Silk Road forums
Discussion => Security => Topic started by: TheNewDude on February 27, 2012, 04:32 am
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It seems like the DEA attempts to make huge busts and they'll likely attempt to make Silk Road out to be the biggest busts in history.
I'm a bit worried that they'll actually target buyers as well. I could see them doing this to simply jack up the arrest numbers.
Are my concerns unfounded? I've taken a lot of precautions, but I honestly don't know what the DEA is plotting. Would they likely target buyers, or just major vendors?
I know that they have busted online steroid vendors and obtained customer lists, but did they prosecute any buyers of personal amounts?
Are there any documented cases of sites being busted and customers being targeted as well as vendors? SR is probably the most IN YOUR FACE open drug market that I'm aware of... Is there anything from the past we can compare this to?
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probably....they r cunts like that
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Anyone could buy something and have it sent to you. Never forget that. Never admit anything or talk to the police. They don't care about anything but getting you arrested. It's their job.
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Anyone could buy something and have it sent to you. Never forget that. Never admit anything or talk to the police. They don't care about anything but getting you arrested. It's their job.
I know my rights. ;)
And I've taken more security measures than most of SR, I would assume.
I just want to learn from past events. At the moment, I'm assuming that everyone will be targeted. I just want to know if my worries are warranted. (past cases, investigations, arrests, etc)
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I dun have any knowledge of actually "online ring busting" on top of my head. But a good measure of paranoia is always warranted, even for small amounts buyers.
Maybe they're not primarily focusing on small-time buyers, but they sure do appreciate all the goodies they get to keep and use if they bust you. Dun forget, they get to keep almost everything they can link to the drug, be that your phone or your car or your stereo.
Auctioning off impounded shit is just another way the feds make money. Small-time buyers often forget that "aspect of motivation" for them to bust you. They also love keeping cars, so they can use them as undercover vehicles.
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Part of me just wants to call it quits and stop using this site because although it's easy as shit to use, it's illegal as fuck. You are trafficking drugs across state lines. That is a felony itself. Along with the drug charges (schedule 1 drugs carry up to 10 years if I remember correctly), it's just not worth the risk. It's hard to find certain things locally, especially in Small Town, USA. But I feel I'm safer stopping now than stopping later while the bust is going down. :'(
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I know that they have busted online steroid vendors and obtained customer lists, but did they prosecute any buyers of personal amounts?
Some US customers got visits but I don't know if there were prosecutions, somebody more plugged into the aas scene should be able to tell you (UK customers got arrested in operation ismene). There are some smart motherfuckers in the mail order steroid game and I'd bet that there's lots of people out there that know the answer to this.
Are there any documented cases of sites being busted and customers being targeted as well as vendors? SR is probably the most IN YOUR FACE open drug market that I'm aware of... Is there anything from the past we can compare this to?
dzf vendors and customers both got got, and that was a pretty in your face drug market too. Oh, and it was actually run by the FBI.
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Part of me just wants to call it quits and stop using this site because although it's easy as shit to use, it's illegal as fuck. You are trafficking drugs across state lines. That is a felony itself. Along with the drug charges (schedule 1 drugs carry up to 10 years if I remember correctly), it's just not worth the risk. It's hard to find certain things locally, especially in Small Town, USA. But I feel I'm safer stopping now than stopping later while the bust is going down. :'(
I feel the same way and frankly this frightens me as i aint trying to be in no cell! Someone should leak some dea info towards SR
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here's my thoughts on this...
I don't really think the DEA monitor SR as much we'd like to think. and here's why...
1. We represent the bottom tier of the industry - street level if you will - the DEA has bigger fish to fry i hope)(
2. It would cost A LOT of money to use federal agents to monitor SR and track down vendors and/or buyers, with little chances of making a conviction stick. There are so anonymizing factors here on SR any case against you would be highly circumstantial
3. Most drugs busts are executed by local law enforcement with the assistance from the DEA. Such narcotics units are notorous for having poor communication with other law enforment from other towns - mostly because what they do has to be done with utmost secrecy. And judging by how vast this market is, ranging from China to USA, it would be hard for federal agents to keep up with that level of communication required to coordinate one sr bust, let alone all the local/int'l governments involved :P
4. DEA would only come after a customer (someone truly buying for personal use only) to get his dealer. Here on SR, you couldn't snitch the dude out if you wanted to!
So again, it comes down to simple cost benefit analysis. It would cost $100,000's to make one arrest on SR worth at best a couple hundred bucks (?!) I'm just saying...
