Silk Road forums

Discussion => Newbie discussion => Topic started by: redson on March 22, 2013, 01:12 pm

Title: Finalizing Early
Post by: redson on March 22, 2013, 01:12 pm
I read not to FE under any circumstances, but all the deals I've seen require FEing, until the vendor concerned is happy not to. Are there any vendors who Don't insisting on FE for new customers?
Title: Re: Finalizing Early
Post by: sftman on March 22, 2013, 01:21 pm
Many don't.  You just might have to look a little harder.  Newer vendors are often happy to accept new buyers because they can help them get their rating and rankings established, and they are often vendors who are willing to try a little harder for those good ratings in the beginning.  Start with smaller orders with new vendors as a precaution.  Send a vendor a message if you have questions.  It really is a very bad idea to finalize early.  You lose all the power in the relationship.  As soon as you've finalized, all you can do is hope they come through with a shipment of what you ordered.

I'm sure a lot of people remember a time in the early days of the drug purchasing IRL when they gave someone some money and they promised to be right back with the drugs but they never came back?  Well, at least IRL you know where you found the person and what they looked like, although it probably didn't do you too much good.  Here, you're even more helpless against unscrupulous vendors in that situation.  If there isn't a vendor today who has what you want without FE, wait a day or two and check again.
Title: Re: Finalizing Early
Post by: LawEnforcementAgent on March 22, 2013, 01:34 pm
Vendors requiring FE are either scammers or assholes. FE is for trusted vendors ONLY. Keep searching and reading the forums. FE = $$ lost, unless you have established trust with your Anonymous Vendor of choice.

FE, as SR Admins and users repeatedly say, steps outside the protection of escrow, leaving you with no consumer protection.

1. Don't FE, unless you have established trust.
2. ALWAYS opt for Tracking--so both the Vendor and YOU know where you product is... which will protect you in the event of seizure or scam...
3. Be careful buying "cheap" dope. Cheap usually translates to low quality or synthetic narcotics. Have you tested your drugs with GC-MS? Reagent tests? Or just direct consumption? Be sure what you order is what you get.
Title: Re: Finalizing Early
Post by: emeraald on March 22, 2013, 01:51 pm
k, quick deal on FE- SOME PPL (like me if I get on here selling) **will** require FE unless you have, say, 5 or 10 successful transactions, good buyer stats, etc. My first 3 or so orders were FE and all was good. BUT if this is your first buy, don't be surprised if you're asked to FE. INSTEAD, say "I completely understand, but we could use a tracking number instead. Is that acceptable?"

Now that I hit all escrow requirements, I ALWAYS get a tracking number. Not all FE'ers are scammers, but you MUST do your homework on a vendor requiring FE. Say it's your first time buying like I mentioned- Honestly, a lot of sellers are afraid of YOU instead of the other way around! Sellers scam as well, but you have to think about the fluctuation of the bitcoin- Five days from now, when you finalize or whenever, the bitcoin could be worth only half as much!.. So the seller lost half their money. (For example, when I try to set up if possible.. Sorry, I'm gonna give both FE and escrow requirements because buyers DO scam sellers, and try to keep tracking numbers for everybody no matter what.) I know you prob have good intent as a buyer and won't screw anybody over, but you have to look up the seller wanting FE, don't jump into it; that's the key.. ESPECIALLY if they pressure you in messages, etc. And just like we both said, ASK FOR TRACKING INSTEAD OF FE. If you get told you can't have tracking and should FE, say no way and go elsewhere- that's a huge red flag.
Title: Re: Finalizing Early
Post by: LawEnforcementAgent on March 22, 2013, 01:56 pm
My first time buying, I was NEVER asked to FE.

For first time buyers: FE = SCAM.
Title: Re: Finalizing Early
Post by: Unethical Nutrients on March 22, 2013, 02:26 pm
When we signed up as a Vendor, we were informed that as a Vendor with less than 35 transactions, you are not allowed to ask buyers to FE.
We have nearly hit the 35 mark now and are considering asking for FE for non-repeat members with only 1 or 2 previous deals.  We have unfortunately had to knock back a couple of orders from Buyers with nil transactions.  As a buyer, you can sleep at night a little better after viewing the Vendor's feedback.  If they have 100% positive feedback. You are pretty safe to FE.

