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Market => Product offers => Topic started by: BenJesuit on March 17, 2013, 08:40 am

Title: Leaving Sample Feedback - if it's FREE, always give 5/5. If it's paid for...
Post by: BenJesuit on March 17, 2013, 08:40 am
Looking at some new vendors and I noticed that some people leave less than 5/5 for free samples sometimes. WTH? Seriously?

Being one of the members of reliable reviewers list, I always leave a 5/5 if the sample was sent free or close to it (like having to pay .01-.10BTC). It's what you're supposed to do -  you always leave a 5/5. There's no excuse not to unless the product is terrible or not as described. Any other minor issue, you write in the feedback comment section.

Seriously, a new vendor pays a lot of money to become a vendor than spends more money to send you a sample for free. So it's rude to leave anything other than 5/5. Why hurt the vendor's rating? SR's rating system needs an overhaul since a 4/5 carries about the same damage as a 1/5. Especially hurts new vendors with relatively little feedback to begin with.

I got a sample from a vendor a few weeks back that took longer than expected to arrive. But hey, it was free so how could I really complain? And to make up for the delay, the vendor doubled my FREE order. That's a 5/5 and if I could, 6/5. Yet some people were giving the poor guy 4/5 or 3/5 simply because it was late in shipping. Yet they paid nothing for shipping or for the sample which he doubled for everybody who requested a sample. Looking back on his review thread, some even called him a scammer. LOL. How is a vendor a scammer if you didn't lose anything? Some of you noobs, I swear.

What a kick in the head. Talk about serious ingratitude and lack of empathy.



***So, noobs, here are the RULES OF ETIQUETTE for leaving FEEDBACK for FREE (or close to free) SAMPLES:***


1.) If you don't like the packaging (like hand written instead of printed labels, or used an obviously fake return address) - you leave a 5/5 and talk about the labeling in the feedback comment section and/or review thread. You don't leave anything less than 5/5. 4/5 or less hurts the vendor. It doesn't help the community because the vendor can improve when he starts actually selling. 

2.) If you think it wasn't stealth enough but made it to you without issue. 5/5 and talk about stealth or need for improvement in the feedback comment section and/or review thread. You don't leave a 4/5 or less. By leaving a complaint about what you may consider lack of stealth or less stealth than you might like in the comment section, buyers will read it and wonder if they should take a chance. The vendor can always improve their stealth. You weren't hurt by their packaging. So why would you hurt the vendor with less than 5/5?

3.) If it took longer to get to you than you expected. 5/5 and you can complain in the feedback comment section and/or review thread. Who knows why it took the vendor longer to get your FREE order to you. It might be because he decided on a different type of packaging or decided on a better delivery plan. But the point is, you got it and you got it for free. 5/5. Period. Vendor will likely do better for PAID product and PAID shipping.

4.)  If the vendor didn't answer your questions but you got your sample - 5/5 and you can complain in the feedback comment section and/or review thread about communications. Some vendors don't answer your questions because the answer is in their profile which you didn't bother to read. Common complaint from vendors is that buyers don't read their profile page but would rather waste a vendor's time asking a question which is likely addressed on the profile page. And since TOR is slow, do the vendor a favor, read before asking a question. You only have to do a few clicks to get your answer and you got all the time in the world. 

5.) If you received the wrong quantity for your FREE sample - 5/5. Whatever you got, you got for FREE. You can complain in the feedback comment section and/or review thread. Vendor may have decided at the last minute that it's costing him too much to send out free samples or he wants to send out more free samples so he had to reduce the sample size in order to make that happen. Or he could have miscounted. But guess what? He can make it up to you. Not that he needs to since it was FREE. But most would just so you know you can trust them. So give them the chance.

6.) If it's pills and 1 or 2 came broken. LOL. So what. 5/5. It was free. They may have sent it on purpose because they can't sell broken pills. Sometimes the broken pills are "extra." Leave a comment in feedback and/or review. If it was because of packaging, let the vendor know. That's how you help a vendor and the community out.