Therefore their best mode of attack [imo] wouldn't be to target individual buyers/sellers but rather to bring down the entire site in fell swoop...cut the head off the snake; and correct me if I'm wrong but isn't that what they're trying to do with all their bureaucratic, and quite frankly, intrusive legislation? I don't think that's been any secret either...
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Some vendors and customers on DZF got away, pretty sure customers were busted as well, and several vendors (mostly opiate vendors) were busted. I will ask a friend who followed DZF closer than I did, my personal policy was to stay the hell away. Most personal-use-ish customer busts I know of were the result of a package being intercepted, not a targeted operation.
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Are my concerns unfounded? I've taken a lot of precautions, but I honestly don't know what the DEA is plotting. Would they likely target buyers, or just major vendors?
Maybe you could become a confidential informant? Then you can use drugs and get a nice pay check. (Actually, I don't know how well they pay). Hopefully, your handler won't be too much of a bully low-life. (Though you may get passed around like a prison bitch). If you don't mind getting fucked by a moron and having a chimp in the driver's seat of your life, it might be a way to go.
Actually, that doesn't sound too good. If only there were another way...
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They will either use informants, mail surveillance, etc, to make sporadic busts here and there, or they will try to build a case on as many SR users as possible, and pounce when they have enough evidence to convict almost everyone that matters.
All of law enforcement, particularly the feds, is under pressure to bust not just SR, but all the mail order drug sites. Let's take a look at online pharmacies and other international drug suppliers. Why isn't the DEA busting them? I mean, they do, but they only go after one or two organizations at a time. Most of those guys know when to quit, so they simply make their money and disappear when the heat builds. I bet many of them go on to open new mail order drug businesses under different names, and that way it's so difficult to build a case against such entities. SR is something entirely different. No one really owns it, and its location (if it even has one, single physical location) is unknown; it's almost impossible to seize, and doing so would probably be a waste of time and resources in the long run.
Unless SR disappears and reopens under a different name again and again, I'd think that the feds would eventually do some damage. I don't know if they'll ever truly break the tor network on a large scale, but that isn't necessary for them to inflitrate this place to a sufficient degree. They may not even bust that many people, choosing to conduct a psyops campaign instead.
Think about it: if they create a bunch of fake identities on here and proceed to scam, lie, fuck with bitcoin, create paranoia, and screw the feedback system, then they won't have to actually arrest anyone. All they need to do is hire some informants who know how to sound legit, or they can use persona management software (thanks QTC) to flood this place with enough n00bs to cause people to quit from frustration. The war on drugs is more about controlling the flow rather than stopping it entirely. As long as they can make SR virtually useless to anyone but dedicated insiders, their job is done... usually.
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if they create a bunch of fake identities on here and proceed to scam, lie, fuck with bitcoin, create paranoia, and screw the feedback system, then they won't have to actually arrest anyone. All they need to do is hire some informants who know how to sound legit, or they can use persona management software (thanks QTC) to flood this place with enough n00bs to cause people to quit from frustration. The war on drugs is more about controlling the flow rather than stopping it entirely. As long as they can make SR virtually useless to anyone but dedicated insiders, their job is done... usually.
This.
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They will either use informants, mail surveillance, etc, to make sporadic busts here and there, or they will try to build a case on as many SR users as possible, and pounce when they have enough evidence to convict almost everyone that matters.
I've a bad feeling you're probably right.
As anonymous as SR might be, buyers are still sending their names and addresses to vendors. How difficult would it be for LE to set up a vendor account targeted at a particular domestic market, harvest names and addresses? How difficult would it be to spot? It's not like they couldn't also open endless number of seller accounts to bolster it and when real buyers don't get their illegal drugs or whatever then it would just look like a scam or incompetence. Meanwhile they've got a list of names and addresses of people who live in that country and buy a certain drug off Silk Road. You don't have to be a genius to think what they could do with that info.
Maybe I'm too paranoid, but best practice is to assume the police WILL kick in your door at any moment and have things arranged accordingly.
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If they set up a vendor account, that means they'll have to ship actual drugs through the mail and let people receive and use them. Otherwise, the most they can do is press some kind of BS conspiracy charges that aren't even worth prosecuting unless you're ordering some serious shit, which is something else entirely.
