Silk Road forums
Discussion => Shipping => Topic started by: hotcrossbuns on April 21, 2013, 01:00 pm
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Imagine that I am a UK vender who has 20 btc or so in his account, I can go to somewhere like Localbitcoins.com
and sell them off pretty easily.
I imagine I could say I brought some btc while they were cheap cheap, but how would I explain it over a long period.
I would prefer not to have a fake bank account/overseas bank account as I don't want to be filmed using the ATM/dress up like an old
woman every time I want a withdrawal.
My question is how do I explain/don't raise suspicion with all of the bank transfers that would be going in to my account?
I imagine this question has been asked a few times, sorry but my research skills are still needing work :P
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Do it in small increments (don't go depositing 10,000 at once).
If anyone asks about it, just say you sold some random shit (maybe guitars or something) and took BTC for it because you wanted to "gamble" after hearing how the value rose so much.
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Using banks is getting ever more hazardous, especially in Europe (Cyprus is one; your money being slowly confiscated due to QE and practically zero percent interest rates is another; bailins, anyone?). Also in the us.
So hide your cash somewhere safe, but start using banks less. All they'll do is use your money to play those ridiculously risky gambles. Fuck banks.
goblin
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Well, I don't know exactly how it works in the UK, but here in the U.S. this is how I know it to be done.
Make deposits that make you look like a regular working stiff.
You can drip money into your account on the 1st and 15th of every month, make scheduled deposits every Thursday, Friday, or Saturday (Many cash businesses make deposits towards the weekend, or you can pay yourself once a month, twice a month, or once a week to match regular paying pay periods.
Now, if I were you, I would withdraw straight to cash and get the hell away from the bank as fast as as you can.
There is no better place to bank than the privacy of your own home.
Just my two sents.
Oh, and keep it under whatever dollar amount suggests illegal activity in the UK.
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ok, but the way I am selling BTC is that I get bank transfers from individuals or paypal payments, now I dont have an ebay history to back that up, Im guessing other websites also save your selling info..
It all sounds pretty risky and as time goes by, I am selling more and more, getting more and more BTC with no secure way of moving them.
I would do the BTC for cash in the post but its just a lot more work and im running a one man band. As you can imagine Im rich and poor, I have sold some BTC for bank transfer buts its hard to do it all at the same time, so not to rouse suspicion.
I want to get away from the banks as well, I fuckin hate bankers, Goldmansachs and HSBC can go fuck themselfs greedy Phsyco basterds. I want my money in cash, its just getting it there...
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Most vendors who cash out to their bank account just register it as capital gains. The gov does not really care where your cash comes from as long as you define what type of profit it is andd pay the proper amount.
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Business bank accounts in the UK are better and multiple bank transfers aren't questioned as much as far as I know. Keep it to sensible amounts and make sure you leave it in the bank for a while. If you are receiving £2000, withdrawing £2000 same/next day eventually you will be investigated for money laundering. Be sensible, do your research and be careful.
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The gov does not really care where your cash comes from as long as you define what type of profit it is andd pay the proper amount.
I'm not sure about that. Sounds like famous last words.
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ok, but the way I am selling BTC is that I get bank transfers from individuals or paypal payments
I'm surprised you haven't been screwed by accepting paypal payment. paypal will reverse payments even 1-2 months afterwards after the slightest complaint.
I don't have any good answers to your dilemma. Successfully laundering money is increasingly difficult. The less money the less risk of course.
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Business bank accounts in the UK are better and multiple bank transfers aren't questioned as much as far as I know. Keep it to sensible amounts and make sure you leave it in the bank for a while. If you are receiving £2000, withdrawing £2000 same/next day eventually you will be investigated for money laundering. Be sensible, do your research and be careful.
Or I could just sell them for cash in the post !
No I think this is hopefully good advise, its going to a nervous business I guess.
I am thinking of getting a partner so its spaced out between more accounts..
