Silk Road forums
Discussion => Philosophy, Economics and Justice => Topic started by: SealTeam6 on May 21, 2013, 03:29 pm
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Is there such a thing?
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was there even a christ?
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Lets for sake of argument assume there was a Christ.
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Is there such a thing?
It all depends on who you ask.
So who do you want to ask about a Anti-Christ.
You wanna ask the Muslim? Can give you the full story explains and his description and what he will do and who he will end.
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Is there such a thing?
It all depends on who you ask.
So who do you want to ask about a Anti-Christ.
You wanna ask the Muslim? Can give you the full story explains and his description and what he will do and who he will end.
True, but from asking the Muslim or the Christian, etc will you ever come to a central theme behind their beliefs?
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I do not want to derail this tread. Your question is about the Anti-Christ. And althought the Christian view and Muslim view share some similarities in the Muslim perspective he is described far more detail. Do you want me to post the whole story of about the Anti-Christ?
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I do not want to derail this tread. Your question is about the Anti-Christ. And althought the Christian view and Muslim view share some similarities in the Muslim perspective he is described far more detail. Do you want me to post the whole story of about the Anti-Christ?
I know all the stories, and that's what they are generally. Stories. But. Stories masking the truth! Its all in the interpretation.
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Is there such a thing?
Summing up some of the believes around the antichrist
Interesting question. From the christian story of the antichrist we have to look to the book of revelations (John of Patmos) It is commonly belied and taught is some schools of theology to be about the roman emperor Nero. However many believe it to be a prophecy of coming events.
Muhammad teaches us in the Qur'an that the antichrist will be a man who elevates himself above god and has only one eye. A way to identify that he is no Christ because he is not perfect. (simplified)
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Many people have built entire belief systems around the second coming of Christ and the coming of the antichrist. Asking "is there such a thing" would ask that it be defined and quantified. Yet I am not sure that it can be, for many years people have pointed to one person or another and claimed them to be the antichrist. From Bill Gates to Barack Obama. I believe that the antichrist is a derivation of the gnostic belief and that the stories are ones that were chosen or used to scare people as many come from a time when gnosticism was still being taught. As such gnosticism teaches that anyone can become like Christ and that both god and heaven are in us waiting to be unlocked. It also taught that to unlock this we use our inner eye.
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Is there such a thing?
Summing up some of the believes around the antichrist
Interesting question. From the christian story of the antichrist we have to look to the book of revelations (John of Patmos) It is commonly belied and taught is some schools of theology to be about the roman emperor Nero. However many believe it to be a prophecy of coming events.
Muhammad teaches us in the Qur'an that the antichrist will be a man who elevates himself above god and has only one eye. A way to identify that he is no Christ because he is not perfect. (simplified)
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Many people have built entire belief systems around the second coming of Christ and the coming of the antichrist. Asking "is there such a thing" would ask that it be defined and quantified. Yet I am not sure that it can be, for many years people have pointed to one person or another and claimed them to be the antichrist. From Bill Gates to Barack Obama. I believe that the antichrist is a derivation of the gnostic belief and that the stories are ones that were chosen or used to scare people as many come from a time when gnosticism was still being taught. As such gnosticism teaches that anyone can become like Christ and that both god and heaven are in us waiting to be unlocked. It also taught that to unlock this we use our inner eye.
I think Muhammad described the Anti-Christ perfectly there. However I believe that the only one who will be able to spot the Anti-Christ is Christ himself. The many people that the population has pointed out as Anti-Christ through out history have all just been mirrors. Like the saying says, "the revolution will not be televised". The showdown in revelations could have taken place already unbeknownst to us all!
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Look the in Arabic the Anti-Christ is called Messiah adDajjal. Mistranslated as Anti-Christ.
But the literal translation is Christ the Deceiver. So he will deceive people in to thinking that he is the real Christ and mislead many people. Then the Messiah Jesus will return and kill the adDajjal.
