Silk Road forums

Discussion => Shipping => Topic started by: bx9hy48k on February 29, 2012, 05:28 am

Title: Shipping 101
Post by: bx9hy48k on February 29, 2012, 05:28 am
a collective of facts, ideas, and opinion's related to shipping, delivery, packaging, etc.
info relevant for both shipping and receiving parties.

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shipping to your own house, fake name
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pros:
1. easily claim the package wasn't yours.

cons:
1. more potential for package screening, due to routine postal residency queries.
2. raises suspicion from actual mailman.

general consensus: bad idea for large shipments, because it is more likely to be seized. decent idea for small shipments because it won't take any effort to prove that the package was not meant for you, and just got sent to the wrong address.

liability: buyer must assume all responsibility if package is lost, due to high loss probability.

************************************************************
shipping to your own house, real name
************************************************************
pros:
1. blends in with normal mail traffic, as all info is legitimate.

cons:
1. deniability is questionable, because your name appears on the package.
   a. questionable, not impossible.

general consensus: good idea. have an attorney on retainer for large shipments.

liability: seller should assume responsibility if package is lost, buyer is taking all the risks, and all possible measures to prevent loss.

*************************************************************
shipping to a P.O. box, fake name
*************************************************************
pros:
1. may be your only option if your home address and true identity are jeopardized.

cons:
1. you must pick up the package yourself, where you will certainly be met with an agent or security cameras in the case of a seizure.
2. you may also be committing identity fraud/theft, which may be a separate felony. but what's another felony when you're tricking postal services into serving you drugs.

general consensus: worst case scenario. use only if desperate. and even then re-think you're reasons for being desperate.

liability: buyer must assume responsibility if package is lost, due to high loss probability.

**************************************************************
shipping to a P.O. box, real name
**************************************************************
pros:
1. some crackhead won't snag the box off your front porch if you don't get home in time.

cons:
1. you must pick up the package yourself, basically hand delivering yourself to authorities if something went wrong. try explaining that you didn't drive to the post office to pick up the shit in the seized package.

general consensus: there are really no benefits to this method. if you're willing to risk this, just ship it to your house.

liability: same as shipping to home.

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all cases - suggestions, your situation may vary
***************************************************************
1. do not ever personally sign for a package, you are forfeiting your all alibi's.
2. let the package sit for a while before opening it. suspend your excitement. once you have opened the package you have assumed ownership by not alerting authorities. even write "return to sender" on box if paranoid.
3. after your first deniability claim, your address is flagged, and your identity as well. good luck pulling this off a month later at same/different address.
4. permeability is measured by the hours it takes for gas to transfer through the material.
   a. look for dense materials to seal contraband in.
   b. research OTR (oxygen transfer rate) of the material.
        c. a good vacuum seal will increase this time.
5. assume that you're fucked if there is a k9, you're fucked if there is an x-ray, try to use social engineering to avoid these situations. use correct and verifiable shipping info, study the aesthetics of some business mail and emulate it.
   a. dogs smell in the parts per million, can't trick nature.
   b. x-rays can read the labels on your pills.
7. you (and your attorney) must prove yourself innocent to authorities. not the other way around. don't forget that when you have concocted some ridiculous scheme, you aren't james bond.

****************************************************************
shipping methods
****************************************************************
1. overnights: the package spends less time in transit, but is part of a smaller mail pool. this allows for more scrutiny; packages that are loaded on planes are randomly x-rayed. if shipped during high traffic times, (holidays, etc.) the shear volume and rush of decoy packages will be enough to protect your investment.

2. ground: the package is part of a larger mail pool. not much attention is paid to these shipments. LEO's seem to be under the impression that smugglers most often use expedited shipping. however, the package is also touched by more hands. as gas transfer rates rapidly increase over time, multiple vacuum seals are a must.


Think about all of these factors when planning your next shipment. There is a different "answer" to your shipping questions for every situation.







