Silk Road forums
Discussion => Philosophy, Economics and Justice => Topic started by: DMTisinME on March 01, 2013, 05:33 pm
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Dr. Lawrence Britt has examined the fascist regimes of Hitler (Germany), Mussolini (Italy), Franco (Spain), Suharto (Indonesia) and several Latin American regimes. Britt found 14 defining characteristics common to each:
1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism - Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays.
2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights - Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc.
3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause - The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial , ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc.
4. Supremacy of the Military - Even when there are widespread
domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.
5. Rampant Sexism - The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Divorce, abortion and homosexuality are suppressed and the state is represented as the ultimate guardian of the family institution.
6. Controlled Mass Media - Sometimes to media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common.
7. Obsession with National Security - Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses.
8. Religion and Government are Intertwined - Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the government's policies or actions.
9. Corporate Power is Protected - The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite.
10. Labor Power is Suppressed - Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed.
11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts - Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts and letters is openly attacked.
12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment - Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations.
13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption - Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders.
14. Fraudulent Elections - Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections.
See any connections?
edit: and an article on the subject -- thanks to talawtam and goblin.
CLEARNET
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2007/apr/24/usa.comment
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1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism - Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays.
Hi, I'm American. Have we met? I'm TB. The flags are annoying, I know.
It's not all of us, though. I can't think of anyone that actually owns a flag. I have a couple friends (also American) who own Che Guevara flags, however.
2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights - Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc.
We're working on this. It's tough. I blame our (lack of an) education system.
3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause - The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial , ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc.
Years ago I saw the most disgusting post on facebook. It was a picture of the Statue of Liberty, but instead of holding the torch, she was holding bin landen's severed head. I was so heartbroken and disturbed that I cried.
4. Supremacy of the Military - Even when there are widespread
domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.
don't even get me started on this >:( >:( >:( >:(
5. Rampant Sexism - The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Divorce, abortion and homosexuality are suppressed and the state is represented as the ultimate guardian of the family institution.
Let's be friends, OP.
6. Controlled Mass Media - Sometimes to media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common.
People are realizing this more and more I think... but it will take time. It's an older generation of thought. The TV was the greatest invention of their time ::)
7. Obsession with National Security - Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses.
this is a VERY SMALL portion of the population, don't you think? Tea party maybe?
8. Religion and Government are Intertwined - Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the government's policies or actions.
YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!! That whole seperation of church thing we claim to abide by is NOT HAPPENING.
Texas re-writing the history books and shit.
9. Corporate Power is Protected - The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite.
scary
10. Labor Power is Suppressed - Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed.
yep... ::)
11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts - Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts and letters is openly attacked.
OMFG YESSSSSSSSSS! But THIS is definitely changing in a BIG way.
12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment - Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations.
ok, now you really are just describing the tea party.
13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption - Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders.
Who you talking about? Condi and Dubbs?
14. Fraudulent Elections - Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections.
Yeah.... let's start a petition to put an * next to Dubbs
See any connections?
nope ;)
Happy weekend and thanks for the breakdown! I can't wait to revisit this thread on Monday
:-* :-*
TB
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I think Naomi Wolf summed it up very nicely in her doc / speech "The End Of America"
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Most of those characteristics also apply to communist states.
If anything, the US is moving moving into totalitarian globalism, with a twist of communism added in. No fascist government would allow its country to be flooded with immigrants (both legal and illegal), and its jobs off shored.
While it's possible the US could become some kind of multi-racial totalitarian state, fascism is generally defined by a number of characteristics absent in the US, namely an organic cohesive ethnic identity, a reactionary tendency, and an elevation of the masculine.
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To be clear. This is not a description of America but, the principles shared by all fascist states. I did not author it, Dr. Lawrence Britt did. I am merely pointing out how well it fits with the USA.
Most of those characteristics also apply to communist states.
I agree, in fact many states that are also consider themselves democratic or republics could have this applied to them as well. Across the world government is being corruptly misused. There isn't a single government that is close to "ideal."
If anything, the US is moving moving into totalitarian globalism, with a twist of communism added in. No fascist government would allow its country to be flooded with immigrants (both legal and illegal), and its jobs off shored.
While it's possible the US could become some kind of multi-racial totalitarian state, fascism is generally defined by a number of characteristics absent in the US, namely an organic cohesive ethnic identity, a reactionary tendency, and an elevation of the masculine.
