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Discussion => Drug safety => Topic started by: LaMarisa on March 13, 2013, 08:47 pm

Title: Safest way to work with pure fentanyl powder
Post by: LaMarisa on March 13, 2013, 08:47 pm
Since there are currently, and have been for awhile, a number of vendors selling pure fent powder I thought it would be really good to have a thread dedicated to working with this stuff, since fent is too strong for 99% of people (even those with significant long term opiate tolerances) to just straight out of the bag without dying.  I personally have just bought my first bag of the stuff, once I realized how much less I would need to spend compared to patches, etc.

I searched and couldn't find a thread that dealt with this issue (this one: http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?topic=13549.0  is the closest to it), so I decided to create one.

I AM NOT AN EXPERT AT THIS AT ALL, but I'm hoping I can share my very limited knowledge and that other more experienced fent users or chemists will contribute to keep us all safe.

I got a 100mg bag of fent citrate powder, which is TINY.  I have a cheap scale that goes down to .001g aka 1mg, but I would not rely on it to measure single doses, at all.

Instead I ended up measuring out about 1/4 of the bag (scale said .019g aka 19mg) and, leaving it in the little metal measuring bowl, added 1ml of warm water).  I stirred, dissolving the powder, and then poured this liquid into my nasal spray bottle.  I then washed out the bowl with another 1ml of water and poured that into the bottle.  I then added another 7ml of water and approx 2ml of saline solution to the bottle.  Shook it all up a few times, and this left me with APPROX 20-25mg fent to 10-12ml of water, aka 2mg/ml.  The way the spray mechanism works this should have ended up giving me about 200-300mcg per spray.

The only reason I felt comfortable approximating the numbers is I already know my tolerance for this ROA from consuming a product that was much more carefully prepared at 200mcg/spray.  I knew that I typically used about 4-8 sprays of that stuff at a time to get high, so I had a large margin for error when working with those amounts...even if I fucked up by 500% I would still be able to handle it without ODing.

So that was my tek, and I've sampled the results now and I feel great and high as fuck.  I'm pretty sure I got it exactly right for my tolly.

Disclaimers:
I would NEVER use this method to IV as the margins are waaaaay to small with that ROA.  Smoking or nasal spray is much more forgiving. 
Also, I think it's vital to know your tolerance to fent specifically (not just opiates in general) before you attempt something like this...so maybe buy one of the ready to use preparations available first and figure it out over a few different days of using with that stuff, THEN you can undertake making your own solution. 

I was very much aware of the fact that this tiny tiny quarter inch bag of powder contained enough drugs to kill me probably 20 times over, that even a crumb of it spilled on the floor could kill my dog, etc.

Please feel free to tell me anything I got wrong, or add to this thread with your own methods and advice for people new to working with this intimidating substance. 

Title: Re: Safest way to work with pure fentanyl powder
Post by: LaMarisa on March 14, 2013, 10:33 am
bump:

Seriously guys?  No feedback?  More Safety tips?  Details on how I fucked this up royally?

Anything?
Title: Re: Safest way to work with pure fentanyl powder
Post by: sirius on March 15, 2013, 04:22 am
Aha!
I have actually been dealing with fent powder for the last few months myself. It sounds like you do the same thing I do with the nasal sprays. Sprays really are the only safe and practical way to deal with this shit.
It sounds like you have it down pat, I make up different strengths of sprays for different customers, Anywhere from 50-300 mcg per spray. Always work in a isolated environment, with no drafts or anything, also wear gloves (duh), and a mask.. don't skip the mask. Use an adequate scale, and never ever ever "eyeball" it. Clean up thoroughly, still with protective gear on.. and make sure everything stays clearly and accurately labeled. It's all common sense.
I do know that whatever you do don't try to bulk up fentanyl powder with a cutting agent to ease intranasal dosing. Even the slightest inconsistency can kill you. Nasal spray is the shit. period.
As for I.V.. I have heard nothing but horror stories and death resulting from that ROA, maybe somebody could pipe into the conversation and share on that subject.

Hmmm.. time to go grab a bottle  :)
Title: Re: Safest way to work with pure fentanyl powder
Post by: grdr on March 15, 2013, 08:49 am
Ok now I would do it like this is it safe:

buying lets say 10mg of fentanyl powder so if its 100x more potent than morphine I would buy 10 ml syringe and add 10 ml of water on that powder stir and suck up so now i have 10mg/10ml or 1mg/1ml . 1 mg of fentanyl is about 100mg of morphine or about 40 mg of diamorphine (heroin). This is still alot for new or low tolerance user. So i would buy 1 ml syringe with detachable needle and suck up lets say 0.3ml and put solution drops  into my nose if i want to snort it. So with 0.3ml i would put in 30mg of morphine thats not alot but if I'm new to opiods i would def feel something in 5-10 minutes. if i would need more i would suck up another 0.3ml and proceed on doing the same dropping. if i want to IV I would do the same suck up 0.3ml inject first 0.1ml and see how i feel if need more then do more. Well i think it would be pretty controllable experience. What do you guys think ?
Title: Re: Safest way to work with pure fentanyl powder
Post by: sirius on March 15, 2013, 06:50 pm
That would indeed work, but I heavily recommend going down to the store and getting a nasal spray instead of fucking around with syringes.. mostly for convenience and safety, partly because the spray disperses the dose so effectively in you nose. if you really wanted you can always pop the bottle open and pull some of the solution for iv.. 
Just take the spray, empty it out, refill it with your powder and liquid, shake it up and away you go. 10mg-10ml should work fine, just start with a squirt or two then redose every 5-10 minuets until you're happy. The other nice thing about the spray is that you can carry your fent around wherever you want, and you can dose without a bunch of syringe rigmarole.
By the way, use a small spray container... like a 15ml Afrin brand nasal spray. That's what I often use. Although i also purchase glass spray bottles for making more professional looking solutions.
 
