Silk Road forums
Discussion => Off topic => Topic started by: wackmanblu on February 22, 2013, 01:18 am
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Or maybe you yourself have been diagnosed with an anti-social personality disorder? If so I'd love to hear from you. I find this phenomenon fascinating.
For those who don't know what a sociopath is, they are people who:
.. are incapable of empathy towards their fellow human beings
.. emotions such as guilt, shame or remorse are non-existent
.. have a shallow capacity for love
.. show superficial charm and glibness
.. think of emotional people as weak and justifiable in targeting for opportunity
.. sometimes lack a realistic life plan and have no second thoughts leading a parasitic lifestyle off others
.. can remain hidden among the general population by simply 'acting' as though they understand what comprises human compassion
They have been called "empty souls" but most are harmless, although you probably don't want to be in a relationship with one. You've probably passed a few on the street today. They comprise an estimated 1% of the general population, and up to 3% of leaders in the corporate and political world (ruthlessness can get you places if you have no conscience). Commonly, they will double-cross or back-stab you without hesitation if they think it will serve their purpose.
Sociopaths and Psychopaths are technically the same thing, although in my mind the word 'psychopath' describes someone who is dangerous in that they may enjoy harming others while the sociopath simply doesn't care about others. Many, if not most serial killers are sociopaths. They can be manipulative and conning, never recognize the rights of others and see their self-serving behaviors as permissible. They appear to be charming, yet are covertly hostile and domineering, seeing their victim as merely an instrument to be used. They may dominate and humiliate their victims. You do not want to battle a sociopath - however far you are willing to take things, they will be willing to escalate things further.
Other common traits include:
- pathological lying
- Need for Stimulation; Living on the edge. Verbal outbursts and physical punishments are normal. Promiscuity and gambling are common.
- not learning from experience
- no sense of responsibility
- self-centeredness
- inability to control impulses
- sometimes show strange inappropriate emotional responses to certain events/scenarios
Generally sociopaths hate to be found out as their power (and they do think of themselves as gifted) hinges on the fact that others must not know what they truly feel and think. If they think you are "on to them" they will avoid you if possible or try and turn others against you, however this anonymous forum offers a unique way for any of you diagnosed socio's to speak out without any repercussions what-so-ever. THAT would be my gold standard - find an converse with a diagnosed sociopath.
If you yourself are a sociopath here are some things I would ask you:
If you have ever had someone in your family die, what was your thought process?
Have you ever knowingly harmed another person either mentally, financially or physically? How badly?
Are you in a relationship right now? If so does the other person know about your disorder? How have any other relationships ended?
Are you pissed off at my commentary in describing a sociopath? Does it make you feel anything negative or do you feel it is accurate?
Assuming you do drugs (and this is the Silk Road forum) do you do a lot or just every now and then? Have you ever done drugs in an entirely inappropriate setting like while babysitting or piloting a plane?
Ok 'nuff said for now.
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I would note that some of these traits also describe narcissistic and borderline personality disorders. Also, your questions are posed to a sociopath but the thread heading asks if we know any.
I've known three people I would describe as having, aggressively, no conscience. Only one of them do I think is a bona fide sociopath (as it happens, the girlfriend of one of the other two). It seemed like a secret she had a little trouble keeping, in that she was still musing, herself, about it. Never feeling remorse for any thought or deed. Empathy wasn't just absent, but a concept she seemed to have trouble grasping. Eventually, her conscience-less boyfriend broke up with her (after cheating on her with various other women, natch), and she went ballistic (despite not knowing about the infidelities). Out for revenge in whatever way possible.
Apparently the two of them got up to some fucked up hot shit in bed, though.
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Yeah, A lot of these traits can be applied to narcissism as well. The problem is that there seems to be varying degrees of sociopathology - not every sociopath has every one of these traits and I think that everyone of us has the capacity to exhibit them at some time or another. In my mind, what defines a true sociopath is a stunning lack empathy, guilt, conscience or remorse, with a lot of self-centeredness thrown in.
I grew up with a sociopath as a best friend in my teens. He was the the most cunning, manipulative and heartless person I've ever (to this day) met. When his father died I watched him fake cry at the funeral. I saw him lie, steal and cheat his way through girlfriends, friends and family. He would befriend people, burn them and then move on to a different group. You never knew what was going on in his head, he was very smart and exciting to be around. He dabbled in homosexuality if he could get something out of it. He had no real morals or sense of "right and wrong" the way most people would. He could charm the pants off new acquaintances and he truly believed that he was destined for greatness without effort. Eventually he burned me (we were friends for 15 years) and tried to convince me that it was my fault. ::) . Really weird now that I look back on it, but I believe he had a piece of my soul in the palm of his hand, ... very strange symbiotic relationship.
Anyway that was 20 years ago and I've lost touch otherwise I would just ask him these questions. I wasn't even aware of this personality disorder until a few years ago.
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I think we all have an ex or two like this. lol
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So Ron, would you say your dad was actively cruel towards you or just completely uncaring? Did he 'toy' with you? Or something else entirely? It must have had repercussions on you somehow unless your mom was aware of the condition and protected you somewhat.
Do you find yourself in relationships that are unhealthy today?
I just find these people completely fascinating, partly because I envy how they just don't care about anything other than themselves. I mean really, wouldn't it be a load-off your psyche to not be bothered by a conscience? Imagine the limitless activities you could engage in if you just didn't give a shit about feeling bad! On the other hand I don't understand how they 'fake' it through everything. Generally, they know they're different from 99% of everyone else and they wear a mask of what they think people expect. I mean we all do some acting day to day, but these guys take it a whole other level faking en entire range of emotions they know nothing about! Absolutely enthralling!
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Although I have also seen psychopath and sociopath used synonymously, I believe that some differentiate them based on the cause of their state of being. Such a person would say that a psychopath is caused due to neurological properties of the subjects brain, thus they were born the way they are, whereas a sociopath has become the way they are from exposure to their environment. The upper middle class serial killer is likely a psychopath, the poor minority serial killer gang leader is more likely a sociopath, however in practice they share the same characteristics.
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i've known a few wannabe sociopaths and one real sociopath.
true sociopaths should be euthanised.
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So Ron, would you say your dad was actively cruel towards you or just completely uncaring? Did he 'toy' with you? Or something else entirely? It must have had repercussions on you somehow unless your mom was aware of the condition and protected you somewhat.
Do you find yourself in relationships that are unhealthy today?
I just find these people completely fascinating, partly because I envy how they just don't care about anything other than themselves. I mean really, wouldn't it be a load-off your psyche to not be bothered by a conscience? Imagine the limitless activities you could engage in if you just didn't give a shit about feeling bad! On the other hand I don't understand how they 'fake' it through everything. Generally, they know they're different from 99% of everyone else and they wear a mask of what they think people expect. I mean we all do some acting day to day, but these guys take it a whole other level faking en entire range of emotions they know nothing about! Absolutely enthralling!
