Silk Road forums
Discussion => Philosophy, Economics and Justice => Topic started by: The Scientist on February 08, 2013, 09:06 am
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I know what they are by definition and I've experienced them many times, but what exactly causes them, and where do they come from? There's surprisingly little information about this.
i think psychedelic drugs amplify unconscious mental processes to visual levels of awareness. the geometric shapes and patterns are representations of the normal operations of your mind somehow brought to the surface of consciousness. they are not 'hallucinations' or illusions.
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I remember hearing somewhere that your optic nerve/whatever lights up and acts just like you're actually "seeing" something with open eyes. I don't know for sure though, but I am interested in the process! If no one gets back to you on this, I'll look it up this weekend for us.
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copy pasted from wikipedia - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Closed-eye_hallucination
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Closed-eye hallucinations and closed-eye visualizations (CEV) are a distinct class of hallucination. These types of hallucinations generally only occur when one's eyes are closed or when one is in a darkened room. They are a form of phosphene. Certain users report closed-eye hallucinations under the influence of psychedelics. These are reportedly of a different nature than the "open-eye" hallucinations of the same compounds. Closed eye hallucination is directly related to a chronic type.
There are five known levels of CEV perception which can be achieved either through chemical stimuli or through meditative relaxation techniques. Level 1 and 2 are very common, and often happen every day. It is still normal to experience level 3, and even level 4, but only a small percentage of the population do this without psychedelic drugs, meditation or extensive visualization training.
Level 1: Visual noise
CEV noise simulation
The most basic form of CEV perception that can be immediately experienced in normal waking consciousness involves a seemingly random noise of pointillistic light/dark regions with no apparent shape or order.
This can be seen when the eyes are closed and looking at the back of the eyelids. In a bright room, a dark red can be seen, owing to a small amount of light penetrating the eyelids and taking on the color of the blood within them. In a dark room, blackness can be seen or the object can be more colourful. But in either case it is not a flat unchanging redness/blackness. Instead, if actively observed for a few minutes, one becomes aware of an apparent disorganized motion, a random field of lightness/darkness that overlays the redness/blackness of your closed eyelids.
For a person who tries to actively observe this closed-eye perception on a regular basis, there comes a point where if he or she looks at a flat-shaded object with his or her eyes wide open, and tries to actively look for this visual noise, he or she will become aware of it and see the random pointillistic disorganized motion as if it were a translucent overlay on top of what is actually being seen by his or her open eyes.
When seen overlaid onto the physical world, this CEV noise does not obscure physical vision at all, and in fact is hard to notice if the visual field is highly patterned, complex, or in motion. When active observation is stopped, it is not obvious or noticeable, and seemingly disappears from normal physical perception. Individuals suffering from visual snow see similar noise but experience difficulty blocking it from conscious perception.
The noise probably originates from thermal noise exciting the photoreceptor cells in the retina compare Eigengrau.
Level 2: Light/dark flashes
Some mental control can be exerted over these closed-eye visualizations, but it usually requires a bit of relaxation and concentration to achieve. When properly relaxed it is possible to cause regions of intense black, bright white or even colors such as yellow, green, or pink to appear in the noise. These regions can span the entire visual field, but seem to be fleeting in nature.
Level 3: Patterns, motion, and color
This level is relatively easily accessible to people who use LSD, and appears to be what most people refer to as colourful visuals. However, it is also accessible to people involved in deep concentration for long periods of time. When lying down at night and closing the eyes, right before sleep the complex motion of these patterns can become directly visible without any great effort thanks to hypnagogic hallucination. The patterns themselves might resemble fractals.
Level 4: Objects and things
This is a fairly deep state. At this level, thoughts visually manifest as objects or environments. When this level is reached, the CEV noise seems to calm down and fade away, leaving behind an intense flat ordered blackness. The visual field becomes a sort of active space. A side component of this is the ability to feel motion when the eyes are closed.[citation needed]
Some paranormal researchers believe that remote places can be viewed in this state and have named it remote viewing.
Opening the eyes returns one to the normal physical world, but still with the CEV object field overlaid onto it and present. In this state it is possible to see things that appear to be physical objects in the open-eye physical world, but that aren't really there.
