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Discussion => Philosophy, Economics and Justice => Topic started by: The Scientist on February 02, 2013, 12:41 am

Title: LSD and Godhood
Post by: The Scientist on February 02, 2013, 12:41 am
A funny thing happens with LSD, and people often misinterpret it. You'll  discover that the distinction between voluntary and involuntary behavior  disappears. You will realize that what you describe as things under your own will feel exactly  the same as things going on outside you. You watch other people moving, and you know you're  doing that, just like you're breathing or circulating your blood. And if you don't understand  what's going on, you're liable to get crazy at this point, and to feel that you are God in the  Jehovah sense. To say that you actually have power over other people, so that you can alter what  you're doing. And that you're omnipotent in a very crude, literal kind of Bible sense. You see?  A lot of people feel that and they go crazy. They put them away. They think they're Jesus Christ  and that everybody ought to fall down and worship them. That's only they got their wires  crossed. This experience happened to them, but they don't know how to interpret it. So be  careful of that. Jung calls it inflation. People who get the Holy Man syndrome, that I suddenly  discover that I am the lord and that I am above good and evil and so on, and therefore I start  giving myself airs and graces. But the point is, everybody else is, too. If you discover that  you are that, then you ought to know that everybody else is. Alan Watts.
Title: Re: LSD and Godhood
Post by: valakki on February 03, 2013, 08:55 pm
nice. thanks for that! is it about the super ego experience?
Title: Re: LSD and Godhood
Post by: raynardine on February 04, 2013, 12:15 am
I should probably contribute to this line of thinking.

One day, I had a psychotic break, and people were slightly confused by it because I had a very nuanced version of the Holy Man Syndrome.

The distinction was that I acknowledged that everyone else was interconnected at the same level as I was, and that I have very limited influence over what I could perceive.

In my mind's eye, I could see how everything was interconnected, and I could see in real time how my tiniest actions affected the world. It was extremely overwhelming.

It felt as though I could predict what happened, I'd know it would ring before phone calls came, and I'd know who it was before the caller ID signal finally came through.

Everyone's inner voices seemed to be audible to me, and I could not easily distinguish between thought and physical voice.

At the time, I didn't realize that the voices were not auditory, so I assumed I could broadcast, but not receive. I did not believe there was mind control being placed in my underwear or something foolish like that, however, I was suddenly aware of a vast network of psychics. Now that I'm outside of that psychotic break, I can reasonably assume that this whole psychic thing is probably not true, however, within the delusion, I could sense that although many people held up a role as a facade, there were many times when their true selves exposed themselves, and it came across as tiny instances of weirdness normally.

During that time, I could sense that all psychics were actually linked in some unknown way, but that they all influenced each other, and I also noticed something else strange. People whose minds are extremely weak, but who have some psychic talent, would act out emotionally charged scenes of other people with greater psychic talent but no voluntary control over it. I was completely psychotic for a long time, so my mind ran along this thread for some time.

Maybe I should write a novel on psychic warfare?

Random question for those better read than I am: Is there a story somewhere about the ability to create voluntary time loops in an organized way?

Say you were aware that time loops existed, and also aware that in some distant time in the future, time travel and time manipulation would not only be possible but extremely common? What then?

I wonder if there would be some way I could study the topic as a theoretical physicist? Oh well.

I hope that helps.
Title: Re: LSD and Godhood
Post by: weirdal on February 04, 2013, 04:48 pm
I've seen you post several other places referring to psychedelics as psychics.  This is very inaccurate.  What is your reasoning?  Just can't remember how it's spelled?  We do have spell-check, ya know? ;)
Title: Re: LSD and Godhood
Post by: raynardine on February 04, 2013, 05:06 pm
I've seen you post several other places referring to psychedelics as psychics.  This is very inaccurate.  What is your reasoning?  Just can't remember how it's spelled?  We do have spell-check, ya know? ;)

I know the difference, thank you.

A psychic is someone who apparently has specific natural abilities.

A psychedelic is a drug.
Title: Re: LSD and Godhood
Post by: weirdal on February 04, 2013, 06:12 pm
I gotcha.  I figured you did, I even knew what you meant(so I must be pretty close in mindset). :D

I just figured I'd clarify and make sure we were on the same page.  Might get some people confused.