PS. But is was revealed through the teaching of Prophet Muhammed that there are signs that will lead up to his coming. And the coming of the adDajjal is one of the signs the coming of the day of Judgement.
Here is the whole list of the minor sign leading up to the coming of the anti-christ
Adultery and fornication will be performed in the open
(Bukhari & Muslim)
Women will outnumber men......eventually 50:1 (Bukhari, Muslim, & Ahmad)
Killing, killing, killing (Bukhari, Muslim, Ibn Majah, & Ahmad)
The nations of the earth will gather against the Muslims like hungry people going to sit down to a table full of food. This will occur when the Muslims are large in number, but "like the foam of the sea".
People will beat others with whips like the tails of oxen (Muslim) ?The Slave Trade
The children will be filled with rage (at-Tabarani, al-Hakim)
Children will be foul (at-Tabarani, al-Hakim)
Women will conspire (at-Tabarani, al-Hakim)
Rain will be acidic or burning (at-Tabarani, al-Hakim)
Children of fornication will become widespread or prevalent (at-Tabarani, al-Hakim)
When a trust becomes a means of making a profit (at-Tirmidhi, Al-Haythami)
Gains will be shared out only among the rich, with no benefit to the poor (at-Tirmidhi)
Paying zakat becomes a burden and miserliness becomes widespread; charity is given reluctantly (at-Tirmidhi & Al-Haythami)
Miserliness will be thrown into the hearts of people (Bukhari)
Episodes of sudden death will become widespread (Ahmad)
There will be people who will be brethren in public but enemies in secret (He was asked how that would come about and replied, "Because they will have ulterior motives in their mutual dealings and at the same time will fear one another.") (at-Tirmidhi)
When a man obeys his wife and disobeys his mother; and treats his friend kindly while shunning his father (at-Tirmidhi)
When voices are raised in the mosques (at-Tirmidhi)
People will walk in the marketplace with their thighs exposed
Great distances will be traversed in short spans of time
The people of Iraq will recieve no food and no money due to oppression by the Romans (Europeans) (Muslim)
People will hop between the clouds and the earth
A tribulation will enter everyones home (Ahmad)
The leader of a people will be the worst of them (at-Tirmidhi)
Leaders of people will be oppressors (Al-Haythami)
People will treat a man with respect out of fear for some evil he might do (at-Tirmidhi)
Men will begin to wear silk (at-Tirmidhi)
Female singers and musical instruments will become popular (at-Tirmidhi)
When singers become common (Al-Haythami)
People will dance late into the night
When the last ones of the Ummah begin to curse the first ones (at-Tirmidhi)
People will claim to follow the Qur'an but will reject hadith & sunnah (Abu Dawood)
People will believe in the stars (Al-Haythami)
People will reject al-Qadr (the Divine Decree of Destiny) (Al-Haythami)
Time will pass rapidly (Bukhari, Muslim, & Ahmad)
Good deeds will decrease (Bukhari)
Smog will appear over cities because of the evil that they are doing
People will be carrying on with their trade, but their will only be a few trustworthy persons.
Wealth will increase so much so that if a man were given 10,000, he would not be content with it (Ahmad & Bukhari)
A man will pass by a grave and wish that he was in their place (Bukhari)
Earthquakes will increase (Bukhari & Muslim)
There will be attempts to make the deserts green
The appearance of false messengers (30 dajjals) (Bukhari)
Women will be naked in spite of being dressed, these women will be led astray & will lead others astray (Muslim)
The conquest of Constantinople by the Muslims (Ahmad)
The conquest of India by the Muslims, just prior to the return of Jesus, son of Mary (peace be upon both of them)(Ahmad, an-Nisa'i, at-Tabarani, al-Hakim)
When people begin to compete with others in the construction of taller buildings (Bukhari)
There will be a special greeting for the people of distinction (Ahmad)
The Euphrates will disclose a treasure (The Prophet, peace be upon him, said that whoever is present should not take anything from it) (Bukhari & Muslim)
Two large groups, adhering to the same religious teaching will fight each other with large numbers of casualties (Bukhari & Muslim)
Wild animals will be able to talk to humans (Ahmad)
A man will leave his home and his thigh or hip will tell him what is happening back at his home (Ahmad)
Years of deceit in which the truthful person will not be believed and the liar will be believed (Ahmad)
Bearing false witness will become widespread (Al-Haythami & Ahmad)
When men lie with men and women lie with women (homosexuality/lesbianism) (Al-Haythami)
Trade will become so widespread that a woman will be forced to help her husband in business (Ahmad)
A woman will enter the workforce out of love for this world (Ahmad)
Arrogance will increase in the earth (at-Tabarani, al-Hakim)
Family ties will be cut (Ahmad)
There will be many women of child-bearing age who will no longer give birth.