Also, with pills... they don't require any where near as much stealth as weed or coke or heroin or other powdery, crytsally yummy goodness. Why? I'll let you in on a little secret. Billions of bottles of pills and blister packs are shipped in the mail every year from supplement and vitamin shops and even pharmaceuticals direct to the customer. And all they do is put a little cotton on top of the bottle to prevent the pills from rubbing against each other too much. But they still rattle around in the bottles and blister packs. Plus, the bottle rolls around inside the box. Don't believe it? Order from a vitamin shop. Get some 5HTP (which is good for you if you do any serotonin depleting RC's like MDMA). It will come in a bottle, rattling, and rolling around in a box with a receipt, maybe some brown bag-like packing paper and maybe some ad flyers/coupons for your next order.

So don't expect an order for pills to come vacuum sealed inside multiple layers as if that is some gold standard. That's only necessary for the dank and other smellys  (triple vac seal is best for those but not foolproof either). Pills can come in a bottle, a zip lock baggie, wrapped in tissue paper, in an envelope inside a bubble envelop, etc. Point is, if it got to you and the package is unmolested, don't ding a vendor for stealth. Especially if you didn't have to sign for it. And you can't ding a vendor over the possibility that it might not be "stealthy enough" and if the package had ripped open exposing the contents theory... Hey, I thought about this once after an order of pills can in just a regular size 10 envelop with the pills wrapped in loose leaf paper and realized that if that had happened, the package simply wouldn't get delivered. Anyone can send anyone anything in the mail. It doesn't mean you ordered it.  Like the case with the lady who got a couple of pounds of weed delivered to her house by accident and the dealers came looking for it. She sued Fedex and the dumb ass dealers were arrested. So I gave the vendor a 5/5 and just mentioned that he might want to do a little better just so pills don't get crushed but I wasn't worried about "stealth." And that was a paid for order. {Though I get some of you kiddies might not want mommy opening your mail to discover you ordered pills. But guess what? No amount of stealth will stop mommy from discovering your pills if she opens the package. In fact, the more stealthy it is, the more mommy will be interested to know what it is. Women love hunting for treasure or exposing secrets. Remember that. So don't punish the vendor because you don't have a better drop than your mommy's/parent's house.}


SUMMARY:

Point is, if it cost you nothing or close to nothing, you have NO right to leave anything less than a 5/5 (unless it falls under the exceptions below). Good grief, you got FREE drugs. And then you would think it's OK to leave anything less than a 5/5? You help the community by leaving comments for buyers to read next to your 5/5. And also making a review on the forum for those who actually use the forum for vendor/product research. The vendor is starting out. They're probably not going to do things perfectly at the beginning. But they deserve a 100% rating for losing money on you in exchange for a 5/5 and maybe some guidance and advice. 

Exception: if they sent you fake drugs or very poor quality but advertise otherwise, yes, even though it was free to you, they misrepresented the product. That deserves less than 5/5. But the odds of that happening for a sample is VERY low. Samples are either the best they offer or what a vendor will always be offering. But even if this happens, talk with the vendor first before leaving anything less than 5/5. Sometimes, it's your own tolerance to the drug that is making you experience less than expected. I've had an occasion once where the free sample was premium quality stuff. So I purchased more of it only to receive somewhat lesser quality product. Before leaving less than 5/5 for the vendor, I msg'd him to talk about it. And guess what? He made it right by sending out another for free. And it was good stuff.

ALSO NOTE: you don't have to leave feedback at all. This is useful especially if you FE. If you FE, just click finalize. When the feedback page comes up after, instead of leaving 5/5 and a comment,"FE'd for trusted vendor." Just close the browser tab or close the browser WITHOUT clicking "Submit Feedback." You can go back later and change it. How? Hit account, then view feedback, then find order and hit edit. (I learned this from another poster - so I take no credit. And I only FE'd once in over a year of being here. Almost got burned but vendor resent product because I had a good rapport with him. Unfortunately, others who FE'd with same vendor lost money. Sad tale.)

Anyway, consider this a public service announcement.