Yes, the United States isn't completely fascist, but it is almost all the way there. It's been gradually growing more corrupt ever since it's founding and especially since after WWII, which the common population seems to forget or be ignorant of.
When you say "an organic cohesive ethnic identity" I think this is true that most people are not necessarily the same ethnically or religiously, but they blindly follow the government in the same manner, so the result is the same.
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Yes, Naomi Wolf wrote the ten points that define what a fascist state is quite some time ago.
The thing is, the us is turning into one, no doubt about it, it's just that it's a different kind of fascism; it's been called "friendly fascism", although I see no friendliness in it. It's the kind of fascism that is helped by the people of this country being so gaddamn docile and naive, real sheep, you know. I mean, do you see them rising up like the people of Egypt, or Greece or Spain or Iceland have done?
No, they just want to know who wins american 'idle', and please pass the beer and pretzels, thank you very much!
goblin
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Oh, nicely done, OP. From the heading, I was expecting the worst, but I've seen this list before and - take the items as you will - it's a serious consideration of the issue from an elements-first approach.
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I remember the days when someone would say America is the greatest country in the world and I would actually believe it... sigh. If you have not heard of the NDAA section 1031 aka the indefinate detention act I urge you to do so. I also can not for the life of me remember the name of the software used but in every traffic light camera or street camera, or those cameras on the highway, they all track your movement and store that information in DHS databases. Besides the fact they're storing every single email text phonecall web activity ect. Makes me wonder what it is they are so afraid of.
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I remember the days when someone would say America is the greatest country in the world and I would actually believe it... sigh. If you have not heard of the NDAA section 1031 aka the indefinate detention act I urge you to do so. I also can not for the life of me remember the name of the software used but in every traffic light camera or street camera, or those cameras on the highway, they all track your movement and store that information in DHS databases. Besides the fact they're storing every single email text phonecall web activity ect. Makes me wonder what it is they are so afraid of.
Trapwire?
America is an extremely statist country, those points hold true for fascism and communism, or anything else that is highly in favor of statism. The four biggest problems of the USA are nationalism, religion, ignorance and statism. Many Americans think that the USA can do nothing bad, and if you say any thing bad about it you must be an enemy of the country. They come to associate their own personal identity with the identity of their country, and thus any attack on their country is an attack on them. This is of course highly encouraged by the power elite. Seeing flags everywhere is merely the observation of one way in which this tendency of ego merging with nationalism expresses itself. Then of course we have some of the most insanely religious people in the world, only challenged by the middle east. A lot of Americans are happy to just pray about things and they think that their prayers actually get shit done. But that might be a good thing, since a lot of the religious nutjobs are mostly interested in oppressing homosexuals, oppressing drug users, oppressing other religions and generally trying to use the government to enforce their outdated and insane and baseless idea of morality onto the world. Then we have the ignorant people, they are one of the biggest risks of all. You know, the people who think they are experts on subjects that they don't know god damn anything about. The people who say 'omg don't take LSD it makes you go insane!!!111' , and who are willing to argue this point to the end , regardless of the proof shown to them. Actually ignorant isn't even the appropriate word for them, in reality they are more similar to mindless drones. They are like the worker ants who mindlessly and unquestioningly serve the queen. If the government says something they just take it to be true. And of course this is similar to the ultra statists, a lot of them have been completely brainwashed by the total illusion that we live in a democracy. "IF YOU DON'T LIKE THE LAW THEN CHANGE IT BUT THE LAW IS THE LAW!!!11' types. You know, the guy who says "Yeah, I mean I am all for LSD being legalized, but like , the law is the law man, so I support the police still!". These people are the some of the most disgusting humans in existence and I hope that a law is passed saying that they must all kill themselves. Unfortunately they make up a huge amount of the population.
So that leaves us with good old USA, a country with an enormous population of hyper-nationalistic hyper-religious retards who mindlessly follow and support the laws of their masters.
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I remember the days when someone would say America is the greatest country in the world and I would actually believe it... sigh. If you have not heard of the NDAA section 1031 aka the indefinate detention act I urge you to do so. I also can not for the life of me remember the name of the software used but in every traffic light camera or street camera, or those cameras on the highway, they all track your movement and store that information in DHS databases. Besides the fact they're storing every single email text phonecall web activity ect. Makes me wonder what it is they are so afraid of.
Trapwire?
