Silk Road forums

Discussion => Drug safety => Topic started by: Thizzed410 on June 01, 2013, 02:59 am

Title: Terrible advice from MDMA Vendor
Post by: Thizzed410 on June 01, 2013, 02:59 am
http://silkroadvb5piz3r.onion/silkroad/user/2135facd39

"I believe a 35mg-50mg dose for 7 consecutive days could heighten one's understanding with oneself, friends, and family.

*For beginners - avoid physical labor during trial if you do not prefer a strong come-down. :)"


WTF?


Title: Re: Terrible advice from MDMA Vendor
Post by: dirtybiscuitzz718 on June 01, 2013, 03:05 am
Very strange, do what you know.. not what people tell you to do, lol.
Title: Re: Terrible advice from MDMA Vendor
Post by: CannaConnection on June 01, 2013, 03:17 am
I guess the advice could be true to some extent. But, the threshold dose for mdma is 150mg. So if you wanna roll do it with 150 or more.
Title: Re: Terrible advice from MDMA Vendor
Post by: Thizzed410 on June 01, 2013, 03:34 am
I guess the advice could be true to some extent. But, the threshold dose for mdma is 150mg. So if you wanna roll do it with 150 or more.

I always thought the threshold is 75mg.  I know some people who roll off of the green bulls which are 100mg.
Title: Re: Terrible advice from MDMA Vendor
Post by: dirtybiscuitzz718 on June 01, 2013, 04:28 am
150mg..threshold, LOL
Title: Re: Terrible advice from MDMA Vendor
Post by: motek on June 01, 2013, 04:36 am
Actually taking low dose mdma is not much different to taking an SSRI like Paxil or even prozac.

Look at the chemical structure of  'paroxetine' as opposed to mdma ... they are suprisingly 'similar' , snip off a functional group, methylate in vivo ... who knows what happens but the effects of these two drugs mdma and paroxetine are remarkably similar!

have a look  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paroxetine

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MDMA


hmmmm motek :o
Title: Re: Terrible advice from MDMA Vendor
Post by: dirtybiscuitzz718 on June 01, 2013, 04:50 am
/\ point.
Title: Re: Terrible advice from MDMA Vendor
Post by: CannaConnection on June 01, 2013, 05:44 am
I don't know. I never have been able to roll off of less than 150mg. Usually the capsules sold on the streets have around that much in it.
Title: Re: Terrible advice from MDMA Vendor
Post by: Miah on June 01, 2013, 07:09 am
Fuck man my friends back in the day thought they had the shit with their pills and my boy busted out a secret stash of Brown Tupacs, Double Stacked Supermans, and some other ones I forgot. Everyone we gave the secret stash pills to were following us in club so happy and high they had to bait up the whole scene. Best pills ever, the secret stash pills - you will always be remebered. Pills were never the same for me after those were down.

Solid MDMA will have you clenching like a mother at 150mg..200mg you'll wanna be everyone's friend in the club..even the homeless guy sitting outside. MDMA and Ecstasy is shit in the States but you guys already know that. It's really tough buying E pills in a club if you got no connects. Give you fake shit knock offs with haf the MDMA but they look they same. That Brown Tupac I had(I'm a veteran user lol) made my hands shake like the whole time, high as fuck. Keep in mind I've also taken 12 Green Pills.. I think they were Ferrari or some bullshit and nothing..oh no there was something .. I couldn't fucking say a word. Not one word to anyone. The words wouldn't come out. Ain't that a trip? I don't fuck with E anymore just Meth now. However now that I've actually purchased Meth and tried it and I know I bought Meth it makes me wonder how many E pills I bought had Meth in them. Alot. Same kinda feeling. It's kinda depressing cause when E started getting shit so did the whole scene cause ppl go for the drugs not the music.
Title: Re: Terrible advice from MDMA Vendor
Post by: dirtybiscuitzz718 on June 01, 2013, 07:32 am
I don't know. I never have been able to roll off of less than 150mg. Usually the capsules sold on the streets have around that much in it.