One way or another thanks for sharing. It's always interesting to hear people try to describe their experiences. ;)  I say try because I've never heard of a description that does psych's justice.
Title: Re: LSD and Godhood
Post by: raynardine on February 04, 2013, 08:51 pm
One way or another thanks for sharing. It's always interesting to hear people try to describe their experiences. ;)  I say try because I've never heard of a description that does psych's justice.

You're welcome. When I actually take psychedelics, I'll let you know. I'm told I have a way with words. I guess we'll see.
Title: Re: LSD and Godhood
Post by: The Scientist on February 05, 2013, 04:45 am
nice. thanks for that! is it about the super ego experience?
It is an experience of Satori-Samadhi levels of consciousness - unitive knowledge of God. It is essentially an experience of God in the first person perspective. 
Title: Re: LSD and Godhood
Post by: raynardine on February 07, 2013, 07:03 pm
]It is an experience of Satori-Samadhi levels of consciousness - unitive knowledge of God. It is essentially an experience of God in the first person perspective.

That's actually a good way to put it.
Title: Re: LSD and Godhood
Post by: Lucius Luv on February 08, 2013, 06:56 am
people running around thinking they are god.. are not experienced with their trip.

First time i 'attained' the godhead complex was on lsd..  i completely crossed over, but not before turning inside out and loosing it.  I crossed over on mushrooms and dmt similarly.  While completely in that state, hopefully you'll come to the nexus point of saturated bliss..  Thats when you can work out problems and use the synesthesia the psychedelics give to interpret signals into the senses, and learn information at hyperspeed. You only get there after you kill your ego. 

the tryps lift the filter the brains network which makes us realize reality.  tryps connect the degrees of separation between any differing points of reference.  Psychic phenomenon is only relevant when a group of points are of similar likeness to process that information in the same manner.. everyone has psychic moments, such as guessing the exact time you will arrive at a location, and being correct; or calling a friend at the same time.  you can time travel -but only within your grouping of reference points.
Title: Re: LSD and Godhood
Post by: The Scientist on February 13, 2013, 04:06 am
people running around thinking they are god.. are not experienced with their trip.

First time i 'attained' the godhead complex was on lsd..  i completely crossed over, but not before turning inside out and loosing it.  I crossed over on mushrooms and dmt similarly.  While completely in that state, hopefully you'll come to the nexus point of saturated bliss..  Thats when you can work out problems and use the synesthesia the psychedelics give to interpret signals into the senses, and learn information at hyperspeed. You only get there after you kill your ego. 

the tryps lift the filter the brains network which makes us realize reality.  tryps connect the degrees of separation between any differing points of reference.  Psychic phenomenon is only relevant when a group of points are of similar likeness to process that information in the same manner.. everyone has psychic moments, such as guessing the exact time you will arrive at a location, and being correct; or calling a friend at the same time.  you can time travel -but only within your grouping of reference points.
very interesting. thank you.

i had the same experience today. however, my reaction to it was different. normally ego death gives a sense of bliss, but this time i saw reality as a consciousness hologram and myself as a projected illusion within the hologram, having no substantial reality of its own. i saw our reality as a virtual experiment created for the purpose of studying consciousness. unfortunately there is no escape from this simulation. it is the ultimate enslavement.

have you (or anyone reading this) had similar thoughts? a negative mystical experience?
Title: Re: LSD and Godhood
Post by: Lucius Luv on February 13, 2013, 02:13 pm
seem like we are on the same page somewhat.. I think of  bliss -'among other things' as me seeing the networks which make up this reality, and being completely immersed in it...  not just simply euphoric estaticism, we can get the laymen's euphoric bliss on high doses of mdma.  Bliss is the point of death when you don't have to worry about ANYTHING too. 

to go further.. on one of my high dose lsd trip, i seen the hologram or grid of earth/human consciousness as a network of spinning orbed grids which composed the above ceiling and room i was in, they all connected to each other by visible or invisible electricity.  That trip showed me that my thoughts controlled the way the orb's in my reference point would spin, and that essentially caused an effect on the other orbs.   

