Silk Road forums
Discussion => Drug safety => Topic started by: virmo_new on May 31, 2013, 04:02 pm
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First batch we got was made with 120ml gbl 65gram naoh and 120ml demineralised water. This was done in this way:
Add water to naoh, solution became hot and clear. Then added gbl and it went boiling vigorously. Ph was a bit too high so 2teapsoons of vinegar was used. Ph is now 7.5 but we think there is unreacted gbl in it.
How to fix this?
Pyrex dish was used.
Second batch was perfect but we wanted to see if putting the pyrex dish in boiling water make it thicker or even solid (or can that only be done with 95%ethanol and 5%methanol.. or can 95% ethanol and 5% water also capable of doing this. If so, how?
But then the pyrex dish fell into the pan and normal hot water came in. No idea how much. PH was 6.5-7.
Added naoh and gbl. Ph was over 10. So about 110grams of naoh was added and about 250ml gbl which did not synthesize well so we put it in a better sized pan with boiling water for about 2 hours. Ph is now 6.5 how is this possible and how to fix this. There is no more gbl left, only Naoh and demineralised water...
How to fix this?
We did a synthesis on our own:
80ml demi 40 naoh + -85ml gbl did not boil but did become hot.
Did the boiling thing (the solution obviously does not boil in au bain marie way). Added 2 grams of naoh and 8ml demi water because the gbl did not synthesize fully.
Then added 4 grams of naoh. We thought we got cystelized ghb but turned out to be ph >10 So it must have been the dried naoh. Measured cooled down.
Added 80ml demi water and boiled way again gbl still did not fully get into it, then added 100ml demi water and gbl is dissolved into it. Ph is 6.5 how is this possible? The gbl we have is ph 7 which we find odd, other was ph 8. Might it be that it is not 99,99% after all?
We used the lid in all procedures so the gbl and water could not get away. Might it be that the water became distilled water instead of demineralized and that demineralized has ph 6.5?
We hope somebody knows more about this and can and wants to help us out. We want good ghb with a good taste. We read about using 2 way bottled neck flasks or something but we don't have that. Also no oven to get it to 150 degrees.
We do not put it in the pan because we read aluminium is very bad and even stainless steel has disadvantages. Some vendors do not care but we want only the best. We don't want people dying by bad synthesis.
We hope we can fix the gbl/ghb/naoh/water or whatever it is and not throw out everything because we have no more gbl and will take some time getting a new stash.
Probably from another vendor. But some either are cops or call the cops to inform them so getting gbl is risky.
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We also read that mold can get into the ghb, does this also happen with demineralized water? How long and how can you store ghb in the best way? Freezer?
Some say DO NOT USE TAP WATER, others say it's fine.
What is true? We thought we had the right one from rhodium but we have also read DO NOT USE VINEGAR CHARCOIL OR CITRIC ACID.
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This is always my reference guide
https://www.erowid.org/archive/rhodium/chemistry/ghb.html (***CLEARNET***)
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To do synthesis reactions like these, its best to stop fooling around with household glassware and such, and buy proper lab equipment that actually seals what you connect pieces and such.
One way to go about this would be to have the caustic solution (NaOH in water) in the reaction vessel, and add GBL through a dripper funnel, allowing you to control at what speed it is added, as well as the exact the amount you add. The speed should be limited by temperature - if the reaction overheats, decrease the drop rate or stop in entirely.
Keep track of the pH to see if all the NaOH has reacted yet, stop the reaction when the pH starts to drop to the desired value. If you place the reaction vessel in a heater, you can finish off the synthesis by very slowly adding GBL while heating the vessel to obtain ideal end pH at increased temperature with a very slow flow of GBL.
This can be performed the other way around with the GBL to start with in the reaction vessel and adding NaOH solution in a controlled fashion.
As for the water you use: This depends on where you live and what actually comes out of the tap. Often there are significant amounts of calcium and magnesium ions present ("hard water"). Considering how cheap demineralized water is, i would not bother with it in the first place. Hardware stores and gas stations often sell demineralized water at low prices - i think its $0.99 for a litre bottle or so, and considering the total value of the brew this would be of no concern.
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The erowid rhodium contains the recipe with 40% ethanol?
We once had ethanol 96% 4% water. It was really easy.
The professional labware seems obsolete to us. Though we might misunderstand what you mean by reaction vessle. Is it the two way neck or two neck way thing in which you can add two things and mix them slowly? We read about this with the ethanol solution if I remember correctly. Which we prefer since it's easier to ship more grams of GHB powder than grams in liquid.