It would probably be easier for them to wait until a vendor slips up somehow and practically hands themselves over to them. They then convince him or her to become a CI, at which point the vendor would probably be allowed to go about their business under the direction and supervision of LE. Even that is pushing the edge though. Another member alluded to Fast & Furious once, and I agree that if they did that kind of shit before, they will do it again. However, they have to be extremely careful with the execution. If they fuck up again, let's just say consequences will never be the same. LOL
Personally, I doubt they are about to go to those lengths. At this time, there seem to be enough buyers and vendors getting caught every now and then via traditional police work. This, combined with bitcoins/tor/pgp and their relative complexities barring most dumbasses from this site might be keeping the feds from planning some sort of major intervention. Maybe they're passively watching the network or just inspecting the mail closer in certain areas, who knows? If you live in a populated area and know what you're doing, ordering or even selling on SR is probably safer than doing so locally, unless you're ordering fucking keys of coke--and even then I'd say there are some advantages.
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They will either use informants, mail surveillance, etc, to make sporadic busts here and there, or they will try to build a case on as many SR users as possible, and pounce when they have enough evidence to convict almost everyone that matters.
I realize you're pretty much agreeing with what I said, but...bear with me here...
first of all, I'd agree with you that they'd wait until they had a strong case before bringing everyone down...HOWEVER that type of stuff is typically reserved for cases relating to the RICO act, which SR is not an organized crime syndicate/'racket' but instead a p2p network. Those pharma companies and roid factories WERE crime syndicates. I also think that informants (police's bread n' butter) would be absolutly useless on SR because nobody could rat on another user if they wanted to. If they did they'd be chasing all the tentacles leading FROM SR, when they'd be better off just working the streets until they followed tentalcles that LEAD to SR.
Think about it: if they create a bunch of fake identities on here and proceed to scam, lie, fuck with bitcoin, create paranoia, and screw the feedback system, then they won't have to actually arrest anyone. All they need to do is hire some informants who know how to sound legit, or they can use persona management software (thanks QTC) to flood this place with enough n00bs to cause people to quit from frustration. The war on drugs is more about controlling the flow rather than stopping it entirely. As long as they can make SR virtually useless to anyone but dedicated insiders, their job is done... usually.
what informants? do you mean undercover agents? because they're not going to pay some non-agent to do it, that's for sure. lol. To add to that, once again, the cost of even a single agent to monitor this bullshit would enormous. My guess would be they have bot program that logs, stores, and sorts information.
Also, the war on drugs is NOT about controlling the flow, it's about numbers. DEA, just like every entity has costs associated. To recover those costs they need some form of revenue (trust they're required to keep a balanced budget). busts = revenues; bigger busts = bigger revenues + nice pat on the back for a job well done HAH!
BELIEVE ME, LE DOES NOT GIVE A FUCK ABOUT YOUR DRUGS -HELL MOST OF THEM ARE ON DRUGS!! - THE ONLY THING THEY CARE ABOUT IS THE SIZE OF THE BUST AND THE AMOUNT OF MONEY INVOLVED! They'll be the first to tell you this. That's why every drug bust is measured in $; they don't call it the fundraising arm for nuthin!
The flow of drugs will always be there with without the efforts of LE. All they're trying to do get their piece...
That said I think the biggest key to our saftey on SR, aside from the p2p thing, is the fact that we don't exchange any money in the traditional sense and when we do it gets washed so many damn there's no telling where the source originated. It's like that game, cups - where the dude moves all those cups around so fast that you can't keep track.
I found this article on the DEA webpage (http://www.justice.gov/dea/pubs/pressrel/pr042005.html) where the DEA talks about their success in taking down that pharma ring and in it they discuss the collaborative effort needed to bring it down. First Customs found packages, and once they began finding enough they reported it to the DEA. The DEA and ATF worked to gether to find the source. They took 1,000's of samples and cross referenced their ingredients to narrow it down by country. Then had to prove a crime was comiited and do so they say, "the link between where the money comes from, who gets it, when it is received, and where it is stored or deposited, can provide evidence that a crime was committed. Finding and connecting those links is what IRS brings to this cooperative effort.” From there they had to sieze and analyze bank records. then tehy had to prove that the members of the syndicate were in fact connected to each other (rico act). Then on top of all that they had to coordinate with int'l law enforcement to! I mean thats a lot of shit...especially if you substitute one the largest pharm rings in existance with some puny ass SR user!
p2p lending news said the following:
"Some have speculated that the Department of Justice could crackdown on exchanges, such as Mt. Gox, which allow individuals to purchase Bitcoins using real money. If the Department of Justice froze the accounts of Bitcoin exchanges, it would be very difficult for users to use the currency to make purchases. However, international Bitcoin exchanges would be outside of the reach of the Department of Justice, which means that users would still likely be able to exchange Bitcoins for other currencies.
