Silk Road forums
Discussion => Shipping => Topic started by: zdish on March 08, 2012, 02:41 am
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So I can kind of kick myself for doing it, but I was provided with a DCN when my product shipped and I was told not to look up the shipment over the Tor network because it could trigger a flag. So I looked it up on my regular browser, without Tor enabled and then almost cursed myself. I know that the likelihood of LE even noticing my domestic shipment of a very small amount of drugs is slim, but I'm not going to be stupid and assume it's impossible.
So I've been thinking all day, if LE can find out who tracked the package by searching the IP, would that not totally screw you over in terms of plausible deniability?
LE: Were you expecting this package full of drugs?
Me: No. I haven't been expecting any packages
LE: Then why was this shipment's tracking number searched on a computer at your residence?
Me: *scared shitless blank stare*
Of course I would not answer questions without an attorney's direction, but that aside... Maybe there's something I'm not thinking of, but I feel like it that's about how it would go.
Also, how true is it that searching a DCN through the Tor network will flag the corresponding shipment?
Anyone have answers/thoughts on this?
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if it's domestic. and any thing the puppy police are trained to sniff out is vacuum sealed, then i really wouldn't fret it bro. a gazillion people check their DCN every day.
and i've yet to see any proof of the vast amounts of IT folks (who would most likely anyways currently be in the process of being laid off due to budget cuts at the usps) but who otherwise spend their days searching thru logs, actively scrutinizing the ip's of the living dead checking their dcn's online every single day, and then hunting down those suspected of using...gasp!...TORRR!!!!!
just sayin'...sa'll good..
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I know a few people who have been arrested for getting stuff in the mail (all by local LEO, not federal). None of these people were tracking stuff through TOR, so I can't speak for USPS snatching a package that was tracked on TOR. Every time that someone I know has been busted it has been from smell, leaking liquids, snitches, etc. When it came to the investigations, not once did anyone ever look into whether or not these people had actually tried to track the package online.
Also, the state attorney's aren't given the kind of budget for simple drug cases to start digging as deep as our paranoia does. This is why you just STFU if something does happen and you are in a situation where you get caught getting something in the mail. Make them prove you paid for it and asked to have it shipped.
If you are really that worried you can just take your laptop to a public wifi access point and track it there.
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thats the thing. domestically. the 'most likely' agencies that would ever initiate an online investigation of any kind, tho likely in conjunction with local agencies, are the feds. and possibly the postal inspection service.
most busts like you mention are tipped off by a slip-up in the "real world" or a snitch..so if you can cover those bases in the real world, then do your best not to get urself under investigation by alphabet soup. be as invisible as possible. imo.
but OP, really don't worry bout it. ur good to go... :)
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if it's domestic. and any thing the puppy police are trained to sniff out is vacuum sealed, then i really wouldn't fret it bro. a gazillion people check their DCN every day.
and i've yet to see any proof of the vast amounts of IT folks (who would most likely anyways currently be in the process of being laid off due to budget cuts at the usps) but who otherwise spend their days searching thru logs, actively scrutinizing the ip's of the living dead checking their dcn's online every single day, and then hunting down those suspected of using...gasp!...TORRR!!!!!
just sayin'...sa'll good..
do you really think that humans go looking through log files lololololol
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One of the reasons is because TOR uses IPs from all over the world. It would be kind of strange for it to pop up that someone in Europe has an interest in a domestic US>US package....
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thats the thing. domestically. the 'most likely' agencies that would ever initiate an online investigation of any kind, tho likely in conjunction with local agencies, are the feds. and possibly the postal inspection service.
most busts like you mention are tipped off by a slip-up in the "real world" or a snitch..so if you can cover those bases in the real world, then do your best not to get urself under investigation by alphabet soup. be as invisible as possible. imo.
but OP, really don't worry bout it. ur good to go... :)
postal inspectors ARE feds.
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Yes - there are vendors on here who subscribe to the belief that LE monitors USPS tracking traces - that is COMPLETE fiction.
You can track your package from Tor all day long, again and again, and it will have NO influence on anything - tracking data is logged and monitored, lol. Paranoia isn't always a bad thing, it can help keep us safe, but the notion that Law Enforcement monitors, analyzes, and stores tracking data is ridiculous . . .
You have nothing worry about - track your package however you wish.
That said - I DO track my packages with TOR enabled, using a website called packagemapping.com . . .
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Thantos is retarded if he thinks that it wouldn't be trivial for LE to get a list of every single shipping address tied to a pack that was checked with Tor. He is also retarded if he thinks that the set of shipping addresses that are tied to tracking being checked with Tor don't recieve drug packages in larger % than the entire set of shipping addresses that have tracked packs sent to them. For example, my grandma doesn't check her tracking with Tor and doesn't order drug packages, THANTOS orders drug packages and checks his tracking with Tor. Ancedotal evidence in this case but easy to extralopate.
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if it's domestic. and any thing the puppy police are trained to sniff out is vacuum sealed, then i really wouldn't fret it bro. a gazillion people check their DCN every day.
and i've yet to see any proof of the vast amounts of IT folks (who would most likely anyways currently be in the process of being laid off due to budget cuts at the usps) but who otherwise spend their days searching thru logs, actively scrutinizing the ip's of the living dead checking their dcn's online every single day, and then hunting down those suspected of using...gasp!...TORRR!!!!!
just sayin'...sa'll good..
do you really think that humans go looking through log files lololololol
slow down. and re-read my post before commenting bro...that's the exact opposite of what i said, lol..
and nobody here is 'retarded'. that many times. or at all...
peace
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Thanks you guys for all the input.
I know I'm a little paranoid as I'm new to SR. Mainly, my objective is to be as safe as possible and keep myself informed rather than ignorant..