Especially for the noob buyers who are lucky enough to even get picked to review a sample for free. Always leave a 5/5 for free samples and use the comment section of the feedback to discuss whatever bugaboo that you think could be better. And also leave a forum review.

I honestly can't believe someone would think it's OK to leave less than 5/5 feedback for a free sample that cost the vendor shipping plus his/her wholesale cost of the product. By leaving less than a 5/5, you're doubling their loss. Nice going. (And you wonder why a lot of vendors want noobs to FE. They are just as bad if not worse when they pay for something. Ready to run to SR resolutions for the slightest imperfection.)

Vendors should blacklist those who give less than 5/5 for free samples so other new vendors will know to refuse sending those buyers free samples. Or even doing business with them once they start selling. I mean if someone can leave less than 5/5 for FREE product, imagine what they might leave for paid product? I shudder to think.

I rant because, while I'm on the reliable reviewers list, I think vendors shouldn't think that the only people to send free samples to are only those on the list. Everyone should have a chance to sample free goodies provided that their stats are decent/good and they promise to abide by the terms of receiving the free sample. But if noob buyers keep leaving less than 5/5 on a free sample, then vendors won't want to send to noobs or people not on the reliable reviewers list. And then the list of reliable reviewers won't grow. It'll just be an exclusive club of veteran buyers.

We need the list to grow because many drugs have a subjective experience. Or sometimes someone knows a good synergy with another drug and they talk about that in the review. Point is the more diversified the feedback, the better for the vendor and the community.



***************
FOR VENDORS:

If you don't want to risk noobs who don't understand this basic rule of etiquette for FREE samples, you have 3 options:

1. Be assertive and spell it out in your offer for FREE sample that a 5/5 feedback must be left. And say, "If you feel that you might not leave 5/5 feedback, please don't ask for a sample." Yeah, it's rudeboy behavior. But you're a badass drug dealer. Run with that image as scare some of these noobs into submission.

Or just put in your sample product description "if you have an issue, please PM me/us before leaving feedback less than 5/5." It has to be in the description and not just on your vendor page. They don't read the vendor page, remember? ;)

2. Link to this post in your offer. Yeah, I know it seems self-serving of me and maybe arrogant. But it might save you a headache and your rating. So it's win-win.

3. Or only ship freebies to reliable reviewers - we know the drill and know how to treat vendors new and old alike: http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?topic=117957.0   

********************************************************

PAID FOR A SAMPLE? (Just shipping or a discount price for sample)

Then via con Dios. It's your money. You do what you think best. But if you give a vendor a chance before leaving feedback, you might be pleasantly surprised at their response.



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EDIT: I added #6 and cleaned up my spelling. And clarified a few points to take into account things I didn't think about originally.  And also added advice for vendors. So I think this novel of a post covers the basics.

Thanks for the +Karma BTW. Right back at ya. ;)
Title: Re: Leaving Sample Feedback - if it's free, always give 5/5. If it's paid for...
Post by: National Direct on March 17, 2013, 09:41 am
Great writeup! Inclusion of exceptional circumstances makes this list of rules complete, and should be followed IMO, or you shouldn't sample vendors. To lower the feedback score (you can write a little note so it doesn't take the vendor down below 90 because of few transactions.) for transit time that is affected by many factors that vendors can't control - is ignorant. We don't need ignorant people telling us about new vendor products and experiences, we want intelligence. If you disagree with Ben's rules, then stick to sampling food at your local grocery store. Subpar numerical ratings for new vendors can deter customers that would be impressed if not for unreasonable rating deductions. I don't imagine its easy to get many sales after freeloading pricks steal from u and vandalize your reputation. That's a hard hit when many of us invest an inial $2-10K to get things going.