It would be much more difficult for the federal government to try to crackdown on the actual peer-to-peer network which powers the Bitcoin currency. Bitcoin addresses are not linked to individuals by name or any other identifying information. Bitcoin is also not governed or facilitated by any central issuing authority, so as long as users continue to run the Bitcoin client, governments will not be able to eradicate the currency."
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if they create a bunch of fake identities on here and proceed to scam, lie, fuck with bitcoin, create paranoia, and screw the feedback system, then they won't have to actually arrest anyone. All they need to do is hire some informants who know how to sound legit, or they can use persona management software (thanks QTC) to flood this place with enough n00bs to cause people to quit from frustration. The war on drugs is more about controlling the flow rather than stopping it entirely. As long as they can make SR virtually useless to anyone but dedicated insiders, their job is done... usually.
This.
Then they'll have to do the same thing over and over because it's not hard to take like the first 1000s members and make another SR. Most private forums do the same thing.
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I wipe down all of my shipments so that they're somewhat forensically clean, in that they have no finger prints anywhere. I use no return addresses. If you are a paranoid seller there are totally steps you can take. Paranoid buyer? There aren't any addresses stockpiled here even if you send it in plain text, the risk isn't huge the way I see it. No-one can prove you have sent or ordered a shipment, you have to admit it! "No comment" is the way forward, never admit ANYTHING to police! "No comment no comment no comment", tell them nothing, admit nothing, exercise your right to silence and get legal advice (usually free) no matter what.
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^Being paranoid is the way to go. You should certainly be careful of fingerprints if you are a vendor as the postal inspectors are known to dust the entire package for prints, inside and out.
Some people do tend to over do it though, and end up forgetting crucial, basic stuff while building a faraday cage around their room and crafting tinfoil hats. An example is using the "Gutmann method" to wipe hard drivers or (lol) SSD media. You only need one overwrite using random data to destroy a file. There are no magic microscopes that can be used to recover it, unless it's a secret capability used on national security threats. Even then, they sure as hell can't use non-forensic, unstable data captures as evidence in a criminal trial, unless your cousin Vinny is representing you.
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SR is something entirely different. No one really owns it, and its location (if it even has one, single physical location) is unknown; it's almost impossible to seize, and doing so would probably be a waste of time and resources in the long run.
Why would you think this? I suspect it is probably centralized or a small network of collaborators. And I suspect the physical location of the machines could be determined if that were a priority.
I don't know if they'll ever truly break the tor network on a large scale, but that isn't necessary for them to inflitrate this place to a sufficient degree. They may not even bust that many people, choosing to conduct a psyops campaign instead.
Tor is probably off limits [for a large scale attack by a federal agency] but the technical aspects of p0wning this market doesn't seem out of reach for a reasonably skilled architect with a level of funding that is probably well within the budget of typical DEA operations. Some of the grunt work and project management could even be farmed out to Rent-a-Coder or wherever. The architect and operators could all remain completely anonymous, with milestone payments [to them] made [ironically] through SR.
Think about it: if they create a bunch of fake identities on here and proceed to scam, lie, fuck with bitcoin, create paranoia, and screw the feedback system, then they won't have to actually arrest anyone. All they need to do is hire some informants who know how to sound legit, or they can use persona management software (thanks QTC) to flood this place with enough n00bs to cause people to quit from frustration. The war on drugs is more about controlling the flow rather than stopping it entirely. As long as they can make SR virtually useless to anyone but dedicated insiders, their job is done... usually.
It would probably be better [for LE] to manage it, manipulate it and milk it. And, with decent tech[nique], I don't think it would have to be a huge operation.
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It's tough to say what their true capabilities are when it comes to SR. I've seen them royally fuck up the simplest investigations because they involved "sophisticated" (relative term) technology like this. The logistics and planning just weren't there. That was yesterday though; it's entirely possible that they are now funding the necessary training, etc. to go after emerging online darknet markets like SR. All this is relatively new to the public eye and thus the situation is hard to predict, but if enough pressure is on them to do something, they have the raw capital alone to get something done. Any political interns out there with connections to certain senators? lol
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I imagine there are competent consultants and contractors available to develop and operate the various intelligence gathering/analysis technology and political/psychological manipulation techniques sufficient to manage this market. All LE needs to do is authorize the project, sign the paychecks and assign some agents to receive the intel [and act on it appropriately].