I believe that psychopaths have some understanding of emotion, however it is a theoretical understanding. Just like a male may have an understanding of female traits without experiencing them themselves. For example, I have theoretical knowledge that females are typically attracted to dominant personality types, desire emotional bonding more than sexual recreation etc....however these things do not apply so much to me. Essentially psychopaths have theory of mind, however they lack emotions themselves. They are still capable of mimicking appropriate emotions due to the fact that they theoretically know what is expected of them in certain situations, for example they know that if a relative dies they are supposed to feel sad. Thus, they will act as if they feel sad even though they don't. One of their primary tricks is to mimic those around them, so if they are with their normal brothers and sisters at their parents funeral, they will copy their behaviors and mannerisms, despite not having an emotional cause for displaying these mannerisms.
Autistic people on the other hand tend to have deficits in theory of mind, to various extents, depending on the severity of their Autism. They may struggle to determine what others are feeling or thinking in the first place. They have less theoretical knowledge of what they are expected to feel in social situations. They also tend to have blunted emotions, compared to neurotypical people anyway. There are actually a hand full of similarities between autism and psychopathy. Both rely on mimicking to an extent, psychopaths due to a lack of natural emotions as well as a desire to blend in, autistic people due to a lack of theory of mind and lack of theoretical understanding of how they are expected to behave in a social situation. Psychopaths are generally better at mimicking though, likely because of their superior ability to have a theoretical understanding of emotion.
In fact when Aspergers Syndrome was first introduced, it was originally called Autistic Sociopathy.
I have been diagnosed as being on the Autistic spectrum, however not with socipathy. I do feel as if my emotions are not as pronounced as a neurotypical persons. I feel that this is to my advantage in some ways, I strongly believe that many neurotypical people allow emotion to cloud their minds and turn them irrational. Think of the children propaganda has little to no effect on me, for example. Although an ability to be more logical is something I see as an advantage, there are some disadvantages to having less emotion than normal as well. I have trouble relating to / interacting with most normal people, although I prefer to interact and relate with more logical analytical and rational people anyway. I do sometimes find myself mimicking in social situations, but I am also quite certain that I have a strong theory of mind and theoretical understanding of social interactions and emotion, probably as I am quite high functioning and would likely be considered as having a mild form of savant syndrome (despite this not being a real diagnosis).
As you can see, this means that I am a strong systemizer and have deficits as an empathizer: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empathizing%E2%80%93systemizing_theory
However I have no difficulties with systematizing human emotion and having a decent theoretical understanding of emotion and theory of mind. Additionally, I do experience a wide range of emotion, although I do not think I do as much as an average human or as strongly as an average human. I also feel that although I can identify emotions in others to a decent although likely below average extent, that I am not strongly influenced by others emotions. Seeing a sad person is not likely to make me feel sad, and I guess that is what empathy is, so obviously I have deficits in empathy as compared to average humans. However, this is not always the case, it is just significantly more often the case for me than for average humans IMO.
The empathizing–systemizing (E-S) theory classifies people on the basis of their scores along two dimensions: empathizing (E) and systemizing (S). It measures a person's strength of interest in empathy (defined as the drive to identify a person's thoughts and feelings and to respond to these with an appropriate emotion); and a person's strength of interest in systems (defined as the drive to analyse or construct a system). A system in turn is defined as anything that follows rules, key classes of systems including mechanical systems, natural systems, abstract systems, and collectible systems. Rules in turn are defined as repeating, lawful patterns.
So in summary, I would not really consider myself to be a sociopath or psychopath, however if sociopathy is considered as a spectrum, I would say I am mildly autistic with some mild savant traits, and perhaps I could be considered as mildly sociopathic stemming from this.
edit:
cognitive empathy (also termed 'theory of mind' or 'mentalizing') defined as the drive to identify another's mental states;
affective empathy, defined as the drive to respond with an appropriate emotion to another's mental states.
I suppose you could say that sociopaths maintain cognitive empathy but lack affective empathy, whereas autistic people tend to lack theory of mind and affective empathy, or only theory of mind while maintaining affective empathy. However, I would define these things as
cognitive empathy: Theoretical understanding of others mind states
affective empathy: Desire/ability to respond appropriately to others mind states
with such definition it becomes more apparent that psychopaths maintain cognitive empathy but have a near total lack of affective empathy, where as those on Autistic spectrum tend to either have various degrees of deficit in both, or only have deficit in cognitive empathy while maintaining a closer to normal level of affective empathy (generally higher functioning autism I would say).
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Sociopaths are everywhere, some more 'sociopathic' than others, but I generally tend to think I have a pretty good grasp on them. Especially the 'superficial charm' is a red flag to me, but once you realize someone has sociopathic tendencies, they usually become pretty predictable and manageable, if you take the necessary precautions. If you want to scare them off, try to establish a deeper connection with them. They don't understand it, so it freaks them out.
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I wonder what would happen if you gave a sociopath MDMA
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Thanks for your sharing your experience Ron. It sounds a lot like mine with my friend year ago - constant hot and cold emotional psyche. The thing is they can read or mirror what it is you want to see in a relationship and feed it back to you amplified.
Sociopaths are truly everywhere. It's astonishing how prevalent they are and yet how well hidden they remain. When I first read up on the disorder I saw them everywhere, now I've realized that there is a difference between sociopathic tendencies (like what kmfkewm has mentioned) and a true socio.
I think a socio on ecstasy would be every bit as great as everyone else in that moment in time. It's in the long term you have to worry about their impact on your life.
There are theories right now that address questions as to why the world is so fucked up - why we go to war, why corporations are ruthless, why certain political decisions are made that harm people so badly. The theory is that since sociopaths seem to excel in power positions - like the CEO of a company that has no problem firing hundreds of people so shareholders can make $100 a month more - that these people have actually shaped the world in which we live disproportionately. Chilling thought really.
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ugh, I've grown up around three sociopaths of whom i could not escape until i was an adult. I can honestly say the experience has left me cynical and distrusting of others. Not complaining or anything, even one of my closest friends is a sociopath. You eventually learn how to deal with this kind of person. It still sucks, but once you recognize these people for what they are, you have a better understanding of how to deal with them. They'll always be back, despite your efforts to distance yourself from them.
My last job, i worked with one very closely, he was one of the biggest reasons i left that job. That guy, like many other sociopaths, was charming and funny, but we all hated him, and we all made it known to him and it still did not have any effect on him (at least not outwardly).
