Silk Road forums

Discussion => Security => Topic started by: sildenafil on March 19, 2012, 08:26 pm

Title: What the SELLER´S GUIDE tells us about FINALIZING EARLY
Post by: sildenafil on March 19, 2012, 08:26 pm
"...Once you have completed 35 successful transactions and have been a seller for at least one month, you may ask your customers to finalize early without reprocussion...".

Maybe this helps a little bit to understand why it is not very probable that vendors scam customers.
The rules make sure that ONLY vendors are allowed to ask for FINALIZING EARLY which have build already a good reputation and have been a vendor for at least 1 month!
That also means that vendors with less than 35 successful transactions and or being a seller for less than  1 month are NOT ALLOWED to ask for it!

At least it is the buyers decision if he has trust into a vendor or not. ;)

But every buyer should be alarmed if a vendor violate against the above mentioned rule out of Silk Road´s "Seller´s Guide".
I ask all my new customers and customers outside of germany  to finalize early with NO PROBLEMS.
If you have any doubts in finanlizing early, please have a look into my given feedback and you will see NO ONE COMPLAINING :D

Greets JD
Title: Re: What the SELLER´S GUIDE tells us about FINALIZING EARLY
Post by: coptcha on March 19, 2012, 08:36 pm
Why do the sellers get advice with such a different tone as the buyers? The way the buyers' guide reads, FE is the stupidest thing we can do and we should all beat ourselves in the skull with a shovel for even considering it.

But with the sellers, they basically say "meh, spend a week or two building feedback and then go nuts. Nobody minds."

It just seems inconsistent.
Title: Re: What the SELLER´S GUIDE tells us about FINALIZING EARLY
Post by: sildenafil on March 19, 2012, 09:08 pm
@coptcha

Yes, you are totally right in what you are saying.
But you also give the answer yourself.

Because of this circumstances of misunderstanding the use of FINALIZATION EARLY
I posted this topic.
There are so many postings to this subject around this forum and also many
different recommendations that everyone has to understand that finalizing is
generally NO PROBLEM.
Silk Road will never express on early finalization in a bad way.
All bad expressions are coming from posting members which maybe have had
some problems with scamming vendors. But I do think that these members are
angry about themselves because they already finalized early to a vendor that
was maybe not allowed to ask for early finalization!
This in mind you have to consider what is the best for yourself.

THIS is what Silk Road WIKI tells us in the FAQ´s to this subject:
"Q. The the seller has instructed to "finalize early" for international orders. Is this safe for me to order?

A. Its not 'safe' per se, but if you read the feedback of others and see no problems, then use your judgement and decide of you think its going to be safe for you. It's not an uncommon practice, just be aware of the risk involved. "
 
Greets JD^^
Title: Re: What the SELLER´S GUIDE tells us about FINALIZING EARLY
Post by: coptcha on March 21, 2012, 06:23 pm
Yeah, the SR Wiki is nice, but that is usually something people find well after they find the main "welcome to SR" guide for buyers.

Buyers (newbies mainly, but really all of us) are told that our main anti-scam and anti-poison protections are the feedback system and the escrow system. A scammer with a few dozen friends and some time to kill can spoof the feedback system (once, then they would get banned, but they could manage to skim a heck of a lot of cash before that kicked in) but not the escrow system. Only the buyer or an admin can screw themself out of the escrow system.

I understand that sellers need FE a lot of time to build capital and get restocked faster, and FE for sellers with a long history is pretty safe, and for newbie buyers FE is a good way to protect sellers while establishing buyers as legit, but FE does remove all actual protections for buyers while increasing protection for sellers. It throws things out of balance.

If FE becomes a standard plan, then buyers need an additional form of protection. If you recall the FamilyForever fiasco, even some high-rated sellers go rogue.  It's a temptation that is always there; if you have enough orders out at once, and all the cash comes in due to FE, and you have some problems in your personal life ... well, dealers in real life fold up and start over all the time. So why not dealers on SR?

One suggestion would be that sellers have to put a small percentage of each transaction into sort of a permanent escrow until it gets to be a large enough amount that it covers, say, 25% of their outstanding orders. Then they could be listed as a "bonded vendor," and everyone would know that they could FE fairly safely because if a whole lot of people get scammed the seller would lose the bond. If the seller has a massive increase in sales, the bond amount would have to be slowly increased to maintain that 25%.

