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Market => Product requests => Topic started by: Kaarsje on February 27, 2012, 11:04 am

Title: Chemists
Post by: Kaarsje on February 27, 2012, 11:04 am
Looking for some organic chemists to do some work together about OTC methods for the Mdxx family.
Just give me a shout out on pm ;-)
Title: Re: Chemists
Post by: tordemon on February 27, 2012, 07:17 pm
Looking for some organic chemists to do some work together about OTC methods for the Mdxx family.
Just give me a shout out on pm ;-)
Damn, wish I knew more chemistry. Sounds very interesting. =]
Title: Re: Chemists
Post by: obama on February 28, 2012, 09:58 am
what exactly are you looking for?
Title: Re: Chemists
Post by: greatgreatgrandpa on February 28, 2012, 03:57 pm
There isn't a "Shake and Bake" method, The wacker oxidation method is more involved than bathtub crank, as well as the fact that your precursor acquisitions will undoubtedly put a target on your back....


Be Safe

ggg
Title: Re: Chemists
Post by: Kaarsje on February 29, 2012, 11:54 am
what exactly are you looking for?

I think that is clear ;-)
Looking for some chemists to do some theoretical work together.
Title: Re: Chemists
Post by: Kaarsje on February 29, 2012, 11:56 am
There isn't a "Shake and Bake" method, The wacker oxidation method is more involved than bathtub crank, as well as the fact that your precursor acquisitions will undoubtedly put a target on your back....


Be Safe

ggg

Who is talking about the "normal" precursors here?
You know that OTC means Over The Counter right?
Title: Re: Chemists
Post by: Mitanox on February 29, 2012, 04:08 pm
If you wish to have a non suspicious precursor for MDMA use Mimosa catechu and extract/synth it into pyrocatechol and then in piperonal. You will however need a fuckload of it. Alternatively you can just try to find a supplier for pyrocatechol, it all depends on your location in the end :) You might even buy PyroCat and work your way up from there.

Anyways, I think I have just caused a new upcoming MDMA shortage due to LE reading along with me :P
Title: Re: Chemists
Post by: BuddyRoyale on February 29, 2012, 04:29 pm
Why would you go through that extraction and processing when you could convert carbolic acid to safrole just as easily with much less suspicion?
Title: Re: Chemists
Post by: Mitanox on February 29, 2012, 09:59 pm
Why would you go through that extraction and processing when you could convert carbolic acid to safrole just as easily with much less suspicion?

Youre right. Taking the raw material and extracting it yourself is always preferable imho because you dont really need to explain yourself for buying wood. Getting the carbolic acid out of black pepper would be an option though, I havent really researched prices of both but its interesting.
Title: Re: Chemists
Post by: BuddyRoyale on February 29, 2012, 10:12 pm
Why would you go through that extraction and processing when you could convert carbolic acid to safrole just as easily with much less suspicion?

Youre right. Taking the raw material and extracting it yourself is always preferable imho because you dont really need to explain yourself for buying wood. Getting the carbolic acid out of black pepper would be an option though, I havent really researched prices of both but its interesting.

I guess but that will be a huge amount of pepper.  Haven't looked up the actual content.  In the NL or USA there shouldn't be any problem getting this without question or photocopied ID.  But with MDMA at $40 a gram, I'd rather just rely on you when I feel the desire :)
Title: Re: Chemists
Post by: Mitanox on February 29, 2012, 10:27 pm
The cheapest price I found for a kilo of black pepper was 100$, which means you get between 50 and 90 grams of pips out of it :) Its a tad expensive but if you have the rest of your synth dialed in you maybe get a base price of 5$ per gram of MDMA including solvents (which are reusable if done right) and glassware and the write-off you have on them. But yeah, better rely on me when getting your MDMA :D Cant have people go synthesizing their own stuff and putting me out of business haha!

-Edit: I just found a supplier selling dried black pepper (so no water, meaning more of the other stuff) for 5$ a kilo. Thats 1$ for 10 gram pips :D
Title: Re: Chemists
Post by: Kaarsje on March 05, 2012, 06:59 pm
The cheapest price I found for a kilo of black pepper was 100$, which means you get between 50 and 90 grams of pips out of it :) Its a tad expensive but if you have the rest of your synth dialed in you maybe get a base price of 5$ per gram of MDMA including solvents (which are reusable if done right) and glassware and the write-off you have on them. But yeah, better rely on me when getting your MDMA :D Cant have people go synthesizing their own stuff and putting me out of business haha!

-Edit: I just found a supplier selling dried black pepper (so no water, meaning more of the other stuff) for 5$ a kilo. Thats 1$ for 10 gram pips :D

why pepper and start from there?
Why not starting from an mdp2p familiar chemical and start 3 steps further?
Title: Re: Chemists
Post by: wowzers on March 05, 2012, 07:23 pm
I've actually done the pepper---> piperonal route and it's a real hassle.