I've certainly had some of the traits handed down to me, but if you're aware of that fact and accept it, it makes it easier to manage. You don't often realize the impact your actions/words have on others (being sociapathic I mean).
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Re: Anyone Know a Sociopath ?
mdmafx: sociopath
talawtam: sociopath
Meatgrinder: sociopath
grdr: sociopath
thecrackhead: sociopath
All of these individuals encouraged kitkat82 to commit suicide when she needed help. These individuals clearly have sociopathic tendencies.
As such they are unworthy of life.
Sociopaths are less then human.
They are a menace to the community and should be put down like rabid dogs.
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oh yes, known a few at least. its hard to make it to adulthood without having known a few, i think.
this kid latched on to me when i was a freshmen in college...at first i was happy to have a new friend but very soon i started noticing some shitty things about his personality. he would offer gifts or favors unsolicited and then try to use it against you later. he'd steal from former friends when possible, also he started getting comfortable putting me down to make himself feel better. he was a pussy though, eventually i gave him what must have been the most brutal verbal beating of his life and he moved on to a new group of friends and then another one after that.
i've known others too. it seems that if they're not addicted to power, they are addicted to heroin. sociopaths make good heroin addicts because they do whatever it takes to get high. i knew a guy who would lie, cheat, steal, hurt, etc...do ANYTHING that made him feel good for a moment. he had this girlfriend who he called his "angel" but cheated on her like 100 times with women and men, came home with STDs, beat the shit out of her, but kept telling her he loved her because she served a purpose in his self-absorbed life. i hope that fucker is dead.
i had a best friend for a couple years who i think was naturally a sociopath but was actively fighting it in his head every day. he was a good guy, but the more familiar i became with his thought process the more it started to freak me out. he didn't want to be the asshole who uses people and has no sense of empathy, but it was a struggle for him. eventually i had to hit the road because it didn't look like his war was going to end in this lifetime. he's one that is addicted to power....and food. he never did anything cruel to me because i was like his side kick, but i just grew to pity the guy. and especially pity his long-time girlfriend.
i've had enough experience with these people now that i can quickly and easily identify them. and they are not allowed to get close to me at all. in fact, ever since i've figured all this out it seems like the sociopaths of the world got some memo about it because they all preemptively dislike me now. they must know that i truly hate their kind and wish to expose their true selves to all and fuck with them as much as i can.
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I feel I've got a pretty good grip on recognizing these people when I meet them today, my previous close relationship with one for over 10 years gave me perspective, and I can generally feel out the signs within a few days of knowing them.
But they can be pretty slippery, some can even convince trained therapists that they are 'cured'. It's because they 'become' what it is that they want to mirror. They are empty and blank inside. They pick up queues from people around them and feed back exactly what it is that those people want to see. Con-artists, actors, lovers, CEO's and politicians - all of these are roles that the socio plays well and it's because of their camellion-like ability to become and display what is expected.
Eventually their facade crumbles though; the slimy politician's affair or scandal comes to light, the con-man disappears, the lover burns their partner. What they usually do at that point is try to defend their actions, however unreasonable and sensational they may seem ... and a lot of the time people fall for it!! The sociopath enjoys toying with people, the power and the perceived righteousness it central to their 'reason for being'. They feel a need to justify what they do, however wicked, to anyone who will listen, even their victims.
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damn...my ex wife...bitch was real sociopathic...thank god she gone...
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I have had tough times with myself when reading descriptions of sociopaths, ultimately because of this:
-I see how to utilize people.
-I grow tired very quickly of people's day to day trivialities and incompetence.
-I can easily adapt for "short-con" situations. I can tell anyone anything as long as they will go away quickly and I don't have to see them again.
-I constantly ask myself "what is the appropriate emotion for this situation, everyone else seems to be deeply affected and I'm not"
-I seek addictive behaviors.
-I feel much more competent than most people at "thinking," however arrogant this sounds.
-I am able to be unaffected by people's poor life choices and the ensuing problems that come from those choices, or use them to my advantage.
-I don't send my relatives any sort of cards or call them very often at all, they are a nuisance in my life.
But then I ultimately realize this:
-I want people to be the best they can be, and see such strong possibilities in people that will never come to light, and it hurts me.
-I have value judgments that influence the way I am...it is not "cold." It's simply effective and ultimately comes from love and respect for myself and others. (IE, I don't have time to deal with the fact that most people do not have goals and are constantly getting into bad relationships, bad money problems, etc, and I can only show them by example how to live a well-adjusted life...I can't constantly spend my time helping people figure out basic day to day shit)
-I don't feel people are honest enough, and I'm sort of like...fixing the average. So I will be very truthful and honest to people even if it's rude.
-I truthfuly try to understand and help those closest to me...but I will shut off that sort of counseling, or completely end the relationship with no sort of warning if they prove to just be using me and/or continuing poor behavior.
- I seek complicated, stimulating things. Most peoples' banter and lives are just so boring that it's like air passing through my ears.
- I have sobbed deeply about things in my own life, other peoples' lives, and because of art, and I can admit to other people when I feel saddended or unconfident.
- I have felt emotionally motivated to get the fuck up and dance my ass off in front of other people or not, and with or without drugs.
With that being said, I seem to notice that essentially I'm PHLEGMATIC, and not Sociopathic...but the qualities of a phlegmatic person are also tied into the definition of a sociopath very often and that creates a lot of confusion in my opinion.
When I think of sociopath/psychopath, I think of Patrick Bateman in American Psycho. Outward he is perfect, inward he is a ball of rage that wants nothing but to fit in. He is able to keep appearances up so well that his own secretary isn't even aware of his lack of appointments during the day. Nothing stimulates him except pain, death, and rage.
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Hey Ballervision,
To most people a sociopath/psychopath is someone to be feared (they're not really unless you're in some kind of a relationship with one). A lot of people, upon knowing and understanding the definition of said sociopath/psychopath may think of themselves as afflicted by this disorder. If you think this of yourself, and it makes you uncomfortable and uneasy, then most likely you aren't. A true socio takes pride in knowing that they are 'special', that the conventional rules of empathy (or feeling for others) don't apply to them. They are free from this human quality.
To know the answer about yourself, ask yourself two questions - Do I feel empathy for others? Could I intentionally hurt someone without guilt? In reality we have all done this, most likely as youngsters or as a personal experiment of sorts, but what truly separates the socio from the rest of us is that most of us feel a certain degree of guilt and shame upon wronging another - a conscience factor kicks in and gives us pause from repeating the process. Sociopaths don't have the ability to empathize, they can't even grasp the concept and consequently don't understand it. All they can do is mirror what they may see and 'fake it'.