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All this being said - a light introduction to better, more exotic plans:
********************************************************
1. business mail undergoes less scrutiny. make friends with a receptionist at a company. this person signs many packages for many people a week. they do not even need to look at the shipping label, and the box does not even need to be addressed to someone at the company. this person requires no alibi, is a perfect buffer to prevent controlled deliveries, and should be generously reimbursed by you for his or her services.

2......be creative. that is the only true way to beat any system.
Title: Re: Shipping 101
Post by: inscape on February 29, 2012, 06:12 pm

1. business mail undergoes less scrutiny. make friends with a receptionist at a company. this person signs many packages for many people a week. they do not even need to look at the shipping label, and the box does not even need to be addressed to someone at the company. this person requires no alibi, is a perfect buffer to prevent controlled deliveries, and should be generously reimbursed by you for his or her services.

can you elaborate a bit on this scheme with the receptionist, ect??
Title: Re: Shipping 101
Post by: bx9hy48k on March 01, 2012, 02:45 am
just use your head a little, buddy ; P

that idea was just to get you inspired. try and piece together a scenario where anyone who receives the package has a stronger plausible deniability than the common and frankly ignorant "someone must be wasting thousands of dollars trying to frame me by mailing weed to my house" excuse. though it may be legally sound, it is a pretty transparent scheme and won't work forever.

you need to try to control all the variables when receiving contraband in the mail. castle your king, if you will.


what in specific would you like me to elaborate on?
Title: Re: Shipping 101
Post by: FiveSeven on March 01, 2012, 04:27 am
Getting other people involved is really not a good idea if you can help it. You're just creating risk for yourself.
Title: Re: Shipping 101
Post by: SouthSquareBiz on March 01, 2012, 07:41 pm
I think what many on this board are not understanding is, you can't be a little bit pregnant.

You chose this game. You chose the method in which you play it.

If you are an individual, you need to register a business name and/or if you already have a business, use a business name to receive your packages.

Create partners for your business. It makes it look larger than what it really is. Hell, if you are in business from home, you should already have a steady flow of packages coming anyway, to avoid any suspicion.

And sign YOUR name for YOUR package. It's that simple. You assume responsibility for your actions. The more normal you act, the more normal the mail looks. You sign for all your other packages without hesitation, why not this one? You are assuming on each shipment that you will get caught. Plain and simple.

Now, on the sellers end, this post does help the seller understand how to conceal contraband, make the packaging look like business packages that go from business to business, so that the buyer does not even have to be concerned about looking suspicious.

It is not a comfortable feeling, but I assume I am being watched and being set up on every shipment. That is the risk I'm taking. No need to deny it once it hits my residence and then again, there is no need to copping to something I didn't "know was going on" either.

You start wrong, it will end wrong. This is not what someone told me, this is what I know first hand.
Title: Re: Shipping 101
Post by: ianfleming on March 01, 2012, 07:52 pm
How about the ole' "dead drop" method. Whats the weigh in on this?
Title: Re: Shipping 101
Post by: FiveSeven on March 02, 2012, 01:57 am
At the absolute bare minemum all packages should be sent with printed labels. You can label prints for 50-70 bucks and they are very simple to use. You just type the details, click print and cut the label roll. Entire process takes about 15 seconds per label.
Title: Re: Shipping 101
Post by: novocaine on March 02, 2012, 02:19 am
I still dont get this printed label minimum requirement that buyers keep demanding.
The only advantage is for the vendor and incriminating oneself with their handwriting. Or if they are using a fake company.

I get alot of legit stuff shipped internationally. Most are hand written.
Most people dont send grandma a xmas card with a printed label on it.
And you try sticking a label on a plastic satchel and not stay up all night wondering if it will fall off in the mail ;)
Title: Re: Shipping 101
Post by: mungingout on March 02, 2012, 03:03 am
Awesome, you have given me some good ideas bx9hy48k

Thank you good sir!
Title: Re: Shipping 101
Post by: FiveSeven on March 02, 2012, 03:13 am
I still dont get this printed label minimum requirement that buyers keep demanding.
The only advantage is for the vendor and incriminating oneself with their handwriting. Or if they are using a fake company.