I guess what it comes down to is that there is no proof than LE looks at WHO tracked a package that was identified as having illegal substances in it, nor that USPS pays attention to whether any package is tracked on the Tor network. So from that, it's safe to say that it's not something to spend too much time dwelling on.
The idea had just occurred to me and I had not seen this question posed in any threads so far, so I figured it wouldn't be a bad idea to bring it up and get some experienced peoples' thoughts on the matter. But since no one has heard of this ever being used in a case against someone, I won't worry.
Having said that though, I don't think it's really that far fetched to assume that if they wanted to, LE could use an IP trace as evidence. It's just a matter of how much they care in each unique instance, or if they conceive of doing it. It really isn't hard to trace an IP.
Oh and it was indeed the vendor I ordered from who told me the package would be flagged if I tracked it using Tor.
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ouch! negative karma.. :(
but using tor in general is just not something the average user/customer on SR has to worry about 'too' much imo. if your a vendor? an entirely different set of concerns and circumstances obviously..
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if it's domestic. and any thing the puppy police are trained to sniff out is vacuum sealed, then i really wouldn't fret it bro. a gazillion people check their DCN every day.
and i've yet to see any proof of the vast amounts of IT folks (who would most likely anyways currently be in the process of being laid off due to budget cuts at the usps) but who otherwise spend their days searching thru logs, actively scrutinizing the ip's of the living dead checking their dcn's online every single day, and then hunting down those suspected of using...gasp!...TORRR!!!!!
just sayin'...sa'll good..
do you really think that humans go looking through log files lololololol
slow down. and re-read my post before commenting bro...that's the exact opposite of what i said, lol..
and nobody here is 'retarded'. that many times. or at all...
peace
You said you have yet to see proof of IT workers who spend their days searching through mail tracking logs looking for addresses that have had packs to them checked with Tor. I don't see how else to interpret this other than you think that humans would be the ones searching through logs. In reality the logs would just be intersected with a database of all known Tor exits (and other proxy services) and a third database would be created listing 'suspicious' packages and addresses.
Seriously if you work at customs and your job is to check some % of incoming mail, do you think they will have more luck if they check random packs or if they focus on packs that they know had the tracking checked with Tor?
Yes many people here are retarded multiple times :(
The difference between retardation and intelligence is often as simple as the difference between a . and a ?
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Having said that though, I don't think it's really that far fetched to assume that if they wanted to, LE could use an IP trace as evidence. It's just a matter of how much they care in each unique instance, or if they conceive of doing it. It really isn't hard to trace an IP.
I think it is far fetched to assume that LE will not use Tor checking tracking as a red flag that the package has contraband in it, considering how easy it is to check IP logs from package tracking.
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You said you have yet to see proof of IT workers who spend their days searching through mail tracking logs looking for addresses that have had packs to them checked with Tor. I don't see how else to interpret this other than you think that humans would be the ones searching through logs.
exactly. i said i have yet to see ANY proof of "those" people searching thru logs. therefore, like you, i feel they do not exist. like santa clause. it's pretty clear. :)
Yes many people here are retarded multiple times :(
yes, but not the user in question. or his points. right or wrong, they were valid and not unreasonable. imo.
he pretty much agreed with you too, btw.
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You said you have yet to see proof of IT workers who spend their days searching through mail tracking logs looking for addresses that have had packs to them checked with Tor. I don't see how else to interpret this other than you think that humans would be the ones searching through logs.
exactly. i said i have yet to see ANY proof of "those" people searching thru logs. therefore, like you, i feel they do not exist. like santa clause. it's pretty clear. :)
You either talk in extremely unclear ways or think I am stupid enough to think that you actually meant to convey the information you are claiming that you meant to convey. Your post implied that you don't think any checking of logs happens because you have not heard of humans manually digging through and cross referencing IP data from tracking sites with Tor exit nodes.
yes, but not the user in question. or his points. right or wrong, they were valid and not unreasonable. imo.
Thantos is retarded because he says things like
Yes - there are vendors on here who subscribe to the belief that LE monitors USPS tracking traces - that is COMPLETE fiction.
This is a statement that he can not verify. He essentially came to this conclusion in his own mind, using faulty logic, and then concluded that since he thought it it must be absolute truth. This is a retarded thought process and comes to a retarded conclusion.
You can track your package from Tor all day long, again and again, and it will have NO influence on anything - tracking data is logged and monitored, lol. Paranoia isn't always a bad thing, it can help keep us safe, but the notion that Law Enforcement monitors, analyzes, and stores tracking data is ridiculous . . .
Now he makes a conclusion based off of his other fantasy conclusion. Since he thought up the notion that LE does not screen for packages that have had tracking checked with Tor, he has come to the conclusion that it is safe to check tracking with Tor.
He then makes the extremely retarded claim that it is ridiculous to think that law enforcement monitors, analyzes or stores tracking data. Well, tracking websites certainly monitor the act of checking tracking at least to the extent that their web server is surely keeping IP logs. The IP logs from tracking are certainly stored for some period of time. Why wouldn't they be? Almost every website on the internet keeps IP logs for an indefinite period of time. Analysis of these logs looking for Tor exit nodes that have checked tracking is trivial and the tools to analyze log files in such ways are already out there, some are even specific to Tor for fucks sake and others include massive lists of known proxy servers in addition to Tor. This statement by him really puts him over the retardation threshold level.
Also maybe using your twisted logic he agrees with me, but to me it seems like he is saying the exact opposite of what I am saying.
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Has anyone ever thought of the genius idea to simply check the DCN on a computer at the local library lol?
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justawow... :(
but yes john, i often recommend using a public comp or better yet off-camera, public wifi or otherwise anonymous hot-spot w/MAC spoofing to check ur dcn if ur concerned about using tor to do so. but again, i wouldn't be too concerned myself....