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I imagine there are competent consultants and contractors available to develop and operate the various intelligence gathering/analysis technology and political/psychological manipulation techniques sufficient to manage this market. All LE needs to do is authorize the project, sign the paychecks and assign some agents to receive the intel [and act on it appropriately].
whoa...I'd never considered that :o you're so right! I don't know if that's what they do, but if they did then they'd probably be funded by the DOD, which I'm sure does NOT run a balanced budget...
still im not sure what would they do with that info though? Once again, police are notorious for having poor inter-agency communications and for that reason alone coordinating an SR bust would be a logistical nightmare even if they had valuable info! Plus it'd still be a lot of resources all for a street level bust that's going nowhere...just my opinion
watch what you say, be careful who you give address to, and use thoroughly washed btc's and you should be good imo
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^Being paranoid is the way to go.
This can't be said enough.
Sometimes I wish there was a webpage which listed some of the more infamous stings (ie Operation Web Tryp, Operation Julie etc) and what LE did. Never assume they're all dumb or that situation X is unlikely. If it's possible and legal then assume they do it, if it's possible and illegal they probably do it as well. If you're wrong, so what. If you're right..
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Just keep in mind they are "opportunistic predators". They just sit somewhere close to the waterhole waiting for an opportunity. Just because they dun have a "Operation SR Command Center" around the corner dun mean they're not there.
I think most stings come together by opportune tidbits of data falling together, not targeted investigation. Of course afterwards they will proudly tell how they prepared for 18 months, when in fact it's more like after becoming aware of something in months 3 6 9 and 16 they got lucky, skimmed some info somehow, and finally it became enough to connect a few dots.
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Tor is probably off limits [for a large scale attack by a federal agency] but the technical aspects of p0wning this market doesn't seem out of reach for a reasonably skilled architect with a level of funding that is probably well within the budget of typical DEA operations. Some of the grunt work and project management could even be farmed out to Rent-a-Coder or wherever. The architect and operators could all remain completely anonymous, with milestone payments [to them] made [ironically] through SR.
I think they would be hesitant to do so for diplomatic reasons, however. Tor is partially funded by the US State Department since it allows e.g. Iranian dissidents to communicate anonymously. Given its legitimate (to the gov't) uses, I don't see them compromising it any time soon.
Bitcoin, on the other hand, is a much more likely target. Someone like Palantir is probably already mapping out the blockchain for intelligence purposes. While Bitcoin also has legitimate uses in the commercial sector, it provides no direct benefit to the government itself, and I think they would be happy to see it go away.
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HOWEVER that type of stuff is typically reserved for cases relating to the RICO act, which SR is not an organized crime syndicate/'racket' but instead a p2p network.
SR actually meets every single requirement to be charged under the RICO act, and as far as the DEA or government are concerned, SR is a drug trafficking organization and a drug syndicate:
Under RICO, a person who is a member of an enterprise that has committed any two of 35 crimes—27 federal crimes and 8 state crimes—within a 10-year period can be charged with racketeering.
Rico requires at least two of the following offenses (incomplete list):
illegal gambling (check)
drug trafficking (check)
murder
kidnapping
extortion
arson
robbery
bribery
obscene matter
money laundering (check)
terrorism
criminal copyright infringement (check)
embezzelment
financial fraud
obstruction of justice (which using proxy and encryption programs HAS been determined to be, check)
counterfeiting (check, fake ID are counterfeits)
theft
fraud (check, mail fraud)
to be carried out within ten years of each other by the same group of people, in a pattern as defined as "have the same or similar purposes, results, participants, victims, or methods of commission, or otherwise are interrelated by distinguishing characteristics and are not isolated events."
SR is overly qualified to be charged as a RICO organization.
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^Being paranoid is the way to go. You should certainly be careful of fingerprints if you are a vendor as the postal inspectors are known to dust the entire package for prints, inside and out.
Some people do tend to over do it though, and end up forgetting crucial, basic stuff while building a faraday cage around their room and crafting tinfoil hats. An example is using the "Gutmann method" to wipe hard drivers or (lol) SSD media. You only need one overwrite using random data to destroy a file. There are no magic microscopes that can be used to recover it, unless it's a secret capability used on national security threats. Even then, they sure as hell can't use non-forensic, unstable data captures as evidence in a criminal trial, unless your cousin Vinny is representing you.