There will be an abundance of food, much of which has no blessing in it.
People will refuse when offerred food.
Men will begin to look like women and women will begin to look like men
Then you can judge for your self how many of those sign how come.
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Look the in Arabic the Anti-Christ is called Messiah adDajjal. Mistranslated as Anti-Christ.
But the literal translation is Messiah the Deceiver. So he will deceive people in to thinking that he is the real Christ and mislead many people. Then the Messiah Jesus will return and kill the adDajjal.
But how would anyone know this is happening?
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Well if you read the sign I am sure you recognized that some of those sign have all ready have taken please. Sorry I cannot really answer you question but here is something more about the Anti Christ.
This is what have been write about the Anti Christ by Muslim scholars. Plus some extra about what have closer the the day of Judgement
There follows a brief description from the Qur’aan and Saheeh Sunnah narrated from the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) about these three major signs that will precede the Hour and will come at the end of time just before the Day of Resurrection.
The Dajjaal – a man created by Allaah, who will appear at the end of time because of something that makes Allaah angry. He will spread corruption on earth and will claim divinity, calling on people to worship him. They will be tested by the extraordinary powers that Allaah will grant him, such as causing rain to fall, reviving the earth with vegetation and extracting the treasures of the earth. He will be a young man with a ruddy complexion, short of stature, with curly hair. He will be one-eyed; his right eye will be flat and his other eye will have a thick piece of flesh over it. Written between his eyes will be the word “Kaafir” (disbeliever). Most of those who follow him will be Jews. He will meet his end at the hands of ‘Eesa ibn Maryam (Jesus the son of Mary) who will kill him with a spear in Lod, which is in Palestine.
Ya’jooj and Ma’jooj – two disbelieving tribes from among the sons of Adam. They have wide faces and small eyes. They used to spread mischief on earth, so Allaah gave Dhoo’l-Qarnayn the power to build a barrier to detain them. They will keep on digging at it until Allaah gives them permission to come out at the end of time, after ‘Eesa (peace be upon him) has killed the Dajjaal. They will emerge in huge numbers and will drink up the lake of Tiberias (in Palestine). They will spread mischief on earth and no one will be able to resist them. ‘Eesa (peace be upon him) and the believers with him will take refuge in Mount Toor until Allaah destroys Ya’jooj and Ma’jooj by sending worms that will eat their necks. Then Allaah will send rain to wash away their bodies into the sea and cleanse the earth of their stench.
Al-Daabah – a great creature which Allaah will cause to emerge when the people become corrupt. It will speak to mankind and exhort them, having the ability to reason and speak. It will make marks on the people’s noses which will distinguish the believers from the disbelievers.
(For more informations, see Ashraat al-Saa’ah by Yoosuf al-Waabil or al-Qiyaamah al-Kubra by ‘Umar al-Ashqar).
The responsibility of the Muslim is to believe in what was narrated from Allaah and His Messenger. How many wondrous and strange things has Allaah created in this world, which speak of His might and power, may He be glorified and exalted.
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I do not want to derail this tread. Your question is about the Anti-Christ. And althought the Christian view and Muslim view share some similarities in the Muslim perspective he is described far more detail. Do you want me to post the whole story of about the Anti-Christ?
