Silk Road forums
Discussion => Silk Road discussion => Topic started by: fingertothefbi on March 28, 2013, 05:00 am
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Ok so first off no I'm not under age.
But I know a lot of people, friends with lil bros ect so as far as interested people Ive got ages 15-25
So how young is too young? Also should I give molly to a younger person because if I don't they will most likely get some e-pills laced with meth and caffeine that seem to make their way around these parts :( quite a paradox
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To be honest who cares if who you give it to. Give it to them let them taht get fucked up.. I once bougjht A 12 year beer.
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No I don't want to hurt anyone but I want to spread the beauty, pissing in ones community is never smart :( I dont fuck with alcohol or cigarettes or anything addictive because i don't believe in it
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I think that for the most part, any drug, legal or not, pharmaceutical or not, taken during the heights of development is generally going to affect a person negatively somehow. Rare occasions wouldn't have much of an effect, but habitual use surely would.
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I started using pot and ecstasy when i was 16 and used a ton in a short period of time and it fucked my brain up a bit. So i think that was too young, I think it was the x. So i agree when the brain is still developing it's not ideal. But abstanance never works, so i think pot can be good first drug that youngsters will enjoy and help reduce the need to try harder drugs. And if someone young is going to do it anyway, better to do it with someone who cares for them than with other random dumbshits.
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When I read the first sentence of this post I really thought the conversation was going another direction... glad I was wrong!
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I think people shouldn't start taking drugs until at least early to mid-twenties. But everyone is different and some may mature faster than others.
I really wish I didn't start smoking weed when I was 14, but wanting to fit in with so-called 'friends' at the time seemed more important than my future life. I imagine it is no different now.
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I personally think, taking drugs whilst the brain is still developing is probably not the best thing to do.
Whatever age that may be.
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My views are well known to anybody who has read my posts on this topic - Drugs are NOT for kids. 'Drugs' and 'kids' don't even belong in the same sentence. Let kids be kids without any artificial joy There will be plenty of time later in life to experiment.
These are the kinds of questions that should be obvious to a responsible drug using community. ... and yes, freedom without responsibility is pretty much anarchy and chaos. Sorry to sound like your high school councilor but I believe that we here at the SR forums can be a positive 'face' for drug users worldwide.
So to give a direct answer to the question - how old is old enough? I would say at least 16 for weed, 18 for psychedelics. That's my opinion.
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Too young is when you cant get the tip in, just slip down to the next hole and go from there.
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When I read the first sentence of this post I really thought the conversation was going another direction... glad I was wrong!
Haha I didn't realize how it sounded
And thanks for all the feedback guys I'm going to work on phasing out atleast MDMA for younger people, I personally never touched anything till I was 19 and I was glad I waited, it was a good age cause i was really searching for meaning and my first two things where my own grown mushrooms and then san pedro cactus :)
Where I am we have a drug problem though- alcohol pills(like percs and zannys) cigs and dirty e are all common place so part of the reason I do what I do is I'm trying create a shift, so I guess for the people who are 16 that have never used i will tell them to wait a year or two but for the ones that have used already I'll attempt to steer them in the right direction
Personally I think seniors in highschool should take some pychs if they are searching for what they want to do in there lives because when i was there age(17-18) i had no direction and I wanted to do mushrooms and introspect but had no connects due to the fact that i was straight edge lol
Also anyone know when at what age Natives would take mushrooms or cactus? I think it was when they would transition from child to adult but I really dont know
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'Drugs' and 'kids' don't even belong in the same sentence.
Drugs are NOT for kids.
What just happened there? ;D
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imo 13 is too young,because as others have stated about the developing mind. About this same topic Ram Dass once told me "You should become somebody, before you try to become nobody". Hindsight being what it is i would have prefered to wait but it is what it is. Did starting at an early age contribute to a lifetime of addiction and alcohol issues, who knows? It took me the better part of 30 years to finally realize what drugs i could and could not do without endangering my existence. For the last many years i only ingest marijuana,L, fungus, occasional spiritual use of DMT, and sparingly mdma every few months. i avoid pharmies and alcohol like the plaque, powders are very very bad for me, i was fortunate to have missed the start of the research chem phase and i have no desire to experience the 2-c family. i had friends that did not do anything in school, they waited until they were in their 20's to start the party, some of them have had their lives fucked by substances also, some have taken others lives in auto accidents while fucked up on booze, so you tell me, How young is too young?
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Yea 13 is definitely too young lots of 13year old's do drink around here every so often its sad really, I really dislike alcohol- it destroyed my family, lost friends because of the alcohol party life style and when I see what it does to natives it assures me that its something I don't want to touch.