(Also easier to hide).
Temperate device + Ph Device are on our list. Not cheap though.
Then the problem remains, what IS the right recipe for GBL (amounts etc.). And what for the ethanol recipe? We prefer this but want to know which is better: ethanol with some water or ethanol with some methanol? Or just 500mg methanol? Then it HAS to be right otherwise it is really dangerous.
Also we would like to find a way to make sure gbl is 99,99%. We read to use at least 98% but then it contains metals and that is not good. So how to purify the metals?
We would like to know quite fast, real answers.
One friend of mine is addicted to bad ghb. Or at least, when the friend was on Xyrem he felt fysically fine. With the friends ghb he feels his liver and kidneys, passes out because quality changes and perhaps contains unreacted gbl or naoh too much naoh?
The situation seems critical and we do not want another friend almost dead going to a crisis clinic and get all sorts of meds. The friend also passes out many times and sweats like a pig and smells terrible and I'm concerned about the friend dying soon if the friend continues doing this.
So we really need help on what is the problem with our ghb so we can fix this ASAP. Better today than tomorrow. The friend looks terrible and feels like dying and also looks that way.
We can not see the friend often because not picking up the phone being passed out or has not taken his shit in order to even speak correctly.
So please somebody tell us either here or through pm if you do not wish to share the knowledge publicly.
We know a psychiatrist who knows how to do this so it is possible. But the psychiatrist does not want to share this knowledge with us because of it being illegal and the psychiatrist sais the friend needs to quit taking it but also that the friend can die from doing so, so the friend needs to go to a clinic but there the friend will get Xyrem, a shitload of antipsychotics and dangerous amounts of valium. Besides that, the friend already did that and got other drugs from patients there and fucked up and got kicked out of clinics so this will not work and only make the friends condition worse...
What PH does distilled water have? 6.5? If so, then our synthesis contains too much distilled water by putting it in pyrex glass in simmering water with the lid on. The PH of everything we have described above.
There is no undiluted gbl. The gbl can be less than 99,99%. Though it is clear like BASF it smells different. If we remind correctly BASF is clear and ordorless.
We are afraid the FEDS know about our order. So we can not order again. Other websites look suspicious and do not reply to messages and contain pdfs which are not safe.
Should we add more NAOH? Or should we get distilled or more demineralized water? Our tap water in each of our houses tastes bad compared to what we are used to. But PH seems fine.
All the recipes we can find are about either expensive labware which we can only buy if we sell more, or about just using a pyrex dish. Some are just about "pans" and some about stainless steel. Pyrex is our best option right now.
There is no unreacted gbl. Perhaps we did heat it too long. But it did not boil and we know it can be heated up to 150 degrees in an oven with temperature control but we dont have temperature control. Perhaps there are cheap devices instead of Temperature control devices starting from $60? And perhaps we need a ph meter instead of paper because they keep changing colour and even with 4-10 papers we are not 100% sure which Ph it actually has. But they also cost over $60 if they contain correction for temperature.
Long story short: we need accurate info and correction of the stuff we have now...
We could also send vials with our water, demineralized water (but I guess that is the same everywhere and here it is not too expensive). And our solution. But based on location that would take too long.
Should we just add water so it can not be the naoh that is too much? But naoh+demi water = ph 14. Our synthesis now is 7.5 ph but hurts the friends body as well. And Ph 6.5 seems too little because everywhere it sais it should be between 7-8. Which we do not understand because coca cola and all sorts of drinks are very acidic...
Please help out, somebody. We need help asap because friend might die otherwise...
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If you want to neutralize an NaOH solution, I'd use dilute hydrochloric acid until the pH reaches 7. Reacting NaOH with HCl will give you H2O and NaCl (table salt), which is better than using vinegar. Sodium acetate isn't really pleasant, and acetic acid isn't either...
To get pure GBL you should use a real chemical supply house like sigma-aaldrich, you would need access to a university to source it though, chemical suppply houses don't sell to individuals. If your GBL is from BASF it's fine too. The pH of distilled water can be as low as 6, depending on how old it is, carbon dioxide dissolves in it over time, forming carbonic acid, making the pH drop. Freshly distilled water should be neutral : pH 7. If the pH of your solution if between 6 or 8 you're generally fine, unless your lye isn't pure. Dilute lye is no more toxic than a baking soda solution. I would still neutralise it with (high quality) hydrochloric acid.
