Silk Road forums

Discussion => Drug safety => Topic started by: KaoticS on January 28, 2013, 08:52 am

Title: Alprazolam powder and making blotters - Need some help
Post by: KaoticS on January 28, 2013, 08:52 am
Ok so got some Alprazolam powder from one of the many legit vendors here on the Road. Plan on doing a 1:1 ration like the Xanax liquid solution already in pharmacies. Example: I am going to mix 100mg of Alprazolam with 100 ml of PG (Propylene Glycol 99.9% USP), that should give me a 1:1 ration (1mg / ml).

My question is how do I go from that liquid to say putting it on blotter sheets? Cut the blotter into the individual squares and place 1ml onto 1 square, or bust out a pyrex pan and lay the sheet in there (100 tabs) in the 100ml of 1/1 solution.

If worse comes to worse I am thinking of doing 10mg in 10ml and try 1ml on a blotter and see how that works.

Edit: Spelling - dur hur
Title: Re: Alprazolam powder and making blotters - Need some help
Post by: weirdal on January 28, 2013, 09:38 pm
I'm no expert, but if it were me, I'd count out a certain number of drops(either 1 or 2 for every blotter hit) and add a proportionate amount of xanax powder.  So that maybe 4 drops per 1 mg of xanax.  Then drop two drops on each blotter paper giving each blotter 0.5mg.  100ml would be a large amount of liquid and wouldn't evaporate very quickly...  I don't think you can use propylene glycol for this if you're laying it on blotter I think you'd better use high proof everclear.
Title: Re: Alprazolam powder and making blotters - Need some help
Post by: KaoticS on January 28, 2013, 09:56 pm
I'm no expert, but if it were me, I'd count out a certain number of drops(either 1 or 2 for every blotter hit) and add a proportionate amount of xanax powder.  So that maybe 4 drops per 1 mg of xanax.  Then drop two drops on each blotter paper giving each blotter 0.5mg.  100ml would be a large amount of liquid and wouldn't evaporate very quickly...  I don't think you can use propylene glycol for this if you're laying it on blotter I think you'd better use high proof everclear.

Fair enough - I may skip the blotters entirely. There is a liquid xanax formula on the market (ALPRAZOLAM INTENSOL) which is 1mg/ml alprazolam in propylene glycol. So I know it's soluable in that for a 1:1 ration. The everclear route makes me worried because I would have to use PEG wouldn't I along with the everclear? The ratios in doing that always seem to be weird.

Think it's easier to just put 1 ml (1mg of xanax) of the PG/Alprazolam solution in a gelatin capsule?
Title: Re: Alprazolam powder and making blotters - Need some help
Post by: weirdal on January 30, 2013, 03:51 am
It just occurred to me that the vendor Arn0ld has a tek on his his page detailing the process.
Title: Re: Alprazolam powder and making blotters - Need some help
Post by: ominuby2 on January 30, 2013, 08:09 am
Think it's easier to just put 1 ml (1mg of xanax) of the PG/Alprazolam solution in a gelatin capsule?

This is what I want to know, too.  Can a gelatin capsule hold a PG/Alprazolam solution?  Or would the gelatin capsule melt? 
I have searched and searched and never found a straight answer to this question.

Title: Re: Alprazolam powder and making blotters - Need some help
Post by: mercurysolid on January 30, 2013, 11:32 am
Gelatin is not soluble in propylene glycol.

Propylene glycol is added to hot aqueous solutions of gelatin to act as a plasticiser, but given that gelatin typically comprises 11% water when in solid form I'm left to wonder about how the method of plasticity is achieved but suspect the propylene glycol is bonded to the water in "dry" gelatin. This latter part is speculation on my part, but you can independently that solid gelatin is not soluble in propylene glycol. Search for gelatin propylene glycol solubility for references.

If you were suitably equipped you could use propylene glycol to dissolve the alprazolam to a known concentration, dispense it with a micro-pipette into half capsules and then evaporate the propylene glycol under vacuum (high vacuum would reduce the boiling point substantially from 188°C) to leave moderately dry alprazolam deposited in the half capsules, which could then be sealed. This probably isn't useful information if you're not already equipped with high vacuum apparatus, but if you were so inclined you could use a fridge compressor as a vacuum pump to good effect.

Title: Re: Alprazolam powder and making blotters - Need some help
Post by: ominuby2 on January 30, 2013, 08:47 pm
Gelatin is not soluble in propylene glycol.