Level 5: Overriding physical perception
If inducing by drugs or mental disease, this is the point where it appears to the outside world that a person is either unconscious or insane. The internal CEV perceptions and think-it/feel-it perceptions become stronger than physical perceptions, and completely override and replace open-eye physical perceptions. This can be a potentially dangerous state if a person is still mobile while in a different imagined world, but by this time most people are motionless and not likely to do something hazardous to themselves or others. This is the point where most hallucinogenic references say it is a good idea to have a "sitter" present to watch over the person using the chemicals, and keep them from accidentally harming themselves or others while deep into their own world.
This level can be entered from complete sensory deprivation, as experienced in an isolation tank, but even there it requires great relaxation.
According to lucid dreaming researcher Stephen LaBerge, perceptions can come from either the senses or imagination. A inhibitory system involving in the thalamus, likely involving serotonergic neurons, inhibits imaginary perceptions from becoming too activated so they turn into hallucinations. This system is inhibited during REM sleep, and the imagination can freely run into the perceptual systems. What happens at level 5 is likely that this system is inhibited, just like in REM sleep, by different causes like sensory deprivation, psychedelic drugs or meditative relaxation techniques.
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thanks, that clarifies what I am referring to (level 3 - 5 closed eye visuals), although that's more of a description of closed-eye visuals rather than an elucidation of the underlying neurological causes.
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I love CEV's. I havent mastered lucid dreaming yet,
but i get little scraps here and there
and it's something that various drugs have quite interesting effects on.
even 'less extreme' chemicals like melatonin, 5htp, and various herbs like valerian root, hops, and passion flower
can increase and perturb your normal Hypnagogia into something trippy and awesome.
i still really want to try calea zacatechichi as well
look up the phenomena called the Prisoners Cinema
some even think these kinds of CEV's were instrumental in
humans' development of creative and abstract thinking
check out the book "The Mind in the Cave"
8)
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Important for understanding this statement:
I personally believe consciousness is NOT (!!) generated by the brain but actually an originating force, the brain is a mere connector between body and spirit.
Psychedelics do nothing but decouple the brain from spirit, more or less partially, and at the point where we (as consciousness) would normally be tied to sensual input from the body, the gap would have to be filled with other sorts of perceptions. Their origin is probably a combination of several things, lots of research would have be done here, however, I believe neurologists would utterly fail to find anything of value.
The cleanest chemically possible decoupling would probably be through DMT.
Oh yes and of course I do love CEVs :D
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thanks, that clarifies what I am referring to (level 3 - 5 closed eye visuals), although that's more of a description of closed-eye visuals rather than an elucidation of the underlying neurological causes.
I believe below might be close to the answer you are looking for. I am fairly confident in the accuracy of the following.
A short summary of sight: the eyes are part of the periphery system that receives signals from the outside world. The eyes have a lot of receptors that can be "stimulated" by the reflection of light off of an object. The stimulation of these receptors is what triggers information sent to the brain telling it, the brain, to interpret the stimulation into an image.
Now, hallucinations and perceptual distortions (such as phosphenes) are produced in different scenarios but notably, for your question, they occur in altered states of consciousness. Altered states can be brought on by drug use, specifically psychedelics. Part of this psychedelic state involves a seemingly random stimulation of receptors in your periphery system--most commonly the visual system (the eyes). At less intense doses a less-deep state of consciousness provokes only minor stimulation of the eyes so when you close your eyes, those receptors are still sending information and your brain tries to convert the stimulation into an understandable piece of information--if the information is inadequate it produces vague or simple colors/shapes etc.
The more intense the drug dose, the more intense the stimulation, and therefore the more detailed and elaborate the information being sent from your eyes to your brain becomes. This is why at higher doses CEVs will become more intense and can even override "real" information from the environment around you and create visual hallucinations that distort or replace what would normally be seen in the environment.
The above applies to all senses but touch and smell are the most resistant to such modifications so seeing and hearing are the most common hallucinatory experiences.
Hope this clears some of what you were asking up.
Cheers
Snoopish
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is that what a blind person would see if they dropped lucy???
ive always wondered
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is that what a blind person would see if they dropped lucy???
ive always wondered
thats real deep man, you got me wonderin now too!
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Nice topic, OP!
This member of the ILF also thinks that synesthesia is involved. It's common for sounds and music to influence the shapes and content of the visuals, and even tactile sensations (say, something as simple as scratching your head) can be "seen" if in the right state of mind. Also, he would suspect that everyone experiences synesthesia to a greater extent as a child, and the ability to perceive in a more combined fashion is lost over time as people rely more on abstraction and analysis to break things into "components" for the purpose of understanding the complex constructs created and tasks required in a "modern," "rational," "society."
