Silk Road forums
Discussion => Security => Topic started by: Silk Road Encounter on February 15, 2012, 01:39 am
-
What methods does law enforcement have at it's disposal to track which greendot card the moneypak funds are being deposited?
Obviously with a warrant, it's all fair game. I'm talking about technology, not legal recourse. Presume LE is violating privacy rights in answering this question.
Thank you in advance!
-
CCTV recording of MP purchases. If one or more purchases is directly linked to contraband, they could assume everyone that bought MP's that were loaded onto that prepaid were for contraband and seek out those people as well.
-
CCTV recording of MP purchases. If one or more purchases is directly linked to contraband, they could assume everyone that bought MP's that were loaded onto that prepaid were for contraband and seek out those people as well.
I'm talking about accepting mp as payment. Not sending mp as payment.
-
They could create a list of ATMs you withdrew from and a lot of ATMs have video recording of them. Also, if LE was to buy something they could contact greendot, see which card it was loaded onto, and freeze the card stopping you from getting your funds. Other than that, not much.
-
They could create a list of ATMs you withdrew from and a lot of ATMs have video recording of them. Also, if LE was to buy something they could contact greendot, see which card it was loaded onto, and freeze the card stopping you from getting your funds. Other than that, not much.
perhaps acknowledging you sold BTC for people to buy drugs with would get you in trouble, but I doubt selling them for money as a service could, the seller isn't responsible for what the buyer does with it right?, as long as they don't have the seller buying drugs himself; or refusing to co-operate with an investigation, he should be safe I would think
-
From a long gone tradecraft board:
Reloadable debit cards are an insecure method of financial transfer for various reasons. First, there is far too much cross network contamination. Vendors need a box to get the card shipped to plus they need to call and activate the card. The reloadable card company will keep the vendors box and telephone information on record (use a throw away phone). Plus, the vendor absolutely needs to use a fake identity to get the card. The second reason reloadable debit cards are insecure is because the vendor and customer both need to make appearances in a store on CCTV, once for the vendor but every time payment is sent for the customer. Stores that sell Greendot keep the CCTV footage for months. Customs and vendors can not take adequate measures to disguise their identities during the process because there is direct human interaction.
Another disadvantage of reloadable debit cards is the fact that they are centralized and almost none of them are based in countries friendly to financial privacy. Cards are likely to be frozen, the providers are likely to work with law enforcement. One of the most serious risks of reloadable debit cards is the ease with with financial networks can be mapped out. Vendors tend to have many customers send funding to a single centralized card. This means that a single compromised customer can compromise the Greendot card of the vendor. Then they can look for other customers sending money to that card (intelligence not evidence) and find their geolocation from where funds are loaded plus CCTV footage. The only way to prevent this is for the seller to use multiple Greendot cards, one for each customer to be perfect. This is not very feasible. Also, if one of a vendors customers is a fed they are now in a perfect position to gather intelligence. They already know where the vendor ships from. They know where other customers sent money from. If a customer sends a vendor money from Alicetown and the vendor ships priority from Bobtown, the feds now have intelligence indicating that a drug shipment will soon be sent priority from Alicetown to Bobtown. This is a tremendous risk.
In summary, do not use reloadable debit cards they are highly insecure in every possible way!!!!
Tips (for the idiots who decide to keep using this awful payment method)
Customers can out source the purchase of reload moneypaks. Good solutions may include utilizing bums and transients.
Vendors should avoid Greendot type reloadable debit cards. If they are used they should be highly compartmentalized (different cards for different groups of people). Compartmentalization is not possible in all cases though. Remember, if a single customer is malicious they can compromise the entire compartment. This puts customers at risk as well!
Greendot cards are prone to being frozen. Triggers include typical patterns associated with narcotics trafficking; cashing out very soon after cashing in, getting payments from diverse geographic areas (geographic based compartmentalization of customers is suggested), particularly large amounts of money going through a card in a short period of time etc.
-
This may be the most helpful response I could have imagined. However, it doesn't specifically address the issue of whether or not spending proceeds via re-loadable card is inherently risky. I understand that CCTV and ATM camera were mentioned. That doesn't strike me as proof that the person using the card is knowingly spending the proceeds. Are there any other ways LE could decipher whether or not a person is directly linked to narcotics trafficking, simply by spending the proceeds with the card on CCTV?
Remember I'm not looking for legal advice. So any comments about how [you would have to tell them] or [you must cooperate with the investigation] aren't material to my question. It's all about modern technology's account of the goings on of the spender of proceeds of narcotics trafficking.
Thank you in advance.
-
That doesn't strike me as proof that the person using the card is knowingly spending the proceeds. Are there any other ways LE could decipher whether or not a person is directly linked to narcotics trafficking, simply by spending the proceeds with the card on CCTV?
My post was all about counter-intelligence, of course it's not illegal to buy a moneypak, it's not even illegal to buy a moneypak that's used to purchase drugs later. (Money also moves up the drug network so if the next level up i.e. your vendor has good security the trail stops there.) It's intelligence though, and will be used to narrow in on evidence of buying drugs if say, a vendor who accepts moneypak or a vendor who sells both bitcoins and drugs gets owned at some point. The feds can now intersect a list of people that sent payment with a list of places and times where those moneypaks were purchased, and that's when the walls start closing in buyers.
-
So whats a buyer to do? I quit Dwolla to MTgox both keep records and seem way to easy to connect the dots! moneypak doesn't sound safe? what would you suggest is the safest way to get BTC to your wallet?