Propylene glycol is added to hot aqueous solutions of gelatin to act as a plasticiser, but given that gelatin typically comprises 11% water when in solid form I'm left to wonder about how the method of plasticity is achieved but suspect the propylene glycol is bonded to the water in "dry" gelatin. This latter part is speculation on my part, but you can independently that solid gelatin is not soluble in propylene glycol. Search for gelatin propylene glycol solubility for references.

If you were suitably equipped you could use propylene glycol to dissolve the alprazolam to a known concentration, dispense it with a micro-pipette into half capsules and then evaporate the propylene glycol under vacuum (high vacuum would reduce the boiling point substantially from 188°C) to leave moderately dry alprazolam deposited in the half capsules, which could then be sealed. This probably isn't useful information if you're not already equipped with high vacuum apparatus, but if you were so inclined you could use a fridge compressor as a vacuum pump to good effect.

Thanks for the info!  If I had a hundred posts I'd give you  +1.  :-)
Title: Re: Alprazolam powder and making blotters - Need some help
Post by: hazed on January 30, 2013, 11:52 pm
Correct me if im wrong bc this is just a guess but wouldnt you lay the blotters the same way one lays acid????

I know iv read several threads on here that have explained how to lay L and also on clearnet...
Title: Re: Alprazolam powder and making blotters - Need some help
Post by: weirdal on February 01, 2013, 09:32 pm
I believe the same basic concept applies.  One difference is that the amount of powder being used is an order of magnitude larger in this circumstance.  Here's the tek on Arn0ld's page.  I'd make some slight changes if I made it, but this would work just fine.

So i guess it doesn't cover how to lay it on blotter, but if you know the concentration of xanax in solution(i.e. 4 drops/mg) Then you could drop 2 drops on each blotter..

Quote

GUIDE FOR A SOLUTION:

I'll leave this here for folks who care enough to minimize harm to themselves and those around them.

Desired Concentration = Alrazolam powder (mg)
_________________________
volume of solvent (ml)

example:
Suppose you desire a final solution of 1 mg/ml (a practical and sensible range for the bulk of buyers). So...as the formula below would predict, add 100 mg Alprazolam powder to 100 mL solvent.


1 mg/ml = 100 mg Alprazolam powder
_________________________
100 mL solvent


-Note: for those bad at math, if you know 2 of the 3 variables in the above equation, the 3rd is easily determined by rearranging the formula (basic algebra, no different than "4=8/2", for instance..

Choice of solvent (for *Alprazolam* specifically):
----------------------------------------

Using only 91% isopropyl alcohol (available OTC) as a solvent, concentrations of up to ~ 20 mg/ml are relatively easy and quick. Warmer temperatures speed up the process and IME necessary, especially when making solutions that are more highly concentrated. Warm using warm water bath or running water is all you'll need. No boiling. No flames.
!!caution: NO OPEN FLAMES, NO SMOKING. Remember alcohol is extremely FLAMABLE.!!

-major drawback of using alcohol as solvent: alcohol evaporates quickly and final product must be stored in airtight container. Consider testing container prior to use ensure it's air tight. Also keep this in mind when making your solution- use lids/corks to minimize evaporation and avoid overly warm temperatures, never boil, etc.

-major benefit: alcohol evaporates quickly. Pre measured doses easily dry on whatever you choose to apply them to (blotter, candy). This way, you can avoid drinking the alcohol solvent which may irritate the mouth/throat/stomach for some.

-be advised: some countries add vomit inducing chemicals or toxins (methanol) to OTC alcohol preparations (aka denatured alcohol). This may be an issue depending on where you live. Everclear alcohol may be a better option. In the US, 91% isopropyl alcohol has not been an issue for me, however, I do not regularly consume the liquid. This might vary with brand and region.
When in doubt, do not proceed! Ax somebody.

Others here and elsewhere have mentioned using propylene glycol as a solvent. I've experimented with Vegetable Glycerin a little and it seemed to work. Neither of these evaporate well (if at all), and this probably limits application to blotters and candy. For this reason, I haven't bothered experimenting with them much.

Again, this applies to Alprazolam only!
Clonazepam behaves differently and might not cooperate as easily. I hope to verify a suitable OTC formula for Clonazepam as soon as it becomes available!

Written by le botbahn. Thanks!