It's one thing to be bored or tired of someone else's silly problems and think "Oh Christ, when will this person shut up and get on with it", but it's quite another to think "How can can I become this person's beneficiary and then push them over the edge to suicide". A sociopath doesn't have boundaries that would conflict with their own interests - everything is about themselves and once you have served your purpose to a socio, you are expendable.
Being phlegmatic is far removed from a sociopath, you may not suffer fools well, but you certainly aren't unfeeling of others. Are you ??
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Or maybe you yourself have been diagnosed with an anti-social personality disorder? If so I'd love to hear from you. I find this phenomenon fascinating.
For those who don't know what a sociopath is, they are people who:
.. are incapable of empathy towards their fellow human beings
.. emotions such as guilt, shame or remorse are non-existent
.. have a shallow capacity for love
.. show superficial charm and glibness
.. think of emotional people as weak and justifiable in targeting for opportunity
.. sometimes lack a realistic life plan and have no second thoughts leading a parasitic lifestyle off others
.. can remain hidden among the general population by simply 'acting' as though they understand what comprises human compassion
They have been called "empty souls" but most are harmless, although you probably don't want to be in a relationship with one. You've probably passed a few on the street today. They comprise an estimated 1% of the general population, and up to 3% of leaders in the corporate and political world (ruthlessness can get you places if you have no conscience). Commonly, they will double-cross or back-stab you without hesitation if they think it will serve their purpose.
Sociopaths and Psychopaths are technically the same thing, although in my mind the word 'psychopath' describes someone who is dangerous in that they may enjoy harming others while the sociopath simply doesn't care about others. Many, if not most serial killers are sociopaths. They can be manipulative and conning, never recognize the rights of others and see their self-serving behaviors as permissible. They appear to be charming, yet are covertly hostile and domineering, seeing their victim as merely an instrument to be used. They may dominate and humiliate their victims. You do not want to battle a sociopath - however far you are willing to take things, they will be willing to escalate things further.
Other common traits include:
- pathological lying
- Need for Stimulation; Living on the edge. Verbal outbursts and physical punishments are normal. Promiscuity and gambling are common.
- not learning from experience
- no sense of responsibility
- self-centeredness
- inability to control impulses
- sometimes show strange inappropriate emotional responses to certain events/scenarios
Generally sociopaths hate to be found out as their power (and they do think of themselves as gifted) hinges on the fact that others must not know what they truly feel and think. If they think you are "on to them" they will avoid you if possible or try and turn others against you, however this anonymous forum offers a unique way for any of you diagnosed socio's to speak out without any repercussions what-so-ever. THAT would be my gold standard - find an converse with a diagnosed sociopath.
If you yourself are a sociopath here are some things I would ask you:
If you have ever had someone in your family die, what was your thought process?
Have you ever knowingly harmed another person either mentally, financially or physically? How badly?
Are you in a relationship right now? If so does the other person know about your disorder? How have any other relationships ended?
Are you pissed off at my commentary in describing a sociopath? Does it make you feel anything negative or do you feel it is accurate?
Assuming you do drugs (and this is the Silk Road forum) do you do a lot or just every now and then? Have you ever done drugs in an entirely inappropriate setting like while babysitting or piloting a plane?
Ok 'nuff said for now.
I am actually a diagnosed sociopath who has been hospitalized, both for sociopathy and bipolar 1 with psychotic features. That was when I was young and stupid/naive.. I am pretty stable now. I would be happy to discuss my psyche with you, anonymous discussion of this topic isn't a common opportunity doncha know. It sounds fun. Shoot me a message with some questions and I'll do my best to help.
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Sirus. Glad to meet you.
I'm going to take you at face value when you say you are a diagnosed sociopath. You could just be some dude who's bored and wants to toy with others, but that is exactly what a socio likes to do, so ... how-zit-going?
Here are some questions I have for you:
How well do you think you understand the word 'empathy'
If you have ever had someone in your family die, what was your thought process?
Have you ever knowingly harmed another person either mentally, financially or physically? How badly?
Are you in a relationship right now? If so does the other person know about your disorder? How have any other relationships ended?
Are you pissed off at my commentary in describing a sociopath? Does it make you feel anything negative or do you feel it is accurate?
Assuming you do drugs (and this is the Silk Road forum) do you do a lot or just every now and then? Have you ever done drugs in an entirely inappropriate setting like while babysitting or piloting a plane?
There's just a few to start. If this becomes an ongoing thread we'll have to get to better, more "frank" discussions.
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I know a guy who is diagnosed.
He's pretty creepy, he obviously does not understand or care about emotions, or morality. Has no concept of what is right or wrong, only what society considers right and wrong.
I was once given 3 Intuniv tablets while the drug was still in testing. I do not know if this is the same Intuniv that is prescribed now, however it was probably the closest I have ever come to understanding sociopath, it was truly a fucked up experience, my emotions were SEVERELY dulled and mostly non-existent.
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Marked for later readz.
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Sirus. Glad to meet you.
I'm going to take you at face value when you say you are a diagnosed sociopath. You could just be some dude who's bored and wants to toy with others, but that is exactly what a socio likes to do, so ... how-zit-going?
Here are some questions I have for you:
How well do you think you understand the word 'empathy'
If you have ever had someone in your family die, what was your thought process?
Have you ever knowingly harmed another person either mentally, financially or physically? How badly?
Are you in a relationship right now? If so does the other person know about your disorder? How have any other relationships ended?
Are you pissed off at my commentary in describing a sociopath? Does it make you feel anything negative or do you feel it is accurate?
Assuming you do drugs (and this is the Silk Road forum) do you do a lot or just every now and then? Have you ever done drugs in an entirely inappropriate setting like while babysitting or piloting a plane?
There's just a few to start. If this becomes an ongoing thread we'll have to get to better, more "frank" discussions.
Nice to meet you as well, and no worries I'm on the level.. you guys trying to understand us fascinate me on some I guess, and I don't have many opportunities for anonymous discussion of the topic.
I actually think that I apply empathy more efficiently than most other people I meet.. I usually use it to manipulate or control I guess (who doesn't?).. however I also use it for blending in, and often I'll show empathy to support a person who interests me for whatever reason.
Um, family.. I don't really think about them except for my younger brother, hes my biz partner and the only person I trust. When family does die I always asses how it effects me, if it doesn't then meh.. we'll see what happens when my bro dies I guess.. which could be soon as he's got a terminal condition now.
Haha, well yeah.. pretty bad.. Irreparably i guess?
I am in my first serious relationship, I picked a broken suicidal girl and am rebuilding her... Which is tough but rewarding. I think I'm improving her as well as ensuring that she is loyal. I don't think that sociopaths are the only ones playing that game though. Overall, sometimes I reflexively act like a dick.. but again, not just sociopaths. I am territorial and jealous at times as well..