I understand the seller's point of view, but without solid protections for the buyers, this site won't last. Feedback alone isn't enough.
Title: Re: What the SELLER´S GUIDE tells us about FINALIZING EARLY
Post by: rake on March 22, 2012, 12:22 am
It's good practice to use escrow for the first transaction to a vendor who you have never used before.  A good vendor would understand this.  Perhaps buyers with 20 or more successful physical transactions should be exempt from FE rules.  It comes down to reputation and trust on both sides.
Title: Re: What the SELLER´S GUIDE tells us about FINALIZING EARLY
Post by: sildenafil on March 22, 2012, 09:47 am
Well, thanks for the replies^^
I found some really interesting arguments within them.

I know that there are many vendors on sr which makes a lot of
money. Of course THEY could pay into a bound.
For me it is not practicable as my profit on german pharmacy
products is very low.

I do not sell for 1000 US$ or even more a day.
Could be happy if I would sell for 50 US$ in a week.
Of course this depends on the offers I have online.
I am sure I would make a lot of more money with MDMA...

But there is one thing buyers have to think about, too:
Buyers can change their given feedback even long time after
they already gave feedback!
This is a very aggressive tool to show other customers if
you are not satisfied with something.

My highest listing had a price of 380US$.
Of course it would be terrible for a customer if lost but
there are many listings on sr which are above this and the
vendors want finalization for them.
A bound for high price articles would make sense to me.

Greets JD
Title: Re: What the SELLER´S GUIDE tells us about FINALIZING EARLY
Post by: Addy on March 22, 2012, 11:13 am
Is there a seller's guide hidden from anyone other than seller's? Could someone post or link to a copy of it? I'd like to see this information (somewhat) first hand.

From the Buyer's Guide:

Quote from: Buyer's Guide
NOTICE: If your seller instructs you to pay directly, outside of the escrow system, or with any other method than through the site checkout system, you should report it immediately to our support staff via the "contact us" link along with any evidence you can provide. If you do pay your seller directly, there will be no way for us to protect you from fraud.

...

NEVER go around the escrow and pay a vendor directly. We will be totally unable to protect you in this event and the vendor will have much less motivation to serve you well. People HAVE been scammed this way. If a seller requests that you pay them directly, please let us know so we can address the situation.
Finalizing early is paying outside the escrow system. The guide instructs buyers to go as far as contact SR if a seller ever asks for finalizing early. I think it's odd that in the Seller's Guide there would be some magic number where sellers may start asking for FE.
Title: Re: What the SELLER´S GUIDE tells us about FINALIZING EARLY
Post by: no_pain on March 22, 2012, 11:58 am
I dont care if I am asked to finalize early. Sometimes I just do it because I trust the vendor and see the coins drop too fast in value. Sometimes (especially if trying a new vendor) I will not FE and if the seller then dont want to make the deal, ok for me. It is his right to do so, the same right I have to choose whom I trust and with whom I will make buisness with.

Trust is imho the only thing we all have on an anon-net-transaction, there is nothing like gurantee or AGBs you can count on.
That is what makes sides like SoS so important.
Title: Re: What the SELLER´S GUIDE tells us about FINALIZING EARLY
Post by: sildenafil on March 23, 2012, 09:30 am
Is there a seller's guide hidden from anyone other than seller's? Could someone post or link to a copy of it? I'd like to see this information (somewhat) first hand.

From the Buyer's Guide:

Quote from: Buyer's Guide
NOTICE: If your seller instructs you to pay directly, outside of the escrow system, or with any other method than through the site checkout system, you should report it immediately to our support staff via the "contact us" link along with any evidence you can provide. If you do pay your seller directly, there will be no way for us to protect you from fraud.

...

NEVER go around the escrow and pay a vendor directly. We will be totally unable to protect you in this event and the vendor will have much less motivation to serve you well. People HAVE been scammed this way. If a seller requests that you pay them directly, please let us know so we can address the situation.
Finalizing early is paying outside the escrow system. The guide instructs buyers to go as far as contact SR if a seller ever asks for finalizing early. I think it's odd that in the Seller's Guide there would be some magic number where sellers may start asking for FE.

as i do not think that this guide is ONLY for seller, here you have the whole guide:

Seller's Guide

Client anonymity
You and you alone will have your client's shipping address. This information must be destroyed as soon as it is used to label their package. When you click "confirm shipment," the address will be deleted forever and irretrievable.

-Never ask your clients for personal information.
-Publish a Public encryption key in your user description under "settings" so they can send you their info encrypted if they wish.