Unethical Nutrients
AUS to AUS
Mephedrone
MDMA
AMT
MXE
Title: Re: Finalizing Early
Post by: circusaulait on March 22, 2013, 02:58 pm
under absolutely no circumstances should you FE. not even for trusted vendors. it renders you helpless if something does go wrong with the transaction. and it undermines the entire checks and balances system that allows the anonymous marketplace to function.
i understand that vendors need to protect themselves so many post FE reqs for first time buyers. that's cool for them as a protection, but that doesn't mean you have to use them for your very first purchase. move on, find someone else. or better yet, establish yourself and your trust by buying smaller amounts of whatever you were after or buy other items like books or a viagra or a carton of cigs. items or services from vendors that are willing to work with first timers.
out of my first 5 purchases, 2 of them got me to FE. those were the only 2 times i ever lost my money on SR. both were trusted vendors. the first was a vendor of over a year who decided to go rogue and make as many people FE as he could before disappearing (Mrfungi, that dick). the second was a vendor who had me FE and i never got my package, but he said he sent it, but since i finalized early, he wasn't obligated to provide me a DCN or tracking number, and no protection of escrow, so my only recourse was to change feedback and rating.
i didnt read the guidelines well enough so i didnt fully grasp the finalization thing, and i got burned. my fault? yes
again, let me state that vendors have to protect themselves. and so do buyers. that vendor will be just fine without your first time purchase. they will be a lot happier to have your business when you have a bit of street cred. so don't do it. don't buy into it, don't encourage it. my two cents.
Title: Re: Finalizing Early
Post by: jentyb on March 22, 2013, 03:02 pm
good thread!!
Title: Re: Finalizing Early
Post by: LawEnforcementAgent on March 22, 2013, 03:09 pm
good thread!!

Bump.
Title: Re: Finalizing Early
Post by: strangeman on March 22, 2013, 04:38 pm
I've finalized early a number of times, either for free shipping or because I was new, and I haven't lost a dime on SR. Any SR purchase is a gamble (sorry, but the escrow system is far from perfect, people get screwed all the time, especially new buyers), but finalizing early does put you in a particularly vulnerable position. I don't know what's really the better deal, wasting money on piddly shit you don't want just to get your stats up or rolling the dice on FE. New vendors are a substantial risk as well, but probably give you the best odds.

If you do FE, do your research. Check the forums, read all of their feedback. Be especially careful of vendors who have unreasonable standards for FE. Don't do business with someone who wants everyone to FE. And, of course, don't FE for more than you can afford to lose.
Title: Re: Finalizing Early
Post by: Stringer on March 22, 2013, 05:20 pm
A lot of you vendors are saying check your stats and feedback. But I read not too long ago that your stats can be juked and the feedback can be faked. What other homework can we do to feel more comfortable?
Title: Re: Finalizing Early
Post by: mito on March 22, 2013, 05:56 pm
http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?topic=6058.0

TAKE THE PLEDGE!!!!!!!

Title: Re: Finalizing Early
Post by: John Gotti on March 22, 2013, 06:01 pm
NO
Title: Re: Finalizing Early
Post by: redson on March 22, 2013, 09:37 pm
Thanks for the various replies. I've had three trades where I've be forced to FE without any problem. Then two made last week and neither order has arrived yet. One vendor seems concerned and I think is genuine, the other has ignored messages thus far, although I have dealt with them before.

Part of the problem seems to be, once you've FE'd you cant then  submit feedback if it goes wrong, unless you post experiences on the forum. This has to skew the rating of vendors regarding trust and can easily be exploited by unscrupulous vendors, especially if you're a new buyer. It seems to me the best thing to do is just buy samples until you build up reputation.
Title: Re: Finalizing Early
Post by: danknasty on March 22, 2013, 09:44 pm
Dont FE dude...
Title: Re: Finalizing Early
Post by: frankfurta68 on March 22, 2013, 10:02 pm
DO NOT FE!
Title: Re: Finalizing Early
Post by: danknasty on March 23, 2013, 12:01 am
Said it before and I'll say it again, DO NOT FINALIZE EARLY BRUH
Title: Re: Finalizing Early
Post by: redson on March 23, 2013, 12:48 am
Given that pretty much EVERY vendor requires new buyers to FE, and SR is happy to let them do that, there's a problem with this whole system.
Title: Re: Finalizing Early
Post by: abbomire on March 23, 2013, 01:07 am
I had to FE on my first order.  $200 spent, never got the product.

The seller pulled all his listings, so it's clear to me now that it was a scam.