I didn't really think about it. I think it's funny that even when talking about sociopaths people think that we can be pegged to a list of behaviors.. the smart ones are scary because we read your lists too.
I'm no junkie, I have gotten pretty strung out in the past, but it got old long ago. However I still always use for holidays like xmas, as well as most family interaction.. otherwise I can get myself cornered with overly-aggressive games. I tend to ignore this rule if I'm feeling hilarious or arrogant.
That's what I got, I tried to keep it first draft and not overwork it.. I'm curious to see where this goes..
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Nice to meet you as well, and no worries I'm on the level.. you guys trying to understand us fascinate me on some I guess, and I don't have many opportunities for anonymous discussion of the topic.
I actually think that I apply empathy more efficiently than most other people I meet.. I usually use it to manipulate or control I guess (who doesn't?).. however I also use it for blending in, and often I'll show empathy to support a person who interests me for whatever reason.
Um, family.. I don't really think about them except for my younger brother, hes my biz partner and the only person I trust. When family does die I always asses how it effects me, if it doesn't then meh.. we'll see what happens when my bro dies I guess.. which could be soon as he's got a terminal condition now.
Haha, well yeah.. pretty bad.. Irreparably i guess?
I am in my first serious relationship, I picked a broken suicidal girl and am rebuilding her... Which is tough but rewarding. I think I'm improving her as well as ensuring that she is loyal. I don't think that sociopaths are the only ones playing that game though. Overall, sometimes I reflexively act like a dick.. but again, not just sociopaths. I am territorial and jealous at times as well..
I didn't really think about it. I think it's funny that even when talking about sociopaths people think that we can be pegged to a list of behaviors.. the smart ones are scary because we read your lists too.
I'm no junkie, I have gotten pretty strung out in the past, but it got old long ago. However I still always use for holidays like xmas, as well as most family interaction.. otherwise I can get myself cornered with overly-aggressive games. I tend to ignore this rule if I'm feeling hilarious or arrogant.
That's what I got, I tried to keep it first draft and not overwork it.. I'm curious to see where this goes..
+1 to you sir.
This could be cool. BTW about how are old are you? I'm assuming you're a guy.
Of course you're right when you say that all sociopaths can't be pegged to specific behavioral traits. Like anything, people who suffer from the same illness, or disorder exhibit different symptoms. (no offense directly meant )
It's interesting when you say you 'apply' empathy more efficiently than most people. Empathy isn't really something most people apply, it's what most people involuntarily feel to various degrees, like happiness. Thoughts?
It's even more interesting that you say you would 'use' it on people since empathy is a very personal emotion; it's how you personally identify with someone else's condition. It can only effect you. It seems as though you are equating empathy to what empathy can lead to - compassion. It's almost like you've skipped over something and you only see one possible result of the emotion - a display of compassion - which is really the only way to 'use' it against someone I guess. Any comments on this observation ?
I'm sorry for your brothers condition, I hope he beats it and comes out well. Is he aware of your condition? If so do you think he truly understands it? Does anyone else in your family know of it?
In what way did you harm the other person? Was it violent, financial, emotional? Where is that person today, are they still in you life?
The relationship you're in right now - It's interesting that you say you ".. picked a broken suicidal girl and (are) rebuilding her.. " You must be aware that that statement in itself, the way you expressed it, makes it sounds like you're a bit of a control freak. No? What about this person are you most attracted to?
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Very interesting thread, I'm starting to connect :o
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I'm in my mid twenties, and yes I'm a dude.
Ooh, that's interesting.. I've never actually thought of empathy that way.. I always thought of it as more of an understanding of someone's situation than an emotional response.. I feel stupid now, this is neat already!
As for "using" it on people.. I guess I don't see the point of empathy unless you use it somehow for better or worse.. otherwise It seems like a waste of effort.. It seems to me that if you plan to interact with a person you need to understand where that person is coming from, unless you are in control at the get go. Idk, it's a strenuous topic, I'll think more on it.
My whole family knows about me, they either blow it off or are scared of me. My brother is the only one who seems neither blithe nor afraid. He actually can often keep me in check if I am getting too out of hand, I guess I trust his judgement.
I have a thing against stealing, so I avoid that if possible. I have destroyed many people emotionally.. often for fun or intellectual stimulation. I like seeing what makes people tick. In my foolish youth I was very violent, almost killed a couple people, as cathartic as violence is I have managed to reign that in. I have had to leave my town I was brought up in and I tend to stay mobile overall.
As for my girl, she is very accepting, and she became attracted to me during a particularly unlovable spot in my life.. Yeah, I am a bit of a control freak, but I try to stay subtle. I try to make her my defining purpose, hence the image of her as a project. It helps keep my life "on track".
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I'm in my mid twenties, and yes I'm a dude.
Ooh, that's interesting.. I've never actually thought of empathy that way.. I always thought of it as more of an understanding of someone's situation than an emotional response.. I feel stupid now, this is neat already!
There are two types of emotion, cognitive and affective. Sociopaths maintain cognitive empathy but have severely diminished or nonexistent affective empathy. An understanding of someones situation is cognitive empathy, the emotional response that this elicits in neurotypical humans is affective empathy. Autistic people would be more likely to have the inverse of what you do, in that they would have emotional response but an inability to correctly identify somebodies situation, thus leading to an incorrect emotional response. I actually feel as if I have 'better' cognitive empathy than affective empathy though.
As for "using" it on people.. I guess I don't see the point of empathy unless you use it somehow for better or worse.. otherwise It seems like a waste of effort.. It seems to me that if you plan to interact with a person you need to understand where that person is coming from, unless you are in control at the get go. Idk, it's a strenuous topic, I'll think more on it.
This shows that your perspective of empathy is entirely from a cognitive point of view. You don't see the point of trying to understand another persons situation unless you can use that knowledge to your advantage. The thing is that in addition to neurotypical people having a desire to understand the situations of others, the understanding they come to causes an automatic emotional response in them. IMO you cannot even really use that emotional response for anything, it is not an intellectual tool but rather a social tool. If you feel sad when someone else does, you will be more likely to support them in some way to make them not feel sad, and then your own empathy induced feeling of sadness will go away by comforting them, thus you have a motivation to comfort others, and it is good for society when everybody has a collective desire to comfort each other even if they don't directly gain anything from it. I certainly think that to an extent it is good to have some affective empathy, but I think that it is counterproductive to logical thinking as well. Somebody who passes a law out of empathy for others may get some emotional reward in doing so even if the law they pass is counterproductive to what they intended, but they will have trouble to see this if it requires logical analysis of information, because the emotional response they get from their action is immediate and gratifying. People with strong affective emotional characteristics are also easily manipulated people, and people with the theoretic/cognitive understanding of empathy can and do use this as a weakness to manipulate them. A lot of the problems in our world are made worse by the fact that strongly emotional non-analytical people are manipulated by non emotional strongly analytical people.
