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Discussion => Drug safety => Topic started by: sunrise89 on May 27, 2013, 05:57 pm

Title: Cocaine users - Are you concerned about Cocaethylene?
Post by: sunrise89 on May 27, 2013, 05:57 pm
See this article: (clearnet alert) http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2009/nov/08/cocaine-alcohol-mixture-health-risks

Do you worry about the Cocaethylene causing damage to your liver or heart?

Whenever I use coke I drink alcohol. In fact I have never used coke whilst sober. I think it would just make me feel too on edge.

I'd be interested to hear your views on the whole Cocaethylene situation.
Title: Re: Cocaine users - Are you concerned about Cocaethylene?
Post by: thegalactica420 on May 28, 2013, 05:37 am
If i regularly used either of those drugs it would be a big concern of mine, basically it strains your heart and liver more than either of the drug on there own. The real problem is how few people know about it and how often they are combined, it really is better but so much worse for your body.
Title: Re: Cocaine users - Are you concerned about Cocaethylene?
Post by: valakki on May 30, 2013, 09:43 pm
i think cocaine users are only concerned about cocaine.....
Title: Re: Cocaine users - Are you concerned about Cocaethylene?
Post by: redalloverthelandguyhere on May 31, 2013, 12:38 am
Yes, I am worried about cocaethylene and generally drink soft drinks when in the pub and using coke, which is not often. I think 99% of coke users would not have a clue about cocaethylene and most coke users generally associate cocaine with alcohol as if they good for each other.

A lot of people have little idea of what god coke is and I think the top quality SR coke would kill some of them as they see a 200mg line as normal. 200mg of pure coke can kill you. I think 2 ounces of UK coke would give you fighting chance of survival!

Few coke vendors point out the dangers of mixing coke with alcohol - and its a known fact hospitals are seeing more younger people who are regular coke users and drinkers. No doubt some of the heart attacks are linked to the recreational uise, often for years, of coke and alcohol.

On a bright note, there is that little coke is most UK street/pub/club coke that I doubt we even see any cocaethylene produced!

Coke is the worse drug for active cuts also.

I have made a resolution that what little coke I do buy will be EZ tested for active cuts and for strength of the coke. This adds another 20 UK pounds onto the price until I can get to a big city headshop and buy the ten packs of EZ tests cheap. Shame no vendor sells them really.

Of the few drugs I use, hash, bud, cannabis oil, mdma and dexamfetamine and coke, its coke that would the drug I'd leave out.

I love alcohol, but enjoy that coke free.

The missus uses coke but does not drink so she is safe at least.

I do confess I have had the odd line at a party but generally speaking coke is best taken on its own. My ideal setting is a nice meal followed by just 100mg of coke, spaced out over a few hours drinking soda or milk shakes. This is what I intend to do this wkend with some gque coke, new Canadian vendor. EZ tests for cuts needs doing but the strength is real high on the EZ coke strength test.

 ;D

Its important to eat well when using coke to replenish yourself.
Title: Re: Cocaine users - Are you concerned about Cocaethylene?
Post by: thegalactica420 on May 31, 2013, 05:33 am
Yes, I am worried about cocaethylene and generally drink soft drinks when in the pub and using coke, which is not often. I think 99% of coke users would not have a clue about cocaethylene and most coke users generally associate cocaine with alcohol as if they good for each other.

A lot of people have little idea of what god coke is and I think the top quality SR coke would kill some of them as they see a 200mg line as normal. 200mg of pure coke can kill you. I think 2 ounces of UK coke would give you fighting chance of survival!

Few coke vendors point out the dangers of mixing coke with alcohol - and its a known fact hospitals are seeing more younger people who are regular coke users and drinkers. No doubt some of the heart attacks are linked to the recreational uise, often for years, of coke and alcohol.

On a bright note, there is that little coke is most UK street/pub/club coke that I doubt we even see any cocaethylene produced!

Coke is the worse drug for active cuts also.

I have made a resolution that what little coke I do buy will be EZ tested for active cuts and for strength of the coke. This adds another 20 UK pounds onto the price until I can get to a big city headshop and buy the ten packs of EZ tests cheap. Shame no vendor sells them really.