--------------------------------------------------------

Or If you want to make your own pill:

Two solid metal rods.

A cylinder that tightly fits around the rods.

Microcrystaline cellulose.

A hammer.

The anvil rod should be about 2-4" long. And the impact rod 8"..ish.

1 pill will be 100mg large enough to not be brittle. So on a $15 .01 mg scale weigh .99mg Microcrystaline cellulose(go to .99 and take away a grain at a time till it hits .98) and add your Alprazolam till it reaches 1gm. Its not an exact measure but you can get pretty close by subtracting from your target weight to make sure your not under. Better them strong than weak. Imho...

Mix well on a Pyrex dish with razor blade.

On a 1inch square piece of paper folded four ways and un folded to make a dish. Tare yur scale and add 100mg of mix. (.10 on scale)

Place anvil rod on concrete block or floor. Place tube over it pour in mix. Put impact rod in tube. Tap 3 good whacks. The rig usually holds itself together at this point. Just tap impact rod through tube and out pops anvil rod followed by 1mg Xanax.

Written by Shiner. Thanks!

Title: Re: Alprazolam powder and making blotters - Need some help
Post by: monrovia on February 16, 2013, 03:57 pm
Thought I would ask for some ideas here. I know how to make the solution, just wondering about what you guys think the best thing would be to drop and evaporate the iso on. Thanks!

I have an order on the way from arn0ld. He had it 'in transit' like an hour after I ordered, somehow before the SR blackout. Fucking incredible. I will be giving a review when I get it, I like to review my 1st experience with a vendor. Anyway, I don't have a scale precise enough to measure out powder, so I'm making a solution. I'm using isopropyl alcohol, and was going to drop 1mg amounts on to some sort of candy/blotter/pill/etc. I'm wondering if anyone has any thoughts on what the best thing would be for me to drop the solution into, and effectively make it an inconspicuous 1mg xanax pill. Altoids seem like a good choice, but I'm particularly interested in what would absorb the alcohol and allow it to evaporate most easily.

EDIT: I know there's that vendor that sells alpraz. gummies, and that came to mind. I just have a hard time seeing gummies absorbing alcohol well, but if he made an oil based solution, it seems like that would be even worse. I'm on the fence and was just looking for a tad of input to blow my  brainstorm in the right direction.
Title: Re: Alprazolam powder and making blotters - Need some help
Post by: gambino on February 16, 2013, 07:52 pm
Thought I would ask for some ideas here. I know how to make the solution, just wondering about what you guys think the best thing would be to drop and evaporate the iso on. Thanks!

I have an order on the way from arn0ld. He had it 'in transit' like an hour after I ordered, somehow before the SR blackout. Fucking incredible. I will be giving a review when I get it, I like to review my 1st experience with a vendor. Anyway, I don't have a scale precise enough to measure out powder, so I'm making a solution. I'm using isopropyl alcohol, and was going to drop 1mg amounts on to some sort of candy/blotter/pill/etc. I'm wondering if anyone has any thoughts on what the best thing would be for me to drop the solution into, and effectively make it an inconspicuous 1mg xanax pill. Altoids seem like a good choice, but I'm particularly interested in what would absorb the alcohol and allow it to evaporate most easily.

EDIT: I know there's that vendor that sells alpraz. gummies, and that came to mind. I just have a hard time seeing gummies absorbing alcohol well, but if he made an oil based solution, it seems like that would be even worse. I'm on the fence and was just looking for a tad of input to blow my  brainstorm in the right direction.

You could drop it on a lot of different substrates.  Obviously blotter paper works.  Some people have used smarties candy.  What's more important, though, is what you are using to accurately measure the volume of liquid for each dose.

The gummies were probably formed with a solution of alprazolam, as opposed to being made by dropping a solution onto an already formed gummy. 

Whatever you do, be careful handling the alprazolam powder and make double sure you do your calculations are right.  You don't want to be off by a factor of 10 with alprazolam.
Title: Re: Alprazolam powder and making blotters - Need some help
Post by: weirdal on February 18, 2013, 09:34 pm
I would NOT use ISO alcohol.  Shit's NASTY, I don't want that in my body.  I don't even want it associated with something I'll be ingesting.  Honestly, I used 195 proof ethanol(everclear brand if you care).  It works pretty well. The powder is actually surprisingly easy to deal with especially considering how much of a big deal everybody makes about how difficult it is to work with.