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Siris - thanks for answering my questions so far, it’s insightful. Please, don’t feel silly or stupid about anything. I’m asking questions about empathy, something you technically can’t fully grasp through no fault of your own. I’d also like to add that while some questions may seem a bit ‘harsh’ to some people, I’m not trying to demonize anyone. In fact, I believe that most sociopaths are harmless to most people. It’s just a very interesting condition that I personally find fascinating.
You say that your whole family knows about you and some are scared of you; is this because they’ve seen you do ‘bad’ things, or because they don’t understand what your condition is? Do you think they are justified in being afraid of you?
Most of the people that you destroyed emotionally, were they close to you or more casual acquaintances? And the people you say you almost killed in your youth – was it out of anger, vengeance, what was the source of the anger?
And your girlfriend, how would you feel if she just up and walked away today, right now?
So just some other questions in my head (I know it’s a lot, feel free to pass some over):
Have you ever encountered someone else who identifies your condition without having been told by you or anyone else? What was the chemistry like between you and that person?
As mentioned earlier in this thread, there are different degrees of sociopathy, the most severely afflicted people can be dangerous to be around. On a scale of 1 to 10, how severe would you say your condition is? (1 being mild, 10 being severe). Or is this something you’ve not given much thought to?
Do you know any other diagnosed socio’s? If yes, what’s your relationship like with them?
Cheers
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Well, most of my family has had to deal with me at one point or another in my youth. I was much more difficult back then and far less tolerant of stupidity or weakness. I had to learn tolerance the hard way I guess. I think they are justified, but only because they aren't going to develop as people enough to accurately perceive their lives. That sounds mean, but it's honestly the only way to say it if you know my family.
Both near and and distant people I will target, passive aggression and Stockholm scenarios are my favorite, it's easier with close people I guess. Often I am simply trying to teach a lesson or find out a truth.
Fighting takes place as product of frustration or necessity, I tend to find conflict as I have a pretty alpha mentality. It is cathartic I guess.. I am careful not to let my mild sadism descend into bad taste though. I try to be fair.
I.. would likely throw a pretty big fit. I would probably fuck up and reset my life to zero one way or the other.. Idk, its sort of an unknown until it happens I guess.
I don't get caught often. I had a sharp therapist one time. I ignored her and she filed paperwork.
Never thought about it honestly.. I know I have good taste.
I have a dealer who is one. he is useful, but I keep him ignorant loyal and under a firm glass ceiling... He isn't brilliant so I don't worry too much. I have another friend, he is pretty tight with me, however I have to occasionally keep him in check.
Yikes, I sound pretty awful on paper. Really, I am more pleasant than this breakdown makes me sound ;D
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Just my opinion but I think a term like sociopath tends to just place a convenient label on a complex situation. I sort of look at people like computers. We all have the hardware we are built with (genes) and the software we are programed with (environmental conditioning). If you take two identical pieces of hardware and give them different programing they will behave differently, but if you feed the same hardware the same software you will run the same program. What I mean by all this is that social disorders are created at least in part by the society that has to deal with them.
Under the same variables fed to a sociopath you to would behave the same way. We are all capable of great sacrifice and selfishness and it's only circumstance that dictates one over the other.
I only mention this because it's easy to label someone as something but harder to appreciate that if we had lived their lives we would be the same person. I think most people are inclined to search for love, companionship, understanding and a sense of belonging but some are just never given a tool set that lets them achieve it. I can't really blame them for their "failings" when it was likely society that failed them. Some bully at school that taught a kid he didn't belong. Some lost love that told him he would never be worthy. Any number of accidents of fate that were they to have been our burdens to bear we would carry the same cross.
It's an interesting topic though I just thought I'd put out the opposing view that social disorders do not belong to the person but to the society that failed that person.
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" ..are incapable of empathy towards their fellow human beings
.. emotions such as guilt, shame or remorse are non-existent
.. have a shallow capacity for love
.. show superficial charm and glibness
.. think of emotional people as weak and justifiable in targeting for opportunity
.. sometimes lack a realistic life plan and have no second thoughts leading a parasitic lifestyle off others
.. can remain hidden among the general population by simply 'acting' as though they understand what comprises human compassion"
I USED to think I was , but the idea of having no compassion VERY much sickens me. It's one of the greatest fucking things about being human! That feeling you get when someone is hurting. I get so fucking depressed. Fuck. Pardon the language, but srsly.
Every other point fits me to a T. Oh, that and the lack of a capacity for love... but I see that the same as the being compassionate. One cannot be compassionate with having no real love to share. >:(
Only the weak take advantage of others. The strong in our species take care of this unable to fend for themselves, but the compassionate ought to try and work with others, to show them that when ones gores through absolute hell, get treated like a leper, it will either strengthen their character , or cause them to become violent, weak dickbags.
Sarry, tis late. =.=
Edit: I am actually stuck on this one. I mean, we're WAY too complex. We are not that smart. Yes, there are some damaged individuals, but people do what they do for a reason. And unless they have some kind of, idk, imbalance? They deserve some kind of help. And to not show them SOME mercy, is that not a trait of a socio? I consider myself, for example. I have done some VERY bad things to others. Always fucking up everything I have ever done, literally. Prison, etc. Only thing I have never done, is beat someone. I hate violence. It shows a lack of discipline, which I'll always lack. But am working on that each day. I just think people get pushed off to the side too much because we ALL hate to deal with others. We have our own plates, so why bother? Fuck them people, right? Lock em away, light em on fire, etc.
Idk, human beings are complex beasts.
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" ..are incapable of empathy towards their fellow human beings
.. emotions such as guilt, shame or remorse are non-existent
.. have a shallow capacity for love
.. show superficial charm and glibness
.. think of emotional people as weak and justifiable in targeting for opportunity
.. sometimes lack a realistic life plan and have no second thoughts leading a parasitic lifestyle off others
.. can remain hidden among the general population by simply 'acting' as though they understand what comprises human compassion"
I USED to think I was , but the idea of having no compassion VERY much sickens me. It's one of the greatest fucking things about being human! That feeling you get when someone is hurting. I get so fucking depressed. Fuck. Pardon the language, but srsly.
Every other point fits me to a T. Oh, that and the lack of a capacity for love... but I see that the same as the being compassionate. One cannot be compassionate with having no real love to share. >:(
Only the weak take advantage of others. The strong in our species take care of this unable to fend for themselves, but the compassionate ought to try and work with others, to show them that when ones gores through absolute hell, get treated like a leper, it will either strengthen their character , or cause them to become violent, weak dickbags.