I think I'm going to try my best to have a 17 and up rule, any 15 or 16year old I will only sell too if they've already done drugs I know some kids that did speed when they were like 12 so I'll give them shrooms in hope that they don't do speed or coke instead because a few of them have connects on that side but no pychadelic connect so I guess I'll be the guy, I try my best when I talk to them telling them to stay away from that shit and to stick too weed and psychs every-once in a while anytime I talk to anyone about molly I say once a month tops or do it a few times and then don't touch it for a few months.
I think society is really fucked up I just want to do my best to fix it
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I didn't do any drugs until i was 15, I was definatley immature.
In a way it depends on the person, and who they hang round with.
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The rules and strict security controls I use as a vendor are also meant to discourage the young and dumb (<18) on SR from clicking around and getting oxy to their door. I only wish to deal with mature individuals that understand what they are ordering (and who often have a need for it).
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Yea 13 is definitely too young lots of 13year old's do drink around here every so often its sad really, I really dislike alcohol- it destroyed my family, lost friends because of the alcohol party life style and when I see what it does to natives it assures me that its something I don't want to touch.
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I think society is really fucked up I just want to do my best to fix it
I think this is an admirable attitude to have when dealing. I would hope that more dealers would have some kind of a code of ethics. +1 to you sir for at least having a conscience about this stuff.
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I started smoking weed and drinking at the end of eight grade with my brother, Now that I look back I started smoking when I was way to young lol I think because of doing it so young I really got invested in drugs and now Im here haha
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Wow, reading this thread makes me kinda glad but made me realize the same...
I started drinking at 14, smoking at 15 and yea, def too young and immature. Im 22 now and I dont even drink any kind of alcoholic beverage since I would get so shit faced when I was a feshman/sophomore in HS.
Then I started dating a piece of shit scumbag, and of course because I "loved" him I decided to follow him down the shitty road of disgusting drugs, we experimented w/ pills, percs, morphine, then cocaine, then oxy's and when that got too expensive... heroin... YUCK. I never enjoyed the high of these drugs but i did them because I didnt want to feel left out. Luckily I decided to go to a school similar to MIT and somehow I came up with the courage to dump him before starting college.
It wasnt until 2 months before I turned 21 that I tried Molly, shrooms and acid for the first time (all in one shot =) ) Had the best trippy trip of my life and I love psychedelics and molly, but of course, through moderation only!!
I think I enjoy LSD sooo much because when I trip, I literally feel like I am 3 years old again.
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I started smoking weed and drinking at the end of eight grade with my brother, Now that I look back I started smoking when I was way to young lol I think because of doing it so young I really got invested in drugs and now Im here haha
Yeah, I wish I would have started later. On the other hand, not sure I could enjoy it as care free as I did when I was a kid.
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Medically speaking, brain formation isn't mature until mid 20s. Studies have shown use in general can effect teens more and cause problems later on. Legally speaking, there may be greater penalties for selling to minors in your area.
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educate yourself first before you plunge into anything serious. read casteneda, Pihkal and Tihkal. kerouac, ginsberg, lewis carrol, kahlil gibran and trainspotting. wander erowid and the road. and when you feel it in yourself, and your mindset and physical setting are in the right place, take the plunge and never look back.
i reccomend good quality LSD for your first trip. 100-150ug. and make sure its from an avengers approved vendor.
feel the light and love along your journey
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how young is too young? well u know what they say,,,, OLD ENOUGH TO WEED OLD ENOUGH TO SEED
LLSR
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how young is too young? well u know what they say,,,, OLD ENOUGH TO WEED OLD ENOUGH TO SEED
LLSR
^^^ yeeeeeaaaaah. This is what happens when kids do drugs and age. They seem to remain in that same 'headzone'. This is the height of comedy. A sexual innuendo. Ha .. ha .. ha.
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I smoked weed that was stolen from my aunt and uncle when I was twelve and not again until almost 18. That had a lot to do with where I grew up though and access to drugs. I was 19 when I saw a 10 year old with a tear drop tattoo freebase coke at a party, same one I got a gun pulled on me for looking at the wrong "gangsta". I have met people from every walk of life that have commited horrible acts that whether mistakes or not ended in people dying underage. I know a kid and his cousin who were inhaling ether on the interstate and of course driver blacked out and died while the person I met in college had lived. Life is crazy and there is NOTHING in the world that is for sure.
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Medically speaking, brain formation isn't mature until mid 20s. Studies have shown use in general can effect teens more and cause problems later on. Legally speaking, there may be greater penalties for selling to minors in your area.
Seconded, this is what is currently understood to be correct, and I believe it to be true. Due to circumstances, I was quite late to the party, mid-20s or so, but more than made up for what I had missed. Never any negative issues, and now a few decades down the line.