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Any vendor that is making a ton of money will not be getting that money sent straight into a personal bank account......They would cash out there coins into cash (there are plenty of legit exchanges that send cash in the mail anywhere in the world) and then "clean" that cash, as in launder it, most likely through a business they have set up, it has to be a business that most/all customers would pay in cash. To be very legit it will be a legitimate business as in they actually do whatever they advertise they do and then just funnel the illegal funds into the business over a period of time.....Some just register a small business (which is very cheap) and set up a small business account at the bank and deposit the cash from their "cash business" in to that account BUT if you register a business that isn't even semi-legit (as in you do no legal work for the business, you just deposit drug money into the account) and you are depositing A LOT of money you WILL eventually be on the radar and get audited.....So, it really depends how much you are making. If your only cashing out a few hundred here a week I wouldn't even worry about getting that transferred to my account BUT if your a top dog you need to be changing your coins into untraceable cash and set up a way that you can "funnel" the money into a legit business account, OR you could just have hundreds of thousands of dollars stashed in your house or in a safety deposit box at the bank, but then that defeats the whole purpose of being rich because you can never purchase anything over $10,000 without attracting attention....So, that is why people "clean" the money, put it in a business account and then can actually buy a house or whatever the fuck they want with drug money......
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Any vendor that is making a ton of money will not be getting that money sent straight into a personal bank account......They would cash out there coins into cash (there are plenty of legit exchanges that send cash in the mail anywhere in the world) and then "clean" that cash, as in launder it, most likely through a business they have set up, it has to be a business that most/all customers would pay in cash. To be very legit it will be a legitimate business as in they actually do whatever they advertise they do and then just funnel the illegal funds into the business over a period of time.....Some just register a small business (which is very cheap) and set up a small business account at the bank and deposit the cash from their "cash business" in to that account BUT if you register a business that isn't even semi-legit (as in you do no legal work for the business, you just deposit drug money into the account) and you are depositing A LOT of money you WILL eventually be on the radar and get audited.....So, it really depends how much you are making. If your only cashing out a few hundred here a week I wouldn't even worry about getting that transferred to my account BUT if your a top dog you need to be changing your coins into untraceable cash and set up a way that you can "funnel" the money into a legit business account, OR you could just have hundreds of thousands of dollars stashed in your house or in a safety deposit box at the bank, but then that defeats the whole purpose of being rich because you can never purchase anything over $10,000 without attracting attention....So, that is why people "clean" the money, put it in a business account and then can actually buy a house or whatever the fuck they want with drug money......
Sounds solid. +1 for you.
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i would pay cash for btc in canada, domestic only express ship. im looking for a vendor to do that.
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Most vendors who cash out to their bank account just register it as capital gains.
They do?
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How do you explain this thread being in the shipping section?
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Any vendor that is making a ton of money will not be getting that money sent straight into a personal bank account......They would cash out there coins into cash (there are plenty of legit exchanges that send cash in the mail anywhere in the world) and then "clean" that cash, as in launder it, most likely through a business they have set up, it has to be a business that most/all customers would pay in cash. To be very legit it will be a legitimate business as in they actually do whatever they advertise they do and then just funnel the illegal funds into the business over a period of time.....Some just register a small business (which is very cheap) and set up a small business account at the bank and deposit the cash from their "cash business" in to that account BUT if you register a business that isn't even semi-legit (as in you do no legal work for the business, you just deposit drug money into the account) and you are depositing A LOT of money you WILL eventually be on the radar and get audited.....So, it really depends how much you are making. If your only cashing out a few hundred here a week I wouldn't even worry about getting that transferred to my account BUT if your a top dog you need to be changing your coins into untraceable cash and set up a way that you can "funnel" the money into a legit business account, OR you could just have hundreds of thousands of dollars stashed in your house or in a safety deposit box at the bank, but then that defeats the whole purpose of being rich because you can never purchase anything over $10,000 without attracting attention....So, that is why people "clean" the money, put it in a business account and then can actually buy a house or whatever the fuck they want with drug money......