Sarry, tis late. =.=
Edit: I am actually stuck on this one. I mean, we're WAY too complex. We are not that smart. Yes, there are some damaged individuals, but people do what they do for a reason. And unless they have some kind of, idk, imbalance? They deserve some kind of help. And to not show them SOME mercy, is that not a trait of a socio? I consider myself, for example. I have done some VERY bad things to others. Always fucking up everything I have ever done, literally. Prison, etc. Only thing I have never done, is beat someone. I hate violence. It shows a lack of discipline, which I'll always lack. But am working on that each day. I just think people get pushed off to the side too much because we ALL hate to deal with others. We have our own plates, so why bother? Fuck them people, right? Lock em away, light em on fire, etc.
Idk, human beings are complex beasts.
Well, I for one have had to learn compassion, at least functionally. Granted my motives tend to be incorrect... I guess... but does that really matter? I mean "regular" people seem weak and unable to do the right thing when the boots are at the necks. I stand by my principles.. likely because they are principles and not mercurial emotions or a thinly veiled fear response.
On the other hand, I would be lying to say that I won't change the rules if my incentives are strong enough. I have a few people that I care about, people who are loyal and who need me. Outside of them I just don't care one way or the other about people. Often I will miss something in my calculations, and that is where my brother will let me know that I am out of line and need to re-asses my position. I do try to help those wronged, but only because it is the right thing to do.. not because I feel some weird emotive mind meld with them. I honestly cant comprehend that odd connection everyone seems to share.. For which I am thankful overall.
My point is, even sociopaths can rig the game to keep things running smoothly. I was a piece of shit back in the day, but have since learned that playing nice often benefits all. You just can't get twisted by fear, or frustration, or self-pity, or bitterness, or any of that shit I see people embrace every day out of weakness.
Just my perspective..
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I'm a "sociopath" accordingly, and a "misanthrope". I'm the worst thing to happen to mankind since Bill Cosby or Stalin. (Hehehe)
But yeah, I'm a diagnosed sociopath. In all honesty, none of those actually apply to me. Maybe lack of empathy, I could honestly give a rats ass about someone, unless they are close to me (such as a family member or close friend) but other than that none of those actually apply to me personally. And as for the misanthrope part, I just distrust everyone. No trust, in anyone. I think there are different types of sociopaths, such as myself which only lack empathy (and not really sociopaths in all fairness) and others who are the textbook definition of someone like The Joker. If you're fascinated by sociopaths you should really look into The Joker from Batman (DC Comics), he's fictional but he is a very fascinating character to look at when looking into sociopaths, especially the Christopher Nolan's adaptation he's the perfect example of what a true sociopath really is.
I know a lot of sociopaths who are textbook definitions of what you just described and most of them are very successful in life. Hold high positions in work or if not that run very successful businesses. I think being a sociopath gives you an advantage over the rest of society, which can't be described in words. A good example would be something along the lines (this is only an example, I'm using "I" as an example. It's the best example I can come up with from the top of my head, I'm not actually like this) If I ran a country for example, I'd probably want more power so I'd invade another country and I'd try to take over it. No matter the cost, no matter the sacrifice, as long as the end goal is achieved and I'm the victor, everything I did is "justified". Whereas for people who show compassion or even hate the thought of doing something not by the books wouldn't be able to accomplish this goal. This is why most country leaders and their generals are sociopaths. It's very hard for people to understand who aren't themselves a sociopath, or even to study it. Most sociopaths who tend to enjoy watching others suffer or in agony tend to be more than just a sociopath.
~ Cooler.
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I’ve said it before but I think it’s important to note that most sociopaths are not dangerous. There are however differing degrees of sociopathy – The Hare scale (named after Bob Hare a Canadian Psychiatrist who came up with it) is a checklist of sorts. A person does not have to have every symptom to be diagnosed as a Sociopath. Narcissism is a close cousin of Sociopathology and shares a lot of the same symptoms.
The Joker in the batman comics is beyond a sociopath – he is a violent psychopath that enjoys watching others suffer, he is addicted to the power he feels when causing destruction. He is pure evil, and people like him do exist IRL, although they are truly far and few in number, thank God.
A socio can still have strong emotional feelings and even a moral compass of sorts. They can be a really strong and loyal friend, as long as they see the advantages to the friendship – just don’t expect them to provide genuine heartfelt comfort in your ‘time of need’ and don’t ever cross them.
And so enter Cooler – you say that none of the classic symptoms apply to you except a lack of empathy, but if family is involved you suddenly have the ability to empathize. THE defining characteristic of a sociopath is the inability to experience empathy at all. Ever. Compassion is another story, we all have the ability to be compassionate, even the most hardened socio usually knows when it is appropriate and how to ‘apply’ it (as Siris mentioned) but a socio doesn’t apply compassion to make themselves feel better, they do it either for manipulation or to further another goal.
Cooler – were you diagnosed by a doctor? Or is it something a councilor or therapist mentioned?
I believe that Siris is actually a diagnosed sociopath because of two things:
1) The very first question he answered about empathy showed that he believed it was a conditioned response, something you would ‘apply’, not an involuntary internal emotion.
2) He doesn’t seem to shy away from the harsh points that define his condition, He doesn’t debate them or look for alternate justifications as to why some apply to him; he just doesn’t seem to care. His responses to questions about people around him indicate that he’s indifferent to most people but that he hates to see emotional weakness. He feels it’s unnecessary and pointless which is exactly how someone without the ability to empathize would feel. ‘Normal’ people may get frustrated with drama queens, but they would also be able to self-identify when someone is truly distressed.
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I’ve said it before but I think it’s important to note that most sociopaths are not dangerous. There are however differing degrees of sociopathy – The Hare scale (named after Bob Hare a Canadian Psychiatrist who came up with it) is a checklist of sorts. A person does not have to have every symptom to be diagnosed as a Sociopath. Narcissism is a close cousin of Sociopathology and shares a lot of the same symptoms.
The Joker in the batman comics is beyond a sociopath – he is a violent psychopath that enjoys watching others suffer, he is addicted to the power he feels when causing destruction. He is pure evil, and people like him do exist IRL, although they are truly far and few in number, thank God.
A socio can still have strong emotional feelings and even a moral compass of sorts. They can be a really strong and loyal friend, as long as they see the advantages to the friendship – just don’t expect them to provide genuine heartfelt comfort in your ‘time of need’ and don’t ever cross them.
