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Discussion => Drug safety => Topic started by: AnimusVox on April 14, 2013, 05:26 am

Title: MDA Harm Reduction Guide
Post by: AnimusVox on April 14, 2013, 05:26 am
Hello brothers! A few weeks back 3Jane asked me to write up a harm reduction guide for her MDA listings, and I thought I would go ahead and share it with everyone here for when her listings aren't available. You may notice many similarities between the harm reduction practices between MDA and MDMA, and that is because they are very closed related in mechanisms of action. In any case, I hope someone finds this useful! :)

--

MDA (Methylenedioxyamphetamine) has been shown to have a neurotoxic effect on the 5-HT axons when abused. Many users will state that MDA is completely safe to use often, but this is a false preconception based on nothing more than anecdotal claims that have zero scientific backing. There have been hundreds of studies throughout the years that outline both MDA's, and it's methylated cousin MDMA's, neurotoxicity, and not taking the time to value the information they have uncovered is altogether unwise.

With this in mind, MDA can be used safely with no backlash assuming a set of precautions are followed when using it.

1) Do not roll more than once a month at LEAST, with emphasis on trying to allow 2-3 months between use.
2) A safe dosing guideline for MDA is typically 1.0-1.5mg/Kg. For instance, if you weigh 80Kg, your dosage will be between 80-120mg depending on desired intensity. 80mg will be a light and sociable dose and 120mg will be a much heavier dose.
3) KEEP YOUR BODY TEMPERATURE LOW AND STAY HYDRATED! This is perhaps the most important guideline in preventing neurotoxicity. Ensure above all else that you are not overexerting yourself.
4) Antioxidants such as Alpha Lipoic Acid, Vitamin C, Vitamin E, Green Tea Extract (EGCG), and Magnesium glycinate will heavily aid in alleviating neurotoxicity, protecting your brain, and improving your roll.

A more explanation on each of these points...

- Moderation is absolutely pivotal when using MDA. MDA releases serotonin in vast amounts and inhibits the enzyme tryptophan hydroxalyse (TPH), which is responsible for creating more serotonin. Because this inhibition is permanent, the body must compensate by creating more TPH, and this restoration period typically takes between 1-3 months depending on the user's diet and exercise patterns. With this in mind, the healthier you are, the quicker the process is. Exercise is phenomenal for speeding up this process as exercise stimulates a release of BDNF which encourages the growth of new serotonin axons. The bottom line is this: spread out your use. Depending on your health and exercise habits, wait at LEAST one month between use, with a strong emphasis on waiting a preferred 2-3 months.

- Dosing and redosing are also two very large components of MDA neurotoxicity. The higher you dose, the more prone you are to MDA's neurotoxic effects. A general guideline for safely dosing MDA is 1.0-1.5mg/Kg. For example, if you weigh 80kg, the optimal dosage for MDA is between 80-120mg. Whether you choose 80mg or 120mg depends on how intense you want the experience to be and is entirely dependant on your choice. Subjectively speaking on the intensity of effects,, 80mg will be a light, sociable dose, 100mg a moderate dose, and 120mg a high, psychedelic dose. Because many users will choose to dose higher in search of a more intense experience, I will offer two critical insights: MDA is much more potent than MDMA, so try to avoid dosing too high, and more importantly, DO NOT REDOSE! Redosing is highly unwise, entirely pointless, and plays a huge role in neurotoxicity and will lead to a terrible comedown.

For a better representation of why this is bad, let me put it into a rough and incredibly oversimplified analogy. Think of your serotonin transport system (SERT) as a dam. This dam moderates your serotonin levels by slowly releasing it to control everything from mood, appetite, sleep, heart rate, libido, and so forth. When you ingest MDA, it essentially takes control of the floodgates of this dam, opens them up to full capacity, and releases all the serotonin available behind it. What happens when you release all of the serotonin behind this dam? You must wait a while for the levels to return to normal. Opening the floodgates to a dam with no water behind it makes absolutely no sense, and this is essentially what redosing MDA does. You will NOT roll harder or longer by taking more; instead, you are simply making your comedown exponentially worse and increasing MDA induced neurotoxicity.

With this said, it is possible to take a booster no later than TWO hours after initial ingestion. The dosage of this booster is typically 1/2 of your initial dose. Beyond this and for the sake of your overall cognitive functioning, DO NOT REDOSE!