Listing
Choose the category that most specifically matches your listing. Your listing will appear in this, and all parent categories above it. This will allow your customers to narrow down their search and find your item quickly.

If you think your item could belong in more than one category, choose the one that suits it best and let us know about the ambiguity. We may be able to reorganize the categories in a more clear way.

If your listing doesn't fit in any of the categories, it may be on our restricted items list. See below for details.

NOTICE: Do not create listings that instruct customers to pay outside of escrow, or are used for any purpose other than to list an item to be sold for the listed price using the site checkout system. If you instruct your buyers to pay you in any other way, or to contact you off-site, your seller privileges WILL be revoked. You may provide back up contact methods in case of site failure.

NOTICE: If you are a new vendor, you may not ask your customers to finalize their orders and release payment to you before you ship, a practice known as "finalizing early". If you do this, you will lose your selling priviledges. Once you have completed 35 successful transactions and have been a seller for at least one month, you may ask your customers to finalize early without reprocussion. In no way do we support finalizing early in general and this rule should not be construed as support for finalizing early for more established vendors.

Pricing
You have two options when pricing your listings. They can be priced in constant Bitcoins, or constant US Dollars. If you choose to peg your listings to the dollar, your prices will change dynamically in accordance with the exchange rate between the two currencies. When the Bitcoin appreciates, your prices will fall. When it depreciates, they will rise, so no matter what, you will get the same dollar value for your item. We recommend that you peg your prices to the dollar.

You may also choose whether to set your price before or after commission is added. If you choose "pre-commission pricing", the price you set will be the amount of money you are paid when a transaction is complete, but your customers will see a higher price that includes the commission. If you choose "post-commission pricing", you set the price that your customers pay. When you get paid, the amount you receive will be less than this by the amount of the commission.
Stealth mode
Stealth mode allows you to run your business out of view of the general public. Whether your sales are growing faster than you can expand your infrustructure to keep up, or you just don't want to be in the public eye any more and are happy with the size of your current customer base, stealth mode might by the solution for you. When activated, your listings will no longer appear in public searches, category views, or any pages linked to from the public site. However, your user and item pages will still be available when accessed directly, so your regular customers can still make purchases from you. You may activate stealth mode from your settings page. Note: It can take up to an hour for your listings to go stealth because of caching.

Stealth listings
When listing or editing an item, you may also control its visibility. By checking the box next to stealth listing, you remove the listing from public searches, browsing, and even your user page, so it is only accessible by visiting the item url directly (you can find a link on your account page). This is useful for custom listings meant only for a specific buyer, or for listings you don't want visible on your publicly facing user page.

Postage
You have total freedom when it comes to your postage options. You can call them what you want and price them as you wish, but please be succinct with names like "International", "Priority", "Express", etc. You should create a little section on your user page explaining your shipping options and policies. Give your customers as much info as possible, including estimated shipping times.
Escrow Hedging
Unfortunately, the Bitcoin exchange rate isn't as stable as we would all like it to be, and can fluctuate wildly in a matter of hours, let alone the days or weeks it takes for a package to arrive. Because of this, there is a real danger that the Bitcoins being held in your escrow account will lose value by the time your customers finalize their orders. So, we've given you the option to hedge the future payments you are expecting from escrow such that the dollar value of the payment doesn't change as the Bitcoin exchange rate changes.

For example, someone purchases one of your 10 btc listings. The dollar value of the order when purchased is $100. Now, a week later when the transaction is finalized, those 10 btc are no longer worth $100, they're worth $50! Because you hedged the escrow, you won't get paid 10 btc, you'll get 20 btc equaling the original value of $100. Of course, the opposite is also true. If Bitcoins appreciate in value while your payment is in escrow, you'll get fewer Bitcoins, but they will still equal the original dollar value.

The option to turn off or on escrow hedging can be found on your "settings" page. While it is on, the payments for any orders placed with you will be hedged. Payments for orders placed while it is off will not be hedged, but any hedged orders still not finalized will remain hedged.

On your account page, your escrow balances are split up between hedged and unhedged orders. All orders are hedged as soon as they are placed and unhedged as soon as you are paid.

You can expect a loss of about 4% of your normal payment when using the escrow hedging feature. This is due to the fact that, both when hedging and unhedging, you will lose the bid-ask spread between the available orders that can be used to fill your hedging order.