This :)
Lots of vendors and high up dealers set up legitimate businesses and do such.
One which is being currently investigated in the UK is those little car wash huts that are popping up in abandoned petrol stations and old premises. What seems to be happening is with any money laundering business in the books they've probably washed 10,000 cars per month, where in reality they've probably washed about 1,000. This kinda business is viable for small time dealers maybe turning a couple K a month but not SuperTrips level, Half a mil a month.
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Do plenty of research on localbitcoins.com. I heard someone's house got raided after they exchanged their coins for cash. I don't remember where I read this and I would hate to spread rumors, but I probably read it within the last 2 weeks on this forum. So make sure your house is clean. I don't want to scare you, just search for localbitcoins.com yourself. Apparently no one wants to give out their method for cashing out their coins.
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Do plenty of research on localbitcoins.com. I heard someone's house got raided after they exchanged their coins for cash. I don't remember where I read this and I would hate to spread rumors, but I probably read it within the last 2 weeks on this forum. So make sure your house is clean. I don't want to scare you, just search for localbitcoins.com yourself. Apparently no one wants to give out their method for cashing out their coins.
i dont trust localbitcoins.com because what if its a fed setting up an account and selling bitcoins locally and ten they follow you to your house and keep you under watch
I'll just leave this here
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=174918.0
So, as a few of you guys know, I'm moving to another country soon enough. When I get over there I won't have access to my bank account, so a few weeks ago I decided it might be a good idea to sell some of my BTC for cash. I had done this a couple of times before and had a positive experience, so had no whims about doing it again.
So I received a request from someone who wanted to buy 500euro worth of BTC in a f2f transaction. I drove down to meeting spot, met the guy, he gave me the 500euro and basically ran back to his car and drove off. I obviously found this strange, but it was an escrow tx, so I released escrow from my phone and went back to my car.
On my drive back, I noticed that there was a Ford Mondeo behind me (the kind of car that is usually used by undercover police in my city). It seemed to be following me, I didn't have all my paperwork on my car in order, so I decided to take a detour down some local back-roads and shake it.
So anyways, I lost the car, drove home and thought nothing of this strange encounter.
Over the next few days, I noticed strange needle marks and tiny tears in all of my mail, I also noticed a really strange parked car outside my house one day, when I walked over to it to ask them what they were doing there, they drove off at speed. I probably should've been suspicious then, but I had done nothing wrong and shrugged it off.
A couple of days later, I wake up to the sound of my door being smashed in. I run down to find 5 police officers in my house. They showed me a search warrant under the misuse of drugs act. The national drugs unit were parked outside with sniffer dogs ready, they left after a few minutes though and didn't come inside with the dogs. The police told me the person I met on localbitcoins was an undercover police officer, and they had copied the registration number off of my car and got my address from it.
They stripped the whole house down, turned everything upside down looking for drugs. They found 1 joint of weed and they also seized a clock which they thought was a digital scale (it wasn't) and informed me that they were going to prosecute me for intent to supply, even though I wasn't selling, and I showed them a prescription from a doctor in another country (that isn't valid here) and told them the superintendant of the local police station had informally told me that they wouldn't prosecute me for possession if it was medical use even though I was technically breaking the law. They also found padded envelopes and accused me of selling drugs through the post (a complete lie with no evidence).
They then told me that if I didn't give them all the messages & phone numbers of everyone I had met to sell BTC that they were going to seize all my bitcoin miners, computers etc and have them "analyzed". I was about to move country in the next few days and didn't want the hassle of having to deal with this, so I told them that I had deleted all the messages (which I did) but that I would be able to get them back if they left my computers there, and that I would co-operate fully (I'm obviously not going to co-operate). They then left and I changed my flight date and basically fled the country the next day, luckily I was planning on moving in a week anyways.
So, a warning to you guys, be careful doing f2f transactions or buying/selling BTC in general, even though we're not breaking the law it doesn't mean you won't get unwanted attention from the police.