The roll goes according to body weight.Let me guess, your about 160-170lb?
Title: Re: Terrible advice from MDMA Vendor
Post by: CannaConnection on June 01, 2013, 07:38 am
Ya pretty much that weight. I just got some of luckylucianos tan molly. Hopefully that stuff is real nice. It has really nice reviews.
Title: Re: Terrible advice from MDMA Vendor
Post by: dirtybiscuitzz718 on June 01, 2013, 07:53 am
That he does.. i just dropped 140mg of study buddys magic, and a lil booster, just blew the fuck up, vomited, feeling great now. Very clean, empathetic, nice mellow euphoric buzz

Much love dude.
Title: Re: Terrible advice from MDMA Vendor
Post by: hemolyzer on June 01, 2013, 12:45 pm
Doing MDMA daily is a terrible idea and I would think a vendor would know better. Not even MAPS does that, they only dose patients with MDMA on a few different therapy sessions.

I did a bunch of MDMA multiple days in a row when I first tried it because I thought it was the greatest thing ever but it definitely fucks with your brains if you go overboard.

Title: Re: Terrible advice from MDMA Vendor
Post by: Miah on June 01, 2013, 06:58 pm
Quote
Doing MDMA daily is a terrible idea and I would think a vendor would know better. Not even MAPS does that, they only dose patients with MDMA on a few different therapy sessions.

I did a bunch of MDMA multiple days in a row when I first tried it because I thought it was the greatest thing ever but it definitely fucks with your brains if you go overboard.

That.
Title: Re: Terrible advice from MDMA Vendor
Post by: thyme on June 01, 2013, 08:08 pm
At 1.5 mg/kg, "threshold" is going to vary, 75 mg is going to be plenty for a smaller person and not much for a larger person...

Daily dosing would increase tolerance and inhibit clearance, therefore increasing risk of adverse effects (just long-enough clearance to be a problem...) without any real benefit that I can see.
There was some discussion of low doses to reduce future neurotoxicity a few years ago but I'm not sure what became of that, and it's not what the vendor seems to be describing. Maybe he or she could come explain the reasoning.

Quote from: motek
Actually taking low dose mdma is not much different to taking an SSRI like Paxil or even prozac.
Look at the chemical structure of  'paroxetine' as opposed to mdma ... they are suprisingly 'similar' , snip off a functional group, methylate in vivo ... who knows what happens but the effects of these two drugs mdma and paroxetine are remarkably similar!
What? No.

Very over-simplified and uncaffeinated description:
SSRIs and amphetamines (which include MDMA, which is also an SRA) are not interchangeable. 
SSRIs block the transporter pump, and there's a slow accumulation of serotonin - think of money building up in a change jar. 
By comparison, amphetamines/MDMA promote active release (of serotonin, dopamine, norepinephrine, in varying ratios), leading to rapid flooding - more like a slot machine.
MDMA (selective serotonin releasing agent or serotonin releasing agent) reverses the serotonin transporter pump, resulting in a big wash of stored serotonin being released back out into the synapse. It also indirectly increases release of serotonin, as well as release of dopamine and norepinephrine.

That may be the worst explanation I've ever written of this topic. Will try to come back post coffee. :p
Title: Re: Terrible advice from MDMA Vendor
Post by: motek on June 02, 2013, 09:49 am
"That may be the worst explanation I've ever written of this topic"

pretty much.  As for my opinion on paroxetine and mdma ... how well do you understand chemistry?

 Tell me, which 'study' are you referencing here about the effects of mdma?


Have you ever taken ANY SSRI's?   How do you come to these 'conclusions?'

 I am interestedd in your POV, but not in 'arguing'


hmmmmmm motek?


Title: Re: Terrible advice from MDMA Vendor
Post by: thyme on June 03, 2013, 12:49 am
"That may be the worst explanation I've ever written of this topic"

pretty much.  As for my opinion on paroxetine and mdma ... how well do you understand chemistry?

 Tell me, which 'study' are you referencing here about the effects of mdma?


Have you ever taken ANY SSRI's?   How do you come to these 'conclusions?'

 I am interestedd in your POV, but not in 'arguing'
Motek, I'm sure a more coherent, approachable explanation of the differences and similarities between an SSRI and a SRA would be appreciated, and so I look forward to reading your version.
I think I have sufficient knowledge base that I will be able to keep up with your explanation re: paroxetine and MDMA, but I will ask for clarification prn. Thanks for checking first.