Title: Re: Finalizing Early
Post by: charity777777 on March 23, 2013, 01:12 am
FE = LOSING MONEY!!!!!! Think about the exchange rate.  Hold on to your bitcoin as long as possible.  Please do not FE.  If we newbies stand our ground, maybe these vendors will stop asking for it.  It is worth it to find someone who does not require FE.  In my case, I was asked to FE with a vendor called CIMICON (DO NOT TRUST HIM!!!) in late January 2013, just as the bitcoin rate started to rise.  After 5 weeks, I still had not received my order with very little, and difficult communication.  Finally I decided to cancel, fearing that he was a scammer.  I asked for a full refund.  In that time the bitcoin rate had risen substantially.  So even though he received 13 bitcoins from me through the FE process, after having sat on it for 5 weeks, he refunded me only 6+ bitcoins.  So, he gets to keep the product plus more than half the purchase price.  ( HE DOES THAT BECAUSE HE CAN, BUT WHAT ABOUT WHAT IS RIGHT?!!!)  There was no escrow involved, no hedging.  A pretty sweet deal for him.  Even though I tried to reason with him,  through multiple e-mails, and notified Silk Road,  in essence, I was told tough luck!  BE CAREFUL!  I will not order from anyone who requires FE again.  And if they don't acknowledge your order within a few days, CANCEL!  The longer you let that order hang out there, the more money you will lose.   Especially with FE, think how much money those vendors are making with the rise in the Bitcoin rate.
Title: Re: Finalizing Early
Post by: TheManHimself on March 23, 2013, 01:45 am
I've only just placed my first order so I'm not saying this specifically about SR.

The escrow system exists for the sole reason that distance buyers/sellers can scam people. There's really no good reason for you to FE - the majority of scammers will be "sellers" rather than buyers for the simple reason that scammers generally want money and buyers are the people with money. If you're buying something in a market that has an escrow system, avoid sellers who ask you to go around that escrow system.
Title: Re: Finalizing Early
Post by: BKisnotBurgerKing on March 23, 2013, 04:09 am
I only FE for very trusted vendors and international orders that require it and I set a small limit I'm comfortable with possibly losing. Even then I always think twice about it.
Title: Re: Finalizing Early
Post by: clmbs910 on March 23, 2013, 04:23 am
When we signed up as a Vendor, we were informed that as a Vendor with less than 35 transactions, you are not allowed to ask buyers to FE.
We have nearly hit the 35 mark now and are considering asking for FE for non-repeat members with only 1 or 2 previous deals.  We have unfortunately had to knock back a couple of orders from Buyers with nil transactions.  As a buyer, you can sleep at night a little better after viewing the Vendor's feedback.  If they have 100% positive feedback. You are pretty safe to FE.

Unethical Nutrients
AUS to AUS
Mephedrone
MDMA
AMT
MXE


I hear where you're going with this, but I don't know that I'm convinced... my thought is that by asking newbies to FE, you're risking business, right? I mean, saavy folks with money to spend are just going to look elsewhere to find a vendore that doesn't require FE, since there's so much on the forums saying NEVER do it...
Title: Re: Finalizing Early
Post by: p4cknload on March 23, 2013, 04:32 am
I went to go make my first purchase today from SR and was planning on ordering 5-15 rolls of X. The vendor said he does not require FE on his page but when I messaged him he messaged me back stating he wanted me to FE. I advised him on his page it said "New users don't need to FE when ordering small quantity" so after I have read so much and talking to other people that say never FE I found a different vendor that did not require FE and ended up purchasing 20 with no FE. I even advised I would place 2 smaller orders with the first vendor like order 5 make sure that transaction goes smooth then order 10-15 the next time but I had to search and find another vendor. Hopefully the product will be what they say it is and all will go smooth. I will be an established buyer on here in no time I understand I need to get my stats up to be trusted and I don't really disagree with that. I would want "some" protection as a seller too if I was in that position. If you can't find what your looking for look around more. Read not only feedback but find the vendor page and read everything there. Its all about protecting yourself from a money standpoint and a legal standpoint. Take those extra few minutes and do your homework. I might have saved myself $200 today by doing just that.