Plus they will just pull data from the edge of the track if you don't use the Secure Erase firmware that lets you put the head slightly off track
edit: Said it was debated if single pass was enough, but it seems there has been some definitive forensic research done on this that has essentially officially determined that one pass is enough. Last time I did much research on this, there were people in the forensics community who argued both ways. Now I can find test results that show who was correct :P. I guess it is note worthy that the department of defense still does not consider data wipes to be enough to sanitize a drive, requiring complete degaussing and physical destruction.
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Tor is probably off limits [for a large scale attack by a federal agency] but the technical aspects of p0wning this market doesn't seem out of reach for a reasonably skilled architect with a level of funding that is probably well within the budget of typical DEA operations. Some of the grunt work and project management could even be farmed out to Rent-a-Coder or wherever. The architect and operators could all remain completely anonymous, with milestone payments [to them] made [ironically] through SR.
I think they would be hesitant to do so for diplomatic reasons, however. Tor is partially funded by the US State Department since it allows e.g. Iranian dissidents to communicate anonymously. Given its legitimate (to the gov't) uses, I don't see them compromising it any time soon.
Bitcoin, on the other hand, is a much more likely target. Someone like Palantir is probably already mapping out the blockchain for intelligence purposes. While Bitcoin also has legitimate uses in the commercial sector, it provides no direct benefit to the government itself, and I think they would be happy to see it go away.
It would be a useful tool to pay intelligence sources who prefer to stay anonymous.
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SR actually meets every single requirement to be charged under the RICO act, and as far as the DEA or government are concerned, SR is a drug trafficking organization and a drug syndicate:
Could The Armory be considered as something in the Terrorism category?
It would be a useful tool to pay intelligence sources who prefer to stay anonymous.
There are private military corporations. I suppose there could be private NSA/cyber-command type corporations. Are there any tech-heavies interested in a mercenary gig?
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There are tons of private intelligence agencies. Janes is the first that comes to mind, but there are certainly others that do more interesting things than OSINT analysis. Most serious organized crime groups have their own intelligence units, often having members/leaders who were trained by national military intelligence services. In fact a characteristic of a phase III smuggling enterprise is sophisticated intelligence and counter intelligence operations, as well as having connections to legitimate national intelligence services (phase II organizations begin to practice rudimentary intelligence and counter intelligence, but their intelligence people lack the sophistication, connections and training of phase III organizations...also phase II smuggling enterprises often don't have a specific group compartment dedicated to intelligence)
Most major corporations have their own intelligence and counter intelligence wings as well, although they are technically limited by certain laws to mostly doing OSINT (at least in USA, although this doesn't mean that corporations always follow the law). Corporate espionage is a huge industry.
Wikileaks is essentially an intelligence agency (although they take measures in an attempt to prevent themselves being classified as such), they have gathered data (or obtained data gathered) via OSINT, COMINT and HUMINT operations at the very least, and they use counter intelligence tools to protect themselves from SIGINT, COMINT etc etc
Stratfor is apparently a private HUMINT agency according to the info Wikileaks has released on them: www.christianpost.com/ news/ wikileaks-exposes-stratfor-intelligence-agency-releases-5-million-ema ils-70350/
there are also cliques of leet hackers who sell zero day exploits to the highest bidders (usually intelligence agencies). I imagine they also gather intelligence themselves on occasion, information is very valuble just as much as the tools to obtain it are. I have heard of underground communities on the internet that trade in intelligence, including trade secrets of corporations etc.
RBN is a cyber crime group that has provided services to Russian intelligence. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Business_Network
They also offer bullet proof hosting, good luck getting an RBN hosted server taken down even if you manage to get its IP address.
The people behind Ghostnet probably sold intelligence to the Chinese government: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GhostNet
There are private military corporations. I suppose there could be private NSA/cyber-command type corporations. Are there any tech-heavies interested in a mercenary gig?
Even if you ignore private intelligence services, Bitcoin would be a useful tool for paying intelligence sources. Look at Robert Hanssen: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Hanssen
He obtained payment from and gave information to the Russians via dead drops. Keeping his identity secret from the Russians was important to him (although I am pretty sure he failed at it). There are plenty of other potential intelligence sources who wouldn't even risk picking up dead drops of cash for their services, knowing that it could be a sting or it could be monitored by the agency they are selling the information to (after all if the agency knows who passed them data, they can demand more data to be passed and refuse payment, instead threatening to reveal that they are spies. It would be entirely realistic for a HUMINT agency to retain their asset via blackmail over finanical payment). Getting payment via mixed Bitcoins would be a potentially smart strategy for such a spy, and it would be smart for a HUMINT agency to offer payment in a way that they can prove it anonymous.