And so enter Cooler – you say that none of the classic symptoms apply to you except a lack of empathy, but if family is involved you suddenly have the ability to empathize. THE defining characteristic of a sociopath is the inability to experience empathy at all. Ever. Compassion is another story, we all have the ability to be compassionate, even the most hardened socio usually knows when it is appropriate and how to ‘apply’ it (as Siris mentioned) but a socio doesn’t apply compassion to make themselves feel better, they do it either for manipulation or to further another goal.
Cooler – were you diagnosed by a doctor? Or is it something a councilor or therapist mentioned?
I believe that Siris is actually a diagnosed sociopath because of two things:
1) The very first question he answered about empathy showed that he believed it was a conditioned response, something you would ‘apply’, not an involuntary internal emotion.
2) He doesn’t seem to shy away from the harsh points that define his condition, He doesn’t debate them or look for alternate justifications as to why some apply to him; he just doesn’t seem to care. His responses to questions about people around him indicate that he’s indifferent to most people but that he hates to see emotional weakness. He feels it’s unnecessary and pointless which is exactly how someone without the ability to empathize would feel. ‘Normal’ people may get frustrated with drama queens, but they would also be able to self-identify when someone is truly distressed.
In fact I was diagnosed by a psychologist. Long time ago though, like 5 or 6 years ago. Maybe less. But yes, I'm considered to be a sociopath. Maybe I'm being extremely bias, perhaps I can't see the things and all of the symptoms that apply from my point of view, maybe I'm the worst of the bunch. As far as I can see it, only the lack of empathy point applies to me. To me, sociopath is only a label. A bad one at that. It's hard to judge someone, or even come to a conclusion whether they may be a sociopath or not without knowing them, or seeing their habits and interactions with others, or even without talking to them from a face-to-face point of view.
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To someone who has it:
1. When you encounter an emotion you don't understand do you stop to analyze the situation or do you act by instinct?
2.Do you like animals? (there is a lot of emotion going on between pet and owner) Would you keep a pet that has no practical value? (Like a goldfish)An animal that relies on you and gives back nothing in return?
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To someone who has it:
1. When you encounter an emotion you don't understand do you stop to analyze the situation or do you act by instinct?
2.Do you like animals? (there is a lot of emotion going on between pet and owner) Would you keep a pet that has no practical value? (Like a goldfish)An animal that relies on you and gives back nothing in return?
1. Depends on the situation. Most of the time, me personally I just rely on instinct.
2. No.
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I haven't met a sociopath yet but I have met a couple of people with histrionic personality disorder for sure and borderline personality disorder as well.
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To someone who has it:
1. When you encounter an emotion you don't understand do you stop to analyze the situation or do you act by instinct?
2.Do you like animals? (there is a lot of emotion going on between pet and owner) Would you keep a pet that has no practical value? (Like a goldfish)An animal that relies on you and gives back nothing in return?
1. I usually analyze personally if at all possible. If there's no time or I cant work it out I retreat or become aggressive.. depending on the situation.
2.I've had a few pets, I do well with animals. They tend to be submissive, and I feel comfortable with them. On the other hand I used to kill my neighborhood mutts for kicks on nice nights.... well, I like my animals.
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Just my opinion but I think a term like sociopath tends to just place a convenient label on a complex situation. I sort of look at people like computers. We all have the hardware we are built with (genes) and the software we are programed with (environmental conditioning). If you take two identical pieces of hardware and give them different programing they will behave differently, but if you feed the same hardware the same software you will run the same program. What I mean by all this is that social disorders are created at least in part by the society that has to deal with them.
Under the same variables fed to a sociopath you to would behave the same way. We are all capable of great sacrifice and selfishness and it's only circumstance that dictates one over the other.
I only mention this because it's easy to label someone as something but harder to appreciate that if we had lived their lives we would be the same person. I think most people are inclined to search for love, companionship, understanding and a sense of belonging but some are just never given a tool set that lets them achieve it. I can't really blame them for their "failings" when it was likely society that failed them. Some bully at school that taught a kid he didn't belong. Some lost love that told him he would never be worthy. Any number of accidents of fate that were they to have been our burdens to bear we would carry the same cross.
It's an interesting topic though I just thought I'd put out the opposing view that social disorders do not belong to the person but to the society that failed that person.
This is why some people differentiate between sociopath and psychopath. A sociopath is caused by environmental variables, a psychopath has faulty hardware.
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Just my opinion but I think a term like sociopath tends to just place a convenient label on a complex situation. I sort of look at people like computers. We all have the hardware we are built with (genes) and the software we are programed with (environmental conditioning). If you take two identical pieces of hardware and give them different programing they will behave differently, but if you feed the same hardware the same software you will run the same program. What I mean by all this is that social disorders are created at least in part by the society that has to deal with them.
Under the same variables fed to a sociopath you to would behave the same way. We are all capable of great sacrifice and selfishness and it's only circumstance that dictates one over the other.
I only mention this because it's easy to label someone as something but harder to appreciate that if we had lived their lives we would be the same person. I think most people are inclined to search for love, companionship, understanding and a sense of belonging but some are just never given a tool set that lets them achieve it. I can't really blame them for their "failings" when it was likely society that failed them. Some bully at school that taught a kid he didn't belong. Some lost love that told him he would never be worthy. Any number of accidents of fate that were they to have been our burdens to bear we would carry the same cross.
It's an interesting topic though I just thought I'd put out the opposing view that social disorders do not belong to the person but to the society that failed that person.
This is why some people differentiate between sociopath and psychopath. A sociopath is caused by environmental variables, a psychopath has faulty hardware.
I disagree with both these opinions. It's been said by many psychiatrists that sociopathology and psychopathology are medically defined as the same thing, although my personal definition would say that a psychopath is an extreme sociopath, perhaps hitting more marks on the Hare scale and being somewhat dangerous to people around them. I believe that people who have this condition are born with it and that there is no 'cure'. It just ain't possible to 'make' someone feel empathy if they can't grasp it. It's like trying to to force a brown eyed person to have green eyes, that's just not how they're made.
Which is why I find it so interesting. Why are some of us missing this ability? It wouldn't be so fascinating if it was common for some of us to not know what happiness or anger or any other base human emotion is, but the fact is that only only in very rare cases are humans found who lack these things. But when it comes to empathy an estimated 1 in 100 of us (1%) are completely missing it. I've read that empathy is a relatively new emotion in human evolution, I don't know if that's true or not, but it may explain why some of us don't have it - if not for one thing - sociopathology isn't genetically inherited, it doesn't seem to have anything at all to do with family, racial or even economic background. There's a socio among all strata. It's a genetic mystery. Maybe one day some egghead scientist will identify a gene that denotes a persons propensity to sociopathy, but I kind of doubt it.
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There's probably loads on this forum.