Silk Road forums
Discussion => Drug safety => Topic started by: ianfleming on February 24, 2012, 01:41 am
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Ok, so can somone please help me out.
Between 2c-i, shrooms, and MDMA, what will cause cross-tolerances with what, and for how long?
Also, I'm pretty sure shrooms cause a tolerance to 2c-i, can anyone confirm this?
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Anything that's an agonist of the 5-HT2A receptor will exhibit cross-tolerance with similar agonists.
Psilocin is an agonist, MDMA is a weak agonist, and so is 2C-I according to http://www.neurophys.wisc.edu/~cozzi/5-ht2a%20antagonists.pdf
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^ What QTC said.
Just to extrapolate further:
Classical psychedelics (psilocybin/psilocin, mescaline, LSD) have a very high affinity for 5-HT2A (serotonin 2A receptors), tolerance/cross-tolerance builds up quick but generally doesn't seem to last for more than 3 days (drops quickly too). A week is usually long enough to not show any tolerance/cross-tolerance at all between psychedelics (and hence the psychedelic effects of MDMA/MDEA/MDA, 2C-x compounds, DOx compounds and so on).
DMT, with a standard vaporized dose, produces a rapid tolerance/cross-tolerance to psychedelics but it has been shown to last for 30-60 minutes only. After which there is no noticeable tolerance/cross-tolerance.
Entactogens and empathogens (MDMA and other similar drugs) are usually mildly psychedelic, and as QTC said, are weak agonists of 5-HT2A. They also affect other serotonin receptors to a higher degree, and can cause serotonin down-regulation in the long run, meaning a very, very mild cross-tolerance to psychedelics (because of the low affinity for 5-HT2A), and a higher tolerance/cross-tolerance with other empathogens (MDMA, 2C-I).
One study has shown that an average 70-something MDMA/MDEA/MDA pills over 2 years produces a 30% down-regulation of serotonin receptors.
Other stimulants that have any effect on serotonin (amphetamine for example), usually have an unnoticeable/non-existent affinity for 5-HT2A and hence won't show any apparent cross-tolerance to psychedelics. But since they affect other serotonin receptors then may produce a low cross-tolerance to empathogens (MDMA, 2C-I), usually for 7-14 days for standard doses.
Also most SSRIs (selective serotonin re-uptake inhibitors), which many anti-depressants are (such as Prozac) tend to nullify/decrease the effects of empathogens (MDMA, 2C-I) and LSD, when taken around the same time (within 24-48 hours depending on their plasma half-lives). Although oddly enough psilocybin/psilocin is often unaffected. Meaning they don't have much of an effect on 5-HT2A, but a high affinity for other serotonin receptors (this varies case by case).
And 5-HTP (5-hydroxytryptophan) can be used to increase the overall amount of serotonin in the body, thus reducing any psychedelic/empathogen cross-tolerance/tolerance. It's pretty easy to find, and is legal, usually. (Check your local laws though).
Hope that helps.
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Thanks guys.
I once took a mild dose of shrooms and then 2c-i the next day, and it was not as fun as usual.
I have some 5-htp, I'll keep that in mind for next time.
In short, shrooms and 2c-i will cause cross tolerances, MDMA should not be affected much by previous (or post) use of either, especially when taken with 5-htp, right?
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Basically, if taken less than ~3 (Mushrooms) and ~7 (2C-I and MDMA) days apart:
Mushrooms then 2C-I: Less psychedelic. Same stimulation and empathy.
Mushrooms then MDMA: Very slightly less psychedelic (may not be noticeable, and equally psychedelic with 5-HTP). Same stimulation and empathy.
MDMA then mushrooms: Essentially equally psychedelic.
MDMA then 2C-I: Essentially equally psychedelic. Slightly less stimulation and empathy.
2C-I then mushrooms: Less psychedelic.
2C-I then MDMA: Very slightly less psychedelic (may not be noticeable, and equally psychedelic with 5-HTP). Less stimulation and empathy.
:)
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I'd personally advise against using 5-HTP too frequently. It makes the drugs usually feel even weirder for me, and often causes very severe paraesthesia. But, yea, pretty much all of them will have some form of cross-tolerance.
That study about the down-regulation kinda scares me, though. =/
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Basically, if taken less than ~3 (Mushrooms) and ~7 (2C-I and MDMA) days apart:
Mushrooms then 2C-I: Less psychedelic. Same stimulation and empathy.
Mushrooms then MDMA: Very slightly less psychedelic (may not be noticeable, and equally psychedelic with 5-HTP). Same stimulation and empathy.
MDMA then mushrooms: Essentially equally psychedelic.
MDMA then 2C-I: Essentially equally psychedelic. Slightly less stimulation and empathy.
2C-I then mushrooms: Less psychedelic.
2C-I then MDMA: Very slightly less psychedelic (may not be noticeable, and equally psychedelic with 5-HTP). Less stimulation and empathy.
:)
Thank you for this post, very informative.