I get alot of legit stuff shipped internationally. Most are hand written.
Most people dont send grandma a xmas card with a printed label on it.
And you try sticking a label on a plastic satchel and not stay up all night wondering if it will fall off in the mail ;)

>The only advantage is for the vendor and incriminating oneself with their handwriting. Or if they are using a fake company.

Mail that is well labeled blends seamlessly with the endless tide of business mail flowing through the networks every day. If an address is difficult to read the package may be subjected to further inspection while the correct address is being ascertained.

>Most people dont send grandma a xmas card with a printed label on it.

That's entirely the point. The idea with professional packaging is to make it look as if it ISN'T personal mail. Personal mail is what's suspicious to customs/PO workers.
Title: Re: Shipping 101
Post by: novocaine on March 02, 2012, 04:02 am
I disagree I am sorry.
I could argue the same and say handwritten addressees also blend in.

If 99% of drugs come in the mail with printed labels I am going to keep making mine look like  a xmas card to grandma. ;) or an ebay item.
Title: Re: Shipping 101
Post by: th3creeper on March 02, 2012, 09:27 am
I disagree I am sorry.
I could argue the same and say handwritten addressees also blend in.

If 99% of drugs come in the mail with printed labels I am going to keep making mine look like  a xmas card to grandma. ;) or an ebay item.
This issue of handwritten addresses vs. printed labels isn't subjective.   Disagree all you'd like ...but the simple fact is printed labels blend in better and draw less scrutiny than ...handwritten labels.  This comes directly from US Postal Officials.   

This list is a couple yrs old but here are 22 other "red flags" that the USPS has identified.


1. No return address

2. Restrictive markings (such as writing "Personal!" on the envelope)

3. Misspelled words

4. Poorly typed or written text

5. Excessive postage

6. Addressed to an incorrect title

7. Sent from a foreign country

8. Sealed with tape

9. Emits a strange odor (Including masking agents such as coffee, perfume and fabric softener sheets)

10. Lopsided, uneven, rigid, bulky or otherwise uneven weight distribution

11. Oily stains, discolorations and crystallizations on packaging

12. Packaging appears to be re-used

13. Package looks generally poorly prepared for shipping

14. addresses are hand written

15. addresses contain mispelled information (such as names, streets or cities)

16. Originate from a drug source state

17. Are addressed as being sent from an individual to an individual

18. Return address ZIP code does not match ZIP code of the post office the package is being sent from

19. A fictitious return address is used

20. List a sender or receiver name of a common type (Such as John Smith)

21. Make use of names that are not connected to either address

22. Package makes noise when shaken

23. Redistribution of weight i
Title: Re: Shipping 101
Post by: inscape on March 02, 2012, 09:30 am
i really don't think it matters too much. i've never had a hand-written package intercepted domesticaly. althought the best vendors i know typically use printed labels. to blend in, one way or another....
Title: Re: Shipping 101
Post by: novocaine on March 02, 2012, 09:42 am
I disagree I am sorry.
I could argue the same and say handwritten addressees also blend in.

If 99% of drugs come in the mail with printed labels I am going to keep making mine look like  a xmas card to grandma. ;) or an ebay item.
This issue of handwritten addresses vs. printed labels isn't subjective.   Disagree all you'd like ...but the simple fact is printed labels blend in better and draw less scrutiny than ...handwritten labels.  This comes directly from US Postal Officials.   

This list is a couple yrs old but here are 22 other "red flags" that the USPS has identified.


1. No return address

2. Restrictive markings (such as writing "Personal!" on the envelope)

3. Misspelled words

4. Poorly typed or written text

5. Excessive postage

6. Addressed to an incorrect title

7. Sent from a foreign country

8. Sealed with tape

9. Emits a strange odor (Including masking agents such as coffee, perfume and fabric softener sheets)

10. Lopsided, uneven, rigid, bulky or otherwise uneven weight distribution

11. Oily stains, discolorations and crystallizations on packaging

12. Packaging appears to be re-used

13. Package looks generally poorly prepared for shipping

14. addresses are hand written

15. addresses contain mispelled information (such as names, streets or cities)

16. Originate from a drug source state

17. Are addressed as being sent from an individual to an individual

18. Return address ZIP code does not match ZIP code of the post office the package is being sent from

19. A fictitious return address is used

20. List a sender or receiver name of a common type (Such as John Smith)

21. Make use of names that are not connected to either address

22. Package makes noise when shaken

23. Redistribution of weight i

LOL ok if you believe that hand written parcels/envelopes are a red flag and if the vendor is too dumb to spell or write neatly then I suppose printed labels will make you feel better.