Remember that vendors now pay $500 to sell, which is only reimbursed after 6 weeks and total revenue of $1500 with a certain number of transactions. What foolish vendor would compromise everything they invested just to rattle ur cage? I've had the pleasure of sampling new vendors for a year now, my first purchase was from a vendor with <5 Tx and a helpful/friendly attitude. I still frequently try out new vendors because they add value to build their initial customer base. A few extra pills, overweight product, and free samples of other wares that they sell. If I see roomfor improvement, I PM my duggestion, which is usually taken kindly, and acted on. I wasn't perfect when I started selling, but open customer relationships allowed for constructive criticism that improved my business. Packaging capsules as lettermail initially had few damages, but my aim was for no breakage. Switching from bubblewrap as my primary insert, I began using double corrugated cardboard, which was successful for a while. 1 breakage and the addition of a strong wrap of packing tape made my packaging what it is today.  ;)

+1 Karma if im at 10 yet
Title: Re: Leaving Sample Feedback - if it's free, always give 5/5. If it's paid for...
Post by: RaFaeL5 on March 17, 2013, 11:00 am
I agree with the OP,

but have to add that, if someone send you the wrong product, then also you should give less than 5/5.
I don't mean if someone was suppose to send you Purple Haze and you got some Jack Herrer,
but if you're supposed to get a sample of coke and you get some horse - that for me is a good reason to give a 1/5.
I think this kind of error is unforgivalbe!
Not only do you get the wrong product (and some people who don't know their drug's but try to get free samples anyway could get hurt because of that), but you have been put at risk for something you didn't agree on.
It happened allready 2 times to me - both sellers got a PM full of insults and -censure- , both their forumpages saw a long and detailed message from me explaining why I was angry at them AND I gave them a 1/5 rating.

But normally I always have a tight communication with the dealer about my findings and I think this is how it should be done.
As long as you get your stuff for free you should appreciate it, use it wisely and share your idea's about it with the seller. Communication with the seller can improve his service, his (and yours) security and this is helpful for the whole community... To my opinion this is a task that you accept when you enroll for free samples: getting something from the community but then also giving something back to the community.

PS: BenJesuit: you're on the list of Rel.Rev. but you don't put the link to that page in your signature - that's a pitty  :-\

Title: Re: Leaving Sample Feedback - if it's free, always give 5/5. If it's paid for...
Post by: italosvevo on March 17, 2013, 01:22 pm
+1
Title: Re: Leaving Sample Feedback - if it's free, always give 5/5. If it's paid for...
Post by: nwportlandguy on March 17, 2013, 02:28 pm
I agree 100%!  I think the biggest problem is that a lot of people don't realize how bad a 4/5 fucks a new vendor.  Also, people that have never sold drugs or ran any kind of business don't realize all the shit that can go wrong for a vendor, especially just starting out.  Great public service announcement! :)
Title: Re: Leaving Sample Feedback - if it's free, always give 5/5. If it's paid for...
Post by: ramrugger on March 17, 2013, 03:06 pm
As usual, I think BJ's brilliance isn't covering enough ground. 

Did you pay $20 total for an 8th of great indoor? Don't you ever leave lower than a 5/5, you heathen. That's absurdly below market and the new vendor paid yet more out of his or her pocket to get you that discounted sample. This is why the comments section on the feedback form exists, and the real reason the forums even exist at all. Let it all out in one of those places if you must, but not on the (stupidly weighted) numeric rating.

That all said, I feel like I haven't said it here recently, but it's a lesson I see people like BJ practice all the time: just fucking be decent, you guys. We're all here for our own reasons but there's no point in tearing down some anonymous person's business because you didn't like the free or dirt cheap thing they sent you.
Title: Re: Leaving Sample Feedback - if it's free, always give 5/5. If it's paid for...
Post by: BenJesuit on March 17, 2013, 04:32 pm
PS: BenJesuit: you're on the list of Rel.Rev. but you don't put the link to that page in your signature - that's a pitty  :-\

Yeah, I know. I should probably add it to my sig. It's just that while I'm on the list for being a reliable reviewer (99% reliable because I know I must have missed a review) I think everyone should get a shot at getting a free sample to review. We all had to start somewhere.

Besides, vendors sometimes approach me to do a review. Or, I might happen to notice them on SR giving out samples in their listing and I'll just order there knowing I'll meet their qualifications given my stats.