Title: Re: Safest way to work with pure fentanyl powder
Post by: LaMarisa on March 17, 2013, 12:14 am
I agree with sirius, and I also think 1mg/ml is too high for IV use even with a tolerance.  Even if you're only shooting 0.1ml at a time (10 units on a U100 syringe), that's still 100mcg, which for IV is high: at the hospital the IV fent solutions they use are 50mcg per ml and my understanding is even with that they do a slow push.  Also they will never do IV fent even at home with a nurse...it's done ONLY at a hospital with a crash cart nearby.  Fent is known as being very unpredictable, even in people with high opiate tolerances. 

Based on how good it feels using the spray and how fast your tolerance increases when you're chasing the high (mine can double or triple over a 6-8hour period if I'm spraying myself constantly), I understand that IVing can be tempting.  But after all the research and warnings I've read and heard about it I just don't feel it can be done safely.  If I'm going to IV I'll do something safer like heroin or another opiate.

I'm starting to wonder how the tolerance/halflife/withdrawal thing works with fent spray.  I keep reading different things...for example we all know the high wears off REALLY fast, and the half life of IV fent is something like 1-2 hours.  But the halflife of the patch is much higher since it gets stored in fat cells.  Does this mean that if you're doing something like insufflating spray or chewing patches that it stays in your system long after the effects wear off? 

I've previously thought that if I went on a 3-4 day bender of almost constant dosing, consuming a total of like 20mg a day, and then felt fine like 24 hours after my last dose (replacing the fent I was taking with a slight increase in my typical oral methadone/morphine cocktail that I take every day), then I'll be ok...but now I'm worried that I might be fucking myself and that true withdrawal might start days after the actual effects/high are long gone, because that's how long it takes for the fent to be drawn out of my system fully. 

Any ideas? 
Title: Re: Safest way to work with pure fentanyl powder
Post by: sirius on March 17, 2013, 01:10 am
I think that the half life on fentanyl is really short, like 5-7 hours.. I find that I can dose pretty heavy one night out of three and I wont get to tolerant. The tolerance curve on fent is so fast and responsive that it doesn't really sneak up on me, I just notice that I should back off for a couple extra days because that last few double doses I took felt faint.
I do know that if you are on a daily opiate regimen you should be wary. The fent overlayed over your other gear can indeed push you up against a glass ceiling pretty quickly with binge behavior. That is a nightmare I hear because no amount of anything can overcome that ultimate withdrawl... Of course thats just what I hear.
Honestly, 20mg a day for 3 days... I would give it another day or two to be safe, three might be cutting it a bit close.. It takes about 3 days just to flush 20mg out of your system.
Title: Re: Safest way to work with pure fentanyl powder
Post by: grdr on March 18, 2013, 09:03 pm
I agree with sirius, and I also think 1mg/ml is too high for IV use even with a tolerance.  Even if you're only shooting 0.1ml at a time (10 units on a U100 syringe), that's still 100mcg, which for IV is high: at the hospital the IV fent solutions they use are 50mcg per ml and my understanding is even with that they do a slow push.  Also they will never do IV fent even at home with a nurse...it's done ONLY at a hospital with a crash cart nearby.  Fent is known as being very unpredictable, even in people with high opiate tolerances. 

Based on how good it feels using the spray and how fast your tolerance increases when you're chasing the high (mine can double or triple over a 6-8hour period if I'm spraying myself constantly), I understand that IVing can be tempting.  But after all the research and warnings I've read and heard about it I just don't feel it can be done safely.  If I'm going to IV I'll do something safer like heroin or another opiate.

I'm starting to wonder how the tolerance/halflife/withdrawal thing works with fent spray.  I keep reading different things...for example we all know the high wears off REALLY fast, and the half life of IV fent is something like 1-2 hours.  But the halflife of the patch is much higher since it gets stored in fat cells.  Does this mean that if you're doing something like insufflating spray or chewing patches that it stays in your system long after the effects wear off? 

I've previously thought that if I went on a 3-4 day bender of almost constant dosing, consuming a total of like 20mg a day, and then felt fine like 24 hours after my last dose (replacing the fent I was taking with a slight increase in my typical oral methadone/morphine cocktail that I take every day), then I'll be ok...but now I'm worried that I might be fucking myself and that true withdrawal might start days after the actual effects/high are long gone, because that's how long it takes for the fent to be drawn out of my system fully. 

Any ideas?

actually it's 50 mcg since insulin syringes are half ml and 100 mcg would be  low-average even for first time opiod user