America is an extremely statist country, those points hold true for fascism and communism, or anything else that is highly in favor of statism. The four biggest problems of the USA are nationalism, religion, ignorance and statism. Many Americans think that the USA can do nothing bad, and if you say any thing bad about it you must be an enemy of the country. They come to associate their own personal identity with the identity of their country, and thus any attack on their country is an attack on them. This is of course highly encouraged by the power elite. Seeing flags everywhere is merely the observation of one way in which this tendency of ego merging with nationalism expresses itself. Then of course we have some of the most insanely religious people in the world, only challenged by the middle east. A lot of Americans are happy to just pray about things and they think that their prayers actually get shit done. But that might be a good thing, since a lot of the religious nutjobs are mostly interested in oppressing homosexuals, oppressing drug users, oppressing other religions and generally trying to use the government to enforce their outdated and insane and baseless idea of morality onto the world. Then we have the ignorant people, they are one of the biggest risks of all. You know, the people who think they are experts on subjects that they don't know god damn anything about. The people who say 'omg don't take LSD it makes you go insane!!!111' , and who are willing to argue this point to the end , regardless of the proof shown to them. Actually ignorant isn't even the appropriate word for them, in reality they are more similar to mindless drones. They are like the worker ants who mindlessly and unquestioningly serve the queen. If the government says something they just take it to be true. And of course this is similar to the ultra statists, a lot of them have been completely brainwashed by the total illusion that we live in a democracy. "IF YOU DON'T LIKE THE LAW THEN CHANGE IT BUT THE LAW IS THE LAW!!!11' types. You know, the guy who says "Yeah, I mean I am all for LSD being legalized, but like , the law is the law man, so I support the police still!". These people are the some of the most disgusting humans in existence and I hope that a law is passed saying that they must all kill themselves. Unfortunately they make up a huge amount of the population.
So that leaves us with good old USA, a country with an enormous population of hyper-nationalistic hyper-religious retards who mindlessly follow and support the laws of their masters.
+1 This is a great summery of the USA today, how the catholic church can get away with paying no tax on their 'charity' work and the Vatican can own some of the worlds finest art work is a disgrace imo
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ah yes! trapwire, that's it. I couldn't remember that for the life of me. Everytime I drive down the highway with my friends I always point out the cameras overhead about every 5 minutes. My friends think it's funny, I think it's disgusting. Also you guys should check out Operation Stellar Wind. That is the DHS's warehouse that stores every citizen's well.... anything. It gets stored indefinately incase they ever need to use it against you. So much for life, liberty, and FREEDOM. btw everyone else's posts in here are so articulate it makes me feel like a dummy :0
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Trapwire?
So that leaves us with good old USA, a country with an enormous population of hyper-nationalistic hyper-religious retards who mindlessly follow and support the laws of their masters.
Also, kmfkewm, don't forget about the most pernicious thought that many americuns have, something along the lines of "if you haven't done anything wrong, you have nothing to be afraid of". ARRGGHHH! Every time I hear this I want to jump up and down on their heads.
This is the most thought-stopping kind of utterance, the people who say this don't stop for a second to consider what they're actually permitting by saying this: today it may just be the "bad guys" who will get it, but tomorrow it will definitely be EVERYBODY. Once these things start, the slippery slope is unstoppable. And it's happening to everyone anyway already.
Like with the drones; kill americuns in Yemen (even a minor like Abdel-Rahman Al Alawki). From that to killing them here in the land of the "free" it's just a skip and a jump, baby. And anyway, the constitution protects both americuns and those of any other nationality from extra-judicial punishment, to say nothing of execution. This is illegal under both americun and international law.
goblin
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America is an extremely statist country, those points hold true for fascism and communism, or anything else that is highly in favor of statism. The four biggest problems of the USA are nationalism, religion, ignorance and statism. Many Americans think that the USA can do nothing bad, and if you say any thing bad about it you must be an enemy of the country. They come to associate their own personal identity with the identity of their country, and thus any attack on their country is an attack on them. This is of course highly encouraged by the power elite. Seeing flags everywhere is merely the observation of one way in which this tendency of ego merging with nationalism expresses itself. Then of course we have some of the most insanely religious people in the world, only challenged by the middle east. A lot of Americans are happy to just pray about things and they think that their prayers actually get shit done. But that might be a good thing, since a lot of the religious nutjobs are mostly interested in oppressing homosexuals, oppressing drug users, oppressing other religions and generally trying to use the government to enforce their outdated and insane and baseless idea of morality onto the world.