Auto-withdraw
To minimize the time between when Bitcoins are credited to your account and when you are able to convert them to your currency of choice, and therefore minimizing your exposure to exchange rate fluctuations, we provide an auto-withdrawal feature. Every time a payment comes into your account your entire balance will automatically be withdrawn to three Bitcoin addresses of your choice. This feature can be enabled on your settings page.

A note of caution: it is possible for an adversary to discover your auto-withdrawal address by looking for a transaction in the block-chain around the time they finalize a transaction with you for an amount similar to what they paid you (adjusted for exchange rate fluctuations if hedging). To help obscure your withdrawals, you must enter three withdrawal addresses. Your withdrawal will then be made in 3 random sized chunks to these three addresses with a small, random delay in-between them. These addresses can all be on the same wallet or exchange account so you don't have to keep track of multiple wallets. This will help them blend in to all of the other transactions, but you should change your withdrawal addresses regularly so that an adversary can't see any patterns over multiple transactions.

Pro-tip: set your auto-withdrawal addresses to deposit addresses at an exchange site and keep an open sell order there that is below the market rate, so as soon as the funds are confirmed there, they will be converted into your currency of choice.

Description
You must describe your listings accurately and truthfully. If you do not, it will be reflected in your feedback ratings and you will lose business. We have zero tolerance for any kind of scamming or cheating and have taken many precautions to guard against it.

Images
Some cameras record information about you in an image's meta-data such as GPS location. If you link to an image in your listing, be sure to remove ALL meta-data from the file that could reveal details about your identity.

Packaging
Every precaution must be taken to maintain the secrecy of the contents of your client's package. Creatively disguise it such that a postal inspector might ignore it if it was searched or accidentally came open.

Ship USPS if within the United States. They must obtain a search warrant to open any packages.

If the contents of the package have an odor or can be detected by canine or electronic sniffers, you MUST vacuum seal the package. Do not use odor masking agents such as coffee because dogs are trained to sniff for these too. Check that the vacuum sealed bag is holding tight around its contents, otherwise there is probably a leak.

Make sure the exterior of the package raises no suspicion. Look as professional as possible. The idea here is blend in as much as possible with the rest of the mail stream which is mostly "business reply mail."

Protect the contents of your package. If your item is brittle (such as pills) it needs to be sent in padded packaging (such as a bubble mailer). Do not send pills or any bulky items in envelopes. Envelopes get flattened in automated sorting machines and their contents get crushed.

Do not reveal the details of the packaging you use. You can be tracked this way.

Customer service
As an independent seller, we expect the highest levels of customer service from you. Go above and beyond for your clients and you will be rewarded with superior feedback and repeat purchases. Reputation is everything here and the best way to cultivate it is to treat your customers with respect and courtesy.

Restricted items
Do not list anything who's purpose is to harm or defraud, such as stolen items or info, stolen credit cards, counterfeit currency, personal info, assassinations, and weapons of any kind.
Do not list anything related to pedophilia.

Practically speaking, there are many powerful adversaries of Silk Road and if we are to survive, we must not take them all on at once. Additionally, if you try to please everyone, you will wind up pleasing no one. So certain things are restricted just so we don't scare too many off.

On a moral level, we take the high road, pun intended ;). Those who seek to control the behavior of their neighbors through force are immoral. Silk Road exists to circumvent that force and provide a safe-haven where civilized people can come together in peace for mutual benefit. To allow listings of items designed to defraud or harm innocent people would be to stoop to the level of the very people we are standing up to.

If you are unsure about a listing, just drop us a line and we'll let you know.

Buyer statistics
When a new customer buys one of your items, you will have a chance to see some statistics of their past purchases. We give you this limited data so you can make better judgements about who you can trust to do business with. A buyer who has been a member of Silk Road for a while, has many purchases, and doesn't have a high refund or auto-finalize rate is a great buyer and most likely deserves your trust. Other buyers won't have a track record yet, and it's up to you if you want to give them the benefit of the doubt and help them get started establishing their reputations. Working with buyers who have no record or a bad record can be a great way to establish yourself as a seller. Once you have a reputation of your own, you can afford to be more picky.

Accounts
We strongly encourage you to create a separate account for making purchases. If you do not, it is possible for an adversary to find out your mailing address. If you buy something from them, and provide an address, they know that the address belongs to you and can see from your feedback how much you are selling and what you are selling.

Final note
Regardless of your motivations, you are a revolutionary. Your actions are bringing satisfaction to those that have been oppressed for far too long. Take pride in what you do and stand tall.