I will be glad when I get out of this newbie section and hit my 50 posts as well. If anyone wants to hand out and rep/karma for me go right ahead  ;D
Title: Re: Finalizing Early
Post by: jakedake on March 23, 2013, 05:01 am
Don't FE. The seller can ship Priority or Express with tracking & post terms & conditions that if tracking shows the package was delivered then order must be finalized. So many ways to stay in escrow and everyone is protected as much as possible.
DO finalize as quickly as possible though when you receive the order. Don't make good sellers wait for their money. That makes it bad for everyone.
Title: Re: Finalizing Early
Post by: Block Buster on March 23, 2013, 05:11 am
Assuming you're trusted yourself, I don't at all see any issues with requiring a new user (or a user with very little, to no, purchase stats) from finilizing early. Especially if it's for over $100. Otherwise I just think you're opening yourself right up to being scammed as a seller.
Title: Re: Finalizing Early
Post by: wheardego on March 23, 2013, 05:12 am
ima beast, and i did fe. two ords. so, one im sure like id put up for it, then the other i hope, but dont care. but im sure its smooth too...i just did it cuz the money started to cost less...wtf.
Title: Re: Finalizing Early
Post by: ELAV8 on March 23, 2013, 07:05 am
Should never finalize early!

Vendors will build trust just to get you to get a large order and rip you. Selective scamming is bad sometimes but its cause people are dumb enough to finalize so they know you are a n00b xD. 2 orders ago I FE'd for a 60 gram meth order and came as straight ISO salts and shit. Nasty shit! Left you with headaches but reagent tests all came back with bad reaction aswell.
Title: Re: Finalizing Early
Post by: Deviltheory33 on March 23, 2013, 07:11 am

Dont FE dude...
Title: Re: Finalizing Early
Post by: circusaulait on March 26, 2013, 04:58 am
hey ELAV8 do you feel comfortable saying who the vendor was that sent you the bunk meth? SWIM buys a lot of meth and would appreciate knowing who to avoid. thanks!
Title: Re: Finalizing Early
Post by: _Teknique on March 26, 2013, 05:03 am
Don't FE, build your buyer stats with other vendors who do not require it. I got lucky that when I had to FE for SuperTrips it was before he started pullin crazy stunts causing his rating to plummet below 90%.
Title: Re: Finalizing Early
Post by: KidA on March 26, 2013, 05:17 am
I personally will finalize early with vendors I have done a decent bit of business with (5+ transactions, some large volume) or vendors that are highly regarded on the road/the forums+some experience or direct communication with. As a rule it is a necessary but not sufficient condition for Class A sellers to be active on the forum, with positive reviews of product and service (watch the rumor mill), as well as maintaining a good status on the road itself review-wise. Never FE for new sellers even if they are promising extra product, for many of us around when "LSD Gummy Stars" were a thing you know this by now. Regard samples as gambling and pay the premium for safety/insurance, that's what you're using the road for if you're doing it right.

If you are not familiar with the "web of trust" concept used in PGP, or in any all-anon situations like this, you better damn well get acquainted with it. Learn who is trustworthy, make connections, and rank their opinions over others. It's not hard to get what you pay for on the road, but remember you only get what you pay for and anyone can make multiple accounts or vouch for themselves. I have personally never been ripped. I had a package never show up once in which case I was rushed double what I paid for. In one other scenario I had an order mixed up in my favor and the seller offered to send even more of the specific product to make up for the confusion. If you are a good person on here you are not the anomaly.
Title: Re: Finalizing Early
Post by: arcus101 on March 26, 2013, 05:22 am
ASASAS
Title: Re: Finalizing Early
Post by: newbottles on March 26, 2013, 08:15 pm
Do not FE!  The escrow system is the foundation of SR (along with BTC of course).

If you are brand new, find a reputable vendor who doesn't require FE.  Or, message a vendor that does and ask if you can work it out. 

You may need to make a few small orders first before a vendor will accept a larger order without FE.  That is fair. 

If you want something specific and can't find a vendor that doesn't require FE, post what you are looking for and folks will recommend vendors.

Don't FE!
Always use PGP for address!
Title: Re: Finalizing Early
Post by: caman420 on March 26, 2013, 08:22 pm
I Havent ask anyone to FE got to have faith i suppose
Title: Re: Finalizing Early
Post by: ladyjane on March 26, 2013, 08:27 pm
Do not FE!  The escrow system is the foundation of SR (along with BTC of course).

If you are brand new, find a reputable vendor who doesn't require FE.  Or, message a vendor that does and ask if you can work it out. 

You may need to make a few small orders first before a vendor will accept a larger order without FE.  That is fair. 

If you want something specific and can't find a vendor that doesn't require FE, post what you are looking for and folks will recommend vendors.