Be sure to pass that list onto ebay. All those hand written red flagged parcels.. how do USPS handle it? ::)
All that hand written correspondence, birthday cards and xmas cards... wedding invites, prison pen pals.. All red flagged.
The only thing in hand written envelopes are drugs and they have never ever caught drugs with printed labels on the envelopes ::)
Title: Re: Shipping 101
Post by: th3creeper on March 02, 2012, 05:56 pm
Perhaps if you weren't so childishly invested in being right you'd actually learn something here.  It's not what I BELIEVE, Sir...  It's what Postal Police have publicly stated and published.   I suppose I am going to have to find the specific article and reference it here for you even though I'm sure you think you know better than they.  Grow up a little bit ...open your mind and try to get a glimpse of the bigger picture here.  No one is saying that your drugs in the mail will get seized unless you print out your labels so I'm not sure why you keep building your arguement on that basis.  How about throwing some intellectual honesty into the mix?  It's the number and totality of red flags that will garner a parcel closer scrutiny..NOT necessarily any single one.  You really don't know what you are talking about and I doubt you think you have anything to learn but it"s still important for interested others to have the facts.
Title: Re: Shipping 101
Post by: inscape on March 02, 2012, 07:51 pm
i agree. i've read that article. and they can claim what they want. i still dont think hand addressing a envelope will get it pulled aside. ever.regardless of what they say. not in the minute i've been around at least.
Title: Re: Shipping 101
Post by: novocaine on March 02, 2012, 10:41 pm
I dont know about intellect, but how about good old fashioned logic.

General consensus here says that screening for drugs is a bit of a random affair. ALL mail does not get screened. You with me th3creeper?

Out of the random mail they select for screening they use xray, sniffers etc to look for contraband. They sure is shit dont go thru it and red flag all the hand written from the printed labels. Or maybe they do if you believe that reference. ::)

So they screened the random mail they picked out and out of the 1000 letters and parcels they find 5 suspicious looking envelopes that have a positive for drugs. Two are hand written and 3 are printed labels. The 3 printed labels cannot possibly have drugs in it because it looks like business correspondence so they scrutinize the hand written ones over the flagged printed ones??

I know I sound like a child but sometimes children see bullshit references and propaganda before others do.

I do agree on one thing. If the hand writing is shit and they cannot make out an address it will be physically man handled more. More scrutiny, more exposure.
But who sends drugs with illegible writing?? seriously

edit- "It's the number and totality of red flags that will garner a parcel closer scrutiny..NOT necessarily any single one."
Now we have that sorted...How about we stop throwing around the propaganda that hand addressed packages will get you red flagged then heh?
Title: Re: Shipping 101
Post by: greenmonster71 on March 03, 2012, 12:31 am
yall are dickheads, like the man said theres a different answer to each situation, shipping domestically i wouldn't worry so much about printed or written labels, just make it look legit, and i guess the same would go with international shipping, but i personally feel more comfortable with a printed label and like a business name on the return address when i'm getting my shit from india.

Title: Re: Shipping 101
Post by: FiveSeven on March 03, 2012, 12:44 am
"It's the number and totality of red flags that will garner a parcel closer scrutiny..NOT necessarily any single one."
Now we have that sorted...How about we stop throwing around the propaganda that hand addressed packages will get you red flagged then heh?

He never said it was a single factor, you only claimed he did. The list is obviously designed to take into account a number of factors on a parcel. That doesn't mean you should just disregard an element of the list because it's not overly detrimental to the process on its own.