Also look at the Russian spy network busted in USA in 2010 : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illegals_Program
One of their main functions was laundering cash for the Russian intelligence services. They would potentially have been smarter to use mixed bitcoins, after all then there wouldn't be surveillance videos of them passing bags filled of cash. Brush passes < Digital mixing.
There is a reason that the CIA wanted to learn as much as they could about Bitcoin from fairly early on:
www.bitcoinblogger.com/ 2011/ 04/ bitcoin-technical-lead-to-present-at.html
It is potentially very useful for them, just as much as Tor is.
I'm just afraid that analysis of the block chain will end up being useful for FININT since I don't think people are taking the required precautions with bitcoin, instead thinking that it is inherently anonymous (or that using mixes will not get them watched and/or charged with money laundering if they don't take some steps to cash out anonymously also).
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You guys don't remember a few months ago the CIA admitted to allowing the biggest most violent drug cartel the Sinaloa cartel and Chapo Guzman the biggest drug lord in the world to smuggle drugs into the US for intelligence on other cartels. Just google it. It was all over CNN and big news channels. The ATF about a few moths ago also admitted to putting tracking devices and sending guns to Mexico to kill people. It was an obvious fail and the news bashed them for doing it. The government agencies can and will do shady shit.
Who knows if SR was actually invented by FBI or the CIA because they realized that online drug dealing was the way of the future and they figured why not create the largest online drug dealing site to eventually take it's vendors and buyers down to scare off any online sites. SR has only been around for a year or so no.... Seems like it would be a smart plan. What if they did create it and really there is no tumbler system just straight up evidence to track all sales and vendors down... crazy conspiracy, I know but not so far fetched. That being said I still feel it's safe around here more so than f2f selling.
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What if they did create it and really there is no tumbler system just straight up evidence to track all sales and vendors down... crazy conspiracy, I know but not so far fetched.
except that if you watch the coins you put in... they keep moving after they've made it into your account.
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What if they did create it and really there is no tumbler system just straight up evidence to track all sales and vendors down... crazy conspiracy, I know but not so far fetched.
except that if you watch the coins you put in... they keep moving after they've made it into your account.
The type of mixing system that SR uses, offers no protection if the mix itself is owned by an attacker. If you are relying on the SR mix you should be crossing your fingers anyway.
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Ok guys..
1. The DEA does not care about people doing drugs. So they are not going 2 bust this site for some noble cause. The war on drugs is NOT a war whose purpose is to prevent drug use.
The purpose of the war on drugs is to provide jobs and protect established corporate and religious interests. Think of all the LE and prison guards who would be out of job if drugs were legalized. Think about all the parole and probation officers. Think about all the people who work at rehabilitation facilities. Think of all the judges and DA's. Think of the people who train drug dogs. Think of the people who make drug tests. Think of the pharmaceutical industry. Think of all of the drug money that the federal government seizes. The war on drugs is directly responsible for *a lot* of peoples jobs and to prevent competition to established corporate interests. And religious people just think it is satanic. So today, largely the war on drugs is about money and religion. It still has a large discriminatory aspect to it as well, but I would argue less so today than in the past. And of course it gives the government more powers.
The primary reason we avoid the DEA is because the DEA doesnt want us or is already working on us. If the DEA wants SR it will have it.
DEA has publicly announced that it has an on going investigation into SR. You don't have high rankin government officials write letters to the head of the DEA asking them to shut down SR as soon as possible, without having some operation come out of it. There is a 0% chance that some people on SR will not be arrested for their participation on SR, and imo most of them will be customers simply because how are they going to get a vendor who follows proper security protocols?
A great secondary factor is that drug quantities sold, at least in public are small amounts. However, the first lets say 10 SR sellers would be worth the DEAs time.
The majority of people in prison over drugs are in prison for personal use amounts. Their incarceration is quite profitable for the government.
The DEA are crazy law breaking men with no ethics that are allowed to do almost anything they want for any amount of drugs. But no other countries drug police are like the US DEA. No other drug unit in the world would really want to go after SR and honestly the DEA would end up either getting minimal support or paying for their assistance.