My younger brother and his friends all got going in their early teens, and not nearly so happy or robust now.
Even aside from the brain chemistry, for most people, it's how you perform in your teens that load the dice that decide the rest of your life. This isn't necessarily right, but it's how things generally are. I feel I was lucky to get the drudgery out of the way, and start making my way in the world, before all the sparkly wide-eyed temptresses got their wicked way with me ;)
+1 to the OP for his commendable attitude.
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Forgot to add, that just because the drugs come in a blister pack from your doctor, that doesn't make it any less dangerous.
It's a rational response to a maladjusted environment for kids to become bored/depressed/hyperactive etc. The environment needs to be fixed, not the child.
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I agree with what most people are saying about early 20's. I was actually thinking about this today. Since you have people that are 15 right now, I'd like to pass on what I came up with. I don't think you should give them drugs, but talk to them. Tell them WHY you don't want them doing drugs at that age because you love them. People are stupid, and can be especially so when teenagers. As others are saying they can absolutely affect the development of the brain. Life is fairly long, and the decisions you make at any point can and very often will effect the course of your life. The vast majority of jobs out there will not hire people with a hairy past. This is society. So it is very hard to move from the under side of society to the top once anything hits paper. This includes a LOT of jobs that all sorts of people would enjoy, and also make lots of money at that are now off the table. No going back in most cases for at least a number of years. But guess what, going the other way is easy. You can go to college, become a physicist, and drop off at literally any point you want.
With that said I started in my mid-teens and it did majorly affect my life. Personally I would not change it. With drive you can accomplish many things. The thing is, I was a very care-free person in my teens and I don't think I will ever be at that point again, I love my life too much to do the stupid shit that luckily all turned out great.
If you arm them with the information you feel is needed, I think it is the best you can do. From there on out it is really up to them.
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I feel like they're too young if they don't bring up the conversation of any particular drug in question. If they bring up the conversation depending on how interested they sound and how much passion they show for it they may be mentally ready, but at the same time I'd also consider brain development and all. Honestly I can't answer that question but I know I wouldn't offer anyone around me under 21 psychedelics unless they're already messing with them.
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Yea 13 is definitely too young lots of 13year old's do drink around here every so often its sad really, I really dislike alcohol- it destroyed my family, lost friends because of the alcohol party life style and when I see what it does to natives it assures me that its something I don't want to touch.
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I think society is really fucked up I just want to do my best to fix it
I think this is an admirable attitude to have when dealing. I would hope that more dealers would have some kind of a code of ethics. +1 to you sir for at least having a conscience about this stuff.
Thanks man, and thanks to the other dude for the plus one, and everyone for there insight :)
I'm kind of a compassionate drug dealer, I don't want to hurt anyone. I see all the pain around me and all the struggle and at times it fills me with sadness but my ambition and love for life keeps me going. I simply want to help people find there purpose in life and get healthy, for me shrooms lsd and san pedro along with research chems and molly have all helped me get direction in my life and see the beauty(molly). Almost everything I do is usually for self in-betterment(yea i have fun too) I think life is all about balance and right now there's too much party and not enough introspection so when ever I have the opportunity to speak to a fellow drug user(or anyone) I try to bring the conversation in that direction.
Its funny how sometimes you ask other people a question and you find out its really inside you all along :)
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Really not trying to piss anyone off here, especially the OP. But, for you to even have to ask if it is ok to sell MDMA to KIDS tells me that you have one fucked up set of morals. I found my dope when I was in HS by my other HS buddies. Let the kiddos find their own way to addiction or enlightenment. I feel that if an adult is selling to kids, then they are interested in nothing more than money and moving product. You say you want to just make sure they get pure dope, I get that. But, think about this... when you dry up or get tired of dealing with it, the kids are now addicted and will go ANYWHERE to score. Not to mention, there is not many teenagers who will take the fall without snitching you out (even though it would probably just be juvi time). In short... I don't want blood on my hands.
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I think there IS an age limit. PPl are just not experienced enough for some drugs under a certain age.
Usually the first explorations happen in high school so I think it should be something like :
weed: 14+
uppers:15+
trippin: 17+
downers: 20+
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Really not trying to piss anyone off here, especially the OP. But, for you to even have to ask if it is ok to sell MDMA to KIDS tells me that you have one fucked up set of morals. I found my dope when I was in HS by my other HS buddies. Let the kiddos find their own way to addiction or enlightenment. I feel that if an adult is selling to kids, then they are interested in nothing more than money and moving product. You say you want to just make sure they get pure dope, I get that. But, think about this... when you dry up or get tired of dealing with it, the kids are now addicted and will go ANYWHERE to score. Not to mention, there is not many teenagers who will take the fall without snitching you out (even though it would probably just be juvi time). In short... I don't want blood on my hands.
yea well anyone under 17 I won't sell too unless theyve already done it, I cross sell shrooms instead when possible and I'm phasing out the few younger guys when ever possible I'm down to one person of the age at 16 everyone else is 17-18(but more of pychdelic users) then molly people are pretty much 18-20+ im playing it well, im not in it for money because that younger demographic isnt even 10% of my market.