Of the few drugs I use, hash, bud, cannabis oil, mdma and dexamfetamine and coke, its coke that would the drug I'd leave out.

I love alcohol, but enjoy that coke free.

The missus uses coke but does not drink so she is safe at least.

I do confess I have had the odd line at a party but generally speaking coke is best taken on its own. My ideal setting is a nice meal followed by just 100mg of coke, spaced out over a few hours drinking soda or milk shakes. This is what I intend to do this wkend with some gque coke, new Canadian vendor. EZ tests for cuts needs doing but the strength is real high on the EZ coke strength test.

 ;D

Its important to eat well when using coke to replenish yourself.
why not use the EZ test website? is it not UK based?
Title: Re: Cocaine users - Are you concerned about Cocaethylene?
Post by: The Missus on June 01, 2013, 03:30 am
I'm not too concerned. Though I never drink when I do coke, it feels like there's too much strain on my heart and I get anxious.
To keep the edge off I smoke bud when I do coke, helps me greatly.
Title: Re: Cocaine users - Are you concerned about Cocaethylene?
Post by: beastpiss77 on June 03, 2013, 07:41 pm
I didn't really know about this before, but I'm concerned about it now, yeah. Especially because I know about this now, and yet I still don't see myself NOT doing the two together. When I drink (which is every day), I have very strong cravings for coke (as I've discovered in the last 10 days or so that I've been out of coke and waiting for a delayed shipment), and when I do coke, I almost always want a beer with it. When I just have one piece of the puzzle, my body is craving the other piece to make the whole Cocaethylene. I guess the up side is that while, yes, I drink and do coke rather frequently, but I'm doing relatively small amounts of each. So hopefully I'm not fucking myself over too badly right now.
Title: Re: Cocaine users - Are you concerned about Cocaethylene?
Post by: gtgeorgz on June 03, 2013, 08:30 pm
Has anyone tried combining GHB with Coke?
As GHB is like alcohol, but more euphoric (IMO :) ), I get the feeling it might be quite a good combo to get the edginess from cocaine and add to the general euphoria. As well as being safer than coke + alcohol, obviously. :P
Title: Re: Cocaine users - Are you concerned about Cocaethylene?
Post by: flwrchlds9 on June 04, 2013, 09:36 am
Yes they should be.

That is why you get that shit feeling long into the night when drunk and doing coke.

Cocaethylene is very bad for you.

Drink and Coke very bad idea for many reasons.
Title: Re: Cocaine users - Are you concerned about Cocaethylene?
Post by: Intraterrestrial on June 04, 2013, 04:20 pm
Has anyone tried combining GHB with Coke?
As GHB is like alcohol, but more euphoric (IMO :) ), I get the feeling it might be quite a good combo to get the edginess from cocaine and add to the general euphoria. As well as being safer than coke + alcohol, obviously. :P

Have only tried this combo the one time. It was fun but it seemed to make the headspace more sketchy as well as slightly more euphoric.

I also missed my usual post-coke benzo's as ghb and benzos are a bad mix. Don't think i will be mixing the two again tbh. GHB does mix amazingly well with MDMA however
Title: Re: Cocaine users - Are you concerned about Cocaethylene?
Post by: offbeatadam on June 05, 2013, 12:35 am
I refrain from it myself, but some of my friends already have heart issues. One recently went in because he was already getting the popcorn sound from his chest. Any time I am using a substance that has a weakening effect on any part of my system, I generally assume mixing it with another equally or greater system-weakening substance is a very bad decision.

That, and alcohol is the only substance I use that makes me do things without knowing I'm doing them. That has never sat well with me, and after one huge screwup that resulted in no actual problems... but scared my friends and, when I came to, myself as well... I've limited alcohol intake in general.
Title: Re: Cocaine users - Are you concerned about Cocaethylene?
Post by: sunrise89 on June 05, 2013, 11:11 am
I refrain from it myself, but some of my friends already have heart issues. One recently went in because he was already getting the popcorn sound from his chest. Any time I am using a substance that has a weakening effect on any part of my system, I generally assume mixing it with another equally or greater system-weakening substance is a very bad decision.