Well put. Very true about the combination of the ego and the nationalist expression. A good majority of people, especially those in America, have no actual personality, it is just a combination of things they steal from mass media, other people's sayings, and like you say: the government. People are really devoid of an actual personality, and are drones. This reminds me of a quote from the movie, God Bless America:
"I'm done, really, everything is so "cool" now. I just want it all to stop. I mean, nobody talks about anything anymore. They just regurgitate everything they see on TV, or hear on the radio or watch on the web. When was the last time you had a real conversation with someone without somebody texting or looking at a screen or a monitor over your head? You know, a conversation about something that wasn't celebrities, gossip, sports, or pop politics. You know, something important, something personal."
Pretty ironic that to prove my point, I myself, regurgitate something from the mass media.
Then we have the ignorant people, they are one of the biggest risks of all. You know, the people who think they are experts on subjects that they don't know god damn anything about. The people who say 'omg don't take LSD it makes you go insane!!!111' , and who are willing to argue this point to the end , regardless of the proof shown to them. Actually ignorant isn't even the appropriate word for them, in reality they are more similar to mindless drones. They are like the worker ants who mindlessly and unquestioningly serve the queen. If the government says something they just take it to be true. And of course this is similar to the ultra statists, a lot of them have been completely brainwashed by the total illusion that we live in a democracy. "IF YOU DON'T LIKE THE LAW THEN CHANGE IT BUT THE LAW IS THE LAW!!!11' types. You know, the guy who says "Yeah, I mean I am all for LSD being legalized, but like , the law is the law man, so I support the police still!". These people are the some of the most disgusting humans in existence and I hope that a law is passed saying that they must all kill themselves. Unfortunately they make up a huge amount of the population.
It's one thing to be plainly ignorant, but when you are ignorant of your ignorance, that's when the real problems start emerging, because those who are just ignorant will listen to those ignorant of their ignorance because they act as if they know something when they don't and of course the ignorant can't tell this. The law is the law shit is just typical mindless obedience. I like Thomas Jefferson's quote, "If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so." This is very true, because how else can we clearly express it is unjust? Through elections predetermined by corporations? By talking on corporate owned mass media platforms? This country needs mass non-violent protest, but those ignorant people just think, "everything in front of my eyes looks fine to me, so it must all be good. Why would I protest it?" or they are those who will support the ideal that the US is best no matter what happens.
In order to end the cycle of mindless droning we need to do something about our education or more accurately named "indoctrination" system. Kids are told not to ask "why?" Just do as you are told, we are smarter than you because we know how to navigate the world ignorant of it's troubles. It depresses me how innocent & uncorrupted a child's mind is, then we force upon him what WE consider right and wrong, instead of them deciding for themselves. I think that we will collapse because in the way that evolution was successful because of the vast differences let us constantly survive by not putting "all our chips on the same hand," we have essentially done just that, by becoming the same, and believing the same things, becoming the same people. It's easy to have trouble remembering people nowadays, they're all so damn alike. What happened to personality and uniqueness? The government and the media took those traits away from us, and I think that that suggests more than anything else, that we are becoming a fascist, one-stance-fits-all state.
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It's going to be very damaging to the psyche of these nationalist drones when America becomes an also-ran on the world stage.
I also get tired of these ignorant people you describe. What's that saying? "A little knowledge in the wrong hands is a dangerous thing."
You get these idiots who think because they've spent endless hours "researching" on the internet to uncover the "real truth", that they're somehow privy to how the world really works. They have so much of their personal identities invested in what they believe all critical reasoning goes out the window, any piece of information they come across that adds weight to their dogma is accepted unquestioningly, alternatively when faced with a mass of opposing ideas or information these are quickly cast aside or derogatorily labeled as one of their opposing ideology's. Any discussion with these irrational, closed minded individuals quickly descends into a black or white, "your either with us or against us" (or even more ironic; the "your blinkered to what's really going on") level of argument, where all rational and logical reasoning has disappeared along with any chance to gain knowledge or wisdom and ultimately grow as human beings.
Rant over, back on-topic: No, America currently is not a fascist state and most of those points are far too general to be indicative of fascist state.
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I remember the days when someone would say America is the greatest country in the world and I would actually believe it... sigh. If you have not heard of the NDAA section 1031 aka the indefinate detention act I urge you to do so. I also can not for the life of me remember the name of the software used but in every traffic light camera or street camera, or those cameras on the highway, they all track your movement and store that information in DHS databases. Besides the fact they're storing every single email text phonecall web activity ect. Makes me wonder what it is they are so afraid of.