At the end of the day, label printing is easy, fast and imo more convenient than writing. The costs are minimal. Why NOT do it?
Title: Re: Shipping 101
Post by: inscape on March 03, 2012, 12:55 am
because #24 on that list is shipping with printed labels. a red flag. just sayin??
Title: Re: Shipping 101
Post by: inscape on March 03, 2012, 12:59 am
there are MUCH more relevant factors that would cause a package to be set aside for further investigation....
Title: Re: Shipping 101
Post by: inscape on March 03, 2012, 02:35 am
even if i lose, i'm still a retard. what now? lol... ;)
Title: Re: Shipping 101
Post by: zerobin on March 03, 2012, 05:34 am
I disagree I am sorry.
I could argue the same and say handwritten addressees also blend in.

If 99% of drugs come in the mail with printed labels I am going to keep making mine look like  a xmas card to grandma. ;) or an ebay item.
This issue of handwritten addresses vs. printed labels isn't subjective.   Disagree all you'd like ...but the simple fact is printed labels blend in better and draw less scrutiny than ...handwritten labels.  This comes directly from US Postal Officials.   

This list is a couple yrs old but here are 22 other "red flags" that the USPS has identified.



5. Excessive postage


This one  is where I have questions on.  When sending out an envelope with labels and all that jazz, can using a forever stamp on what appears to be a "business letter" cause more scrutiny?  I have a theoretical idea of how to go about this but the postage is what stops me in my tracks. 

I wish some sellers could give us n00bs some small tips on the subject.
Title: Re: Shipping 101
Post by: novocaine on March 03, 2012, 05:40 am
"It's the number and totality of red flags that will garner a parcel closer scrutiny..NOT necessarily any single one."
Now we have that sorted...How about we stop throwing around the propaganda that hand addressed packages will get you red flagged then heh?

He never said it was a single factor, you only claimed he did. The list is obviously designed to take into account a number of factors on a parcel. That doesn't mean you should just disregard an element of the list because it's not overly detrimental to the process on its own.

At the end of the day, label printing is easy, fast and imo more convenient than writing. The costs are minimal. Why NOT do it?

I guess I read post #12 wrong.

You tell me how I can stick a label on an aussie express satchel without fear it falling off.. and spending $150+ on label gear and stationary and I am in. Just to keep the kids happy on the inside.

arguing on forums is like the specialneeds Olympics...... even if you win your still a retard  :o

Wheres the argument? Forums are discussions. everyone has an opinion and general consensus on things. Anything anyone posts is an expression based on experience and chemical imbalance at that particular point in time ;)
Im not too proud EVER to change my opinion on something if somebody can show me another logical way. Thats the difference between "always needs to be right".. and "wants to learn amongst a lot of bullshit"

carry on ;)
Title: Re: Shipping 101
Post by: FiveSeven on March 03, 2012, 10:06 am
My labels adhere fine to my packages (I'm talking about eBay, I don't sell on SR), express envelopes are paper, stickers are paper, what's the problem? What possible issue could you have sticking two things together? If you're referring to the plastic packaging, just use some tape?

@Shiznit
If you're going to call people retards for debating a topic, at least have the intellect and common decency to differentiate between you're and your, please.
Title: Re: Shipping 101
Post by: Reseller on March 04, 2012, 02:20 pm
Great post.
Title: Re: Shipping 101
Post by: novocaine on March 04, 2012, 09:24 pm
Im talking the plastic  express satchels.
I get a lot of stuff in plastic satchels and I am yet to see a company attempt to stick a label on one.
I must be missing something because sticky tape or the sticky labels I have seen just wont do. There is too much give on a satchel. mmM time for some experimentATION ;)
Title: Re: Shipping 101
Post by: Gary Oak on March 05, 2012, 04:37 am
Sweet post, this was pretty informative.  ;) Thanks!
Title: Re: Shipping 101
Post by: Aoth14 on March 05, 2012, 09:45 pm
more opinion based fact. SR is getting good at it.