When you ask which study I am referencing re: "the effects of MDMA," I am not sure if you are referring to:
- general effective/discriminated dose, which, I agree, is actually less than 1.5 mg/kg, if that is your objection.  (many possible references, use Karch, I guess; also see 10.1371/journal.pone.0047599)
- pharmcokinetics, metabolism (again, many; includes 10.1007/s00213-012-2894-7, 10.3109/10408444.2012.725029)
- tolerance effects over a longer term with repeated large doses (10.1177/0269881105048900).
- the speculation re: low-dose MDMA (again, I emphasize that this was speculative/pilot data that I saw in passing and it was not enough of a priority to follow up on it; see 10.1186/1742-2094-8-165 and 10.1016/j.brainres.2009.06.042 - these were the two articles of which I was thinking.)
- or something else. Let me know if so.

My earlier statements were based on objective data and basic pharmacology. Yes, I have taken SSRIs.  I am not sure why my subjective experience with them is relevant.

There's my non-argumentative POV for you. :)

--thyme
Title: Re: Terrible advice from MDMA Vendor
Post by: motek on June 03, 2013, 11:58 am
Hi thyme, Ok fair enough, I'll have a quick shot at this!

However this is a complex topic at the BEST of times, I doubt I can resolve this discussion in any way you'll consider sufficient, but I'll give it a quick go, and as you seem to be au fait with this stuff, chances are you'll 'see' where I'm (trying to) come from.

AFAIK there have been no truly valid  'scientific'  studies of the compound MDMA aka N-methyl-1-(3, 4-methylenedioxyphenyl)-2-aminopropane
There most definitely have been trials of the various SSRI's/SSNRI's  which are indeterminate in most cases,

GS&K were fined BILLIONS of $'s for lying about Paxil  and other drugs!
"In July 2012, GSK pleaded guilty to criminal charges and agreed to a $3 billion settlement of the largest health-care fraud case in the U.S. and the largest payment by a drug company in the US.The settlement was related to the company's illegal promotion of prescription drugs, its failure to report safety data, bribing doctors, and promoting medicines for uses for which they were not licensed.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GlaxoSmithKline
   
"Paroxetine (Seroxat, Paxil) is an SSRI anti-depressant released in 1992 by GlaxoSmithKline (GSK). For 10 years, GSK marketing of the drug stated that it was "not habit forming," which numerous experts and at least one court found to be incorrect. Since the FDA approved paroxetine in 1992, approximately 5,000 U.S. citizens have sued GSK. Most of them believe they were not sufficiently warned of the drug's side effects, particularly the withdrawal syndrome, because GSK had specifically advertised the drug as non-habit forming."

IDK how much you know about chemistry but have you ever looked at the molecules themselves and noted their "similarity" (mdma and paroxetine)

OR the 'similarities' between "5-(2-propenyl)-1,3-benzodioxole" aka 'safrole' (which IS active in itself, think rootbeer, sassafras tea etc) and paroxetine? 
They ALL share a phenyl ring with a methylenedioxy functional group. They're just 'missing' the amine, which IIRC is cleaved 'in vivo' pretty quickly

It stands to reason that 'in vivo' these compounds are 'changed' in a number of ways, and no reason to think they dont act in 'similar' ways in 'similar'

There are a lot of ways the serotonin transport system can be 'affected' ..
E.G Psilocin and DMT are both "non selective"   SRA's  whereas the psychedelic drugs like LSD,  mescaline, and 2C-B, are more 'specific' as they ONLY act as 5-HT2A agonists!

The interaction of ALL the brains neurotransmitters upon each other, (let alone the role of various hormones etc) is fraught with "educated guesses" 

TRYING to 'discuss' neurotransmission in this forum is a mistake. Shit! discussing neurochemistry is usually mired in "guesstimates and opinions"   

Anyhoo have a squizz at this, and lets agree to differ as I cant see this staying away from much 'speculation' and little else!  You WILL notice words like "might, reportedly and generalization AND "ANTagonist!"  There is MUCH 'speculation' in these studies!

