Silk Road forums
Discussion => Shipping => Topic started by: chad736 on February 11, 2012, 08:04 am
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I've tried to read most of the post on shipping, but still can't seem to find this question..... Will the postman or whoever delivers the mail be tipped off in the case of a controlled delivery?
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They will not use the same postman 9/10
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That's interesting. Do you by chance know the reason why? Is it an undercover LE?
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That's interesting. Do you by chance know the reason why? Is it an undercover LE?
Generally it depends on if your mail comes VIA mail truck to the end of your driveway or they walk to your door. If they walk to your door it would probably be the same, but drivers change routes sometimes so. I just write return to sender on all my mail i think is from SR and let it set for an hour then I drive it away to its final resting place (my body)
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That's interesting. Do you by chance know the reason why? Is it an undercover LE?
Because they likely have no desire or right to put an innocent postal worker in a potentially dangerous situation.
Last thing they need is a news story about a postman getting shot 5 times in the face while doing a controlled delivery for them.
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I don't think they will ever have the postman do a CD, they are not even law enforcement. Sometimes it is LE disguised as a postman. Sometimes they pretend to be a neighbor and say it was delivered to them, then ask if it is yours. Sometimes they do covert surveillance on you, wait for you to get the pack, and then raid you half an hour later. Sometimes they pull you over the next day when you are leaving your house (only heard of this happening once). I have also heard of several cases where they don't do a CD and your pack just doesn't show up, then eventually you get a knock on your door and postal inspectors interrogate you. Sometimes your pack doesn't show up and one day you wake up with your door on the floor and a gun in your face. I am not sure how they decide to go about it, but they have several techniques. I would think they would always try to get you to sign for it, but this is not always the case. One person I know in Australia never even saw the package until he was in court, he got an early morning raid while he was still waiting for it to be delivered.
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In the US the controlled delivery is often done by a postal inspector, so if you know your mail persons' usual day off you will have an idea. They can also put a tracker in the package so they know where it's at & if it has been opened. Global Drug Enforcement Practical Investigative Techniques is a very interesting book.
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I actually have a 'friend' whom this happened to. It was about 8 years ago now. He was having a rather large package delivered that was identified at the outgoing airport (sent overnight, don't think they scrutinize those less). The DEA called ahead to the local PD to let them know that the package would be coming and was contraband. The main thing that tipped off my friend is that the package wasn't delivered in time, and was held up in the tracking system...the controlled delivery was done by an officer in a USPS uniform. It wasn't supposed to be signed for yet the occupant at the house was MADE to sign for it. She told the 'postal worker' that there was no one by that name and no one was expecting a package. The officer was very rude and told her to take and sign for it even though it was denied.
About 2 minutes after the package was delivered a task force rushed the house. They came in through both doors, about 20 of them. My friend was out taking care of other things when he got a call saying he needed to come home asap. He immediately knew what was up especially with the lateness of the pack. He then left his friend with 10k in case he needed bail (he did) and went to the home.
Once there the pigs proceeded to toss his house. They never opened the box, and he denied any knowledge of the box whatsoever. He did claim anything already in the house so as to protect the other person. Once in the task force headquarters he refused to sign anything relating to the seizure and was put in jail. Being a nice cooperative person (they didn't really get mad for not spilling his guts, fuck the police) They set his bond at only 50k. It could have been 250k. based on the evidence found (thats personal, maybe for another day, it wasn't small cookies). He bonded out a few hours later.
Long story short: Everything was thrown out. The warrant was deemed unconstitutional and here's why: The judge signed a warrant to enter the house based on drugs being delivered BEFORE the drugs were there. Let's say the package was delivered at 4:30. The warrant was signed at 1:00. The package in question was not in the house yet, you cannot get a warrant based on what may happen, just what has already happened. No drugs already there, no warrant.
9 felonies wiped. $50k legal fees. 6 hours jail.