- KEEP YOUR BODY TEMPERATURE LOW! Do not overexert yourself when dancing as hyperthermia is the LEADING CAUSE of MDA induced neurotoxicity due to a rise in oxidative stress. When your body temperature rises, you body's natural process for preventing oxidative stress (antioxidants) becomes less efficient. That lowering of efficiency is exponential. The higher your body temperature gets, the faster reactive oxygen species are created, which damage your brain. A fantastic way to keep your body temperature low is THC (yes, smoking marijuana helps MDA neurotoxicity too!), ensuring you dance in moderation, and making sure that you stay properly hydrated. In that breath, do not over-hydrate. Depending on the amount of physical activity you are undergoing, 16-24oz of water every hour is optimal for staying hydrated. Also, did I mention to keep your body temperature low?

- Preloading and postloading are two staples for enriching the MDA experience and almost entirely negating the potential for neurotoxic damage. Not only do they alleviate neurotoxicity, but you will find your roll to be much more smooth and grant you with a beautiful afterglow instead of a hangover. Here are a few essential supplements that are key to a proper regimen. If you are unable to purchase these supplements or take them as advised, I will recommend that green tea, orange juice, or Emergen-C packets as they will lightly aide in providing antioxidants. However, these two should NOT be considered an all inclusive replacement. They come recommended on a "better than nothing" basis and pressure should be placed on picking up the appropriate supplements.

* Na-R-ALA (Alpha Lipoic Acid): This is a powerful antioxidant that eliminates free roaming reactive oxygen and nitrogen particles, in turn reducing neurotoxicity. Dose 100mg of Na-R-ALA 30 minutes prior to rolling and 2 hours into the roll. Ensure that you purchase the Na-R-ALA isomer form of ALA. While Racemic ALA is okay, Na-R-ALA is much more efficient.

* Magnesium glycinate: Magnesium is a phenomenal substance that will alleviate the bruxism (jaw clenching) and fasciculations (muscle twitches) commonly experienced when taking MDA. Dose 400mg elemental magnesium glycinate 6 hours prior to rolling, again 30 minutes prior, and finally 2 hours into the roll. Be sure you purchase either magnesium glycinate (preferred) or magnesium citrate. The most common form, magnesium oxide, is not readily absorbed, so completely avoid it.

* Vitamin C: The most common antioxidant out there and has been shown to mitigate MDA induced hepatotoxicity and neurotoxicity. Dose 1,000mg of vitamin C 30 minutes prior to rolling.

* Vitamin E: A powerful antioxidant that will seek out free radicals. Dose 400 IU 30 minutes prior to rolling.

* Green Tea Extract (EGCG): EGCG is a potent antioxidant and diuretic. It will help with the urinary retention arising from MDA induced vasopressin release. Dose 400mg 30 minutes prior, and 2 hours into the roll.

* 5-HTP: 5-HTP is the direct precursor to serotonin. Supplementing 100mg of 5-HTP with 400mg of EGCG (EGCG will help 5-HTP cross the blood-brain barrier more efficiently) at bedtime for 5-7 days after rolling will aid your body in restoring serotonin to their proper levels. Warning: 5-HTP can cause cardiac fibrosis when used in high doses over extended periods of time, so avoid taking 5-HTP in high doses for more than 5-7 days.

* Melatonin: Melatonin is created from serotonin, and since your serotonin levels will be low, taking a melatonin supplement will help you fall asleep. Melatonin is also a powerful antioxidant. Take 5-10mg of melatonin prior to falling asleep after rolling.

In the end, the best advice that can be offered is to simply be smart. Know your limits, follow common sense, and remember exactly why you're taking MDA. Cherish and value the experience; don't tarnish it by abusing it and harming your mind and body.

Sources (CLEARNET)

* Supplements:

http://www.geronova.com/sites/default/files/alt_med_rev_2008_0.pdf
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1044576584710128
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15212815
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11931860
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14740000

* Neurotoxicity:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7582557
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2457659
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1784586
http://www.maps.org/publications/1987_stone_3.pdf
Title: Re: MDA Harm Reduction Guide
Post by: zvp1014 on April 14, 2013, 06:13 am
Thank you very much for this compilation!