As a side note it also depend on where you live kids out in the farmlands might grow up alot slower like I said before here by 7-8thgrade alot of kids drink and a decent amount smoke ciggarettes sad reality we live in.
Also that last younger kid i sell to is the one that did speed at like age 12 so I'm trying to help him as much as i can but in a few months I'm going to phase him out as well hopefully i can get him on a good path though
Lastly I created this thread for more of a health perspective, if it was up to me no one would touch anything till atleast 18 but sadly it is not. And I'm not selling to "kids" everyone is in highschool and they find me through mutual friends I.E. they got older friends that know me but none the less the younger market will be phased out and i will try to instill reason in them before i do so(telling them to stick to pychs and weed if their not willing to entertain the sober life)
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I had my first major mushroom trip on my 18th birthday after finding a cow field full of liberty caps near the beach at the Oregon border
many years later, I woke up in a back alley on Silk Road with a mangy rag doll with one leg missing.. see sig for more info
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in started using in my mid teens and i started with EVERYTHING at once, it was bad
problems with my family, friends, job,school
it all took control of me (that was back when i wasnt on SR)
id say 20 is a safe 'rule of thumb age, but lets be honest noone is gonna wanna wait til 20
let kids experiment with beer weed and cigs they'll grow up and get into Dels stims and other stuff
when theyre ready.
i think everyone needs to trip at least once in their life haha
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I guess that's a little different than I originally took this. Honestly dude the fact that you are vetting your customers based on what's best for them and not you puts you pretty high on the list of respectable dealers. I would never fuck with high school kids first because it seems like the best way to get caught up in some shit quick. Then would come the moral questions. After me. Anyway sounds like you've made some tough calls and good decisions in the end. Right the fuck on. To the guy talking about having a fucked up set of morals I don't think it is that simple at all. I'm not sure where he thinks his high school buddies got their drugs from, at some point someone is selling to kids. Not sure how old you are but I would assume not much older. Anyway the line is blurred.
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When the OP put things into a bit more of a perspective, it was a bit more viable. I am seeing it from where I grew up. We were smoking weed and drinking before HS. Once HS came around people started stepping it up. Selling car parts for meth, pills, or smoking crack on the way to fucking class. I was smart enough to stick to things that didn't grab you by the balls and yank. Sadly enough, I had one friend pass from OD and a few others in BAD car wrecks that landed them in ICU, due to intoxication and being young/dumb. Point being, we all started with the items you listed in question. Maybe I just took this a bit too personal... To each his own, we all have to eat.
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Thanks for the understanding, I have one troubled kid I'm going to try to reach out to him before I cut him off hes too into pills and getting fucked up so now me selling to him isnt going to help(ie hes going to do pills even if he can get pychs from me) him, looks like hes going down "the path" I'll try to reason with him but were not too close so not sure it will workout. Overall Ive been loving the rest of the people I sell too good convos and vibes even though I'm not great friends with all of them, also love hearing "your shrooms/acid changed my life man" I tell everyone to stay away from the addictive stuff and they understand, I'm a healthy influence to everyone who's willing to listen, and those who aren't i do my best and then whatever happens from there happens.
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I think there IS an age limit. PPl are just not experienced enough for some drugs under a certain age.
Usually the first explorations happen in high school so I think it should be something like :
weed: 14+
uppers:15+
trippin: 17+
downers: 20+
I'm on the other side of the fence from all the "I did it too early" people, in that I was hilariously straight when I was young - stuff was everywhere - I'd go to parties where weed/speed/psychs could be had and just ignore all of it. And I think I would have appreciated some of this earlier, a little closer to the age rank above. I was a philosophical, level-headed kid, and tripping would have been right up my alley. So for me I say something a little more like:
tripping: 15+
weed: 16+
uppers: 17+
downers: 21+
but YMMV. This, in hindsight, is the course I'd have taken for myself, knowing what I know now, not a prescription for anyone else.
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Well, like you said man, if your friend is going to do pills, then he will. Some just have to find out the hard way and sometimes that is their final lesson, sadly enough. I watched a friend walk down that road and I with him for a while, until he started poking around on his arm (no offense to anyone intended), before long he was in prison. I go to where I could take snort an oxy 80 at once and had to just step back, take a look, and find another path.