Black peppercorns contain around 8% piperine by weight, starting with 1 kg pepper you could extract around 80g piperine.
Assuming 100% yields this means you would end up with 42g piperonal after hydrolysis to piperic acid and oxidation to piperonal.
In reality, the recovery after hydrolysis is closer to 80%, and the oxidation around 75%. After recrystallisation, a yield of around 15g of piperonal is more realistic.

This then has to undergo Knoevenagel condensation with nitroethane, reduction to MDP2P and reductive amination.

So, if your technique is shit hot and your reactions are optimised, you could expect around 16g MDMA from 1Kg pepper through 6 steps.
Title: Re: Chemists
Post by: Kaarsje on March 05, 2012, 07:31 pm
Wowzers, ever thought about anethol?
Or alanine?
Title: Re: Chemists
Post by: Mitanox on March 05, 2012, 07:35 pm
@Kaarsje, because pepper is OTC ;) Or is there a MDP2P like chem available which is OTC?

@wowzers, so 62,5 kg of pepper will get you a kilo of MDMA after 6 steps yeah. I guess its a tradeoff between complexity of the process and how many eyebrows you want to raise when buying precursors.

On a sidenote, can anyone shed some light on bromonation 2C-H to 2C-B? Id be very interested in that :D
Title: Re: Chemists
Post by: Kaarsje on March 05, 2012, 07:45 pm
@Kaarsje, because pepper is OTC ;) Or is there a MDP2P like chem available which is OTC?

@wowzers, so 62,5 kg of pepper will get you a kilo of MDMA after 6 steps yeah. I guess its a tradeoff between complexity of the process and how many eyebrows you want to raise when buying precursors.

On a sidenote, can anyone shed some light on bromonation 2C-H to 2C-B? Id be very interested in that :D

There are enough mdp2p like chems that are OTC ;-)
Title: Re: Chemists
Post by: Guybrush Threepwood on March 05, 2012, 08:30 pm
Can bk-MDMA be turned into MDMA?
Is there any way of reducing that ketone without an acid environment that would destroy the methylendioxy ring?
Title: Re: Chemists
Post by: teamwhitehawk on March 05, 2012, 10:29 pm
skilled organic chemist here ...... what type of work do you need help with???
Title: Re: Chemists
Post by: wowzers on March 05, 2012, 10:41 pm
@ Mitanox- theoretically yeah- the limiting factor being how much piperonal you could get from the pepper. The oxidation of piperic acid to piperonal is typically done with KMnO4- manganese oxidations aren't fun on a large scale.

Regarding 2C-H to 2C-B, the bromination can be done using Br2 in acetic acid and is pretty clean, generating the HBr salt which can be cleaned up with some ethyl acetate. You can use any electrophilic brominating agent though, N-Bromosuccinimide (NBS) with a bit of TFA will work well but requires the separation of a molar equivalent of succinimide at the end of the reaction.

@ Kaarsje- Anethole? That would be a protracted and low yielding synthesis. You'd have to convert it to eugenol, then piss around demethylating it, then make safrole (using dichloromethane to form the benzodioxole gives terrible yields), then the usual isomerisation, oxidation, red am. You're looking at at least 7 steps- I guarantee the overall yield would be around 5%. How do you propose converting anethole to eugenol? And as for alanine as a starting material- I'd be very interested to see what you propose for that route  :D

@Guybrush- Reductions such as the Clemmensen would rip up the methylenedioxy ring. I reckon the Huang-Minlon modification of the Wolff-Kishner reduction would work though.
Title: Re: Chemists
Post by: ghbizzle on March 06, 2012, 04:56 am
does anyone know about making mdxx from methylone? i already get lots at a time and i heard its a half yield which is still a good price for me and if anyone knows anything let me know we can make some real money because i been lookng for a chemist to hook up with to do this.
Title: Re: Chemists
Post by: wowzers on March 06, 2012, 01:43 pm
does anyone know about making mdxx from methylone? i already get lots at a time and i heard its a half yield which is still a good price for me and if anyone knows anything let me know we can make some real money because i been lookng for a chemist to hook up with to do this.

PM'd you
Title: Re: Chemists
Post by: Kaarsjes on March 20, 2012, 11:36 am

@ Kaarsje- Anethole? That would be a protracted and low yielding synthesis. You'd have to convert it to eugenol, then piss around demethylating it, then make safrole (using dichloromethane to form the benzodioxole gives terrible yields), then the usual isomerisation, oxidation, red am. You're looking at at least 7 steps- I guarantee the overall yield would be around 5%. How do you propose converting anethole to eugenol? And as for alanine as a starting material- I'd be very interested to see what you propose for that route  :D

New account lost my old password....
Look at the Oxidation of propenylbenzenes to P2P's using Oxone on rhodium, that is going to be a good way I think ;-).

But in some country's it is illegal bcuz its an precursor for PMA.