One point that GHB "cooks" often miss is the quality of the lye, "pure lye" that you buy in a construction store contains many impurities, it's important that you get your lye from a brand like BASF, or sigma-aaldrich as well, it should be reagent grade. Also, you're supposed to reflux the reaction to make it complete. The realy synthesis of GHB is more complicated than adding lye and GBL in stoechiometric proportions.
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the 6.5ghb turns out to taste better than our 7.5 solution. Probably the water distilled a bit then and too much water was added which might not be bad because then the solution is less potent and less salty and probably less unhealthy. Dosage for the friend should be added to a lot more with same dose of ghb.
I think the synthesis of gbl/naoh went right. Clear solution which does not smell like unreacted gbl. And the gbl can be seen perfectly while in a pyrex dish because it floats.
Not totally sure but cant gbl be distilled in the same matter or is the temperate needed for that way higher?
Then no equipment we do not have access to could be used. Otherwise we would have to find a new BASF vendor but on SR it's way too expensive and IRL it can be anything nowadays (unlike in 2012 when they shipped to everyone. Now they only ship to cleaning agencies and we guess we can not make a fake one.
We read that adding gbl to naoh should become exhothermic. But it didn't. Whats up with that?
And after adding demi it boiled for about 10 seconds.
So many recipes so many bad ones...
But probably better for health to have a solution with ph 6.5 with some distilled water. Just need to take more and tasted more like Xyrem although that is the perfect solution to us since it is pretty potent and not tastes like shit.
We might save the friend by shipping the 6.5 version instead of the 7.5 version. Or still make sure it is in pyrex and simmers again in hot water but also would make things more complicated....
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Ok today room temperate is different and it sais ph 7. Which is the same as the gbl used but all ghb dissolved. So we guess it's ok not perfect just really weak because of too much water was used...
Adding more naoh would not make sense same for gbl since they do not dissolve while adding each of those and heating it to just below boiling point...
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You should measure the pH of your solutions before the reactions to know if it's right or not. Unreacted GBL can stay in solution though, small amounts can easily be dissolved. I would use an excess of NaOH to drive the reaction to the right and then neutralize it with hydrochloric acid. You'll have salt in it which won't help with the taste but at least there'll be less unreacted GBL.
I also recommend using potash, KOH, instead of lye, NaOH because sodium is bad for your health and GHB lowers your blood levels of potassium. It's less potent by weight but you use the liquid form anyways so it's not an issue. Maybe you could use a 50/50 mix of KOH and NaOH, it'd be healthier than NaOH alone and only a little less potent.
You also absolutely have to use reagent grade hydroxide.
If it boiled for 10 seconds the reaction was exothermic, and it is supposed to act like that.
If you want to make good GHB, use reagent grade hydroxide and GBL, and try to make the reaction more complete, by adding an excess of (prefereably potassium) hydroxide, then neutralize it with, again, reagent grade hydrochloric acid. Don't use anything you buy at a normal store. Only stuff in glass bottles that are made for chemistry and not for cleaning pools or for clogged toilets.
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hydrochloric acid? What is that?
Naoh+Koh, interesting. We never heard that before.
The GBL we used is for cleaning car tire things. And is mentioned as 99,99% pure.
It is not chinese gbl though and has a different ph than basf (if we remember correctly basf has a ph of 8, this one has a ph of 7). Then again, the difference in ph might be due to different room temperatures so we will need a ph measuring device with temperature control.
The GHB we have now has a PH of between 6.5 and 7.5. I tasted it myself and it tastes better than the true 7.5 we got. It has no unreacted gbl (which is not lye if rhodium and erowid are correct). The Naoh we have is 99% pure. Should be reagent grade no?
Thanks for the replies. We think it is bullshit to keep good GHB advice a secret. Customers should get good stuff instead of being scammed with poison.
Strange thing is.. I never used GHB a lot but did try this to help our friend. Also the GBL. The GBL works within 15 minutes and makes me sweat like a pig. The GHB our friend uses works within 30 minutes. The GHB we reacted more works after 1 hour and keeps building up the effects. It's now 2 hours after ingestion and the effects seem to keep building up. Then again I also drink alcohol slowly. I used 10ml's of the 6.5-7.5PH GHB which tastes ok. I guess it's slowly processed by my liver and the alcohol is blocking it a bit?
I know the combination is not recommended but I never die from dangerous combinations. Also ghb + a lot of benzo's and ghb. Did put me KO and gave respiratory problems. But also very interesting psychotic/psychedelic dreams.
I do not advice other people to do this since most people get into hospitals because of this dosage, benzo use and alcohol.