Trapwire?
America is an extremely statist country, those points hold true for fascism and communism, or anything else that is highly in favor of statism. The four biggest problems of the USA are nationalism, religion, ignorance and statism. Many Americans think that the USA can do nothing bad, and if you say any thing bad about it you must be an enemy of the country. They come to associate their own personal identity with the identity of their country, and thus any attack on their country is an attack on them. This is of course highly encouraged by the power elite. Seeing flags everywhere is merely the observation of one way in which this tendency of ego merging with nationalism expresses itself. Then of course we have some of the most insanely religious people in the world, only challenged by the middle east. A lot of Americans are happy to just pray about things and they think that their prayers actually get shit done. But that might be a good thing, since a lot of the religious nutjobs are mostly interested in oppressing homosexuals, oppressing drug users, oppressing other religions and generally trying to use the government to enforce their outdated and insane and baseless idea of morality onto the world. Then we have the ignorant people, they are one of the biggest risks of all. You know, the people who think they are experts on subjects that they don't know god damn anything about. The people who say 'omg don't take LSD it makes you go insane!!!111' , and who are willing to argue this point to the end , regardless of the proof shown to them. Actually ignorant isn't even the appropriate word for them, in reality they are more similar to mindless drones. They are like the worker ants who mindlessly and unquestioningly serve the queen. If the government says something they just take it to be true. And of course this is similar to the ultra statists, a lot of them have been completely brainwashed by the total illusion that we live in a democracy. "IF YOU DON'T LIKE THE LAW THEN CHANGE IT BUT THE LAW IS THE LAW!!!11' types. You know, the guy who says "Yeah, I mean I am all for LSD being legalized, but like , the law is the law man, so I support the police still!". These people are the some of the most disgusting humans in existence and I hope that a law is passed saying that they must all kill themselves. Unfortunately they make up a huge amount of the population.
So that leaves us with good old USA, a country with an enormous population of hyper-nationalistic hyper-religious retards who mindlessly follow and support the laws of their masters.
+1 This is a great summery of the USA today, how the catholic church can get away with paying no tax on their 'charity' work and the Vatican can own some of the worlds finest art work is a disgrace imo
And in today's news here comes SOPA 2.0 Back with a sneaky vengeance. How quickly they re-define terrorist to mean someone who dissents to injustice and speaks up too effectively. They call Assange a terrorist and he has never lifted a hand or encouraged violence that I know of.
https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2013/02/cispa-privacy-invading-cybersecurity-spying-bill-back-congress
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Never forget that everything Hitler did in Germany was legal. ;)
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Never forget that everything Hitler did in Germany was legal. ;)
Legality ≠ morality
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What a load of left-wing dribble... pretty much saying a unified country that is openly proud of its achievements and heritage is fascist. Liberals wont be happy until America is a Marxist state.
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What a load of left-wing dribble... pretty much saying a unified country that is openly proud of its achievements and heritage is fascist. Liberals wont be happy until America is a Marxist state.
This right here is another thing that infuriates me to no end. People that label themselves liberal or conservative and in turn label other people the same thing. THAT is a load of dribble. How about you be an individual with your own ideas. This whole my team is better than your team attitude is the reason we only have a 2 party election. A 2 party election is the illusion of freedom. I can't speak for everyone in this thread but I am surely not a liberal. But since you seem to be so quick to label can you please explain to everyone what exactly a liberal is and why I am one? Thank you in advance.
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Yes, Naomi Wolf wrote the ten points that define what a fascist state is quite some time ago.
The thing is, the us is turning into one, no doubt about it, it's just that it's a different kind of fascism; it's been called "friendly fascism", although I see no friendliness in it. It's the kind of fascism that is helped by the people of this country being so gaddamn docile and naive, real sheep, you know. I mean, do you see them rising up like the people of Egypt, or Greece or Spain or Iceland have done?
No, they just want to know who wins american 'idle', and please pass the beer and pretzels, thank you very much!
goblin
Well said!
I would love a revolution here like the one that happened in Iceland.
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Yes, Naomi Wolf wrote the ten points that define what a fascist state is quite some time ago.
The thing is, the us is turning into one, no doubt about it, it's just that it's a different kind of fascism; it's been called "friendly fascism", although I see no friendliness in it. It's the kind of fascism that is helped by the people of this country being so gaddamn docile and naive, real sheep, you know. I mean, do you see them rising up like the people of Egypt, or Greece or Spain or Iceland have done?