This was not a small package. If you're getting a quarter of weed you're not going to have a problem. This was interstate trafficking. keep it small, be careful, and you will never have to deal with it. If you do, see what time the warrant was signed. If they have that warrant early it is invalid.
Hope this helps. My friend spend a lot on legal fees and it took a year of sweating bullets to get off this. He is truly lucky. His last plea with the DA was 60 mos- 9 felonies, they add as many as possible and get some to stick. The package contained 4oz of old school shard mdma...the softball sized rock stuff we all miss.
EDIT: The name on the package wasn't the name of an occupant. The name on the package has no bearing. If you are receiving a package at your address it is YOUR ADDRESS. They don't give a fuck, that's the oldest trick in the book. You live there, your drugs. Less than zero chance of arguing (but it wasn't mine!) It's yours in the eyes of the law. So like the vendors say, use your name.
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In the only controlled delivery I personally am aware of, plain clothes local law enforcement showed up at the door with the package and begun interrogation immediately. Since there was no warrant and they had no right to do this, the person receiving the delivery would have been fine - except when the cops showed up, they shit themselves and immediately confessed to everything, thinking that would help them out. Ended up incurring thousands in legal fees and a lengthy felony probation.
The moral of the story is, of course, don't talk to the fucking pigs. They don't give a fuck if what they're doing is illegal or unconstitutional. If they get you to confess or incriminate yourself in any way, that's all they need.
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It wasn't supposed to be signed for yet the occupant at the house was MADE to sign for it.
lol tip off right there. You don't have to sign for mail like that ever. That's like me telling you, you have to take this car that I just stole. Sorta. You know what I mean.
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One person I know in Australia never even saw the package until he was in court, he got an early morning raid while he was still waiting for it to be delivered.
On behalf of all Aussies here is there any more information you can give on this situation?
Was it related to SR? What drug was involved? Was it personal quantities? Was it a local or international delivery? Who did the raid (local or feds)?
And most of all what was the outcome of it all?
We could all learn a lot from situations such as these.
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If I got a note to pick pay one of the better looker homeless people 50-100 to pick it up. I have done this in the past to get PO Boxes, but now dont bother, only a personal use buyer.
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I really don't know how a controlled delivery would actually be handled, it probably varies from state to state, country to country. But I am highly suspicious of the claim, often repeated here on SR, that if you just refuse to sign for your package the cop posing as a mailman will just walk away. That's just too easy. It sounds like the old myth that an undercover cop must tell you he's a cop if you ask him.
If the postal inspectors find narcotics in mail that's addressed to an address where you pick up, you better hope they just toss your package because they feel it's too much trouble to make a case against you.
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One person I know in Australia never even saw the package until he was in court, he got an early morning raid while he was still waiting for it to be delivered.
On behalf of all Aussies here is there any more information you can give on this situation?
Was it related to SR? What drug was involved? Was it personal quantities? Was it a local or international delivery? Who did the raid (local or feds)?
And most of all what was the outcome of it all?
We could all learn a lot from situations such as these.
It was on a private forum about six years ago. It was near personal use amounts, I can't remember exactly what the order was but something like half a sheet of acid 5 grams of MDMA and 5 grams of ketamine. It was shipped in a DVD container. I am pretty sure it was feds who raided him, at least it was not the normal local Australian police. It was from Netherlands. The outcome was a several year sentence but he had it all on probation since he had a clean record (and a well paying job, and a family to take care of). He also had to pay some hefty fines and follow some terms of probation like going to out patient rehab. I don't think he ever went to jail, even after the initial raid. Of course they searched his entire house and all of his cars too, they found weed and pipes and maybe other things also I can't remember for sure. He woke up next to his (extremely freaked out wife) with agents pointing guns at them. Didn't see the pack until he got to court, they didn't really do a CD just raided him.
I think the charge was 'importation of a controlled substance' one for each of the drugs, but don't quote me on the charge name it has been a while. They also charged him with having weed at his house and a few other charges for small amounts of illegal things they found at his house, but I am pretty sure all of those were dropped in a plea agreement.