Title: Re: Shipping 101
Post by: IGOTTHATGOOD on March 06, 2012, 01:36 pm
When sending Pharmaceutical Drugs :

1.  what do you consider a smaller package ?  i mean is 500 pills a small package?
2.  clearly companies have to ship there products also, so  how do they distinguish which is a legit order compared to one that is shipped to someone who doesnt even own the perscription?  do you think that they're going to do the research to find out who it is being shipped to , more than likely not even the person who is perscribed the perscription anyhow..  i mean do you think they're going to try to contact the company who shipped it to verify that they have a license to write a script and then go even deeper to find out who the buyer is ?  to me, clearly if you dont get the package its time to move around, get a new hustle, recruit a wingman..
3.  Ive had a package, i assume not big, 500 pills, of xanax and when i got the package it was sealed with Customs tape.  so of course when i got the package in my mailbox i was alarmed (really i had it shipped to someone else and they called me to report the issue..) so they opened the box and with no attempt to hide, just wrapped with cerian wrap .  .. Does this seem normal ? 
4.  to me i dont see a customs worker, whoever would be the one to interrupt me from getting my package, would say hey that there has 500 pills in it but that big mother fucker over there has 1,000 pills in it, lets do some homework and see whats up with it.  to me , 5, 10, 100, 1000, or even 10,000 pills is a wrap if busted.  i cant see the eye , especially an untrained eye (not saying they dont know what they're doing..or trying to under estimate them) can distinguish the difference between 500 & 1,000 pills, not only that but to make them lift there eye open more b/c of the bigger shipment.  .

i know this is a cluster fuck of bull shit, but of course my product speaks for itself! ha

anyhow, i wanted to make an order for more than 500, instead of shipping 500 multiple times .. do you think i should stick with the 500 since it worked once (or did it b/c of the customs tape) .. oh and its clearly from over seas, hand written, AND NO NAME just address..   oh and to an apartment that only normally gets "normal mail".. i dont see the person delivering the mail trying to play police agent, i see them more along the lines as my job is to deliver, get it done as fast as possible, and get the fuck home, not a captin save a hoe .. of course there are always gonna be the robocops...

just throwing some shit out there ..  8)

EDIT : TOOK ANOTHER HIT and couple more ideas popped in my head.. the place where i got the pills obviously is a supplier, not just your local supplier.. so clearly they have a little more experience than some of us.. i asked them what is a safe order & they said that they have orders for , dont quote me on this, a 100 blotter ?  i think its 10,000 pills ?  anyhow, A BIG ass order shipped to the USA often, more frequent than i would imagine.  they told me to not be scared to order what i can afford and it will get to me.  before i originally ordered they told me that they would guarantee half my order on a reshipment if seized.. after making the first order and getting it , i was uneasy of another order, especially bigger after hearing that it had Customs Tape taping the box up..  but now they tell me that they guarantee 100% that the delivery will be made.  so now im thinking these mother fuckers dont give 2 shits about me, once they got there money they got all that theyre gonna get, me free or in jail dont make 2 shits to them..

call me a skitzer, b/c i am.  I just want to be out in the free world for as long as possible but want to make as much money as possible under the radar .. and will avoid anything that has a higher chance of getting caught up than the next idea for $$ .. i already have a 3rd party to receive the package and immediately ship the package unopened to the next party (in same area as i am) ... of course im losing money by adding people into the equation but in a successful business i know NO ONE who created an empire alone,  UNITY . COMMUNITY.  but of course loose lips sink ships.  anyone on my team isnt someone id "hang" out with under normal circumstances, they're selected only b/c of a long friendship from childhood .. the ask dont tell policy works best but benefits there wallet ...

just more food for thought oh and one more , the package didnt even have a return address, just one more additional thing that yall say can cause a red flag but had got delivered anyhow ...

Title: Re: Shipping 101
Post by: Holly on March 07, 2012, 08:50 pm
When registering a PO box in the US I don't think they ask for your papers to make sure you have a real company.
Title: Re: Shipping 101
Post by: novocaine on March 07, 2012, 09:12 pm
nope but if you are anything like my GF, she checks the legitimacy of a company about 10 times a day.
Hobby for OCD's ;)
I do admit to checking companies out myself. It takes 2 seconds.