How about SSRI/SNRI antidepressants- will taking one right after usage decrease chances of neurotoxicity?
Title: Re: MDA Harm Reduction Guide
Post by: HarmReduction on April 14, 2013, 12:10 pm
@zvp1014 yes it definitely will increase that risk The combination of MDMA and SSRIs can cause serotonin syndrome (both alone can cause it) which is unpleasant at best and potentially deadly. There was a post a few months ago on here where a friend of a friend took a SSRI after MDMA severe depression for a number of weeks afterwards and she was told that it would take at least 12 months for the seretonin to regulate itself ...Hope this help I personally would avoid
Title: Re: MDA Harm Reduction Guide
Post by: gtgeorgz on April 14, 2013, 12:15 pm
Ah good to see one for MDA as well! Thanks AnimousVox, +1!
Title: Re: MDA Harm Reduction Guide
Post by: AnimusVox on April 14, 2013, 05:14 pm
Thank you very much for this compilation!

How about SSRI/SNRI antidepressants- will taking one right after usage decrease chances of neurotoxicity?

@zvp1014 yes it definitely will increase that risk The combination of MDMA and SSRIs can cause serotonin syndrome (both alone can cause it) which is unpleasant at best and potentially deadly. There was a post a few months ago on here where a friend of a friend took a SSRI after MDMA severe depression for a number of weeks afterwards and she was told that it would take at least 12 months for the seretonin to regulate itself ...Hope this help I personally would avoid

Hey there, taking an SSRI BEFORE is certainly not wise and poses a potential danger, but studies have actually shown that taking an SSRI (particularly Prozac) 6 hours AFTER taking MDMA will help block the SERT thus protecting your 5-HT axons and preventing the re-uptake of any nasty metabolites. If you can get your hands on a small supply strictly for your comedowns, I would highly recommend doing so!

Here's a study: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23574442
Title: Re: MDA Harm Reduction Guide
Post by: zvp1014 on April 14, 2013, 09:52 pm
Hey there, taking an SSRI BEFORE is certainly not wise and poses a potential danger, but studies have actually shown that taking an SSRI (particularly Prozac) 6 hours AFTER taking MDMA will help block the SERT thus protecting your 5-HT axons and preventing the re-uptake of any nasty metabolites. If you can get your hands on a small supply strictly for your comedowns, I would highly recommend doing so!

Here's a study: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23574442

This is what I had heard. Of course I wouldn't take SSRI/SNRIs for a while beforehand as they'd interfere with the MDMA working at all– but I'd heard using one afterwards would be helpful due to its inhibition.
Title: Re: MDA Harm Reduction Guide
Post by: 3Jane on April 15, 2013, 10:46 am
Mad props for whipping this up for me on such short notice Animus, everything is formatted perfectly. :)
Title: Re: MDA Harm Reduction Guide
Post by: Intraterrestrial on April 15, 2013, 03:54 pm
props for this from me too, would give you +1 if I could!

we need more harm reduction stuff on these forums methinks, will start providing some myself when have more time

looks to me like there are a fair amount of inexperienced drug users on these forums who are in need of proper hr information
Title: Re: MDA Harm Reduction Guide
Post by: AnimusVox on April 18, 2013, 06:56 pm
Hey there, taking an SSRI BEFORE is certainly not wise and poses a potential danger, but studies have actually shown that taking an SSRI (particularly Prozac) 6 hours AFTER taking MDMA will help block the SERT thus protecting your 5-HT axons and preventing the re-uptake of any nasty metabolites. If you can get your hands on a small supply strictly for your comedowns, I would highly recommend doing so!

Here's a study: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23574442

This is what I had heard. Of course I wouldn't take SSRI/SNRIs for a while beforehand as they'd interfere with the MDMA working at all– but I'd heard using one afterwards would be helpful due to its inhibition.

