Silk Road forums
Discussion => Drug safety => Topic started by: newbottles on April 01, 2013, 05:50 pm
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I hope someone has experience or insight to share on this topic.
I chip away at insufflating (snorting) #4 heroin. I use very reputable vendors here. Not every time, but several times after I pick it back up, I have quickly developed some sort of lung issues. This ranges from mild discomfort like mild asthma tightness, to a mild cough, to one full blown case of very nasty bronchitis.
Given my experience pre-H, this is clearly directly correlated. I don't typically have any lung issues.
I have also had mild lung symptoms after an oral oxycodone IR run (with no insufflation).
I am not experiencing any other allergic type reactions. It seems to be isolated to the lungs and potentially immune system.
Does anyone have experience or explanation of why the symptoms are related to H? Any ideas on how to prevent this correlation? I appreciate that opioids suppress the cough reflex which may be relevant.
Am I somehow screwing up in my insufflation technique? I go much softer and slower than cocaine, trying to keep it in my nose and not my lungs. My tolerance is such that I am not sucking up a large amount of powder. I chip away at 1 gram for well over a week.
I would appreciate any insight here. If I can't find a way to prevent the lung issues I will need to abstain.
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H is a strong cough suppressant. maybe you inhaled something and it got stuck in your lungs ... .
also H depresses breathing.
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I have only used heroin for a two week period, but chasing it off foil for those 6 times in that period left me with a definite chest/lung issue, tight and painful coughs. I've been in ICU 4 times in the last three years for medical problems and all four times was given dilaudid, morphine, fentanyl etc and every time I got out same deal, tight chest, rattle deep in there. like was said earlier opiates suppress cough, the stronger the opiate the stronger the suppression, so its really easy for something stupid like a trickle of spit to roll down your windpipe without reflex coughing it back up. It's one of the reasons Pneumonia is so prevalent and deadly in hospitals!
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seen junkies get tinfoil poisoning & water on the lungs. i.e pleurisy :'(
dont do heroin guys its a bad bad drug :
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It's either the caught suppressing aspect of opiates or maybe you are mildly allergic to them.
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It could be the way that opiates play on the bronchiods. This would cause tightness, shortness of breath, and possibly asthma attacks. Do you find less side effects when you taper off?
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I don't really get the bronchial symptoms in the same time period of taking a dose. It is more that after I chip away at a gram over a week or so, I get a nasty, persistent cough and shortness of breath that lasts for days or even a week. The symptoms eventually resolve but not immediately after I taper and stop using.
I have had this more than once with heroin, but not every time. And I have had it with oral oxycodone as well, but much milder. For this reason I don't suspect it is related to insufflation, but rather to the opioid mechanisms themselves. The lack of other histamine type symptoms makes me think it is not an allergic reaction, but rather something directly related to the cough suppression effect of opioids.
I appreciate the responses and hope someone who has this same experience will find the thread and be able to offer some preventative advice other than abstaining altogether.
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I was back to healthy/normal lung state, and I got my tolerance down toward baseline and tried a brief #4 run again. This time it was even more acute - almost immediate lung tightness. But it doesn't seem to be a long term problem after tapering and stopping this time. Regardless it is a bummer. All the positive effects are there, but this negative is very significant.
I can drink like a fish and was always surprised by those who are 'allergic' to alcohol. I am concluding I have a similar genetic predisposition toward opioids. I know enough about pharmacology to know that any drug has responders, non-responders, and problematic responders. I guess I drew the card that will severely dissuade me from abusing opioids. I am sure many on this forum are happy to hear this!
I will use this as a good reason to get back to mindfully exploring cannabis. It is certainly more conducive to better sex and food than opioids!
Whatever you choose to do, stay smart and stay safe.
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Is IV as ROA an option for OP?
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Is IV as ROA an option for OP?
In theory IV is an option. I chose to experiment with insufflation as a first step. I have no IV experience. Now I am concerned about gauging dosage with IV or plugging ROA due to my concern about a potential allergy.
At this point I doubt the adverse effects are solely related to the insufflation ROA but to the opioid itself. My first adverse lung experience was after a week of daily oral oxycodone with no insufflation or smoking involved.
Do you have reason to believe the ROA is more relevant?
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Is IV as ROA an option for OP?
In theory IV is an option. I chose to experiment with insufflation as a first step. I have no IV experience. Now I am concerned about gauging dosage with IV or plugging ROA due to my concern about a potential allergy.