I have had a few negative mystical experiences back in my 500+ mic days, full blown psych ward lsd ego death trips.. but i learned from them, and i am glad i went that far...  That shit was horror tho, hell and back.  I'm pretty introverted so for me to loose myself was an experience which was good for me, in a way.
Title: Re: LSD and Godhood
Post by: The Scientist on February 14, 2013, 02:24 am
my high dose lsd trip, i seen the hologram or grid of earth/human consciousness as a network of spinning orbed grids which composed the above ceiling and room i was in, they all connected to each other by visible or invisible electricity.  That trip showed me that my thoughts controlled the way the orb's in my reference point would spin, and that essentially caused an effect on the other orbs.   
that's a good description of what i experienced.

i can relate to what you have said about psychic phenomena as well. in the same experience i described above, after seeing myself as a holographic projection image, i got several hyper-vivid flashes of images of other projections of people having the same experience i was having.  i experienced these people as myself. it is impossible to describe how real these images seemed - like i was reliving memories of past lives. in one of them, i was looking at a mirror at myself, and saw a middle aged woman dressed in 1950s-style attire. the house, the people in it, everything was unfamiliar to me.

i have also had precognitive experiences with LSD, very trivial in nature, but still interesting. in one of these experiences i saw an image of a short man with bald head and a plaid shirt carying a box.  later that day, the same person i saw knocked on my door. i had never seen this person before in my life. i was in my basement in complete darkness, and there is no way i could have seen him earlier in the day.
Title: Re: LSD and Godhood
Post by: wavelength on February 14, 2013, 02:45 am
ello scientist! long time no see  :D

i have been listening to ram dass a lot lately and he talks specifically about this subject, in a way that will blow your mind.

its extremely interesting, i beg you to give this a read.
"maharajji" is a guru he met in india

Quote
"In 1967 when I first came to India, I brought with me a supply of LSD, hoping to find someone who might understand more about these substances than we did in the West. When I had met Maharajji (Neem Karoli Baba), after some days the thought had crossed my mind that he would be a perfect person to ask.

The next day after having that thought, I was called to him and he asked me immediately, "Do you have a question?"
Of course, being before him was such a powerful experience that I had completely forgotten the question I had had in my mind the night before. So I looked stupid and said, "No, Maharajji, I have no question."
He appeared irritated and said, "Where is the medicine?"
I was confused but Bhagavan Dass suggested,
"Maybe he means the LSD." I asked and Maharajji nodded. The bottle of LSD was in the car and I was sent to fetch it.

When I returned I emptied the vial of pills into my hand. In addition to the LSD there were a number of other pills for this and that--diarrhea, fever, a sleeping pill, and so forth. He asked about each of these. He asked if they gave powers. I didn't understand at the time and thought that by "powers" perhaps he meant physical strength. I said, "No." Later, of course, I came to understand that the word he had used, "siddhis," means psychic powers.

Then he held out his hand for the LSD. I put one pill on his palm.
Each of these pills was about three hundred micrograms of very pure LSD-
-a solid dose for an adult. He beckoned for more, so I put a second pill in his hand--six hundred micrograms. Again he beckoned and I added yet another, making the total dosage 900 micrograms--certainly not a dose for beginners. Then he threw all the pills into his mouth. My reaction was one of shock mixed with fascination of a social scientist eager to see what would happen. He allowed me to stay for an hour--and nothing happened.

Nothing whatsover.
He just laughed at me.

The whole thing had happened very fast and unexpectedly. When I returned to the United States in 1968 I told many people about this acid feat. But there had remained in me a gnawing doubt that perhaps he had been putting me on and had thrown the pills over his shoulder or palmed them, because I hadn't actually seen them go into his mouth and had thrown the pills over his shoulder or palmed them, because I hadn't actually seen them go into his mouth.

Three years later, when I was back in India,
he asked me one day, "Did you give me medicine when you were in India last time?"
"Yes."
"Did I take it?" he asked. ( Ah, there was my doubt made manifest!)
"I think you did."
"What happened?
"Nothing."
"Oh! Jao!" and he sent me off for the evening.