I feel there are many things that contribute to this pain pill epidemic. Some elderly HAVE to sell off the pills in order to pay for their lights and food, DR's throw them out like candy for kickbacks from the pharm companies, and careless parenting as well goes into that mix. Hell, if youth today knew how fun the safer things are and can be, I don't think this would be such an issue. It really has amazed me as to how the pharm companies have made pills for people to get off of pills, that are just as addictive. Hats off to you man, I cannot say I agree with the molly use at a young age, just because as young people tend to be careless and that could get nasty. But, do all you can to keep him away from the needle.
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I (moo) think it should be 18 as your brain and body are still developing, esp the brain! Doesn't stop until your about 24/25 years old, your body stops at about 18/20 for females and 21/22 for males! Obviously it won't and can't stop anyone if they want to take anything. I was 21 when I started in the drug scene. Not because I wasnt around them but because there isn't enough non-bias education on drugs! Which I believe we need more of!
D believes it should be 16yrs old as he started when he was 14, as it was such a taboo and exciting to him. If you lower the age of consumption then in theory the 'taboo' isn't there anymore so its less exciting.
This is for drugs and for alcohol as they are both DRUGS! Despite what some may say..... -_-
We both believe there should be a reform on drugs! There should be a public vote and it should be regulated, taxed, have licenses to grow in your own home up to 6/8 plants, you cant sell it but you can give it to people for free, come from proper dispensaries etc etc :) obviously this wont stop people trying to sell it but they probably wont be making much profit.
Woop! Follow Clears campaign!
www.clear-uk.org/
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I am a very firm believer in that if someone didn't have to go to a "dealer" in order to get a bag of weed, harder drugs such as meth would not be introduced. Some people have NO moral issue with getting a youngster hooked on something that could potentially bring them hundreds or thousands of dollars in from teenagers and others that are hooked. From there we lead into crime rates increasing (robberies/killing). Not to put the SR down in any means, because this place is meant for and should only be used by adults who have chosen their paths in life and KNOW the repercussions of the "hardcore" drugs. But, let's be honest here... I am sure there are many out there that got their hands on things via SR that they would have been better off never coming in contact with. Then, on the other hand, SR has been a godsend for some who are trying to come off of the hard shit and get to a comfortable "recreational" use level.
From those reading this thread. Do you think that if psychedelics and weed were legalized and manufactured in a "controlled environment", and by that I mean regulated by authority figures (not factories taking away the vendors jobs), then made available to the mass public controlling distribution by prescription and age limits... would this cut down on hardcore drug usage? Would this satisfy the urge to "explore" the drug world? Especially when they can look around and see the ill effects of the still very illegal drugs. I mean, I don't think giving an 18 yr old LSD legally would be a smart thing, but something along these lines I feel would be maybe an answer.
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I am a very firm believer in that if someone didn't have to go to a "dealer" in order to get a bag of weed, harder drugs such as meth would not be introduced. Some people have NO moral issue with getting a youngster hooked on something that could potentially bring them hundreds or thousands of dollars in from teenagers and others that are hooked. From there we lead into crime rates increasing (robberies/killing). Not to put the SR down in any means, because this place is meant for and should only be used by adults who have chosen their paths in life and KNOW the repercussions of the "hardcore" drugs. But, let's be honest here... I am sure there are many out there that got their hands on things via SR that they would have been better off never coming in contact with. Then, on the other hand, SR has been a godsend for some who are trying to come off of the hard shit and get to a comfortable "recreational" use level.
From those reading this thread. Do you think that if psychedelics and weed were legalized and manufactured in a "controlled environment", and by that I mean regulated by authority figures (not factories taking away the vendors jobs), then made available to the mass public controlling distribution by prescription and age limits... would this cut down on hardcore drug usage? Would this satisfy the urge to "explore" the drug world? Especially when they can look around and see the ill effects of the still very illegal drugs. I mean, I don't think giving an 18 yr old LSD legally would be a smart thing, but something along these lines I feel would be maybe an answer.
1+ to you
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Remember the Psychedelic revolution of the 60's primarily consisted of college age students.....
I personally started with weed at 16..and tried LSD @ 17 over 30 years ago... the biggest thing with the LSD was that no one told me what it would do or the type of setting I needed.
I caught my son smoking weed @ 14 and although I didn't want him to do it and told him so, I feel like a hypocrite telling him to stop.
I feel like everything is starting at a younger age...
BTW he also got laid @ 14.... I was 17 the first time.