Strange thing is, one solution had added vinegar to it. After putting some in a coffee filter it turned clear instead of slightly yellow.
Tastes better though. PH stays the same. Room temperature is same as temperature outside which might explain this. Probably PH papers capable of measuring between 4-10 are not good enough to correctly measure PH.
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You don't know hydrochloric acid? HCl? It's one of the most common acids used in chemistry! And using it to neutralise NaOH makes NaCl (salt, not harmful) and H2O (that's just water). If you neutralize KOH you get KCl which isn't harmful either and is something that you should take along with GHB because of GHB's effects on potassium.
The wheel cleaner is not 99.99% pure, obviously. Even the best Sigma-Aaldrich is only advertised as >99%, wheel cleaner is pretty dirty GHB and probably contaminated with heavy metals and/or other impurities, regular lye is contaminated with metals too.
What do you use to measure the pH? You should use a calibrated pH-meter and not pH paper... You should use much better material if you want to make clean liquid GHB.
99% NaOH is reagent grade so that's good. And there can still be unreacted GBL, you can't tell by measuring the pH, since GBL is pH neutral. I don't know why it kept building up after 1 hour but you drank so maybe that's why, or maybe it's because you didn't have an empty stomach. GHB doesn't need processing by the liver to be active so if your liver is busy with the alcohol it normally shouldn't affect it.
And neutralizing with vinegar is really not the way the go. GHB and benzos... you shouldn't do that :) Even if it gives you cool dreams, you could've breathed in your vomit... And what do you mean with the thing turning yellow?
Also, your pH papers are crappy... Buy an electronic pH meter, it's not so expensive and it's worth it (if not necessary) if you want to do some GHB.
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Yes that is what we said. PH papers are shit. The colours do not even match the measuring papers.
My liver is too busy processing other crap. And now ingested 3 blotters or 800-1000ug nbome25i. It has been a while since I took a psychedelic since ketamine which I love.
I never vomit so thats why I keep on living. Stupidest thing was to drink a lot of beers and then strong beers while being in gbl smell for a long time and then just ingesting a bottle cap which is way more than 10ml. I had interesting dreams then woke up instantly being totally confused. it was trippy. But that was the only time I think I could have died.
I can also drink 2 liters of whiskey and not die. But that was totally stupid ofcourse. I did a lot of things I do not remember and things came back to me like a puzzle.
The GHB we have now is still better than those of many vendors which use shit or just put gbl in it, or in aluminium pans. If you want you can sample a few and tell us it;s impure. Nothing is unreacted. Vinegar is filtered out, ph is ok and effect seems genuine.
Stronger than some of some vendors and not cooked in alu pans. We do hope to sell some. Next time we will use professional gear. We hope to make it taste like Xyrem. That tastes and feels very clean and is ofcourse 100% perfect.
I know about the benzo alcohol ghb thing. But trust me, if I want to kill myself I cant. So these will not be a problem, unless I take 40mg's zolpidem intranassaly after 10+ ghb and strong alcohol. So I will not do that.
GHB sucks anyway if you do not have a boyfriend who accepts it and wants to fuck hardcore :p
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We know Hcl, just not where to get it yet.
One genuine vendor completely ripped us off and did not refund money. They sell lab equipement only.
Perhaps we should try again and play the risk.
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Oh so you're completely high right now? Ketamine and 25i and beer and GHB and you can still read and type? Well okay I guess...
How do you filter vinegar out? It's a liquid, it won't get filtered out unless you make it precipitate by complexing it with something. Acetate is pretty soluble too so I really can't see how you "filtered the vingar out".
A common mistake is thinking that you can't accidentally die, and then one day you take K with benzos and alcohol and GHB and you die, even if don't vomit you can die by just stopping to breathe. It's more common with opiates, that tend to do it a lot, but it also happens on a lot of downers alone. I guess I could sample and compare it with other GHB (including bluegiraffe's GHB that you're so fond of :P) but it wouldn't be very soon. GHB doesn't make me that horny though, but still a little. I can take GHB without sex though.. And you're a girl? That's weird, I wouldn't have thought that.
And HCl is maybe the easiest chemical to get ahold of, except for salt... It's easier to get than it is to get good lye, and certainly easier than getting GBL. You can buy it on the internet.
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Nono, with ketamine I would not be on here. Please supply me with clean ket...
But then I;d just use 80mgs to trip balls but then I would not be on here. Also not with the 25i and beer and ghb. 25i has been one hour or 2 in mounth now. 3 tabs.. screen takes all sorts of colours and might become unreadable hopefully. 25i never get me into fractal land so definitely nothing compared to lsd.. but with addition of high quality 25c I liked it as an alternative to acid which it never really was.