Don't FE!
Always use PGP for address!

good post, +1 :)
Title: Re: Finalizing Early
Post by: AddyJacks on March 26, 2013, 08:37 pm
There are great vendors for every drug that don't require finalizing early, if your into MDMA which I largely am, Interways and DutchTrade  are very professional cheap vendors with good quality whom I would recommend
Title: Re: Finalizing Early
Post by: Cimicon-Rep on March 26, 2013, 11:30 pm
FE = LOSING MONEY!!!!!! Think about the exchange rate.  Hold on to your bitcoin as long as possible.  Please do not FE.  If we newbies stand our ground, maybe these vendors will stop asking for it.  It is worth it to find someone who does not require FE.  In my case, I was asked to FE with a vendor called CIMICON (DO NOT TRUST HIM!!!) in late January 2013, just as the bitcoin rate started to rise.  After 5 weeks, I still had not received my order with very little, and difficult communication.  Finally I decided to cancel, fearing that he was a scammer.  I asked for a full refund.  In that time the bitcoin rate had risen substantially.  So even though he received 13 bitcoins from me through the FE process, after having sat on it for 5 weeks, he refunded me only 6+ bitcoins.  So, he gets to keep the product plus more than half the purchase price.  ( HE DOES THAT BECAUSE HE CAN, BUT WHAT ABOUT WHAT IS RIGHT?!!!)  There was no escrow involved, no hedging.  A pretty sweet deal for him.  Even though I tried to reason with him,  through multiple e-mails, and notified Silk Road,  in essence, I was told tough luck!  BE CAREFUL!  I will not order from anyone who requires FE again.  And if they don't acknowledge your order within a few days, CANCEL!  The longer you let that order hang out there, the more money you will lose.   Especially with FE, think how much money those vendors are making with the rise in the Bitcoin rate.

It would be nice if there was some accuracy in your post and a demonstration of understanding how bitcoins actually work.  I don't blame you though. Why would you want to be honest when being honest means admitting ignorance and having to retract false information?

 

 
Title: Re: Finalizing Early
Post by: Gil on March 26, 2013, 11:39 pm
As a vendor I feel Finalizing early for new customers is necessary. If not, anyone can open up an account, make an order and then state it never arrived and get a refund and therefor cheap dope.
As a customer I had the same doubts at first so I made some small orders to get my stats up.

Gil
Title: Re: Finalizing Early
Post by: inthefade on March 27, 2013, 01:11 am
I'm sorry, I'm new here and while I read several posts, I didn't read all 38. I have a question:

I made my first order and didn't have any rep. If the vendor asks me to FE and I refuse, what happens? The order is cancelled and I get my money back? I lose my money? Will he be mad and won't let me buy again? Or will I be able to buy when I have some rep?
Title: Re: Finalizing Early
Post by: weed4me6969 on March 27, 2013, 01:24 am
man im gonna be pissed if AddyQueenHashKing robbed me!!!
Title: Re: Finalizing Early
Post by: newbottles on July 01, 2013, 09:42 pm
As a vendor I feel Finalizing early for new customers is necessary. If not, anyone can open up an account, make an order and then state it never arrived and get a refund and therefor cheap dope.
As a customer I had the same doubts at first so I made some small orders to get my stats up.

Gil

As a buyer, I definitely empathize with this side of the transaction as well.

Bottom line: fresh buyers should be prepared to make small purchases with no FE to build up stats.  I found this method to be very, very easy and this was less than a year ago.  Vendors need to see a little action, not a lot, and it's all good. 

Vendors should be prepared to support the same system.

We all recognize FE is just inherently bad news.  Because it is antithetical to the entire SR concept!

Win/win.

If you want to "FE" get white sking and go cop on the street and just hand $100 (or $300, or $500) to the sketchiest sick strange "runner" you can find.  Great times will potentially ensue.  Hey - maybe you will get your dope!
Title: Re: Finalizing Early
Post by: roundhead on July 01, 2013, 10:40 pm
When I first started I found a lot of Cocaine sellers would not sell to me unless I FE as said I needed some positive feedback first. I purchased some very small amounts (£30 for all) of Vallium, Viagra and Weed from three different vendors after they arrived and I had purchases under my belt I found vendors more inclined to send without FE. I did once before on my old account FE though one of the top selling cocaine dealers on here has it as a main requirement and luckily it arrived for me but to be honest it is not worth the risk.