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To incogmagnito: I honestly do not think that there will ever come a time when the "hardcore" drugs will just quit being used. But, I do think statistics of adults who end up using them because of a bad childhood that lead them there, would change. The scarcity of many of the "good", mind opening, or relaxing drugs has become more and more prevalent due to this "war on drugs". In turn this did nothing but make people get their hands on the next most available thing... prescription drugs. Which is making certain people money, so there is no issue with that (in their eyes and bank accounts). I agree 100% about the cigarette and alcohol comment. I honestly feel like those 2 drugs alone have cost me more money and adverse body reactions (not so much booze, I learned quick that isn't really fun for me) than any other drug I have had contact with. I have tried ALMOST everything and will stand by those 2 being fucking horrible. You should have to go to the SR to buy a substance that will make you so impaired you cannot think clear enough to operate a vehicle or even walk, or something that WILL GIVE YOU CANCER. But, then no ones pockets would be getting fatter that can control what is legal and what is not.
To polyphemusperception: Being a parent is about teaching your children from YOUR mistakes. You shouldn't feel like a hypocrite, you should feel more like a saint. Get his ass through high school (if he isn't already) and then let him do as he wishes. I honestly wish I had someone who gave a shit enough about me growing up to stop me from starting things like that too early. It wrecked my grades and put a very big damper on my future, at least slowed me down some. Smoking weed and drinking shouldn't be facilitated by a parent (not saying you are). But, you having that experience, can be empathetic and more insightful than you think to him when you do catch him. As far as the sex goes, well boys and girls both start hot in the pants around the same ages. I think that just boils down to a body chemistry. ;) Have a good day fellas!
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Personally I would say wait until at least 18 until you do any drugs but of course this isn't practical advice. I would say cannabis is relatively fine to start (it doesn't decline intelligence but it can have effects on your social life when you're young especially if your immediate group of friends don't smoke often). Rare use of alcohol is fine from 16 because it generally is a social (and legal) drug. Here in Europe 16 is the age to drink and most fun occasions for me were had drinking in the pub or at concerts. Smoking weed while doing this is fine if you can handle it.
I would think that mushrooms are ok for 16 and higher but I can't speak from experience. I began researching psychedelics when I was 16 but I only began experimenting with mushies when I was 21. No particular reason for this really. I would say harder psychedelics are best to use when you're 21+ (there is the risk of developing HPPD which wouldn't be good when you're young and unwise).
MDMA should definitely not be used until your brain develops, I began at 21. It definitely does decline intelligence. This has been proven scientifically but I can also say that I've met people who started around 16 and they generally (not always) do not go to 3rd level education and have very bad attention span. You just shouldn't be doing md or stimulants at a young age when you are healthy and well able to get a thrill other ways.
I'm definitely a realist when it comes to drugs. Doing drugs are great but try to put off doing them until that precise brain develops. After 25 (your intellectual peak) is the ideal time but not practical. the choice is yours to make o be sure to research anything you put in your body (this goes for diet too etc.)
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I started smoking weed at 14, but even I generally think kids should stay away from any kind of drug and just stick to the medicine syrups they chug when feeling ill.
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I say lets make all of this legal and see - it does not strike me that Netherlands went down the drain by having many a substance legal. Why can't it work on wider scale?
It can work on a wider scale, there are just secondary factors to freedom and safety that are given more priority, such as jobs, profits of billionaires, brain-washed public opinion, and those ignorantly (freuquently christians) riding the moral high-horse preventing legalization.
Netherland and Portugal are excellent examples of this. Netherlands has lower cannabis usage rates than all surrounding countries and the US. Portugal's statistics are even more staggering: a reduction is use for every single illicit drug since decriminalization, and they have cut the rate of HIV in half in less than 10 years. The usage of drugs amongst teens, especially heroin, is way down. In fact, there are near zero new drug addicts being made in Portugal now, the average age of those in addiction treatment is growing each year.
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must always be careful, watch for mental maturity.
Do not believe in "gateway" drug either.
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The only "gateway" is called depression. Weed is what someone feels safest with to escape, then that only takes the pain and thoughts away for so long, they look for other means to escape. Been there, done that, then visited the doctor. I just wonder how many fucking hypocritical politicians toked up tonight??
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@DMTisinMe, thank you for this info - data on Portugal was not something I have heard before. Is there any clearnet resource that you could point me to? I know few people that should see this if it is in public domain.
Glad not to be alone in my rejection of "gateway" concept. Mental maturity is indeed the right way of looking at it, but how would one define it ... or measure it?
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Measuring it would be difficult. I could imagine up a clinical field specifically for doing so. (You want to "try" marijuana? Well lets sit and talk about the effects that this substance will and could have on your mind and body. Then lets talk about WHY you want to venture into using this drug recreationally. Also, I will need to see you regularly every few months just to check up on you and your mental state.) I could see this as being possibly a way to go about it with any substance that is relatively safe for recreational use. Not that I feel we all need to be "checked up on" to make sure we aren't abusing and such, but hell if they are going to legally let me use lsd or mushrooms and only request a short sit down chat with me every so often to make sure I haven't went off the damn deep end, well I would agree to that. We are all human, and recreational use can turn into a substance abuse problem quicker than we realize. Just a thought for some of you to chew on. :P
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I started smoking weed and taking mushrooms at 15, then at 18 tried most drugs kids do.