If you have any questions or concerns at all, we are here to support you. Please also send any suggestions for improving this guide via the "contact us" link below :)
Title: Re: What the SELLER´S GUIDE tells us about FINALIZING EARLY
Post by: Laughing Man on March 23, 2012, 09:48 am
While I can see why buyers want to avoid early finalization as much as possible, they also have to understand that most vendors can't afford to front hundreds if not thousands of product at a time, especially to new buyers with no sales record.
Title: Re: What the SELLER´S GUIDE tells us about FINALIZING EARLY
Post by: SuperDimitri on March 23, 2012, 12:56 pm
Exactly what LM said.
And also, look at the trend, it is only NEW buyers getting scammed by NEW vendors. they deserve to get fucked. Sorry, but it's the truth. People hear about S and get all gung ho. I bet more than 50% don't even learn to use PGP. they get here all excited to buy some drugs....even though they already do IRL.....they click on something they want, find the 1st vendor they see, read one page of feedback, have no clue about the forums, and bam, there goes they paycheck....THEN they find the forums, and come to cry.
Boo fucking hoo.
Luckily, I found the forums 1st. ;)
Title: Re: What the SELLER´S GUIDE tells us about FINALIZING EARLY
Post by: sildenafil on March 24, 2012, 11:17 am
Exactly what LM said.
And also, look at the trend, it is only NEW buyers getting scammed by NEW vendors. they deserve to get fucked. Sorry, but it's the truth. People hear about S and get all gung ho. I bet more than 50% don't even learn to use PGP. they get here all excited to buy some drugs....even though they already do IRL.....they click on something they want, find the 1st vendor they see, read one page of feedback, have no clue about the forums, and bam, there goes they paycheck....THEN they find the forums, and come to cry.
Boo fucking hoo.
Luckily, I found the forums 1st. ;)

I totally agree dude^^
That is also the reason why this discussion keeps on going in the forums even though everything is so simple and clear - you only have to inform yourself when you want to do business ;)

Greets JD^^
Title: Re: What the SELLER´S GUIDE tells us about FINALIZING EARLY
Post by: opi on March 24, 2012, 11:35 am
While I can see why buyers want to avoid early finalization as much as possible, they also have to understand that most vendors can't afford to front hundreds if not thousands of product at a time, especially to new buyers with no sales record.

X2 I am a new vendor and I have close to 2 thousand dollars invested half of the product is enroute to the buyers and I am still pennyless!

It gets difficult to keep up with orders when you have no income coming in and thousands leaving for weeks at a time.
Title: Re: What the SELLER´S GUIDE tells us about FINALIZING EARLY
Post by: M n P Stuff on March 25, 2012, 04:46 pm
Why do the sellers get advice with such a different tone as the buyers? The way the buyers' guide reads, FE is the stupidest thing we can do and we should all beat ourselves in the skull with a shovel for even considering it.

But with the sellers, they basically say "meh, spend a week or two building feedback and then go nuts. Nobody minds."

It just seems inconsistent.

We agree with you about the inconsistencies in buyers and sellers guilds. We personally have been buyers here at SR since last year and don't know why SR allows any vendor to ask that you finalize early.

Have no idea what you were saying in that last part though! Lol!

We just started Mom n Pop Stuff store in SR and have no intentions of ever asking anyone for early finalization as it defeats the whole Silk Road protection for both vendor and buyer! So your money is hung up until the package gets to where you sent it. Take it from 2 older real world business owners in the past; that's just part of doing business anywhere!

That of course is just our opinions of course, but we agree with never finalizing early except for very special circumstances that would make doing this or asking this, necessary.

Thank you for listening to us!

Mom n Pop Stuff
Title: Re: What the SELLER´S GUIDE tells us about FINALIZING EARLY
Post by: M n P Stuff on March 25, 2012, 06:02 pm
While I can see why buyers want to avoid early finalization as much as possible, they also have to understand that most vendors can't afford to front hundreds if not thousands of product at a time, especially to new buyers with no sales record.

Then you stealth or vacation your listings with an explanation along those or more generic line until you can recoup the funds to continue. Shrug? That would be the most polite thing to do. You're going to take this wrong we think, and we are only vendors for 2 days now, 1 of those days spent in stealth mode so I could get my few items up.

We will never ask for early finalization because it is against the Silk Road Buyers guild and has this kind of snobbish air to it. We personally just had 2 'fire sale' items canceled because we refused, each of us - to finalize early. That's fine I guess, but will NEVER be back to that vendor again. We don't allow our selves to be whored out because 'we just have to have it' (pant, pant, pant).