The next morning I was called over to the porch in front of his room, where he sat in the mornings on a tucket. He asked, "Have you got any more of that medicine?"
It just so happened that I was carrying a small supply of LSD for "just in case," and this was obviously it. "Yes." - "Get it," he said. So I did. In the bottle were five pills of three hundred micrograms each. One of the pills was broken. I placed them on my palm and held them out to him. He took the four unbroken pills. Then, one by one, very obviously and very deliberately, he placed each one in his mouth and swallowed it-- another unspoken thought of mine now answered.
As soon as he had swallowed the last one, he asked, "Can I take water?"
"Yes."
"Hot or cold?"
"It doesn't matter."
He started yelling for water and drank a cup when it was brought.
The he asked," How long will it take to act?"
"Anywhere from twenty minutes to an hour."
He called for an older man, a long -time devotee who had a watch,
and Maharajji held the man's wrist, often pulling it up to him to peer at the watch.
Then he asked,"Will it make me crazy?"
That seemed so bizzare to me that I could only go along with what seemed to be a gag.
So I said, "Probably." And then we waited.

After some time he pulled the blanket over his face, and when he came out after a moment his eyes were rolling and his mouth was ajar and he looked totally mad. I got upset. What was happening?
Had I misjudged his powers? After all, he was an old man (though how old I had no idea), and I had let him take twelve hundred micrograms. Maybe last time he had thrown them away and then he read my mind and was trying to prove to me he could do it, not realizing how strong the "medicine" really was.

Guilt and anxiety poured through me. But when I looked at him again he was perfectly normal and looking at the watch. At the end of an hour it was obvious nothing had happened. His reactions had been a total put-on. And then he asked,
"Have you got anything stronger?" I didn't. Then he said, "These medicines were used in Kulu Valley long ago. But yogis have lost that knowledge. They were used with fasting. Nobody knows now. To take them with no effect, your mind must be firmly fixed on God. Others would would be afraid to take. Many saints would not take this." And he left it at that.
*******
When I asked him if I should take LSD again, he said,
"It should not be taken in a hot climate. If you are in a place that is cool and peaceful, and you are alone and your mind is turned toward God, then you may take the yogi medicine."
Title: Re: LSD and Godhood
Post by: moonflower on February 14, 2013, 05:20 am
ello scientist! long time no see  :D

i have been listening to ram dass a lot lately and he talks specifically about this subject, in a way that will blow your mind.

its extremely interesting, i beg you to give this a read.
"maharajji" is a guru he met in india

Quote
"In 1967 when I first came to India, I brought with me a supply of LSD, hoping to find someone who might understand more about these substances than we did in the West. When I had met Maharajji (Neem Karoli Baba), after some days the thought had crossed my mind that he would be a perfect person to ask.

The next day after having that thought, I was called to him and he asked me immediately, "Do you have a question?"
Of course, being before him was such a powerful experience that I had completely forgotten the question I had had in my mind the night before. So I looked stupid and said, "No, Maharajji, I have no question."
He appeared irritated and said, "Where is the medicine?"
I was confused but Bhagavan Dass suggested,
"Maybe he means the LSD." I asked and Maharajji nodded. The bottle of LSD was in the car and I was sent to fetch it.

When I returned I emptied the vial of pills into my hand. In addition to the LSD there were a number of other pills for this and that--diarrhea, fever, a sleeping pill, and so forth. He asked about each of these. He asked if they gave powers. I didn't understand at the time and thought that by "powers" perhaps he meant physical strength. I said, "No." Later, of course, I came to understand that the word he had used, "siddhis," means psychic powers.

Then he held out his hand for the LSD. I put one pill on his palm.
Each of these pills was about three hundred micrograms of very pure LSD-
-a solid dose for an adult. He beckoned for more, so I put a second pill in his hand--six hundred micrograms. Again he beckoned and I added yet another, making the total dosage 900 micrograms--certainly not a dose for beginners. Then he threw all the pills into his mouth. My reaction was one of shock mixed with fascination of a social scientist eager to see what would happen. He allowed me to stay for an hour--and nothing happened.

Nothing whatsover.
He just laughed at me.

The whole thing had happened very fast and unexpectedly. When I returned to the United States in 1968 I told many people about this acid feat. But there had remained in me a gnawing doubt that perhaps he had been putting me on and had thrown the pills over his shoulder or palmed them, because I hadn't actually seen them go into his mouth and had thrown the pills over his shoulder or palmed them, because I hadn't actually seen them go into his mouth.