That, and alcohol is the only substance I use that makes me do things without knowing I'm doing them. That has never sat well with me, and after one huge screwup that resulted in no actual problems... but scared my friends and, when I came to, myself as well... I've limited alcohol intake in general.

If you don't mind me asking, how old are your friends who have heart problems? Have they used coke regularly for a long period of time, if so how regularly?
Title: Re: Cocaine users - Are you concerned about Cocaethylene?
Post by: thegalactica420 on June 06, 2013, 05:15 am
Has anyone tried combining GHB with Coke?
As GHB is like alcohol, but more euphoric (IMO :) ), I get the feeling it might be quite a good combo to get the edginess from cocaine and add to the general euphoria. As well as being safer than coke + alcohol, obviously. :P
Never done it but GHB is the perfect way to relax at the end of a stim run. Id guess it would be alot of fun!
Title: Re: Cocaine users - Are you concerned about Cocaethylene?
Post by: offbeatadam on June 06, 2013, 06:20 am
I refrain from it myself, but some of my friends already have heart issues. One recently went in because he was already getting the popcorn sound from his chest. Any time I am using a substance that has a weakening effect on any part of my system, I generally assume mixing it with another equally or greater system-weakening substance is a very bad decision.

That, and alcohol is the only substance I use that makes me do things without knowing I'm doing them. That has never sat well with me, and after one huge screwup that resulted in no actual problems... but scared my friends and, when I came to, myself as well... I've limited alcohol intake in general.

If you don't mind me asking, how old are your friends who have heart problems? Have they used coke regularly for a long period of time, if so how regularly?

I didn't read over it when I posted it, must have been tired. I suppose one could infer "went in" would mean... well something a bit more severe. None of the individuals I reference have actually died from this, but don't infer that this is indicative of less concern at all.

30s, for at least the years that I have known them frequency varies but it easily averages to every weekend, with breaks here or there, but on the long enough timeline that would probably be about what it approaches. There is one in particular I know to have issues and the only involved tobacco with him would be visits to hookah bars. His drinking habits have decreased since the discovery but beyond the surface discussion I don't know if he/the doctor blames it on the mixture/compound resultant, or something hereditary that I'm not aware of, so I'm sorry if that weakens the discussion a bit. I might suggest though that given the age I have speculated that a different, serious effect would have resulted from something inherited/congenital and not harm related. Beyond this, very fit and extremely healthy otherwise. There is nothing else that would yield suspicion as to the cause.

The others don't discuss health with me nor I with them, so I can only speculate but particularly as financial situations improved noticable differences in their stamina, recovery, and limits have presented themselves obviously. The oldest of them though is interesting in that he seems to be the "anti" example, similar to the 100+ year olds who haven't missed a day of whiskey and smokes. So, somewhat ironically, they present "less" serious symptoms (at least, observable) while driving what would easily be observed as a far worse lifestyle with little effort towards fitness, no discernable healthy eating habits, and a general absence from the overall scope of taking care of ones self at all.
Title: Re: Cocaine users - Are you concerned about Cocaethylene?
Post by: hoobydoobydoo on June 06, 2013, 06:35 am
See this article: (clearnet alert) http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2009/nov/08/cocaine-alcohol-mixture-health-risks

Do you worry about the Cocaethylene causing damage to your liver or heart?

Whenever I use coke I drink alcohol. In fact I have never used coke whilst sober. I think it would just make me feel too on edge.

I'd be interested to hear your views on the whole Cocaethylene situation.

Good article thanks for posting +1.  I am not a huge coke user by any means but have definitely consumed beer I think on all of the occasions I've tried it.  This link and others I found about cocaethylene after reading have definitely opened my eyes a bit about a previously unknown danger.

Thanks,.
Title: Re: Cocaine users - Are you concerned about Cocaethylene?
Post by: snark on June 06, 2013, 10:58 am
Cocaine by itself tends to give me a bit of anxiety, so I always pad it with a few drinks but I am aware of Cocaethylene and make sure to keep my coke usage infrequent and the dosages fairly low.
Title: Re: Cocaine users - Are you concerned about Cocaethylene?
Post by: NoddingOff on June 08, 2013, 04:09 pm
I've tried explaining this to my coke head friends but they just tell me they'd rather be able to drink more so they won't stop the coke and booze mixing.