Interpol has been the agency that focuses on internet related drug crime for a long time. It is quite naive to assume that the DEA will need to jump through many hoops to get the full support of Interpol and all of its member countries. Although of course USA is the country with the most major hard on for SR.
The most at danger are top ranked US vendors.
Maybe, but they should also be the most secure. It is also possible that the most at danger are those most easily pwnt, and that is more likely to be customers than vendors, since customers need to give a shipping address.
6. The same day people on this site piss off the right person, DEA agent, FBI, president, whoever has enough powder and is bored....we will see action taken.
I think we will see action soon enough. Targeted operations are generally run for fairly standardized amounts of time, 3 months, 6 months, 12 months, 18 months, 24 months, etc, before they simultaneously move in on the identified targets. The other type of operation they do is dragnet, in those cases they tend to be more reactive, ie; they move in on the target when they randomly intercept a package addressed to the target after doing dragnet mail screening.
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{"that feels good, I want more!" + "i'm all important, don't tell me what to do!"} * chemical amplification = bias and distortion.
not that your crackpipe-googles view of the world isn't funny.
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...the DEA doesnt want us or is already working on us. If the DEA wants SR it will have it.
Respectively: no; you'd be deluded to think otherwise (or you're brilliantly establishing a pattern for SOX? no); deferred but I don't think that's a certainty if you mean the org itself.
I don't know what LE does amongst themselves, but in the harm-reduction world, LE brings up SR at every single presentation in the harm-reduction medical-LE-legislative interface. Probably because a screenshot makes for a good slide.
But no other countries drug police are like the US DEA. No other drug unit in the world would really want to go after SR and honestly the DEA would end up either getting minimal support or paying for their assistance.
Paying for their assistance is hardly a problem, nor is it even a DEA-only issue. Interpol is the agency associated with the online market, as kfm pointed out. Domestic/international: feh. It's relevant for nice old-fashioned constitutionally based agencies like USPS at times (no opening the first class mail without the due process.) But there's no reason for them to restrict themselves to US.
Speaking of international, ICE/DHS is very very active these days. Go look at the fusion centers (http://epic.org/privacy/fusion/); I'm itching to know what goes through there now because they are mentioned tangentially in a couple things I've been following.
The same day people on this site piss off the right person, DEA agent, FBI, president, whoever has enough powder and is bored....we will see action taken.
People are already pissed off.
Action's been taken around the fringes.
The planned-duration sting is a pretty well-established tradition, for reasons as earlier.
LE involved have a lot longer to gather information and make connections that they can use for years to come.
This would be a sting with -relatively low- direct daily threat (as I see it - am I wrong?) to the LE involved in low-level buys. So it could be strung out for a long time. The sales themselves aren't that big a worry, let's face it - consensual crime is not going to get people as upset if allowed to continue in the service of a LE operation, unlike shadowcrew, in which theft was the issue (and how long was that allowed to continue?)
Me, I'd give the concerned senators some placating efforts and show some man-hours, then leave everything well enough alone as a source of market information / trending, as a source of potential informants, and a source of entry into the scene/identity building. Easy to justify it that way. Nice practice ground, etc.
Plus this is as close as they get to having drug Facebook, I think.
But it is visible enough there may be too much social pressure to do something.
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{"that feels good, I want more!" + "i'm all important, don't tell me what to do!"} * chemical amplification = bias and distortion.
not that your crackpipe-googles view of the world isn't funny.
Hopefully your distorted view of reality doesn't come crashing down at the same time as your door does.
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{"that feels good, I want more!" + "i'm all important, don't tell me what to do!"} * chemical amplification = bias and distortion.
not that your crackpipe-googles view of the world isn't funny.
Hopefully your distorted view of reality doesn't come crashing down at the same time as your door does.
All these post have left me feeling queasy:/ Thanks kerfkewm! Just kidding:) its like this wise old man once sang (Neil Young) "And there's nothing like a friend! To tell you your just pissing in the wind" hmmmm? Whoever leaves last turn off the lights?
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{"that feels good, I want more!" + "i'm all important, don't tell me what to do!"} * chemical amplification = bias and distortion.
not that your crackpipe-googles view of the world isn't funny.
The math is funny and I have to wonder how many speeders blew right past the punctuation and didn't get it but who doesn't have a tunnel vision of limited knowledge and limited understanding and bias and desire and personal preference?