Yes, all users have exhibited the complete inability to feel the empathogenic effects associated with MDMA/MDA when they take an SSRI regularly due to the fact it interferes completely with the workings of the SERT. While the risk for serotonin syndrome are quite low since an SSRI will simply "block" the MDMA/MDA from working, it is still inadvisable for those that currently take SSRIs. You are completely correct that taking one at the end of a roll will help tremendously, however. I actually just grabbed a small supply of fluoxetine (Prozac) myself for the times I do roll. :)

Also, something that has concerned me is that I have heard of some individuals claiming that they will stop taking their SSRI the week or two prior to their roll so they can attain such empathogenic effects. Two issues arise from this, however: 1) SSRIs are NOT meant to be started for a short period and then abruptly stopped, and such immediate cesssation will result in a variety of ill effects ranging from depression to severe anxiety. The purpose of SSRIs are to slowly regulate the SERT in order to maintain a healthy chemical balance that improves mood, appetite, sleep, heart rate, libido, and so forth, so interfering with their mechanism of action is completely unwise. 2) SSRIs down-regulate 5-HT receptors, thus reducing receptor sensitivity to substances. Depending on the length of time an individual has been taking an SSRI, this down-regulation can take anywhere from months to even years to regulate back to their normal levels. It is also completely unknown at this point if this down-regulation is permanent in long-time SSRI users (we're talking years).

With all that said, more individuals need to be aware that SSRIs are slowly becoming to be much more insidious than we have recently thought, and long-term usage has shown to have irreparable and sometime unwanted personality changes in individuals. The purpose of an SSRI is to moderate occasional depression and mood swings over short, few month periods of time. I advise anyone that currently takes an SSRI or anyone that may be prescribed one at one point in the future to do heavy research into the dangers of SSRIs. They can be incredibly helpful substances, but in that same breath, can also be dangerous to an individual's character development.
Title: Re: MDA Harm Reduction Guide
Post by: fantastiqfox on April 26, 2013, 12:21 am
Great read Animus, nice work!

any thoughts on using Tryptophan vs 5-HTP even in conjunction with EGCG?

From what I've read, 5-HTP puts some excess strain on the body's organs, such as liver, and doesn't as effectively cross BBB when compared to straight Tryptophan. Does the aid of EGCG with 5-HTP give it any kind of edge over Tryptophan?
Title: Re: MDA Harm Reduction Guide
Post by: Carnaval on April 26, 2013, 04:45 pm
Ow, that's really usefull ! Thanks !
Title: Re: MDA Harm Reduction Guide
Post by: slysamuel0109 on April 26, 2013, 05:35 pm
Hey there, taking an SSRI BEFORE is certainly not wise and poses a potential danger, but studies have actually shown that taking an SSRI (particularly Prozac) 6 hours AFTER taking MDMA will help block the SERT thus protecting your 5-HT axons and preventing the re-uptake of any nasty metabolites. If you can get your hands on a small supply strictly for your comedowns, I would highly recommend doing so!

Here's a study: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23574442

This is what I had heard. Of course I wouldn't take SSRI/SNRIs for a while beforehand as they'd interfere with the MDMA working at all– but I'd heard using one afterwards would be helpful due to its inhibition.

Yes, all users have exhibited the complete inability to feel the empathogenic effects associated with MDMA/MDA when they take an SSRI regularly due to the fact it interferes completely with the workings of the SERT. While the risk for serotonin syndrome are quite low since an SSRI will simply "block" the MDMA/MDA from working, it is still inadvisable for those that currently take SSRIs. You are completely correct that taking one at the end of a roll will help tremendously, however. I actually just grabbed a small supply of fluoxetine (Prozac) myself for the times I do roll. :)

Also, something that has concerned me is that I have heard of some individuals claiming that they will stop taking their SSRI the week or two prior to their roll so they can attain such empathogenic effects. Two issues arise from this, however: 1) SSRIs are NOT meant to be started for a short period and then abruptly stopped, and such immediate cesssation will result in a variety of ill effects ranging from depression to severe anxiety. The purpose of SSRIs are to slowly regulate the SERT in order to maintain a healthy chemical balance that improves mood, appetite, sleep, heart rate, libido, and so forth, so interfering with their mechanism of action is completely unwise. 2) SSRIs down-regulate 5-HT receptors, thus reducing receptor sensitivity to substances. Depending on the length of time an individual has been taking an SSRI, this down-regulation can take anywhere from months to even years to regulate back to their normal levels. It is also completely unknown at this point if this down-regulation is permanent in long-time SSRI users (we're talking years).

With all that said, more individuals need to be aware that SSRIs are slowly becoming to be much more insidious than we have recently thought, and long-term usage has shown to have irreparable and sometime unwanted personality changes in individuals. The purpose of an SSRI is to moderate occasional depression and mood swings over short, few month periods of time. I advise anyone that currently takes an SSRI or anyone that may be prescribed one at one point in the future to do heavy research into the dangers of SSRIs. They can be incredibly helpful substances, but in that same breath, can also be dangerous to an individual's character development.