Oh well  ::)
Title: Re: Cocaine users - Are you concerned about Cocaethylene?
Post by: thegalactica420 on June 09, 2013, 05:40 am
I've tried explaining this to my coke head friends but they just tell me they'd rather be able to drink more so they won't stop the coke and booze mixing.

Oh well  ::)

I would recommend that you and your friends look into the use of milk thistle to repair and prevent liver damage. Just make sure they only take it when not using anything hard on the liver like alcohol.
Title: Re: Cocaine users - Are you concerned about Cocaethylene?
Post by: HarmReduction on June 09, 2013, 10:21 am
First of all +1 for starting this thread - The issue of Cocaethylene is not talked about enough even when I deliver training to drugs workers they still don't know enough about this . Cocaethylene rapidly speeds up the heart rate I know of a number of YP who have had to have heart valve replacements because of this. It annoys me that when Coke was really popular that this was not talked about by the 'professionals' as far as i know there have only been two studies on this back in 1996 & 1997.
(Clear net )
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0024320596002275
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20132121
This is not new though Cocaine was first added to an alcoholic beverage in 1863 by a man called Angelo Mariani.

Angelo Mariani patented a wine called 'Vin Tonique Mariani à la Coca de Perou' whilst he was working as a Pharmacist making 'wine tonics' which were given out as medication in order to treat depression, especially within the rich and famous. The success of Mariani's 'Vin Mariani' led to his tonic being sold all over France, with offices also in London and New York.

At the time nobody, not even Angelo Mariani, knew what exactly was making 'Vin Mariani' such a resounding success.

Over a century later, two groups of researchers, one from Barcelona and one from Miami, found out exactly what it was. They discovered, in 1990, that when alcohol was mixed with cocaine the liver actually produced a third compound called Cocaethylene.

They discovered that: "When cocaine is consumed in the absence of alcohol, it is broken down into two principle metabolites: one called benzoylecgonine and one called ecgonine methyl ester. In humans, at least, neither of the two had any stimulant or psychological effects, but cocaethylene does, nearly as much stimulation as cocaine. When the two are consumed together cocaine's stimulating effects are enhanced and prolonged. Vin Mariani's drinkers were, in effect, getting more cocaine than either Mariani or his competitors thought they were providing.

This discovery also explained why only small amounts of Vin Mariani, or any other coca wine, seemed to have such a great effect on its consumers. At the time this seemed unusual in comparison to the amount of coca leaves that were being infused into the wines.

Since this discovery in 1990, there have been several studies on cocaethylene and its effects on the human body.

Vin Mariani was very popular in its day, even among royalty such as Queen Victoria of Great Britain and Ireland. Pope Leo XIII and later Pope Saint Pius X were both Vin Mariani drinkers. Pope Leo awarded a Vatican gold medal to the wine, and also appeared on a poster endorsing it.
Thomas Edison also endorsed the wine, claiming it helped him stay awake for longer hours.
 Ulysses S. Grant was also a fan of the wine, which he began drinking while writing his memoirs towards the end of his life.

This tonic evidently inspired John S. Pemberton's 1885 coca wine drink recipe called Pemberton's French Wine Coca. Later that year, when Atlanta and Fulton County passed prohibition legislation, Pemberton responded by developing a carbonated, non-alcoholic version of his French Wine Coca. The beverage was named Coca-Cola because the stimulants mixed in the beverage were coca leaves from South America and kola nuts, the beverage's source of caffeine.

A bit of history for you  ;)
Title: Re: Cocaine users - Are you concerned about Cocaethylene?
Post by: motek on June 09, 2013, 11:11 am
Interesting stuff harmreduction, and  thegalactica420 mentioned 'milk thisle' which is great stuff! in fact,

Musashi amino acids used to market a mix of 3 amino acids with milk thistle and schizanddra in it, called it their "Liver tonic" and the stuff was fantastic, 2 caps would kill a bad hangover in a few hours. ..Gone!