Sorry, it just shows no class.

We'll see if we eat crow after we've been in the business for a while. We learn something new and valuable with ever post (whether we agree with it or not!) we read! But as for the time being - Mom n Pop Stuff will NEVER ask for FE. Or not sell to you because you do not have a bunch of orders. You have to start some where people.

Thank you for this opinion!

Mom n Pop Stuff

The woods are lovely, dark and deep,
But I have promises to keep,
And miles to go before I sleep,
And miles to go before I sleep.
Title: Re: What the SELLER´S GUIDE tells us about FINALIZING EARLY
Post by: M n P Stuff on March 25, 2012, 06:09 pm
Why do the sellers get advice with such a different tone as the buyers? The way the buyers' guide reads, FE is the stupidest thing we can do and we should all beat ourselves in the skull with a shovel for even considering it.

But with the sellers, they basically say "meh, spend a week or two building feedback and then go nuts. Nobody minds."

It just seems inconsistent.

Lol! We agree! Except for the second sentence any way. Not sure what you even meant with that part, lol.  ???

Thank you for this thought coptcha!

Mom n Pop Stuff

We never ask for finalization, not because its some vague 'sellers' prerogative, but because it's the right thing to do.
Title: Re: What the SELLER´S GUIDE tells us about FINALIZING EARLY
Post by: sildenafil on March 25, 2012, 06:44 pm
@M n P Stuff

This thread is NOT used to distinguish yourselves as a good vendor because you do not ask for finalization!
This thread should help to understand both sides. The sellers and the vendors site.
Maybe you should read all entries with the topic "finalizing early" in the forum to understand before you
praise yourselves as "the one and only"!

Greets JD
Title: Re: What the SELLER´S GUIDE tells us about FINALIZING EARLY
Post by: M n P Stuff on March 26, 2012, 01:51 am
@M n P Stuff

This thread is NOT used to distinguish yourselves as a good vendor because you do not ask for finalization!
This thread should help to understand both sides. The sellers and the vendors site.
Maybe you should read all entries with the topic "finalizing early" in the forum to understand before you
praise yourselves as "the one and only"!

Greets JD

Oooooooo!

Now you run the forums too?

Kewl! Check out this from Silk Road Support; "If you have over 5 purchases, do not EVER finalize early, even for trusted vendors. If a vendor tells you that you have to finalize in order to have your order
sent, demand them to cancel your order. The escrow system is the ONLY way for SR to protect your money and SR is not responsible if you finalize early and get scammed."

But thanx for your pointless control here friend!

Mom n Pop Stuff

The woods are lovely, dark and deep,
But I have promises to keep,
And miles to go before I sleep,
And miles to go before I sleep.
Title: Re: What the SELLER´S GUIDE tells us about FINALIZING EARLY
Post by: Addy on March 26, 2012, 08:25 am
Derp. Seller's Guide is on the Account page.

In any case, I agree that the Seller's and Buyer's Guide shouldn't be so blatantly contradicting. Either state in the rules that sellers can FE or they can't.

As for myself, I have no problem FE for some sellers, but this debate has been done to death.
Title: Re: What the SELLER´S GUIDE tells us about FINALIZING EARLY
Post by: sildenafil on March 26, 2012, 09:22 am
@M n P Stuff

This thread is NOT used to distinguish yourselves as a good vendor because you do not ask for finalization!
This thread should help to understand both sides. The sellers and the vendors site.
Maybe you should read all entries with the topic "finalizing early" in the forum to understand before you
praise yourselves as "the one and only"!

Greets JD

Oooooooo!

Now you run the forums too?

Kewl! Check out this from Silk Road Support; "If you have over 5 purchases, do not EVER finalize early, even for trusted vendors. If a vendor tells you that you have to finalize in order to have your order
sent, demand them to cancel your order. The escrow system is the ONLY way for SR to protect your money and SR is not responsible if you finalize early and get scammed."

But thanx for your pointless control here friend!

Mom n Pop Stuff

The woods are lovely, dark and deep,
But I have promises to keep,
And miles to go before I sleep,
And miles to go before I sleep.

NO, but I run my thread if you do not mind!
If you got a individual message from SR Support it does not mean that this is meant to everyone.
The Team consists of more than one person and of course there might be a person who is new
or might see the situation about finalization different than SR does!
So I really do not care about your PM.

And by the way:
As I run the thread and like ADDY told correct:  "...this debate has been done to death."
Therefore I close it now ;)

Greets JD