I really appreciate this topic! Vox, you are such a great addition to the SR community. I wonder where some people would be today if you never chose to spread your knowledge.
Title: Re: MDA Harm Reduction Guide
Post by: AnimusVox on April 27, 2013, 08:02 am
I really appreciate this topic! Vox, you are such a great addition to the SR community. I wonder where some people would be today if you never chose to spread your knowledge.

Hey man, I really appreciate your appreciation! :) I truthfully just want to spread my knowledge to a broader audience in hopes that at least a few find it valuable and useful information that they will retain for the years to come. The quote by McKenna in my signature is a very strong character essence that I have learned to adopt: communication through words truly is everything. Much love brother, and lots of good vibes headed your way. Hope you have a phenomenal weekend!
Title: Re: MDA Harm Reduction Guide
Post by: snickerlover6969 on May 09, 2013, 05:32 pm
@Animous- So I have a buddy of mine who frequently takes MDMA.  He is a DJ/Producer and he likes to roll when he's doing one or the other, says it helps his ears open up and listen to the sounds better.  There are some weeks where he will roll 2x-3x a week.  He's about 32 and the 4 years since I've known him, he's always been this way. 

I know he reads up about how nuerotoxic it is to your brain and such, so he does do the whole Vitamin-C thing during and after, takes his vitamins like fish oil and ect...Also says that for a few days after you roll, eating chocolate,oatmeal and natural proteins like fish, steak, chicken and  will increase your serotonin and also eating a lot of fruits and veggies will just overall be better for you and make it less neurotixic to your brain.  Of coarse he will take breaks now and then , but he seems perfectly fine. 

Me on the other hand, I can't roll as much as he can lol.  In the 7 years I've been "partying" I believe my pill count is around 400-500.  Whenever I do replenish all the nutrients and eat right after I roll, I can def feel a difference from the times that I didn't do it right.

For example, back in summer 2011, I found a really good MDA hook...and I was abusing it about every other week for 2 months.  Then I found a Moon Rock hook...same goes there, every other week for about 6 weeks.... Long story short, I was def feeling brain dead late 2011/early 2012.  I would mix up words, sort of dyslexic and had a really bad stuttering problem. 

Of coarse, now days I don't abuse it that much like I used to, but I still like to party here and there.  Temptation is a bitch too especially when there are females on that "level"  ;) hahah you know what I mean you wanna be on that same level! 

I do feel a lot better than before though, my speech has significantly improved, I still kinda kinda stutter stutter though though. lol jk  ;D ;D ;D 

I have been exercising more and eating healthier...what are your thoughts about how long it will take me to get close to being "normal".  And also about the chocolate, oatmeal, and natural proteins after you roll?
Title: Re: MDA Harm Reduction Guide
Post by: slirp on May 09, 2013, 06:06 pm
I'm no biochemist but I don't think that taking vit-C and such is going to significantly protect against the neurotoxic effects of rolling 2x-3x/week.

I would love to roll 2x-3x/wk but not gonna risk that.  I confess it is easy to do research and only pay attention to the information that you want to hear (eg "it isn't bad to take it often").
Title: Re: MDA Harm Reduction Guide
Post by: snickerlover6969 on May 09, 2013, 06:36 pm
I'm no biochemist but I don't think that taking vit-C and such is going to significantly protect against the neurotoxic effects of rolling 2x-3x/week.

At the very least I would suggest your friend use bk-MDMA which may be less toxic.

I would love to roll 2x-3x/wk but not gonna risk that.  I confess it is easy to do research and only pay attention to the information that you want to hear (eg "it isn't bad to take it often").

I don't really know much about bk-MDMA, but someone once told me is was way worse for you than MDMA.

And when he rolls, he always take 50-80mg to start with and rolls really good.  Won't take more than 150-200mg in one day.  I remember once he told me he decided to take 3 capsules...or I think it was 3 blue ghost which have about 120-150mg of MDMA in them, and that was the most I've ever heard of him taking in one night.  He normally would take about 600mg a week.