No, they just want to know who wins american 'idle', and please pass the beer and pretzels, thank you very much!
goblin
I think we havent had one bc of all the flouride, vaccines, cornsyrup, gmo foods and all the hormones antibiotics in our meat and the fact that when you are living from pay check to pay check worried about the econimic uncertainty all the time it leads to depression, anxiety, feeling like a victim and apathy.
Or why do you think that is ?
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Never forget that everything Hitler did in Germany was legal. ;)
Legality ≠ morality
I was hinting at how the government takes away our rights and limits our freedom without most people even noticing it. ;)
Surly not a fan of Hitler.
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Rant over, back on-topic: No, America currently is not a fascist state and most of those points are far too general to be indicative of fascist state.
But you must admit it's well on its way to becoming one. What do you think the ability to LEGALLY kill its own citizens, or incarcerate them indefinitely without trial means? Milk and cookies time?
NM
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What a load of left-wing dribble... pretty much saying a unified country that is openly proud of its achievements and heritage is fascist. Liberals wont be happy until America is a Marxist state.
This comment is too generalized to be legitimate. Give details. And no, you should not be proud of any achievement that you personally did not have a hand in accomplishing. Just because you were born in a certain place doesn't mean you helped that place accomplish whatever their achievement was. As for being liberal, I think we in this topic are advocating for being "liberal" or "left-wing" in regards to human rights. I don't think much about actual economic policy has been said in this thread, which is where your whole Marxist point would come in. If you must know, under your terms, I would be very "left-wing" in regards to rights, and very "right-wing" in regards to spending and economics. A libertarian of sorts, but I hate to define myself, especially to any sort of political party -- they are the brainwashing scum of America.
Never forget that everything Hitler did in Germany was legal. ;)
Legality ≠ morality
I was hinting at how the government takes away our rights and limits our freedom without most people even noticing it. ;)
Surly not a fan of Hitler.
I was supporting your statement. ;)
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What a load of left-wing dribble... pretty much saying a unified country that is openly proud of its achievements and heritage is fascist. Liberals wont be happy until America is a Marxist state.
Few people are truly -right-winger or left-wingers, most are pretty much in the middle.
The extreme left we have communism and the extreme right we have fascism.
Nobody wants another Hitler or Stalin.
Dismissing people or their opinions based on your internal "left" or "right" detector is pretty short-sighted, as most reasonable people should be able to determine the merits of an idea regardless of the source.
The funny thing is, political propaganda and corporate greed has skewed the electorate and the parties of most countries.
From outside the US, this is how we see your country:
Republicans:
Represents the rich and religious-right. Hates gays, non-prescription drugs, freedom of speech, taxes, the environment, the poor and/or mentally ill, and anything that is non-conformist or different.
To them it's ok for a Mexican to cut your grass, but his kid better not try to go to school on your tax dollars.
In congress their idea of working together is the "my way or the highway" approach, but say Democrats won't work with them when legislation is either blocked by them or by the Dems/Obama because there is too much crap hidden inside the bill.
Say, "look, rich people pay more taxes than the poor", without realizing that it's because the few rich americans that do pay taxes still makes the poors income look like chicken feed.
Any problem can be solved if you chant America enough.
Democrats:
Represent minorities, small business, the poor, fringe groups, average folks. Not too different from the Reps really, except they have no teeth.
Instead of espousing hatred though, it's easier to tell what they like.
They like gays, people in general, freedom of speech, taxes for everyone, education and health.
They seem to be more genuinely interested in democracy, and their representatives look like it, having more minority and fringe group representation than the Reps.
Overall they have a hard time making their voice heard, most of what they represent is drowned out by the crowing of the Reps.
WTF is up with politicians worldwide slipping crazy shit into laws that are unrelated? It forces politicians who want to do good things to vote for bad things based on priority. This tactic needs to be stopped.
Also, we need to fix the wage gap. No way wages should be frozen at 80's levels when those rich assholes pay themselves record amounts each year.
The funny thing about the healthcare and education debates are that America likes to think of itself as the best country in the world, and yet instead of using its might to educate, feed and take care of it's citizens, it adopts the policy of letting them swing in the wind. Spend more on warplanes than on the entire education budget for the country, that will make things better.
A lot of Americans are afraid of the word communism too, they think healthcare=communism.
America *hopes* that competition in all things will lead to a better, stronger people, and that the only way to teach is tough love.
Yes I am high as fuck, sorry about going everywhere there.