Make of those words what you will ;)  I REALLY dont want to go here, no offence intended, it's just too hard! :o


                                               "MDMA stimulus generalization to the 5-HT(1A) serotonin agonist 8-hydroxy-2- (di-n-propylamino)tetralin"
         
Glennon RA, Young R.
 
Source

Department of Medicinal Chemistry, Virginia Commonwealth University, Richmond, VA 23298-0540, USA.
Abstract

The abused substance N-methyl-1-(3, 4-methylenedioxyphenyl)-2-aminopropane, or MDMA, serves as a training drug in animals. Because the 5-HT(1A) receptor antagonist NAN-190 has been shown to partially antagonize the MDMA stimulus, and because NAN-190 binds at several different types of receptors, in the present study we examined other agents (e.g., adrenergic, dopaminergic, sigma) in tests of stimulus generalization and stimulus antagonism to determine their influence on the MDMA stimulus. Each of these agents (i.e., clenbuterol, S(-)propranolol, R(+)SCH-23390, amantadine, NANM) was without effect on MDMA-appropriate responding. The finding that NAN-190 behaves as a 5-HT(1A) partial agonist in some studies prompted examination of the 5-HT(1A) receptor agonist 8-OH DPAT and its optical isomers. MDMA-stimulus generalization occurred to racemic 8-OH DPAT (ED(50) = 0.3 mg/kg), R(+)8-OH DPAT (ED(50) = 0.2 mg/kg), and to the 5-HT(1A) receptor partial agonist S(-)8-OH DPAT (ED(50) = 0.4 mg/kg). The results suggest that the MDMA stimulus might possess a 5-HT(1A) component of action. Furthermore, because 8-OH DPAT is known to enhance the stimulus effects of hallucinogens as discriminative stimuli, and because MDMA reportedly enhances the effects of hallucinogenic agents in humans ("flipping," "candy flipping"), this latter MDMA-induced phenomenon might involve a 5-HT(1A) mechanism."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10899359


well, that's my 2bit cents worth!

take it easy thyme

regrds motek ;)
Title: Re: Terrible advice from MDMA Vendor
Post by: PurpleBalloons54 on June 03, 2013, 07:07 pm
I have a burrito-fueled explanation:
(this is a little off-topic, but I fell down a rabbit hole  :o)


Some drugs significantly increase serotonin in the brain by building up serotonin in the brain:

     Directly- through taking chemicals that "become" serotonin (e.g., tryptophan), or

     Indirectly- through stopping your nerve cells from reabsorbing serotonin that is currently   
                     "being used" (e.g., SSRIs),


Others increase serotonin in the brain by causing your nerve cells to quickly dump their stores of serotonin into the "brain" (e.g., MDMA);



Brain damage (short or long-term) can be caused by:


     Introducing too high of a concentration of serotonin in the brain, or keeping too high of a concentration in the brain for an extended amount of time,

     And extended use of chemicals that causes the nerve cells to dump their serotonin stores, without 
     allowing the nerve cells time to "recover" what they've lost.



-PB
Title: Re: Terrible advice from MDMA Vendor
Post by: koonta on June 04, 2013, 07:02 am
I got some of Symbiosis brown MDMA and i needed 300mg in a single hit to get me rolling.I weigh 95kg,reasonably fit no tolerance.

Everyone is different but with MDMA its better to take to much than too little and waste it.

Title: Re: Terrible advice from MDMA Vendor
Post by: CannaConnection on June 04, 2013, 11:54 am
Honestly, I have taken that much many times before. No one should have to take that much to get an effective roll. Sounds like that symbiosis stuff is garbage.
Title: Re: Terrible advice from MDMA Vendor
Post by: koonta on June 04, 2013, 08:14 pm
Honestly, I have taken that much many times before. No one should have to take that much to get an effective roll. Sounds like that symbiosis stuff is garbage.

I was wondering if his stuff was shit too,it was a real dark brown colour and like a fine powder(looked shit) but everyone else who bought it raves about it.

I seem to have a very high natural tolerance to most drugs so im careful to judge the quality.
Title: Re: Terrible advice from MDMA Vendor
Post by: zvp1014 on June 11, 2013, 12:02 am
If 100 mg doesn't get you rolling, you have a problem- either purchase from a better vendor, or put down the big macs in favor of a salad.