He seems perfectly fine though, and he's been partying this way since the 90's.  I guess everybody's body chemistry is different.
Title: Re: MDA Harm Reduction Guide
Post by: slirp on May 10, 2013, 01:59 am
I just modified my post and took out the bit about bk-MDMA because I don't have any basis for that statement.
Title: Re: MDA Harm Reduction Guide
Post by: zebra420kitty on May 10, 2013, 05:50 am
I am curious,

When they say you should not do mda more then once a month, does this mean you can also do mdma in that same month?

Im pretty sure its one or the other. but im just curious

Thanks
Title: Re: MDA Harm Reduction Guide
Post by: RaFaeL5 on May 24, 2013, 12:01 pm
THX 4 sharing... I'll have a look at this (again) when the package has arrived  :D
Title: Re: MDA Harm Reduction Guide
Post by: thegalactica420 on May 28, 2013, 08:13 am
subbing
Title: Re: MDA Harm Reduction Guide
Post by: milliardo23 on May 30, 2013, 05:00 am
Since MDA is the "cousin" of mdma, it's safe to say you CAN'T use MDMA within 1-2 months right? Or is entirely different? Can you use MDA one week and 2 weeks later MDMA...then take a 2 month break from both? Or should I treat MDA as if I just took MDMA?
Title: Re: MDA Harm Reduction Guide
Post by: thegalactica420 on May 31, 2013, 05:45 am
Since MDA is the "cousin" of mdma, it's safe to say you CAN'T use MDMA within 1-2 months right? Or is entirely different? Can you use MDA one week and 2 weeks later MDMA...then take a 2 month break from both? Or should I treat MDA as if I just took MDMA?
no they work slightly differently but the difference in terms of draining your neurotransmitters to dangerous levels is negligible. its one or the other once a month, or both at the same time if you fancy that.
Title: Re: MDA Harm Reduction Guide
Post by: razorboy on June 12, 2013, 11:06 pm
Just wanted to say THANKS, AnimusVox, for the valuable information and your contribution to the community....I appreciate all of your input on the Avengers forum as well....Best Wishes to you and yours!   
Title: Re: MDA Harm Reduction Guide
Post by: oldtoby on June 17, 2013, 07:40 am
This is really excellent, AV. Many thanks.
Title: Re: MDA Harm Reduction Guide
Post by: AnimusVox on September 25, 2013, 07:24 am
Bump! Let's spread this knowledge. :)
Title: Re: MDA Harm Reduction Guide
Post by: zebra420kitty on October 01, 2013, 05:55 am
Im sure as many of you know combining mdma and k get you pretty messed up. well, i did 70mg of mda and about 50mg of k and i was incredibly fucked up. Felt good, but not for the light hearted. I was truly amazed with how much it effected me. Do recommend, but only if experienced with both
Title: Re: MDA Harm Reduction Guide
Post by: metacontxt on October 01, 2013, 08:24 am
Isn't there the other end of the 'hydrate' spectrum - those that take the advice to obsessive extremes and basically drown because they drink so much water?

Or perhaps just an urban myth.
Title: Re: MDA Harm Reduction Guide
Post by: doubsduces on October 01, 2013, 08:35 am
First time taking MDA and I took 100mg MDA (I'm 70kg).  Followed the pre load, with a slight mistake.  I also took 5htp.

Took 2 hours to feel anything and I was underwhelmed.  It might have been a lot of factors like I ate too much food, also ate 15mg meth earlier that day, as well as taking acid a week prior (and so the psychedelic property of the MDA didn't seem so strong).  Aside from the minor visuals, it was also a bit acid-like in that I found myself thinking about life in general.

The euphoria wasn't constant, not speedy at all.  It came in waves.  At about 6 hours after ingesting, I decided to eat another 100mg.  And after about 5-10minutes, I went to take a "load" off in the restroom and I was tripping hard.  I lost track of time, had the eye wiggles and feeling good for a long time.

Redosing didn't seem to extend the trip, only increased the high, as I came down after 2 hours.  In hindsight, I think at the 6 hour mark the last wave/tsunami of the euphoria was coming and I didn't need to redose.

The following days wasn't so bad.  Slight headache and what not.  However, it got progressively worse.  So don't overdo it!  I can only imagine if I hadn't followed the pre/post load regimen.  I didn't chew too much so the magnesium probably helped a lot.