I don't know. Anyway, I'll think about adding it.
Title: Re: Leaving Sample Feedback - if it's FREE, always give 5/5. If it's paid for...
Post by: soralangg on March 17, 2013, 04:37 pm
Totally agree, the only thing I do differently is with regards to any stealth issues is just message the vendor first about it, and then just mention in my feedback that I messaged them regarding something trivial (because usually it is).   
Title: Re: Leaving Sample Feedback - if it's FREE, always give 5/5. If it's paid for...
Post by: Vatican on March 17, 2013, 05:44 pm
I would give a +1 for this if I could!
Great writeup!
Title: Re: Leaving Sample Feedback - if it's FREE, always give 5/5. If it's paid for...
Post by: BenJesuit on March 17, 2013, 07:52 pm
Thinking back on some of my experiences with vendors (and we're talking about well over 100 orders), I added a few things. And also added a spot for vendors on how they can minimize the chance of getting less than 5/5 feedback on FREE samples. Hopefully some of that advice will help open up samples to more members (especially low stat noobies) and we can grow the list of reliable reviewers.

Oh and sample whores aren't so bad. I know we tend to villainize them and call them out on it. But they are after all providing a service (guaranteed 5/5 for vendor - but no review sadly) in exchange for free drugs. Just like real life whores. Except IRL, a whore's medium of exchange is cash... or drugs. Or both come to think of it. :D
Title: Re: Leaving Sample Feedback - if it's FREE, always give 5/5. If it's paid for...
Post by: National Direct on March 19, 2013, 05:25 am
I ship free samples in return for honest reviews, although it is an infrequent query for me to get I still accept them. Postage is paid by the customer tho. I feel I've established myself and have regular customers now so I don't scavenge for reviews. I also don't complain if someone rates me under 5/5. I got a rating of 4/5 for 3/10 broken capsules for which I gave store credit for the value of the order, and I did not ask or expect a 5/5. I'm responsive enough that I take it for what it is. I've learnt from customer complaints of broken capsules (we only sell capsules lol) that our packaging was below or standards, even though 1/25 arrived with damages that was not the perfection I wanted. Since I ship with lettermail to offer excellent value, I needed to learn from experience how to best package lettermail that is not treated with the fragility of a parcel, especially running thru automated processing facilities. 2 packaging methods later and we believe we have done the best we can for lettermail.

Note: In Canada parcels are very expensive to send since the country is large and population low relative to the distances between regions. Lettermail is a standard $1.34 for a #10 envelope weighing up to 100g and no thicker than 2cm. Tough space to work with but we reworked packaging twice:

First method: Mostly bubblewrap in a paper envelop; 5% breakage.

Rework 1: Corrugated card board was glued 2-pile with a hole thru the middle for the products, index cards secured the products in place with some tape; Still same breakage reported.

Rework 2: Same as above, but we wrapped the double corrugated cardboard with tape like a fucking mummy pulling the tape over tightly to discourage bending against the direction the tape was wrapped, this was followed by an adjacent wrapping of tape to solidify the package and prevent bending in any direction. So in the end, thanks to our customers, we learned that shipping lettermail was easy, all you gotta do is TAPE THE FUCK OUT OF IT! 100% success rate to date :D

To celebrate the encouragement of fair feedback, I will offer anyone who orders a 10-pack product from us a bonus of 5 capsules for the next 2 days. Make sure you quote  "Re: Leaving Sample Feedback" when you order to get the upgrade! We also have other offers going on til Wednesday. Mid-march is boring so we made a sale lol. Please leave fair feedback on your order and be sure to leave a feedback rating that is based objectively. If you don't enjoy a product but it definitely is the product as advertised that warrants a "Product was as advertised, but I didn't like that shit at all 5/5"
*4mg listings will soon be up and this offer will not apply to 4mg capsule listings, sorry!

SR is set up in a way that many people are exhausted after figuring out using Tor, PGP and BTC properly, and they don't bother doing research for feedback standard and similar info. Some information should be in a formal SR policy which recommends how feedback should be written/rated, and how the system works. Threads like these get many views but never enough, and there are always those who never come on our community here on SRF. Too bad.