Really intense CEVs, though, make him wonder if there isn't a level of communication going on that's even deeper, and here all sorts of strange ideas about the universe being made up of information and such could come into play.
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Wow, CEVs via meditation? Kickass.
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I've been very successful with using lucid dreaming to gain CEV. I'd highly recommend learning / practicing lucid dreaming.
I relax as if to take a nap, but while I fall asleep I concentrate on my third eye. Just like the wiki post, all I see at first is random noise patterns but eventually I start to see shapes as I fall closer to the border of sleeping. At some point, I will see a door way and imagine myself floating through it. After which, you kind of wake up into a dream you can control where everything feels hyper real.
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OOB experiences can start this way
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I've been very successful with using lucid dreaming to gain CEV. I'd highly recommend learning / practicing lucid dreaming.
I relax as if to take a nap, but while I fall asleep I concentrate on my third eye. Just like the wiki post, all I see at first is random noise patterns but eventually I start to see shapes as I fall closer to the border of sleeping. At some point, I will see a door way and imagine myself floating through it. After which, you kind of wake up into a dream you can control where everything feels hyper real.
I've experienced this lucid dreaming before. I've also heard it can be mastered with practice. I've never tried to practice it, however. It is such a strange feeling controlling your dream. Especially if you're not expecting it and you all of a sudden find yourself thinking, "ok, what should I do now?" The most amazing lucid dreaming I have experienced was while I was on Malaria medication. Jesus that stuff fucked with my head. I can still to this day clearly remember every aspect of that dream. A strange thing the mind is.
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Subscribing!
:D
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I have heard many interesting interpretations of what CEVs might actually be. One is that the brain sends visual signals through an alternative route through the brain that alters how those signals are interpreted. Another is that it is a byproduct of mental healing, an interesting theory considering that some gurus supposedly are immune to the effects of even high dosages of acid. There are however people who trip without getting visuals, yet still say that they get the positive effects from the substances.
My own thoughts are related to art. Most healthy people are greatly influenced by art, either visual, auditory or linguistic. Look at a painting and you will resonate with it, perceiving beauty is often accompanied by intense emotion and boosts of energy or will. Different paintings evoke different emotions and looking at the same paintings, but in different orders will alter your associations and thoughts at meeting those paintings.
I think CEVs are basically the same thing but inverted. Taking a hallucinogen often results in intense emotions, unusual patterns of thought and refreshing ideas, coupled with insight about ones self and relations to others. Without having an input from the senses as a catalyst for the emotions, the senses become channels of output insead, effectively creating art in your mind and projecting it on the canvas of reality.
An interesting thing I've noticed while tripping is that looking at the simplest things - like blank paper, wood, coffee stains or some plain boring walls - can be a very fascinating experience, where the mind manifests complex patterns, simulates movement and adds colour. But when I look at a painting, or a photograph, it's completely static. It is still fascinating, and absolutely beautiful and engaging, but it does not look noticeably different than usual.
This might be different on higher dosages, I will experiment in the future and see how well my ideas hold under scrutiny :) I have no good explanation for how HPPD would be included in these thoughts, but I think it should be. Another thing I have noticed is that many shroom-heads say that they get a slightly lower base tolerance over years of use. I would rather think that their minds become more skilled artists ;)
There are more things I want to say, but I feel like I have spent my words for now. Great thread, looking forward to a continuing discussion.
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This is why I love SR forums, subscribing!
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Another thing that can cause closed-eye visuals are cosmic rays. Though they rarely make it to the earth with enough energy to stimulate a photo-receptor, they do happen. (about 1 per square km./day) This can cause flashes of light, and has been reported that astronauts are trying to sleep noticed that they can actually 'see' the cosmic rays that permeate outer space, since they are above the atmosphere which is responsible for absorbing most of the harmful rays. To them it looks as if point-like flashes of light are being seen.
Though I doubt your experiencing high amounts of cosmic rays unless your at a VERY high altitude, I thought it was interesting nontheless. The mere fact that your vision can be distorted by external universal forces is pretty cool.
On a side-note, cosmic rays hitting the atmosphere cause muons to rain down to the earth, which have a ridiculously short life span, yet they make it the whole way to the ground. This was supporting evidence of special relativity since particles moving near the speed of light experience time-dilation and can outlast their reported decay-rates.