I know all the stories, and that's what they are generally. Stories. But. Stories masking the truth! Its all in the interpretation.
we are living in the age of the anti-christ. the final phase of Kali Yuga in hinduism, the the Dajjaal of Islam, etc.
Christ is in you. The divine intelligence is in all of us.
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I see the signs all the time, but sometimes I wonder if this holy war between the two forces has not happened already, or has happened quietly without any man knowing. What if the day of judgement has been misrepresented or what if God has decided to change his mind and not bring the world to an end in the manner that has been written. Could you except this as a possibility?
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Let look it from this perspective when would one change his mind?
1. A person did not think things through
2. Realized he made a wrong decisions
If you know any more please share.
But God All - Might All Wise All Knowing. Does not make mistake or forgets
Changing the mind is an aspect of human on perfection
will be continued
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Let look it from this perspective when would one change his mind?
1. A person did not think things through
2. Realized he made a wrong decisions
If you know any more please share.
But God All - Might All Wise All Knowing. Does not make mistake or forgets
Changing the mind is an aspect of human on perfection
will be continued
You are looking at God as something that is separate from human beings and this entire world
Lets for arguments sake say that God is perfect and not perfect at the same time.
Lets say that if he is truly a fair God that designed us in his image, that he is essentially just like us.
What if God is one of us, doing the same things we are doing, feeling the same pain as us, and the same joy.
If God is working thru us and is within us, can you imagine that maybe he is always here on Earth in disguise, watching over us. Fighting the devil in ways we have not thought of as yet!
What do you think about this?
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God the Creator must be perfect if He would not be perfect He would not be God. And he is separate from His creation.
He is perfect in all his attributes.
The universe began with a big bang and every thing that has a begin must have an end. That is simple logic.
God the Creator must be Ever-Lasting.
He is the most fair and He gave us free will as a test. So ever evil that is on this earth is form out on action.
He does not wrong any one but we wrong our selves.
Like in Chapter 112 verse of the Quran
And there is none comparable unto Him.
We cannot see Him but He sees us. And has decide in his wisdom to inform us about Himself by means of revelation, messenger and prophets.
God is with us with His knowledge. There is a verse in the Quran that says this. Chapter 50 verse 16
NOW, VERILY, it is We who have created man, and We know what his innermost self whispers within him: for We are closer to him than his jugular vein.
And there is none comparable unto Him.
So God is not like us. The Christian says that God created us in his own image. The Muslim do not confirm or deny some thing that the Christians says.
We have hands right and left. God has two right hands. But we can not know how the look like.
And there is none comparable unto Him.
He does not need to come down to the earth. If there is something He wants done. He says be and it is.
There are verse in the Quran. When you read them the devil run away. Then the Islamic call the prayer is given the devil run. If you say bismillah (in the name of Allah) the devil becomes as small as fly. So he gave us human knowledge and weapons the fight the devils amongst to men and the djinn's
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I don't think God is perfect, that's my problem, I guess. How can perfect bring forth imperfect?
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The world is perfect look around you. Do you see any rift in the sky.
Who hath created seven heavens in harmony. Thou (Muhammad) canst see no fault in the Beneficent One's creation; then look again: Canst thou see any rifts?
Yea, turn thy vision [upon it] again and yet again: [and every time] thy vision will fall back upon thee, dazzled and truly defeated.... (Sc., in its endeavour to encompass the mysteries of the universe.)
If you ever played computer games I assume you did. Then you know some games are buggy and you have glitches and sometimes you walk trough walls get stuck in a corner or something like that. Did that ever happen to you.
The creation of this world is perfect. But because of our free will. We make mistakes because we are not All-Knowing. We are not God.
The perfect God can create any thing. Dont blame him for the faults of the people.
God there Creator must be perfect. And as me people are not perfect we are not worth worship.