The math isn't very complicated either.  When I set about starting this I reached into my memory and pulled out several tomes of information regarding molar concentrations from inorganic chemistry.  Then I realized how much I was over complicated I was making it. 

I went down to the local Herb, essential oil, and massage establishment and procured a 1/4 oz vial with dropper.  I placed into the vial 20mg of alprazolam powder.  Following this I placed 100 drops of ethanol into the vial.  It took half a  minute of swirling for the larger chunks to finish going into solution.   I now have a vial of xanax solution at a concentration of 1mg/5 drops.  This is fine for oral dosing however it would NOT do for laying on blotter.  I would recommend making a stronger concentration for such a purpose.  It MAY require some small amount of heat to coax the powder into solution at the higher concentration.  TBH, I haven't tried yet so I can't tell you definitively.

As far as a medium, Chinacat72 recommended water color paper no. 14 for laying acid.  He's kind of the leading expert on it that I've had the opportunity to speak with(although it's been QUITE a while). If I was ready I'd probably lay the blotters at .5mg/hit and I'd try to get the concentration to 1mg/2drops.  That way I could lay 1 drop per hit.  That is of course providing I wasn't simply dipping the paper.  If I was dipping the paper I would follow chinacat's method for lsd and allow it to dry suspended by two strings hanging parallel to each other and the ground.
Title: Re: Alprazolam powder and making blotters - Need some help
Post by: monrovia on February 19, 2013, 04:44 am
Thanks for the suggestion. The idea is that the iso would evaporate and leave the alprazolam stuck to whatever the solution was dropped on to, but I'll take your ideas into consideration.
Title: Re: Alprazolam powder and making blotters - Need some help
Post by: KaoticS on February 19, 2013, 04:50 am
As far as I can tell - Propylene Glycol is amazing for a 1mg/1ml solution. Take 2-300 mg and mix with equivalent 2-300 ml of PG and it dissolves at a good 1:1 ratio. Takes about 1-2 hours to fully disolve with stirring, but after that you just portion out your 2 ml / 2mg bars into whatever container you decide to use (gelatin capsules didn't work by the way).

Tastes like oily xanax. Leaves to be desired with the taste, but I figure I can figure that out later. I have accurate dosing now, sweet.
Title: Re: Alprazolam powder and making blotters - Need some help
Post by: monrovia on February 20, 2013, 02:45 am
Any suggestion on where to obtain propylene glycol???? Is it a monitered substance by the DEA? Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: Alprazolam powder and making blotters - Need some help
Post by: weirdal on February 21, 2013, 05:52 pm
Why didn't the gel caps work?  they dissolve? or to much liquid per cap?

I'm pretty sure propylene glycol isn't monitored. I was under the impression it was the medium used to fill e-cigarettes(of course with added flavor and nicotine).

I'd imagine you could purchase it online or order it through some local companies if you asked around.  I'll do my own research and let you know.
Title: Re: Alprazolam powder and making blotters - Need some help
Post by: anonemuss2012 on February 22, 2013, 03:46 am
I laid me some  blotters but they came out OBVIOUSLY uneven LOL. I just dissolved all 1000mg of Alp in Everclear (didn't measure this, prob should have). I then poured into a pyrex dish and dipped 2 pages of blotter (1800 hits) plus 2 random sheets (200 more hits) for 2000 blotters, or supposedly 0.5mg Alp tabs. I stacked them in 4 stacks of 5 sheets each. I flipped them all during the drying process periodically while drying. There was a LOT of liquid :\. Next time I'll be more reasonable about the amount of alcohol I use to dissolve the Alprazolam.

I kept switching the positions of the stacks, flipping them, stirring the liquid from time to time. When the liquid evaporated to the height of the stack of the tallest 5 sheet stack of blotters, I saw crystals on the glass so I squirted more Everclear down the sides to hopefully keep the strength of the solution where I wanted it.

Once they all dried, I realized I had sheets on the top and the bottom (the ones most exposed to the liquid solution) that are so saturated with glittery crystal that the print sides are hard to discern haha, and the blank white sides that got the unintended special treatment came out with pretty, pretty VERY visible crystals that get more concentrated the closer to the center of the sheet you look. My advice for fixing this would probably just be switching sheets from the outside with ones from the inside while drying. The sheets that were on the inside of the stacks were very pleasing and evenly laid, though - still, I don't know the concentration of those sheets since 8 sheets got superdosed.