At this point I doubt the adverse effects are solely related to the insufflation ROA but to the opioid itself. My first adverse lung experience was after a week of daily oral oxycodone with no insufflation or smoking involved.
Do you have reason to believe the ROA is more relevant?
If you have no IV experience. Don't use IV as ROA. Plus, if you believe there it might be an allergy. Do you use any other form of a depressant?
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A gram or so of H or Coke will definitely give me a cough and asthma. When I was a daily user I had very bad lungs and often got lung infections including pneumonia, twice.
I think it is a combo of the dirty smoke/powder and the fact that H and C depress the villi in your lungs so you don't eject stuff from your lungs as efficiently as you should.
I got into IV as an alternative. My lungs cleared up a bit but I wrecked my health in so many other ways.
The safest and one of the most efficient ways to take H is to put it up your anus. No joke. No needles, no coughing, no problem.
My IRL dealer has been smoking H for 15 years. He now has Chronic obstructive pulmonary disease, which is irreversible, and he cannot cross the road or even walk up a few steps without getting short of breath and having to sit down for an age. He is 34 years old :(
Be careful!
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Pakchoi I appreciate the response and am inclined to agree with your theory. It doesn't quite seem like a typical allergic reaction and more specific to the lungs, but I may be wrong.
It is still striking to me that I have taken similar runs on both #4 and Oxy, and about half the time developed the lung issue, and half the time did not. This is one reason I suspect that it is not an allergic reaction.
Sniper, I never combine opioids with a benzo or heavy depressant. However, I frequently combine H with a small dose of alcohol. Oxy I may combine with a larger dose of alcohol over time. I have a pretty steep alcohol tolerance and perceive that I administer the doses in a safe/conservative method. I always take the opioids first and then wait hours before adding in any alcohol. You raise a good point: perhaps the drug combination related to sleeping overnight is aggravating the cough suppression/lung issues?
One thing I was doing was potentiating the Oxycodone IR oral doses with 45mg of DXM. After my first bronchitis bout I stopped doing this since I saw the obvious cough suppression connection. I never combined DXM with H.
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Pakchoi I appreciate the response and am inclined to agree with your theory. It doesn't quite seem like a typical allergic reaction and more specific to the lungs, but I may be wrong.
It is still striking to me that I have taken similar runs on both #4 and Oxy, and about half the time developed the lung issue, and half the time did not. This is one reason I suspect that it is not an allergic reaction.
Sniper, I never combine opioids with a benzo or heavy depressant. However, I frequently combine H with a small dose of alcohol. Oxy I may combine with a larger dose of alcohol over time. I have a pretty steep alcohol tolerance and perceive that I administer the doses in a safe/conservative method. I always take the opioids first and then wait hours before adding in any alcohol. You raise a good point: perhaps the drug combination related to sleeping overnight is aggravating the cough suppression/lung issues?
One thing I was doing was potentiating the Oxycodone IR oral doses with 45mg of DXM. After my first bronchitis bout I stopped doing this since I saw the obvious cough suppression connection. I never combined DXM with H.
Have you been tested for sleep apena?(Do you sleep apena in your family history?) I would imagine if you had apena as the underlying condition. Any depressant that causes those muscles to relax in the throat would worsen the symptoms. It could also be pleurisy. (I tend to get this when I'm smoking massive amounts of meth.)
Another thought. Do you seem to have breathing difficulties during which season the most? (The reason i ask is because of the humidity. I think there might be a direct correlation between how wet and dry the air is. If you find yourself having difficulties breathing in a climate that is wet. (Air is wet) Then, this would make sense why inhaling vapor would worsen symptoms. (Since in theory your inhaling very wet air.)
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imo your snorting wrong (too strong), it shouldnt go down ur lungs
it all about finding the right snorting pressure
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Sniper, I appreciate your logic. However, I have never had any issues with sleep apnea or even snoring, and have no family history of apnea. Thus, I have never been tested.
A actually have no trouble with lung or asthma issues any time of the year. It was clearly brought on by the opioid abuse. It happened to be during the winter which I would call relatively dry this year.
Minchia, any more specific tips about how to find the right snorting pressure or amount at a time?
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Minchia, any more specific tips about how to find the right snorting pressure or amount at a time?
the angle of the tube should point upwards not backwards since you want to have the stuff up your nose,
not in the back of the throat or down your lungs.
well the pressure is hard to describe, you just gonna have try a little bit. lines shouldnt be too thick i guess..
cheers minchia