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Do plenty of research on localbitcoins.com. I heard someone's house got raided after they exchanged their coins for cash. I don't remember where I read this and I would hate to spread rumors, but I probably read it within the last 2 weeks on this forum. So make sure your house is clean. I don't want to scare you, just search for localbitcoins.com yourself. Apparently no one wants to give out their method for cashing out their coins.
That story was on a well-known BTC forum, the guy was legit (so he said) - basically buying/selling BTC over localbitcoin, he got followed from a transaction and raided the following day; it was in Ireland AFAICR
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Do plenty of research on localbitcoins.com. I heard someone's house got raided after they exchanged their coins for cash. I don't remember where I read this and I would hate to spread rumors, but I probably read it within the last 2 weeks on this forum. So make sure your house is clean. I don't want to scare you, just search for localbitcoins.com yourself. Apparently no one wants to give out their method for cashing out their coins.
That story was on a well-known BTC forum, the guy was legit (so he said) - basically buying/selling BTC over localbitcoin, he got followed from a transaction and raided the following day; it was in Ireland AFAICR
you mean the exact story in the post directly above your post? the story that even has a link to the thread on bitcointalk.org?
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Most vendors who cash out to their bank account just register it as capital gains.
They do?
If you made some crazy cash on the recent rollercoaster ride and wanted to bring the tax man in to take his cut so you don't have to worry, then yeah, you'd call it a cap gain. Currency speculation. That's what it is.
If you're a vendor I don't know how far that explanation will take you. Some other form of laundry would likely be advisable. I mean, yeah, the tax man wants his cut, but they'd rather confiscate the lot.
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you mean the exact story in the post directly above your post? the story that even has a link to the thread on bitcointalk.org?
Something wrong with the bloody timestamps on this forum - I swear to go that there wasn't a subsequent post, I wouldn't have been so retarded to post that had I seen it :o
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usa banks aren't allowed to alert the authorities of suspicious deposits unless it's over 10k at a time so keep it to a minimum and you should be fine..
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usa banks aren't allowed to alert the authorities of suspicious deposits unless it's over 10k at a time so keep it to a minimum and you should be fine..
They are allowed to for under 10k. They legally are supposed to if they are suspicious of your transaction(s). They aren't required to for less than 10k though.
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usa banks aren't allowed to alert the authorities of suspicious deposits unless it's over 10k at a time so keep it to a minimum and you should be fine..
You've obviously never heard of Structuring.
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Jack N Hoff is right. US banks are required to report all single-day transactions exceeding $10k. That doesn't mean they aren't allowed to report activity under the cap. In fact if customer appears to be trying to purposely avoiding that $10k reporting limit the bank is required to file a Suspicious Activity Report and they are not supposed to let the customer know they have filed that.
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Jack N Hoff is right. US banks are required to report all single-day transactions exceeding $10k. That doesn't mean they aren't allowed to report activity under the cap. In fact if customer appears to be trying to purposely avoiding that $10k reporting limit the bank is required to file a Suspicious Activity Report and they are not supposed to let the customer know they have filed that.
That is correct. Companies like Moneygram and Western Union are also required to report total daily transactions exceeding 3k, structuring, or any suspicious transactions. They are required to fill out a form and to keep the any surveillance footage, papers for fingerprinting and some crap. You can locate the pdfs with the guidelines for those companies online.
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i would pay cash for btc in canada, domestic only express ship. im looking for a vendor to do that.
I got you for that, Tough I sell to others as well so I don't always have a steady amount. Initially I start off with $100 or less for the first two transactions and we'll wwork from there, PM me on the main SR site and take my email down: nationaldirect@tormail.org. Signature required is a must for this method
That said, I sell a lot for cash, and I pay sales tax on aabout half that's left and enters my bank. I keep it as a business expense and jsut reclaim the tax remittance on other business expenses.
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Capital gains is a most broad tax description, it pretty much means something you owned went up in value and you don't pay the tax until you exchange to fiat currency at least in most countries thats how it works.