If I tell people this they are quite shocked because 15 is young and mushrooms are a powerful psychedelic.
I think under 18 is too young for anything other than maybe a few buns of cheeba.
Now im an adult I cant stand seeing young teens whacked out on newfangled drugs like drone like you do at raves.
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I would never give drugs to someone under 18 years of age because the legal consequences are much much much more severe. If I were still under 18 myself I would give people drugs, people my own age at least, because I did do them then. For me it was weed at 14, mushrooms and ketamine at 15, acid and mdma at 17 sort of, but most of my drug use, somewhat characteristic of what I do today began when I was 18 in university.
The thought of giving weed to a 14 year old disgusts me now, even though in my experience it really was a suitable age to smoke it. The thought of even smoking weed at all disgusts me now though as I have completely outgrown a five year long daily habit. Most of my friends who started smoking weed heavily at 16-18 still smoke it everyday and have not outgrown it yet as I have. I think starting as young as I did was a good thing. And then again everyone is different, some people start smoking when they are 10 and some people start shooting drugs in grade 9 and shit. The high school years were extremely painful and I often wanted to kill myself and doing drugs was a way to pass the time for me and break the cycle bleak monotony, and knowing what I know now about drugs I wish I had been able to get certain ones which I didn't even really know about back then, but honestly I think I would be much worse off for it now than I am if I had been doing speed and opiates in high school. Then again maybe not.
Either way, if kids want to get drugs, good on em but they ain't getting any drugs from me ever. There are other ways and kids are resourceful enough to find drugs without my help. Their best bet is to buy them from other kids really.
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@DMTisinMe, thank you for this info - data on Portugal was not something I have heard before. Is there any clearnet resource that you could point me to? I know few people that should see this if it is in public domain.
http://www.economist.com/node/14309861
But also I'd really recommend checking out the documentary "Breaking the Taboo" on drug legalization. It was incredibly well constructed and argued. Also, if you are interested I authored a rather lengthy letter to the president regarding the war on drugs, and would be happy to PM you it, since our paths have crossed enough to gain my trust. Just PM me with your encryption key if you're interested.
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@DMTisinMe, thank you for this info - data on Portugal was not something I have heard before. Is there any clearnet resource that you could point me to? I know few people that should see this if it is in public domain.
http://www.economist.com/node/14309861
But also I'd really recommend checking out the documentary "Breaking the Taboo" on drug legalization. It was incredibly well constructed and argued. Also, if you are interested I authored a rather lengthy letter to the president regarding the war on drugs, and would be happy to PM you it, since our paths have crossed enough to gain my trust. Just PM me with your encryption key if you're interested.
Thank you - great article, indeed. And the best thing about this approach is that it makes sense on a simple level of common sense. It is sooo good to know that people able to think a bit can get into power. Shame that they did not seem to think with the same clarity about their economic policies. Sadly, state of Portugal's economy probably does impact credibility of this decision too.
Check you messages - PM is there.