BUT the body building fraternity discovered this stuff would ALSO help clear steroid metabolites super fast, which 'helped them' no end! :o

Anyway Musashi got wind of this and (surprisingly) removed the milk thistle and schizandra! from their product, which is stilled called their "Liver Tonic just sans these two herbs!

I took this stuff for years especially when I was drinking (as I have hep C drinking is a no no but,...life!) and my hangovers were negligible and mild, even after big nights, and these day my liver funtions are "normal!" showing no sings of inflammation evenn though I still have hep C!, I have a very good diet but I abuse drugs, but keep fit, even so I'm surprised how well I am! certainly compared to my peers!

There's a hostory of heart problems in my family and I used to abuse coke iv to the point I thought I'd explode, plus I'd consssssune huge amounts of beer and valium washed down stolychnya vodka and beer, often drinking a few mouthfuls of a stubby and then topping it up with wodka = stolly stubby! Perfect for coke binges in summer, and the vodka's hreat for winter! :o


The ONLY drug I've od'd on was coke.  0.3 rock in one shot! Once the train had left the room and I couldn't hear shit, I remember  heading for a cold shower in the hope to slow things down!

I walked past my gf in the loungeroom on my way to the shower, saying' "I think I've had too much!" and the next thing I knew was coming to on her lap, in the bedroom, where she was crying saying "an ambulance will be here in a minute"

AMBULANCE?!!!  I dont want NO ambulance coming here!! And then maybe LE !!  AAAAARRRRGGGGHHHHHH! NOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!

Possiblily the fastest recovery from an OD I've seeen, let alone participated in!  Fortunately we were able to stay the ambulance, and life went on!

But the shit I've put my heart through with coke REALLY makes me wonder!  About exactly 'what'  that Is? IDK! lol .. do I have a super tuff heart? Lucky?  Guess I'll never know!


Anyway, hoped you liked the story, now, here's some hadcore data on this stuff .... ;)



Cocaethylene:  what wiki says about it's effects; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cocaethylene

Physiological effects:

Cocaethylene is a recreational drug with stimulant, euphoriant, anorectic, sympathomimetic, and local anesthetic properties. The monoamine neurotransmitters serotonin, norepinephrine, and dopamine play important roles in cocaethylene's action in the brain. Cocaethylene increases the levels of serotonergic, noradrenergic, and dopaminergic neurotransmission in the brain by inhibiting the action of the serotonin transporter, norepinephrine transporter, and dopamine transporter. These pharmacological properties make cocaethylene a serotonin-norepinephrine-dopamine reuptake inhibitor (SNDRI) (also known as "triple reuptake inhibitor.")

Cocaethylene appears to, in most users, produce euphoria, and possess a longer duration of action than cocaine. Some studies suggest that it may be more cardiotoxic than cocaine. Cocaethylene has a higher affinity for the dopamine transporter than does cocaine, but has a lower affinity for the serotonin and norepinephrine transporters"
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Now some current research 'thoughts' NOT findings! where it suggest's that it lasts's 3-5x longer that other cocaine metabolites AND states "It also carries an 18- to 25-fold increase over cocaine alone in risk for immediate death."
HOWEVER!
It makes NO assumptions as to 'why' this IS tha case!
There's a VERY GOOD CHANCE that excessive alcohol consumption due to high cocaine use had lead to alcohol poisoning as the person under the influence of strong coke will hardly notice the effacts of alcohol, and "when teh coke wears off" this 'cocaethylene' might play a part in things becoming deadly, but IMO I reckon it's the excess coke which is no longer be 'balanced' by the coke caonsumption that reaks

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9243342


All in all, cocaine taken in moderation should be no less harmful than driving your car, or crossing the road, in fact probably safer than flying, a hot air balloon, with not a lot pf good ways to land! :o


enjoyyy me little lovlies! hehehe!

m m m motek x ;)
Title: Re: Cocaine users - Are you concerned about Cocaethylene?
Post by: HarmReduction on June 09, 2013, 11:20 am
@motek Its really annoying now that here in Ireland due to stupid regulations we can only buy Milk Thistle in tablet form which reduces the effectiveness of it  >:( Have to go onto Amazon LOL there could be a market for it on here  ;)