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This is what I'd try if I ever vendor on SR and make some decent coin (launder the money from SR sales thru my legit business; mafia style):
1. Register business name (limited liability company).
2. Open business bank account
3. Create false invoices for work performed as my business (Computer Services business).
4. Use a business accountant to process my invoices and pay the taxman
5. Deposit proceeds into business bank account.
As tax man is being paid, should not get any grief from them. Effectively hiding in plain site by already declaring my earnings. As I have invoices for false customers/business, I can use these as "proof" of where the money came from. 3rd party won't know the invoices are false.
Services that would be charged on the invoices would be things like "PC virus scan and removal", "Memory upgrade", "OS backup, reformat and reinstall" etc. Charge a rate of $150/hr. :)
Otherwise you could just go to the casino and bet half on black and half on red at the roulette table. Then collect your winnings, granted you lose 50% but at least the money has come from the casino when you cash out. And you can get a receipt for proof. Since the receipt doesn't state how much you spent just your withdrawn amount, LE would have to believe you that the money is gambling winnings. I believe this is what the asian triads in my part of the world do with their ill gotten gains.
Another idea would be to get a prepaid mastercard or visacard and just load it up with your cash. It should not need to be declared to any agencies tho to be safe keep daily deposits under $1,000.
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tldr version: watch breaking bad on how to launder large sums of drug money; car wash / chicken fast food :P
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3. Create false invoices for work performed as my business (Computer Services business).
4. Use a business accountant to process my invoices and pay the taxman
I wondered about this: do invoices alone amount to proof? Don't they want to see actual proofs of payment, such as checks, ACH transfers, wires or the like? I know if it's cash then there is no proof, so you can always say you got cash.
Otherwise you could just go to the casino and bet half on black and half on red at the roulette table. Then collect your winnings, granted you lose 50% but at least the money has come from the casino when you cash out. And you can get a receipt for proof. Since the receipt doesn't state how much you spent just your withdrawn amount, LE would have to believe you that the money is gambling winnings. I believe this is what the asian triads in my part of the world do with their ill gotten gains.
Do all casinos operate that way, with the receipt just stating the amount withdrawn? Seems to me that LE would have already gotten wise to this method and had casinos change the way they do this business to eliminate money laundering.
goblin
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I wish I was earning enough to lose 50% of it!
Thanks for all the varied options and opinions. I won't say
exactly which road I have chosen to go test drive but this has
certainly helped me out. I don't mind paying tax I actually think
it is the moral thing to do, I just want to treat this as a normal job.
I like the idea of being a freelance basic computer fixer this would
fit my background and could actually make it somewhat legit if not very
part time.
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The only problem with claiming your income from a business and trying to back it up with fake invoices would come down to a deep investigation showing that none of those clients existed or whatnot. You are probably better off to put up some fake Craigslist ads offering some kind of service like digging ditches or hauling dirt for people; things that people don't typically expect invoices for, if someone does contact you for it, you can always say you don't have time/your truck is broke/your shovel rusted. Or conversely you could setup a similar scheme offering items for sale in the amount that you are planning to deposit into your account. You could still keep your own "records" to show the IRS where the money is coming from and that you are being a good little taxpayer reporting all your income from your hard work or sales.
In the US, if you are willing to take the tax hit, 25% federal and possibly state, and aren't moving enormous sums, it's entirely possible to claim all the money as gambling winnings to cover your tracks and make it look pretty legit. Things like scratch-offs, smaller wins in casinos, etc. It would be a good option if you live within reasonable distance of a casino and even better if you actually go to the casino occasionally (setup a presence there in case needed like casino card, some time on camera etc). Now some games like blackjack, pai gow, roulette, they don't have to give out W2Gs at all so it's easy to claim wins there (amounts over 10k though usually get some documentation). Amounts under $5000 for poker wins, $1200 for slots/bingo, $600 for ponies, are not required to be reported to the IRS by the casino so you could easily claim small wins over time without a W2G.