope they come back and fix this because I truly care about my buyer statistics.  If they refund me I will end up with like a 50 percent refund rate and no one will sell to me. FML, what do I do?
Title: Re: Buyer's refund rate
Post by: betaraybob on March 19, 2012, 03:43 pm
I am a relatively new buyer with only 6 sucessful transactions so far.  I ordered from our most reputable vender, Pharmville.  12 days passed and it never showed up.  No response.  I really hope they come back and fix this because I truly care about my buyer statistics.  If they refund me I will end up with like a 50 percent refund rate and no one will sell to me. FML, what do I do?


i would just be patient killboy, while they are in the middle of revamping their entire system things are bound to get a little mixed up. im sure when they are back and you voice your concerns to them then they will help you out like the consummate professionals they are. little buyers or big buyers i've seen them treat all their customers as well as you can expect. they strike me as people who care more about their reputation than the bottom line, although if they can do both that shows you how seriously they take their business. any grievances i think you take directly to them as long as its justified and they will work out whatever needs to be worked out. much like many other reputable and respected vendors on SR.  :)
Title: Re: Buyer's refund rate
Post by: killboy on March 20, 2012, 02:44 am
So if they don't return and my package don't come and my order is about to auto-finalize, what do I do?  I hate to pay for something I didn't get.  I'm kinda in a situation.  I do trust them, but I also want to protect myself.
Title: Re: Buyer's refund rate
Post by: betaraybob on March 20, 2012, 03:15 am
So if they don't return and my package don't come and my order is about to auto-finalize, what do I do?  I hate to pay for something I didn't get.  I'm kinda in a situation.  I do trust them, but I also want to protect myself.


i've never let it get around to auto-finalizing so i dont know how that works. i would write them a pm and tell them you are going to cancel the order so that way you don't lose out on your money. they should let you know dcn# so you'll be able to know its on the way. if you are able to cancel and then still receive your order, then i would make sure to send them the owed btc immediately or ask them to make a custom listing so you can make the order again.
Title: Re: Buyer's refund rate
Post by: That 1 Dude on March 24, 2012, 09:03 pm
If a vendor does not process an order for a few days and i cancel the order when the option becomes available, Do I receive any negative to my buyers profile?
Title: Re: Buyer's refund rate
Post by: Reseller on March 25, 2012, 08:18 pm
I've had a few auto-finalize cuz i'm International and am used to waiting 21+ days for an order.  Every order that went to auto-finalize arrived within days of that. 

It's not my intention to with-hold the vendor from their money, but I can't release it until it arrives.  To start a resolution over a matter that always works itself out within day's of the auto-finalize seems like a lot of extra work, and the vendor still get's the money when it auto-finalizes.

I'm just being vocal because I don't think it's fair a vendor cancel all order's with a buyer who has a bit higher auto-finalize rate. 
Am I being punished for being patient and not trying to harass the vendor with msgs about 'where's my package, I want it now now now' before a reasonable shipping window (21 days) has elapsed?

I mean you no offense Reseller and you are free to run your business however you see fit, I just hope you can see my side of the story.

Would a 6% auto-finalize and 3% refund rate on 25 transactions be considered a 'questionable' buyer status profile given the 6% auto-finalize?
No offense taken. As a high rate I would say any number above 20% is a big deal to me.