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Sorry to jump in but i think i t would difficult if not impossible to argue that this world is perfect- its pretty great but far from perfect.
i think its great that your faith is strong- faith is indeed a powerful thing, but too often this leads to closed minded zealotry and the moral imperative of people to impose thier faith and opnions on others- in the end no one has a monopoly on the truth and in a perfect world we as human beings would respect each other and allow others the freedom to live and think as thier hearts tell them to-just my opinion
again sorry - not trying to hijack the thread- please continue
vw
Do not apologize for speaking your mind anywhere. Let me clarify what I meant by perfect. I do believe the world is perfect as well as people, at least they were created perfectly. What I think happens is that humans are born perfect but are born into a society that makes them imperfect. All the rules and behavior modifications created by man to control other men makes this world imperfect for everyone. It is possible to have heaven on earth, more specifically I believe that earth is the heaven that religions speak of, and the hell. I think religion/man overtime has lost touch with the original message from God. Life is what you make it, I have created a heaven on earth for myself, and it has opened my eyes to the fact of how many hells other people live in daily!
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Sorry to jump in but i think i t would difficult if not impossible to argue that this world is perfect- its pretty great but far from perfect.
i think its great that your faith is strong- faith is indeed a powerful thing, but too often this leads to closed minded zealotry and the moral imperative of people to impose thier faith and opnions on others- in the end no one has a monopoly on the truth and in a perfect world we as human beings would respect each other and allow others the freedom to live and think as thier hearts tell them to-just my opinion
again sorry - not trying to hijack the thread- please continue
vw
The world is perfect, including our dissatisfaction with it, including our desire to change it.
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Sorry to jump in but i think i t would difficult if not impossible to argue that this world is perfect- its pretty great but far from perfect.
i think its great that your faith is strong- faith is indeed a powerful thing, but too often this leads to closed minded zealotry and the moral imperative of people to impose thier faith and opnions on others- in the end no one has a monopoly on the truth and in a perfect world we as human beings would respect each other and allow others the freedom to live and think as thier hearts tell them to-just my opinion
again sorry - not trying to hijack the thread- please continue
vw
The world is perfect, including our dissatisfaction with it, including our desire to change it.
Perfect!
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Ahh the age old question.. first of all I'm not a big fan of religion because it is based on scripts that even with the best intentions of people cannot be accurate. Imagine if something happens today and 3 people describe it. Even if it was the same event, you will see that the 3 stories are different based on the perspective of the person describing it. Now add the fact that thousands of years pass from the important writings, it doesn't seem very plausible to me that what I'm reading say in the Bible at God knows what revision, is any more accurate.
Personal opinion (a bit of Lucy helped me forming it) is that we are all Gods i.e. God is the ocean and we are a drop of it. We simply color that drop according to the lives we live and it can be more Christ like or more non-Christ. So yes maybe we could describe our current times as quite negative, or closer to the age of "anti-Christ" but from my perspective this simply describes humanity as a collective.
Don't forget Christ was also born human. So was Gandhi, Mother Teresa, John Lennon and so on. They all possess the attribute of very clear love for humanity. It's just that each religion focuses on one example - Christianity on Christ. Similarly there were people that acted from a very non-loving place such as Hitler. With the same logic of Christianity, he could easily be described as THE anti-Christ 1000 years from now, or alternatively as just a person being close to the concept. It's all on the perspective, i.e. describing the truth from slightly different angles.
Personally I'm not worried about the "coming of the Anti-Christ" as we all learn it and supposedly prophesized. I believe that is just a story to keep people going in circles, i.e. expecting a future outside event instead of getting off their asses and take control of their own lives. I believe it is a concept devised by our same much loved elite ruling our world with the purpose of mentally taking the power away from people and placing it in some magical land outside our selves. i.e. there is nothing I can do, since it has been predicted that the anti-Christ will come. And this is another example of how still in 2013 we are a largely manipulated race, not in control of our lives and living very much like sheep.
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I am the Anti-Christ.
I am also God. And so are you.
Spiritual entities are mere cowls that the unconscious mind wears to present itself before the conscious mind. Objectively, there are no gods or devils. Subjectively, they all exist somewhere. It doesn't get any simpler than that.