Too bad 3 tabs do not do the trick. We did not have time drinking or using more GHB or had the desire so.
Also feel not like passing out today. But this will be the last day of my drug use.. except for ketamine if I can find some for my budget. Marcelketman seems good. But what is the difference between his $40 and $50 ones they should both be pure?
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One are probably the only one right now who notices how we should get off this forum soon...
Nono you;re wrong, benzo's and non-benzo's like zolpidem but I avoid using those when drinking steadily. Or when using only ghb. I do have tendencies of whatever and mixing them and yes once I think I could have died. Recipe: 10liters of beer, 2x10%beer, then an unknown amount, might be 25ml or 50 and it had unreacted lactone in it. Then I woke up and was amazed I did not die.
About the vinegar. Actually we did not do that. We just put our yellow 6.5ph ghb into a koffie filter and it came out liquid.. any idea? I know we start to sound really noobisch now but we will reread everything properly although nobody actually answered our recipe questions. Especially not about the ethanol.
Our GHB works. 10ml for me is 5ml for others. As is the same with everything unfortunately. I wish I had low tolerance like others and smoke 0.1grams of weed. I would last over a month with 5 grams instead of 2 days.
And every normal human being I know pukes from the amount of alcohol I can consume.
I know the risk of puking but I dont even if I want to. Yes GHB makes me think about sex all the time. Its not the sex drug for nothing, no? Pleasure for men, GHB and KAMAGRA, never heard of?
If you know how our yellow vinegar turned into solid white decend tasting GHB then let me know. Because I has no eh.. response on that. It just turned clear after filtering ok? You tell me why that is how it works and it now starts to become hard thinking consistently so finally the 25i's are working. All the talk about death now makes it depressing. But today is my final day and then I say no to drugs and still need to produce high grade GHB while loving it but stay away from it and lie about it. Alcohol you cant lie about. You can smell that miles away...
Oh so you're completely high right now? Ketamine and 25i and beer and GHB and you can still read and type? Well okay I guess...
How do you filter vinegar out? It's a liquid, it won't get filtered out unless you make it precipitate by complexing it with something. Acetate is pretty soluble too so I really can't see how you "filtered the vingar out".
A common mistake is thinking that you can't accidentally die, and then one day you take K with benzos and alcohol and GHB and you die, even if don't vomit you can die by just stopping to breathe. It's more common with opiates, that tend to do it a lot, but it also happens on a lot of downers alone. I guess I could sample and compare it with other GHB (including bluegiraffe's GHB that you're so fond of :P) but it wouldn't be very soon. GHB doesn't make me that horny though, but still a little. I can take GHB without sex though.. And you're a girl? That's weird, I wouldn't have thought that.
And HCl is maybe the easiest chemical to get ahold of, except for salt... It's easier to get than it is to get good lye, and certainly easier than getting GBL. You can buy it on the internet.
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Please supply me with clean ket...
Marcelketman seems good. But what is the difference between his $40 and $50 ones they should both be pure?
His $50 Inresa is potent but it's clumpy and kind of charged with static energy because of the baggie I think with makes it a little annoying to prepare lines but if you inject then it's no problem.. I'd recommend buying from him but he's out now and I think he won't have the $50 inresa again, only the $36 Indian ketamine. There's also K queen that has good K apparently.
I thought you took ketamine and GHB too, I guess I misunderstood, and about that filtering thing, I don't know what you filtered out. It was maybe sodium acetate if you used a pretty high amount of vinegar but that's unlikely, I don't know what it was. Maybe you had some impurity that you could filter out, but I really have no idea. It seems pretty weird though.
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I have combined ket and ghb in the past. Pretty nice combo when using medium doses of both if you can handle it. But has the potential danger on respiratory system of each doubled.
In the feedback of marcel's current ket there is feedback from somebody ordering 100grams, mixing it with water and then letting the water dissolve and ending up with just 10 grams and that person had a nice effect of 0.3grams. I do not understand why that person does that. When I had this version of his ket quite some time ago I did not have a scale or a good grinder for it. I remember wasting most of my time on a party on making insufflatable lines out of it and they were pretty big. But not smaller than charasbros ket or amsterdope's ket.
The best out of the three was the ket from cbs because it had a psychedelic twist to it. Any ideas on what sort of ket that is? It's kind of brown/yellowish unlike all the other available ket. And marcel's current ket is not a fine powder but more like small round balls...?
+ check your PM please.