Another way to refine this would be to take one blank page of your stack of intended blotters and measure its MASS. Take note of this mass.
SOAK your page in Everclear in a pyrex dish.
Let the excess Everclear drip off back into the pyrex dish and wait until it doesn't drip anymore.
Measure the mass of the soaked page of blotter and find the difference between this mass and the mass of the dry, pre-soaked blotter page.
This should give you the mass in mg of Everclear needed to soak 900 hits - I'll call this number E.

Using the density of Everclear (don't know what is depending on which state you're in, but it should be converted to units of mg/mL for ease of calculation here), multiply the number E times the density of Everclear (in ***mL/mg*** not the other way around at mg/mL). so   E x mL/mg = mL of Everclear that will fit onto one page of blotter.

AS AN EXAMPLE, say I came up with 20 mL (TOTALLY not sure if this is a legit number) to soak a 900 hit page of blotters and I want to make 900 x 1mg blotters.
Take your 900 mg of Alprazolam and place as efficiently as possible into the bottom of an empty graduated cylinder.
Take your Everclear and fill the graduated cylinder up to the 20 mL mark (because this is the amount of liquid your page CAN and WILL absorb). DO NOT pre-measure 20 mL everclear and add your 900 mg of Aprazolam...this will give a more diluted concentration and will leave you with weaker blotter than you are trying to make. You WILL have more than 20 mL of solution due to alprazolam being added to it.
Pour the 20 mL of Alprazolam/Everclear solution into your pyrex dish, soak your 900 hits in the dish and wait for evaporation. What would be ideal is getting a pyrex dish with a flat bottom that perfectly fits your blotter size - this will cut down on losing crystal to the pyrex dish when evaporating.

PHEW, anyone else? I'm still looking for tips/tricks, too, since I super dosed some sheets and evenly laid some (probably weak) sheets.
Title: Re: Alprazolam powder and making blotters - Need some help
Post by: weirdal on February 22, 2013, 04:56 pm
That's the proper way to lay blotter as has been discussed is several other sources.  However that's rather intensive for the average SR user, and a lot more than was asked for in the first post. :)

If you figured this out yourself rather than extrapolating from others, I give you HUGE kudos. :D  +1

Honestly though, you wouldn't need/want to leave the blotter in the dish.  Lay two strings(fishing wire?) parallel to each other AND the floor and lay the blotter on that.  Since we've already established that the paper will pick up ALL of the liquid you'll be working with there would be no point in leaving it in the dish. Also, if left in the dish it would leave some residue from the alprazolam on the dish.

I REALLY hope all the vendors selling alprazolam blotter are using proper methods to do so! Honestly, if kwiktrip or Oliver came in and voiced(or typed ;D) their input it would be extremely helpful. *hopefully waiting*
Title: Re: Alprazolam powder and making blotters - Need some help
Post by: anonemuss2012 on February 22, 2013, 10:55 pm
That's the proper way to lay blotter as has been discussed is several other sources.  However that's rather intensive for the average SR user, and a lot more than was asked for in the first post. :)

If you figured this out yourself rather than extrapolating from others, I give you HUGE kudos. :D  +1

Honestly though, you wouldn't need/want to leave the blotter in the dish.  Lay two strings(fishing wire?) parallel to each other AND the floor and lay the blotter on that.  Since we've already established that the paper will pick up ALL of the liquid you'll be working with there would be no point in leaving it in the dish. Also, if left in the dish it would leave some residue from the alprazolam on the dish.

I REALLY hope all the vendors selling alprazolam blotter are using proper methods to do so! Honestly, if kwiktrip or Oliver came in and voiced(or typed ;D) their input it would be extremely helpful. *hopefully waiting*

DUDE, that's a fucking awesome idea! +1 to you, ya genius, for the (what I assume is nonabsorbent) fishing wire drying idea!

And as for alprazolam crystals lost to the pyrex, yes, I mopped that shit up so I have a dropper filled with unknown amount of Alprazolam solution. Hopefully I can do this better next time.
Title: Re: Alprazolam powder and making blotters - Need some help
Post by: weirdal on February 23, 2013, 06:05 pm
Thanks for the written appreciation! It's good on occasion to hear you've helped someone out.  :)  I hope everything works out well for you.  Definitely let me know how it worked out for you.