on a subject of when is it the right time, to which I have dedicated some travel time to, I have to add the following - the reason for my taking LSD for the first time in my life was a realisation that my ego, rationality and firm belief that reality is independent of our perception has started to affect me negatively - lack of flexibility, necessity to be right, constant drive to discover simple causality, etc. My ego felt like an almost completely rigid fusion between my I and that external reality. Ego-death experienced in my trip opened my eyes to the fact that realities are aplenty and there is no such thing as an independent observer or subject and object of observation and ultimately to a strange feeling of understanding that reality as I used to think of it is nothing but a figment of my imagination. Now, this is pretty useful thing for someone who needs to work on flexibility and stretching one's rigid ways of thinking. Exposing someone whose relationship with this reality is rather uncertain might lead to some severe adaptation issues and while this can turn them into supreme inter-stellar beings their ability to function normally among the average population would be severely affected. If this is not desired we do need to think of the best way to define this mental maturity and measure it somehow, so that one does not screw it up by an untimely ego-death and discovery that the world outside is nothing but their own dream :)
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on a subject of when is it the right time, to which I have dedicated some travel time to, I have to add the following - the reason for my taking LSD for the first time in my life was a realisation that my ego, rationality and firm belief that reality is independent of our perception has started to affect me negatively - lack of flexibility, necessity to be right, constant drive to discover simple causality, etc. My ego felt like an almost completely rigid fusion between my I and that external reality. Ego-death experienced in my trip opened my eyes to the fact that realities are aplenty and there is no such thing as an independent observer or subject and object of observation and ultimately to a strange feeling of understanding that reality as I used to think of it is nothing but a figment of my imagination. Now, this is pretty useful thing for someone who needs to work on flexibility and stretching one's rigid ways of thinking. Exposing someone whose relationship with this reality is rather uncertain might lead to some severe adaptation issues and while this can turn them into supreme inter-stellar beings their ability to function normally among the average population would be severely affected. If this is not desired we do need to think of the best way to define this mental maturity and measure it somehow, so that one does not screw it up by an untimely ego-death and discovery that the world outside is nothing but their own dream :)
I can definitely relate. Taking LSD for the first time was absolutely liberating. I instantly stopped caring/paying attention to certain things, including pieces of my perception, and it made me function a lot more smoothly and peacefully. I agree with exactly what you're saying about someone who is "concrete" in reality vs. someone who is "uncertain." People have always told me I am the most sane person they have ever met, which I think is likely why I take the psychedelic experience oh so well. Compare this to a few people who have tripped with me who were/are mentally unstable, and it really brings it out. If you want to see if someone has a sound mind, give them a lot of psychedelics. If nothing surfaces, they are completely stable, and have learned something. If something does, they are unstable, and have likely learned nothing. Each time that happened I never gave provided the person with any drugs ever again, and strayed from their presence altogether (I usually didn't know them so well and that was why I couldn't tell if they were "right."
I don't mean to sound judgmental of a person at all, but I do firmly believe that those kinds of people should not use psychedelics. I can totally see how it can bring out schizophrenia and various mental problems.
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My views are well known to anybody who has read my posts on this topic - Drugs are NOT for kids. 'Drugs' and 'kids' don't even belong in the same sentence. Let kids be kids without any artificial joy There will be plenty of time later in life to experiment.
These are the kinds of questions that should be obvious to a responsible drug using community. ... and yes, freedom without responsibility is pretty much anarchy and chaos. Sorry to sound like your high school councilor but I believe that we here at the SR forums can be a positive 'face' for drug users worldwide.
So to give a direct answer to the question - how old is old enough? I would say at least 16 for weed, 18 for psychedelics. That's my opinion.
+1
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@DMTisinME, totally agree on mental stability point and in risks for this person to take psychedelics, BUT if you look at history of compounds creation you would see that Delysid was marketed by Sandoz as psychotomimetic substance and best uses of it were with severely affected by personality disorders people who were able to access/bring to analysable depth some of their personality forming events and dealt with them to reduce their latent impact on their well-being. But it takes dozens of sessions and seldomly gave positive result from one session. Every book by Stanislav Grof is a testament to that! He so much believes in a healing power of psychedelics that he has created a legal alternative to LSD - the holotropic breathwork. Why am I writing this? Oh yes, psychedelics can and should be used to help people with personality disorders and in some mild cases this can be even done without professional supervision, but for the sake of everyone's sanity do not attempt to do that with someone unsure, confused, young or simply trusting you. What would be best here is to get at least some more research done into this, so we all need to work on legalising agenda.
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life really is a dream bill hicks knew what he was talking about :) thanks for all the wonderful insight guys i feel we're all just different versions of each other, our different perspectives simply a result of our different life experiences
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@DMTisinME, totally agree on mental stability point and in risks for this person to take psychedelics, BUT if you look at history of compounds creation you would see that Delysid was marketed by Sandoz as psychotomimetic substance and best uses of it were with severely affected by personality disorders people who were able to access/bring to analysable depth some of their personality forming events and dealt with them to reduce their latent impact on their well-being. But it takes dozens of sessions and seldomly gave positive result from one session. Every book by Stanislav Grof is a testament to that! He so much believes in a healing power of psychedelics that he has created a legal alternative to LSD - the holotropic breathwork. Why am I writing this? Oh yes, psychedelics can and should be used to help people with personality disorders and in some mild cases this can be even done without professional supervision, but for the sake of everyone's sanity do not attempt to do that with someone unsure, confused, young or simply trusting you. What would be best here is to get at least some more research done into this, so we all need to work on legalising agenda.
Yes, LSD/psilocybin therapy can show to have tremendous results, but this is more geared towards those who have shown to possess long-standing "thought cycles" that are detrimental to their functioning. This is present in those who are terminally ill cancer patients, along with OCD, PTSD, drug addictions, and depression. Those who suffer from anxiety based problems could be cured for prolonged periods through this treatment. I would say that these problems are fundamentally different than those who strike someone who is mentally unstable in the way we described it is previous posts. As with any medication, certain with certain illnesses it will help, with others, it will do harm.