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I can see that people are getting confused so let me see if I can help...
All of my info is garnered from actual controlled delivery cases from US District Court of Appeals as I used to work in the law library at a prison.
First off the law enforcement agency needs to identify possession. The best way to do this is to put a device in the package that lets them know when the package has been opened. Regardless of the name on the package the opener is the person who has accepted possession.
Once the sensor has been set off LE will rush in and attempt to arrest who ever it was that opened the package.
In the heat of the moment it can get a little dicey as far as who will be charged but in the end it will most likely by whomever opened the package.
#1 rule of thumb is this... if you receive a package that contains contraband and if the delivery feels ANY different than any other delivery then DO NOT accept it and DO NOT open it. If everything seems okay then at the very least remove the package to another location at least a few miles from your residence while checking for tails.
Controlled deliveries are VERY easy to spot if you know the difference between a normal delivery and anything not normal...
Basically trust your gut... if it doesn't feel right then move on... it's not worth prison time for a few hundred dollars worth of drugs.
Good Luck!!!
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I have only heard of them using tracking devices hidden in the pack if
A. It is a huge order (with a tracking device implanted into a kilo of coke or something)
B. They have reason to believe the pack was sent to a fake ID box or other location that doesn't have a direct connection to the person picking up the package
edit: Oh, just noticed you didn't say tracking device but device to determine if the package has been opened. I have never heard of them using a device to determine when the pack is opened, although I do think it is a good idea for vendors to include such devices in packages they send to customers. Then customers can remotely detect if the package has been opened in transit, prior to picking it up...of course this assumes that the pack is shipped to a box with no tie to the person picking it up. We really need to get these devices implemented, they should be very cheap and very effective at detecting interceptions.
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That would be a great idea. If there was a device that could trigger when a package was opened, the buyer would know if the package had been intercepted. If no signal, the package is safe. If prior to the buyer receiving the package the alarm sounded, refuse delivery.
I wonder how much a device like that would cost and how effective it would be.
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That would be a great idea. If there was a device that could trigger when a package was opened, the buyer would know if the package had been intercepted. If no signal, the package is safe. If prior to the buyer receiving the package the alarm sounded, refuse delivery.
I wonder how much a device like that would cost and how effective it would be.
It would only cost a few dollars but it requires custom programming work that has not been done yet. It would be very effective. Battery powered RFID can transmit pretty far. The device can trigger with a photovoltaic cell (solar panel), since when the package is opened it is exposed to light. It should trigger the wipe of volatile memory that holds the seed for a PRNG. The current state of the PRNG should transmit once every minute or something, after a certain time delay has passed (so it only starts to transmit after it is in the box, not on its route to the box). You can then just use an RFID wand near the box (100 meter radius?) to see the broadcast, and compare the PRNG state to what it should be that number of minutes after the device was set. Keep taking measurements and the more that it matches up the more certain you can be that it wasn't intercepted. If customs opens the package the seed is wiped from the memory so customs can not reverse engineer the device or determine what the state of the PRNG should be. If the device doesn't transmit or the transmission doesn't match up to what it should be, you can assume the photovoltaic cell was triggered and thus the pack was opened.
Enelysion is the one who introduced this idea, although I am pretty sure he already knew gem smugglers who were using it. My idea was for moving bulk drugs nationally via third party moving companies, with hidden drugs in some of the things being moved. Also with hidden cameras that transmit via cellular network, so you can remotely monitor the shipment for interceptions in that way. Even if there isn't constant coverage on the moving trucks route, you could have it store video and transmit when there is coverage. You don't even need to transmit everything, you can have it so it only transmits when the video changes (like if there is light entering into the truck after it is opened..if there is no change detected it doesn't need to transmit the same image over and over). Enelysions technique is more practical though, and works for international orders.
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God, I miss this guy
/sorry for OT