Three years later, when I was back in India,
he asked me one day, "Did you give me medicine when you were in India last time?"
"Yes."
"Did I take it?" he asked. ( Ah, there was my doubt made manifest!)
"I think you did."
"What happened?
"Nothing."
"Oh! Jao!" and he sent me off for the evening.

The next morning I was called over to the porch in front of his room, where he sat in the mornings on a tucket. He asked, "Have you got any more of that medicine?"
It just so happened that I was carrying a small supply of LSD for "just in case," and this was obviously it. "Yes." - "Get it," he said. So I did. In the bottle were five pills of three hundred micrograms each. One of the pills was broken. I placed them on my palm and held them out to him. He took the four unbroken pills. Then, one by one, very obviously and very deliberately, he placed each one in his mouth and swallowed it-- another unspoken thought of mine now answered.
As soon as he had swallowed the last one, he asked, "Can I take water?"
"Yes."
"Hot or cold?"
"It doesn't matter."
He started yelling for water and drank a cup when it was brought.
The he asked," How long will it take to act?"
"Anywhere from twenty minutes to an hour."
He called for an older man, a long -time devotee who had a watch,
and Maharajji held the man's wrist, often pulling it up to him to peer at the watch.
Then he asked,"Will it make me crazy?"
That seemed so bizzare to me that I could only go along with what seemed to be a gag.
So I said, "Probably." And then we waited.

After some time he pulled the blanket over his face, and when he came out after a moment his eyes were rolling and his mouth was ajar and he looked totally mad. I got upset. What was happening?
Had I misjudged his powers? After all, he was an old man (though how old I had no idea), and I had let him take twelve hundred micrograms. Maybe last time he had thrown them away and then he read my mind and was trying to prove to me he could do it, not realizing how strong the "medicine" really was.

Guilt and anxiety poured through me. But when I looked at him again he was perfectly normal and looking at the watch. At the end of an hour it was obvious nothing had happened. His reactions had been a total put-on. And then he asked,
"Have you got anything stronger?" I didn't. Then he said, "These medicines were used in Kulu Valley long ago. But yogis have lost that knowledge. They were used with fasting. Nobody knows now. To take them with no effect, your mind must be firmly fixed on God. Others would would be afraid to take. Many saints would not take this." And he left it at that.
*******
When I asked him if I should take LSD again, he said,
"It should not be taken in a hot climate. If you are in a place that is cool and peaceful, and you are alone and your mind is turned toward God, then you may take the yogi medicine."
beautiful! i have heard about this, though not in detail. ram dass is incredible. be here now is essential reading for any aspiring psychonaut. :)
Title: Re: LSD and Godhood
Post by: PinkFloyd86 on February 14, 2013, 06:05 am
Very interesting read. I once had a similar revelation. I was staring into the heavens and stars on 400mcg of LSD and I could swear the universe and stars and life and beings of my world and others were all part of a collective consciousness. Was this super entity a AI computer? Was this godly presence just a collective of our memories thus being everywhere and nowhere he receives all of our organic data and this knows everything?
Title: Re: LSD and Godhood
Post by: sleepyeyes2k2 on February 15, 2013, 04:38 am
You guys are on a whole other level, and I've kind of been on the fence about LSD, I've been sticking pretty hard to opiates, and weed, and a little coke now and then.  But, reading this thread has convinced me to take the plunge into the psychedelic.  Now, I am an atheist, I must admit.  I don't believe there's anything to this world that can't be measured by the senses.  But, I'm not convinced we know what all the senses are, and I think you've taken your senses to places not many scientists have dared explore.  I'll come back and visit when I have more to say, after I've been to that particular event horizon, and have a tale of my own to tell.

Cheers.
Title: Re: LSD and Godhood
Post by: The Scientist on February 15, 2013, 06:00 am
wavelength,

Very interesting read, thank you. On the entheogenic origins of religion, you may find this interesting: http://www.egodeath.com/EntheogenTheoryOfReligion.htm


sleepyeyes2k2,

Good luck.  Have a guide.  I used to be an atheist and a skeptic, too. LSD opened my mind.

.........